How Your Perception is Destroying Your Motivation

Hey chat, welcome to the Healthy Gamer GG podcast. I'm Dr. Olo Kanoja, but you can call me Dr. K. I'm a psychiatrist gamer and co-founder of Healthy Gamer. On this podcast, we explore mental health and life in the digital age, breaking down big ideas to help you better understand yourself and the world around you. So let's dive right in. So I don't know if y'all have noticed, but we seem to have given up on motivation. Nowadays, everyone is into discipline because you can't rely on motivation, right? Like motivation comes and goes, but if you're disciplined, you're going to do something every day. It's not just discipline. We've also fallen in love with habits because when we are mentally checked out, we want the autopilot programming in our body to move us in the direction that we want to go. And my favorite new version of giving up on motivation is broicism. We want to be stoic. We want to be impervious to the internal tides of emotion and motivation. And if we can sort of build these three things, discipline, habit and being a really good stoic, then we don't need motivation. But this is the problem is that if you sort of look at it biologically, neuroscientifically, the most powerful way to engage in a behavior is to be motivated towards it. And the reason we've given up on motivation is because we don't know how to turn it on, right? We can't seem to cultivate it in the right way. And the reason we don't know how to do that is because we don't even understand what motivation is. We don't understand where it comes from. Motivation has its roots in perception. But the one thing that I never hear anyone talking about is how to level up or craft your perception in the right way. Now, if y'all are thinking, hold on a second, motivation is not perception. These are two different things. Perception is what I perceive and motivation is what happens within me. But let me give y'all a couple of very simple examples. The first is that everyone is struggling to cut down on their technology usage. We're spending too much time on iPads, on computers, on cell phones. Maybe that's where you're watching this. And there's one really simple trick that you can do to reduce the average cell phone use every day by 37 minutes. Really simple thing is to change your phone to grayscale. So let's think about that for a second, right? All I'm doing is changing my perceptual input and this reduces my cell phone usage automatically with no effort, no discipline, no habits necessary, don't need to be a stoic at all. If I simply change my phone to grayscale, I'll reduce my average cell phone use by 37 minutes. For some people, their cell phone usage drops by even 30 to 50% on the upper end. All we're doing is changing a perception and then our natural inclination to use the cell phone goes down. And there's even a better example. So I don't know what middle school or high school was like for y'all, but for me, there was a lot of like people having crushes on other people. So let's say you've got a crush on someone in middle school. So what determines whether you ask your crush out? What determines your motivation to ask them out? I like this person. The desires there, the nucleus accumbens wants this. My emotional centers are attracted to this person, right? So these parts of the brain are active. I want to be in a relationship with this person. But am I motivated to pursue that relationship? Absolutely not. I am terrified to pursue that relationship until I ask my friend, "Hey, can you go ask this girl's friend if she's interested in me? Can you go find out? Does she like me too? Is she crushing on me too?" And even though your desire for this person remains constant over time, the moment that you get the information that this person likes me to, suddenly it becomes way easier to ask them out. What we perceive about how this person will respond to us determines our motivation to ask them out. So I want you all to just sit on this for a second, okay? So in this scenario, the desire is there. The desire's always been there. But what triggers a motivation of never asking them out or asking them out is your perception of how they feel about you. So we see two really interesting examples of how perception leads to an increase or decrease in motivation. Now the problem with these two examples is that we don't have very simple things that we can do for the other motivational areas of our life, right? There isn't just some simple setting you can change when you wake up in the morning that will reduce your, I don't know, your motivation to spend time on your computer. We can't just grayscale our whole life and we may not even want to. So then the question becomes, how do we understand, so even if it's true in these two cases, what is the general principle, is there a general principle that we can apply to basically any dimension of our life? And the answer is there is absolutely a principle like that and we're going to teach it to you. When people hear about our coaching program, their first response is usually, why would I work with another human being when I can watch YouTube videos all on my own? Working with a coach is about amplifying your time and effort. We're great at wanting things and even making some progress, but we usually struggle with follow through or have some kind of setback. And that's exactly where working with a coach can help. Coaches provide personalized support to help you set appropriate goals, make progress, and even work through setbacks. Just let us know what your goals are, what kind of support you're looking for, and we'll match you with the best coach for your unique needs. Check out the link in the description below to see if coaching is right for you. Let's start by understanding a little bit about how the motivational circuitry in the brain works. So over here, we have our nucleus accumbens. This is our center for dopamine and dopamine gives us three things. It gives us pleasure. It gives us cravings and it gives us behavioral reinforcement. So a lot of times when we think about motivation and even neuroscientists will sort of say this, they'll say that our motivation comes from our nucleus accumbens. It comes from the part of us that like literally like craving is a motivation, right? But it's actually a little bit more complicated than that. We also know that over here, we have our amygdala and our limbic system. And these are the emotional centers of the brain. And if we sort of think about powerful motivators, emotions are incredibly powerful motivators. When someone makes me feel ashamed about myself, my motivation to spend time with them drops incredibly drastically, right? If I feel angry at someone, I'm highly motivated to do something about it. So we can see that motivation comes from here and motivation comes from here. And then the other place that maybe motivation comes from is if we look at the higher order centers of our brain, our frontal lobes, our cortices, this is where a lot of like planning and calculation come from, right? So like if we calculate that things are have a high likelihood of success, then we are more likely to be motivated to do them. So you may look at this and you may say, Oh, well, Dr. K, this is simple. This is why motivation is so complicated because motivation comes from here, it comes from here and it comes from here. So sometimes what happens, you may notice is that there's a conflict between these areas. Emotionally, I feel like doing one thing. I feel ashamed of myself, but I'm craving something else. Intellectually, I may calculate or analyze that it is a good idea for me to study today, but I'm craving something else. And this is why we've given up on motivation, because all of these circuits of the brain are fighting with each other. Well, it turns out that there's one part of the brain called the thalamus, which feeds and controls all three of these other parts of the brain. This is the master control circuit. And there are even studies that show that the thalamus is the seat of consciousness within the brain. So if we sort of think about where are human beings conscious, where does consciousness arise? There's like a really interesting, you know, paper that suggests that it comes from the thalamus. This may sound kind of weird because you're saying, okay, Dr. K, so this thalamus, like this, the sensory circuit of my brain is sort of the, the source of my motivation. Like how does that work? So now what we're going to do is go through, let's say a couple of very, very common productivity hacks, methods to increase your productivity. And what we're going to do is see how perception factors into these things that people do. So the first thing that we're going to talk about is mindset. So Carol Dweck did this awesome research about 15, 20 years ago on mindset, and she sort of discovered that there are two kinds of people. Some people have something called a performance mindset, and other people have something called a growth mindset. So performance mindset oriented people try to achieve a particular thing. So their focus is on getting straight A's, getting good grades. They're focused on a particular outcome. And people who are growth mindset oriented are not interested in getting A's or what's more important to them is learning the material. I'm here to learn and to grow and to improve, not to achieve. So the really interesting thing about mindset is that, you know, if two people with these different mindsets are faced with the same situation, let's say I studied really hard to get an A on a test, and I end up getting a B, the way that these two people respond to the same reality is different. Someone who has a performance mindset, if they study really hard and they get a B, they will feel really disappointed in themselves. They will feel like, Oh my God, I did all of this work and I have nothing to show for it. When they have a setback in life, they're more likely to give up than to double down and increase their effort. On the flip side, people who have a growth mindset, when they end up getting a B, they approach the situation, they say, hold on a second, I thought I was going to get an A. I thought I learned this stuff really well, but it turns out I didn't. So I need to study twice as hard. There's something that I'm missing here. There's something that I'm not quite learning. I need to improve my learning. So even though the actual situation is the same between these two people, the way that they perceive the situation determines whether they try twice as hard or give up. The second thing that we're going to talk about is something like the Pomodoro technique or something that involves chunking up big tasks. So there's a great, you know, there's a ton of evidence that if you have a very large task, if I have like, you know, if I have to, let's say, write a thesis, breaking the large chat task into chunks is very, very effective at motivating me to complete the task. So let's understand why this works. So let's say I'm working on a thesis that requires a thousand hours of effort. So if I work 40 hours a week for like 25 weeks, that's oftentimes how long a thesis takes, maybe even longer, right? So I have a thousand hours of effort that I need to put into this thesis, maybe even way more than that. Now, I want y'all to think about from the brain's perspective, when I have a thousand hours of work to do and I complete one hour, I've invested all of this effort, right? So I've worked really hard for one hour, let's say I've worked really hard for 10 hours, I spent the whole day, I've been grinding all day. And when my brain looks at this, how much progress have we, we made almost nothing, right? We're maybe 1% of the way there, not even 1% of the way there. So your brain feels the exhaustion from a 10 hour day. And it sees the lack of progress you've made. It looks at this one day and you have to ask yourself, am I doing this? Do I have to do this a thousand more times? How many times do I have to do this? I'm so exhausted. And we see this all the time. I see all these posts on the internet about people being exhausted and burnt out. What do you mean? Life is supposed to be, I'm supposed to go to work, I'm supposed to commute for 40 years, I'm supposed to be in this grind and then I get to have fun. You guys notice the similarity between these two situations? If you are burnt out about life, if you are looking at life and you're saying I'm exhausted, I don't have the energy to do this for another 10 years, 15 years, I just can't date anymore. I've spent so much time and energy trying to do this thing and I'm nowhere near the goal. And then you feel like giving up. So instead of thinking about writing your thesis, set a goal for the day. So today I'm going to do, I have to get through three chapters of stuff and I want to write three pages of notes that will eventually go into my thesis. So I'm chunking up the task. So instead of doing a thousand hours of work, at the end of the day, I need to do six hours of work. And if I complete those six hours of work, then I feel like I've accomplished something and it's like good job. I did what I was supposed to do today. I can do it again tomorrow. So I want you all to really appreciate this for a second. Okay. What are we actually changing? So when we sort of chunk things up into six hour increments, let's say if we were writing a thesis, you can get to 100% of your goal. So your brain looks at this and says, this is the amount of work that I have to do. And I completed all of it. I am done. I can take the rest of the day off. Oh my God, I had such a productive morning. I started hitting the books at 8am. It's 2pm. I skipped lunch, but I'm finished. I did everything. Awesome. I can go. I can go to the gym and I can play video games for the rest of the day. I'm going to hit it up tomorrow. So in both of these situations, the literal situation is exactly the same. In both of these situations, arguably the same amount of work has been done. Right? We said six hours, 10 hours, whatever. The situation is the same. But in these two situations, the way that our brain responds to it, the change in our motivation is drastically different. And what's the common element between these two things? The way that we perceive it. Now the third area that I'm going to talk about, this is one of my favorites, is ego. So here on the channel, we talk a lot about ego. So what is ego? Technically, what is it? It is your perception of yourself. Right? So if I'm egotistical, I think I am the greatest person on the planet. There's even something called in Sanskrit, the negative ahamkar, which is a really powerful perception of self, but in the negative direction. So I'm the biggest loser on the planet. I'm worthless. I'm an incel. Call it whatever you want. In both of these cases, when you have someone who's really narcissistic or really insecure, if you gauge, I don't know if this makes sense, if you quantify how powerful and how rigid their perception of themselves is, you will see a very, very high perception of the self. You'll see like, okay, I am this. I'm definitely this. I'm the best thing on the planet. I'm the worst thing on the planet. Do you guys see how both of those things are kind of the same in terms of your perception of the ego is very rigid? Okay. And then some of y'all may be saying, but hold on a second, Dr. K, I have no idea who I am. I don't even know who I am. That's not correct. You have an ego of being someone who is clueless about who you are. I don't know. Everyone else in the world knows who I am. I'm the one person. I'm 100% sure that I don't know who I am. So your ego is of someone who is clueless about what they are. It is still ego. And ego is such a powerful perception, right? So it shapes all of our calculations. When we go back to the frontal lobes, that's making all of these calculations about what will work and what won't work. It factors in who we are. Now, this is why when I work with patients who have low self-worth, they make a huge mistake when they try to date because they try to date other broken people. So they perceive themselves as broken. They end up, you know, interacting with and having a positive interaction with someone who's decent, who's whole, who's a good person. And they think to themselves, this person would never want to date me. And so instead, what they do is they go hunting for people who are equally broken because if I'm broken, I can end up dating someone. This person will accept me because they're screwed up. And this is a recipe for disaster because now you're broken, they're broken, and then the likelihood of the relationship succeeding goes way down. What we know from studies of attachment theory is the healthiest thing for someone with avoidant or anxious attachment to do is to date someone with secure attachment. And someone with secure attachment doesn't think lower of you because they're securely attached. They like you for who you are. I know it's really foreign, but this is actually how it works. And this isn't the only case of this. So this was really hilarious. When I graduated from college I had a 2.5 GPA spent five and a half years doing my undergrad. And so I applied for a bunch of like entry level research positions. So I applied for over 100 entry level research positions. I got one interview because here's the crazy thing. Entry level positions are very competitive, especially when they're asking for like four years of experience and a master's degree or even a PhD. And then I applied for a job at Harvard Medical School. And I got it as a research assistant. Why did I get it? The job at Harvard Medical School with a 2.5 GPA, when I applied to jobs at like UT El Paso and didn't even get an interview, because I was the only candidate who applied. And it turns out that this perception of what we are capable of is actually what hamstrings us the most. And remember, we're not even talking about success in today's video. We're talking about motivation in today's video. How motivated is the average student with a 3.2 GPA to apply to Harvard Medical School? Very low. How motivated are they to apply to UT El Paso? Very high. So what ends up happening is we have a glut of mediocrity. We have everyone who's trying to be in this like lower middle tier because they think that that's what's going to be easy for them. So our motivation is heavily influenced by our perception of ourselves. And you may wonder like, you know, how can narcissists live like this? How can this narcissistic person hurt me so much? The reason they can hurt you so much is because they don't perceive your emotions, right? They just don't process that this is hurtful to you. They can't see it. And it 100% explains their motivation. It's not just narcissism. If we look at any mental illness, what we see is a common root for literally every mental illness is a perceptual problem in anxiety. We see an over amplification of our perception of danger. Everything is dangerous. Everything is going to go wrong in social anxiety. We see a hyper amplified perception of negative social cues. This person didn't really laugh at my joke. That means that they didn't like me. We also know that in depression, we have a very strong cognitive bias against positive emotional input. And we amplify negative input, literally the psychotherapy treatments for narcissism, mood disorders like depression, social anxiety, you know, generalized anxiety, all of these involve shaping our perceptions. So if we take a step back and we sort of say, okay, Dr. K, that's fine. So you're saying that perception leads to motivation fair enough. The question still remains. How do I fix my perception? Right? So we understand that, okay, if I want to get physically stronger, I should lift weights. If I want to improve my focus or my attention, I should meditate more. But how do I literally level up my perception? And this is where we turn to yoga because there's a beautiful technique that they understand in yoga and they understand the nature of the mind in a way that in the West, we sort of don't understand it in the same way. So in the West, we understand that there's cognitive bias and we understand that there are certain methods that you can do to reduce cognitive bias, but those usually involve working with a therapist. So in the West, our model involves another human being doing something to you to fix your perception. So if you're struggling with a mental illness by all means, go see a therapist. The problem is that the methodologies that we develop using the scientific method in sort of Western psychology are designed to be done by a psychiatrist to you. The question is, what can you do on your own? And this is where yoga comes in because yogis didn't work with a therapist, right? The whole point of yogis is that they're going to sit by themselves and DIY it. You actually don't need someone else. And the main thing that they discovered is something called glishta. So glishta means coloring. Okay. So what they sort of noticed is that anytime we exist in the world, there's the real input, right? There's the direct observation of reality. And then what the human mind does is adds color to it. It adds something additional. It creates some kind of association to the reality of the input. And the more that we can remove the glishta, the more that we can remove the coloring that we add to the equation, the better perceivers of reality we will become. And the better perceivers of reality we become, the more naturally our motivation will flow in the right direction. So let's go through a couple of examples. Okay. So let's say that I text a friend and then they don't text me back. What is the reality of the situation? The reality of the situation is that it's been four hours and someone hasn't texted me back. That's it. There is an absence of a text that is all there is. Now, is that how people respond to it? Not at all. This means something, right? There's this whole system of texting theory now where instead of looking at the actual words, we are sort of adapting, we're infusing all kinds of meaning. So if someone doesn't text me back, that means they don't like me. If someone doesn't text me back, that means they don't respect me. If someone doesn't text me back, that means they don't value me. They're disrespecting me. People will attach all kinds of meanings to benign things. This means this person thinks they're better than I am. Well, maybe the person just forgot their phone at home. Maybe the person loaned their phone. Maybe the phone is dead. There are all kinds of reasons why someone could not text you back. That's not what our mind does. Our mind jumps to associations with reality, right? That's what we really perceive. So why does the mind do that? It's because in many scenarios, it actually helps us quite a bit for the purpose of survival. We don't have 100% of the information all the time. So sometimes what our brains have to do is infer. They have to read between the lines. The problem is that when it comes to the modern day and the perceptual inputs that we get, they are so unnatural that they cripple our motivation. And if you're someone who has big dreams but doesn't know how to motivate yourself towards them, you must focus on perception. Another really common thing that I deal with all the time is things like performance reviews in jobs. So when your boss comes in and says you're doing a great job, the performance review last 30 minutes, they spend the first 10 minutes talking about three things that you're doing great and they spend the last 20 minutes, the second half more than half the performance review, talking about this one thing that you're doing very poorly. Now when someone walks out of that performance review and they come into my office and I ask them, hey, how are you doing today? They say, I'm doing terrible. I'm about to get fired. My performance review was terrible. And I said, okay, so tell me about it. And then we tunnel down into it and then we realize that this person is interpreting this as I'm doing a terrible job because I got all those negative feedback for 20 minutes. My boss told me I did this wrong, this wrong, this wrong, this wrong, this wrong. They're about to fire me. And what they don't realize is that the boss in the first 10 minutes, they said, hey, you're doing a great job. You're doing these three things great. And the reason that I'm spending 20 minutes focusing on your weakness is because I think you're an awesome employee. I think you really have the potential to reach the next level. I think you are doing such a great job. I want to help you fix this one thing that you're doing poorly because you're doing great and everything else, but that's not how we see it. Okay, fine, Dr. K, you're saying that we have perceptual problems. And I want you all to think for a second about how that person's motivation would be different, right? So if you actually saw what your boss was trying to do, how would that motivate you? And if you think that your boss is trying to get you fired, how would that motivate you? The motivation towards your job changes so quickly, depending on your perception. So now the question becomes, how do we remove Glishta? Okay, so the way we remove Glishta, it's really, really simple. And this is where a lot of people get kind of caught up. Okay, the way we remove Glishta is to literally, literally notice what the reality is and notice what the Glishta is. For any situation in your life, what is the reality of the situation, and what is the associations that your mind creates? Literally, that is it. So you can take any situation that you're in right now, and you can ask yourself, what is the reality? So column number one, what is the reality of the situation? What is the implication? What is the association? What is the meaning? Now, this is where a lot of people get tripped up, because what they'll do is they'll start arguing logically for why their meaning is correct. Okay, so here is the reality, here is the association. So the reality is this thing happened. And the association is this means this, this and this. And then they'll start doing logic over here for why this is true, justifying their beliefs. You'll get that. So it's really natural. So if you like, argue with an incel or anyone else, like a narcissist, it doesn't matter. If you argue with them about what associations they have, what the mind automatically does is tries to justify the association, starts to logic out. Yeah, Dr. K, you're saying this, but this doesn't apply to me. All of this stuff about perception and motivation may work for other people, but it doesn't work for me. And here all of the reasons Dr. K, while you're wrong, you're wrong, you're wrong. Oh, so interesting. So you're such a special snowflake that this this thalamus and nucleus accumbens and frontal lobes and all this stuff, Pomodoro technique, chunking tasks, growth mindset and performance mindset, it applies to everybody else, but it doesn't apply to you. Oh my goodness, you're such a special person. You're so unique with such unique circumstances. Oh my God, I must be wrong. All of this is missing the point. This is why no one levels up perception, because perception is not about over here. Perception is about over here. You'll understand the difference. I don't care whether the associations are correct or not correct. That's not where motivation truly comes from. Motivation comes from being able to separate out, from the reality of the situation. And the reason that everyone in the world is stuck today is because they're operating over here. Liberals believe this, this and this. Here's their logic. And conservatives believe this, this and this. And here's their logic. Everyone is operating within this box. This is not how you perceive the world correctly. This is how you justify your associations. But leveling up perception is not about justifying your associations. It is literally about leveling up your perceptual capability. Are you capable of seeing the world as it really is? And the way to do that is simply to notice what is the reality of the situation? What does my mind add to the equation? The more that you do this exercise, the more your perception will improve. And the more that your perception improves, the more easy it will be to be motivated in the right direction. Now, why do I say right direction? Because then your motivation is responding to the reality of the situation. The problem with most people's lives is that their motivation is directed towards their projection of the world, right? All the conservatives hate the liberals, all the liberals hate the conservatives because all of them are living in their own projection of the world. Even if we look at things like relationships where if you, if you have very low self-worth, if you have a strong ego that says that you're a pathetic person, you are not living based on reality. You are living based on the projections of your mind. And the projections that your mind creates are going to be modifications of reality. So you can't motivate yourself in the right direction. Very practically what I found, so I'm not a disciplined person. I don't have great habits. I don't need them. Right? So what I did was go to India, learn some of these yoga concepts, and it has helped me immensely. I try to respond to the world as cleanly as possible. And so a lot of things that people struggle with, I'm not saying that, you know, I'm better than anyone else. I think the whole point of this video is that if you learn this technique, you can do this too. But I'll give you all one last example. So when I was in medical school, there was a surgeon who got mad at me. And generally speaking, surgeons can be assholes, right? So surgery is a very high intensity profession. Medical students get pimped all the time in the OR, which means they get asked all kinds of questions. And so when other, like, there was a particular surgeon that, you know, when they, when students would scrub in on a case with them, like 30% of students would come out crying because the surgeon was so mean to them. And the surgeon would just ask one question over and over and over again. If you didn't know the answer, they just kept asking you the question for like a 90 minute case. Okay. That's what they would do. They'd ask, what is a foramen or something like that? And if you get it wrong, they just ask again, like 60 seconds later, what is a foramen? What they just make you feel stupid. If you're in that situation and they ask the same question over and over and over again, what is the reality of the situation? What is your, what do you perceive? You perceive, oh my God, I can't get this thing right. This person is trying to make me feel small. I feel so small. I feel so pathetic. That's not what I did. I was like, what is, this is a fucking waste of time. That's my response to it, right? So if this person's job is to instruct me, are they doing a good job? Like, I don't know. Maybe this is a way for me to learn. Like, I have no idea. Like on the one hand, I thought it was a terrible way to teach, right? Because if like, if I don't know the answer, the first literally 60 times you ask me the question, I don't know if I'm going to figure it out on the 61st answer. And so part of it was like, maybe they're teaching because as I get it wrong, time number 30, time number 40, time number 50, like maybe the way that I'm thinking about it, they're training me to think in a critical way or something like that. I have no idea what the reality that like, I don't know what was actually going on. I just knew that this person is asking me the same question over and over and over again. Is it good? Is it bad? I have no clue. So when I walked out of the, the OR, did I get the question wrong like 90 times? Absolutely. Did I feel bad about it? Well, I'm certainly going to go home and study it. And if this person's, if the surgeon's goal was to get me to study this one thing, I personally would have said, Hey, make sure you go home and read the definition of a foramen. That's what I would have done. Is it right? Is it wrong? I don't care. Doesn't really matter. The key thing is that the reality of the situation is one thing. And the way that you respond to it, I walked out of that thinking this surgeon is like, not a very good teacher. That was my perception. And people were, you know, thinking to themselves, Oh my God, this person is like, I'm getting this question wrong. I'm going to fail. I'm going to fail. I'm going to fail. I'd see that 30% of my colleagues were crying after coming out of the OR. 30% of people definitely aren't failing surgery. So I was like, I thought like, I'm okay, right? So as long as I'm, I don't know the answer to this question if they want to fail me because of that, that's okay. But I don't think that's going to happen. I don't know if this kind of makes sense. But when we get caught up with our Glishta, we stop perceiving the world as it really is. And as we stop perceiving the world as it really is, our motivation doesn't respond to the world. We don't know what to do. Or we feel motivated toward to run away towards other things, because we don't know how to appropriately respond to the world. The number one reason we lack motivation is because we don't know where to put our motivation. So as you practice Glishta, as you practice seeing the world as it is, and separating out all of the crap that your mind attaches to it, motivation will naturally rise. And you don't need discipline, you don't need habits, you will just naturally that's the whole point. Motivation is a natural indication, inclination to act. And that will start to come on its own. If y'all want more info on these kinds of yoga concepts, check out our, we have a lecture on Glishta on the membership side, where we go into it in more detail. You can also check out our lecture on Vasana, which I think is really, really transformative for this kind of stuff about how to see the world. Thanks for joining us today. We're here to help you understand your mind and live a better life. If you enjoyed the conversation, be sure to subscribe. Until next time, take care of yourselves and each other.