620: How To Use LinkedIn To Land Premium Clients Faster with Matt Lakajev

Hello my friend and welcome back to my business playbook. I am so so excited for this episode today. I just finished recording this and oh my goodness it was a master class in generating leads on LinkedIn. Today I am joined by my dear friend Matt Lackey of he is one of the founders of seven figure creatives. He has coached over 2,000 founders on how to generate leads on LinkedIn. His clients have generated over 172 million dollars by using LinkedIn lead gen strategies. He's also ranked number six in the world for lead generation so we're going to dive straight in to this incredible deep dive into how to get clients on LinkedIn as a creative. Matt welcome I'm so happy that you're here. Thank you for joining me today. My question for you is I want you to sell me on why I as a creative should join the dark side of LinkedIn. We call this the dark side in the night side because you're wearing a black t-shirt. I'm wearing a white t-shirt and I'm an Instagram girl and I've tried to do LinkedIn. I've tried it and then I feel like I go in there and then I'm like forget about it and then I forget my password and then I see app deletes off my phone and I'm like I yeah I don't know where to tell you so I would love to sell LinkedIn. Yeah can you sell it's like sell me this pen that sell me LinkedIn. So before we like yeah the only people that should be using LinkedIn and people that sell something expensive. Okay. So if you're a commerce or you're selling something cheaper like LinkedIn is not. Don't do it. Yeah because it's a it's a B2B or a high higher ticket B2C platform as well. So what I would say for LinkedIn is okay so imagine you have two computers. So on your right you have this beautiful MacBook brand new like MacBook lovely you just bought it whatever the color you made it right and that's that is Instagram. Cool sexy easy to use amazing. On the left you have a desktop Windows 95. That's that's what you have. And so if everyone in the world has two options to select from what are they going to use? Everybody is going to use the amazing sexy MacBook because like that's what it is. But LinkedIn looks like Windows 95 but when you start using it it's actually the MacBook operating system. It just looks like shit. And so that's the thing. LinkedIn is like the ugly platform that nobody uses because they automatically assume that like wow no one do that. So with LinkedIn like you it's like you're a big fish and a little pond. Yeah. And so there's that's like one aspect so big fish and a little pond. The other key things are because of that there's no competition. Yeah. Because like no one actually really tries on there. So like I'll regularly have clients or people I know get 200,000 impressions on an AI generated post. But yeah really common. The other part is that you can't lie on LinkedIn. You can't lie about your mutual connections with someone else. It's really difficult to lie about your job history. So you can't buy followers. You can only connect with a certain amount of people every week, proactively, outbound. And then people have to connect with you. And so like you actually can't lie. It's really lie proof. So you can't buy your way into it. The other part is that when people go onto LinkedIn as a platform they're going on there to be educated not to be entertained. So they're in their mind. The mindset they're in when I go to Instagram the only time I go on it is when I'm lying in better with my wife on a Sunday for a little bit hungover. And we just want to watch some funny videos. I don't go in there with the buying mindset onto Instagram. And but when I go to LinkedIn people go there because they're like I'm feeling like you know I'm hungover on a Monday. I can't go to Instagram because that's like bad. But I'll go to LinkedIn. I'll feel professional. I'll feel corporate. And because of that it's the only platform really that any executives take seriously. And because also there's no automations like there are but it's very small and you get your account down for using it. Like it's not like Twitter where you just get and flying with all these automations everywhere. And we just like span content all the time. And also it's tech space. So the entry to actually start posting content like the barried entries very very low. A lot of people don't like video. So LinkedIn actually video does shit. It's really bad. They had a video favorite while and they got rid of it because no one liked it. Because when you open up the LinkedIn app when you're fine, like if I open right now, like I don't expect sound to come out. And I don't want to watch a video. But if I open Instagram, I'm going to have my headphones in. And because or I'm going to expect if I watch a video sound will come out. So I won't be embarrassed. So with LinkedIn platform, you're not expecting sound to come out. And so it's like ease of entry, just text-based content. People take it seriously. Can't lie. It's like it looks like a shitty Windows 95 computer because the shell of it sucks. Okay. All right. You can be I've just written down all these reasons. This is pretty pretty good. So you did have a caveat that was don't go on LinkedIn unless you're selling an expensive product. How much are we talking? Like is it two grand three grand two grand? It's best for like any type of like coach or a services-based company. Great. Like you can go on LinkedIn. I've had physios in our program going on LinkedIn. That actually works. It works pretty well. It's just going to be something you sell for an expensive like service. So imagine that your thing might be like a thousand dollars or five or twenty grand or a lifetime value. You know, physio might charge two hundred dollars a session, but a client is like four grand. Yeah. So it's it's people who are using something expensive. So if I'm selling any e-commerce like it's not the right platform for that. For sure. Yeah. That makes sense. Okay. All right. I don't know. We could probably end the podcast there. You just convinced me. No. Okay. I think this is really good. And for anyone listening who is more of a B2B service, I think the challenge that a lot of creatives have is a lot of the time they're not speaking to the decision maker. And is LinkedIn going to help them if they can get a presence on their air? Is that going to help them to connect with more of the decision makers? Yeah. You can just like LinkedIn's great because few reasons. One is most of the DMs on their sock. Yeah. So you probably have an up your LinkedIn and you've got 20 DMs from people and they're woeful. Yeah. Like their VA companies like all this shit. So because there's so many shit DMs being sent. If you just be a regular human and you DM someone, they'll just reply to you. Yeah. Like so I'd I DM the CEO of Zoom. I used to work. I was like and he just responded. That's pretty good. Because like because like he just that's full of shit and then they look just look for one human being DM. But if we go to say this Instagram, it's like I'm flakken. I don't know what's going on. There's so much stuff here. And animations and everything. There's also my friends in there. It's kind of weird as well at the same time when LinkedIn's very kind of serious. And so I've like cold DMs like Christo. Yeah. Who else I called him the guy from who I once convert get he got back to me. Amazing. Like a whole bunch of people. I just DM them in a good DM. And so they don't really like look at that inbox. And because that's mostly full of shit, it's not being invaded. But Instagram like it's full of like when someone DMs you on Instagram and then your connection it goes into that like other bucket. And a lot of people don't really read that with LinkedIn if I fire off a connection request to someone and I personalize it like Frank Grief the way I met him was I just called DM them on LinkedIn. And in the note of the connection request, he sees what I said. And so there's no if you send something really good, chance is someone getting back to you is like really high. Okay. Cool. So I really want to talk to you about specifically client acquisition on LinkedIn because that's your jam. For the sake of this, let's assume anyone listening here is like cool Matt. I'm interested. I want to get on LinkedIn or I want to do better on LinkedIn than what I'm currently doing. Yeah. But let's say I'm like cool. I want to do this and my primary objective is to acquire clients. It's not necessarily to build a personal brand that can be like runoff objective. But my primary goal is I just want to land clients premium clients, right? Can you give an example of a business or a couple and then all kind of so an example of a business in my world would be a designer that works with not for profits. Cool. Is that giving a good buy? So I'm going to give you this. So you mentioned that there are kind of three big things that we have to get right in order to to nail Alington. Yeah. So there's so if we run the three big things, number one is your positioning. Number two is then the content and then number three is your dance. So they're kind of the three things that actually matter. Your positioning, which you obviously teach all these things. And from Instagram to LinkedIn, it's all the same. It's just a different mechanism. But these are kind of the three things that like really matter when you're reaching out. So your positioning is just like clearly communicating what you do to someone. And I've worked with Craves before you've seen experience this. I think creatives have the issue where they're trying to be too creative, but not not not literal enough. So someone doesn't actually know what they do. So examples just telling you before. So my barista like I'm been working with her and she's wanting she wanted to start an Instagram of like she's Korean and she's done hair and bridal makeup in Korea and she's come to Sydney. She doesn't have a network and she wants to start doing it. And so I've been helping her like DM scripting and stuff like that. Just when I go in, it's quite fun. And then she showed me Instagram this morning. And all Instagram said was like inquiries open July to December whatever. And I was like, I don't even know what you do. And so what we did is we essentially we wrote like her Instagram thing. It was like we put together with two kind of flags. I don't really know how to draw the Korean or the Australian flag. But it's pretend it's the Korean flag and the Australian flag. And then we just wrote Korean Korean. I think it was our bridal plus hair plus hair. And then we just wrote Sydney based. And this is in her name. Yeah. And so that's that kind of name. Same as LinkedIn. Yes. So beautiful. It's so I'm so over my terrible drawing, but it's so literal that someone knows exactly what you do, but you don't wanna say I help XYZ, because that's talking about what you do. You wanna talk about what they do and what they want. So like what they're looking for, if I'm a Korean, like person gets engaged and I want to care and make up done, well I'm looking for, I want someone in Australia in Sydney who is Korean, who understands the culture, and then she can also write it in like something in Korean to show that she is, and then DM me bride for Tabochat. It's just so literal, so the positioning matters so much. And I think most people just get the positioning wrong in the first place where, you know, if people have built their business off a lot of referrals, then what happens is that they usually are not that good at marketing, because their marketing is they've had to talk to someone and they get to know them and they're like, "I really like you." And so that's a different form of marketing, but content marketing is like, it's a different thing. You're trying to capture the attention of people to get to the point where they can talk to you to see that they like you. - 100%. - So like that. And so I find that's like a missing gap as well. - Just that even that, I can already think of so many creatives who are being cute and creative and not clear. - Yes, yes. - And it's just like this is exactly what I do. This is who I help. In the bio, this is so tactical, but I'm hoping this is fine. In the bio, how much proof do you think is important? Like I helped X, you mentioned you don't like the I help statement. Is there like something else that we can do to give proof of helped X amount of pride? - Yes, you're just right. Like what's the proof? Like I would just think what's the proof that the person would want to see. - Yeah. - Which is just 300 plus hair's done. - Yeah. - It's just like what's the, because some people don't have like proof. - Yes. - But other people do. So you just want to say like what is, like of this ideal client, like what is the proof that they would want to see. So for me, I'm on LinkedIn, I'd probably say coach 2000 founders, clients generate $172 million a year. Well, that's like the proof. - Love it. - So it's just like, you just need something where, you know, but you also don't even have to like have that there. You're really looking like the way that LinkedIn is structured is that there's kind of like a, there's the top bit, which is your banner, which is up here. - Yeah. - Now you got like a banner up here. And so you put something on the banner, and then you've got like your photo here. And then underneath you've got what's called your headline. And so your headline is where you put the Korean thing here. But your banner is also secondary. So I think about it like a YouTube. So you've got YouTube, you've got your, your thumbnail and your title. And so you're kind of like, you can do these kind of simpatico. And so one of my absolutely best clients, she has 2100 followers, she's a mum minimum 45K clients a year. She finishes at 3pm every day. And she gets like 20 leads at post, with 20 like posts, right? Her actual banner is a cotton farm. - Right. - Because she sells to rural agricultural businesses. So like she, you back, she backs up like, she says what she does, but a lot of stuff is pre-verbal. It's like brand is pre-verbal. Like, and so recognition is like, I can show you kind of the positioning recognition. That is like the most important. Like you doing a selfie at the conference, her at the agriculture conference is worth way more than the best hook or best design ever. Because someone's like, you're in my world. You literally live in my world. So you're trying to like, with her, like it's just, she's just trying to show recognition. She's trying to show you that like, and I was like, your bio photo on, on should be you doing someone's makeup and then smiley. Like the experience of like, what's happening? Because I think a lot of creatives that I've worked with, there's just no recognition. Like there's no one, they're trying to be like, this is like my amazing finished product or whatever. But someone's looking like, what is the thing that, like I don't even know, that's what I want. It's just so far gone. - It gets a bit vague. And it's almost like this is a landing page where we go, okay cool, I've got a couple of seconds to get someone's attention. And I need to make sure that I'm giving them all the information they need in order to make a decision. And your Instagram bio would have the same principles. - It's all the same, it's very, very similar. I just, I see it as this recognition. You're trying to recognize immediately there from your work. So an example of recognition is, you've been to Northern beaches in Sydney. So my parents are a new pool. So when I say my parents, I don't wear shoes to the beach. And I go to the cafe with no shoes on. And so that's normal. For a lot of other places, that's like totally weird. - Yeah, that's normal in Newcastle too. - Yeah, true, for sure. Newcastle as well. But if I went to the breakfast with everything, Northern beaches, tan, shorts, whatever, but I wore loafers, immediate recognition gone. There's like something that breaks there. So you're trying to create recognition that makes sense. Like you need to show that you're inside that world. - Yes. - Of like, you live in that world. And so, and if you understand that world, then they will immediately trust you more. - Yeah, yeah, that makes so much sense. - Okay, so the positioning piece is, is how we're actually communicating. I also like that part of this, like you mentioned the banner and the photo. Those are nonverbal, that's visual communication. And that is people compute that much quicker than words. So I love that you're being really specific on that. So in terms of the positioning on LinkedIn, is there anything, are there any pitfalls or mistakes that people make aside from being vague? - I'll just, I'll give you like just the formula, 'cause we, yeah, we're coaches, we think in frameworks. And so, like, I'll give you the framework that I use for it. It just makes it easier, 'cause I can just give examples. And so, cool. - Actually, there's four types of tribes that actually exist, and hopefully those circles. So, when I'm thinking about like positioning, I'm actually thinking about marketing to a tribe. So I've thought about this like a lot. And I'm gonna write another book on this. Like marketing to tribes, but when you're marketing like what really matters is that you're speaking the language of the person you're marketing to, everyone has different languages. And there's different types of tribes that you can market to. So the first one is a tribe that you select. So like a tribe that you select is like you decided to be part of that tribe. So I do crossfit. I selected to be a part of that tribe. And so because of that, I have certain items in my bag. And certain experiences that I have. And I have like these things on my hands, because that's a crossfit of thing. And so like there's certain experiences in my life that I select. And so selecting your tribe is one thing. And so like you've selected to be part of the creatives tribe. - Yes. - That is your tribe, you know, and that's like this looks very creative. And so creatives would, they would see this and be like, I would resonate based on the tribe. And so there's the tribes that you select. There's also a tribe which is a circumstance. So circumstance tribe is like, I married my wife and she's Indian. And I just happen to be part of Indian culture now. - Yeah. - It's just circumstance or you become a parent or like. - Yeah. - It is. So circumstances, because of my circumstance, and I am standing a bit of Indian culture, like I know what Chai is. I know what, like, you know, one of the best itchai biscuits are Pali G biscuits. So I know that the subculture within it. - Yes. - There's also what's called a your place tribe. And so this is digital or geographic. - Yeah. - So LinkedIn or Instagram is a place. There's a culture of Instagram. - Yes. - That we can talk Instagram language. There's a culture of Sydney. We can talk about things like you've been to an olive beaches, you understand that. You can also my sister lives there. So I understand that. So there's a place. And then the last one is a tribe. What's called an intimate tribe? So an intimate tribe is like, do you realize it's your partner, small group of friends, all that kind of stuff? And what I've found that works the best on LinkedIn is, and I've done this, I've done like it. I've used my AI agents to like, massive research on it. The people that win have a combination of these tribes that they market to. - Cool. So that's a select the circumstance and the place. - So for example, the friend of mine that she, Korean Australian. So Korean tribe. Koreans in Sydney tribe. Hair and makeup getting married circumstance. So she's got circumstance, place and place as well. - Yes, she's got two places. - So she's got, and so it's actually a combination of these tribes that overlap. - Yes. - And then the worst markets that you can gaffed are, the worst like I've done in these scoring on so many people are just SMV marketing agencies. - Yeah. - Coaches for coaches and mindset coaches. They're the worst niches. Like ever. - Wait, so they're the worst? - Because they have no tribe. Because there's no tribe associated with them. - Interesting. - So there's, so no one, so if you go to a crowd of a thousand people. - Yeah. - How do you know who's an online coach? There's, for a frontline coach, there's no initiation for me for someone to get into it. - Mm-hmm. - It's not hard to get into it. - There's no like certification or something. - Nothing. - And so something dip in and dip out. - Yes. - If someone wants to become like a, a soccer like, I think about brain breaking. - Yeah. - So if you want, if you want to do CrossFit. - Yes. - There's initiation. So you're hands-in-ear fucked up. You know the types of workouts you've done. - People are gonna think you're gonna cult. - 100%. Yeah. So it's like very close to cult. It's cult and cult. - No, that's really good. So I'm curious about the worst niches. Because it's because they're not identifiable. - Because, it's because the way that niches work. - Yeah. - Is that when you're creating the marketing, each of these niches have a language and objects that they use. - Yes. - So, in life. niche where you select. So if I select CrossFit as a niche that I'm going to go after. I know that I'm going to have things in my bag. I'm going to go certain classes. I know what a box is, what we call a gym. It's called a box. And so there's a language that's-- It's like inside a language. Yeah. Inside a language and inside a culture. And so when you do that, you can't fake it. And so pre-verbory people immediately recognize what it is because it's another language. And so it's the same for we could talk like new castle if I just mentioned how I went for a run all the way up to the pier. And it was amazing because it was super flat. And then when I got there, there was heaps of other runners. And then if I spoke about how I went to the pool after it-- You went to the ocean, Maryweather Ocean Guards, or whatever. So I can't fake that. And so because of that, then you would understand recognition. And so if a photo of new castle came up, you would look at it because you're part of that. You recognize it. I recognize it. So you're looking for recognition. So there's objects and language that people have. So like a place, Sydney, Northern beaches, no shoes going to breakfast is recognizable thing. Different people in different locations. And you dress differently. Fisher. And so if your niche isn't actually a tribe, online marketing, I've found from my clients over 2000. It's impossible for it to work. It can't actually work. Content can't work. So then if you mentioned a mindset coach, coach is coaching coaches. Yeah. Yeah, coaches coach coach. Yeah. And then what's the third one? It was just a small medium business marketing agent. Oh, yeah. OK. Cool. So with those people, how do they drill this down more so that they can have a niche that works? Like do they have to-- I guess they just have to drill into a place, a select, a circumstance? Yes. And a lot of the time, it's really difficult. If a business has grown off referrals, it means that like when you're marketing for content, you're trying to attract people too. So they recognize your stuff and they think, holy shit, that's for me. I want to talk to Laura. But like what happens is they're not-- they're none of that exists. And so when you meet someone through a referral, you've already passed the bullshit test. Fisher. Yeah. And you're not necessarily choosing them. It's just, well, Barry-- I really like to work with Barry and Barry's recommended Joe. And now I'm hanging out with Joe. And so all they're going to do is you're getting on a call, you're going to do the widow test. Yeah. With the person they're going to deal with you. And then one call call it. So you send a proposal. Totally. When you're doing acquisition from other means, you have to have multiple-- sometimes multiple calls and stuff like that to build all our trust. For sure. But like let's say if I'm a mindset coach, cool. So let's say mindset coach, right? What culture are they in? So what could it take? What-- who someone who needs mindset coaching, humanity? Yeah, everybody. Every single person in the whole entire world. So what makes someone identify? So a mindset coach will talk about the inner workings of your mind and what's happening. It relates to everyone. But because of that, no one thinks holy shit that's me. And when you're a mindset coach, the person you're competing against is Steven Bartlett. That's your actual competition because he will get someone on there and is on his podcast, who's a mindset coach, who's the best in the world. And so you are directly competing with that person. But if you're a mindset coach for CrossFit dads on the Northern beaches, who are they going to listen to? Steven Bartlett or you? They are merely going to think that you can help them more, even if you don't actually know more, because they're like, you recognize my world. Yeah, and it's like people, people. It's the Seth Goden thing of like, people like us do things like this. So it's like, cool. If you're a CrossFit dad, you live on the Northern beaches, and it's called that ticks a few of the pieces that relate to me. Yeah, that makes sense. So I guess it's also like the mindset coaching example makes a lot of sense for health coaches, for example, because every single person could use a health coach. But it's like-- It's like, you should pick like I'm like, I have a client, and I'm just getting her to specify. And I'm like, she's niche down to executives in Fortune 500 companies in the US. Perfect. It's good because there's actual culture. And she texted me yesterday, and she's like, Matt, I wrote a post where I talked about someone having the workout gear hanging up in their lounge room or something like that, because she got that from a client's call, and someone's like, that was literally me. Holy shit, that's me. Because that was the feeling. And even the specific type of workout gear. And it's like, so in Australia, Lula Lemon, right? So you don't say workout pants. You say Lula Lemon shorts, and every guy knows what that means. They've all shown pairs of them, like as well. And so the brands and the things carry meaning in each try. And so, but when you select multiple tribes and you cross them together, then you have a message where if I just say, like, I'll use a client of ours who's a career coach to Indian IT workers. And so if I say, what's our Gira tickets, Chi, Hulley G, Biscuits, that is exactly what that person. So I just have to say this for words. Which word carries so much meaning. And it will say, if I say seek as well, the career plan. I say five words. I don't even need to write content. Preverble, they've already tick these things off. Because those words have a lot of meaning inside them. Yeah. That makes so much sense. OK, that's such a cool way to think about niche. I really, really, really love that. So we've got positioning. Yes. Second piece is content. Yes. What's interesting is you came into training with our next level club members in October, which was amazing. And it was so funny because I'd had people for months being like, Laura, let's do a LinkedIn training. And again, I was like, I don't do LinkedIn. I feel like big bird on LinkedIn. That's how I feel. And so I was like, great. Well, obviously, I needed to get you. And it was so funny because when you were talking about the content strategy, I was like, looking at my clients, being like, this is the same. I've been teaching you the set, like the contrarian view of like having a hot take, having a perspective. I'm like, bra. I've been teaching you guys this for so long. So I think what's really interesting is that the content format is different. And we can speak to that. But the strategy is the same. And so thinking about LinkedIn specifically, what do you think people need to know about the format to get results there? So we'll just go with like, we'll just do text-based to start off. Yeah. Love. Like you and I would probably both agree with this, right? Don't even bother doing content unless you write great hooks. Yeah. Like it's just, you don't even need the content to be good for a hook. Yeah. To be good. And so I've come up with like a, I've actually created like a matte GBT, which helps to like create hooks as well. So I've come up with like, I find the easiest way to show people is through metaphors. Yes. Visual metaphors. So I like to think about a hook like a movie preview. So you know how you go to hoids and like you're sitting down and like, I always get excited for movie previews. Because I want to see what's coming up. And then the movie preview comes up and there's like the actors in there. There's the stakes. There's the story of what's happening as well. Yeah. Like, and so like when I'm creating a hook, I like to think about as a movie preview. So like when I'm thinking about the, the start of it, it's first, it's like kind of like the setting plus the cast. So the first thing in a hook is like when you're creating it, you're trying to think, what are the brands or the other individuals that I'm going to quote in the hook? And so if I'm going to create a hook right now, I'll say our Claude 4.6 because a lot of people know what Claude 4.6 is. And so they already have a thought for that. So I'm going to put like a setting in cast. So I'm going to put notable people or like notable brands like in the hook, because then I leverage their people and interest in them, which is really okay. So setting in cast, there's four parts to it. There's also the story. So when you're watching like the movie, you're kind of seeing what kind of type of movie it is. Is it a thrill? Is it this? You're seeing the story like having on the screen. Is it a romance or whatever? So in the hook, which is on LinkedIn, the first two lines, you need to give them communicate enough so they know what to expect when they read the next bit. So they have an expectation line. So the story we might say that this is going to be like a thriller, right? Something like that. So this is going to be the story that they're going to have. Yeah. Yeah. The next part is we need what's called the conflict. So like conflict when you're watching a movie preview is like, why do I want to learn? It was a problem. I'm expecting to see this, but like what's the conflict that's like actually occurring? So like in a hook, you can do a juxtaposition. So one I'm putting out later today is like how I use Claude code to build my entire business while walking my dog Teddy. It's like, what the fuck? Like it's like, so you know what you're going to expect when you see it, but you're trying to create some conflict of like what's going to be there? And there's a bit of unexpected or like there's a bit of tension in that because it's like I'm doing this thing and I'm also doing this really ordinary normal thing walking my dog. I think even better than that, it's probably like I would call it, um, we'll just call it an open loop. Yeah, love it. Yeah, it's just like you're trying to open multiple loops like for them to want to know more of what's going on. So conflict like a post that I wrote a while ago was like, uh, on Saturday, it was my brother's wedding. Um, I did the best man's speech and I was absolutely my shooting myself. You won't believe what happened. Cool. So it's like I'm using the the brand and set and setting of like a wedding and a best man's speech. So everyone knows what that is. Yes. And so then they're like, but I was shooting myself because I did and they're like, you know, I mean, and so then yeah, I love into it. I love it. That was my favorite post I ever wrote. Okay. I love. And then the last. you need the director's cut. - I love a director's cut. - The director's cut is your opinion. - Yeah. - In it. So the reason why I add this is because with AI right now, you can get anything, but you can't get your opinion. - Yes. - Which is really keen. So the director's cut is, have you seen the Justice League movie? - No, I haven't. - So Justice League movie, my wife's super into comics with her brother. We were super excited to see it. It's sort of the movie, it sucked. It's terrible. But then they brought out the version which was another guy, the guy who directed at the director's cut. It was all in black and white, amazing. Such a good movie. And so your opinion like, is the unique thing, it's the director, how they put it together. So in every hook I've found on LinkedIn, which works really well, just imagine the hook is the first two lines that people see. - Beautiful. - And this is just say written hook. So we'll say one line, one line. Before someone gets to read two lines and before they can actually read the rest, they need to click the dot, dot, dot more button. And so your whole goal on LinkedIn is just, so get someone to click that. - Love. - No comment, no like, no nothing. Just click that button. And so this is kind of how you would frame a hook. So, but when we think about tribes, we think set and setting okay, like if I think CrossFit, okay, what is set and setting? So if I said Matt Fraser, he's a really notable CrossFit or I said, tear clear to me. And I said, Rue Grips. And I said, if I said Matt Fraser's, if I used a hook, we've just got off the call with CrossFit HQ, Matt Fraser's coming back into the CrossFit games. Awesome to go about that, right? - Right. - Yeah. - People need to be like, like tension, open loop. And here's what I think about it. - But that means nothing to me because I'm not a CrossFit. And that's the magic of it. - That's the point. - Yeah, I love that. - You want to include and exclude people. Like the classic thing of like, your mom should know what you do is bad because algorithms nowadays are so good. They just know who the fuck you are. And so they're like, I know you. And so they're going to send it to you. - Yeah. - And then what this does, when you get this formula, you don't even need to be that good at writing content. You just need to get the mixture of the words correct. And the images because people will, they won't care about how good the words are. They'll just be like, well, if, you know, for me, so for my content, if I say, "Claude AI agents are 10 DMs a week." Or something like that. And 10 meetings. That's like, it's all clicking all the things that are like my brand and what I'm communicating to people. And so even if the writing isn't that good, they recognize the brand. So like, it's kind of like, when you're a kid and you go to Woolies and then you'd like line up and then you'd see like the gossip mags. And you're like, in front of them and you're like, "Oh, what a prince Harry if I can do with this?" He's drunk again, you know what I mean? It's like, "What if he's not in the open up?" And like, nothing happens. You're, yeah, you're trying to leverage that to your tribe. Your tribe's celebrities. Cool. Okay. And the thing I will say on this is that, I mean, I love this hook framework. A lot of people are doing these AI hooks that feel like AI. They feel like, "Oh, AI wrote this." But they're not doing those four things that you're talking about. So they're not getting the nuance of the little niche things that my industry will know that my personal understand. So I really like this framework because-- - Inside a language. - Yes, it's really tasty. - It's actually good. And I, 'cause I think a lot of the AI hooks are like deliberately opening a loop in a way that's a little bit naff. Like, it's a bit like, "You won't believe what happened to me." And it's, oh, something like that that just feels a little bit like, "Oh, yeah, yeah, ring." You're gonna start talking about something really boring. Like, it's just, there's the payoff doesn't actually happen. And so I love this because there's, there's a bit of nuance and tension in the hooks. - Yeah, you're trying to like, it's, you really are trying to get the hooks, so you're trying to get the people who you're selling to and that tribe to recognize you in respect to your opinion. So like, for example, I wrote a book the other day where it was like, "I just got off the phone to LinkedIn's internal team." - Cool. - And then, so LinkedIn's internal team, I just got off the phone and it's my opinion, with my story. - Love. - So people are like seeing the story of, "Well, we're gonna hear what happened." And there's an open loop, 'cause like, "I really gotta know." And it's like, "It's Matt's opinion and he's using LinkedIn's internal team." And so it matches my brand perfectly around what I'm doing. And so you're trying to, and you don't really need a lot, you just need like to compact this all into like two lines. Just like, and a really easy way, if someone doesn't like, if you don't have a big brand, like I've got a client, Chester, he's a sleep coach. He doesn't have a big brand at all, but he started working with us and all he does is, he just picks like Alex Homozi or Brian Johnson and he's like, "He just shits on their sleep routines." And he's like, "I'm a sleep scientist, 'cause he is a sleep scientist." - Yeah. - He'll just like use their brand, or he'll use WIP with the WIP scores. And then he'll put that up, then his opinion, he's getting like 10,000 impressions every post. - Yeah. - And his posts are only only did in like this, like 10 lines. - Sweet. - Yeah. - Okay. This, that's so, so cool for content. - Yeah, so I'd say you don't even need to know about writing the rest of the post. If you can nail the hook, like if you get people really invested in the hook, they'll read the rest of it. - They'll read the rest of the thing. Yeah, I love that. Okay. So positioning is solid. We've got the hooks, which is the most important part of the content. Then again, coming back to, if I'm wanting to get acquire clients on LinkedIn, let's talk about the DMs. - Cool. - 'Cause DMs work differently to Instagram. We can't use many chat or much automation. So how are my driving conversations on LinkedIn? - Cool. So it starts with the positioning of like who are the tribes you're reaching out to? - Yep. - The tribes you're reaching out to dictates the content that you make. - Of course. - And you can pass once a week on LinkedIn if you want that's fine. I have to do every day, right? You could just just starting somewhere but that dictates the content that you write. But then when we're talking about like the DMs specifically, what I would probably coach someone to do, 'cause I don't know if like a lot of like time here and stuff, is I would probably say what you should do is you should get LinkedIn sales nav. So LinkedIn sales navigator. It's like, you know that tools Apollo, Lucia and all that kind of stuff? - Yep. - Yeah, they would just scrape LinkedIn's like data. So like they LinkedIn is the source of truth. - Gotcha. - And so LinkedIn sales navigator is what every software company, 'cause I work in sales, where every sales person should be using and so every business owner. So with sales now, what I do is I get it. You can get the first month like free when you sign up. And then if you ask someone else to give you a referral, you can get the next two months 50% off. - Great. - As long as you haven't purchased it before. - Okay. - So if you haven't done that, you get sales nav. And then what you do is you get, so you go to Claude or whatever LLM you wanna do. And so what you do is you paste in like all of your ICP docs, all of your, whatever your sales stuff, your sales, I said, it's just all the stuff. You could also set up a Claude or a ChargerBD project. - Beautiful. - And then what you do is then you go to a sales nav in here, and you just screenshot the screen. So you just screenshot the entire screen, multiple screenshots. Paste them into Claude or ChargerBD or whatever it is. And say, can you build my search criteria? - Claude. - So you literally just build the search criteria based off the filters. And you've also got to do another thing called a Boolean search. I don't even even say what it is, because Claude will tell people what it is. The Boolean search is like, you can search the criteria and the filters. Then in the top task bar, you can search financial advisor, wealth manager, wealth planner, wealth. So it uses keywords in a call in search, but see, I can do that. So what you do is, and then you just spend like, you know, you probably spend 30 minutes, you know, if it's the first time, 30 minutes going back and forth, and then just build a list of like the best people to reach out to. And I can show you how to build the list. It's pretty easy. - Yeah. - But just spend 30 minutes to build a list of a couple hundred people who reach out to you. - Yeah. - Like that's super easy. Like, - Amazing. - Yeah. - And then when, so when someone is reaching out to, let's say they've got 50 people on a hit list of like, okay cool, these are the people I want to reach out to. Are they just following a kind of a normal sales process where it's like, there's an opener, and then there's a, hey, I'd love to book a conversation. Is that kind of the simplest way for us to do it on LinkedIn? - It's, I'll give you a, so let's say that's the list. - Yeah. - Let's say like, just building the criteria of who you should reach out to, this is, this is just really key, 'cause most people already have a lot of contacts. They just don't contact the right people. - Gotcha. - So like, first priority on LinkedIn is your first degree connections. - Yeah. - So they've, people already connected to it. - Yeah. - Well, if people already connected to people, they just forgot. It's really key. So just reaching out to your first degree connections first, then what you want to do is really simple, right? Is you just find the clones of your best clients. So what I would do is the process above when you're building a list, you can just put in your best client, which might be a vet in our time. - Yep. - And then you just literally just paste this is the vet in our time and I want to find all the other vets in our time. - Love that. - And then so all you got to do is, the process is, you first, your first degrees, all the clones, super simple, and then you won't be connected with them. So imagine we've, we've just picked clones. Let's pretend it's the vets. So your step one is you build the list of people. You don't need a big list. You just start with 100, 100's fine. And most of your clients, like if they can't take on more than 10, - No, it's back up. - And so just start off, build a list of 150, 10, doesn't matter. And then what I would very first step is I would just connect with the person, don't send a message in the connection list. People freak out about it. Just click the connect button. You'll get a 25 to 50% acceptance rate. In total, depending on sometimes maybe vets don't use the platform and stuff, like that. So you might be a little bit less. But we've linked in if you're kind of ramped up, you can click connect 200 times a week. So you could. So that's why we're being really picky here with the criteria. So because we can only connect with so many people even lastly, like the thing that I teach is the 10 10 1 one post every weekday 10 comments and 10 DMs. Like even that is enough. Like you send farther 10 connections today. That's enough. Most people who do work the craves, they probably have an agency. I don't even hear that me conversations. Like if you find the twins, it's actually really easy. So you just connect with 200. But let's say for this thing, we're not doing 200 like you just like let's just do five a day. That's it. Cool. Just five a day connection, no message. Just hit that button. And then yeah, literally and then step two is literally all you say to them is like, hey, hey, name or hey, name right here. And then you just say, um, and then you hit enter. So the reason you want to hit enter is like, you don't want to send them a massive essay. You know, for instance, text you know, a little bit, a little bit, a little bit. Yeah. Hey, name firing off quick. Yeah. Um, you know, and you could just say, I, I know this may be a bit weird. Love that. So just so and then you hit enter, um, but I just came across your profile and you're really similar to ex client that we helped get result. Yeah. Um, I just have this resource or this thing that I did with them. I just wanted to see if you'd be open to me sharing with you. Love that's it. So that you just go. So I won't write that but you can get it from the thing. Yeah. So then you got next line and next line. And that's it. Cool. And so that's a sub simple. It's not weird. And if you're like in the more specific you being the language. So if I'm going to talk about a CrossFit gym, so if I'm reaching out to a CrossFit gym, hey name and so I know I'll be a little bit weird. Enter. But like I just saw you really similar to like the CrossFit gym I work with B athletic in the city. You might know the guys who own it Paul or Walton. Um, and then I go, um, we help them actually get, um, 60 new members through this like LinkedIn marketing thing that we did for them. And I know that's why we worth $100 a month for you guys. Um, and it was great because it allowed them to hire an extra coach. So Paul didn't have to take as many sessions because I know that's the thing that CrossFit is care about. Um, I've got the actual strategy of what we did. Would you like me to share with you? Love that. So specific. Yeah. Just like when you're sending like a DM, you want to make it feel like a handwritten card. Yes. Like someone like, if someone sends you a, you know, you get a handwritten like my friend Alex for sent me a handwritten letter from US. Yeah. And I fucking I was like, I'm like, handwritten letter. I put it up and you like wrote it on postcard and I like, this is amazing. And it's like, I want them to feel like it's, they make them feel special. So you're like taking the time to write it, adding the detail and like the little nuances that matter. And for your clients as well, that's like probably enough. Yeah. And if you're only doing five a day, that's not a high volume for you to personalize that message. No, but the thing is if you do the clients, you can do the same message wherever I call and now feel like it's for them. Yeah. Yeah. So like we've got a client back and she has really good strong. So she works with rural agricultural businesses in Australia. Right. She sends a template DM with a 90% response rate because the DMs, she's got all the words that they recognize. Yeah. Yeah. So the client you're reaching out, like of course they're going to want to know how you got someone ex-wise as a result. And so you just make sure it's specific enough. So it makes you look like an insider. Yeah. Cool. When you like when you know it. Yeah. So like if you wrote something, if you're marketing people and sitting in bed, I just caught up with my client at this new cafe or whatever or the grant. I would just enter the grounds in the city. I was always, I was always forget you got to get a booking there. We had to wait for 20 minutes or something like that. Yeah. And so it's like, oh, you're like, I know. It's like, yeah, yeah, that's, that makes a lot of sense. Yeah. So like that's from the DMs. That's, that's so good. That's all that someone would need to do like genuinely. And so you could send five a day and you just just increase, just like an hour, just click the button. Yeah. And just like hit connecting, you don't even need content. Yeah. You could do. You don't even need positioning for this because your positioning is in the DM. Cool. Like I've seen people like, you obviously know Steve, my business partner. Yeah. He tested this through his LinkedIn where he has no profile photo, no content, nothing. And he closes a hundred and came through him. Wow. Yeah. Cause you don't actually even need it because if someone gets approved here, it's like a for referral. Yeah. It feels like a for all. So I'd say like, really cool. This is like all that needs to happen. And the reason why this tribal stuff is really key is because like a lot of businesses, if they've like even that people might get stressed, like, do I change my profile to this? But that, even that will stress them out. So even if they just like, well, you don't even have to niche down. Yeah. Just say you work with businesses in Sydney and talk about Sydney content. I wasn't like that. But just in your DMs, like you niche, you say I work with this type of person. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Matt, this is so good. I feel like you've just, this has just been a master class. I'm how to do LinkedIn. Okay. So to recap, we've got, we start with the positioning. Yeah. We move into the content. Yeah. And then we move into the DMs. If someone's wanting to get started on LinkedIn or just really wanting to use LinkedIn this week, what would be like the simplest action for them to get started? Like the easiest one of all of these, like I can give you some resources as well. Like I can give you a resource input in the description. But I would say just buy sales and have her and do this now is gathering sales navigator and just do this. Just do the DMs. Don't even change your profile. Don't do anything about the profile. No, you like think about this like logically. Like just like I always like to zoom out and take a bigger picture. Let's take recruiters. Right. recruiters. I remember I looked up as like tens of billions of dollars they do every year on LinkedIn. Yeah. I was contented. They post zero. That post ever. You don't need content to get clients. It helps. But it's not a requirement. It's not like, you know, and there's a lot of like, when I was in sales, everybody just deemed and like all the VCs closed deals and they don't really use content content and brand makes it much easier to talk. It opens up more conversations. It's not a requirement for the conversation to have to occur. If you're specific enough and you just reach out to someone that's like a nine. I think what's interesting is that I think in business because the medium changes around content or marketing or how we sell, I think people forget that the principles remain the same principles of selling remain the same. If you sell and you're doing door to door sales, you don't have any content. Like there's no rapport. The rapport must be built as soon as you like they open the door. Like when I was selling coffee and trying to get cafes to like sign on to use our coffee. That would have been hard. It was really freaking hard. And I was terrible I was terrible at it. But it was really hard because yes, you have the brand, but you're trying to get them to move away from the current supply that they have onto yours. And I just learned very quickly okay, I've got to build rapport very quickly. I've got to build a connection really quickly. Hey, we actually supply coffee for this place around the corner. They're absolutely crushing it. They're way busier than you are. Of course, I wouldn't say that, but they know that they're way busier than them. And so it's like I think sometimes we freak out and get overwhelmed that oh, LinkedIn is different to Instagram or selling in the DMs is different to selling on a call or selling on stage. And it's like, yeah, there's nuance in this format differences. But the principles are still the exact same. And I feel like that's just if people would, if they actually just stopped overthinking it and just went okay, just gonna have a conversation with someone and see what happens. And I'm gonna use best practice to make sure the hooks in my content are good. Make sure the opening line of my DM is good. And I'm gonna experiment with that and not try to get it perfect on day one. I think one thing to like just also write just because like you work with creatives, right? And I would consider myself a creative, just not in that sense, but I'm very creative person. Yes. And what we like to do is we like to create. Yes. Like we don't like to do things. But when we talk about marketing in sales, it should essentially feel boring. That's like when you're doing this every day inside of that and it feels too simple, it feels dumb, but it should actually just feel boring. Yeah. Like when you're doing it, like I'm bored and I'm doing it. Like that's the feeling of what it should be. And so from someone who comes from who's a more creative type of thing, but like I want to innovate and I want to see, yeah, I want to be exciting and what it is like, it's actually like really simple. Like it's just like feeling boring and just doing it. And what's interesting is I know if you, obviously, but I know you and your business, you're creating all the time, but it's interesting that you're marketing in sales. You're like, if this feels boring, I'm doing it right. Every time I want to switch, I've switched, I've been able to say switching my marketing sales time, I always lose money. Yeah. Always interesting. Always. I do it all the time because I'm like, I want to get creative. Every time I just do the same thing and stick to it, it's great. And then I do it myself. So I'm like, I'm like, I experience this. Uh-huh. 100%. Yeah. I get that. Okay. Matt, this has been amazing. This has been like a masterclass. I'm like, did I just, I love this. Now, I know that you've got a resource that you want people to check out. Talk to us about the resource because I think this is really going to be helpful for what we've just talked about. Yeah. Cool. So I built like a niche scoring mechanism. So what it does is I've worked with 2000 clients and we have data from views and leads. LinkedIn doesn't have data from leads. They don't have both sides going. So likes don't actually equal leads. It's actually just to do with honestly your tribes and how deep in rich the tribes are. And so I built a niche scoring mechanism where it scores your niche out of 1,000. - Cool. - So the way I built it was I sent many AI agents a lot of research looking at all the clients, looking at scientific research, psychology, all different disciplines, behavior of economics, and actually created a niche scoring mechanism. It's about 150,000 words. You take it and then you put it into like a project. It's a skill file and you put in your niche and all your docs and it scores you out of 1,000. And then it actually shows you how you can improve it to increase the thing and it also shows you how to write different hooks, DMs like everything. - Cool. - Just put it all together. So that's probably the most useful thing. - 100%. Are you showing me this? And it's insane. - Yeah, it's pretty crazy. - It's very crazy. It's very cool. So what we're gonna do is we're gonna link that in the show notes so that people can download it and get access to that. Where can people connect with you? I know that LinkedIn is probably the last. - Probably LinkedIn. Probably LinkedIn. I don't know if I've ever applied to any messages. I kind of just blacked myself up. But yeah, so we also just recently released our LinkedIn DMsastel. - And this is insane. You showed me this and I was like, "Oh my gosh, it's so cool." - Can I talk about that? - Yeah, so I'm pretty excited. So I booked 5,000 calls in the DMs myself. I don't do any sales calls now 'cause I was like, I don't know anymore. But we've helped clients book tens of thousands of calls. And so we have the IP and my business partner is the tech guy and so we built our own DM, LinkedIn DMsast. But you can do things like it's not a regular DM tool. It doesn't have automation built into it 'cause that breaks the terms of service. But what it can do is you can plug it into your cloud or your chat GPT and you can literally just ask, "Hey, can you please find all the recruiters in my DMs that I've been chatting to over the past year?" And I'm gonna be hosting an in-person dinner for recruiters 'cause I'm gonna be in Sydney next month. So can you find all the recruiters 50 of them and then personalize a message to all of them based off the entire conversation that I've had sending them an invite to the dinner. And what it will do is find them, find the 50 and put the message in the drafts. So all you gotta do is you just have the 50 messages, you look at the person, you read the draft, it's it. So it's like, it can actually do that, which is and it's built off our IP. So like me teaching this DM opener, that will be in there plus like dozens more. So everything that's actually worked for our clients, I plugged it into like our AI brain, which talks to the DMs. So it's data that we now actually works. - Cool, amazing. So it's called LinkedIn, I'm also gonna link that in the show. So people can check it out. Matt, you are a wizard. Thank you so much for hanging in. - This is fun. - This has been fun. I feel like I just, I got a masterclass in LinkedIn. This has been incredible. So thank you so much. - Thanks, having a good show.