How to turn your connections into paying clients with the 3C strategy w/ Baily Hancock

My original job out of undergrad was as an event manager. I very much did that through workshop facilitation, seminars, conferences, like I was the girl that everybody had to go through to, you know, put on this event for this workshop or this seminar. So I was connected to all these different people. Then I moved into community management. I moved into business development and partnerships. Then I got into community strategy and then had my own businesses. [Music] What's going on, Bailey? How you doing? I'm so good. I'm so good. I'm so glad to be here. You're feeling good and how is it in California right now? What's going on? It's a little hazy, a little gloomy October day, which I'm here for. I'm a fall girl and so I like a little spooky vibes in October. It feels right. I like a sweater in October because that also feels correct. Not like this sweating thing. So yeah, I've got my tee. I've got spooky vibes. I'm feeling good. Nice, nice. Yeah, that's amazing. Somebody said, "Hey, Prem, what's going on?" So we're going to talk all about building relationships. You're nicknamed the professional friend maker. Why is that? It's the through line of everything I've ever done is connecting with others to achieve my goals. And so my original job out of undergrad was as an event manager. I very much did that through workshop facilitation, seminars conferences. Like I was the girl that everybody had to go through to put on this event or this workshop or this seminar. Then I got into community strategy and then had my own businesses in between all of those. And with every job, the professional friend maker component was the way in which I did things. It was like all about the people I was collaborating with and supporting and amplifying. And that's just how I've done it all. And the name came from when my nephew was four. He's 14 now. He was like, "Aunt me, what do you do for a living?" And I was like, "Well, how do I put this in kid terms?" I guess I make friends for a living and I help them learn how to play together. And it just stuck. And it's like, that is exactly what I do, actually. And so through all of the changes in my bios over the years, through all of the title changes, professional friend maker has been the means through which I achieved my goals and helped others do the same. Yeah, I think powerful relationships and connections is always an amazing topic that I love to talk about. As I'm the Changer Circle, Changer Life Guy. So I think that this is like right on topic of the stuff I like to talk about. So why, why in business is relationships so important? Because how else are you going to do a damn thing, right? Like, what are you going to do it all alone? I mean, sure, go ahead. It's going to take a lot longer. And it's going to be less interesting and less enjoyable. So it doesn't really matter what you're doing. If you're a business owner, you need new customers. You need new clients. You need promotion. You need support. You need to hire people. You need to work with people. Like, yeah, you can do the thing you're great at. Whatever that function is. But getting the word out, getting new people establishing yourself as a credible expert in your space all relies upon other people lending credibility to you through the trust that they've built with their community. I mean, I love the Changer Circle thing because it's true, you know, what they say about. You are the result of the five people you spend the most time with or whatever that is, right? It's like, yeah, you will rise to the occasion of the people that you're with or you'll drop to the people that you're with. And so whether it's like an accountability group, a mastermind or it's collaborating and doing marketing partnerships with well-aligned audiences, other people act as portals for you to get to wherever it is you're trying to go and do whatever it is you're trying to do. And I don't mean this in a very selfish, self-centered way. It's a reciprocal thing. You are a portal for others and others are a portal for you. Oh, I like that. I may steal that from you. I may steal it from you. I will, I'll quote you though. I'll quote you. The portals, I think it's the first time I've heard about. I mean, there's a lot of different ways I've heard. But portals, because look, my way, way, way, way. So it's like a portal. Yes. That's a freaking portal right there. Right. And you know, I've got my tattoo. Oh, my gosh. The Venn diagram. I think that would look really cool all it up. Yeah, that's my logo, my iconography, like my symbol for everything I do because the basis of my work is, yes, people are portals. But how do you get through those doors? Or how do you even get them to open the portal for you? It's through connecting. It's through finding the overlap on your Venn diagram with another person, right? So like you and I have some very clear overlaps with our ways of thinking about being in business. And so that's what we initially connected on and what made us like each other and want to know more and want to do more, right? It's like finding that overlap or that common whatever belief value ideas, you know, upbringing, whatever that commonality is. You start from there and then you can expand. Portal start to open, then you can walk through. Oh, my God. That's good. That's good. So how do we, how do we build trust quickly? You have to allow people to see you, which can feel really vulnerable and uncomfortable. This is something that has come up a lot for me this year because I by nature, I'm sort of an overachieving perfectionist. People pleasing type and I have a tendency to kind of morph into the person that I think the person in front of me wants to talk to and know as a means to connect. And I've done that my whole life. And there's a lot of beauty in that. Like there's a lot of beauty in being able to sort of morph or become a chameleon so that the other person feel safe with you, which is essentially I think what I was doing at the core. But there's a danger to it too. Because if you're only presenting the personality of somebody that you think they want, they're not actually getting to know you at all. They're getting to see a version of you or a persona that isn't quite it. And so the connection is never fully made, right? I think of it as like covering an electrical outlet with a piece of tape. It's like, why won't this plug go in? Like something is a barrier here to getting in. The connection can't be made. So once I sort of realized that, I was like, Oh, God. Okay, I have to face potential rejection. And show up is my most authentic self, which is arguably one of the most overused words in the world. But the way authentic is showing up for me now is telling the truth. Like when I think, oh, authentic, shut up. Now I'm like, no, can you tell the truth about who you are and what you think? So the other person can say, yep, she's for me or not my person. But either way, rejection is just redirection, right? So if they are like, you're not for me, you've just saved both of you a lot of time. So building trust, it's inherent when you can show up authentically, a gay telling the truth about yourself and letting yourself be seen by somebody else. And it doesn't mean you have to vulnerability vomit all over people, right? You don't have to tell your deep dark secrets. But you do have to share something. And that can look like being like, if you're in a networking event, say, which nobody likes, even the extroverted among us, saying like, I'll be honest with you, a new person I just met, I don't love this kind of vibe. Like I don't love the big crowded conference breakout rooms for meeting people. It doesn't feel natural. How are you feeling right now? Like just leveling with somebody and saying honestly, like how you're showing up in that exact moment, that can be enough to immediately build a little bit of trust with somebody. Because then they believe you. And they're like, okay, she's going to tell me that she's uncomfortable right now. What can I tell her that's going to show her that like, I'm in this to with her? So a lot of it is being honest and being present in the moment with somebody else. And I think a lot of us try to put the cloak on completely. Put the mask on and say they try to like do the same rodeo dance. Right. And instead of just being truthful. And it's funny because oftentimes like that line you just use like, hey, I'm going to be honest, like using even just that line with people, immediately builds trust just now you know, yeah, because now you know that like, okay, you're getting the real answer is there's none of this. Like we're still trying to figure each other out. Like I'm right away from the get going to say, I'm be honest like this. I don't like doing this. You know, I don't, I don't even know why I'm here. But I'm and I'm talking to you. So let's make the best of this thing. Let's do it if we're here. We've gotten dressed. We've driven. We've parked. We've like gotten our ass out of the house, which is saying a lot now because you don't have to. Right. And even in virtual settings, I find that it's nice to set the tone like, yeah, just so you know, I'm kind of showing up a little off today because of X, Y, and Z. Or I'm in such a good mood because this thing just happened. So like, sorry if I'm a little giddy. Like it doesn't have to be negative. It can be positive too. If anything, that's even better, right? But I think just even using the phrase, I'm going to be honest. Immediately gives the other person the permission to do the same. Yeah, that's good. That's good. See, see people. This is a, okay, hold on. We got some comments that you're, but see, see people. We got, I mean, like tactical ways that you can go ahead and use that line right away. Can you talk to us about, so you have this thing of the three C's? Can you talk a little bit about that and how the three C's can help us build a stronger network and also grow our business? The three C's are a community connection and collaboration. And it's sort of this cyclical process. So I do something with my clients called three C strategy sessions. And what we're doing there is whatever your goal is, whether it's getting promotion for your business, selling a book, filling a course, whatever, it doesn't matter. Whatever your goal is, the three C strategy helps you connect with the right people who are going to help you achieve that goal. So the first piece of it is curating a community. Rather than networking, I like to call it curating a community because networking to me implies walking down the aisle of a grocery store and just sweeping everything in your cart, right? Just like sweeping it right in. Like, you know, it doesn't matter what you're getting in there. You don't necessarily want it or need it, but you've got a full cart full of stuff. Whereas curating your community is being selective. It's having a grocery list. It's going in saying, I need, you know, six eggs. I need some avocados. I need whatever. And you're being intentional about what you're putting in your cart. And the way that translates to humans is I have a criteria for the kind of people I welcome into my world. They have to be generous, they have to be kind, and they have to be curious. Period. Because those are the kind of people I want to know, and I want to be in community with. So that's not to say that I exclude people from my network if they don't fit that criteria. LinkedIn's a good example of like, there's a lot of people in there that I can't say I've run through that criteria. But those to me, that's like top of the funnel for potential people to add to my community. Once I get on a virtual coffee chat or an in-person meeting or a call with somebody, that's where I'm running that, you know, criteria. And I'm like, are you somebody that I want to take into the next level, to the inner circle? So curating your community implies being really intentional about who you're bringing into your world. So if I was trying to market something, I would think about, okay, I would like people who have audiences similar to the one I'm trying to get my thing in front of. I also want people who are maybe doing something similar to me, but not quite. And I also would love to bring in potential, you know, customers or clients from the jump. So you can have a whole list of the type of people you want to connect with. But having that intentionality when you're attending networking events or you're asking for introductions from people in your community or you're connecting with people on LinkedIn or wherever else, having that clarity is really important because in your out wasting your time and you're not just smashing, grabbing and putting everything in your cart, you're being really selective. So that is about bringing new people into your community. That's going to help you achieve this goal. The next C is connection and it's catalyzing connection. So once they're in your world, how are you deepening those relationships? How are you nurturing those new relationships? How are you watering, watering and fertilizing the seeds that you just planted, right? And so that looks like having intentional outreach and touch points with them. It's checking in when you don't need something. It's supporting their content online. It's featuring them in your channels as just a generous thing to do. It's giving before taking and it's making people feel like you give a damn. And you're not just in it for you, right? So it's leading with value. It's leading with generosity. It's showing in, you know, a very organic, like natural interest in them. It's being curious in what they're doing and it's finding ways to help them, right? So it's a lot of like, this is where you're making deposits before you're trying to withdraw. So that's catalyzing connection. The third C is cultivating community. Sorry, cultivating collaboration. Collaboration in this sense is how are we helping each other here? What are we doing together to support one another? And this can look like making introductions, like asking for support from your network, right? Asking for something that you want. If my goal is to sell a thing, I might ask my network for introductions to podcast hosts or to people who might interview me or other ways of getting in front of well-aligned audiences. So the key here with this one is not being afraid to ask for support, which a lot of people are, especially women, not being afraid to be clear about what it is that you want. I have a little framework that I use called the ADC framework. And it's asked for what you want, be clear, and highlight your credibility. So it's like, where are the links you can share with people so that they can refer people to you very easily? Where are the receipts that show that you're a good podcast guest? So that they're not worried that if they introduce you to somebody, you're going to suck and you're going to sell their name. Right? It's like, here's what I want. Here's specifically how you can help. And here are all of the receipts to back up that I'm a credible person to recommend. So that's a little framework I use. And it really just comes down to the fact that people inherently like supporting other people, they really do. It feels good to help other people. You have to make it easy for them to do it. Otherwise, it's just not going to happen. Because people have good intentions and not a lot of time. So those are the three C's. You just dropped a lot of heat in that to summarize my whole contest. Oh my goodness, six. Okay, whoa, where do I start? All right, holy crap. Okay, well, the framework that you have, the ABC framework, I think is incredible. People just don't think about this. So like the way on how I network. So we just did this amazing retreat in New York and it wasn't like your typical retreat. Like when I put on an experience, it's very different and unique. But it's all built off of connections and relationships. And everybody was telling, like asking me, like, how did you do this? Like, where did you find this place? How did you get connected with this person? Like what, like they just kept it. Because they got basically everybody got to step into my world for a second. And they're like, how do you do this? Because it wasn't like we were going in these hotels and traditional meet-up places. Like it was kind of like the mafia. We were like in the back rooms of restaurants. And you know, like we had a podcast studio out in Times Square. But the reason why I'm saying this is because that ABC framework is literally how I move connections and relationships to a next step. Like the next level. Like literally that exact framework that you just laid out is exactly what I do to move the conversation and the relationship to the next step. And oftentimes people don't know how to do that strategically and build trust quickly. But you have to be willing to add value and they have to know why you are the person that they need to be connected to to give a resource or give a referral or give an introduction to. They need to figure out quickly who you are. And so having those materials links, like just to show that credibility is so, so, so important. And it's so simple. It's so simple too. Like it's very simple to do that. Now obviously now as you're building that out for somebody, you got to learn a little bit more about their story, who they are, what they've done, all that type of stuff. But like ask yourself like that people. I mean, what is the purple fire Saint Nick? What's going on, man? Ask yourself that the purple fire. Ask yourself that. Okay. So I got a question for you, Bailey, so okay. So let's say we're growing our relationships, right? We're growing our network. We're strategically doing this and we're doing with intention. How do we do that to get a sale? So like, is there, is there methods or ways that once we do know somebody, is there ways to, to drive it to, and maybe not just a sale. I'm saying like, even like you said collaboration, a partnership. Like, is there things extra that we should do even after we've shown the credibility? We've gotten that resource. We've shown who we are. What's the next step to get an action to happen? I mean, that's a great point because once you put it in the hands of somebody in your network, there is a bit of like, okay, hopefully this works out, right? And I think this is where being really intentional about the kind of people you even get to that stage with comes in because you want people that are good to their word. You want people that are going to do what they said they're going to do. And that are going to show up equally as excited to support you as you are to work with them, right? So so much of my business and opportunities has come through second degree connections. And I kind of like to play in that space a little bit more because then it helps me maintain a level of, I don't know, security with my own connections. Like, I'm very rarely asking my first degree connections to pay me for something, right? I'm asking them for introductions. Actually, I have another framework called the three eyes. It's info, info, and intros. So it's like, that's usually what you can get from somebody information. So that's people saying, oh, have you read this book? Have you listened to this podcast? Have you, you know, gone to this thing? Inspiration is like ideas and feedback. And like, oh, I think that's really great, but what about this? And then introductions are obviously introductions to people that can support you. So I like to maintain that level of connection with my people so that it enables them to then bring me the sale, right? And look, this should be in addition to other marketing strategies because that's what this is. It is definitely a marketing strategy, even if you're looking for promotional opportunities. It is one of those kinds of things, though, that is a bit of a long game. And if you just think of it in terms of a garden, you're not walking out to your garden that you've never been to and trying to pick fruit that day. You got to plant the seeds. You got to water them. You got to nurture them. You got to prune them. You got to like take time to build this. And I will tell you this. I had a call this morning with somebody that I've known through the internet for about six years now. She and I have never met in person. We've had two calls in that entire time. And she's putting me on stage for an event that she's running next year. And she's having me at the TEDx talk that she's putting on in a year from now. All because she's been watching. We've maintained a level of connection over the years. We've supported each other in a very passive but intentional way. And so I was talking with her about the fact that I never count on anything coming through in the reason that I want to be pleasantly surprised. Because I have such faith in this long-term strategy of building a network and a community of human beings who something might come through right away. Something might take a while. So that's why it's one piece. You still have to have that. Those paid ads and like your traditional marketing strategies on top of this. But this one, especially for entrepreneurs that don't have big marketing budgets. This is such a good free free in the terms of you're not paying for anything, but not free in the terms of time and investment. This is such a good way to start to generate opportunities for yourself. New clients, new exposure. All of the things that we know are so important as a business owner. But you do have to be a little bit patient with it and have some faith. Yeah. Yeah, that's very well said. Very, very, very well said. With that speaking, get congratulations first of all. Thank you. With that speaking, gig, what you said they were watching for a while. What are they watching? Can you just let the audience know like? Yeah. Is it like, were you just podcasts hopping like to talk to us about what were they watching? So part of this is being as visible as you can be, right? It is showing up consistently. Whether that's on your own channels or on other people's channels. I do both. I have a podcast called Seeking the Overlap. I have a digest that goes out once a month. That's called the three C's digest. And I'm on LinkedIn every day. Every day, Monday through Friday, I'm posting something, some kind of content. I'm showing up on Instagram. I'm showing up on TikTok. And all of this is recycled content, right? I'm not creating individual stuff for every platform. It's the same content put with a different lens, depending on the platform and the audience. But we know she reached out a few months ago and we got on a call. And I had no idea she was watching. Because we I think often forget there are a lot of lurkers. Maybe they're loving lurkers, they're loving lurkers. They want what's best for you. But they're not always going to throw a like your way. They're not always going to comment. But they're watching and they're paying attention. And they can't do that if you're invisible. They can't do that if you're hunkering down and, you know, sitting in your home office or wherever you are and not putting anything out. So a lot of this depends upon you being consistent and also brave enough to show up even before you're maybe 100% ready. Or before you feel like you've got it all figured out. Because I'll tell you what, going back to connection, connection happens in the messy imperfect personness of you. People like you more when they think you don't have it all figured out. Like you can have aspirational follows that you do where you're like, "Oh, one day, obviously, we've all got Oprah." It's like, "Well, one day we'd love to be Oprah." But like you don't relate to Oprah, right? Like you relate to your fellow entrepreneurs that are kind of in the shit with you where you're like, "Okay, you're maybe like a year or two ahead of me. I like that. I like that because I can look and see what might be around the corner for me." So I say this because as a recovering perfectionist overachiever, my instinct has always been, do not press post until it's perfect. But that takes up a lot of time. You're missing eyeballs and your perfect might be somebody else is like way over, right? Like your 50% might be somebody's perfect. So you just have to remember that like showing up at all I think is better than hesitating. And then the other piece of it is, yeah, I've got all my own channels. But I'm a guest on podcasts like, I mean, I've done 26 this year alone. And so that's a huge part of my strategy is getting in front of well-aligned audiences who maybe 1% of those listeners are my people and I'll take it, right? So it's a combo. It's being visible so that people that are lovingly lurking can have something to pay attention to. Lovingly lurking. That's funny. Because there's a lot of lurkers. We had a podcast earlier today and she has a good LinkedIn following Amy from a with social marketing. And she literally was saying like most of her clients are all people that are actually not directly connected with her on LinkedIn. And they shoot her a message or they go on her website and then say, hey, I've been following you a long time on LinkedIn and that's how it happens. Yeah, it's it's crazy that the people that are not the most active are the ones that are actually the clients, the people that are interested in the services. So it really goes to show you that you have to constantly show up. You know, and you just never know who's watching. You know, even if you get discouraged or you feel like, oh man, this is not really working. I'm not really getting a lot of engagement or like, it's the same couple of people that keep they going by none. But somebody's probably watching you, but they they just got the vernacular exactly. And then the moment they're ready, they reach out. And you're like, yeah, what you, I just happened another time earlier this year. I had somebody reach out who I haven't heard from in a decade saying, hey, can I hire you to do a six week workshop series on growing a network for my real estate agent team? And I was like, oh, yeah, you can't we can talk about that. And she's never liked a single thing I've posted. I've never seen her name pop up in my analytics. And so it's like, okay, all right. I guess I'll just have faith that this is working and the right people will see it. But this is why having a presence online really does matter. The other thing too, you need to remember is that somebody might find you today and go binge all of your posts. Yes, yes, listen to all of your podcast episodes. So like, I get discouraged a lot, a lot, a lot, because I like to see metrics. I like to see ROI and unfortunately, it's not always there to see. So there is a level of faith you have to have just like with the relationships, right? It's like you have to have faith that the right ones will come through for you. You have to have faith that the right opportunities and the right clients will come to you in the moment they're supposed to and not a moment sooner. Unfortunately, yeah, no, this is this is awesome. So talk to me a little bit and then we're going to get into some of the speaking and your podcast and everything. Okay, but so who's your ideal client? People that you like to work with because I'm listening, there's anybody watching this right now and listening is going to learn a ton from this by the way. Like the networking, the relationship building, how to stand out, you know, how to acquire clients from just showing up, growing an online audience like this is all this stuff I love and I preach all day, all day long. But for you, particularly, I just want to know like as people are listening to this, who's the best person that you would like to work with? And then what is like the result that you give them? So let's say they learn all these amazing things. What's the result that they get the outcome? I love working with founders because they tend to be me, the overachieving. I'll do it all myself. I don't need nobody. I've been burned in the past. I'm just going to start my own thing because I don't like listening to, you know, like I know her, I know him, I am them. Yeah. And so why I have such a soft spot for founders is a couple of reasons. One, I know how lonely and isolating it can feel when you are trying to do it all, all by yourself. Even if you hire people, there is a level of, I think, professionalism or detachment that I think most founders feel like they have to have with their employees or their team, because they need to look like they know what they're doing. They've got it all handled, right? So even if you're an executive leader at a company, if you're somebody that other people are looking towards to make decisions and keep things afloat, there is that feeling of needing to put up that persona of, I've got it all handled, don't worry, right? And so that's kind of a different piece of the puzzle, but that mindset is one that I love to work with because those people are right for receiving support. But there's often this hesitancy to welcome and ask for support, right? So it's that place where they know that they would like either support from an emotional perspective, but also in a growth perspective for their business, whether they run the company or they're a leader in a company. There is obviously such a need for external amplification of whatever it is you're trying to do, right? So another piece of why I like working with founders and executive leaders is they often have a great story to tell and they know a lot about what it is that they're doing, right? So one of my workshops is called Amplifier Influence and it's effectively teaching people how to use what I call Connection Center Thought Leadership to amplify their influence. And that looks like educating people on something, connecting with them so they trust you and they like you, and then inspiring them to take some kind of action. And those three pieces are what make up the framework. And when you're a founder or an executive leader, the education piece is usually pretty clear, that's easy, right? That's your expertise. The connection piece is where a lot of them are like, oh, I don't know about that part. So we know that the connection happens when you can be a little bit more honest and you can share the low points of your career. You can share the stickier stuff. And you can also just level with people on a human to human basis. That's what makes people want to follow you. That's what makes people want to cheer you on and see you succeed and buy your thing and download your product and blah, blah, blah, blah. So I love working with those types of people because they need the support the most, they've likely been burned in the past and they don't know how to let that guard down to ask for and receive support. And that's where the 3C strategy really comes into play because it's like, okay, you're trying to do X. Let's find you communities that you can be a member of to feel both supported to find new opportunities and to potentially give back to others, right? Like there's a lot of different things that come with the community piece. The connection pieces, how do you let your guard down enough to actually connect human to human with somebody else? Be it from a stage or one-on-one. And then the collaboration pieces where the stuff really happens, it's like, okay, now you got to ask for it and you got to receive it. So founders and executive leaders are exactly right for this kind of vibe and this kind of work because they need it, they have the best freaking stories, they get shit down. And with a little bit of amplification, they can achieve so much more and have such a greater influence and impact in their lives and their career. Wow, wow. So this is awesome. So you just lost your podcast. I did. Right? And how many episodes are you in? We're six episodes in. Okay, okay, cool. So I don't know exactly when this episode is going to drop, but you may have more episodes. Just to let everybody know. Every Sunday, we drop a new one. Every Sunday. And why did you feel like it was important for you to launch your podcast? This is the third podcast that I have hosted and produced. And I wasn't sure coming back into entrepreneurship late last year if I was going to do another one because I don't like to do anything that doesn't serve a purpose because who has the time? It was around May of 2024 when I was like, I really miss getting to lead the conversation because like I said, I'm on a lot of podcast as a guest and I love being a guest because it for a lot of reasons. But being a host, let's me ask the questions I want answers to. And it allows people also to learn alongside of me. And my podcast is called Seeking the Overlap. And the ideas were creating a more connected world, one conversation at a time. And when I initially set out to create it, I thought this season and the show in general was going to be about teaching people how to connect with others to feel less alone, to have more support, all the great things that come from connection. What I did not anticipate and what has played out, thus far, is there's a massive piece that one has to do before they can connect with others, which is connection with self. And that took me by surprise. So I'm having all these conversations with authors and thought leaders and experts in connection, realizing that I had been putting up all these barriers to connection my entire life by being a perfectionist and people pleasing and morphing into who I thought they wanted to be. Like I talked about earlier. And so I added a ton of interviews to play at the start of the season that go in real in depth on connection with self and like what the hell does that even mean and how does one do it. And it's very selfish. I'm like, tell me how can somebody just give me some answers. And if other people want to listen to, that's cool. And it's really been this amazing catalyst in my own personal growth and evolution and business growth and evolution because I'm realizing so much of what I thought, so much of what I thought was protecting me in the past and keeping me safe from rejection was the exact reason I was never feeling fully connected with anybody because I wasn't giving them the whole mean. So now I feel very grateful. I just turned 40 and I feel like, well, thank God I figured this out now. And I didn't waste another 40 years not doing the thing the right way. So this podcast has become a real time almost therapy for me and a deeper exploration into the components of connection that I had no idea I was missing. And for somebody that calls herself a professional friend maker, it's a little embarrassing. It's a little like, oh geez, here I've been out here telling people what to do, not following the correct advice. And I love that. I love that I can showcase like, oh guys, hey FYI, I do have a lot of this right, but I was missing a lot of it too. Come along if you want to join the ride with me. And hopefully we all feel a little bit more able to connect on a deeper level with ourselves and others by the end of it. Yeah, that's that's real. That's real. Just like and I think so I call that your self-awareness. And I go all around the country helping people unlock their self-awareness. And it's it's something it's a journey that we're all on. Like I mean, even myself I do I do all that work, but I'm always discovering things about myself where I'm like, okay, let me go deeper on that. And it's funny that you said about the podcast because like when I have, you know, guests on my on my podcast like this, I'm selfishly also asking questions. We are. I'm taking this prime opportunity. You get an hour or somebody's time for free. Like what? Of course. Yeah, I'm asking questions. I mean, some of it is for the audience of it. Sure, sure. Win win, okay? It's a win win. It's a win win. No, that's awesome. And then and what what do you think that this podcast is also going to do for for your business as well? Because I know that you don't just do it just to have conversations. So what do you think it's also going to do for your business? I mean, it's another opportunity for visibility. It's another opportunity for credibility. It's an opportunity for me to have hour-long conversations with people I want to know more about. Because like I said, the bulk of my interviewees for this season are authors who have written books in or around the connection relationship friendship space. I'm writing a book proposal right now for a book on seeking the overlap. And now I have a bunch of people who have agents and publishers in the exact category I want to be in. So it serves a lot of purposes. It's also content. I mean, Lord knows like talking about being visible, I get so much juice for the squeeze with my podcast episodes. That's like I want that on my tombstone. She got the most juice for the squeeze out of life. Because it's like if you're going to do something, do it as well-rounded as possible so you get the most from that one opportunity. So I've got like four to five posts every week. I've got content for TikTok and Instagram Reels. I've got newsletter, fodder. I've got all of these pieces from one one-hour interview. And that's not nothing, right? So even if nobody listens to the podcast, which obviously I hope they do, I actually listen. I never used to listen to my podcast because I was there for the recording, but I listen now as an audience member. And I'm like, oh, that host made a good point. Oh, really good point. Wow, that's really insightful. She's good. She's pretty good. Somebody should give her an award. So, you know, it serves a lot of purposes. And it does take a lot of time, but it's also literally helping me write this book. Like the book is called Seeking the Overlapped, Connecting Deeply and a Deeply Disconnected World. And my episodes are also interviews for the book. So I'm getting all the juice for the squeeze that I can out of it. And truly, like, even if nothing else, it is changing my life because I'm learning so much about something I thought I knew everything about. It's humbling. And that's good. It's good to be humbled. Yeah, yeah. That's awesome. We just had a, I just had, did I connect you with Kimberly Spencer yet? I don't know. I think I talked to you about her last time. You just reminded me because when you were talking, so she literally just dropped her book and it's called How to Make Every Podcast Want You. And she took pieces from the podcast and then put it into the book and then she kind of filled it around it. And then we, and she just released it, like a week, a week or two before our retreat. And then we got to feature her book alongside a couple others on the Billboard and Times Square, which was just like epic. And she's got this, and she's pregnant too right now. She's got this picture of her like this. And it's like, you can see a little bump. It's just like that's so cool. But she's like a mall of energy, but it reminded me of like, yeah, taking the podcast and then putting into the book because you're, you're grabbing stories and then you can even just share more context around it. Like it's such a great way to write a book. Yeah, so much less isolating. Yeah, it's like, you're just like in a dark corner like, no, I'm the kind of person that needs other people to generate ideas. Like I very much get ideas through my conversations and connections with other humans. If I'm just alone in my office all the time, it's not that there's any, it's not that it's not coming. It's just not as relevant to me and it's not as alive. Like my ideas that I get through conversation feel so much more of the moment because they're coming through other people, which tells me other people are thinking about these things. And there's some kind of validation in that too. For sure. Yeah. Yeah. Oh my god. It's just, this is so good. I just love, I just love what you're about. It's like, it's just so refreshing. It's refreshing to talk to somebody that gets it. Like I, it just understands the power of a network, knows how to move around a room, grow relationships quickly. And then the way also that you're using it like for podcast casting, I mean, I would also think of like business development. Oh yeah. Do you do a lot of business development trainings or have you been asked to me? It's all kind of in the same vein. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Having a network regardless of your intention, it's all the same mechanics. I mean, like I, the real estate agent thing is a good example of that where it's like a lot of her agents were younger. They're in their 20s. They don't really have a robust network. So who are you selling to and whose houses are you selling? Like it's teaching people the fundamentals of meeting other humans and then finding a way to thoughtfully and symbiotically leverage those relationships in a way that's not going to piss a bunch of people off and not going to hitting up your Facebook crew for all of your snails. Right? Like people get real sick of that real fast. So yeah, it's applicable to anybody that needs human beings to do their job, which frankly is pretty much almost everybody. It's almost everybody. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's, that's awesome. So, so what? So let's say that we built our relationship. This is one last question I want to ask you. So we built our relationship. Now help us be able to actually have a, I hate the word transaction, but like be able to convert the person to either, you know, collaborate, partnership, advocates, sponsor, what you're doing, become a client or a customer, all the different ways of, of basically adding value to somebody else. How do we then blow it up some more? So like now they've already, we've got somebody to know, like, and trust us. We built this relationship and there's, there's some connection. There's that overlap, right? That happened. Now, how do we have the ripple effect? So I kind of want to hear what your strategy is when it comes down to asking them for, you know, referrals or other intros or ripple, like basically spreading out what they were able to do in that relationship and how do you get more of it? I think of it as if we go to collaboration specifically. So my first business six years ago was as a collaboration consultant. And I worked primarily with service-based entrepreneurs to help them grow their business with partnerships. And the way that I would always explain it was you got to do a lot of test and learns, test and learn, test and learn. And the same is true for collaboration with individuals and like we're talking about here, let's say it's a referral situation. Let's even say it's me and you. We meet. We have overlap. We like each other. What happens is you continuously create new opportunities to connect with that person. So I have a bunch of people I've met this year who we have like a standing quarterly call where we check in with each other. We may check in in between as well if something comes up and we could use some short-term support. But what we're usually doing is something small together. So whether that's, you know, being on a podcast, I don't think is small. I think that's like a medium to high thing depending on the show, right? But let's say it's being included in their newsletter. You are launching something and somebody has a decent newsletter and they're like, I'd love to promote you in it. You get put in there. You make sure you have a way to measure ROI, right? So you're trying to track that. Like, is it a discount code you gave them so that you can say everybody that used this code came from this opportunity, whatever it is. Then you see how that goes. You see if their audience liked what you had to say. You see if like, you got more than a handful of people to opt into your thing. And then you go back and say, hey, do you want to like co-produce something together this time? Like, do you want to do a fireside chat together? We could go live on LinkedIn or we could do whatever. Like, whatever that next step is. Look, it's not that dissimilar to dating, okay? It's a lot of like, let's go for coffee. If we like each other, we can go to lunch. And then we can go to dinner. And if that goes well, maybe we do something a little longer term, right? So you just sort of build up to it. And look, not everybody is going to be somebody you want to go on a second date with. And that doesn't mean you have to get rid of them from your community. It doesn't mean it's a flop. It just means it wasn't the right aligned opportunity at the time. So you just baby step your way into it. And you also have to make sure that it doesn't feel one-sided, right? Are you showing up for them? Are you supporting them in the best way for them as possible? And so it is a lot of like, relationship building through the whole process. You know, I said the three Cs are like cyclical. It's not a line. It's not a straight line from community all the way to collaboration. It is a cycle. Because when you collaborate, you also get the opportunity to add more people to your community because you get exposure. And then you got to connect with those people. And even with the people you're collaborating with, you have to maintain that relationship. Because that's when people get a little bit like, I don't like that, is when they feel used, right? They feel like you got what you came for and then you dropped off today. Yeah. And you've got. That sucks. And it's happened to me. I'm sure it's happening to you. And that is people are going to people, right? People are going to people. It's okay. That's part of the game. But I think as long as you're showing up generously and organically and authentically and all of those, right? And you're being honest and transparent with the people you're collaborating with. And giving honest feedback, right? Like, hey, I really felt like that went really well. Like, thank you so much for that introduction of so-and-so. They are an ideal client. If you know anybody else like them, police and them, my way, I will give you 10% of whatever, you know, they sign up for it with me. Like put a little skin in the game. Make it worth their while. But I'll tell you, not everybody's going to want, you know, a kickback. Like, some people want other things. And I think that's another really important piece to this is figuring out what is appealing to them as a payment, whether it's reciprocated promotion or it's actual dollars. It doesn't matter. You got to find out what's important to them and then meet them where they are so that everybody feels like it's an even value exchange. So good. I mean, that's it's so good. It's so good because like, that's the that's the key to moving forward any relationship or connection is figuring out what's valuable to them. Yeah. Don't make assumptions. Yeah, don't make assumptions. I mean, you can have a couple tried intrusive, like, parking ideas or something like that, but finding out what's valuable to them. I got a good friend of mine and I have him in my book. He goes by DJ Payday. And I met him almost nearly 10 years ago when I started my business and I met him through Twitter and he till this day wants nothing. It's the it's like every once in a while you meet an individual that just wants nothing and they just want to see you win. Yeah. And he literally is that to me. He's giving me so many intros, connections, opportunities, especially in the beginning of the business when I was just getting things going. And he gave me so much. And I just got kept asking like, dude, like, like, let me do some for you, bro. Yeah. Right. Because we're so not used to that. I'm like, please, man. And then, uh, you know, and then one day I just like, dude, like, why? Why do you do this? He said, I just want to see like when I see something special, I just want to see it win. And I'll tell you why. Somebody probably did it for him, right? Like, this is the thing that we also have to remember. Yes, reciprocation is so important, leading with value, all of that, everything we've been talking about. And it's not always a one to one thing. Sometimes you're going to have benevolent people like that that show up in your life. And they feel like I told this woman on the call today. I was like, my fairy godmother strikes again. Like, you came out of nowhere and just through two speaking gigs at me, like, what for you? And she's like, I just appreciate what you're doing in the world. And I want to see you succeed. And I'm like, okay. And to me, that gives me like capital that I can then spend on somebody else, right? Like, it doesn't have to be one to one. It's kind of, I call it relationship karma. It's it is. It's like, do you want to others pass it on? Be a mentor, open doors for people because it does come back around. It does. You're a good person in the world. You lead with integrity. You genuinely show up and support others. People want to be in support of you too. So I guarantee you that person has either had doors open for him that he feels grateful for and wants to pass it on, right? Just pay it forward. That's all. Yeah. And I continue to, honestly, I take, because it really, people like that that just touches me in a certain way where I'm just like, okay, I got to, I see other situations where I'm like, okay, I got to, I got to help this person or even even this past event, like we featured, I think it was like three or four people that are on the billboard that they were like, why? And I said, because I believe in what you're doing. And you, and also, it was less about me. It was more about them because they needed to see, they need to see themselves there. Yeah. And, and when they saw it and they're like, oh my god, maybe I am onto something. Maybe I am like, it's like, I hate when people need validation, but to a certain degree, everybody needs some type of some form of validation. If you have any validation, you're probably a psychopath. Like, or an egomaniac. There's confidence. And then there's whatever that is. Right, right, right, right. It's social proof. It's social proof. And to say, hey, I'm on the right path. Yeah. And just to give you that extra confidence and that boost that you're going in the right direction. So yeah, just just paying that forward is so incredible. This has been awesome conversation. Where can people connect with you? How can I find you? Best place to go to is seeking the overlap.com because I don't get you to my website and all my handles are at the bottom of the page. But I love connecting with people on LinkedIn. So if you're on LinkedIn, come and find me, send me a DM, say you heard me on this podcast. That's also my way to track who's paying attention. Who's coming to my world, right? It's like, I was on a podcast yesterday and I got five connection requests within like a couple hours of it airing. And I'm like, okay, see, this is why I do it. And it just, it's beneficial to everybody, right? So go to seeking the overlap.com and then please, if you are on LinkedIn, which everybody should be because, you know, it's where the grownups are. Connect with me there and tell me you heard me on this podcast and we'll see where it goes. But thank you for having me. This has been so fun. I appreciate it. Yeah. Yeah. This is, this is awesome. If you're listening, you're watching, please like, comment, subscribe to the podcast. If you haven't already, please share this with somebody. Don't be selfish. Share this out with somebody. Get this over to somebody that needs to hear this information, which is pretty much everybody that needs to, that needs to hear it, but definitely founders and executives and entrepreneurs alike that need to hear this information. And don't forget to connect with Bailey as well. I mean, everybody's reachable that I have on this podcast need to go reach out and connect with them. Don't forget to change a circle. You can change your life. So thank you so much for being on this podcast. And we'll catch you on the next one. Beasts. Don't forget to like, comment, and subscribe. And don't forget to hit that notification bell for more amazing content that we're going to be putting out. And don't forget, you can change your circle to change your life.