206. How Trump Is Using China to Sabotage the Midterms

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Or is Trump trying to engineer a hate election for the midterms to energize his base ahead of November, just three short months away? Then we're going to get into reports in the second half that the FBI has been told to stop investigating alleged assaults by ICE agents, and the Trump administration's first ever use of a secret immigration court created nearly 30 years ago. What is Stephen Miller trying to do? Okay, Anthony, let's run through that speech last week. On Thursday, night, Donald Trump delivered a speech of about half an hour in the White House broadcast to the nation in which he made several unsubstantiated claims, but one of them was about China interfering in the 2020 election. He talked about shocking vulnerabilities in the U.S. voting system. He said that our elections were left vulnerable to being rigged and stolen. He said the Chinese government wanted him to lose the next election, which I guess is the midterm election because of his tariff strategy. Anthony: And he said that some of the documents that were released revealed that members of a deep state had been working actively to suppress and downplay information about the extent of China's sinister election meddling. The irony to me, Anthony, of the whole speech was that basically Trump released this huge tranche of documents that have been classified up until now, but the documents that he released… Anthony: Yeah. …actually rebut the claims he made during the course of that speech. One of the claims was that China had interfered by somehow stealing these data rolls, but actually it turns out that those voter rolls were available on commercial websites. Another of the claims that he made was that foreign interference had been working against Trump, as opposed to for Trump, which is what we know in the case of Russia. And then the irony, I felt, of the whole speech was that in one of the documents that he released, it says that adversaries could make wholly fabricated claims that they have compromised all US voting machines, and those claims could introduce public doubts about the validity of the election and undercut public confidence in the election. That comes from one of the documents, Trump released. What was he doing for half an hour from the East Room of the White House? He was doing the work of the people that America's own intelligence community in one of the documents that he declassified calls America's adversaries. So I don't know that you should really believe anything that he says in that speech. There's a couple of things going on, but the most interesting thing for me was the response from China. And I don't know if you had a chance to read that communique, but it came from their farm. He was a foreign ministry spokesperson. And he basically said, not only is it baseless, but guess what? The Americans are the ones that are stealing data, not us. But there was no evidence, there was no motive. And so it's sort of one of these things with Donald Trump where he's saying something that's nonsensical, he's saying something that's crazy, and yet he has a lot of people believing him still. And if I were on Putin's team, and Putin's under the gun, as you and I both know, because of the fight with Ukraine, but if I was on Putin's team, I'd be like, "Well, this guy is doing all of our bidding, so fantastic, crapped all over NATO when he went over there, crapped all appraised Putin while he was over there. Now he's trying to do exactly what we've been trying to do for 50 years, Gaddy, is undermining the integrity of the electoral process in America. And we would like the American people to think that their elections are fraudulent, and that they're no better than our elections here in Russia. Yeah, and you can go through, and lots of fact checkers have, point after point, the things that he claimed and the things that actually turn out to be the case. He didn't just fail to prove the election was stolen, he actually released all the paperwork proving that it wasn't stolen. I think the question, Anthony, is why? Why is he doing this? senior Democrat on the Senate Intel community said over the weekend, because he is paving the way for the midterm elections? Or is this because simply he is obsessed in a kind of sort of Cohen type way with not losing? And that one of the things we found when we did our series on Trump was one of the rules that he learned from Cohen was you never admit defeat. You never say that you lost. And it's still so painful for him psychologically to say that he lost, to admit that he lost, that he has to keep revisiting it. This is like the toothache that he has to keep coming back to that can never get fixed. Or is it as strategic as it was, I think, in 2016 when he discredited the media so that he could say if he lost, it was the media who was lying? Is it strategic? And is he trying to say, I'm laying the groundwork? Is that what he's doing, laying the groundwork? Disrupt the midterm elections. What do you think? Well, I think it's going to be hard for him to disrupt the midterm elections because people are on to him and these things are very decentralized. But I think he's going to try to get a very large group of the American people to believe that these elections are compromised and that there's no integrity in the election. And when he wins, it's accurate and voracious. 2024. Remarkably, it was fine. 2016, it was fine. So when Obama was running things and he won, the Obama people, that was voracious. When he was running things and his people were in charge, that was fraudulent. And when Joe Biden's people were in charge and he won again, that was also accurate. So this is sort of absolutely Trump mania and this is Trump world. And so. What you see before you is not true. Please pay attention to me. What I am saying to you is true. The sky is green, the grass is blue, and don't believe your lying eyes. And so that's his mode. He's always been in that mode. But, Cady, it's so bad that he's destroyed Jay Clayton, right? It's so bad that anybody that comes up for Senate confirmation that's asked who won the 2020 election, a litmus test. You know, you said something to. And I was like, Cady is so right. Jay Clayton's nomination would have been withdrawn by Donald Trump if all he did was lean into the microphone and say, fair and square, Joe Biden won that election with evidence of scant electoral fraud. If he had said that, bye-bye Jay Clayton. And so this is the situation that we're living in. And. I will say this about the Democrats. They are meek, Cady, in terms of their rebuttal and their response to this. Even our friend, Senator Coons. uh you know he said oh it's not about beijing it's about voter boxes in bucks county hey senator you got to get out there and you got to speak in a totally different way and you got to speak in a much more aggressive way about what this guy is doing same thing with mark warner but they're not and trump is going to have a very large group of americans and you put the number on a caddy i'm going to say 20 could be 25 and if i'm wrong please push back that belief that there's something wrong with our electoral process i mean i i think that's the real key here is that that quote i read from the national intelligence council reporting that this is at the heart of everything america's adversaries are trying to do whether it was russia in 2016 and russia in 2016 did try to meddle with america's society and the electoral process in order to get donald trump into office or iran which we also know has meddled north korea which we also know has tried there's actually less evidence that china has tried we know that they've got the ability to do so but they haven't done it as much as russia has done it but the thing that they would all like to do is get americans to believe that the elections are not free and fair and that's how you cause the real damage and i think you're right it's probably the diehard maga crowd somebody somewhere around 20 to 25 percent like you point out who does believe in the big lie that the 2020 election was stolen and i know that people close to trump the kind of supporters of this strategy and there are lots of republicans in the senate i mean you've had cornyn saying i don't see how we win the midterms by talking about 2020 you've had tillis talking about this you've got people in the white house who have gone to the president before he gave this speech and said listen mr president these claims are insubstantiated that you're going to put out there and we should be focusing on affordability and what's going to make people's lives better but he can't give it up and he goes out and talks about it his defenders would say ah but this rallies the base this is what gets people riled up there are enough people who believe in the big lie who believe that the deep state is trying to screw us over and they're not going to give it up who will go to the polls my reply to them is those people would have voted anyway because they are the diehards this does nothing to expand the pie right i mean that's the problem is that this doesn't help you get the people who might not show up because they're disillusioned with trump even though they voted for him last time around doesn't get the people who are still wavering i don't know how come there are very many people who swing voters in america but let's say the three percent of people who are still wavering i don't know how come there are very many people who are still wavering and could go either way it doesn't get them to come over to your side talking about this i think this is something deep in trump that he feels mortified at the idea that people think he lost and he doesn't believe he lost because roy cohen always trained him never to think he was a loser and being a loser or being weak is the worst thing you can be in donald trump's view and so he keeps going back to this because he i don't know he wants he wants to replay the record and replay the record and replay the record until people actually start believing him but i don't know that anyone came out of that speech believing what they didn't believe beforehand it's the hotel california of american politics caddy trump has checked in he's checked in six years ago and he's never leaving caddy but but let me let me ask you about she for a second are we going to have a summit caddy did this derail it i don't know that this derailed it because i mean there's a lot of uh speculation in washington this week that trump is going to come up with a fresh tariff strategy and impose more tariffs on including on china that would probably derail it but i suspect the chinese are just gonna i would think that they would let this fly if they if they want the summit if they want the summit i think the chinese uh need the summit for trade purposes and the tariffs matter much more to them than whatever trump says in a speech from the east room no question so they're they're going to ignore this and you know trump wants to be seen as a deal maker and and i think she wants the combination of tariffs stability to your point but i also think he wants the prestige of a state visit it helps him at home uh and so i think that those things will happen and just for those people that are focused on save america uh save america is not going to pass they they remember they need the magic number of 60 to make the vote filibuster proof this is the bill that donald trump wants to pass that would do things like having voter id for example for people going to vote it won't pass so it'll make it harder for some groups to vote but again but just to explain the sausage making that happens in america the republicans are trying to embed in this latest 95 billion dollar spending bill they're trying to embed and infuse some of the tenants of save america that could happen in reconciliation and so what ends up happening is the bill itself doesn't pass but there's some dna remnants of the virus of the bill that ends up in a in a spending bill and so that's the machinations of the american congress but that that to me is something i don't like just before we go to a break and you mentioned jay clayton i do who is we spoke about last week who has been having senate hearings um waiting to be see if he will be confirmed as the next head director of the city of america and he's going to be the next head director of the city of national intelligence i think that trump's speech on thursday night and the declassification of these documents and the claims that trump made actually helps jay clayton because the person who is behind that is this guy bill pulte who was in head of the housing agency but then trump brought in as acting director of national intelligence with the specific task of mining and releasing this 2020 election material and it's bill pulte who has been whispering conspiracy theories into donald trump's ear it's bill pulte who was pushing for the release of this material pushing for this speech when other people in the elect in the white house were saying we don't need to be focusing on this right now this is not helpful bill pulte is the one and trump got wind of what bill pulte was working on bill pulte had been briefing him over the last few weeks on what he had found in these documents that piqued trump's interest and trump insisted on doing this speech on thursday night and the latest speech well i think you're now going to have any senators who had had reservations about jay clayton during those hearings because jay clayton wouldn't say that biden won the 2020 election those senators will now say you know what we've got a choice between jay clayton you know being a loyalist flunky but relatively sane and competent and bill pulte who is an outright conspiracy theorist who is trying to persuade us that the chinese got the election the 2020 election stolen somehow so i suspect this is the right time to do that and i think that was a good day for jay clayton so but katie nicole wallace who's a friend of mine i worked with her on the bush campaigns i did her show last week and she said that the jay claytons are more dangerous because they know better do you believe that we have we we touched on that last week right whether it's better to have somebody who is competent um or whether it's better to have somebody who is kind of an outright conspiracy theory in other words do you want somebody who says the quiet part out loud or do you want somebody who stays silent but is loyal the argument in favor of somebody like jay clayton is listen okay he will get in there but he will and you made this argument last week anthony that he will be some form of a moderating influence i i guess the counter argument is that if you have bill pulte in that position somebody like bill pulte who's a conspiracy theorist somebody like kash patel for example it exposes this administration's lack of competence and conspiratorial bent to voters who can then make a decision about what is really going on and that the things may be bad behind the scenes but if you have somebody who comes across as kind of normal and competent and loyal then voters may kind of think okay well this is all okay i can argue that one either way yeah it's a disaster either way i i it's a disaster i just you know we didn't need russia or china to attack american elections trump did it himself for us last week on television we also know is that russia and china are aiding iran in terms of their uh their logistics during the war you know and so we also know that too so look i mean he's put us in a really tough spot uh and and he's doing he's he's got the uh the ice agents are beating the drum again caddy the ice agents are are coming into a town a neighborhood near you oh my god that sounds like an awful awful awful movie line um okay we're gonna take a quick break and come back and talk about that hi this is gary linica from goal hangers the rest is football this episode is brought to you by wise it's only when you start moving money between currencies that you really think about the exchange rate the fee and what might be hidden away in the small print whether you're living abroad paying someone overseas or just trying to manage your money across borders you want a fair exchange rate and easy transfer and no surprises along the way wise keeps things simple wise is a smart way to move the currencies you need around the globe. 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We're going behind the scenes with the cast and crew sharing stories from the set, creative insights, and a few surprises from across the galaxy. I think he's earned a little snack. Watch and listen to Star Wars The Mandalorian and Grogu official podcast, now streaming on Disney Plus or wherever you get your podcasts. And catch Star Wars The Mandalorian and Grogu, now streaming on Disney Plus. Terms apply. Welcome back to the Restless Politics U.S. with me, Anthony Scaramucci, and Caddy Kaye. So, Caddy, the FBI has been told to stop investigating ICE agents, and we are reviving something called an alien court. But I want to start with the FBI and the ICE agents, Caddy. So, the simple question is, why would the FBI stop investigating ICE agents? What's the plan afoot from the Trump administration? So, this is a report that has come out of the New York Times that has done pretty good reporting, I have to say. So, I trust, and which is why we wanted to talk about this, because they are credible. Their reporting on ICE and ICE activities has been very good up until now. And they have now got this report that FBI managers around the country will receive a written notice of the change, and that agents as well will also be informed of the change. So, anyone involved in ICE will now effectively investigate itself. ICE will be the people who are both the fox and the chicken, if you like. They're going to be judge and jury on themselves. I think what this will do, if the reporting is correct, it frees ICE up to be much more aggressive on the streets of America. And it's going to be much more aggressive on the streets of America. And and it's going to be much more aggressive on the streets of America. And And it polls horrifically for the president and for the Republican Party. So what they were doing was they had the great tragedies in Minneapolis and they regrouped and they said, okay, we're going to do the exact same thing and we're going to try to do it under the radar, but it's surfacing again. And so I think weirdly that's good news. But I hate this in a way that I can't possibly explain to people because to me, if you want to talk about the most un-American president of all the presidents, that would be Donald Trump. If you want to talk about people in his administration that are actually hurting the country, that would be Donald Trump because the country needs caddy. And I'm talking about poor and wealthy immigrants. The country needs 2 million immigrants a year to supply the labor force, to continue the intellectual capital innovation story. To grow the tax base. To grow the tax base, to help with the social security payments, all those things. And we are at a zero right now. And so, yes, if you want to be objective and say, has he done a good job on the border? I'm going to say yes to that because I think Joe Biden, that was a disaster. You can't leave the border open and have illegal immigrants coming in. But we should have legal passage of at least 2 million people coming into the country. That's not happening. And that is having a psychological effect on the country. It's having a labor effect on the country. It's having an economic effect on the country. Can I just give you a couple of numbers that I thought you would find interesting? One of the things that's been difficult, and I think you're quite right to say this story has been resurfed in the media, and that is helpful, because one of the things that's very hard in all of this is that trying to get real data on what is happening is difficult because the government. The government is not releasing it, obviously. But there was a report that came out from the ACLU, the American Civil Liberties Union. It came out just last week, and it's the first big study of data regarding ICE. It's the biggest study we've had of what ICE is doing. And let me just give you a couple of the numbers, Anthony, because I was pretty shocked by them. So the ACLU has identified numerous people, and maybe we could put the report in our newsletter or in the show notes. Show notes, too. They've identified numerous people who were detained, targeted, or subjected to law enforcement misconduct. And this is what they found. 782 protesters, journalists, elected officials, clergy, and community observers. This is the one that really shocked me. 155 American citizens have been detained and targeted. 214 children, including 32 who were American citizens. There have been 49. This is the number of incidents that they've found, and they say this is not comprehensive, of ICE agents going to schools. And there have been 361 incidents of agents using chemicals against protesters. I mean, I think their research basically is this study points to ICE activities changing the nature of American cities, of taking over American cities. And I've heard it, and I imagine you have. And I think you have, too, in the last few weeks, an uptick in fear amongst people who are in this country, whether they are here legally or illegally. But even those who are here legally, if they look Hispanic at the moment, they are feeling afraid. And you look at these numbers, it's not surprising. 214 children detained, targeted by ICE. 155 American citizens. I don't think that's the worst of the worst that they said they were going after. That doesn't sound like the worst of the worst to me. To me, that is just heartbreaking. And I know people, I know a Colombian family. The grandmother is actually a U.S. citizen. She moved back to Bogota. She said, OK, don't feel safe here. I feel threatened. Some of her friends have been detained, even though they had visas, green cards, all different types of stuff. And so, you know, again, classically un-American, there's no rebuttal to it. The Republican Party has ceded this, you know, to Trump. And the Democrats really don't know how to fight Trump. And so the only thing that's going to fight Trump is age and term limits, Caddy. But those are the two things. And by the way, he's wildly unpopular. And when this comes up in the polling, it's wildly unpopular. Yeah, this is not helping. I mean, the two things that we've spoken about on this program, the 2020 revisionism and the ICE activities, both incredibly unpopular. And the president's party is running in a midterm election, which is feeling the heat in and could well lose the House. I'm not quite sure how he thinks he's helping, but anyway. But there's more, Caddy, not to sound like an infomercial, but there is more. There is more. And I want you to talk a little bit about the Alien Terrorist Removal Court, which was set up after the great tragedy in Oklahoma City in 1996, where we had the bombing in Oklahoma City. It was actually a domestic terrorist. But tell us about this court, which is being dusted off by the Trump administration. So this is the. This is the Alien Terrorist Removal Court, the ATRC, to those of you who are getting kind of geeky about this. And it was created 30 years ago to deport alien terrorists from the United States. It's never been used, but the Trump administration, this is so classic Project 2025, they spent all of this time going through all the kind of arcane files and routes that they could use. And the Trump administration has now filed a first ever petition to this dormant court. The name of the person they want removed has been withheld. Federal law says that an individual could qualify as an alien terrorist by, among other things, having engaged in terrorist activities, espousing or endorsing terrorist activities, belonging to a political or social group that encourages terrorist activities. We don't know who this person is, but the interpretation of what the administration has done is that actually. Actually. They want yet more routes to go after people, label them as terrorists, which the administration has often done in the case of illegal immigrants, and get rid of individuals and their families. And they think this could be another weapon that they can use in kind of Stephen Miller's deportation target system. Because remember, as we said last week, the new target is 2,000 people a day to be arrested and deported from the country. So they have to use every weapon they have. And I think that's what is behind the use of the Alien Terrorist Removal Court. So we have a big decision coming up on Wednesday. And so what do you think, Addie? Do you think that the judge here is going to allow for this court to be activated? Well, so far, the judge immediately came back, Joan Erickson, who is a George W. Bush appointee, and didn't rubber stamp what the administration was trying to do. She ordered the DOJ to submit a full. Fuller legal and factual justification, as you say, by Wednesday. So I guess we have to wait and see. But I would imagine that if she's pushed back in this way, I think we have another instance of the courts blocking what the president is trying to do in terms of expanding his own powers for his political agenda. What do you think is going to happen on Wednesday? Well, I mean, I think this central question is there's been six administrations, six administrations that have basically found the current immigration proceedings to be sufficient. And so all the judge is saying, no problem, DOJ, Trump, DOJ. You have other routes. You have other methods. Exactly. So could you please explain why this case cannot go through the regular system? So she could grant it. That'll be the first public removal hearing in US history. And it will create a new deportation pipeline to open, which I think will have tragic consequences for the country. She could deny it. And then the ATRC, as it's called, goes back to its dormancy. And the administration's forum experiment will fail, prima facie, where she grants it narrowly, which is what I actually think she's going to do, in which case it constrains the future use. But on a limited basis, they'll be able to use this. And so I think she's going to create a pipeline, but it's going to be a very narrow pipeline. That's my prediction. But we'll know by Wednesday. And of course, we'll report back to everybody what happens here. But, Katty, this is such a stretch to call this terrorist activity. I mean, this is just the insanity of the Trump administration in terms of just flipping over the apple cart of normalcy, flipping over the apple cart of process, and doing exactly what you said, come hell or high water, we're going to find a way to push people out of this country. I mean, there was a certain irony in the White House dusting off a court that had been built for the 9-11 era terrorism cases, and even a Bush-appointed judge, a George W. Bush-appointed judge saying, OK, not so fast. Maybe you're right. She will rule in a narrow way that this is permissible. I don't think that's where they're going to get the numbers there. I think the numbers are going to carry on coming from the ICE activity.