Hypatia of Alexandria (Radio Edit)

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Tämä on jääntää, mitä jääntää, mitä jääntää näin. Tämä on tämän nähdellä. Oleta on hyvä, että Hypatia on pelossa maailmaa. Tämä on tämän nähdellä, Thanks to 2009 film Agara. Sain rape-tävästi, mutta ei ole Hypatia. On seuraava 1987-episodot, joka on seuraava suuretio. On seuraava suuretio, että on seuraava suuretio. Ei ole seuraava, ei ole seuraava, mutta ei ole seuraava. Mutta on seuraava suuretio, että on seuraava suuretio. Ei ole seuraava suuretio, mutta on seuraava suuretio, että on seuraava suuretio. Tämä on tämän nähdellä, mitä on seuraava suuretio. Tämä on seuraava suuretio, että on seuraava suuretio. On seuraava suuretio, että on seuraava suuretio, että on seuraava suuretio. On seuraava suuretio, mutta ei ole seuraava suuretio. Sitten on seuraava suuretio, että on seuraava suuretio, että on seuraava suuretio. On seuraava suuretio, että on seuraava suuretio, että on seuraava suuretio, että on seuraava suuretio, mutta on seuraava suuretio, että on seuraava suuretio. Ok, so Sainesius of Sainesius. What a name? He's a bit of a fanboy. Olga, you are an expert in reply guys. Wow, what a swerve, I like that. Are you on from historical territory here? This is the psychology of people who write back? I guess so, it's very interesting. So basically my master's was about reply guys, which are a catch all slang term for men who, I guess, incessently respond to women who don't act like they exist on the internet. And it's sort of very casual and very, I guess, like, body body fashion. That's overly familiar. This guy kind of recontextualizes it. It's not a modern phenomenon. It's been around. What other sources do we have for high-patient? We have the letters of her fanboy Sainesius and we have this. Biography by Socrates and Scholar. Another guy called Damascus, he wrote a life of another neoplatist in which she has some interesting stuff really more about the culture of Alexander Maria, where she grew up. And we've got the amazingly horrible John of Niki Yu, who is a seventh century, coptic bishop. And he wrote a world history, man's planing history for everybody. And his paragraph on high-pature is very important, because it reflects what people like him thought of her. And that is that she is a seductress, a high-class sex worker who begalls people with witchcraft. We've got a text that reflects what people were shouting in history. Let's say that way. Sov one quadratic equation and all of a sudden I'm a witch. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right, before we get to high-pature herself, let's talk about the world she was born into. We've previously done an episode in the previous series about the city of Alexandria in Egypt for Olga's benefit. Edith, can you give us a quick rundown of life in late fourth century Alexandria, this amazing city of learning? It is a city which has had the very famous library and several other libraries and museums attached to it. It's a university city. It's still the greatest university in the whole of the Greco-Roman world. But it's multi-ethnic to an extraordinary degree. And that's had a history of huge liberalism about that. But you've also, because of the particular point in history, in the 490s, the first really harsh edicts from the new Christian emperors were coming out. 391 is the edict of Theodosis that all pagan temples have to be shut down. Right. So she comes into the world. She's born between 350 and 370, AD, CE, the exact point as she's reaching adulthood. Yeah. Where being an old pagan philosopher is beginning to become a very dangerous thing to be. But she's a pagan, which means she worships multiple gods. Yes, I don't think she did worship multiple gods because she's actually a neoplatonist pagan. So what happened to her? Come on. Obviously. It's very important. I know, sorry. So while there's a sort of no-sional acceptance of the pagan pantheon, I don't think she had any kind of real faith or prayer life to gods because she believes in this neoplatonist model of the universe, which is that all of the physical world that we can see around us, everything, our bodies, the environment, nature, anything made out of matter, is a second rate copy of the eternal oneness of the world of ideas. Yeah. So my yoga teacher thinks the same as the others. Right. A lot of people do. So let's talk about her childhood very briefly. You said she's born somewhere in the 350s, three 70s. Olga, how do you think a young woman, like high-patient, got into maths in the ancient world? Well, she was a pagan. So I guess she started out by counting the gods. One to 12. What's your inkling? How do you think a young woman gets into math at that point in history? Oh my god. She lets a man explain it to her. Was it part of like a curriculum? In school. Well, she taught, actually, what was part of the university curriculum? Now, she's a neopobebe. Of course. I mean, I wasn't going to say her dad, but we were all thinking. And her dad is called "Fet on." "Theon," which just means "godly." And he is head of the maths department at the library and museum. He is the professor of maths in Alexandria. No son is mentioned. We know nothing about any other member of the family. No mother is mentioned. No sister is mentioned. It's highly light, if you only had one kid and it was a girl. There are several instances of this in antiquity where men sort of politely forgot that there was no micro-missome and actually trained up the daughter as an apprentice. Something that's gone on throughout history. We actually know four other women who were around in fourth century. One actually in Alexandria. Or four whole women. Yeah, four whole women. Cadlin. That's a lot. We have confirmation of four women. There was a mathematician, a good one called Pandrosion, which is a beautiful name. It actually means all moist like the morning dew. Then we've got one over at Pergamon, which is the other the second biggest library, which is on the west coast of Turkey. We've got somebody else in Athens, who's another neoplatonist. So she isn't alone. But high-poche sure is effectively treated. - That's a son almost by her dad. - I believe so. - And he's called Thion. What does Hypatia mean? - Hypatia is such a weird, that's a sort of Victorian pronunciation. - Yeah, I was gonna say that. - Or Patia. - Oh. - Or Patia. It means the very high, highest up, the summit, the pinnacle of excellence, just the very top most. No pressure, you know, the top most. It's just from the Greek word, Hupsaus, which means elevation. - That's amazing. - I like that a lot. What does Olga mean? - I don't wanna talk about it. - No, it's actually short for Olga Garcus. (laughing) - To be clear, that's a joke. - Okay. - So we have Patia sort of taking on her dad's school job. But he's the teacher, he's the math professor of the library of Alexandria. She takes the role on what would be on the course that she's teaching. - There would be near Platonist philosophy. - Sure. - So how do we think about material world? How do we think about the one, the unity, that will have been introduced actually by a version of Aristotle's logic. It's kind of a synthesis, so there's a bit of stoicism in there. Because the way to achieve union with the one, intellectually and psychologically, is actually by a mild form of asceticism. You've got to live a quite a disciplined life physically. You cannot do self-indulgence. It's got a monastic hint, but it's not actually in any way religious. It's all about the self and self-discipline. Then there would have been maths, there would have been Euclidean, maths, there would have been optics, and there would have been astronomy. So basically all the fields in which you can apply maths. - I mean, she sounds busy, she didn't have time to respond to fan mail. - They didn't do stat statistics, that's a Latin term. - Oh, that's Romans for you, isn't it? The Romans they love data. - Yeah, exactly. - No spreadsheets in Alexandria confirmed. - Okay, so, high-patient, or how did you pronounce it? - Pupatia. - Pupatia. That sounds slightly like your sort of, I don't know, it feels slightly like you're tripping over. It's almost like you're sort of falling down this staircase. - It's very pretty and green. - It's beautiful. So high-patient here is mostly teaching men? - Yes. - Are there any women in her class? - I very much doubt it. We cannot tell you that to a fact. - But usually, our source is saying that the museum, which is the big library where the teaching goes on, did not admit women. - Right. - So she seems to be quite exceptional. And I'm sure that if she'd actually got married, she wouldn't have been allowed in. I think it's this sort of a virgin who doesn't have anything to do with sex, so she's like a pagan high priestess. - Oh, and she stays that way throughout her entire life? - As far as we know, yeah. - Oh my God. - Wow, so she's a virgin and a athlete. Cleashaken firm. (laughing) - Harsh, sorry, sorry, a athlete. Olga, how do you imagine the student teach a relationship going? If she's got a class of men who are expecting to learn from men and hear this woman teaching them? - Honestly, guys, I don't know. I feel like, first of all, it would stink, okay? Let's just throw that back. A bunch of young boys in one room, unventilated, that place stunk. I can tell you this much, all right? Also, deodorant has been invented from what I can do. - Yes, Link's North Africa, yes. (laughing) - Yeah, so I think it would be a lot of disciplining. And I bet they would all keep falling for her. She would be the only woman in the university, so they'd be like, my guess you're the one. There's no other chick. - Ding, ding, ding. - I think it's true. - Well, there is a story which I'm absolutely sure is apocryphal, but that one student who was so loved lawn that he kept harassing her to try to get her to go out with him. And it said that she threw a soaking sanitary pad at him. Quim! And said, that's what you're in love with, like my physical body. - Oh my god, I love that. - What you should be after is the true love of one, ideal form of beauty, not this material copy. - She probably would have proved her point better if he didn't absolutely love getting a pad thrown at him. I can guarantee you that. - So she's got a student who's in love with her, she chucks a sanitary towel that his head, HR, surely had words there, 'cause you can't do that. But that's an interesting sort of comment. - I bet all the other boys were like, can I have one? I'm telling you. (dramatic music) - She's got her fans and her students sort of seem to really admire her. - They do. - What does she contribute to mathematics? You know, her father had been the great teacher at the school. So she had new knowledge, is she as great a mathematician as perhaps Hollywood would like her to be? - Probably not that original. She was an expert expounder of complicated mathematical ideas. She wrote big commentary books. This was the great age of commentaries on Euclid's elements, on a guy called Dyer Fantas, who wrote the Treatise on Arithmetic that everybody did. Probably on Tolemies, Almagast, almost certainly on our comedies. He was one of the greatest mechanical engineers. - Okay, sounds like she was a reply girl. - Yeah. But her own contribution seems to have been of development. Again, if somebody else, a guy called Apollonia has written a book on Conic sections. - Oh, my favorite. - She does seem to have advanced how you measure cones or how cones exist. It's something to do with cutting through the curving surface that goes round to measure it by doing some sort of intersection. It's not completely clear. I have tried this with an ice cream cone myself. - Well, sometimes it's important that it's the developments in these commentaries actually make the original work more relevant. Like, nobody really cared who Shakespeare was and then 10 things I hate about you came out. And then people sort of started getting it. So I don't think we should have underestimated her contribution. - You know, she was genuinely held to have said something completely original about cones. And she was also set to just be a really charismatic, brilliant communicator of this stuff. - She's an amazing teacher. - Yes. - Right, you know, her students love her. - And that is an enormous gift to be able to express very complicated ideas in very simple ways. - I patients quite well renowned. So much so that several things have been named after her. There's a high-patient asteroid belt, there's a high-patient butterfly, there's a high-patient crater on the moon. So she's getting her retrospective acclaim now. - Oh, yes. - You know, we are now happy to acknowledge high-patient is that one of the big brains of the ancient world. - Well, she's the first woman in STEM. (laughing) - Well, there you go. - What was the criticism? - What is it that they hated about her writing or her conduct? - The Roman Empire. - It's trying to go Christian. - Mm-hmm. - And people who taught pagan philosophy. So things like near-platinism, which told you to question everything. - Yeah. - And do scientific explanations for things. So you were going to explain comments as something to do with something that's going on mechanically in the universe, not as a sign from God. This represents an incredible obstacle to converting the population to proper Christianity. So she became a figurehead for like the resistance to the newly converted Emperor. - Oh my God. - In a way, her neo-pagan views were more progressive than the Christian ones. - Lastly. - Woo! - So my patient's obviously around in the mid to late 300s and Christianity had been arriving in the Roman Empire earlier than that and it had taken 60, 70, 80 years to become the official religion and bit of a pushback. And then, you know, but in, here we are in Alexandria in Egypt and we've got damage to pagan temples. We've got real physical changes. We've got tensions and we get the arrival of a new person called Cyril, but before Cyril, there's someone else important, we should mention. - Yes, so between 391 when the sorry pan was destroyed and the nice and creed was officially set up as what you have to believe in if you were a Christian, one of the reasons I think that high-paysia was able to survive and carry on teaching for at least another 20 years was that the patriarch, that means the bishop, Christian bishop of Alexandria was a guy who was quite sympathetic to her and it reminded called theophilus. - Yeah. - So for 20 years she was under the protection of that bishop and he wasn't going to let all the fanatics close down. - So he's a Christian, but he's quite open-minded and he's tolerant of a science. - And there were plenty of those. - Yeah. - What happened in Fort Wehrhoff is that a very different character got to be the bishop after theophilus died and he is called Cyril. - Yeah. - He only gets into that position by beating up another guy called Timothyus. There's a huge amount of rising. - That is the Christian way. - Yeah. But Alexander had actually for several hundred years been known as the riot city. I mean they do like rioting in Alexandria. So it was almost any excuse for a riot. So there were lots of fights and riots and bloodshed before Cyril even got inside. I think he's already slightly paranoid. - Okay. - Before he even gets in and he wants to secure his power base. Things then heat up even further because a new governor pointed by the Roman Empire whose secular governor comes in, who's actually a Greek, all these people are Greek, even though they're in the Roman Empire, called Orestes as in the Greek mythical figure. He just happens to be called Orestes. And that is the face off between Cyril and Orestes that poor high-patient is caught. Both of them are in the same position. these guys were very ruthless. She gets caught in the crossfire. And we start to get violence in the city and we get Cyril and Arresti's, you know, they're starting to be on opposite sides of mob violence, right? And sometimes mob violence targets Jews, some of it targets Christians, some of it target Pagan, you know, everyone's getting hurt. So we're thinking, is it modern terms? It's like if the mayor of Rome and the Pope had moms? Yeah, it's almost, yeah, it's, I guess, Governor of Egypt is a sort of bigger job, I suppose. It's kind of he's ruling a big old chunk of land. But yeah, but the bishop of, yeah, it's and the Christians were very, very, very anxious to. Sorry, mayor of Los Angeles and Tom Cruise. I'm much better analogy, yes. Yes, I think both Arresti's and Cyril wanted to be the top guy, right? Okay. In Alexandria. And Cyril, basically one, Cyril starts bringing in various different groups of thugs really. One is his Neatron monks. Then he gets the parrots Bollani, the people who risk their lives. I they're really weird because we start off as the group of Christian paramedics. Right. Incredible. They are paramedics who were supposed to do things like take old people into old people's home, take people back from hospitals and protect, but they also serve, they're sort of under Cyril, but they also serve as his private bodyguard, his bouncer, his kind of those mafioso thugs. Yeah. Those two jobs do not normally go together. Oh, the well, people don't know, but the entirety of the KGB is trained in first aid. And how not to give it. The exact process we don't understand by which the enmity against Arresti's not transferred to high pasha. Yes. Where does she say the five minutes you've been talking we haven't mentioned her one. Yeah. Sorry. But no, but no, it's a good point. Like where is she in all this? Wait, is it a parrots Bollani? Have something to do with Arresti's really likes, he likes near platonic philosophy. The kind of Alexandria in his vision is precisely the one where she is going to be this dominant intellectual force and help keep everything open and progressive and the old Alexandria of intellectual culture is not replaced by a fanatical primitive Christian theocracy. Yeah. I mean, that is what we're talking. Huge issue. But the hate people said she had, this is where my coptic bishop from later on comes in useful. They said she had begilten sexually and enchanted the governor of the empire with her witchcraft. Which is literally her doing two plus two. The hatred for her was so much that it did lead to her being assaulted by the parrots Bollani. So the paramedics turn into paramilitary. Yeah. Limey. Different explanations have been offered for exactly how the government got so the secular government under Arresti's got so associated with her. But it was. So they're executing and punishing a torturing their enemies. Both both sides. Yeah. Okay. And so that's where Pau. So did the parrots Bollani kill hypochia? Yes. They either arrested her while she was actually teaching or pulled her out of her chariot or vehicle as she was driving to or from her teaching post and took her to into a church, had been a temple I think of Zeus and had been converted into the cathedral and killed her. She's caught up in this violence. It's in no way hurtful. She's not excited. She hasn't joined aside. She's just been teaching in her. We have no evidence for that whatsoever that she was at any political interest. She obviously wanted the multi-ethnic and open society. But it was the I.R.A.R.A.G. that Arresti seems to have managed to get aroused in Cyril and the Christians. Arresti's then disappears off the. Yeah. I was going to say you're going what happened to the end? Well, there is no more word of it. He stops being governor. Somebody else comes in as governor and maybe people said that he had screwed up. Sure. Maybe he was actually genuinely upset and thought this is no way to. We don't know very much about him, Sky. What we know most about is Cyril, who went on to be one of the most successful, vicious and early Christians of all time, was involved in all the most famous theological disputes and was even made a saint. Yes. Oh, come on. So this was the beginning of the end, right? So from this moment on, it became more and more conservatively Christian, right? Yeah. Oh, boy. So Cyril becomes a saint. And then you said that Hypatia becomes a sort of martyr to philosophy later. I think she's a secular saint. Yeah. She becomes a very important representative for both women in science and free thinking. That's amazing. What a life. I mean, Olga, do you think Hypatia deserves her her role as the first woman in STEM? Are you happy with that title? Yes, absolutely. That was just so deeply, deeply sad. I don't have anything. No, I know. But we do know her about us. So we do get to celebrate her. And that's, you know, it's worth discussing her. And thank you for that. And yeah, it's a very sad end, but extraordinary life, I think. But you want to window! Time now for the new wants window. This is where Olga and I sit silently doing our geometry homework while Professor Edith stands at the front of the class and tells us something we need to know about Hypatia. So my stopwatch is ready. You have two minutes taken away, Professor Edith. There's something else other than craters on the moon that have been named after Hypatia. And this is the Hypatia stone. The Hypatia stone was discovered in 1996 by an Egyptian geologist. He discovered it in what to call the Libyan glass parts of the Sahara. Now Libyan glass is some sort of strange meteorite type sort of mineral that looks like glass. He was researching that and he came across a small, very, very rough, craggy looking stone, only about 1.3 inches in diameter, tiny little spotty diamonds in it. And it has been tested now. It's been sent by people in Los Angeles universities and in South Africa, Johannesburg. This stone mineral makeup is so extraordinary that it means it's almost certainly made, formed before our solar system. It is quite extraordinary. Now he wanted it, the geologists who found it, wanted it called after Hypatia, which is very sweet because as an Egyptian scientist, he saw himself as a descendant. He didn't name it, an Arabic name, he named it, you know, it's the tradition of the Library of Alexandria. But just imagine this tiny stone and I've seen lots of different pictures of it. Unfortunately, the scientists have cut it into bits so it's even smaller to examine it. This means that it's more than 4.6 billion years old. It was formed at 198 minus 198 degrees centigrade or colder in a supernova. That's amazing. Beautiful. Isn't it? She's timeless. I feel that. Hypatia, the eternal idea of the eternal constant in the solar system. I mean, pretty good to be 4.4 billion. What was it? 4.4.6 billion. I think she'd like it too. Could you like stars and stuff? If I have one takeaway, is that she likes all that stuff? What is kind of union with one? Yeah. I just came from out to space, speaking for our galaxy. Thank you Olga. Thank you so much Edith. Listen up if you're in the mood for more ancient philosophers with Edith. Check out our episode on Aristotle and Pythagoras. He's more than just a triangle guy. It's quite the life. And to hear more from Olga of course, you can listen to our episodes on Ivan the Terrible. He was terrible, by the way. He really was. That's confirmed. Terrible confirmed. All the episode on vital electricity, which is an absolute hoot. And remember, if you've enjoyed the podcast, please share the show with your friends. Subscribe to your dead-to-me on BBC Sounds to hear new episodes 28 days earlier than anywhere else. And if you're outside the UK, you can listen at BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts. Now I'd just like to say a huge thank you to our guests in History Corner. We had the excellent Professor Edith Hall from University of Durham. Thank you Edith. Thank you. I had a riot. Very fitting. And in Comedy Corner, we had the outstanding Olga Coke. Thank you Olga. Thank you very, very much. And to you lovely listener, join me next time as we solve another forgotten historical equation. But for now, I'm off to go and beg Rachel Vise to play me in a movie. Bye! That would be good. Attention! Animal lovers, haters and undecideds. A little birdie, a tit told me that you're looking for a podcast just like Evil Genius, but without all those stupid humans. I'm Russell Kane, waddling onto your feed and squawking about my show, Evil Animals. Every episode I'm joined by two human guests, or as I like to call them, ex-monkeys, passing judgment on all the creepiest crawlies and the biggest elephants in the room. 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