How to place op-eds in City AM

[Music] Welcome to On The Rocks, a podcast from Rocks Hill Media that asks some of the best journalists in the UK for their solutions to the kind of dilemmas that confront PR's daily. We know there's not one size fits all we have communicating with journalists, so we're going out to the writers in the newsroom to hear how they like to work with PR's and how to stand out in their inboxes. My name is Alessia Horwich, I'm a former Sunday Times journalist, now the brand director at Rocks Hill. Today we're going to be talking about how to pitch OPPEDS to City AM with opinion and features editor Alice Demby. Alice, thank you so much for coming in, so it's exciting to speak to you. Before we get into the City AM thing and lots of big opinions, tell me a little bit about you, how did you get into journalism? And I mean how did you end up being the opinion editor and features editor at City AM? It's quite a diagonal route to be honest, so I sort of first got the idea about entering journalism at university when a tutor, and I think he meant this as an insult, said that my essay was written in quite a journalistic style. And I was like, oh great, sort of snappy and fluid, I think he probably just meant short and superficial. But so from there I sort of did some writing for the local paper. I honestly thought I would be end up more of an arts journalist, I did like play reviews and that sort of thing at uni. Then after that I did a couple of internships and in fact ended up interning with you, Alexia, a website called Money Magpie, long time ago. Then I did the City AMA as many people do, did the Daily Mail trainee scheme, hated working at the Daily Mail? Did you go? Yes. And also just kind of started getting really interested in politics, so I then decided to jack journalism and got a job working for an MP, did that for five years, super interesting, amazing time, but a lot changed in that period. What was that period? 2015 to 2020, so I left. My gosh, what a time. I know it was quite a time. It was really interesting to be there, but I feel like I left it about the right time, just as Boris Johnson became Prime Minister, so I was glad to be out of it during that slightly chaotic period. And then from there I got a job at a website called CapEx, which is a sort of magazine of a think tank that was founded by Margaret Thatcher, called the Centre for Policy Studies, so kind of combining politics and journalism there, and from there I got this job at City AM, so quite a secure to this route. Yeah, but also bringing lots of kind of different sources and experience to this role, which is great because I think the diversity of the voices that you're reflecting is rich, and that's probably the key to why your sections shines, do you think? I hope so. I also think in journalism it's really important to have some real-world experience, or have something that you're deeply knowledgeable about, and I suppose for me that probably is more of the sort of policy and Westminster worlds, but in my job at City AM I'm obviously across the sort of business world as well, but these two things crucially really intersect. Yeah, so tell me a bit about the voices that you're looking for for your section. What I always look for is something that reflects the sort of values of City AM, which are essentially pro-business, but it's pro-business in the sense that we believe that business is an engine for growth, we believe that London is the UK's most important economic asset, but we don't believe that business is just about enriching a wealthy elite. We believe that business is about jobs, it's about growth, it's about helping the whole country, and also that it's about stories. When you talk to founders and entrepreneurs, they often have amazing stories for how they came up with their ideas, or how they saw it through. So I always look for a voice that sort of reflects those values. I mean also people who, it sounds really simple, but people who have an opinion. Yeah. It's quite, sometimes that can be hard to find in business because often, especially I think the bigger the company you are, the more afraid you are of trading on toes or putting people's backs up. So sometimes it's much more interesting for me to have, say, a founder from a tiny startup who has a real passion or a real point they want to make or something they're really angry about, and those are the voices I kind of like to platform. I mean that must be a gift when somebody's and sensed about something in this way and drops into your inbox, you're like, hello. Yes, it's perfect. But you see there's a lot like, you know, often how the way regulations are made, they don't necessarily think of the unintended consequences. So there might be a huge way that this affects a certain sector that they just haven't thought about. So I mean the big one for us at the moment is how things like the increase in the national living wage, workers' rights, and the national insurance increases massively affecting sectors like hospitality, which is so important for the vitality of London and have such huge knock on effects for high streets and so on everywhere. I mean also likewise for things like hairdressers, for childcare, all of those sort of smaller businesses that wider economy really relies on. So those again are the sort of things that we like to highlight. Like what is the government not seeing here and what should it be looking at? That's quite interesting because potentially those types of businesses are not ones that you would associate with City AM. But you are saying actually that's really important for for building out the wider economic picture. Yeah, I mean I think we're quite I think that the bigger businesses as you say, the sort of big city businesses are less affected and more able to absorb these kind of changes, but they are extremely affected by the halo effect. So women for example, very badly affected by problems with childcare, by how expensive it is, by how hard it is to find. But also I think we care deeply about the vitality of London and London being a great place to work and build a career and start a business and raise a family and if it's not fun, then that's a problem for us. Yeah, I mean London is really important because I guess that if a PR is pitching to you, they might be dealing with the company that operates nationally and they have to find that London angle. Is that a real tell when you're getting a pitch if it's London is not mentioned, is it a real turn off immediately? Yes, I know. I mean essentially yes, I am always really looking for a London angle, but then sometimes there will be things, it depends on the person that are from outside London that I will look at. So for example, we had an op-ed recently from the mayor of the West Midlands when there was that big real estate conference that was on up in Leeds. So that obviously has wider relevance to London as well. So I mean I do take things with an outside London angle. I mean when that was pitched to you, did you have to bring that London angle or had they thought of that? Because there was this big conference on that lots of people involved in planning and development and so on would have been at, they wanted to read about it. It was sort of still, it was relevant, it was kind of topical in that sense. Yeah, you know, we are interested in the wider UK economy. If there's another region that's getting things really right, you know, for example, if I, you know, I would love to hear from somewhere that is managing to build great infrastructure that does have great nightlife. I mean another good example, we had an op-ed this week from Sasha Lord who was advisor to Andy Berner Manchester. I think Manchester has got a lot of things right on the nighttime economy that London could learn from. So it would look at something like that definitely. How important are the pegs to you? You can't just be featuring random CEO saying stuff whenever there has to be a peg. How does it work? No, the pegs are really important. So I mean I suppose it's probably helpful to your listeners if I sort of describe what my inbox looks like. Yeah, I mean I get, you know, between 50 and 100 pictures a day. So I honestly, I can't read them all. So the subject line is really important and it's really in the subject line that I want to see what the peg is. And it has to be something topical, it has to be something, it's a new cycle. It has to be something that people are going to be searching for online because our hits really matter to us. I mean are there many things to the year that you have already highlighted that you're going to be dedicating that week to that topic? Or is it, I mean what's your lead times like, you know, how reactive do you want to be? I mean I'd like to be pretty reactive. I think the main sort of way markers in the year would be around fiscal events. But then I also really like a cultural peg. I love a fun pop culture peg because that always does really well online. If there's something like, you know, show that everyone's talking about on Netflix that you can somehow make relevant. I love that sort of thing because it's just more fun. Yeah. And then obviously there's a difference between print and online. So tell me about that. Well, so for print I'm much more looking definitely for things about London. Definitely for something that I think people are going to want to read about on the tube. For online it can be much more targeted at particular audience. So say you have a big CEO who maybe doesn't, maybe not the most like snappy opinion, but it's something that everyone in that industry is going to want to read. Okay. That would be more appropriate for online I would say. What's the ratio? How many are you running on in print? Because print's choosing as a first day now. Yes. We do three a day in print and I tried to do a few more online and then obviously a few online sort of three online Monday, three online Friday. I think probably the max like in sort of the max I sort of have capacity for is five a day. I was going to say that's a lot for you to be able to think. Yeah. I mean talk to me about the state that these columns need to be arriving to you in. You know how much are they pre-written and they completely pre-written when they're pitched or would you, I mean how does the commissioning process work? It depends actually. I don't have a sort of set format. I suppose from your perspective it's maybe not always worth the effort of writing the whole thing in advance in case it gets rejected. So I think from your guys perspective a few bullet points outlining what's the pitch, what's the argument, who's the writer, why is this the best writer for this subject is really helpful and if it saves you time, don't bother writing the whole thing. But when you send it to me I do want it to be perfect. I don't want to be spending time making edits, making you know language improvements. That's interesting, okay. So that that means a lot of, I mean who I'm interested to see if it's the actual you know spokesperson needs writing it or if it's the PR. Does it matter to you? No it doesn't, I suppose It matters in the sense that I wanted to have an authentic tone, but I think often you guys are much better writers than your clients. - The PRs, the PRs, yeah. - Well, then you guys know what you're doing a lot of you have background in journalism, right? So I don't mind, I mean, I, I, I mind, it's quite tedious for an editor to be having to like correct spelling and grammar and stuff. - Oh gosh, definitely. - So I don't want that. - How long are they? - We usually say 600 words, but can be longer online, obviously, but the slots in print are about 600 words. - Yeah, and what's the, I mean, what is the secret to making it interesting? - Oh God, I think if we all knew that then we would never get a picture rejected, right? - Five a day, you mustn't know, come on. - Topicality, counterintuitive opinion is always good, like something that goes against the prevailing orthodoxy. Really interesting example or case study, something that brings it to life. I love anything that's got a human story, like something inspiring about how a business can help people or like a really great little narrative about how a founder came up with the idea of their business. Something like that that can like bring a story to life is always great. Yeah, I mean, I think the important thing in opinion is to have an opinion, right? I can't stress that enough. Like the stuff that I get sometimes where you can tell, and this is especially a weakness, I think, of bigger organisations, where it goes through so many layers of approval that it just gets watered down and then stop not saying anything. - Yeah. - Is that often when you've kind of accepted a pitch, and then the actual thing arrives and you're like, "Well, this isn't really marrying." - Yeah, exactly. Like, yes, that's very disappointing when it happens. And more often than not, it's when you've got a big name, CEO, and you're really excited, and it comes back to you saying nothing at all. - I mean, is the caliber of the person important to you? - It obviously is important, and there are some people I'm probably never going to say no to, like the head of the FCA wants to write for CityA, the CityMinist, there are certain people I'm never going to say no to. But honestly, what matters most to me is that they have something interesting to say, and that they're the most appropriate person to say it, of the submissions you get for your inbox. What proportion of them offer interesting controversial opinions versus kind of bland? Like 30, 70 interesting versus bland, I would say? - Yeah, I think that's probably. - I also have my own prejudices about what I find interesting though. Tell me about that. - So I have a massive prejudice against things that I suppose you could just obviously tell that clients are trying to get themselves in the media for to be associated with. So AI, I think, is one of them at the moment. I like AI is a super interesting topic, but every pitch I get is the same, and it's very clear to me that a client is saying, "I'm at the forefront of AI, make sure people know about it." So I can attract investment, right? And I just find that very transparent. - In that scenario, what would you advise the PR to do when the client comes in and says that? I mean, do they need to kind of delve into the business a little bit more and find something, find an angle where that business is doing something differently? - Yeah, I think find something amazing that. Because AI is doing lots of incredible things, right? Like when when chat GPT first came out and people were like, "Oh my god, it sounds like a human." That was amazing. So if you can find something as kind of astonishing as that, then I'll be interested. Very few people seem to have something new to say about it. - Is there like a shrug test that the PR can kind of go like when they hear what the premise of the op ed is and they're like, "Mmm, you know, would that grip me?" - I think that's a very sensible way to test things. And obviously I recognise that that's quite difficult to go about your client with, but I think trust your instincts. If you find it boring, it probably is. - You probably will. If only Roxhill did monitoring. If only we had a penny for every time we heard that phrase. Well, the weight is over. Let us introduce you to the only fully integrated media intelligence platform. One login, multiple solutions, with media monitoring you can trust from Roxhill. We've taken the same expertise and attention to detail we apply to our database and created a platform designed for PR pros like you. To stay ahead of the conversation, spot opportunities and measure your impact. With fully customizable metrics to track performance and limited branded newsletters to showcase your achievements and smart folders to clearly organise your coverage, start your day stress-free, access to future of media monitoring today. Visit Roxhillmedia.com/media-monaturing. I've wondered about any sectors that you want to hear more from. Yeah, I mean, it's a good question because I often feel like in my job I have to have a sort of wide and shallow knowledge of a lot of sectors. So obviously the main ones that we cover are law and the city finance generally. I guess an SMEs and tech. I feel like I know a little tiny bit about all these sectors and always interested to deepen my knowledge. I suppose I'm more interested in hearing about like amazing business ideas or amazing stories and it doesn't matter that much to me which sector it is as long as it's part of what makes up the city of London. How do you decide what the regular economists are going to write about versus ones that you're placing from CEOs? I mean is there overlap or is it are there areas that only your columnists can kind of deal with and you don't want to take from outside voices? No, no. I mean so we do have two regular columnists who basically cover AI all the time. So again, another reason why it's really hard to pick it. Another reason why it's very hard to pitch to me on AI. For my regular columnists usually they will get in touch with me a couple of days before they're slot and we'll talk through some topics and they obviously each have different areas of expertise and usually they'll be writing about probably what's sort of a big political or economic story of the week and they'll sort of cover that. But no, I mean there's nothing that's sort of out of bounds and especially I'm always interested to hear you know when there's something where your clients might have particular expertise that can really enlighten something that's very topical and in the news you know it's always really useful to hear from you. Yeah, I was going to say because you know someone who might have an inside view on a particular issue is going to be equally as valuable to your readers as your regular columnists. Yeah, absolutely. Because the regular columnists are people who are like good writers with strong opinions but they're not all necessarily like business experts. But you need that combo with strong opinion. I think plus, plus business. Yeah, exactly. You want to see stuff that people are going to like read that's going to be entertaining but also proper insight and analysis that is useful to people in business. Yeah, definitely. Tell me about the struggle for diversity in the people you're. It's a real struggle. I suppose one thing I always comfort myself is that however many like white men there are on the page every day, there's always me. Always you. So I suppose we have certain sections where we're always looking for more diversity. So we have a really nice feature called Square Mile and Me which is just a sort of soft focus business leader, where do they get their coffee, where do they go to restaurants and stuff and it's a lovely big picture of them and we definitely don't want that to always just be an old white man. Obviously I do really try across the week to make sure I've got a decent range but there will often be several days where the entire print edition is men apart from me. But I hope that they will always have a diversity of sort of thought and perspective. Do you think that as a PR it's worth investing in trying to find spokesperson people within your organisation who are not white men? Absolutely, I think that's worth doing. I suppose I would say I have felt a bit of a, it's a terrible phrase but a vibe shift since Trump came in in terms of this kind of DEI agenda. It feels a bit like certain aspects of the city are sort of turning it against not against the agenda but not prioritising it to the same extent as they once might have done. How does that make you feel? I mean I guess I'm asking how does CTAM feel about that? I think CTAM would take the view that what's most, it's merit that is more important than identity. I don't think we would want anyone to feel that they've been put on a board or whatever it might be because of who they are rather than because of the skills they bring to the table. But that said, you know merit is not a sort of level playing field for everybody. So how do you translate that into your pages? Good question. Again I suppose I always like to focus more on the opinion than on the person. I think that makes sense because that's what is going to make you read an article. I think so. But yeah obviously there are many other sections where we would like to highlight other voices and other backgrounds and so on. Okay so from my sort of little recap at the end to like to do like the main takeaway, I mean obviously the main takeaway for me is have a really strong opinion about something. Something's going to knock your socks off at the subject line. When somebody is pitching to you, when does that pitch need to arrive to you and you know how much time are you actually going to give it? How many words they got to grab your attention at the top? I mean about six words. Like I say my inbox is just a nightmare and I try to be disciplined about it and do a sort of shift in the morning, a shift at lunch and a shift before I leave, I rarely get to be that disciplined. I do try and reply to everybody because I know how much I know how annoying it is to you guys when you don't get reply and so I do try and just do a very quick thank you going to pass if it's a no. So I would say the best. time to get my attention would be in the morning before 10am earlier in the week the better because I sort of plan across the week. What has a PR always got to get right when they're pitching to you? My name, my publication, that do get that wrong because I know that you're pitching to several. Occasionally get things for the FT, that's not great. And not just like the correct publication but also the correct angle for us. So you know if you're pitching me something about like amazing opportunities and Dubai, it's like well that's not really. You don't know, this is a London paper. Are there any other little things that like PRs you work with often do that actually really make your job easier? I mean do they ever sort of say things like, oh I saw you did this piece with this person last week. My guy has an opinion about that that might be in response to it or my guy thinks something similar about about this bit of the city or whatever. What do you think is that helpful? Yeah I think it's definitely. I think what's super helpful to me is if you're reading the paper and engaging with it. A tiny thing but that's really helpful is links to sources and stuff in your copy because it makes a huge difference to Google. It just gives your pieces more. So if you've got a data point or report, like often I'll get a piece that's an op head off the back of a report but it won't have the link to the report and that's really annoying because I have to put it in and it's just waste of your time because surely you're trying to promote this report. So I mean that's really basic but it is really helpful. What I value most about contributions and pictures from PRs is your creative ideas. Like sometimes you just have like a peg or an angle that I just wouldn't have thought of that's a new and interesting way to talk about business. So you're saying more of that please. Like, get your idea. And I'm sure that's more fun for you. Yeah definitely and it's more fun for everybody to read. Exactly. Great. Thanks Alex. Thank you. Pleasure.