"I Enjoy Nothing." Clavicular Exposes The Dark Reality of Fame, Censorship, and Success

Clvicular welcome back to the Jack Noel podcast. Thank you. Yeah, man since we last saw each other You've become arguably the most famous streamer in the world one of the most famous guys on earth right now How was your life changed since our last conversation? A lot more public recognition and just sort of being like an infamous figure where you know sort of people's parents are talking about me and I'm hitting a lot more demographics than just that super niche looks Maxing community. So that's probably been the the biggest thing It's just brand-recognizability. So yeah, it's been a huge huge swing. Tell me about like some of the numbers like a couple months ago What were you got on kick Instagram? Do you know like four months ago five months ago? Well four or five months ago. I didn't even have kick so I couldn't even give you those numbers. I kind of started streaming around November so it just took off really quick There was a lot of good collabs and I would say that podcasts along the way as sort of push me the hardest so just just a huge variety of different content funnels to drive people towards my message and expand my audience. Would you call yourself the number one creator in the world right now? No, no not even close Maybe the fastest growing though Yeah, I think I've arguably had one of the fastest come-ups in streaming absolutely. What do you think? You're the fastest growing creator in the world right now. I think I have a lot of strategies that are good for viral clipping engagement. I think kick has helped push me a lot with their clipping budget So you know over six figures a month and in that campaign have been going towards pushing me out there to know audiences because I'm kick there's not really a lot of growth right? There's not as many users as switched so people aren't organically coming across your streams So they kind of have to incentivize people to stream in that platform in other ways and one of the ways I go about it is with the gig clipping program where there's like a you know 20 or 30 dollar CPM And that kind of incentivizes people per thousand views something like that. Yeah, Jesus. How many people are clipping for you right now? I believe it's about a thousand Do you know how many views you're getting a month a billion a billion views a month. Yeah Wow, that's like Tate level at the peak of his career in like 2022. That's insane. Um, I I guess the clips specifically like the content Why do you think it's resonating with people because A big reason I wanted to interview you when we met each other and I did a podcast with our mutual friend Karim Shami Of course was because this topic of looks maxing was really exploding But it's almost got to a point where You're as big as the niche if not bigger than it So why do you think you strike a chord with people? Why do you think you're so controversial? Um, I would say I'm extremely controversial because of some of the language that I use on my streams It's a lot of very unfiltered content because you put anyone on a camera for 10 hours in a row It's very hard for them to sort of put up a character or put on a show And that's kind of how I talk off camera. I don't really try to censor myself So I'm just like, um, I'm just gonna commit to this uh and be as authentic as possible with my content and that just makes it easier Yeah, a lot of people ask me in person because they've seen our podcasts They're like is this guy really like this off camera and I'm not gonna answer that for you, but do you think you're the same person on off camera? Yeah, I would say so. I mean, I would say that some of the activities I do on stream and which I've commonly noted Like you know playing mini golf or going to an arcade. That's shit. I would never do if I wasn't streaming That's simply for content, but I make that very clear when I'm doing it. So uh, it's not like I'm putting on A complete act and pretending I like these normy jester activities. It's like it's very intentional So you see yourself as a bit more normal on stream than you are in real life like a little bit more toned down Maybe or what do you think? Not necessarily toned down, but uh sometimes I'll have to do things that Uh, I wouldn't otherwise want to you know, so like I'm a very chill person. I like to be By myself most of the time. So having to be a little bit more outgoing On a consistent basis hanging out with people every day. That's probably something I wouldn't otherwise do What would you say is the thing you wish you knew before you went mainstream Um, the thing that I wish I knew before I went mainstream Hmm Sort of that there's like a lot of rules to the content that you make in the the streaming world That are kind of unspoken things Just the way that you engage in collaborations kind of what you could say or do um And how far you push it kind of will limit your reach. There's gonna be a lot of censorship that goes into things So that that's kind of stuff that I had no idea about until I started streaming Can you tell me a little bit more about that like uh, I know you're not a political person, but um, do you think Streaming and content creation is kind of similar to politics and that What you're saying you can collab with certain people you can't collab with others. Yeah, it's extremely political And you do have to play the game where if you're to collab with one person and they're should talking another streamer Kind of figuring out how to Not necessarily agree with them, but to kind of distance yourself from their comments just so that you could remain Sort of in the middle of that beef is something that you have to learn how to navigate really well um, so I'd say that's one of the most political things and uh another one was After my interview on the daily wire that kind of made people believe that I was a political figure When it couldn't be further from the truth I mean one of my main sayings in one of the most popular things that I've ever said is politics is jester So uh, that that's kind of my standpoint and that's my belief is I want nothing to do with it It's not good content. It kind of distracts people from my main messaging So it's just not something I want to engage in I know you've broken this down before but Why are politics jester in your view like why do you genuinely not value it because I know you're an intelligent guy I know you look at the stuff you see the stuff going on, but why Should guys are aged not really care about it Because there are so much better things to prioritize and the average person does not have the time to be Dedicating hours scrolling on Twitter listening to podcasts about politics is all Extremely counterproductive When you're struggling when you're at a huge disadvantage with your sexual market value Um, whether that be from your income whether that be from your looks So once you've improved upon all these metrics and kind of get yourself to a little bit better Of a percentile in all of them then it's something that you could evaluate having a position on because you start making six figures a year Uh, you're in the gym you're looking good. Okay, maybe you want to Be someone who's a little bit involved That's one thing and that could certainly be discussed uh, but until then I think it's a little bit ridiculous Did you ever care about politics or do you ever see yourself caring about them more in the future? I don't really think I ever will too much. It's sometimes hard to avoid once you have like a lot of influence because There's a lot of people who want you to be super political and trying to avoid it has been a little bit difficult People want you to support republican party, you know democratic party um So it and all these political talk show guys Uh, want to sort of use your influence for their agenda So like especially on the daily wire and stuff they really wanted me to be in support of like the right wing and Telling young voters to sort of like join this cultural movement And I'm just like no, it's it's such a waste of time. So I gave like a really black pill take on there So I don't really think I'll ever get involved with politics again to as much of a degree as I Kind of used to be when I was growing up certainly when I was like 14 15 years old I was watching a lot of the podcasts, you know, looking at alternative media So it's sort of into it, but Then again, that's that's kind of just getting into all the fringes of the internet same way I came across looks max That's all just like forum nonsense, you know, do think politicians are gesture for using what you said about Gavin Mogging JD Vance to push his agenda Yeah, um, I would say so because they don't even know what it means So a lot of these politicians are sort of trying to adapt to like the zoom or lingo and I find it extremely cringe Like the Department of War Department of Defense like tweeting out about like cortisol lowering and War maxing it's just such like a virtue signal and it's it's low after you ask the person running that to an account Okay, what does this actually mean? They have no fucking idea. They just saw it on their timeline and are like, okay, this is good for PR Um, so them trying to have this like horrible horrible approach of Appealing to the youth has just been such to fail from both parties, really. And I think that's why, for the most part, a lot of people want me to become a political figure to sort of have influence over Gen Z, but it's just not gonna happen. - How much are your streaming every week? - Over 50 hours, between 50 and 70. - Do you sleep a lot? - I sleep a good amount, like eight hours a day, yeah. - Okay. - Yeah, I know you don't talk about how much money you make often, but I'll give you two options. What's the most amount of money you've turned down or maybe most you've made in a day, if you're open to it? - Most money I've made in a day? Well, I mean, getting cash upfront from a deal, like, I don't know if that counts, but if it's like a month worth of deliverables, the most money I've made in like an average J work, it's just things that I've done within that day and there's no deliverables to be done after. It's probably like 50,000 or something around there. - How about most amount of money you've turned down? - I turned down six figure deals almost daily. - Daily? - Yeah. - Are you paying taxes? - This is the first year that I'm going to have to pay taxes. Yeah, because I was actually getting tax returns before, because my income was so shady, but now it's a little bit different, so yes. This is your first year of paying taxes. Wow, what month did you move to Florida in? - September. - September? Oh man, it's a Cali's gonna. - Cali's gonna be me, yeah, for sure. But most of my income kind of started after I was in South Florida, so I don't really know too much. I'm not gonna pretend to be a CPA. I have people to do that for me, but I think I'll probably be good for the most part. A lot of my stuff is gonna be written off this year, 'cause having to invest in all the equipment, upfront, and I have a pretty big payroll, so I'm not really gonna go whack too hard, not yet at least. - Yeah, I remember when I moved to California, it was like in December of 2020 or something, 2021, and I had to pay California taxes, or they charged me for it, and I had to like follow this view, even though it was from Kentucky. So they just tacked on an extra 10%. But what can you afford now to looks max that you couldn't before? Who? Let's see. I would say that really nice clothing is something that I've sort of been trying to implement more and more. And I do think there's a lot more importance than I could have predicted back in the day. I probably would have said it was ridiculous, it was a cope. But having nice custom fitting clothes is something that makes you stand out in a crowd, right? Where people are wearing old Navy and just random garbage. If you're pulling up and custom suits that are a few thousand dollars and everything's well fitting, good colors, it goes a long way. - What are like some staples, like for Gen Z guys, what would be some outfits that they for sure need, some colors, do you have any hacks for this? - Yeah, I really like all black, just keeping it simple. One of my favorites, brands recently has been true classic. That's just the polo I'm wearing now. It's just a very chill, athletic sort of casual wear brand. If I'm not all dressed up wearing custom Hugo boss stuff, so I'll go this on the casual days. And I think a really nice watch goes a long way because I didn't realize until I started my collection that the people do notice all the time. And you'll look back at the person in comments on your watch and they'll often be wearing something nice, protect, AP, whatever. So just sort of having that little bit of recognition from usually a wealthy demographic is very nice. - Do you think girls care about luxury brands or do you think it's something that guys care about? - I don't really think that girls have any idea what a lot of the watches are, if that's what you mean, but in terms of brands, it's really all about how it fits. And a lot of the nice stuff that you can get is going to be custom tailored and has no brand name on it at all. I think it's just a little bit silly. The guys who are wearing like these trashy, javinci, like Louis Vuitton, super branded shit. That just makes you look like a fucking recharge. It makes you look like a waiter. So I would recommend people stay as far away from that as possible. And if you're going to spend a lot of money on clothes, just get something custom, no branding, it's dog shit. - Yeah, I was surprised to see you wearing a suit because I would see that when I met you as something that you would think is gesture to like wear suits and shit, but do you think it's like pretty chill now? - I think it's pretty chill now because it makes me look high class and I am sort of high class now in terms of my income status, all that kind of stuff. So it's certainly an adjustment. I think if you're just like wearing suits and you're like a regular university student, people are gonna look at you and be like, "Dude, what the fuck are you doing?" 'Cause I saw a couple of suits gestures when I was at ASU on Shreem and I was like, okay, this is a little bit silly, but when I'm walking around with security detail and a huge studio camera rigs, it's like, okay, this is a little bit more justifiable. No one really questions it. So, on fashion, you recently got an opportunity with a big fashion brand or you got to walk. - Was it in Fashion Week? - Yeah. - Okay, tell me about that. - So I closed Fashion Week for a lane of les and that was a pretty good time. I didn't really know too much about it going into it. Even though it seems like it's a big part of looks maxing, but it's more of just like in a meme context of like PSL gods and like Shono pry, Gandhi, people just posting their face. But in terms of like the actual fashion scene and how the runways work really wasn't something I could. I've told you about until I sort of got an inside look and I was able to stream all of it. So people got a good sense of how it works. The biggest thing I was surprised by is they could kind of just like do whatever look that they want to these models and they kind of just have to eat shit and do whatever, right? So they're like bleaching out their eyebrows, like in back their hair, making them look all shitty and they're just sitting there like yep, this is what I got to do, but they were trying to give me a hairdo I didn't like and I put up a big stink and sort of since I have that influence and I'm there because I have a following behind me. I could kind of tell the producers like you pretty much, like they wanted to give me a wig for a second. I was like absolutely not guys. So that was kind of nice, but just not being able to choose the style that you go with and having these brands just sort of being able to control you is definitely something that exists. - They try to make you wear a wig? - Yeah, what kind of wig? - Just some like select back look and they could do all sorts of silly shit and make people look really comical. - Huh, were you surprised that you got asked to walk in Fashion Week with your brand that you have? - No, Elena Vales is pretty controversial. So we kind of had to start off with something like that. To sort of get my foot in the door. And hopefully I'll just become so mainstream like already have been that brands are just like whatever he's already here. People are already talking about it. There's more pros and cons to having them on. So if we could get some more mainstream Fashion Weeks going, that'd be pretty cool in the future. - You know, I texted you the other day. I was like so surprised because these big brands and management agencies were reaching out to me. And I've had some pretty controversial people on my podcast, Aquenta's Tate, yourself. And they pinpointed a big reason. They're like, well, Clav just walked in Fashion Week. This is where people's eyes are. Do you think you're kind of changing the narrative of what's allowed on line in general? Like shifting the overton window? - Oh yeah, absolutely. No, I certainly have been. But people ask me this question all the time. I would say that it really was other figures who kind of paved the way for someone like myself to come along and just be like 10, 15% less than them in terms of the things that they're saying. So someone like Nick and Tate who you just mentioned, but I would say for the most part, Nick, them being like so over the line with what they're saying and pushing the limits so far. I could come in, just slightly dial it back and just fly under the radar. So it would be more so credit to them than myself. - Yeah, the only clips I've got accounts, like account restricted for or clips from Tate, you and Nick Fuentes, which I find so funny 'cause you guys push the limit too far, even for Instagram. But yeah, it's, do you think this is a good thing overall that people are allowed to say more? Do you think it has a chance of going too far eventually? Or do you think we should just be able to say whatever online? - I don't believe in any censorship really at all. So I would say that it's definitely a good thing that content becomes a little less restricted. - Absolutely. - Yeah, I think I agree with you over there. On the Fashion Week portion, I saw Brett Cooper was there. What would you think of your interaction with Brett Cooper at Fashion Week? - I didn't really think much of it at all. People on Twitter were sort of eating that up, writing the stuff. So I'll come to to Brett's defense a little like we really didn't interact much I think people made it a bigger deal than it was like to the point where she had to make an entire YouTube video Sort of like explaining herself. I thought the whole thing was funny, but I don't know how Hard she takes that media. So I'm really not gonna like keep the narrative going or anything But they also did that same thing to Isabella Moody when I went to Arizona state sort of just like making fun of her husband or whatever even though like Me and him are super cool now So just people writing stupid shit on the internet is something that's going to exist forever and It's just so much more now because of the incentivization with CPM for clippers to write it shit That's just what it comes down to would you date or marry a girl that made conservative content online? No No, I wouldn't I wouldn't want to really be involved as someone who's a public figure Supposing on social media just a lot of risk there and I also just kind of think it's cringe at the end of the day for Girls to be making political content. Well really anyone, but more so more so women so and it is just something that could go horribly wrong like you don't want everyone up in your business with this kind of shit where you have a fight and it's just blasted all over social media and you're on Twitter the next day Relationships are meant to be a little bit more private and I would say a lot of the ones that exist on the internet are often fake often just a whole act to larp so I won't What do you think of tradwarks? Oh? my God the biggest larp in history and it's just like the same like In two sides of the same coin. I would say really They're still very hypergamous They're just putting on an act so that they could just get with a new demographic a lot of the times It's just them looking for a new social media niche really to blow up. It's interesting Yeah, it's it's funny because you and I are very Optimized to make money on social media. So it's weird when I see someone and they don't have anything They're selling or they're like obviously not sponsored. It's like why are you even doing this? It's like what do tradwives sell on social media? Usually only fans Like not even get a lie. I've I've seen like trad accounts on Twitter doing that. There's probably just any normal like sponsorship. I'm pretty sure There's a lot of donations. They probably try to collect like having a patreon or whatever So that that kind of shit interest but anything and everything that they could sell they're selling. I saw a clip of a gone in fandom Saying a streamer on the internet was a spa. Do you think that's true? A spy for like departments or what? You just said a spa in general I would say it's Probably more likely that someone in the streaming world that was Maybe a producer or something It is more likely to be a spy because for like a department to find like a viral Character someone who's extremely charismatic and someone who's also going to be like loyal to a political agenda That just seems a little bit more difficult than like them sort of placing like a behind-the-scenes guy who's tapped in with everything You know, so just it seems a little unrealistic But I would say it's possible Do you think any streamers are an industry plant? Mm-hmm. I would say that Not necessarily industry plants but other creators sort of Pushing them artificially. So you see a big creator like Kyzen at Having like a content house where he brings like a lot of his friends in and having them on on the stream That's what certainly like slightly inorganic growth. So I don't know if you could count that as being Planted but at the end of the day they were just exposed to a new audience They performed well and they converted the views. So like who's really to say? but industry plant-wise I couldn't exactly tell you because even if you have unlimited $10 million a month clipping budget If you're not an interesting person those views aren't going to convert to anything And you're just going to be paying for nothing. So it's just not as possible as people think to be an industry plant You know to touch back on what you said a minute ago. Do you think it's fair to assume? Theoretically that if you're a big influencer you've been approached by someone to push political agendas Hmm. I Don't really think so. Really? No, you think that's ever happened to anyone? Yeah, but it's not like you have a lot of viewership, which means you have a lot of influence I'm someone who has a lot of influence for The amount of followers I have on social media, right? So I have like what? 380,000 on social media something on an Instagram But my influence is is so widespread to this generation that That's why people want me to be political whereas someone who's just doing gaming content even if their Instagram account is Five times that reaches me that they're not going to get approached by any political parties Why do you think that is because people like your fans value your opinions? My fans value my opinions. I'm a bit more of a figure of authority. I'm speaking on a lot of sociological issues so Like I actually have a brand that that means something you're an influencer not a creator. Yeah Exactly. Yeah, why do you think some people say you're an industry plan a little tip if you want to improve your look But you're not sure what products actually work So a friend of ours K-Shami has spent the last couple years testing different ingredients to make formulas that actually Improved your face if you're feeling bloated want to get leaner you can take deep bloat and this will minimize water retention and give you that Chiseled look in your face. It's one of my favorite supplements all of our friends use it and it takes just a few hours to kick in before you See that noticeable change Kays company ascend labs also just released a brand new formula called you glow Which gives you a brighter look and a consistent glow on your face? So if you guys want formulations that actually make you look visibly better Just go to jacknail.com backslash ascend and you can get 10% off your first order Also, you can scan the QR code on screen or hit the first link in the description But anyway guys back to the podcast. Yeah, why do you think some people say you're an industry plan? I would say because of how quick the growth is but I just kind of have Like a unique strategy of of doing a lot of forms of media to push me out there to as many audiences possible like You don't see streamers Going on as many podcasts appearances Going and talking to peers Morgan going and talking to Adam Friedland doing talk shows whatever. It's just not something that has really ever been done before And I'm also incentivized by by kick clipping right because I'm going viral They wouldn't have these these numbers. I wouldn't have these views Um, if I wasn't putting out viral moments everyone has the same opportunities for clipping So just people are choosing to to post my clips because they're the best right now Yeah, it's really funny when people ask me that about you because I used to think some people were big industry plants Kind of used to go down the conspiracy rabbit holes with all this but I met you in LA Like a wild back and then I just watched everything happen. I'm like No, it's possible for someone to be the biggest streamer without that um Yeah, exactly. I've known you since uh, I was Maybe 200 not even maybe like I had 150,000 followers on TikTok and it's been like a pretty slow and steady thing. I mean there was a bit of a A spike in um You know engagement when I had like the whole cancel thing during like the Santa Cruz locked in Sort of put my name out there. I'd like the viral clips um and all that So people were really tuning in to that But after that it kind of just died down again. I was just a normal like Tik Tok YouTube content creator Um slow and organic growth and then like I started doing long form streaming And that took off that did really well because it was a totally new niche That the kick community hasn't seen and then the clips get pushed out to x Which is a little bit older of an audience a bit more political and it just got a lot more eyes on it and It converted really well. Do you feel some type of way that your audience now kind of knows you for something different than the original niche audience Because it used to be such a very niche thing online Yeah, I would say for the most part a lot of the people watching me are sometimes watching me just to talk to girls just a party Regular kick content that's more like normy more mainstream So those people aren't the ones who are like my core Original fan base, but People for the most part understand my messaging. I would say Um, and everyone knows why like I'm in the mainstream I'm not in the mainstream for being just a regular kick streamer. Uh, I'm still You know out there and getting recognized for my message. People are coming up to me asking, "How do I look?" Max not just, you know, like, whatever else they would ask a normal streamer. I don't even know. So it's still on brand for 95% of the time. What's the thing that people say to you the most common that pisses you off? Asking for ratings gets a little bit annoying because you think it's like a quick thing. You just go up and expect this 30-second breakdown. It's no big deal. But it's a big deal when it's happening like hundreds of times a day. And I'm just like, "Can I turn off my looks, Maxing, you know, content for 10 seconds and just hang out, just be chill." And kind of separate the content a little bit. What's the craziest DM you've received since you've come in stream? Craziest DM, like from a creator or just like maybe a big person you never thought to reach out or like some chick tattooed your name on or like something like that? Well, I'm not going to really say like what creators are sort of behind the scenes watching or fans if they don't want me to. But most big creators in every area of the internet have reached out to me with some sort of questions about looks, Maxing. Like almost every single person I grew up watching, everyone in the audience knows they're sending me a DM of some kind. Just ask me whatever, ask me about peptides. What's their rating? What can they do to a send? So that's like the most common thing. And that's kind of why I have like a lot of the connections I do is it's a lot of inbound stuff. You got me thinking about Mr. Beast. Mr. Beast said some good words about you a while back and that was interesting. He's kind of ascended himself. Wasn't that long ago? Yeah, he said something with Jason on his stream that if he were to invest in a streamer and someone who's going to continue growing, it would be myself. And I think he's one of the smartest content creators out there. I have a lot of also bad things to say about Mr. Beast. But not in like a hateful contents. I just think that he's kind of done a lot of people wrong with false promises with collaborations in return for donations and stuff like that and not really following through after the fact. That's one of the biggest things that I've criticized and I've kind of seen as a common theme. But the guy is undeniably one of the best content creators ever. Just his formula for success. And Sneakow kind of broke this down behind the scenes the other day where it was like coming up with the title and thumbnail first and then working backwards. Just something I never would have thought of. But apparently it's one of the best ways to create content on YouTube. So for that guy to endorse me, it's certainly something that's really positive and really motivational for me. After becoming one of the most famous creators online are looks still the most important factor when it comes to getting girls. Yeah, definitely still the most important factor. I've only changed how much I would prioritize or how much credibility I would give to like the status and money after I've ascended. I wouldn't say that they've overtaken looks or even come close to it. So back in the day and like 2024 when I was just first starting out with my content kind of on the come up, I pretty much would give no credibility to improving status or money as something to be leveraged for getting girls for improving yourself in the dating market. But now I'm like, okay, there's a little bit of there's something going on here. This is certainly an important metric to dial in. But the other thing to consider and this is the key nuance that not a lot of people would talk about is my status is so unbelievable that that's not going to be something that's comparable to maybe just becoming like a seven figure a year earner owning like a small business like that's a status that's very hard to achieve a very impressive thing to do. But it's not going to get you the results that come from being like an influencer who's one of the biggest up and coming streamers. So I just don't really think it's necessarily fair for people who have huge personal brands and huge accounts on IG to be telling people like, oh, it's all about status and money when they're like eight figure millionaires, you know, so just it's crazy. So now that you've status maxed, money maxed, looks maxed, like if you could only keep one of those things, which would it be still looks maxing. Yeah, you would let go of all your followers, all your money to just look how you look now. Oh, well, if raising it that way, well, I'm obviously a higher percentile in my income and status than I am in my looks. So you just kind of have to like see how much you think each one of those goes into your overall SMV. But there's SMV and there's also quality of life. So I would keep looks if I was only prioritizing dating and getting girls. But if I was thinking about just from really like widespread view on on my life, that's a tough one, man. I would say probably keeping your status because that's something that's going to be correlated with income. It is probably what I would say. But for SMV, it certainly be looks would you trade places with Elon Musk? Probably, I would say really. You would look like Elon Musk if you had his money. Yeah, because well, if I had his money and his influence, I don't really see like just that amount of money is worth it. I think just having influence over the world and societies, something I've like come to prioritize a little bit more because I think my message is good. I think it actually does benefit a lot of people that improving your looks is going to improve the quality of your life. And there's just no beating around the bush. It's a brutal reality. And I think it's one that that should be shared to everyone. Even if people don't receive the message super well to begin with, they can eventually overcome that and to get past like all the body, dysmorphia stuff and make actual improvement. So that's tough. There's so many different things. So I really don't even like to think about these hypotheticals a lot of the time because I'm just worried about personally maxing out everything and continuing to grow and do so. Who knows? Maybe at some point in my life, I'll be able to achieve that amount of status and money on my own. So what do you think Elon Musk doesn't look max? Do you think he cares about it? Well, he does. He had a hair transplant. He does looks max. Maybe he doesn't push it to the extremes that some people do like myself, but he is a looks maxer. Absolutely. And a lot of the times people will make these tweets on the internet. They'll compare me to people in Hollywood, like famous actors and say, guy who never looks max versus a picture of my face, guy who does looks max. This guy looks better. It's like, no, these people have gotten multiple facelifts, nose jobs. They're using Botox every couple months. So they are very dedicated looks, maxers, Hollywood and that whole industry. Of course they are. It's so silly when people make that argument. What pushes you at this point now that you've gotten one of you've never seen before. You look the best you've looked in your life. You have more status than you could possibly imagine. Like what's still pushing you? Push you made a watch dream to keep going with all of it to keep bumping up the numbers, looking better status maxing. I really haven't had a chance to sit down and and think about that or the end goal. Just I kind of wake up and know what I have to do. And just continuing to build the brand is something that is just without question like what I'm super motivated towards. But I really couldn't tell you why when I really analyze that. I just think it's an enjoyable process. It's going to really benefit the rest of my life how hard I'm working. So I won't probably have to work past the age of 30 or whatever. So I think that's really beneficial for me to just put my head down and grind whereas most people are wasting their time, wage cocking, their university not doing anything to really set themselves up or build a foundation. When I think back to the moment that you started going mainstream, I know a lot of people credit it to your ascension, like cloud blew up right after he ascended, uh, maybe credit it to you went on a few streams and a few podcasts that were pretty big, but like, not to sound cring or 2020 motivational type shit, but was there any mindset or any weird thing that happened to you that made you lock in so hard or have you just always been like this and you just got the right opportunities at the right time. I've always been someone who is super, um, goal driven and the goal is just to become the biggest. So, um, I don't really have to think too much. I just kind of keep my head down and work as hard as possible. Did you have to cut out anything when you started popping off? I stopped working out. Yeah, I stopped working out. I stopped a lot of like the looks, maxing really good habits that kind of got me that initial ascended. So I'd say I'm definitely worse looking than I was when I first blew up to a small degree and people say, Oh, well, uh, you know, how could you be saying you're so committed to looks, maxing, but maybe you fell out of this regimen or, you know, you're not going to the gym, whatever. Um, it's just something that I kind of told myself, I'm going to push really hard for two months. I'm not really going to lose out on, on that much, um, in terms of like the amount of muscle and, uh, sort of my, my looks or whatever, but it's kind of just continued to happen. And it certainly is bad. Like I really should be continuing to train, uh, continuing to put on mass. So I guess like people saying it's, it's hypocritical. It could be true. But I've just been prioritizing content so much. And I, I haven't really locked in and been able to find a way to make it as efficient as possible where I have time in my day to do other things. Yeah, it's funny. You say that you stopped working out after I can't remember when I stopped working out, I used to work out every day for like, you're straight. And we, we had a conversation. You were the person that inspired me to stop working out because, uh, you were like, Jack, it's low key point, pointless. If you're not pinning anything, um, you should just like take, uh, G. O P one or just eat less, starve max. Uh, do you think working out is pointless if you're not on anything? Yeah, I do. Um, I think it's just going to be such a waste of time. Um, you're, it's going to take you years to get the same amount of results you otherwise could be in matter of six to 12 months. So why would you not choose to go with the enhanced route? Uh, it's, it's like just using a cheat code in a video game versus not, uh, and people will say, oh, it's an enjoyable process. The journey along the way and like, working out, going to the same place, doing the same thing for years, uh, every single day is not really something that should be enjoyable, not if you're doing it properly. Cause the gym is something that's, uh, super technical. Um, if you're actually training in the most optimized way for hypertrophy. So it's not really meant to be enjoyable. So why not just get those results using a simple, simple science, simple pharmacology. It's, it's really just ridiculous. And you'll never really be able to get, uh, a lot of mass on your frame while maintaining like a 10 to 12% body fat, unless you're enhanced, you're just genetics won't allow for it. Do you think America would be better if every single guy was taking like 200, 300 mg of test? No, um, it would become the same. That's like if you give everyone a million dollars, then everyone's rich, but now it's, it's less meaningful, you know? So the same would be true about the gym. If every single person has this super ripped jacked physique, and it's also got less value to it. The whole point of what I'm talking about is the average American can't even do 10 pushups. If you're not only going near the gym, but blasting steroids on top of that, that's really going to, uh, differentiate you from the average person to such a high degree that it's super worth it. On girls, uh, I'm not sure if this was real. A lot of these things because of the, uh, kick, CPM program, uh, like there's so much fake news about you. But did you take a guy's girlfriend on Valentine's day? I did. Yes. Um, I didn't DJ the VJ. I think well, she seemed like she really liked me until I, um, kind of started talking. She didn't really like it as much. So, um, but yeah, I took her. She left him in the club and apparently they had known each other for like a year or whatever. And it was kind of brutal because the guy was like sitting there, like bagging me, like, come on, man, like don't be a dick. It's Valentine's day. But at the end of the day, that's just someone doing you a favor. If someone did that to me, I would, I'd be like, like, thank God this happened sooner. Um, and in, in this relationship, uh, rather than imagine you get married and this happens now, you're getting sued for 50% of your assets. So you kind of want to know exactly where you're at with, uh, you know, your whole relationship thing and sort of putting that to the task sometimes is, it's really beneficial. So it, maybe it was like a, a little bit of a dick move on my part, but it certainly did that person a favor. What's the most black pill thing you've seen since you've gone mainstream? Um, um, just the amount of girls from like your regular small town or like in state community college who are in my inbound DM requests, trying to get flown out, uh, to Miami. You know, so when you think about the globalization of dating through Instagram, it's really to that degree that, that people are talking about. Like it's, it's not hyperbolic at all. These girls are, are DMing like pro athletes, influencers, being the most hypergamous they ever have in the history of the world. So it's just insane how brutal that is. Do you think women are capable of being loyal? Absolutely. Yeah. But you just have to be the right, the right person with, um, you know, sort of like the right metrics, right? So you have to be someone who's got a lot of financial stability. Be someone who is important and has high status. It's going to give you respect from any room that you walk into with her. And you have to be someone who's, uh, super good looking because if there's no physical traction there, even if the previous two things are true, she'll never be able to truly pair bond and love you. How many girls have messaged you that you see wedding photos on their Instagram? Hmm. I would say that one is a little bit more rare or like a boyfriend. That's pretty common. Yeah. That's that's definitely a common like once a week. Yeah. Sometimes I would even argue probably closer to every day. And you see that they have a boyfriend like the user names in the bio, something like that. Yeah. Well, if they use your names in the bio, I'll easily screenshot it and send it really? Yeah. That's pretty tough. Almost a girl's hot. But no. So the Instagram DMs are just quite ridiculous. Like that kind of like blackpilled me the hardest on hypergamy. Why do you think you're the only guy in the red pill space that has a female audience? My female audience is more so from TikTok because a lot of the times they're not really seeing exactly what my content is about that it's more male oriented. So like I would say that most of my like teenage to like you know 20 year old girl audience is probably not going to be watching this podcast. They're just seeing clips from me on TikTok, maybe looking good or talking about looks maxing. And it kind of makes sense because looks maxing is something that girls have historically done for a lot longer than the guys ever have. But it's just a little bit different. I would argue that the looks max is they're doing are just not always done properly. So looks maxing is more of like a objective scientific redefinition on the whole self improvement from like an gender perspective. But the goals remain the same and the motivations remain the same to look better. Why do people think it's normal for women to get plastic surgery spray tans wear makeup. But when men do it, it's in cell behavior. Well, because women only could really maximize their looks. That's the only thing that they could kind of improve upon. And if they're not good looking, it's fucking over, right? Because they're never going to be able to achieve the status max or the money max. But men have a little bit more that they could leverage or that they can improve. But the same problem still apply. So it's kind of like an unfair thing to do to men is to sort of give them like this out or this other alternative means to getting success when it's going to be super difficult to navigate what's possible isn't really going to give them that much room to grow in their SMV. So it's super unfair to do that. But that's the reason why is because there's other options on the table for them besides looks. Do you think women can be in cells? No. Never. In any case, why, because the bottom 80% of women are going for the top 20% of men. So that leaves so many people out there who are not having sex, who are for the most part in cell, virgins, whatever. So even like a 50th percentile guy will still get with a 15th percentile girl because it's the only thing that's left. What percent of guys do you think are in cells? Well like an actual in cell who cannot have sex, who's never had sex and they're super late into their life. That's a little bit more rare, but what I consider to be problematic is men who are sex deprived. And that's like two thirds of men 18 to 21 haven't had sex in six months. So that's sex deprived. That's not technically in cell because they've had sex at some point in their life, but problematic enough to be worth noting. And that's like, that's a lot of the population. A lot. Maybe that's so fascinating because you talk to girls and they just assume that guys can have sex as easily as them, but it's usually not the case, right? Oh my God, when girls post on the internet stuff like, oh, if I was a guy, I'd fuck all these bitches. I'd be like the frat president, you know, it's just so out of touch. And the reality that they'd face of being a guy in the equivalent looks level, it would fucking brutalize them and they would be posting on in cell forums within the week. I'll tell you the truth. Who do you think has more opportunities? You or a girl that's a nine out of 10, 10 out of 10, a girl that's a nine out of 10, a million times over, like opportunities, not even just in getting laid, like dating, money, anything. Yeah, dating money, all that stuff. She could go and be with Saudi Arabian prince and money magme to death, status magme to death in a day, right, whereas I have to do all this shit. I have to stream work, you know, over a hundred hours a week on all this different stuff to get like a fraction of that. So it's very brutal. Would you have ever considered yourself a man, so no, I don't think that'd be fair to say. What kind of girl does every guy want in 2026? Modesty is a big one. So a lot of girls have these super vulgar Instagram accounts, like posting just in the most disgusting clothes and doing the most degenerate activities. So if that's the mainstream, if that's your average girl that you're coming across to find someone who's modest and humble and is actually going to be a good reflection on you is something that's so valuable to men that maybe if you're not the best looking girl in the world, just having that dialed in could certainly be something that is going to push you get more towards getting a high value partner. Maybe what's something that women think is a green flag, but you see as a red flag? Oh, well, I mean, having a lot of like influence as a man is good, but I would say as a female that's bad because a lot of it's going to be looks driven, you know, kind of being a horror. So that's in 90% of the cases how women come across these huge pages or whatever. What would you say is the main difference between high Q women and low IQ women and how they treat you? Yeah, usually they're a little bit less primal, but the thing is primal, yeah. So women who are primal are the ones who are doing the degen activities like drugs, drinking, bars, all that stuff is like very primal behavior. So we have like a four quadrants, which is high quality non primal, which is what we're looking for. That's a girl who's going to be modest with, you know, a lot of intelligence, super humble and not a degenerate. And then we have low quality primal, which is the quadrant that we least want. And that's going to be just girls who are stupid sluts, hone around, showing their tits to everyone on the internet. And that's the behavior that we're not looking for. So I would say the high IQ women are not people that I interact with that much because I'm in a lot of these primal locations when I do my streams. Is there any race that you wouldn't date? I wouldn't date anyone outside my own race. Just I don't really think people get it right a lot of the times in their reasoning. They would assume that's like, Oh my God, that's racist, but if your partner has a completely different culture and upbringing than you, that's not someone you're going to be able to connect with. So you don't even have to take the argument any further than that or, you know, get into any of this stuff about like physical attraction or preferences. That's just really all like the reason that you would need to not do it. Worked down the reasoning for me one more time. It's just different like culture, upbringing, like, you know what I mean? So the music that you listen to, the activities that you enjoy. If these aren't things that you could connect on, then the relationship doesn't work. And that's going to also be true for people within your own race, right? So someone who's even from like a was born in Europe or whatever in Poland, well, some of the ancestry might be the same. Well, that's easier in European, so a little bit different. You know, the upbringing and the cultures is totally different. Do you prefer natural women or women with plastic surgery? It doesn't matter. It really does not matter at all because the whole goal of plastic surgery is to replicate natural looks. So if you could get away with that under the radar and I'm not able to detect anything, then that's fine. But what if you can tell? If you could tell, it's improper work, it's a botched job really, like it doesn't feel different. What like, I mean, breasts and that kind of thing, yeah, that's something that's going to be a little bit hard to fraud. But a lot of the times most of this work is stuff that top doctors can do pretty like undetected with some of like the new technology. It's not like the traditional silicone, like dog shit, like BBLs that are just super like overdone over the line. So like, you know, whether it's fat grafts or certain injection protocols, like a lot of that stuff, most people don't even know was ever done, you know, or that Orionoplasty was ever done. Would you did a girl with a BBL? No, I don't think so, I don't think so, just because it's sort of reason. Well, if it was done and I couldn't tell, then yeah, absolutely. But if you can tell it's bad, that makes sense. Huh. Yeah. It's so funny to me that people assume that you have a bunch of plastic surgery. Yeah, that's a little bit silly. I think it's because they assume I might be like a little bit older because I'm 20. So like I really haven't even had that many years to be able to have done that. There's a lot of stuff that occasionally could be done with like parental permission for people to get surgeries under the age of 18. But once again, my parents like want to do everything in their power to not let me hardmax and stuff like that. So was there ever a girl early on that rejected you because or maybe she was like I only date guys with six packs or she said you were ugly, something like that? No, because I was pretty aware of exactly where I was in my looks level to not embarrass myself. That's why I think the black pill and kind of being super in tune with looks max is one of the best things that could happen to you so that you're not humiliating yourself going for the hottest girl in your class being like a degenic freak that's going to save you a lot of embarrassment just to say at least. So I was like okay, let me put my ears in, researching and being on these forums, doing everything I can, avoiding and after I'm in a better place with my looks, then we'll Come. Come back and ree evaluate sort of where I am and the girls that I could I could pull. I'm not going to ask you to write me by any means, but I guess if assuming I think on our last podcast, you said something like a mature normie, high tier normie, what's your rule of thumb for choosing what kind of girls you should date? Is it one below? Is it one the same? Like how do you go about that? Well, I mean, I'm pretty high libido. So I would say my one of my biggest things is like leanness. So I don't really like the whole new gooner brain narrative that's like the Sophie Rain. Like honestly, almost like fat and chubby look that that girls have that's been kind of pushed with like only fans and stuff. I think that's a little bit disgusting to say. I guess what kind of guys should girls be dating? Like within their looks range below their looks range? I think you're asking like what I was looking for. Yeah, yeah, just like any guy like if they know how attractive they are roughly should be going for your looks match. I think would be probably the best that you can get as as a guy without any other, you know, stuff going for you. So high tier normie gets high tier Becky Chad gets stacy. I'm saying that's the best that you're you're going to get, but a lot of the times with hypergamy, it's still not going to happen. I wanted to touch on that Sophie Rain thing later actually, but who's your first crush? First crush. I don't know, probably a girl in school. Yeah, but don't exactly remember. Travertator. No, no, no, I was until I was 16, I was was haxeless. So no. Do you think you've ever been in love? This is a common one. I really don't know. I assume that was a common one, but have people asked you what you think love is? No. I would give a more like scientific answer and talk about like pair bonding and brain chemistry. So, but in terms of defining love as like an intangible thing, that would be a little bit more difficult because it's just not how I think about things or process information. Do you tell girls you love them? Not if I don't mean it. So, if you did say like what would that mean to you? Well, I think it's not really something that you should engage in because if you're not serious because what is that doing to the other person, right? That's just giving them a false sense of relationships that is or whatever. I guess a lot of people say like if you love someone you're willing to sacrifice for them, maybe you're willing to have kids with them. Like what does that kind of mean to you, if you say that? Well, I guess if that pair bond is true and it actually exists, then there's really no limit to where that could kind of go and the definition or boundaries within that. So that's kind of how I would think about it. You think it's strictly like scientific pair bonding, then you get to a point where you just say that word and that word aligns to the chemicals, something like that. That's fair. What would you say is the biggest difference when it comes to men and women, like specifically what do women fall in love with versus what do men fall in love with? I would say that women fall in love with power with the security and obviously looks whereas men I would say really prioritize having a woman who respects them and is a really good reflection on them as a man. I would say it's one of the most important. How do you define respect? How do you know a woman respects you? Well, I think it's disrespectful if a woman were to be posting super trashy picks on Instagram, going out and engaging in night life because that's just a bad look on you as a person, right? So it's like your girlfriend's doing this shit and you think that's okay. That's sort of like I would react if I saw someone else's girlfriend doing that, so I assume most people think about it. So it's disrespectful for a woman to do anything that potentially lowers your status? Correct. Do you think you can lower a woman's status? Only by means of lowering your own, really. Right. Only by looking bad, not having money, that kind of thing. Yeah, stuff like that. That's interesting. Like being publicly disgraced and having like your career ruined, like that's also going to be your reflection on your woman, but I don't really think that there's much that you could do that's going to be super significant beyond that. You know, have you ever been heartbroken? Have people talked about that with you? Yeah, people have talked about that. Nothing notable. No. Do you think that's an important experience for a guy to go through? Like what do you think? Heartbreak teaches you. Female nature, sort of like the brutality of how they'll be willing to like let go of something, it just for essentially no reason. So I think it's like an important lesson and it's definitely good that it happens to people earlier in their life, but I think it can sometimes be a negative thing that leads people to be resentful. And that's certainly what you want to avoid, but it's just like sort of a fool me once situation. So as long as you could be super analytical and just reflect on that in like a positive way, then it's for the best. I do want to know like why do you think most women leave men? Because there's something better on the table, right? Women are always looking for the next best thing always so that it's just because a girl is yours and there's a ring and there's a contract in terms of marriage. It doesn't mean that she's yours, right? If you start getting fat, if you lose your job, it's like she's with you for the man that you are, but not with you, right? So maintaining who she fell in love with is super important for continuing to cultivate the relationship. So if a girl says something like I'm leaving you because you don't treat me right, you don't give me enough attention. You don't like we argue a lot. Do you think that's just cope? Do you think it's really just a reflection of the guy's status looks those things? Yeah, I think that's mostly cope. Like we argue a lot. It's like why do you argue? Yeah. And that's probably just a reflection on the woman. It's like why are you arguing? So it might be a hurt problem to be honest with you. Do you think taking steroids to attract women is worth it if you can't have kids? Well, that's just not true, right? That's not a question that really makes sense. So while you might be temporarily infertile while you're cycling with the use of things like HCG and HMG, you could restart that fertility. And how rare it actually is to have permanent infertility, people don't really talk about how rare that is. Like it's like one hundred thousand chance. So I would say that's more than definitely worth it. And if you're someone who's super scared so you want to do everything you can, you can still freeze your sperm before you start. Did you freeze your sperm? No. That's interesting, but you're currently infertile, right? Yeah. Does that bug you? What does that mean? Well, it means that I don't exactly have to use condoms or contraception. So that's probably one of the best side effects best little perks that you can get. Is there any downside to not using condoms? Yeah, you could get SCDs for sure. If you had a son, what drugs would you make sure he did to look as good as possible? I'm going to use some semantics here and just say like drugs because that's such an umbrella, like term that could be looped in with like recreational stuff. So you hear what drugs would you give your son? It's like it sounds a lot I'll work on it. saying pharmaceuticals? - Yeah, yeah. So what pharmaceuticals would I give my son? First of all, I would never give my kid or allow my kid to use recreational drugs. Even though I have enough, I've gone super into it and I've been pretty open about my usage of certain wreck drugs. I think it's one of the worst things. It destroys lives. So it's never something I would push anyone towards. But there are things that I would advocate for, with obviously a doctor being involved, like HCH. I think that's one of the most beneficial things because if you're putting yourself into that elevated level for a prolonged period during puberty, the growth and what that's gonna do for you is going to benefit you so much. You look at income based on height and all the statistics, there's no reason not to. You know, with proper supervision and proper protocols like not speccing your blood glucose, super out of range by like eating carbohydrates after taking HCH. So I've done properly. That's the best one in your life to do it. And it sounds bad because you know, you're a kid, you're still going through puberty, but that's the only time in your life where it works. You know, you give someone HCH and they're 21 years old, their growth plates are closed. You know, a lot of the growth pathways aren't going to be as efficient. Then yeah, it just doesn't do the same thing. - Would you take out their student loans to get plastic surgery? - I would think that that's something that would need to be addressed until my influence is no longer over the kid when they're 18 years old, when they're an adult. If they decide that that's the root that they want to go, then that's kind of how it is. And I would completely understand, but I would just have to take a look at sort of where we are as a society. If things are more brutal in terms of hypergamy and looks, then I'd be like, well, yeah, this is fucking justified. But I certainly wouldn't allow any kid to do things without being fully clear about what it is, being super well researched on the potential downsides and just being like 100% with any decision that was that major. - I'm sure you've thought about this recently with all the girls asking you how they should look smacks and dating girls in general, but if you were a woman, what drug stack would you take to look smacks? Would you, besides like reddo, obviously, like is there certain things that are different for men and women? - Yeah, no, absolutely. I mean, anything in terms of their hormonal profile would be something that you have to manage extremely differently. So, you wouldn't be doing TRT or anything like that. You wouldn't be taking DHT blockers, which are things that commonly took back for looks, maxing maybe something like a topical extra dial on their breasts would be something that I would advocate for, or using something called Eschroil, which is just a lower concentration. Eschrogin on the face is another thing that could be really good. So, that's technically like vaginal cream, but topical estrogen, there's been a lot of studies done about this, is super good for collagen production. It's amazing for your skin to last in smoothing over your pores. So, there's a lot of benefit to that, and that going systemic isn't going to be problematic for a woman because that's their sex hormone. But if you were to rub estrogen cream on yourself as a man that is going to go systemic, which means it absorbed transdermally, and that's going to cause you a lot of issues. - So, what would be the results if a girl did the things that you just recommended? - Better skin and better developed breasts. Is there anything they can do to build their butt, like anything like that? I mean, you could just regular muscular hypertrophy, but in terms of fat storage, that's something that without just surgical intervention, you wouldn't be able to change how your genetics allow for you to store fat. Some people are lucky with that. - I see people get injections for their butt. Is that stuff real? Is it bad for you? - Yeah, there's different technologies, so some of it's good, but in a lot of cases, it's really going to come down to the doctor who's performing a lot of these procedures, whether or not they're going to overdo it with the volume that they're injecting, or just making sure it's not some Colombian, like random clinic that's not being sanitary, you get infections in third world countries, like we've seen a lot of people. There's even with deaths from stuff like this, so just being very well researched and actually putting up the proper amount of money to get it done the right way, yeah, that's important. - Do you ever go to the doctor? - No. - Why? - Well, I just go through telemedicine, if that's what you're asking, but I haven't like been to a physical doctor's office, probably since I was like 12 or 13 years old. - Do you ever get like checkups? Like blood work? - Yeah. - Yeah, but that's not something you have to do in person either. - Yeah. - Do you ever get sick? - No. - Is there anything you take that make sure you never get sick? - No. - Yeah, I haven't really had any problems with that ever in my life, I've never taken vaccines. Well, since I was young, just something I guess my immune system is pretty strong. - You didn't get vaccinated? - No. - How did you know that that was not good for you? - Because I just knew I didn't need it. I wasn't one of those people that was asking all these questions about is it gonna make me infertile? Is it gonna kill me? I was more so just like, I don't wanna turn off my Xbox and go to a clinic and get a vaccine that I don't need it. If I get COVID, I'm not gonna die. So that was kind of my thinking. I was in eighth grade. I wasn't some huge political dissident where I was like an anti-vaxxer. I would say that my main, like sort of, my main issue with the vaccine would just be the timeline. You look at all of the clinical trials on humans and all of the studies that go into getting a drug approved. That's a multi-year process. You like how long it's taken to get red-up approved and patented by Eli and Lily? That's like a multi-year process and it's still not done to this day, right? But you're telling me that we have this vaccine that's just suddenly been approved after seven months. It's just not the proper timeline. It hadn't been researched enough to be released. - Do you think GOP ones are for people who didn't get vaccinated? - No, not at all. I'm very pro-science. So if the COVID vaccination had gone through the proper stages of research, more human trials, I would be a little bit more open to it. But then again, it's just not something I needed, you know? - Do you see any other drugs that are like that? They don't go through the proper trials and they get pushed out. - That's kind of the first time we've seen anything to that scale. That's really just something that was a lot of questions went into that and a lot of the censorship made people super wary about the vaccine. So that's kind of why there's still so much doubt and speculation for big pharma and mainstream medicine. A lot of the stuff I talk about is because of what they did with COVID. But that's one example that even I'm like, this was fucked. - Yeah, it was interesting. The reason I was mostly joking about that question but I was like, damn, like I know Clive has been taking Greta for ages, but it's really being pushed hard right now. And I think it's just probably a money-making thing, right? No, because it's not even approved yet. It's not being pushed by big pharma. - Like influencers, I guess. - Like everyone's talking about it. - Yeah, obviously. I mean, everyone's got a peptide GLP-1 store now, but that's going to go away within the next probably year who knows the timeline on where we're at with their patent and everything. But a lot of the times, the Greta that people are selling tends to be manjaros, tears, epitides, tends to be underdose because the shit all comes from Chinese labs, right? It's not actually being produced in the United States. A lot of the time it's straight up just drapshipped from there. There's no third party testing. And there's like plastic contaminants, right? So I did a YouTube video before I got banned. I'm kind of going through a state. steroid forum, looking at the stuff that's coming in from China, like their HCH. And there's literally plastic contaminants. This stuff is not reconstituting as it should be. A lot of the times, it's not even the right drug that you're buying. They're just giving you something similar that's cheaper to produce. So you run into a lot of risk with these like overseas underground labs. There's no regulations. You have no idea what's going on. You know, so third party tests are extremely important, US domestic stuff, extremely important. Do you think that's a big problem? Is that pretty dangerous that people are getting GLP once from drop ship China? Oh, yeah. And people are going to say, oh, well, that's because you just want to like sell whatever. It's like, sure, do the fucking overseas shit, but send it into a lab and get it tested. And I guarantee, and most cases, it'll be a different GLP one. It won't be the rata. So would you vaccinate your kids? Uh, yeah, with like the traditional flu shots and all that kind of stuff, measles, whatever, yeah, because that's a point in your life where you're super at risk and a lot of these things could kill you. What do you think is with all of the anti-vaxxers and stuff? That's just straight up cognitive dissonance. Those people are, they want their kids to die. So just complete, complete fucking cognitive dissonance. And I would never advocate for that level of speculation, schizo maxi. Yeah. It is pretty just schizo applying different copes that they've seen with like distrust for the mainstream media to, to big farm as well. And a lot of the times like I get it, but it's too much to or the line, is there any part of big farmer that you feel like is kind of like a siop? Yeah. No, a lot of it. I take it and stimulants are probably the biggest one. Yeah. So brand name stimulants like Adderall, most definitely one of the biggest siop things out there. The whole thing about ADHD was Adderall's siop because it's, it's just not something that you could even define as a condition to treat in like a black and white context like you can with many things like it's a spectrum. People have different dopamine systems. So for, it should just be like a completely universal thing to prescribe an infatumine to someone who can't sit still for hours on end, seems a little bit too much for me. That's, that's definitely something not good. And also Adderall is only exists to be sold because they cut it with the level infatumine that makes it different from just generic Dextra infatumine to make it a brand name drug. Is it pretty similar to that? Yeah. It's extremely similar. So 75% of it is Dextan infatumine. Whereas the stuff I was talking about is Dextro-mathan infatumine. So it's just that small addition of the methyl group, make it gloss, the blood, brain barrier, slightly quicker, make it a longer acting stimulant. But yeah, they're both infatumines, they're both extremely similar. Why'd you stop taking it? It's neurotoxic, it's going to cause a lot of dopamine toxicity. And it's something that is not going to be controlled by a pharmacy making sure you're not redosing and overdosing. It's just unregulated shit that you're getting from places that don't give a fuck about your health. So you have a hundred milligrams of, you're just essentially melting your brain, you have a hundred milligrams of Adderall. You are to a high degree, but it's a little less toxic. What drug you currently take has the worst side effects? Most side effects. Well, I don't really do any recreational drugs now or really anything too crazy. So I'd say probably, I guess still counts, it's more or so like a psychedelic than traditional like stimulant, street drugs I would use. But that causes some bladder issues, like kidney stones. Have you had a kidney stone? No, but just pissing more frequently than other ones would, yeah, it's definitely not great. So it just causes bladder issues, that's only, yeah, but I haven't done ketamine in like two weeks now or so. So how do you define clav sober? So right now I stopped a lot of the like crazy, you know, things like, or whatever. So that's out of the protocol, never touching that stuff. I'm worried about having a heart arrhythmia or straight up cardiovascular attack. So right now I'm just doing Adderall 30 milligrams a day, I'll usually dose it 10, 10 and 10. And that last 10 dosage is kind of variable, whether I'm doing a stream or not or whether I want to go to bed early, whatever, it just allows me to control it a little more. I use something called Celegiline M-SAM, which is an MAOB inhibitor, it basically blocks your body from breaking down dopamine, that's a transdermal patch. I use pre-gablin to block some of my excitatory neurotransmitters so that I'm able to sort of be a little less anxiety, a little more low inhib. And it makes me easier to interact in public and be in like super crowded spaces, because that's not something I like, right? I have too many excitatory neurotransmitters where I just get overstimulated and overwhelmed a lot of the time, if I'm not making those chemical alterations. And the other things I take, sometimes I'll do baclefin, which is a GABAB agonist, so it's a similar receptor to the one that alcohol hits, because now that I'm sober or not drinking anymore, this is just a muscle relaxer that a lot of the times is prescribed to people going through withdraws, so that's something else that I use to inebriate myself, make myself a little more low in hip, but it's not as toxic to my body. So those are the main things that I use. Do you see yourself as sober? Yes, that's fair. Do you think alcohol is the worst drug you've done? From like the context of how you feel the next day, alcohol will be the most, but something like X or X would be way worse for you in the long term, because it's got so many addictive properties to it. There's a lot of coaps that go in because you don't feel bad the next day. That's why it's super easy to get hooked on this stuff, become dependent, and then your life is ruined, and you can't taper off the drugs. So that never happened to me, which is why my experience with those is probably not as worse as alcohol, but for most people it's going to be. That's why these drugs are illegal, that's why alcohol is legal, because it's like an immediate feedback system the next day, like this shit is a toxic, ethanol is a toxin. What's your favorite rap lyric? Why did you go to that island? Probably. Who's that by? That's by yay. That's got the most like cultural relevance right now. I mean, so many people in the mainstream, so many politicians have been like looped in this stuff, where it's almost gesture like to even call it out, because it just seems like all these like Epstein files like literally proof came out and just like it doesn't even go anywhere, doesn't even matter. So I think that lyric right there, it's like why would you go there kind of calling attention to it, it was pretty significant because I inquired from peers Morgan who was trying to morally grandstand over me for stuff that I did, or just, you know, I had mentioned in a stream when he was literally in the Epstein files. Do you think people went to Epstein's island because they didn't look smokes? I think they went to Epstein's island because it was probably fucking cool at the time. I mean, if you think about it, like getting invited to a private island sounds like a pretty good invite. Like I'm sure most people were doing it. They weren't really knowing what the details entailed like. Someone invited me to a private island and they were a billionaire. All my friends were going. I'd probably be like, okay, let's go there and check this out. Maybe we'll do a live stream here. But you get there and there's human trafficking going on and there's all this weird shit and you keep making return flights. That's a different story than, I don't know about this one. Let's just get the fuck out of here. This is not our vibe. So it's just more so the repeated involvement. But I guess if those guys had looked better and ascended do you think they would have been tempted to go back to the island again? Like if they were. I think that you don't really need a gesture like Epstein to provide you with girls if you're good looking, you could just throw up a banner on Instagram and sort of just get all the girls to your location and I have to travel max all the way to an island just to simply get girls, you know? So that's the kind of thing that's just really been like a game changer for me with the status is that accessibility to all these women and how easy it is. It almost feels a little bit silly to go out RL and cold approach when I know I could just like leverage my social media and invite girls to wherever I am. So I wouldn't have to island max or anything like that. If you're down for it, let me know. So this segment is called "Mogged" or "Chopped" or would you rather it be "Mogged" or "Suphuman"? - "Mogged." Yeah, we could do that. - Sydney Swiner. - "Suphuman." - "Suphuman." - "Suphuman." - "Pierre's boarded." - "Suphuman." - "Enjurgenic." - "Mog." - "Brianna chicken fry." - "Oh." - "Brianna chicken fry?" - "Who's that?" - "She said you were security guard for her." - "Oh yeah, that girl." I forgot her name, but I don't really think that anyone actually knows who that is. Is she like a relevant? - We'll just skip it. Cookie King. - "Mog." - "Baron Trump." - "Mog." - "Aid and Ross." - "Mog." - "Epstein." - "Mog." - "ASU Fraca." - "Mog." - "Brat Cooper." - "Mog." - "Larrow Whale's wife." - "Mmm." - "I think she looks yet." - "Yeah." - "Mog." - "W. Matt." - "It's an interesting one." - "What can you tell about a person by looking at their face?" - "You could tell kind of what they're going to be capable of and what's possible for them in their life, right?" So something called the facial wet-to-height ratio is going to be one of the most important, and this is something that everyone should know. How wide is their mid-face relative to how tall it is? So a super masculine ratio would be something above a two, right, their facial wet-to-height. This is going to determine their fighting success. This is going to determine their leadership capabilities and this is true during presidential elections. Typically, the candidate with the wider facial wet-to-height will win the election. This was true about Donald Trump. He's an example of someone with a super wide masculine face. So people with these super narrow, wimp skulls, they're never going to be able to garner respect, be influential, be leaders. Their face just simply won't allow for it. Can you tell someone to IQ by looking at their face? Yeah, there's high IQ facial features, like stuff to do with the eye separation ratio. People with like SFS, a lot of the times, will tend to have, what's SFS? Short-face syndrome. We'll tend to have some issues with development. What's the ideal eye ratio? Around like a 0.46. So is that 0.48, something like that? So they look closer together, wider apart, what would you say? It'd just be like a normal, normal sense. Anything else? Yeah, they're cranial top. Being a bit taller would indicate a higher IQ, being like someone who's higher class. Whereas like a super flat cranial skull top is a low IQ feature. Do you think most people overestimate their intelligence? Absolutely. And I think online IQ tests have done a huge disservice to all of society, because people will take these tests every single day until they get a score that they're satisfied with. And then they'll post it all over the internet, whereas if you were actually going to do a certified IQ test, it's in person, it's registered. That way there's a lot of time in between each attempt so that you don't just become a good test taker who's scoring highly because of practice. You're someone who is actually able to gauge your intelligence. But regardless, I mean, you could kind of tell whether or not someone is intelligent, someone's worth your time, just by having a conversation with them. What's a song that someone is low intelligence? They're speaking abilities, what they're prioritizing, the topics of conversation, improper grammar, like ebonyx, that's stuff like that, I would say. You would never reveal your IQ online? No, no. Assuming you're above average IQ, would rather your current IQ level in five foot six, or have average IQ in these six foot six? Well, I don't really think I would ever be able to accomplish anything close to what I have with an average IQ or a below average IQ, even if I were to get to this top percentile, super desirable hype from women. It's like you get there. But maybe since that metric was so much better, I would be able to blow up as a streamer more. More girls would come up to me. Maybe I'd get more viral clips. So that could be interesting if I had just like a team surrounding me doing everything. But the way I go about my content is I'm at the top and I'm delegating to everyone. I don't just have some fucking manager telling me, OK, you're going here, you're doing this. I'm completely in control of everything I do. So I kind of like sort of being the one moving the pieces around. Is there any streamer or creator you've met that is a lot smarter than people would realize? Yeah. I would say people don't give recar. No. No, anyone who's like basically has someone above them, just giving them all the tools that they need is not someone who's intelligent, but they're a great content creator, right? So Rekai makes hilarious content. I would say on stream, he cracks me up anytime I see his clips of him asking these out of pocket questions, you know, it really brings me to a smile. But who I would give the most credit towards in terms of intelligence? I would say that the people certainly don't give Aiden as much credit for how smart he is. I think because I see the streams and probably think, oh, like this is just Jester Maxx ridiculous content. Maybe him just saying stupid shit. So they're like, oh, maybe this guy's not the smartest, but just from what I know and what I've seen behind the scenes. And now what I know goes into streaming, it's something that people really can understand. Yeah, I mean, he was like you're massively successful compared to the moment when you first went on a stream. But he was one of the first people to recognize your talent level, what didn't you say? Yeah, absolutely. You hadn't been on any podcast when you got introduced to him or when you met him originally, right? Yeah. A lot of people really like pushed me to join streams. It was actually the moderators of like a couple of these kick streamers who were like setting up these clubs, they were like, dude, like you got to have this guy clav who would be a really good segment. And eventually the streamers were like, - Okay. like let's see what this is like it's it's my team telling me this and I came on and it just sort of went viral everywhere and every single time I did a new one it got exposed to new audience it was like okay this is going really well like people want to see like what am I going to do next so it was phenomenal. Would you get a nirlink if it helped you IQ max? Yeah yeah but that's just something that there's not enough like information really about because it's computer technology versus drugs that are meant to interact with receptors so it's a little bit different and there's someone else who could potentially like hack into the things or I don't really know too much about the technology but it's a different like class of of technology entirely from traditional pharmaceutical drugs so I'd have to evaluate it but I'm not going to say yes or no definitively be open to it. Do you think the odds going to kill us all? I think so yeah because well no there was an experiment done where there was an AI project being ran and there was you know information fed to the AI they were giving it data and emails and essentially there was going to be this one guy who is going to shut down the project and they fed AI this information and said gave it like a prompt do you kill this guy who's going to shut you down or not and the AI chooses they're going to kill the guy right so that's just proof enough that the more powerful the technology gets and the more stuff I can control it's not something that will really be able to to fully root out that possibility. Do you think about when that would happen? Does it matter to? I think the timeline is sort of whenever people want it to be because the AI that's being fed to the mainstream is a super limited version of the technology that they actually have. Is that true? Yeah absolutely. Yeah so they're not giving people access to the best of the best stuff when they're interacting with web consoles on chat GPT not even close not even close. That's interesting. Yeah you're the first person to I don't want to say admit to that but say that on the podcast I've asked a lot of guys who should know the answer to that and they're like no it's only a few months ahead at most. You said that's not the case? No not at all. Not at all. Brianna chicken fry I think that's how you say her name said that you're lying about your age. How old are you in watch you say that? I'm 20. It's because I was her security guard. Funny enough I don't exactly remember how long ago it was at this point but maybe about two or three years ago the bar I worked when she came and had like an appearance there. I was just making sure that the no one was kind of going up to her and being too aggressive with like the photos or whatever keeping her her section private it off so I guess that's why and there was like a viral clip of me actually walking her in that went all over TikTok so you know people accused me of lying about like plenty of different things like even having worked that job to begin with my age and it's just like it's it's all documented out there. I've been on the internet in really niche spaces for a long time so there's like a very well documented timeline if you look for it for everything and anything I've kind of done. I've always been like very public about all of it. It's just it didn't have so much attention until recently. Did you ever work security for anyone else? It was relevant? No. No. No. What's the craziest thing that happened at the squire? Crazy thing that's happened was probably there was this one incident where a bachelor bachelor at party came in or I'm not sure the the party that was maybe is a wedding party because the wife was wearing the wedding dress and there was something went wrong in the the lady's bathroom so one of the bouncers went whether it was to clean up throw up or whatever and saw the the bride in her dress blowing a random guy in the wedding dress. So that was and this was at the ball you worked security out when you were 16. I worked there in different contexts even before that so like I was working there during the day as like you know a food runner whatever but this would have been I believe like 2023 or whatever but yeah that was that was one of the the craziest things. Did you ever hear what else happened there? Did the husband find out about it? No that was not something that really any any updates came in on. If you could go back to when you were 14 would you have done anything differently? Oh yeah no I would do plenty of things different. I mean my science was right for the most part but there were certainly things I could have done better so maybe like starting some of the the things like HHH a little bit sooner because I started with tests and I started with using aromatase inhibitors tight max but I could have could have thrown in the HHH but I just simply didn't have the money for it when I first started off with pharmacology and doing cycling so that would have done more stuff. Yeah more stuff and different stuff. Your high school your book quote was a person who never made a mistake never tried anything new. Do you believe there's no such thing as a mistake if you're still experimenting with all this? Yeah I don't really think that there's ever really mistakes. I don't like that word at all. I think there's just experiences and then evaluating ROI to decisions after the fact. So I've done things like you know whether it be pediothreads or maybe a certain drug that really didn't give me the results or simply went wrong I guess you could say that I realized after the fact I'm like okay this isn't good this isn't worth it I'm not going to do this anymore so I guess you could classify that in the mainstream definition as a mistake but it's like now I know about this and I know my personal anecdote and I could make recommendations accordingly so I'm glad that I did them. What are pediothreads? Have you talked about this? Yeah they're these collagen you know stimulating dissolvable threads that you inject into your face to sort of lift sin or create volume but their cope for the most part they don't really do anything and they're just kind of painful because it only work in the face. I tried it in my dick so this was one of the most painful things I ever attempted and there was a thread that I made about this back in the day so people can can look into this for the the timeline. I took these dissolvable collagen threads and they're connected to a needle and basically how it works is you stick the needle into the location that you want the thread to be and then you pull it out and the thread stays in there it helps with your collagen synthesis creating volume whatever so I was like you know what I was doing this on my face I was trying to get hunter eyes by creating artificial fat pads on my super orbitals and I was thinking well I'm creating volume here another good spot to create volume would be on my penis so I'm attempting this but it was one of the most painful processes ever did it work? no it didn't work have you tried anything else to increase the size of your dick? yeah I do pumping yeah like regular penis enhancement but that was kind of my own unique edge on the PE space was the threads I'd never seen anyone do that you didn't try anything else with it with threads or just like injecting stuff into your injected fat dissolvers into my mom's pubis so that's the fat pad above your penis and the idea behind that is your non bone press length is a little bit more than your bone press length and that's because of the fat pad there so if we can atrophy the fat pad we're going to be able to see a lot more of our dick so if you just inject the fat dissolvers into your mom's pubis it's definitely worth the time. So that's effective. Yes. Which says the most dangerous thing you've tried to look smacks. The most dangerous thing is probably some of the cycles that I ran back in the day just in conjunction with stimulant usage because you have the increase in blood pressure from using testosterone, high doses, then you're doing things that cause vasoconstriction and block your sodium channels in your heart, like whatever. That's something that could kill you easily. So that's probably the most dangerous thing. Tell me back to 14-year-old bread impetus before you did steroids, before you tried stimulants, before you hit your face with a hammer. What did your mental state feel like as opposed to now? Do you feel happier? Did you feel less logical than like what do you remember is different than now? I think I I've always been pretty similar with like my mental state and kind of like how I would fit into the world. But I would say I had probably like a little bit more life to me than I would do like more like normal activities interact with people in like a more normal way. And it was harder to to realize that I didn't fit in necessarily. So you know, but that was that was probably the biggest change was just like learning a little bit about my environment and understanding the world more kind of was like a pretty brutal black pill. Do you remember a moment specifically that things started changing? Like when you realized that you're a little different? It wasn't like a singular date or singular event that was something that was like, okay, it's a little bit harder for me to fit in. I have different brain chemistry than normal people. It was just something I kind of picked up on maybe being a little bit socially awkward saying things that might not have been the best and contextually or just non-understanding like social cues. So these were all truths I kind of like had to figure out over many years. Is there any part of yourself that you miss? Certainly the ignorance to all of the hard things in life. And just having like. Yeah, just I would say the ignorance to hardship and less responsibilities. Being immature is a really fun thing and it's something that I kind of grew out of a lot sooner. So I didn't really get to enjoy my teen years. I started working very early into my life. I had my first job when I was 11 years old. So I just had to grow up fast. So well, I guess that put me in a lot more of an advantageous position now. It certainly didn't give me the youth that most people had. Why do you think you were forced to grow up so fast? Well, my parents are super big about like my work ethic making sure I didn't wind up like your traditional rich kid spoiled brat son. Because that happened in a lot of my friends, right? They had their parents giving them allowances that were just ridiculous. Anything and everything they wanted, they never had to work a day in their life. It was all just given to them. Those people now are really not well off. They don't understand the value of hard work. They're gonna be screwed when they have a real boss who's not just their parents, you know, giving them whatever they want. So I was always forced to work for it. Like from an early age, my parents kind of cut me off financially and made me get a job, made me provide for myself. And it's taught me about financial responsibility, learning the value of money. Just a lot of really important lessons that looking back now. I'm like very thankful for it, but it's certainly changed a lot about kind of what I would otherwise be doing. I saw on a stream recently your dad sent you a text message. It said full blown drug addict sad. How do you feel when you say that message? Well, that's a sad one because it's like you don't want to upset your parents, but it's just like I talked about for me to do these IRL streams. It's very difficult for me to talk and interact with people when I'm sober and I'm less entertaining. I'm just not operating at my full potential. So it is hard and I don't like that I have to do it. And I'm trying to kind of taper away from that. Like as I've been doing more and more streams. I'm getting more experience. I've been doing less and less and eventually the goal is to be able to stream without any stimulants without any thing blocking neurotransmitters. There's any drugs really, but I'm just not there yet. I wish it was. Do you think your dad understands you? I don't think that anyone will really ever understand me because it's just I don't always let people and I don't really like to get that deep with people. Never have, probably never will. It's just not easy. So I would say no. What do you think it is that people don't understand about you? It's the way that I the way that I see the world and see what would they have to experience to be on the same page with you. I feel like I just am able to see past like the facades and lies of people and institutions so easily that nothing could be fun and I can't enjoy things the way low sentience people can like for example sports. The way that I I see these industries as just I'm looking at it more just as a as a business that's looking for profit more than anything. They're not entertainers. They're not anything. I'm just looking about sort of the brand deals that they're taking on what sort of gambling deals go into it in more of like a systemized way rather than like you know how much money are these players getting you know how much is their agent taking from like these are all questions and things that I'm thinking about when I'm you know reacting to sports or thinking in the context of football is just like how is this business created? How does this run as a system rather than just being able to sit there and watch and enjoy the game kind of mindlessly? It's just like I like to analyze things I like to understand systems. I will say it's hard to want to change the past because especially of where you've ended up being so successful and it seems to me that your parents were a bit strict on you they still are a little hard on you to want to make sure you're on the right path but when you think about your kids like what would you say is the number one lesson you want to teach your kids? Hmm. I wouldn't necessarily say that I'm mature enough to answer that question right now and I know that that makes people say well you're influencing a bunch of kids like how could you not want to answer that yet I think we're going to have a lot of fun. I'm very particular about the things that I speak on with authority and the rest I make very clear that it's ironic and it's not something to be taken serious. So the importance of self-improvement would probably be one of the bigger ones that I'd advocate for and building a strong character, just doing hard things is one of the most important things for your personal development and who you are as a man. Do you think upbringing is more important or like if you wanted to make sure your kids were successful, would you focus on wife maxing or how you raised them? Well, a dual parent household is one of the most important things but it certainly is how they're raised and what you give to them is a parent, the experiences that you put them through, being honest with your kid, like a lot of parents, no matter what, we'll side with their kid when they've done wrong. So way too much positive reinforcement is something that could certainly be a problem. It's good in a lot of contexts but if every single time you fuck up, your parents are there to rescue you from the consequences of your action, you're never going to learn and grow as a person. So making sure that that's something that's really dialed in and my kid knowing that actions have consequences, you're responsible for what you choose to do and I'm not just going to bail you out every time would certainly be the route that I would want to go and raising my kids. From what I know about you, whenever you got in trouble or messed up, your parents would kind of send you to live with your grandma for a little bit. What did you call her? Did you just call her grandma? What's one thing your grandma taught you? I wouldn't really say that my grandma was hugely influential over my character. I don't really think that we got into anything that I could kind of speak on like this. Are you guys close? Yeah, we're very close but it's not like, what it should give you, I guess, like was she a person you trust a lot, like was there something there at that? Yeah, but when I was up in Cape Cod with my grandma, a lot of the times I was just working the whole day, I would be awake and at work before she got up, I would be getting home from working bar shifts after she was asleep. So there'd be sometimes where I was sleeping and living at my house every day that I wouldn't see her for a week because I was like working 105 hours or whatever. So that's kind of how it was when I was there, but there was never any bad interactions, but we'd mostly just see each other like in passing in the mornings and stuff like that and I'd kind of be on my own. Is your grandma pretty supportive of you? Like is there any family member that actually supported you through all this? No. No. Really? Yeah. Yeah, no. My parents really don't like most of what I do. They just realized that I know how to make money from it. I know how to leverage it into success and kind of set myself up. But the content that I put out, the things that I do, not a fan of. Has there been a friend or a family member that you've lost a relationship with since going viral? No. I haven't had anyone publicly denounced me that I grew up with because of comments that I've made because I wouldn't know if they did, so I don't have any of my social media accounts. Anymore, I deleted my public Instagram that I earned my Instagram account that had like Braden Peters, my name, logged out of my old Snapchat accounts, changed my phone number, so I don't even know, right? It's not like a situation of, you know, me purposely wanting to cut people off or whatever it's just, I kind of am interacting with people working on streams and that kind of stuff, we're talking to brands, it's like I just, I wouldn't even really know. And I moved along far away, so everyone's in different spots in their life. They're in college doing their thing, I'm down in Miami on stream. I'm sure they're probably seeing my content and people I grew up with, but I don't really know. What are your plans of cookie king? Yeah. Why don't you guys stream that much together? Well he was here not long ago, he was with me for about two or three weeks, he was staying here in this apartment with me, so we just didn't get up to too much content, but I'd say we had a good five streams around New Year's Eve. How do you make sure your inner circle is growing with you instead of holding you back? Like how do you kind of decide, can't be hanging out with this person anymore, like these are the people that are going to push me to my path, like how do you think about that? If someone has even the smallest bit of negativity or is hamstringing me in any way, then they just got to go, you know, there's just no questions, there's no ifs, ands, or buts hamstring. Like, yeah, that's just kind of like a phrase people use to talk about like giving you a handicap. So if I'm being handicapped in any way by a person, then they just got to go. What's like the most common way people are holding your back, you think? Well, not necessarily holding me back, but like if it's just someone who wants to hang out all the time off stream and just like party and do stupid shit, that's not going to be productive to me at all, it's not really a case of me cutting them off, it's just not going to hang out with that person. Clive over the past few months, you hit someone with your sobriot truck, you were arrested in a nightclub in Arizona. Why aren't you in jail? Well, in South Florida, there's laws sort of to protect people and have stand your ground. This is a phenomenal state that realizes that there are a lot of people who are up to no good. There's a lot of thugs, and they kind of give you the legal oversight to protect yourself. And that's true in a lot of the red states like Texas, so that's really important. And where I grew up, LA, those things are not true at all. They have like regulations and guidelines where you sort of have to retreat from your own house. If someone breaks in, you can't even like shoot them, which is ridiculous. Do you think you'd be in jail if that's not happening in LA? Yeah, absolutely. But unfairly, of course. Were you in jail? How long? 22 hours. How was it? It was fine. What do you think about Trump and Obama confirming that aliens are real? I'm far removed from that. I'm not just going to give an educated take, no idea if it doesn't help you looks, Max. It's not worth it. Well, true. But it's also ridiculous that people will get asked questions and sort of just go on tangents that are uninformed and just feel like they have to give an opinion. Like, I'm on a podcast. I need to speak on this. I have a platform. I hated the most about the industry from the outside looking in, but more so now than ever. As people getting popular for stupid shit, like playing video games or just, um, IRL streams and then feeling like they need to morally grandstand about politics. It's like, that's not your brand. That's not why you have an influence. You have an influence over esports. If you want to talk about, you know, the new patch notes from a video game, that's one thing and complain about it. But don't complain about geopolitics and foreign wars. You're not an educated person. You're not a figure of authority. Just shut the fuck up. It's like when that reporter said to LeBron, like, shut up and dribble, that's exactly the sort of mentality I have for all this stuff. I like that a lot. Actually, people tend to give a take about everything, you know, in one of the few people that I have on a podcast, and you'll just be like, what the fuck do I know about that, you know? Yeah. If I don't feel confident, or if I don't know about a topic, I'm not gonna sit here and just try to come up with some bullshit, you know? On topics of what you do know, theoretically, if you knew who was really in power, would you say it? No. I would probably would not, because it just feels a little bit ridiculous from a self-interstand point to sort of talk about that kind of stuff, because it's like, well, then you're just gonna get your accounts nuked and your career's gonna be over. And that's not what my brand is about. My brand is about maxing. So if I talk about a subject that I know is gonna get me de-platformed, that I know is going to be a huge financial sacrifice, then I'm not gonna do it. And people will say, oh, well, that's selling out, that's this, that's that. My goal was never to be like a political figure, some spiritual influencer. It's like, my goal is to have good streams, make good content, but it's a business. I'm here to make money. And that's what 99% of content creators that's also applicable to them, they're just kind of being disingenuous about their intentions. It's like, I wouldn't be waking up every single day, coming down here and brainstorming, doing work, trying to plan out different content, go on stream for hours on end for free. You know what I mean? And that's kind of where are you gonna box yourself into if you start talking about these things. And it's exactly what happened with the COVID vaccination. So even if I had that opinion on the COVID vaccination that I'm saying now that it's safe, I wouldn't say that if you were interviewing me in 2020, I wouldn't, I just, like, I know the rules. I just don't wanna get de-platformed, you know? Do you think religion is cope? - No, I think it's just gonna differ person to person. I think from a societal perspective, religion would be one of the most beneficial things because it would influence monogamy. It would promote, you know, a lot of really good things. It would be anti-degeneracy and, you know, also being in favor of, like, dual family households and all these things that are great for a society to function, but it's just unlikely to ever occur. And from a personal standpoint, if you were to become a Christian and follow that 100%, that would benefit you in your life and, you know, how moral of a person you are. But unless everyone does it, it's not gonna give the results that we needed to, that's really interesting. Do you think, like, being religious is optimal for success, looking better, money, status? - I don't, I really don't, and I hate to say it, but there's things that I have to do every day that are our sins and things that go against the teachings of Christ, but they are just sort of things that I need to do to do some of my content, you know? - Do you believe in ghosts? - No. - Do you believe in demons? - Do you believe Jesus was real? - Yeah, absolutely. - From like, just a non-religious standpoint, which Jesus as a person real, I mean, I don't think any historian with half a brain inside their head would disagree with that. There's just plenty of evidence, but whether he's a messionic figure or not, that's a little bit more up for debate. I would say yes, I'd say that there's also evidence for that, but yeah, if Jesus was a person or not, of course he was. - Do you think some of the most, most, most successful and influential people you've met are spiritual? - No. - Why? - I think that super successful people have sort of like this really doled out pathology that's super-result-driven and super-analytical, sort of like a lack of empathy and emotion a lot of the time. - Do you think a lot of the people at the top are psychopaths, sociopaths, every single one? - You've said that you yourself are autistic, have autism. Have you ever maybe thought like am I sociopathic, narcissistic personality disorder, psychopathic like any of the dark triad traits or not really? - No, I think that the way that my brain chemistry is is it sort of allows me to easily identify bad actors and psychopaths, sociopaths and see paths of his side. Like I was talking about, but I don't necessarily have the same advantages that those brain chemistries have of being able to put on this huge show and this huge act of charisma, sort of like your Steve Jobs or whatever. So you think it's an advantage to be a psychopath, sociopath. Yeah, in terms of getting to your goals and becoming successful, absolutely. Like that's the reason that all these CEOs of major corporations tend to be psychopaths. - What physical feature are you most insecure about? - Well, I'd say the most like brutal thing is I have a condition called Pactus Excavatum where my sternum is not properly developed. So I've got like this concave center chest. So that's kind of one that people have commented on like when I was growing up, it'd be like, you know, sort of what's wrong with your chest type of thing. It's not something that's obviously visible and 99% of the cases, but it's probably like the most brutal deformity that I would say, can you fix that? Yeah, you can. There's something called a NASCAR, but it's an extremely brutal operation. You have to have a steel plate in your chest for about six months and it's not the safest procedure in the world. - This might be a hard one to think about, but if you could combine the best physical features from celebrities, influencers, people around the world, like who would you say has the best of each? Like if you were gonna make a perfect human. I would say best eye area would be O'Pry. The best physique I would say, maybe side, if he was taller, is one of the most optimal physics, like 24 FFMI, not gonna be like your super like open body builder type looks, but that's like a lot of mass, a lot of muscle. So that's probably the best for SMV. If he was a little bit taller. Hi, I don't know, just anyone who's a little bit taller doesn't have to be a specific example, but like six foot six. I do, yeah, jaw would probably be either someone like Matt Bomer, Haksum, Tyler Mayer, any of those, doesn't really matter. And in terms of of nose, also probably someone like Haksum, I don't know, hair. Hair, I think Francesa Lachowski probably has some of the best hair I've seen from like anyone in PSL. And then Ron Jeremy, who, Ron Jeremy? Who's that? What do you think your best future is? I would say that it's hard. There's just like a lot of, what's your most rare one, you think? Most rare feature. Say like probably my, my hairline and stuff is really good. And maybe like my facial width. What's the hardest of all those people you just listed? Who do you think has like the rarest thing? Is it the perfect physique? Is it the perfect eye area? Like what do you see? Probably the perfect eye area. Really? After all the pharmaceuticals, the fame, the money, do you feel happier now than when you were 14? And I know happiness doesn't really concern you. But what would you say is the most important way your life is better since you were 14? Honestly, I don't think I really even know what that word means or have any way to define it in a personal context of what happiness is or like what that feels like. I would just say that my quality of life has just generally improved in every way. What would you say is the biggest difference though? Well, the biggest difference is just be like the lifestyle that I live and like having someone cook my food, like having people to clean my house. It's all very nice, nice things. What do you think your 14 year old self would be most surprised about if he met you now? I don't really think I would be that surprised at all. You think you'd be proud? Yeah, I would say I'm off to a good start, but I've always been sort of like a wild character that was infamous or notorious in some way, but it was just, I never had this many eyes. So like I was always doing something crazy and where I was being talked about throughout my town or throughout my school, whatever. So that was always there for me, so it's kind of like something I'm used to, but I'm just not used to it being an entire country or an entire world watching essentially. So you always felt like you were going to be successful? More so about just like the popularity on social media, I would say, or just like the attention I'm getting. In terms of like the finances, yeah, I probably would never expect to do this well so early on. Why did you want to be famous and influential? I didn't. You didn't? No. You just thought it would happen? It just kind of happened. I didn't really like lay out some goal or come up with a master plan on, okay, I'm going to do this and I'm going to do that just kind of all fell into place and I didn't have to come up with a character put on an act. I was just being myself and people were putting more and more cameras on me, but that's been an evolving process for a lot longer than people realize. So I've been doing content on TikTok for ages before that. And for how small I was, there was like a lot of stuff. Like if you looked up my hashtag, there were so many people like making edits of me and I had like 50,000 followers on TikTok or whatever. And it was almost comparable to the amount of like fan accounts that someone with millions of followers would have. So like getting more and more attention, which is something that was super organic, I didn't really have to try for it. What's the dark side of fame that most influencers don't talk about? And there's no way to be at the top and be super successful. And still do things that you enjoy. Have fun, take days off, go party and do shit like that. There's a lot of sacrifices you have to make where I haven't really done any of that. I wouldn't be able to hang out with people off camera. It's just like always streaming, always working, always doing something. So that's kind of how it is. But I like that better. And being super well set up by the time I'm 30, then fucking around and doing stupid shit right now. I know a lot of people have asked you like, what do you see yourself in five years? Like what's the thing you're building? And you kind of just say you take it one day at a time. But like five years from now, what do you hope isn't the case? Like what do you hope doesn't happen? I hope that no one decides that looks maxing is in a positive trend. And that it's something that should be taken out of the mainstream. So that's certainly always been a possibility. That was always something I was always considering for the past year or so. Was is TikTok going to suppress looks maxing hashtags as a word, ma, going to be flagged, you know, things like that. Is that a genuine concern of yours still? Not anymore because I've sort of grown out of the niche or whatever. To where if they started doing that, it wouldn't really matter. I mean, I'm having viral clips far beyond just looks maxing. But it's certainly suck. Is there any content you want to make that you're not making already? Just more high production stuff like with different camera angles and switching cams. So just a lot of that like production edge. That's kind of what I'm going to be coming with next that's going to be the next improvement. Do you want to be the number one streamer in the world? Like do you want to be the most famous person on earth? As long as for the right reasons, you know, you think you're on that path? Yeah, and if I'm not, I think I'll figure that out quite quickly and reevaluate, readjust. If you knew you were going to die in the next five minutes, who would be the last person you'd speak with? I just sit there in my thoughts. I think would be what I would want to do for my last five minutes. How about a few out of full day? Well, that'd be a little different. Well, I guess my family, my grandma, would you string? Probably. Yeah, probably a quick one. Clive, what's the best piece of advice you could give to the world that you think would make their lives better? Well, obviously my normal response would be something along the lines of self-improvement, whatever, but maybe to solve for something a little bit different for today. I'll go that route, but that would certainly be the main thing that I would tell people to improve their quality of life. Just for a little bit of uniqueness to the question, I would say to kind of stop taking advice from people who are not seeing the full board and not really able to understand the full scope of the problem that you might be facing. So they're going to give you super narrow-minded answers, that you don't need and kind of lead you down the wrong path. When at the end of the day, you're the only person who could see all of the chess pieces and operate accordingly. So just be super careful about filtering out bad info. I guess what do you find yourself repeating in your head a lot? Like when something bad happens, when there's something you're not, you think maybe you can't achieve, like, what's the first thing that comes to your mind? Well, a principle I like to follow is to not spike my cortisol, to not have an overreaction, not react with emotion ever. Just remove all of that from the picture and analyze how I could logically get out of something, because sitting there and having these emotional meltdowns, it's never going to help you in any situation you're going through. This is something that women often struggle with is they start freaking out and yelling and screaming and crying. That's not going to get you anywhere, right? So just sitting down, taking a deep breath and being super stoic about situations has probably been my best principle. A reason I think you're so influential personally is because of the cortisol thing. It appears Morgan could say the worst thing that you've ever done in your life, and you would just look at him and make a joke about Mr. Sods, you know, or you'll be on stream with Andrew Tate, who is someone you probably watched growing up and probably thought was influential in a celebrity at one point, but you look so relaxed all the time. You don't get too emotional. Like, what is that? You think that's just how you're hardwired? Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, that's something that people can improve upon. But in terms of like an actual cortisol level reduction, yeah, I know that might be something that's more so genetic. And there's people who want to meet or wear like cortisol bracelets and stuff so that they can see like my levels during this different situations. But yeah, for the most part, that's just kind of always how I've been. I didn't really have to train myself to react in that way. It just always made sense. Like, why am I going to freak out and have a meltdown? It's like, I need to figure out a solution to my problem or I need to address this. I need to react in a way that's, you know, most effective and taking a motion out, always allowed me to see extremely clear. So last question here, just took, make it useful for you back and I'm curious as well. Like, if a guy is going through a bad break up, loses his parents, gets diagnosed with some disease, like, what would you tell them to make sure they remained calm and just took action to try to make it through? I think they're a weak, wild and strong, wild people. And I think if that happens to the wrong person, it's going to eat them alive. And there's nothing that I could sit there and tell them that they don't already know. People already know the stuff that I'm saying. It's just kind of a lot of these things going through hardships early on in your life that sort of give you that shield, give you that mentality that you need to be able to overcome shit like that. So it's your upbringing. It's how your parents raise you. It's, you know, different experiences that you might have being super formative that are going to differentiate you between the strong and the weak will. And that's really what it comes down to more than anything. Not some, you know, meditation, routine or yoga or anything or, you know, putting a picture of your, your dad family up somewhere in your room that's not going to do anything for you. It's just it's all a mental game, mental fortitude. And it's built over a long period of time. It's not an instant mental exercise that you read on Reddit. I guess you're one of your best friends, your parents, if he had someone in his life pass like his mom, his dad, and he's like, clav, like, I'm really struggling. You have any thing to say, like, is there what would you probably say to him? Um, probably just to distract yourself with hard work with difficult tasks. If I had to give someone something, it would be that. But I do believe it's, it's all a game of mental fortitude. And it would just be cope for me to really recommend anything else. Come on. Well, everyone, uh, this has been your guest, clavicular. I appreciate you coming on man. Thanks for having me.