Howie Mandel Challenges Me on God, Homosexuality & Truth

- I live in hell. I have mental health problems, I live in hell. I'm in turmoil 24/7. I can't tell you the horror that I live in every single day that maybe I've offended somebody. I can have incredibly dark, violent, horrific thoughts that go into my head and then it just keeps repeating and keeps repeating. My wife finally, about 30 years ago, was about to give up on me after 20 years of marriage. I make everybody's life around me, hell, I self-medicated, pot now, and to virtually try to make myself unconscious as much as possible. - Is anyone ever asked to pray for you? - No, people tell me they've paid for me. - Can I pray for you? - Hey, before we dive in, if these videos have meant anything to you, if they've helped your faith or brought you closer to God in any way, make sure you're actually subscribed. A lot of people watch every single week and still haven't hit that button. It only takes two seconds and it helps us reach more people with the gospel. 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All right, let's get into this episode. Do you believe in God? Well, you know, I'm Jewish and we, and I'm not, I'm not at, I'm, I don't practice. I think I do practice in my own way. I believe in a power greater than us and I have respect in a power and different in Hebrew. It's I don't know or whatever in your religion. It's Jesus or you've given it an image and I'm not saying you're wrong or I'm wrong or I'm right. I believe that we need, we need as human beings to have something to hang onto, to have a purpose, to have that gives us a direction. So I believe, you know, and there are many, many religions in the world and I respect, I respect humanity and I respect that humanity has a power greater than them and we all need that path to follow and that purpose for getting up each and every day and if you want or need or have or believe in something that is giving you that purpose and millions of others that purpose, then I believe in that. But it doesn't necessarily manifest in the same way as maybe you or other people believe. But I don't believe this is it, if that's the question. - Do you think that the, do you think that there can be multiple paths, right? I know we kind of talked about this, the code exists. - I believe, I believe, I don't know that there's multiple paths but I believe that there's multiple interpretations of the same path. - So do you think that each religion is a different interpretation of the same path? - I believe within the same religion, there's multiple interpretations of the same path. - I believe that there are, I know a lot. - So like denominations. - Pardon me? - Like denominations. - Well, I believe that there are people that are Christian that don't believe in everything you believe in and don't act exactly like you do. I believe humanity that we're all like snowflakes. We're all a little bit different and unique in our own. I believe that you could find people, I don't know what church you belong to or if you even belong to a church. I believe within your church, words are interpreted differently and what somebody else feels their need, however you interpret what you're going to do or what you need to do can be interpreted differently because we are not the same. Your brain, your hearing, your interpretation is not the same. - Yeah, like I think, like the term we would use is hermeneutics, like that's the word that we use to describe the way that we interpret the Bible. And so if it was, like I'll give you two examples of issues. One is we believe in this thing called the Trinity. So we believe in one God, but three persons that are co-equal, co-eternal among the Trinity. So when you view the Holy Spirit, some people may say the Holy Spirit doesn't heal people today supernaturally. Whereas I would say I think people can get healed supernaturally today by Jesus. And so like that distinction right there, in my opinion, doesn't change the game of those two Christians, like one guy isn't Christian because he believes one or the other. Whereas if we stand back and then we take a moral issue, we take a moral issue, for example, on morality, good and evil, whatever maybe sexuality, things like that. Or Jesus, core primary values is Jesus God, is the Trinity real, is the Bible without error, without flaw, things like that. When you start interpreting that, that's where I would say someone might not be Christian determine on what they say. But I would imagine that I could find a Christian that you may not believe is a true Christian because of their interpretation, but they say they're a Christian. Yeah, but my level of judgment on someone a Christian, how do I say this? Okay, when the Bible says do not judge, that would be like me telling you, hey, stop doing this issue, but I'm doing that issue behind closed doors. Well, according to your Bible, I'm not supposed to be on America's Got Talent. Wait, why is that? Do not judge. Well, come on. Oh, I just thought. Come on. But you know what I'm saying, right? My standard of judgment isn't gonna be, I don't know, like I, I don't, here's the point. The point that I'm making is even if it's do not judge, just as human beings, your perception and its person. See, I believe that 99% of decisions, actions and whatever life produces is based on perception over reality. And reality being, you know, you know, the real, what did I just do? What did I just do? You just clapped, did I? Maybe he doesn't think I clapped because it didn't apply. Maybe he thinks I just put my hands together really quickly. I mean, that's maybe, it's how you perceive it. You perceive it and maybe millions of people perceive that as a clap, but somebody perceives it as, oh, he, I think he killed a fly. I think he, you know, what do you perceive is happening when you, it's it, how are you interpreting what you see, what you hear, what you read, what somebody has told you? It's, it's really fascinating to me. And as a 70 year old, it is really, and having gone through life is, I can't tell you how many times people have been in the exact same room. I'm not even talking about religion. I'm talking about just humanity. I've been in the exact same room. Kind of experiencing the same thing. And there are five, six different stories about what happened. Yeah. And so I think when it comes, okay, the, the clapping thing, right? If it was to determine whether you clap, put your hands together or killed a fly, I would look at more than just the moment, right? So if it was literally to kill a fly, then there would be evidence of a bug killed, maybe a stain on your hand. Maybe you then grab a, you know what I mean? And so there's gonna be more than just a moment to make a judgment on. And I think that's where, that's where I think that that scenario differs because as a Christian, when I have a view on, I'll take a polarizing example, like homosexuality. Like I think homosexuality is wrong, according to my perception of not just scripture, according to your perception. Yes, unscriptured word is buts that, but hold on, not just scripture though, because someone's gonna read the Bible and they're gonna take verses out of context. So how do I know, right? So then the question is how do I know that the context that I'm reading out of is the right way to read the context. It's right for you. And we'll see that's where I think it differs because when it comes to morality issues, right? Because now you're saying perception. Do you think that what, so let's go on this, do you think that what Hitler did was wrong? Absolutely. Well, what if I think what Hitler did was right? I think you're wrong. But you can't tell me that I'm wrong. I can't tell you I'm wrong. You can't. I can. I don't believe you can. I did because when saying, but that's the point is that when saying that people have different interpretations of scenarios, we're now saying that morality becomes to bad. But you know, you're just saying, you're just saying the same thing as me. Clip. There are a lot of people, there are a lot of people, and I don't respect this view. But there are a lot of people that are living today, sadly, that don't believe that Hitler did something wrong. And I can't get in line with that, and I believe that they should be punished for that. But they believe it. And that's what's fascinating to me. What's fascinating to me, I used to say, my in-laws are Holocaust survivors. And I'm very strongly pro-Jew, the Holocaust, there are people that deny that there was even a Holocaust. But I should say, what's fascinating to me, the most fascinating, because I do think part of the human condition is, you know, a mental depletion. Some people have, you know, there was something wrong with Adolf Hitler. In my mind, there's absolutely no denying that there's something wrong with Adolf Hitler. What I find fascinating is the fact that he was able to get millions, millions of people to follow him. Not only follow him, think that that was the solution. That that, people who were doctors, people who were educated, people who are, you know, I'm friends with a lot of German people. I've been, you know, there's no difference between a German person, you and I, there isn't. So what was it about these teachings or this rhetoric that went out there that was able to capture people so much, so much, so that an average person who wasn't in the army, who wasn't in the SS, were willing to point out that the neighbor was hiding a child in the basement and, and, you know, ratting on them so that that child would be taken and murdered. What is it? Why did society follow that? Because that was, in the most extreme form, a perception for their own survival. That's how they needed to survive. That was the path they needed to take. He even named it the solution. Yeah. So I believe that what he did was wrong as well. So what I'm, what I'm, what I'm getting at is the, because when you're, when you're talking about the perception thing and you're like, well, that's your perception. But when you get down to moral good and evil, if I were to sit here and say, well, I don't think mass murdering people is wrong. And you look at me and say, well, it absolutely is wrong. But then you say, well, there could be, I think my question really comes down to, do you believe in absolute? Do you believe in murder? Do you believe murder is wrong? Well, do you believe in absolute truth? Yes, I do. Okay. So do you believe in capital punishment? I do believe in capital punishment. Well, then that's a, that's a dichotomy. Well, it's not because you have a reason to murder them. Well, no, I don't, I don't, I don't, I bow shall not kill. Yeah. So killing is different than murder. Bow shall not kill. Do you believe in that commandment? Yes. Even if that, if that person did something horrible, killing is different than murder though. Murder is the intent to kill. Well, you intend to kill somebody that did something horrible. If they, here's what I do believe, if someone ran in here trying to kill us all right now and I had a gun and I reached out and I shot him and I stopped him from killing all of us. Do you think that I should be killed? Do you think that I should be punished for saving our lives? No, stopping a shooter. Okay. So that's not the same thing. That's self-defense. That's, that's a whole different scenario. What I'm saying is they caught a guy who is a bank robber in the, in the, in the throws of his bank robbery. The gun went off and somebody died at the bank and he gets charged with arm robbery and first degree murder. In some states, he could be given the death penalty. So, so what we believe is Christians. So, so the capital punishment issue first, the Bible does talk about capital punishment. It says in scripture that someone was liable of capital punishment if they were caught in adultery. Now the standard for catching someone in adultery so much so that they could be murdered for it was so high. Like, there had to be multiple, multiple witnesses that all told the same story and in adultery, there's, it's typically just two people, right? So that typically never happened. But there's your perception. But in, but this is where I'm getting at is the absolute truth thing. Like, do you believe an absolute truth? I believe in my truth and your truth. So then that's what I'm saying. If you believe in my truth and your truth, then you can't tell me if I think that what Hitler did was okay, which I don't, but if I did, you can't tell me that that's wrong. I could tell you and this is how I speak. You ask me if I'm religious. I believe 100%. It was wrong. It's horrific and it needed to be taken care of and and and and people need to be punished for it. If you don't, I, I will not agree with you with that. If you didn't, and you know, you do, but if you didn't believe that was bad, I would have a less respect. I wouldn't respect you at all. And I wouldn't like you. And nor what I want to spend any time with you. That being said, I understand that that's how people think. And I know that that is the milieu of humanity. There are people that believe totally different things. Some of the things that they believe are unfathomable. I can't, I can't get on board. I can't respect it. I hate it. But that being said, it's part of humanity. Well, that's why I choose an extreme example like Hitler because you and I can both sit here and go. That was awful. No one in their right mind could look at that scenario and go, yeah, it was okay that he did that. But that's what I'm saying. The point of your people do make a, they do make a case for it, which is, which is wild. But if truth is really relative and what I mean by that is subjective to the scenario, your truth is your truth and my truth is my truth. Then you can't hypothetically tell the person that believes what Hitler did was okay. You can't tell him that it's wrong because truth in it's objective. But why is that the same thing? Why are using that as an example to, here's where we are on the exact same path, different names, maybe even a different personal vision of what it is. But you believe in Judaism, we don't like to, we use different words for God. Yeah, I would call Jesus Adonai. Okay. Yeah, because of the trinity, right? Like my view of the trinity. I would call him, I get it. My point is that we're all in the same path and whatever it takes you to, to, or me, to find my way there. I believe in a power. Maybe I'm using a different name than you. I believe in a power greater than us. Even if that power, it could be, I don't know. I just know it's there. I don't know. It could be science, you know, it could be something, it could be, but I believe that when something is greater than you and unexplainable, I believe that we need to respect it. And to know that there is something more or to feel like there's something more allows you to, when you realize that this is not it, that gives you a purpose to follow a righteous path. You know, like to be, you can't do whatever you want and cross every line and every boundary and every law just because it would almost be easier to do that if you go, this is it. Man, I don't give a shit. I'm not sure you would use heaven. We don't use heaven, but I just, I believe this existence is much more than than this. Yeah. I believe that we are here. Our souls are here. This is a learning purpose. And the longer we exist in this realm and even realms above, we are learning and we are getting better and we are getting closer to the, I'm using terms that I don't necessarily believe, but closer to the light for, because I think we need imagery and names and just because of who we are and how we function, it's really hard to describe, understand and pray to abstract. Yeah. So I think that saying that there, I believe that there's a higher power, that there's a light. And my mind, that's like the first step. It's, okay, there's got to be something greater. But to say, I think we should respect it. I think we should respect whatever that power is and walk in a righteous path. I'm like, okay, well, what is righteousness? If we don't even know what we're respecting. If it's just a power, because blanket stating a power, I think is a great first step. But what is righteous? Well, that's what I mean. It's like, if it's just a power, that's why I believe in absolute truth, whereas my, but absolute truth is the nine that anything like you can't be apt, then you close your mind. We are as human beings so gifted in the, in the fact that we have the ability to learn, to change your, the perfect example of that. If this is absolutely exactly the way it is, I would, I would pursue saying, this is the way I think it is. But you know, you show me another way, not that I'm open to it, but I will listen to it and I will. So the word absolute truth kind of bothers me in the sense that as opposed to saying, this is what I believe is my truth. Because absolute seems like, I don't think there is an absolute truth. I think there is your truth, my truth, the world's truth. And hopefully we can find some compromise where we can all, because these absolute truths, for me, are causing delineation. And it's becoming very tribal. And you know that most of the negativity in our world and violence in our world is caused by these barriers of, this is my truth, not your truth. So let's get rid of what I don't believe is the truth. Yeah, so I can understand what you're saying. If we don't have, it's like this carpet is blue, because somebody who created names for colors and described red as red, blue as blue, they put an absolute definitive that that is blue. Well, I'll argue with you. Well, what color do you think that is? I actually don't know, but the point that I'll tell you why, I'll tell you why. No, I'm not trying to be funny. I'm colorblind. Okay. So the way that colorblindness works is, do you know what color is, do you know why you see that as blue? Why do I see that as blue? Because it's a reflection or maybe I'm using the wrong word, there are like nine colors in the spectrum. I don't know blue plays for this, but brown is like, is brown orange and green mixed together? It reflects a refraction. I'm not a scientist, but whatever my, no, I can see color, but I don't see them exactly the same as you do because of the, the lilt of, of, I don't know if it's my retina or whatever. I don't see the same reflection. I'm not even allowed to get a pilot's license because I sometimes can't see red or it just looks brown or green. It looks the same to me. So what I'm saying is the majority of people say that that's red, it is red, but because it doesn't look red to me, am I wrong? Well, that's what I'm saying is you're still calling it red, even though it doesn't look red to you. Because I'm communicating. That's what my communicate is. But who, who has defined that as red? Because universally, people excluding, you know, your retina issue and, you know, having the colorblindness, people defined, someone defined red as red, blue is blue, orange is orange, brown is brown. And so universally, even for colorblind people, you're like, well, red looks brown to me. Well, how do you define that that red looks brown because you have an idea of what brown has maybe been described? I know what you're calling it, but I also know what brown is. So I can, I can say that that when you have this shade of something, it looks different. I can't see purple because I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm blue-green colorblind. Gotcha. Okay. So I can't, I can't see purple. And that's maybe not the best example, but what I'm saying is through our experiences and through how we interpret it, you know, here's the, the absolute truth. There is no defining goodness. Good is good. Good, you can't, you can't define my good as bad. Like pure goodness. Yeah. So like, okay, let's not take color, for example, that letter B and my name is Bryce. Like that's a B. Yep. That's absolutely true that that's a B. Yeah. Because someone decided it was a B. And so even saying, like even saying, what about somebody who doesn't speak English and can't read English? Well, that's what I'm saying. And maybe there's a, I don't know that I'm not smart enough to know this, but what there are languages that don't have sounds that we have. So that means nothing to them. But in, in like Hebrew, there's five words for the word love and the English language we have love, right? So they're depth of descriptions of love are different. That is, in, that is completely different than saying, but it's not the absolute truth. It's not the absolute truth unless absolutely every human being, everybody in existence identifies it, knows it, sees it and interprets it the same way. If you don't, it's not absolutely. That is a good majority of Americans, North Americans, English speaking people, people who know English, people who have learned to read and have seen it. That's their truth. So, so then let's take it. Let's take it another step further than because even saying, my truth is my truth and your truth is your truth. That is an absolute truth claim. When we say, when you say that, you know what I mean? Like you saying, my truth is my truth and your truth is your truth. You're putting. Well, you're saying it's absolute truth. You're telling me that there isn't somebody that would say, if he says this is his truth and he says this is his truth, that is proving there is no absolute truth. Well, that's what happens exactly the same. That's what happens in court. You have a, you have a defendant and you have a prosecutor and they're fighting for what is actually true. They both came true. No. They're fighting for without a shadow of a doubt. So, when there is a shadow of a doubt and it's just 12 jury members of your peer, it's an interpretation and how do they interpret the law? And they have to sit there and read the instructions to the jury. It's like, do you think OJ killed his wife? I do believe he killed his wife. Okay. Why was he, why did he get off? Because they didn't convince the jury. That was, but that, but it doesn't matter what they did or did in court. There was a truth behind it, but both of them are fighting for their son. And you think that in the app, because there is an absolute truth either did or he didn't. Yes. And if you don't know the absolute truth, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. And I think that's what I'm fighting for right here is because I'll give you this. There probably is an absolute truth that exists, but you'll never, we will never know with the absolute truth. We will believe we know it, but we will never know it. Well, I'm making the case that like as human beings, like because people, there's going to be a Christian that thinks homosexuality is okay, whereas I don't think it's okay, where we differ on views and stuff like that. Even though I believe that there is an absolute truth, because you have free will, you have the choice to either say Jesus is true or he isn't true or I believe in more than just Jesus or I believe in a light. So God is being the most loving God He can be from the Christian perspective to give human beings the choice to. Great pause, gas, groceries, eating out, even on the tightest budget, there's just no escaping them. But here's the part you can actually control. Earning cash back every single time you fill up, hit the grocery store or go out to eat with the upside app. And our sponsor for this video is upside, but I'm not just reading this, I actually use the app. Checking it before I fill up has honestly become automatic for me. It's not something I remember to do, it's just part of pulling into the gas station now. Here's how it works. The app gets you cash back on gas, groceries and dining, the three things draining your wallet right now. 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That's an extra 25 cents back for every gallon on your first tank of gas using promo code Bryce. Well, here, listen, I really like you and I respect you. And I think you're a smart guy and I respect your beliefs. I'll tell you one, one belief that, you know, for you to say that homosexuality is wrong, I find so left field and out there. I really do. I love you because I think that there are, I really believe that and there might be an exception to the rule. There is no rule, but I believe that this is a biological, genetically, I believe that this is not a choice and they and they he or she or them or whatever the pronoun is. This is who they are and you need to respect. We need to respect who they are and and and make every human being with whatever, whoever, with whatever he or she is, whatever they believe in, whatever their gender is, whatever their sexuality is cannot be demeaned and should never be anything less than what you are. Meaning to tell someone the truth? Your truth. I don't think it's wrong for somebody to be heterosexual, homosexual. So let me, let me ask you this question because you don't believe homosexuality is a choice. If you, I believe there are people that have made choices to have a same gender sexual experience, but I believe for the most part, if somebody is homosexual, I believe you can be born and it's, it's the natural. I have so many homosexual friends that spent their entire childhood and, and growing up and even have been lost the relationship with their family. They fought it so hard to not do it. I know, I know for a fact that this is, if they could choose, if they could have at a certain point, I think they, all the people that I know have accepted it and, and live with it and live very full, fulfilled, wonderful lives who are great human beings. But I think if they had their choice, their life is harder because of it and I don't think anybody would choose a harder path. If they had the choice, do you think someone can be born attracted to their little sister can be born attracted to their little sister? They don't have a choice to be attracted to the little sister. I think that's probably a natural. So why is that unnatural and not homosexuality? You know, for the same reason, I'll tell you why I feel that because I know that I personally, before I could even explain it, I personally was attracted to girls in my class when I was a young boy. It wasn't anything when nobody was talking about, you know, you have to have a girlfriend. I mean, when I was really young, when I was like seven or eight, I just liked the girl. I thought she was pretty. I wanted to kiss the girl. I wanted to do that. And that came naturally. If somebody's your brother and sister, I don't think it's natural to be attracted to your. I do think there's something wrong with it. So you think that there could be a choice in incest, but why in incest because it's a sexuality issue? No, it's not because that's a heterosexual choice for them. No, it's not. You can't, you see, the fact that you're even labeling homosexuality and incest. Yeah. And this is the problem with our society right now. And I'm not knocking. If somebody is homosexual, I believe that they're natural. They probably are naturally homosexual. I don't think because you're a homosexual, you're in such incestuous or a pedophile. I don't know. I'm not calling homosexuals in incestual. That's not what I'm saying. I was, but that's a different thing. That's now I was taking a separate scenario because you said that you said your sister being attracted to your sister is not like being heterosexual. But well, the point I was trying to make was that, you know, and look, here's the thing. Like I would see here and say, look, I'm not hardwired that way. Like I would see here and say that about myself, like I was hardwired to be attracted to women. I just didn't, I don't have that attraction. I mean, I've never had that attraction, never had that temptation. Okay. But if we say people don't have a choice, like they don't have a choice. They're born gay or born straight or whatever, then are we going to say the same about someone that's born that's attracted to their sister? No. So if it because that then again is a, I think that that is not the person that's attracted to their sister is probably a mental health issue. The person that's attracted to a same sex gender, it's just a genetic acceptable. So the same way that you don't think incest is natural, which I don't believe it's natural either. I think homosexuality isn't natural. I don't agree with you. But that is because again, this stems from my biblical perspective that I believe God has an original design for mankind and I believe he designed male and female to come together under one covenant for one lifetime. So I think even separate from the Bible, physically, like why is it that AIDS is more prominent in the homosexual community than it is the heterosexual community? Why is that the case? You know, why are these things the case? Why do you think that's the case? Because they're putting things in certain places that it wasn't designed to go. And if I am a man that is sexually attracted to a man and I'm having gay intercourse with a man, there's going to be a point where I can't hold in my poop 15, 20 years from now. So even from a natural standpoint, right, like there's a natural side of it where I'm like, okay, I totally disagree with it with what you're saying with someone not being able to hold in their poop 15, 20 years from now. God, I just don't agree with the whole theory that you're, I feel like you're classifying. I believe to feel an attraction to a sibling is a mental health problem. I do not think that being attracted to same sex gender is a mental health problem. So I think that, well, okay, I didn't call homosexuality a mental health problem. But you're putting them in the same category. No, no, no. You're saying it's a sin to, it's a sin or it's, it's a sin to, yeah, but that doesn't mean I think that someone is having a mental health struggle because they're struggling. I think that people are born into sin. And I think that that sin looks different for other people, right? I wasn't born having an attraction to men, but I was born having an attraction to women and I let lust consume my life for such a long time. So I think that Christians do a poor job in addressing the homosexuality issue by making the gay community feel as lesser than moral value than heterosexual people because there's a whole lot more heterosexual sin that happens within the Christian space that's wrong than homosexual sin. Like I recognize that. I understand that. So, so why is there so much child abuse in the church? I don't know because I think it's because there's broken human beings that are sinful and flawed. And it doesn't just, you know, someone doesn't wake up one day and go, I'm going to go abuse a kid or the better example I can say is someone doesn't wake up and go, I'm going to go cheat on their wife, a pastor. They wake up, they go to the gym, they look at a woman lustfully, they feel guilty about it, but they don't say anything because they didn't do anything, they're like, I didn't do anything wrong. I just looked at someone lustfully. No one knows that I was looking at that woman that way. And they bury it in their heart and they don't address it. And then it keeps going and going. And then it unfolds one day and they're where they do something that they didn't want to do. And they wonder how they got in that scenario. And it started out by looking at a woman lustfully. That's why Jesus says, you can't, you never look at another woman lustfully. Well, I'm a human being. I'm sinful. And that's why I have to repent and bring things to the Lord and have self-control. So the days that like when I choose you, that's your tool, which is right and that works for you. So the self-control aspect, right? I'm married. I'm a tractor to my wife. I love my wife. So I use self-control as a tool to not look at women in certain things in the same way if I believe. Well, I can look at women and think this is like that she looks incredibly hot and I could look at and have even seen people have shown me, I've seen porn, you know, I've seen. Wait, why are you grinning? Because it's good. But the point is, I actually want to ask you about that because I saw a video clip. But you can ask me about that. Yeah. I know what you're going to ask me. But I've seen porn and everything. I've been with my wife for 48 years, married for 48 years. I have never cheated. I'm not just saying that because I'm on a podcast. There's nobody I love more, I'm a, you know, she is the best wife. I feel like we got a real solid marriage and our kids are good human beings. And I think that that's what people need to do and focus on. And whatever it takes to do that, if you need to, you know, look to the Lord, you know, to give yourself the strength or a lot of people do it because of their fear of being punished for sinful thoughts and we're human, then they could repent and whatever that takes whatever that exercises and repentment, they can do whatever they do. I do whatever I do. Go ahead. Well, yeah. So I was going to ask you about a video clip, two part question, you're married, do you watch porn in your marriage? No. But I saw a video clip of you talking about you were talking to some girl and you were talking about how you get hand jobs at massage parlor. That was a joke. That was a joke. Okay, I was going to ask you about that because if you and even in the headlines, they were going how he jokes in front of in most of the headlines. So the joke, the joke for those that didn't hear the joke, the joke was I said I went and got those. Yeah. And after three years of going to the same woman, I said to her, when you're finished, is there any way I could get a massage? And she looked at me like get the hell out of here, but the joke is and the person that I was talking to even said, well, it aren't just supposed to, isn't the first part the happy ending. And I said at my age, the happy ending is loosening up my shoulders and getting the crick out of my back. And I, and you know, people were appalled that I said that maybe in front of my daughter, who's 42 years old and an adult and those was not allowed to come and see my life stand up until she was 18 years old because I thought it was inappropriate for a young child to see and especially her father. Now I, I use language in front of her. It's in the name of comedy. I believe in free speech. I believe that I can cross a line. And with my speech, I'm a, you know, we are so respectful of each other as father and daughter and anybody. I know the time in the place, but we live in a world right now where maybe, maybe people will take a clip of this sure episode. Take out the part where I said it was a joke and said how he says it was okay to do what he was doing. And I may get in trouble again. And you know what? That's the, that's the foibles of being in this business and being on media. Yeah. I mean, they could clip me saying that even though I said I, I think that what Hillary did was wrong. They could clip that first part. But like, Bryce said that he thinks what Hillary did was okay, right? So I understand. I guess like, and, and again, I love laughing. I have a good sense of humor. We've been laughing. You make me laugh. I love being around. But what makes you like make a joke like that when it comes to your marriage and it's like, you know, because it's a joke. But like what, in, in, in my mind, I would part, me personally and this, this may be just like my, my personal conviction on, you know, joke here, whatever. I wouldn't make a joke about that because then it has to deal with my wife. So then don't. And I wouldn't. I know my wife's okay with it. If my wife said to me, that makes me uncomfortable. Then you would stop. I would never do it. And a big part of it is I talk to my wife a lot. My wife's been there from the beginning of my career. I wanted to quit my career. She's the one that made me keep going. But let me tell you something. So I think that 99.9% of humanity has zero sense of humor. And that doesn't mean they can't identify humor. They just don't have a sense of it. And the sense is to find the humor, a joke is finding the humor where there isn't humor. There's no joke unless what you're talking about is sinful, wrong or hurtful. That's where all comedy comes from. If you look at the two masks of tragedy and comedy, the smile and the frown, if you go to the circus. And you laugh with a kid and you laugh at a clown falling down, what are you laughing at? You're laughing at another failure failure. He fell. He may even hurt himself. Why are you laughing because he falls down? But he falls down. If you tell somebody a joke, if two guys walk into a bar, if they just sit and have a drink, there's no joke. If one of them is humiliated or something bad happens, then it's funny. It only has to come from why is the jokes or things that I tell that because it's inappropriate, because I know it's inappropriate. If I didn't think it was inappropriate, it's not funny. It's funny because it's inappropriate. But do you think that things can be funny without it being inappropriate? Like when you say inappropriate for you, tell me one funny thing that's funny without being inappropriate. And I'll tell you what the inappropriate in this is. Well, I guess what I was about to ask is like when you say inappropriate, are you no encompassing everything from sexual to a clown falling to or so inappropriate? If somebody makes a funny face, you're laughing at them because they look ugly. You're laughing at them because they look ugly. So you use it as a blanket term because when I hear the word inappropriate, I think of just like sexual crude, you could have your own book of rules. I have different rules. Listen, I agree that I didn't, I know sexual and crude is something that I'm really aware of. No, I have three children, none of my grandkids have not come. They will never come and see a show until they are adult because I am not my standup and my even what I do on my podcast is not what I do on AGT deal or no deal or anything else on a responsible broadcaster. I know who the audience is. It just so happens that we now live in an age where everybody has access to everything and every kind of audience, but as a parent, I believe that we need to have more control over what our children are seeing and whether they're allowed to have a phone or be on YouTube or be, I think we have, I don't know that they could take in that information and process it if it's even healthy. Not for me to be making what people deem as an inappropriate joke in front of my 42-year-old daughter is ridiculous. Well, you know, again, it is, and what I respect about you is you hold to the fact that your truth is your truth, my truth is my truth, so you are living that. You know what I mean? I do live it. There's people that will say that and then they don't, they don't live it. I do a podcast with my daughter, this whole place that we're in is built by my son. My son's here. I have really good relationships with my kids. Their kids, the people that they're married to, my wife is my biggest supporter. I can't go a day without her knowledge and, you know, I start every morning like, what should I do and how should I do it? She gives me that. She's my strength. She's my life. You know what? We know that. And I take solace like you do in God. I take solace in what feels very godly to me is the people I love and the people who love me who are around me and know the absolute truth. They know. It only matters to me that Terry, who is my wife, knows that I would, and knows, doesn't think, knows, absolutely that I would never cheat, knows that my love is absolute. For my kids who sit beside me, even when you hear those words, know that I absolutely respect them, adore them, and know that what I'm saying is a kind of a meaningless, you know, comedy is art, everything, living is art. I believe that we're all, you're an amazing artist. You really are. You're art is your creativity and ability to spread. What I believe is goodness and giving somebody strength to even move on. So many people were at the end, at their wits end, like you were at the waffle house and they want an answer and they want a thought and they want that. But there's so many people that believe what you believe exactly the way you believe and can't articulate that and can't and don't have the charisma, the talent to present that and to engage somebody else so much so that they're willing to even change their path. So to that end, I believe it's not the same thing. My art form is comedy, that's at the base of everything it's comedy. And I believe that, you know, the pendulum swung a couple of years ago where people were getting canceled. I still get real big kickback for what you mentioned. Yeah. I think the cancel culture is so stupid. Well, it is. But especially for in America where we should have freedom of speech, I get that you could be, you know, like insulted by something or, you know, thrown, you know, you don't want your young kids to hear some of the things that I'm saying or you're offended by something offensive is okay. But by the same token, you could look at a painting and go, I would never put that in a wall in my house. I would never, I don't even, it's ugly. It would ruin my house if I put it in there. But you can't tell that painter not to paint that picture and you can't tell the painter not to use that color like you're telling me not to use a word or a reference or whatever it is. I did nothing. You know, I don't, I want everybody around me, not only me, I want to be an example for how I want you do on to others as you would have them do on to you. You know, I don't want anybody to be any less than I can be. Sure. They don't have to be more. But I don't want, and then I choose to not be around anybody that I think would do less. You talked about like, you know, your son building a studio, a relationship with the wife, family, all that stuff, comedy, or you do this, you've done deal, you know, deal or no deal. All the stuff you're doing, AGT, I've also heard you talk about that, you think about dying a lot. Yeah. I think about death. Do you still think about death? Still. I don't know if I'm going to survive this whole podcast. Yeah. Well, I mean, 70. You know, like, I mean, this is the, you don't know. You don't know. The only thing that I believe in and the only thing that I try to be the best at and the only thing that I, all my energy is toward is now. And I don't mean this in the next 10 minutes. I mean, this second, what, what do you think happens when we die in your perspective? I believe in the scientific explanation that energy cannot be destroyed. It can only change forms. And I had no belief system whatsoever until I had experiences after my father died. It's very close to him. I believe that our energy is still existing. And if you want to call the place, and I have no problem with this, if you want to call the place where the energy exists heaven, then let's call it heaven. So you go to heaven. But what does it look like? I don't know, but I believe there is an existence beyond this. And I also believe for those that believe in hell, I believe that that hell already exists in your own world, you create your own hell and in this life or in all for, for eternity. And I believe if you do, I, I cannot in, in my belief, Adolf Hitler, when he died, is that another, is that a perspective where he is aware, or the soul is aware of what he is done. And you can't be comfortable with that. And that is your own private little hell, and you want to, I, I don't know. I don't know what the answer is, but I believe that it's, this isn't all there is. Well, I was going to bring up Hitler again, because I think you and I, the theme of, you, the theme of the podcast is Hitler, and you talk to a Jew, what are you going to talk about? So, so, you know, like, I think you and I would both go, we think that dude deserves some justice. I think he's getting it. So when you said, like, I believe that, you know, there's not be created or destroyed, you would have a problem with Hitler being in the same final destination that, that, as you in the afterlife, like, you see, you're giving it a place. I believe the final destination already exists, whatever is going on in your own mind, in your head, you're, we're here, buddy. This is it. You're on your path. Nobody's in, nobody's really sharing a room with you. And he's, he, he's in hell. So he lived in hell, again, whatever makes it easier for you to and for many people to kind of describe, I, I don't have any walls or gates or entrance fees. I don't know what it is. I just believe in humanity and I believe this is such a, you know, and, and I, I maybe came to that when I had my first child that I, I, I really, instead of the things that I read about and know about and are in the Bible, I watched, created. I watched it. I watched a soul come in. This, this soul, there's a human being who seems to be even though they don't, I think when we're born, we don't speak the language. I think it's like a foreigner who just landed here and doesn't speak a word, but I think they're fully formed. I think that who you are, right? You were you and you were on this path when you were an hour old. You know, this path, this, we're destined. There is a destiny and we just got to stay within the confines of whatever this destiny and we could veer out. We have the power to veer out and we'll pay for that. And I'm like, where do we get that purpose, that destiny? Because I absolutely as a Christian, I believe that. That's where you get yours. God gives me my purpose and destiny. So, you know, obviously the biblical perspective is heaven and hell, hell is the absence of God, heaven is presence of God. Right. There's descriptions of it. Right. Little descriptions about heaven, little descriptions about hell. But hell, hell in my opinion from the Christian's perspective is a justice system and a choice where, you know, God deals with sin. If we put faith and trust in Jesus Christ, our sins are forgiven. If we reject that, we have to pay for our sin with our own life so it's justice. So Hitler, if he did not make a commitment to Christ, which I don't think he did, he would be in hell. Now it's hard to believe. Here's where I would argue with you. If an hour before he died, he made a commitment to Christ, would he be, should he and would he be forgiven? If he made a sincere heart commitment to Jesus, but faith and trust in him, he would be in hell. He would be redeemed because that is the beautiful and I understand, look, I understand I'm right there with you on how that is hard to wrap a head around. Sometimes it's hard for me to wrap my head around. I might even try and, you know, it'll be easy for me. I got no hair. I will not wrap my head around that. He is just, he is hell. Well, I have a mob. I have a mob to wrap my hands. The end earrings. So, you know, it's, but I also think it's a choice because the people that go to hell, they are actively choosing that they don't want Jesus. They, they want whatever they want. And so, I think they're thinking of chooses not that they don't want it. They're not thinking about Jesus. Well, some people aren't because they don't believe in him because their path, their path was absolutely, and a lot of people is, is absolute power. They're incredibly short-sighted in thinking this is it. This is it. So, in this moment, I need, and this is not how I think, but in this moment, I need to get, is much power, is much money, is much, I, I just got to just take over. It's all about me. Yeah. And those are the people that are willing to kill, steal, and take. That's the exact description Satan's given in the Bible. Well, again, you've given a name to whatever I'm saying the same things. We got different, it's like we're speaking, we're talking about the same thing in two different languages. But here's, I think that, you know, again, right, I believe in absolute truth. And because I believe in Jesus, I don't believe that God is trying to do mental gymnastics with humanity on who he actually is. A definitive definition of who God is, his character, scripture, all these things. I don't think he's trying to do mental gymnastics. So, well, you're doing more mental gymnastics than I am. Well, I think actually there's more mental gymnastics with you because if you just believe that energy cannot be created or destroyed, it just moves on. And there's no dedicated place that maybe hell is already described. I don't need that. In my perspective, though, if it's just created or destroyed, there's no definition. Right now, you Hitler, Mother Teresa, you know, me from your perspective, we all go into the fertilizer pit. And the fertilizer pit, while you're saying a fertilizer pit, no, we all just continue to exist. And we continue to exist in our hell. We continue to exist in our heaven. But what if for Hitler, he had a heaven? What if what he was doing was heaven? Did he come off like a happy guy to you? Well, that's the thing about deception. He showed up at his own party, screaming. He thought what he was doing is right. So, he might have been when I'm happy and a bunch of people come to see me. I don't scream at him. He might have been in his own heaven. So, how do you know that I don't think he was in another heaven? But heaven was again. He was trying to win, win, win, control, control, control, everything that he saw as demonic and wrong. He just wanted to kill and destroy. But that's his heaven and that's his truth. And that's what I'm saying is when it comes to heaven. I think joy, I think joy is pretty recognizable. And I'm not seeing any joy in any picture, any recording, any writing of Hitler. I do see joy. But what if he found joy in that? What if a murderer finds joy in murdering people? Charles Manson found joy in the crap that he was doing. You know, other-- You think he was joyful? I mean, look at the interviews he was doing. He-- I did look at all the interviews. I don't think he was a happy guy. Did you see that new documentary that they just put out? I mean, he literally first time going into jail, booked his name as AKA Jesus Christ, AKA God. He's manipulating people. He wanted his own world. Maybe deep down if he was really honest with himself, we could both recognize that guy wasn't happy. He'll tell you he wasn't happy. But there are some people in this world, the Jeffrey Dommers, the Charles Manson, those kinds of people that find legitimate joy in killing murder stuff like that. I don't think they're finding joy. And that's like absolute truth. I don't think there's joy. I think that they live in this problematic quagmire. And they try to solve it by getting starting a race war by getting-- by doing drugs, by doing self-medicating. He was not a happy guy. And he wasn't finding joy. And there wasn't a moment of joy in Charles Manson's life. There's no joy. But he didn't need-- he wasn't-- he wasn't trying to-- Well, we can recognize it. And you and I would both say, well, there's no joy. The question that I keep posing and it was all standing back to kind of like the beginning of it is every human being for the most part, for the most part, can universally agree what Hitler did was wrong. Charles Manson did was wrong, murders wrong, evil. Pretty standard. There's like a moral code that I would say most of the world has written on their heart. Even though there's language barriers, there's distance barriers, they're all made for people. Where does that come from? Because if it is your truth, is your truth and my truth, is my truth, then we can't tell Hitler if he literally says, I find joy in what I'm doing. If he said that and if he really believed that, we can't tell him that that's wrong for him finding joy. If it's his truth and-- I don't think it was chasing joy. I don't think those people are chasing joy. I think if you did a deep dive into any of those people, there is-- there is social, mental health issues. And these people were fighting and living in a dark place from the moment their existence is even recorded. And they didn't have good childhoods. They didn't have good family life. There is no happiness. So a lot of it is revenge and retaliation. If you listen to all these guys, including Hitler and Charles Manson, all they did. I have a friend that sat and smoked pot with Charles Manson. And he used to regale everybody with how this world is-- He was literally trying to start a race war. Right. But he wasn't trying to make it a happier place. This is what we need to do. They're all against us. These people weren't chasing joy or goodness. I think we can all agree what's good. And I think that they were not going for good. They were trying to combat what they thought was bad, but they weren't going for good. But how can we, right? And I think even if we take your scenario of you saying right now, your life, what you've created for yourself, your career and everything, according to your perspective, you've created your heaven. No, no, there's always more. I live in hell. I have mental health problems. I live in hell. I just want-- I know what good is. But when you-- And I want-- I want what I try for. And it kills me every day because we want what I try for. If anybody spends a moment with me, if you happen to be in the same room with me, I want you to not feel any less than if you didn't spend. And I want-- it would be great to-- more. And that's if I can lend a hand and help you. If I can make you smile and make you laugh, if I could walk away and learn something, or you learn something, or we-- It's got to be-- we've got a build. It just can't be a bad feeling. And to be honest with you, because of this chosen path that I have of being in comedian, I can't tell you the horror that I live in every single day that maybe I've offended somebody. Maybe I've heard somebody's feelings. Maybe I wasn't fair to somebody because just by virtue of what I do and how many people I come in contact with, even if they come up and they say hi and they want to take a picture, my wife goes crazy because I walk away and I go, did I walk away too fast? Did I not spend enough time with them? Or a kid came up behind me and said hi. And I think they were holding their phone, but they didn't say they wanted to take a picture. And I didn't want to say do you want to take a picture because I didn't want them to say no. I'm in turmoil 24/7. And I do that same stuff too. That's like the whole picture thing, the interactions. Like I get in my head too. So what I'm saying is, all I'm saying is I'm just trying to be good. And I just want to be good. And every time I've been around you every time I've gotten to come here because I've been here three times the last through in the last two weeks and it's amazing and you make everyone feel loved and seen and you take care of them like you you do a magnificent job. Not everybody. I don't love him. This is one of your team. Why are you pointing at the only not white person in here? There's and there's the clip. There's four people in this room and you chose my Asian videographer, Chris Kim. He was wearing a Canadian flag. I thought it was safe. Okay. He was wearing a Canadian. Who's in it? You told me you're not even Canadian. So but let's say you are creating where you from, what are you? But you said he's Asian Cambodian. Yeah. And so like you say in your in your own mind, like your food that you made me feel bad. Now see you just added more guilt on it. Well, I had to point it out. Yeah. You pointed it out. You pointed out what I pointed out. Well, why are you calling him an it? I said, I had to point it out what you did and you said, no, I pointed it out and you pointed back to him. That is a man. His name is Chris Kim. He has a soul. He's real. Sorry, Chris. Yeah. It's going to kill me. Now I'm going to lose. But you see what I'm saying? Like I think that like restaurant is a Vietnamese restaurant. If you look at your, he just said he's Cambodian. You just said Vietnamese restaurant. He is Cambodian. Is that different? I don't know. No, it's different. It's different. Is it Vietnamese food? No. It was Cambodian. Do you know where Vietnamese food comes from? Vietnam. Do you know where Cambodian food comes from? Cambodia. Can we clip this part out? You don't have to. I'm an idiot. So I'm stupid and I'll repent. But my own way. Like we're even here. But here's the thing. So I feel like I've just done something wrong, unintentionally wrong. But I feel like I need to apologize to you. Are you hurt? Were you offended? I didn't mean to offend you. See? That's my path. That's my path. So right now, but I'm just saying go into your death perspective, right? Now I'm going to die from a net positive perspective. I think you would look at me. Okay, if I die, I'm going to ask to be cremated and I want my ashes spread all over Cambodia. Great. Not Vietnam. Cambodia. We can make that clear. We can make that happen. Just know. All right. You know why we can make that happen? I don't know why. Because someone in the room with us is from Cambodia and we can make that happen. Oh. So you're assuming because he's got Cambodian ancestors that he has the power to send my ashes to his. He was born here. Where'd you born here? He goes to Cambodia all the time. Do you go to Cambodia all the time? Went there one time. I don't even know why. Again, no, he went there once and you assume that if I die, he could, that's horrible of you. Just because a guy has Cambodian parents to assume that he's traveling back or he's commuting to this job is not right. Chris, I'm sorry. Chris. Well, see, we both have to apologize to Chris. Sorry, Chris. I'm good, right? Am I good? Hmm. All right. Where are my ashes going? Where do you live in this, do you live here? What did you buy? North Hollywood. I want my ashes to be spread all over North Hollywood by a young, lovely Cambodian. I wasn't talking about you. I want you to find a lovely young Cambodian man to spread my ashes all over and why do you assume it's you? That's so sad. He's very lovely. He's a lovely man. He's very lovely. Can I just say something? I think you're coming off a little homosexual. All right. All right. All right. All right. You are crazy. But you see kind of like the rabbit hole I make him when it comes to like, oh, it's a rabbit hole. It's a rabbit hole. If I could pull a bunny out of my eyes right now, I would love to. If Hitler really believed what he did, stop it, Hitler already, we've moved to Cambodia. We have to do it. We have to do it because if what Hitler believed what he did was joyous, he didn't -- that's your words. He wasn't joyous. He was trying to make an empire. Well, that didn't do it. He wasn't being joyous. People might be using words. I don't believe. Something. Some people might. Praise energy. That's for you. A gift. Thank you. You're very welcome. Praise energy. You have your own mug. You have merch. Yeah. Merch. We have hats, shirts. We even have a mascot. Click. Click. Click. Everybody. Click. What? Isn't there a place to click on this thing? Drink praise.com is what they say. No, but on this -- this is YouTube. Am I on YouTube right now? Yeah. Really? Yeah. Am I watching? And you know what? Hey. There's someone. I'm talking to me. I'm talking to me. I am. There's someone behind you. And he looks exactly like you. Really? Yes. Oh my God. It's me. Just this. Two heads are better than one. Okay. All right. All right. You made it uncomfortable. Well, here's the difference. I was looking. I was looking up at Walter White. No, that's me. Okay. You're not pulled out. Can you pull out further? There you go. It's a mannequin of you. It's a mannequin of me with no pants on. Because it usually wears these pants, but I wanted to wear these pants for the interview. When we finish the interview, I take these pants off and I give them back to him. Is that real? Is that serious? Yes. Oh, great. I don't want an actual final question for you. The final question. You mean there's a question after when are you going to die? Yeah, there is. Okay. You've mentioned OCD a few times throughout the interview. Can you just let me in on what that's been like for you? The horror show. People always say it's become a vernacular because people will come up to you and go, "I'm a little OCD too. I like everything in order. I like a neat, I clean my stuff." OCD, obsessive compulsive disorder is a grossly undiagnosed issue that is really prevalent in our society. The best way to describe it is it's kind of like a skipping record. You can have, you know, I'll make it easy. Like if I think that there's something on my hand or I shook hand and one of your hands and it was clammy and I'm going to go wash my hands. Intellectually, I know that I can just wash my hands and then walk away. But I'll go, "I didn't get it all." And then I'll go back to the sink and I'll wash it more and then I'll go, "I didn't really get it." And I'll scald it and I'll go back and I could be stuck in that loop of trying to wash the clammyness off my hands for hours, hours. And the fight against the intellectually being intellectually aware that this is crazy and not being able to stop is hard. Or I can have incredibly dark, violent, horrific thoughts that go into my head. And you might have one of those, but then it goes through or you forget it and then it just keeps repeating. And it keeps repeating and I can't, you just want to, you need to escape. You know, or I'm forced to do something ritualistic. You know, like even if you have to tap something three times before you walk in the room, that's not mine. But if you have to do it and God forbid, you missed it. I mean, the overwhelming sensation that you're going to die because you didn't tap at three times. Along with knowing that that's ridiculous and not being able to stop that thought and convention, that's why you're obsessed with that thought. And then you have a compulsion to do something to help that thought. And as strong as I say our marriage was, my wife finally about 30 years ago was about to give up on me after 20 years of marriage and said, "We can't do this because I make everybody's life around me." Hell, that was hell and because it made them wash, I cordoned off pieces of the house so that I wouldn't, if somebody coughed, I wouldn't be in the air flow. So she finally made me go to a therapist and a psychiatrist and I got diagnosed and lo and behold. I still have it, but I have incredibly good coping skills. So I can be out in public and I can function and be productive. I'm also medicated and that also helps me. COVID almost killed me because on top of whatever I was taking professionally or prescribed, I self-medicated with pot and alcohol to virtually try to make myself unconscious as much as possible. So you didn't have to like think about it. Escape? You can't escape what's going on in your own mind. Can I ask you like a maybe more personal question about like marriage. I'm actually genuinely curious and I'm asking it's like out of a respectful way. Like when it comes to your relationship, like I know you don't typically shake hands. Like do you hold hands with your wife? So what is the line for you? Like even because I was even thinking, I've been thinking about this. Well, we have three children. Yes. I've, you know, I've got a good strong libido. Okay. What were you asking? Well, just in general, like I did, I was I touch her and I touch. I'm comfortable at home and I'm comfortable around her. My fear is I could probably shake your hand now. I won't, but I'm always afraid of. of being triggered. And if I'm triggered and go into this, this, you know, there's no out of that my little hellish rabbit hole. So, but we have a very, I like to have sex with my children's mother. Is that nice to say? - Yeah, I mean, not in front of the children. - Well, yeah, obviously sex is a beautiful gift in the confines of marriage. And that's right, I just want me to call one of my kids and tell them I would prefer not to. Then I won't, then I won't. - Thank you. - I was just trying to give you another clip, but that doesn't matter. - Okay, you said that you would potentially shake my hand, but you wouldn't, 'cause you didn't want to go through the rabbit hole. Like for someone for you that makes it comfortable, is it time, is it trust, is it? - If I'm sitting in my house or me and my wife, or, you know, we're just together. - Like me, me, like a me. - I don't want to go out and hold your hand. I don't want to hold, are you asking me to hold your hand? I don't want to hold your hand. - Okay. - I don't why are you getting, you want to explore, right? - No. - You're flirting, I think you are. - No. - I think this is taking a weird turn. - I think, I just feel like you're flirting. Can I hold your hand? Would you do this? - And you know what, howie? And that's your truth. (laughing) - You're funny, guys. - But like getting to shake my hand, like would that take time, trust? Is it like a thing that was like for your wife? Like you were able to get to that point, because you were able to-- - I live with her, I know where she is. - She is, I know where she is. - Before marriage, like was it because you trusted her enough to see you in that place of if you had that trigger you would trust her? - I feel, I feel like holding my wife's hand is like holding my own hand, you know? I don't feel at that. - And we are one, we're one. - That's biblical. The two become one. - Right. - So you are closer being a Christian than you think, howie. - Okay. And I also, you know it's weird after this whole thing. - What? - I feel like I'm Cambodian. I feel like I've accepted who's the president of Cambodia. - Oh, you don't know. - I think that's crazy of you to assume that he would know because he was born in Boston. - But his parents, do you speak Cambodian? - It's called Kamae, the language over there is Kamae. - Oh, big shout, I knew you can go Kamae, you don't. - The language is Kamae. And you know-- - I know, I know, I know. You're assuming I don't know that. I was testing Chris. (laughing) - Testing him. - Hey, I want to say this again to you because I genuinely mean it. Wait, I do have one more question for you. But I do want to say this and I got one more question for you. - You don't have to tell, you know, if you just do what you do without telling me what you're going to do, that's okay, too. - I feel like this is that you got this interview from IKEA and we're building it. (laughing) - That's what I'm going to do. First, I'm going to ask a question. No, what I want to do now, let me look at the instructions. - What? - I genuinely love hanging out with you. - Come and hang out all the time, buddy. - Thank you. - I'm really a fan, I really am a fan. - Oh, thank you. - I really am. I think you're incredibly smart and inspiring and good for humanity. - Thank you. - I really do. - Okay, I ask every guest this question. Okay, on a scale of one to 10, 10 being absolutely certain. One being not certain at all. How confident are you that you would go to heaven? - Well, one. I don't believe there's a heaven. I believe there'll be something after this is broken, but I don't call it heaven. - Okay, let me rephrase the question and add an nuance to it. If the Christian perspective of heaven and hell was real, I don't have that same belief system. - If it is true. - Do I think I'm good? - What is that happening? - I'll go someplace in the middle. I'm not, I feel like I keep getting better. - Six or seven. - I think I keep getting better and better and better and I'm so far from, if I had a definition for heaven, it's like a perfection, you know, and just pure goodness. And I think I am so far from pure goodness I don't deserve to be wherever that sends me. So, but I believe that I'm a lot better than I was last week and a lot better than I was yesterday and a lot better than I am. And I hope to be better and better and better each day until this breaks. And then I don't know. I hope that's the journey continues. - Yeah, I would describe, I would say the Bible describes heaven as perfection as well. - Well, then I'm a one. 'Cause I'm nowhere, if heaven is perfection, I am nowhere near you. I just think no human is perfect. - And me and me either, no human is perfect, I agree. But as a Christian, we believe that Christians can be a 10, not out of ego, but because it's not about what we can do to get to heaven, it's about what Jesus did for us. That is the difference. Whereas like there is no amount of good that I could do to build a plan. - So I'm putting more responsibility on me than, but there's nothing wrong with putting. - You are. And like, so, and I think the most encouraging thing to me is like I've always just been a stickler for rules in general, like even before. I was a Christian, I was always a rule follower, like if someone tells me to do something, I'll do it. - I'm not. - I just peed and I left a seat up. - Is that funny? - Shame on you. Was it because you were combing your hair in the gross bathroom before you came back here? - You can't comb my hair, my pants were on. - You can't comb your hair? - Okay. - All right, I see what you did there. - Took a minute. - Yeah, it took a minute. Sorry, I'm not there. - This is not a place you want to be. - But you want to be where you are. You've got a brand new, you're in a perfect place, buddy. - Well, well, you know, like I, like we don't think that what we can do can get us to heaven. That's just not, the beauty of the Christian thing is like, I told you to come on. - I live more in the moment than you do. - Well, I live in the moment. Like this right now means more-- - No, but you're trying it, you're heading towards something. I don't even have a goal. I don't want a goal. A goal means I'm not there. My goal is this second. My goal, I don't want to think about the future. And maybe it's because I'm 70, you know? But I don't want to think about anything but this. But this, I even have like the people that work here with me. I said, don't tell me what I'm doing tomorrow. I don't even look at the schedule. You call me in the morning, you tell me what's happening and get up unless you need me to okay something like, is it okay, you know, can Bryce come in on to, I love that kid, I want to talk to him. So yes, so and then they schedule it. I don't want to know my schedule. I find that overwhelming. I don't want to know what I'm doing. I know what I'm doing a couple hours. I'm going to a result show of AGT. That's it. I don't know what I'm doing tonight. I don't know where I'm having dinner. My wife doesn't want to tell me the plans. I don't want to know anything. And I really practice now. - And like I would say for me, my eternity is secure. But I am living in the moment because my perspective is, if I believe Jesus is the truth, if I believe he is the only way, and I believe that pure joy, love, satisfaction, security, significance, meaning, purpose, desire, everything comes from him. And I look you and I respect you and I love you, but I believe that about Jesus this moment matters more to me right now, because I care about you so much that I want you to hopefully experience that with Jesus as well. And so that's where that overflow of like, the fact that you're caring about me that much, I think is gay. - The little, the little, the little, I was not excited to say that. I called God and I'm just saying. - So you know how you say that? - That's what they're saying. That's what they're saying. - Do you know, you know you're thinking that. You know you're thinking that. And I think that's natural. And I think there's no sin in that. Do you know that? But you know I'm married and I'm heterosexual. So you got no shot with me, buddy. - Do you know that doing, when you said earlier doing under others as you would want them to do to you, the love your neighbor as yourself. - Yeah. - You know what comes right before that in the Bible? - Spooning. - Love. - Love God with your whole heart. - Okay. - I love you as myself. - Okay. - Because I've experienced God's love for me. - Thank you. - It's getting uncomfortable. - Thank you for. - I love you and I love Cambodia and I love. - How are you? I made an oopsie over here. - What? - I gotta wash. - Look at the, you made an oopsie. I made an oopsie. - I made an oopsie. - I thought that's fixed. - I fixed it. - But you know you can pull it up. No, from it, angle it up. - Yeah. - Thank you. - There we go. Sorry. - I'm so sorry. - I mean, oopsie. You give all these incredibly encouraging words on how to live life and how to, how to live, you really are, you're brilliant. And you encourage people and then the microphone goes a little haywire and you go, "I'm an oopsie." - Kind of takes a lot of that away. (both laughing) - I wanted to do something for you to close. - You've been closing for the last 10 minutes. - Well, that's what every pastor does. They tell you that they're almost done and they're going on for 45 minutes. - This is the first podcast I've ever had to take a pee break on. - Never. - Never. - I'm not gonna lie. I've had to pee so bad for the last 45 minutes. - Don't tell me you did though, 'cause that's, I like that chair. - You do? - I might let a little slip. - Oh. - Can I ask you this question? - That's a question. - This is a leading. - Just do it. Don't tell me what you're gonna do. I don't wanna hear anymore about what you're gonna surprise me. I'm the guy that lives in the now and every question you ask is telling me what you're gonna do later. - Has anyone ever asked to pray for you? - No, really. - Ask to pray. for me. Yeah. People tell me they paid for me, but no one's ever asked to pray for you in the moment. Personally asked me to my face. You're about to, right? Yeah. How did I know? How did I know? You might be a prophet. I could also be a liability. I think you're that. I think you are a liability. You're a liability. Can I pray for you? Go ahead. That's okay. I would love it. I love it. I'm honored. Thank you. Yeah. Jesus, thank you so much for today. God, thank you for how he and thank you for his life and thank you for who he is. Thank you that he's just, yeah, God, I just love him so much. Would you bless him? Would you keep him? Lord, would you reveal yourself to him? Jesus, I pray that you reveal to him that you are the truth because I believe that you're the truth. And I think that everything that that how he talks about purpose, meaning, desire, everything comes from you. God, I want him to experience that. So Lord, if that means sending Godly men his way and revealing yourself to him in dreams of whatever it may be, would you do that? Lord, I love you. We love you. Bless you in Jesus' name. Amen. Thank you.