Speaker 1Nothing added up. But so then after I got arrested, it was two and a half years on house arrest and really coming to terms with how, like, my substances had got me there. I mean, everything else was kind of a surprise, but I knew that I had to address something. Like, it was like, come on. Like, I'm not blaming this guy. I'm not blaming the system. I blamed him for a bit. I was mad.
Speaker 2Sure, yeah.
Speaker 1But then I was like, no one's going to fix this but you. And it was really fucking annoying just sitting in emotional anguish for a year and a half because that wasn't me. So that was, like weed, it was taking away my personality being in that state.
Speaker 3Yeah, they always say resentment is like drinking poison and hoping the other person dies, right? Hi there. Welcome back or welcome to Recovering Out Loud podcast, the show where we get real about mental health and addiction. I'm so glad you're here. If you or someone you love is struggling with drugs or alcohol, please reach out for help. Send me a message on all social media platforms at recoveringoutloudpod. Or by email at recoveringoutloudpod at gmail.com. You are no longer alone. What motivated me to start the podcast? You know, I actually love when people ask me questions. Okay. They come on here because, you know, you have to do a lot of listening when you start up. So I learned something. If you like talking, don't start a podcast because it's all about listening, right? I love to talk. So I've learned to really listen through this journey and like really pay attention to, I don't know, I guess feelings and what people are talking about and how I can relate because your story, as we'll find out, is clearly a lot different than mine. But I guarantee you, you're going to say things today that I'm like, oh yeah, like I get that. I get that feeling. I get that. Like that makes sense. To me, right? And centered around, you know, consequences and drugs and the consequences of drugs and the consequences of my actions and stuff like that, right?
Speaker 1On drugs. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3And I always, you know, I will answer your question. I promise. But I like to talk. I always say this is like someone, you know, when someone ever says to me like, man, it's not fair, you know, like it's not fair. Life's not fair. I had a counselor once say to me, if life was fair, we would all be dead or in jail. We would all be in jail, right? Like right now. And it's true because my actions, like if you look at my life on paper, I should have been dead many times. I should have been in jail many times, but I don't know why for some reason I managed to today get through that without the consequences like that. Tomorrow, if I pick up, I don't know. I don't know what will happen. I'll probably end up somewhere else. So to answer your question, what started me? I was in treatment this last time in January, third time in treatment. And I was, again, on my knees, like just drugs had brought me and myself had brought me to a place where I was like, how the fuck did I get here? Yeah. How did I, like, how did I get here? I had eight years clean and sober, almost eight years. And I chose to take my will back and do things my way. And, you know, ADHD medication is the one thing that I can control. Like that was my thought pattern, right? Like I'm going to do this differently. I'm going to fix this. I'm going to fix it. And I'm going to do it properly this time. I'm going to take it as prescribed. And we probably, we both know how that ends up. Like, no. And then before I know it, I'm doing new drugs. I'm doing benzos. I'm smoking meth, doing all these things. So I'm in treatment this last time. And there's this guy in there. I love him to death, Will. He had a podcast and he's talking about how much he loves it. And I'm like, man, I've always wanted to do that. And he's like, do it like straight, like didn't even fuck around. He's like, you should do it. And that gave me a little bit of hope because we would watch his on YouTube. And I was like, man, like I could do this, right? Yeah. I love. Well, I love talking. I thought that it was going to be about that, but I also love hearing people's stories. And I love podcasts. Like I really love podcasts. I listen to them every single day.
Speaker 1You have a good podcast voice too. Thanks.
Speaker 3You have to get over that first, like same with social media, but you have to get over the initial, like cringiness of your own voice, right? And then you notice it's like.
Speaker 1Oh, I know. I recorded two songs in prison. Like I wrote and recorded two songs as part of the music program.
Speaker 3What kind of music?
Speaker 1It was just like pop songs. Like one of them was like a ballad. Like when they did this whole music program, they had a professional come in and teach you how to do music. And then I like listened to my songs. I was like, oh, you get like the ick.
Speaker 3And then you're like, never again, right? Oh man. I'm going to ask you something, Emily. Thank you for coming down, by the way. I appreciate it. Welcome to Recovering Out Loud. If you, if, if somebody could get, what do you want people to get out of your story? Like what, what do you hope that people get out of your story?
Speaker 1That anyone can come back from any horrible situation in their life if they just take ownership of it. So many times people just want to take the victim mentality and blame everyone else. And yeah, you know, I did that in the beginning, but that doesn't get you very far at all. So you don't have to go to prison to necessarily make a comeback and you're going to have to make more than one comeback in your life. I'm just like waiting for my next thing. But like, at least I know that I have now, I have the tools and the skillset to be able to kind of get out of that. Even if it takes a long time, you know, we go through things every year, almost every week that are hard to get out of. But it's like, you kind of build a foundation of like knowing how to get out of it. And sometimes you can't rush a comeback. It takes time. It takes time, right?
Speaker 3There's like resilience, right? Yeah. So I don't like that word. No? Why?
Speaker 1I don't know. I just feel like it's so, I guess I don't have a word. Buzzword? Yeah.
Speaker 3Okay, okay.
Speaker 1I just feel like rah, rah, rah for me.
Speaker 3Like healing or, I'm trying to think.
Speaker 1Just cutting the bullshit. Yeah, yeah. Cutting the bullshit. Own your shit, cut the bullshit, own your shit and move on and try to help others at the same time. And I guess that's kind of like how you build resiliency. It's not just, it's a great word for like a lot of people. It's just not a word for me. So.
Speaker 3I totally understand. I want to talk about like, what was your childhood like? Do you want to talk about a little bit about what growing up was like in your house and your experiences?
Speaker 1I had a bowl cut, so yeah.
Speaker 3Great start.
Speaker 190s, 90s bowl cut, yeah. Honestly, great, great parents. Two, I was a middle child of three daughters. We were all three years apart. Pretty close family. You know, we did all the normal things. Went to church. Church was part of our life. Although I didn't behave very well in church. My dad had to incentivize us with Timbits for good behavior. I started learning more about the lessons of church like when I was like a little bit older, but we did all that. I was in like a lot of clubs, played a lot of sports because I had a lot of energy and I was always a learner. And then elementary school is kind of where like people started being mean to me. And so I kind of just became an introvert. I mean, everyone goes like, you can't be like, oh, I was bullied. That's why I went to prison. No, like that's crap. So like everyone goes through shitty experiences as a child. A child is, childhood is just childhood. You know, some like, I guess for me becoming an introvert and like, and then also not knowing how to socialize kind of led to my drug use though, for sure. Cause I didn't know how to talk. So in high school I was like, well, I'm just going to get a Colt 45, two zigzags.
Speaker 3Baby, that's all I need. Oh man. So what, what do you think that like, do you want to explain a little bit more about what the alcohol and drugs did for you in the beginning?
Speaker 1In the beginning, it was the key to socialization. The key to meeting people. I was pretty shy, you know, and I did feel like kind of a bit of an outcast. And then the, like kind of the, I did a lot of heavy, well, grade nine, I wouldn't say I did heavy drugs. I smoked weed. I didn't even like weed.
Speaker 3I don't know why I smoked it. Same.
Speaker 1I was like, what am I doing? I'm like greening out at school. And it didn't, it made me like the opposite of like what I wanted to be. Like it just made me more awkward. Yeah.
Speaker 3I never liked weed and I never heard it said, said this, but it's so true said like this. Like I always hated weed because it like took away my personality completely. Yeah. And I was like, yes, that was me too, right?
Speaker 1Yeah. Whereas alcohol, it brought it out a little bit more and then cocaine just helped me stay out like a little bit later. And MDMA, I really liked in high school, but then I was like obviously acting out and my parents were sick of it. I was, I went from like being a really nice kid, you know, I was very friendly. I was really happy. I was always planting trees and like volunteer, like, you know, just generally happy. But then it was kind of those troubling years and later, later on, on an elementary school and then high school that I know some would say is pretty normal teenage things, but obviously I took it a bit too far.
Speaker 3Yeah. And so like what happened? What was the moment where it, it went too far and, and you kind of needed to make a change or realize that it wasn't working for you anymore?
Speaker 1Well, I knew that in high school, I had this little tactic. It was called strategic procrastination. So I knew that.
Speaker 3Go on. I love this.
Speaker 1So I knew that if I, even if I didn't do it, even if I got like crap grades in grade nine and 10, as long as I got good grades in grade 11 and 12, I could get into university. And so I knew that when I want to turn it off, I could turn it off and turn it back on again. And that's exactly what I did. I got into the university of Guelph. I might do, I want to go in for business. My, my math grades weren't good enough because I didn't want to take calculus. Like it was hard. I just didn't want to take it. I was like, screw it. And then I couldn't get it. I also loved like nutrition and stuff. Cause I was always into like exercise and fitness and all that. But then my chemistry wasn't good enough. Despite the fact that I had to go to college, I had this like really nerdy guy that I got to do my homework. I still do.
Speaker 3Classic. Sounds like mean girls.
Speaker 1He's actually really, really nice. So I ran into him like on the bus, like a couple of years ago. And I was like, ah. Thanks for doing all my homework. Yeah. It was great. It was very nice. Dissecting pigs and all that stuff. Oh no. I think it was biology. That was grade 11. That was different class. I remember that. But yeah. So then in grade 11, grade 12, I just got my grades up, went to university. So I think the turning point number one, One for me was actually university when I got a DUI like I was drinking driving I couldn't figure out how to stop I didn't know why I couldn't stop and I deliberately drank and drove in front of like a police officer so that I get pulled over so I could stop it's like I sabotage myself I'm getting goosebumps as you
Speaker 3say that sorry to cut you off but like it's it's all because that happened to me too with benzos where I would do benzos get in the car and then I would go to my parents house for no reason and I today I see it as like a subtle cry for help kind of subconsciously right it's like although I didn't really want to go and get help my body and my my soul maybe I don't know was like help me right but I don't know how to ask for help yeah so if you show up at your parents house high on benzos that's a good way to show that you're hurting yeah my dad tells me I repeated the same story like six times and my words like this yeah and uh so yeah that was that was my thought
Speaker 1on it anyways yeah sorry oh no that's interesting you got to talk too you know yeah it's about you
Speaker 3but yeah so you you purposely were crying for help maybe yeah and what happened after that because I
Speaker 1knew that like I knew that it was wrong and it was bad but I still once that booze kicked in I couldn't stop and so I was like what is it going to take me to get caught because I knew that it was selfish but I was still doing like these things for god knows what reason like I don't know like I just could not it's because I had this my parents car so I thought it was going to be cool driving around like I don't know like anyway so I did the back on track program and luckily I got caught in the best way ever you know I got pulled over pled guilty no one got hurt and like but why I chose that tactic when it could have been way worse I don't know but after that day it's like I never never did it again what's back on track program it was this mandatory program that you had to take like after you get a DUI so you can either you know everyone has to take it but for me because I was still in university I didn't even have a car so they were like oh you can put the breathalyzer in your car oh yeah okay for a year but the program itself was just like a program my dad had to take me to like for a year and I was like oh my god I'm gonna get in a circle and it was like educational but then they're like you can take the you can have this thing in your car for a year or you can just wait another year after your license has been suspended and have no thing so I was like well I don't have a car anyway so I just took the two-year
Speaker 3suspension and it was yeah and then so then after that you did that stop like you're drinking and using and then like how did that what ended up happening that stopped my drinking and driving
Speaker 1and then I was like oh my god I never want to be this drunk and that's when the cocaine started stimulants because I didn't want to be that drunk person but I still wanted to go out um so I graduated you know like it was wasn't it was pretty tame in university honestly because it was expensive and I was couldn't afford it I think we did like more molly than anything else but I graduated with honors you know I did everything I was supposed to do so I didn't see really anything as a problem and the DUI was definitely a problem but every all the other times I was just doing what everyone else was doing so I wouldn't say it was catastrophic behavior um but it was in 2013 when my parents got me a car and I was like oh my god I'm gonna get a car I got a divorce and it was really hard on the family that's when I was living in Toronto I had my own business that because I was on my own schedule and quite frankly I was pretty I was drinking every day like I lived in Liberty Village and trying to kind of cope from this thing that's going on but also putting my energy somewhere right and big cities are very easy places to hide addiction so no one cares how many drinks you have no one else right and cocaine's nothing it's like oh let's do right it's not like you're going off and hiding doing it it's
Speaker 3like a lot I used to think everyone was doing it but a lot of turns out a lot of people don't but I mean the people you start to hang out with it's just yeah it becomes a norm right yeah and I don't I don't know about you but I always looked for um you know I've heard the term lower companions I don't really like that term but like people that were quote-unquote worse than I was because it made me feel better about how bad I was and where I was at so people that maybe had professions that were not as good as I was quote-unquote right or people that were doing harder drugs than me um and yeah you start to frequent I love that it's like in a big city it is really easy to kind of just blend in and hide and you start ending up I mean at least for me like I started finding out these new after hours and booze cans and places where you could do drugs openly in in establishments and I loved it like I thought it was amazing that all these people were you know headed down the same path as me because I knew same thing like you I knew it was not good for me I knew it wasn't sustainable but yeah I couldn't get out of it for so long
Speaker 1I need it to be extreme whether it's a behavior or a consequence yeah black or white yeah all in
Speaker 3and I mean I think that's what ultimately leads you to entrepreneurship and so do you want to talk about like the journey between getting help maybe going into like how did you end up in prison
Speaker 1I ended up in prison because when I was going through all the stuff with my family I met someone through my work who was sober and had gone through it before we did some business together we were pretty close like you'll see some people say I was your boyfriend he wasn't that like we were just very close we had this love for each other but it wasn't like this big sexual thing so I don't know where people got that term boyfriend because I think in my legal paperwork that's what they decided he was to me when he wasn't so anyway we go on this trip and then three days into the trip he's like did you really think this is all fun and games we're here to work and then it all kind of like came back to me because like a couple days before he just came over to my apartment and he's like hey like I want to take you on this trip but there's something I got to ask him like what he's like well do you want to make some cash and bring drugs back and I was like what the fuck like absolutely not like I traveled a lot in my life I lived in Indonesia I worked for the ministry of affairs I volunteered all around the world and so like my passport was really valuable to me and the sense that someone was thinking that I would do that or I wanted to do that I was making money I didn't need money so I was so pissed so I was like just cute get like it and it came to me as a shock because this person that was sober that was like helping me do like little things like walk my dog it was like those little things not these big grandiose gestures but things to help you like just get to the next day like how did this even come up like how did it go from that to this and so I was just pissed and so we kicked him out and then I go out that night and he's like hey listen I don't know where that's coming from I'm so sorry like like let's just go on a trip and nothing weird happened I was like you know what I believed him I took that one bad thing that happened that day that weird thing but I then I like reminded myself of all the good things that he did so I was like okay I believed him and so like there was that question that was proposed to me earlier it's not like I went down there and there was no talk about like he had asked me prior and I was just mortified um and mad and then but when he asked me like he knew that I was going out that night so he's like oh she'll get a couple couple drinks in her and be like yeah okay trust me like and then three days in I have to get in the car go to this house it's got bricks and bricks cocaine in the walls it's like strapped to my body and I have to wear this really ugly ass dress it's like that covers the drugs it looks like a Kleenex box it's shoved under my dress yeah and um obviously he's like yeah I'm in a lot of debt these people so I guess when he booked the tickets he sent my passport info alongside his because he owed money to these cartel people or whoever they were so I just want to go home like I was I was not a good gangster obviously so I just wanted to go home and when we got questioned at the border the last question they asked me was like we're going to do a physical search on you so I had to say yes or else I'm not going to lie to a federal agent and then that landed me four years in federal prison Jesus so again owning owning your
Speaker 3shit why do you think they asked you to search like that's not normal right well our body language
Speaker 1is way off number two they're actually tracking him so he had done this trip multiple times and they're like who because like he had a wife too so they're like that's not his wife he earned like an ex-wife or something but like I guess they were like separated I don't know didn't add up though nothing added up but so then after I got arrested it was two and a half years on house arrest and really coming to terms with how like my substances had got me there I mean I everything else was kind of a surprise but I knew that I had to address something like it was like come on like I'm not blaming this guy I'm not blaming the system I blamed him for a bit I was sure yeah but then I was like no one's gonna fix this but you and it was really fucking annoying just sitting in emotional anguish for a year and a half because that wasn't me so that was like weed was taking away my personality being in that state yeah
Speaker 3they always say resentment is like drinking poison and hoping the other person dies right like every day I'm just heard that that one that's a good one yeah it's like I'm festering over this every single day and the guy's probably not even thinking about it right you know he's not thinking about my resentment or whatever maybe he is but he's renting space in my head and I'm the only one suffering I always tell people it's like and trust me I'm a hypocrite like I when I get resentments I forget that quickly and it's like oh don't you like and it's all ego right like yeah it's all you versus me I'm right you're wrong um but it's it's yeah it's I love what you said it's like you it takes away your personality because all you're thinking about is the resentment and I always relate it back to it's like being a drug addict too all you're thinking about is getting drugs doing drugs you know acquiring money to get the drugs then you're thinking about how I'm going to survive tomorrow with more drugs and it's like this how can you be yourself when you're in that state of constant planning and and uh pre-meditation right it's very similar it's like all I'm thinking about is how I'm going to get this guy back how I'm going to you know win how I'm going to succeed how I'm going to whatever yeah um so I can completely relate to that so what did he end up getting house arrest he got same amount of time as me
Speaker 1because our lawyers like just separated the case and I'm not I'm not going to testify against him pretty obvious I brought these drugs over this border I'm not going to test it testify against the people that he knows because I don't even know what's true my poor family they're innocent victims like I had to drain my savings I had some savings but I still they still had to help me and so they were just like Emily like this is this is kind of like the last straw and like good on them right because if they didn't save me that if they didn't give me that that ultimatum you know maybe i wouldn't have taken this seriously
Speaker 3yeah because i did so you go to prison um what was that like prison was like honestly i was ready
Speaker 1for it because i saw i kind of began to reframe prison as not just not prison but like a form of freedom um you know somewhere where i was like a number one it's like rehab which i definitely needed yeah it was i was gonna see it as educational because i could read as many books as i wanted and i took advantage of the library system and i also saw it as a way to like also like get like my own business degree like i started to build this idea of this business inside so it's like i went to business school rehab and took a sabbatical at the same time i'm not gonna spend 50 grand on legal fees and have it amount to nothing right so i was like i saw this as an investment and that was after like being mad for a year i was gonna say like that doesn't come right away no i had to be mad for a good year and a half i breached my bail got caught getting cigarettes like just kicking and screaming and then it was just like my lawyer was like emily we know that you're a good person but if you just don't follow these rules like we can't prove that so that was kind of like the turning point and that's when i was like all right i started to research where i was going i ended up meeting a few people by chance that had been to the same prison i was going to like just through volunteering and some of these things happen like you go to volunteer somewhere and then you just happen to meet someone that had been to prison for the exact same thing it's like kind of like the world works
Speaker 3and so i was ready i mean the universe god whatever you want to call it kind of throws people in your life right and you can either pick it up the signs or you can ignore it completely yeah yeah interesting so you're in there um did you get did you have to you had to serve the full thing or did
Speaker 1you i served it and um so i did like the canadian prison system if you are a good inmate which i was like i'm getting out of here then you are eligible for day parole after one six-year sentence right so that's a halfway house you're eligible for full parole after a third and that is living on your own basically so because i had no violent history all i was good in prison nothing happened like i didn't do drugs in prison like i a lot of people and i i uh i have my family and my friends just to thank for this because if you don't support in there it's very hard to find motivation to to change right but even the people in prison that i was in there with were like great so that's why who i advocate for every day i think we're not these menaces and the majority of people in prison are a majority of women in prison are moms right and they get caught up so yeah served it all but in different ways yeah that's awesome
Speaker 3i mean it's it's amazing to hear that you were able to shift your perspective like that i think a lot of people need to hear that that's possible because yeah like you said at the beginning everyone's going through shit right like there's people out there right now in prison that maybe they just made a mistake right like one mistake in their life and they end up you know paying the price um i've been to prison only once and it was on the other side uh as of today in in u.s no here oh it was a jail it was a jail like i i brought in um i volunteered there oh okay yeah i meant like the yeah that's the other side of the border yeah no i so like the other side of the prison and uh so i i was able to sort of see and sit down with these guys and i think it really does shift your perspective on people right and like prison inmates and yeah it's it's true like there's a lot of them that want to change and they the guys that i was sitting down with had a problem with alcohol and they wanted to get sober and it was just amazing to sit beside these guys and hear how they were changing their life or planning to and they were staying sober and doing all these things because you mentioned uh it's pretty easy to use drugs and alcohol in prison if you wanted to right yeah did you find that that that was a challenge to stay sober through that no because i was done i was like i'm
Speaker 1and that was like where my rebelliousness kicked in again because it's like people think this is going to be the end so it's like you can take your rebelliousness and your need for revenge and turn really good or really bad yeah so but it's harnessing that same energy right so i was like no one's going to tell me what the rest of my life is going to be i am going to do this i also didn't necessarily see myself i think like maybe not until recently that i really wasn't an addict i just medicated instead of celebrated so like that's when i was okay i can like have a couple drinks i definitely don't but you can't put yourself in an environment where there's like piles of cocaine because what are you going to do in that environment but i can go to a restaurant and have a downward spiral right that's when people are like oh you're an addict for the rest of your life and i was like well i don't i never really saw it as that and that's actually been a sign of strength for me a source of strength for me because like i didn't give up that control but some everyone's different right like my um a lot of people i know like they can't it has to be one or the other feast
Speaker 3or famine basically yeah that's me i've tried many times to moderate and yeah try back doors as i mentioned at the beginning of the podcast yeah now i'm at a point where you can't just like it just every time it took me down a road i never saw like i didn't even know existed right like it just again new drugs hanging out with different people that i shouldn't have been hanging out with and then ultimately at the end of the day when all is said and done everyone goes home i'm left with me and i just hate myself right like yeah forget about all the outside circumstances what's going on in here when i relapsed was just the word because too like i saw how good life could be sober and completely sober yeah and then i saw how bad you know hanging out with the devil every night yeah i always say that it's true like i literally felt like i was hanging out with the dance or what is it you make a deal with the devil and they always come back to collect yeah yeah he came back all right yeah um but yeah so it's like and i'm that's why i'm really happy that you came on too because it's it's it doesn't have to be about complete abstinence for everybody like everyone's path is different when i came into recovery i was the guy that was like nope you're either in or out like i was very hard-headed about that because again i have this thing where i think that what works for me works for everyone else and you have to follow my plan it's all ego right i've come a long way since then and when i started this podcast i really met a lot of people that don't follow the same path that i follow and they're happy yeah so who the who the fuck am i to tell them that has to do they have to recover my way right it's like whatever works for you works for you and then i started i started now working with guys and coaching and and therapy and going back to school and all these things and i don't i try not to come out the gate with you know you got to do 12 step you got to do that you got to because like first of all that makes people run the fuck away because what to do and also that might not work for them yeah it might it might it might not it works for me and i run your own race as they say there you go so um how did you get into your business that you have now and how did that happen i see you getting excited that makes me happy because like i can tell
Speaker 1passion is awesome so when i was in prison i met so many people that were just like me like people that i made mistakes were so misunderstood some of it might have been financial reasons some might have been like substance abuse issues some of it might have been violence a fraud a lot of it was but everyone that i met in there realized that they did something wrong and the people that didn't there there's also so much mental illness unfortunately where people are just housed together who shouldn't even be in there um but we all like talked about like the things that we did before prison and the jobs that we had and the passions that we had but how the workforce or like the corporate world still condemns you as a person when you're done your time right it doesn't matter if you did your time you're still you have a record you can't you're not employable and i was of to prove to myself and other people that you know this is never happening again but also taking accountability responsibility and seeing how I not not not just how I can learn but also how others what others are teaching me I learned from so many other people in there as well and I also became very grateful for like the family that I did have and I was like you know popcorn was a popular prison snack like we'd all make like different recipes food like we cooked a lot of our own food because I was in medium because I wasn't violent and um yeah we just talked about stories from home and so home create create creating over food food is like a blank canvas for storytelling and connecting and really unifying everybody so back to the popcorn is it's been one one of my favorite snacks because part of my addiction like honestly whatever it was part of my substance use was triggered actually by food issues is concurrent and so I was in prison I didn't want you the food thing to come back up again so you mean like not eating yeah eating disorder yeah because I didn't want I've dealt with that too yeah and I was like this is not I'm not relapsing here I am not because that controlled me for 10 years and I was like no so like I made sure that I ate like healthy stuff I exercise which was awesome and that was so I healed my relationship with food while I was inside and then I was like why don't I start a popcorn company where I can employ people have like really interesting flavors with an interesting mission and that's to employ formerly incarcerated and that's what it started with popcorn and stamps and I would write letters I read 82 books we all told like told like our own stories and that's when I was like yeah I want to prove everyone else wrong and prove ourselves right and
Speaker 3it's gonna be hard but here we are what's and so the name of the company is Comeback Snacks and so what does your operation now look like like what is what is it what does that look like
Speaker 1uh we're in 1500 stores across the country we didn't take investment for the first three years so I bootstrapped all of it but it's all because I worked with the community I worked with the volunteers I went to the churches like I I practiced my like storytelling at schools and different places so building up this network and then I also shared it with the local paper which then it was picked up by the Toronto Star and of course I knew I was going to take some heat like there's going to be people that are just nasty but at that point it didn't even phase me because
Speaker 3I was like I talked like that to myself yeah yeah yeah I talked worse to myself yeah yeah yeah and then you
Speaker 1and then also like in the system like the prison guards are nice to you like they treat you like crap you know so it's like you're already used to kind of this it just fuels your fire um I hate that cool haters are my motivators but it's it is kind of of true like you don't want you don't focus on them like they're your motivators like again like that revenge kind of like control but you're just like all right fine that's what you think then see you later and so yeah we're we have five flavors and I have employed 15 people over the course of like five years that have all been incarcerated so yeah wow and so you said 1500
Speaker 3stores yeah oh my god that's amazing um where do you see it in the future like where do you want
Speaker 1to bring it what's what's the next thing um continue to grow in Canada so we're just kind of tapping into different channels that we never really imagined ourselves in like like office snacks um we're in a lot of arenas we're in Scotiabank arena we're in Rogers Center Bud Stage I'm working a lot with like fundraising divisions grocery gas and convenience hotels are a big one wineries breweries beer and popcorn go well together and like just events as well so but building that up the states the time will come but just not right now just more spread across
Speaker 3Canada yeah for obvious reasons yeah can't go there anyway yeah oh man that's amazing um if you if you could go back and sort of like change it all and and not take the path that you can whether it's addiction you know pick pick a life where it was like not involved with addiction do you think you would you would take that life
Speaker 1I don't I even I don't even know how to answer that because you're only born you're only born once so how could I like I think it's just in my genes like it's my energy like I read a lot about a lot of entrepreneurs and creatives that kind of have these similar habits so if I was to take a different path I'd have to be born a completely different person and I wouldn't want to be born a different person nice right so if that's where it took me that's where it took me but because of like the way that I'm doing it I'm not going to be born a different person I'm going to be born a different person I'm going to be born a different person I'm going to be born a different person that we are wired to kind of get in and get ourselves into situations but our ability to get ourselves out I don't think I'd choose any other life but I would take back like all the times that I hurt my family yeah they were innocent victims in that case for sure that's what you know that's what I worked so hard to to fix and to heal and you know we're on great great terms now but again it's not overnight it's not it takes a long time and it has to be a repeated behavior
Speaker 3yeah yeah trust is built in small moments right like over time trust is time essentially and it yeah we get sober and or we get back to um whatever come back we we come back and we're I'll see what you did there yeah like I'm like thinking of the name of the episode in my head as I talk it's got to be something amazing but I'll figure it out and uh we expect everyone to be like healed right or like I'm I'm healed because I spent all this time in prison or whatever and you come back and it's not the case like people need their own time right they need their own healing path like we talked about before I think that's one of the hardest things that addicts have to accept is that I can't just like you mom couldn't stop me using and drinking I can't heal you right it's kind of like this two-way thing yeah and uh it's really hard to accept you know yeah I talked to a lot of parents um for my job that are trying to get their their loved ones into into treatment and you can really tell pretty quickly like how far along the acceptance I don't know ladder they kind of are with it all and uh trying to tell people the heart the hardest part of my job with talking to loved ones is telling people that they can seek help themselves well why do I have to fucking change right he's the one using and drinking like it's not my problem it's their problem it's like no no you play a part in this whole family dynamic you know yeah you didn't you didn't cause the addiction you didn't cause the jail you didn't no I'm not saying that but there's a part here where you either enabled or or did something along the way and now there's a part for you to heal too right and get your own sort of healing yeah so because again you can't fix anyone absolutely
Speaker 1like and I know for me just for my chemical healing I guess from it's because I'll admit like before I went to prison I went on bender you know like yeah the last bang yeah yeah so I was like I knew that I needed if I went in for a month it wouldn't have helped I need I knew that I needed at least a year to completely recalibrate my brain and my thought process and all about thinking chemically and like mentally like mentally right so that's why I was glad that I was in for that amount of time if I was in for like three months I would have been a little bit more nervous because I'm like I would I think if it was three months I still would have been thinking what am I gonna do when I get out not like what can I do now whereas I knew that I was in for at least a year it's like
Speaker 3what can I do now instead of what am I getting out what do you do today when when life sort of you like how do you get through struggles today is it easier do you think because of what you went through or I think you have
Speaker 1to allow yourself to be sad the last time I didn't allow myself to be sad um you know because I was had this business I was just trying to focus on like what I was doing and and being a like successful business owner and like just not wanted to compartmentalize anything and so like now it's like okay you can compartmentalize put something over here be sad about it and that's okay like you can't dwell on it but you also have to like allow yourself to feel things whereas before I didn't I was like cocaine was botox for the soul botox for the soul
Speaker 3yeah wow huh it's almost like uh yeah it just completely numbs it like whatever it's a quick fix or whatever I like that that's good um if you could uh if you could say something sorry I want to say one more thing before I ask you the last question because I just remembered it now but um I find that yeah like that really hit me actually today like allow yourself to be sad because I've spent a lot of time not doing that I you know I'll what happens to me is life will happen something will happen and I want to fix it right away and I want to jump into whatever I need to do to please whatever I'm a people pleaser do this that it's like no like yeah you need to take a second and just like acknowledge that you're human and you're allowed to feel feelings and it's okay but you don't have to dwell in it yeah yeah how do you get out of that though like how do you get from I don't know I don't know how do you get out of that though how do you get out of that though
Speaker 1I don't know like what does that process look like well it starts with anger number one like first you're mad you want revenge then you I just was tired of being sad I was like I only have one life I don't want to be like this I hated feeling like that but I knew it was necessary um I know it is necessary like obviously if you have a shit couple days and you know you have to let yourself feel that and make sure you're around the right people because some people will tell you to do the complete thing that's actually not good for you right um like sometimes I told the wrong people when I was sad about like that my family splitting up they're like well aren't you old enough you know and it's just like so I wasn't allowed to
Speaker 3be sad yeah yeah right and so I was like well fuck you then okay no it's true yeah um and a lot of those problems come from childhood when you know if you cry like being a a boy growing up in uh Italian European household there was a lot of times where it was like yeah you don't really show emotions right and that that ends up affecting you down the road where you're not able to show emotions anymore so I love that surround yourself with the right people yeah um and sometimes it's
Speaker 1gonna take a while to figure out sometimes you're gonna surround yourself with the wrong people and then you learn yeah and so you're more cautious and you're more careful and that's also a part of learning yeah you know what to look for and you'll you'll know when you're tired of being sad you're like you'll you'll know you'll be like screw this like I'm over it now then like you know you gotta you gotta also move on and do things like like I don't know I love my dogs going to the gym but I don't surround myself with people when I'm going through the sad phase that are going to make me angry. Go take me back a step because that's the first step I think right yeah or gossip or you know yes
Speaker 3people right the people yeah yeah you should beat that guy up exactly yeah that was dangerous place to be yeah okay let's end with this um if you could say something to someone who is start trying to start a new venture or a company or dream goal passion and they're really struggling right now
Speaker 1what do you say to that person give me a call I'll help them I love it yeah honestly call me I'm here to help and I had a lot of help building mine you know every person that I wrote a letter to like that's how I built my mentorship network so I'm here to help um yeah I guess that's it like right having a good mentor yeah have a good mentor and then if I can help you I'll I'll introduce you to someone who can because I obviously don't know everything amazing yeah
Speaker 3I love that too there's a bit of humility there too um where can we find you Emily where can we
Speaker 1find uh popcorn or me me do you have like social media like yeah um at comeback snacks is the company one but my profile is at comeback snacks it's a company one but my profile is at comeback snacks it's a personal one where I share more of my own journey is ms.obrien okay and I'll write that in
Speaker 3the notes too so people can follow along too yeah awesome thank you so much for coming I appreciate
Speaker 1having a great time yes and now you know that the the marshall amp it's a fridge yeah the marshall
Speaker 3amp is a fridge and I'm gonna use it going forward yeah for non-alcoholic beverages and and etc
Speaker 4awesome thanks for listening please help us grow the channel and like share and subscribe for more content the discussions and stories will be shared with you in the next episode of the show the stories shared on this podcast are for informational and motivational purposes only this content is not a substitute for professional medical advice addiction treatment or therapy if you or someone you know is struggling with addiction please consult a licensed physician addiction specialist or mental health professional you are no longer alone you
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