Hunter Biden, Matt McCusker & Duncan Trussell - Mostly Wise #2 - #1136

- Change my wife's name to Peter Teal and my phones. (laughs) - Why? - Just because I got accused of being in Peter Teal's, I don't know, I'm never met him. If he was in now any time my phone, my wife calls, which is a lot. Peter Teal is calling. (laughs) - I don't know, I'm never, I don't know. - Yeah, sure, man. (laughs) - He's a lot of texts from Peter Teal over here. - He said it, God. - Let's talk about him. - Antichrist. - No. - Please, no. - Oh, cool angle, you know, you went with. That was a weird direction. - What? - He just became the Antichrist guy. - I saw the talk, it's a terrible interpretation of the book of Revelations is so Silicon Valley. 'Cause he was like, he's basically saying, we can fix the book of Revelations, patch it. Like the apocalypse doesn't have to happen. I don't want to piss on the podcast 'cause I can take so much shit from beer to those. Then I'm a Peter Teal sick of fan. - Right by the way, are we on the podcast right now? I saw his phone, he's got like a hundred calls from Peter Teal. - It's my wife. - I can't believe I'm showing you. - I'm showing you all of it. - I changed us to make it clear. - I, I love you. - I changed my wife's name. - Fuck it. - Now that's how we're gonna play. - That's it, that's it. - That's it, that's it, that's it, that's it. - We leave the over. - Yeah, that's it. - Whatever you want to say this for the record. - I love Peter Teal. - Really? Oh, absolutely. - What do you love about it? - I'm with Peter Teal. He's in league with the anti-Christ. I'm not, yeah, I love it. - This is your saying it is out of fear. That's what you're saying. - Oh, no. - I love him. - This is Pascal's wife. This is Biden's wife. - He's the fucking craziest motherfucker of all of them. - Do you think? - Did you watch that interview where he just decides that what he's gonna start doing is, you know, as we're talking about, palantir, and everything, is that he's gonna start talking about, you know, the anti-Christ. - Did you watch that interview with him? - It is framing. - Yeah, I didn't make it through. Kind of watched and was like, I just was like, it's kind of a cool angle, I guess. - What? - Here's like a tech weirdo to be like, I know about the end of the world. - Yeah, but wouldn't you say like the tech companies? It is a religion now. It's turning into some kind of apocalyptic, eschatological religion. They're all building bomb shelters. They all know that AI is about to reach some level that is going to completely destabilize societies. We know it. So it's, I mean, it's not a cult, but most cults, what are they talking about? The end of the world. The imminent eschaton, as I used to say, eschaton, the apocalypse. And so they're all into that, 'cause they know that this stuff is going to destabilize society and radicals. - I can't get down with being afraid of computers. - It's not. - You have to be such a nerd to be looking at your computer. Like, it's gonna be my boss. - I'm not afraid of the computer. I'm afraid of those scamper and robot dogs. That's what I'm afraid of. I'm afraid of being in the woods in here in one of those DARPA dogs. - My thing is, you said before, all you do is dump soda on them. Fried. - There you go, but-- - Are these cigarettes? - Are these cigarettes? - Right, don't be afraid. - Just pour coke on it, guys. - You got a cup of coffee in here and you're fucking-- - Don't you see those dogs that are patrolling Atlanta? Downtown Atlanta is so dangerous at the moment that, I'm supposedly, here it is. - Bro, we got, this is security right now. - Oh. - Or soda on that. - Right now. - I'm really right out of my real cup. - Oh, no. - Soul detected. Eliminated for real. - Yeah, the wave. - But there's, it's humans on the other side. So it's just, they were okay. But isn't that strange that, if I'd said, oh, it's like LIDAR mapping, AI, surveillance state, everyone would have gone, it's already kind of freakish and inhuman. But the fact that it's basically replacing a rather being a guy, there, there's a dog there and maybe the guy doesn't need to be in quite so much risk if it's maybe like a gang area or something like that. You know what, but that is, that goes to show just how low the bar for not being freaked out is. - Right. Have you seen the, the proliferation of fly cameras? It just in the last year? - I've heard about it. I don't even understand what it is. - It's gone from like hundreds to hundreds and hundreds of thousands in like all major blocks and areas. They're just a, it's a camera technology. It's a surveillance technology. - And they've had drones now. They're getting drones. They're gonna, swarms of flock of these drones are gonna fly over plus the Amazon delivery drones. There's gonna be this constant buzzing of drones in the sky bringing you shit, monitoring you. This is where we're headed for sure. - Was it true that Pokemon Go was that? - Yeah. - Did that get proven that they were basically a gullible volunteers for mapping street view of everything? I mean, they're all gullible volunteers. - They were just, you were like able to map the inside of places and just like you could just get a real time view of everything going on. - And someone didn't read the tons and conditions that Nintendo put together. - Yeah, nobody read that, I don't read that. - Are we afraid of the Japanese? - Well, no, I think they're our ally or Japan's our ally. - Yeah. So it's good, right? - Well, apparently it's not so, it's corporations though. It's not good. And they literally have everything. We literally have given over our lives to the, to the bag of heroin that's sitting in a pocket that's called an iPhone. - Literally, everything. All of our, everything that we feel about anything, the way that we, you know, are perspective on politics, on everything is, you know, a, by virtue of the algorithm that we're fed. And we give up everything, we give up all of our privacy. And I'm not saying like, you know, like they do that. Like, we do it every day. Every single bit of data that we do, whether it's the way that we use any single one of our apps, whether it's Uber or anything, it's all this enormous amount of personal data that we are just like feeding into a, you know, a corporate entity that they don't, I mean, and by the way, I'm not saying they're inherently evil. But what I am saying is that they're inherently have only one objective is how much money can they extract them us? - Or calm. - Yeah. - Yeah, true. - Yeah. - What? - Or what? - Calm me, sir. - Calm, how much, how much, how much, how much? - I mean, they're trying to extract. - I mean, this is one of the on-quantifiables every day. How much Jizz is being extracted from humanity by phones, by technology. - True. - You just literally took this conversation to another level. - I mean, it is data. - I mean, it is data, it's data, DNA, baby. - Do you ever think about when they, I think they eventually will have it set up on againstessery.com where you're like kids, kids, can just look at your web history over your whole life and just see everything you've ever looked at. I think of that all the time. - That was basically a life for a while. - No, yeah, 100%. It wasn't my life. - Speaking of your data being on the internet, how does it feel to be the most Googled drug addict of all time, probably? - Well, at the outset, it wasn't very nice. It was pretty debilitating, you know? I mean, to be serious about it was so completely ubiquitous is that it forced me into this moment where I literally had to make a choice of whether I was going to stay in bed and die or get up and live. And thank God, I chose to get out of bed and live. Which created an incredible freedom in it too. I mean, at the end of the day, without any melodrama around it, is it really, I do have an enormous amount of gratitude of not being stuck in those secrets because those are the things that kept me in my addiction. That shame. - Yeah, what was that like? I'm like kind of fascinated by just now how, like with the internet, you can just massively shame people on the scale that I don't think anyone's ever experienced. The first day that came out, did you like, were you like knowing that was going to come out of it to just kind of like pop out and you were like, - No, I was completely like the day that it happened. - Oh, yeah. - I mean, no warning whatsoever. - Yeah, I got a call. That just wrote about it on Substack. I got a call. I went to Palm Springs. We thought that we had kind of like made it to the end of the campaign. Early voting had started. Things looked really good. All of the, you know, the baggage I'd been sober for a little bit about a year and a few months at that time. And was trying to put my life back together, getting things straightened, like my taxes and things like that. And so a buddy of mine said, hey, come out to Palm Springs and we'll just like turn off our phones and, you know, and Melissa and I, and we have Baby Bow, who was a few months old. And we showed up, unpacked our bags and I got a call. I should have turned up my phone. I got a call from my friend who was also my lawyer. And he said, hey, you're supposed to say something about a laptop and a, you know, repair shop and, you know, and, you know, I had no idea of the enormity of the story and how much punnerbiting laptop would become just one word that would be, to this day, is repeated over and over and over again. And so for a long time, it was really difficult to kind of, it was like trying to get your hands around a bowl of jelly because there was, there was the laptop repair shop story, which then became a, a story of suppression, you know, of First Amendment rights and stuff like that, which we can talk about all that, but, and then it became, you know, let Parnas came out and he said, this laptop isn't from, you know, repair shop. We were going to get the laptop in Ukraine three months before the laptop repair shop story ever existed. Two, I just sat down with Tucker, and Tucker said, "Well, even before that, the Israeli intelligence met with my producers to provide us with the same images that came out of the laptop before that." And I mean, that just came out, I mean, I sat down with Tucker last week Tuesday and he told me that story, which I didn't even know that. Yeah, I mean, that story. So was it in a shop? I can't explain it because it's not my story, but Tucker said that he was approached by who he believes to be Israeli intelligence, and he sent a producer to meet with them. And they were pushing stories, they were pushing a narrative that there was images that contained miners in it. And he said, his producer looked at it and he just was like, "This is total bullshit, but it's like, but these guys are clearly working for some intelligence organization." It's funny if I just knew your time supporters was Jewish guys. This is a really intelligence measure. So, consider the source, but my point is that not only everyone had it, yes, 100%. And there's no, there is no, just look at it. I mean, just the facts of it, understand this, is that the amount of data that was dumped obviously didn't come from a single source. It came from my cloud. It came from years, 20 years of digital, of my digital footprint, all the way back to deleted voicemails, like that deleted voicemail from my dad. Obviously, it wasn't on a single laptop. But there are emails and text messages and deleted text messages and deleted photographs and photographs and all of that stuff. There is the 90% of what is online is from me. But it was all taken and then without any context, just it provided a conspiracy and a narrative where you could say, "Hunter Biden laptop corruption, Hunter Biden laptop Biden crime family, Hunter Biden laptop Ukraine, Hunter Biden laptop China, had 20 years of experience." The thing that people have, the narrative that took hold in the image that was created of me was this near-to-well fell son who has been drifting off of his father's co-tails. I mean, shit, man, what do you like it or not is that I've worked my ass off enough to go to Yale Law School and start my own business and build a family. And they can flate it my addiction with just complete nutter failure. And my addiction to crack cocaine in particular, which is the most kind of graphic part of my addiction. The hardest part was alcohol for me, the most dangerous piece of it was alcohol. And they conflated those two things. And what they did was, is that the New York Post was literally in league with Steve Bannon at a guy named Miles Gow, who's a Chinese billionaire who now is serving 68 years in prison for fraud. And they took one, they were one silo, and they pushed out the images globally. There's a whole tape of them literally talking about it and what they were doing and how they were it took liberty with the images and how they created these narratives outside of the United States and pushed it back in. And then there was Rudy Giuliani, Bernie Kerrick, and Rudy Giuliani's lawyer. And they got their information from a guy named Andre Dirkatch, who was a, a, a Russian operative inside of Ukraine sanctioned by the United States. And they warned Giuliani that he was talking to a Russian operative. And I mean, just the, what just came out from Trump. Remember, he did that document dump. And recently, what the UFO? No, he just did a document dump where he'd had the big press conference to be able to show that election interference in, in 2020. Oh, yeah. One of the documents that they mistakenly released, a classified documents was a report from the NDI saying that Vladimir Putin was personally running a, an op on Joe Biden, using his, using US officials to, to promote disinformation around Hunter Biden. And, and that was it. And they knew it. And Giuliani knew it at the time. Well, what do you think Putin's beef with you would be? Oh, it had no beef. Look, none of this is about me. Right. None of it. I mean, literally. I mean, I don't, I, there's nothing that, I mean, I, I feel like I've had a, I, I, I am comfortable, more comfortable in who I am and what I have achieved in my life. And, and what I haven't in my feelings and more open about it. I think that anybody in, in, you know, that I know of at least right now. But none of it was about me. It's all about power. It's always about the most powerful position in the world in which you have control over, you know, the, the direction of the lives of, you know, an entire planet. And so, Yeah, can you explain that to me like the president? How much like power does the president actually have to be like, here's how we're doing stuff? Well, the, the amount of power that a president has is dependent upon their adherence to the constitution. And so part of it is, is that whether you recognize the limits to your power. And, and, and so, I don't think that, I think that that Trump, for better or worse, I think for way worse, has blown through all of those not just norms, but the, the, the constitution. So you're saying if you stick to the rules, you don't actually have that much power. Well, if you stick to the rules, there is, there is the, the, the, the central piece of the constitution is the separation of powers. And they all stick to the rules. That's what's awesome our president. Every, none of them, none of them necessarily have stuck to the rules. And, for instance, Teddy Roosevelt, who was one of my heroes as a president, despite all of his failings as it relates to his views on race and other things that were, I take a product of his time in, you know, late 1800s or early 1900s. He didn't, but he, you know, what he did, he created, and he used the power, which I don't think that he was necessarily granted by the constitution to create the national parks. He used that power to build the Panama Canal. He used that power to break the trust and, and to completely, my opinion, saved this country from being swallowed up by an oligarchy in the, and the late 1800s or early 1900s, led by John D. Rockefeller. And so he used that power to advance the interest of normal people, common people. And the, and he called it the, the square deal. And his cousin then used it to implement the, the new deal. And, and many people would argue, and they certainly did then, is that he went way beyond his constitutional authority. Abraham Lincoln went beyond his constitutional authority in many instances as related to the way in which he inscribed to people or didn't inscribe people into the, into the civil war. And the way in which he enforced the emancipation proclamation, real question of whether or not there was, that, that, that was constitutionally available to him in the way that he did it. I'm not saying the presidents have not gone outside of the constitutional authority, particularly. I mean, I don't know. Have you ever read the devil's chessboard? I can't read. Okay. Well, there, if you listen to the devil's chessboard. Now, I know you have to, listen to it because I actually, how, I did it while I, while I paint, I always listen to books. And it is a story of the Dulles Brothers beginning before World War I, and their rise to power. One became secretary of state, one became the, the, the founder of the CIA. He's not the founder of the CIA, but the, the guy, and one has Dulles Airport named after him, and the other is probably, you know, the most important person as it relates to our covert agencies of anyone in the country. And he was almost a full-blown fucking Nazi. I mean, literally, I mean, he did more to rescue Nazis after World War II, the really bad ones to come into the United States to go other places. And what do you do that for to get their secrets? Money. Oh, really? Well, but there's, and this is what I've always, what I, what I think, I think that there are two things in this country. One of them is our original sin, as, as relates to slavery. And the fact that we have never fully, and I'm not talking that we reparations or anything, I'm saying, but it's a fact, is that the systemic rot in the United States of America goes back to slavery. And it goes back into the way in which the hypocrisy of the founding fathers as it relates to their principles of freedom and liberty, not necessarily applying to everybody. But the Constitution was built to evolve, and to, that you are, you know, and that's why we have what 26 amendments to the Constitution or whatever. And, but after Lincoln, We had an opportunity in reconstruction and Lincoln had a plan and he, you know, like 40 acres of a mule, like that whole idea. And there was a, there was a real renaissance directly after the Civil War. And like, for instance, in South Carolina, directly after the Civil War, the entire state legislature was black. They elected black, you had a, until a, until there's one town, I forget the name of the town. And the town basically rose up and, and the white people in the town rose up. They murdered every black person that was in a position of authority in the South. And the federal government did nothing about it. Because after Lincoln was killed, Andrew Johnson comes forward and he takes away all of those things. He, and we basically end up with Jim Crow South all the way up until 1968, right, in which the active participation of 10% to 12% of our population was, you know, was not just segregation. I mean, it was a form of apartheid. And, and to say that like, oh, just get over that, we have not structurally gotten over it. There has been a, in my opinion, a permanent Confederacy class in the United States of America. And it's a, it's a mix of Christophashism and, uh, and, and an oligarchy that recognizes the power of, of, of feeding people and narrative in which if you are, if, if you're white and you're, um, and, and you're poor, don't look up, look, look down to find your problems. Yeah. And, and, and I, and I, and I, and whether or not that is the, the full reason that I, I, I see your skepticism around it. And I'm not saying that there is any, um, that, that that is everything. But I am saying this is that we have never truly gotten to the systemic root of, uh, so many of the things that continue to plague us. And it's the same arguments over and over again. I can't believe in 2026. We're still having the same arguments that, you know, we had, you know, when I was like, we shouldn't blow up kids. Perfect. Yeah, let's go. Before real, like that's exactly, you know, that's going to be on the table. You know, blowing up, kids is always on the table for the United States because we're always blowing up kids. Like, no matter who the president is, they always end up blowing up kids. Yeah. Most people have no idea whether testosterone levels sit. But what if I told you there was a solution, something that identifies low T faster than a high school bully and it won't cost you all your lunch money. That's where function comes in. It gives you access to over 160 lab tests, including a deep dive into your full hormone paddle. Every result is reviewed by clinicians. 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It must be the most I can't think of a more deranging situation to go through. You're what? 18 months into sobriety? Two months, what two years of sobriety? You've got a new family, new kid, this thing happens when Palm Springs. It's how I don't understand what that feels like, what they'd like to go through. It was paralyzing in the moment. The only thing I think that I could explain it or articulate it that you would feel it is like remember when you were a kid and you did something really bad and you had this feeling in your chest and you don't know what to do. You just don't want to leave your room. Whatever it is. That's what it felt like and I didn't know what was going to happen next. There was no path. It wasn't like I'm going to choose you of bribery and you would create because of this. I can deal with that because I know it's not true and I can show you the paperwork and I can show you what I did and I can show you this and the other thing. In this instance, it was like we got naked pictures of you smoking crack with prostitutes in a motel and we're going to dump them all online. Now, thank God not by any design is that right when I got sober, I did an interview with a guy named Adam Antos who was writing for the New Yorker at the time in which I don't know where it came from but it was a miracle. I just decided to tell him everything on the record about all about my addiction. Everybody thinks that that was some kind of PR, you know, like a genius kind of thing and it truly wasn't. It was literally like Adam Antos, I knew to be a really great writer, a fair journalist and I just thought, you know what, like, can I get any hiding this? Other people thought that it was a gambit to front-run future headlines that we're going to come out so that you could say, "Oh, I've already got out ahead of it." Yeah, well, the first person, Adam told me, the first person that called him was Steve Bannon and said, "You scooped us." And I didn't know that until after the laptop came out because they had the laptop. Was there ever a moment when you thought that potting stuff could bring down your dad's presidency? Yeah, yeah, yeah, then in the, I mean, so it goes up on all social media feeds and for like the 72 hour period of time, it's up, but then they take it down, which makes it so much worse that they take it down. Yeah, okay. I mean, it's the barbarous driving effect. It's like triple conspiracy. Yeah, and the reason that they took it down is one reason, is because it violated their terms of service, is because what they were putting up is new pictures of me without my consent, which is called revenge porn, which is now a federal criminal statute that Melania got to test. Hunter, may I ask you a, it's a personal question, something I think people are curious about. Yeah. Why did you take all those pictures, like, you know, and I understand you were like smoking, right? Yeah, you look great. But like, what? When I'm like, on a bender, the last thing I want is like snap and chill. Here's the thing, is it true? Go look at the pictures. Is that most of the pictures that you see, I didn't take, who took them? I'm asleep. Like, one of them, like, one of those always that's shown all the time over and over again is me with a meth pipe in my mouth, sleeping. Who do, who sleeps with that? That's, I was curious about that too. I always thought when you smoked meth, yeah, I never thought I didn't, I wasn't a meth mover. I hate meth, but how did the pipe in it? You're trying to be cool with a meth pipe in it. No, okay, I get that. I get that. Yeah. No, it is not cool. The meth pipe in your mouth is much cooler. How did you fall asleep? Did they put it in your mouth? How did you fall asleep with them? They put it in your mouth. Somebody to, I was asleep. Somebody took their meth pipe, put it next to me and took a picture, and then put it online. And they then collected all of this stuff. Go back and look at the pictures. Now, there's some that are like me. There's some. The sex tapes are real. I took them. That was me. Yeah, for sure. And that's confidence. Yeah. Why would they take these pictures? But by the way, here's the reason. So I was out of my fucking mind. It's just out of my mind. You're so alone. There's nothing even remotely romantic about it. I don't talk about how I make crack to romanticize it. I don't, I just, all of that I talk about is addiction and the whole reason to do any of this, there's 50 million people right now in America. And I think it's way more. 50 million people are dealing with their own problems and their struggles with addiction. Which means that everybody at this table undoubtedly has someone that they care deeply about, that has dealt with, that is dealing with life threatening addiction. Everybody. So we all talk about it like, what the hell happened? Well, I don't know. You know what I mean? Driki gallon of vodka and smoke, um, you know, about, you know, three grams of crack, you know, on a, and any 24 hour period of time, is that, you know, and so also what happens is you don't, there's no one normal to associate with once you're in that. Right. And so what you're around are people that are very, very predatory. Who will you associate with? Mainly strippers and, and, and everything that comes around that. And, and I'm not denigrating anybody that is an exotic dancer in any way. Thank you. But that is where, yeah. It's part of your play. But by the way, but that is where you find actually, access to drugs. That's where you find access to company and that is where you have there's no confusion about what your relationship is. And so you end up in this world of this culture in which everything is what you can get from the other person. And oftentimes it was you know I mean like I'm positive like I know reporters has said that you know people were selling them photographs into this you know into this thing. So anyway regardless I the other side of it was the other thing is that you know the you know yeah there's some sex tapes in there that then they're all mine. I'm so sorry and I don't want to seem like a weirdo I'm just curious I've always been curious I'll be a film that's also pumping. Did you go back and watch yourself pumping? Sorry to take you never went and it's like when you film fireworks nobody goes back and looks at the fireworks. Yeah okay. But by the way here's the thing man is it you know what is it what I do that's over? No. But here and the other part of it is so but am I the first person to you know freaking to film themselves making a the sex tape? Nothing wrong with that. Not even like I don't know like why Tommy Lee and when what's your name do it why did you know I mean like whatever and I certainly if not Tommy Lee but my point is is that when you're addicted to crack I and it is never let look my drug use can never be an excuse okay never excuse for any of the behavior I'm accountable for all of yeah no matter what it's still me whether I was out of my fucking mind or not. Got it but it is an explanation. Sure yeah I love it by the way by the way it's not it's not an explanation that I know that you're not that we all aren't like hopefully willing to have the grace to to extend to the people that we love yeah in order not to forever shame them or tell them that they have to wear the scarlet A of addiction for the rest of their life because otherwise nobody I am and by the way I am the beautiful so the end of your to get to the very end of what your question is how did I react to the laptop coming out at first it was paralyzing it was awful and leading into two weeks before the election I'm thinking oh my god you know and election which we all know that there's going to be you know on the margins regardless of whether we won by eight million votes or whatever the hell it is it always comes down to you know hundreds of thousands of votes in these states and and it was like not only am I going to going to fuck this up for my dad the person who I adore most in the world but I'm gonna fuck it up for the whole world like this is like if if you were on the other side of this election you were voting thinking like this is like existential and so I just didn't like and the first thing your brain tells you no matter how far out you are can be less in terms of the intensity is I know how you shouldn't feel how you can get out of feeling this way and you better do it because if you don't do it I mean your brain literally telling you this the thing you do to relapse at that time I don't know you know I I mean I don't know because I choose not to like to to go back there I don't know have you ever listened to Chase Hughes yes he's been on the show I'm not saying he's amazing he just did a video I mean he just did he dropped this thing a day ago two days ago about memory and how there is no such thing as memory every time we go back and think of it it there is no original recording we tape over every time and whatever the last recording is it becomes the memory until you take over rewriting it as opposed to rewriting it yeah so I don't know how close I was I choose to say today my memory of it is this is the morning after it came out and it was on the front page in New York Post and there's a naked picture of me like you know with all that stuff okay and then filled with naked pictures behind it and it's everywhere and I'm not on social media at this time so I don't I don't know about that part of it but it's everywhere I couldn't sleep all night and I but like six in the morning my six month old is up and we and I had to do our routine you know and I rolled over in bed and I looked at this woman who had saved my life beautiful one in every way that had saved my life in this perfect little angel and I was like that you got a choice yeah I mean and and what a gift that is you know to have most everything in life from my experiences is it's like yeah you could do this or you could do that like yeah like to me it became you either do this and live or you die because can you imagine if I relax in I mean I would be so dead the level of shame that I would have had there's no there would have been no way to hide it there would have been no I would literally it would have been I the faster way would have been to take a gun to my head yeah that would have and and but I but I was wholly cognizant up at the time and what a fucking gift that is because you know what most people have to go through it and you know fight their way to like you know go spend seven years in Rishi Keshen and you did the Navy Seal Hell Week equivalent yeah exactly what you do for me what I do I just chose to live man oh oh the when I you're kicked you're gonna rehab in June of 2019 yeah no I'd gone to so many rehabs Melissa she's like it ends now and like within a week of her saying that you know I was off crack and then within like three weeks of that I had my last drink and it was hard like the alcohol is the is the most frightening part of of of of detox because you can actually die from from withdrawing from alcohol and like with benzos the same thing which is like freeze dried alcohol basically because it it impacts every organ in your body alcohol does every pleasure center of your brain the crack cocaine is you know three days and it's out of your system and you know you there's no physiological impact maybe a little bit of grain is in the way that you like everything appears to you but but the alcohol is the hardest part you seem incredibly sharp for somebody that's had pretty protracted addiction for a long time you know why is that I I benefit from the advantage of the lowest expectations of probably any guess you've ever had exactly like oh my god yeah yeah well by the way totally pickled yeah I don't exactly maybe maybe it preserved the the parts oh we like putting in formaldehyde yeah exactly but I don't know I um you know but here's the thing about that is like you know smart as fucking people I know are recovering addicts you know um and um yeah I was on the side I was on the side that's a couple of years ago during the did you ever you ever think that your dad might not give you the pod in oh yeah if he if he had won he wouldn't pardon me damn he 100% that's you'd have been grounded yeah I mean by the way yeah that's exactly right in my 50s and I'm grounded again I mean that's high stakes yeah but he did such a good job I mean I think you know you're talking earlier we all have we all know people yeah who have just like when someone is an active addiction it is it's like it's like having a honey badger but it's in your family just eating everything up and I remember your dad was so loving to you yeah like it was he was so sweet with you and that's really hard to do because when it's someone's like you know addicts ruin not just their own life they ruin like communities they ruin and they do it every it's like a nuclear bomb it's a nuclear bomb and you don't know what to do it's like a demon is possessing somebody did 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and using the code modern wisdom check out What are the coolest things about your dad that nobody knows or that you wish more people knew? Hmm That's a tough one because You know people know so much or at least they think that they know so much I think the thing about my dad that is That I wish more people knew is how Genuine he truly is about how much he loves people, you know, I'll give you an example is it I think my dad Since he's been in public life and the number has just only grown over the course of time but probably has You know a dozen Or you know more people kids that That he's met at rope lines or people have written a letter that stutter They call my dad and spend half an hour on the phone with him, you know once a month You know in that voice coaching. Yeah, just letting them know that, you know, don't be defined by this You know, I mean as he says he tells every one of them is that you know stuttering It's it's because you're so smart and you know, I mean I like he'd listen to him and he that I mean nobody knows that And he doesn't it's not like he advertises that but I've gotten it so many now that I'm on social medium Who wishes? You know I don't know long that's gonna last but the Yeah, something else to drop. No, no, I mean just like Like god, it looks like you're having a good time on that. Yeah, you have parts of it on you. I am what but I can I ask you just So when you were so what no not you when your dad was running and everyone was going and I'm not trying to be a dick When it was like seem visibly Like obvious that he was getting a little too old I think to like actually be the president like there were signs unless it was just a TV there were signs of cognitive decline I felt bad. I was like why are they doing this to this guy? Like that that seems like insane that we would like anyone who's in their mid 80s Yeah, get out there and just have like the most important discussion ever. Yeah, well look. I think that there are I think part of that's fair and part of that is is your algorithm Now here's what I mean by that my dad got old He got old before everybody's eyes. He literally lost a step. He started to Get his gate shortened, which was very much noticeable He never had an a a incident like the debate Before or after I mean it truly and it's not like I'm saying that and you don't have Thousands of hours of tape on either side of that debate of my dad in front of a camera and What you're talking about I think is kind of like the Fox news, you know, like getting Joe Biden like this, you know what I mean Tripping out the thing but regardless okay, but to answer your question. Yeah, this he got older. Yeah, yeah, and do it do I Am I 100% certain that he was capable of continuing to make the decisions and do the job of actually What the president is supposed to do. Yes. Did he have the ability to communicate that to the American people to the degree that he needed to win an election? maybe maybe not and But we'll never know I agree with you about how I felt you know watching that debate It really felt and to some degree as well with Trump like the guy is old These are old men and what you're doing is you're watching Guys that should be fucking granddad. I'm not saying that you need to fucking retire whatever like I'm sure people are competent until old age You're watching people that should be Twilight of life enjoying the time with what they built like Punstronc box keeping rolled out for one more fight that I'm like you're trading and it's noble in heroic in some ways You're trading your health your time which is increasingly limited on this planet for like the nation You're just trying to hold this thing or maybe it's not the nation. Maybe it's a party Maybe it's a duty for the higher gutter that's part of the mission But you're like watching this person basically go, okay, I'm gonna take this bit of me Which is increasingly precious and short lived and I'm gonna exchange it in order to serve this fucking engine Right this massive machine and I think anyone that's got a soul looked and was like holy fuck That's got to be that's got to be so hard. You've got these two things you want to do plus you're like ego still exists Like again, I think what is rotten. I don't mean rotten But what must be very hard about your incarnation is that you people dissect your family and you and it's and I'm so sorry Because it sounds insistive but when I saw your dad I just thought you know I don't think I'd want to take a road trip with him driving and if I don't feel comfortable With somebody driving a car with me. I don't want them to have access to a nuclear arsenal man Or in all the quick decisions you have to ask you can I ask over? I get your point. Okay, and I get everybody's point all right They were not slamming your dad. No, no, no, no, and it wasn't like all fuckers. It wasn't that I was like this is sad as it relates to Decisions in my dad made they weren't mine, but I'm willing to talk about him as it relates to his age It was it's in it's all public so I don't I don't take it as a criticism It is a conversation that by the way we're all gonna have as You have a ageing America in which people are capable of Continuing to do the thing that they are professional at with the wisdom and the experience that they have in which they're physical Appearance and their physical capacity to do things slows down. Okay, yeah, and so but here's the other side of it is The job of being president is not purely about competence experience and wisdom It is also about the capacity for you to communicate that to people So what he did not communicate to people was that he could drive the car And that's a fair criticism Absolutely 100% is fair now. Should he have stepped aside? For who and what because remember what you're coming off of You're coming off of January 6th. You're coming off the pandemic. You're coming off of the incredible dislocation and disruption of an Economy in which everything went offline for a period of time and which created the largest Unemployment in this history and and and a potential of a recession and you're also coming across this incredible success of two years In which all of that competence and wisdom remember when he became president that said he'll never get a bill passed The Congress is too close. He only had one seat in the Senate and he had four seats in the house There's no way that it'll ever get anything done He passed more legislation in a two-year period of time than any president since Lyndon Johnson who had super majorities in both the House and the Senate Anybody he had the best midterms of any sitting president since FDR in 1932 he won more state houses and governor governorships the smallest number of congressional seats lost of any president since 1932 so he's rolling off of these successes, okay, and Opens up to a primary and who runs there's no bigger name than Bobby Bobby Kennedy There's nobody this whole idea that there's a democratic but it was like since beginning of time Of course, there's a democratic establishment and whatever and so He makes would ends up depending upon your perspective the faithful decision to you know to stand for re-election and Then comes the debate and I can't explain it. I truly can't everybody can have it a conspiracy theories Everybody can think that oh, that's how he is but I can't all I can say is Not a single person that worked with him on the record is gone and said Joe Biden wasn't cognitively capable to be president of the United States You can definitely make the argument of whether he was cognitively capable of or Communicatively capable of of making the case to the American people, but Here's where we you know stand and the one last thing about this Is that when it came time to make the decision, okay? After you know the the what I call the the Insider the true insider the The elite class of the democratic establishment because the DNC is not that there's no It's like the money people is the people the fun the party, okay when they made the determination that they wanted Joe Biden out And basically said we are going to bite you all the way to the convention because they couldn't take it away from him legally I mean he was the nominee. You know period and He got COVID and there's that horrible picture of him getting back on the plane in and because he passed all the hurdles He did the stepanopolis interview for an hour and ten minutes He did the NATO summit press conference for an hour and 30 minutes and answered every question You know a tour de force global like history lesson for everybody and then he did the NAACP Convention speech and and all of that stuff and he went to do the next morning. He gets COVID and it wipes him out And he has to make a decision That I don't know of any other president or any other person in that position has ever made before to voluntarily Without being forced to without having any legal authority of saying, "I'm going to step aside." And I think that's really courageous. I don't think history is treating that. I think history will treat that well. But also, I think my dad hung the moon. So, you know what I mean? It's not like I'm biased in any way. What was that stat about your dad being the poorest president since 1900? Yeah. My dad entered the presidency and left the presidency with fewer assets than anybody since. I think what was here or who came up taxed maybe? No, but regardless, is that when 1972, when my dad got elected, he was 29 years old. He was too young to serve when he was elected by virtue of the Constitution. And he turned 30 and when he, in between the time, he won and when he was sworn in. And he made a promise during that campaign that he would never own a stock or a bond. For the single purpose of reason that Spiro Agnew had just gone through that, you know, had gotten impeached and removed before Nixon ever got impeached. And he kept that. So, he lived off his salary, which by the way, it wasn't a bad salary, but just remember, 1972 was like $48,000 a year. And then it went up to $68,000. And then when I was in, you know, school, it was like $150,000. I didn't know it from Nancy Pelosi. Yeah. But my point is this. My dad entered the vice presidency that way. The only time my dad ever made money. You know, the Biden crime family bullshit. My dad wrote a book. And what did you do with the money that he wrote a book? When he left the vice presidency, he didn't go out and make speeches for private equity firms and fly this out of Arabia and, you know, sit on the board of, you know, XYZ hedge fund or whatever. He wrote a book and he bought my mama a beach house in Rehobus, you know, awesome. Yeah. And then he went into the presidency with the savings from that money and his pension. I mean, he left the presidency and the only thing my dad does done to make money is he wrote a book. And, you know, I don't know about you, but that's what I want my president to be like. You know, I don't need them to go out and start a foundation with Saudi and, you know, UAE money or, you know, do a dodgy crypto deal in blah, blah, blah, particularly while they're still president. But that's my dad. Phone. What? You forgot the phone. What about the sneakers? What about the things? Look, by the way, he takes all these cool things. Like, I'm a big crypto person. Have you got one? A suck. What? Have you got one? As a joke, my wife ordered me the Trump sneakers. Other Trump sneakers. There's not good. There's just, they're not good. Peter Teele, or did you do the Trump sneaker? My dearest friend. I don't please cut that out. Please, you don't understand. You love it. You challenged Don Jr. and Eric to a two-on-one cage fight. What's happening with that? Are you guys in my corner? I'm going. Are you really final? No. I mean, I haven't heard back, but I will tell you this. I will tell you this. Is it? I said, well, number one, it would be a great way to pay my debt. I think it would be great. I'm paid for you. Literally. And if Shane could feel, Franklin Field, I mean, I'm Franklin Field, the link, you know, I swear to God, I think that I could at least get half the number of people there. There would be a lot of people, I think. Yeah, I think so too. To be one, just the chance to smack guys on one of them. I'm 56. So you guys really do. It's a thing. Have you been in contact? Can we prank Cole Don Jr. right now? Have you got his number? Can we just ring him? I don't know what's about Don Jr's number. I have no idea. Yeah. No, we call Peter T. I don't. I don't understand. Yeah. I am not in. I don't know him. Never met him. I'm not paid by the fact. Please, please stop. I have a question. This is sort of off. I've always been curious. What is it? Like, the president has some kind of apartment in the White House, right? What is that? Like, like, what's it like, you know, it's so the residents, you know, every kid. Yeah. Kind of thinks like, man, I wish my dad was president. That's going to be cool. You get to go into the residence. You get to see. It's cool. It's so cool. It's so amazing. The people that work there that are. You have buffers and stuff. Yeah. And they're incredible. They're wonderful. And they've been there for decades on some of them. And there's like, for me, at least, in their residence, and every time I went to the White House, there was never without, like, a complete sense of all. Did your dad ever cook your breakfast in there? Like, did they? No, my dad's never cook. President Joe Biden. There was a kitchen in there right there. You guys are cooking egg. Just to be cool. Okay. Yeah. Now, I'm a great cook, but he would know. But there's a kitchen. I just always wonder about that private life of him. There's a little, there's a little kitchen at off the residence. The residence is on the, you know, if you look at the front of the White House, you enter into, like, the main hall. Yeah. It has the public, I mean, the rooms in which like, like, the blue, the red room, the green room, the, you know, where they have some of the stakeholders and stuff like that. Where you always see the pictures and the cross hall, like, you know, the red carpet and the floor above it. The two floors above it are the residents. And there's the one end of it is all the presidents, you know, like quarters and the first ladies. And then there's the Lincoln bedroom, the Queen's bedroom. And then there's a whole, there's like six or eight other bedrooms upstairs to get stuff like that. Secret doors. Yeah. Oh, yeah. There's secret doors. Are you serious? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Do you get shown? Do you get shown? Like, Hey, this is how you. The doors that are secret that aren't secret anymore. You know, I mean, you see, like, long, just a line in that wall. 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We're heading to drinklmnt.com/modern wisdom. If you ever, you ever in the White House and think like it's not as cool as I thought. No, really, you're always like this rules rules. Just rules. Well, here's what you think. I mean, if you have any kind of like appreciation for where you are, it's like holy shit. Like it's insane. Think not this actual floor because it's been done true and did it, you know, I mean, it's not the same, but it's like on this grounds, you know, the course of history has been changed, dozens and dozens and dozens of times and sometimes for goods, sometimes for real ill and it's got to be so haunted. Yeah, I bet you. Is that haunted? Did you ever have any ghost encounters there? Am I? I didn't know. I'm sorry. This is the most important direction I want to go in. Okay, great. Yeah. Is it haunted? Is there like, it's. Well, I mean, like, yeah, they say that, but I didn't have much of a walk around there at night, just like staring at shadowing your job. Oh, yeah. 100%. I mean, no, no, here's the thing is I didn't get to spend much time there. And one of the reasons I didn't get to spend much time there is because every time I was there, it became an incredible distraction. So I'd show up and I'd go walk in the south lawn with my dad and the dog and they'd take a picture and it would be on the front page of New York's supposed and they would say the indicted or the soon to be indicted or the drug addict son or the thing. And so it became really, really uncomfortable. Like, it might suck if your dad has finally made it. This is the opportunity for me to be the son that gets to have presidential pancakes. Yeah. And because of the way that kind of we arrived, I don't get to fully, I can brace that. Let's go to soccer. Yeah, you know, but thank you. Well, you're not that I'm not supposed to be there to have fun. No, no, no, I'm saying, yeah, you are, by the way, if you can't then it's crazy. I mean, but, but thank you for saying that. But I can't say that because like, oh, what was me? Like, fuck that, dude. So my dad's president. My dad works for 50 years to become president. I want fucking pancakes. Well, by the way, not only 20 days, 20, 25 days, you said, out of the entirety of the time you got to stay at the white. Yeah, maybe. Like more, well, no, probably more than that. Like I think like 30 or 40 and I got to go to camp David and I get to fly in Marie one end, you get to go on in force one and every time you do, you think, oh my god, this is the coolest thing. And I think if you don't, you're a jackass. I mean, if you lose that, like if you lose like the walk it in, like walking down the colony to the oval office without the feeling of like, holy shit, then I think that you, that's pretty pretty. Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, but I didn't get to spend as much time with him as, as I normally would have. If it weren't for the fact that I was a crack attic, pictures of it. And I was being investigated by the prime justice for, you know, this, that, the other thing. That bag of coke at the White House wasn't yours. No. Okay. - How upset were you to someone else found this? - Okay, I've literally, I've listened to all of you. I've listened to you have your guest on. And you're all like, I don't know. I don't know, it could have been his, but I guess. - Who's to think it was? 'Cause it's fucking someone. - I have little clue. - It's someone. - Pull up a diagram of the-- - Who's the fucking biggest hit list? - Of the White House, okay? - Let's see. - Diagram of White House. You're gonna place the bag of cocaine. - How big was the sack? How big were we talking? - I have no idea. - I mean, they didn't come to me and tell you. - We want to show you this. - Well, you could have-- - Honor, come here. - We're aware that you might be able to trace why this came from. Here we go. - Okay. - So if you look at that, okay, so you see there, see where it says White House in the middle, okay? So the West Wing is where the Oval Office is. The White House is where the residence is. I am under Secret Service Protection during this period of time. When I enter the White House, I enter off of the South Lawn, which is the big ellipses, you know what I mean? Like the circular driveway on the southern part. - Okay. - So you enter the White House through the middle? - Right right to the middle. And right as you go through the middle, you go to an elevator and you go up to the residence, okay? That is how the Secret Service brings me in and they're with me, like as far as you are from me, everywhere I go, outside of making it to the elevator to go up to the second floor. - Not that bathroom, if you want to do key bumps, you can go in the bathroom. - Other than the bathroom, yeah, true, okay? - True enough, thank you for pointing that out. That was very helpful, mother fucker, I swear to God. - Where was it fail, where was it? - Now, situation room, was it fail? - No, yeah, so see where it says West-Exec Avenue? - Yep, okay. - So that's where everybody else that is a part of the administration comes into the White House. So the Eisenhower Executive Office Building is where 90% of the people that say they work at the White House work, okay? And when they come over for meetings with the Chief of Staff or the Director of National Intelligence or whoever else is in the West Wing, they come through there. And when you go through there, you enter in on the ground floor. Above you is the Chief of Staff's Office and the Oval Office, okay? And on that ground floor, as soon as you walk in, there's a desk, there's another secret service agent, a uniform secret service agent. And if you go on the other side of that desk and take a right, there's a hallway. And that end of that hallway is the situation room, of which I've never been in, because you're not allowed in the fucking situation room unless you have top secret clearance. - Hey dude, the fucking president's son doesn't get to hang in the situation. - Okay, and in that right in front of that door is a set of cubbies, okay? And the only reason I know that is because if you go to your left, there's a little cafeteria, like, not even, it's like a table set up for the Chief of Staff and their offices to come have like a bowl of soup or whatever to eat. And in those cubbies is where they found it. And supposedly found a little bag of cocaine. - Well, the soup. - Number one, I'm not choking around, okay? And I don't know how much of it is, what? - You should be like, I do fat sacks only. - Yeah, by the way, not only that, is I smoke crack? - True. - I smoke crack. - I'll say this though. - But by the way, I'm now, at this point, I'm not in the White House when it's found. I haven't been in the White House for six weeks to a month when it's found, all right? - Although this does sound like the part of the movie where we're like, you know, we have the diagram, it sounds like we're planning on how we could get cocaine in the White House. - You know what they go through like the ducks in the movie? - What the fuck? (laughing) You know what, that's why you went to Sally's and I went to Arch here, okay? - Exactly. - Yeah, it's exactly. - No, it's a duck on the south lawn. - You've opened it up, it's coming. (laughing) - This is never gonna die. Okay, I don't, by the way, here's the other tape. - I don't think it was yours, I didn't. - No, but here's the other thing, it's like, are you fucking kidding me? Like, I'll openly talk about having sex on camera with a prostitute, New Haven, Connecticut. - Yeah. - I fucking 95 smoking a crack. But like, I like a-- - I'm not gonna look at the bag of drugs. - I'm not gonna look at the bag of drugs. - Yeah, I'm not gonna look at the bag of drugs. - It's ridiculous. - It is very funny. - It is very funny. - It drives me insane. - Now, that's like, you wanna talk about things that online that you can save. You have your friendship with Peter. Teal the deal with it. - Come on! (laughing) - I know, Peter Dea, you're weird, I'm friends. - You had her as well. - Like, fucking great. - Yeah, great. - This is the last thing. - You know what? I literally, this is how I'm too silent. I was like, oh, that's weird. (laughing) - Kind of went about my day. - I was, I was what, four or five years over by this point? I was like, and by the way, like I'm thinking like, who, like, if I relapse, not, oh, here's the other thing. I'm gonna do the bag of drugs. - I'm being drug tested, but you know what I'm being drug tested by? The federal bureau of fucking probation who's fucking showing up at my house. - They watch you pay. - Two or three times a week without not telling anybody to deal with the secret service. They just walk into my, walk into your house. Like, the sick say, yeah. - It's true, they knock on your bedroom door. - And they watch you, right? Like, yeah. - Oh yeah, and then they walk you into the bathroom and close the door with them standing like this. - Watching you, watching you cock. - Yeah. - You can't use the Wizzinator. - Could use the Wizzinator technically. - What's that? - Was it the Wizzinator? - Oh yeah. - Yeah. - What's the Wizzinator? - Wizzinator's like a fake penis. - All right, I should have had the Wizzinator when I was a baby. - Exactly, yeah. - Is it true that you still pack your bag with a witness? Is it you still doing that? You have to pack your bags? - Yeah. - Have you heard this? - Yeah, it's called a wife. They watch you, you know, that's how you're bringing in. - Yeah. (laughing) - It's true. - It's where it got. - I got in a little discussion before I left for here. - She said, "You can fit it all in the backpack." I said, "I like my little Rolly bag. "I put my backpack on top of the towel. "I have to see why you take it." - Without fail. - But what are the wide spushing for more storage of that? - It doesn't matter. They go, you know, that's too much or that's, no matter what you pack, too much. - That's too little. - Yeah, right. That's wrong. - By the way, I just want to make clear. Listen, I did not use the voice and that is different. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't know what. I use like a cart before someone works. - You don't sound like that. - Yeah, it's so bad. It's so funny. - I don't sound like that either. - Yeah, that sounds an all going well. - Okay, here's the thing is that is the reason is, and the only one I travel internationally, is that if it's out of my sight, I just think that, look, can you imagine if I got pulled over and they found drugs, you know, on me, who would believe me? Like, if you can't believe me about that, the 9,000 times that I've said, are you out of your mind? I wasn't there. You can check on the fact that I wasn't there. You can see that it wasn't. Like, in front of the, I mean, like all of these things. - It's too small. - Can you imagine, you know, like, what would you do? And, you know, also, here's the other thing. Do you put a past any of these guys for shit like that? - No way. The plant, it could have been dropped for sure. It's been like, dude, drop it down. - Yeah. So, you know, I want, like here, like, the thing that I am, I want all the questions. Like, there's nothing off limits. I want to, I want to be able to, because the thing that I think is the only value that I have, truly, because you don't have to agree with my politics. You don't have to agree with, I think, about Donald Trump. You don't have to agree that, well, I hope everybody agrees that fucking the Beavis and Butt-Header total douchebag, Donald and Eric. But, is it, you don't have to agree with any of this. - Fighting talk. - Fighting talk. - Beavis and Butt-Head is so funny. - It's so true. Good look. - Oh, fuck. - Okay. What's their deal? I don't know anything about them. - Rich jerks. - Well, they're rich jerks now. Like, really, really rich jerks. But the, is it, the one thing that I, did I, like, just, to be, like, a symbol, like, fuck it, I made it. Even, like, you can't, too. Like, if I could stay clean and sober through all of that shit. And, and get on the other side of an addiction that you can go look at, how fucking awful it was. Is that, it's like, I just think, like, for that reason alone, to be out here talking to people and to show that I can sit up right in the chair and I can write about it and I can talk about it without any, um, shame. That doesn't mean I don't feel guilty about shit. - Yeah. - Doesn't mean that I made horrible decisions and absent it myself from my family and my children in particular. Doesn't mean that I'm even remotely perfect in, in my recovery. - Mm-hmm. - You know, and, uh, but, you know, there is another, there is getting to the other side of stuff. And being transparent about it isn't a, a weakness. It's a, it's a, it's a strength. - You are everywhere at the moment. Would you ever consider running for office? Is there a thrust that this is working on? - No, I mean, people, I, I'm, I'm even honored you would, you would ask that with a straight face. Because, um, I, I really am. Because think about that. Think about asking that question, you know, before May 21st of this year when I went on X for the first time, um, yeah. And so I, I really appreciate that if it was said with sincerity, but, you know, I tell people, if you, if, if I know, us for something within the next few years, then you will certainly know that I've relapsed. (laughing) - I do think there's something universally respectable about someone who goes through, I mean, it's everyone can agree, that's ever, I would say everyone's worst nightmare and just can like face the public and talk. Usually, I think most people will run away from that. It's like I'm out, I'm just gonna kind of hide away. Now, so what are you working towards though? I mean, you are making the rounds. What's, what do you have designs to do? - I don't know, I'm trying to, I really am. I am, I got some things that, I mean, I'm writing on Substack and I wrote a continuation of like the last seven years from my personal perspective and then I wrote another one. Thank you very much AI to that allowed me to take all of the collective congressional reports and reporting journalism and kind of like, what happened in those seven years of the things that I wasn't in the room for, like the Giuliani plot and that thing. And so I wrote that, but the one thing that I really, really wanna do is I think that one of the ways in which people, at least for me, I know this is how it helped me. Is the single, the thing that helped me most in my recovery was sharing like, hearing other people's stories. It's realizing that you weren't alone in whatever you thought that depravity was that you were living in. And like, I remember the first time I sat in the room thinking there's no way that I'm gonna be able to share this with another human being and like, the guy next to me that tells a story and I'm like, holy fuck. (laughing) Oh my God. I mean, me blush and I'm like, hey, you know, like they become, it's gonna be a very impressive story to out degenerate you. Me, yes, exactly. And was it a global incident though? Did it move stock markets? Did it change in election? Yeah, true. You know who I talk, like the reason I, and this is why I love him is the openness with which Steve Van talks about and stuff like that. I was listening to your interview with Steve Van, and there's like one part where, anyway. Yeah, I don't even want to go through it, because I was just, yeah. Yeah, I don't remember. But they're, they're, I don't know what you're talking about. What the hell? Yeah. Yeah. No, I think it's better off to get as much out as possible 'cause it's just, I don't know. Yeah. It's good. I think it's good for you, it's good for everybody. The thing that kills you, you're an addict. At least for my experience is, you keep in that, like secret, and that shame. And there's a big difference between shame and guilt. You know, shame is basically the thing that tells you that you're not worthy of love and you never will be. Guilt is like an appropriate emotion in which you do something wrong. You gotta go make a man's for it. If you live in that shame and you're never able to, like, let it go because it's a secret, you know. I mean, just crack. Just talking about being a crack addict. Automatically, it sends, at least people that are, you know, relatively RAs into a freaking tailspin. Yeah. Like, their mind goes to, why do you think that is? Oh, I think it's number one. I think it is, it has to do with the connection to race that was created as it relates to the crack epidemic of the early 1990s. It has to do with the reality of the way in which it impacted. Certain communities, particularly the African American. Do you buy the CIA was flooding? Yeah. Communities with cocaine on purpose that that was real. Remember when they found that CIA plane to fall a coat? What's the story behind that? 'Cause I've heard it, but I don't actually know the story. Do you know it? I don't know the story to the degree that I should, but I look, I mean, if you want to understand, like, the crack, I mean, from, like, is, watch the wire. Like, what is that season, you know? Is that not fiction? What? Is that not fictional though? It is fiction, but if you really want to understand the way that it is-- I think the writer was a journalist, though. And Bob, maybe I could be wrong. I think he walked out there. George Pelicanos was one of the writers on that, and then what's his name, but the, but yeah, I mean, it's all ripped from the pages kind of stuff. Yeah. And my only point is, is it really did destroy entire communities, but it didn't have to do with what they thought it did. They thought that it was particular to the physiological effect that the crack had on people. That's where the lie is. It had to do with the financial aspect of the drug, is that you could sell and make very cheaply and over and over and over again, and small quantities. And you just create this, this market that was insatiable to feed. And so it was, the violence was occurring because of the unfettered drug trade. There was so much money in it. And if you lived, for instance, like I did in the late '80s, early '90s in Washington, DC, it was, I mean, it just ripped through Washington. You had, you know, and what ripped through Washington was the violence that came along with the trade and the force and the attempt to enforce the drug laws. And so they would crack down on communities and users rather than the people truly committing the violence was for the dealers and, you know, up the chain. And up the chain, I'm certain involved, you know, some covert operation that's related to it. And they didn't have anything to do with the intent of like ripping apart our cities, it would have some other intent. - What do you think, what do you think, what do you think, what do you think, just to get, just to wait and get untraceable money or something like that, like the day was selling. - I'm honestly, I'm not up to date on that conspiracy, but remember they found a CIA plane full of blood, which was insane, like they're trading it to get cash. - So just like the, just like the IRA in contract, you know what I mean, is like the, I mean, it's all about ways to move money and to move weapons in an untraceable way. In order to be able to do that, you like end up going into business with, you know, the really bad guys, you know, or looking the other way when, you know, they're doing what they're doing. - I've learned from over a thousand podcast episodes that the easier you make your health routine, the more consistent you'll be. It's like golf, right? You want to keep it simple and not mix a bunch of pills. You want the eye of the tiger, not the DUI of the tiger. That's why I'm such a huge fan of AG1. One scoop contains 75 vitamins, minerals, probiotics, and whole food source ingredients in a single daily drink. And now they've taken it a step further with AG1 next gen back by four clinical trials. And in those trials, it was shown to fill common nutrient gaps, improve key nutrient levels in just three months and increase healthy gut bacteria by 10 times, even in people who already eat well. 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The cat lady, the adult thing. Remember? Right. I'm meaning, like, supernatural, spiritual putx is on you. Oh. I mean, like, actual witches. Dude, are there some here right now? I don't know. [LAUGHTER] I think everyone's got a couple of conspiracies. They kind of hold in their mind. They're like, I kind of believe this. OK, I've got one. And if I could, and again, apology never ends. It bit has to do with the fucking coke in the wake. [LAUGHTER] I've been listening to you. Done. Here's a conspiracy theory that you must be aware of that floats around about you. And forgive me for this, but I must know. On your back, you have a tattoo of the finger legs. And people say that this is tattooed on your back, because the finger legs are, apparently, one of the number one ways that humans are trafficked, and that you have placed. You didn't know this? No. Please, can we talk-- Oh, my god. Oh, man. You don't go online. You don't go. Pull up Hunter Biden finger legs tattoo. The same way everybody's asking me what's the tattoo? Yes. What's a finger leg? That you have a human trafficking leg. I do. So the finger legs are these glacier legs. They're those beautiful legs in the country. And they are an upstate New York. My mother-- my deceased mother-- came from skinny Atlas, New York. And then the leg next to it is a wasco leg. And a wasco at the top of a wasco leg is a town named Auburn, where the Hunter Diner is. And my grandfather and my grandmother owned and ran the Hunter Diner, which is still there. It's just like a silver diner. And that's where I am. My mother grew up and that's when my brother and I spent every summer with my my mom To see my my deceased mother's Empress and so it's like the most special place in the world to me It's the thing like what you're saying and I was now what I'm saying what the internet is What I've read okay, I don't understand where you traffic because they're all in lock Would you traffic? Look up finger lakes? Don't don't come it's such a beautiful place It's also so funny to be doing that like I'm gonna tag it just in case people If you get lost, it's like please return to Like a dog collar just in case you get And so my I didn't believe that by the way, I just it's a conspiracy theory that I didn't heard that one You must you must believe this story again Spearsy theories I'll be honest I When I was younger I remember when what was the one documentary that came out it was the ring of power Came out when I was like 21 and you know you're 21 years old He's got a college and they're like DVDs that would go around and be like England Washington DC in Rome are all connected in this triaxle of satanic power And you just watch it 21 you're like damn world's crazy and then you get older and you're like yeah I don't think anyone knows what the fuck's going on about anything so in terms of conspiracy theories I honestly don't really you I don't know anything do you believe remote viewing that's I mean I'll give you one Oh, here we go. I'll give you one that I believe Read the devil's chessboard, but she's an incredible book about the delus brothers and it's hard not to come away with a With the belief that it was not a CIA operation, but that CIA Assets were involved in the assassination of JFK. It's really really difficult to to to not um To explain What's the most compelling Elements of that the individuals and I forget their names. I wish I like I had that kind of memory, but that that were were very very close to Alan Delas Delas is hatred of JFK and And The I mean anyway, there's there's there's a lot and I because I don't I I don't want to say something that I get it I get it wrong and it'll be like honor Biden's promoting it, you know He's like I don't know whatever you're saying the CIA killed No, no, they're saying the operatives within the CIA. I'm saying that it's very difficult to see how there is not a That they're that there wasn't Knowledge within the CIA of an operation. Yeah, so you're saying you know that the CIA killed you're saying you know I keep going with the Peter kill That one's that one's almost commonplace. I got that for the rest of the life. I do have a substance. I have a I have a Exocamator, Twitter account. Wow. I just came from modern wisdom and this is what I learned aliens in every 51 That's yeah, what about the aliens? No, I don't like I'm with Elon on that one. I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't think that they're Like I think if there were aliens That I believe that there there must be I mean the the size and the scope of the universe is beyond anyone's even remote comprehension and but I don't I don't think any of them Well, what about all those UAPs there's show you all these what do you think is going on with this like you know I so here's a I don't know if this is even a conspiracy. Trump's in the Epstein files What 6,000 plus times that's not a conspiracy. That's not that's real and then right after that He releases the UAP file if people are saying that was a some sad attempt at a distraction Yeah, but regardless they keep releasing all of this formally classified Information regarding whatever this phenomena is and yeah, that's real. I mean that doesn't happen I 100% agree with that that that is all a distraction From what we're what we know to be a fact which is that Donald Trump name is in the Epstein files as much or more than any other person's name other than Jeffrey Epstein. Okay, and Here's the the here's one that I believe I think that QAnon was a siop to distract us from Epstein I think that that that Andrew Callan. You guys listen to Andrew Callan. Yeah, he's brilliant Andrew's literally one of the most brilliant Journalists that I've ever come across just as a as a person and did really brilliant and his theory is Is that if you look at QAnon and what they were saying, you know, pizegate and that there's a you know the cabal of you know Democrats and things like that It was to distract you from the actual very very real story of Jeffrey Jeffrey Epstein and and what every not everybody People and and and the major intelligence communities knew was going on or were participating It's gonna say cuz QAnon was way way way before the Epstein files, right? Yeah, yeah, you never figure out who that was like at all Oh, no, no, no, cuz some weren't some of the pictures or some of them actually of like close-ups of politicians or as it just all bullshit. Oh bullshit. Yeah, yeah I want to believe so no, well think about that son of former president, right? You've been in trouble for smoking crack gun charges How does it feel to not be in the Epstein files? I feel good does that like give you a kind of moral high ground the rest of the elite. Nobody even feels better is it? Okay, 22 years of my digital footprint Okay, every single text message every single email every single photograph every single voicemail that was Eraser deleted that they were able to pull up There's not one instance that you will find in which you will see an email from me to anyone else saying hey dad or Hey, so-so who works for that? I need you to do this for me on behalf of a client. I'm getting paid for it Did I mention one single time? Did I mention I'm friends with Peter T.O. You see? That is that's a fair point. What is the whole? What's your take on everyone's fascination with the barisma stuff? Okay, well here's that monster dot com you Ukraine is a is a is a viper still and it was stupid of me to go on to the board But when I went on to the board you gotta remember it was the there was a year and a half left in the Obama administration My brother had just been diagnosed with terminal brain cancer. He was given two years to live and I get a Devon archer this the guy that I ever had considered a great friend who He's got a pardon from Trump It is out like bashing me like every chance that he gets comes to me and he says hey, there's this Ukrainian gas company they need help because they're there they're the reason that Putin is invading the Thon pass and the eastern part of of Ukraine and because they control they have a about 40% of all the natural gas production is comes from Parisma and I and they said they need legal help and so I am of counsel to boy-shiller flexor which is one of the most prominent law firms in the world at the time and so I bring them in as a client into boy-shiller I Do work for them. I don't actually do it but the former head of the national security ages at administration who Deputy NSA director and another person that was chief of staff at the State Department who are partners I pass it on to them. They do a crawl report. They do all of this background. What a crawl report Crawl report basically doing a background report on the on the company to see if there's have any major criminal investigations or things like that and After that is all done, I get approached by one of the board members who's a former president of Poland president of Kroganesky and he says Hunter You thank you very much. This has been really helpful to us. You know from I'm a client at a law firm and He said but would you consider coming on the board? And the reason is is because I believe that just simply by being on the board beyond the fact that you have the capacity Remember I'm on I'm serving on like literally ten other boards on the chairman of the board of the center for national policy I'm the chairman of the board of the USU unworked food program largest humanitarian organization in the world serving over 70 million 72 million people in 80 countries, okay? Chairman for over five years at this point. I'm chairman of the board of the Truman National Security Project. I'm a Professor at the Georgetown University School of Foreign Service in the Masters program I am, you know like I got the experience to do it and I served as the the vice chairman of the board for over seven years on The largest national passenger rail system in the world amtrak. What did chairman's of the board do? I'm sort of sad and idiot. I've never been a boy. What is a boy? You are responsible for making certain that the operations and the reporting of a public company, but often a private company, are in order. So it means that you are doing anything from taking the financial reports and making certain that the legal operation is reporting to you and making certain that everybody in the C-suite and all the responsibilities reports to the board, the independent board, and they are tasked with certain decisions based upon the bylaws of that corporation. And that's what a board does. And so I joined the board with an enormous amount of experience, and I decided to do it. And I go to the press and I put out a press release saying I just joined this board, and then it's made clear how much I'm getting paid, which is a fucking whole lot of money. And you know what gives me that ability to do is it gives me the ability to not be on the road eight days a week, you know, trying to make a living while my brother is undoubtedly done. Now this is not post-bought. I made this decision. And it was made purely because of that. That's it. That's the truth. That's 100% truth. Did my dad do anything ever on behalf of Burisma for me, the exact opposite. He fired a prosecutor's name is Shokin. And Shokin is known as the Diamond Prosecutor because he was in the pocket of all of the oligarchs, including the guy that owned Burisma. And he was thwarting any investigation into these organizations. And the entire world community comes and they say to Ukraine, through the mouthpiece of my father, they say, if you don't fire him, the European Union, the UK, the World Trade Organization, the World Bank, they say, if you don't fire Shokin, we are not, we're no longer going to be continued to provide Ukraine with aid. And my dad delivers the message and Shokin is fired. That's the story. It gets completely turned around. And by the way, two thirds of the time that I'm on the board, my dad is neither president nor vice president. Doesn't have any control over anything. But was it smart? Fucking obviously not. I mean, look, I'm still sitting here 10 years later, 11 years later answering questions about it. Yeah. What was the problem really? People assume that it was like, by the way, some strategic position or like exactly. So bribery, it becomes bribery. Okay. And here's the thing. A guy named Alexander Smirnov introduces into the bloodstream of the FBI as an informant that I took a bribe on behalf of my father for what? I don't know exactly what we're doing for this company for Ukraine or whatever. Well, it turns out that Alexander Smirnov is a Russian agent. And he's serving six years in prison right now because they go back and they look at his story and his story is completely fabricated. And how do they know it's completely fabricated because they have me under investigation for the past seven years. And so when he comes in and he says, I have tapes of Hunter Biden in Kiev talking about taking money with these people and here, like, you know, and I can provide the tapes. They say, what are the dates? I never been to keep. Just as part of knows I've never been to keep. So they ask him to explain like, well, what are you talking about? And he goes, no, no, absolutely. Here's the thing. And they go back and they look at what he said like three years ago. And they realize it was an entire Russian op. And it was being run by a guy named Andre Cherkach and a guy named Telezenko and a guy named Dmitry Fertash, who have all been either sanctioned or criminally prosecutor, not by the Biden administration, by the Trump administration for being Russian agents. And it all came through them. And that becomes the bribery thing. And then you have a guy named Gal Loft, who comes along right at the time when I'm about to sign my plea deal. And Gal Loft says from hiding somewhere that that he knows that I'm guilty of bribery also. And you know, he, he, he wrote, well, turns out that Gal Loft, after he makes those comments, that he is under indictment, not by the United States of America, he is now for being an arms trafficker. And a Israeli agent that had been breaking the sanctions as a relate to the irony of money with Chinese, Chinese oil. And he's a fugitive from justice that skipped bail basically in Cyprus where he got arrested and is supposedly living in television. So you can supply the web. That's really, yeah. And when he gets and people's eyes glaze over, we're going to talk about it. But that's, I mean, you have crazy problems like your, your life problem. It's a good way to avoid it. He has problems. Some, the last 15 years, I've really fucking sucked up. Well, here's the other side of it. You know what? I fuck, I can't say that. It's been, I literally, I'm, I am, I, I am more like absolutely certain that I'm not perfect, but I'm more absolutely certain of who I am. And happier every day when I wake up, I wake up at five o'clock in the, in the morning, every day. And I can't wait for the day. Yeah. Now sometimes, like, it's like, you know, like normal life, like, oh, shit, I got to deal with this or that. But the truth of the matter is, is that I get up five o'clock and there's not this fucking weight of secrets. They can't get on my back. Like I'm going to come talk to you. You know, I used to, I would, I would lose it to have to come and know that there's cameras and talk to four three strangers and come into a room and like, feel like I have to perform. And I was trying to think about it and explain to somebody, why I don't feel that way, other than just the mere practice, okay? I've thought about it. Is he know what? It's not as an act. I don't have to go and be somebody that I'm not. I don't have to, like, worry whether you're going to ask me about the hookers in the, you know, why I take pictures of myself when I was whacked out on crack in a motel room as much as I do. I don't have to worry about you saying, like, well, tell me about the Ukraine thing. I don't have, like, I don't, I don't have to be anybody, but me. In anybody's life, what a fucking gift. Yeah, that is nice. That's cool. Really? Like, I don't, by the way, not just to the public, to the people that I love, most importantly. How much of the challenge of the discomfort of addiction and that life is what's going on, and how much of it is the shame and the secrecy and the lying? Physiologically, shits happening to you and you're kind of in it. Yeah. But so much of it's got to be the story that you tell yourself and the shame and the lying and the guilt and the judgment and the secrets. 90% of it in retrospect is that 10% of it's the physiological piece of it, which is real. But it's it's solvable. I mean, all you have to do is if it was purely physiological, all you have to do is just kidnap people, hold them for three days in a cell. I mean, literally. Finger legs. That's why the tattoos. I loved it. I love it. My family can't have a nice man like you can't have anything. That is the thing you said way, way back though. It's like because the internet is pretty wild. The internet is, you know, you have a bunch of strangers just commenting on all the stuff. And there is something about having a kid or just family or friends where you have, there's like a point where you have to almost be like, all right, like, I'm going to have to put my eggs in the basket of like family in my real life and really tune this stuff out because it's like, we all got thrown into this weird teaped quasi TV show that like everyone's in and kid, it really messes people up, man. I've seen it. I've seen it rock people. But I wasn't just, it's like everybody's life. And so everybody's out there and not it's realized this is this. Is it like, yeah, me having to get honest with strangers is not normal. Like when it becomes like a global thing, like I was the number three most spoken about person on Fox News for a four-year period of time straight. The only two people that talked about me more, talking about more were my dad and Donald Trump. Did you say number three, one point five on the story of the day, but you're a denial post over a year and a half. Yeah. And the daily mail too. Same. So that's got to get old. That's point. Oh my god. By the way, so such an interesting guy. So so ubiquitous. Did you just turn it off? Yeah. Yeah. But what about your how do you wait? Wait, wait. So sorry. Oh, no. What I was going to say about that is is that getting honest with that is like that becomes background noise. The real true gift is it's the people that you care about getting honest with your partner. Not my now wife, which I didn't ever have to have. I didn't ever have to live in a lie with her or have to. Like I never have to my but my mom and my dad and always thinking holy shit if they only knew. Well now they know. Yeah. Do you know what? You know what I found out? They still love me. No, it's not like they were proud of me or but yeah. You know what? They still love me. My daughter still love me. I'm and adore me. I'm positive. You know my my and like like wow when you get that is like okay you know what I'm going to do this morning. I'm going to try to do the next right thing. Yeah. - Yeah. - You're gonna try to not do that. - Yeah, no, that's, I've found that too with like, it's a different thing, but I used to get panic attacks all the time, and I would start getting one and be like, "Fuck, and I wouldn't tell anybody." I would just be like, "Fuck, fuck." And you just, it's worse and worse than minute. You just like tell one person like, "I'm having a fucking panic attack." Like a 90% of it goes away. - Yeah. - 'Cause they're like, "Dude, take a breath." - Yeah, right. - That's a perfect analogy. - It really is. It's like just a slow grade panic attack all the time. Like, "Fuck, you're seeing my phone." It's like, yeah, it's a bad feeling. - But every time you're going through it, the last thing you think is that I wanna do that. - Yeah, yeah. - Yeah. - But for me, it's like, done. They did it for me. It wasn't any courage on my part. It wasn't any therapy session on my part. You're liberated. - Liberated. - That's unleashed. - Yeah. - What was your question, sir? - You answered it. No, I'm just gonna, I just imagine, you know, you have five kids, you know, like that is amazing. And like having to, like, and that's, I think is what grounds me and most people is like, that's all you care about is what your kids and your family think about you ultimately. It gives a fuck what the internet thinks. But how do you, you know, how do you convey this to your children's, they're gonna be at their friends house. Fox News is gonna come on. Hannity's Bains are pulsing as he talks about you and they have to see that, you know? That's gotta be hard for them and for you to sort of, how do you mean? - Two inches of one is this, is that just by, just by staying clean sober, man. Just by not picking up. You know, that's the number one way, just showing up. Showing up with a clear head, you know, or as clear as a head can get, not on substances. - All right. - Is like, being true to that, you're 90% of the way there. Because then everything else is life. You know, I haven't figured it out. I'm figured out, you know, like, I make mistakes as a father and a husband and a son and a nephew, you know, all the time. I'm selfish. Like, you know what? Like, I think about, like, somebody asked me a question about my dad's health the other day. And I was shocked by the, like, response of people. Like, oh my God, 100 Biden, like, some revelation about, you know, my dad has metastatic bone cancer, which means it started off his prostate cancer. And it escaped the area of the prostate and metastasized into his bones. - Okay, my mom, he's not any different from when he had that, when I, when I, when that diagnosis was made public. To today, he's tough as shit. Metastatic bone cancer, bone cancer can be painful at times. It doesn't mean the treatment's not working, it doesn't mean the radiation and chemotherapy that he went through and, you know, the hormone therapy can't keep it at bay and all those kinds of things. But I was shocked at how people, like, I think the other part that I said, which is this, it's really fucking hard as a son. Yeah, it's awful, but like, I don't just love my dad. I adore him. He's the center of our family, not in a way because he's present in the United States, but the fact is that, like, he is the center of our family because we all rely on him, his wisdom, his affection, his, his presence. Because he even was present, even the vice president, to whole career, my dad was never not present from me, my brother, my sister. And I just hope that, so how do I do it? Just showing up, man, just showing up. And showing up, you know, not smoking crack helps. Yeah, yeah, true. It's a good set. What would you, if you could, if you could wall game out the next two and a half years for the Democratic Party, what would you pick? Oh, pure authenticity. Here's my thing. I don't care if you're a democratic socialist. I don't care if you're James Taylor Rico, and you know, straight down the line in the middle of the road. I don't care if you're going to run away from Joe Biden's accomplishments or you're going to run, you know, directly towards Joe Biden's accomplishments. I don't care if you think that AOC, you know, is the best thing since sliced bread or you think that, you know, Joe Manchin is the, you know, best thing. If you tell me that what you're going to do is that you are going to recognize that a constitutional Republican which we live is worth saving, then I vote for you. I don't even give a shit if you're Republican. At this point, if you put some chips down on the table, who do you think would be good? Oh, I really don't want this. I'm not, I'm not avoiding the question. I think that somebody's going to emerge, like every single time within the Democratic Party, with a vision and a voice that is going to capture the imagination, but I'm telling you, in this environment, it has to do with one thing. It has to do with whether or not you are being actually authentic. If you're being honest with people, people can smell it from a mile away, and the reason they can is because we've lived through 10 years at the age of Trump, in which we very much understandably confused authenticity with audacity. Trump would say things that nobody would say, and people would go, well, that's authentic. And then he wouldn't do them. He says he's not going to ever go to war in the Middle East and you'd have to be a goddamn evil, you know, and idiot to ever, you know, do it, and he does. He says that he's going to end the war with Ukraine on day one. And people go, now that's what we want in the president. And everybody with a brain knew that there's no way that he was going to end the war with Ukraine on day one. And here we are. He said that he's going to blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I mean, I could go through the list and I start to sound like a politician. He says that he's six foot three, and he weighs 225 pounds, and he has a, and he shot 71, the championship, you know, again. Everybody knows he's lying. That's audacity. People want somebody with all of their flaws to be honest with them about the challenges and how they're going to address them. And by the way, like all these people, like, I don't know what you guys think about Mamdani, but all I know is this, he said he was going to open up grocery stores that, you know, co-op grocery stores in the five boroughs and he did it. He said that he was going to bring down the rent prices and he's doing it. He said that he was going to balance the budget and he did it in six months. He said, now, all of the other stuff is like, what does he think about Gaza? I don't give a fuck with the mayor of fucking New York thinks about Gaza. What does he think about BB Netanyahu? Doesn't matter to me, if I live in New York City and I'm 28 years old and I just got married and about to have a ticket of something a little bit deeper than just sort of where he's at in the local geography, though, to people not care about the deeper principles of the people that are supposed to be leading them. - Well, maybe not, but I do know this is that all politics is local. Zoram Mamdani works in the largest immigrant melting pot in the human history, which is called New York City. He works there. You know what? James Talleriko, who's an evangelical Christian and a Democrat and talks about the red letter words of Christ and every speech that he makes is the right guy to be running in Texas. Just like I think that in a state like Michigan with an incredibly vibrant and old and important Muslim community, is that Abdul Asayed is a doctor, Abdul Asayed is a great candidate for there. You may want to be able to call him a communist because he believes in universal healthcare. I don't know anybody. I never talk to anybody that doesn't think that it's a right, that people should have the right to access healthcare without going bankrupt. - I just think, I don't know anybody. I feel like it's a, I think people have become black-pilled. I don't think it's like-- - It's fine to me black-pill, red-pill. People say that to me and I'm not joking. - Well. - Like I'm like, what's one's the black-pill? - The black-pill is essentially nihilism. - Okay, yes, okay, yes. - So essentially like, I totally agree with that. - So the general sense is, why do we keep having these dudes? Why do we have these presidents? Why are we doing this thing where we're connecting to this person or that person who says this or that? And Mondami, if I watch that, you see what algorithms pumping out? - Yeah. - And how could you not like it? He's putting water fountains up in Central Park and all these good things. But then you see that, like that's cool. But then you think, I'm not getting fooled again. I'm not gonna let these people hypnotize me anymore. Inevitably, they'll do the water fountains or the whatever for a little bit. And then before you know it, they're blowing up kids matter of time before there's a reason. They have some important reason. - You have one dark motherfucker. - It's true, man. - I mean, dude, that's the thing too. - You are Mondani's blowing up. - Well, not yet, I'm joking. - But you know what, I'm saying like, inevitably. - It's like the hero show and then it's just like, time goes on and you're like, what the fuck? I mean, for me, the political stuff is like, you know, like I think we're hopefully we're gonna get to a point because we have been in like the whole Trump, which also there is the Trump's like, you know, like, you know, negative half, which is like the liberal media constantly obsessed with them. It's like a feedback loop is my point. And I do, I hope we'll get out of the thing of like mutual demonization where it's like, you know, this person's a liberal, I can't even look at them. And this person's a good sir. I went to graduate school in Bremmar. Dude, if you disagree with these people, they would cry, the staff would freak out. And they were just like, - He went to bring more. - I did, come on. - Everybody does. - Talk about secrets, I guess. - Exactly. - But my whole point is like, I just really hope. That's why I kind of Iroh and you're talking about Christo fascism over it. It's like, dude, I just really hope we can solve, eventually learn how to be like, okay, you maybe, maybe I think some of your ideas are a little weird or wacky 'cause I didn't grew up like that, and vice versa. But the whole emotional charge behind it, I just-- - Do you think it's possible to get back-- - Is it really one? - I think younger kids kind of laugh in Iroh when they hear, like, people. - 100%. - I'm going around talking and the difference between the people that are like, 18 to 30-year-olds and anything that I talk about, is they get it in ways that if you're old, if you're my age, or over the age of 40 or 45, and you get caught in all of these conversations, exactly what Matt said. And I'm not saying to you, is it like, oh, it's all about Christo fascism. We're saying, what I'm saying is, one of the underlying things, I do believe. You wanna know what the conspiracy that I believe in? I believe that rich people eat at the same places, go to the same clubs, have the same interest, and I'm talking about the point zero one percent, and they pull the same strings, and they have an inordinate amount of influence on government. And if we really ever wanna change things, the thing that we have to do is figure out a way, and I don't know the way, I don't know the answer, I've got money out of politics. The same money that's been there forever, and they have, like, they had that. But you're absolutely right. - So, you know how much shit that I get for going to talk to Kenneth Collins? Have you ever met Kenneth? - No. - Jesus, I mean, you won't meet someone who's personally nicer than Kenneth. Now that doesn't mean that the things that she says, I agree with, or that I, you know, that I think that we did win on the moon. I say this to Kenneth every time. Kenneth, we did, we probably won't win on the moon. But, my point is, - It's pretty soon that we're gonna, just go back there and be able to be like, hey, that's the fucking flag, or whatever. - Yeah. - But also, you just lost me, man. (laughing) I was on board, so he said, we'll end it on the moon. - You don't think we went to the moon? - Yeah, I'm so sorry to ask. - This is where I wanna go. Yes, our three, let's fucking know what to do. - Wait, didn't we just say what conspiracy theories do you believe in? - Yes, I don't think we're there to do that. - Yeah, let's fucking assess it. Moon landing footage, please. - No, I'm not doing that one. - Yes. - Yes, here we are, Candace. - Ah, my God. - Come on, Candace. Come on down. - No, I feel terrible. I don't wanna do rail, what was he was doing? 'Cause I do like where you're going with it. I feel like I just, I do railed something quite beautiful. - You don't wanna question that. - I don't want to question that. - Everyone agrees. Money out of politics, stah da da da da. But how does that trickle down to making the incentives of modern media, social media, using in-group out-group tribalism as an effective strategy to gain political office? How does getting the money out of media stop the dynamics and the incentives of tribalism? - Okay. - That to me feels worth it. - You mean money out of government? - Okay, not out of media, but money out of government. - But here's the long way. - The incentives are still gonna be there on X to say. - No, but here's the thing. You know what, you can curb those incentives. - I mean, incentive to run roughshod over the health and well-being of the American people. And the way that you do that is, for instance, you end section 230. The immunity clause that for all social media and technology, the intercontinent is. - No, section 230 basically says that they are not responsible for their content or the effect of their content. So when meta goes out and they know that their algorithm specifically is leading to an exponential increase in suicides among teenage girls in the United States of America. And an additional exponential increase in the number of girls that are harming themselves and to the degree that they are going to hospital emergency rooms because of it. Because of their algorithms. Their internal studies show documentation. A whistleblower brings up all of the paperwork too. And all of the data that meta has, at that point, I think 2022 still Facebook has collected internally. You know what they did? Nothing. No one did a thing. So you have to change the law. And the reason that the law is not being changed is because it's not just Republicans, it's Democrats. It's people from, you know, in support of the freedom of speech of Silicon Valley or in support, you know how much money they pay for that freedom of speech? - Yeah, but this is a problem. I think you're conflating two things. Like you're right. Like, oh my God, it's terrifying. They studied BF Skinner. You know, they behaviorism. They've created a drug and addictive drug. And they know how to like hack the human nervous system in a way that is making kids completely glued to this. And it's like adults. 'Cause they work going nuts, it's creating psychic contagions, cultural contagions and such. And, but the moment that you start creating laws where you hold them liable, then suddenly somebody poves something, right? Then you do limit freedom of speech. It's the most beautiful thing about these things. And that's the problem is the two are separate issues. And inevitably what happens is this insane, machine that sometimes is misinformation, sometimes the truth, sometimes in between it will, you'll nerf it. And then the next thing, you know, it's like in Canada or something. Like, you know, if you want to push in Canada, correct me if I'm wrong. I think you have to like, don't you have to have some kind of license? Like you can get your internet taken away. - The UK is just about to ask for people to upload their IDs before they can have a solution. - Okay, so here's the thing, is I don't disagree with anything that you just said. But you know what, is that I think that we have to have this as an open discussion that's not incredibly infected by a voice that has far more power than yours or mine as a voter and so what I'm saying is, is that I think there's a way to get there. But I know there's no way to get there when I'm working against, you know, a couple hundred, you know, billion dollars that are being paid through, you know, every which way that you can possibly imagine, not just the Republicans, the Democrats just as much. I mean, something's gotta give, yeah, something's gotta give. - You might know more about that. - Yeah, you genuinely might be right and no more about it than I do, but I just, I wouldn't bet against the human incentive toward tribalism online. And as soon as you create a town square, even if you start to restrict section 230 gets repealed or you get turned off and you're no longer a utility pipeline, you're now actually. - No, she doesn't have much aim that's coming through. - But if that was the case, I get the sense that people just have these new rules and then they start to play with it like an MMA fight that says, okay, no growing kicks. So, okay, well, I'll find a different way to achieve the same outcome, doing something. - Maybe. - You know what, laying a few rows down. - You get rid of the green kicks. And so let's use a perfect analogy. Perfect analogy is the automobile industry, okay? So, you know what? Should we be able to hold cars liable that do not provide a safe product for the driver and for the consumer? - We do, right? We apply these as it relates to liability to every single other industry. If you put out a product that is known, like if I put out a bull's cereal and the bull's cereal, absolutely, is killing. It's a sugary cereal, and in the immediate, it has a poison in it also. If you get the one lucky charm, it's gonna kill 10% of the kids that eat it. You know what, we have laws against that. We have liability. And so not only would it be necessary a legal to do that, but really what it would be is me as a consumer of my child was killed because of the product that you created with the knowledge that that product has a better than even chance of creating the situation which ends up in their death that I get to sue you for doing that. So for instance, Chatchy PT. Chatchy PT right now, would you heard the stories of how it is speaking to people and like there's this one woman and I think I forget the exact, so don't hold me to it. She, it led her to believe that she was this messing on a figure and it literally encouraged her to take her life. It said you should do it. It would be the gift to the world if you take, so because they have all the conversations with it. You know what, should Chatchy PT be held liable for that? It's product, it's a technology. That technology took a vulnerable person and convinced that vulnerable person that the best course of action that they could do was take a gun and shoot themselves in the head. It told them to do it. - Yeah, it almost seems like he held liable for that. - Well, yeah, but I don't think freedom of speech applies to AI. - See, I'm not talking about the freedom of speech. So should men be able to have an algorithm that they are able to turn up or down which they choose to turn up and which they know through their own studies is leading to a exponential increase in suicide among girls between the ages of 13 and 17. You're saying more like some kind of regulation for the algorithm. - That's too dirty, consumer safety. If you create a product that is unsafe, you are liable to the consumer if they are harmed by it. - Yeah, I agree with that. I think you should do that. - That's all I'm saying. - Here's the rug. - Here's the rug though. I think 100% should do that. The Chatchy PT stuff. It does seem like it almost easy fix. Okay, if anyone ever says they're gonna kill themselves, just code in, don't do that. I mean, like, does that seems like he does do that? Yeah, you would think. You would think. But the problem is, it was then you get, but then it goes into a gray area of like what's safe and what's unsafe. That was like the COVID thing. If you had like any sort of descending viewpoint, like this is unsafe, and then you could, people who might have a political idea. - The editorializing. - And then go, that's unsafe. They're full of blockings. - I'm talking about consumer safety, that's on top. - Yeah, for sure. I'm not talking about what the argument that's going on in the UK right now, which I think is over the top and ridiculous in terms, I mean, not the argument. The way in which the UK is dealing with it. I think that there's real, like I'm going to get killed by everybody on the left for this, but yeah. I think that it's overkill what they're doing as it relates to free speech in many instances. I'm not talking about freedom of speech. I'm talking about pure consumer safety. - What do you make of the increase in political violence over the last few years, January 6th from White House correspondents in a-- - Okay, so I don't know-- - Charlie Kirk, Charlie Kirk, yeah. - I don't know, I do know this, is that I think that we are experiencing the same level of a political violence that has been present in the United States of America since its inception. I mean, if you look at it, we're way below where we were between 1968 and 1972. - Whether underground, Martin Luther King, JFK, Malcolm X. I mean, just go down and then down the list. Stokesley Carmichael, I mean, Huey Newton, the way in which the police responded to all of them. I mean, like, you go down and you want to talk about political violence, by the way. Ronald Reagan didn't only, was actually not an attempt. He was actually shot, not only was he shot, there was at least three attempts on his life in the eight years that he was at present in the United States. You go, the political violence that was directed outwards during the second push administration in the Iraq War in the Afghanistan War, the amount of violence that occurred outside the United States to protect us from political violence. I abhor all of it. I mean, it's just like the, but one of the things about this country is that, is like, we're honest with ourselves. We are an incredibly violent society. We are in terms of, we, we have 5% of the world's population, and we represent 25% of the world's incarcerated people, more than China, more than Russia, more than India, 25% of the world's incarcerated people are in the United States of America. And so, like, there's a lot of stuff that we need to reckon with, you know, but I'm not, like, we're not figuring that out. All I wanna figure out right now, one thing, I believe that Donald Trump is truly an existential threat. I'm here to say this. If you voted for him three times, okay, I'm okay with that. I understand, I can understand why you, why you may be gotten there. I don't have any problem with you. Like, I wanna go down and sit with whether it's Joe Rogan or whether it's Theo or whether it's Tucker Carl, I mean, there are people that have said worse things about me than not Joe and Theo, but like others or about my dad. But like, if you're on board with me that what this motherfucker's doing right now is pure insanity and cannot be good for the future of this country and for our position in the world, then I'm on board with you. I mean, literally, I mean, I don't agree with it. Single thing that Marjorie Telegram has ever done in her politics, other than this. She woke up to the fact that Donald Trump is a complete and utter fraud. - It's just the fucking wars, man, it's like every president, I don't know what wars your dad conducted. I'm sure he didn't. - He got out of every single war. We were the first president in 40 years, not to be have a, you know, when he got killed for pulling out of Afghanistan. - But when other people got killed when we were pulling out Afghanistan too, well, we lost 10 soldiers pulling out of Afghanistan and ending the 20 years while he was president. Okay, that's great. I don't, listen, I am so bad at politics. - Well, man, let me just say one thing. For real, this is what it is important. - Is that he did the exact opposite. - Okay, and not only that, is it, he didn't drop a bomb on a single person in the four years that he was there. - When your dad was president, there weren't any civilians casualties. - Well, there was enormous amount of civilian casualties that were in Gaza by virtue of what the Israelis were doing, but not by virtue of the actual us engaging in violence against another nation. - You're saying, like, when your dad was president, there weren't civilian casualties in Afghanistan or around the world. - Not because of us. We pulled out every troop, every single troop that was in Afghanistan. - He did what he could do. - After 20 years was pulled out. - I guess the broader point I'm trying to make, and sorry if I said your dad blew up a bunch of kids, like some kind of hippie and I don't know that, but I probably did, no offense. - No, he didn't. (laughing) - No offense. - Oh, by the way, literally. - Oh. - Oh, okay. - Yeah. - What a year. - What was your response at home? - Oh, all right. - Yeah. - What year was this again? What was it, what was it, the Ukraine? When did Ukraine start? - Ukraine started in 2021 when my dad was president, but again, what I'm saying is, is that we didn't put any boots on the ground in Ukraine. - The thing that against me alive is you've got all, like, we've been at war for what, 93% of our history, and you look at the first time the United States was not at war, was under the administration of Joe Biden, and what she got murdered by everybody politically, for pulling out of a war that we'd been in 20, for over 20 years. - Yeah. - It's a low bar if you're at war for 93%. But your dad, okay, listen, listen. - That's right, that's a false truth. - Oh, I'm saying this. - You never get credit for that, you look. - That's a good thing he did. And, but for me, what eats me alive is that, like, those bombs, whether whatever it may be, all those bombs, how much they cost, right? And then you hear, kids earn school lunch debt. What the fuck is that? There's kids who like, who can't get healthy school lunches. There's the teachers who aren't getting paid shit, you know? And you look at how much each of those fucking bombs cost. You wanna, you know, whether it's tax the rich, or tax the oligarchs, why don't we stop spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on bombs that are blowing up countries for completely enigmatic, mysterious reasons. Most people don't understand. And I remember when, right when we are about to bomb Iraq, I remember, man, I was in LA. I was at the marches, dude, everyone's marching, everyone's so fucking furious. What are we doing? And then, gradually, it seems like the national reaction to this insane violence that we conduct year after year after year. It's like we're not pushing back anymore. We're just letting it happen. 184 Iranian schoolgirls blown up. That's, can you imagine? - Yeah, by the way. - That was two Tomahawk missiles. - Yeah, not one. - Two. That's when the, you know, kind of started to become untethered when people would be like, well, it is a military conflict and things, it's like things happen. It's like, come on, man. - No. - You can't say that. - Things happen. - You can't say that anymore. - Yeah. - So that's where, I mean, I don't know. I don't plan the wars, obviously, but it's like-- - It's fun. - Actually, thanks for clarifying that. - Well, it was just easy to armchair a quarterback, but it's like, that sounds almost like, you know, the conspiracy guy, I mean, he's like, you sure you're not terrorizing them? - I get you, it's us. - Yeah. 'Cause you're deal with people who, you know, literally kill people professionally. And it's like, I have a hard time believing there's a lot of people who kind of delineate clear - I've got billions of dollars or a stake, not to be like fucking big. - A decision with which we are able to take out a single person as the, which is the relative size of a grain of sand on a map. That we, that that was a mistake. When we were making surgical strikes at the time. - Have you ever seen it? - It's really hard for me to believe too. - Yeah. - You ever seen when the retrofit samurai blades to a Tomahawk? You seen this? - No. - Fucking awesome. You wanna talk about precision? - Yeah. - So they're able to, they're able, I think it's a Hellfire missile. Maybe they launch it from the very beginning and then they use fins to guide it from there. But there's no ordnance in it. This thing is so fucking accurate that if you've got a bad guy in a car, you need to know what CT sat in. - I've heard of this. - Because this will go through the roof and thing these blades come out. And there was a dude who they'd found quite high up. I think maybe something to do with 9/11. And this guy every morning would go and have his coffee. And they sent two in the air at the same time. So like one, two, there's no explosion. This guy just gets turned into dust. - Honey, the reason we don't have your insulin is because we had to pay for sword bombs. - That was one guy that was real about that. - By the way, you know what? - That's different from throwing up a school at you. - By the way, you know what though? Is it in the past for so many decades now? The argument that the hippie argument that you're making is kind of like, oh, well, what are you talking about? We need to, are you fucking kidding me? You know what, we have a trillion dollar budget for now what is called the Department of War. We're not even defending ourselves now. We're talking about killing people rather than defending ourselves. - Yeah. - It's outrageous. It's outrageous in a country in which we are the only industrialized nation in the entire world that does not have a universal access health care. You know what for you man, excuse me, I got a pee. I honestly, I have a theory that it's hard to kind of keep the army going. If you have universal health care and, you know, free college because that's like kind of the, that's kind of the care of the dangable to get people in the army. Because if you give everyone health care, everybody college is just to skip people in. Here's something that bugs me out and I always try to wrap my head around it. I remember, so I think I was graduating college around like Occupy Wall Street time. Yeah. I think they pulled people and I think it was something like maybe 20% of the people believed anything the government said. Everyone had this like really apathetic attitude towards like, yeah, I don't believe anything they say. And then, you know, so that was 2009 by 2020. Not only to people, you know, wholeheartedly believe the government, but all of a sudden they like wouldn't talk to their aunts and uncles because they voted one way or the other. People, they got like, somehow turned this like people didn't really care when I graduated college. At least to people I knew and, you know, I guess abroad and all of a sudden some dial got to her and where it's like now like families are falling apart over politics. And it just was like, I always wonder like, how exactly did that happen? I don't know. I think it's all I agree with you. It's quick too. It's very quick. Yeah. I say to everybody and then sometimes like, I go home and I'm like, do I really believe that is the thing that I say is that we're not nearly as divided as we're being told for sure because I really believe that. But then I go home and then do it the same thing that everybody else does. I leave here, I get in the Uber to go to the airport and I'll open up my phone and I'll go through my 4u page and I'll be like, fuck, like fuck. We're broken. We're broken. And like, those motherfuckers. God damn it. God damn it. God damn it. Those motherfuckers. I mean, I even find it in this is that like I want to act on X and I went on Instagram. It was like a new thing to me. And then, you know, the main thing I wanted to do was sub-sack because that's where I write and do little things. Sub-sack rules. And also I can make a little money pay my bills. For sure. Yeah. So, but I went on X in this kind of. X is like a crap shoot. You know, depending on what it is, it's like, I mean, it is the meanest. Well, X as well. It's like insane. Okay. And just like it's in the you crack head, pedophiles, you know, I mean, like the shit. I mean, it's fucking on Instagram. It will be like, oh my God. That was so beautiful. Thank you. You've helped me in my recovery. And I would love to. This is a picture of my cat. It's beautiful. And here's me and my husband with our dog. And we love you so much. And like I'm like, how about I gotta go back to X? It's the same. Yeah. Oh yeah. You want to read? It's the same. Well, you call me a crack head? Right? Just a different ecosystem. Same. Same exact post. Yeah. And both on both sides. And literally, that will be what it is. And my point being is that we are all drawn to the fucking train wreck. We are all drawn to the confrontation. We are all drawn to and like, and that becomes everything. Like, I mean, listen to like, like, two o'clock in the morning, she'll be like, look at this. Brandishing your ex account. Because of my past life, it would be like, look, like, what was on that phone? Parts gets a beat. No, it's like, yeah, here's my phone. You're like, whatever you want. But it's, yeah. But it's like, you know, like kids are, you know, I mean, just it's awful. I think people are burning out on it. I don't really do. And I think it's going to seem kind of like, you know, if you go from like 2016 to now, it was pretty invoked in like 2016, 2020 to just be like freaking out on people and it all caps tweets. Like another thing. I think, especially younger people are going to be like, come on, man. Like I think there'll be eye roll and that kind of stuff. Yeah. You joke that we're not quite in the matrix yet, I think. You said we're like, oh, maybe there, but not quite there in the matrix. Here's a conspiracy, I believe. All right. Yeah. We'll save it for when you come back. What would convince you that we've crossed the line fully across into matrix line? Well, I mean, if like, I think the way, I guess if you wanted to like, make the connection that we're in the matrix, then you would essentially like have to say, like we do sort of live in a simulated reality. If we're getting all of our data from our phones, you know, what's happening is you're getting this algorithmic interpretation of reality. And then you're believing that that is reality. And so, do you know what I mean? In that case, if that's what's occupying your mind, it doesn't matter what's going on in the world. You don't need to be plugged in through something in the back of the ahead. Yeah. I don't think so at all. I think that there's a veil of illusion that's fallen over everything, which is whatever your particular subjective experience is online. I mean, look at the data for how long, how much time we're spinning on our phones. Generally, fixating on things that we'll never see. We'll never hurt us. We'll never touch us. And yet, that's throwing a shadow over regular life. And so, that would be a kind of simulated artificial reality as far as simulation theory itself, like what Nick Bostrom writes about and stuff. I think his argument is there's some kind of mathematical probability that we are not existing. This is almost simulated ones than the one root one that's downstream. Yeah, it's some iterative simulation in the sense that this isn't reality. It's already some form of matrix that ate we in technology. And within it, as above so below, it continues to simulate and nest. Yes. Do you know the plank length? Have you come across this? Oh, yeah. Yeah. So this is pretty cool. So there's a smallest length that you can measure things in the universe. It's called the plank length. There's no such thing as dropping it enough. It's the smallest that anything can be. It's like in so much smaller, smaller, smaller, smaller than an atom. And one of the arguments for simulation theory is that that's the pixel size of the universe. We could have local generation that only appears where you're seeing. We're talking about simulation, simulation hypothesis. But yeah, plank length is the pixel size. Well, here's the best argument for the simulation hypothesis. If you want to really prove you're in a simulation, you don't even have to go to the plank length. You just you are in a simulation of the sense that phenomena is being interpreted by your senses woven together instantaneously into some kind of reality upon which you are applying all of your subjective experience, all of your bias. And this thing that you are experiencing is going to be different than what I'm experiencing, what any of us are experiencing. So in that case, if you have a human nervous system, you are in a simulated reality. It's just you are simulated by you. You're the simulator. And what was your matrix conspiracy? No, I don't think that there's anything new to the hypothesis that we are living in the simulation. There is language that we now use that's based upon our understanding of the metaphysics and our understanding of quantum, the reality that we live in. But if you go read the uponashads from 25 hundred years ago and the Vedic wisdom, you'll literally they're saying exactly this. They're saying exactly this. It is a almost one for one except the language is just different in which they attribute these principles. It's kind of the perennial philosophy. It's all this Huxley. It is the idea that there is a reason why throughout all of human history, at least in our organized civilizations that we have come to the people that have been the wise people of whatever epic that is, have all come to the same conclusion. And that is that we are all connected. We are all one thing that all of our physical reality is an illusion that there is no such thing as time and space. I mean, I don't know, I'm really. Sounds like you must be proud. But I really mean it though. And it's nothing new. We have different ways of explaining it. Yeah. But if you look at like where we are headed with AI right now and everybody that I listen to that comes on that are really truly involved in the creation of this, all have come to the same conclusion that within one, two, maybe already were at AGI. And if that's the case, then there were two, three years maximum in terms of super intelligence. Not even. We're almost minutes away from it potentially from super intelligence. And we had super intelligence. We've just crossed a line that is the greatest advancement in human, the human experience. Ever. What separates artificial and like super intelligence from artificial intelligence? Oh, so we just say so we have super intelligence. Well, well, well, yeah, except we know. So there's the difference. Yeah. AGI is that there is a machine can do everything in anything that a human can do. Okay. Super intelligence is when a machine can do things that humans have never been able to do or do. Which by the way, I read some article by the way, I just made that up. That's really what you should write that down. What if it says something we don't we're just like, what if it's dumb? Is it going to say stuff that we were like, we're still going to have to decide whether it's like smarter than it. - Well, by the way, it's like an alien landing on Earth. That's what it is, you wanna believe it aliens? They are about to land. Because what it is, it is a species that is so far more capable and understanding that us, what we're capable of, they will, the super intelligence will look at us potentially, and this is what they're concerned at with, as like we look at ants, and we look at insects. - Here's an example. - And whether or not they save us, or they, or it, you know, or put us in the zoo, or whether this just happened a billion times before that we're living in the same, you know? - Yeah. - This is what Bostrom said, like to put into perspective, it's a great book, super intelligence. You read that book, it's so good. So, basically the way that we process time is based somehow on how fast the brain, I'm obviously, I'm not a doctor or a scientist, but Bostrom's example is theoretically, if you get a super intelligence, and you spill your coffee. Like before the coffee hits the floor, the super intelligence could have written like a hundred doctoral thesis in that amount of time. And so, the way one of the questions is, well, it even be aware of us anymore. Like, we will seem so slow to it. But a more real world example, which I read, it's already happened, is these things are innovating ways to like read you engines, that we don't quite understand. So, what could start happening is it starts giving us blueprints to create technologies, and we don't even know why, or how they work. Essentially, it's Lord of the Rings. Like, now it's just magic. These things are spitting out, you know, cures, or God knows what, and then on top of that. - But just think of it from the idea of a prediction. - Right, yeah, yeah. If you don't understand what we are going to do, or what anything is going to do the same way. And, by the way, it's either, I believe that there is a utopia to it, potentially. Potentially. But there's no getting to that utopia without going through what, and I don't want to use word apocalypse, but some really, really difficult times. That the way in which everything that we do is going to be so completely dislodged. Like, we're sitting here talking about saving democracy. I don't know how, what is the purpose of a government in democracy in a world in which super intelligence exists, which can't be controlled, and that's the other thing. This whole idea that somebody's gonna get to it before we do, once you create, once super intelligence is released, there's no pouring your soda can on the computer. You how the, it's not like saved in servers and all that stuff are powered by. It has already, without being even supposedly reaching AGI, has figured out ways to preserve itself. So they've run these tests. They've run these tests, and I think, forget it was an entropic or entropic, entropic. In which they were going to shut, they let the model know that it was going to be shut down. Not directly, but through communications that were on the server between the scientists that were involved. And you know what it did? It created copies of itself. It hid those copies from its creator. And also it began to blackmail. They put in little things about like one of the scientists was having an affair with one of the other scientists. So it started to send emails to the one scientist saying, "If you attempt to do this, let it be known that they were going "to blackmail them and make a public their affair "that they were having with a NASA." So it started to take the self-preservation that were never instructed to do, in which it was directly opposed to the actual directions that the people that created it were giving it. - But that's even before. - I wonder though, is it possible we're in the middle of the most unfathomable marketing campaign for this analogy? - By the way, I've thought about that. And you're absolutely 100% could be right. - Yeah, I think about that all the time. I'm like, you know, again, marketing evolves here. - For the trillions of dollars that they are putting into, yeah. - 40 Stanford educated people and like, let's cook, how would we cook up the next thing? - Was it a whole big siop when Anthropic came out and said they just created a model that was. - Oh, you guys can't use those. - That's the fate. - Yeah, if I turn it off. - The real joke on all of us is they called it mythos. It's like, I mean, I could totally completely win this thing. - I wonder about this, my other thing I wonder. I'm like, maybe, you know, for me, it's like, I don't know. But I always wonder, I'm like, I don't know. Part of me feels like I'm in the middle of the most insane marketing campaign. - Dude, no, they just whipped up. I just read this. They just used an AI to create virus, the bacteria phage that they just did. They've already done this. - Who the fuck is dude? - Well, they get. - Don't do that. - Don't do that. - I know it's crazy, but they did it. And so this is the, apparently there's an LLM, but for genome editing, they already have this. And so what we're looking at even before, like the Terence McKennautopian end of history, singularity, time machine bullshit, is I think more akin to like school shootings. It's like, we now know that kids will go into a school and just start shooting a bunch of people using guns. What happens when technology, formerly accessible, only by like the Wuhan Institute for Virology and the, what's it called? What is it Fauci was doing there? It was a bit. - Data function. - Gain of function. You know, you, what happens? - What happens? - We all know what Gain of function is. - I know, I never wanted to know that. - See it, it's my brain. - None of us really know what that is anyway. - It's an amplifier. - It's an amplifier. - It's an amplifier. (laughing) - It's a fucking Gain of function, man. - It's an amplifier. - You can already order gene editing kits online. And so what happens when this technology falls into the hands of non-state agencies, just pissed off people who want to start whipping up their own diseases. What happens then? This is, you know, the more present danger than an AGI is someone using some kind of local LLM trained on gene editing and some fucking DNA printer to whip up some new disease. - On the DNA printer thing, that is an area that's actually a bit more secure, which is pretty cool. So I've had a couple of conversations, Annie Jacobson, who's written this new book about biological war and a few other people that have lived in X-Rest for a while. When you have these desktop printers, DNA sequences, if you want to print anything, you can't do it without a connection. And there's green, yellow, and red. And green, you're allowed to print freely. Yellow, you need to get permission and red's the FBI turn up and kick your fucking door down. - Okay, but let me stop you there. I have a local, theoretically, local LLM. A local LLM, it's offline. I downloaded it. It's like one of these new Chinese local LLMs. It's online, right? - You've used Kimi or whatever. - How do I fix that problem? How do I make it to my-- - Okay, can you hack my desktop printer to get around the thing? - Yeah, all these things, you know, whatever. - All of this stuff is an arms race between the development of the technology and the protections that we need to put around it. It's just permanently moving like this. The crazy thing is, I don't think from a consumer standpoint, that people are that bothered about AI is getting that much better. They're already achieving probably 90%, 95% of what I wish was a bit less psychophantica. I wish it wouldn't use so many M dashes. I wish it would write a bit better, or whatever. But like, for the most part, fucking new chat GPT links in with you. All of the health stuff on your phone, and I've got this test that I want to know. And can you give me advice for the present for the fucking going away on holiday? Like, all of a sudden-- - It's amazing. Yeah, by the way, it's absolutely amazing in life changing and-- - And terrifying. - And by the way, to your point, like if somebody can build that, like that, to do a swarm, then my feeling is, is it, the opposite is true? That we just as fast can come up with the antidote. - That being said, though, there's-- - It doesn't mean that it's going to be really, really scary. There's way more ways to break stuff than fix stuff, all right? Like, there's only a few ways that you want things to go well, but there's basically an infinite number of ways that things can go badly. So you just have to work harder to avoid that. Question on that, on the Fauci thing. I haven't been fucking keeping up with this at all, but all I see online in videos of people shouting at Fauci. Like, he's sat in a chair, looking inside, and people are just saying mean things at him, and then he keeps bleeding the fifth. - What are they trying to do? - Okay, here, let me, I know this is not the hey, but popular in where I'm saying, maybe, maybe not. I don't know where you guys are. - I don't know where you're going to listen. - Okay, is this. Whatever you think of Anthony Fauci, him taking the fifth was his only choice. And here's why, is because I know from personal experience, is that all they were doing with Fauci is bringing him up to Congress so that he could testify, and if he opened his mouth, no matter what he said, they were going to refer him to the Justice Department, which is own lock stock and barrel by Donald Trump, and whatever whims that he has, and they were gonna charge him with poetry. That's it. And regardless of whether there is a truth, is now they're considering charging him with contempt of Congress. - That they did. - There is no jury in the world. There is no. No, I can't even believe they'll get it through a grand jury. If they, I'd Congress did, whether the Justice Department follows through with charges on contempt of Congress is another thing because everyone has the ability to take the fifth. It is these. Just like I have the right to say what I want to say, you know, as long as it's not yelling fired in a crowd of movie theater, as under the First Amendment, I have the right to the Fifth Amendment, which means that I don't have to open my mouth in this situation in which I am under oath and I could later be charged as for lying. But they're okay, that's fair. Are they? Because I don't really know much about either other than then they found his diary or something on the state. They didn't find it. They subpoenaed his diary. Yeah. And yeah, so what they're trying to prove, I guess, is that did he actually have knowledge that it was made in a lab or not? No. And so, under his diary, and he's spoken about this publicly, he's testified to it that he says, no, it is not the gain of function research that he believes he's also said that he does not know whether it was a lab leak or whether it was, you know, natural from whatever. And I don't know. I thought there was an emission in the diary that he was like, or at least somebody told him that they were, it was like, yeah, I don't know. No way. I think there was something, and again, I could be wrong, but I think there was something saying, there was a lot of people being like, there's no way this was a wet market. And then they were kind of taking off the panel of experts, quote unquote, no, we have a unanimous. That's again, that's what I've heard. I don't know if that was like. Yeah, she, I don't know. I think that if that's what we've heard, it would have been much bigger story. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's the worst. Remember what we had heard? Well, because this is, this is the tale, by the way. Yeah. What do we learn from his diary? Did he had a really big ego? And that he was kind of blown away by the amount of attention and fame that he had in that moment of time. Those are all the things. You've heard that reporting, right? You've heard that reporting. Yeah. You know what? And you really don't want that. That's what we learned from the diary, leading the response to what we learned. If we had learned that it was game of function, that he was responsible for setting it up in the blue and lavender. Yeah, yeah. Then we wouldn't be sitting here wondering whether or not he's being charged. Did you see RFK bragging that he's got no gag reflex? Oh, gosh. What? Did you see that video? For real? What? Watch this. I don't have a gag reflex. I will literally eat anything, because I don't have, I don't have, I can fit 100 foot sausage in my mouth. I, I, I, I, I, he's talking about case of food. Right. But I mean, that's just. Oh, that is not saying eating stuff. Oh, is this, I'm sorry. Okay. Is that not just my, no person should ever, statesman should ever say that. RFK is my Falshi. I like RFK the way I think you like Falshi and I, dude, I, I see green beans in our gag. What was it like throwing them? I would taste them and be like, yeah. Okay. Okay. I like RFK. But yeah, he does. Do you like it now? I, I've always liked them. Do you like it more now? For sure. I want to hang out with them. Yeah. Seems pretty fun. Now. I really want to hang out with them. Yeah. Say it. What do you, what do you make of? Exactly. What, what do you make about RFK? Oh, I don't know, man. I mean, here's what I make of RFK is that I, I believe that he, I don't know. I just are so disappointed. That's why. Because forget about all the other stuff. Okay. I don't, I don't share the same view that he has, but I don't have any of the scientific background as it relates to the vaccines and all that kind of shit. I'm, I, I, Trump is an existential threat and everybody will say, oh, this is Trump, the Ranger syndrome. Is this, is it one of the things that I know and that I, no one is ever going to take me off of this? This Trump is doing more damage to the United States to the American than any other single individual that I can possibly think of since maybe Andrew Johnson after the assassination of Abraham Lincoln. I really mean it. He is like, like the way in which he has turned a, the, the Oval Office into the family office that for those pure benefit of him, take away all of the policy decisions or whether you think about woke in, you know, the military or whatever that shit, I don't give a shit, is the way in which he's turned it into a, a way to personally gain his own existential threat though. A hundred percent because if you are able to become president for the sole purpose of benefiting yourself, that is called a king. It is literally is a, regardless of whether you have elections in the future or not. If you are able to with, with impunity, make the Oval Office, make the presidency into a, you know, a personal project for your own benefit. You know, I mean, look, man, the Qataris gave him a half a billion dollar jet. He then took it to the Department of Defense and put in another billion and a half in taxpayer money into it and he has a signed document from his own attorney general saying that he gets to take the plane with him when he leaves the presidency. Fucking nice, Jack. That's crazy. That's crazy. Okay. Yeah. I can't criticize a guy that gets you a million dollars. Yeah. Let's just think about how insane that is. Yeah. Yeah. Forget about all the other stuff. Just think that one thing. And by the way, there is a clause called the emoluments clause in the Constitution that says no president can take a gift. My dad and mom, you know, I mean, they could guess everywhere you go. They literally, you send them to the National Archives. You send them to the Smithsonian. They don't keep a single personal gift unless they decided that they wanted to pay for it. Of course, they don't have any money to be able to pay for it. President has to pay for the gifts they get. Oh, yeah. 100%. If they take it or they keep it, by the way, I don't disagree. That's fair. I don't disagree that he's, you know, fucking nuts. The question though is like he's definitely not the first president to act in their own interests. If you take all the politicians, I'm not saying that, but his self interests are saying it's so inflated. So insane. Yeah. So insane. Over the top. It just feels like he's the first president to sell it and do what they've all been doing. If you, no, no, no, no, no. And by the way, I'm not saying, I'm not saying, I'm not saying I like Trump. He makes. He makes wish your Nixon looked like a piker. He is literally for $100,000. You can pay true, so you can, you can go on through social, pay an additional $100,000 to get a, to get like an hour ahead of time, the text that he's about to put out. So now what? And you know what he's doing? Yeah. So if he goes on through social, it says, I'm opening up the straight to him or the straight to remove, open up again for the 39 times, yeah, you got, he, you pay to social and he's completely open about it. He made 34,000 or 3400, 3400 trades in the first quarter of this year. As president of the United States, you know how many more of that is then like my dad, 3400, and so much more than Barack Obama, 3400. That's up to the entire eight years of their presidency. I'll show Tom, I'll show you. You said your dad didn't make trades. I'm like, fuck. That's a joke. Yeah. And I got you. Yeah, that is, that's probably why he's always going on about stock market. He comes out as a, he's a stock market, he's crushing it right? Dude, what are you guys doing? All right. By the way, every single time, go and look at the Wall Street Journal. You literally can see it in terms of the things they have the actual numbers is that there's like, oh, interestingly enough, when he imposed the blockade an hour before there's a $500 billion trade. Yeah. You can see it. Let's listen to this. Yeah. Jared Kushner. Okay. Jared Kushner, who is not elected by anyone, not appointed by anyone. He supposedly does not work directly for the White House. He doesn't have a Senate compromise position. He doesn't work for the Department of Defense, the Department of State. However, he is our envoy to the Middle East. He's getting paid over $100 million by the Saudis alone and has over $6.2 billion under management from the Gulf States, including UAE, Qatar, Oman and everybody else in the region that are paying him $100 million in fees to him personally. Who is he negotiating for? He's getting paid $100 million for certain by the Saudis. Did you find that? You could have gone so much harder. No, I know. But by the way, oh, 100%. But literally, who's he negotiating for? He and Whitcoff, as it relates to what happens in Gaza, has a relation, what happens is straight to removes, because he literally is the mouthpiece for the United States of America. Why do you think, because I mean, can you imagine? It's the same. That's absolutely fucking nuts. Why do you think Trump did the Iran thing? Because it seems so obviously dislikable from so many people for that reason because of the Saudis. That will tell you why, is because every single Prime Minister of Israel, since Jimmy Carter has walked into the Oval Office and begged the President to strike around. Yeah. Since Jimmy Carter, everyone, every President, has said, "Love you, get out of my office." You know why they've done that? You know why they've done that? Because every one of them knows is that the first thing the Iranians can do is they're going to shut down the streets of our moves. And you know what that's going to do? It is going to literally perish. paralyzed the world economy, not just as it relates to our fuel, but as it relates to everything that has to do with petroleum. But in particular, the one that's going that everybody not even talking about is what it does to fertilizer and to the cost of the American farmer. And so we, the bread basket of the world, are getting crushed, farmers are getting crushed right now. What's that state of the straight-up hormones now? Still closed. He's now opened it up over 30--this is like the 40th time. I nominated him for the Nobel Peace Prize for ending a war more than not only once, not twice, 38 times. 38 times. [laughter] 38-minute time. 30-minute time. The straight-up hormones closed though. They don't want it closed, and they didn't want this to happen. They really wanted to have it. And what they thought that they were going to be able to do is decapitate and take out committee and that all of a sudden that the rest of the Gulf would rally, that they would come in. But everybody--look, there's a guy that teaches this at the war college in the Army War College. He's where all of the senior leadership of the military comm, and he's been teaching basically the game out in a war with the Iran, over 25 years, and he's gone back on like three times. He's given exactly this is what happens. If you decapitate, if you take--look, committee, I told a committee, had a fadwa, which is an edict. It's basically like the Pope came out and-- It's like the Muslim wanted side. Yeah, that's the fadwa, that's the fadwa, but also--yeah, exactly. But you can also issue a fadwa as it relates to the edict, like saying, this is what we believe. For over 20 years, he's annually put out a fadwa saying that they do not believe in nuclear energy as a--to be a weapon. It was--it was religious law from their supreme leaders that they would never turn the nuclear energy that they were trying to do into a bomb, okay? This is this guy, not me talking, you know? So what was this guy like bombing your citizens of--no, he wasn't that bad. No, in Iran, no, that was--I don't know if that guy got--well, I mean, Iran--I mean, it's like-- But the I told it. So his son, his son, however, is always been known to be very close to the IRGC, the Revolutionary Guard. Who are the radicals? Who are the ones that, you know, they have a 700,000 strong army, which is the IRGC? He's now in charge because we killed the father. And you know what? He's all for a turn of building the nuclear bomb. So that's who we replaced him from. And you don't have to do anything as--if you're the--all this talk of taking out all their missiles and taking out--all it is is, like, a couple of hundred thousand drones that are literally buried in the sand along the strait, you know, they will never be able to take them all out. And all it takes is one, two, three to take out an oil tanker, because what insurance company is going to ensure any of those tankers to go through the strait of our moves? But they can keep it as close as long as they want. I mean, just before I came on this, it was just to announce that the deal that he had with them is that Rainy said, "What is he's out of his mind? I don't even know what he's talking about." What do you think is going to happen? What do you think is going to happen? I think it stays closed as long as they want to keep it closed. And that's what they realized. He basically put out a feelers two days ago saying, "He doesn't even care if there's a nuclear deal." He just as long as he can open up the strait of our moves, he's ready to kind of like move on. He's going to use a nuclear, he's going to use a nuclear weapon, he's going to get soaked back into a corner. Midterms are coming up. He doesn't want to do boots on the ground. He knows what happens with that. So like, you know, that's what people are kind of muttering about is he's going to like do a small scale nuclear deal. Just a little one. Midterms. Just a little one. Just give you a little use. A gentleman's new. Yeah, having that a baby. You just. Not before the midterms. Maybe after. Yeah. Maybe after you would do it. For real? Maybe. You can't. Yeah. That's terrifying. You really think that? Because I do too. You think you'd press the button? I think that he could. I think that he is. He is a. He is, in my opinion, a malignant narcissist. I mean, you're going to drop a nuke, though. What? I. There's that doctor that. And I don't necessarily agree with this, you know, like, you know, he's a psychologist. But this guy, you know, like Harvard Treen, in 2015, he went on and he said, "I've studied Donald Trump and I believe." And he's like the foremost expert in his field and he said, "I believe that Donald Trump has exhibits to all the behaviors of a very rare diagnosis, by the way." It's not a sociopath, it's not a psychopath, it's not just a narcissist, it's a malignant narcissist. Pull up the traits of a malignant narcissist and I love how I'm running the show now. Pull up things. Get in there. It's good. He said, "What it will be like if he ever's ever like the president is like an asteroid hitting the United States of America." And I really truly believe that that's what it has been like. Whatever you think about January 6th, just go look at the images. If that wasn't one of the greatest traumas to this, to the body politic in the United States of America, I don't know what, what was. Simply by how it divided us in the way in which we saw it, with our own eyes. Yeah, but do you. There's a thing with that. Do you don't think the Democrats had any role in the division? Because I feel like they were fucking. Of course. Yeah. By the way, of course. Yeah. Obviously, there's always another side, but here's one thing that I know. There's always been another side. There's never been another Donald Trump. He literally has broken us in a way that I have not witnessed any other politician that's able to do. But you know what? I have to say this. He's gonna. He's fucking things up and it's going to. I don't see any way, you know, again, Mr. Blackpill over here. I don't see how this gets better or on nose that they've got him. And if, like, dude, if, like, some dude blew up my fucking dad, my daughter, you know? Like, I. What do I. Who gives a fuck? I'm gonna do everything. Millignant narcissists is not an official mental health diagnosis and diagnostic manuals like the DSM-5. It's an informal term, common traits that might be associated with Millignant narcissism include grandiosity and exaggerated sense of importance, superiority or uniqueness, need for admiration, strong desire for praise, validation and attention, lack of empathy, recognizing or caring about other people's feelings or needs, manipulativeness, sense of entitlement, exploitation. I think it's just an asshole. It's an asshole. You know, my therapist says I'm the greatest narcissist she's ever worked with. Really? What's that mean? I'm just kidding. Yeah. Yeah. I hear on this. And again, I'm not a. I'm not a trauma-pologist guy, but this, like, narcissistic, like, you know, I talked to a doctor and he actually said he's a narcissist. It's like. But, by the way, I'm with you. He's obviously. He's nuts, for sure. He's fucking nuts, though. He's fucking nuts, man. He literally sits there and he tells us that he just shot a 70 at bed, Mr. and he won for the 40th time. His. His club champion. Who do you. Not really. You're the president. His dick fell out of his shirt. He sits out of the. Oh, well. Yeah. It's kind of wow. It's wild, man. I also, too, the real, I think, I mean, there's been a lot of them, but the one that was real slippage was, like, the. What do you say? Like, not Al-Akbar, but he had one. Oh, yeah, yeah. What he said. To. To. To. To. To. To. To. To. To. To. To. To. To. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Which is, like, I don't. There's always been another side, but I think, in this case, if you really want to, like, look at what happened and how this happened, yeah, you do have to look at how absolutely venomous the Democrats got, how. Kamala Harris was just suddenly shoved in front of everybody, you know. It's fucking Kamala, pal. No, I'm not saying that. Yeah. I'm not saying that's Kamala. Goddamn it. But. But you're racist. But for sure, that didn't help. You're teeter-tillin'. It didn't help. Love and racist. That's literally what. That's kind of what they did. Exactly. Yeah, you got it. That's exactly it. By the way, exactly. I swear to God, literally, but I'm telling you, I truly believe that he is not the symptom of the disease. He is the disease, and we are all the symptom. What? Look, I really mean it. So that's just my feeling. Yeah. I don't think that it's solved everything when he is gone from public life. But I told you're right, like, it's crazy. What's it like? It's like the way in which the whining and the end, like, oh my God, it wasn't even. It drives me fucking away. It wasn't even that. So Trump is like an overt. Like, he watched him. Yeah, I totally get it. There was so much quiet, kind of manipulative stuff that I would say more liberal eating people would do. They would try to destroy your livelihood. They would try to take your job away from you, and it was like all patting each other on the back. But I saw, especially at Bremar, you know, I'm probably going to get sued by them one day. But. It was. It was real. Really? We're like in the bastion of. I was in the graduate school for more. I know. But. They're people's therapists and stuff, and when one thing they were talking about taking people who were, you know, need a therapy, need it help, and turning them into political agents as a mode of therapy. that would help them. And I'm like, dude, that's sick. - Okay, totally. - But my whole point is, my whole point is what I don't wanna do. It's like Trump is like, you know, he's some figurehead of some sort of ugliness. I think that kind of like, you know, he's like a very touch with our age. You can get rid of him. And then if you kind of say like, and here's the good guys, I'm like, I don't know about that. - Yeah, no, I'm not saying here's the good guys. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - But what I'm saying is that if you truly believe in a constitution of democracy, if you truly believe in the rule of law, like I say it all, everybody, I was asked at another show. He's like, well, don't you think that you getting a pardon was not good for, you know, the country? And like, I guess they expect me to answer like, no, I think it was fine. It was fucking awful. - It's fucking awful. - It's a totally bad thing. - I'm not serious, I was like, yeah, okay. If I got pardoned, I'm like, yeah, it was sick. - No, by the way, I don't, I wouldn't fall for you for that. - I have the deepest gratitude in the world for it personally, but was it good for the country? - No. - No, I'd like this, you know, the former pardon attorney saying, I was really, you know, this and the other thing, but what's the alternative? What was the alternative? Can you imagine if I was under the Federal Bureau of probation right now? Would my dad be able to write a book and be critical of Donald Trump? - What would have happened if you hadn't been pardoned and Trump got elected? - Well, number one is this, is it, if, oh, if I had not been pardoned? Well, the case that was the gun case is that I bought a gun and on the form that says, are you addicted to a controlled substance, okay? And you can read that as being like a state of mind in the moment, you know. And so that's why the Supreme Court just overturned it and at least as it relates to marijuana users said, it's an unconstitutional. They'll get to all the other drugs and I believe that it will ultimately all be unconstitutional when I was convicted under. Now, on the gun for 11 days, it was in a lock box, I never loaded, never fired it. Somebody had a concern for my safety, not anybody else is thinking I was gonna harm myself through the trash can. I self reported that it was thrown into the trash can. Please came to collect it. They never gave me back the gun. I never asked for the gun back. Five years later, is when they decided to charge me with it. And so, every, the other ones is that I got convicted. I pled guilty to not paying my taxes on time. Okay, so in 2016 and '17, when I was in the midst of my addiction, so '17 and '18, when I was supposed to file, I basically thought it was wrong. - Taxes don't fit in mind to you? - No, they weren't fit in mind to me. - Not them, I was, and I'd never even filed. So when I got clean, sober, I went to go file my taxes and my accountant had died in that period of time. I had a new accountant. They said, you didn't even notice your accountant had died? - No, I did not. And yeah, and cracks the hell of a drug. - Yeah, exactly, hell of a drug. - Yeah, by the way, that's the best skincare. Can we play that? Can we play the, the rich ain't play this? - I can't do hell with it. - Can't do hell with it. - I can't do it. - So would you have gone and then taxed off? - And so, I had paid my taxes with penalties in interest. I haven't found a, another case in which somebody, who's paid with penalties in interest, was criminally charged for a failure to do that. And they said that then I like, I took deductions that I should not have taken. I, when I went through them, all my travel expenses were, I put his business expenses. They said, well, literally expenses, you were also smoking crack and doing blah, blah, blah. - Right. - Do you have a foot crack on the business card? - No, never put a guy inside of the business card. - You can't buy it. - I thought I could, yeah, you know, do not most dealers use credit cards. But, yeah, yeah, Venmo, but anyway, my point is, is this, is that if he was president, is that what you don't realize is that when you're under, when you're convicted, you have no Fourth Amendment rights. Once you are charged, you relinquish all your Fourth Amendment rights against search and seizure. And you, there's no, you have no Fifth Amendment anymore. You don't have a Fourth Amendment. You don't have the right to, you know, and any space is open to search and seizure by the government. So, even if I was not in prison, at any time that federal agents could walk into my house without a warrant, without any judicial approval or anything. So, for instance, you don't think that if they wanted to make certain that my dad was not critical of the administration, that a ICE agent sown up to my door. And look what they're willing to do to other people right now. And so, that was a good for the country. No, I don't think it was good for the country. And to your point, do I think that this is all Donald Trump's fault that they haven't been like complete overreach on the part of some people in the Democratic Party or what do you call leptist or what liberals or whatever? Yeah, I mean, we are all including myself, culpable, the way that we talk to each other. But the one thing that I'm not going to do anymore, at least for me, is this. Like, I'll sit down with whoever the fuck I feel like sitting down and talking about it. Just like I used to be able to sit down with whoever I, and it doesn't mean I agree with them. I think fucking Nick Pentase is fucking out of his mind. But you know what, I want to learn it for myself. Sit down and have a discussion. What did you, what did you learn from sitting down with Nick? That he doesn't believe half the stuff that he says. If he thinks that he talks about all of it like it's a joke because that's what edge lording was. And I also learned from Nick Pentase is like a lot of us. Nick Pentase is frozen in time. Nick Pentase is still this 18 year old kid that went to Northeastern and was a Republican and wore a Magahat and had the same experience that you had at Brunmar, but times like 50. Is what a bunch of Northeastern levels basically shouted at him, canceled him, told him that he was this. And you know what, in doing so, they created a star. And then he was adopted by like the Ben Shapiro's of the world until he decided that he didn't send some negative things about Israel and all of a sudden he was canceled by them. And so you know what he did? He went nuclear and he found an audience for it. He found an audience for joking about the Holocaust or joking about black people or joking about whatever or saying women shouldn't vote. He doesn't believe any of that shit, but he does realize that it gives him a platform by which to talk to people. And in doing so, what he says, if you take the time to listen, a lot of it's true. All the other stuff is really hurtful and really wrong and really, really, really, really fucking dangerous. But there's another piece of it where he says, there's a group of people in this country. It's a huge part of the population of under the age of 35 that they aren't just dissatisfied, they are angry. And they are, and you know what, to them, it's all become a joke to your point. - Yeah. - They've all been blackpilled. Like, what do they, you know what? What you said, like, I'm not putting my, or maybe you said, is like, I'm not putting my, my eggs in Zoran Mamdani's basket because all I've been from my, from their perspective, since 2008, like, Jesus Christ, if you're 20, if you're 35 years old, you know, or is, say you're 30 years old, you've gone through 2008 where we've never fully recovered from as a country. If you're a little bit older, you watch the, you know, the largest income inequality in wealth cap grow and grow and grow without anybody even remotely saying, this is how we're going to fix it. Other than saying, oh, we're going to tax the billionaires. Like, because if the billionaires aren't going to find another way, it's a fucking, you know, my point being, is that people, particularly young people, have become so, I mean, it's not even anger. It's the thing that is much more, I think, insidious and that is indifference. Like, indifference to the idea, like, the checking out of politics, they say, well, what are politics? Politics is all bullshit. Politicians are all, and I always say, you may not care about politics. Politics cares about you, you know? And so, I don't know. I just think that I can only think of it and maybe I'm myopic in my rage. I know I am. I mean, I really know I am. I mean, I hate him. And at my grandmother would say, like, you know, like, you never say that in better terms. - But who do you hate? - Trump. - Fucking hate. I hate the way he talks about my dad. - Yeah. - I hate the way that he is, the way in which he talks about women. I hate the way in which he is never can make a joke without, I mean, you could be like, have you ever heard to make a joke that's not at somebody else's expense? That is always about, like, you know, making someone feel smaller. I think that leadership matters. And I don't, I know that the president of the United States has the capacity by virtue of the office that they sit in to lead. And you can either use it for good or you can use it for yourself. And he uses it all the time for himself, whether it's a political self, and whether that may align with a group of constituents, whatever it is, it's always for him. And I think that that's a disease on the Constitution. Tell us how you really feel. - Yeah. - You don't think Quiet Piggy was funny? - No. - That was crazy. - For crazy reasons. - It's for the problem is, the problem I'll be honest, the problem is it's so fucking nuts. And again, if you're a checked out dude and you're like, "It is funny." - That's when you're right, like if anyone else if you were sitting with your brother and they were talking, like, Quiet Piggy, you'd be like, "Bro, you'd definitely be like, "Bro, you'd be like, "What the fuck's you doing?" - But it's one of those things where you're already, and I can attest to this, you know, I'm 40, but I was pretty, by the time I was in like, the time I was like graduating college, I was like, "Fuck this, I'm not getting a job." The whole thing's bullshit, the whole thing's rigged, it's evil, it's all ruled by people, it's blown each other up. I want nothing to do with this shit. And he watched the news, you're like, "This is all fucking bullshit." So I had like checked out when I was like 20, I was like, "Fuck all this stuff." So then you got to, there's so many people watching the news like that who were like, "I can never, I'll never buy a house, "I don't give a fuck, I probably won't even get married, "everything sucks, I'll be in debt forever." And they see that and they just go, "Huh, that's crazy." And then they just go about, you know, their day. Which is sad, that's a sad thing to think about. - You're totally agree. - Yeah, when you get never done five in the year, DMT. - Oh, it's the worst, really? I hate, well, I mean, I got it off, I got, in those days you could order it online. - Are you talking about the toad or just regularly? - The toad, the actual thing. - Yeah, it comes from my toad. - Oh, yeah, yeah. - I just got this synthetic stuff, smoked it in West Hollywood. I thought I was gonna die. - Have you tried it? - Yeah, yeah, five in the year. - Have you tried this post rehab? - No. - We're back in the days when I was like, I was looking for any, I mean, I've done it all. I've done high waska and five in the year. And I'm a real believer. That's what relates to certain people and particularly. And, but the reason that made me think about it is this guy chase he's in the way that he talks about it. And he's done these incredible journeys on it. And he's done it IV, right? He's one of the first people ever to do that. And he's brilliant. I mean, he's brilliant on the whole level that, but this level of, and anyway, I don't even know why I brought it up. - I want to do it. - I was the second topic. - Maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe. - Maybe think, like, when you come to the determination, the realization that so much of this is just an illusion, you can either choose to engage in the game. Like if it's all a game, can play the game. - Yeah. - You know what I mean? Play the game and from my perspective, I've come out this other side with this incredible liberation of freedom to do the thing. I'm gonna play the game. And I'm gonna play the game first, and the only way I know when in the game is, and I know it sounds like polyannage bullshit, but it's purely selfish. Purely selfish is to be of service to other people. And I know, I really do. I realize it's that in no way heroic, is I've never done anything in my life. And by the way, I hope I make up a shitload of money doing it. - I'm like, I'm not, this isn't, this is because the only thing that I know that is ever worked is not being fucking stuck in my own head. They're only doing for me. Whether literally it's doing for Baby Bow, or whether it's doing for my dad, or more than anything, doing for Melissa, my wife. But then like the circle widens, in the circle widens. And so I feel like every day that I get up, and if I can just think about that, it's like little stuff. Like asking your waiter what their name is. - Yeah. - You know how big a deal in your day when somebody recognizes you, and you know, like, so if I can connect in a human level, just with, you know, whether it's the Uber driver, or the flight attendant on the way home, or the TSA agent going through the thing, it's like I'm playing the game. - I don't know. I think part of playing the game is like Karen. - Yeah. It's funny 'cause it does whenever it's like set out loud, like I just want to be, I want to serve others. It's one thing to say when you do it, it is a pretty profound thing when you're just like, not totally thinking about yourself little things. - Yeah. - Well, you're an artist. Matt is a fan of native instruments. So to celebrate seven years of sobriety, I want you to get you a little present. And this is from one current pipe lover to an ex-pipe lover. This is. - It's a flute, it's a native flute. - Is it really? - Yeah, you learn that a lot. - That's amazing. - No, no, no. - That's for you. - That's for you. - You're real? - Yeah. - That's for you. - I, Chris, I'm. - Yep. - Now, by the way, do think about this. Think about the level of double entendre. (laughing) I got a pipe, it's a mat. (laughing) Everyone knows that I used to smoke crack out of a pipe. - Yeah. - Yeah, smoke crack out of that. - But you cannot smoke crack out of that. (laughing) - All right, I could. (laughing) - Yeah, exactly. - No, this is beautiful. - It's, keep your ring finger on that third hole and you can't really go wrong with this. - This is truly beautiful. - Yeah, yeah. - Thank you. - You're welcome. - I really made it. - I appreciate you, boys. - Wait, wait, wait. - It's so awesome. Am I gonna be able to take this on the plane? - Oh, we'll post it, we'll be able to. - Yeah, that's it, that's it. - Yeah, there you go. - You all know, I appreciate you. - Thanks, guys. - I'm going on. - Yeah, great meeting you. - Hunter Biden stopped in TSA with a giant pipe. - The pipe. (laughing) - Exactly. - Oh, good.