How Trump 2.0 is Radicalizing Resistance Moms - with Jennifer Welch

(soft piano music) - Lemonade. - Thanks for listening to Hussam Minhaj Doesn't Know. Listen to and follow Hussam Minhaj Doesn't Know add free on Amazon Music or just ask Alexa. Alexa, play the podcast Hussam Minhaj Doesn't Know on Amazon Music. Also, with Amazon Music Unlimited, you can now listen to your favorite music, podcasts, and audio books, all in the Amazon Music app. Listen to Hussam Minhaj Doesn't Know on Amazon Music. - If you and I are standing next to each other, and we're in Oklahoma, I'm kinda gonna go, I think they might be more fearful of you because the white nationalism that's baked in to eat white Christian evangelicalism. They're still gonna think I'm really bad from Satan, the harlot, all sorts of things. - Sure, sure, sure. - But the racism, I think, might trump. - But Jennifer, I am cute. - Adorable. - That's what I'm saying. - I mean, 10 out of 10. - I think I can get through. We think of America as neatly divided into red states and blue states, but inside of those red states are a lot of blue dots. People living in deep-magic country who look around and think, "Yo, this shit is crazy." Now, Jennifer Welch is one of those people. Yeah, she looks like someone who has a show on Bravo because she did. But after the Democrats lost two elections to Donald Trump, she took the exit to Bernieville, and now she is a real housewife in the streets and a Hassan Piker in the sheet. - The Democratic Party is completely out to lunch. - No wonder we lost in 2016. No wonder we lost in 2024. Benjamin Netanyahu is a war criminal in a liar. Zoran has proven that the people can win in this country. - In her podcast, I've had it, which she co-hosts with Angie Sullivan, has become a magnet for Democrats, sick of the party establishment. - So I sat down with Jennifer to talk about her viral confrontation with Cory Booker. - I'm like, "Bitch, please, what do you mean?" You're against Pac-Manigar. - You're a little bitch? - No, I did. - Okay, I was thinking that-- - But that's what that was in your mind. - Yeah, okay. - How to turn more Americans to the left? - There are movable, changeable, good people, really good people in this country. And that's who the Democratic Party needs to target with a message of empathy. - And what's like to be a progressive in the Bible belt? - Being in Oklahoma, do you ever have this thing where you're like, "Wow, you love Jesus, but you hate Hisus?" How does this work? - I also learned a few new swear words from Jen. But if all the cursing in this episode bothers you, well, stop being a little (beep) you (beep) ♪ Hurry right away, lonely days don't seem ♪ ♪ Make your daddy pass ♪ ♪ With a mask on your face ♪ - You are a progressive atheist from Oklahoma. Did you also grow up around people that were constantly trying to convert you? - Yes, constantly. It's just, it's the story of my entire existence and Oklahoma that we're recruiting. - Wait, so how did it work for you? 'Cause for me, I would be like at a friend's house after a few months, and then they'd give me the combo about JC. (laughs) - So I remember the first time it ever happened. I knew that they were religious and I wasn't, but I didn't think that much of it in elementary school. - Okay. - And I was a cheerleader for the brink bobcats, brink junior high, go bobcats, and at a somber party. And this is when they're really getting really indoctrinated. And they said, Jennifer, have you been saved? And I was like, from white. They're like, have you accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord and personal savior? And I was like, no. And they're like, you will burn and hell. Like forever in the demons torture you and they shed your skin off. And then it grows back. And they remove it forever and it never ends. - Oh wow. - They were full Dante's inferno on you. - Full blind. Some horrified, terrified. So I race him to my mother who is an unapologetic atheist at the time she was in the closet because you'd have to be, she's 83 years old. I race him to my mother and I'm like, mom, we've got to go to church. I've got to get saved. And she's like, for God's sake, Jennifer, that is ridiculous. If you go to that church, I will ground you. - Whoa. - So I was like told not to go to church. But I went anyway. - Okay. - Because peer pressure, fear of eternal damnation, the aforementioned, you know, shedding of the skin. It didn't sound very pleasant. - Right. - So I go to this church with my friend and her mom is driving us there and they were a working class family. And her mom had this cup with all of these coins in it and then a $20 bill rolled up at the top and she said, girls fill up the tank, $5 gasoline. So I grabbed the 20. My friend, Shonda said, okay, I'll pump the gas. And Shonda's mom said, no, Jennifer, count out the quarters. The 20 is for the church. So I was like, well, that's weird. Like, why are we giving money to do the church? But what if? So I counted out the quarters, went into 7/11, paid it. We pull up to the church. It's called Crossroads Cathedral. It's this big, massive mega church. The pastor rolls up in a white Rolls Royce in a white fur coat and his wife, full-blonde Tammy Febaker, white fur coat. Go in and it is Bible thumpin, tongue-talking, Hellfire damnation. It was the scariest shit I had ever seen in my entire life and seeing how this family had struggled so much financially. And they were giving the $20 to the people who pulled up in the rolls and the fur coats. I knew instantly, like my mother's, onto something, this is a racket, total grift. And so, I mean, from time, you know, I would kind of try to fit in with my friends, but I was never indoctrinated. And my mother kind of viewed people who had deep religion, like that as kind of an intellectual weakness. She kind of, like, down on it. So it's hard to buy into it. - For me, it was like, you loved Jesus Christ. I'm like, Muslims love Jesus Christ. And they didn't like the first part of the sentence. - Oh, yeah, yeah, that's a big one. - But I was like, I'm down. I downloaded all the software. My backwards compatible. Totally down with what you're down with. And they were like, we just don't like, but I was like, look, if you circle back and you think you're cool with me, that's great. But I just want to let you know I love J.C. You really love J.C. - What do we think that a white evangelical suburban American would be scared of most? A Muslim or an atheist? - That's a good question. - I could go either way. I'm kind of, what do you think? - I'm kind of gonna go, if you and I are standing next to each other, and we're in Oklahoma. I'm kind of gonna go, I think they might be more fearful of you because the white nationalism that's baked in to eat white Christian evangelicalism. They're still gonna think I'm really bad. From Satan, the harlot, all sorts of things. - Sure, sure, sure. - Adorable. That's all I'm saying. I'm just like, look, I know your time and I'm gonna go to hell. I'm telling you, I love Jesus. I think He's gonna return. We love Him. We love Prophet Issa. We think He's so amazing. - Issa? - Issa, Issa's Arabic for Jesus. - Okay. - But, so these people that are evangelicals, how do they connect being in a evangelical Christian to this idea of Christian nationalism? So you grew up in Oklahoma. Please tell us, what is Christian nationalism? - So I think Christian nationalism is this idea that Christians have, that the United States is for God. And it's a Christian nation for these good white folk that are delivering Christianity to the United States of America. I think this group of people really don't understand that Jesus, if He did exist, and I don't know that He did or not, was a brown-skinned person in the Middle East. I don't think they quite really understand that. And I liken it to this. So I grew up in suburban Oklahoma city. - Okay. - Cookie cutter neighborhoods, very, very white. There was not a lot of culture. So people got their culture from their church. And then it just feels fucking great to be an American. We have this badass military. We've got big flags at car dealerships. And so those are the two identifiers that they have as their culture. And so they meld these two together. And Jesus has become like this supply side capitalist, mega church, prosperity gospel, and He loves America. And you see all that imagery in a maggot, you know? So to me, a lot of people always ask me, how can. - So Jesus has Toyota thought? (laughing) - I think in their minds, yeah. - Okay. - I do. - I mentioned the prosperity gospel. What is prosperity gospel? - Okay. So the prosperity gospel, as I understand it, is so my friend who gave the money to the pastor who had the role of the-- - The fur coat and the role of the spirit. - The white fur coats, the whole nine. That if you were good and you give your money to God, then God's gonna favor you. And then you will also have money. So it's like investing into, it's like a pyramid scheme, almost. I mean, it's a complete gift. Kind of like what Trump does with the Trump story. - So the idea is almost like trickle down economics through the church. - Exactly. - Got it. Understood. You are part of a larger shift of many people in America that started out classic MSNBC, still with her vote blue no matter who's in office liberal. But then you took the exit to Bernieville. What made you take that exit? - Defeat. When we lost in 2024, and I was all in on Kamala, I was, you know, let's go on brad, all of it. - Okay. - And then at the DNC, libbed out had a blast living out, right? - Uh-huh. - And then you-- - What does that mean? What does that mean? I lived out of the DNC. - What does that mean? - So I think that progressives called basic liberals, garden variety, you know, wine moms like me that watch MSNBC, that we like to live out. And so I think it's kind of, they're kind of making. but I liked it. I was fun to live out. So we lose. I'm like, "How do we lose to this guy again?" So I'm ready for the resistance. I'm like, "You know, I need to get one of those pink hats. We're going to have to march. Let's go. Let's go." And it just never came. And then I'm like, "What the fuck is going on?" They're voting for these embassels that Trump is nominating for his cabinet. Marco Rubio gets 99.0. Alyssa Slotkin from Michigan votes for Christie Nome. The wife of Big Titty Brian. I mean, that's who she votes for. So I'm just like, "What is going on? Why are they collaborating with these people?" So it was so mad that there wasn't a defined opposition. So then I'm just like, "What the fuck is going on?" So you start getting outside of your media bubble. So the podcast, my podcast, we'd already taken like a political lane. Because I've always been super political. And then when you start opening up your eyes to it, then you're just like, "God damn it. Check, Shimmer, and Hakim Jeffries are in on it." It's like a full-blown fascist collaboration. And once you see it, you can't unsee it. Jennifer, this is wild. I'm talking to you, but it feels like I'm talking to Maddie Hussin right now. Oh, thank you. I love Maddie. So I mean, obviously this moment happened at the DNC, but this is a relatively new phenomenon. So is it the rise of your podcast? Is it you being exposed to other viewpoints in the media landscape? This is a big shift, Jennifer, that I did not anticipate happening. I think it's, I really believe nobody likes to lose. And then you see the damage that this man is doing. And it takes me back to, it made me really mad at the Democratic Party that we lost. Because Joe Biden had really one big important job when he got elected. And that was who is going to be your attorney general? Who is going to prosecute the funders and the organizers of January 6th? They only got the low-level, you know, robes that went in there. That was somebody paid for that. Somebody organized this. We have now reporting that Trump spent $3 million of his own money to organize this. And the fact that we didn't handle that. And then this guy is president again. And citizens are getting shot. And the genocide has continued to be funded. And Netanyahu is going bananas. And then we, it's just, it's such an indictment on the Democratic Party. Because I expect Republicans to do this. I lived in a red state with a Republican supermajority. I know how diabolical these people are. I know they're pathological liars. I lived around it. But to see the Democrats play patty cake with these fascists. And then again, once you open up your eyes to it, it just starts, you know, really rapidly, the disgust gets really rapid. And then I had some people on the podcast like Cory Booker and I got a fight with him. Right. Rahman manual and I got in a fight with him. And it's just like, do you guys believe in anything? Are you just a little bit better version than the Republicans? And I do think there is a harm reduction component for sure. There's no question. Right. Would Kamala be better than Trump? No question about it. None whatsoever. It would be a completely different country right now. But the fundamentals that primed the soil to fall prey to fascism. That's a bipartisan effort. So it feels like you've almost woken up to a new reality of what the traditional Democratic Party establishment is. I mean, you kind of see the machinations of it with a lot of the guests that you had on the pod. They thought they were going to get a fastball interview. You clearly didn't. You chopped them up. You went to Benihana. Yeah. You did what you did. Where do we go from here, Jennifer? Much to my surprise. A lot of my friends, my longtime girlfriends in Oklahoma, that I would say are moderates. Yeah. They are like full-blown going left now. Are you serious? Are you serious? Nobody knew what APAC was a year ago. Nobody gave a fuck. And now these women that I know are like, I will not vote for a candidate that takes APAC money. And the base has moved in such a way. And of course, this is anecdotal, what I'm telling you right now. Right. But I believe the base has moved in such a way that the Democratic establishment is still in denial. They are in denial, bargaining there in the five stages agree, because of this party right now. Sure. Yeah. And so, I think that also the fact that Democrats are not fighting as hard as we all want them to, Yeah. Is exacerbating this left-word move of the electorate. But what do you think will break this POV? Because I hear it a lot from Democratic Party establishment, which is enough with the fringe issues. Enough with what my son and daughter are protesting on college campuses. Enough of the bathroom stuff. Let's get the blues in power and make it like the good old days when Barack Obama was president. And Guantanamo Bay was open. So, I think that the problem with a lot of this statement is it seems pretty disingenuous. First of all, nobody really believes somebody who identifies as liberal. And let me just say this. Yeah. We all know the difference between a liberal and a progressive and a leftist. The majority of Americans don't. The majority of Americans think that I grew up around. Think Obama was a leftist communist. Right. Okay. That's just the reality. We all fight online about who's, the majority of Americans don't know, don't care. So, the voters that the Democratic Party try to go after are the people that are never going to vote for them. Ever. So, they don't believe for a second. If a Democrat stands up and says, I'm tired of this bathroom stuff. And I'm not going to tolerate it. And this trans ideology, they're going to go bullshit, they're lying. And people don't like that. They can sniff out the condescension and the opportunistic lying to get elected. Just be who you are. And I think we need to flip the narrative. Yeah. And the science backs what I'm up what I'm about to say. We need to ask, "Maga people, why are you so obsessed with trans people?" A new study came out that shows all of these hotspots where people consume trans porn and they're all red counties. So, what's going on with that? We need to start playing offense with these people. So, what's your theory here? Why did this become such a polarizing divisive issue? Well, interestingly, Victor Orbán started all of this 16 years ago when he was elected in Hungary, all of this trans stuff. And we've always had trans people in America, but it wasn't this big of a culture war issue. This is another messaging moment for the Democrats, in my opinion. You have the MAGA Republicans, the Republican Party that are like, "We're for the founders, we're for the founding documents." You know, we are real Americans, we're heritage Americans. They fucking get all their inspiration from a very small country in Eastern Europe that elected a two-bit dictator. That's where they have their conventions and that's the model they go to. So, if I was a Democratic strategist, I would be messaging the shit out of that. I think these guys don't look to the founders. They don't look to, because that's a big thing in the United States of America. You would message more of this kind of foreign fascist. Yes. I don't even want to call it interference, but almost influence. Is that what you're saying? Why are they looking to Hungary for inspiration when we have a much longer democracy and furthermore? Why is Ron DeSantis constantly telling people not to say, "Gay, what's all about? That's weird." Distraightment, I know a lot of straight men. I don't hear them talking about gay shit that much. The people I hear talking about trans, gay shit the most, are MAGA Republicans. It's just a really interesting phenomenon. And instead of it being defensive, like, "Oh, we're going to not going to talk about the bathroom stuff anymore." Be offensive. Put them on the defense. But the Democratic Party is always playing, "Well, the thing with the trans is blah, blah, blah." Like trans athletes. How many are we talking about here? Four people? Right, right. We're talking about four people. That's what you want to have a debate about? Yeah. You know, I want to talk about this moment that you had. I mean, it was an iconic moment where you unloaded the clip on Senator Cory Booker. Look, I'm one of the handful of people that don't take corporate PAC money. I don't understand my Democratic Party. What about A-PAC money? You take A-PAC money, don't you? It's a minuscule percentage of my resources come up. Yeah, I read it's like 800,000. Yeah, but that's a lifetime number. Do you think he's a war criminal, Benjamin Netanyahu? Do you think he's a war criminal? Again, these are questions that a lot of people think are the important litmus tests that are loaded and hot. I think the thing that Democrats get so frustrated with where we are right now, where you see, like, those are on Mondani's and the grand plateners rise up. Because they can go on podcasting, you can say, do you think Benjamin Netanyahu is a war criminal? And they just say, yes. What was the goal there? Okay, so we had him on, I've had it, which I have two podcasts. I've had it, which is more like, what have you had it with? And that's a lot of fun. Yeah. And so asking what he'd had it with, he said, corporate PAC donations. And it wasn't planned at all for me to then ask him about APAC. But the minute he said that, because I'm not a part of the corporate media ecosystem, I'm just a normal person that accidentally has a podcast. So I'm like, bitch, please, what do you mean? You're against PAC money, aren't you? No, I did. I was thinking that-- But that was in your mind. Yeah, okay. Like, don't you take a lot of APAC money? Well, it's just not very much. And then I'm like, because from my vantage point in Oklahoma, when you have all these horrible MAGA politicians, Corey Booker's like a dream. - Right? You think he's like this great liberal Democrat. But then all of this stuff with the genocide I really started laser focusing on. And once again, once you see it, you cannot and see it. - There's a lot of people that have critiqued this though in the Democratic Party establishment. Jennifer, why are you doing this? Why are you sniping out your own? Shouldn't you circle up and protect them? What do you say to that critique? - I'm not in a cult. I'm simply not in a cult. Anytime you have a group of people where you say we cannot criticize, that is not a healthy environment. Those are the symptoms of a cult. That's what we criticize mega for. So we can't have it both ways. We can't say look at maggot. They never stand up to Donald Trump. They never criticize him. Little Moses Mike always falls in line. Lindsey Graham always falls in line. And then we can't criticize Cory Booker for saying, hey, I cannot stand Pac-Money also, A-PAC. Come on, Benjamin, we have to be able to call it out. - So you're basically saying, look, Jennifer Welch is here to humiliate you so that you improve. Which kind of reminds me of my dad when it comes to me in math homework. He's like, I will ridicule you in this public library until you get better at long division. And in a weird way, I did rise to the occasion. - Yeah, yeah. I think shame in the humiliation can be a very motivating factor. I want you to help me process this. Be my liver that is processing this new information that's going into my body. I've seen the big splashy pieces about you, Jennifer. And they position you as perhaps part of a larger shift to the left. And you're telling me this anecdotal evidence of many of your friends that deeply care and now have shifted further to the left. One of the things I've struggled with is I don't know in the future if empathy can be scaled within the Democratic Party, the things that you're talking about, caring about the rights of the Palestinians, caring about LGBTQ issues. All of these things require ice, require a deep sense of empathy. And when I drive past the country club or the tennis club, and I know you're an avid tennis player, can empathy infiltrate the tennis club? Okay, so I think there are a group of people that are country club Republicans. And these people travel around, they could come to dinners in New York and they're sophisticated enough to not say off-color remarks. But privately, they always go and triple trap. They're always going to go and vote Republican. These to me are far more offensive people than the rule Americans who have just been left out, abandoned by the Democratic Party. And so there is a group of people that I grew up around, we're no, you're correct. Empathy is not going to hit them. It's going. And those people are lost cause. The Democratic Party does not need to trot around with Liz Cheney, does not need to throw minorities under the bus because they're never going to vote for Democrats ever. It's going to be a great period. However, I do think there are a group of people that are moderate minded, that maybe have not been that political because they haven't had to be political because politics didn't really affect them. Their daughter's rights weren't threatened. They're maybe they recently had a great gay grandchild or their center daughter now is in a mixed race relationship and they're like, oh, wait, hold up. Do you remember Mitt Romney at the Black Lives Matter March? I remember I said that in my TikTok and I was like, what? He has a black grandson. So it changed him. So in Mitt Romney was moderate. I disagree with him almost and everything politically, but he wasn't a die hard, you know, Christian nationalist. The people who once they get ignited, that have empathy as a default setting but have never had to be political because their privilege has prevented them from, as a luxury that they don't have to be political. Those are the people that you can change. The A-political who are inherently pretty good people and these are the people that are my rich lady white friends that have always voted probably down the middle who now they're seeing the images of a genocide. They're hearing about what's happening in Lebanon and they're seeing the regime, the Trump regime shoot protesters and these people, it's very easy for me to have a conversation with them where I say, you know, that can you believe or naked got shot? And I can say, think about all of the black people in America who've been screaming. This is happening to us. This is happening in our communities, right? And these friends and I go, oh my God, you're right. I can't believe I didn't think that. There are movable, changeable, good people, really good people in this country. But there are some, you're right, that are just fucked, that are just spiteful for spite's sake. - You know, one of the things that happens a lot in regards to that is this idea of just, you know, those people leave them behind. And this was the messaging in 2016 and 2020 and 2024. As you say, Trump's core base is a cult. They go, look, we're never gonna convince those 63 million Trump voters to change ever. Then in 2020, they were like, hey, we're never gonna convince those 74 million Trump voters to change. And then in 2024, they're like, hey, we're never gonna convince those 77 million Trump voters to change. I'm noticing a pattern here, but do you think there's a tipping point that's gonna happen now? - I do not have faith in people that triple Trump. I don't, I don't wish to offer these people an offer amp. Either I think our message should be, like, we don't understand it. We have a lot more empathy than you do. We don't particularly wanna hang out with you, but we're gonna fight for you to have healthcare. We're gonna make sure you don't file for bankruptcy because you have stage four cancer. We're gonna make sure if you have a gay grandbaby that that baby has the same rights as everybody else. And so fuck you, but we're not going to fight for, it's such a narcissistic political thing that we have to court these people and it's all about their feelings. Make it about universal human rights. Make it about a message of universal opportunity in the economy, but don't court. - I mean, Jennifer, I gotta cut you off there. What you're describing sounds like something Jesus would do. So I don't know. - I know. I know, it's really problematic with the atheist thing, isn't it? - Well, I mean, how do you reconcile that with being in Oklahoma? Do you ever have this thing where you're like, "Wow, you love Jesus, but you hate Hesuse." How does this work? 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If you want a cleaner, calmer kitchen this holiday season, go to mill.com/weiser for an exclusive offer. That's mill.com/weiser. Happy hosting. - Right now we're seeing the Maga Christians are having a huge Jesus problem. And they're fighting with the Pope right now, right? - Yeah. - Because they have invented this white papalus asshole and that's who they worship. And then anytime you talk about Jesus Christ, the actual central character of the Bible, he's this radical empath. I'm interested to see if like a James Tolerico that messages his faith. - Sure. - If what that does to the Texas electorate, I'm curious about that. I don't particularly like the co-mingling of religion and politics at all. Even if he's on my team and he's progressive and all of that, it's nauseating for me that we always have to bring up religion when it comes to politics. That's just me personally. - Have you seen what Trump's been doing? I mean, the AI Jesus photos have been wild. Okay, I want to show you the first one. This is what Trump put up. So Donald Trump put this up and then deleted it. - Yeah. - Now he then said, 'cause a lot of evangelicals got mad at this and he was like, "I'm not trying to be Jesus. I was trying to be a doctor." - Right. - Then he put this up. Today, he actually put this up a few hours ago. What's going on here? - So what I like about this is he goes from, "I'm the Messiah to now. I'm the Chosen One." Where is this, that God might be playing his Trump card, but this is hilarious to me. I read this earlier. Iris for Trump says, "I was never a very religious man, but it doesn't seem with all these satanic, demonic, child sacrifice and monsters." - Yeah, I'm trying to do the math here because that's Epstein Island, which he's in the Epstein files. - It is not religious, but you're. acknowledging satanic demonic monsters is hilarious. This is what I call Christian signaling and this has been a huge component of magus success. So they accuse us of virtue signaling and I accuse them of Christian signaling. All of the women that carry the water for the patriarchy, Christy Nome and Pam Bondy, all just the nauseating they come out with these crosses on and then you have Moses, Mike Johnson, who's always talking about the Lord, this, God, that. So he props this stuff out to Christian signal to his base, to where they go, oh, okay, this is all in our wheelhouse. This is all approved by God. You've said Donald Trump is like an evangelical preacher. Yeah, in what way? It's exactly like him. Blaschie lying all of the womanizing, think about just the interior decoration of the oval office, of his plane, all the gold, the over wealth, advertised, over promising, underdelivering, delusions of grandeur, he reminds me exactly of an evangelical preacher ripping off his base, which is exactly what that mega church pastor did when I tried to go get saved and they started talking in tongues. I, when Trump came, I was like, no wonder they like him. He's just like all of these evangelical preachers around here, full of shit, you know, artificial, you know, the swoopie here. He'd like, think about the righteous gemstones. I mean, he's like a character right out of that. Jennifer, do you get blowback in the comments from this? I mean, I'm scared for you. I don't read the comments. You don't read the comments. No. From all your friends that you went to high school in college and that you grew up with that are like, hey, why are you going out the church like this? Oh, oh, oh, those comments. So my friends in Oklahoma, I don't have any like evangelical friends. Okay. There were either Christian light or maybe agnostic because it wasn't tenable for me to be an atheist and for them to be really concerned about, you know, recruiting people. It wasn't a tenable relationship. So those people shut up, but I'm wonderful. And in a lot of purple cities like Oklahoma City, you have the best progressive liberals on the planet. These people fight hard. They're locked in because they live around the order of what Maga Supermajority's do. So I have some of the coolest friends in Oklahoma. So they're cheerleading me on about all of this. But also because they are acutely aware of how damaging mega churches are and indoctrinating people and leading them to this Maga movement. And so there is this thing in Christianity in the Bible belt where my friends that are Christian light look down upon mega churches. Oh, interesting. Yeah, because there's like, so what's their reasoning? So like around Easter, all the mega churches do these videos where they're baptizing people in the dunk tank, and then they have the rock bands and then like people like floating over the stage. And so if somebody's like an Episcopalian, which is a little classier Christian, right? They're kind of like, God, that's so trashy. So there's, yeah, there's this Christian. They're throwing shade. It's a Christian on Christian crime. Totally. Yeah, it's great. No way. Yeah. Yeah, they know that. They look down on the mega churches. So there is a distinct, and these are the people that I'm talking about that maybe they've always voted Republican because these Christian light people because they got a tax break. But they're not in that cult, that mega church mega cult, which to me is all the same psychological soil that walks you down this path where it's very easy to dehumanize people. Tell me about the turning point crowd. What does, you know, that's going to emerge in 2028 and beyond. There is a group of turning point USA kids that are turned up. Now, I was going to pull up to one of their events, but I saw what they did to Ramaswami, and I knew I probably don't belong. Christianity is the one truth. Jesus Christ is God, and there is no other God. He is a part of the Holy Trinity, and any other God is a demon, and it's false. Turning point, I mean, I think that did you see last night that our couple of nights ago where JD Vance was supposed to pull up at University of Georgia with Eric Kirk, and he showed up to tens of people. There were, I mean, I think 90% of the stadium was completely empty. - Really? This is a turning point of that? - Yeah, and Eric Kirk, no showed because she said there was a security issue, which is interesting that they would allow the sitting vice president of the United States to show up if there was a security issue. I think she found out that nobody was going to be there, or maybe she and JD having problems. I don't know, I'm just, you know, guessing there. But I think that this, the way they have treated, the horrible, unnecessary murder due to access to guns in the United States of Charlie Kirk, and they rolled out this funeral that looked like a WWE wrestling match. This back, if I remember, I told you about the Christian on Christian crime. So these mega-church people and turning point people, they live in bubble wrap with each other and mega-world in that sort of prosperity gospel world. Then you have a bunch of other Christians that think that form of Christianity is bullshit and trash. And so when they put Charlie Kirk's funeral on the national stage like that, you have people of all different face. And then you have the Christian light people, as I call them, going, "That's in poor taste, or God, that's some freaky shit, or God, that's some weird shit." And I think it backfired. I think turning point is going to be on its last leg. I think where we need to focus our attention is more to, as far as the youth goes, to like Nick Fuentes and the Groypers. Like, I think turning point is, I think that put a fork in it. I think that thing is cooked. I think turning point is dead. So I got my holy Trinity of ours that I love. I love Al Sharpton. I love Al Roker. And I love Al Gore. That's my trendy. They're just great characters. So I wanted to show you an Al Sharpton clip real quick, and I want to know your thoughts. So are you going to run again in '28? [CHEERING AND APPLAUSE] Listen, I might. I might. I'm thinking about it. If she comes back, and there is a primary, let's do it. Let's have that conversation. I think I'm not one of these Democrats that, like, oh, don't run. I'm not going to wet the bed over that. She wants to run. Let her run. Let her talk about what she and Joe Biden did. Let her answer for specific policy positions that she had. So you're, like, air it out. Step on the stage, step on the primary stage, and air it out. Yeah. I mean, if she wants to run again, and she wants to earn voters, let's hear what she has to say. I think all of the progressive bed wedding about-- she's over, blah, blah, blah, blah. Just let's have a primary. We didn't get to have one last time. Let's have a primary. And if Kamala wants to run, then let her run. Let's hear what she has to say. How did you feel about the uncommitted movement at the last DNC? Oh, it was so mad about it at the time. I was so mad about it. Really? Yeah. So, remember I was an MSNBC live. OK. So we got invited to the DNC, and I was so excited. I mean, it was, like, really surreal, because I'd always watched the DNC. Sure. And I'm from Oklahoma City, this interior designer, and I'm, like, at the DNC. Yeah, you're a mad-out head. We're meeting all of these politicians. I interviewed Barack Obama. It was just still, I think, back. And I'm just like, oh my god, that was so much fun. And every day, when I got out of the Uber and I walked into the United Center, there were Palestinian protesters. And when we left, there were Palestinian protesters. And they were peaceful. They were nice. I always said, hi. And blah, blah. Some screamed at me, whatever. But I didn't think-- it's America. You get to protest. Sure. But deep down, I thought to myself that you're going to fuck us. That you're going to fuck us. That's what I thought at the time. So I was kind of pissed off about it. And then we had the election. And she loses. He wins. She's brutal. It was so brutal. It was so brutal waking up. I think in this many fucking people voted for that. But I wasn't mad at those protesters. I thought they were-- before I thought they're going to fuck us. Afterwards, I wasn't. I realized there's a real problem in the country that 77 million people voted for this guy. Like a dirty cop. Trump's like a dirty cop. They voted for a dirty cop. And so then I really-- and I knew some stuff about Israel and Palestine. But I always bought into this narrative that like, Israel is a democracy. And they are our best friend. And they're surrounded by all these terrorist groups. And I'm an atheist. And so I'm easy for me to hate on a religion. These are these radical Muslims. So I was like, oh yeah, that sounds crazy. So I bought into that. And I lived in the middle of the country. And I didn't really expand my thinking much beyond that narrative. But my husband would always say, he's a criminal defense attorney. He'd really like him. And he's from the small town in Oklahoma called Hugo, Oklahoma. And he would always go. And he's probably more progressive than I am. I always go, I don't know what the fuck is going on with Israel. But everybody that I hate likes them. Ted Cruz and Lindsey Graham, that was his litmus test for it. And so after the election, I really started-- I thought I need to read more into all of these things. And so I read and a lot more as to what was happening with Israel and Gaza. And then once you start liking certain things in your algorithm, you get more and more and more. And then that's where you get where I just felt like, oh my god, this is awful. Of course. Of course, the Democratic Party is compromised here because we funded this. Like, and I was so happy when Joe Biden won. I was so fucking happy. And generally speaking, I was pretty happy with him the first two years of his presidency. Then it was like, is he still gonna run? He seems pretty old. But then when you find out, you know, how much the Democratic Cory Booker and Joe Biden, these Democrats that I loved, really loved, really believed in, living in a red state with all these fucking Christian nationals politicians, I really believed in these rays of hope. You find out they voted to find a regime that is Israelis that shoot little kids in the head and in the heart and carpet bomb their apartments. Just, and then it's just, now they're doing it in Lebanon. There's a million people displaced. It's like, I don't want to vote anybody that believes that. And why the fuck are these rural Americans? They don't have healthcare. They're funding that shit. - Right. - Really? Like it's just, it's so disappointing. - So in rural America where so many of their needs aren't met, how can so much of the country then also be just pro war? I don't understand. - I don't, I don't know if it's so much that they're pro war is is that it's this, it's this thing. My husband says this all the time 'cause we go to the Oklahoma City Thunder Games. We're huge Thunder Games, right? I mean, you guys are NBA champs, shut up. - Yeah, I know, SGA baby, MVP. So we go to these games and they do the national anthem. And my husband always says, I have to go to the bathroom. - Really? - Because he can't stomach it. It's not that he doesn't like America. First of all, the Colin Kaepernick thing really pissed him off. And he wouldn't allow anybody to watch the NFL for like two years in the house. Not so long ago, I was like sneaking off watching the ball or anything, but he just really upset him the way Colin Kaepernick was treated. But it really pisses him off when we're in Oklahoma City and it's like saying for the national anthem and then all of these people that he knows triple trumped act stand up in the act like they're so, they so support the troops because it just pisses me the fuck off because they go into these poor neighborhoods and recruit these guys and send them to the front lines and they come back here with PTSD, they've lost a limb, all these fucking mental problems, addiction, they don't ever fund the soldier. And it's such bullshit that they act like they're patriots. I can't even fucking stand to sit there and listen to the national anthem with them. It's total bullshit. So to your question, it's not that people in rural America are like, oh my God, I love war. It's supporting America is like being a Christian for them. It's just not an option. - Okay. - They just feel like compulsively like we're organs these Muslims, we gotta take them out. And they say death to America. Nobody has taken the time to sit down and explain to them exactly what's going on. I think we're starting to see a big change in that. I think that Israel, like the dam is broken on that thing. It is broken. And there is an exposure that they have that makes sense as to why, you know, they say things like as soon as the TikTok images subside. You know, like that's their strategy and combating this. It's just to suppress it. And so-- - Stop the cell phones. You get the cell phone out of your daughter and son's hand. They won't show up to the protest. But I think what you're talking about, and you mentioned this earlier, is a part of a larger problem. And I think all Americans should be aware of it, which is citizens united, but also oligarchs spending money and buying elections. Now you have some very choice feelings about some oligarchs. And I wanna play you this clip of Jeff Bezos that I think about three times a week. - What does money mean for you being the first person in history that has a net worth of a three-digit amount of billion? - The only way that I can see to deploy this much financial resource is by converting my Amazon winnings into space travel. So that's basically-- Blue Origin is expensive enough to be able to use that fortune. - So I have many thoughts, but I'd like to, and I've jotted them down in my journal, but I'd like to know your thoughts first, Jennifer. - I just think these men, in the way America at large, we attribute a lot of traits that these men have not earned. We are like, oh, they're geniuses, or they're just these strong alpha men. And I think when you get to become a billionaire like that, it appears as though, at least the ones that I've seen, something breaks in them, exploiting people breaks you, much like taking money from these oligarchs, might break a politician that once was a bright light. And I think it's really damning that these men have all of this wealth. And that's what he's working on. - Yeah, I don't get it with the space thing. - I thought penis extension, I think. - I thought about it multiple times. He also calls it his winnings. Like he got a lick on a scratch off. The interviewer also says you have tripled digit, hundreds of millions or billions. That's also strange. It's also like there's a lot of things on earth you could help with education, healthcare. He's like, no, we gotta go there. - Think about his ex-wife. She is spending money and over fist to help marginalized people, to enact positive change. And then you have this prick and Larry Ellison, who's just horrible, Elon Musk, who just spins his days. Could you imagine having that kind of, I've got a bank account that can choke a bull, fuck you money. And he spins his day on Twitter. He's so oppressed and he's so aggrieved. And he's chronically online, retweeting Nazis and white naturalists. It's that so pathetic. And it shows you that we think this age-old question, if you won the lottery, was the first thing you're gonna do. Well, I can tell you the last thing I'm gonna do is anything that these people do because they all seem so miserable and so unhelpful. - You know, Jennifer, I have a huge fear and walk me through this just as a heterosexual man that's 40 years old, but I am getting older. There's something about being an older man and being on the internet that bad things happen. There is something that's happening with the boomers. I wanna play a clip of one of my favorite Kenyan presidents. He had some thoughts on the boomers. Let's take a look. - It's fair to say that 80% of the world's problems involve old men hanging on and who are afraid of death and insignificance and they won't let go. And. (audience applauds) They build pyramids and they put their names on everything and they're just, they get very, they're very anxious about it. - No, is it just old men? 'Cause that man also tried to get Ruth Bader Ginsburg to retire as well. So what is it? What's going on with Americans and age? - You know, I think about this a lot because Joe Biden, I just, I think he kind of fact is, RBG kind of fact is. And I just, I loved both of them so much at one time. Like they encompassed and embodied like so much of like what my political identity was, what I identified is like this shining ray of light in this red state of, you know, Christian nationalism that I lived in. And then they just, they don't know when to, was it Kenny Rogers? No, when to hold him, no, when to fold him. No, when to walk away, no, when to run. They don't, they don't seem to do that. Like look at, like you Mitch McConnell. - I have a theory, what's your theory? What makes, what do you think is making them white knuckle power to the very end? - I honestly don't know. - I think America doesn't give dignity with old age. Eastern cultures, as you get older, we respect our elders and there's a place for you. That is a high status, so here's my pitch. - Okay. I think, once you hit the retirement age, to encourage people to retire, we should say, hey, please retire gracefully, we will give you a guest slot on the view. 'Cause that's catnip. - Yeah. - That's catnip. Daytime talk show, I get hair and makeup done every day. - Yeah. - And I get to talk politics. - Yeah. - Yeah. - That is what my dad wants to do. Think about that dream line up on the view where it's just like Chuck Grassley, who'll be Goldberg, Joy Behar, Mike Probiglia's mom, bam. (laughing) You don't know what I mean? It's like, you don't have to run healthcare anymore. You don't have to run the government anymore. You have a job. You will be seen in every dentist's office across the United States. (laughing) - I mean, you're really right about the dignity thing, because you probably saw that this week where Trump had the door dash grandma bring him McDonald's to advertise the no tax on tips. - So there's no tax on trips to something special, right? - It's very special. - And when I saw that, I thought, what an indictment on door dash the president and American culture at large. - Yeah. - That we are doing a big press conference for a grandma who's trying to raise many for her husband's fucking cancer treatment. - Yeah, it's beyond depressing. - And you're so right about that, grandmother, she's got you's meaner in a rattlesnake, mean people live forever. My nice grandparents died when they were young. - Yeah. - And this won't make it. - The people you want to live don't stick around long. - Never. people you hate will never die. - Yeah, and this is why I worry about Trump. I mean, it just keeps going and going and going. - His mind will go, but his body is blue zone. I'm telling people that he's gonna live forever. But go ahead. - So when my grandmother, she was probably in her 90s when she died, but she was in a nursing home. And my mother and I would go see her. And it's so depressing. There's just these people that would just send off to these nursing homes and wheelchairs, brain rot, physical rot, and there is no dignity in any of it, none. - You have been at times coined as a quote, "wine mom." And I can find that to be condescending. I like to unload the clip on dads. You know, and there's different types of dads. There's Patagonia, Puffer Dad. There is Subaru Dad. - Yeah. - Is that a lesbian, the Subaru Dad? - Subaru Dad is just more of like a granola dad. He may have like an NPR tote bag. He may like love to take you on a camping trip to Yosemite. Maybe he likes going to Lake Tahoe. You have the, "Hey, it's the national anthem, Dad." I know that, Dad. There's another dad I know, which is like Mary Christmas. Say it back. - Yeah. - That, Dad? - Yeah. - You speak to a particular type of mom. Can you give me some alts on "wine mom?" - Oh, okay. So I would say I agree with you that the "wine mom" thing is kind of reductive, and I was offended by it at first. But now I'm like, don't wet the bed, just embrace it. - Sure. - You know, but don't sweat the small stuff. But different types of moms, there's the PTA moms, and this is a breed of mom that is really intense. I mean, these are the types that-- - That's authoritarianism. - It totally is authoritarianism. I was in these group means that we're just really alarming for my child that was a senior in high school last year. I mean, and it is like, the boys need to ride for the basketball game at 8 p.m. if they arrive late, then did it, and just like, they can drive. - Sure. - They can vote. They're 18-year-olds. Pipe down, Mom, and I had this one mom. I went to a mom meeting. These mothers can be a lot. My son, my oldest son, was going on a trip to New York, his freshman year of high school. And they were going with just like the art teachers. And this mom, right, we were in this meeting before we sent our kids off to New York. And I was just like, you know, they're going to go have fun. They do this trip every year. - So this is in Oklahoma City and you're about to send your kids to New York. - Yeah. - Got it, okay. - And so this mom, they said, do you have any questions? And I was like, oh, God, here we go. Here come the power, Mom. They're coming. She raises her hand, and she starts and she said, I'm going to ask what everybody's been thinking. Probably this whole meeting, do you have a plan? If there is a 9/11 style attack while our kids are in New York? - Whoa. - And I mean, it was audible. I went, oh, right. I just thought, my God, how could you parent like that? I mean, that's what you're thinking about. - Well, what did the mom say? What did the 9/11 mom say? - Well, then the teachers, the teachers. - The 9/11 proper. - The art, the history, whatever they were like. If something happens, we stay together as a group. You know, some standard bullshit stuff. And she, like, doubled down. She asked multiple follow-up questions for it. At this point, I've completely checked out because I am just like-- - I'm intrigued. - Everybody is going to hate your kids. So I went home and I go to my son, Dylan. I'm like, Dylan. The last name, 'cause I knew the woman's last name. I was like, is her son a pussy? And Dylan was like, oh, yeah, he's the biggest pussy. And I was like, I knew it. I knew that that woman's son had to be a pussy. If that's the mom that's raising him. - Jen, you can spice-y. - But it's true when you think so. - I mean, is that the new alt? The wine mom is the al-Qaeda mom? 'Cause it's like, it's quite the comparison. - I thought it was nuts, but I think that there's just so much hyper helicopter, mommy going on. And it's just, like, I was a gen-exer. And so, like, we just went, we were feral. You know, we were just out kind of-- - Rabbit. - Totally. We were like latch-key kids. And so all of-- - Figure it out.gov. - Totally. So all of that just, you know, a 95 different-- - Oh, this is what she said. This was her follow-up question. I can't believe I forgot this. - Yeah, yeah, in case al-Qaeda strikes back, sure. - She said, what if a parent, I'm not saying who, went and stayed at the same hotel just in a different room? - Okay. - And this teacher at the high school said, well, that would defeat the purpose of the trip, because we're wanting to take the kids without their parents to say, hey, this is an opera. This is an art museum. 'Cause typically, if kids are exposed to that, with their parents, they rebel like, hey, the opera. I hate an art museum. If they do it together. - Do you do it to encourage independence and make a new memory? - Yeah, and the willingness to embrace art, which I really appreciate it. - Yeah. - And so she was like, well, what if, and then she kept going on, what if we stay at the hotel across the street, and the teacher was like, lady, maybe he finally was like, maybe your child isn't a good candidate to come on this trip, because we really like to get them away from the parents and expose them to things that we don't really have in Oklahoma. And that's when I went home, and I still, and if her son was a pissy, he confirmed that yes he was. - Okay, copy that, I had no response to that. I don't want to unload the clip one. Dylan's friend or anything like that. Jennifer Walsh, thank you so much for being on the show. - Thank you. ♪ I'll rewrite away ♪ ♪ No, they may stop me ♪ ♪ Make your daddy glad ♪ ♪ You have had some trouble ♪ - Have you subscribed to Lemon Out of Premium yet? 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