How to Treat Cutaneous Melanoma - Deep Dive with Dr. Sapna Patel

[Music] Hey, good morning everybody. Thank you very much for joining us for another edition of A meeting with STLS. My name is Brian Hilder with the Library System Director. To begin, we want to thank everybody that worked over this past weekend as well as everybody who's working evenings this week. And overall, we just want to thank everybody that serves here within the Southern Interior Library System. Today, I am joined by Executive Director of the David A. How Public Library Nick Gunning. Nick has been with the library since 2014 and was named the Library Director back in 2016. He's also worked in libraries for more than 20 years, having got his first start in Southeast Michigan as a teenager. In addition to public libraries, Nick has served in a leadership role both at the Houghton and Alfred University Libraries. He holds a bachelor's degree from Houghton University and associates from Kellogg Community College. Nick has been highly involved in STLS since arriving here on the scene, not only as he served as the chair of the Director's Advisory Council, but he is also one of the founding members of the Dax Diversity Equity Inclusion Committee, and he continually participates in several other Dax committees throughout his career. Lastly, he is a graduate of STLS's first leadership for Engage and Active Directors cohort. And this year, he'll be returning to the favor by teaching a class for our North Star Leadership Program. So some interesting facts about Nick include that he is a big active theater participant. He is volunteered for his local fire department, and he continues to volunteer for the Elginie County Board of Elections. He is also a council member for the town of Wellsville. And lastly, most notably, he is the first member in our system to host a podcast, which has been going for 11 years now titled "The All the Books Show." And some other interesting facts Nick was just telling me about before he's going live here this morning is that he learned and taught himself how to play the ukulele in the base over COVID. And he's actually doing a Beverly Hills 90210 rewatch podcast. I would encourage anybody that is a fan of Beverly Hills 90210, check it out. I just learned about it today, so I plan on checking it out after today's recording. And something I just want to share about Nick is we've had the privilege of working together now for almost 10 years now that Nick's been in the system. I really rely on Nick to be a sounding board to me. There are often times there are things that are taking place system-wide where directors have a feeling about something or there's an issue or a challenge that we're facing. And Nick's one of those people that I just really reach out to because I trust his judgment. I think he has some really good advice and opinions. Sometimes we don't always agree on the same exact thing, but I need to hear those checks and balances, so I make sure that we all are all working together as a system to head in the right direction. Nick, thank you very much for joining us this morning. I appreciate it. Yeah, happy to do it. All right, so we've got four questions we're going to ask. I might now let them learn more about you this morning. I might have some follow-up questions for you. So our first question is, how did you get into library work and what is your favorite thing about libraries? Oh, okay. Well, I was a teenager, as you said, but there's two corrections I have to make. Election inspectors do get paid. And people think, yeah, people think it's volunteer. And I mean, nobody would do it for the money, but you do get paid for doing that. And those range, sometimes they're fun and sometimes it's a total nightmare, but I would encourage people to do it because it's a great way to get to know the system. And the other thing, when I was in that lead program, that STLS did, that's where I learned that you do resilient jiu-jitsu, is that right? Not any more COVID-19. But you did. Oh, but you did. I did it for like more year. You tossed that out and that was such a, I've just never forgotten that because I've been such a fun fact. But okay, how did I get into libraries? Well, yes, I was a teenager. I went and applied for a job just at the circulation desk of the public library where I grew up and I got it. And it was really just like, I needed something to do. You know, it wasn't like, I was passionate about libraries or it's like, that's the place that I had to be. But you know, I liked it. I'd like visiting it and I did it. And it really was that job. I was just talking to a friend of mine who was a student worker. We worked together there. And we were both saying that was one of the best jobs we ever had because we just had so much fun. You know, and it was, it was much more of an urban setting than where we are now. And so it was heavily trafficked and it was just such a variety of people and experiences. And the book drops were all around town. So on book drop day, it was like we'd hold up in the back and just scan book after book, after book, after book. And that was where I found a lot of my favorite authors were scanning through that book rack. You know, Jack Finney's one of my favorites. I discovered him because of giant cassette audio books. And I was like, I got to figure out what this is about. But I worked there. I mean, all through college really, like when I moved away from Michigan, when I would be back for summers or vacations or something, I'd be like, hey, I'm going to be in town for a couple of weeks, put me on the schedule. And they always would. So I did that job. I love it. I still, you know, like I said, I'm in contact with a couple of people there. And then as soon as I graduated college, I got hired at Alfred University, Herrick Memorial Library where I worked for a couple of years. And that was an exciting time. I was almost poisoned by propane at an offsite chicken coop storage facility. And then I stayed in academic libraries for almost 10 years when this position, David A. Howe opened up. I was hired to do adult services and like adult programming, trying to really get that going. And I did that for about a year. And then I was promoted to assistant director. And shortly after that, my predecessor moved on to a different job. And I was made interim director. And I didn't apply for that job for a couple of months because I was enjoying what I was doing. And I was like, do I want to be doing paperwork and board meetings and stuff like that. But a couple of months in, I was like, yeah, I think I could do this. And I was also sort of motivated by like, if I don't, somebody's going to come in here and start bossing me around. And I didn't really want that either. So I did it. And I've been director for almost exactly 10 years. And it was a great shock to me because I really didn't have the ambition to do that. You know, I just, I was enjoying what I was doing. But here I am. If you never took that job or got that job as a teenager at your public library, like, would you be working a library today? You got a job working in a grocery store or something else different, yeah? No, probably not. I mean, I was really active. Like before that job, I worked at a professional dinner theater. Like that was what I did all through like late high school and early college. I would like kind of work my schedule around that. And we do 100 shows, seven shows a week. So that was really what I was doing. And so the library thing just kind of happened. But I'd never, ever crossed my mind that that would be a career. And even through college, like when I got that first job at Alfred, it was like, I like libraries. This is available. I think that would, I would enjoy doing that. Even then, I wasn't really like, I'm in it for the long haul, you know? Yeah. Well, that was kind of snuck up on me. Well, that was going to be my second question. So like when you were working through Houghton and like, you know, and then also working for Alfred University Libraries, like, did you think like, hey, this is a great question. This is my career after college. I think once I moved past the Alfred job, which I really enjoyed, but the Willard J. Houghton library was kind of a step up. It was more responsibility. And I supervised all the student workers. And that was honestly the part that I really, you know, I did a little bit of that at Alfred, but I did it fully at Houghton. And I really enjoyed working with the student workers and just kind of seeing the interesting things that that brought up. And so I think a couple of years into that, I was like, yeah, okay. Yeah. I really did always feel the pull of public libraries. Like that was, you know, especially there, I would get notes from the director that was like, you know, that display is not really academic. That needs to be a little bit more in line with like curriculum stuff. And I was like, why? You know, like people can still have fun coming to the library, even if they're mostly here because they need, you know, some article on reserve. I always was like being pulled back to public libraries. And so when the Wellsville job opened, I kind of went in, I mean, you know, you know what this place looks like and what it's like to be inside. But I kind of went in feeling like this is pretty lateral. Like the positions were pretty lateral and it wasn't a huge pageump or anything like that. Sure. So I kind of went in pretty relaxed and finished the interview. It felt good about it. And as I was walking out, just sort of looking around at the space and what the library was and what it, the potential that I felt like I could contribute, I got into the car with my very pregnant wife and was like, well, now I have to get that job. Yeah. You know, like I really, it wasn't until afterwards that I was like, no, no, I do want this a lot, you know. And then, yeah, you're in. I don't know if it's about the building or the community or what, but it does feel like a calling. Like if you, I had a similar experience when I applied for the job there. Like I remember going home and talking to my wife and just being like, this is it. Like because I had a couple of other job offers coming out of the library school. But if I had taken those different job offers, I wouldn't be talking with you here today, but it is like that there's something special about that library. Yeah. So that's a good segue. Oh, okay. No, you asked me what I like best about it. Yeah. And I would say that something that the senior staff here and I talk about frequently is how much variety there is like any given day, I could be like some days, I'm just hold up in my office and I am, you know, writing a grant that is annoying and laborious and I don't want to do it. And other days, I'm like, you know, how big of an enclosure do we need for a lizard? You know, it's just like, it's every day can kind of be like something different, you know, and I really appreciate that because I don't think that I ever really have the opportunity to be bored. Like even when I'm finding I'm focusing more on things that I don't like so much about the job, I know that it's temporary and I'm going to be, you know, back with my knees covered and dust as I'm like looking for books and doing it. It can be whatever we make it, you know, and I think that's really unique. And a lot of conversations that I've been having. with folks both through this platform as well as just one-on-one conversation. That seems to be like a common theme. Like a lot of people just lean into the job because of its flexibility and its creativity that you can just do, I mean, some days, yeah, you just got to go through the work and the motions, but other days, most days, you get to do some things that are really exciting. So speaking about your team, I thought that was a good segue to the next question. So what are some of your approaches for developing the highly impactful team? I mean, I've seen your staff at work. I see the way that they present themselves and the projects that are working on the social media. So how are you fostering that? Well, I think in part, like learning from both positive and negative experiences I've had in jobs, like what I like about the job, where I felt most appreciated or where I felt like my contributions were being utilized. You know, and I felt like I was really able to give myself to that job in a way that was like very rewarding for me and productive for the place. And so trying to think like what the difference was. And so I think, once I started this job, because even before I was director, I was supervising the whole desk staff. I think that the most crucial piece of that is like paying attention. You know, paying attention to people's, not just attitudes or productivity, but like how they're feeling, like are they enjoying the work or they enjoying the experience, even when we're kind of doing something that nobody likes. You know, like what is the vibe? I try to always pay attention to that. And when I look at like the breakdown of what my job is, I would put staff development kind of on equal footing with the output that we're doing and here, you know, maintaining the building. But I think that it's a crucial, crucial piece of my job that, like that I'm putting the time into that because I don't know, anybody can walk into a place and be like, oh, the vibes are off. You know, the staff isn't happy. You know, whether it's a restaurant or a store or a library, whatever, you can kind of pick that up as somebody who's coming there for the service. And I think that that has a really kind of a devastating impact on people's experience. So I try to make sure that I rarely, if ever, walk by someone's workspace without stopping and just as quick like, hey, how's it going? You know, like would you do anything fun this weekend? Or whatever? And I try to always have an open conversation, whether it's a formal like we're doing an evaluation or just kind of a, you know, maybe we're on the desk together working on projects together. And I try to ask things like, what is your least favorite part of the job? Like what do you wish that you weren't doing with the understanding that like, you probably still have to do it? But I would just like to know what that is. You know, like I, I have somebody who has this one shift that they just hate, but it's kind of baked into that position and it serves an important purpose. And so I get it. I'm sympathetic. I don't see changing that, but, but it's helpful for me to know how they feel about it. And I think it's helpful for them to know that I know and understand and appreciate that they're doing something that they would rather not, you know. So I think it really is about communication and just paying attention. I love this stuff. I mean, our staff here at STLS may disagree with the statement about to say, but like, I don't think I've ever given anybody a directive in my entire time as like a manager. I'm just going to text them and find out. No, I'll go for it. I'm just saying that, like, I don't, like, yeah, there are certain things like we just have to do within the job because that's what it says, the job description is. And sometimes there's deadlines and we got to meet them. And so sometimes you get to say, hey, like we, we just got to get through and get this thing done. But like, most of the time it's just, it's walking around and just having conversations with folks and, you know, like you said, listening and trying to find out what it is that gets staff excited about coming in and doing the thing even when it's times when they don't want to do it. And then if you can, if you can help align those interests and, you know, curiosity is in a way that is impactful to provide services to the community, that's right where it's at. Yeah. Well, I think that's true because I really, I mean, I agree. I hate being in a position to have to like pull rank, you know, like I don't want to have to be like, well, you know, and occasionally I have had to do that on rare occasions. Have I had to step in and be like, we don't see eye to eye on this. Ultimately, like I have to be responsible for what happens here and so. Sure. You know, so I do think that that is, you know, necessary occasionally. But I also feel like the staff feels supported by me and that they know that I won't let them make a fool of themselves or something, you know what I mean? Like if they're, if they're heading into something that they're unsure about and we have a conversation and we kind of agree, like yes, this is the, this is the right path and we'll just give it a shot and see what happens. I feel like there's a lot of comfort in that knowing that somebody has your back. You got a great team, so it's glad to hear that like that's the magic. So I found out with my board too. I mean, there's been times when I've walked into a board meeting feeling like this is what we have to do. I know it and then we'll have a conversation and I'll be like, I think I'm wrong. I think I'm wrong about that and I think that they are right and so we have to kind of switch that and I appreciate that because you know, they've saved me trouble or at least they've saved me, you know, yeah, yeah, exactly. So you know, talking about either a current or past project that brought you the most joy. Well, you talked about it, you know, teaching this class and we're talking about building maintenance and things like that. Building, building maintenance going into this job was something that I feel like I was the least prepared for. Just the scope of managing a historic building and what that means. Even with the good maintenance staff we have and the knowledgeable people, you know, in our board, buildings and grounds committee, even with all that, it was a lot that I just had to learn on my feet, you know, every day and sometimes make mistakes and sometimes be like, man, if I would have thought of that six months ago, we would be in such a better position. But one of the things that we knew that we were going to have to do was repaint and really restore the cupola, the, you know, the sort of the window tower on top of the library. That is, that's an iconic image locally, you know. It's the logo for the Chamber of Commerce, it's what's on all the park benches. It's kind of when people think of the library, they picture that and it was looking pretty rough, you know, it was, it was in bad shape. It's, you know, constantly, of course, exposed to the weather and sun one side of it, the wood was in horrible shape from being beaten by the sun all the time. The top of it is copper, though, of course, they had turned green over the years and really the paint was peeling, the wood was damaged, the copper was dingy. It just wasn't the showpiece that it could be. So that took some hustle. I mean, we had to get some donations and grants because it was an expensive project. And honestly, the actual work on the cupola was the smallest portion of that. Most of it was finding a way to scaffold and get up there. You know, that was, that was the hardest thing. So that was a long process from start to finish when it comes to finding the funds, finding someone who could do the work, scheduling the work, having the work done. And there was surprises along the way. We got up there when the scaffolding was done. And one of the spires was completely filled with honey bees. And so they were like, "Hey, man, we can't touch this unless you get those bees out of there." And so then I had to find a bee guy who ended up coming from Buffalo and estimated that he vacuumed out 90,000 bees, which were re-homed. You know, we didn't want to kill them, obviously. So they were re-homed. So all of that to say, once that was finally done and the wood was repaired and the paint was all done and we painted the copper with a copper-flect paint so it will retain the color. It looks great, but the thing that I didn't anticipate was the community feedback I got because people who have lived in this town for whatever, 50, 70, however long, did not realize that they could see the library from their house. But the copper of the cupola is so visible, no matter where you are, you can kind of look up and see the library. And I didn't anticipate that and that has been such a fun thing. For me personally, I know how difficult it was to get that done, start to finish. And so now, like when I'm walking up and I kind of look up at it, it's something that I really feel like, you know, I did it. I feel like that's a real win. So that's one that I often think of, you know, on the programming side. Just this past Friday, you know, we have a regular teen group that meets, they meet Thursday's and Fridays, but this was the Friday version and it was a nice day. So they were outside and I was walking to another meeting somewhere. And I just go on the lawn and there's, you know, four or five different groups of teens, like summer playing a game, summer reading, summer just like laying on blankets chatting. And I just felt like that is. And join their local public library. Yeah. And I just, you know, I just, I felt so good about that and so proud of our teen librarian and just thinking about these kids growing up, having a place like this that they can have ownership of and feel like they can just show up and plop down. And you know, and they'll be welcome and happy. That is really meaningful to me. That's cool. So what are some of the things that we should be thinking about as a library system and as a profession as we're moving forward in this 21st century? Yeah, that's a question gets trickier, I think every year. I think going back to what we were saying about how every day is kind of different. I think that's true in terms of every year, every six months is kind of different. You know, something that's both frustrating and sort of inspiring or challenging is that often things that worked six months ago do not work anymore. You know, and so I think that you just can never feel like we did it. We cracked programming. We cracked having circulation be what we want it to be because it just changes. You know, and so I think we're in this position where we really have to be thinking ahead all the time. You know, thinking ahead, looking at like what are trends? Like what would get me to leave my house because it takes a lot, you know, and so just trying to think about like what that means and how we can meet that need. And as people's name is, you know, the most important thing is to make sure that you're not in the right place. needs change a little bit. We have been watching as our physical circulation goes a little down, but as our digital circulation goes up more than the physical is going down. So in the one hand, I feel like the circle is down. But then I think, no, that's not true. Like actual usage of the collection continues to go up. It's just happening differently. And so I think that's something we need to think about. But I think also on a deeper level, when we're in an era where it feels like saying that you're open and welcoming to all starts to feel like a political statement. When it's not, it's just the goal of libraries. I think that becomes a very difficult thing to handle. And I think when you're in a society that what is real and what is truthful, not everybody agrees on that anymore, when you have a place like a library that kind of stands for truth and real and free and open access to information, when that becomes something that people begin to fear, it just puts you in a really precarious kind of situation where you sort of feel like you have to be a defender of something that should be a given. And that is kind of scary to me. It's scary and it's also like a real challenge that we have to stay on top of things. We have to stay on our game all the time. Yeah, I mean, your statements, I totally resonate with, we were in our board meeting yesterday for STLS. And I was talking through some of the challenges a few of our member libraries are dealing with right now. And as I was like dialoguing through each individual situation, the trustees were hanging on every single word. But I'm like, I've been doing this for 20 years, but I guarantee you our previous system director never had to have these types of conversations with the board members because of all the different levels of issues that we're dealing with today that we just never had to deal with 20 years ago. I mean, part of the reason you told your story about how you got involved in libraries in mind similar, but it was an academic library. But at the same exact time, we got into it because we were excited about the work and we felt like we were just doing something that was good to provide access to information and continuing education and lifelong learning. And so I don't know, sometimes it's hard when I think about public libraries and what it is we're supposed to be doing. I just don't understand why people just don't get it. It's the most simple as concept in the world, but you have to work so hard at it. Yeah. Well, it's also kind of a heroine thought to think about, if public libraries didn't exist and the idea came up today, would it happen? I don't think so. I just don't, I think that would be a really hard sell to be like, we're going to support this locally and it's just going to be free, open access. I don't know, maybe I'm too cynical, but I have trouble thinking that that would get the support that it needed from the people that it needs it from. Yeah. I don't know. Nick, thank you so much for joining me today. Sure. It's been nice to have you here. I wish we could keep talking forever, but I want to make sure that people want to spend their time listening to us while they're sitting on the circulation desk and grab a minute. But everybody, everybody, thank you very much for joining us this morning. I appreciate you taking the time to be with us and listening to Nick and I go through this conversation. I appreciate Nick for taking time out of his schedule until we meet again, everybody. Be well, take care of yourselves, take care of each other. The long.