How to Use Branding Effectively with Tej Lalvani

Hey everybody, Adam's dot here. Thanks for checking out my podcast Business Growth secrets. You're absolutely in the right place. This podcast is going to reveal to you all of the secrets that you've been looking to discover. They're going to allow you to cure your cash flow problems, attain more clients, bring in more leads for your business and create systems and processes that give you the growth that you want. You are going to discover the Business Growth secrets you have been looking for that I've used to sell over £50 million worth of products and services on social media and help clients everywhere to grow their businesses on the market. So let's get started on the Business Growth secrets podcast. Hello everybody and welcome to this super special episode of Business Growth secrets. I'm really, really, really excited today because we've got a guest on that I think is going to add some massive, massive value to it for you. Well known for his role on Dragon's Den, Teja Lavani has built his own companies as well as investing in multiple other companies and is an expert on Business Growth. So I'm really honored to have Teja on the show. I can't wait to uncover some of the story and get to know you better and understand what your journey's been but just want to say first of all thanks for coming on and welcome to the show stage. How you doing buddy? You all right. Yeah great thanks. Thanks a lot for having me on. It's a pleasure to be here and you look forward to getting into it. Absolutely. So what I'd like to do to you really get the audience to understand. Obviously we've got a big listener base of businesses that are growing. And obviously as one of the UK's most prominent businessmen, you've had an amazing rise to success. And obviously your company, Viter Bosch, who's been amazingly successful, then your role on Dragon's Den. So I really want to try and understand if we can from the very beginning. How did that start off? How does somebody go and create a business in that matter than going to have all the success? I'm sure it's been a few ups and downs as it always is. But where did you kind of business journey start from? The first question I wanted to jump into if we can. Sure, you know, when I was quite young. I mean fortunately I was surrounded by family members, uncles, aunts, people who had set up their own businesses and been entrepreneurs. So that was great to have that exposure. As a kid I was always interested in business, you know, from even selling computer games and schools and getting friends to sell it for me and be a half of that. So I enjoyed that aspect about it. My father's a scientist set up Viter Bosch in 1970, one that really came up with the true multipotent formulations back then. And so it was always something I really wanted to do and join and help his mission. And of course back then it was extremely difficult for them to understand what vitamins were and the benefits for them. So it was challenging trying to convince and explain to people what it was. So, you know, I was involved with the business at a young age just helping out and then a lot more when, you know, just previous to university at the time. And then got involved in various departments of the business and really helped involve growing the business in the UK and then more internationally as well afterwards. Absolutely brilliant. And is how was that entering the bit like the thing that I picked up from from what you just mentioned is it can be quite difficult to build a business when you have to convince the consumer base that they need the product, right? You know, it sums up a bit easier to build a business when someone knows and they're hungry and thirsty for the products. But how did you go about building that in? That sounds like that was a consideration, you know, for you. I've been doing more. Especially my father. How did you bring that in? What was the kind of methodology that you went about showing people that, hey, you do need this product. So, I think it's a really important thing. Yeah. That's a great question Adam. And, you know, at the time, obviously we didn't have much money or resources. So, we'd want to make the brand speak for themselves. So, creating brand names like osteo care, pregnant care, you know, well man, things that really spoke about what the product was on shelves. The customers would see that as a solution to an issue. And then obviously there was research that we would try and get out there about what vitamins did. You know, then it came a point where we went to approach the larger retail chains like boots, for instance. We talked about menopays of vitamins from menopause. And they were almost perfect. And they were like, you know, vitamins from menopause. Well, would you want that? You know, it could sell a couple of hundred thousand, come back and then we'll talk. So, that's exactly what we did. So, the product came back and said, well, put your money away and mouth it. It was a listing. So, they did. And so, it was literally, you know, a slow process of trying to convince people, get the message out there. People bought our products. They realized the benefits that come back and buy more, talk about it, work them out. And then it was the advertising that we did was was quite, you know, bold advertising, talking about the products, you know, in the underground, the buses that give us good visibility as to what it was. And we sort of created solutions around that and effective products. To us, the formulations were key. The fact that they did work in one of the very few companies, vitamin companies in the world that do clinical research behind the effectiveness of the product to make sure it actually does work. So, that's a really, we've combined lots of different elements. I mean, was that something to you as an individual that was natural? Because I feel from having studied branding, that that what you just explained there was a massive business growth secret in yourself. Did you get that instinctively? Did you learn that? Was that something that you tested? You saw what and adopted because like, well, man, it's a brand, really well-known brand. That's what it says on the tin, which obviously helps. How did you get that? Is that something that kind of naturally to you or something to you? So, it's initially, the brand names originally were created by my father. He came up with some of the names which made complete sense because a lot of the time you get products which don't really tell you what the product does. And he when he got this few seconds to convince a customer to engage with you. So, on the basis of that, then, you know, I started coming up with the names and then similar to that. I mean, used that as a strategy. And also, even on the advertising, you make sure our logo was large because the brand name would communicate what the product was anyway. So, you might as well have a big and people understood it. One thing we did, which was different to a lot of the other competitors out there, like Centrum or Seven Seas, was that we created individual brands for different categories versus a centrum pregnancy or a centrum men. So, we wanted to be the expert within that industry. Of course, that meant, you know, more pulling our resources because we had to put money into different brands versus just a bi-tobiotics product. But I think it built us credibility in that particular category to create ownership and a leadership in that segment as the experts within that section. So, did you compete against yourself then? Almost. We have brands in different categories, so like a joint supplement, a brain supplement, things like that. So, we would identify certain categories where we think nutrition would play a role in certain organs and functioning more optimum and accordingly create a brand round it and build that category really physically because a lot of it didn't exist and we were one of the first to have a men supplement and a women supplement. And it makes logical sense now because women's physiology are different from men's and the nutritional needs are different as well. So, on that瞇, we further segmented it to a 50 plus, but a men, you know, a 70 plus, a different age groups, you have different requirements of high-end, for instance, or pregnancy. So, we know that scientific research and put together formulations and creativity. That's right. It's essentially, didn't you, then, obviously. Yeah. In fact, pretty good lines, like new verticals to grow. That's, you know, amazing. Absolutely. And even the brand that you told me a moment ago, when we came on, you're mentioning about SuperDog. Sure. Yeah. That's what I said, it's in there, right? Yeah. You know, fantastic. The branding really works. And you mentioned, Mark, and obviously, you are now from my understanding, certainly the most successful vitamin company in this country, but you're worldwide in a hundred countries now. Is that correct, isn't it? That's right. So, we've grown the business internationally. UK, we are number one as a branded vitamin supplement company, and we've got about 10 brands that are number one in their category, whether it's the calcium supplement or a pregnancy supplement, et cetera. And like in pregnancy, we've created different stages. So, the full pregnancy conception during and after. And within these products, we do some clinical trials that have pregnancy supplement has been shown to double the chance of getting pregnant. And today, within fertility is a big issue. You know, it's amazing that nutrition can play such an important part in terms of making your organs function in a better way. To get pregnant. So, and I think what it is is, you know, again, having the different brands was challenging to try and create, you know, separately. You have a certain amount of money. How do you position it and where do you position it? But what kept it interesting was that we have so many different segments. So, how do you target a pregnant customer versus a well-maned customer? So, you really have to start thinking about the customer and, you know, where they're sitting, what they're viewing, you know, what type of messaging looks for them. So, it did keep us on our toes to really have to focus on different types of groups and have different marketing messages for them. And, yes, and of course, not just the that part, the energy that goes into launching multiple brands, doesn't it? Because, yeah, I think there's a massive amount of energy that's currently to go into all of that. So, what was the thought for you when you first became involved in the business, you're working in different departments, you're learning the business. What was like your first hit where you felt, you know, what, this is going to be something? Was there a moment, or was it more just progressive over the whole time, just continually working, continuing focus? Was there a moment where you saw things turn that you thought, hang on, this is going to be, you know, we got something here, do you remember? Yeah. So, will I join the business? I started off in the warehouse basically trying to help out Narragus because it's a small business, you're trying to help out and I really want to understand different departments and work with different people and figure out how we can improve things, grow things. I think the first break happened, well, when we realized we had a distributor in the UK who we were selling the products to and they were dealing with all the natural accounts such as Tesco, Sanskrit, Buddhist, etc. So, at that point, we decided, you know, should we do our own and develop our own team to deal with the retailers? That was a really big step for us at the time and that was sort of a mini milestone where we sort of have everything dealt with the buyers directly, trying to push listings ourselves and really get full control. And then I think the second point was when we really wanted to, our goal was to be number one at the time, seven seas, I think it was double our size and it seemed like such a far away goal to be able to reach and hit that and now we're like, I think 3X or that but that was a real moment when we sort of decided we achieved that and then, you know, subsequently, of different goals internationally and different markets you want to get into and stuff like that. So an amazing story as well. And do you think having that, it's really interesting because I love that, like having that we want to be number one mentality. How important do you think for somebody listening, is that? And for some, as long as you can do the work, you can actually do the work towards it. It's really important. They can be, you know, in corporate strategies, sometimes they talk about North Star. Was that a bit of a sort of a North Star for the business, do you think? Yeah, it was like an overarching sort of goal and ambition we wanted to get but then obviously to achieve that, you really have to break it down and see what do we need to do? Does that mean getting a big number of listings in the store? Does it mean, you know, international expansion? Also, or, you know, in the UK, does it mean, it's focusing on certain brands where we think are going to grow more for their resources in that to be able to get this at a position. So it does, you know, you have to think about how you want to plan it and do it. And at the same time, you get competition. I mean, you know, a lot of the pharmaceutical companies saw vitamins as competition because they spend billions on drugs and, you know, and if you're a nutrition company can show effective results through clinical trials, then that could be a threat. So a lot of the pharmaceutical companies then are buying up bitumen companies and because they were high growth at the time. So pretty much now, nearly most of our big competitors are all owned by pharmaceutical companies, which means that they've got a huge amount of resources to compete against us and try and get market share. And we have to think, you know, how do we, you know, we had, I think it was seven seas that came in with their pregnancy vitamin. And, you know, all of a sudden, what did we do now? Because they were on the pharmaceutical time called Merck. And we're like able to try and protect our market share, you know, focus on that one brand. We did everything we could in the end, managed to fight them off and actually increase our market share. So it's, you know, you've got these different tactics and strategies, especially when you realize someone's got unlimited resources, how do you compete? What other things can you do? So definitely, you know, keeps you on your toes. 100%. Well, so many things to ask. So there's a couple of things I want to ask for the audience. So one of the things that want to ask for the audience is you mentioned competition. And you mentioned seven seas coming in with a similar product to you. Now, having trained many small business owners, one of the things that really affects them in a big way is when people do exactly that. They see product that they've created the successful or a service they've created that's successful. And straight away, they see their competition trying to model it. And it really affects their mindset. I hear it a lot from the people of train, the clients are trained. How did you handle that? Or how did you approach that? Just be interested to know, from your perspective, is somebody over successful? How did you approach that? I think the people are copying you. It definitely means one thing that you're doing something right. And that you clearly have created a market that people consume as one. So that's step one. Step two is that you have to try and constantly innovate and improve your product. And the same goes, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I think that's completely wrong because actually you have to really keep fixing it even though it's not broken. And every single day I'll look at it, can we improve the formulation? Can we improve the marketing message? Can the packaging be changed and improved? Can we, you know, whatever we can do, let's change and improve it and fine tune it. So within a span of a year, you have substantially improved different product to what the competition is doing. So your offering has to be better to the customer so that people keep coming to you because you're innovating at the industry. And it is tough, but I think that's the only way it works. And I try not pay too much attention to my competitors because you can get caught up with it. As soon as you find yourself looking exactly what the competitors are doing and following that you're a step behind. You need to be a step ahead and leave the industry. I love that answer and I think I'll be so helpful for a lot of people, you know, so many people on. They really see that. And the other question that really became apparent is from working all the departments, trying to get to understand, you know, your skills because we would talk a little bit more about your journey from this company to becoming, you know, a TV star. I think that'd be really interesting for the audience. What departments that you worked in resonated with you. It sounds like the branding and marketing specifically, about you sound very much like a strategist, you know, maybe working all those departments, hum, those different skills. But was it something about marketing? Was that the department that, you know, resonated with you or was it a different area? I've just been really interested to know. Yeah, I think there's the three areas. One is that I like bringing efficiencies into areas or simplifying things, cutting out stuff that's long-winded. Number two, I like technology, and three, I like the creativity and design aspect. And that includes the marketing and, you know, branding and things like that. So these are the three areas that interest me in the business and I'll sort of float between between those areas and categories. Lovely. And the other, what areas, is there any areas you're not interested in? You know, there, sounds mad, maybe you don't want to, so that one. But is there something that you go, you know, well, I'll hire great people and I hear it because that being is, or is there something like that for you or would you say? Yeah, I think I gravitate towards this and anything else. I'll get involved with if I need to get involved more like. You know, there's nothing that I really dislike, but it's, you know, I'd rather be doing these areas and get experts in the other areas to help out. Maybe the areas that I do like to get experts there as well, so that, because there's so many different things like even with digital, you've got so many different areas, you know, from like conversion-raised optimization, loyalty schemes, and, you know, so you need experts in different fields and to bring it together. Absolutely. Now that's awesome. So, having grown this business and growing this business route, obviously you've then moved to become very well known on the Dragon's Ven show. What was that like? I mean, was that something that you'd aspire towards that come out of the blue? Is it impacted you? Has it changed anything for you? I mean, I guess you certainly understand the power of TV from a market in respect, I doubt, but, you know, what changed? How did that come about? Be really interested to know, and what was your decision-making process with that, suppose? Sure. Well, it's an interesting story, actually. It did come out of the blue. I was having dinner with a friend of mine at Mando's who under the radio station. So, him and his wife and my wife, Tara, were having dinner, and he said the BBC had contacted them, asking if they knew anyone suitable because they were looking to change dragons. So, and he thought, look, I thought you might be a great person to put forward, what do you think? So, I said, I love the show, it's fantastic, you know, great show, I watch it, but I don't really know if being on TV is something that I'll be comfortable with or something for me, and I don't know about the time, etc. So, I left it as that, little did I know the next morning my wife calls him up and says, you know, that thing you talked about yesterday, I think you should put Taylor's name forward. And he was like, are you sure? I don't think you've seen that king. And she said, well, actually, look, just do it anyway, I'll deal with it. And she was right, you know, I always wanted to work, I always wanted to work with entrepreneurs, and you know, and it's obviously getting over that fear, that boundary about your being on television, being on a public profile, but that's how you do it, you push yourself, and so I thought, okay, maybe there's something you'll try and manage my time around it, and so then I went to a series of screen tests, interviews, and short list of candidates, and eventually the position for dragon. How did you feel when you got it? It was great. I mean, you know, it was quite daunting. I guess the first thing you go into, you know, the set for filming, and you've got seven, eight cameras filming you on national television, and you know, literally everything is shot live in a sense. There's no retakes, it's whatever record is recorded, and it's just edited down. So, but, you know, you get into the zone because you're investing in people and businesses, and then Australia where your focus is on that. But I guess what was interesting, you know, getting involved in businesses and investing in businesses, that was completely outside my own company, because I'm, you know, being in a consumer goods company, so whether it's a services company, or I remember, I think the first business I invested in was, was completely outside my company, so let me just throw myself in. So, it was called Woolcature, a knitting business, and so as soon as she came in with these knitting products and I thought, "That's the last business I'm going to invest in. I have no idea about that industry." I've built it over the end of it. I invested because, you know, as much as the importance of the product, it's also the person, and so Claire, the founder, she really demonstrated her skill and the real, you know, opportunity out there, and I invested, it was a great, great decision and, you know, it's fantastic how the business has grown over the years, so yeah, you have to get outside your comfort zone. And had you invested in businesses before? Was that new to you, or just passively maybe, or, you know, was it something that when you went on, it was your first four reigns, we're almost, obviously, you had a super successful company already, but had you had some other investments, do you work with other business owners prior to that? Yeah, I had very few, not that much. I mean, I was many caught up in my own business, but I did invest in one or two small businesses, and I didn't have much of a hands-on approach. We just removed an update of what was happening, but I just enjoyed business. So for me, it was something I wanted to do and help entrepreneurs, and, you know, having had that experience about, built up over the years, it's something that you can help people advise them, you know, not to make certain mistakes, or this could be a bond direction to go, or, you know, the market would see this, and kind of adding value and opening doors to some of the entrepreneurs that was really good. Absolutely. And the investments, what did you look for? I mean, for some, I'm not necessarily through Dragon's Den, because not everybody's going to end up on Dragon's Den pitch in someone, but there's a lot of people on that might be looking for an investor of some sort. What would you say are the most important things, having been a season investor, through Dragon's Den, made multiple different investments? What would you say you almost would be looking for? What do you look to see? There's certain elements or things. Do you have in your mind a kind of criteria that you're looking to hear? Obviously, we know the person, the person's critical, but is there other things as well? Do you want to see proof of the market? What are the things for you that you're looking for when you were analysing those deals? Well, there are a couple of important things that I look at. Of course, the product is important. Is there a market for the product? I want to understand if there's a proven business model. So it's great to say I've got this idea, and, you know, any amount of money can, if you throw something at it, we'll sell, but it's sustainable, and is it a business model that works? There's a good return investment. Is it scalable? And then you look at the entrepreneur themselves. So for me, it's important to understand a, they're transparent. There's someone I can work with who will also take on some mentorship and advice, and also that they are resourceful, because they should be able to manage the resources effectively, not just with the load of money. Sometimes too much money is too bad. You want to be able to be creative and see how you can utilise the funds to grow. So having that resourcefulness is important, and really understanding their business. So I need to know that they understand all aspects of their business, especially people who start up really have that. Of course, sometimes, you know, they come on and they forget figures and stuff about you. It's nervous. You're there with five dragons on there trying to present it. It can be very nerve-racking. And so you've got to give them the benefit of that, and I guess that's why sometimes I'm licking in the nice dragon and I'm not too mean to them. Like I said to you before we even come on the call, your approach was very calm, very understanding, but still had the right edge and made the right decisions, you know, but it doesn't need to be done in the mean pages, you know. I think we did it really well. I really certainly liked the style. I love that you said that they need, you almost said that they need to be comfortable. They're willing to take on advice. They're willing to take on that leadership, because the reality is that it's a real thing, isn't it? If somebody, you can give them everything. If they're not going to do anything with it, you're going to struggle with it, you know. And I think it's really really key and important. Yeah, one of the skills that I did sort of pick up over the five years was essentially that each season you meet about a hundred plus entrepreneurs, and you have to make decisions or sort of mini-judgments in the sense that are they fulfilling these boxes, which means you've got to ask them questions to sort of get a response from them to understand, is this someone you can work with, etc. So you sort of develop a skill about people and, you know, I think that was quite interesting, which I've never expected would be one of the things I would learn from the show. Absolutely. You know, I've really started making those quicker judgments and getting that right. So on the show, how did I mean, there's obviously a lot to hear about what was one of the investments that you've enjoyed the most, is there one that you've enjoyed the most, particularly, or there's one that you loved, or something that you've really got a lot of value or fulfillment from in any way, you know. Yeah, I mean, one of them was a few I've exited now, but so one of them I invested with the protein shaker bottle called Shakespeare, which was a patented idea, and it's just got a spherical top and base that when you shake it, the protein powder gets, you know, pretty shakers done much quicker, and there's no bit stuff in the ends. So I saw that as a really interesting product and the fact that he had a patent as well. So I invested in that business, but I wasn't happy with the design of the product. I thought it was a very bulky box with a lot of compartments on there, had a flat bottom visually. So I said, "If we need to completely change this, and we need to go about what your real product is about, it's about the spherical top and base, and I want to see a spherical base and the top, and that's what's going to really make your product different, and just keep it simple, just have that as a functionality and cut it to the bones, and people realise what your product is." So it took a year to do that, you know, and eventually launched it, did really well the product in, you know, in the UK, internationally, and eventually the founder decided to buy me out, and, you know, you wanted for ownership, and I did very well, other way, and a huge multiple from that. So I was happy to sell it, and there were a couple of the businesses like Look After My Dills, which, you know, an energy switching company, which was a great, you know, scalable business, saves people, you know, yeah, exactly every year automatically switches you, and that scale very quickly, and eventually got bought up by gold compared at a big multiple. So the world business is an interesting one as well, how that's grown over the pandemic, how it's affected it, and grown. So there's been some really good, you know, really good experiences, and touch wood today, none of the businesses have invested in it, have you folded or, you know, gone into trouble, which is really good. Yeah, so great, great track record with them all, and, you know, sounds like it's been really interesting, and again, Look After Your Bills being a big brand, a big brand name, right now. So, you know, say, you know, it's straight away. So that's incredible. How did it change things for you, yourself personally, being on the show? What was the impact to that life? I mean, you said you were nervous before you, not nervous, the wrong word, but you apprehensive, probably better word, before you went on the show, and then obviously being on it five years, being now very well known, you know, what's that been like, is that, making different views, it created new opportunities, what kind of impacts has that had? A hundred percent, it's created a lot more opportunities for me, you know, those five years is like a 15 year, what you would have gained doing what you were doing. So it's accelerated that, and it's given me access, and you know, you build up a great black book of people, so today if I wanted to call a retailer and say, I need a meeting, I need to get this, you'll have that response. So I think it's an enabler. It's allowed me to help my own business by understanding and having opportunities to meet people in different areas and tech startups, etc. So it's definitely brought a lot of opportunities and, you know, yeah, about getting outside your company zone and doing something that's there. You know, I think in life, there's two things. You've got to make opportunities and take opportunities, because setting it up for stuff, so you do university degree, you're making an opportunity for yourself, and, you know, but then you get job, and as a result, you'll get job offers, so you'll get opportunities coming from it, and then it's about taking it, it's about going for the interview, and what you can do yourself to compete against the other candidates, to do it, you know, like the Dragon's Den, I was one of the 10 candidates that were there. I made an opportunity to compete by to both screw as a result from that the opportunity for Dragon's Den came, and then you've got to take it, and then you know, do everything you can to get that. So I think in life, you can keep doing that, when you take that opportunity, it's more opportunities, we make more opportunities for yourself, and, you know, then I was lucky position to create opportunities for other people and entrepreneurs, as a result in the show. Right, I love that. I think that, you know, take opportunities is well known, right? But what that almost presupposes is that the opportunity is going to be good. I think the fact that what you've done is put a front on that and said, hey, we've got to make it ourselves, because it is about that personal responsibility, and actually put ourselves into those environments in order to get the results you want to get, so I absolutely love that. Is that something that's natural to you, or where did that come from? You know, is that just something realized along the way? It's something fun enough that I thought about, I was giving a speech at my university, they kindly offered me a awarded me a honorary doctorate, and I was giving a speech to the students graduating, and I just thought, you know, falling from my life, and what's really important, what message could I give to them, starting out, and in life, and, you know, people always hear, do what you love, do what you're passionate about, and you hear that all the time, it comes in one way, it goes out the other year. What message could you say in life that's going to, in any field that you do? It's about making the opportunity, and when it presents it, you make sure you take it, don't just leave it on the table, you know. Well, I absolutely love it, and I think that message certainly, you know, resonates in a big way, because if, you know, I think it's really important for business owners starting out to realize that nothing gets handed to you, I mean, I've never ever met a successful person, it was nice to work very, very hard, you know, and have to create those opportunities, it obviously takes, so really, really important, absolutely love that. So what's next, I suppose, is kind of what I would say to ask it's an incredible journey, what's next for you, do you think, you know, what direction are you going, on now, you know. I mean, there's a lot happening, there's obviously my business, which I'm growing, and, you know, since the pandemic, there's been a huge interest in health and nutrition and people's awareness about the unity and things like that, so I'm trying to grow the business now in the UK, and internationally, and of course, a lot more digitally at the same time, trying to expand to China and other markets. Also, you know, I have a lot of other interests, and whether it's investing in some businesses, with drivers, there's so many businesses you're picking up, but I'm more focused on strategic now in terms of which particular business is, and different size of investments. I like property and real estate, so I do that. My wife set up her business, which is incredible, so she's been a dentist for the last, well, for 11 years she was a dentist, and all of a sudden, she came up with an idea for a product, you know, that allows women to get really in half the time. So I thought is a fantastic idea, and I said, look, you know, you should go for it, and in fact, I want to invest in it, and she said, no, I'm going to need investment. I want to invest, that she says, no, I've got the need to invest, but I don't mind you helping me in advising me, so she owns a hundred percent, and she's invested all her own money, which is what she wanted to do from her savings, and she was launching the business, and sort of she created the product, and was ready to launch in the middle of the pandemic, and she's got, you know, it's the worst time to launch a business, because it's, you know, beauty type of thing, people need to be out, are they going to use the product, and I said, look, actually, it's the best time to launch a business, because everybody is sitting at home, they don't mind, go directly to consumer, you know, journalists, and everyone are wanting new products to talk about and mention. So I said, you know, just do it, and so in the last year, she's done phenomenally well, and run it, and launched into retail, and don't internationally, so it's a journey, she never thought she'd be an entrepreneur in her life, it was actually just trying to solve the need, she actually wanted a product like that that didn't exist, and so created it, we created that solution, which now changes the way people do, they make up every day, so I think that's, and the main thing is to take action, you know, it's like, and you know, there was a point where she was trying to perfect it and make it run, ultimately, you have to launch something, it needs to be good quality, and ready, but then eventually it will go from customer feedback, so don't try and wait for the perfect opportunity, the perfect condition, the perfect, you know, it was the pandemic or not, you just got to go for it, and things will, things will shape, call it the place. Yeah, I often say to people, there wouldn't be an iPhone 13, there wasn't an iPhone one, right? Continually improving it, I mean, I think it's been amazing, I've loved hearing about the journey, I've just got one last question, I'd love to ask you, and that would be, you know, advising business owners that are starting up, or they're struggling, they're in their company, you know, maybe they've hit a few walls or a few plateaus along the way, what would be just a couple of general bits of advice you'd give to that kind of person, to, you know, whether it's to focus, whether it's to stay on track, what do you think's really important for an entrepreneur to take him to that next level of success? Look, I think what's very important is, one of the things that told my wife, when she said up her business, I said, look, be prepared that you're always going to be firefighting and coming to solve problems and coming up with issues, and today she was, thank you when you told me that, because it's just literally one thing after another, and it can go what it does, and I was like, yes, it has, and at the same time, you've got to think of the bigger picture of hiring your business, and you have to deal with the issues, and there's always going to be issues, going to go along whether it's a shipment problem, a product problem, a customer problem, you know, a distribution issue, so just be prepared that that is going to happen, that is part of life, and you know, you just got to get started, and if you can build a support people, other entrepreneurs to talk to about it, because that's very useful, and find someone as a mentor who has the experience, and you can help you fast track and prevent certain issues, because you want to conserve your money and try and take it as far as you can, but the best thing is that there's no other better time in history to suffer business than today, because the friction has been taken away, it's so easy to set up your company with a couple of clicks, trademarks, set up bank accounts, accept payments, directly sell to consumers, buzzing to having to beg a buyer in a retail store to list your product pay list and fees, you know, set of thousands and thousands of thousands of dollars, and in print ads, or you know, TBRs, you can just test it with a couple of hundred dollars online to see if you're getting good return and investment, so really, and third party logistics, you're good, you don't have to worry about all that, so really, if you have an idea, and if you want to do it, just with a small amount of money, you should be able to get up and running a test list, so don't be afraid. Don't be afraid, and that's the case, don't be afraid, that was the opportunity, or make the opportunities and take them. Well, I just want to say a huge thank you, I think, you know, a really respect, you're certainly a busy man with a huge company to run, and lots of other things to do, so I'm really pleased to have you on, I think it's been amazing, some great advice there for entrepreneurs, so big thank you from me, and for the audience who've been listening, make sure that you, maybe this one, listen to it two or three times, take these in, you know, take these notes and these pieces of advice in, because they can make a major, major impact on your life, and of course, if you haven't already, make sure you subscribe to the podcast, leave us a five-star review and tell me how you enjoyed this episode, thank you again for coming on stage, it's been amazing. Thank you Adam, I appreciate that, and that was just, thank you, bye. Thank you, ever so much, brilliant, really, really good. Great, I'm glad that it went well, and it was a useful stuff. Yeah, now I think you know, certainly, I'm sure we get a lot of, you know, impacts off that, so I really appreciate it, thank you for your time, and yeah, brilliant stuff, thank you very much, really appreciate it. Thanks Adam, thanks Adam, best of luck. Hey everybody, Adam here, and I hope you love today's episode, hope you thought it was fabulous, and if you did, I'd like to ask you a small favor, could you jump over and go and give the podcast a review. Of course, I'll be super grateful if that is a five-star review, with putting our all into this podcast for you, delivering you the content, giving you the secrets, and if you've enjoyed it, please give us a review and talk about what your favourite episode is perhaps. 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