I Know Dark Truth About What Trump Does Next

Hellhaff no fury, like a malignant narcissist scorned. I think we're now in the third act of the tragedy, and I think we're in more danger now than we've ever been. He's going to act out in the ways that are destructive to show his power and dominance and to gain the sadistic sense of pleasure that he gets from destruction. I'm Joanna Coles, this is the Daily Beast podcast, and if, like me, you have been wondering, how is the president going to handle such a humiliating repudiation of his last two years? Well, wonder no more. We have Dr. John Gartner, the psychologist and a regular contributor to this podcast to analyse what he thinks is going on in the president's psyche and how the Democrats should best try to handle him. The eggshells they will be walking on over the next two years as the president still, we anticipate, maintains control. Where has Dr. John been? Well, he's been writing a book called A Dose of Enlightenment, a psilocybin therapy revolution in mental health care now. You can pre-order it on Amazon, but right now he's with us. He's been suffering from COVID. So we're grateful that he roused himself from his bed to be with us. And well, his prognosis is shocking. It's really shocking. So before we get into it, a quick reminder to subscribe to the Daily Beast. Like, share this podcast with your friends, your friend and his, your colleagues. Dr. John has a very strong point of view on this. Former assistant professor of psychology at Johns Hopkins and many years in practice as a clinical psychologist. This podcast is sponsored by Brodo. 11 years ago, chef Marco Canora started selling hot broth from his New York restaurant window, and I used to get it. Millions of cups later, Brodo ships nationwide so you don't have to be in New York to enjoy the chef's creation. 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Dr. John, I've been looking forward to talking to you about this because we've been trying to figure out how is it likely that Donald Trump is going to behave in the face of such a resounding, humiliating defeat. You've been analyzing him for some time now. I mean, from afar, we make it clear that you don't have Donald Trump lying on a psychiatrist couch in your office. But you are a psychologist. You've always made the point that because he's been so visible for the last 40 years, his deterioration has been in plain sight for many people to analyze. What is going on with him right now, do you think? How is he processing this humiliating defeat? You know, I don't want to take away from people's elation at this truly historic victory. In fact, I actually think this is unprecedented. 99% of the districts shifted towards the Democrats, whether the Democrat one or not, only in four districts in the whole country. Did they not shift towards the Democrats? And that's because those were like 80% Democrat districts to begin with. Like Gerald Nadler's Midtown Manhattan District. So they had, it's what we call a statistical ceiling effect. They couldn't go any higher. They were already all voting for Democrats. So essentially, if this is a movement that is so deep and so wide that it took place in virtually every demographic you can name young, old, black, white, rural, suburban, it doesn't matter. Slice up the other electorate anywhere you want, go to any congressional district you want, and Donald Trump lost. He lost support, even if he won the seat. And so that's exciting, but here's the bad news. And this is where I hate to be. I thought that might be. He lost big Lee, but here's the bad news. But here's the bad news. Hell, half no fury, like a malignant narcissist scorned. I think we're now in the third act of the tragedy. And I think we're in more danger now than we've ever been. He's going to act out in the ways that are destructive to show his power and dominance. And to gain the sadistic sense of pleasure that he gets from destruction. I have an analogy and I really want to give a trigger warning. I'm not saying that in any kind of ironic way. I mean, for anyone who's been a victim of domestic violence, you might want to turn off the sound for a few minutes. But I feel like we're at the stage where a woman who's been abused because, oh, thank God, I kicked him out of the house. I have a restraining order. I'm finally safe. And that's often the time when the really destructive abusers say, okay, now I'm going to kill the bitch. I think that he is that guy. And we are the bitch. And he doesn't care if he kills this all. You know, do you know what Hitler's last order was? The last thing he said before he killed himself. The last order he gave to Spears before he killed himself, sometimes called the Nero decree. He said, I want you to burn down all the factories in Germany. I want you to burn all the ports. I want you to destroy all the ships. I want you to destroy and burn all the farms. And Spears said, but Hitler, if I do that, all the German people will die. He said, good. You're good because all the good ones are dead already. In other words, he literally wanted to kill every single German, take every single German life down with him. That's how a malignant narcissist thinks. That's so interesting, because Mary Trump, as you know, Donald Trump's niece has always said he's such a nihilist, he will bring everything down with him. Nothing must remain if he can't be in full control. So, Dr. G, how is it best to work with someone like this? I mean, to some extent, to lesser and greater extent, I suspect most people listening or watching this podcast know someone who falls not nearly as extremely into into a personality disorder as you've analyzed Donald Trump as having with malignant narcissism. But we all know people who are very difficult to work with when they're upset. We all have family members who are difficult to work with when they're upset when they've experienced a resounding loss like this. What should those in the immediate circle around him be looking for? How do you manage the walking on the egg shells without giving into it? I have to admit, I have felt very inadequate, and like I've been quite a failure in the area of giving practical advice or even hope, because I don't think anyone can contain him. I don't think there is a strategy that will work. I think that he is going to do what he's going to do, and he's going to reap maximum chaos, maximum destruction, maximum confusion. You know, one of the things I think that we're going to be suffering through is we're so elated now that the Democrats have taken both houses of Congress. But I think he's going to be successful over the next two years at stymying, virtually every effort that they make. So they will pass 100 brilliant bills, none of which will become law, because he will veto literally everything they pass, just to stymie them, just to harm them, just so they have nothing to run on. And he doesn't care how that affects the country. Usually when you have an election where the president's one party and the Congress is the other, they have to work together, right? Because they each have things they want to accomplish for the country. And so they end up compromising, he doesn't have anything he wants to accomplish for the country. There's nothing that he wants to accomplish to help America. So they have no leverage over him. Any bill that they pass that could help America is a bill he wants to afford. That's how his psychology works. But what he'll do is even do it in a more clever way, which is, you know, he'll pretend to negotiate, and then he'll change the terms of the negotiation. I mean, I guess they'll have to pass the continuing resolution because we need a budget. And so they'll try to jam as much, you know, good legislation in there as they can. But, you know, he'll shut down the government to get rid of whatever the minimum wage or whatever things we're trying to put in that bill. He doesn't care if shutting down the government hurts the country. Look, he didn't care that his actions hurt his party, right? He could care. At no point did he ever think maybe I should change my behaviour because it's going to hurt my party. He doesn't care about his party, or his country or anyone else. Holiday travel is stressful enough without a suitcase adding to it. During the holidays your suitcase might be carrying more than usual. 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He does care about the reflecting pool and the triumphal arch. He cares about anything that he thinks will be his physical legacy. Sure. So does that give the Democrats leverage? Are they able to use those things to bargain for things they do want? Well, I think we're going to be in a position where he's going to put them in sort of an impossible position. It's like, "Oh, you want them minimum wage?" Then you're going to have to rename Washington DC Trump DC. That would be a non-negotiable. Nobody is going to go for that. But in other words, he's going to make these crazy demands for his self-aggrandizement that are going to put Democrats in this ridiculous position. Are we going to basically celebrate him in concrete on a permanent basis? Or are we going to get some legislation done? So he'll exact a very high price of humiliation from the Democrats. So if they do decide to exceed some of his demands, then he'll withdraw the deal. And then now they look stupid because they agreed to call the reflecting pool, the Trump reflecting pool, and now he's not even going to sign the bill. And so he's made fools of them, like he does with everyone around him. You know, with Rubio, with the shoes that are too big, it doesn't matter. Right? It's all part of his chaos regime. And so I think that the other way in which they will have some leverage is oversight, right? Hearings, except he's not going to honor any of the subpoenas, right? And no one is in his administration will honor the subpoenas. Oh, you want to call them, give them contempt of Congress? So what? You know, there's no sergeant of arms that brings them to jail when they get contempt of Congress. You know, there can be criminal charges, but that goes on through the courts for years. But we know that Steve Bannon went to jail. We know that Peter Navarro went to jail. I mean, people have gone to jail rather than appear before Congress. Is that a solution that you think may work? It may work for some of them, some of them it won't. But then when we finally do expose these terrible crimes and refer them to the justice department, I'll get quashed. So we'll have a 12 month hearing exposing all the criminal behavior, but nothing will happen. No one will get prosecuted, no one will get investigated, no one will go to jail. And again, it'll make the Democrats look weak. I want to say this in advance because I do not believe that the Democrats are weak. I think they're quite strong. I think they're smart. I think they do have a message. I mean, all these things people that have the Democrats, I don't think are true. They do have a message. They are united. They're not far left. They're sane and caring about governance. But he will make them look foolish because nobody can deal with this. How do you deal with it? Then he's going to try and make them look foolish. They're going to have to outmaneuver him. You've often said you've never seen a character like Donald Trump. But there must be some way to manage him. Well, you know, I do want to get back to the thing you were just talking about before all of these monuments. What kind of a leader builds monuments to themselves? You know, Emperor Titus built an arch to celebrate his destruction of Jerusalem. Napoleon created an arch to celebrate himself. Hitler wanted to build an arch like Napoleon's to celebrate himself. And now Trump wants to build an arch to celebrate himself. So I think you can see the pattern here. What kind of a leader wants to erect monuments to themselves? From a Lignit Narcissist, the problem is the monuments are the least of it. All these people that I just mentioned also conducted World War. World War in the world that they lived in. War that involved their whole worlds. I think that he is going to drop a nuclear bomb on Iran. I think this is going to happen. So I think people really need to be prepared for that he has complete control of the military. And the president has complete control of the football. He has control over the justice department. We know the Supreme Court gives him pretty much a pass on everything, but no one is going to be able to stop him. So I don't have any practical advice to offer. What about a straight jacket? I mean, this is really alarming. Doctor G, this is the most alarming analysis I've heard. I mean, it's astonishing analysis. Surely something. Surely there must be a way to it. Can't Natalie Harp do something? What if the entire safety of the Western world now depends on Natalie Harp and the blonde aide who is with him at all times? Should she have told him he, in fact, won? Would he have known that he hadn't won? Well, if it comes down to that, to quote the old 1950s instructions they gave when in the nuclear attack, you know, get under the desk and then kiss your ass goodbye. This is very alarming. I mean, it's seriously alarming. I know I take your point about the the narrow order as it's known that Hitler said he just wants to bring everything down around him. Do you think the people around him right now are sufficiently aware of how dangerous he could be? I think a lot of them are. Yeah. But they have proven themselves to be completely incapable and unwilling and then caring to be a guardrail of any kind. And that's the difference between the first administration and the second. There is no one in this administration who I believe will risk themselves to help the country to stop him in any way at any time over any issue. What about Natalie Harp, John? Natalie Harp, who we know is with him at all times. Well, Natalie Harp is a harpy. So, so you have no advice for anyone trying to contain what you see as the scorned president wreaking havoc on what he can and what's left. I don't know what would work. I think the only thing that we can hope is that the, you know, the hamburgers win before he can destroy. Before he can wreak more havoc, he may end up killing more people than Hitler. Do you think that, I mean, talk us through the physical reactions that go on in an elderly body when they've received a shock like this. I mean, such a repudiation and it's a personal repudiation too. I mean, it's the opposite of Sally Fields. They don't like it. They hate it. They really hate me. Well, you know, we've talked about this before. We have in here the really the worst possible combination because we have a malignant narcissist, which is the most destructive diagnosis a human being can have. It literally is the psychiatric definition of evil. In someone who is front of temporal dementia, the type of dementia that causes what disinhibition of aggressive impulses that is in addition to his deterioration in his language and his thinking and his psychomotor performance and his memory in addition to all those things. The leading symptom is disinhibition of aggression and we've seen this right in the way he's behaved towards reporters, you know, quiet piggy. Now it's quiet piggy every day, right? It's like that. That's all he can say. These days to reporters is some abusive right string of obscenities and and and personal attacks. He can't even answer a question even a simple question even a softball question. So we're done. dealing with someone whose basic character structure is evil and destructive, who now is losing his judgment and losing his capacity to inhibit himself even when he wants to. And so this is the kind of person who, if he were in a nursing home, we'd be giving him anti-psychotics to restrain him because he's assaulting the nurses. He's not the only sore loser that we saw this week. We also saw the meltdown of Haley Stevens who lost, you know, she was a Democratic congresswoman in Michigan. She lost her primary, the Democratic primary to Abdul Al Sayed. And then at the last minute, having said that she was going to support him at the last minute, she decided against it. And in fact, turned up next to his opponent in church on the final Sunday before the election, Mike Rogers, the very Trumpy Republican candidate. What was all that about? Was that just sore-losing? Is she also exhibiting similar symptoms to Donald Trump here? Is it dare I say could Haley also be a malignant narcissist? Well, just by coincidence, I happened to know Haley Stevens, not well, but I have spent a day with her before she got elected when I was doing some political work down in Michigan. I don't think Haley Stevens is mentally ill in any way. I honestly think what we're seeing here is the continuing, ongoing schism within the Democratic Party and within the Jewish community itself over Israel. Ever since the October attacks, there has been this massive polarization around Israel. And so look, I see it within my own family. I have family members who say they hate Donald Trump, but they voted for Donald Trump because there's Zionist. Okay? Well, I don't want upset anybody, but I'm a Zionist too. But I happen to be a dove. I want peace, but I also want Israel to continue to exist. But right now, things are so polarized, I just think it's the influence of her fiance. And I'm not saying that in any in a various way. I think that he's from a family of Holocaust survivors, and I know many people, and some people even in my own family, who have very radically right-wing views as far as Israel is concerned, in terms of they feel it's an existential crisis and they need to defend the homeland. And that doesn't necessarily make them bad people. I disagree with them, but it doesn't make them crazy. It makes them, I think, mistaken. But I think that what happened was she was influenced by her fiancee who has very right-wing Zionist views. So I don't think it's really that complicated in a way. What happened to her was shocking. And actually, I texted her to tell her, "What are you doing?" And she didn't respond, of course. But this is something I've been living with, we've been living with in the Democratic party since the October attacks and within the Jewish community. It's been extremely polarizing and it's been very effective. Mary Trump has talked about recognizing a look that Donald Trump has that was very similar to her grandfather's look, so his father, who had dementia, which set in around the age that Donald Trump is now, he's 80, he's in his ninth decade, he's clearly not as healthy as he could be. He boasts about taking enormous quantities of aspirin three times larger than the recommended amount. His feet are swollen, his hands are bruised, he falls asleep in the middle of the day. As you say, he's exhibiting increased signs of disinhibition. Do you see further signs of the president deteriorating just in the last few months? Yes, I do. I know what you mean by the look. There actually was a very stylized photo that was part of the Time magazine interview that is a very interesting interview. If you look at the verbatim transcript, it really shows some of his thought disorder. But in the picture, when you first look at it, it looks actually like very kind of at admiring almost photo, and then you look more closely and you see the look. He has a blank, confused expression on his face. The same expression we saw on Joe Biden during the debate, that deer in the headlights look. And the other thing we're seeing is other symptoms of disorientation. His wandering, you know, people with dementia, wander, and it's one of the things that can make them a danger to themselves. Well, you and I have talked about this before. We talked about when he wandered away from the prime minister of Japan, and she had to run like a half block to go retrieve him, and he wandered away from Erdogan, and he had to put his arm around Trump and guide him back to the red carpet. We've seen him wander past his limo a number of times on the tarmac. But most recently, there was some footage of him where he actually gets right up to the car to the point where it's like six inches, the open door is like six inches from his left hip. And he walks past the open door, past the beast, past the car into an open field, and he's just wandering in the open field. And you can hear the secret service agents going, what the hell's going on? Where's he going? What's he doing? And they go and retrieve him. But if you look at that footage of him wandering past his car, this is the level of disorientation we're talking about. It's when the dementia patients start wondering that the family starts saying maybe we need to put him in a home, because he's not safe. He can't be trusted not to wander into traffic. Do you think the secret service have adequate training to deal with him? I don't believe anybody has adequate training to deal with him. Dr. John Gardner, thank you so much for joining us. A gloomy diagnosis at the end of what for many has been an incredibly optimistic week. In America, Dr. John, come back and join us again. Come back and join us again. And good luck. I know you're suffering from COVID. So thank you for rousing yourself from your chair, or possibly your bed, and God's speed with your recovery. Before I go I will say one element of hope, it's a little bit of a change in topic. But as you know, I'm coming out with a book called A Dose of Enlightenment, the psilocybin therapy revolution in mental health care. I believe that that may actually be, if we survive these two years, you know, the thing about psilocybin therapy is it dissolves people's egos. It makes them more compassionate and feel more connected to fellow human beings, in a way that makes them more altruistic and less narcissistic and less materialistic and less authoritarian. All of this has been documented, I'll discuss it in my book, which is available for presale on Amazon now. It's coming out in April, but I honestly believe we are at a crossroads right now between Armageddon and the age of Aquarius. If we can, enough of us, become sufficiently enlightened, maybe we can turn this sort of death spiral around. But as things are going now, we are heading towards catastrophe, and unless something happens to make us more enlightened, I think doom is our most likely outcome. But it's not foreordained. We do have a choice, you know, it's sort of like our egos or our lives. We have a choice as to which direction we go now. So shout out to the White House chef. He's going to have to sneak some psilocybin into the president. Maybe that's the best. Maybe Natalie Harp can become his secret supplier. Dr. John, very much looking forward to reading your book, available, as you say, on Amazon for people to pre-order if they would like to, and we will look forward speaking to you again soon. All right. Well, that was a shocking diagnosis by Dr. John, but I'm confident that the incoming school of new Democrats in Congress and in Senate can figure out just how to deal with Donald Trump. And especially the 100 women now joining Congress, very exciting statistic. If you have been thank you for joining us, big thanks to our production team, Ryan Murray, John Romero, Rachel Paso, Heather Pasaro, and Neil Rosenhouse. So the good news is we have so many bee-beast tier members now, there are too many names to read out, and we really appreciate your support.