How to Stop Doubting Yourself & Get Anything You Want in Life

Hey, it's friend Mel and welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast. Congratulations because you have just hit play on the exact thing you need to hear right now. I am not kidding. If you are tired of thinking about what you want, if you're tired of talking about it, if you're tired of watching other people do the things you want to do in life, get ready because this conversation today dedicated to you. Today you and I are not talking, you're doing because talk is cheap and it's time to stop making excuses and start doing the work that you need to do to create what you want in your life. And don't even waste your time or mind with the excuses because I hurt them all and so has the person that you're about to meet. I know you're too old, you're too young, I don't live in the right place. Oh, I'm too late. Oh, I'm not surrounded by the right people. But everybody else is already doing the thing that I want to do. There's no room for me. Aren't you sick of these excuses? Of course you are. And by the time you're done listening today, you're going to be done making them and you're going to also know that you deserve the success that you want. Today's episode is an invitation to dream and not just dream, but dream in color. Really go for it. To stop saying, what if I fail and start saying, what if I succeed? I mean, imagine that. And after today, you will succeed because what you're going to learn comes from real world experience. In our Boston studios is someone who has built a billion dollar career in one of the toughest, most cutthroat industries on the planet. I'm talking about Will Packer. Will is an award winning filmmaker and Hollywood producer with 10 number one box office hits. His films have grossed over a billion dollars and you are going to know his films. And I tell you what he has produced, but here's what you don't know. Will didn't come for money. He didn't have connections, but what he's learned over the years is how to cultivate an unstoppable mindset. Now I have devoured his New York Times bestselling book. It is packed with takeaways and the craziest stories that you're going to love that prove the validity of everything that he is about to teach you today. This episode is a masterclass in building unshakable belief in yourself and your dreams, especially when no one else believes in you. And even when you're not sure you believe in you, so buckle up because Will believes you can create a blockbuster life. And today he's going to walk you step by step through the lessons he's learned as he's built his. Hey, it's your friend Mel and welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast. I am so fired up for our conversation today. I'm excited that you're here. It is always an honor to spend time and to be together. And if you're a new listener to the podcast, I wanted to personally welcome you to the Mel Robbins podcast family. Thank you for being here. And because you made time to listen to this particular episode today, here's what I know about you. I know you're the kind of person who not only values your time, but that you're ready for something more. You see a bigger possibility for yourself and you're going to be thanking yourself when you're done listening to the conversation today. And if you're here right now because someone shared this episode with you, it means that they see something in you. They know you're capable of more. And maybe all that's been missing is the right person with the right advice and the right background stepping in and taking the time to reignite that fire within you. And that's exactly what's going to happen today. I am so excited to introduce you to Will Packer. Will is a record-breaking Hollywood filmmaker and producer. His movies, they've grossed more than a billion dollars at the box office. He has had ten number one releases, including Straight Out of Compton, Girls Trip, Think Like A Man, Stop the Yard, Night School, and Ride Along. He also is the instant New York Times bestselling author of Who Better Than You, The Art of Healthy Erragance and Dreaming Big. Now Will's book has already been a New York Times bestseller for ten weeks. Oprah named it one of the best self-help books of 2025. I'm calling it one of the best mindset books you'll read. The team and I devoured his book, Cover to Covered. Here's what I love about it. Will not only takes you behind the scenes and tells you all these incredible stories and unpacks the lessons learned from his incredible career as a filmmaker and producer. In fact, you're going to learn that Kevin Hart has worked on more films with Will than any other producer. As he dives into the lessons and the stories behind his career, you're going to hear names like Beyoncé, Paul Walker, Tiffany Haddish, Idris Elba, Steve Harvey, just to name a few. And the reason why I wanted to have Will on the podcast is because of the path that Will took in order to get where he is today. See Will didn't grow up in Hollywood. He didn't have money or connections. Heck, he wasn't even in New York or LA. He's been underestimated his entire life by everyone, but one person, himself. I kid you not. When you start listening to him, you're going to think, did he just come into the world believing in himself? No, it's something he cultivated along the way. And he is here to teach you how to do the same thing. That's why I wanted him to spend time with you. And he's not just going to tell stories, although some of them are pretty amazing and wild. He's actually here to teach you some really important things like how to believe in your worth before the world is clapping for you, how to pivot after rejection and keep going, how to keep showing up during those periods when no one is watching and how to stop talking and finally start doing. Will is going to tell you over and over and over that every single room that you walk into is better because you're in it. And by the time you're done listening, you'll actually believe it. So without further ado, please help me welcome the extraordinary Will Packer to the Malrabans podcast. Will Packer in the house. I'm so excited you're here. Thank you. Thank you for making me. I'm excited to be here. This is awesome. This is so very cool. Just sitting here being able to vibe with you. Your team is amazing. And just I'm looking forward to conversation. What we can share with you. Well, and I also can't wait to hear what happens in the person's life who's listening and to the people who they share this with because, well, I got to tell you, I devoured your book. I cannot wait to unpack the stories and the lessons. I'd like to start by having you speak directly to the person who's listening and tell them how their life might be different. If they take everything that you're about to share with us that you have learned oftentimes the hard way, if they really take it to heart and they apply it to their life, what could change? I'm so glad you asked that because it's why I wrote the book. I have so many people coming and saying, will you mentor me, right? Will you do a master class? Will you come and talk to my students? And I try to do it as much as possible. I can't talk to everybody. So I said, you know what? What's the mentorship I wish I had? What are the secrets that I now know that I can't go and sit with every single person? But I can go out and I can put it out in a book that I can share with as many people as possible. It's one of the reasons I wrote it to pour back into the community of people that have supported me. I wanted people to feel like they could be seen and heard in a very different way. Not just listen to, but like present. I wanted them to walk into a room and not feel like they had to justify why they were in that room. I wanted them to figure out how better to prioritize themselves in a world where it's all about balance. Everything's crazy. You're trying to balance everything. We could all use some help prioritizing the main things and sometimes you are the main thing. And then asking that question, who better than me? Because the reality is that it helps to unlock you beyond your paycheck or your circumstance or the things around you that are constraining you. When you say who better than me to work past this, to get past this, who better than me to accomplish something that feels like it's beyond my current situation? That's a question. You got to constantly ask yourself over and over every day and then learn how to answer that the right way. Okay. Let's just start right there. Who better than me as I was listening to you say that who better than me? I thought, what a genius thing to ask yourself because that question by design, who better than me actually presumes the answer, which is you are the person that is in the best position to do whatever is necessary to solve this problem, seize this opportunity, make this change. Yes. And the question is, self is a challenge. It is a challenge to yourself because you're not asking someone else, tell me, do I deserve it? Tell me am I important enough? Tell me, have I impressed you? No, no, no, no, no. You're asking the most important person to give that answer. You're asking yourself, who's better than me? You're challenging yourself to name somebody else that deserves it more than you. And then once you realize that you deserve success, the most successful people I've been around, it's not that they're just so amazing. It's not that they have some talent that you or I or the person watching us don't have. What they have is this mentality that they deserve success. That's the key. And that is coming because a lot of times, and I've been there, you think I haven't been successful to this point. I don't know if it's coming. It didn't come today. It didn't come yesterday. It might not come tomorrow. The most successful people feel like it's coming. I don't know when, but it's coming. You can't let go of that. You got to believe it's coming. Success is coming. I 1000% agree with you. And one of the other reasons why I like this question, the title of the book, of course, is who better than you, which as I see that, I'm like, "Huh, who better than you?" And he's talking to me. And then you start to ask yourself, "Well, who better than me?" You also recognize that oftentimes you're sitting around waiting for somebody to pick you, waiting for somebody to make the opportunity, waiting for somebody else to see what you hope people recognize, but you got to see it in yourself first. In fact, you write about this, Will, I'm reading from your New York Times vessel, "Who better than you?" And I love what you wrote in the introduction. Too often, we're waiting for someone else to hand us the keys that open the doors to our goals. And we want that person to not just give us the keys, but to also show us how to use them. You will already be closer to obtaining your personal level of greatness when you understand that you are the key. You are the secret sauce. You are the person you've been waiting on to give you the leg up that will make all the difference. Who better than you? By realizing that you already have access to that power, you are closer to unlocking it, closer to producing a block, buster, life, and barking on an extraordinary career path, or maybe, maybe just having the audacity. To put on your own blowout of fair, celebrating who else? You, you, I love this. And just remember one thing, this much I know to be true, Oprah and Cummins. That's a nod to a story. You're going to tell us. Yes, it is. But for the person who's listening, who's like, yes, Will, yes. But they hear, produce a block, buster, life. Yeah. Yeah. You are an acclaimed producer. What actually is a producer? You know what I mean? I think like a director versus producer. Like what do you do? Because it is a direct connection to producing your life. Yes. Yes. And it's interesting because producing is actually the transferable skill that most people, whether you're in Hollywood or not, can actually use. Right. So what I tell people is that when you watch the Academy Awards, you've got all these different categories. Right. You got the best actor. You got best sound. You got best director. At the very end of the night, the final award goes to best picture. And the producer wins that award because they were responsible for putting all those other people in the positions that they were in. So the producer is a big project manager. They're responsible for getting the money and hiring the director and hiring the sound person, hiring the actors. That's what a producer does. That's why I say you can produce a blockbuster life. And producing is putting all the things in place that create the ultimate thing, which is this life we all want to live. For somebody that's listening, it's like it's too late for me. You know, it's just too late. I screwed off. I missed the window. Yeah. What would you say to that person? I hear that so often. I was talking to somebody the other day, an incredible woman who is trying to figure out how to get her business off the ground. And she was like, well, I'm not in my 20s. I ain't in my 30s. I got I'm not going to tell you my age, but I'm at a big age. And I said, listen, in Hollywood, we have a saying that how they feel at the end is how they felt about the movie. Okay. What that means is that and you've been there, right? You ever seen a movie and it's kind of slow. And it's like, okay, I'm going to stick through it, but it's taken a long time to get there. And what is all this exposition and all this plot? But then at the end, something amazing happens and you go, oh, now I see why all that other stuff happened. And you call and tell all your friends like, this movie is great. You got to see this. It's good. It's got a hook. It's got a thing. I don't want to tell you. You got to go see it, right? Because the third act in movies are broken down by acts. The first act is what gets everybody's attention. That's why you come. It's starring so and so. It's about this. It's a rom. Comment. A horror. It's a comedy, right? That's the first act. The second act is when you get invested in the characters, right? That's when you get to learn the story, but the third act, that's when you bring it home. That's when you really determine whether or not you love that movie or not. Everybody in Hollywood knows that the way you leave them feeling. So many of us are in our second, third and even beyond acts. But we're judging ourselves on what we did in act one. That doesn't even matter, right? The third act, that's how you leave people feeling. That's what the value that people are going to attribute to you, right? You can't judge Mel Robbins on the first act of her life. I know that. You're very open and honest about that. Same with Will Packer. So whether you're in the first, second or even third act, it's not over. You got to remember it's the way you end it. It is the way you leave people feeling about what your most recent accomplishments are. So it's never too late. Well, what I also love about this is if you don't like how it feels, we know you're not in the third act yet. There you go. That's right. Right? Right. Right. Not at the end. You're not at the end. You still got more acts to go. You still got an opportunity to change and create a blockbuster life. Never too late to pivot. The power of the pivot, my big believer in embracing that power, your movie's not over. Your story is not over being told. I absolutely love this. I love it because it allows you to think about where you are as if you're in a scene. Yes. But this is not how it ends. If you're going to produce your life, you get to decide how it ends. That's right. You know, in your book, you have this tool that you call a healthy arrogance, but I don't want to be considered arrogant. So what do you mean by that? Healthy arrogance is the feeling that you belong in any room that you're in no matter who else is in that room. Okay. Not to be confused with toxic arrogance, which says when I walk into a room, I'm better than everybody. Right? I'm a winner. You're a loser. I'm good. You're bad. That's not what we're talking about. Yep. What it is is the belief that no matter who's in that room, you belong there because you have something that you're bringing. You have a confidence because that's really what it is. Healthy arrogance is an outside confidence in the uniqueness of you. The most successful people are confident, not loud. You don't have to walk into a room and announce it, but you got to know it. You got to know, I'm doing something and bringing something to this room that nobody else in here has. Nobody else in here can do the way that I do it. And so when you walk in with that level of confidence, now you also realize that this room, not only do you deserve to be there, but the room is better because you're in it. And then you start thinking about how can I help to bring up the other people in this room to prove my worth and make the room better because of the thing that I do. I love something you just said because it's a framing that you can hold on to because I do think that if I really unpack this healthy arrogance, right? Because I was really thinking, okay, so for somebody who's like super insecure and doesn't have a lot of confidence. Yeah, a lot of people struggle with imposter syndrome. You walk into a room. You think you have nothing to offer. Yes. I love this framing. The room is better because I'm in it. Yes. That is nothing to do with intelligence or skill. It has to do with just your presence as a human being and knowing that that in and of itself is a value. Yes. Is it fair to say because I was thinking about this concept of healthy arrogance. If somebody struggles with self doubt and this inability to really see something positive about themselves, right? Is the arrogance actually what it takes to be bigger than that self doubt? Healthy arrogance is internal, not external guy. It is not about walking in and everybody going, look at that male robins. Boy, does she think she's the shit? I hope they don't say that. Not what it's about. What it's about is male robins walking into that room and feeling like, I've got an importance. I've got something. I got self doubt because everybody has it. I got that little doubt devil on my shoulder telling me what I'm not. What I can't be. What I don't have. Healthy arrogance is the other. The angel. Tell me how that angel talks. That angel's not very loud. No, that angel talks. We got to make it louder. That angel's going, go, male, go, male, go with, go, like go, you got this, you can do it. Mel, I literally tell myself this, you talk about affirmations. I'm the king of self affirmations. Let's hear it. I look in the mirror every morning. Yep. And I do a Will Packer pet rally. I have my own little pet rally telling myself, you got this, you got this, you have the skills, you have what it takes. You're prepared for the day. You're prepared for whatever's going to come that you don't even know, you got it Will, you're prepared for it. I do that for two reasons. One is because it's the last time I'm on a here today, right? Because we just don't walk around with a bunch of people, you know, unless you, you got a marching band following around, telling you how great you are. The second reason I do it is because my voice is the most important voice. Because I hear it from the most important person I need to hear it from. That is one of the ways that you can build that confidence muscle, even if you're not that person, because none of us are born thinking, oh, I'm great. I have what it takes to be successful. I deserve success. That's not something we're born with. You have to build it. Wait, so you did not, because being around you will be a lot of people. There's this just contagious Kind effort, vesson possibility like I believe everything you're saying. I'm like this dude Must have literally entered the world With this wiring because it is so woven into your DNA Is this how you've always been or did you okay? Well take me back to the beginning? I always had a dream of being like Really successful and I didn't know what that looked like. I didn't know how to define it But there was nothing about me or my life or my upbringing that said to me that like that was in the cards for me it just wasn't and for me it was like the Possibility of success Outweigh the fear of failure and that's where I'm trying to pull people to and get them to see that like the fear failure is real I get it. I understand it. I know depression and anxiety is something that all of us at different levels have to deal with For me I have this outsize desire for success the what if I'm successful is what I listen to and what drives me and it's louder than The what if I fail? I love that you were able to teach yourself to say What if this works yeah, what if I am successful? Yeah, what if I just keep going a little bit longer and it actually freaking happens? Yes, yeah, how would you recommend to the person listening? Yeah, that you cultivate this it's a muscle Okay, it's a muscle like any other muscle that you have to build right one of my secrets is that I will fabricate momentum Okay, fabricate momentum. Yes, tell me here's a lot of you will yes Too many times we're so harder on ourselves in thinking what if I fail what if I fail because we feel like that male will I haven't done anything Right I want to go out and climb the mountain. That's my goal. I want to climb the mountain I can't I haven't climbed the mountain yet. Well first of all that goal is too lofty, right? The first thing to do is not climb the mountain. That's not step one step one is by mountain climbing shoes That's it step two go drive by the mountain look at it You know take a picture think about it go home. You know what you've done. You've done two things you've completed two steps You got to tell yourself that right? I did one. I did too slow progress is still progress I'll never forget the first movie I ever made after I graduated from college. I Said a goal for myself for how much money we were trying to raise we're gonna raise $750,000 That was a goal. I couldn't raise it for the life of me. I didn't know anybody rich I didn't have any money that was the budget of the film and I could not raise it So what I did was instead of a monetary goal. I said a date goal. I said okay Whatever I'm able to raise in the next three months right by the end of June when that comes that's the budget of the film Mel rovis by the end of June I had raised 75,000 whopping American dollars Okay, a long way away and not enough money especially back then to make a movie okay, but guess what what I shot a tiny A tiny little $75,000 movie that did two things the first thing it did was It gave me something to show people that I could do I was saying I was a filmmaker, but now I could actually show them I'm a filmmaker the second thing and the most important thing was that it showed me I could do it It showed me because I was like you know what I Didn't make it the way I wanted to make it. I didn't have the big budget. I didn't have the big star But I made something I did something too many times We're setting a goal and we're saying if I don't accomplish that or I don't know how I'm gonna accomplish that Fabricate some momentum get it going right get started do something you can accomplish and then another thing and then another thing Before you know it you've got a little momentum It's another way to trick our brains into saying you know what I'm not in a cycle of failure I'm in a cycle of positivity all you did was buy some mountain climbing shoes or drive out at mountain three times But you're on your way you're closer than you were sitting at home going I'll never be able to climb a mountain you're a little bit closer. That's the key whatever your mountain is for me It was literally going out and making a tiny little movie so that I could prove to myself. I can make something I love that you're proving to yourself. Noted anybody see it. Yeah a couple people couple people it came out It did and you know what I actually had success with that film We actually went out because we hustled it the other thing I believe is that you got to be willing to do what others aren't right? Oh One to have what others won't you got to be willing to do what others don't say that again That was really good. Yes, and this is my mantra of my family, right? It's my wife and I have got four kids so it's six of us with a six pack The six pack mantra is if you want to have what others won't you got to be willing to do what others don't and So with that movie we drove our little tiny movie city to city to city to city We drove and stayed in little motel six super eight motel Well whoever would have us and we would pass out flyers We pass out flyers at nightclub. We pass out flyers and churches We were in the South so a lot of time it was the same people at the nightclub that we're at the church the next morning, right? It didn't matter. We were hustling Nobody else was doing that at that time So that's why we had success they didn't have if you're doing everybody else is doing you're gonna have the same sphere of success that they have So you got to be willing to step outside your comfort zone and step outside the comfort zone of other people in that story I'm sure there were a million lessons doing it that way and relationships and everything else that you don't think about I still use it to the state. That's why I sit where I sit because of what I went out and drove my little tiny movie You know city to city to city and that's how I ended up getting on Hollywood's radar Well, you're amazing. Thank you for sharing that. You know, I want to hit the pause button real quick so we can give our amazing sponsors a chance to share a few words and While you're listening to the sponsors take a minute and share this with a friend Will's on fire and he's just getting started and absolutely every one of us needs to Develop this unshakable belief in ourselves and our dreams and so don't go anywhere Will Packer and I are gonna be waiting for you after this short break. Stay with us Welcome back at your buddy Mel Robbins today you and I are getting to spend time with the remarkable filmmaker and producer Will Packer he there's so many incredible stories in your New York Times best seller who better than you and one of the first ones that I loved And it touches on this idea of healthy arrogance is the story about your student film chocolate city. Yes, I love this story Yeah, for so many reasons very first film I ever made I was still a student I was in college at Florida and a university and we made this tiny little movie literally We just borrowed money we used you know film that was sitting in a warehouse and nobody else was using I mean we had nothing to make this little movie right it starred us it started the kids on that campus We were so audacious and this is where the who better than you and the healthy arrogance comes in that after we finished this little tiny Nothing of a movie we're in Tallahassee, Florida. We said well we made a movie okay We got to have a premiere. That's what you have when you have a movie you have a big premiere We couldn't make it to Hollywood. We didn't have any money for that. So we did a premiere right on our campus right use the resources available to you Yeah, right on our campus at our student auditorium and We invited all the students right But you had to dress up you had to wear black tie male robins. These are broke college students The audacity was a little mean not at I go back and think about it because they all went out and did it They went and rented tuxes and gowns because we said to get in you got to be wear formal wear What it did was it told them okay, you know what they're taking this very seriously So I guess we should too kind of crazy, but we'll do it right the other thing we did we invited all of Hollywood We invited all the major Hollywood studios you name a studio Sony Warner Brothers Paramount we invited the head to the studio My mom I'll never forget my mother goes well, baby. You should invite Oprah Winfrey I said mom. I don't know Oprah Winfrey. She said you don't know all those other people you invited them You might this chairman of Sony pictures. You don't know them you invited them. You should invite Oprah I said okay, mom. I'll invite Oprah. I said but Oprah can only get a plus one okay? Because I don't have that many seats so I invited Oprah a gay but plus once you could have brought Stamman or Gail Didn't matter to me right? I'll never forget male I am standing in the student auditorium of my first little film chocolate city and I'm introducing it to a room full of Students who are all dressed to the nines who took it serious because I said they needed to because I said it was that important And the entire front row is empty Nobody's in the front row because I saved it for all those fancy Hollywood folks Mind you nobody told me they were coming nobody responded at all But Mel what if a fleet of private jets showed up at the Tallahassee Regional Airport the night of my premiere I had to be prepared. I'm standing there the front row is completely empty But there is not another empty seat in the house. It is standing room only For everybody else in that auditorium and that's when I realized you know what I'm not making my movies for the front row I'm making it for everybody else who showed up and Win it those tuxes and ballgowns and sat there some stood and loved that movie They loved that student film because they saw themselves on screen Hollywood couldn't be bothered to show show up. I realized I was stepping over the people that were actually in my corner ready to validate me, looking for the validation of people who had brands and names and money and titles. I was looking for that external validation. How many times do we do that? How many times do we ignore the people that are around us that are in our corner that would support us because we're trying to get validation from people that we don't even know because we think their validation matters because we think they're so important and we ignore the folks that we actually should be pouring into. I love this story for so many reasons. One of the things I want to hover on and make sure that as you're listening is how important it is to understand, especially in life, if you're going to put yourself out there or you're going to build a business or you're going to use social media for a different purpose than just sharing photos of your vacation and of your kids. We're often focused on getting a person in some C-suite or some influence or some somebody to see it. Yes. And you're missing the fact that it's just everyday people who are looking for your art. Yes. Who you need to be talking to. Yes. And if you can focus on the people that are meant to find you and expressing yourself. Yes. And then welcoming in the people that come instead of wishing other people were there, you win. Yes. That's number one, but there's a second thing that I want to make sure that we unpack. I believe that by reserving that row and actually extending the invitation and having in your words will a healthy level of arrogance, which means how dare you actually believe in yourself, right? How dare you hold the space that maybe just maybe somebody will show up. I believe that in acting as if you actually laid the foundation for them to be sitting there years later. Yes. Yes. Can you talk a little bit about that please? Yes. Because so many times we say the front row people aren't coming. They're not going to support me. I'm not going to get the deal. I'm not going to nobody's going to watch my video. The right people aren't going to watch it. I'm not going to create the content. You make yourself small because you think that the possibility of success feels so far away. But if you don't even open the door to that now, as I sit here, Oprah Winfrey is a friend. She didn't come to my chocolate city premiere, but I've got multiple shows on her network now. The reason that I sit where I sit is because I believed in myself enough to say whether she comes or not, she should come because what I'm doing is important enough. And I acted like it was important enough because if I just said, I got a little movie coming. I got a little premiere. Come wear your jeans and t-shirts and check it out and let me know what you think. People would have come, right? But they wouldn't have felt it was important. Too many times we're making ourselves small and not forcing others to realize how important our dreams and our endeavors are, but it starts with you. They're not going to believe it. If you don't, why should I ever believe that what you're doing is important if you don't believe it. And I don't mean just believe it. I mean believe it so clearly and whole heartedly that it's contagious. That's the other thing. The healthy arrogance is internal, but it also manifests itself in a way that you walk into a room differently and people want to be around successful people. People want to be around people that believe in themselves and you can be one of those people that other people then gravitate to. Changing your mentality will make people gravitate you that you're not even thinking about. I just said this huge epiphany listening to you. You ready? And I think I can translate this into a question that you can ask yourself kind of like one of these gut checks. You've already given us who better than me. I'm going to give you another one. If this were really important to me, how would I show up differently than I am right now? See, I think in life oftentimes we feel that something's important and it could be something like your real estate agent. You have an open house this weekend. What does it look like if this open house is the most important open house you've ever done? You know, you are a person who really wants to get into like YouTube and creating a YouTube channel. Okay, well, what is the video you're going to post look like and sound like and feel like if it's important to you? And I think a lot of times what we do is we put in, I can just say this for myself, we don't go all in because we're kind of afraid it's not going to work. And secretly you know if you kind of half-ass it a little and you don't go all in, you can kind of blame that but it was excuse. I didn't really try. It's okay that it didn't work, you know, go all out. But what I love about what you're saying, this core principle around healthy arrogance is cultivating belief in self. And so you can do that and you can call yourself out by saying, all right, if this actually were really important to me, how would I show up differently? Yes. To communicate that to other people. And you talked about passing out the flyers and going around at that film, your first film for $75,000 was clearly important to you. And so you demonstrated that it was important by doing things that most people won't do. And that's a simple tool that I think can help you really check yourself. Am I operating with a level of healthy arrogance here? Am I acting as if this is actually important to me? And am I demonstrating that to people? Am I demanding that of people? I love that will. It's such a nuanced thing but it is so important. The way you said it is so good because you have to go all out and show up for yourself. That's really the key there. You deserve to give 110% to whatever the thing is your dream deserves it. The endeavor deserves it. You deserve it. How does somebody listening start to apply this to their life? Like, you know, you're working your job, you're paying your bills, you're taking care of kids, you still have big dreams, maybe you want to write a book, maybe you want to figure out how to make a million dollars and be financially independent, maybe you want to go back to school. You've already talked about so many different tools that you use. And this is clearly the way you move through life. How can somebody begin where they are to start to live this way? Yeah. The first thing is the balance of life because life is so loud. So the first thing you have to do is you have to start to parse. You have to start to weed out some of the noise that's stopping you because there's so many people that can kind of see the dream but it's fuzzy because the job is in the way, the families in the way, the kids, money problems, or stuff in the way. So I know the dream is down there but I got to deal with this stuff around me first. Yes. And I understand that because as a movie producer, you're always balancing multiple projects and everything's always going wrong. This is the life of a movie producer. I never get a call with people calling and saying, "Hey, just wanted you to know everything's going great on set. We're on time. We're on, but all the actors showed up. Everything's great. I just want to call and let you know. I've been producing movies for 30 years. I've never gotten that call. Not once. Every call is some five alarm fire that's burning. That is a disaster. So I'm dealing with all these disasters. That's how people feel in life. My life is just a disaster. Disaster disaster. Disaster disaster. So here's the thing. I believe you got to make the main thing the main thing. You got to keep the main thing the main thing. Okay. And what that means is that when I am getting all these calls about things going wrong with various projects, I focus on the thing that needs my attention the most. I can't put out three fires at once. I just can't. So I have to focus on the one that's burning the brightest or that is the most timely. And while I'm putting out that fire, I already know they're going to be calling going, "You're not over here. We need you. We need you. I can't do that. I got to focus on this." Then once I do that, then I can switch and deal with something else. You have to compartmentalize that. You have to do that in your life. But here's the key male. Tell me. Sometimes the main thing is you. Sometimes the fire that's burning the brightest is you. What does that mean? If you're not okay, you can't help other people. And so one of the ways that you can kind of start to weed out all the noise is to keep the main thing at that moment, the thing that you're focused on the most. So we have to protect our energy circle. Then you can start to say, "You know what? At a certain point, my dream, my long-term endeavor, that's the main thing that I got to pour into today." And you got to know the kids, the house, the job. They're going to be going, "What about me? What about me? What about me?" Because today, my main thing is my dream. It's what I'm focused on. My endeavor, my next level, my third act. That's what I'm focused on today. You know, one of the things that was a huge takeaway for me in your book, "Who Better Than You?" is this notion of energy. It's a big thing that you talk about. Keeping your energy locked on your vision. How do you keep your energy locked on your vision and what you want? Because you seem to be a master at it. Yeah, you know, it's interesting. You talk about negative energy. We all have this. I'm going to prove them wrong, right? I am going to show them. I'm going to show the doubters and the haters and the people that didn't help me. I'm going to show them, right? That's superficial. That only lasts so long, right? Accomplishing anything worth accomplishing is going to be really hard. It's going to be hard. Life is hard. It means that you have to have a drive that's sustainable beyond just, I'm going to show you, right? Yes, because I'm going to show you, and I lasted. What will last though is this is something that speaks to me that I want and I deserve and I'm not going to stop until I get it and I'm going to get it. That's sustainable. That's not me versus them. That is you pushing and cheering your own self on towards that goal. So that's how I do it. It's not about, let me prove all my haters wrong. Let me show them. That's not it. It is, we'll pack our deserves to have this thing that I'm going after and I'm not going to stop until I get it, but I also am confident it's going to happen. I never let myself say it ain't going to happen. The aides kind of remarkable. You also talk about this skill of enrolling people in your dream. So how do you enroll other people in your dream, not by bragging, but by showing your success and why it helps everyone. What does that even mean? You enroll other people into your dream by listening to them and their dreams. The most successful people and the most successful leaders get everybody in the room to roll in the same direction. People's favorite thing to talk about is themselves. Everybody. Right. Their favorite topic of conversation is yourself. And too many times we can't listen to what other people are telling us about themselves who were too busy talking about our own favorite topic of conversation, our own selves. Right. I have found so much success by listening to people and listening to what's really important to them. And when I find out what's important to them, oftentimes there's a commonality. There's a synergy in what they're trying to do and what my ultimate goal is. And you got to know that your likelihood of success is far more likely if you have other people also working towards the same goal. Don't take a me versus them mentality. Take a we and then us. That's how you're going to be successful is getting other people to buy into the common definition of success. Do you have a story of like when you had to flip from me versus how I enroll this and make this us? Every movie that I have made I've had to walk into a studio and I'm pitching them my idea for a movie that I want to make. Okay. One example is a movie I made called Stomp the Yard. Stomp the Yard was a dance movie. It was about fraternities and sororities that step. It was a stepping movie to play in college and it was a big dance battle. Nobody in Hollywood wanted to make this movie. The way I got the movie made was by listening to the studios and hearing what they needed. And every studio told me no. And I went back again because that's just how dog I was. Most of them told me no twice. They walked I walked in the room and they said, "Want you just in here?" We said no but like nothing's changed. What do you like? No, no again. What do you want? It's right it down. All it takes is one yes though. And there was one studio that had a dance movie that had worked for them the year prior. So I came in and I pitched my original college stepping movie as a sequel to their movie. Brilliant. That's what I pitched and they loved it. It got me in the door and they said, "Oh, we've been thinking about a way to do a sequel." How would you do it? I said, "Well, we'll take one of your stars from that movie and then he'll go and dance in a whole other environment and then he'll teach his style of dance these other folks you have a big dance battle." And then and that's what became stomped the art. It wasn't a sequel. It became its own movie but I had to get in the door by listening to them and what they wanted. Everybody's focused on what's in it for me. So you use that to figure out how to line that up with what you're trying to do. That's what I did. I had to be malleable, right? I couldn't be rigid and say this is the only way that this particular thing can work that I'm trying to do. You got to be malleable. But if you get other people saying, "You know what? I'm trying to do this." And you go, "Well, you know what? I'm trying to do that and if we do it together, we can all win." That's literally what I did. I told it was Sony Pictures. I said, "Sony, we can win together because you're looking for another dance movie and I'm looking to make a movie that's set in a world of dance, right? Even though it's on a college campus. Let's combine these." And they said, "Yeah, let's do it." Start off as a sequel. It ended up being stomped the art. That was my first number one movie in Hollywood. You know, this leads right into one of the other things that you teach in your book that rejection is just data. And what I love about this story is that you now could look at every single no as the ability to listen and learn about what the person that you're selling to or you're trying to convince of something, what actually matters to them, because you're going to hear it in the know. And then you just pivoted. You write a lot about pivoting. I want to read you from your book. This is page 31, "New York Times best seller, who better than you?" One of the worst sounds in the world is someone telling you, "No." And I don't mean let you down easy. It's not you, it's me. Maybe next time, soft declines. I'm talking in your face, no holds bar, repudiation. Why me, Lord, you might say to the heavens? Or pivot? Because rejection forces you to do one of two things. Crawl into a ball of self-loathing and despair while crying, "Why me, Lord, to the heavens?" Or pivot? Do something else that just might ultimately be the right path forward. Getting turned down stings and can make it hard to see anything but the pain of the rejection. But if you can put aside your sensitivities and your ego and focus on regrouping, a "no" could be one of the best things that ever happened to you. Yes. Yes. It seems like this has happened over and over and over again. How has all these nose fueled your success? Like, no. I know Beyonce said no to you a lot. Beyonce said no to me five times. So I call that the fortuitous "no," right? A "no" that actually has value. Can I ask a question? Yeah. Doesn't every "no" have value? That's it. That is literally what I want to teach people. That is what I'm trying to teach people, Mel. Every "no" has value. But in order to find it, you got to get past the fact that you were told no. The fact that you were rejected. The fact that somebody said, "You're not enough. You're not good enough. Your project, your idea, your contract, whatever it is. We're not doing it. We're not making it. We're not investing. We're not buying your product. You got to get past that." How? By focusing on the "why," by realizing that there's value in it if you realize why you got the "no." I had a movie and it was called "obsessed." And my good friend, Intersevil, was a star. I already had my male lead. I needed my female lead. We heard Beyoncé was looking for a thriller. We sent it to Beyoncé. Beyoncé read it. But she said, "Thank you for sending it. I'm not doing the movie. It's not the movie for me." That hurt. I mean, one of the biggest stars in the world. I mean, with "detail," you know, it's like, "Well, I must not be good at this." She told me no, but here is the key. She was gracious enough to tell me why. She could just say, "No," right? And get out of my face. I'm not telling you what. But I said, "What's holding you back? Tell me why? What's the thing that's making this movie not for you?" And she told me. And she told me what the elements were in the script and some of the elements of the story and some of the other production things that were holding her back. And I said, "Okay, thank you. Got it." And then I went and I adjusted my movie. And I came back to Beyoncé. And she said, "No, again." And she was very sweet. And she said, "Listen, I appreciate you making changes to your project. But I'm not promising you if you make all the changes that I'm ever going to do it. So don't do it for me. Do it for you." And I told her, I said, "I am doing it for you." I said, "Because you're giving me actually really valuable feedback because from your perspective as a big star who's considering this, like I may end up with somebody else, but hearing why you won't do it is helping me to adjust my project and it's actually making it better." And it did make it better. And I took it back to her and she was nice enough to consider the project five times. By the sixth time, I had removed all the elements that stopped her from saying, "No." And I wish I could say I just wore a down. You don't wear Beyoncé down. Beyoncé is going to outwork anybody that you or I know or have ever met. Nobody works hard in her. So she would have said, "No, a thousand times," right? Or just just said, stop coming back. But, She considered it, and on that sixth time, she said yes. And what I realized was that I had a better project because I had gone through the process. I got Beyonce on the sixth time, I could have got Beyonce on the first time, but it wouldn't have been the same movie. Whatever your Beyonce is, your Beyonce may never say yes. However, if your project, your in depth, if your thing is better by going through that process, then it was for tourists, then it was good, you're better for it. Now, I had to do a cost benefit analysis. I had to make sure the changes I was making were making it better and were worth it for what I was going after. Beyonce was worth it. We all have to do that cost benefit analysis, right? Sometimes somebody may tell you no, and you may say, okay, they're not the person for me, right? It's not worth it to make the changes that they want, but it's valuable to hear why they said they're not gonna renew my contract. Why they said they're not gonna buy my product? Why they said they're not gonna hire me? - Or date you. - Or absolutely. Or date you. Somebody says they're not gonna date you. You know what, that's valuable information. Rejection is data. Take it as data. Be a computer, right? Just be unemotional analytical for a second. Take it all in. They don't wanna date you fine. We'll never date them. But what is it about that person, that interaction, the way that you came off? What is it that we can glean from that that will make us better when we find the right person out there who we will date? - You know what I find fascinating about that story? That you actually went back five times. No, I just wanna hover on this because first of all, Beyonce was gracious in giving you the feedback, right? - Yes. - And so clearly that says a lot about you and your reputation. But I think a lot of us, I think if we were in that situation, I might start to feel cringey. At the third time. So what is it about the way you framed the request for feedback that might make the rest of us mirror mortals successful when we hit that moment where it's like, why couldn't go back again? Or I'm really getting really annoying now. Or that person, I've shown this person a house 15 times. I can't call them again because you know what I'm saying? Like we stop ourselves from seeking it. It goes back to what we talked about when we realize, when we treat something as so important, it forces other people to acknowledge that importance and to perceive it the way you're perceiving it, right? You're showing the house for the 15th time because you really, really, really believe this house is right for that customer. I really believe, Beyonce, that this project has got a lot of potential. I really believe in it. So I'm not, it's okay if you say no. I always made it clear like it's fine. I just want you to look at it one more time. I just want you to read it. I adjusted the schedule. I changed the mail-inments. I adjusted the script. I just want you to look at, would you please look at it? And she was like, you know what? This guy's determined, he's dogged, but also he really is passionate about this project, right? When the realtor is saying, I really do want you to look, I know the kitchen's not perfect, but have you looked at the laundry room? Like this is a one of one. Like the master on main, the hardwood floors, like when you are pressing upon other people how important it is, they have to at least acknowledge that. - You know what I love about this too? We get so focused on people saying yes. And what you're saying is no, no, no, no, no, no. Put your attention on what's actually important to you and really show up in a way that demonstrates that this is important. And then every time you're talking to people, whether it's at work or in your community or in your family or your friend group, trying to get people on board, you're just focused on how important this is and any piece of feedback actually can make it better. - It's good, it's good feedback. That yes is more likely because you learn from the note. - Well, I am so glad that you are here. Thank you, thank you, thank you again for making the trip. I have so many more things I want to dig into from your remarkable book, but let's take a quick pause so our sponsors can share a word. I also want to give you a chance to share this with people in your life. Everybody deserves to believe in themselves. Everybody deserves to dream and color. Will is here and is motivating us and inspiring us to do just that. And we have so much more to dig into, so don't go anywhere. We're going to be waiting for you after a short break. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) - Welcome back at your buddy Mel Robbins. I am so thrilled that you're still here. Thank you for sharing this conversation with people that you care about. Today you and I are getting to spend time with the remarkable filmmaker and producer. Will Packer, he is unpacking so many life lessons for us and Will, I love your stories. And so where I want to go next is how Kevin Hart almost ruined your career when you were producing the blockbuster hit right along. - Yes. - What happened? - Oh my God, Kevin Hart, we are each other's most frequent collaborators, okay? He hasn't worked with another producer director as much as he's worked with me. And sadly, Mel, I have not worked with another actor as much as I have worked with my short little evil friend. And I say that with all sincerity, but of course with the love that I have for the guy. We're making this movie right along. It was like the first time for Kevin Hart to show that he was a star. We were coming off an ensemble picture that we had made that had done well called Think Like A Man based on Steve Harvey's book. It was him and it was Ice Cube. Ice Cube is a consummate straight man, right? Kevin was the sole comedic driver in this movie. Everything's going great. We're there, we're shooting the movie. It's the biggest budget either of us had had in our careers. We are focused on this movie, right? One would think. Kevin comes to me, goes, hey, by the way, next Friday I gotta go do a little comedy show. So I was just wondering if I could get off a little early because I got to show Friday night. And I said, all right, I'll check the schedule. I checked the schedule and I'm going, well, wait, Kevin, we shoot on Friday, we got a late night and we shoot Saturdays. You know what's a big day because we can only get that location on Saturday. We talked about this. He goes, was that that day? Was that? I go, Kevin, you know it was that day. For a good actor, you're a bad actor. What are you doing? What are you telling me? He goes, listen, I gotta go do a show out of town. Out of town, where? It's in New York, New York, Kevin, no. You can't do show in New York. We're in the middle of shooting. He goes, okay, I'm a level with you. It's my big comedy show in Madison Square Garden. It's the first time it's a special, they're filming it. I go, what? You have a huge comedy show in the middle of our shoot and you're just now telling me? I realized he was telling me so that it would be so late that I couldn't cancel the Madison Square Garden show. And I had no choice but to adjust my schedule. Now I had to shoot Saturday. I could not change the Saturday shoot. It was just that important. So I said, okay, oh my God. He could tell I was freaking out. He goes, will, don't worry about it. I tell you what, let's wrap early Friday. If you can get me out Friday, we'll go to New York. I'll go do the show. I'll fly right back. I'll be here for Saturday. I said, wait, we, we mean we, he goes, yeah, it's important enough. I want you to be there to Big Show for me. By the way, you'll be there to make sure I get back on time. I was like, you know what? It's got a point. If I'm there, I can make sure you're going to get lost in New York, right? I can go up and see the show and come back. Mel Robbins, we fly to New York. He does the show. The show is amazing. After the show, all of a sudden, I'm like, okay, guys, time to get back. I get on the jet. Time to go. Somebody goes, well, yeah, you know, Kevin's already committed to the after party. What after party? What are we talking about? Who's talking about? I got to be on set at 6 a.m. Back in Atlanta. New York, we got to go home. Kevin goes, it's just a small thing. I got to just walk through this after party. They're making me do it. Who is they that are not Kevin Hart or Will Packard, right? I end up in a nightclub with Kevin Hart. Bottles are being popped all around us. The DJ is going, Kevin Hart just saw that massive square guard. People are going crazy. I'm going, Kevin, we got to get out of here. What are you doing? He's like, okay, let's go. Right when it's time to go, Carmelo Anthony, legendary New York Nick walks in with a bunch of tall dudes, bottles in tow. The waitresses got sparklers and everything. Carmelo walks right up to Kevin Hart. He goes, you killed it at Madison Square Guard. We're going to die tonight. That's our heart. We're going to party. I go, oh my God. Oh my God. My career's flashing for my, Carmelo, we can't die tonight. Let's die tomorrow. Let's die after I shoot the movie. Not tonight. What is happening? Literally, I end up in a nightclub with Carmelo Anthony. Kevin Hart and Kevin goes, well, we tried will. And I said, I will kill you. I will strangle you in this club. When I realize this is why I call him an evil genius, it's because he got me to go to New York with him. Because if we don't show back up in time for that shoot and it's just him, the studio's going to be really mad at Kevin Hart and he's going to be in trouble and he's going to be on the hook for that money. But if the producer is their male, if I'm there with him in New York, I allowed him to go, I'm complicit in this plan. It's all on me. So when Kevin goes, well, we tried, I realized right then. I said, you, you playing this shit. You did this. I literally, I begged Carmelo Anthony. Carmelo is freaking six foot 10. I am not. I'm jumping up in the club, begging him to let us off the hook to get out. I got to get him to the airport. I gotta, Carmelo goes, "All right, I'm gonna give you a rain check, okay?" But next time we're turning up, Kevin, we're gonna party. Get out of here. I had to get a police escort to take us from this nightclub to the private airfield at Teterboro and literally because I had to get there within a certain window or the pilot's one time out, right? There's only a certain number of time, I'm on time they can be on the clock. I'm trying to get on a plane at like three in the morning and so I'm like, "Guys, we gotta get there in 20 minutes." It's a hour drive. Police escort, I beg these cops. We're screaming through the streets of New York, get on the plane, fly back, we finish the scene and the movie opened number one. You can't make this up. Like you always seem to have the ability, which I think is a very unique ability, but it's a skill that you're teaching us to be clear about the bigger picture and to be able to produce an outcome, right? And you had another very public experience at the 2022 Oscars where you were producing the show where that shocking situation happened with Will Smith slapping Chris Rock. Can you put us at the scene of just for you, you're running this thing, it's live, you've got a live audience, you got social media, you got the televised audience, you've got a show to put on. And all of a sudden out of nowhere, something happens that you weren't expecting. Right, right. What was that like for you? Oh my gosh, it was easily the most challenging moment of my career. Easily. In the book I talk about, "Rid your Kipling" has a poem called "If." And one of the lines is, "If you can meet with triumph and disaster and treat those two imposter's just the same." And what Rudyard is saying is that, "Triumph and disaster are both imposter's. Don't buy into abject failure. Don't buy into the perfection of success." Right? None of that's real. You got to keep an even keel. So when you ask about being in these tough moments, I always realize if I panic, then I am no good to anybody and there's no way I'm going to get through the moment. I can't panic. I produce those Oscars. And the thing you got to know about the Oscars is that it is a year of work before anybody ever sees the show, right? You are working, working, working. You're trying to get all the actors and the sets and the performances. It's a big, massive show. And have you ever produced a big live show or are you only had the producing movies where you film and then cut it together and so there's more control? I had never done a live show on that scale. And weren't you also one of the first black producers who actually produced the Oscars? Absolutely. Myself, an incredible woman named Shayla Cowan. She was my producing partner. We were the first all black producer team to produce the Oscars. So there's a lot of pride in that, right? And a year leading up to this. Year leading up to it. I think I got it all under control. I know what's going to happen because the Oscars are so big, you're planning out every second of the show. I knew what was going to happen every second of the show, right? Now, are you behind, do you have like one of those big walkie talkie things NFL sets on? You're not sitting in the audience. No, I did a good job. I wish. Okay. So when you produce the Oscars, you're literally just off stage, right? And are you wearing a tux? Oh, yeah. You dress up. Okay. So you're wearing a tux and you're just off stage. With the headset, you're talking to your camera people. You know, they're doing live editing. There's a director telling people where to look, where the cameras are going. Wow. And so, and you got the full. You're in front of you, right? So that's me. I'm just off stage when Chris goes on stage and we had rehearsed the show. I mean, with it in each of its life. So I knew everything that was supposed to happen. He immediately went off script immediately, right? But it's Chris Rock. So if anybody's going to go off script and you figure like, you know what, let's see what happens. It's okay. It's Chris Rock. He's amazing at improv. So he immediately goes off script. And I'm not sure where he's going, right? He tells the joke about some other actors and he tells the joke about Jada. Those wife. And the first time I knew that something was a miss was that he told the joke and Jada didn't laugh. And the camera was right there on Jada. He got to remember I'm in the back and people are in my ear and I'm hearing, okay, we're going to cut here, cut here because we know where everybody's seating. So whatever Chris said, we were just going to cut to that person, right? Even on the fly. It's a major joke about Jada. We cut to Jada. You can see Jada's reaction on the screen. It's not good. That's when we'll go up on stage. And I thought like everybody else that it was a joke. I didn't think it was real. I was like, okay, that wasn't that funny. So these guys who clearly know each other, they have history, like they got to play this off somehow, right? I'm still thinking as a producer. I'm thinking, okay, how can we make a joke out of this? How is this going to be funny? It wasn't until he will went back to his seat and he does the famous line where he says, keep my wife's name out of your effing mouth, right? And people asked me like, well, why did you show that on TV? You know, you knew Will was mad. And I try to tell people when you're doing a live show, it's like a tennis match. You just follow the ball, right? And so Chris made the joke. We cut to Jada. We cut back to Chris. Will walks up. We're just following him. We don't know what's going to happen. When he sat back down and yelled it out, the camera had no place else to go. Every other actor in the theater that night at the Oscars was a guest, right? I couldn't go to like Charlize Theron. She looked like she had seen a ghost. Like, nobody looked normal. So I had no, I would have had to cut to a palm tree on Lossi and a Gaborlava and Los Angeles. Like, I had nowhere to go, Mel. So the camera's cut to Will. He says that that's when everybody knew it wasn't a joke. He was clearly upset. And that's the moment where I said, oh shit. And I immediately went into damage control and conflict mitigation. I immediately, as a producer, said, okay, I got to finish the show. That's where I went. Because when you're in a high pressure situation, whatever it might be, you might not be producing the Oscars with, you know, hundreds of millions of people watching. But when you go into a situation you can't control, if you're going to get through it, you got to keep your wits about you. Why did you do that? Because one of the reasons why I was really curious about this moment in your life is that you're right. I'm not going to be producing the Oscars. The person listening may never do that. But we might be at a wedding where somebody's mother-in-law gets drunk and sounds off. You might be in a big pitch at work and somebody blows it. You might be at a family dinner or on a date and somebody goes off script and you're sitting there with that just pit in the stomach. And especially if it's something you've worked so hard, right? It's your wedding and the mother-in-law gets drunk and goes off the rails. Or it's your pitch and you've worked so hard on it for months. And then somebody comes in and totally messes it up, right? If you're in that situation, you immediately have to say, what can I control? When you're in a situation and the unexpected happens, immediately ask yourself, what can I control right now in this situation? I can't control what just happened. I couldn't control what happened with Will and Chris, right? Over. It's already happened. Yeah. What can I control? And I immediately went to a place of, I need to finish the show. You know what I love about this is that it's actually applying what you've already taught us. Which is you said you have to stay focused on the vision and the biggest fire. And the biggest fire and dream and thing that you have in that moment is I got to finish the show. That's right. That is what I can control. Yes. And in the conversation about the wedding, I want to get through this day and have a great day. And that's what I'm going to focus on. And so you picked the thing you were going to focus on, which is I got to get through that show. Finish the show. Does that help you settle? Yes. In the book I write about this and I say every disaster is an a failure, right? And so it was a disaster in the moment, but it wasn't a failure. It took time later for me to say, you know what? There were a lot of great things about that show that I accomplished. It was the most diverse show in Oscar history, right? I had legendary winners. It was the first time I'd deaf actor won. The first time you had a queer Latina actress win. We had things at that show that you typically don't have because I had put my stamp on it. And none of that had anything to do with that moment. And so if you can get past the moment that feels like, oh my God, this is unmitigated disaster. Everything is gone. The world has exploded. If you can survive it, I promise you your work will not have been in vain. If in the moment, gather yourself, breathe, let go of the things you can't control, focus on what's the main thing? Okay. This is the fire burning the brightest. I got to get through. I got to finish this show. I got to make sure that I can't let this derail the show. Everybody, stay focused, guys. Okay. Who's next up? Make sure that other actor is ready to come up. Present the award. We'll go to commercial break. When we come back, make sure you're ready. Amy Schumer made a great joke about it. If you go back and watch the show, I talked to her about it. Give me something. Give me some levity on this. Amy, she was great in the moment. Like, that's what you have to do. my job. So whether it's that or it's at the family union and the drunk uncle who you told not to come, you said do not come, Uncle Jeff. Here he comes. Here he comes with a bottle of of Jim Beam and you know what he's on, right? When that happens, you got to say, what can I control? Can I remove him? I can't remove him. How can I mitigate how much damage he's going to cause? Because I got to get through the situation. That's what I was thinking. Well, I love that because it's also bigger. Like I think what happens in life when you have a situation where other people have something going on and it impacts the way that you think things are going to go. You can't control the other people. Right. And we tend to get sucked into that. Yes. And then we lose sight of the bigger picture and the impact to everybody else that's around. And so I think it's a really amazing reminder to all of us that it's very easy to get hijacked by what's happening between people. Yeah. Or with one person. Yes. And lose sight of the bigger picture of steering yourself past it, knowing that you'll figure out what just happened later. Yes. But I love about this is that it also teaches us that you need to act like the thing that you're focused on is important. Yes. Because when you take your eye off the ball, let's say you're out to dinner and you got a little drama with some friends over here, when you turn toward that drama and you join in, that now becomes important. Yes. When you are grounded enough and have a healthy level of arrogance that you know what is actually the higher priority. Yes. That's where you keep your focus. Yes. It all goes back to prioritizing you and knowing that you deserve something that is above and beyond that conflict that's happening. But who better than me to stay focused on what's important here and steer us through this thing. I love that. I love that. You know, one of the things that you write about a lot in the book and I believe in this, but I can't wait to hear you talk about, which is do the work when no one's watching. What does that mean? We live in an age where we all are looking for immediate validation and social media gives that to us. Right. People tell you a great story and it's like, well, where's the picks? Let me see. You didn't post about it, right? Picks or it didn't happen. It is the work you put in when nobody is watching. That makes everybody pay attention later. You're going to get the attention, but you got to wait. Well, you have a great story in the book about being an intern on a movie set. Could you tell that story and why it's so important to do the work when no one's watching? Absolutely. My very first movie that movie I made Chocolate City when the front row was empty. I finished the movie. I had it done, right? I'm on the set of another movie. The movie is called Ride. It was being produced by the Huddlin brothers, famed movie producers, they produced boomerang and house party and other stuff. I'm interning on the set and I walk up to Warrington Huddlin and I have my movie, right? I say Mr. Huddlin, I'm a filmmaker and I just wanted to see if I could pick your brain. You could see his eyes just glazed over. Here we go. It's what it's thinking, right? And now I know what that's like because I get a lot of people that approach me like that and I know he's thinking here's another filmmaker. I don't have time for this or I'm not in the mood in the moment until I pulled out my movie and it was a little shrink wrap VHS copy of the first movie I ever made Chocolate City and I handed it to him and as soon as he saw that movie he immediately changed and he said, oh you've already done something. He said, oh you've produced a movie and I said, yeah that's what I was trying to say when I was in college and he said stop. He said in Hollywood, everybody's talking about what they're about to do, what they're going to do, what they're planning to do. He said, you gotta be a doer, not a talker. He said, this shows me that you've actually done something. Social media applaud the talkers. It gives validation to people who are going, well just you wait, I'm working on this, you know, new chapter loading, right? New business on the way, just you wait, I'm working on it. Stop talking about it. Don't be a talker. Be a doer. Everybody's talking. Do things and show me what they're doing. Yes. And so what would you say is the most important thing for anybody as particularly early in their career or somebody that wants to have a creative job? What would you say is the single most important thing that they need to be doing right now? Yes. So I ran a marathon last year. You did? I did. I turned 50 last year and it was on my bucket list. I said, I've been talking about running marathon, I'm going to finally do it. Okay. It damn near killed me. But I finished that thing. Okay. I ran a marathon and I realized that a marathon is such an incredible metaphor for life because life is all about execution, especially if you are going into a challenging industry or creative industry. Life is all about execution. When I stood at the starting line of that marathon, Mel Robbins, I had the perfect shoes. They fit so good. I had gone, I had tried them out. I went to a custom shoe shop. I had the right socks. I had a headband. I had the right dry fit, you know, moisture wicking t-shirt on. I had all the things that I needed. I was so prepared. Right? Being prepared at the starting line is like having a great idea. Nothing matters until you run the 26.2 miles. Having a great idea is like having the perfect shoes at the beginning of a marathon. It doesn't matter until you actually go out and execute it. Till you actually go out and do it. Everybody's trying to make sure they got the right Instagram, worthy hat and shoes and tank top and sweat bands and all of that. When all that matters is, are you going to finish the race? Are you going to execute? That's the advice I give to people. Execution is the key. Go out and do it. And remember, it's okay if you don't start great, right? It's okay if the first act, it's not as great as you wanted it to be. Even the second act, I could use some improvement. What are people going to remember? How you finish, right? When I tell people I ran a marathon, they go, oh my gosh, wow. They don't say, well, what did feel like it? Mild three and a half. They don't say, hey, were you sweating a lot at mile 19? Nobody says that. They go, you ran a marathon. You're finished and I go, you damn right, I did because that's what matters. The execution. We get too caught up at everything else that doesn't matter. Focus on the execution. I love that. And remember preparation paralysis is real. What that means is oftentimes we feel like I'm not ready to do the thing because I'm not prepared. I don't have everything lined up so I can't take the step. I can't cross the starting line because I don't have every last element. You'll never have everything ever. Sometimes you got to take the leap. You get as prepared as you can and then you got to go because we talked about climbing the mountain. You can have the right shoes. You can have the water canteen. You can have the rope. But until you get on the mountain and you grab a hold of a spot and the rock slip, right? Until you feel the cold air on your face, you don't know. You'll never be prepared enough to not take some form of risk. There will always be unknown. Some people get paralyzed in the preparation stage. That's preparation paralysis. Because it feels like you're doing something. You're just getting ready to do something. Getting ready is fine, but at some point you got to do something, right? There are people that have been preparing to do the thing for 10 years. What I love about that story is this. I think oftentimes we get so paralyzed with thinking that, "Oh, it's got to be perfect. It's got to be a hit. It's got to be the best thing I've ever done." We're focused on, like, let's just take chocolate city. It's a student film, right? But I think we often get to that moment and then chocolate city doesn't become the blockbuster that you want it to become because it's not going to. It's just your student film. But it is in service of something that is to come later. It is in service of that moment when you hand over the tape. And perhaps as you're listening, you're working very hard at something and you're not getting the result or you're not getting the accolade or you're not getting the yeses that you deserve. I think having this mindset that maybe this is your chocolate city. Maybe this thing you're working on now is in service of something greater that's yet to Come, absolutely, leading to another level of success. Somebody listening watching right now feels like they're not successful and they couldn't be more wrong. They couldn't be more wrong because you have to define success for yourself. And too often we allow everybody else to define success. What is success? Well, it has to make X amount of dollars. Well, it has to get this number of views. No, you define success. You define success for yourself. Sometimes the fact that you got it done, dammit, that's the success. And there's nothing wrong with that. Define it for you. I love this. You as a producer put together all the pieces for these huge blockbuster movies. And one of the things that you have to choose is the cast. Yes. And you say choose your cast in a movie and in life wisely. Wisely. So what that means is that you have to constantly be looking at and evaluating your circle. I believe that people are either augmenting your energy, making it better, or they're draining it. I think it's binary. I think there is no in between. The folks around you, you have to pay attention to them because the ones closest to you are those that can help get you to the next level or make sure that you'll be stuck in the same run. And part of the reason I wrote this book is because when you understand that you deserve success, you understand that you deserve to be around people that also are contributing to your success and also have a successful mindset. I'd love to hear how has community and having a community of supportive cast members around you played a role in the way that you move through life played a role in the way that you do business and your success overall. Yeah. It means everything. I am only as successful as I am because of the people around me because of that community of what you speak. It's my family. It's my incredible wife. She is my rock. My support system is everything. And so to the extent you can control it, you got to know it's important. You know, one other thing about your career that I find incredibly inspiring because Boston is not exactly a media town, right? Not exactly the home of podcasting. I love the impact that you and many of your friends have had on the city of Atlanta and really creating an epicenter for creators, for filmmakers, for producers, directors, actors, basically an entire industry outside of Hollywood based in Atlanta. Can you talk a little bit about that because I think a lot of people like, and you may as you're listening to Will feel this way, well, I don't live in LA. I don't live in New York. I don't live in London. I can't possibly do that thing. So talk a little bit about just breaking apart that excuse. Yeah. Start where you are. Period full stop. Start where you are. Atlanta right now today is the busiest on location production hub in the United States. Wow. I didn't know that. Absolutely true. It was not like that when I started off when I moved to Atlanta some 30 years ago now. It was not. Start where you are. You don't have to move to a place that has traditionally been a place where whatever it is you're trying to do works. You don't have to. Especially now when you can get the word out digitally in ways that you couldn't before. Start where you are. Don't let the fact that you're not in a location that is conducive to the traditional version of what you're doing. Don't let that be an excuse. In fact, I think it's the biggest opportunity. Absolutely. It's to not be where everybody else is. I couldn't agree more. I love it. Start where you are. Be a do or not a talker. Let's get going. Yeah. Well, I'd love to have you speak directly to the person that's been with us. Soak enough everything that you're sharing with us. Yeah. That's an important thing, you think, for somebody to do. Adjust your mindset so that you realize there is not a person on this planet that is more deserving of success than you are. Not one person. I don't care how big they are, how famous they are, how rich they are. There's not a person on the planet who deserves success more than you. Wow. And you got to mean it. You got to believe it. You got to believe you're the most important person on the planet to achieve the success. And I don't mean sort of successful, a little bit. I mean, outsized success, right? Life is hard and life is short. Let's dream. Let's dream in color. Let's go for it. What if you get it? What if you get it? Stop saying what if I fail and start saying what if I succeed? How cool would that be? You deserve to succeed. Will Packer, what's your parting words? I think my parting words would be, don't let your current situation define you. Don't walk into a room and question whether or not you deserve to be there. The room's better because you're in it. When you adjust your mentality to one that says there's no one better than me, you will be seen and hurt, not just listen to. And when you ask that question who's better than you, you will realize that you can then supersede your paycheck, your circumstances and your environment because you deserve to. I want to hang out with you all the time. You have supersized, outdone, any expect. I knew you were going to be amazing. I am so blown away by your conviction, by the take away, by the teaching, the life lessons and the passion and confidence that you have in our ability to create a blockbuster life. I believe you. I do believe you. You make it easy. Mel, you are one of one. I am telling you now. I get it. I see why the people that are gravitating to you don't you ever leave. Stick with Mel Ravitz. She sees you. She sees you. She's in vows for it. It's real. I'm in the room. I know it. I can tell it. So I'm going to pay that right back to you because it's the truth. I receive that. Thank you. That is just the highest, highest highest compliment you could pay me. And I think you see that because you actually see that person too. So thank you for showing up. Oh my gosh. And I also want to thank you. Thank you for making the time, finding the time to be here with me, to be inspired by and learn from will. Thank you for sharing this with people that you care about. And in case no one else tells you, I wanted to be sure to tell you that I love you and I believe in you and your ability to create a better life. There is no doubt that if you take what will taught you today and you apply it, you will create a blockbuster life because you are deserving of it. Alrighty. I will see you in the very next episode. I will be waiting to welcome you in the moment you hit play. I'll see you there. Here we go. Oh my gosh. I'm so excited. Bell Rhymes is reading my book, people. Okay. I just need a moment to just, that's cool to me. Go ahead girl. Read it. Is Trace in here? Talk to her little corner like a mouse over there. Tracey, mighty mouse. You guys, you're over here making a grilled cheese set. You not here me dropping these jails. What is happening? What's up ladies? Oh, why you have one last sip of that sucker? I love that. I love that. Trace, I have to go to the bathroom. Okay. I'm like super hydrated. You're killing it. I can talk to you for a while. I'm loving it. I'm having fun. It was called "Twai." And "Twai" as in "Monaja Twai." Yeah, okay. Oh, we went right there. Well, come on. It was, it's not even the P word. Okay, man. Alright, it was, it was tasteful of rhodica. I'm not sure how tasteful it was, but let's just call it rhodica, okay? Oh my god. Blu-la. Okay, go, go, go. [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] Oh, and one more thing. And no, this is not a blooper. This is the legal language. You know what the lawyer's right and what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist and this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. I'll see you in the next episode. [Music] [Music]