How to Talk to Your Partner and Improve Your Sex Life feat. Vanessa Marin (Rerelease)

choking a lot of people underestimate like how gently you can do it with spanking a lot of people think that you should go soft no we know also we people i can't tell you how many times i've been softly spanked and it really gives me the ick this podcast is a dear media production hi guys hi guys welcome back to a re-release of girls gotta eat but fresh intro yeah just lock in for these hot fresh two minutes i hope you guys are having fun yeah not the best weather on the east coast supposedly i'm glad for the break so as this airs i'm probably on a flight i was taking a 6 a.m flight from boston what are you saying to me why i just wanted to get home i've been gone for two and a half weeks at this point and that was the affordable delta one option and i'm back baby i've been back in delta one it's so long i don't even know what it's like like astronomical so i saw one that was relatively affordable i was like i'll get up at 4 a.m to get right back into bed i don't sit in that part of the planet anymore i'm in the back where the short people are i rode back i allowed myself one nice flight this whole tour because i was just like it's too much it's too much like flying and spending money whatever i allowed myself one nice flight i missed it that flight because this horrible tsa agent that was terrorizing me and i had to fly home row 37 middle seat last row on the plane next to the bathroom no no recline being in the bathroom with no recline is so insane and it's so shitty no pun intended because like there isn't anybody behind you well they're they're on the toilet i guess but it's just like then it doesn't recline on top of it the guy next to me there was no perfume left at the airport because he was wearing all of it no and i just i was like how did this happen to me that should be illegal that tsa agent threw out all my skinceuticals i was crying at the airport is finally ready to break her silence on this right now when you left me that crying voice note about this i was like somebody has died you know when you call a friend and you have to say like three times like i'm okay i'm okay but like i tried to leave you a voice note three times and i was gulping through crying i was so upset like this guy was so mean to me i was so shaken for no reason i lost all that that wasn't over three ounces like he just decided to terrorize you yeah it was crazy i told that story to shashank there was more to it than just throwing out her products everybody it was just it was a lot it was a lot it was just weirdly targeted and on you and said mean things to you publicly whatever i told shashank i thought i was gonna cry he was just like i don't like her travel i'm gonna get emotional he's like i don't like her traveling alone like if one of us would if one of us one of us dudes would have been there no but he was like i wish i would have been there but what are you gonna do fight a tsa agent i said that to a guy friend of mine though i was like i'll give you like a 30 so i went through they said that i had my bag at first was too heavy and i was like it's a carry-on it's a thing and he opened it up and all my stuff spilled out my underwear was all over the table and i was like hey man this is kind of humiliating like can we not and he was just like oh humiliating you're humiliated we're gonna humiliate you now and it just went on for a long time and i did feel like really like if i was with a man this would not have happened it makes you feel like very alone in the world yeah and like britney had home like an hour prior to me and she was like do you want to come to the airport with me and i was like i don't want to get up so you go and she went without me and i could have been with somebody oh it was so sad i it is one of those moments i very rarely feel this in my life but where you're like i am alone i know but like unless that guy clocked you as being alone and and honed in on you which who's to say whether he did or not but otherwise it's hard to really jump in like i don't know what would i have done and then we both would have gotten taken away and just detained you know i would be like you are going to talk to my friend and she's taller than me that's probably taller than him i think that people like that that just get their kicks from like embarrassing and terrorizing somebody like probably just wouldn't do it in front of a man it like yeah i don't think it has anything to do with a man like fighting him i just don't think he would have felt empowered but who's to say you're separated you get like nicky glazer such as when you go into the nail salon you get separated at the border i mean you get separated from the belt you might be over here you might be over there like you do kind of get separated okay but that one time remember in denver andrew collin and i traveled home together and i did have too much liquid in my bag just too many bottles and they were pretty nice to me about it i was with andrew so intimidating yeah it's because he's so mean and big but anyways if you guys work for skinceuticals and you want to send me i said and also to ashley you know what i get it she gets also but i'm good do you like skinceuticals yeah i mean i just i got my i got you got your shit okay yeah anyway guys so we have this great episode today so we're going to this was the very first time we had vanessa marin on it's such a good episode about improving your sex life and being in a sexual slump verena this was the one where she talks about spanking and choking and i was just kind of reviewing it and i'm looking at it i was saying how like when you smack one ass cheek you gotta smack the other because they feel imbalanced like i kind of forget stuff we said four years ago this was in new york in our old studio so you can you know debate whether or not we've glowed up or not but take a look and so you can watch full video on spotify and youtube and just enjoy i think this is like really great we've done two episodes with her both of them are phenomenal and really popular and have been shared so much because there's just so much amazing advice so you know take a listen and revisit it if you have if you haven't listened to in a few years and improve your sex life this memorial day yeah have sex today yeah let us know if this has improved your sex life this week yeah this is about how to talk to your partner about doing stuff and doing stuff we encourage you to just you know maybe have sex on the way home today in the car yeah you know maybe blow job you guys be safe out there there's a lot of cops out on memorial day weekend also true don't get arrested pull the car there always are cops out because like close to the end of the month they're trying to hit that quota it's a holiday weekend so if you're more rain is friend and we're ashley's friend if you're if you're trying to suck a dick in traffic you're wearing his friend if you're trying to not get a ticket because you've had too many you're my more yeah i'm not on my quota okay well you guys enjoy the episode we hope you had a great weekend we will see you on thursday for the snack yes let's get into it okay guys we are really excited to welcome our guest today she is a licensed psychotherapist with 20 years of experience in the sex therapy field you don't look old enough to have 20 years experience we'll get back to it she's been featured in hundreds of articles in places like harper's bazaar allure oprah magazine and the new york times her weekly podcast pillow talks covers all things sex and intimacy and you can pick up her book in early the show vanessa moran thank you guys so much for having me i'm so excited to be here we're so excited to have you we just found out that you have two pugs i do a black and a tan and it takes me back it's rain is the only type of dog she likes is a pair of pugs that are different colors that's really they cuddle and it's so adorable well when you guys come out to the west coast you can come meet them we absolutely will they're definitely the most interesting thing about me and we also learned that your husband had two last names and you have obviously last name like everybody and you picked between the three and you both changed the last names i love everything about you guys oh thank you yeah i didn't want to just have to default change my name because i'm the woman and so he had that hyphenated name we said okay we have three options let's pick and i thought marin was the prettiest yeah and you let us know that it's a lot harder for a man to change his last name in general so anybody that's listening make your man do that if you want to make his life harder yeah um well we found you because actually we were looking for people to do some sex into these videos for the app and we had a couple listeners who suggested you and your husband who do a podcast together so i would just love to hear a little bit more about you introduce yourself to the listeners who are what you do yeah yeah so my name is vanessa i'm a sex therapist i have a business together with my husband xander and we really focus on helping couples keep the spark alive in long-term relationships so we've got yeah all sorts of stuff that we're doing and we're on instagram we have the podcast we're writing the book we are just really passionate about this topic um like you guys know like you're like what do you want to talk about i'm like here's a list of a hundred things that i would be so stoked to talk about so i just love doing this work and i'm really glad to be here i'm curious we want to hear the story about you and your husband too and you share this in the book and i think it's probably a lot of people's story too that people will be able to relate to but i'm also just curious about you working together and like living together being together like live work and play together it's a lot i mean you guys know it's a lot yeah well we don't want to sleep the other night we have like a friendship and working together the business and you know it's like a lot of stuff but yeah i mean it is a lot but you know we love spending time together i think that's really what makes it work and we have really good communication as well so that's made it work but we kind of fell into this he was working for google he had like a long career in tech and hr and we ended up moving we were in san francisco at the time we moved to berlin and he just wanted to take some time off and kind of figure out what his next move was and i just asked him to help me put together an excel spreadsheet for tracking some things and that was sort of how he fell into helping out with the business so he was doing all the behind the scenes stuff for a couple of years and i kept bugging him saying you know we're a real couple and we go through real struggles of our own like i think we should talk about this together because it's one thing for me as a professional to be like talking to people i like, well, yeah, you're a sex therapist, you have all this training, of course, that's easy for you. But I just thought there's something really valuable about being able to share as a real couple. So it took me a few years to convince him to like come in front of the camera and do the podcast with me. But now we get really great feedback from people saying like, I appreciate your vulnerability. And it just normalizes all these things that all couples go through. It makes me feel like I'm not alone. And it just opens up the conversation between partners easier too when they see like another couple talking about it. Absolutely. I love that. So you guys were in a place where you were dating. You were not married yet. Right. And your sex life just like took a steep dive off a cliff and you went to therapy about it. Yes. Okay. Yes. You know, I tell the story in the book and I'm like, there's nothing very unusual about this story. I feel like everyone in a relationship has some version of like things were hot and heavy and then life kind of catches up to you. And so we just got into this phase of we were both working really late. We had a lot of responsibilities. We weren't making time for each other and we were having very little sex. And when we did have sex, it was very boring. It was kind of predictable. It wasn't very pleasurable. It just felt kind of icky and disconnected. And we had never had to talk about sex before because things were so great. So they were like hot and heavy at the beginning. Yeah. Okay. And I think it gave that impression of like, oh, it's so good. We don't even have to talk about it. And I think that's what a lot of us are going for in relationships. Like we think that if I don't have to say anything, this is a good sign. And so we got into that tough point in our relationship and realized we had no skills or like techniques to draw upon because we'd never talked about it before. So all those initial conversations that we had just immediately went into fights. Like you never initiate, well, you don't seem to care about me having an orgasm, you know, because we just didn't have any communication foundation to fall back on. I'm so intrigued by it. I mean, not, not intrigued because it's just so normal. I just feel like people are listening like, same, that's me. Yeah. Right. So I dragged his ass to therapy. I was like, you know, this is a deal breaker for me. Like we are not resolving this. So he very begrudgingly went to therapy. I mean, he was not into it. And I start off the books talking about that first session of just even sitting in that therapist's office, realizing I don't even know what to say. Like, I don't know how to describe this. I don't even fully know what I want. I just want not this. So it was really hard to, to just like figure out where to go from there. We have done some really great episodes with Ian Kerner and Emily Morris and everybody. Every time we pull people, what do you want to hear from a sex therapist? They say, I have either a mismatched libido with my partner, or we used to have this hot and heavy sex life and we just don't anymore. And I don't know how to approach it. I think the advice so much, not from those people or you, but the advice in general is like, well, just talk about it. And it's like, but I don't know how to talk about it. I don't, is scheduling sex weird? Is it weird if I'm just like, let's throw on a porn and we've never watched a porn before. A lot of these things aren't actionable. They're just like, just talk about it. Yeah. I mean the idea of like, we need to talk about it. Everybody knows that already. There's nothing new about that. But what really bothered me and what drove me to write the book, we actually wrote it together, was that there's so few pieces of advice about like, well, what do I say? How do I say it? When do I say it? And so I really love getting very nitty gritty and practical with people. I think like that's the most important thing. Cause if you give that generic advice, it just makes people feel even shittier. They're like, oh, all I'm supposed to do is like, just talk about it. Like just relax and stop thinking about it. So I really wanted to give people much more actionable, like specific things to do. So that's why the book is really full of specific conversations to have and conversation prompts and examples of how to say things. So what would you say, if you don't mind, like sharing a little bit more, was there one underlying issue? Was it just that like life got in the way and then you didn't have the tools to figure out or like, what helped? Like, is there a way to just give the short answer here? I mean, I know we know it's all in the book, but. Yeah. I mean, there really wasn't anything in particular that was going on. Oh, he must smell the dogs. Yeah. Yeah. There wasn't anything specific that was coming up. It really was just a classic case of like life got busy. We weren't prioritizing it. We didn't know what to do. And so I think that really is the case for the majority of people. It's like, there's not one. There's not one thing that goes horribly wrong. It's just kind of like a cascade of tiny little things that start to snowball and really become a big problem. How many years into the relationship did you go to therapy for this? We went for a couple of months. But how long had you been together? Oh, we had been together for about two years at that point. Because I think some people are like, well, is this weird that I even think about this after two years? But I'm sure a lot of people hit that mark. I have after two years. Like, I just don't fucking use that fun anymore. Yeah. I think we've all experienced. And it's this sense of grief almost. Like, what happened to us? It was so great at the beginning. Like, the chemistry seemed good. I do want to say, like, some people don't have that hot and heavy stage. And that's normal. And that's okay, too. But I think for so many of us who do, it's, yeah, this sense of loss. It's a confusion. Like, what happened? And it used to feel so effortless. And now it feels like it takes so much work. And I think that's another thing that scares us, too. In the book, I call it the fucking fairy tale, that this is what we see sex in TV, movies, porn. Like, sex always seems completely effortless. It just happens. It's spontaneous. Nobody's ever talking about it. And so we all crave that feeling of effortlessness. And when it starts to get trickier in our relationships, it starts to feel really scary. It's like, well, this isn't what it's supposed to be. And this can't be, like, this maybe isn't my person. So I think a lot of us end up ending relationships at that time, too. I mean, I definitely thought about it at the time. Yeah. Now we're, obviously, relationships are work forever. But did you feel like it was just a lot of work during those few months and now it is a little bit easier? Or do you feel like it's a constant, we need to communicate, see where we're at, check in? Or has it gotten back to a place where it does feel a little more natural, less work has to be put into it? Yeah. I'm laughing because it's making me remember this meme that I saw last week. I'm not even sure who it was, but it was, like, a couple of lesbians. And they're like, heterosexual people are always talking about, like, relationships. There's so much work. Like, they're just, like, totally mocking us. So, yeah, I mean, I do think like, they're like, you signed up for this, Richard. So, like, the difference that we came across is, like, how do we find ways of working on it that, like, can feel fun? So it doesn't need to feel like this big, heavy, like, okay, let's go work on our relationship again. But, like, what are simple things that we can do, like, every day that take very little effort? Very little time. But it keeps that thread going between us so that it doesn't feel like it's always this heavy, like. Well, and it's sex. So it should be, like, the reward is great. You know, it's not that, like, you sit down and work out your finances. Like, you're working out your sex life. The reward is right. It's orgasm. Yeah. Yeah. So let me ask you. So, you know, for couples that are, I would say, like, quote, unquote, just ordinary, like, there isn't. A parent hasn't died. There isn't extreme panic over, like, money or jobs. If it's just day-to-day, like, I'm just a little tired of this or a little bored of this. Like, where do you start the conversation? Because I want to say that, like, I understand that certain real traumas in your life and stress make you, of course, not want to have sex. And that's a different conversation. Yeah, absolutely. Okay. So let me start off by telling you guys what typically happens. So people don't have these experiences talking about sex in relationships. We wait until things get really bad. And it gets to the point where we've got all this anger, resentment, frustration, confusion, fear boiling over. And we end up doing exactly what Xander and I are doing, is, like, the first conversation is a massive fight, right? And, of course, that only reinforces, like, ooh, sex is a bad thing to talk about. Because if we have to talk about it, it's bad. We're going to get in a fight. Things are not going well. So instead, my recommendation, which is the first conversation in the book, is to start with just the acknowledgement that you guys are having sex. Like, it is wild how few couples have been together years, even decades, and never really had an honest conversation about their sex life. Like, we just do not talk about it. So for so many couples, it's literally just got to start with having that topic be a more comfortable, like, part of your conversation. So that's some of the feedback that we've gotten about our Instagram account, because we show up in stories together every day. And people say, like, you know, it actually really helped us just to start talking about sex in a more general sense, rather than starting to talk about our sex life specifically. So having those conversations where you're not trying to solve anything, you're not making any requests, you're not giving any complaints, you're literally just talking about sex and getting comfortable with it as a topic of conversations. That's the best starting point. Like, what is talking about sex? How do we talk about sex? I can't not talk about sex, so I can't relate. Yeah. Like, what are we talking about here? I know, for you guys, I'm not going to relate with this conversation. No, we do. We do. I've had this for a living. I've had these problems in my life, of course. Okay, so my favorite starting point is literally with compliments. So I lay out in that first chapter to bring up, just randomly, out of the blue, like, one of your favorite sexual memories with your partner. So, like, give them a compliment. Say, like, you know what just randomly popped into my head the other day? Or, you know what I had a dream about last night? That time that we da-da-da-da-da, you know? And so you're recalling a memory. You're reminding each other, like, hey, we have had really great sex. Remember we do, and we can be good at it. Okay, that's perfect. It's a positive memory. You know, it's going to be a positive experience. And then, so keep that going for, like, every day, every other day, for, like, a week or two weeks, where you're just giving your partner a compliment. Like, you look so good today. It doesn't have to even. be explicitly sexual you look really good today I was thinking of that time that you did this to me I love the way you kiss me the way you hold me so you're just like laying that groundwork and again it's not any sort of like don't do that or I need you to do this it's like just putting the conversation on the table and hopefully they're receptive yeah I mean they might say like you know like wait why are you bringing that up and that's fine like the point is not that you're like trying to catch them off guard and they don't realize what they're talking about but you can just say something like it just popped into my head and it was a fun memory and I figured I'd share it with you well and we always say things like that you can fib a little you can say a dream and you can say like I walked by that movie theater today where I blew you something that reminds you you know so-and-so called and reminded me of the time at their wedding when we you know had that hot sex or this hotel or vacation or anything like that you just want to create this positive association when we start talking about sex it's a good thing I feel good I'm getting compliments I'm remembering good memories that we shared okay okay and then if they're not picking up what you're putting down if you're like this is a little more broken than I thought it was what's the next step or what's the next step in general if it's going well yeah when do you kind of start to repair yeah I mean it's really going to be dependent on where each couple is like are they even in a place where they're like there's something going on that I don't want to be doing or you know I think in general it can be a lot better to start with making like positive requests rather than immediately going into the like complaints and we can get into like the nuance of like some complaints are more urgent than others and we can get into those first but I think going into like making any sort of positive requests of like you know I really love when we go so slow like this is one of the biggest complaints I hear from women is like we just jump right into the intercourse and there's like very little in it for me so making a request in a positive way of like I love when we go so slow can we do that next time something like that you told me something on the phone that I want to validate you said that like some women are like I don't like that we just jump into it you said that you hold people and that what 90% of women said their favorite part of sex is not the penetrative part of it it's like everything else yeah 91% of women we said like is intercourse like your favorite activity that you guys do together of women who have sex with men and 91% of them said no there's something else that I prefer and this is I mean it's so important to recognize like our bodies are not the same as our bodies are not the same as our bodies are not the same as our bodies are not really wired to feel a lot of sensation or to have orgasms from penetration alone but it's something that most women don't know and so they feel like something is horribly wrong horribly broken with them and they're having sex it feels like there's nothing in it for me I'm not enjoying it it's just kind of I'm laying there staring at the ceiling while my partner is jackhammering away like what's wrong with me that I don't love this it's very funny because I'm thinking of some men learning this stat and being like what's wrong with me that I don't love this what like I'm thinking of if you pulled a hundred men and they'd be like what do you think the best part of the sexual experience is for you and your partner he'd be like when I'm fucking her when my dick's inside of her and women are like no honey no sweetie no Richard sorry Charles it is so true though I mean even what we do with our erotic app we have these erotic audio stories and if there are ten minutes two minutes of the story is that you know so much of it is like the build-up and the foreplay and all those types of things yeah absolutely and so that's not to say that intercourse can't be pleasurable or feel very intimate and you know enjoyable but I think it's so important for us to recognize it's just not how women's bodies are really wired to work and the foreplay what we I actually hate the word foreplay because I think it implies like these are the things we do beforehand like intercourse is the main thing and we just do like the quick little foreplay beforehand but I know everybody uses that word so well do you have another word I don't I keep trying to think of none I'm like other people use core play and I'm like okay that's all right but yeah that sounds a little like hardcore it sounds more like a workout to me like I went to the core play class yeah I'm so sore today solid core class if anybody has a better name for it let me know can I ask a question I want to know your answer so when you masturbate is it to thoughts of penetrative sex or is it to thoughts of penetrative sex or is it to thoughts of like other stuff besides like actually telling you masturbate I mean sometimes it's like the full circle experience but the way that I would start conjuring up a memory is not with being penetrated right away it's like that pushing me up against a wall or something like that or something that like got me in the mood oh yeah me too so I'm like that's how I feel like so much my masturbation is like my head the thoughts going through my head are not like dick and vagina just slamming away 30 years you want to masturbate to dick and vagina I don't even want to put anything in my vagina even in my fantasies you're just on my clit my porn was all clit I only incorporated a penis into the porn I watch during the pandemic because I just missed it so much and here's one of like the terrible things that happens in heterosexual sex too is like when we start having issues a lot of guys think like okay you know we're not having sex that often maybe she's turning me down a lot so when you do get a yes a lot of guys are like well let me get a yes and then you're like get right to it before she changes her mind kind of thing and so a lot of couples end up like just shortening that time of the build-up and it just goes straight to the intercourse which just creates even more of this negative cycle of like I'm not enjoying this sex that we're having so why would I crave it so we're gonna have less of it you know it's just a really awful cycle well and if there's weird stuff going on in your relationship where there's tension or resentment it makes you want to be so intimate even less it almost forces you to be more intimate and you're like oh my god I don't want to have sex with him I don't want to have sex with him I don't want to have sex with him quick inner intercourse as opposed to like touching and feeling and all the romanticism when you're kind of resentful of your partner as it stands in the first place for sure it's really easy to be like oh just do your thing yeah just get it over with type of thing do you hear that a lot from couples that like it becomes a little robotic after a certain amount of time like I remember thinking my longest term ex it was like the same menu all the time I would like wake up I'd blow him I'd get on top he'd get on top we'd both be done I'd have to do it again for seven days exactly grilled yeah you can like script it out to the moment like he's gonna touch my breast and this way for like 10 seconds and then like you know exactly what's coming so of course like sex drive is one of the biggest complaints that people have they're always like I have no sex drive what do I do and the first question I ask people is well tell me about the quality of the sex that you're having is it something that's worth craving and I think so few of us make that connection between our enjoyment of it and our desire for it but for 95 percent of people it's like you describe to me what your sex life looks like okay makes perfect sense why you have zero desire for it why would you right yeah so I mean again we don't we don't have like all day with you and people can read your book and they can also seek therapy themselves but the book is about these conversations that you have about sex can we just discuss like another one that you really love yeah so the second one is what do we need to feel connected and I think this is another really important piece that gets left out of this conversation like we talk about sex in a lot of different ways but I think one of the things that I think is really important is that when we talk about sex in a lot of different ways we talk about it in a lot of different ways like when we talk about it in a lot of different ways like when we talk about it in a lot of different ways like when we talk about it in a lot of different ways like when we talk about it in a lot of different just kind of like here in my space. Why were you going to feel the desire to be wildly intimate with them later that night? So that conversation is all about like uncovering practical ways that you can still feel connected to your partner. So it feels like you're not starting from ice cold and trying to get yourself to boiling, but there's like a simmer going between the two of you. And can that be things that aren't sexual at all? Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I think that a lot of couples are just missing any sort of emotional intimacy, like little non-sexual touches, compliments, like, you know, spending quality time together. A lot of like love languages type stuff can come up here. So that's a great one. Compliments are such like, I feel like I see so many couples that don't do that with each other. And the couples that I like the most, like it's our friends' husbands that are like, my wife looks so hot. Look at the way she dresses. She's a fucking fox. Like, I feel like I don't see that in so many couples. When I do, it's like so nice and refreshing. I'm like, I don't care. You just have to tell me I'm funny. I mean, it's nice to like get a compliment personally, but I think there's also something special about the way your partner talks about you in front of other people. Oh my gosh, totally. I mean, we can all, I'm sure, think of examples of couples where it's like, they're just ragging on each other the whole time or like, you know, complaining or ignoring each other. And then when you see somebody exactly like what you were saying, like, my wife is so fucking hot. You're like, oh, that's so cute. We love to hear. What people say about us behind our backs, like nice stuff. Like, I feel like that's a turn on. Yeah. Huge turn on. Should we move on to how to tell someone what you don't like, what they're doing in the bedroom and redirect. And we want to discuss actual actionable language and things that you can do when you're like, stop doing that. Why would you do that? Okay. So let me set a little groundwork here. So I like to divide these into three categories. So at one end of the spectrum, we have what I actually call, like sexual perfectionism territory. And I'll get back to that in a sec. The other end of the spectrum is like, actual boundary or safety issues. And then we've got this like delightful gray area in the middle where I think we'll spend most of our time. But so the sexual perfectionism thing is I've actually found that a lot of people, because of the fucking fairy tale, we have this idea that every moment of sex should just be passionate and intense and feel so good. But the reality is like, it's totally normal for your pleasure and your connection to kind of rise and fall throughout an interaction. Like, let's say for example, if Xander is going down on me and there's a moment where it just like, it's not feeling as good. I'm not going to jump in right in that moment and be like, stop doing that. Go back to this. Go do that instead. Like that's going to feel intimidating for me because then I'm going to feel like I'm having to correct him every two minutes. It's going to feel shitty for him because he feels like he's getting like, you know, jumped on. So instead I think those can be good territory to just kind of like wait it out for a minute. So not put this pressure that every single moment has to be wildly pleasurable. Cause like, you don't want that pressure for yourself either. Like I have to do such a good job to my partner that like the connection never wanes for a second. Right. So it's like just wait it out in those kinds of situations and just nine times out of 10, it's going to get better in that moment, you know, in the next couple of moments. So that's one category. And the one time out of 10, it'll go into the gray area. The other end of the spectrum is if something's happening, that's like a boundary or safety issue. So let's say it's something that you don't feel comfortable doing. It's causing you pain in the moment. Have you guys done a sexual pain episode? No. No. Oh my God. I have a, I have a good guest for you. Okay. Um, 30% of women were in pain the last time they had sex. Now, isn't that wild? In different ways? Are we talking about just that they have like vaginal pain or something that their partner was doing was causing them pain or both or either? Um, yeah. Usually something their partner was doing, like it's typically with penetration. Can that 30%? Can that change? Cause I, I feel like when I was a little young, I used to be in pain. I used to be in pain. I used to be in pain a lot during sex, not excruciating, but it, I don't feel like that anymore. Yeah. It can change, but there are a lot of like sexual pain conditions. This is another thing that does not get talked about. We should definitely do an episode on this. And then also of course, sometimes just high level, it's just you need lube. Yes. Yeah. I mean, that's one of the quick solution fixes for it, but yeah. It's not everybody's problem, but I mean, I've been in pain where I'm like, oh, I just need more lube and that's why we sell a great lube. It was probably because I didn't like the sex I was having, honestly. Probably could have been part of it. Yeah. Yeah. There are a lot of potential causes for it, but I think as women, we're kind of taught to just like, let it happen and just continue. A lot of us think that like pain just is a part of sex. That just is what it is. So I just like to be super clear of like, no, you should never be in pain and you're going to destroy your sex drive if you're having sex when you're in pain too. Yeah. So if you're in pain, if somebody is crossing a boundary, doing something you don't want to do, that's a moment where it's just like, you just have to speak up in that moment and say something like, I need to change something up. That's not on the menu for me tonight. Like, that's not something that I feel interested in doing tonight. Something like that, but be really clear and directive. And it doesn't have to be a, you know, a slap in the face, like, fuck you for doing that kind of thing. But just like, yeah, that's not really something that I'm open to doing tonight or I'd like to switch things up right now. Or I need to take a break and not do this. Your partner's doing something that you're not loving is you're always going to get better results when you're making your request if you frame it positively than if you make a negative complaint. And that's true inside the bedroom and just generally in life. So try to figure out what is a way that you can give some positive feedback to your partner instead of making a complaint. If you're at the early stages of a relationship or you're just starting to have more communication about sex, give your partner a ton of compliments. This is where we, like, get back to the compliments thing. Like, a lot of times if you're giving your partner enough good feedback, you might not get to a point where there even is something, like, super negative that they're doing because you've given them feedback of, like, I love when you go slow like that. I like it when you touch me. I prefer you going down on me versus fingering me. So that kind of stuff. But in the moment, we want to think about what's a way that I can kind of positively redirect somebody. And I will say people get a little bit resistant to this because we have that fucking fairy tale in our head. Mm-hmm. Like, our partner's just supposed to know what to do, just supposed to magically figure it out. And sometimes we feel like, I don't even know what I want or what to ask for. But I do think it's really important for us to recognize, like, that responsibility is on us to figure it out. We can't expect our partners to be mind readers. And we wouldn't want to be expected, you know, of that in reverse either. So really trying to think about, okay, how is a way that I can frame this? So it might be something like, oh, that softer pressure that you were using a minute ago, like, that felt good. That felt so good. Will you go back to doing that? Something like that. Okay. So you're giving them a compliment, but you're giving them a little bit of a direction with it as well. Okay. Okay. So something, and we do want to, we want to give, like, better techniques for doing some of these things. Something that I've struggled with with a couple guys is they want to stick a finger in my ass during sex, and I hate it. Like, I really, it takes me out of the moment. I don't like it. But if that's going to, like, really turn them on, I want to find ways that, like, maybe I could find it more pleasurable, you know? Because, like, if that's really where you want to be, for the finger in my butthole, every time you're coming to me, I'm going to be like, oh, my God. I'm coming. Fine. I can figure out how to enjoy this more. But, like, all I've ever conjured is, like, stop doing that. I hate that. Don't do that anymore. Yeah. I mean, that sounds like it's a pretty strong feeling for you, where you're just like, I don't like that. I don't want that to happen. So I can appreciate that you're wanting to be, like, a generous partner. You're like, okay, if this is something you're really into, let me see if I can find ways to enjoy it. So there could be a compromise. Like, maybe there's something, like, your partner's just touching your butthole instead of going into it. Yeah. If you keep coming up against this, like, don't do that. I hate it. I don't like it. Like, I would say don't force yourself to push your boundaries. Yeah. Sounds like you have a pretty clear sense of, like, what you like and don't. Well, I mean, for sure. That's, I guess, obviously, that's a turn-on for them. But, like, it's probably more of what they think you want. Like, what guys, like, really just love to stick a finger in the butt. Like, they probably just think that's what you want or they think it's hot in some way. But they can definitely do without it. It's not like they're getting off by their finger. There's not that much sensation in your fingertip where it's like, oh, it feels so good up there. I feel like you can, if they're also, I mean, I slept with a guy that was, like, such a butt guy that I was like, do you even know that I have tits? Like, or do you know that I have anything else going on in my body besides my butt? Like, all he wanted to do was, like, be back there, everything to do with it. So, I feel like if it's that, they could, like, spank you. They can, like, you know, be kind of in the crack a little bit. They can do more stuff with your butt than stick a finger in the hole. I like the rimming idea, actually. Totally. Because, like, they can still feel like they're, like, butthole adjacent or, like, around it. Yeah. Also, I have no problem telling somebody, don't fucking put your fingers there. Like, I'll draw a boundary anytime I need to, but I was trying to compromise. And I feel like a little butthole play, I could get behind a little more. Okay. So, if there's something that, like, your partner's doing in the moment and you just cannot figure out a way to, like, how do I redirect or, like, change this into something positive, you can do the, like, hey, look over there technique that I like to call it. What? Just tell your partner, hold up, let me focus on you for a second. So, you're changing things up. Just, like, giving you the opportunity for a total reset. Wait, but listen. I just feel like men are, like, some of their dumb brains would be, like, okay, so every time I put a finger in her butt, I get a blowjob? Like, they're going to think that they're being rewarded. There's not classical conditioning going on here. You just do it sparingly. Okay. And have a bigger conversation if they keep going to the butt. It's a little bit of a last ditch effort, but it can be, like, a great, if you're just really stuck in that moment, like, let me just focus on you for a moment, because that feels really sexy. Who wouldn't want? I wouldn't want you to focus on them for a second. And it just gives you the opportunity to, like, reset the moment. Yes. And you might be able to figure out some positive feedback or some coaching to give to your partner while you're doing it. So, you might say something like, let's say you're going down on your partner. He's a guy. And you can, like, lick the tip of his head and see, like, hey, do you like the way I'm licking you? I want you to do this to me next. So, you're actually, like, teaching him a little technique in the moment. Or it could be more broad, like, do you like when I go nice and slow? Do you like when I go nice and slow like this? I want you to do that to me next. Okay. So, it could be super specific or it can be general, but it's a very sexy way of giving your partner a little bit of information. I think we, I'm just trying to think of what we see the most questions, complaints, emails, messages about. I mean, a lot of it is oral sex and either that they aren't going down there or they're doing it totally wrong. They can't find the clit. I mean, I think that that can be, like, I love what you're doing. It just needs to be what? Fire up. Like, I don't know. I feel like I've never really experienced where a guy really has no idea what is going on down there. Oh, I have. It's not pleasant. Yeah. I mean, so, one great resource that we have is we have these foreplay guides where we have super specific and detailed illustrated techniques. And so, we love recommending couples get those together because it really levels the playing field. You feel like you're both kind of, like, learning new techniques together and you can try things out together. It makes it feel fun to learn. It makes it feel fun to learn new techniques rather than, like, oh, my God, now I've got to teach you what to do. But another technique that you can do, I call it the eye exam technique. Like, you know when you go get an eye exam and they're like, okay, what's better? Like, this one or this one kind of thing. So, compare two techniques against each other. So, it gives you a little bit of information to go off of because, like, if you ask somebody, tell me what you like. Like, that just feels like a really big question. It's hard to answer. Like, I can't give a super step-by-step, like, do exactly this and then exactly that. Like, it's just, it's too big of a question. But if Xander's going down on me and he's like, he's like, okay, what do you like better? If I lick like this or I lick like that, I use this pressure with my tongue or I use this pressure with my tongue. Then it's like, I have options to choose from. And he's not feeling like I'm criticizing him because I'm picking the one that's better. Right. And it's like this fun kind of, we're exploring together, trying different things. So you can switch off, like I'll do it to you and then you do it to me. But if you compare your different techniques and again, it can be specific stroke. It can be pressure. It can be speed. It can be like two completely different activities. Like, do you like it better when I finger you or go down on you? But it's just a more fun way to explore and give that feedback to each other. Okay. I love that. I'm assuming also I'm thinking of other things. I bet there's a lot of like guys putting their finger inside of you because they think that's what they're supposed to do. So I like that a lot. But you mean during when somebody goes down on you? Yeah. Especially younger. I feel like we have talked about this, like the term finger, and some people don't know exactly. I mean, it can mean putting your fingers inside, but some women don't like that. And they're like, you're supposed to be like playing with my clit or like the outside as opposed to like just jamming your fingers inside of me. So I feel like that can be a little difficult to redirect. Yeah. So that can be a fun one of like, oh, do you like it better when I put my fingers inside of you on your clit or I do both at the same time? So that could be something to explore. But yeah, I think a lot of men, I mean, and they're, again, they're conditioned by TV, movies, porn to believe, the penetration is like the be all end all. So the funny comparison that I like to make is like, it's really important for us to think about it from a nerve ending standpoint of like, what parts of our bodies are actually wired to feel a lot of pleasure? And the interesting thing too is that our genitals, we all start off basically as one gender in the womb and our genitals don't differentiate until like eight to 11 weeks. So different parts of our genitals actually match up with different parts of like male genitals. So the vagina, the equivalent of the vagina in a woman is actually called the prostatic utricle in a man, which is like where no man is out there expecting like, where are my prostatic utricle orgasms? Like, how do I get that? So that all sounds a little complicated. So I like to boil it down and just say like intercourse for a woman is basically like stroking a man's balls. So like, sure, that might be fun. It could be pleasurable. If you have balls that are really sensitive, great. Great. Explore that. Play with those balls. But would we expect the vast majority of men to be wildly orgasmic from a little ball stroking? No. So why are we setting this expectation for women that we should be wildly orgasmic from a part of our body that just does not have very many nerve endings? Uh-huh. Uh-huh. That's interesting to think about. So guys get that a little bit more. I'm like, let's imagine an alternate universe where intercourse is like a guy rubbing his balls on a woman's clitoris. You know, like I'm getting the stimulation of the most sensitive part of the body. And you're getting stimulation of a very insensitive part of your body. Like why is that not working for you? Yeah. Yeah. I would get off instantly. You could rub anything on my clit. And I also like just taking someone's hand gently, but I think it can be hot. I mean, I don't know. Maybe I think that to do that in like a sexy way, just like moving someone a little bit from like where they were previously. Sometimes I think you can do it without words, but if it's, you know, you got to feel the moment out. Yeah. I liked, I like a request. I love stick your fingers inside of me. I like when somebody goes down on me and it's like sucking on my clit and fingering me. I like the whole shebang. But what if, what if somebody is like, my man just doesn't go down on me at all? Yeah. That's where it's going to be time to like make a direct request of them. And so I always like to start again with framing it in a positive way. Like, you know, it sounds so hot to me, or again, we can do a little bit of fibbing. Like I had this incredibly sexy dream last night about you going down on me. I can't get it out of my mind. Like I would love for you to do that. Um, you can even turn it into this fun thing about like, you know, why don't we have a little oral only night tonight? Like I'll go down on you, you go down on me. So you make it feel playful rather than coming in hot with the like you motherfucker. You never go down on me. I'm so pissed. You don't care, you know, like make it more fun. And I, I'm sure there's also a world, especially if we're talking to younger people that they just are intimidated because they don't think they know what they're doing. And they've heard women say like, he's so bad at this and he can't find the clit. And so they've gotten in their head. And they were never really taught. I don't know how you really learn. I don't know how guys learn. I don't know if it's like, yeah. Another story that I tell in the book is at this same time, I was noticing that like Xander just really wasn't paying very much attention to my pleasure. It was very intercourse focused. He wasn't really like he'd touch me or go down on me for like 30 seconds and then we'd move on. And I kept getting the sense of like, God, this was actually a bit earlier in the relationship. I'm like, God, this guy seems so amazing in so many other ways. But like, he kind of seems like he's not paying much attention to me. And I'm like, God, this guy seems so amazing in the bedroom. And I don't understand what's going on. And so I finally got up the nerve to talk to him about it. And it turned out his last girlfriend before me had said like, she had a lot of orgasm issues. And she's like, actually, it really puts women on the spot if you like finger them and go down on them for a long time. So like, it's the more polite thing to do to just move ahead. And so he was thinking he was being this nice guy of like, oh, I've got the cheat code to women. And I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I was over here thinking like, God, this guy is such an asshole. So again, this is like why I'm so passionate about communication. Like I could have very easily broken up with him. Like this guy is a selfish asshole in the bedroom. I'm over it. But instead, by just opening up that conversation, I realized like there was this awful miscommunication. I don't know why this woman said that to him in the first place. But like, it was very easy for us to reset from there and realize like, oh, you want me to go down on you? Oh, my God, I'm totally happy to do that. Well, we say that all the time that people are just a product of the partners they've had before you. And what pleasure, if we're talking about a man, what his girlfriend, girlfriends before you liked. I mean, Raina doesn't like guys going down on her for some insane reason. So if a guy dated her for a long period of time, especially very seriously, especially if, you know, it was his first serious relationship, but you just didn't like it, he absolutely would think the next partner just didn't like it. So I'm glad that you brought that up because we have discussed that before. And how they're just going off the last one. And sometimes I think what we like to hammer home to especially any men listening is like every woman's body is different. So just because you blew some woman's mind doesn't mean what you're doing is going to blow the mind of the next one. And I think it's important for women to recognize too, like it's very sexy to tell your partner what you want. You know, like we're all desperate for more feedback and in the bedroom, like we all want to know, am I doing a good job? Am I doing a good job? Do you like this? What do you, what could I do to be the best that you've ever had? Right. And so we get so scared on the other end of that of like, oh, I don't want to give feedback. I don't want to tell him anything, but like that it's so valuable to hear that. And a lot of people are just desperate to hear, like, I would love for you to do this to me. You would turn me on so much if you did this. It turns me on to turn another person on. I mean, that's what I really enjoy. And I think kind feedback is great. I don't mind at all. And I think how I would want it if I was like giving a blowjob to somebody and they, stopped me at any point. I don't think I'd love that. Or if, you know, right after sex, they were like, I didn't really enjoy that experience. Like it would really hurt or upset me. And I feel like there's just kinder ways to bring it up, but I am happy for the feedback because then I'm like, how great is this? I get to like be even better at this for you. Yeah, absolutely. Another great word that you can use too, when you're making requests is like, just use the word curious. I'm curious about trying this. I'm curious to see what this would be like, because sometimes when we give feedback, like it can set up this dynamic of like, I'm the teacher and you're the student. And there's this power imbalance of like, now I'm coming in here and like teaching you what to do or telling you what to do. But if you use the word curious, it just kind of, it levels that playing field again. And it makes it feel like your partner's not being judged. It's like, oh, well, they're just curious to see. And it gives you a little bit more space too of like, well, I don't have to guarantee that I'm going to like something in order to ask for it. I just have to like be curious enough to know what it's going to be like. Okay. So we wanted to talk about a little bit of like technique and we'd have on our list, spanking, choking. I sent her an email with this yesterday and I was like, this is our work emails. Yeah. Well, so I, it's funny because I've been doing a lot of, um, just research in my standup of asking guys if they're choking. And I have this whole thing that like Gen Z is just not choking like millennials do and older guys do. And I don't know if they're scared or they're timid or they're not sure what to do. Yeah. Well, we can't, you know, we of course consent, but I just, I think it's intimidating too. You know, and I think of course not all women want a hand on their neck, but yeah, I've been kind of interested in this topic of guys that are like, I would never do that. And it's like, you should try to get into it. Bad sander. No, it was so funny. I got your email and we were having breakfast this morning. I was like, let's run through the topics that they want me to talk about. So we're like loudly talking about spanking. He got all excited, like, oh, don't forget to tell him to do dah, dah, dah, dah. Just like yelling about spanking and choking in the middle of this restaurant. Oh my gosh. Great. It's been spanking. I mean, I, I love it. I've always loved spanking. And I'll tell someone to do it. And I, I usually get what I want, but I also see a world in which a guy, for example, has never done that. And he's like, you want me to hit you? Yeah. Like Xander got really nervous about the choking and he's like, you know, I've only ever seen it in porn where it's like, it's really aggressive and it feels like violating and creepy and gross. And like, I'm nervous. I don't want to hurt you. It just doesn't sound right. So let's start with choking. So, which also we do choking tutorials at our shows too. So we're kind, if you've used two hands, you have gone too far. I always tell guys, I'm like, don't go top two hands then you're just strangling and that's maybe someone want it i don't i i was surprised we've had to tell people don't come from behind with both hands oh gosh no no no we did this at the show we were in phoenix and we brought these guys up and raina was the waiters at the venue yeah there was not enough guys so we brought the staff up and this one guy raina was like why don't you show show us how you would choke ashley and he was like okay and he came from behind with both and we have this image of me like this and the way he thought he knew exactly what he was doing yeah he stepped right up to the plate he ran there but then like andrew collin for example a friend of ours i did his podcast like years ago and he was like can you just show me like how how you do it and at first he did too much pressure the fingertips i was like you gotta do like a cuff yes exactly don't want to take your trachea nothing on the front of the throat it's only the sides of this and you can do this to yourself like the sides of your throat are pretty tough but even the slightest bit of pressure on the front of your throat and you're like starting to chill yeah i'm like it's my whip blacking out okay so anyway so if you if you're a guy who's nervous about it and you've never done it before like a really great way to ease your way into it is just like start to caress your hand up the neck you don't even have to squeeze it's just like putting a little bit of pressure there and that movement of like you can move from like the breast up to the neck like that's super sexy and you can see if your partner is like responding to that so that's a great way to start but then yeah if you do want to squeeze you want to do it really lightly like i think people underestimate how gentle you can go and still make an impact but again the pressure is only on the sides it's never on the front of the throat i just love everything in my neck area like kissing like hands all the things so i think you can even do that making out like i'd love yeah so we always say like if a guy's got his hand on your neck when you're making out you're like yeah so i think the back of the neck too very underrated but the nape of your hair oh my god so sensitive so i i think that's a good way to do it yeah i think that's a good way to do it yeah this is these are the things we want people to know and i know you know mostly of our audience is women but them even relating to their partner and of course like slipping them this episode it's just it's not as intimidating as you think and it's can you don't have to go zero to 60 yeah if you've never choked somebody before it can start yeah soft soft touch at the neck yeah i mean this is another sneaky way that the sexual perfectionism comes creeping into our sex life is that we all feel like we have to go zero to 60 immediately and it's like there's something really wrong with that and i think that's a good way to do it yeah i think that's a good way to do it really great about taking small steps and easing your way in and there's a lot to explore too like a little gentle caress up your throat can be way more pleasurable than like a tight squeeze so it's like don't don't downplay them as like oh they're little baby steps it's like no they're really sexy fun exciting things that you can do and it's not easy for everybody i've had like experiences where somebody's choking me and their arm is laying against my neck a little bit and it really it feels i mean nobody's trying to be violent with you of course but it feels a little violent or it hurts and i don't know how to stop them because the point is to like be a little bit scary and dangerous well that's what happened to me in greece i was like i'm in a chokehold yeah i'm just gonna let him finish i'll tap out partner i'll tap out if i need when he comes are you faint a little safe word might be good to use too if you're gonna do some like intense choking for sure okay so i like these choking tips let's go to spanking okay so spanking is kind of the opposite where choking a lot of people underestimate like how gently you can do it with spanking a lot of people think that you should go soft no we know also we i people i can't tell you how many times i've been softly spanked and it really gives me the ick when somebody winds up like they're gonna spank you really hard and you just get a tap it is so ick reina's turnoffs include too light of a spank well that's what gives you the ick i completely resonate there's nothing worse there's nothing worse when you think they're winding up for like a real hit and they just graze your butt cheek like they caress it i we do this in our live shows but i get it i get that they're scared to hit you i know well some guys are other guys go way too hard we do this in our live shows sometimes and like i'll be bent over the chair and they will knock the chair over with me and it kind of falls into me i'm like you should get his number yeah actually like catches me i've walked 10 feet from the chair and i'm like this spank i don't know i think that your butt can handle a lot and i i mean i've been at points where i'm like i'm about to come and it does hurt and i'm like i'm sure my ass is like bright red but i'm i'll tell you to stop if i don't want it anymore but i have kind of like gritted my teeth and taken it because i'm like close and it's like that pleasure and pain i mean i just think not everybody can handle that much but i actually have a high pain our asses are equipped to handle to handle it but then sometimes i'm like can you just get the other cheek like i feel so unbalanced yeah switch it up a little bit that's the one with the dent in it like just do their left cheek focused okay also you have to spank me like you mean it dirty talk too i feel like i can tell if you don't mean it you know like when somebody calls me a slut and they don't mean it i can tell we get very fixated on technique with sex but the energy behind that technique is energy okay we have totally derailed you how do you get guys to spank you or anyone to spank you so if you're in a relationship i recommend that you have a little spanking session outside of the bedroom so you can get a sense of the level of pressure that you guys each like because it's too much in the bedroom it's like in the moment where it's either too soft and it gives you the ick or it's too hard and you're like tears coming down your face so do it outside the bedroom i love and have your partner like start kind of soft and work their way up and then tell them the level of pressure that you like so it's like getting a sense this is also a really great trick to use for hand jobs because a lot of women underestimate how much pressure you can use on a penis so you can like grab it and like squeeze and have him like you slowly squeeze tighter and have him tell you like that's the level of pressure that i like wait i love that yeah that's a fun exercise valuable you will be we're doing we're doing hand job squeezing tonight after we watch you'll be shocked by how hard you can go a lot of women are doing like the sad spank equivalent of a hand job just like barely barely barely grazing it yeah so squeeze it like you mean it so okay other things with spanking is like the location is important too like if you're too close into the crack like you can hit the tailbone or you can hit the hip as well so when you're in the moment one thing to do is like use your hand to kind of like caress the butt so we're not spanking yet we're just caressing it and like use that to kind of find the meatiest area that's where we want spanking to happen so use your hand to kind of like find it and then you're like oh my god i'm so tired i'm so tired i'm so tired i'm so tired i'm so tired and then once you've found it like then go in for the spank got it yeah i'm not that i'm the one that's banking but totally i'm thinking of when guys have done that like yes they're finding where they're about to just wind up and if you don't know your target like it's very easy to go off and then you're like funny you do have to like find your target first the fleshy part of the butt and it doesn't when they do it in the wrong part it doesn't even make a good sound you're like oh that felt flat you just smack your side you're like there's no pleasure zones there you're just punching me on the side of my body you gotta find the spot okay okay i want to talk about energy for a second though like what if you're like i just know his energy doesn't say i want to spank you yeah it's that's a tricky one like so you might have to have this conversation with them like asking him like or just giving him that positive feedback of i love it when you spank me i think it's so hot it turns me on so much a lot of guys like get worried about hurting you or like i don't want to do that if it's not good for you i don't want to do that if it's not good for you feels like degrading to you so you might just need to lead with that i love being degraded you know yeah so you literally say that to your partner like that turns me on when you do that when you get into that kind of energy but i think even just talking about like what is the kind of energy that you most like to experience during sex so it's different for everybody it can be different in every moment or like in every interaction but like what is that vibe that you're going for i mean this is another thing couples very rarely talk about but i love picking like pick your five favorite words that you most frequently you know want to experience during sex so is it like curiosity is it exploration is it romance you know they can be totally varied but i think one of the most important ones is enthusiasm like somebody can have the best technique in the world but if you can tell they're just not into it maybe they're not even present in the moment they're just going through the motions like that's some of the worst sex ever yes i dated somebody like that perfect dick great body good looking guy i was just like i don't want to do that i don't want to do that i don't want to do that i was just like are you am i bothering you yeah right and i feel like you hear that with blowjobs where oh yeah i just say i just want you to be enjoying it and i feel like the number one technique for a job if you are enthusiastic about it you can have really shitty technique but if you're really into it he's gonna it's a life hack okay can we just go back to spanking really quick i'm ready to do our spanking whole episode you know what i think it's funny that when guys vary technique it's a quick and they pop back out or they kind of hold their hand there like you know what i'm saying like it's either like they do flap and they hold it or they go and it is funny when they just like they leave their hand but it's also kind of like i think tell me if it kind of compares you wouldn't really understand but like when you do when you get bikini waxed and the second they rip a thing off they put their hand there to like kind of like curve the pain yeah that is the technique is it kind of helps dull the pressure so if you're doing a really intense spank that actually is a good way to like dull it but if you want to feel the pain of it then take the hand away and you'll feel it more like it's funny when you're having sex with someone you're like oh that's their technique uh-huh it's more of a quick pop pop maybe we just end with 69ing I'm going to be honest, guys. I'm just not a 69 fan personally. No, we're not really either. I just kind of like, we wondered if you had any. No, no. I just always have to be honest about that. I'm like, I like the giving or the receiving at one time or the other. Okay, but a great technique for 69ing is try going on your sides instead of top to bottom. So a lot of people don't like 69ing because they're like, somebody's face is always in somebody's ass. And it's just like, it's hard to, if you're the one on top, it's like, it's kind of hard. You're like hovering, but you need to use your hands to brace you up. But you also want to use your hands to like do a blow job or a hand job or whatever it is. So it can be a little bit tricky. But if you flip over onto your sides, you can still have that configuration of like heads are in genitals. But it's a more comfortable position to be in for some people. You've got like an arm that's a little bit more free to help you work. Okay, I love that. Great. That's a great tip. I like just side sex anyway, aside from 69ing. Like wake up in the morning. Yeah. So just kind of take that into your 69ing. Yeah. And also with 69ing, you can do just your hands. So I think a lot of people feel like you have to do oral sex, but like you could do just your hands. Because hands are a lot easier to do as well. And some people just prefer that. So it's fine. It counts if it's just hands. I'm excited for the next person I date to do this hand job night. Yeah. Where I'm just like, harder, harder, how much more? It's just like so funny to me. I think hand jobs are one of the most underrated sex. Yeah. People write them off. No, we love them. I love them. I love to stroke a dick. They're fun to do. And a lot of people are like, oh, he can do it better than I can. No. No. It's very fun to have it done to you. He doesn't have to do it. Isn't that nice? And then he teaches you how to do it. And then, yeah. It's very fun. Oh my gosh, Vanessa, this was so wonderful. Love you. I love this conversation so much. Do you feel like anything was left out you're dying to say? I mean, if I could sit here and talk for five more hours. Okay, I know. We'll have to have you back. We'll do it. In L.A. I would love to. We'll have to catch up in L.A. I'm so excited that you guys are coming out. We are too. We can't wait. Yeah, we'll do. I love all. Your episodes are great. So if people are looking for a podcast to listen to about, you have a 69 episode. You have a squirting episode. I was, you really get granular on a lot of stuff. We have a child-free episode too. I know that that was something that you guys did. That's our most popular one. Wow, really? Yeah. I decided we're going to do child-free. Yeah. Good for you. I loved you. I really want to listen to that because we came at that from obviously two single women. And so I'm definitely going to cue that up and listen to you guys discuss it as a couple. You were so great. This is wonderful. I'm sure everybody's going to want to find you everywhere they can, your website, your Instagram, everything. So tell them and then tell them when the book comes out and everything else they can find. Yeah. So I would love to connect with your audience on Instagram. We're at Vanessa and Xander. Shoot us a DM. Let us know you found out about me on Girls Gotta Eat. We have a ton of information on Instagram too. We do stories, like I was saying, every day. So it's a great way to just get the conversation going. Sometimes we even do stories where- We say things that like, okay, you watch the story and just crank the volume up. So your partner's like in the background and they hear it. They're like, wait, what? What are you talking about? So it's a great way to get it started too. I love that. That's great. I mean, we always say use our podcast as a gateway to a discussion that you want to have. And I like that. Just like crank up the volume on something. We put up a question box. It's like, what's something that you want us to say out loud so you can play it when your partner's in the room? I love that. Your partner comes around the corner. He's like, what was that about choking you, partner? It's a great way to teach your partner something without having to stay. Just play it in the apartment. That is so funny. So come say hi on Instagram. And we have a ton of information on our highlights about all of our different guides and courses, the foreplay guides. We have next level intercourse, all kinds of fun stuff. And then we're also online at vmtherapy.com. It's my initials. The book Sex Talks comes out February. We're so excited about it. And yeah, our podcast Pillow Talks on all major podcast platforms. Oh my gosh. I love the February release. We do. We love February. It's my birthday. I love February too. When's your birthday? The 13th. Love it. And also, I just want to say, this episode is pretty heteronormative, people with penises and dyes, but you really do make an effort to be pretty inclusive with your business, I've noticed. Yeah, absolutely. On the book as well. The inclusivity is really important to us. Obviously, Xander and I are a male-female couple, so we try to call that out, but we think everybody is deserving of hot sex and deep love, so we make a really big effort to make everything inclusive. Good. Well, we loved having you. Thank you for being here with us. We really appreciate it. And Ashley's just going to take us out. Hope you guys enjoyed this episode re-release. You can find us at girlsgoteat.com, girlsgoteatpodcast on Instagram and TikTok. I am ashess on Instagram. Raina is raina.greenberg, rainagreenberg.com for her tour tickets. And you can watch full video again on Spotify and YouTube. Subscribe, share this episode with a friend, and we will see you Thursday. Have a good week, guys. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.