Hunter Biden Is Worth -$15,000,000 | Financial Audit

- How would you rate your finances one at a 10? - Right now? - Yeah. - A zero. - Hunter Biden? - Hunter Biden. - Hunter Biden is now out with a new slap-top crypto coin and a crashed in burnt, losing almost all of its value. - What was going through your mind when you saw it, go from 50 to-- - Oh! (laughing) - So the FBI has had physical possession. Hunter Biden's laptop for more than three years. Now on that laptop is in disputeal evidence of crime, regardless of whether you get indicted or convicted, it can-- - How much is that debt for fighting those legal battles? - Like about $15 million. - The real power in Washington DC is money. The federal government's power is beyond anything that you can remotely imagine. - With federal prosecutors in Delaware investigating Hunter Biden and whether he broke federal tax law. - By the way, this is-- we can edit this part out, solve the record. Are aliens real? - Or are they? - We should probably stuff the cameras. - Okay. (dramatic music) - Hunter Biden, thank you so much for coming on the ice coffee hour. - Thanks for having me. - So I'm very curious, why agreed to do the podcast? - Oh, I think you're fascinating. I love the guests that you have on. I watch you all the time. And I think you ask really insightful questions. And the truth of the matter is, is that I've usually learned something when I'm listening to you. - I really appreciate that, man. - Yeah. - I have to gain from coming on though. - Well, for me, it's an opportunity to talk to people who I think have an enormous amount of influence in a category of listeners that most of the people that are my age and political persuasion don't necessarily have a chance to talk to. And I know that you guys are equal opportunity in terms of a political and most everything. But I just think that you do a really incredible job of like asking really insightful questions. So you know, maybe I get to learn something myself more than anything that's what it's about. - Yeah. - What's the message that you hope viewers could take away from this? - I think that we're fed, particularly at this moment in time, this algorithm that we're so divided that things are so desperate that we are on the verge of a civil war, so to speak, literally or figuratively. - And while all of that may seem true and I truly believe that our algorithms are not our reality. I think that if people just think about themselves in their own personal lives and think about their neighbors and think about the aspirations of their neighbors and their community, the truth is that we all share far more in common than we do have differences with each other. - One of the things that I've noticed, you've done a lot of podcasts recently. You've talked about a lot as well. And when we were doing research for our episode, we didn't want to cover the same things that you've talked about every single time. And I am curious, what is something you wish other people had asked you? - We kind of always touch this topic of universal pain that everyone experiences, but I don't really ever get to go in depth about it. And I remember on, I did Bill Marshall and I like Bill. But it's a 10 minute format and it's not a two hour format which doesn't lend itself to really kind of in-depth discussions. But I said to him, I said, I don't think we get to talk about issues like grief and addiction and trauma nearly enough. And he goes, I think we talk about it all the time. And one respect is true is that it's something that gets mentioned but never really in depth. And I think that's one of the ways that I have been able to connect with people more than anything is not, they don't associate out with me. Instead, they identify with me because of my experiences. And so not everybody was addicted to crack cocaine and not everybody had my experience in terms of that becoming a widely, widely talked about, public person. But everybody has a brother that has, so to speak, that has dealt with addiction. Everybody has a loved one. I've never met anyone that hasn't been impacted by it in some way. And with me, there's this piece that because of who my father was and because of the notoriety that I've received because of negative kind of conspiratorial press about that involves politics, you would think that people wouldn't find a connection but it's the exact opposite. They have found a connection in the way in which I've been. I think particularly for someone in my position, radically honest about just my past, but my present. So what do you think is then left out of the conversation about grief and trauma and abuse that should be included? The pain is the universal connector. I always, I say this a lot, is that the one thing that a human being is guaranteed to experience in a lifetime regardless of its length is pain. It's not love, it's not any other emotion, it is the experience of pain. And that pain can take many forms, some of itself, it's like that some of it is not. And I think that what we don't necessarily talk about is the role of that pain in the way in which people treat each other. You're saying then that this pain that everyone is guaranteed to experience is mostly seen as a personal experience, but what you're saying is that it's more interpersonal. That it's more of like a language, like a communication thing that everyone experiences. And that's the thing that we should observe as opposed to pain solely being a person. Exactly. Again, it's this whole idea, what back to what I originally said, it is a way in which we can identify with each other, not a way in which we identify out from each other. And you are just articulated much better than I have over the course of the last few months, but that's exactly right. Yeah. So what do you feel like people get wrong about you? Oh, I think that they get a lot of things wrong, based upon an narrative that has been spun for close to seven years before I started to speak for myself. You know, when my name kind of became ubiquitous, it was by no intention on my part. I had led a relatively private life in a very public family. I came to shy in some ways. Not that I didn't have a lot of opinions and a lot to say and a lot of experience to talk about things that I cared about, but the truth of the matter is, is that I usually shyed away from them. When that happened, I didn't really have an opportunity over the course of the last seven years to speak for myself for a couple of reasons. One, if you're under investigation from the Department of Justice as a former lawyer myself, I can tell you, just keep your mouth shut and follow the direction of your attorneys and don't make matters worse. That was part of the reason. And the second part of the reason is, is that I have a very, very close relationship with my dad, but I never, ever involved my dad in myself, in my father's politics and policy in office, meaning that I didn't have any intention of further complicating a very, very difficult job of the administration and executing on their plan and their agenda, which is very different than mine. The speaking of your dad, he had previously said, because we're mostly a finance podcast at the end of the day, we talk about economics and personal finances, your dad previously said that he vowed to never own a stock. I was curious if those financial beliefs transferred over to you as well. - Oh, no, let me explain why he said that. - He got elected to the United States Senate at the age of 29 in 1972. And the story of the day at that time, during that election, it was pre-watergate, but it was post-Spiror Agnew, who had resigned as vice president. And the reason that he had resigned had to do with, whether I forget whether it was stock manipulation or he took stock from a donor, and then basically he was getting paid off. And so, during that campaign, he made a commitment that he would never own a stock or a bond for this reason, is that it is, the United States Senator has an almost unlimited ability to impact policy that affects every company in the world. And I'm excuse me, at least every company in the United States, and particularly every publicly traded company. And so he had made a commitment not to own a stock or bond to never have that conflict of interest. And he kept that commitment. Now, of course, he has a retirement account, and he has his Senate pension and his vice presidential and presidential pension. And I'm sure those pensions are disassociated from him, invested into the market and whatever way that retirement funds are. But he never has personally, he kept that commitment the entire time. Sometimes I get a little angry that he did that. - And that's what we're trying to promote to the viewer is that it's not a bad thing. No, by the way, not at all. And that's it. 100% not even remotely about thing, but it is an inherent conflict of interest for somebody that is serving in Congress, serving in the executive branch, serving as a United States senator and the House of Representatives, and if people that have that kind of authority cannot set aside and put in like blind trust, truly, truly blind trust while they serve, then I don't think that they should be serving. I agree with you. I think that it was actually an incredibly noble position to take, to not own any stock. However, he could have got, in my opinion, the exact same effect, maybe 95% of that effect, saying, "I'm never going to buy an individual company. I'm only ever going to buy index funds." Here's another thing about that. You're absolutely right. The Biden family could have used some financial literacy for a very long time, and the other side of it is this. Is my dad never had any money to buy any equity? You don't get paid well as a senator? Well, I mean, in 1972, I think that the salary of the United States senator was like $46,000. It went up in the '80s, maybe early '90s, and I don't hold me to these things, but I think over the course of the 36 years that he served, I think that his probably average salary was about $175,000 a year, maybe not even, actually, if you include those earlier years in the '70s and early '80s. I know people are not going to believe me about this because you think the United States senator, "Oh, they're all rich." Well, 90% of them that come into the United States Senate come in already rich because of the fact that it is not a place to go to make money. If you're not making money on the side, and he was not making money on the side, and there's very, very few ways to do that today in Congress other than by buying individual stocks and trading in the way that we see many of the members of Congress, both Democrats and Republicans have done, and it's been made public over the course of the last several years. And remember, this is a recurring thing that comes up and then they don't do anything about it, comes up when people get pissed off and go, "Why don't they do anything?" Take a guess who's benefiting from it, right? And who's actually going to do anything to change it? Who has the power to change it? So the people who have the power to change don't want to change it, because they're the only people that benefit, and they benefit enormously from it. And by the way, just to remember who else benefits from it is the companies. Yeah, exactly. The people, look, the real power in Washington, D.C. is money. And it's not the way most people think. It's not by making an individual Congress person a millionaire, or it's not a personal financial benefit, the vast majority of people who go serve in the Senate or the House of Representatives. But the real power is the way in which money to interest are able to impact policy that is important to them. And so if you're the pharmaceutical industry, you spend hundreds of millions of dollars. And what you do is you have targeted ad campaigns in certain districts and you are able to give money to packs that support Congress people, that support whatever position that you want them to take. The amount of money is staggering, and after the Supreme Court decision, basically there's unlimited money in politics now. What is the biggest deal that you've seen behind closed doors? Now, we've been talking about insane amounts of money in politics, but for most of us, every dollar matters. And when you do spend your money, it is so important that you're able to make the most of it. And that's where our partner CashApp comes in. With the CashApp card, your everyday spending can unlock actual benefits, including personal ized cashback offers at places you already like to shop, and those benefits could go even further with the new CashApp green status. CashApp does more than you think when it comes to having your back and making sure your money stays your money. CashApp just released a new status program for the way people actually spend called CashApp green. 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This is a financial services platform, not a bank, banking services provided by CashApps bank partners, prepaid debit cards issued by Sutton Bank, member FDIC, CashApp Visa debit flex cards issued by Sutton Bank, member FDIC, and the bank court bank NA, pursuant to a license from Visa USA Inc, C terms and conditions for the Sutton prepaid card, Sutton debit flex card, and bank court debit flex card, CashApp green features, savings, direct deposit roundups, overdraft coverage and discounts provided by CashApp, a block, ink, brand, visit cash.app/legal/podcast for full disclosures. Is the biggest deal that you've seen behind closed doors? And I think it was 2022/2023, there was a whistleblower. And she was a senior executive and she brought a raft of information, of documents and documentation from internal documentation from meta. The story that she came to tell was this, is that beginning in 2013 when Instagram went live, and to like 2017, the rate among teenage girls between the ages of 13 and 17 grew exponentially. Likewise, the rate of teenage girls in that age category that were admitted to the hospital for extreme self-harm, even grew even at a greater pace than that. And meta question, because many doctors and others did, and families complained directly to Facebook and their product Instagram, is that they were the cause, that the algorithms being fed to these girls were leading to self-harm, extreme self-harm, and so they did an internal study, and they found that yes, there was a direct causal connection between the algorithm that many of these girls were being fed, or ubiquitously across the platform, 14 age girls, and was having an extreme negative impact on the health and wellness of our children. And you know what they did? Even after testifying in Congress, they did absolutely nothing. They did nothing, because at the same time what it meant is that they would have to make a decision about whether or not this extremely valuable algorithm was something that, and the revenue stream from it was something that they wanted to give up. Now think about this. And what world are we living, that the lives, literal lives of our daughters are worth anything, that any company's bottom line, or for judiciary responsibility to their stockholders, or blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And to me, I don't think that there's any greater example of how money equals power. Because by the way, it was during my dad's administration, there were Democrats that did nothing about it as well as Republicans. And to me, I just can't think of any example that is just more direct about how money impacts our health by virtue of what decisions people in Congress and in Washington DC that are elected off as both in the executive and the legislative make about the lives of our children. So given what you've seen, what is your relationship to money? I want to have a better relationship with money. And I really mean that, is that I got married very young, and I didn't have any family money. And I'd ever had anyone in my life in which money was the, money was a central part of a dinner table conversation. I always remember my first semester tuition at Georgetown University was, I think, $7,500. We had to deliver it on the day that I came to campus, unlike most people that already sent their checks in. And because he had to mortgage a piece of, you know, refine it's a piece of our house, the property, to be able to come up with that. And that's kind of the way that my brother and I were raised. And the other side of it, too, is that money for money's shake was never something that was accelerated in my family. It wasn't looked down upon. I didn't have kind of like a negative view of people that were business people. But the higher calling was always something what is, you know, what's your purpose and revolved around the idea of service more than anything? Do you wish that you would have been better with money in terms of your education and buying stocks and saving a certain percentage? Oh, 100%. After Georgetown, I had about $60,000 in student loan debt, and I went to do a thing called the Jesuit volunteer court, which was like the domestic peace court, where you make $80 a month, literally, and you pull your money and you live with other volunteers, and I ran a emergency service center in this neighborhood in Portland, where I help families that couldn't get their lights turned on, or the utilities were off in the winter, and I would advocate for them and help them get those things back up so that they could have, you know, that heat in the middle of the winter. And then I got married and had Naomi, my first child, and then I got in law school, and I took out, I think, at the time, it was all in for law school, and I graduated from Yale about-- And while we're on the topic of taking care of yourself, it's also really important to think about the people who depend on you. I think a lot about how much goes into building financial security, and making sure the people I care about are taken care of is a big part of that. Yeah, it's something nobody really wants to think about, but getting a plan in place is actually way easier than you would think with our partner ethos. They make getting life insurance incredibly simple, so you can make sure the people who depend on you are taken care of in case something happens. Look, I understand. Life insurance is one of those things that's really easy to keep putting off indefinitely, especially when you're young and healthy, but that's actually when you could lock in the best rates. 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Immediately out, I was a young father, a Yale Law graduate with no savings and about $165,000 in debt. In all the reason I bring that up is because you asked, but also is that I looked today and even with that, I was able within a year of graduating law school able to go by a house and fix it up myself. And that's what we did. And I then flipped that house and I was able to do that two more times. And that's the way that I had put a little money away in terms of having savings and giving myself a little bit of a cushion to be able to send three daughters to school and have a house and ultimately in Washington, D.C. for 20 years. What's been your best investment? A real estate, yeah. And so one of the things that my brother and I did with my dad is that we would literally have his, we just used to love doing this. And Delaware has these beautiful, beautiful, old homes, just incredible, like classic architecture and the Brandy River Valley and really, really neat. And all of the Dupont family had these amazing estates and really cool homes, but you know, a lot of them were fixer uppers. So he did that when we were young after my mom died. We bought this old Dupont estate that they were going to tear down. And then we spent the next 20 years, you know, working on it. And so I had, and I love to do that with my dad and my brother and, you know, the joke was that if you came over to our house, all of our friends is that expect to be put to work for at least half the time that you were there. There was always a project that was going on. How would you rate your finances one at 10? A zero. What makes it a zero? When I got out of law school, I went to work at a bank as an attorney and then in their executive program to become a banker also. And I left there as a senior executive vice president and had done very well. And I went to work in DC and I went to work for a guy named Bill Daley at the Department of Commerce where I wanted specifically to understand this new thing called the Internet. And a lot of my friends were building online companies and so I became the executive director of EEC. We used to call it E-commerce. And this is like 1999, 2000. I got a really incredible view into what was coming next in terms of new technology and particularly as related to at the time being called e-commerce and the Internet. And then the crash came then in 2000. And what I had intended to do was go up open up a law firm to focus on e-commerce policy and also the new issue which I thought was going to be the most important issue going into the early 2000s was privacy. The way in which people's personally identifiable information was being shared and collected as data without their knowledge or with opt-in processes in so many different ways in which the Internet was collecting our information. And then the bubble had until all of those friends of mine that were worth not all of it. But a lot of my friends who were worth millions and millions of dollars who needed that type of advice from somebody who was kind of on the cutting edge of understanding it no longer had companies to pay any legal bills. And I had a friend who was a Jesuit priest that when I was at Georgetown was a mentor of mine. He suggested that I talk to the president at the time of St. Joe's University which is one of many incredible institutions, Jesuit universities. And they needed help with potentially securing federal dollars to do a program of sending their PhD education students into the toughest neighborhoods in Philadelphia to provide for support and help. And so I helped him do that. And then he recommended me to a friend who at Scranton University and then he recommended me to that another Jesuit priest who was president of the university and I worked at Regis and I ended up, that became my business. The whole point being is I built a really incredible business around that. And then when Barack Obama chose my father to be vice president what I did because I thought that there was potentially a conflict of interest of me looking towards securing dollars within the federal budget for even though it was for like a mobile dental clinic in Detroit for Detroit Mercy where there was no dentist office or even if it was all of these kind of like great programs. It's still, I unilaterally and volunteered to give up that business which was really hard for me. Was it making money? Oh yeah. At that time for me I represented probably over 17 Jesuit universities. Could you have sold that business if it was doing well and it's like sell I get a lump on for that index? No because it was all based upon my personal relationship with this network of Jesuit presidents and what I was able to do for them in particular. And were you making like six figures a million dollars like it was. I forget what the exact number was but it was enough for me to be able to pay for my girls to go to private school in Washington DC and own a home and have two cars and not have any debt at that. Were you investing? No, not in the way that I should have been. No, absolutely not. What were you investing in? No, no, I mean like not because I was investing in other things. I wasn't investing in a. I had a friend who became my partner and he did a really great job of making certain that I was being responsible for Google with my money. Yeah. So he was monitoring your budget and investing extra funds or just kind of making sure that you don't. But again, not into the market. I didn't have any understanding or I didn't feel like I had any understanding but in terms of a 401k, retirement fund, 529s, all of the things that you would do responsibly without being a risk taker in any way. When in your life were you working your hardest right now? Right now is harder than when you were representing these different colleges. Yeah, because right now I basically have four different jobs. The common refrain from people, the trolls online is get a real job. So right now I am a principal at a recovery center here in Los Angeles called PeacPath Health. And my responsibility is to stand up a foundation, the PeacPath Health Foundation for the purposes of creating a free aftercare and availability for free aftercare and advice for people that don't have the money to go anywhere after they've done 30 days, if they were lucky enough to get those 30 days. I think it's the most significant, I mean, most important gap in the health care system as it relates to recovery. People do those 30 days, they have nowhere to go. They have oftentimes where they do have to go is not only dangerous. It almost ensures relapse. That's why I believe that you have the level of recidivism or relapse in people coming out of recovery. It's something that is near and dear to my heart, but that's one of the jobs I have. I also work with an organization called Basta Universal and they are 501(c)(3) and they are attendance rights and homeless prevention organization here in Los Angeles. That's Graham's favorite. Oh, man. Oh, yeah. Well, no, he's had some problems with rental properties here in Los Angeles. Oh, gosh. So I had a house in Santa Monica and a homeless was a huge, huge issue. Yeah. Well, that was massive and it got so bad and it ended up selling the house. Not because of the homeless people specifically, but I mean, that didn't help. I don't know. I don't even remotely help. I mean, the ten cities that came up in Venice when I lived there and in the way in which I mean, anyway, those are two that are like full-time jobs in and of themselves. And then I'm an artist. As we can see. Yes. Yeah. So you can see behind us, this is, yeah, he brought these to show them off and let me tell you that I'm impressed. I am a huge fan of your art. Thank you. Yeah. I really, really like it. And I am curious to take a quick side tangent here. What is it like selling your art and how have your art prices fluctuated over the last few years? But before we go on a honours art business, it's funny because when the topic of money comes up, we always want to know the interesting stuff like how much it costs, how much they made, how much profit there is. But we rarely talk about all the details behind the scenes. Because as a business begins to grow, so does the amount that you need to keep track of. 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Once again, upwork.com or just click the link down below in the description. My prices have never fluctuated. My prices are a reflection of the market. And so I've never set a price for a painting myself. I've always let a third party independent player do that. See when I was going on your website, hunterbiden.com if you want to look at the art, I not a paid promotion. I saw each piece of art and then I clicked on it and said inquire about the price. And I'm like, this is exactly how very, very, very expensive and luxury things kind of market things. They don't tell you the price. They always thought because I've inquired on a few pieces and not your pieces specifically just in general. And I always wondered. It's like, do they just Google you and they're like, oh, what's his network and let's just say it's like, oh, it's Jeff Bezos, yeah, the price is like a million dollars. But if, you know, Jack over here requires like 50 cents, yeah, so here's how it originally work with my art. Okay. So what happened was, is that I've been an artist my whole life. I've never, I hadn't sold my art, I hadn't shown in a gallery. But before my dad was even won the nomination, I met a galleryist in New York just by chance who came to my house in California with a mutual friend. And he looked at my art and he goes, hey, have you ever thought about showing your art? And I said, yeah, I mean, it's like, it's a dream of mine. But now he said, well, let's keep talking. And we, when we talked and talked and he said, let's plan a gallery show. Remember, before he lost Iowa, lost New Hampshire, lost Nevada, this was not anything remotely political. And when I joined, when I, when I agreed to be represented by this gallery in New York. So when I had the show, however, what ended up happening was, is that the New York Post kind of set me up. And I really mean this. They went to somebody, an anonymous galleryist in Midtown Manhattan, and they said, how much was 100 Biden's art worth? And he said anywhere from $100,000 a piece to $500,000 a piece. And I mean, I was like, all right, like that's great. Like that. And I called George and he kind of laughed, and he got the galleries at the time. And he laughed and he said, well, you know, it's nice for people to believe that. But you know, like, it's not, you know, as, as a first time exhibiting artist, I mean, the price is in anybody's estimation of what I've been able to sell my art for. It's really great. And I've been able to maintain a serious price that does not make it just an inexpensive commodity. However, no piece of art that I've ever sold has been close to what the New York Post said. And so what they did then, however, is George, and this, my galleries was asked by people in the press. Well, how much is 100 are for it? And he pointed to that article. And so then it was Hunter Biden was selling his art while his dad was president of the United States for $500,000 a piece. Now, I can tell you that's not true. And the reason I can tell you that's not true is because they had an entire impeachment hearing over it. They subpoenaed every person that ever bought a piece of art for me and including the galleries and people that just attended the show, all of whom had to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees to testify under oath that it had nothing to do with anything and how much they bought each painting for. And then they made all of that public. So you can go read it all online and that, you know, House Oversight Committee, like which is mixed in with like, yeah. Let me ask you this hypothetically, if you were selling for $500,000 a piece, what's wrong with that? Nothing. And that's exactly the point is this is that number one, certainly nothing wrong with it. Now, number two, as long as you're transparent about it and that I can show that I'm not selling to a Russian oligarch, like take the story today that's out as it relates to John Jr. is that a Russian oligarch came in that he's known for maybe a couple years. He gets remarried and this Russian oligarch who's close to Putin paid hundreds of thousands of dollars in cost for his wedding, okay. Now, I think that it's kind of a legitimate question to say, what is this person that's in 62 pictures with Putin and his sanctioned by the Ukrainian government and doing paying for the president's son's second wedding on a island and like, what's that all about? And so with me, I made it clear is that anybody that bought my art is that I would not sell to anyone outside of the United States. I would make it all transparent and I would make it all available to anybody and they even made a role while my dad was president that it would be anonymous to me, which made it almost impossible in many ways, like he wants to buy a piece of art and never be known to the artist that they're buying the piece of art. And that was the case and there's nothing wrong with it. Now, my dad's no longer president, nobody in my family has any power over anything as it relates to elected opposition. in any way. I'm an artist. I sell my art. I sell it for the price that the market will support. What's the most you've sold a piece of art for? I think the highest price was $85,000. By the way, through the gallery, which I got 50% of a little under 50% of. So when you sell through a gallery, they take 50%. I was curious, are you allowed to say who the coolest person is, who buy your art? I can tell you, the coolest person who has a piece of my art is Trump. That'd be a little bit beautiful. Well, there's the coolest person in the most important person. The most important person that has a number of pieces of art are my mom. I gifted her for Christmas. These beautiful flowers with alcohol ink on aluminum sheet that I knew she would love. And so she put them up in the White House in the residence, which is really cool. And now they're at home with her. But I just did an interview with somebody who, who, not just because of his work and film, but because of the person that he has been in public life is someone that I truly, truly admire. It was Martin Sheen. And he came to do a, to interview me. Wow. And I really, really just love him and his wife, Janet. And, and we have a lot of shared kind of understanding in terms of addiction and families and things like that. And I gave him a painting that meant a lot to me that I had painted, which was based upon the book of Kells, which is an ancient Irish text of the Bible that was created by Irish monks a long, long, long time ago. That's at Trinity College right now. A couple others. But mainly that I've gifted to my friends. Yeah. So what's the fourth job then? Yeah. The fourth job is writing. You know, I wrote one book. You know, it was released in 2021. And I have been writing on Substack now. And it's a full-time job. I have two books that I've written that I'm releasing on Substack right now that are one is kind of the continuation of the original memoir, beautiful things. And then another one is a, is an accounting of what happened in the rooms that I wasn't in, kind of the conspiracy to dehumanize me and impact our politics. And I've done an enormous amount of research and investigation into that over the course of the seven years. One of the things about it that was so incredible though is this. It's that I was able to write the other book, which is an incredibly cathartic experience, because just from literally I could tell the story of what happened to me when, you know, how I felt about it, the internal emotions and reactions to events that were occurring to me as they occurred to me. The other one was like hundreds of thousands of pages of documents and investigative work, and Senate Intelligence Committee declassified information and loads and loads of reporting on it. I was just like trying to get it all in one place, and which I've been fascinated watching some of the people that are experts with you guys is AI. I was able to use AI to feed in literally thousands of pages of documents to number one, literally give me a glossary of names of the people. And concurrent timelines and I like mine maps of who was connected to who, which allowed me then to write that second book with a, you know, with all the footnotes and everything that I would do. So here's a really good way to digest a ton of research. If you open up Claude, you create a project. This is one of the ways that I researched you for this podcast. I listened to quite a few of your podcasts you've been on. I didn't listen to all of them because there's probably 25 or plus in the past six months or so or maybe a year. And so I downloaded the transcript for every single one of the podcasts. And then I saved it as a PDF and then uploaded it to the context of the Claude project. And then I asked, how many times were these things covered in the podcast? And there were certain things like the laptop, which was covered in, you know, it's had 20 of the 20 podcast samples I provided. There were other things that were, you know, barisma that were covered, you know, 18 out of 20 times. And then it also gave me a list of things that weren't covered in any of the podcasts that you did. And this was all done in like 15 minutes of just downloading transcripts and then uploading his contacts. And then it's able to look through 20 plus probably 30 plus hours of content and no perfect answers immediately. It's incredible. It's truly, truly incredible. And I love people that are transparent about how they are using it. Because the beauty of the ability for, like for instance, I came in here. It's just you two. And so everybody knows there's not a team of people setting up a production and lighting and and like has like notebooks. And by the way, by the way, I've been to podcasts where that's the case. There where there's at least 10 or 15 people that are in the background doing things. The ability for you to do all your own research to be able to, you know, get yourselves over here to set up to be able to do it to to agree with each other, what the and do it as often. I'm I'm assuming that you I'm not the only person that you use that technique to. Yeah, yeah, yeah, right? It's just it's truly incredible. The productivity. It's beats us up. If transparent about it in a way that but what's by the way? So there's this whole debate on sub-stack right now. Because they put in one of those AI detection tools for everybody. And number one, a lot of the authors are saying this is total both like I'll put in a piece that I wrote in 1996. And and this AI detection tool will come up and say this is a you know, this is 75% AI. And the reason is is because AI trained itself off the piece that that person wrote. Yeah, and so the whole thing is is a little wonky still anyway. But here's what I feel like. It's I know some of the books that I think that are one of some of the greatest, for instance, works of of a long-form journalism like Bob Woodward's books. And Bob Woodward's obviously an amazing one of the the Hall of Fame investigative reporters that we've ever had, right? Well, I know Bob Woodward works with a team of researchers. And he always has. He works with a team of other writers that they collect that information and that go through the 600 page house oversight committee report. And so forth. Man, you can take that house oversight committee report and feed it into Claude with 16 other equally dense reports. And and if you if you have the capacity to know what you want and what you're looking for. I mean, how to and how to organize it. You can do incredible things. Really truly incredible. What do you think about some of the safety issues about AI? I vacillate between it's all a hoax. And I'm exaggerating. Yeah, like it's all like a it's all just to you know, drive, you know, regulation. No, I mean, it's all just to drive value like that, you know, this the end of the world and the AI is, you know, because they're trying to juice their IPOs, which they have to do in order to be able to sustain the burn rate that they're going through. Now, I mean, you know that there's a whole strain of thought. Yeah, yeah. From legitimate people that that's what it is. I find that just by my own which is which is nothing. I mean, as compared to what I know others have been able to do using AI is that there's a staggering difference in the way in which human beings are just by the AI that is available today on a retail level can live their lives if they engage with it. Well, I have a feeling that what we see is just the tip of the iceberg like what really is going on be like if they make something public. Yeah, it's a dumb down version of like what's really going on. Oh, look, man, I don't know many many people. I mean, what did did Elon and Sam Alman? Sam came out and they said that, you know, like, yeah, we got a real problem. We got to slow down and Dario is saying, you know, like, yeah, this could be the end of the world and that viral tweet that went out from that former entropic and said, it's a, you know, a 10% chance and then you look at some like incredible thinkers. Here's what I think. I think that we are on the verge of the probably the most significant, not probably, the most significant evolutionary leap in human kind throughout all of history. Because if you think about it, is that if you listen to people like Kurzweil and you read about some of the most important thinkers in this space, is this? If you read superintelligence, it literally, no one, no one can tell you what happens next. It would literally be as the equivalent of a alien, you know, spaceship, you know, landing in, you know, the middle of, of L.A. That was so superior in every, almost every respect to us in terms of our capacity to reason and then effectuate decisions. And everything changes then. And nobody can tell you tell you what that means. Now I always say, is it, do we have a Star Trek future or do we have a Star Wars future? And I think that along the way, think of all the amazing, amazing things that we are on the verge of solving right now. According to very smart and I think responsible people, whether it's related to our health, related to longevity, related to cancer research, related to climate change, related to the way in which we produce and distribute energy around the world. Just an incredibly utopian potential in our future. And the other side of it is that, you know, it may just us all. I guess I'm somewhere in the middle. I would love to know what your thoughts are on the potential age of abundance. And if AI ends up being this amazing thing and the economy is doing great and people's ailments are all cured. And we have this age of abundance, how you're planning on capturing that in the stock market. Are you going to be investing in AI and like buying different, you know, are you looking at that? I'm going to be calling you guys for advice is what I'm going to be doing. Well, technically, it's not financial advice. But entertainment purposes only. You can make a lot of money. Chris Camillo really likes Amazon and Robin Hood and Bloom, which I have done well in all three. All three. Yeah. Thanks Chris. Chris Camillo is a guy that we bring on the podcast. He's like a very smart. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He's a part of dumb money. And he put me on to a few stocks that have they've done well. So I appreciate that Chris. Yeah. He's a thesis that we're going to have robot workers. And they're going to take over just about everything. And we could create just about anything we want that's going to bring the price down and effectively make big purchases meaningless because you could just create anything that you want. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And by the way, bring it on. Bring it on. Yeah. Yeah. Because I really do mean that is that there's what's his name? Mo. He was at Google. But he makes that point is that I think in order to get there, it is going to be the dislocation. The the the feeling of not not having control over our future is going to be it's going to be really difficult. It's going to be a difficult transition process for us to go through. And if they are right that 95% of employment will be not only unnecessary, but irrelevant in a world in which there is AGI, then like that's going to be a tough time for people to figure out where where they fit in the world. I'm curious to know you've gone on the record and mentioned that you're like 15 or so million dollars in debt. Yeah. How does that affect daily life being 15 million dollars in debt? It's staggeringly difficult. And in this way, is it the idea that I'm 56 years old and I'm going to have to be able to figure out my way out of that. Now, to be fair is that I hope that I can come to terms with some of the people that I owe money to. I'm I'm trying an earnest to be able to to do what I can do to do that. Now, for everybody's listening, that debt was directly and solely related to my legal bills that I had over that were accrued over the course of four years. None of that debt has anything to do with my addiction or drug use or anything. I did not none of it. How much is that debt? Like about 15 million dollars. How every single penny of that is to defend yourself. How do they keep going like more and more and more? I would just think that for most people, they would stop it like, Hey, listen, you know, it's like 500 grand. We're not, we're going to stop. Well, why can't I just find someone to represent you for free? I feel like the publicity you guys have not had. No, you know what? They wouldn't in one of the reasons that they that I did have some people that did and they were great to me. Really wonderful to me. But if I had owed that, then I would it would be even more. It's it's insanely just think about this. Okay. I had a the Department of Justice, main justice, the US Attorney's Office in Delaware, the US Attorney's Office in Los Angeles, the US Attorney's Office in Washington, DC, the US Attorney's Office in Pittsburgh, cream tax at which is a different division within the DOJ, the IRS investing a criminal investigation unit and and House Oversight Committee, House Intelligence Committee, Senate, Senate Judiciary, House Judiciary, all of those are separate and work product, you know, workflows in in law firm as well as responding to and understanding how to be able to communicate whatever we need to be able to communicate through the press through courts and court filings. Could you have gotten a free public defender? No, I could not have. So if this happens to the average person. Yeah. What are they expected to do? Well, this is why I always say and I said this before it became my reality is this. It's like the I have soar on. When you say the federal government, you know, not being the Department of Justice in all of the agencies that that are either directly connected to it or that are part of the executive branch, it's incredible. Is it a specific individual or cohort of people that like give out those instructions and directions or is it just like this, you know, it's not supposed to be and not just by norm, but in the the last president of the United States that was instructing his Department of Justice what to do was Richard Nixon and he had to resign because he he even he attempted it and what was called the Friday night mask, which led to him leaving office. We are in a in a whole new world and we were in a whole new world as it relates to the way in which the executive, the actual president of the United States and the people that surround him in the White House are directing the the internal matters of the Department of Justice. So when I say the the federal government, I mean the Department of Justice, the FBI, the IRS, we had a whole panoply of enforcement organizations including the SEC, the CFTC and all of those different organizations, they need to be separated from politics in the political arm of the executive for the exact reason of it's not intended to be a depended upon the the whim of a single person. That's called a that's called a monarchy. It's truly if their gaze falls upon you. The process is the thing that regardless of whether you get indicted or convicted, it can kill you. I mean it can bankrupt you. If you want to mount a defense, it costs can cost depending upon the the length and complication of what you're being investigative for can cost hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars to be able to defend. So why not just declare for bankruptcy? Well, I might and truth of the matter is is that that may be the only option. I'm trying to come to terms with with the my creditors, which are mainly law firms and and also a few others in which I have been able to reset some of the a more reasonable and realistic payment plan with them. But you know, I plan on making good on what I'm responsible to make good for. Do you have like any assets now or how is it trying to acquire wealth when you're 15 million dollars in debt about and that's about and that's a rough number is that no, I don't. I'm the only assets I have. I mean, I have this as Nika would be happy with this. I have my time acts. It's a nice launch, by the way, which I love. But my only assets are my paintings that I have. And you know, like it's stuff that you accumulate over the course of, but no, I don't have any liquid assets. And anyway, how much money are you allowed to make? Well, I can make as much money as I possibly can. And that's and so you can still build wealth. Yeah. Oh, absolutely. So, you know, I mean, I hopefully have a what I want is a long and sustainable career in art. And I have you building some wealth is that anyone that wants to go and look at my art, this legitimate collector and really does a love art can go to under Biden.com and look at art. I'm building a subscription platform on sub sack and I have two jobs. What's your monthly payment towards this debt? Because there's certain amount you have to put away. Hey, before we go into that, while Hunter's dream is building up his art business, I'm sure most of you watching have an idea of your own, something you would like to turn into your own business, but you just haven't gotten around to doing it yet. And unfortunately, that's where most ideas stay in your head, in your notes app, or you just telling yourself that you'll get to it eventually. But now getting started is a lot easier than it used to be. You don't need a huge team, know how to code or spend months building a website because with our partner Shopify, you could take your idea and start turning it into a real business. Everything that you need to start selling is included and ready to go from day one. you can launch a store in a few simple steps and their AI site builder and design templates mean it actually looks good without hiring anyone. And when your first customer is ready to pay, shop pay is the easiest checkout on the market, so more of them actually complete the purchase. Plus when they come back, all of their details are saved. One tap and they are done. I've personally used Shopify a ton because before I worked with Graham, I said it probably five different Shopify stores because I tried literally everything, drop shipping, you name it. I kept going back to Shopify because I kid you not, there is not even a competitor. If you want to sell stuff online, Shopify is the best way to do it. Not to mention, Shopify powers millions of businesses worldwide from leading names like Mattel and Jim Shark to every day entrepreneurs just getting started. So if you're ready to hear the of your first sale today, head over to Shopify.com/ICH to start your free trial today at Shopify.com/ICH. One more time, that is Shopify.com/ICH or just click the link down below in the description to get started today. Is there a certain amount you have to put away? Yeah, no, not right now. There has been no judgment against me, so I don't have to now with others that are part of that. They have given me this space to be able to renegotiate the terms of painting that back. But with one of them, I'm in litigation right now and we'll see where that goes. By the way, we can edit this part out. It's off the record. Are aliens real? We should probably stop the cameras. We're getting into some tricky territory. So a little more clarity around building wealth while you're in this debt. Are you able to save money and buy stocks? Are you buying stocks? No, I'm not there yet. The truth of the matter is over the past, what has been about four months since I initially went back on social media? I've gone on shows. I haven't created my own platform yet other than my sub-stack. That bill is slow, but it definitely isn't enough money to invest in anything. It pays the bills right now. We lost the ability to go back to our rental home because of the fires out here. My wife is South African. We decided to go over to Cape Town and spend some time with her family, which gave us the ability to have somewhere to stay for a period of time with friends and family there. The truth is, I fell in love with Cape Town. It's one of the most magnificent places in the world and the incredible community of people. But more than anything, it's affordable. It's very affordable. What I'm in right now is a complete rebuilding process. Just complete rebuilding process. There's not enough wiggle room for saving yet, but I'm trying to build something. I've talked with Andrew Kelleyan to do maybe a show with them. I've talked to a couple of other people about building a platform. I don't know whether I have an image to do what you guys do 52 weeks out of the year. It's an enormous amount of commitment. I am incredibly impressed with it. It's not that I don't want to make the commitment, but I have to figure out how to, number one, maintain a thing that is part of what helped save my life, which is my art. The practice of art is not just important to me in the sense of the idea that I could sell paintings. That's the least on the list of why I call myself an artist first before anything else. You could have a social media page and monetize it and use it to actually market your art about your art. Like if you had a time of this, of you making a piece and you posted it on social media, I think that actually would do really well. And then you listed it for sale in it. That was like immediate, perfect marketing for that exact piece. I follow so many artists on Instagram. My favorites are when they have the canvas turned around and it's like a sound and then they slow. You have to be like a really pretty girl in a sky. That's what I always get. I always get a little annoyed with them. I'm like just turning around. You know what I always thought is that one of the reasons why you remember that show Chefs table, which I think is still on. It's an amazing, amazing show about cooking. I'm not a cook and I'm not a chef and I'm not a foodie. I'm going to enjoy food. But the thing about that show that was so, that just made, I mean you literally end up crying in every episode. Why am I crying about some Argentinian chef talking about, you know, the farm to table process that he goes through. But part of it is the way in which they film people in the process of their artisanship. You know, like literally watching their hands as they slice or pick or things like that. And I've always thought that about art. The content that I most appreciate about art is watching. It's like Bob Ross. Yeah. People love it. You could have your own Bob Ross show. That would be very easy to produce. Yeah. You know, who does that that is that genius is, oh my god, I can't believe I have to up my creatine dose get my memory back. What do you have to the artist? Choi Cho. David, is it David Cho? The artist, he did really, really well from self because he painted that mural for for Facebook at the outside. But he's much more than that. He was one of Anthony Bourdain's closest friends, but he's an incredible, incredible artist. And he does a show like that. Now he's, he's also a performance artist in and of himself. But yeah, I love that. Yeah. So I'm curious. We have to ask you. Yeah. What was behind laptop? What happened? Okay. So here's exactly what happened. I set out to build. And the whole purpose of doing this was to build a coin, a token that was different in every respect than what every other celebrity token, including Trump token was built. In which every one of them was built for max extraction, 80% insiders, you know, no lockup or, you know, very limited lockup and just pure extraction for the market. And which everyone has proven to be. And so I built a coin that number one reversed the tokenomics in which 30% of the coin was to the on the inside. And 70% of the coin basically was to develop and create community. 20% air drop immediately give away or over the course in two air drops give away a total of 20% of the value of the coin. And then this first ever unique element of a token ever done before and was a prediction market was basically embedded into the coin. So for instance, like yesterday, kind of trivial and fun as the Eagles win their season opener. So they won their season opener. That means we burn, I think in this instance, 0.5% of the coin, which raises the value for the rest of the community. And if the Eagles had lost, you would dedicate that amount to charity. So we have a minimum of 5% charity. And up could be up to a maximum, obviously about 35% charity, but more will probably end up in like the 15% range. And so all of these things. And also it was to troll. It was to troll, which is important to me politically and particularly with this audience, which I think is not exclusively, but a majority of 18 to kind of 35 year old that are engaged in cryptocurrency are engaged in meme coins. Like I'm not the first meme coin, you know, I'm like the 10 millionth meme coin. But what happened was this is that on launch day, within the first minutes, the a global leading market maker who had over 1.5% of the coin for liquidity only deployed $5,000 into the into the market for liquidity purposes. And so it went from we launched it $50 million. That was our launch price. It was significantly, I mean, low 50 million. And within three minutes, it went to $316 billion because we only had five, they only put $5,000, 30,000 coins into the liquidity pool, which made it impossible for anybody to execute their trades. And then all the, which we knew is all the bots came in. I think something like 85% of all of the trades in that first moment were bots, but it drove the price up to 200 billion and then up to $316 billion market cap, which is the largest in the market cap of BlackRock. And then within minutes, it came down to, but that's because they had a couple of people put a few thousand dollars in at these high prices because there wasn't enough liquidity to satisfy exactly like more reasonable price. And so what is the explanation of which we are trying to get an answer to, of only putting what they had one, they had a million dollars in cash, but available. Why would you create the coin in the first place? Because in my mind, I'm like, that a sounds like a recipe for disaster and be like, good luck explaining that to any audience aside from our audience. Yeah. Or even either I understand like five percent of what you just said, 100, I don't get it. I get it. And that means to you, but people won't get it. Yeah, no, let me tell you why is this isn't I I read the Internet of Money. And from my own experience, when I worked at the U.N. U.S. World Food Program, and believing in digital money, micro transactions, and the idea that of the democratization of finance, I truly believe in the crypto community. I believe in that. Okay. And what I thought happened in the last election was just a bastardization of and taking advantage of an entire community that is largely a political that is almost in every respect libertarian in the best sense of the word. And I just found that it was an incredibly dynamic way to talk to a new audience. I thought, and I still do think, and I think that that's what we will achieve when this evens out, which is not gone. And anyway, there's still value in the coin, and there's still value in the message. So one of the things that that like look of like, oh, like, why would you do this anyway? Well, because like the millions of people that are invested into this economy, is that I believed in it too. And I think that I can do it a different way. And I think that I can show that I can do this. From my perspective, it's like, I've never seen a meme coin launch successful ever. Well, number one, that's not necessarily true. But what's been successful? I mean, dogecoin's been successful. But that was never launched. That was launched as a bit of a joke before meme coins became a thing. But that happened organically. Yeah, but no, it's not like, nothing happened organically. There was a launch. Every coin goes through a launch. Okay, is that what didn't happen organically with us is that we were on the centralized exchanges, or had commitment from centralized exchanges, 48 hours before, that will alleviate it all of this. And after we announced that the coin would be coming out in 48 hours, we got just ravaged on crypto Twitter by whether it was trolls or bots or, you know, actual people. And we lost we lost our listings on the centralized exchanges at that time. And so there was 1.5 million tokens available, 1.5% 15.5 million tokens in the liquidity pool for this market maker. And instead of deploying, even if they deployed 20% of it or 10% of it, instead they deployed less than 1% of it. And it completely ruined the launch. Now we have a shot to relaunch and make it meaningful and do exactly what I said. But here's the other side of it is this. Ultimately, the value of this coin, I get to give away to charity, maybe anywhere from 5 to let's say 20%, depending upon the prediction market aspect of it, away. Which even today under this scenario over the course of at least two years, I will get to give away millions of dollars to charity, all dedicated to the recovery and addiction space. What other project could I do that would remotely? I'll tell you I think you create your own podcast. Yeah, social media. And because from my perspective, you have just been on this like massive comeback, where I've been seeing you everywhere, clipped everywhere. You've come off really likable, really just charismatic humility is the thing that sticks out to me. The fact that you went on a ton of effort and talk about it and just rolled with the punches. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Like, I listened to I loved the episode. Yeah. And I feel like, man, if you just continue in that trajectory, it's so good. Yeah. And that to me is like, that seems organic. Yeah. That seems like you're having fun. Like, you don't have to be here. Like, even when you agree to do that, I'm like, really? That's I was like, yeah, we're we're telling people. Yeah, we got we got a hunger coming in and I was like, no way. That's so cool. So to me, I'm like, Oh, yeah, just continue doing that. Yeah. Well, by the way, that's what I'm going to continue to do is this was one. Look, I'm taking a swing in ways that I think are from anybody's perspective are risky. So from your perspective, it's like, I was like, you guys think it's cool. I went on a tent. There is a whole audience out there who is saying what the if did you go on a tent for excuse my language or I mean, they are right. And so there is everyone who goes on maton is like, yeah, why did you go so much to lose everybody? Nothing to gain. And in the same respect, I have a whole audience of people out there that say, why are you going to talk to talk across and trader? You know, you're a trader. Why did you talk to Kansas zones? And then there's a whole group of people that say channel five, Andrew Callahan, you know, isn't that the guy that like was filming backyard brawls and, you know, out of his camper van. You know what I mean? Whereas I know it to be very different, maybe because I'm a consumer of it in a way that I think is interesting to me. But also this is who else goes to go talk to those people. And that was the idea of the the crypto community and the reason to immerse myself. The hard part is that now there is this narrative out there that's like, oh, you were doing all this like promotion to lead up to this like crypto meme query and cash out and cash out. That's a reality. And I'm going to stay here. And so that's not the reality in the truth. And by the way, and sometimes perception becomes reality. But not in the instance of me, what I have found is this is that I've been kicked in the teeth about 500 times. I shouldn't be here by all accounts and by anybody's estimation. Before I went out on Twitter in May of of this year, didn't have anything to do with cryptocurrency or any any of that. I didn't go on Candace Owens show with the intent and idea that that's what, you know, this is all about. This was something that I thought was an opportunity. And I still do to talk to an entirely different audience. When I talk to somebody that's 40 years old about cryptocurrency or about meme coins, I mean, their eyes glaze over and they say it's all a grift. When I talk to somebody who's between the age of 18 and 30, it's a very, very, very different thing. Meme culture in and of itself is not something most people understand, but it is a incredibly powerful culture with in its own silo that has I think ripple effects across the board. And so I'm going to try everything that I can. And as long as I do it in an ethical way, as long as I do it in a way that I'm comfortable with because one of the other things is this is that I know me for the first time and, you know, I've gotten to know me in a way and be comfortable and confident in my truth in a way that most people don't ever have to go through and being completely and utterly shamed in a global scale. And so I agree with you is that it was a risk. I took the risk. I'm absolutely certain that this is ultimately at the end of the day going to do exactly what I intended it for it to do. And I get to tell that story, but it's going to take a little bit of time. So who made money and who lost money so far with laptop coin? Nobody made money. Nobody on the inside has made any money. The way that it works is that the the 30% that is dedicated to what, you know, quote unquote, insiders, which is the people who hold the equity in the coin cannot touch or their money for at least six months and then invest over a two year period of time. There's a foundation. There's a liquidity pool. And then there is the pool related to the air drop and the pool related to the event burn, the prediction market side of it. So nobody on the inside has extracted any money from this. But what about losing money? Like, did you have any wallets that lost a lot of money on the coin? No, I don't see like a couple hundred few thousand. Yeah, exactly. And right now what we're doing, we're only five days in. So right now what we're doing, we have two independent reports that are being done. And I'm going to figure out exactly who I think that last I looked, one of the reports came back and 85% of the of the training that occurred in that first hour and which any significant change of capital enhanced happened was was through bots. And so and mainly in Asia. But we'll be able to identify every every single wallet and every single dollar and hopefully do what we can to to get corrected. This may be a very harsh opinion. But I would just like to say that meme coins are exactly like emphasis on meme. Like for the most part, you know what you're getting for every part. They're not an investor. That's true. Like, no, it's not even. Oh, by the way, do not buy my coin is the line that I use when I started out this thing and it is not an investment in any way. It's like a trading card literally. But if someone doesn't understand that who doesn't understand that the 90% of the market is a bunch of degen's that are are literally it, you know, it addicted to trading. And that's what it is. And it's all about attention is who can attain sustain and maintain attention. But then I'm thinking like, is that the market you want to go after is like degen's who are just trying to like flip if you had a few thousand dollars educated audience or uneducated and and hopefully I don't disagree. I don't disagree. What I'm saying is this is that I took a shot and I think that I can still prove my point as it relates to the coin. I think that I can show that it can be done differently. I think that I can show that it can be a tool. I think that it's a tool just like any hammer. You can use it to build something or you can use it to tear down something. And also I can say this to you is this. I also think it is a way in which you can build community and do well and do good at the same time if you do it the right way. That's what I believe. And the same rule applies to NFTs. NFTs were a tool, but the way that the community used NFTs was somewhat predatory. However, by NFTs as a fundamental idea are actually really interesting. They're really interesting and there's a lot of value in that. It's just the way that the community adopted it and expressed that. Parts of the community. And that is the exactly the growth phase that all of cryptocurrency is in right now. Yeah. So I hear all of these people say, oh, this is all a sham. This is all a scam. It's as if the dollar bill is anything but me. Okay. All right. And also, you know, like this idea, well, it's a way for people to operate anonymously in a black market in a criminal way. Well, as far as I can remember is that no cryptocurrency or anyone involved in cryptocurrency was involved in the crash of 2008. I don't know of any Lehman brothers in cryptocurrency right now. I also don't know of any city bank that has been laundering the money for terrorist organizations for, you know, however long and I, by the way, allegedly. I really care about that. No, exactly. But I really do mean this in terms of like this idea of the arrogance of fiat currency and the establishment and banking. Cryptocurrency it has a future. I am not the evangelist for it, but I am a believer in it. I am a believer in the idea that there's an entire generation of people engaged in an economy that most people my age don't even take a second glance at or understand. So you ask me, how do you in the future build wealth in this environment in which you are under that you have debt? Meam coin is not the answer to that for me. Understanding it, understanding it to the degree and its relationship to the to the current economy and which I've been talking to. Whether it's you guys or whether it's through a show like Mattan or whether it's through, you know, whatever audiences out there. And so look, is it also, you know, kind of live and learn is one of the things too is this is that that we had no optics into in which you're not supposed to be supposed to be a Chinese wall with the with the market maker. And, you know, one cup, you know, can ruin a day. You know, I mean, and not only ruin a day, but I now it's my responsibility to make it good. And as long as I'm just radically transparent about it, which I plan to be and I am being right now as much as I can be in terms of getting the actual information of what happened exactly. And, you know, make good where I can make good. Then, you know what? All the other stuff is not even remotely off the table. From what I see, it does appear like the best way out is through and with radical transparency, which it does appear that you're providing. So that's really good because, you know, I didn't necessarily, I didn't think that this was a cash grab from the beginning. I thought, you know, obviously there's a chance that it is. But I tend to believe the people that are willing to sit down in front of us and answer all of the questions with potentially millions of people watching. Exactly. And before the podcast, when we ask you, "Hey, is there anything off limits?" You say, "Nah, nothing." And I answer every single question that I possibly can. And I just know this, too. The coin is stabilized. There is an assurance that it is stabilized in that we can actually do what we intend to do with the coin and make good, if there was anything to make good about. But it all came down to that one market maker, one decision, and it was hard not to see how it was almost not intentional. And I'm not saying that it was. Could you see before launching that they only had? No, because you can't see into that. So that when you're sitting on the other side, the market maker is like a black box. And there are several market makers that you use. They had all of the liquidity, and we're providing that liquidity to other market makers. And there was the whole thing. And so when we were sitting there just looking at our screens and you see this, just think about this. There's never been a coin ever that hit $316 billion market cap anywhere. We launched the 50 million. We're at a, I don't know, 200 million FDB right now. So if that had been our trajectory, this would have been a great success, right? But in 10 minutes, it didn't just do a Christmas tree. It did a Mount Everest. And then it came all the way back down. But it was literally that spike happened in like a minutes, minutes of the coin launch. How much volume then was actually transacted during that very little area? Hey, by the way, really quick. If you want extra content just like this, as well as early access, and a bonus post show posted every single week, feel free to join as a channel member to get immediate access to all of that, as well as early access to everything else that we post, along with priority responses to all of your comments. So if that sounds cool, feel free to join. Would love to have you on board. Thanks so much. We'll get back to the podcast now. How much volume then was actually transacted during that very little? Very little, like you could have made a $10 purchase of the coin and it sent it up $30 billion. I mean, literally. See, that's it. It makes sense mathematically. It's just I don't envy you because you now need to explain yourself out of that. Exactly. And by the way, and like you said, nobody has an interest in understanding liquidity and how a liquidity pull up. I can do a complicate. I don't really understand. Right. Nobody. Okay. Grant me. I have people that are bidding and people that are asking. Those are the people that are willing to pay a certain price and willing to sell at a certain price. And then you have this money that makes the transaction actually occur. Now, if there's not enough money to make the transaction occur, then like if someone yeah, if someone puts a market order at a buy, but there's no money that fulfills it. And there's no one that's necessarily selling it. Then like the price can spike. It can go down. And so basically it's like the the loop of an engine. If that's absent, I just think why do you want you? It went to $75 billion. Just remember this. Trump coin has lost 95 percent of its value. Does anybody sit here and ask Don and Eric of why they would ever get involved in this. And they took out 80 percent. I think Max extraction at 3.9. But they don't give it. And what I was trying to do was show that you could do it the exact opposite. I wanted it to be the specific troll of how they have taken over industries and and and ideas and and made them theirs and then Max extracted from them and done the exact opposite of of of what they said that they were going to do. You know, and so I may have had all these highfalutin reasons of doing it. I'm doing it. Bottom line is this. In three minutes, the coin went from 50 million dollars where we intended to launch it. And because of literally singular trades that could have been anywhere from a dollar to to a hundred dollars. Senate billions of dollars to higher than any any any other coin. I think by a factor of several has ever traded. I would be excited to hear your third party investigations into the matter. If you publish that, I think I'm also what I will do to give them to you guys not come back. I'm also very curious. Yeah. What was going through your mind when you saw it? Oh, that's what was going through my mind. You should have done like a lie. Literally, the smile turned around. No, literally, it was just for the first like what the man is. By the way, for the first two minutes, you must have just thought like, you know, they're truly, truly, truly experienced people that are part of this. They were sitting there going like, and I'm like, what is this? Like how did we do? What? You know, and it was just the most infuriating because by the way, the whole thing was when I started this, I said, the only way that I'm doing this is that if no one ever could accuse me of doing a rug pull. And so we built everything into the tokenomics of it so that you could never be. But I feel like that's what everyone says. And then it's somehow it's just like, naming one other person that has gone through this, that, you know, a celebrity that is probably the hawk tour was like the last one. And it seemed like she was just innocent. And the only way to get back is like so bad. But my point is, is that there were people that extracted from her coin. She was not involved in her coin. Yeah, I know. I don't know by a bunch of people. I did not look man. I didn't get duped and conned by anybody. I went into this with full eyes wide open exactly what I was trying to tend to do. And by the way, and still have the coin still sits at the value that I wanted it to launch at. It holds that value. We have a two years of a prediction market or predictions to to burn coins. We still have over 10% of the coin to be able to air drop to to community. I still have an enormous amount of the value of the coin to be able to give away to charity. Look, that's it. The proof is in the pudding. The, and the, and the pudding is the ingredients have to be an after action report and independent. That's what I'm looking for happening that three 16 to see how many wallets were affected by it. You know, was it? I promise you, I guarantee you, I will, I will come back. I'll look, you guys will be some of the first I will send the report. And by the way, that's not like four months from there. I mean, that's like the end of this week. Oh wow. Yeah. Yeah, text it over. So we could just put it in the description. - We could link to the report in the description of the video. You guys would like to see it. - Yes, absolutely. - I can upload it to Claude, so I understand what it means. - Exactly, by the way, one of the reasons that we were able to figure that out is exactly that, is because ArrowDome gave us their initial report of exactly what happened, and we were able to feed it into Claude and give it into a granular level of exactly what happened, and that's what was fed out of it. - I'm surprised by your seemingly like, understanding. - Oh yeah, I don't even understand this. - Crypto and stuff like that, even like, knowledge on the Hawk Tula coin, you know. - I knew all the coins, because I looked into every one of 'em, and I wanted to know exactly what happened. You know, one of the things that had to happen was the Eric Adams coin, and what you figuring out, Eric Adams launched a coin, and he did this that and the other thing, and it went to zero within 72 hours. And I said like, okay, like, what are the mechanics of that? Why did that happen? Did somebody fully extract it? It turns out, I believe allegedly, someone extracted within the first, from the inside, it became clear that the coin went to zero. So how do you build a coin that does what coins were intended to do, tokens were intended to do in terms of building something and not max extracting? - And that's what we did. - Well, it seems like the best meme coins, though, are not associated with a person, like I'm thinking recently, it was like Ponds was one of those meme coins. - Yeah, yeah. - But when it's like, there's not a person, it's not a thing. It just somehow appears one day, and then some groups get a hold of it. - Now maybe I got a little bit ahead of myself as being an idea, and not just a person. And the idea is this, is the idea of a resilience recovery redemption, the idea that we all get to tell our own stories that we don't have to live in the narratives that have been written for us. That's the idea. You guys asked me why I'm doing this, is not just the coin in any way, the larger picture of this, is it I would like to build something. I think it's important. I know that it's important in terms of my future to have a financial future that goes along with it for my family, for my children. But for me too, in order to be able to make independent decisions to do the things that matter to me, that's important. But really, what is the, why I spend this much time talking about this, is because I know I have one thing that I am eminently qualified to talk to other people about, and that's about surviving. That's how to make it through, how to walk through the fire, about the idea that you know what, you make it knock down, but it truly in life is all about how you get back up. And so I look at this thing, as is that, I look at, look, I took a swing, I had the exact right intentions, I promise you, I'll be able to show that in every single way. And now I got to get back up. I took a bunch in the face on this one, but it's not the first time. And it's not like I'm happy that it happened. But I know that that is something that is, that I just can't walk away from things anymore. I mean, act as if they did not happen, or that I was duped, or that, you know, somebody, you know, nefarious, like, you know, there is no excuse. There's an explanation out there, but ultimately at the end of the day, everything that happens is my responsibility. What sort of financial goals do you have for your own life? My immediate financial goal would be to make good on the debts that I owe. That's number one, is to have the capacity to come to terms with the people that I legitimately owe money to, for my defense over the period. How does that relationship look today with those people? Oh, with most of them, it's great. It's been very understanding and been willing to work with me on that. And believe in me and believe in the idea that I will do exactly that. But number two is not, I have no interest in things. Not that I don't like things. Like I was talking about Nico Leonard in watches. I love watches. You know, I mean, I don't wear this. A time X is like a statement because I only wear a time X. You know, I mean, I love a Rolex. I'm not saying that I don't like nice things, but that's not my goal. And maybe it's because of what I've gone through and where I've been to. My goal is to be able to have and live in an environment in which I can nurture the most important relationships that I have, and that's with my family. Beginning with Melissa and Bo and my daughters. And to have an adequate space that you're not spending all of your time, like wondering what you're going to do at the end of the month. That's it. That's really it. Does investing play a role in that? Well, I hope that it would, I really hope that it would, but I have to get there first. I have to get to the space where there's any opportunity of any dollar that I make going to anything other than my immediate obligations right now. So what is your current, like, monthly expenses? I imagine that you could sell your art and like, cover that and then sum. You know? Yeah. I mean, I'm, I'm working on it, you know what I mean? And, and just remember is it literally, truly, it's just like this is the only opportunity for me to be able to do this in a, in any meaningful way, just start it like 16 months ago, you know? And I'm working on it. And, and right now, I'm, I am able to do the things that I need to be able to do to cover my obligations to people that I need to cover my obligations to, to take care of the family, put food on the table and pay the rent. Do you have a financial advisor or any sort of money manager? Not, not technically, but I, but I do have people that I trust very much that have been very helpful in, in advising me. Do you have any concerns about the future of the U.S. economy? I have. Oh. Yeah. What do you think is the biggest issue right now? Forty trillion dollars in, in, in debt. What do you think that comes from? I think 35% of the, more than that comes from one presidency and that's this one and over the, the two presidencies, but you can't blame all of the debt on any single president. I think that it is unwillingness for us to really look at the, at, at, uh, very uncomfortable and unpopular, uh, things that would potentially need to be done in order for us to live in our means. Now, remember, I mean, you know, part of it is about revenue, but, um, uh, but the other part of it is about the way in which we, um, uh, address entitlements and, and at some point, we're going to have to be able to reconcile the two or, or not in, in face the consequences of that. What do you think are the top three things that would need to change in order to stabilize the U.S. debt? Number one is to, uh, is to, uh, come to terms with, uh, how we are going to continue to organize and, and run our entitlement programs. Number two, you know, there's this whole push from progressives about, you know, a very easy catchphrase, tax the billionaires, tax the billionaires. Well, the fact of the matter is, is that, well, most people associate taxes, they associate it with the income tax, which is the largest driver of revenue in, with, with the federal government. Billionaires don't pay income tax and not because they're cheats on their taxes, but because they take advantage of the system as it exists. And, you know, I mean, you know, I must pay some, famously, pay some self, no salary. You know, Jeff Bezos pays himself a hundred thousand dollars. And why would you, uh, pay yourself a salary to be taxed in normal income? So taxing the income of billionaires is, um, is meaningless. Now, that being said too, is that, you know, I think people don't truly understand that out of 350 million Americans, there's only 984 families that are truly billionaires. And they pay no income taxes. Yeah, but you guys read, which is an incredible book and I, and I suggest that you read it, it's called the second estate. And it's by this, uh, professor who is a tax expert. And she talks about how we're dangerously coming close to a, to a society that very much resembles France in the late 1700s, eight early 1800s. And what you had, what they call the second estate is that you had the king, but then you had the futile that it basically they had created a system by which they were not taxed by the, by the king. And they passed all of those taxes down to working people. And, um, and right now, the vast majority of taxes fall on the 99%. So think about it. I thought the bottom 50% pays pretty much nothing in tax. Well, here's the thing though, between 99%, what do you think that the, uh, uh, that would push you in the top 1% of income earners in the United States? 700,000. That's exactly right, 750,000 dollars, 750,000 dollars. and I don't believe that most people think, and what we all know is that the chasm between $750,000 as your income and a billion is from not, you know, here, not to the moon, it's here to Pluto. Yeah. And so it's not about income tax, and many people have these aspirations and they think, look, you know, don't tax the rich. I want to be rich one day. You know, I want to make a million dollars. I want to make five million dollars. I want to make 10 million dollars. The difference between doing that and income, and having, you know, a billion dollars in wealth is, you know, two very, very different worlds. So how do you tax wealth? And it's a really tricky thing because you need to tax wealth. Wouldn't, wouldn't someone then say, well, why don't we get our spending under control first and then figure it out? Okay. Because here's the thing about that. Think about the politics of that. Getting our spending under control. All right. Every situation, of course, you should get your spending under control. You know, a bunch of Democrats did it. My dad reduced the deficit for the first time in, I don't know how many presenities. Bill Clinton, famously balanced the budget with the Democratic Congress. So getting our spending under control is obviously something that's really important, but the way in which they went about it in this past four, you know, two years, this, this has a nine. I mean, like take, for instance, like the, the whole doge push, you know, doge, you know, end it USAID. You know how much money we spend on USAID? And as a percentage of the budget, less than three percent. So I thought, and again, I could be misinforms here, but I thought in terms of ending it, it wasn't ending it. It was just annotating exactly what the funds were. It's over USAID basically all of the, all of the organizations that were funded by USAID that promulgated anything from the PEPFAR program that saved 20 million lives around the world to enormous amount of good that we've done over the, in the world since its inception in, you know, 50 years ago is gone. I thought it'd be gone. And I'll put it up. If I'm incorrect here, I'll, I'll note that I'm incorrect. I thought Elon said that he wasn't ending it. He just wanted to annotate what the funds were used for. And if they agreed to publicly disclose exactly where the funds went, he was all for it. He said that. And that's not true. 100%. He 100% say that. And I can show you where it is absolutely not the truth is that we had, I don't know how many thousands of workers that were in Sub-Saharan Africa that were for USAID distributing these programs that were critical to, you know, to so many people and saving so many lives. And then there's this whole argument that he says, oh, well, you know, it was all, you know, Joe Rogan says, oh, you know, it was all CIA fronts and, you know, intelligence operations. And they were, you know, funneling money into, you know, my point about that is, yeah. What if some of it was? What do you, how do you think we got information and intelligence in places in the world where no other plate buddy could have ever gone? I work for the US UN World Food Program as chairman of the board of that. We were responsible for the $2.6 billion, $60% of the UN World Food Programs budget. The largest humanitarian organization in the world, we've had 70 million, 75 million people in 80 different countries around the world on a daily basis where every single major hotspot in the world at day one from whether it's refugee crisis created by war or a tsunami in the Philippines. And you know who is there first? Who is there first? USAID with boxes and boxes of material and food for these people in which it says a gift from the American people on every one of them. It was the most important soft diplomacy that we had as a nation. Why would they want to end the programs? Because I think that he had an enormous distrust and dislike for programs like USAID. I don't think that he believes in them. I don't think that he believes that, as he said, famously said, is that the thing that is the most, you know, corrosive thing in American culture is the idea of empathy. Remember when he said that? And I think that that's because what he believes. And I also think that he believes that that's because he could at that time is that they were almost drunk on power. And what's the lowest hanging fruit? Everybody always says, well, you're spending money over there and why aren't you spending it on homeless people over here? Well, I think we're a great nation. I think that we can do both. And I think that we need to do both because there's our responsibility as a great nation to be able to do both. I think that it is in our interest to be the benefactors of people that no other people stand up for and in the world. I think it's the greatest power of the United States of America is the idea of who we are. And right now, who are we? All it seems to me is we're dropping bombs. And we're not dropping, you know, food and medicine in any way. That sounded like a campaign speech to me. I saw the hands of the thumbs kind of right here. I know that's kind of the way I started to do them. No, it's something I care deeply about. Yeah, I care deeply about. All right. Unfortunately, we are in a strong time constraint. So we would love to do a part two at some time. I would love to. But we're going to do rapid fire questions to kick this to an end. Do you own a single stock? No. That was like a bomb being dropped right there. That's crazy. Can I, what does like send you a stock? Oh my gosh. I can send you a stock. Of course. Yeah. I will send a stock. I will give you the money to buy a stock. Yeah. You tell me the stock and I'll find the money to put in. By like one share of Apple. You know, not work. That's crazy. I'll give you the money. I'd rather rob. All right, I like that. Shout out Vlad 10 CEO founder of Robin Hood. We're getting Hunter Biden. The first stock he owns is Robin hits done right. Okay. What was the biggest surprise that you've seen at the White House? How dedicated the the staff that remains with the White House are most wonderful people in the world. It was maybe not a surprise, but they made it a beautiful experience to be there. And they stayed through administration to administration. And they show no sort of no. They're wonderful, wonderful people and just incredibly dedicated to the idea of the honor of anyone to ever walk through those doors. They just really, really, really cool, beautiful people. I want a specific answer for this. What is your one least favorite thing about Trump? It's his cruelty. It's cruelty. One specific example of that. The way in which he particularly talks to female reporters, really, really, really, really, really bothers me. What is the one thing that you admire most about Trump? His tenacity. Anything specific? He has taken delusional thinking to an art form that is that is almost hard not to admire. Give me the example. I really do think that he thinks that he six, three ways to 125 pounds. What do you think he actually is? I think he's probably more like six feet and probably ways to 80. I mean, maybe 275 if you know, but but it's amazing how much that he is self-deluded in things to the degree that he makes into a reality. Can you do a Trump impression? No, I can't. I'm not going to try. What's the cheapest thing about you? Probably close. What brand is that shirt? Levi's. I don't even know. Let's talk about this. I love that. Yeah. What's your biggest insecurity? Almost every one of the true insecurities. I got to lay down over the course of the last seven years and rebuilding my life. I would have said before that you were going to find out about my secrets. My biggest insecurity would be that you would have found out I was a crack addict, not just an addict. My biggest insecurity would have been that you found out that I was in motel rooms with people that you don't want to be in motel rooms with. But every single one of my secrets has been exposed. So it's almost a blessing? It was one of the greatest blessings in my life. Save my life. When's the last time you cried? Last night. I was watching Lioness and they found Joe. Do you guys watch Lioness? No, I don't know what to talk about. That's amazing. I don't know what it is. Everybody will know. Lioness is a show on Paramount. It's one of the she was kidnapped and they found her. I was okay. It was overwhelmed. And lastly, I cried all the time. If you had this amount of money, you would feel financially free. So I watched you with John Morgan. John Morgan. Yeah. I'd say half that. I need to have that. He said, remember, he said 30 million in a paid off house. 30 million dollars in a paid off house. So 15. I can do with maybe a, I guess, you know, a third of that in a paid off house. That's a great number. That's what a lot of people say in a paid off house. A lot of people say it's 10 in a paid off house. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. All right. Well, Hunter, thank you so much for coming on the ice coffee. No, this was an honor. It's such an honor. No, mine. I'd love you guys, so thanks. Thanks so much. I'm coming back. Yes. We would love to have you back on. Thank you, guys. So much for watching. All of his information will be linked down below in the description, including the gallery. So if you want to check it out, you know where to find it. Thank you so much for watching. Till next time. This is something that the left is fundamentally right about that the right does not want to acknowledge. Nothing. Get the-- get out of my face. Don't see. I don't know how I let you back on this campus. Don't want to get me. Don't give up. Fuck. How difficult is it to change someone's mind? Depends. So you have plenty of friends, I'm fine having a few enemies. They're all in the same room. They're all going to the same parties. And when they all share the same worldview, it's a blind spot. How much money have you lost by not being a PC? Many tens of millions of dollars. I bet people say that I was a hate speaker because as it's soccer was-- I do. I think so. What political beliefs have you changed your mind on? I don't know that anyone has ever actually convinced me to take a more left position. Who's been the most intelligent person you've debated? People aren't going to like this answer. Hey, how about this? If that wasn't enough, you get our next episode as well for a limited time. So if you join as a channel member, you get now two of our following episodes right now to watch. Our next one's actually with Joshua Weisman. If you want the preview of that, here you go. Enjoy. So you started out as an overweight teenager who loved food and now your shredded, rich, successful YouTuber with 10 million subscribers. How much time is realistically needed to get to like a decently impressive home chef? I didn't go to a culinary school. I worked in restaurants in real-life scenarios, learning real-life techniques and tricks. Where's the last one? What's the worst thing you've seen in a restaurant? State officials today looking to address the growing issue of substance abuse within the restaurant and hospitality industry. There have been people that I've worked with that were like addicted, and then one day they just disappeared. Someone was standing up with their chef knife, the person stood up and turned into their knife. They got rushed to the hospital, got stitched up, went back to service. How much money do you think your restaurant's going to make? I have no idea. I mean, how much does Gordon Ramsay make on his restaurant? It's like $200 million a year. This is my new restaurant, which officially opens today, and it's called Ben and Lins. What's the most you've ever paid for in here? One of the most expensive ones was for you guys. I wouldn't say it's phenomenal, not my cup of tea. It's too buttery. What is the biggest mistake that you've made?