How to Run a Specialty Studio in 2026, with Searchlight President

Welcome everyone. My name is Matt Bellany. I am the host of the town and I'm a a writer for Puck. I write a newsletter there which you should all be reading. Lucas also writes a newsletter for Bloomberg that you should also be reading. We have a very special guest today in Matthew Greenfield. He is one of the most important figures in independent film and specialty film over the past two decades. I have a whole intro for you that I'm going to ignore, but so if I miss some of your key movies, please tell me. He's been, you're my, it was actually pretty easy because you've been in search life for 20 years. Before that, you've been, you were. My second job. Yeah. Well, you were a curator at Sundance, right? I worked with Michelle Satter and writing and directing labs at Sundance for that. I was a different person. But it's great that you've been at one company for so long because there have been many different iterations of search light over the years and I'm thinking back to when I first started covering the business and you guys ran the table with Slumdog Millionaire, a movie that Warner Brothers had and decided was not good or commercial and you guys took it and not only made hundreds of millions of dollars, but one best picture all the way through, you know, the 2010s with movies like Juno and Shape of Water and three billboards. I saw the new one this past couple days, Wild Horse Nines, Mark McDonald's extremely good. I recommend everyone see it. The question I want to start with for you is what is search light now? You're six years into the Disney relationship. I think when that deal happened, a lot of people were questioning like what, you know, Rupert was very good in nurturing you guys and letting you do what you wanted to do at Fox and then you come under this big Disney banner where they don't, they weren't making movies like you guys make and you brought something new to the company and now six years in, what is search light? What is the search light movie? What is the brand? I think, first of all, I think that was one that was an exciting thing. Disney is kind of an incredible fit for us. We've always been a smaller part of a bigger company and Disney didn't have what we do, so they wanted to add that. And so this sort of Bob Eiger and Alan Bergman and Josh Jamaro and Dana Walden, they're eager for having, there's seven studios, each one does something different and we do something different than the others and each one is kind of unique and so for us that's a great place to be. There's a real definition internally and externally for what we're doing versus the other companies and they really want the thing we do. And I think in a large part, you know, there's kind of two ways to think about what we do now versus in the past. In some sense, there's a real continuum from the beginning, which is the desire to work with great storytellers, great film artists making interesting, innovative, personal, authentic, entertaining movies across all genres that we can reach all around the world. I think what that means in terms of individual movies is ever changing. And so what that meant five years ago is different from what it means today. It's different when it meant five months ago. It's different what will be tomorrow. And that's the constant effort which is to constantly search for what's, how do we tell stories that feel new, that feel fresh, that feel interesting, that feel worthy of a theatrical experience, that feel worthy of making the effort that people have to make to go see a movie in the theater and will entertain and satisfy them. And hopefully like the movies you mentioned will last long into the future as part of cinema history. Then what is that now? Well, I think there's no one thing. I think it's trying to find things that haven't been seen before. So I think part of what you're trying to do is to find movies that people don't know they want, that they don't know that they want, but that once they see, they recognize themselves in it. They aren't detained by it. It tells them a new side, a humanity, a new side of entertainment, whether that's a comedy or a drama or genre movie. In any movie, it's trying to expand the boundaries of cinema, expand the boundaries of storytelling, tell something new. And I think familiarity is the challenge that we have to battle against. But there's no definition. And I think once you start to define it, that's actually the problem. Like if we say we want this, that's boring to an audience. Nobody wants the thing that they already know is there or that they can see at home, right? Everybody, all of you guys, everybody can have to decide every time they go to a movie. Should I pay X dollars, make a real effort, get out of the house, travel, pay to see a movie in the theater, which is a great experience if you're seeing something you love, or should I stay at home and watch everything that has ever been made in the history of human culture for free. Well, but you guys do sequels. You just did super troopers three. You're doing family stone sequel announced this morning. Like you do that. Yeah, we do it because I don't think it's about sequel or not sequel. I don't think it's about remake or not remake. I think it's about is that movie telling a story that feels original, that feels different, that adds to those characters or adds to that world and and tells that nobody complained about Godfather too as a sequel. Like it's not it's not the definition of a of a sequel. Super troopers three and Godfather too easily confused. You maybe do it. You maybe do it. There are there are fans. Look, I'm a super troopers fan and I'm a guy with you. I'm a fan of both. We try to make noise to everybody and there's some people who might disagree with you. Am I guess it's some part of the super troopers audience has not seen Godfather too. You mentioned the importance of originality as opposed to familiarity, which is interesting because I feel like so much of the Disney movie strategy for the last 15, 20 years has been about familiarity, consistency. Yes, there are original ideas, but that they want to be something that they can kind of almost know going into it is going to work. Whereas by nature, what you guys do, almost everything is a bit of a risk. I can't really speak to that in some sense, but what I'll say is that when you see something like Toy Story 5, or Inside Out 2, those feel like original movies that stand on their own against any other movie. And I think many, many sequels feel that way. I think what we do is by nature, creative risk. That's our desire. Our desire is to actively lean into creative risk to make things that there's some of them don't work out. That's the nature of creative risk, but for us, that's the interest. So we're really actively looking to make movies that have some kind of creative risk in them, whether that's in the casting or the storytelling or the genre or the kind of movie or whatever, but that is an active part of it in a real goal of ours. And I think is a place that we can inhabit that's different from some of our, you know, the risks are different. And every company is taking risks, but the way they look at those risks and what those risks are are different. And we keep our budgets low in order to take those risks. How do you evaluate theatricality at Searchlight? Because I would, you know, a lot of the movies that you greenlight would not pass the theatricality test at any other studio yet you're going through the Disney apparatus there. And there are movies that I think do that would pass that test, like the Bob Dylan movie. Like any studio would have made that movie with those elements, with that music, and not any, but most. But then you can't do that every time. You can't have those, those IP or the music biopics or things like that. So what is the theatricality test? I think it's, you know, we're trying to figure out what's going to make people feel urgency to go to the movies, right? That make that effort and really go to see a movie and feel, and then feel excited about having the group experience, about watching it with a group, whether that's because it's a comedy or there's humor or emotion or whatever that it's a group, communal experience, and people come out of that, that experiencing telling their friends you should go see this and go see that quickly. And I think that can be a really wide range. That can be a movie star, it can be an unknown, it can be an actor that people love doing something different. It can be the boldness of the storytelling. It's really different in every movie and that's part of the goal. There is no formula for it. It's trying to find, is this a movie in all of its complexity and all of its part led by a filmmaker who's going to tell the story in a way that feels worthy of your time and your effort to go see it and to enjoy it and to see it with other people. And how much is the awards process part of that now? Because that used to be the searchlight model, is that you'd have your one or two films that would come out in the fall at various times, you would platform them, and then all of a sudden we'd wake up in March and three billboards has made a hundred million dollars and has many Oscar nominations. You still are very good at getting the Oscar nominations, but the awards box office is not what it was. And the theatricality of an awards movie is not what it was. Yeah, I think that I think that part has changed and evolved, but I think the the purpose for it always is the same, which is the goal is to get to make movies that a lot of people see everywhere around the world and that land in the culture that are meaningful to people that last the test of time. That you can name like out of other two, seven years later people still think about it. They know that that movie, that's the ultimate goal. So we're trying to make movies that reach a big audience theatrically, region ongoing and long-term audience streaming and home forever and and in revivals and whatever. Awards are a piece of that and awards are a great avenue. It's wonderful. We're super happy when when the the artists that we work with get recognized. We believe they deserve it and it's wonderful to get that recognition and to get that validation, but the real goal of all of it is it helps bring the movies to a wider audience. It helps cement them in the in the popular culture. It helps people understand. You can't count on that anymore. Well it's not I think there are two years you have to separate two different things, which is you can't necessarily count on it making a box office different. That has to do a lot with the release calendar and when the Oscars are and when the movies are released and a whole bunch of factors like that, but they have a real impact in how people see the movies and in and in how those people how those movies live in in kind of popular imagination. And so I would say that even for movies both ours and our competitors they don't. necessarily reach a big box office if they're in the awards conversation it tends to help the audience feel more strongly about them to last longer to be a part of the conversation. Do you see that data on Hulu? Do they show you the data and it backs that up that movies that achieve awards nominations do better on Hulu than your non awards movies? Yeah and you can feel it. Yes we see the data and we feel it and we all know it and I know movies of ours that did not reach a wide audience theatrically but we're in the awards conversation and there's an outside reactant. I mean the last Martin McDonald movie bans, she's of insurance, did not do great at the box, it did okay but not three billboards money. Right. And to me the difference is that's that's post-COVID and free COVID. I think that's right. And but did the Hulu numbers still have that movie has done has been wonderful and and lives on and got eight Oscar nominations and and has done very well. I feel like three billboards was a slightly more commercial movie regardless of COVID. You were so as well horse nine by the way. You were talking about you know you want to make movies that five eight years five years eight years from now people remember what is the movie that you've worked on at Searchlight that comes up the most in conversations whether it's with filmmakers or friends. That's a good question. You know it's so our our movies are so varied so I think it just depends on the person but I would say I would say in a general sense and and and they're definitely on movies that I'm not going to mention that are beloved but I would say that that shape of water no madland three billboards uh Joe Joe Rabbit those are definitely like big ones for people not not Napoleon Dynamite Napoleon Dynamite but I I was not here when Napoleon does okay by the way on those on those movies for the nine beloved movie five hundred years of summer there there there's a lot of them to live on and and and a lot of them live on for lots of different groups so some of them live on for everybody others have just real passionate advocates who really love them. I was talking to a lawyer for a filmmaker the other day and and he was talking about this phenomenon of a lot of the movies that went to specialty divisions in the 90s and 2000s the rights are reverting back to the filmmakers which people don't realize is a thing in the indie space when you sell a movie at a film festival often there will be a 20-year 25-year reversion back to the filmmakers so they get the rights are you finding that some of these movies like Fulmonte or Napoleon Dynamite are not even yours anymore? it depends it depends on the movie and very specific on the deals that were made when they were made or acquired and which ones are acquisitions versus which ones are productions but but but sure there are movies that have that happens too and that is and what do you do? do you go back to the filmmaker and make a deal to distribute it or do you just let it go? it depends on the movie it depends on what they want and how it fits into our world or sometimes those things are aligned and sometimes they're not yeah how because you you announced a new family stones morning I guess two questions off that one how do you decide when there is one of those movies from 20 years ago that where that you where you that was you know I hit but not you know the the biggest thing ever where there is an audience you feel like you need to revisit are you looking at streaming data and saying this is something we should do where does that come about because the people involved and it just like have a great idea and come down the ladder we're not we're very rarely if ever really never think this is for sure we never look at the streaming data and say this is the movie we should make it doesn't really work that way for us and and and mostly it's coming from filmmakers so in that case Tom bazooka who wrote and directed the original and Michael and who Bruce original came to us and had an idea for what to do 20 years later and have you not coming to library saying like hmm what can we do with this because your colleague your peers at other studios that's what they do often I understand and and we we in conversations with filmmakers we sometimes point them towards a library to say if there's things in there that are worth having a conversation about that's how furious came to be from searchlight tv in 20th was a conversation with Mb Ross some that led her to the library yeah that's how Ron bask it's an EP credit yes it's based on a it was inspired by a 1987 I think Fox film called Black Widow Ron Bass wrote and so we we do often like in the conversations with filmmakers when they're searching for ideas and they're looking for things we point them towards books we point them towards movies we point them towards our libraries as possible avenues but it's not that wherever looking for oh this is a movie we must remake this is a thing we must do because it really is driven by them and so Tom came to us and had an idea for how to do it 20 years later when it started it was about kind of bringing that group together again since that time thank you who who was the star of the first one and passed away in the first movie passed away in real life unfortunately lost her it became then a real labor of love for everybody including the cast to kind of honor that and and and felt like there was a there's a story to be told about where all these people are 20 years later so you're really hoping for it to be the searchlight version of depot wears product too it's the not practical magic of which I don't know the box office is not what they thought it would be but yeah so this summer obviously we had some pretty big specialty hits with backrooms and obsession are you now combing YouTube every morning trying to find your next horror hit I mean I think YouTube is an incredible resource and and and but I think the thing is is that we're always looking for new storytellers okay and so this is a phenomenon yeah and so you you have to be at least for sure instructing people like why are we not looking for new voices here or here or a hundred percent and and and so we are absolutely looking there we're also continued to look at short stories and short films YouTube is a font of you know it's incredible place I think one of the things that's super exciting about that is that it used to be that we would find collectively an industry a new talent from short films from first features from things that that from short stories but all those had to go through gatekeepers or one form or another a festival had to select them or a magazine had to print it or something and YouTube obviously people can go direct and find their own audience and build their own audience and we can find things that wouldn't have come through the standard things and I think that's super exciting and so it's for sure an exciting place to find new talent and we look there and we also look in all other places our our our desire is to be as open as possible to the world and really look for talent wherever we can find it and find stories that are going to resonate and and connect with an audience do you have any projects from digital talent in development I mean we we definitely have it depends on how you define it like there's so many people that have made shorts that and but made them online put them online so we certainly have projects and development from that they're they're I think that it's hard to define quite the way you're talking about it because it's like you know when Juno was Juno was developed because the producer Mason Novak read a blog that that Diablo Cody was writing so in some sense that's that's that's the pre-YouTube version of the same thing it's an ongoing process an ongoing dialogue trying to find talent wherever they live doing the things that they love and and YouTube is a great thing because you can also feel the audience reaction to it and so you can understand what the audience is and how they're reacting and what they're reacting to and that's a great benefit. Did you think that the given what you're saying that the sort of the media and industry reaction to those two movies was overdone? No those are spectacular movies that are spectacular successful and spectacular audience. There's no we all want more of that. So I think there's no no. But if I was here last year did you bid on it? It's it's I'm not going to get into that. But I think the thing is is that it's that we all want those kinds of successes and we I root them on the guys that focus our grade the people at age 24 are wonderful they deserve that success and they're usually jealous of you. We're all jealous of you listen I think we're all operating it's an ecosystem I want them all to survive we want more distributors to survive we want everybody to thrive we want movie goers to go when people go and those kinds of numbers to see specialty movies especially but really anything when they're going to see Spider-Man or or Odyssey it just it's a rising tide we want people to remember that they love being in theaters with people that's the most important thing and when that happens it's a great thing and everybody should be chasing that. As you talked to Josh tomorrow the new CEO of Disney about the mission statement the next five seven years of searchlight I mean our mission statement is the kind of thing I'm talking about which is we want to make great movies with great filmmakers that connect an audience worldwide but I guess we'll do it. It's not it's hard to find what you're getting at is is the mission any different under Josh than it was under Bob. No I don't. It seemed like the mission under Bob was have some hits but get us invited to the Oscars every year. It's not it's not to find that narrowly okay we would we would like to have success in all dimensions so we want to have hits we want to have people movies people see we would love them people when they go to the Oscars we'd love to win Oscars we love to win BAFTAs we want to be in Toronto we want to be in tell you right in venison can like we want all those things those are great ways to help reach an audience that's the ultimate goal and and we want to make things that we're proud of we're trying to make things that we're proud of the filmmakers are proud of that the audience is excited about I would love to make things that Alan Bergman and Dana Walden and Josh tomorrow are proud of that's the real goal. Is there a searchlight film or television project in that you have in development that you think can be a Disney theme park ride including super troopers which would be amazing no no we don't but we don't just have the flywheel but if Josh obviously comes from that side of the business and would love that if that happened and and if it happened it happens like we'd be thrilled for that too but it's not the eight and it's not our place in the business to it's one of the you know we operate on a smaller budget that has a whole lot of challenges forever. everybody to make movies on a smaller budget, the benefit for that is we don't have to aim for that, that we can have plenty of success commercially, culturally in all the ways that matter without reaching a right. If we ever made a movie that had that, it would be terrific, and everybody would be thrilled. And there's no reason to say it can never happen. Who knows what, what, you know, we put out fantastic Mr. Fox, like we make movies for everybody, the anything is possible. - Your former co-president, David Greenbaum, now runs the live-action studio at Disney, and he seems to want to do more original films, he wants the 20th century studio to do more originals. How do you guys manage that, and what's the search light movie, and what's a big Disney, and what's the 20th movie when you're talking about it? 'Cause obviously you guys did the Bob Dylan movie, 20th did the Bruce Springsteen movie, and yours was a much bigger hit than the 20th version. It almost seems like those could have flop, or could have flop, could have switched. So how, what's the search light movie, Vs of each 20th or Disney? - I think for us, I think it's sometimes, I know it's sometimes unclear for people on the outside. For us, it tends to be really clear. And for Dave and I, in particular, I think it's very clear. We work together for a really long time. We have a really good sense of each other and also for our businesses. And I think in broad strokes, they're making movies at a budget that requires them to aim for everybody. That's the goal for those who are budgetary. And so they're making them at a scale that should, when they make a plan of the apes, or when they make a predator, or when they make the worst product, they're really aiming at the whole, the goal is the whole world, and they've seen. - They're trying to do more mid-budget type movies too. - But they still are trying to reach a very, very wide audience. And for us, we're making them at a budget that doesn't require us to reach a wide audience, it requires us to reach a specific audience, but in success, we can reach everybody also. So in success, we can have a movie that's a hit of the same size, but our budgets don't require it, so we don't have that pressure to reach everybody. And we had already made here in post on the Bob Dylan movie, when they looked into the Springsteen movie. For us, doing a second rock by a pick at the same time, one year after another, that was not. We're trying to do things that are slightly different from what we're doing. They were super excited to buy it. That was great. And David and I talk about these movies kind of constantly, and we've never, for us, it's usually like a five-minute conversation of like, this is for you or this is for us. How would they compare your taste to his? Like, what are the differences in the overlaps? I would say there's a lot of overlap, but it's not the same. So we both, it's one of the reasons why I think it worked really well as partners and why he's great in doing that, is we both, I think, have the same sense of quality and the same taste in a general sense. But we each have different interests, we just have different filmmakers who are a bit more passionate or a bit less passionate or stories that speak to us. And so it's more in the specifics that are different. His job requires what they're looking for is very different. What we're looking for. So what he makes and what I make are different, part of that is taste, part of our businesses. When I first started covering the business, when you go to festivals, the big two distributors that filmmakers wanted their movies to go to were Searchlight and probably Weinstein. I mean, Weinstein had its own issues and stuff, but then, yeah, we don't have to talk about that. But there was a pecking order. And Searchlight was always at the top. Then we went through this phase during the late 2010s, when the streamers basically went to these festivals and gobbled up everything and there was a real switch and you guys felt, I think, a lot of pressure. It feels now that for some of these big titles, the filmmakers want theatrical and they want the lighter touch or closer touch that a specialty division can bring them. They don't want to be sucked up by the algorithm unless the money is unbelievable or they have financial pressures on the movie or something like that. And we've seen it over and over at these festivals to where it seems like Searchlight, Focus and A24 are now the dominant distributors. The more a man is gonna rush the stage. But he's doing smaller, a lot of smaller movies. Yeah, nothing is sleeping on that. Nothing is yet, but my point is like, for a big commercial movie at a film festival, something that you think can break out. Who are your top competitors? And how do you position yourself against an A24 or Focus? I think, there's always been a lot of competition in our area. So there was Paramount Classics and there's Paramount Vantage and there was, like, focus has always been there. There have been many and many companies have come and gone but there's been intense competition always in our area for the kinds of films that we do. So that is not new, who it is changes. And certainly, A24, Neon, Focus. But we, for us, everybody is competition. We're always fighting with somebody for a movie. And that is good. I think that's a better thing. I think competition is important. I think having a lot of distributors is important. I think at the end of the day, there tends to be both a financial and a kind of personal perspective when if you fit between a movie and a filmmaker and a studio and you need that. And I think that's really crucial. And I think when it's only left to the financial, there's a bit of a risk just to whether it's the right fit or not. Because the releasing of movies is a very involved and complicated and actually personal process in terms of the vision of how to release it, how to connect the audience, how to work together with the filmmakers, and you need the right fit for the right movie. And there is no one size fits all. But A24 obviously is going for more commercial, bigger movies now. Do you try to use that against them in negotiations? Where they got 20 movies this year. We've got five. No, you can't use anybody's reputation against them. All we can do is try to express why we think we're the right fit. We can express our passion for it, our vision for it. But we think it's the right way to reach the audience, how we would do it, and who they'd be working with, and try to win the day on their own merits. You can't do that by knocking somebody else. Would you say that you are all sort of competing on the level playing field when it comes to what you can offer? Or is there one of them that will always come over the top in a way that you can? No, I think it's different movie to movie. But I think each company is also really different. So not only obviously there's personality and there's taste, but also some of those companies are US only distributors, some are worldwide, we're worldwide distributor. We try to do that on all movies. Focus often does it, don't have to, H24 does US plus some territories. It's different for each company. And so I think that is a factor. That is a differentiation, which is the way we release movies is different slightly than the way other people release movies. That us as a part of a bigger company, we have, we have, kind of, certainly has its own marketing team, its own distribution team, its own core team. But we interface with the broad our company, we do it with Disney now. We used to do it with Fox. We have, we release our cells in every country that Disney releases. In most of the world, we release directly. We don't sell it off, so we don't work with foreign companies. For the most part, we pretty much try to reach the audience directly ourselves. That's different from most other companies. And so we can offer a comprehensive worldwide plan, strategy, creative plan, marketing plan, dating strategy. It's aimed at connecting with the audience as opposed to other companies. And for some movies, that's a strength to have only US. So it just depends on movie. But for us, we believe that being involved in the world, being able to have one plan and one group of people that are working kind of hand-in-hand for the entire world is better than trying to coordinate up a bunch of different people with different points of view and different things that they're working on. By the way, poor things would be the best Disney ride. Sorry, how do you get there? I love it. And made a lot of money. I've just tomorrow seen poor things. I assume so, but I've not had that conversation with them. Because we've talked a lot about directors and people you affiliate. Who is your white whale director? Someone you haven't worked with that you must want to. I mean, for me, I'm very bad with this. But I also feel like it's constantly changing. And there are people like you, there's a name. Come on. I mean, I would love to work with Jane Campian. I'd love to work with Alfonso Corone. I'd love to continue working with Martin Magdana and Georgas Lanzamos. But I also love working with new filmmakers. And we released "Mod of Fastfuls" movie. And we're working with Alas Burches, the first-time filmmaker. For me, I have a passion for filmmakers and artists. And I love the ones who are established. And who have really had incredible long careers. We're working with Alexander Payne for the third time right now. And I also love working with new filmmakers and discovering people and being a part of that journey, too. So for me, there isn't a must-have. There's like, I want to make great movies with great filmmakers. And I want that in all the varieties of that. And imagine you have relationships with certain filmmakers where you almost expect them to bring their next project to you. I think it's dangerous to expect anything with anybody. But I certainly hope there are people that I love. I just certainly don't agree with that. Yeah, and I think there are artists and they're going to find the right home for each movie. And so there are definitely people that I have a relationship with that I hope to work with again. And I want to work with again. And we're making this our third movie with Martin McDonough. We're making our third movie with Alexander Payne. We've made three movies with George Slamson most. There's lots and lots of filmmakers that we've done that. I want to keep working with all of them. And if some of them make movies or other competitors for whatever reason, sometimes it's because that company has a script that appeals to them. Sometimes it's a nature of the market. Whatever it is, I'm happy to work with them again. And Alexander Payne made two great movies with us. sideways and in the descendants and then he made a couple moves other people and now he's backward. with us, and we're thrilled for that. - So we were talking about this a little bit backstage, but like Jesse Eisenberg, you made his last movie, huge success for him, successful for you. Why does his next movie not go to you? - It's just a nature, sometimes it's a nature of the market. - Agents is the answer. - But that's okay, that his first movie was A24, his second was Isas, his third is with A24, maybe his fourth will be the last. - Okay, that's a good answer. Yeah, the market for these films, I mean, The theatrical versus streaming. You've had a couple movies go direct to streaming, and how is the decision made on that? Is it simply, this movie is not commercial? Is it simply, we don't have the bandwidth to release this movie in the way that it should? - No, we've never had a movie that we made with a plan for The theatrical that we've released streaming. - Even during COVID? - No, we've, during COVID, I mean, no Mad Land was released at a time when theaters weren't open. - Right. - So that was a different time. We put it in some theaters, weirdly, no Mad Land, it was in IMAX briefly when that was the only theaters open. (laughing) But that was the time when theaters were open, so that's a whole special case. But in general, we've never made a movie that was for streaming, I mean, that was for The theatrical that was streaming. We did have a period of time where we were making movies directly and intentionally for streaming. - That was the Bob Chapeque, everything goes to streaming. - Yes, and so we did that, and we made a bunch of movies that I love, but I think, and we had success with "Fresh," with "Daisy Edgar Jones" and "Special Time," and "Flame and Hot," and "Androns," movie with "Bohen Yang," and "Jolken Booster," called "Fire Island." But we, but I think we really felt like we were committed to theaters, and we believed that having a movie in theaters, having a theatrical marketing campaign, bringing people together to see movies in theaters as a first step is by far the most powerful, it helps bring the audience in, it helps make the audience excited, and then there's always a life, and there has always been, for decades, people watching the movies at home, and we love that too. But that is a more satisfying experience for us, and we think for the filmmakers, if we can start in theaters, and then come to streaming out there. - And you get the sense that Dana Walden shares that view. She's a TV person, she's now over film. And so that is settled. You think that, you know, they, you hear all the time about how theatrical is settled as the place where if you wanna watch a movie, you go there. - I can't speak for the industry, and I can't speak for every division. I can say that for us, the theatrical is the way to go. And we believe that that doesn't preclude the, that streaming is an important home for a lot of people watch movies at home. When I was a kid, a lot of people watch movies on cable, and they watch them on VHS, it's always been an important part of movie going, is to watch movies at home, and I think that remains. But I think for us, for Searchlight, it's really key to have movies in theaters first, and then, to bring love into the theater. - How have you found building up a TV division as someone who has been such a movie person for your whole career? - I mean, it's been interesting. It's like a learning experience. And it's a, but, you know, we approach it with the same, with the same way we approach a film, which is we're trying to work with great storytelling, great creators. We keep our film and TV divisions very close together, so they work very closely together. And there's a lot of overlap between the talent we work with in one place or another. And it really started from conversations that we had with filmmakers that we were making movies with, we knew we're really making their living in TV at the time. We're doing just great work in TV, and we thought we have a relationship with this person. They want to work with us. We want to work with them. Why not keep that going in television as well? It's obviously a different medium. They're different storytellers, a different way of telling stories. That's a part that I've learned, but, or, and I'm learning. But there's great storytelling in both mediums. And great artists and many going back and forth between the two, which is exciting. - Do you feel sleep pressure? Like, when you look at your year, do you go to a festival saying, man, we really need something for the fourth quarter. We really need, 'cause I'm looking at your-- - Well, last year was for you as a relatively light year, right? You'd had a really big 2024 couple of huge movies, and then last year, you weren't really competing at the Oscars in the same way. Did you feel like you, you clearly decided you didn't need to go out and get something, but was there a point in time where you wanted to or-- - No, we were really hard. I mean, we balanced our slate with both productions and acquisitions. We were really hard to be in a place where we make every movie we want to make, and we buy every movie that we both want to buy and are able to. But we try not to be in a position where we have to buy anything, where we have to make anything. For us, that is, it tends to be worse than better. The problems it causes are worse than better. - It causes the P&L, the swing. - Yeah, and that's a challenge. And that's why we keep our company relatively small, and we keep ourselves nimble, and we try to keep a pipeline really active, and we try to keep the development pipeline super active because we can control that more, and that position market is an opportunistic market. You don't know what's gonna be available, you don't know what rights are gonna be available, you don't know what's gonna be good or not good, and you don't know what the competition is gonna be like. So we can't control that. So we also tried really actively to make as many as we can, because they're in our control. But we keep ourselves very flexible so that the number of movies can vary depending on what we have, and we try really hard to only buy or make our release movies that we love and believe in, and we try to avoid things, you know, being in a position where we have to do something. - I was looking at this slate this year. So five movies this year. You have one direct to Hulu, which is called in the blink. No, in the blink of an eye, one sequel. - Two sequels. - No, two sequels. Ready or not, two, super troopers three. Wild Horse Nine, which is your awards movie, The Hemath, which is another awards movie from Tony Gilroy. Is that a normal searchlight year? Five releases, two awards movies, two sequels, one direct to Hulu? - Yeah, I mean, it's a, well, the blink of an eye is a wonderful movie. That was the kind of tail end of the direct to screaming movies. So that was something we've been working on for a long time, and that we're no longer doing those actively. We can do it if we found the right thing, but for us what that right thing is is unclear. So we're not really doing that actively. I would say two sequels is, you know, there's probably only been four or five sequels in the history of searchlight. So that is an unusual thing for both of them to land in that moment. But it's just the nature of the creative process that come when they come, and that's the process. We've been talking about both of them, actually for quite a long time. So for us, that number is, you know, we love having five movies, six movies. Sometimes we have three, sometimes we have eight. We try to keep very flexible so that we can do the widest range of that. And we keep flexible so that we can have staff and the team ready to be able to take on movies. We don't take on movies if we feel like in any given, you know, two or three months period, we have too much. But over the course of the year, we can always find room for movies and we try not to let any opportunities pass so that we feel like we're right for us. The horror question, because for all of the prestige and, you know, awards-oriented movies that get released by the specialty divisions, what keeps the lights on, typically, are the genre movies and horror. And you've done less of that than focus or neon or. - 824. - 824. - What's your thinking on horror? What is the search light horror movie? And are you gonna be moving more into that arena as we've seen these big, low-budget movies break out? - I mean, we love it. We don't do many and we've not traditionally done many, but we're interested in them. And for us, it's about finding ones that feel like any other movie we make. For us, it's the same judgment, which is, does it feel exciting, does it feel original, does it feel different to the filmmakers that we believe have something to say and connect with an audience. And when we've done that in the past with Ready or Not, or Hills of Ice Years ago, or 28 days later, with a movie called Monitor, that will come out next year, they're all that in one form or another. So we're eager to do it, just as we're eager to do other genres. And we know that the audience is there for those movies, but we have to find ones that feel right fast. - Attour, Homer. - Attour, horror. - I mean, you know, it, yes, but that makes it sound like it has to be fancy. Like I think, you know, Jared Hess is an attour, I mean, Napoleon Dynamite. Like you can, the definition of attour is very wide-ranging. - You also made the Minecraft movie. - And to great success. - I said to be to let you jump in on that. - To great success, he's a wonderful filmmaker. And so I think it's, I think, yes, a tour in that they're filmmakers with a vision, but that doesn't mean that it has to be kind of quote unquote, fancy or it has to be, I flew into or anything like that. It can be the widest range of what that means. - You know, you used the word theatricality. I think of it more as kind of an event. Your movie has to be an event if you're gonna get people to leave. - It has to create urgency, people have to feel urgency to go. What are the, who are the, the, the directors that you work with that you feel like just their name being attached to it creates that urgency. And it is something people need to go to see. Like at the, at the top end of the industry, we know it's Nolan and Kugler. And there's a few of those people. Do you feel like there's a deep bench of aptors where you know you can hit a certain threshold of ticket sales if they're involved? - I, I think there's a deep bench of aptors that you know you're gonna make something great. Or that you used to have. - It's an audience. - It's an audience. - That's about the audience is there. - Well, I would say the thing is is that the audience is there if you make a great movie and if you don't make a great movie, the audience will not be there. And that's true for almost every filmmaker. There's some filmmakers who, because of their track record, you have a much more confidence that regardless of the script, they're likely to make a great movie. And even if it's a very untraditional movie, we're a very unusual movie. And so I think there, there are filmmakers whose track record can give you more confidence to that. There are no, there is no safety. West Anderson perfect. example. You use some of his movies, focus to some of his movies. It seems like there's a model around the West Anderson movie where he gets his financing, and then he comes and takes it to the market, and you have a certain degree of certainty about what you can do with those movies. Yeah, and those movies are super proud of, but I don't think that there's, I don't think that's a, that's based on those, on those movies. West Anderson has a filmmaker making a movie that all together is the thing. He's an incredible filmmaker who has a really loyal following love his movies. Some of our greatest movies are West Anderson movies. I think that is an important thing. I think that's true in the industry as a whole, but I don't think it's, it's not a, it's not a mechanical calculation. It's a creative process. You're not the perfect example. Big hits and very small. Yeah, and I love all those movies that we've made with him and all the movies that he's made that we haven't made and some rich big audiences and some don't reach big audiences. Some are kind of aimed for big audiences. Some are aimed for smaller audiences. Ideally, the budgets are in line with that so that nobody gets hurt too bad, but, but, but that's the creative process and that's the nature of it. And, and, and no one filmmaker is, I don't think is equal, like, like, it's about, there are just making movies and trying to connect with audiences and, and tell stories. And that is the process that connects with audiences. What about actors? I think that having the right actor in the right role in the right, with the right filmmaker. That's the magic. That's what we're all looking for. I don't think, I don't think it's about, I think for any artist, for, for writers, for directors, for actors, for studios, you need the right fit. Not every movie is right for us. Not every movie do we see. That's true, that's true for, you know, all parts of this business. And so, I think it's having the right fit that excites the audience as opposed to solely. Obviously, some people are more well-known. Some people automatically drive. Emma Stone. Yeah. She's a searchlight star. We love her. And when you have her in, in, in a great role, it is, like, nothing else. It's tremendous. It's tremendous, it's tremendous. How do you tell if, um, those are great actors doing great work? How can you judge if there's an actor that you work with that you think can cross over and become a good director? I mean, it's not so much for us that we have, like, a vision of, like, we work with this actor and, and believe in them, it's a, as a director. I would say it's more in those conversations. First of all, you can, you, you get a sense when you're working with people of, like, what's their creative point of view? And then, and then it tends to be a conversation when they have a project that they want to make. It's not necessarily us saying you should be a director. It's more them saying you don't think if, if you're, you see someone on set or the way they're talking about it, you go, because I, like, in sports, for example, I think you can often tell based on how someone behaves, thinks about the game, that they be a good manager. Yeah, sure. I have my own point of view of that. I'm encouraging of people to explore, if they're interested in exploring it, same with writers who want to be directors, same with directors who want to be producers, same with, you know, for sure. And in those conversations, you know, ideally, you're having creative conversations with people about the things that they want to do and what they dream in the stories you want to tell. And there's some people who do one thing, and they have a specific vision for a movie that they want to direct. That's the one movie that's going to be the perfect thing for the directors, other people who can do the widest range of things, and both are great things. And so it's less my vision for it, although I definitely like meet people who I'm like, wow, that person has a big wide-ranging vision, and they know how to tell stories, more their desires. I've also met people who I thought, I met actors who I thought could be sounding directors who have just no interest in it at all. And so I think part of that is, and writers too. And so part of that is, what do they want to do and how can we help them do it? What impresses you in a pitch? I think it's story, you know, on its basic level of storytelling. But that storytelling is the story itself. It's a cinematic vision. It's the collaboration with actors. It's all the pieces of it. You need, you know, film as a collaborative art. You need all the pieces together. So you have to have a vision for who's the right person in it, what's that going to mean, how's that going to work with that actor? What's the story? What's the way you're going to tell the story? It's not so much the story of the plot. It tends to be all the other pieces around it. All right, we have to wrap up. I have one question. Do you want to go first in your last question? Sure. I'll go first and you go second. What's the one movie that one of your competitors has this year that you're most jealous of? The Odyssey. No, for real though. That's for real? That's for real. You're jealous of that? You were going to go and get $3 million for that movie? I'll tell you, I went to see that movie. It took me really long time to the movie because I could not get tickets because it was very hard to get tickets. I ended up seeing that movie at the Alex Theatre in Glendale, which is a great theater. It's a theater that has not shown a movie since 1996, I think. It shows plays and musicals and concerts and all sorts of stuff. They put in 70 millimeter projection. It was a great experience. And as I came out of the theater, I saw it on a Sunday night in that theater. As I came out of the theater, the crowd around, there's a window in the back of the projection booth and the crowd was like 60 of people just staring at the 70 millimeter film sitting. It wasn't even being projected. It was just sitting there on flatters. So eager to see it. And I think that's a great cinematic experience. We're going to have Wild Horse 9 at the Alex for a couple days for a special engagement in 35. I think that's a special cinematic experience. I think there's theaters all around the country that are doing that. I think that's what we want to do with audiences and theaters. All right. Scale of 1 to 10. 10 being most scared, one being not scared at all. Very scared right now. How scared are you that Josh tomorrow will wake up one day, look at his budgets, look at some of the challenges that Disney is facing and we'll do a Thanos snap and search light is gone. I'm not scared at all. You're not scared at all. Okay. All right. Well, that's good. I think everyone here is excited, but I'm excited that you're not scared. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Thank you all of you. Imagine setting your makeup then forgetting it's even theirs. 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