I Know Who Will Go Next in Trump's Reign of Chaos

"Trump has two years to go and he wants to do it his way. Poor Katie Zachari, it's not really her fault, it's Donald Trump's fault. He picked her out of nowhere without preparation was she a lawyer, was she an attorney? What is the difference between lawyer and attorney?" No one has asked, clearly asked those questions because Trump said, "Oh yeah, look it, I like the way she looks. I like that look. Let's get her." By passing, Susie Wiles, Trump isn't charged, wants to be in charge, pretty good chance, maybe inevitable that Susie Wiles goes. She's brought her daughter into her orbit and her daughter has become a power within the White House, within the Trump circle. Someone you don't want to cross is Susie Wiles' daughter. "Joy in them. Back again." "Back again. We can't stay away." "Feel like I just saw you just minutes ago." Well you did because we were discussing live, we had an emergency podcast on the exiting after only five days of Katie Zachari, the White House press secretary. Did you consider it an emergency or a kind of, you know, a Voidville act? Oh, well I would, it can't be an emergency Voidville act. Yes, well, I mean, I think that that's part of the attractiveness of this story and why everyone is on it is because it's, it certainly, it just, it's a window into the incompetence, the stumbling, the lack of logic about the Trump administration and it is, and it's kind of funny. In the end, poor Katie Zachariah, but it is kind of funny. Well, it is, it is funny and we had a few comments from people saying why you focused on Katie Zachariah, the war in Ukraine is so much more serious, which of course it is and we talk a lot about the war in Ukraine, but it, as you say, what? But this is the, the, the, the important point, sorry, to talk over you, although I'm often delighted to talk over you, but the importantly, but the important point and the underlying point is that these are the people who are running the war in Ukraine. Exactly. Exactly. And this gives us a window into how they operate or in fact, as you would say, don't operate. They don't operate. All right, we have to remind people where are we going to be on Tuesday, two weeks ahead of the midterms. Ah, yes. We will be in Los Angeles as a matter of fact, I think we leave for Los Angeles the day after tomorrow. I am, what are we wearing? What are we wearing? I don't know. I don't know what we're going to wear. It's going to be warmer. I was in LA last week and it was delightfully warm, although it was cool in the evening. Right. And it's now, the weather has now turned in the east and I am in the Hamptons, which should has dramatically turned and it's kind of cold. Yeah. It's cold in the city. I have to get my, my, we have to get our heads back into hot weather. But we will be in Los Angeles on Tuesday night at the TeraGram ballroom and we will be doing the podcast live and tickets are available. Please come. Please come. I think that's a very good question. Does he care? You know, up to a certain point, he does, it would be easier for him if they won the midterms. He likes to, you know, any, any, any opportunity to be a winner, he will take. But if he doesn't, no, then he doesn't care. Then it's he just kind of jettison's that issue and he's on to other things. And he'll blame everybody else, he'll blame everybody. So we're going to be talking more a little bit about Katie Zachariah and the incredible luck that the Wall Street Journal had that she was on the phone doing an interview with him. She really was enjoying her press debut when there was a knock on the door and the call to go and see JD Vance and we'll explain what that was because it was actually a ruse. We're going to talk more about Elon Musk's funding of the election and just how much money he's pouring in and why it matters. I'm going to do a quick drive by on Donald Trump's strange comment about doing his own makeup and his fixation with John Ossoff and John Ossoff's makeup. As far as I can see, John Ossoff doesn't really wear makeup. The Georgia Senator doesn't really need it. It would be interesting, also interesting to touch on his debate with Mike Collins in which Ossoff just cut that guy up into the smallest pieces I've seen in recent history, recent debate history. Why did Mike Collins agree to do that? All the mics are getting chopped up. Mike Rogers up against El Sayed. El Sayed is whatever you think of him as a candidate, he's definitely a better debate than Mike Rogers. Why do these people say yes when they know this is going to happen? What about Troy Jackson in Maine burping through his debate with Susan Collins, and then when there's a protestor and Susan Collins blamed it on one of Troy Jackson's people, he goes, "Oh, shut up." Well, "Oh, shut up" is a kind of relief because that's what everybody, when you listen to a debate, what do you want to, what is in your heart, "Oh, shut up." True, very true. Alright, so we have a lot to get to Saturday morning. We're recording this on Saturday morning, and I can hear in the background the delightful sound of your children churroping as they skip around not having to go to school today. Yes, and I am afraid that that is going to be part of the podcast this morning. I think that's absolutely fine. I think people don't mind their very lenient when it comes to the sound of happy children in the background. They may not always be happy in the background, by the way. They are happy, they are happy now. Also, do you realise we never tell people who we are? You are Michael Wolfe, author of four books on Donald Trump. I am Joanna Cole's content office, so a title that you constantly deride at the Daily Beast. Here we are discussing what's going on inside Trump's head, so. And we have known each other for 25 years or more. Possibly more. Possibly more. And we've had years when we didn't speak to each other, because we were having feuds. But the feuds were always sort of bogus, I think, because you like conflict. Well, I can't remember what the feuds were about, except I remember them with some pleasure, but I don't remember what they were about. Oh, my God, you're so annoying. All right. Let's. How is Katie Zachariah feeling this morning as she wakes up from dinner with JD Vance last night, and what's inside Trump's head about her? Has he already forgotten her? Yes. He's certainly moved on. And what is she feeling? I'm sure she feels relief now at this point. I mean, Trump was actually. he actually has some understanding of these kinds of things, what this feels like, and he said to her, you know, "I told her you don't need this." Now he may or may not have told her that, but that was how he basically described her firing, her defeneration. You don't need this. And it's true. I don't think anybody does to have gone through that, to have that focus on the world on you. And it's not just even a probrium in which you can say, you know, get defensive about. It's mockery. So I'm sure she says, "Oh, my God, how did that happen? I am so glad it is finished." I wonder if she is feeling that, or if she's feeling an acute sense of humiliation and failure. To go out to the public. We cannot know that. But I think the thing is, I really think the thing, you, the happiness is the remission of pain. And when this goes away and when you can see this going away and it hasn't gone away yet, it's just, you're just, you're just in a new world. Well, there was a story in the Wall Street Journal today that chronicled her last hour there or last couple of hours there. And by happenstance, the reporter from the Wall Street Journal was on the phone with Katie, who was explaining her day and how she was planning to make friends with everybody in the press office who'd already decided they didn't like her, when there's a knock on the door. and someone says, "Oh, the vice president, you know, wants to see you." She leaves the room, at which point Donald Trump is, I think, on the helipad telling reporters, I said to her, "Do you really want this? Do you really need this? You've got four lovely children. Why do you want to do this?" Let me just add another detail to that. So, you're not going to door from someone. That's someone, which the Wall Street Journal identifies as a man by the name of Jason Miller, who has been long a kind of secret power in the White House. Jason Miller was actually meant to get that job, the press secretary job, in the first administration, and then he had a complicated personal issues. A pregnant wife, a pregnant girlfriend, that didn't work out so well. A pregnant wife and a pregnant girlfriend at the same time? Yes, you know, such things happen in politics. But he has always been one of the people in Trump's ear. And it would not be impossible for him to be the person to step into this role. Certainly someone who I would imagine will be consulted, probably actually wasn't consulted in the Katie Zachariah case, but now there will be a lot of consultation. Well, one person who was auditioning with all his jazz hands was sketching this off-friend. The man that you say will never get this job. Nevertheless, it doesn't stop him auditioning as fast as he can. And we have a clip of him from CNN last night. With credibility and authority when they stand up behind that podium because they're speaking to the whole world and the things you say at that podium can move markets and move mountains. And so that person is very, very pivotal. A lot of people you hire never see the light of day again, but that person is in the spotlight every single day. So Scott Jennings basically describing himself. I would say that that is probably. Well, I was going to say that probably hurts his chances, but I actually think he has no chances anyway. Because he's not blonde and he's not a woman. Precisely. But I guess maybe. I mean, who do you go to when you run out of blondes? Maybe Scott Jennings, I suppose. Well, it's possible that Scott Jennings could die his hair blonde. I think he's so ambitious for this job he might become a woman. Is it possible? I'm just going to say and then get implants. Yes, of course. Yeah. I mean, stranger things have happened. Stranger things have happened. So, what this does do, and for those of you who caught our emergency podcast yesterday, which once you've done it live, it's then preserved forever. So, if you care to, you can go back and watch it. And we we trod on some of this territory yesterday. But let's. And again, I would challenge emergency. It was more of a ditty live podcast. Let's jump on. Let's talk about this one. This is really. Well, I like your description of it. It's Wardfell, as Wardfell. I mean, it was it is if you if you go from from the beginning in this this transpires in a very short period of time, that the the appointment of this unlikely person, who? I mean, literally who to her being pushed out onto the behind the podium. And in the lights, obviously, her saying, "Where am I? What am I doing here? In what do I say?" And then her being kind of pulled off the stage almost with a hook. And then her fate is clearly written from that from that moment on. And then they then they then they chop her up, assassinate her. You know, and the other thing that Sean Hannity thinks she's put on Sean Hannity. And again, it's a it's a reminder Fox News does what the White House tells it to do. Fox News is an agent of the White House. And Sean Hannity was was hauled by the White House and said, you know, take her through, you know, give her what you got. And I suppose maybe if somehow if she had survived that, she grows to the occasion, maybe they would have rethought this. But it was but she didn't. And again, this was the White House using Fox News to do its bidding. I really want to talk to you about the Susie Wilds of all this Donald Trump's chief of staff. But before we do, I just wanted to look at this picture. It's a bit like it references to me that photo of all the astronauts coming off that movie. I think it's Armageddon, led by Ben Affleck. And if you see it, it should be in slow motion. But you see the four of them. You've got Natalie Harp, Walt Nort, Susie Wilds and Katie Zachariah. And you've got Katie with all the sort of bloom of excitement around her new job. She's got her lubital shoes on, which are tiny bit scuffed if you go in on the photo. But she's dressed for the role. This is just correct me if I'm this is they're on their way. Or maybe they've arrived at Alaska. Because the President Trump is going is going out to Alaska to defend Dan S. Sullivan. The double Sullivan's. Yes. How can we forget? We're right. Reminded by by the name so often because there are two of them. They're two of them for the for the Senate. So she has just come off of her disastrous news conference. And if you look at the expression of Susie Wilds here and we know that Susie Wilds was excluded from the decision to hire Zachariah, you know in Susie Wilds is expression that Katie Zachariah is not going to last. There is just something about it. You also have you have the two young women, Natalie Harp, who always wears new shoes. And I think she wears I don't know if she has many pairs of the same shoes, which is possibility. Or because she's on a salary of 150,000. So she should be able to afford more than one pair of shoes, but she always wears these nude pumps, which she wears because it elongates your leg. If you look at the difference between Katie's legs, they look shorter because they've got the black tip to them. Natalie's legs look as if they go on forever. And you've got Katie obviously scrambling because she had no notice really that she was getting the job. But she explained on Fox trying to give context to why she seems so ill-prepared at the briefing. She was like oh well you know they called me on her Thursday and she rushed back to California. It was all chaotic. I think she slapped on some fake tan there on her legs. But you see the difference between the two young women who are you know the blondes that Donald Trump wants to be surrounded with as you've made the point. And then you've got Susie Wilds in her sensible flat shoes, the woman who actually does the work. It's just a delightful contrast. And then at the same time, if we have Susie Wilds here, Iain, Katie Zachariah like you know like a snake before it's before it's bite. Susie Wilds is also on the proverbial exit tarmac. Is that a metaphor? Does that work? I think the off ramp. Thank you. Well I was trying to get the word in tarmac because these people spend a lot of time on tarmac with on the tarmac. You know you go through these pictures which they produce at a rapid rate and and it always seems like three quarters of them are on the tarmac. On the tarmac? Well she is, I mean Susie Wilds that's another big question mark. What happens to Susie Wilds? And we all in a little nod toward to Wal-Nada who has been one of the great doormats of the Trump years. And I'll remind us that he was indicted in the documents case. So he had a criminal indictment that was of course vacated as soon as Trump became the president of the United States once again. and isn't he the man that runs? around with a pair of scissors, say that if Donald Trump's hair is deemed to be slightly too long at the back, he whips out the scissors and gives it a little instant trim. Yeah, I mean, he's a body man. That's what is in in in political terminology. That's who he is, the body man. And he's very close to Trump, I mean, very close. I mean, he is close physically close all the time. I mean, he and and Natalie are kind of the double. Those are the two people always always behind him, always with him, always with scissors, if you will. Always with the scissors. And there was another photo which we discussed on Thursday with Donald Trump sitting somewhat sort of slumped. Very much an old man. You said that he reminded you the shape of him because he was sitting in Marine One, the helicopter. He reminded you of FDR and you have the two blonde ladies, Katie Zachariah and Natalie Hart, sitting facing the camera. It's a Doug Mills photo from the New York Times, beautifully framed with a military person on either side of the helicopter door. And as you said, the vision that Trump wants you to have of him, an old man with two young blondes. Well, he doesn't want you to think of him as an old man. He wants to think of him actually as a man with two, two young women, therefore he should be young, which is a misperception in this. Because, you know, you often look older when older people often look older when they are surrounded by younger people. I wonder if that's the case with me. Anyway, for another story, for another discussion. Well, perhaps we can go into that when we live on Tuesday at the terror grab all of it. At the terror grab all of it. Yeah, on October the 20th, two weeks ahead of the mid-dense. Tickets available on ticket masters. Just typing inside Trump's hat, which I did yesterday. I think the VIP tickets for the Mason Grease of all gone. Possibly not. But anyway, if you want to come and meet us, we will be avails. So we've seen the Katie Zacharias story and we've seen the Kimberly Gilfoil story. And we've seen the story of many de-fenestrated women of the Trump administration. We are waiting for a man. I think we're going to get one. But Susie Wiles is on the tarmac. What's going to happen to her? And we know it means nothing, but Donald Trump came out and said, you know, she's incredibly loyal, Susie Wiles, which has my full. We can assume, I mean, that's a dangerous sign. So if he is saying that, if he feels the need to say that, it's because she's on shaky ground. So do you think she's a scapegoat after the midterms, assuming they lose the midterms badly? You know, I think it's very possible. I mean, I think it's also possible that she's telling Donald Trump that she's, you know, she's making noises that she's going to go. If I were the chief of staff and had had two years, last two years of an administration and then losing the midterms, you know, it's a very good time to go. She's, you know, she's, as all people in the White House are always doing, she's thinking about what next? What do I get out of this? Do I write a book? Do I, you know, how do I make money? How do what's the best, what's the best place for me to be? And not what's necessarily best for the White House. So I think that's possible. And then the other possibility is that is that is that Trump has two years to go and he wants to do it his way. And the fact that he appointed Katie Zachariah and we should go back to that, Katie Zachariah, poor Katie Zachariah, it's not really her fault. It's Donald Trump's fault. He picked her out of nowhere without preparation. Was she a lawyer? Was she an attorney? What is the difference between lawyer and attorney? What are those bar exams in China like? So no one has asked, clearly asked those questions because Trump said, oh yeah, look it. I like the way she looks. I like that look. Let's get her bypassing Susie Wiles, an indication that Trump is in charge, wants to be in charge, resents anyone, the suggestion that anyone else actually might be in charge. And so yeah, I would say it's a it's a pretty good chance, maybe a fair chance, maybe and maybe inevitable that Susie Wiles goes. Did Susie Wiles like having Elon Musk in the White House when they started? He hates Elon, hates him. Go on. Another, well it's another issue. I mean, that was, you know, Susie Wiles, okay, Susie Wiles exists as long as she had because she doesn't engage in over battles. So Elon came into the White House, established effectively a parallel White House, and which she was, she understood, well she resented this and she understood the danger of this, but she also stood back from it smartly, waiting for Elon, and this is in the first months of the second administration, waiting for Elon to self-destruct, which he did. But she certainly was not aiding him in his effort to build a power base within the executive branch. She appears to have what you need in politics, which is patience, that you can see something spiraling and you just let it spiral and don't get involved. And with the knowledge that it's going to whatever implodes on itself, whatever spirals do, whatever whirlpools. Yeah, I don't, I don't, you know, I've always found her a kind of a puzzling character. You know, one of the things that people around her said is that she was wholly focused on her own portfolio, which is to say her own survival and her own image. In other words, she was not as chiefs of staff often then come to come to believe that their responsibility is the president of the United States. What he does, they are offering counsel. They see themselves somewhat as an alter ego, or somewhat as a, you know, they're the chief operating officer to the president's chief executive role. Susie Wiles never put herself in that position. It was always about, I am here, I am here to survive, I am here to, to do what I can do without, without crossing, crossing the lines over which Trump gets uncomfortable and Trump notices then you have crossed the line. So I think that's, but that's been a very interesting, interesting, chief, interesting conception of what the chief of staff role is. And I think we've discussed before. She really has seen herself more as a chief administrative officer. She makes the trains run on time. And she did work for dissenters, Rhonda Santas, the governor of Florida. And she also worked for Marco Rubio, right? Yes. I mean, Marco Rubio was a client of hers. And then she had worked, I believe in the dissentist campaign. And then they, then they had a famous falling out. And he accused her of all kinds of things. And that, that became a kind of, the Trump 2024 campaign was a kind of a revenge campaign for her against her former boss, Rhonda Santas, a very successful revenge campaign. Well, it's possible, I suppose, that she leaves after the midterms. Well, she's not going to be for the midterms because we only have a couple of weeks. But yes, it would be, I mean, just politically and career-wise, very logical, although career-wise, in one of the other virtues she's had around Trump and for keeping her job is that she's in her late 60s. She may be 70 now. And so she has never radiated someone who has her eye on bigger things, although she well may. Well, I was going to say it's possible that she wants to leave as you say after the midterms, make some money, which she'll easily be able to do, and then maybe get behind Rubio and help Rubio in his campaign, and then she might be chief of staff to two different presidents, which will be a first. And she has, I think that would be unlikely, but she's brought her daughter into her orbit and her daughter has become a kind of a power within the White House, within the Trump circle. This is Katie. Katie Wiles. Another Katie. Everybody's name Katie, apparently. Everybody's called Katie. All right, so let's talk a little bit more about Elon Musk and the sheer dollars he's bringing to this race. We know that he supported Donald Trump's 2024 campaign with 300 million. He's now pushed, and then he said he was done whether it wasn't going to put any more money into politics. So he puts 300 million dollars into the Trump campaign in 2024 and buys himself, as they say, is seeded the table, a very large seed. I mean, he becomes with that 300 million dollars, hands down the second most powerful person in the Trump White House, a second only to the president. And with a larger portfolio, then I think anyone has ever had within other than the president within the White House. So doge became the. Let's remind people that Doge was the sort of informal department of government efficiency because Elon Musk was convinced that the American government was wildly overspending, wildly out of control, and needed to be throttled by. But it gave him great power inside of every department, every agency in the executive branch. It was extraordinary. I mean, so extraordinary that it actually backfired rather quickly on him because his power came to threaten Trump's power. And also, he managed to antagonize every single cabinet secretary because he wanted access to all their data. He wanted to meddle with their policy. I mean, Scott Besson was bristling. Howard Lutnik was bristling. I mean, everybody felt he'd overreached. And also because he's so strange, he had no, you know, I think we both heard at the time that he was just sort of behaving like a crazy person out of control. Well, he had become. And Gideon. Gideon power. And effectively, he promoted himself into the job of the Uber secretary, greater than every other secretary in any other cabinet department. So anyway, it was a catastrophe and a catastrophe that still has repercussions throughout the government. He did an enormous amount of damage. So at any rate, and then he went away, he went away in a huff, you know, a famous huff. And declaring at one point, he was going to start an alternative party and God knows. But he has come back with another $300 million this time around trying to buy himself what? We don't yet know what he's trying to buy himself, but he's not spending $300 million for nothing. So. Well, much of it has gone into the Texas campaign, where, of course, he has SpaceX based and a lot of his children, right? I think a lot of his children are in Texas, but certainly he has SpaceX in Texas and Tesla had quarters in Tesla, I think. Is that right? Yes. I mean, Texas is a very big, big, that's a power center for him, which I guess he's trying to sheer up, I'm not sure I would spend all that money on, on Kenpaks, then that does not seem like a sure, a sure bet, but the race with Kenpaks, then the Democratic hopeful James Talleriko is incredibly close. So actually, huge gobs of money from Elon Musk could make a difference. They could, I mean, if Kenpaks and wins, we will, yes, then it will be a musk election. And so that kind of, I suppose, sort of makes it worth, I mean, what is $300 million to Elon Musk anyway? Nothing. It's absolutely nothing. The man has more than a trillion dollars, right? So this means nothing to him, except it would be useful if he gets all sorts of tax allowances or whatever in Texas, where he has his business. I mean, let me just, let me just, let me just, let me just point out that he doesn't really have a trillion dollars. He has, he has actually now less than a trillion dollars, because the stock is declined in his companies, and where he should try to get his money out of his companies, they would collapse. So he doesn't really have that, but he has a lot of money. My, my god, he has a lot of money. Well, he has enough money to give 300 million in the midterms, and for it not to make any difference to him whatsoever is the point. Exactly. And if that is, then if he manages, if Paxton wins, then it is a musk win. There are no question hands down. And also, Paxton very well may be the hinge to holding the Senate. So therefore, it would be Elon Musk holding the Senate. So again, a great deal of power based on a great deal of money. And it's unusual, I think it's unusual to see this amount of money, of course, there are the Edelsons, which are, who are huge donors to the Republican Party. But we're used to people spending money on themselves, trying to get elected. It's unusual to see someone spending this amount of money to get out of it. Well, actually, actually, it's unprecedented for someone to spend this amount of money. We have seen, we have seen billionaires spend significant amounts of money, but no one at this level, this is three, four or five times what we have seen from the richest sons of bitches. So we're in just this new level of political spending in which money, you know, and I mean, you see this thing that money creates its own power. And it can't be, you know, it can't be, it doesn't respond to democratic politics. You can't, you know, you're not going to, even if you defeat it, even if Ken Paxton is defeated, nevertheless, Donald Trump owes Elon Musk, owes him $300 million. And some way, Elon is going to go into extract that $300 million. Well, and we've seen, again, the power of him with star shield, his star link satellite, as it were, that is providing early warnings for Ukraine and that this week got switched off. So the Ukrainians didn't have advanced notice of incoming Russian missiles, which were phenomenally effective when they came in sweeping through residential areas and killing dozens of people. And you see the Europeans getting together and saying we have to do something about this because it's, it's clearly not right that one man, one company has so much power in a place like Ukraine. And they're, you know, I mean, it is, it is, again, this is one of those structural things that no one has quite accounted for and figure out. That happens when one man controls so many resources. And, and, you know, the musk story is a, is part of a greater story because so many other people in the last generation have become so much more wealthy than anyone has ever been in history. And it's not just one or two people, it's a whole class of people. And what do we do about this? I mean, that, that, that becomes a question actually, I, I, I assume one of the 20, 28 questions in the presidential campaign that the Democrats will, will, will, um, uh, well, that, will, which they should address their problem, of course, is they have their own set of billionaires. I suppose that's true, but the American oligarchy, as it's really developed in the same way that Putin is surrounded by his oligarchs, and Trump has been physically surrounded by them. We saw that at his inauguration for Trump too, have an enormous amount of power on social media platforms, on shopping platforms. I mean, if you think that you have, you know, Sergei Brin, one of the founders of Google, you have Elon Musk, who's got Twitter, you have Mark Zuckerberg, who's got Facebook and WhatsApp and Instagram. You realize the disproportionate amount of social media power and communication power and defense power. But having said that, the tech guys were with the Democrats the last time around. Well, the tech guys are expedient, right? They're going to go with, well, that's the problem with money, whoever has the power, and it really is not whoever has the power. It's how best to leverage their own power. But anyway, I mean, this is, this is, this is not a problem that we're going to solve this morning. Well, and James Talleriko has raised an enormous amount of money. He's raised, I think, at least $80 million at this point. So there is money pouring into Texas for him. Do you have any thoughts on his absence from the campaign trail? I mean, it was immediately seized upon by Maga as a mental health issue. There was all sorts of false reporting that he'd hold up in a mental health clinic in Ohio. Well, I have, I mean, no reason. We have no reason to believe that that's true. So no reason, no reason to even even repeat it. Well, his own campaign said he had a bad case of flu and because he's got diabetes, he was particularly impacted by it. And what I don't want to say because then it reinforces these other things is that that sounds like bullshit to me, but it does sound a little like bullshit. You know, you know, I mean, we've all had the flu. You get out there. You do what you have to do. I don't know why he didn't do daily videos. If he had flu, just saying, Hey, guys, I'm really sorry. This flu has knocked me for six. I'll be back on the campaign trail in a week. Don't worry. I'm doing everything I can to get back out there. I don't, I don't know. And again, we now reinforce the, the, the, the, the, no, I don't think we're reinforcing it. We're just saying, well, we don't know. We don't, we don't know. I mean, I let's, if we're, we don't know, we, we, we have no idea. We have no more information than that he had had the flu. So I don't know. We're just saying it's a bad, it's very bad timing to have to take a week off campaigning three weeks before the midterms. And you would hope that a candidate would be able to push through flu and carry on. But maybe he was advised by his doctor to rest. If he loses, it will be because of this that week off the campaign trail. So that's a kind of small tragedy. Interesting. Very interesting. All right. Well, there are some other specific races we were going to get into. And I'm still recovering from watching Troy Jackson burp during the debate with Susan Collins. Susan Collins definitely looks older. But Troy Jackson, we have an interview with, with Terry Moran, who spent some time with Troy Jackson tomorrow that runs on the Daily Beast channel tomorrow on YouTube and wherever else you get your podcast. And you know, Terry talks about him as being authentic, but not polished. And he wasn't sure he was polished enough to beat Susan Collins. Well, yeah. I mean, that's, that's, that's the question. You know, and the question is a, is a larger one, really the question for, for everybody in these difficult Senate races. How unpopular is Donald Trump? And, and he's going to have to be very unpopular for Susan Collins, not to be re-elected because she has been so frequently re-elected. You know, and, and I guess I'd, you know, I mean, I mean, people in, people in Maine are accustomed to voting for Susan Collins. I mean, I mean, you know, I mean, that's confusing to me because, because certainly it's a, it's certainly she is, has become a, an important piece of Trump's strength that, that while she talks about her independence from Trump, she falls into line when she has to, when she's ordered to. Well, Troy Jackson made the point that she had voted with Trump, I think 98% of the time. She said that he hadn't counted all the votes and she'd only voted with Trump 72% of the time. Nevertheless, she voted for Brett Kavanaugh, extremely unpopular among Democrats, especially because he was the deciding vote on Roe vs Wade. I, I still think she's going to win. Well, we, we will see soon enough. It's, I, I, I, if only Graham Platner hadn't had all those issues, he was just a much more compelling speaker than Troy Jackson, Troy Jackson, fifth generation logger, but unimpressive and uncharismatic, almost anti-charismatic, which might work in vain. It might work. I'll see. If only he hadn't had those issues. If only Joe Biden had been 20 years younger. If only, if only. If only the two words that haunt politics the most, right. Do you have any thoughts on Al Sayed vs. Mike Rogers? So, Abdul Al Sayed, uh, what, I mean, I don't, I mean, there's every reason to think that, uh, that Al Sayed should be unpopular. On the other hand, he's, he's very, he's a very compelling candidate. He's, he's, um, and Mike Rogers is a very, um, unimpressive candidate. So, what does that sway? I mean, who does, who then, I mean, let's, let's, I mean, I think the dynamic would be as, as follows, you have a very compelling candidate who, for most Democrats, there will be at, at least, at least some key things that they would disagree with Al Sayed about. So, how do you reconcile that? Do you say, yeah, you know, well, Donald Trump is the most important thing is to vote against Donald Trump. So, we vote for Al Sayed, even if we're holding our nose. Might, you know, it's, that's, that's a, that's a difficult one. Um, it's not impossible. And again, again, the question is, how much do we detest Donald Trump? How much do we see Donald Trump as the problem? So, any other problem, um, uh, you know, that, uh, Al Sayed's position on the following issues, which, which many Democrats can't abide, but, um, but how much stronger is Donald Trump seen as a problem, rather than Al Sayed's, um, positions on quite a long list of issues, actually. Right. Obama went into support, him too, which may have helped him. But he's certainly gone from a candidate that everybody thought he's never going to bring Michigan with him to, you know, a much, much tighter race. I have friends in Michigan who don't think it's possible for him to win. Um, well, it is possible for him to win. So whether he will win or not, we don't, we don't know, but, um, but right now that is a very, very close race. I mean, all of these, these, these races. So, so the Senate is still in, I mean, hangs in the balance, um, uh, the, the race in, in Alaska where Trump went to choose, try to support one of the Sullivan's. We don't, we don't, we don't, we don't, yes. Dan Sullivan, who is the incumbent, was forced to put his middle initial, uh, on the ballot because he's being challenged by a local teacher also called Dan Sullivan, who I think is Dan Jay Sullivan, but is running as Dan Sullivan. So the incumbent has had to add, uh, an initial to his name. Um, and, and, and he is running against Mary Patola. Um, and, um, who I, I, I think it's probably, well, again, it's one of those, and can she is very possible that she will win. Um, it is very possible that Jackson will win over Collins. It is very possible that Toleriko will win over Paxton, very possible Al-Sayed will win. over Rogers. And in Ohio, Brown over Houston, was that how you say that, guys? Pusted, I think. The one that Donald Trump was kind of drooling over this week. He had a very strange outburst about him and he was like, I was looking at him. He's great. I looked at his ass. You're like, what are you talking about? A two-year-old man, stop, stop talking like this. I mean, he was trying to zoom in on the fact that Husted is a former athlete. But nevertheless, it was peculiar. So all of these races are there and they can, it is very possible that the Democrats can win most of them. It's possible that Democrats can win all of them. And then does the world change? I guess sort of does. Well, I wonder. And if they do win, it's because everybody is united about Donald Trump. That's the singular thing that people are voting against him. But on the other hand, they could lose. There is a lot of money. This is, I mean, just look at this. If this is the Elon Musk elections, if they lose, it's partly because of Musk. Yeah, partly because of Musk. And there's also another Senate race going on in Minnesota, which seems to flip the script and actually there, largely because of the fraud in Minnesota. And because Tim Waltz has gone from being Democratic darling and the kind of guy with a hunter's jacket who was the vice president candidate saying, you know, it had his brief moment dismissing the Republicans as weird. He's now become a disadvantage for the Democrats, I think. And there's a very tight race there between the Lieutenant Governor Peggy Flanagan and a former sports commentator, Michelle Tafoya, who's pretty agile on the debate stage, actually. I mean, that well looks as if it could go towards Michelle Tafoya. I don't know if you saw any of that debate, but she's a tough agile debater. And Peggy Flanagan feels very more of same, which hasn't particularly worked in Minnesota because of all the fraud issues. And just as a little promotion, we will be live on election night. - Oh, we will. - In the studio doing, we don't know what we're going to do. Well, we're going to go inside Trump's head. We're going to be trying to figure out what you're going to be telling us what's happening with Trump on election nights. Yeah. Well, I mean, we're going to be. We're not going to have a magic wall. We're not going to be doing any of that. We're going to have a couple of drinks. In fact, you have to tell me your cocktail of choice. What will your cocktail of choice be? Is it a martini? What is your cocktail of choice? Well, I hate to say this. It is sparkling water. Sparkling water. Do you not drink at all anymore? No, I sometimes do, but not very much. Well, I know you drink at all, but I don't drink it at all. I don't drink any wine. That was the slippery slope for me. How slippery. Well, there's a full bottle, and it's got to be consumed. Okay. So no, no. So I actually do not drink wine anymore after a lifetime of pleasure. So do you not drink what is your alcohol? What do you drink? White wine? No, I don't drink anyone. Okay. So just spirit. Sometimes spirit. Sometimes I will, my wife has a scotch usually, and sometimes I'll take a sip, but it's really has been over the last number of years a retreat from I hesitate to say youth. Okay. Well, you are not going to have a cocktail ban on election night. Maybe I'll convince me. Well, I do think a tequila gimlet is very refreshing on a large rock, which keeps it cold, but doesn't dilute it too much. I've now got it down very specifically to a tequila gimlet. One will last me through the evening if you sip it slowly. Anyway, that's where we're going to be in the daily in the daily beast studio trying to figure out whether or not Elon Musk's money has distorted the election against the Democrats. He's also got the capability of pouring much more money in. Yeah, I suppose. I mean, it really is an extraordinary development in modern politics. I mean, people have been talking about the effect of money for a long time, but I don't think they ever really got to the point of talking about the effect of unlimited money. I mean, of money. I mean, money for Elon Musk at this level. It just has no meaning. So therefore, why not? The Washington Post has a list today of all the people who've donated to the ballroom. It was supposed to be a secret list, but they got hold of it and it's worth having a look through for those of you with a subscription to the Washington Post. And as we've said, the paper has got much better recently. I think one of the reasons is it's new stories have become much shorter. There's much less waffle and much less padding and just they get to the heart of it and you're out of it, but it's very noticeable. Yeah, I don't have a view on why it is better, but it is it is better. I mean, it's more exciting. It's more it's more on the job. Well, I think it's since Will Lewis, the former CEO left, actually, I was sitting next to a reporter from the Washington Post last week and he thought that was the change ingredient here. And I would imagine that probably Jeff Bezos is is is is is paying attention to the mood of the country and. Yes, well, no, I actually want to Congress. No, I actually think that he's he's probably lost interest. So he's less on the case here. It is less and it is more about, you know, yeah, you know, do what you do, do what newspapers do, do. And it is best on the Washington Post is best on what it has always been best on, which is covering Washington. And I think I think under Will Lewis, because he was afraid of what Bezos might want, although he probably didn't was unclear about what Bezos wanted, kept pulling punches on this and and the stories became, you know, just less, less crisp less crisp. Well, no one can accuse you of not being crisp, Michael. Well, I'm trying to think what to make of that. I could accuse myself. I think I've been think of this morning, this morning, I've not been as crisp as I might like to be. Well, I can always clear that up in editing. Well, it's a crisp, autumn day. We should get out there and march through the, through the leaves. Before we do, I wanted to give a shout out to David lit. David lit is a former writer for Obama. He used to write the White House correspondents speech and he posted his own version of a, um, limerick sort of limerick except it's to be subtle to the, the music, the melody of candle in the wind. And it seemed to me she briefed the room like a candle in the wind, never knowing how to read stuff without faltering. And we would have liked to have mocked her when she showed up on TV, but her tenure lasted less than one half a scaramucci. You know, I think, I think our Garfield is better than that. I think to be fair to Garfried, he did actually post a limerick, uh, after Thursday's episode and I forgot to make a note of it. So he's not been slacking at the job. Michael, I will see you in person in LA on Tuesday. We don't see each other before. Is that possible? I don't think so. I might see you at the airport. Are we on the same flight? I don't know. I need to find out. Um, at any rate, um, perhaps we will speak before. If we are, if we are on the same flight, we could do an impromptu episode of in Trump's head 36,000 feet in the air. Okay. Jesus. That might be kind of fun. I bet people would start pelting us with bread rolls. They just want to be left to their flight in peace. Yeah, it could be, um, I mean, we don't speak to a lot of trumpers, I feel, but perhaps on a, on a random flight we would. uh. We would encounter people who actually like Donald Trump. Perhaps we're going to need Votic Gods. Michael, I will see you whenever I see you, and I thought I would read Arya Manuel's book on the flight out there. You inspired me. His book, "Roll the Calls." Great. Good. I'll speak to you. Just in case he shows up, I will be able to tackle him on it. Thank you, everybody, who makes this possible, Ryan, John, Heather, Rachel, and Neil. Thank you. So the good news is we have so many Bee Beast tier members now. There are too many names to read out, and we really appreciate your support.