“I Have One Goal: Keep You Alive” (Steph guests on A Slight Change in Plans)

Lemonada. That's what the book is about, preventing overdose, obviously, but also how to make sense of a crisis that feels so senseless and what we need to do to stop it. If Last Day has meant something to you, I hope you'll grab a copy or listen to the audiobook narrated by me. Go to bit.ly slash lastdaybook or wherever books are sold. I can't wait for you to read it. Okay, now let's get to the show. What's it take to be a mentor with big brothers, big sisters? It takes 30 minutes and a cup of coffee, a video game, best two out of three. It takes sharing thumbs up emojis, clapping emojis, and loaded nachos at halftime. That's how you make an impact on a young kid's life. So go on, share a few hours a month, because mentorship may sound huge, but the truth is, it takes little to be big. To learn more, volunteer, or donate, go to bebignow.org. Hello, friends. This is Beth. This is your host, Stephanie Whittles-Wax. This is Last Day, but today I am bringing you a very, very special treat. Today I am dropping in the feed with an episode of A Slight Change of Plans, hosted by my dear friend, Maya Shankar. I love the show. It is very DNA-linked to Last Day. It's about these moments of change and how your life doesn't always end up the way you think it's going to end up. Maya is an extraordinary interviewer, and somehow she was able to get me to totally weep in a way that I haven't in a very long time. And we talk in really great detail about the book, Last Day, How to Stop Losing Our Loved Ones to the Opioid Crisis, in this interview, and really all the things that I know now that I wish I had known then. This book is really what I wish somebody had handed me when my brother died. My brother was struggling with a severe opioid use disorder. And anyway, I really like this conversation with Maya. So I hope you will listen and enjoy, and then you should absolutely subscribe to A Slight Change of Plans, because it is such an incredible show, and Maya's a bestie. All right, enjoy. He said, I'm addicted to OxyContin, and I've been spending $4,000 a month on pills. And I'm taking care of it, and please don't tell Mom and Dad. Stephanie Whittleswax and her little brother Harris shared everything with each other growing up. Girl problems, boy problems, friend drama, issues at school. So when Harris confessed to her as an adult that he was struggling with opioids, she assumed they'd find a way forward, just like they always had. But Harris didn't survive his addiction. And in the years after his death, Steph immersed herself in research to learn as much as she could about this disease. You know, I think everything I did wasn't what I would have done now. And I think my entire understanding of what he was going through was completely opposed to what I believe now. On today's episode, what one woman wished she knew about addiction before it took her brother's life. I'm Maya Shunker, a scientist who studies human behavior. And this is A Slight Change of Plans, a show about who we are and who we become in the face of a big change. If there is one thing I am happy to invest in, it is getting a good night's sleep. I need it. And Quince makes it easy to bring a little everyday luxury into your nighttime routine. Or maybe just find a thoughtful gift for someone on your list. I recently picked up the bamboo sheets from Quince, and I'm just so impressed. They are incredibly smooth and comfortable. And honestly, getting into bed at the end of a long day has become something I'm looking forward to even more. It's such a simple upgrade, but it makes my whole bedtime routine feel a little more luxurious. Quince prices everything 50 to 80% less than similar brands by working directly with ethical factories and cutting out the middlemen. 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It's a series of small ones. And warning teens what not to use doesn't teach them what to do instead. Helping them build healthy, ways to handle pressure gives them better options. The New Drug Talk is free, science-backed, and made to help parents start these conversations. Visit thenewdrugtalk.org. Ultra running shoes are all about space. The space to go further. To feel better. To do something you never thought possible. And this space starts with Ultra Fit. Unlike traditional running shoes, Ultra Fit gives toes more room to move naturally. So every step is strong, balanced, and comfortable. Whatever you're lacing up for, stay out there. With Ultra. Shop now at ultrarunning.com. That's A-L-T-R-A running dot com. When Harris died, he was a comedy star on the rise. He landed his first television job on the Sarah Silverman program at just 22 years old. From there, his career took off, leading him to the role he's best known for. Writer and co-writer. Executive producer on NBC's Parks and Recreation. Steph talks candidly about her complicated journey navigating her brother's addiction. She wrote a beautiful memoir called Everything is Horrible and Wonderful. And she launched a podcast called Last Day, which was recently adapted into a book. Steph tackles important misconceptions about this disease and offers real guidance for anyone who is struggling with addiction or loves someone who is. I wanted to hear about Steph's relationship with Harris when they were kids. So we started there. We were so close and together so much that my childhood doesn't take place without him. It's so intertwined with him. Harris was very quiet as a child because I spoke for him. I mean, I was his mouthpiece. I was his mouthpiece. He did everything I wanted him to do. I would dress him up like a doll. I would put him in my dresses and I would put makeup on him and put wigs on him. And we would make plays together in the living room. And my mother would record them all on a camcorder. We were just constantly performing. Harris would put a toothbrush in his butt and draw happy faces on his butt and be like doing a scene from his butt. I mean, it was we were it was. It was a silly house. It was very silly. Yeah. Unserious people. Very unserious. Were you guys from the beginning kind of best buds? Or did it take you time to be like, oh, wait, there is another person in my life. I'm a little jelly. No, we were best buds. I have a picture right when he came out of me holding him. And I was so happy. I loved him from the second I met him. How would you describe your relationship over the years? I think as we grew older, we just became closer and closer. I mean, we both went to this performing arts high school and we had overlapping friends and we all hung out together and we grew very close over the years. And then our relationship turned into real confidants, you know, like real secret keepers for each other. And the other. The other person's total nonjudgmental receptacle for all things. Yeah. Good and bad. What were the kinds of things that you would confide in each other about? I mean, everything. Girl problems, boy problems, things that were going on with friends, issues we were having in school. I mean, I would say he probably confided in me more. You know, I was the older sister. So, when we were growing up, I mean, my parents would be like, he just wants to be around you, you know? Yeah. When was the first time that you started to notice that things were a little bit off with him? Yeah. I mean, I think this is an important thing to point out, which is that Harris and I did drugs together. We both did things that we weren't supposed to do. This was a big part of our teenage. World, I think. We smoked weed. We took hallucinogens. We drank, smoked cigarettes. So, I think when Harris started using drugs more culturally as part of our relationship, it didn't flag for me. Like, I was like, yeah, you use drugs. I do, too. That is the thing that we do. You know what I mean? Yeah. But I remember this one time. One time we were in L.A., it was, like, during the time where he was, like, crushing it. He was a TV writer on Parks and Rec. He was a stand-up comedian. He was a funny guy. Everyone loved him. It was one night. We were at his house. We were staying there. I was visiting. And he was trying really hard to get some Vicodin from some dealer. And I was like, why is – it was, like, more than I understood to be. And I was like, that's weird. He seems really intense. In what way? Meaning, it felt like there was a desperation around it versus an experimental mindset? Or what differentiated that? There was just, like, an edge to it that I didn't recognize. That I felt was a little hard. You know? That was a little too… Too in need of it. Not, like, let's have fun and take a Vicodin. But, like, I need this person to text me back. Got it. When Harris was 28, he confessed to you one day that he was addicted to OxyContin. That because of back pain, he had been prescribed these drugs by his doctor and had developed this dependency. He also asked you on that phone call to keep this from your parents. Tell me about that. Well, it was three days before I got married. So it was supposed to be the happiest week of my life. And I was completely blindsided by it. I thought he was going to call me to tell me that he had broken up with his girlfriend who was going to come to the wedding. Which was annoying. Which was annoying to me in advance because of, like, the seating chart and stuff. You know? I was just like, could you just, you know, what, what, what? And he had to talk to me. And, yeah, he told me this. I felt like… How did he say it to you? He said, I'm addicted to OxyContin and I've been spending $4,000 a month on pills. And I'm taking care of it. And please don't tell mom and dad. That was basically it. But I thought he's going to get help. Someone is going to intervene who knows more than I do and help him. He's going to see a therapist. He's going to see, he's going to go to some, I don't know. I was like, I got to get married. Yeah. I was like literally like, you know, he downplayed it. He downplayed it. He was like, I've been doing this thing. I just want you to know, because if you see me, I think that's what it was. He was going to be with me and he didn't look good. He looked bad at the wedding. He didn't look like he was in good shape. His eyes were not okay. And, and I think he was just saying like, hey, I'm going through this thing. I'm, I'm dealing with it. How did you grapple with being told, but don't tell mom and dad? Oh, I mean, it was terrible. That was terrible. That was terrible. That was the worst part because shortly after I got married, I got pregnant. So then I was pregnant and carrying around this secret. I was feeling so afraid of everything at this time in my life. Maya, I had just crippling anxiety. That's the other thing. I mean, horrible, horrid, horrid, debilitating. And I couldn't share it with my parents. And that was really hard because I lived five minutes from them. He didn't, but I did. And we were very close and I was with them all the time. And, you know, at some point it. Came out. How did it come out? I told them, I said, I think I was like, Harris is a drug addict or hair. I don't Harris is. I hear you need to, you need to help him. You need to go there. Somebody needs to help him. At that point, my understanding of addiction. Also, this is really important to understand was it is a problem and there is a solution. It is a problem and we can fix it. He's not doing the right things to fix it. So if he could just sort that out and if somebody could go there and make him understand the right things to do rehab, whatever, go there, get him sorted and let's move on. How did your parents react when these words just tumbled out of your mouth? I'm assuming even post the wedding, they didn't suspect anything, even though he wasn't looking great. They probably thought he's tired. He doesn't sleep. He. He working all the time, working all the time, pitching things all the time. So busy, so busy. Yeah. His career was such a good cover for all of it. I have to say. Yeah. They were very calm. They were very measured. I think they also, you know, it's interesting because my dad being a doctor, me saying Harris is addicted to Oxycontin. My dad could rationalize that as he was prescribed these drugs, he got hooked on them. There's a physiological reason why. So I think he could understand it when it became more. I think that's when my dad became unable to understand it and that's when it became harder for us all to deal with. But at this point, the narrative was Harris is taking too much oxy. Okay, let's, let's all fix it. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. You, you write in your first book that Harris struggled enormously with fully accepting that he had a substance abuse problem. How did you feel to learn that Harris was resistant to treatment? Oh, I was just endlessly frustrated. I was endlessly frustrated. That he refused to go get help. And then at some point, my understanding of help became, you need to go to rehab. Mm hmm. But at that point, I still understood that rehab was just 30 days. Can you just go somewhere for 30 days and have somebody fix you and then come out and be cured? Like, I get that you're so important at work, but could you just go? And so the fact that he wouldn't felt just supremely fucking annoying to me. Yeah, I just was, I was so with him. I was so upset and mad at him. And that was a new sensation because I didn't tend to be frustrated and mad and resentful at him. That's not. Of course. That's not our vibe. Where do you think his resistance came from? Because he, he had been willing. It's so interesting. Like, he wasn't in denial. He had called you and said, hey, guess what, Steph? I'm addicted to OxyContin and I'm spending $4,000 a month on this. I'm going to take care of it. So he's acknowledged to you historically. Yeah. That this is somewhat of a problem. And so do you think the resistance was, I can solve this myself. I don't need other people. Was it, I'm in avoidance mode. I don't want to actually address this head on. Like, what? What was at the root of his unwillingness to get help. You know, what's so interesting about this question that you've just asked me, I haven't really asked myself this question in so long with the knowledge that I have now. And I actually think what it is, is that what people don't understand about drug use is that it feels good. It serves a very, very specific purpose. This dude was in a high stress environment. He was like working 18 hours a day, pitching concepts, pitching scripts, you know, in a writer's room. He needed to shut it down. And so drugs were serving a really good purpose for him. And at this point, they weren't really. Really impacting him. He had his great job. He had money. He had a good house. He like had lots of amazing, beautiful women like throwing themselves at him. Like he was living a really good life. So like he, so what was in his way? Like it was fine. So then what do you think led him to eventually say, yes, I'm going to go to rehab? And how much later was that? I know exactly when it was because it was very tethered to my daughter being born. So Iris was born January 21st, 2014. And when she was 24 hours old, she failed her newborn hearing screening. And I was dealing with the clusterfuck of being like, she might have this rare syndrome where she's deaf and blind. And that was what was happening. We were like living in the hospital. We had to have every test run, every genetic thing, every this ultrasound, that blood test with a newborn baby, MRI. I'm first time mom, postpartum, truly in an absolute black hole, not sleeping, nursing around the clock. Harris is spiraling. More and more in this period. And he checked himself into rehab for the first time when she was one month old. And then at the same time, like we, we had a mold infestation in our home, like mushrooms were growing out of the carpet in the baby's room. It was a cluster of a time for you. We had to move in with my parents and they lived in a tiny two bedroom apartment. And, and I really thought I was going to die. I thought I was going to die, turn to dust and be blown away. And I was so scared. I was scared of everything. I was scared that Iris was going to not be okay. I was scared that Harris was going to die. I was scared about everything. Just afraid. I was just afraid. I was like held hostage by my fear. And so I remember when Harris went to get, I was like, Oh, I felt like I could breathe. Okay. Right. One thing has been taken off of my list of worries. And now I can just worry about the mushrooms and the child. You describe being able to breathe again. And I imagine your parents felt similarly. What was it like then to get a text from him six months later saying, Hey, I've started shooting heroin. What did it feel like to read those words? You're already in hell. You've been given a short reprieve on the brother front. And now you're being thrust back into that awfulness again. Here's the thing. We had taken this trip as a family to Utah when Iris was six months old. And Harris was a wreck. He was a wreck. And I was like, this guy is on drugs. I mean, I just, I just was, I was like, wait a minute. And I hadn't seen him since the, I went to rehab and I fixed the problem. Right. And we were together for a week. I expected we were going to have this wonderful time together. Harris and Iris were going to bond so hard. He was going to be so tuned in to her. It was going to be this amazing start of their relationship as uncle and niece. And he was so out of it. He was so out of it. He was so absent. So when he texted that to me, I was like, yep, great. I'm glad that I'm not insane. And that I was right. You know, he had relapsed. And, and I was really, I was pissed. I was sad. I was worried. The other thing that happened when I got this text is that that's when my dad kind of shut, shut it down with him. My dad's ability to feel empathy for him, my dad's ability to feel like there was a solution. He basically was like, you're not my son anymore. You know, you are shooting heroin. That's not what, that's not, that's not what we, that's not what we do. That's not, what do you, I don't know. That's not, nope, I'm done. I'm out. I'm checked out. So that, that's when it began. And it became really, really dark. Your dad's perspective, I'm assuming was, look, it was one thing to be prescribed Oxy by your doctor for back pain and to get addicted to it and then try to solve the problem. But heroin? Yeah. That's just another level. Step too far. He couldn't fathom. That's not what, I don't, you, you were not, I'm done here. What did it feel like to, have to negotiate these very complex reactions to your brother's problem? Did you feel protective in that moment? Like, well, someone has, someone has to stand up for this guy. Did you share in their outrage and feelings of judgment and shame? I will say my mom, my mom was still in it with us. My dad is the one that had the real, like, I now have a stone wall. Up. And that, that's where I live now, behind this stone wall. So you guys are going to be on that side of the wall and I'm going to be over here. Yep. Yep. So that was really where he decided to be. And by decided, I mean, his heart couldn't take anything else. And so I get it. Like, that's where he needed to go. Yeah. Um, my mom and I, again, were like, okay, well, I guess at least he's going to get help. The, the text was, I'm shooting heroin. I'm on my way to another rehab in Oregon and I'm with my sponsor and I'm, and I'm fine and I'm alive. And so it wasn't like the last time where he was like, I'm addicted to this stuff. And I was like, cool, go get help. And he's like, no, I'm good. It was like, I'm addicted to this stuff and I'm on my way to rehab now. So I didn't feel like I had to jump in to be like, we have to save you now. Right. I was like, well, okay. All right. He's gonna, he's going, you know? And then, I mean, that night he and I texted a bunch and I mean, he felt so much guilt and shame and he felt terrible about it. Yeah. I remember I was like, how did you even learn to do that? You mean shoot heroin? Yeah. Yeah. And he said he like watched a YouTube video. Like, what do you mean? What do you mean? What do you mean? Like, what does that even mean? It was so hard to understand when somebody that you feel so connected to and innately close to is on a completely different plane. It's just like, how did you get there? Yeah. Right. One of the reasons, Steph, that I just devoured your book, I felt that you wrote so powerfully about what it is like to have someone you love take an action that you know intellectually is part of a disease. And yet also feels like a complete and utter personal betrayal. And a personal affront. And that there is just this double wound. I mean, they are hurting themselves and they are hurting everyone who loves them. I'm so curious to know, how did you engage with this very tricky concept of blame, of moral responsibility? in the context of addiction? At the time, I was furious with him. I blamed him. I resented him. I became angrier and angrier with him. I felt like he was not doing enough. He was not working a program. Even though I had such a narrow understanding of what that even meant, working a program, I didn't even know what it meant. I hadn't read a single book. And yet, I was like, you're not doing what you're supposed to do. And you're letting this happen to you. And you, you, you. Lots of you, you. Lots of you, you, you. Why don't you do what you have to do to get better? We have a lot of shit going on over here. I have a fucking baby. I'm dealing with her. There's a lot going on. There's a lot on my plate. I mean, it was a lot of that, like indignant, you know, like that's a really hard thing to admit to because it's like, it would be so much easier to be like, I was just like saint-like. And I like, well, I appreciate the honesty. I was not. I get that. You're so emotionally overwhelmed and exhausted. One only has so much capacity. Truly. I really empathize with that. I think, I'm glad you're being open about that. It will relieve the guilt felt by others whose loved ones are struggling with addiction and they feel so selfish when they have that response of, I just cannot take on more. And here's the thing. I always like to paint this picture because Harris's addiction was hitting like a real fever pitch around the holidays. And this was going to be my baby's first Thanksgiving, her first Christmas. I needed things to be good. I needed us to be together. I needed us to have fun. God damn it. We'd had a really hard, rocky road with the newborn, you know. So when the holidays started coming and he kept canceling his flight and he didn't come to Thanksgiving and he was supposed to fly home here and he was supposed to fly home there. And he kept letting me down, letting us down, not showing up because of his fucking addiction. And I was like, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. But the night he finally did come home right before Christmas, December 2014, I walked in and I saw him and I understood finally and saw with my eyeballs what a person going through withdrawal, what a person going through severe opioid withdrawal looked like. It was the first time where I was like, holy shit, he is sick. He's not doing anything to me. He has a debilitating physical illness. What is wrong with me that I have been pissed at him? He's not well. It was like I needed to see it. It was a real turning point. We'll be back in a moment with a slight change of plans. Hey, it's Julia Louis-Dreyfus from the Wiser Than Me podcast, among other things, and I've got a little holiday wisdom for you. Hosting during the holidays means lots of cooking, and that means your trash is going to be full of smelly, rotting food. Yuck. So here's the wisdom. Get a mill food recycler. I did. We've had ours for years, and it has totally, totally transformed our kitchen. It's unbelievable how much less waste and less odor there is now. Plus, it's so easy to use. You toss in basically any food you don't eat, peels, pits, meat, dairy, bones. Last year, we put in a whole turkey carcass, really. While you sleep, mill automatically dries and grinds all your food waste down to about a fifth of its size. That means at night, you can fill it after a big, elaborate dinner, and by morning, there'll be room for breakfast. Nothing rots, nothing stinks, no fruit flies. And my favorite part? Using mill means none of our food ends up in landfills, which means we're doing a little good for the planet while keeping our kitchen tidy. If you want to manage your food waste in a cleaner, calmer way this holiday season, go to mill.com slash wiser for an exclusive offer. That's mill.com slash wiser. Happy hosting. A better health bet. I would like to formally request more storage space in my brain, because somehow I can forget why I opened my laptop, where I put my keys, or the name of someone I met 30 seconds ago, but I can remember an awkward conversation from six years ago in extraordinary detail. So if your brain came with a delete button, what would you use it on? Maybe it's that tough breakup you've analyzed from every possible angle, an irrational worry, you know doesn't deserve this much attention, the conversation with your boss you keep rehearsing in the shower, or that one comment someone made that you're still thinking about weeks later. We don't always get to choose what sticks around in our heads. BetterHelp is an online platform that gives you space to talk about what's taking up too much of yours. BetterHelp is now in network with more than 125 health plans, with many co-pays as low as $15 for eligible members. Visit betterhelp.com. Cost and coverage may vary. The space to go further, to feel better, to do something you never thought possible. And this space starts with UltraFit. Unlike traditional running shoes, UltraFit gives toes more room to move naturally, so every step is strong, balanced, and comfortable. Whatever you're lacing up for, stay out there with Ultra. That's A-L-T-R-U-N-I-N-G dot com. Steph could not shake the image of Harris in opioid withdrawal. He was sweating, and shivering, and in agonizing pain. Seeing him this way changed how Steph saw his addiction. And her fury started to give way to another feeling, fear. Well, then I became worried that he was going to die from withdrawal, for real. I thought he was going to, I, I, then it was like, you need to go to detox under medical supervision because your body can't sustain what it is, what it is going through. So then it became, Harris, I don't even need you to go to rehab. Can you go to the hospital? To detox under a doctor's supervision, because I'm very worried that your body is going to die. Yeah, yeah. That is how bad it was. It all of a sudden felt very life and death, in a way that it figuratively felt life and death. But then when I saw it, I was like, this could actually be literally life and death. That was the switch. It was like, holy shit, alert, alert, red alarm. Like, this is, this is, this is real. He's not just being a dick, you know, like, right. It slapped me in the face. And I, the urgency became really intense. And I, and I just felt my empathy, my anger melted. It was like I was ice, and then it just melted all of a sudden. And all of my personal feelings of indignation and resentment, and you ruined Christmas was out the window. And, and then, then I think I remember, even like, the morning after this terrible night, where I saw him, he had written me a check for Iris to get a new pair of hearing aids. And the note was just like, I love you. And I'm, I'm sorry. And I'm here. And this is for you. And, you know, still in the midst of all of this thinking of her and us, you know, I mean, he's a great guy. It's just there was a lot of this stuff that was happening. You know, and then he died so shortly after that. Harris died of a heroin overdose, just a few days later. A few months after this Christmas, in February 2015. What was it like to get that phone call? It's one of those moments that doesn't even, when I look back on it, I don't, I don't understand how I survived it. It doesn't seem like something that actually happened to me. It seems like a movie that I, I can't, I can't even begin to explain it. I was at the here and there. therapist. And she got this amazing report card. Mike and I were just glowing. And I went to the bathroom after the appointment and was changing her diaper. And the phone rang in unknown LA area code. And I just pressed ignore and kept doing the diaper. And then it rang again. And that was when I was like, I have to pick this up. It was really out of body experience. The detective told me that he was dead and that he had overdosed. And it was wild. I mean, he had just been cast in Master of None. He was writing on the show and he had been cast. And he was going to move to New York the following week to start shooting the show and had the Airbnb on his laptop open, you know, that he had booked and everything. So it's not like, I think people misunderstand. They're like, oh, he tried to kill himself. No, he didn't. He was, about to go to New York and do the thing he really wanted to do. Mostly, which was act. He was about to get this huge opportunity. And I think it was going to be a really big career shifting role for him and moment for him. It was a really exciting moment. And as I've learned more and more about drug use, people don't just use drugs when things are bad. People use drugs to celebrate. They use drugs when they're happy. And, you know, he had been in rehab again and he had gone into a sober living facility and checked himself out. I had no idea, you know, and did standup comedy and came home and used and overdosed. My mom was at a movie with some of her girlfriends and her phone was off and my dad was at work and I had to drive over to their building and tell them that their son had died. And my mom was texting me pictures of her dinner. She was at a sushi restaurant. She's like, isn't this beautiful presentation? And I was just like, oh my God, fuck. Like, man, you're just having the last good day you're ever going to have. I'm about to destroy you forever, you know? It sucked. I do not recommend. It was a terrible, terrible experience. It was awful. Yeah. I mean, you know, you have a whole show about this that I'm on right now, but there was a before and after moment. And that was like where every single thing from then on became defined by after this fateful, horrible moment. Um, that changed all of our lives. You write about the feeling of powerlessness really beautifully. And there's an inherent powerlessness involved in loving anyone with addiction. As your friend, I know that you are a go-getter personality, right? You like being in control. You achieve your goals. You problem solve on a daily basis. You're a go-getter. You're a go-getter. You're a go-getter. You're a go-getter. You're a go-getter. You're a go-getter. You're a go-getter. You're a go-getter. How did you, how did you reckon with the fact that the normal recipe that you'd been using to get through life and to solve hard problems was no longer available to you in this context? I think this is where the Iris Harris of it all happening at the same time was really significant for me as a person. They're very linked, both of these events. Iris was born with this permanent disability. There was nothing I could do to change it. It just was what it was. There was no explanation for it. No one to this day has ever offered me an explanation for it. It just, it was. And Harris having this addiction and me not being able to help him in any way or prevent this in any way. I think I mentioned, I, I had this horrible anxiety about all the bad things that were going to happen and it was debilitating for me. The more bad things that happened, the more my sense of power was eviscerated. And I had to literally be like, I can't control anything. Like actually the world is chaos. I am, I'm not in the driver's seat. I'm not in the driver's seat at all. I have been worried and worried and worried and worried about all these terrible things that are going to happen and they're happening. And I'm still alive. It was like a very intense spiritual personal shift where I, I mean, the way I describe it as like my whole house got blown up and bombed and I was like, I'm not in the driver's seat. I'm not in the driver's seat. I was just like laying there in rubble. And I was exposed to the elements and sitting on rusted nails. And at some point I was like, I guess I'm going to have to rebuild this house because it's uncomfortable to sit on rusted nails and I can't sleep here. And where do I want to build this house? Yeah. You know what? Actually I hated that other house, the stairs being there, they were ugly and I didn't like that paint color. So let me actually like do whatever the fuck I want to do now because I can worry all day long and it will never change the outcome of a fucking thing. What a freeing experience to have that knowledge. And I feel like you Maya can relate to what I am saying so much. And I, in this phase, my brother and my daughter gave me the gift of that lesson. And I like changed my whole life after this. Everything that I did before changed and I never would have had the courage to do anything that I'm doing now. I would have been too afraid of failing, of it not working. But once your whole life gets shattered and your favorite person dies, you're like, what's the worst thing that happens? Like the company doesn't succeed. I don't care about that. Who gives a shit? That's not the worst thing that can happen. Like I already lived through that. So when you say powerlessness, I have grappled very much with this and it's very tied into the journey of this story. Yeah. Like me surrendering to everything. The first section of your new book, Last Day, is titled What We Got Wrong. What did you mean by this and why start the book that way? Because all the things we just talked about, all the, you need to get help, you need to do this, you need to do that. Here's the way. It ain't it. This is a disease. We need to treat it that way. Let's reframe. You are not a failure who is fucking up our lives and a bad person with zero willpower. That is not who you are. You are a failure. You are a failure. You are a failure. Person who has a disease, it is called a substance use disorder. And I'm going to treat you as such. We're going to treat you like somebody with cancer. We're going to treat it the same way. Yeah. And that's what I mean by what we got wrong, because that was not my understanding when my brother was struggling. I was like, you're being a selfish asshole. So then share, Steph, do some myth busting with me. What are some of the surprising things that you've learned about addiction and treatment? Let's do it. Here we go. One, the 30 day rehab myth must be eradicated from our collective vocabularies and lists of things that our loved ones need to do. It's not 30 days and then you're fixed. It's five years. All the addiction medicine doctors I spoke to for the book, until a patient gets to five years in remission, they don't fall to that of the general population in terms of their risk level. Five years, if you want to know what that is in days, it's 1,825 days. So that's more than 30. I'm not a mathematician, but that's a big one. So that's one. Two, medication for opioid use disorder is not substituting one drug for another. So if you are prescribed suboxone or buprenorphine or Vivitrol or something from your doctor that is some sort of opioid blocker, that is like any other medication you would take. I have to take thyroid medication. I have always, I will always. How dare you? Just man up. Exactly. And that's the thing, right? How dumb is that? How stupid does that sound? That's what I'm saying. That's why we have to reframe this. It's really helpful, I think, to think about it like a disease because we know what to do about disease in this country. Modern medicine is great. I'm so all about it. So anyway, that's one. and medication, yay. that relapse is part of disease think about asthma okay if you are somebody that has asthma you're not going to be cured from asthma and then never have an asthma attack again right like again the disease framework is you will have some kind of recurrence of that disease and you need to carry your inhaler in the same way you should carry narcan you should tell people if you're going to be using opioids so they can help you and revive you if that's something that needs to happen my daughter who's 12 carries narcan in her backpack and I have narcan in my glove compartment like the education that we got abstinence only and drugs are bad it's not helpful it just stigmatizes it more this framing is so helpful because I'm imagining everyone listening who knows someone who has been diagnosed with cancer and is there any judgment at all if there is a relapse of the cancer of course not and so it is a compassionate framing that really serves everyone it is mutually beneficial for both the person suffering and for their loved ones to adopt this view exactly and once you see it this way you can't unsee it yeah um when I think about segmenting the population of people affected by addiction there's at least three subsets right there there are the people who suffer from addiction and then there are the people who suffer from addiction and then there are the people who suffer from addiction and there are the people who love an addict and there are people who regardless of their personal relationship with addiction just care about the issue and want to do something about it so let's go through some recommendations you would give to each of these groups so for the first group so someone who's currently struggling with addiction themselves what's something or some things that you would want them to know I would want them to know that there are resources available to make drug use accessible to people who suffer from addiction as safe as it possibly can be learn as much as you can about harm reduction as a strategy as a tool I would get on some sort of medication for opioid use disorder I would create some sort of relationship with an addiction medicine doctor who you trust I would get under the sort of longitudinal care of a provider that can help you manage your disease and if you're not there yet if you don't want to manage your disease and you want to use drugs and that's working for you right now I would get on some sort of medication for opioid use disorder I would create some sort of relationship with an addiction medicine doctor who can help you manage your disease and if you're not there yet stay safe test your drugs make sure they're not contaminated make sure you use Narcan make sure that you're using with somebody else if you're going to use alone call an overdose prevention hotline do things to keep yourself safe that's what I would say to that person in addition to carrying around Narcan what advice would you have for those who care for someone who is struggling with addiction yep I want to also point out you cannot Narcan yourself so that's a really important point that I want to make if you are in a position to need Narcan that means you are passed out you are not breathing so somebody has to administer it for you so it's like if you have a history of addiction tell your roommates tell your loved ones have a supply in your house yeah exactly you would have an EpiPen yep you would have any kind of reversal agent you know I mean band-aids burn pads whatever like you would have any kind of reversal agent you know I mean band-aids burn pads whatever like have Narcan in your home what do you say to critics who are basically saying look Narcan it's a band-aid it's preventing the hard work from happening it's licensing drug use because we know there's now this fail-safe option yeah I mean I talked to this woman Jessie B Jessie Blanchard from Georgia I love her so much she is the biggest literally she's the most prolific Narcan in the state of Georgia and she does her little jeep and drives all around and does it herself but she she has a daughter KB and Kaylin um overdosed 13 times in total and they ended up getting in a fight in a Krispy Kreme parking lot and Kaylin said you know mama what do you want from me and and Jessie just exploded and was like if you could just not die that would be great just please don't die and that frame I have one goal and that is to keep you alive that train of thought you just said it's enabling it's this it's that okay fine maybe do you want them to be dead what I don't what is the alternative I mean it's foolish it's like do you not wear a seatbelt do you not wear a helmet do you not wear a condom Jessie's like we do harm reduction every day we do we do it every day there are socially accepted forms of harm reduction and then there's not I would also tell a loved one get yourself into some sort of um treatment program yourself you know what does that look like well I think it could look like anything from Al-Anon to a therapist to the invitation to change training to any sort of resources you can provide yourself with to not be personally triggered by what your loved one is doing right and to be able to communicate with them it's like anything with good communication I think you have to practice it and when somebody is doing something that you deem to be dangerous and horrible for them you're gonna get into a space where you're gonna be like why the you know why are you doing x y and z and it just raises tensions and makes it worse so I would just clean up your side of the street what about that final bucket so people who just want to help with this crisis that we're facing what can they do I think it starts with your own communities I think like anything in the world it can feel really big to try to change something from a policy level I learned from my favorite mayor mayor Savante Myrick if we change the narratives and the stories that people tell then we can influence and impact the laws but those are so so far down get your school district to have Narcan on hand have somebody come in to teach the kids about that you know figure out who your local harm reduction agency is figure out they always need resources they always need money they're not getting government money and funding so that's a good place to start um you know when you are going to the ballot box if you're voting for somebody who's like electing to slash Medicare that's a lot of a lot of addiction treatment dollars so any politician that says they care about the opioids crisis but then they take away benefits for people they don't actually um but I think I think the biggest thing is just educate yourself just learn more about it it's changed my whole brain my whole outlook on life has been rewired from from doing this whole project and learning so much about this you know were there decisions that Harris made that you were unable to make any sense of at the time but that now make more sense to you because you've talked to all of these experts about the nature of addiction and have written this book yeah I mean I think there's a million of them when he told me he was being prescribed suboxone and I had like a I bristled at it and I was like why are you replacing one drug for another like I I wish I wouldn't have done that I I I I see why he didn't want to go to treatment I see why he didn't want to take his vivitrol because why would he want to block the effects of opioids the effects of opioids provided something really nice for him I see I see a lot of it very differently and again I I do not think when I was in the thick of it that I would have been able to have such a charitable read I think it's really hard when you are in it so like I I understand and when you love someone and they're doing something that you deem harmful that is harmful you want them to stop and there's a lot of emotion involved in that um which is why I wish I would have done more of cleaning up my side of the street I would have gone to the training when he was alive I wish I would have learned how to talk to someone who was struggling with addiction I wish I would have the right words I think everything I did wasn't wasn't what I would have done now and I think my entire understanding of what he was going through was completely opposed to what I believe now I remember you're telling me Maya I literally blacked out that entire period of my life when I was writing the first book like I have no memories of it I just went into like a cave and I wrote the book and it just it was just like word vomit mm-hmm what is it meant to you to revisit the loss of Harris through this new window right less less out of this desperate need to to scream into the proverbial pillow about his death but instead to contextualize it in the broader context of addiction and to distill lessons from that it was wildly different for a bunch of reasons I feel um like the journey of the first book to the second book is such a journey of my process through it all you know I had to kind of go through that intense grief and darkness stare it right in the face to be able to like make sense of it and the fact that i can make sense of it now and i can help other people who are in this darkness i'm i'm all about that it yeah i just i have endless love and empathy and compassion for anyone who is on any side of this issue it's so so hard i just want to give you a hug it feels like you're you're you're the only person who's ever lived it and and that is just a terrible feeling to be a an emotional island and you're not an emotional island i am here to help you there are many people who are here to help you wherever you are in this in this cluster of things and i know it's really overwhelming and i know it's really really scary but there's so much information and there's so many resources in the world and i know it's really really scary but there's so much information and there's so much knowledge and and it's going to be okay it's going to be okay hey thank you so much for listening if you or someone you love is struggling with addiction or you'd just like to learn more about the topic resources are available at findsupport.gov we've also included a link to steph's latest book last day in the show notes and a quick personal recommendation i just finished reading patrick rattenkeef's remarkable book empire of pain which chronicles the sackler family's responsibility in fueling the opioid epidemic i was absolutely blown away by the brilliant reporting if this episode resonated with you be sure to check out my conversation with singer-songwriter jason isbell about his journey to sobriety you can find a link to that in the show notes as well all right we'll be back soon with another episode of a slight change of plans i'll see you then you a slight change of plans is created written and executive produced by me maya shunker the slight change family includes our showrunner alexander garriton our editor daphne chen our lead producer megan lubin our associate producer sonia gerwitt and our sound engineer erica huang louise gara wrote our delightful theme song and ginger smith helped arrange the vocals a slight change of plans is a production of pushkin industries so big thanks to everyone there there and of course a very special thanks to jimmy lee hey it's steph steph real quick before you go i want to share an excerpt from my new book last day how to stop losing our loved ones to the opioid crisis it tells the story of losing my brother harris the journey to creating this podcast and the conversations that have helped so many of us understand addiction recovery and what it takes to prevent overdose so please enjoy this sneak peek into what you'll get when you pick up a copy or listen to the audiobook narrated by me we hear about the opioid crisis so often that we've become desensitized to it it's a headline a political pawn a collection of tally marks that stand where our loved ones should be overdose deaths in the united states can be broken into three phases doctor prescribed oxycontin starting in the 1990s heroin taking hold in 2010 and fentanyl which surfaced in 2013 and spread like wildfire in 2016 the sacklers who owned the pharmaceutical company that developed produced and aggressively marketed oxycontin may have lit the match but our broken system allowed it to burn since 1999 this preventable tragedy has claimed more than 800 000 lives my little brother was one of them thanks for listening get your copy of last day at bit.ly slash last day book or wherever books are audiobooks are sold choice hotels get you more of what you value here's a little tune to help you remember same drive different day don't you wish you were getting away pack your bags and come on through texas ohio alaska we're up there too comfort in it's calling your name save on the stain oh and free waffles are yours to claim well i hope you like my little song book direct at choice hotel ♪ Brails.com ♪