Speaker 1Hi there. Welcome back or welcome to Recovering Out Loud podcast, the show where we get real about mental health and addiction. I'm so glad you're here. If you or someone you love is struggling with drugs or alcohol, please reach out for help. Send me a message on all social media platforms at recoveringoutloudpod or by email at recoveringoutloudpod at gmail.com. You are no longer alone. Mary, thank you so much for coming. I appreciate you. I met you through a retreat that we, we had together and it was a lovely, lovely experience. I know you had a, a sister. Similar experience as well. Um, yeah. How was that for you? Like being on a retreat with, you've done a few before too, right? Yeah. How was that being, you know, around a bunch of sober people for a weekend? There was lots of activities and meetings and stuff like that. What was that
Speaker 2like for you? To me, it's like heaven. It's like being at home. It's to connect with people that are just like me is there's no, there's no words for that there. It's just blissful for me. Yeah.
Speaker 1It's like, there was a presence in every room, you know, and I had a bunch of, I had a, you know, I had known a few people there beforehand, but I didn't know everybody. And I had a lot of, uh, interactions with people here and there that were really meaningful conversations and not those, not those cocaine take over the world conversations.
Speaker 2Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Paramount pictures. We like to create movies.
Speaker 1Yeah. Paramount. Yeah. I love it. Okay. Well, um, I want everyone to, I know I've heard your story a few, no, I've heard your story once now, and, uh, I thought it was, you know, well said powerful, but I think there's a message here that a lot of people need to hear. And so, um, let's just start with, you know, childhood. What was, what was childhood like for you?
Speaker 2It was difficult. It was, oh, where do I start? I, um, I lost my mom when I was four years old. She had cancer. And, um, there's three of us. I'm the baby of the family. And, uh, the three of us have this thing in our family with addiction and alcoholism. And, um, there was a lot of, uh, I grew up with a father who did the best he could, but there was a lot of trauma in our house. There was a lot of abuse. There was a lot of fear, uh, tiptoeing around him not to set him off and, um, strict, very strict. And, um, yeah, I mean, it's, uh, and you adapt to that, right? Like when I tell people my story now and, oh my God, you lost your mom at the age of four. That must've been hard. Well, what, how can I miss something I didn't have? You know, it's, uh, you adapt, you adapt. And, uh, when my mom died and my father had to keep working, my sister, my brother had to go to an orphanage Monday to Friday. We, we come from Montreal and there was a big orphanage there and I was too young. So I had to stay with my aunt until I became, I think five or six. And then I was, able to go in and in this orphanage, it was, you know, boys of a certain age, uh, you know, and then girls of a certain age, it was like divide divisive. And, um, and we were raised with nuns in there. So you could imagine, I mean, I, I was, when I look back, I, I, this sense of not feeling like I belong started from a very early, early age. And when I got into, uh, when I got into this orphanage, um, I was hanging out with these two girls and they were like the bad-asses and they had, um, boyfriends and I just, okay, if that's what it takes, I got myself a little boyfriend with glasses that stick. And I, I didn't know what I was doing, right. This was just to fit in. And, uh, I remember, um, you know, we had, there was, there was a big statue of the Virgin Mary. And when we went outside and I went behind the Virgin Mary with this boy and you know what, when you're six and you're kissing a boy or whatever, you don't know what you're doing. It's kind of gross. It's, you know, a bit of tongue, this, that, whatever. And I sold, told the boy, when I count to three, let's pull down our pants. So to see what we look like one, two, three, pulled on the pants and the nun came and caught us. Oh my God. And I begged her, you could kill me, me, just don't tell my father about this. And I don't think she ever did. And I was six years old at the time. Right. So I was looking for a place where I could fit. And that happened as I was growing up before I ever touched a line or, uh, I drink or whatever. I never felt, I felt different. I felt looking for, to find myself, my identity, you know, I, I, it was, it was a confusing time. Yeah.
Speaker 1What, um, can you describe what your first sort of memory, earliest memory, maybe with, with substances, what, what that was like for you?
Speaker 2So I was 17 years old. I had graduated high school, Montreal, and I was already living on my own. And, um, I was working in this restaurant in Montreal. I was the only girl that was all waiters. And, uh, I, I hooked, I, I hooked, whoa, let me rephrase that. Hook up, I know meets sex, right now. So I did, that was not the case.
Speaker 1It used to be something different.
Speaker 2Yeah. But back then hook up didn't mean let's plow. It's, uh, it was different. So, um, I, I just became friends with this waiter and I told them, let's go back to my house, to my apartment and drink. And I remember I drank, we had Southern comfort and stuff, and I drank half a bottle and I was so sick the next day saying, Oh my God, I'll never do this again. But even in doing that, like who drinks half a bottle? A bottle of alcohol their first time. Like that's alarming. But I wanted to know, I didn't want to know about the tips. I want to know what it's like to drink and get drunk right there. There's something wrong, right? There's, it's not normal. So yeah, it was pretty vile. That was my first
Speaker 1experience. This kind of all the way thinking, right? This is black or white, all or nothing extreme. Yeah. Um, and so he had the alcohol and what, like, what did you, what did you know about is up until that point like growing up was it it was around your house a lot or so my my sister and
Speaker 2brother um social services were in our house because of the abuse my father inflicted my sister and brother used to get severely beaten my my sister was a bit of a rebel may she rest in peace she's gone now but um you know she was the type of girl that would leave the house looking a certain way get out of the house and then wear the mini skirt whatever you know and and get in trouble and that in so social services were there a lot and they kept running away they were put in foster homes and getting running away from there and stuff and so i was left alone with my father and i didn't know what substances were i mean i had heard of drugs but i didn't uh i didn't know because i didn't see it and i was forbidden to see my siblings because they were like the black sheep and they were you know they brought shame to the family meanwhile let's not talk about what was going on in the house i'm not going to talk about that shame because everything had to be swept under the rug and um i would see my sister in secret every once in a while and by the time i reconnected with her she was already dancing in the bar business and she was hooked on drugs on cocaine and um but i would see her in secret and i didn't know much about the drug then but when i left on my own at 17 she came back into my life and i lived with her and i saw the devastation of what that did to her yeah so it was scary it was uh infuriating i didn't understand these people that look like zombies when they're on this shit then they have no more and they're jonesing and i used to watch her cry coming down wanting to kill herself always listening to these sad songs you know it's like you know the those westerns i lost my dog and you know those sad songs when you're you're sad and stuff and uh i always said to myself i will never do that today's lesson is never say never yeah especially
Speaker 1in recovery yeah for a long time i i didn't think i never said i wasn't going to relapse but i didn't think that it was gonna happen yeah i was on social media yesterday and um i was reading a but i feel moved to say it i was reading this thing where they were talking about relapse doesn't it's a part of recovery it can be a part of recovery but it doesn't have to be right and i fully believe that support that 100 but these people were commenting on it and they're like yeah i'm there's they were talking about this one and done like i'm a one and done yeah i'm a one and done you know i first time i got sober it's like sorry can you see the few like how do you know that you're done you know what i mean today yeah today i can say that you know i'm sober and and uh and and clean but i don't know what the future holds right my my experience was that i didn't see it coming you know my relapse and i so i have to live for today and we talk about that a lot this one day at a time thing that we go through but it's
Speaker 2like that's a dangerous place to be is like a thousand percent it's all you know what makes
Speaker 1me nervous i hear people say this in meetings you got this oh my god i cringe that's a good one yes
Speaker 2you got this no all you got is a one day every day you have to make sure that there's certain things that you do to maintain your to maintain to just yeah to keep your sobriety and there's there are things that you need to do there's things you need to read and there's there's instruction you know the more i put into my recovery the more i'm taking out an insurance policy for myself you know do i like doing everything i have to do in recovery no no i don't but i have to do that because this is my third dry date i did go back out i did relapse i'm just grateful i didn't die in the process but some people die i just found out yesterday from one of my sponsees that um a girl that she was with in treatment 29 years old went back out after treatment used and died it's not a joke this is like so you know when people get cocky or they i don't know if they mean to be cocky or whatever they go i got this you got nothing learn to humble yourself because if you're sober today it's by god's grace it's by well i worked for it yes i've done the work but i also rely on the grace of god and i've done the work but i also rely on the grace of god and i've on a higher power every day and sometimes i've had to take this thing five minutes at a time they say you have 24 hours right the maintenance of your spiritual condition i've had to there's been moments in my recovery where i've had to take this this thing not one day at a time five minutes at a time 10 minutes at a time an hour at a time like this is this is not it's not you get sober and la-di-da and i like poof magic dragon everything is so good it's not like that it's life will happen whether you drink or you don't drink but if you just learn to take direction which for somebody like me that's why i had three dry dates i was very stubborn and defiant i was young when i came in and i didn't have to do the steps because i'm young you guys are you're old and you're rotting you have to do this you need them yeah not me yeah because you know i had to the cute little body this that nobody cared about that but me but i was sick when i came in we come here because we're not all there right so and then after and being desperate in recovery i learned to take direction i learned to listen and i learned to follow what these the people before me did that
Speaker 1helped me yeah yeah one of my favorite sayings is uh you can't fix a broken brain with a broken brain right or a sick brain with a sick brain it's like i've tried that no kidding i've tried that many times and uh i need some i need another way you know it's plain and simple like i i i need not anthony's plan today right and how do i get a different plan while i listen to your point i take the cotton balls out of my ears and put them in my mouth for a second and just listen to what people are saying because they've been there right um so you mentioned you know your first experience with alcohol can you touch on you know what the progression was like for you and sort of what led you to that moment of like you know what the progression was like for you and sort of what led you to that moment of like you know what the progression was like for you and sort of what led you to that moment of like you know what the progression was like for you and sort of what led you to that moment of like
Speaker 2i'm done this is enough so it it happened like it happened like this so at 17 i started and then you know after two three days from being hung over from uh the whatever that that that booze that i drank there it's all been i'll never touch that again i started dabbling with marijuana and i started dabbling with lsd and i was having fun it was so much fun and then what happened is uh the age of 20 i um i got introduced to cocaine and i was hanging out with somebody that was doing it casual user and uh we were out one night and he said i'm gonna go get some and i said why are you gonna go get that i i don't do that stuff and you know again always feeling like an outsider and this this was back in the 80s you know in the and in the 80s it was in the bar business was very very prevalent this blow and everybody was on this stuff and so he said no no he goes i'll go get it i'll do some and you just drink i go if you go get it i'm gonna do it with you and i did it oh my god that was the love of my life for the first time i think and i mean the other drugs with the lsd and the and the and the you know the marijuana and the alcohol yeah they were okay and stuff but cocaine did it for me i felt like i had arrived i felt like i could talk for the first time i didn't feel different for i just felt like i could i could run the world it was just and the talking oh my god the non-stop talking it's just you know just talking and all that stuff and really that was my first real good experience cocaine and then after that i just kept chasing that same experience which i never got i started hiding in closets i start oh my god oh my god the stuff that i did i i i would just be paranoid and and and i'm thinking well this is kind of stupid so i'm all paranoid when i'm on it and when i have no more i want more and you know i would think about was my deceased mother who would look at look at me from the other side and be crying just to watch her daughter go through this and not only me her other daughter and my brother who was incarcerated for more than half of his life he too passed away god bless him he was addicted to crack and to think like the you know addicts are all riddled with the the shame and guilt and that's all i felt in my existence i was dancing i didn't have two pennies to my name borderline homeless in abusive relationships there was no direction in my life i was just lost and um i don't have a story where you know i used to be like i don't have a story i don't have a story i don't have a story i don't have a story i don't have a story i don't have a story i used for 20 years my using was from 20 to 23 23 i arrived in the rooms i was done i was done i couldn't die i tried to kill myself i couldn't die and it's sad when i think of that it's really sad when i think you're 23 and you want to end your life because 23 is supposed to be you know an exciting uh time in in a in a in an adult's life where they go to university or college i was done i i was done dancing with the devil and i i felt that i was just sitting in darkness and i did not understand the point of my existence and i remember when i hit my bottom i was um working in this bar in scarborough and i came home and it just stopped working i remember doing a line and it didn't work anymore and i came home and i got on my knees the very same thing i gave the finger to this god i thought if there was a god i wouldn't have had this life right my mother wouldn't have died i wouldn't be raised with a psychotic father um you know all of this stuff right that was the biggest victim on two legs when i got into rooms with reason but looking at it now nothing happens by mistake there was a purpose why all this had to happen but i didn't know it then and um you know i got on my hands and knees and i prayed and i said if you're there you kill me or get me better because i can't do anything like that now did i pray to god while i was doing my using and stuff get me out of this one i'll never do it again yeah but this time it came from here it didn't come from here it came it was the cry of desperation from my soul and that's all that i believe that god asked i'm on standby and i'm waiting and when you're ready i'll be here and i was ready and so my journey began you know and what did that look like after
Speaker 1that was it a phone call or was it what happened is i was in a in a
Speaker 2relationship very disgusting relationship with somebody that got in contact with somebody we used to party with and was now a big book thumper in the rooms and i got in touch with him and he gave um he gave him the number of an addiction counselor who gave it to me and i started to see this addiction counselor once a week i owe my life this counselor he was amazing i was scared to death of him i don't know how many world wars did we have two three two yeah this guy looked like he's been through 50 a recovered heroin addict and he just looked you right in the eye and he looked rough like you could see he's been through hell but you know it was my introduction into a different life and that's how my journey began so he i would go see him once a week and he told me go to three meetings a week and i'd be like okay which meetings once a week he goes well pick one right 12 there's different fellowships you could go to different ones i go can i smoke a joint in between he goes no no no no joints i'm thinking wow they're a bit strict over here but anyway i had to do that and um you know i came into my journey began and i came into recovery knowing that i was an addict i didn't know i was an alcoholic so i had to go back out to do more research with that it wasn't pretty
Speaker 1so what do you say to the people now that come in because this is a common issue i i struggled with that too at 20 and i'm like i'm not gonna do it again i'm not gonna do it again i'm not gonna do it 23 um i'm an addict check yep all the evidence there but alcoholic no no like i'm gonna drink on my wedding day i'm gonna you know i'm gonna handle the drinking it's just the drug guys like let's focus on what's important here let's not get carried away yeah let's not get carried away what do you say to people new people that come in that are like because this happens a lot with with our especially my generation of people coming in but also like i don't know i can only speak for my generation but it's like what do you say to people that are i'm an addict
Speaker 2but not an alcoholic like what well i'm gonna repeat what was told to me in treatment i was shipped off the treatment in um in 1989 and this is when co and covid this is when the government paid everything and um my counselors and the group i was sitting in you know chances are if you're an you're an alcoholic no i'm not no i'm not well yeah and they made us do the step one and we had to write how much money it going back how much money we spent and this that and i listen i only have a i don't even like booze i only have a drink because sometimes sometimes i would do blow without drinking like that was fun yeah just disgusting pitiful and incomprehensible demoralization for sure and um they kept going and insisting and at one point i shut them up just uh i agreed just to shut them up because i thought you don't know what you're talking about they're one of us but you don't know what you're talking about you can't fool you can't con a con you can't fool somebody who's exactly like you but i agreed just to shut them up but i wasn't convinced so i came back and uh i joined the 12-step group a program and a 12-step group and uh i had a sponsor i never called i did the library and i never read a book uh i was doing things one foot in one foot out because you know i had this was firm and everything was firm and they're old so i'm gonna i know you're there god but you know let me do it so i was i was not surrendering fully you know when it comes to my my uh my social life and my uh yeah yeah i know you want the best for me but i'm gonna do it my way you know you got to get out of dancing mary yeah yeah yeah but i'm still gonna dance oh dancing straight there's another trip um and i was doing the without being high because i was having so much panic attack on stage and oh it was brutal so there was a point then in my recovery where i stopped going to meetings for at least i think about a year and uh i didn't i wasn't lucky enough to not go back out but i did i i started to feel different i started to feel different and what happened is this as i you know it's the typical story of stop going to meetings this that you meet somebody they become your higher power next thing you know i'm in venezuela and i'm drinking after three and a half years of sobriety and when i drank you know yeah i'm amazed i had like i see people they go back out for a day or two and they're like oh my god i'm gonna go back out for a day or two and
Speaker 1they come back oh my same i know same i was out for eight months yeah eight months and the last
Speaker 2place i wanted to be was in a room with sober people that was gonna screw up my high no but the more i drank the more they got loud see there's a saying that goes be careful what you pray for because you might just get it well if i'm aligning i'm trying to align my will with god i can't have my cake and eat it too something's gotta go my my ideas i've gotta go i can't incorporate the old ideas into this new life it doesn't work like that right it's a change of everything and um during the time that i was out for eight months there was this gentleman that kept calling me it's so fascinating how god works and i'd met this person in a bar who was in the program and uh anyway he would call me every once in a while hey how are you doing i'm good who is this it's so so uh you're drinking yeah call me when you're done click you're an idiot why are you calling me right like but he was just making sure the seed was planted once the seed is planted and you go back out for anybody who has reservations about this it's gonna be a nightmare in a shit show that's it i'm warning you right now because you're nobody's exception to the rule if you're a type three addict alcoholic like me and you want to go back out after you had some time it's gonna be pure hell because now you know the difference and um anyway after eight months i called him i came back into the rooms and uh you know he became my sponsor they were right they were right in treatment and they were right and i i yeah chances are if you're an addict you're an alcoholic and i can vouch for that because alcohol is a drug it's a mood altering substance so why would i think that that would be okay back then i thought it could be but you know you weaken slowly right in this program so for me it turned out to be the best thing i did because it just proved that once i became a pickle i don't go back to being a cucumber i'm done i'm done and now it's i'm very comfortable and and at peace to say i can't take anything that alters my mind i just can't i'm allergic to this stuff because once i ingest it i'm like they're not like the normal person oh i'm getting tips i'm gonna stop duh that's the whole point you know i'm gonna drink sleep in my vomit good idea for me you know like good it's not like people drink like this don't they no they don't right so yeah it's uh interesting it's interesting how you like you said that fix you can't fix the head with the head right recovery is all about going from here to going in here then it's it's a language that you got to go in within it's a recovery is all about doing the opposite of what we used to do with this the most i heard a conference speaker say once the most devastating six inches of history is the space between my ears oh i fell off my chair and i laughed because it's true so recovery for as much as i don't know about you but i tried to dissect what we were learning in the rooms and about god and what does this look like a shh go within just do the work and once you do that you're going to be able to do the work you're going to be able to do the work and once you do that you're going to be able to do the work you're going to be able to do the work and once you do that you're going to be able to do the work you're going to be able to do the work and once you do that you're going to be able to do the work you're going to be able to do the work and once you start to do the work and you start to tap and you start to face who you are and you start to get introduced to who you are and and you clean that stuff up and you give it away then you start feeling this peace and this your eyes start to open and you start to pay attention and you go oh my god look at my life now and the miracle is i don't even think about using and drinking anymore because my life is so good
Speaker 1my life is so good you know it's it's it's miraculous really yeah and that was i think the thing and and weed falls into this category too right with a lot of people that i talk to where it's so socially acceptable that it's not classed with cocaine and heroin and meth and that's it's a very dangerous place to be right i heard someone i think it was uh i heard someone on a podcast once say that the worst thing that you could be is like kind of an alcoholic right or kind of an addict it's so true it's like i'm kind of you know i kind of have a problem right because it's like for me yeah that means that there's that back door for more experiments for more research like you said and nowadays the cocaine people are doing is deadly right it wasn't as deadly as it was before you know before now it's deadly to your point we're seeing people drop all over the place and so for me the mood and mind-altering substance is the most important thing for me and i think it's the most important thing for me and i think it's the most important thing for me and i think it's the most important thing for me and i think it's the most important thing for me and i think it's the most important thing for me and i think it's the most important thing for me and i think it's the most important thing for me and i i tried it i tried every short like avenue yeah but you know with all sorts of substances and the risk now to today hopefully tomorrow is the same but i don't have tomorrow today the risk is just so high for testing out anything else that it's not even worth it right no no it's not so dangerous um i was gonna ask you but you you kind of touched on it a bit um what is life like for you today i never
Speaker 2if somebody would have told me when i came in this is what your life is going to look like going forward flash forward to 2025 this is what your life is going to look like clean and sober relatively healthy um you know learn to drive a car have a car bought my house married to a wonderful my best friend actually um having direction and a moral compass back in my life i'd be like yeah smoke another one like it's it's i never imagined my life to be like this it's not a glamorous life but it's a rich life filled with purpose today and what i thought back then which was a you know this god giving me all this crap with the the loss of a mother and the abuse and this that i use that today to i use that today to help and work with the girls that come my way that are broken and when i when i reflect on that and when i think about it and when i think about it and when i think about it and when i reflect on the time when i was trying so hard to kill myself and i would pray to my mother and i would pray and i'd say you know god god like help me and god's answer today as i see it not yet because i need you to do me a couple of favors not because not because i'm perfect not because because i was given this blessing this unmerited gift of life and a second chance of recovery my case more than a second chance third chance and he uses me as a vessel to carry the message that you don't have to live like that anymore if if you're done there's a different way to live and so today um when i pray in the morning i pray and i'm i'm gratitude and i thank him for my life and i pray for people and stuff and i i don't really tell him what you got in store for me today because sometimes it's like come on god you know but whatever presents in my life today i do the next right thing i don't go looking for girl people come in my life i i i i give my i give of my recovery away i do service in my home group i i'm busy i'm busy and i do service not only in my home group in my home and in my work i i whatever i learned in recovery in the rooms i apply it in my life and really that's what good orderly direction is so for anybody who's confused about what's this god thing good orderly direction you want to introduce the kid get introduced to a high power do what's suggested to you and you'll tap into that right so i it's like i won the lottery but it's not the lottery of the money i won the lottery of life to have purpose and i can be authentically myself with all my cuckoo and i have a very dirty sense of humor and but i also have a heart and i i'm i got my good points and i got my bad points and i embrace all that to just be merry you know what i was meant to be in the first place and i'm loved and i'm able to love not by the whole world but by few so i'm grateful
Speaker 1for that yeah yeah i always say to people like my favorite and most rewarding part of recovery and being sober is being able to recover and i'm able to recover and i'm able to recover and i'm able to sponsor and pass it on to to another guy like i you can't describe it to somebody right like to to watch the transformation of someone you know and to see the the light flash in their eyes by by something not that you not that something that you made up or came up with or just something that you've passed on right or something that my my higher power my god has allowed me to share right whether it's an experience or something i heard from someone else one time you know what i mean and it's like that i i always tell people like stick around long enough so that you can get to the point where you can carry the message to specifically sponsoring but like one other guy or girl yeah because it's the greatest thing yeah you know it's a gift yeah so how do you mary how do you navigate through you know when life life's you today and and you know something happens where you know you're like why me when life life's you how do you navigate through that in recovery i don't say why me
Speaker 2why not me why not me i've been introduced to loss from an early age everybody my family's dead um we die young from uh disease and um all those experiences have just brought me closer to god really i clearly don't call the shots here did i get mad at god a thousand percent listen my faith was tested when my sister passed that when she got sick and diagnosed with stage four lung cancer i became a little bit dark but thank god through sponsorship and i had a a woman in my life back then that we really did a lot of hard work and uh repeated steps and stuff for issues that i needed to work on and um i remember like the same as my mother when she died you know what kind of a god takes a mother away from a four-year-old and two kids and the counselor says well it's all about you right my sister died and i'm like what kind of a god takes a mother away mary it's not about your mother's suffering it's about you anyway my sister got sick and i made it about me and i got pissed at god you just took my brother a year ago now you're taking her why so not that i didn't believe that god was still there but i got real with god and i always get real with god i don't go to god and go you know it said in our literature i remember doing this years ago presented somebody pray for the people you resent god i pray for this motherfucker that you give him everything this fucking bitch that you give it like that's how i used to pray right you fucker there's not a name i didn't call god when i came in somebody had to hear it somebody had to hear it and thank god for psychotherapy and all that like i did a number of things to get better and you know a lot of these spiritual retreats i remember talking to a priest going is it okay that i could speak you swear god you swear god yeah i do you don't what do you mean you don't right he's my buddy yeah i go i remember talking to this priest and i go is it okay that i swear at him he goes mary god's shoulders are so big he's fine with it and he created me right so he knows me and why would i show up to god being a hypocrite listen bitch i'm hurting and i need you to help me right wow whatever language you use god wants you to show up when you're broken he doesn't want you to show up when you're good why would i even seek him out if i'm good my pain that i went through my my depression my pain my anger my desperation was that the the gateway for me to get to god because if i could keep using drugs and drinking and not have a problem go on there'd be no real reason for me to contact god why i almost died i tried to die i was sitting in darkness well let me reach out to the last straw the very same thing i gave the finger to for being precise for having such a an unfair life i'm gonna give this a try right my call to god and my desperation came from here not from here from here so and it's the same today and now when something happens i reach out to god i reach out to my sponsor i have a network of people i've created i've through time and stuff i have people that hold me up like-minded people that hold me up when i'm going through a hard time and this too shall pass and it does yeah so that's how
Speaker 1it is i love it one of my favorite acronyms is you know hope stands for hold on pain ends right like i just need to grip the steering wheel and and get through today right because tomorrow might not be better or worse but it'll be different you know if i get to bed it'll be different tomorrow and uh yeah that's gotten me through a lot too or it's just like i you know i don't know what's going on right now but i trust you i trust the outcome and it's not up to me but
Speaker 2i i trust the process i'm not liking what you're giving me but i know that you you got this he got it i mean i don't have nothing but he got it yeah i can't it's so true
Speaker 1yeah i can do what's in front of me and i can leave the results up to to the universe to god whatever you want to call it right and i think it's also important to know what i always say this but it's like we come in here and a lot of people are like god like i grew up catholic and i hate it and blah blah blah all this stuff it's like you know it's every it's your own conception you know it's not the the judo create judo christian judeo-christian god it's not the guy with the beard in the sky it can be but it's up to you right it's it's just not you it's not me yeah it's a it's you said group of drugs i love that one great outdoors is an other one you know good orderly direction sorry you said good orderly direction but i liked group of drunks when i came in because when i walked into a room full of alcoholics i felt something there right on the retreat right yeah on the retreat there was a a power greater than myself oh yeah so pray to that you know whatever's going to get you through it if you could go back to your younger self before you got into addiction what do you what do you think you would say to that that version of you
Speaker 2so you know there's this thing i wouldn't change anything i don't regret anything i would i would there were some things that i that i've done that that i would change and not redo again however all of that pitiful and incomprehensible demoralization behavior that i did had to happen in order for me to be instrumental to carry the
Speaker 1yeah yeah yeah it led me to where i am today right absolutely you know um i want to talk about like essentials to your recovery sort of like these tools or daily habits or things that you do and i'm i'm sure maybe it hasn't but has it changed from so when you first came in early recovery what were your sort of essentials and then what is it you know today has that changed so when i came in i was still full of fear i was still um
Speaker 2for me it was like the experience of the peeling of an onion right and i had all these fears and you know i had to make a certain amount of money every day and i had to and i wasn't really investing in my recovery and as like i said when i reached this dark point in my recovery where even suicide was an it was a thought because it's not this not a deal where you come in and you get better and you're oh yeah okay Okay, I'm good, good to go. No, you gotta give it away. you want to keep it so once I became like that that I really invested in my recovery and stuff there's things that I need to do every day there's things that I so I get up in the morning I have my coffee I read my literature and I pray I pray I have a conversation with God I get up I do what I have to do where do you need me what do I need to do today God where do you need me where do you need me today do I have to do this do I have to do that and like I say for me my life a lot is service today it's service and service is huge because service keeps me free service doesn't give me time to think about my own stupidity of the paramount pictures paramount pictures is the you know the this this we should all have been in a movie industry we would have been loaded because of this active imagination you know it's always a horror movie when you're when you're capable of forming a resentment for something that hasn't happened yet you're fucked and that's why brain right so and I laugh at that because how fucked you have to be but talk to another addict alcoholic don't get that right so today I just try to do the next right thing I like I said I work with girls I have a position in my in my group but I also nine years ago I enhanced my recovery by starting to go to Al-Anon because I had to I hit another another bottom in my recovery because I'm a fixer and if you would just listen to me you would be okay and I'm talking sponsees I'm talking people that are not even in the rooms and stuff you know people that come around you and they drain the life out of you I can't I'm gonna slap them right so but I understand it too because I've been there but because of this program I've been given this gift that it's not like that anymore so you know I was working with people and I wanted to fix and God forbid they realize well what did where did I go wrong it's not about me right so because I want to fix because I want to control and that if you would just listen to me yeah listen to me and land in Al-Anon like me because that's where I ended up and Al-Anon it's a program where there was something in that program that I didn't learn in the other fellowship and it teaches you a lot about boundaries but it's a program that I didn't learn in the other fellowship and it teaches you a lot about boundaries but it teaches you a lot about boundaries because there's a lot of things that I didn't learn in the other fellowship and it teaches you a lot about boundaries because there's a lot of things that I didn't learn in the other fellowship and it teaches you a lot about boundaries keep a safe distance so that you don't get stung emotionally mentally physically and spiritually keep a distance it talks about live and let live it talks about minding your own business and yeah yeah yeah yeah you came here and you want your partner or whoever it is to stop drinking I don't want to hear about that they don't even really allow a very good group will not even allow for you to talk about that I don't want to hear about that I don't want to hear about that I don't want to hear about that I don't want to hear about that I don't want to hear about that they're gonna say why are you want to hear about that they're gonna say why are you want to hear about that they're gonna say why are you here why are you here yeah you're the here why are you here yeah you're the here why are you here yeah you're the problem I'm the problem yeah why are you problem I'm the problem yeah why are you problem I'm the problem yeah why are you here if you think that this is a program here if you think that this is a program here if you think that this is a program where you could stop the person it's not where you could stop the person it's not where you could stop the person it's not gonna work you know so that was a ding gonna work you know so that was a ding gonna work you know so that was a ding ding ding when I started to go and I ding ding ding when I started to go and I ding ding ding when I started to go and I started to listen it was like bells went started to listen it was like bells went started to listen it was like bells went off it talks about the the childhood it off it talks about the the childhood it off it talks about the the childhood it like a lot like what we talked about but like a lot like what we talked about but like a lot like what we talked about but what role did you play in your family what role did you play in your family what role did you play in your family dynamics because alcoholism addiction is dynamics because alcoholism addiction is dynamics because alcoholism addiction is a family disease the ism is in the a family disease the ism is in the a family disease the ism is in the behavior bingo it's in the behavior so behavior bingo it's in the behavior so behavior bingo it's in the behavior so for me if I look in my family this is for me if I look in my family this is for me if I look in my family this is generational my father's side is a lot generational my father's side is a lot generational my father's side is a lot of alcoholism my mother's side is a lot of alcoholism my mother's side is a lot of alcoholism my mother's side is a lot of addiction it's not the drug it's not of addiction it's not the drug it's not of addiction it's not the drug it's not the alcohol it's the behavior of these the alcohol it's the behavior of these the alcohol it's the behavior of these behaviors that are toxic in the family behaviors that are toxic in the family behaviors that are toxic in the family system so what's what's really if what's system so what's what's really if what's system so what's what's really if what's really fascinating to me as people they really fascinating to me as people they really fascinating to me as people they think that you know it's all I need to think that you know it's all I need to think that you know it's all I need to get my my son help or do whatever it is get my my son help or do whatever it is get my my son help or do whatever it is I've spouse this that then yeah but you I've spouse this that then yeah but you I've spouse this that then yeah but you need to get help to why I'm not the one need to get help to why I'm not the one need to get help to why I'm not the one with the problem yes you are you play a with the problem yes you are you play a with the problem yes you are you play a part in there right you play a part and part in there right you play a part and part in there right you play a part and I I speak like this because I'm so I I speak like this because I'm so I I speak like this because I'm so passionate because you can't remain passionate because you can't remain passionate because you can't remain asleep and think that this is just about asleep and think that this is just about asleep and think that this is just about him this is about the whole it's up it him this is about the whole it's up it him this is about the whole it's up it affects everything we are like roaring affects everything we are like roaring affects everything we are like roaring tornadoes destroying lives of people we tornadoes destroying lives of people we tornadoes destroying lives of people we love everywhere I go I I like when I was love everywhere I go I I like when I was love everywhere I go I I like when I was in my addiction I was destroying right in my addiction I was destroying right in my addiction I was destroying right that's what addiction does it's a that's what addiction does it's a that's what addiction does it's a devastating illness and so let's talk devastating illness and so let's talk devastating illness and so let's talk about that let's do some work on about that let's do some work on about that let's do some work on yourself and let's see where what what yourself and let's see where what what yourself and let's see where what what part you play in there what was your part you play in there what was your part you play in there what was your behavior like at that time how did you do behavior like at that time how did you do behavior like at that time how did you do to cope there's nothing and your eyes to cope there's nothing and your eyes to cope there's nothing and your eyes open and you're like it's like it's the open and you're like it's like it's the open and you're like it's like it's the same kind of program but it's it's from same kind of program but it's it's from same kind of program but it's it's from a different angle and I always say a different angle and I always say a different angle and I always say Al-anon is way harder way harder because Al-anon is way harder way harder because Al-anon is way harder way harder because you got unlearned patterns of behavior you got unlearned patterns of behavior you got unlearned patterns of behavior you got to stop controlling you got to you got to stop controlling you got to you got to stop controlling you got to be you got to do this deal with a little be you got to do this deal with a little be you got to do this deal with a little bit of detachment attachment is the root bit of detachment attachment is the root bit of detachment attachment is the root of all suffering okay give me a break of all suffering okay give me a break of all suffering okay give me a break here I'm in you I'm a human being so here I'm in you I'm a human being so here I'm in you I'm a human being so it's like I'm a spiritual being going it's like I'm a spiritual being going it's like I'm a spiritual being going through this human experience and I through this human experience and I through this human experience and I think the human experience is the think the human experience is the think the human experience is the fucking bitch it's hard it's hard fucking bitch it's hard it's hard fucking bitch it's hard it's hard because I have a heart I fall in love because I have a heart I fall in love because I have a heart I fall in love with all my sponsors we share such with all my sponsors we share such with all my sponsors we share such intimate intimate intimate details and I share with them my life details and I share with them my life details and I share with them my life and how do you do this with detachment and how do you do this with detachment and how do you do this with detachment but detachment doesn't mean that you stop detachment doesn't mean that you stop detachment doesn't mean that you stop caring it just gives you that caring it just gives you that caring it just gives you that space to protect yourself to understand space to protect yourself to understand that they're on the journey and you're that they're on the journey and you're that they're on the journey and you're on a journey and it's not personal and on a journey and it's not personal and on a journey and it's not personal and you pray for them right so you pray for them right so you pray for them right so yeah it's that's it it's it's a trip yeah it's that's it it's it's a trip yeah it's that's it it's it's a trip recovery it's a trip yeah and more will recovery it's a trip yeah and more will recovery it's a trip yeah and more will be real to me and I'm just hoping and be real to me and I'm just hoping and be real to me and I'm just hoping and praying that praying that praying that I will end up at my grave with this dry I will end up at my grave with this dry I will end up at my grave with this dry date and uh date and uh date and uh because I don't ever want to go back yeah
Speaker 3because I don't ever want to go back yeah
Speaker 2because I don't ever want to go back yeah Anthony never Anthony never Anthony never when I think about that I cry you know in when I think about that I cry you know in when I think about that I cry you know in two days I'll be celebrating 26 years two days I'll be celebrating 26 years two days I'll be celebrating 26 years and it's amazing it's miraculous it's and it's amazing it's miraculous it's and it's amazing it's miraculous it's just it brings tears to my eyes because just it brings tears to my eyes because just it brings tears to my eyes because it's an unmerited gift it's an unmerited gift it's an unmerited gift it's an unmerited gift why is it that some it's an unmerited gift why is it that some it's an unmerited gift why is it that some people live through this people live through this people live through this and get and get better and some people and get and get better and some people and get and get better and some people die die die 29 years old with a little girl dead why yeah and God's like because I got a why yeah and God's like because I got a why yeah and God's like because I got a plan that you don't understand plan that you don't understand plan that you don't understand and I keep thinking that because it's and I keep thinking that because it's and I keep thinking that because it's none of my business none of my business none of my business my business is to keep carrying the my business is to keep carrying the message to anybody else who wants it message to anybody else who wants it message to anybody else who wants it it's it's as well said yeah it's a trip
Speaker 1it's it's as well said yeah it's a trip it's it's as well said yeah it's a trip right like it's you can't explain it you right like it's you can't explain it you right like it's you can't explain it you know yeah know yeah know yeah um more will be more will be revealed I um more will be more will be revealed I um more will be more will be revealed I love that it's so true it's like love that it's so true it's like love that it's so true it's like I can't comprehend the plan and I never I can't comprehend the plan and I never I can't comprehend the plan and I never will and that's okay right I'm happy I think they're on the other side of that now where my mom now, God bless her, she's carrying the message left, right, and center. She loves it. She loves when people come in broken because she has now a role to play in their lives. And if, like you said, if they're willing to pick up the tools, I have a toolkit for you. You know, I want to ask you this. What, what do you think the difference is between enabling and supporting someone in active addiction? It's a fine line,
Speaker 2right? Again, you got to wake up to understand the difference and waking up means you've got to become aware and accept that you too play a part in this. And if you're fighting and going, no, I'm about the problem, you're going to stay asleep. So enabling is me cleaning up after your mess, me cleaning up after your debts, me cleaning up lying and making up story and protecting you at all costs so that you could keep killing yourself. Doing yourself because I'm making it comfortable for you. There's no reason to change if there's no reason to change. Supporting you means I see what you're doing to yourself and I love you and it's killing me. But this is so painful. I can't watch you die. I can't watch you die. So it's either you got to do something, you got to leave because I'll love you forever and I will continue to love you, but I can't stand to watch this. Torture. If you don't leave or do something with your life, then I can't, I can't do this, right? So that's the difference. And it's the hardest thing to do. And it's the hardest thing to do because you don't know if they're going to die. That's the reality. But if you go for your own treatment, take care of yourself in these other, the rooms on the other side, you know what you have to do. Because it could be your son. It could be your wife. It could be your kid, whoever. Really, it's God's child and you have no power. Step one, I'm powerless over alcohol, drugs. My life is unmanageable. I'm fixing it. I'm enabling you. I'm cleaning up your debts. That's the unmanageability and you become just as sick, if not sicker than the addict alcoholic. So that has to change, right? So the moment you got, you start, to take care of yourself and you stop, then the disease of addiction, I go, wait a minute. Addicts and alcoholics are sly fuckers. They're very sly. and they're diseased because they're very manipulative and stuff not because they're bad people but because they're sitting in that darkness and addiction alcoholism is all about darkness it's all about what can i do to get my next fix my next hide isn't where can i steal where can i manipulate where that's what it does but clean that person up and they shine like a diamond right i read a quote from carl young and this is this quote never leaves me a whole person complete a whole person is someone who has wrestled with the devil and now walks with god and if that doesn't describe us to a t i don't know what does right yeah so you clean us up and we become we know both sides of the coin we become real like real warriors for god like if you listen to what you have to do and you give away this message and you become so passionate like i'm passionate about there's a way out of this yeah you know so it's uh that's the difference for me between enabling and uh and uh supporting i love that yeah um
Speaker 1you detachment i like that word too it's like you know healthily detached it doesn't mean i don't love you and i'm giving up i'll be here when you're ready you know right i'll be here when you're ready but until then i can't partake because it's killing me i can't torture myself
Speaker 2watching you die like this and you know some people i know in al-anon that live with an active alcoholic now they act and they're happy they still live with them they still but there's tools that they have they know that they follow that they don't they detach they detach they focus on their own recovery and they're happy people and i'm looking at them like wow because i don't know that i can live today with an active user i don't think i could it
Speaker 1would bother me yeah you know you kind of get taken down with but it's all about choices and
Speaker 2it's all about they don't tell you do this do that you figure it out just keep coming back keep coming back and you'll know right so there's a lot of freedom and and space there for choice
Speaker 1yeah whatever works for you right yeah there's a lot of paths up the recovery mountain as as i always say yeah um what's something mary that you're you're working on recently you've been
Speaker 2working on personally so what am i working on i don't know that i'm working on anything i know that i could be very hard on myself um today is really not about drinking and getting high anymore today for me it's how i show up in the world are my character defects in check um i'm working on trying to respond as as opposed to react i'm trying to always i mean everything today is about being in alignment right but um i know for a fact that i'm not leaving this world with flying i'm not the kumbaya the next kumbaya i'm i'm a flawed human being and so i will die a flawed human being but i'm always trying to improve myself and when i'm really centered and i'm really doing well in my mind peace i'm slower to react i'm um i'm more in tune but there's days like i just god don't put a gun in my hand because i'm gonna kill this fucker you know what i mean but it's just it's like that it's like that's what recovery is it's about how do i show up in the world am i working on my controller issues am i still trying to fix am i engaging in all these crazy things these crazy behaviors that no longer serve me did i gossip about somebody today did i like at the end of the day if i know i've done something wrong it's like that always in here the god center that's where it resides in me and that's what my life is today what did i do good today what did i do bad today and ask god for forgiveness and i continue so it's always being about the best version of me that i can give but it's not perfect
Speaker 1you know yeah yeah with a little bit of forgiveness and grace too because sure yeah i've met a lot of addicts alcoholics myself included that uh we're very critical of our of ourselves right we're good at uh picking up that two by four and beating the crap out of ourselves you know so it's a good point let's end with this mary um if you could say something to a struggling someone that's struggling right now with mental health or or addiction what do you think you would say to them
Speaker 2there is definitely a different way to live and i hope you hit your bottom soon and because desperation is the gift that's going to be transformative in your life and if you're not there yet that's okay but get there because without a bottom nothing happens and so would i love to see you know i was driving here today and i saw some guy and i don't know on the road and he was on a bike and dirty and like i don't know if he was on some type of drug whatever and i like my first words was god help him god help him my heart bleeds when i see this because i get it yeah i get it i never landed on the streets i hadn't landed on the yet i haven't gone to prostitution yet i would like homelessness yet but i was heading that way and for some reason god seemed fit to i hit my bottom and it was like i didn't have to land there thank god but when i see what i see today with people and you know going to watch a show and watching somebody on the nod in an elevator with track marks and that i'm like inside i'm i think god just carry them these are your children you can't get through to somebody when they're on the nod you know but hopefully they show up in the rooms because every time that we do the serenity prayer that's what we pray for for the suffering addict you know and if they come in the room then our prayers have been answered sometimes god i think god is so merciful that he just takes their life and says no this is done or i don't know what god's plan is but the miracle that some people come into the rooms and they stay and they transform their lives that's the prayers that are answered
Speaker 1for sure for sure and it's worth sticking around for it oh yeah just to watch that right yeah and
Speaker 2if you you come in and you think you've done and you still fall and you still use just keep coming back get back up and come back get back up and come back because you know there's that saying don't leave until the miracle happens sometimes you'll hear something in the meeting or whatever that you're gonna go ding ding ding the light goes off
Speaker 1and you're like oh yeah yeah love it thanks so much mary for coming down i love you and i appreciate you and i had a lot of fun today thank you thank you for having me thanks for listening please help
Speaker 4us grow the channel and like share and subscribe for more content the discussions and stories shared on this podcast are for informational and motivational purposes only this content is not a substitute for professional medical advice addiction treatment or therapy if you are someone you know is struggling with addiction please consult a licensed physician addiction specialist or mental health professional you are no longer alone
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