How U.S. tariffs changed everything for Canadian artists, and Eden Robinson's new epic fantasy novel

As a kid in the early 2000s, I joined a scrappy new video site called YouTube. We were girls creating content for other girls. But with our growing success came new rules from the man in charge. There was no reason to believe that anything dangerous was going on. No reason until he was taken away in handcuffs. I'm Lauren White, and from CBC's split screen, this is There Goes My Childhood. Available now on CBC Listen or wherever you get your podcasts. This is a CBC Podcast. Okay, so for decades, it's been pretty easy for Canadian artists to sell their work to the United States. And, you know, that could be pretty lucrative given how many potential buyers there are down south. But all that changed after these 50% tariffs kicked in in the summer and impacted Canadian artists and galleries and dealers. I'm Rad Saimanple sitting in for Elamin Abdaf Mahmoud. This is Kabooshan. In a moment, we're going to check in with an artist to talk about what she's seeing in the Canadian art market. But first, Josh O'Kane is here with us. He's been writing about this for The Globe and Mail. Josh, welcome back. Hey, thanks for having me, Rad. Thanks for being here. And look, Josh, there's been, of course, so much news when it comes to terrorists. It's been very hard to keep up with. It's been very exhausting. But let's start with some context here. How significant is the U.S. market for Canadian artists? It's absolutely enormous. It's almost certainly the biggest market probably for most Canadian visual artists by far. It's just across the border. If you want to ship artwork to Europe, you've got to, like, crate it and then, like, ship it and get it across an ocean. And you've got to make sure it's taken care of. You can hire a great logistics company with a sprinter van in Canada and get it across the border much faster. So with just the sheer amount of population in the United States and the ease to ship there, historically, but not presently, you're going to find this is just a really, really important market for all visual artists. So then when did Canadian artists, like, first start bracing for themselves for, like, the possibility that they're going to be affected by these tariffs? Like, what did they do to prepare themselves? There was that whole month midsummer where Donald Trump basically said, we're going to announce this huge raft of tariffs. We've got this August 19th or August 22nd deadline. And visual arts were a part of that. And. But what we found was that people started freaking out. One of the biggest shows for artists to show their wares in the United States is the Armoury Show in New York in mid-September. And, you know, I actually spoke with a number of gallerists who, as soon as they heard those tariffs might come through by mid-August, they got their stuff as quickly as possible over the border so that they could legally make sure that art was not tariffed. So they could, you know, not just sell their wares, but also continue to build relationships in the United States by showcasing the sheer value of art. The sheer value and importance of Canadian art. Okay. And then so then what changed then when August came around? What happened was that artists, sorry, art rather, that was made in Canada became subject to a 50% tariff, much like so many other goods that are currently being affected by this trade dispute. And artists are now sort of facing much sort of heavier paperwork. They're getting questions from some of the gallerists that I've spoken with at the border as to what the origin of certain pieces of art is. What the origin of certain pieces of art might be. And it's just become significantly more difficult to get art over the border. And even if, even if a work of art isn't necessarily made in Canada, I spoke with a gallerist who had a Henry Moore sculpture. Henry Moore was British. She was afraid to send that over the border to be viewed by prominent collectors in New York because there's fear of like, you know, what if the customs agent that I'm dealing with doesn't actually understand how these rules of the country of origin work? Right. And so what we're seeing is for a lot of artists and people who sell art is a completely stalling market. Wow. So that's like, it's not just like the certainty of, it's actually the uncertainty that's actually impacting a lot of people. That's incredible. Well, look, I want to bring in Jennifer Laforte into this conversation. She's an artist based in Gatineau, Quebec. Jennifer, thanks for joining us. Yeah, thanks for having me. So Jennifer, I mean, can you tell us how much of your work typically sells to the United States? I mean, any given year can fluctuate. That's the art market. I'd say this year alone, 70% has gone to the States probably up until August. Up until August. Well, I mean, I understand you make abstract paintings. Is that right? Yeah, generally quite large scale. I'd say that five foot tall is about the smaller scale of the work I sell. And so help us understand the math here. So if your work is being tariffed at 50%, then what does that mean for your potential buyers in the United States? Okay, well, let's say it's a $10,000 painting, usually. As I understand it, the American buyer is not paying $10,000, they're paying $15,000. Which, you know, will likely change their mind in terms of what they're thinking to buy. The same thing goes for someone who sells very small items. Let's say for simplicity, $100. Well, $150, maybe they'll stay close to home and see what they can get for their $100 without that extra $50. Well, then, does that mean for you, like, the U.S. market is essentially off the table for now? Well, it has been. I mean, I hope it isn't long term. And speaking to a lot of other artists, it's slowed down for everyone. What Josh said about if people already had art in the United States, that can be moved. But I haven't heard of anyone having a tremendous amount of luck since August. I mean, so you and how are they? I mean, the other artists you spoke to, how are they kind of reacting or responding to the situation? Everyone's just waiting. I think we were wondering if this was really going to kick in. And I think we're all holding our breath and thinking maybe it'll fizzle out early next year. I mean, where the speculation comes from is anyone's guess. But trying to focus on doing things at home, maybe look at alternatives, like other ways of funding the studio practice, which is not inexpensive. I mean, rent is high. Everything's high. Materials cost more than they do. So everyone's trying to find a new way to shore up their income. Well, Josh, let's bring you back into this conversation, because it's been less than two months since these new tariffs have kicked in. So obviously, we don't have a concrete sense of the numbers, right? It's too soon to determine the real economic impact. But what are you hearing from people in the art world about how these tariffs, how they are taking effect? Yeah. So. Kind of building off what Jennifer just said is there's a lot of sitting and waiting. It's not just necessarily that the price itself is holding back the market for people buying art. It's that there's kind of a hope that like, oh, maybe this will just be another one of those 30 or 60 day things. And we're going to go another back and forth. Because there was a squabble between the two countries last spring in roughly around March 2025 about tariffing art. And then it was briefly imposed and then it went away. And people are kind of hoping like. Oh, I really, really hope that, you know, I can be able to sell my art. So I'll just hold off and wait and then get things ready to ship when these go away. But we haven't seen these tariffs go away. And there are some pretty big implications to that, right? Like, you know, I brought up the Armory Show in New York, which happened in mid-September. There are some galleries that managed to get their wares there across the border very quickly. But if you look at December, there's, you know, it's a massive month for art in Miami. The Art Miami Festival alone is going to bring in a lot of Canadian galleries, at least historically. But the gallerists that I spoke with who want to be able to sell the work of their artists and to build audiences for their artists, for Canadian art in the United States are kind of wondering. They're like, OK, at what? Like, it's kind of like a game of chicken with the tariffs. It's like, how long can I wait before I actually just figure out if I need to reduce the amount or if I'm going to go at all or if I'm just going to swallow these costs so that I could just, you know, perhaps continue to build a relationship with these buyers? It's these are none of these are easy questions. It's a completely wacky world out there. Oh, my God. Oh, my gosh. Well, then, Jennifer, I mean, you know, if the if the American market isn't viable in the way that Josh is painting at the moment and there's this waiting game, like what are you seeing as the alternatives for a Canadian artist? I think there's going to be more people applying for the very few grants that do exist. I mean, as a young artist, I hate to say this, but about 25 years ago, the grant amounts were pretty much the exact same as they are right now. So there's going to be more people that can't make it. There's going to be more people that can't make an income from selling their art that might lean on those grants. I might be one of them. I haven't applied for a grant in many years, haven't had to. I hope I don't have to. So that's one issue. Otherwise, I mean, the job market's the same for everyone. You don't want to have to have a bunch of side gigs, as you might think, you know, and then not have enough time for studio practice. I mean, it's just a huge investment to have a studio. It's a lot of time commitment. And if the work goes nowhere. It's a it's pretty crushing, to be quite honest. Are you are you seeing any signs that maybe like Canadian collectors are more interested now in Canadian art? I mean, I think there's this pride of, you know, wanting to support all Canadian businesses right now. But art finds itself quite often in like that other category, the luxury item, the extra item. And again, if we're talking about things that are in the multi thousands, tens of thousands. These are not, you know, purchases that people generally make on a whim. And you don't change a culture and have people spontaneously spending $10,000, $20,000, $30,000 in Canada just because tariffs kicked in. I think that's an education question. I think that's a time of investment question. So I don't think it'll change tomorrow. But hopefully people will be encouraged to spend more money and support Canadian artists at all price brackets. Well, I mean, Josh, I'm going to throw the same kind of question to you, right? Like, I mean, Jennifer just pointed out there this kind of the duality between, yes, elbows up, but then the state of the economy. Do you think artists and gallerists and dealers can convert in this economy like that elbows up sentiment into sales for Canadian artists? I mean, you can hope that, but I think it might actually require a bit of a mental shift of, you know, like, are we going to start acting from a market perspective like these tariffs are here to stay? Or are people in the market going to continue to just be? Really, really cautious. But you are seeing some moves in Canada to encourage Canadian art in the purchase of Canadian art. Like, as an example, Art Toronto, a major fair, it's going to be at the Metro Convention Center here later this month in late October. You know, they're going to actually have like special, I believe it's either seminars or booths for people who are trying to get into collecting Canadian art. Like, hey, now is this, you know, particularly good moment. It's like there's going to be, you know, artists who really want to sell their wares. If you like art, like, come take a look at these folks. We'll help you learn how to collect. So there are people who are trying to make that kind of effort throughout Canada. And, you know, perhaps it could, it's too early to say whether that might help the market in the longer term or whether it might help us pass this blip. But there are people who are really actively trying to work to support the market. What about the people who, like, buy art as investments? Like, is now kind of a time to invest in Canadian art with the, you know, with this, without the competition from American buyers? I mean, I don't know if artists would necessarily like to hear the following sentence, but it would mean effectively with less demand that you're going to actually see a depressed price point. Now, what that means is that these are artists trying to sell their wares, so they might actually get less money with a depressed market. What you ultimately want is for a fair value for your creative work, while also providing a sense of, you know, pleasure for the investor or purchaser. And hopefully we can sort of reach a point where, hey, artists are actually being paid. Fairly for their wares, as opposed to having, you know, depressed price points. So that, you know, we don't want people to be churning art out like little factories. We want people to actually show their creative work. That's the whole point of art. But I don't think it would be that extreme by any means. But, you know, if from a sort of traditional supply and demand situation, like, yeah, like now is actually a great time to start buying Canadian art. Both, like, morally, if you're into the elbows up movement, but also from a price point, it could possibly diminish, you know. And not great for artists necessarily, but for buyers, possibly, yes. Well, Jennifer, I mean, as Josh acknowledged there, like, that is a very depressing silver lining in a way, right? I mean, are you seeing any kind of hope that can come from all of this? Is there a silver lining that you can foresee in any of this? Yeah, I can't help but disagree with some of the things Josh just said. That's fair. There's no way. Yeah, prices can't go down. No one can pay their rent. No one has the space to work. I don't think maybe they won't shoot up as quickly as they would have otherwise. Silver lining. I mean, maybe people will pay more attention. I like what you're saying, Josh, about the Toronto Art Fair. I think maybe people will look to investing or even participating in more of our public art spaces, our institutional art spaces, and just, you know, invest more in at least, at the very least, learning about who Canada has. We have huge artists in this country, fantastic artists. And we have artists at all tiers and always have. And it's not the United States. I will change that. It certainly does help. It helps an artist's career if they can have a wider audience. And that's an audience that's quite appealing beyond just purchasing. So maybe silver lining is the general public wanting to learn more and go out more and these initiatives, these programs to teach people more about Canadian artists. More than that, I think time will tell. Well, Jennifer, I mean, what do you hope to see that like the federal government do in this situation? Like, is there a role, let's say, in the Canada Council for the Arts to step in? Well, like I said earlier, the grants have been at the same amounts, the maximum amounts for many, many years. I understand, like, it's not an easy thing to just throw money at it and increase the amounts and increase the amount of grants that are being offered. It's a complex system. I've been on those committees and juries quite a lot. But looking at that to support artists, I mean, there are countries that have started to support minimum living wages for artists. I can't pretend to know what that would entail legislatively and on other levels. But I feel like just supporting and finding a way to make visual art and all culture just more visible and part of automatically part of the Canadian lifestyle. Like bring it back into schools, teach people that art's important. Like they could do that. That doesn't cost that much. I mean, it does. But, you know. I hear you. I hear you. Josh, I understand that, you know. There may be a potential workaround for Indigenous artists. What are you hearing on that front? Yeah. So the jury's kind of out on this. So there's this there's a treaty called the Jay Treaty of 1794 that basically allows for people from Indigenous communities on either side of the border between what was then the United States and Great Britain, but is now the United States and Canada to be able to travel across the border with their personal belongings, which would include artworks. It gets really complicated with the fact that Canada never actually signed the treaty because of the whole thing. The whole part of Canada separated, but didn't really separate from Great Britain. And it is, you know, I have talked to some artists who have worked in the United States, as an example, under the Jay Treaty. There are some people who are hoping that they might be able to carry their works across the border. But how much can a single person even take across the border to be able to at one given point to be able to do that? So there's a lot of complications. There are some people who are hoping that that will allow Indigenous artists to be able to carry their works across the border. But I haven't heard of anything successful. Or not successful quite yet. It's a bit of a speculative realm right now. Well, listen, that's all the time we have here. But listen, this has been such a difficult, of course, and tough conversation. I'm so glad you two were here to tough it out with me. Thanks for having us. Thanks, Brad. Joshua Cain is a reporter who covers business and culture for The Globe and Mail. And Jennifer Laforte is an artist based in Gatineau, Quebec. On the eve of your 30s, you will look for a man you've never known. We think that you might be our biological father. The search will take you across coasts and into the veiled landscapes of love, family, and memory. Just because you're happy doesn't mean you get to erase your whole past. I'm Sarah Quevedo, and this is Reaching Out. Literally, when should I apologize? In the past? Before I said it? An audio memoir from Fututo and KCRW. Out now, wherever you listen. I'm Rad, and I'm a play sitting in for Elamin Abdaf Mahmoud. This is Gobotion. So you might know Indigenous author Eden Robinson for the Trickster Trilogy or Monkey Beach. Well, she has a new novel out. It's an epic fantasy called The Sorceress of Sky Serpents. Dani Roulette is here to give us her take on the novel. Dani, welcome to the show. Hi, thank you so much for having me. So look, Dani, I got my copy of The Sorceress of Sky Serpents right here. I haven't dove in. So can you briefly tell us what this book is about? Yes. So The Sorceress of Sky Serpents by Eden Robinson follows a girl named Uala. And she's a young woman from the Eagle Clan who is from a very powerful family. But she initially sort of feels like she does not have the same gifts as everyone around her. But she does harbor a really special and unusual connection with creatures that other people fear. So the world has been deeply affected by sorcery and there's monsters and magic and, you know, clans and politics. And at its heart, it's a fantasy novel. But it is also a very touching coming-of-age story about Uala discovering who she is and where she fits. So, Dani, like, how are you feeling about this new novel? I'm really, really enjoying it. I think I, as much as I love the story, I love what the book represents. I think Indigenous literature so often can get placed into a very specific box. So as Indigenous writers, we're expected to, kind of, delve into trauma and history and identity or explaining ourselves to non-Indigenous readers. So I love seeing an Indigenous writer create this massive fantasy novel with monsters and magic and clan politics. And I think it's just really important that Indigenous writers and Indigenous stories get to fill every genre. Because our stories don't always have to explain Indigenous people to somebody else. Sometimes we just get to have magic and monsters. Yeah. Well, you know, speaking of. The magic and monsters thing, right? I mean, like, this is, of course, the new book from Eden Robinson. And she's described this as a sort of progression for her after writing the Trickster trilogy. I mean, Trickster had its magical elements to it. But this is new for Eden because it is a full-fledged epic fantasy. What else is she doing here that you think is new for her? I think the scale and the world-building just feel very different. Like, as you said, the Trickster trilogy definitely has supernatural elements. but it still exists in like a recognized recognizable contemporary world. And I think here Eden has had to create absolutely everything. You know, there's really detailed clan systems, political systems, family structures, creatures, and magic history, and all the relationships between these communities and the rules of the world. So it's just really expansive world building. The entire time I was reading it, I was almost, I would catch myself being shocked at how much she was able to build here. And I think that there's just a lot of elements to help people who don't usually read fantasy. That's not my usual genre, but it was really easy to get into. Well, you know, I mean, speaking of like kind of these fantasy elements, right? When people think of high fantasy, we do, of course, think of like, you know, Game of Thrones or Lord of the Rings, Willow, you know, all these like sorcerers and magical creatures, as you mentioned in this novel. But in those worlds, you know, those worlds are usually pretty white, right? And in this case, I mean, yeah. Eden Robinson, she's drawing from her own Haisla and Heltzik background, and also bringing in inspiration from indigenous cultures from across the Pacific Northwest to create this fictional world that you're talking about. So what are your thoughts in terms of that world and how she's incorporated that stuff into her fiction here? Yeah, I think you're right. Like fantasy often defaults to like a very European imagination. So we think of like castles and kings and medieval political structures. I really think indigenous readers have spent generations entering fantasy worlds that were built from somebody else's mythology. So to have Eden Robinson build this world and have language and traditional clans from her nations, and even right down to like food and the medicines that are mentioned, everything is interwoven in a way that is so natural and full of love. And I think that here, the indigenous worldview isn't just foundational. It's just absolutely needed and it just breathes such life into the book. And in the book, kinship matters, clans matter, relationship to the land and animals matter. And I think I just really love that the indigenous worldview doesn't feel like it was added as a template. It's just such a testament to what the novel's heart is all about. Okay. Well, with all that said, I mean, is there anything that you're not feeling about this novel? I think, as I said, like, it's not my usual genre. I love indigenous literature so much. I will read anything. I'm not huge into science fiction, but if it's indigenous authored, I'll read it. And that's kind of the same with fantasy. I do think that fantasy lovers will read this and won't have the same struggles that I did when it came to sort of maybe keeping all the names together and the places. But what Eden Robinson did, that is really great. And I think it's just a testament to the care and craft of this book is a glossary at the back with family lists and everything. So that really helps keep everything kind of flowing while you're reading. Yeah. And so I just think that even as a person who doesn't read a lot of fantasy, I think it's important to know that like indigenous cultures are expansive enough to build these worlds into. So, Dani, I just got a little bit of time left here. But I mean, look, this is the first novel in a planned trilogy. And of course, Eden Robinson had done a trilogy already with Trickster. But is there something different about how she approaches this in terms of setting the stage for a larger narrative? For sure. I think right from the first chapter, this book feels much bigger than you all as individual story. There's already political systems and fear around sorcery and conflicts between these communities that we're being introduced to throughout the novel. And a lot of questions about power. And I think book one already feels like it's teaching us, about the world and its rules. And we're just sort of on the precipice of getting thrown into a really big, amazing journey. So it also feels like, yeah, we're just on the brink of a really great trilogy. And I think that she's building towards something much bigger. And I think this trilogy at its heart is a fantasy novel that I think it's going to weave its way into a lot of indigenous reading hearts. So I'm excited. That sounds great. I can't wait to dive into this. Dani, thank you so much for walking me through it. Miigwetch for having me. Dani Roulette is an Ojibwe artist and book blogger from Dog Creek First Nation. You can find her at Thunderbird Woman Reads on Instagram. She's in Winnipeg. Eden Robinson's new book, The Sorceress of Sky Serpents is out now. And that's it for the podcast today. Remember, you can listen to any episode of Commotion at any time, wherever you get your podcast. And check us out on YouTube and Instagram. We're at Commotion CBC. I'm Rad Simon Play sitting in for Elamin Abdel Mahmoud. Elamin will be back tomorrow. So I will see you next time. For more CBC podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts.