How Treehouse Became Riyadh’s Favorite Farm-to-Table Café with Lulwah Al Juraiban

Welcome to Success Saudi, a podcast featuring leaders and entrepreneurs in KSA. Our aim is to provide you with local tips and wisdom to help you on your own journey to success. My name is Maria Cametti and I'm here today with Lulua Algerayban. Lulua is the founder of Treehouse, Riyadh's favorite farm to table cafe. They have two locations in Riyadh, a popular catering service, and are continuing to grow and expand. After Treehouse was recommended to us by our previous podcast guest, Susana Kellos, the founder of RWG, I've been enjoying their salads and sandwiches almost daily and really wanted to interview the founder. Thankfully, Lulua agreed to share her story with us today. Lulua, thank you so much again for being with us today to kick off season two of Success Saudi podcast. Thank you for having me. It's an honor to be here part of your program. And I hope I inspire entrepreneurs who are hesitant to take the first step. Awesome. I'm sure you will. So, to start off, my first question is, do you have a memory from childhood that has inspired your work with Treehouse today? Actually, Treehouse is rooted into my memories. Going into the story behind Treehouse, we had a big family farm in Al-Qasim where I come from, and we used to visit this farm during Rheed with our extended family. And we used to spend hours in the nature, and we had a little Treehouse that we used to get role plays and spend hours there with imagination. And so, Treehouse is rooted into this story where we celebrate family, church, clean food, nature, and yeah, like honest real food. So, that's how Treehouse came to life. That's so special. I wasn't expecting that much of a tie in between the two. That's amazing. So, did you grow up in Qasim? No, I didn't. We just visit the farm on 8 days, and I grew up in Rheav, but we always go to the farm each year. So, it's nice to have this memory where it's all connected. Wow, that's beautiful. Do you have pictures? Yes, we do. We always post on our Instagram the farm and this is the produce we get for Treehouse. Yes. And we can talk about this further in the other questions, but yes. Okay, and so you grew up in Rheed, you would go to Qasim for the holidays and spend time there in nature on the farm. What did you study in school? I studied business, so marketing and business, so it's not really into, I mean, I worked in IT and it's just a different field for me, but yeah. So, not organic farming? No, not that, but I'm very well aware about this whole organic farming, because I grew up in a family that's very, I mean, they care what they eat and it's an important topic in the family. Amazing. So, after school, what did you do once you graduated? I took a corporate job, which is an IT, and I continued working until I took a break to open Treehouse and then I'm back with my corporate job again. Oh, you are? Yes, I am. I'm a full-time employee. Oh, my gosh, I didn't realize that. And when did you start thinking about Treehouse? Treehouse, I mean, I started thinking about Treehouse ever since I graduated. We learned so much in school about business and the business field, so all these, all the Treehouse ideas was, I was catching them during university. So, the idea was always there. I was just waiting for the right time and how to start and just, I wasn't really, I mean, I was scared to take the first step, but things happened. Okay, at the end. And what helped you to take the first step? Was there something that happened? I mean, I'm a risk taker. So, I took the risk at a young age. I asked questions. There were people in the field, so I wasn't hesitant to take, I mean, take their advice and see, what did they do? And I just followed their steps, so family members or friends in the food and beverage industry. Yes. And it was like the hype where people started their own restaurants. So, it was easy for me to follow their steps and see what they did right, what they did wrong, and yeah, that was basically how it all started. And did you find people happy to share their experiences with you? They were really helpful. Yeah, people were, yeah, they wanted to see how the businesses grow and it was, whoever helped me at that stage, I really owe my all the success to them. So, in what year did you start, Trio? Okay, so we opened, that's a funny story actually. We opened on the first day of the shutdown on COVID. So, we opened the morning and the shutdown on Riyadh was around noon. So, it was a challenge, of course. I thought, like, what did I do to myself? Like, when I started this, it's, this happens. And then it turned out to be a blessing because people were like, health, they were health conscious, they wanted, yeah, they wanted clean food. So, it turned out to be okay, despite, like, the restrictions on mobility and leaving the house and going employees, going and coming back. So, that was a challenge. And what exactly was this? It was March 2020. March 2020, okay. Yeah. And that was our first day. And, yeah, I remember spending days in treehouse. I can't go home because we can't come the next day because we didn't have permits to use the car and we just, it was chaotic. But I can't imagine. Yeah, but it was, it was, it was fine because I had a good team and we, we, we, I mean, we stayed long hours in treehouse on that particular week. And we were, we weren't expecting that much orders, you know, because we thought, yeah, this is the first week and, yeah. But it was, it was chaotic. Did you receive a lot of orders? You've been from your first week. Yeah, like, we opened the jahas up on the first, first couple of days and there wasn't any space between each ringing tone of jahas. Like, it was, and it was like crazy, crazy, but good, crazy. Wow. Yeah. We sold out every day ahead of what we expected. So if you had started and there wasn't the COVID lockdown, would you, did you plan to put treehouse on the delivery apps right away? No, not at all. Okay. Yeah, we haven't planned that because we thought we want people to come and dine in and know the story, read our, like, it was part of the plan. But things didn't go as planned and you adjusted. Yeah, and we adjusted because we had no other choice. How interesting and how did you get the word out about treehouse from the beginning? To be honest, and like, that's a surprise as well because we haven't had any marketing plan at that time because people were already talking about it around us. And word of mouth was, was the only thing that I was relying on at that time. It shouldn't be right, but with your marketing, that yeah, yeah, exactly. Like, I had a plan and budget and all that. But I didn't use any of that in the beginning because I didn't expect that much of sales in the in the beginning. So everything was parked away. Wow, okay. So you started during COVID, you're on the delivery apps, were there, I mean, besides COVID, was there any other unexpected challenges in the beginning? Stopping, of course, because we had at that time, we had three employees only. So even with over time, even with whatever you try to do, you can't accommodate the shift. And having more employees was a struggle as well because during COVID, there were no people coming in from other countries. And so that's, I mean, all the struggle that we had was roaming around COVID. But that means, oh, COVID, of course, yes, okay, we didn't have any people coming in. So the story wasn't like told, you know, the right way or the how we expected, expected people to know about three hours. But I mean, yeah, it turned out to be okay, like, wow, okay. So when you were opening, I know there were a lot of people that gave you their advice. Were you able to seek any support or guidance from any entities? One entity that I, I mean, we used a lot or we relied on was Munchat. Okay. Yeah, and they helped us a lot on many aspects. But if I would say one thing, it would be, don't wait for these entities to come and give you help. You have to be proactive, ask questions, look for solutions and, yeah, be proactive because they won't come and give you the support without you asking for it. Did somebody recommend that you visit Munchat? Can you tell us, like, what you did? Did you just go in and visit them? Up until this day, like, we, we still get support from Munchat in terms of questions, legal, staffing, business questions. If we want to go into a partnership, we always seek their advice and they would tell us what to do. I mean, they're a good guide on, on, on the business aspect in a whole. So in the beginning, yes, we used to visit them and then we had a direct, now we have a direct relationship with them. Anytime you would, you can go visit them on their, they opened a customer, like, an office on King Khaled Road. And you can just, yeah, you can just pop in and ask for your, for any advice that you need. They have different divisions on each topic. So, according to sectors? Yes, so you go in, there's a reception, you tell them, I'm here, I have a business in this industry and then what do they do? They ask you to go on the app of Munchat. Okay, then just book an appointment of what topic that you are looking after. Is it legal? Is it business related? Is it partnerships? Is it franchise? And then they, they assign you someone to speak to you? Okay, yeah, that's basically how it works. And the people that they assign to speak with you, are these employees of their organization? Or are they like, okay, their employees? They're Munchat employees. Okay, yeah. So, they have experience with other businesses, of course, because they get a lot of people around. I mean, they get a lot of experience because they, they meet a lot of entrepreneurs. Yeah, there's dealing with a lot of businesses. And for example, you mentioned legal. Yeah, does that, like, replace your guidance from a law firm? And they would, they would actually guide you into a legit law firm. Okay. And what actions you should take, but of course, you have to rely on a lawyer and what, what truth you should, you should be following. But how the regulations, yes, according to the regulations and the right guidance, I would say. Was there any, were there any challenges for you with, like, any type of licensing? I mean, was everything straightforward? No, not really. When we started, we did a lot of mistakes in our first branch. We thought something was, I mean, we didn't have a really, a guide of how to follow these regulations, you know, so it was hard for us to, we learned from our mistakes, I would say. Some construction mistakes, some permit mistakes, some employee mistakes, and so on. But you learn as you go, and then on the second branch, it was much easier and much more straightforward. Okay, that makes sense. And were you involved in the everyday operations from the beginning when you opened? Of course, yes, I had to. There was no other choice. I, I love to be part of it, of course, because it's my vision, and I want to, you know, people to be part of this. So, yes, I was part of the operation. Day to day, I used to finish my corporate job and then go to a tree house. So you were working your corporate job when you started? Yes, I just took a break when, at the planning phase. So, okay, getting the permits and all that required me to be all around Dria. So, I had to take a break, but when tree house opened, I was still on, on my, on my job. Wow, yeah. And was that a, why did you make the decision to stay in your corporate job? And I still don't know, I still don't know what I do ever think about, you know, switching and focusing on your business full time. Yes, at some point, I think I will. It's just waiting for the right time, or maybe because I've been into this job for over 10 years. So, it's just like, it's becoming a lifestyle that, you know, it's hard to let go of it. And it would take a lot of courage to, to have that structure in your life, you know, when you have a job from 9 to 5. And what does your job consist of? What type of work are you doing in your, it's basically IT operations. So, it's, it requires a lot of office work and long hours, long meetings, calls. So, it takes a lot of my time. But then again, if you ask me about my life, it's the corporate job, two girls and three house. So, it's, my plate is full. And I can't, I can't function if I don't plan. So, the key here is I, I know what my week looks like ahead of time. So, if I don't plan my day, I can't, I can't function because it's just things go on top of each other. And then prioritize what, what can go first in the week, what can be pushed later. And yeah. Are you an organized person by nature? Yes. I think I am. Because it doesn't work otherwise, you know. You can't balance and you can't, if my calendar is not clear with what obligations I have, then I can't function. Are things that you're learning in your day job helping you with three house or is it, it's somehow like in a corporate job, you know how it is, it's, it helps you be punctual, organized, using lots of tools that helps the business grow. So, yes, I learned a lot and, and I tried to implement what is suitable into three house. Okay. Wow. That's amazing. Thank you. So, this is a popular topic, but besides being organized, are there any other tips that you have to other parents managing a job and a business? Is there anything that's helped you? I mean, I always think that I can't be great in everything. So, I don't put that pressure on myself. I ask for help. I don't, I mean, I don't, I can't actually be good in all aspects if I wanted to. So, it's okay to make mistakes here and there and, and not give this enough time if you want to do everything at once. So, I would say yes and just believe in Allah that things will be okay and if it's not okay, it's not the right time then. So, I would say yes, just organize yourself, be okay with yourself having mistakes and not giving everyone the right time. I always, I mean, in my social life, I try also to be social because it's good for my well-being, but if I can't, I would say I just can't be with you today or I can't come and I leave early and it's, it bothers some people, but yeah, that's how I can manage my life. And there, from what I've seen with my Saudi friends, there's a lot of like expectations and obligations with family and friends. True, true. And a lot of that happens in weekends, weekdays and late nights, but I sleep early. So, and that's how my friends hate that because I, I can't, you just, yeah, I'm a morning person. So, I have to wake up early to be able to make sure my kids go to school. I go to my job. I finish early and focus on greenhouse tasks and have my social family time at home. If I still have energy, I would go out. If not, I would stay home and that's okay. You mentioned that's how it is, that's how you function and some people are okay with it, some people aren't. Are there certain people close to you in your life that help support you in these decisions you make and the boundaries you set because I imagine it can be difficult? Yeah, I mean, yes. I mean, Hamdulillah, my husband is also an early bird. So, he, he, he understands my lifestyle and he's a bit the same. And he has, I mean, his job also requires a lot of long hours and excessive travel. So, when he's there, we can balance a bit, but when he's not, it's a bit hectic. And I mean, that's how I am. I have to be accepted by the people around me. Although, everyone around me has a different lifestyle, you know, they go out late, this ride. And there's a lot of pressure, but I don't drag myself into that feeling that I have to or like, I'm very self focused. Good for you. Yeah. Has there ever been a moment in starting treehouse that you wanted to give up? Yes, every week. It's, I don't want to be a perfectionist and say, no, and it's really, the reality, like you get fed up so many times with like being able to go on. But I just, when I see treehouses bags around me or people that message me on WhatsApp saying that I love this salad. I today had treehouse or I get a catering order of a big party or so. Then I just, I mean, it keeps me going, you know, I'm like, no, I can't. Plus, I'm very emotionally attached to treehouse. So, I treat it like one of my kids and you can't let go, you know, of your kids. So, whenever I get a partnership request and all that or selling treehouse to someone, it's just that emotional connection is hard to, you know, just let go of it. So, yes, I get these thoughts, but I try to overcome them when I think about the positive side of it. And is that thinking about the positive side, the memories, the customer experiences and things people say to you that, you know, give you that extra boost. Is there anyone else like, do you have any coaches or anyone that? No, not really. No coaches. It's just how, you know, these good moments are really, really special to me. So, I try to look at them and keep on going. You know, I just try, sometimes, I try to read the customer's messages, sometimes the feedback and it just gives me perspective that I have to go on and continue the journey. Is there anyone in your family that started a business and you were able to see the journey? I mean, a lot of, you know, because there are a lot of entrepreneurs on young ages now in Saudi and the youth, Mashallah, they are amazing and they do great concepts. And, yeah, we support each other. I mean, I have cousins who are almost going to open new concepts and they would call me and ask me and I would, I wish I had that person as much, like, dedicated person that would help me. So, I try to be that person around the people that seek help. And when I need something, I would reach out to friends, fellows, family members that opened and went to that, you know, that route. So, you, well, it sounds like from the beginning, you're comfortable asking for. Yeah, very, very comfortable. I'm, I'm not sure about asking help, but not knowing and making mistakes and going back to the, you know, to the right way. Good for you. I'm really curious about this. For myself, my father has a home improvement company and I was working in his business growing up and just watching him and the catastrophes that would happen at work. And I remember just thinking to myself, like, why doesn't he just sell the business and walk away? Like, this is too much for someone. But he just kept going. Yeah. And things got better. And yeah, you see that that's the nature of business. But I feel like if I didn't see that, it would be hard to like know that. Yeah, exactly. Like, you would think things are sunshine and everywhere is bright, but it's, in reality, it's not. You get challenges. But if I would advise anyone anything about this aspect, I would say, I try not to drag myself into the day-to-day issues and make them big, you know, I just look at the big picture, take a step away and not take action immediately. Because when you're caught up with these small problems, they're, they become bigger in your head, you know, and then drag you down. So I try to step back and look at the big picture and try not to drag myself into the day-to-day problems or issues. That's a really great advice. And I think that's a mistake I definitely made early on, especially because also when you're get to involved in the daily issues and problems, which every business inevitably has, it becomes difficult for you to pitch the vision and the value of your company when you're way down by all these issues. True. That you said. Yes. So I found it was getting hard for me to like sell. Yeah. Because I just know all the problems. You're anything. You just get dragged into it and you shouldn't, you just have to be a bit away about on these issues. Yeah. Do you have a personal assistant, or executive assistant, somebody? We have a very great team. I would say that because without this team and help and and people around me entry house, I wouldn't, I can't do it to myself. So yes, a good team that has obligations and responsibilities around all the aspects of the business. So yes, we do have help and I can't run the thing all alone, especially with two branches. Yeah. And things getting bigger. So yes. So who is your go-to? Do you have, I mean, it depends on the topic, but I don't like to rely myself on one person because if he leaves, she leaves, it's going to be a problem. So I try to segregate each topic into a person and then give that obligation to that person, accounting, finance, business strategy, operation and all that. Do you have any tips on building the right team, finding good team members? I mean, that's your team is basically your customers. If you serve them well, they will serve back. So I tried to make sure that the the team are well treated and you know, it's just hard sometimes when they're experts. It's hard enough to be living alone in a new country and that alone is a struggle. So we try to make them feel home, we try to make them feel welcome and just try to treat them fairly, always celebrate their celebrations, be part of their journey as well because you know, they're the essence of of of your business and if they're not, I mean, they're not giving then the whole business can't go the right way. So if you ask me about the process, yes, we interview them. We don't rely on phone interviews. I would say try to get video interviews. Okay. If you're if you're there or overseas, yeah, if they're here, try to take time to meet them in person because it always makes a difference. Okay. So yeah, we try to be engaged as much as possible before the the hiring process. We give them time to to try us and we try them and then take it from there. Anything you look for in their past experience or I mean, for me, I think everything they can learn at three house, we have very clear guidance and all that. But what I look always, what I look after is the personality because she has all about family gathering and and having a clean, you know, meals. So I want them to understand the story. They have that mindset that they're part of not only a commercial place, but a real story and an authentic place and and they have to have this personality that they can be close to the customers. I mean, sometimes customers come and ask for let's say Chris who is a salad maker and they say, I want Chris to take my order because he knows what I like. Some people would come and say, I know, Alvin, let's say, and he knows my salad. He knows what I like and my sandwich. So they have this relationship with the customers. Sometimes they bring me some catering orders because the customers contact them. Yeah, someone has a party or whatever. So so yes, I try to make them part of the the treehouse family. And when you're doing the interviews, do you get a sense of who you know has those personality? You get a sense. You're not always right, of course. Yes, reality is not the same, but we try as much as we can. And then when they come, we try to take them to the farm, try to educate them about organic, you know, because not all of them are very well aware about clean food. We emphasize on the story as much as we can so that they can also, they're the face of the customers. So they have to speak the story the way we we wanted to reach people. That's one of the things I've admired about Batille. Yeah, I think they also bring their team members to their farm and they can then they can really speak about the brand and the process. Yeah, really, it's so important. And you mentioned like treating them like family, you know, when somebody's like family, you know, they have their ups and downs. Yeah. And sometimes they have like personal issues and stuff. And how do you kind of separate that from, okay, there's a business and there's a job to be done versus like being compassionate to what they're going through? We try to be balanced and having a woman on first start, it's not really easy because you're also always on the emotional side. But we try to be as as helpful as we can. And yeah, just understand that people go through stuff just like me and just like, what I go through. So we try to be, I mean, helpful in that aspect and always, I mean, try to make them feel like it's okay to go through bad days and good days and it's just part of life. So yeah, yes, we totally understand that. Tell us, why did you start three hours? Okay. I mean, it's still connected to a personal journey. I had a family member who for long years suffered from cancer. And at that time, doctors weren't really optimistic on how much time she could live. But then what they advised is that just focus on clean nutrition and clean food. And then that's where we started our organic farming business, where we, not the business, of course, at that time, it was just for family and for her specifically. And surprisingly, she lived seven, beloved years. So it was, I saw that impact of clean nutrition and clean honest food. And then I, the farm grew to supply our family members, extended family members, friends. I used to get so many calls from my friends saying, can we get some vegetables? Can we get some? And then this farm started supplying major supermarkets. And it was one of the first organic farms that had international accreditation. So it was well known that it was real organic, no pesticides and all that. And then I wanted, now when our generation came on, I wanted to share or continue this clean food concept into salad sandwiches, smaller families and a wider range of people to enjoy. So that's how G house started. Wow. And who was managing the farm? The farm was managed by my dad, my uncles and my uncle, actually, I just have one uncle. So it was personally, I mean, it was through just the family farm, you know. Yeah. Wow. It grew into, now it gives major supermarkets around Saudi. That's really interesting. Yeah. Who are tree houses customers? Well, what we love about tree house is our customers are really diverse. From the biggest CEO and owners of the biggest banks to the small kids who are in the kindergarten with my kids that love the kids meals. By the way, I love that you added the kids meals because I'm always going to order it for myself. And then, you know, one of my kids will get home and it's like, healthy meal for. Yes. And we noticed that many of the kids meals customers are adults, not the kids. So so people actually love that. And then we have the catering line where people are, and I'm happy that it's growing nicely because people are fed up with, you know, these coffee breaks where you have cookies and croissants and you just feel bloated. You just feel bloated right after that. And it doesn't serve, you know, the coffee break purpose. So having clean, healthy meals in between breaks actually is better. So plus those these nice events, birthdays, the catering line serves that. So these customers are growing. And yeah, they're I mean, they're diverse. How do you decide which items to put on the menu? So basically the farm writes the menu. So whatever that is in season, we try to incorporate into the base of our recipes. And yeah, we try to come up with recipes around what's in season, because that's all I mean, this is what we are about. We try to avoid avocados, let's say on winter, because they're not ripe, they're not nice. And then we stop these items for a while until they're back in season. And we listen to customers, because they suggest many, because they're like two house customers and they know what what the taste palette is. Yes. So they usually suggest and send us messages and family friends. I also always suggest if we travel and see something really unique, we would try to find out how it was made or try to, you know, adapt it to the Saudi taste. So this is how we come up with menu items. Amazing. Any plans to expand the menu, or you'd keep it as simple. For me, it's overwhelming to go into a restaurant and having so much options. Yes, I would agree. I want to know what's good. Yeah. So I try to limit the items as much as I can, but I always change the menu. So I would find some salads that are here this month, but not next month, and then some seasonal stuff that comes into Ramadan, a read, and so on. We want to keep that interesting. Yeah, exactly very good. But this is one of the ones that continued beyond Ramadan, because I had so much fun. So we kept it good. Adding managed food waste. Okay, so I would answer this question into two parts. Part number one would be the vegetables that we take from the farm, the organic vegetables, you know, some, some supermarkets would have regulations on how what the carrot size would be, and they would not accept like a beyond 15 centimeters, let's say, or 12 or whatever. And then usually in farms, these go to waste, because nobody would take them. So in treehouse, we tried to take these, like they call it the ugly, beautiful vegetables. And I shed light on this subject on social media a lot, because these vegetables are good vegetables, and they're not supposed to go to waste. They're just not at the standard sizes. So we tried to take these vegetables and use them in our menu. The second thing would be in our recipes, we try to come up with recipes that, like the stems of the coriander or the parsley stems that are usually thrown. We usually try to use them in, for example, chicken broth, soup, or the baked vegetables sticks that needs green color. And so we try to come up with the recipes that will eliminate food waste in the in the operation itself. So that's how we manage it or try to be, you know, the good part of the food waste. And it's one of the most important topics to me. If you search my WhatsApp group with my team, you would always find the word food waste. Like I try as much as I can, because I feel it's like it's not, it's just not good to have that much food waste every day. So I try to stress on this day to day in the operation side. It's so sad when you go into the supermarket. And like the other day, I saw like just all these ripe avocados. And it's like, you know, those are just going to waste tomorrow. They're not going to survive tomorrow. Yeah. And even like with, I don't know the reason for this, but it seems like a lot of the bigger establishments in supermarkets when they have like bakery items and things that have expired. Like they don't let staff take it. Yeah. Do you know why that is? I think because I don't, I don't really know, but I think because they, they're just not comfortable having the stuff take stuff that it's not really a waste. But I think that's the reason. But, you know, so that they sometimes they cut the chicken bigger so that they can take. I think, okay. I mean, if you're seeing it from both sides, I just see the waste. But it's also not, you know, it's just hard breaking to see that much. It could go to waste. And it's just not good. Well, I'm glad to hear that you're, we try. Taking all, yeah, all possible memory measures so limit that. Yeah. What are some key lessons that you've learned along your entrepreneurial journey? I would say taking risks is one. Listening to constructive feedback is another one because sometimes you get too defensive because you're attached to the brand and you don't want to listen to what people think, but actually it's hard. Sometimes it's hard to hear it, but it's reality. I mean, you need to adapt to what people like and they don't like and just believe that Allah will make things better at the right time. So it's not, if it's not good, okay, now it's, so it's just God's plan that it will be. You have to have that faith. And yeah, that's basically what I learned as we, and learn from you the mistakes, of course. Don't, don't let your mistakes be, they're just to look at, just learn from the mistakes you've done and don't try to make them again in your future plans. Have you learned anything about yourself on a personal level? I mean, I think I've often changed during this journey because, yeah, like learning from my mistakes was one of the things I wouldn't, I didn't believe in that in the past, but when I started doing them and see the impact, I started adapting and to learning from these mistakes. You saw the benefit of learning those lessons. Yeah. What are some of the biggest opportunities you see right now in the F&B sector in Saudi? I mean, I feel like Riyadh is being the capital of a lot of, I mean, sectors and F&B is one of them. And people changed a lot in the, in the recent future, which they're not following only trends and flashy places. They want real authentic food, clean food, and they want real good taste. So I think the opportunity is there, you just need to be creative and look for the right opportunity. What are some common mistakes that you see new entrepreneurs or new businesses that are entering the F&B space making? Maybe you made them yourself, maybe not, but you noticed them and others. To be honest, I follow my own race, so I don't really pay attention to others. Of course, I study a competition. I look what's new in the market, but I don't try to drag myself into what others are doing. I just focus on the real big picture of Treehouse's journey, and then that's how I stay focused into, yeah, into growing. One of the things I see, I don't recall if I've mentioned this before, but sometimes these restaurants open in massive locations. True. And I can't maintain it. Yeah. I think part of that is like the what's available in the commercial real estate, but that's one thing I see is common, and they close up really quick. Yes. It gives you an indication that that's not the right thing to do in the beginning. You notice anything else like that in the market where you go in and see, they shouldn't be doing this. I mean, as I said, I'm not really focused on others, but I'm and you must know this thing. I've seen a lot of mistakes that are, I mean, I wish I never, I made them myself, but then I try to learn and not to replicate this in my other branches. And maybe in the future of Treehouse, some mistakes that we've done, we want to eliminate them, but yeah, taking big spaces is one of them. As you mentioned, we used to have a big space. We narrowed down the space and focused on operational, the kitchen space. So yeah, some, some things that you learn as you go. Anything else like that that comes to mind. Maybe an excessive menu is also very hard to maintain and very hard to supply and just the food waste goes more and then you lose more profit on that. So yeah, just eliminating your menu and making it focused into your, your core, keeping it simple. Yeah. What do you wish that more entrepreneurs knew about starting a business today? I mean, what I wish at that time is like a manual of how to start a restaurant in Saudi because that has many regulations that are different from any other businesses. So there are belidia regulations, there are construction regulations and many operational regulations. So I wish I had a manual that would go through all these steps in sequence. And yeah, that, that would help a lot. Are you writing it? No. I think it for myself for the next. Yeah, you know, branch or whatever, but yeah, it's hard to do. But there is no manual as of now. So there are manuals for each sector, but nothing that is in sequence, you know, what to do first. Yeah, well, I think what you mentioned before and it was also like the best advice I can give, like talk to as many people as you can, because nothing can replace that experience. Yeah, that knowledge and experience. We have some rapid fire questions. All right. Okay. Favorite business book or podcast? The diary of a CEO. I love that book. Good one. What's one belief or habit that's made a big difference in your success? Scheduling my day and being punctual, being, you know, just scheduling the calendar would be one great advice. Best purchase you've made in the past year under 500s are? I got a Saudi plate done by Saudis in the Red Sea. It was a date plate. So that was, that was nice to purchase. Like a hot rate? Yeah. Hot airy handmade. Oh, beautiful. Favorite Saudi brands or products? So one thing about me is that I am an ice cream addict. So I love ice cream, gelato and all that. And there's a Saudi brand that's called Sookli and it serves fresh organic gelato. So that's one of my favorites. You love it? Yeah. Oh, good. What are your kitchen staples for healthy eating? I mean, that's a bit maybe weird, but we plan our meals ahead as well. Like we have a full schedule of what our lunchboxes are for work, the kids lunchboxes, the our lunch, our dinner, our snacks, our bedtime tea. So we have that into a schedule each week. And it rotates each week. And that helps us a lot with food waste within our family. Wow. It helps us organize what to buy for the next week. So yeah, that's one of, one of the tips I would recommend. That's amazing. That's a bit beyond, but, but it's a help that's a lot. I can see that would definitely help. Maybe you should consider something that plan. What's next for Treehouse? I mean, for Treehouse, I think we want to grow with the right opportunity and the right partners. So we're not, we're not yet satisfied where we are. We want to grow. We want to get bigger. So just with the right opportunity and the right people. And the right partners might the right all the difference. Yeah, right? What are you most excited about in the future, personally or professionally? Maybe be the better version of myself, try to be the better version of myself and then pave the way for Treehouse to be to have a great future. So yeah. And how can everyone follow your journey? Just visit us in our two branches, follow us on Instagram, TikTok and all these social media channels. You'll find more about Treehouse. Awesome. Thank you so much for sharing your story with us. I feel like we could just keep going much longer, but even with a couple of mousse abs, we've taken a lot of your time and now that I know you also have a full-time job besides Treehouse and your mom and just thank you so much for sharing it. Thank you. It was a pleasure. Thank you to our host for today's podcast, Vivienda Hotel Villas. Vivienda is a distinctive concept of luxury hospitality, offering an exclusive collection of private villas designed for those seeking the finest standards of privacy, comfort and elegance located in Riyadh with five branches across the city and one prestigious location in Jeddah. Vivienda provides a unique home away from home experience. Each villa has its own private pool and garden, ensuring an unparallel level of relaxation and exclusivity. Since Vivienda opened this beautiful de-cue location, I've hosted a couple of private dinner and brunch gatherings here in their poolside restaurant and the entire experience has been exceptional. Thank you Vivienda for welcoming us today. This episode begins season two of the Success Saudi podcast. We have an exciting lineup of guests on the calendar and would also love your recommendations. Do you know an amazing entrepreneur or industry leader with experience and wisdom to share with us? Please send us a message and let us know. Thank you so much for being part of our mission to empower entrepreneurs in KSA.