2908: How to Pick the Right Workout: The Most Important Question to Ask Before You Start

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, with your hosts. Salta Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the most downloaded fitness health and entertainment podcast, approaching over half a billion downloads. It's Mind Pump. Today's episode, we answered questions that people posted on our Instagram page, Mind Pump Media. We answered four of them. This was after the intro. Today's intro is 52 minutes long. We talked about fitness and muscle gain, fat loss, about scientific studies, family life, always a good time. This episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Paleo Valley. Today we talked about their meat sticks, six grams of protein each. A four of them a day, boost your protein 24 grams, only 280 calories. A great way to eat a little extra. Give you that protein that you need. And eat something that's delicious and very close to something that's whole natural. 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Why not show it by rocking one of our shirts, hats, mugs, or training gear over at mypumpstore.com. I'm talking right now. Hit pause. Head on over to mypumpstore.com. That's it. Enjoy the rest of the show. All right, you're thinking about working out. You want to get in shape. You just don't know what the right workout is for you. What should it be? What should it look like? How often we're going to talk about that right now. How we can help you pick the right workout for your goals. Where you going? Let's go. Where you going with this? Well, it's just the question people often ask. What's the right way to work? I know it's such a vague question. It's such a vague question. I'm trying to figure out where you're going with it. Well, the question is Adam. Somebody comes up to you and says, how do I know what the. How do I pick the right? I know what you propose that right now. And Justin, I have nothing to say because we know the very first thing we're going to say back to you is, well, that depends. That's right. What is it? Yeah. What are your goals? What do you do currently right now? How long have you been working out for? It's exactly. Here's the first thing. And I love your guys' opinion on this. I'm sure you'll guys will agree. But I think the first thing people need to consider when picking a workout is, do you enjoy it? Now, that sounds stupid to someone because someone's like, I just want to get these results. I just want to burn body fat. I just want to whatever. But the truth is, the thing you enjoy doing, again, so long as it's appropriate, right? Yeah, as you just going to say that there's a bit of. You got to be careful when you say that because I feel like there's a lot of people who find enjoyment and suffering and punishing themselves. Find enjoyment playing a sport, even though that doesn't align with their goal. So I don't like to lead off with this. I do think that it's important to note that if this person is going to be consistent, long term, that you have to learn to love or enjoy the thing that you're doing. But leading off with this in this conversation to me sets a lot of people up for failure because a lot of people have a terrible relationship. First of all, the exercise they don't even know what they like or don't like. Or they've never experienced a good, healthy relationship or balance with exercise looks like. Or two, the modality that they choose because they quote-unquote "love it" doesn't align with the goal and the outcome. This, again, speaks more to like having a meeting with a coach to kind of identify these things. Because I don't, to your point, I don't necessarily think people have the right idea of what would be best and like, prescriptive-wise. I think that it can be a bit misleading like what they emotionally want to do or like, it might not actually be the most beneficial for them. That's perfect. Where you guys are going is perfect. That's why this is a good conversation because you're 100% right. How many times do people lie to themselves about what they enjoy doing? People are like, "Oh, I love running every single day." And then you try a different modality to get better results and suddenly they're like, "I actually didn't like running so much." I guess a good way to answer it because there's new ones to it. We're going to get to that. But one way to answer this is like, "Would you do this if you got no results from it? Would you do this form of activity if all you got from it was you doing that?" You just did that activity. Like, that's a really good way to know whether or not you enjoy it. I mean, and that's a great way to position that when you get somebody who says something like that, right? Or they tell you something like, "Hey, I really want to build this bud or I want to look this way, but I love running marathons." Yeah. And so you ask them like, "Well, if running marathons never got you that body or never got you that bud, would you still do it?" And if they say, "Yes, I love them." Okay, well then then we got to find a way to include some runs in there to let you enjoy that because I think that's important to overall health. Exactly. It's like the question of like, "What would you do for a living if you had all the money in the world?" And then it just come out as a thing that someone would enjoy. Right. But the answer you typically get when I say that and I position it like that, I almost always get the, "Well, my friend who runs all the time, she's got this great ass." They will always point to that or they were, "Well, I was in the best shape of my life when I used to run two or three marathons a year, and so I just want to get back to that." Yeah. And so you also are positioned with this other challenge. Because what comes, 100%, right? Because what I said was a super oversimplification. Like, would you enjoy doing this if you gave you no results? Super oversimplification because in real life, what contributes to whether or not you like what you do is A or one, I enjoy doing it because I just enjoy doing it. But then it's also what it does for me, which contributes to my enjoyment, right? Like, you can fall in love with it in activity because of how it makes you feel and because of how it improves the quality of your life. So you can't necessarily separate the two. 100% right? Yeah, and as a coach, I consider these like hot buttons. So if somebody's like describes in detail, like, "I really love running, I've always loved. " So I know that like that form of movement is enjoyable for them and I can kind of like start catering, prescribing something that like would actually benefit them because I know they're going to keep showing up. No, I had a one, this reminds me of a client a hundred years ago, this woman that I trained, she was in her at the time, I think late 40s. And she wanted to hire me because she started to get kind of nagging aches and pains from her favorite form of exercise or activity, which was dancing. So she did salsa dancing. And I think she did like four days a week. She was really good at it. She did it for years. It kept her pretty darn fit. And she came to me because she started getting these nagging issues. And so she really had no interest in strength training, aside from the fact that she heard that strength training could prevent some of these aches and pains. And so what I did is we applied strength training as a way to allow her to continue to do the thing that she loved so much. And this is why this is such an important question because if you really enjoy swimming or you really enjoy cycling or you really enjoy basketball or hiking and it's just something you really love to do just for the sake of doing it, other modalities of exercise can be used and probably should be used to help or to allow you to continue to do the thing. That's right. To help you continue to do the thing. But it's so important everybody. And this is a very complex question. It sounds very simple and I oversimplified it earlier. But it's such an important question because if the thing that you're doing for exercise is something that you hate, that you despise. And I know people listening know exactly what I'm talking about. We've all gone through that thing, well we do that thing because we think it's good for us. But we wake up in the morning like, oh, I gotta go do that workout. I hate it. If you always hate it, you're not going to do it. It's just not going to work. It's not going to be consistent. Nobody does something that they hate every single day. It's not a strategy. For years and years and years and less or absolutely forced. So enjoying it is a bit more complex. And so we'll get to some of that stuff. But it has to be something that you enjoy or you can learn to enjoy. Otherwise, this isn't going to happen. I mean, I think it's such an important question so much so that whatever you answer, you should even question your own beliefs. Totally. Because I think that, at least in my experience, more than half the people that told me that this is what they love to do or believe that this is what they should do or wanted to do to get whatever said result, we're wrong. We're wrong about what they liked. They thought that because they had this relationship with it. Whether it was a bad one or abusive, where it was a punishment thing. And they felt cathartic when they beat themselves up in the workout. And therefore they told themselves they'd love to do it. Or two, they identified with a way their body looked at one point in their lives while they were also doing said modality. Or they've got a friend who they've got to do it. admire and look up to and that's how they train. And so there's like, I mean, I can't tell you how many times someone has told me, this is what I enjoy to do, I love to do, that was wrong. Yeah, and you know what's important about this atom is, because someone listening is probably, I guarantee, there's people who are like, I don't like anything. I don't like any form of physical activity or exercise. So what do I do now? And I'm gonna tell you right now what you do, because this is what I did as a coach and a trainer. You figure this out, by the way, as a coach. When you train people for a long enough period of time, you start to realize that the most important thing I can do, and I got to train people properly, I got to make sure they exercise the right way, you don't hurt themselves, you know, do all the right stuff. But the most important thing I could do as a coach is make this an enjoyable session every time you show up. And so there are ways to do this. What does this look like? Well, let's say you're like, look, I'm gonna walk every day. I'm gonna make sure I get, you know, 12,000 steps a day. That's the form of exercise I'm gonna start with. I hate doing it, I hate going outside and walking for that long, I hate doing it. How can I make this something I enjoy? I'm gonna go with my friend. And my friend is also committed to this, and you know, we have the best conversations, and I get to see my friend and hang out with them. So that's what I'm gonna do, or I'm gonna listen to a book while I do it. Or I'm gonna go to this gym that has this great community, and the thing I actually look forward to, and the reason why I enjoy it, is the people that are there. So there are ways to help yourself enjoy something. And there are also, are ways to help you to make yourself hate something. Like, here's a great way to make you hate something, okay? That you do it so hard that each time you regret that you actually did that workout, where you leave and you feel like you're dying. This is a great way to hate working out. And I know sometimes people love that. You keep doing that long enough, and you're gonna hate it. I promise you. If every workout feels like you survived, at some point you're gonna wake up and be like, "I really don't wanna do this." And it's a fast track to a bad relationship with that person. Let me address the common one that you just said, because it is common, that you would get a client that would say something like, "I don't like anything." I don't like any of that. It's more often, if not always, the person who, it's like, they've had five jobs that they've tried. And none of them paid them. They went to work for six months at this new job, and they got no check, and they got no paid, and they hated it, so they went to the next job. Same thing. And then, so their relationship with that work or all those modalities is horrible, because the ROI was terrible. That's right. Now, that's 100%. If I can show you a way to get, and by the way, ROI isn't always mere in scale and body fat percentage to the point where you're going. If I can show you how just adding a walk for 10 minutes after your meals, all of a sudden, makes your digestion better, and you sleep better, which then makes your mood better. If I can connect those dots for you, a 10 minute walk, I can start to enjoy that, because I can connect the ROI, and then I have something to build on. And then, if I could show you, hey, if we just did five sets of squats in a week, that's it, nothing else. And I show you strength gains, because I balance that out with proper nutrition goes down. Yeah, pain goes down, strength goes up, and you start to build a little bit of a butter, and that's all you did with five sets of squats, all week and nothing else, and you're 10 minutes. And then, so you start getting this connection to a return on your investment that you'll, I kind of do like this. There's also this other point too, Adam, because you brought up the jobs thing. It's really interesting. You see this with athletes. Athletes who love the sport that they play, absolutely genuinely love it, who get to the professional level, there's a psychological phenomenon where many of them stop, start not loving what they did, because now it's almost, it's a job. It's a job. And so I know people have heard this before, and I think this is again, an oversimplification, but there's truth in it, which is, there's a difference between I have to work out, and I get to work out. And so that's an attitude. I have to go do this thing. If you keep going at it with that I have to, or you feel like you're forced, you're moving towards a relationship where you can eventually quit it. Versus I get to go do this thing, my body moves, I get to go, and express itself in a different way, just like a job. Oh, I have to work, because I gotta pay these bills, versus man, I get to go to work. It's a different mentality completely, but to go kind of the direction you are, here's part of what we're talking about, which is how effective is this method for your goal? And now how do you determine effectiveness? Here's the way you determine it. It's not how great, how fast it gets you to your goals. It's not that. It's how much time do you invest versus how much you get out? Yes, right. That's effectiveness, because I can give you a workout that gives you great results that requires, you know, 40 hours a week of investment, and I don't care how great the results are, you're not gonna do it. You're not gonna work out 40 hours a week. But if I could show you a form of exercise, where you can invest very little time in comparison to the results that you get, a lot of people, this is something that people really like, and this contributes a lot to the fact that they enjoy it. One form of exercise does this for a lot of different goals, and that's strength training. What's unique about strength training? Yes, it builds muscle, it builds strength, but it's unique in the sense that you don't need a lot of it to get really good results. When you're training with other modalities, you tend to need to invest a lot more time to get something back from it. Like if I'm just trying to burn calories or build endurance, I gotta do a lot to really build lots of endurance. Strength training? Average person does one day a week of strength training. You're gonna see significant strength gains from it. Dude, I'll back it off even more, like I said. If all somebody did, if you met somebody once a week, who once a week did five sets of squats and nothing else, but they never missed once a week, they always do five sets of squats. Over years, how good that person would get at that movement and the benefits that come from knowing how to do a proper good squat and the strength gains over the time and what that would do to your body, to your mobility, to your energy, to your metabolism. I mean, there's such a huge ROI on it. I have a guy that I'm training right now, good friend of mine, very smart guy, highly educated, works in the medical field. He's always been a cyclist, he's always been a runner, he's always tried to stay fit, and I started training him, you know, we started working out once a week together. And I'm explaining to him how exercise really works, how we send this signal. We're looking for adaptation. You're already an ER doc, you've got lots of stress, your sleep is crap half the time, so we can't apply too much stress. And so I'm telling him all this stuff logically, he gets it, he's a smart guy. And I can communicate it very well, right? So I've been doing this for a long time. So he gets it, but as we're training, you could tell he's like, maybe I should go harder. Like, are you sure I should go out? South, should I do more on my off days? And I'm like, listen, if you're getting stronger in here, what you are, it's working. And so I've been working with this guy now for eight weeks, and he comes in now, and he's like, you know what, I heard you, I believe, do intellectually, but I didn't feel the belief 'cause I had an experience, he goes, this is the craziest thing. He goes, I've never looked forward to working out. I look forward to it now, 'cause I feel good. I don't feel like I got the crap beat out of me. I'm getting stronger. It almost feels like I'm doing nothing, and my body's responding. Now it feels like nothing, 'cause in comparison to how he used to train himself, it was like he would slam himself into the ground. Now he's training appropriately, he's getting a huge ROI for the investment that he's putting in. And guess what's happening with his relationship with it? He loves it. He says that our sessions, once a week, and this is a very busy guy, is the highlight of his week. Tell me what that's doing to his relationship with fitness. And so a big factor that you need to consider with your consistency, with your workout, picking the right workout is, how effective is this for the goal that I'm after? And if your goal is fat loss or muscle gain or strength or changing how you look or mobility, one form of exercise gives you the most ROI in that strength training. And for most people, it looks like once a week, or twice a week, that's it. And that's just something to consider. And I want people to understand that, 'cause that plays a big role. And then lastly, you also got to consider this. What is the most appropriate for me in my life? It's got to be appropriate for me in my life. Long term, too. Not just in this spring. Six month window until the wedding or this three month summer or this moment of time, it's what is most appropriate that I could do this forever. That's right. Like this is something I can build into my life. It will be a part of my life forever, back to your point of one to two times a week, it's because it's realistic that no matter what time of your life, you are at or what phase of your life you're in, that's an appropriate commitment for most people. Which is why you want to start there. And we can always build up as you fall in love with this. That's right. And you tell me. That's right. This is the highlight of my life. That we get to work on as the enjoyment back to the beginning. Yes. And that's why it's such an individual experience and something that we can't just be like, "Oh, here's the formula. Here's the exact workout that's probably best for the general population." It really isn't about that. It's not really being honest with yourself and having that kind of inventory to where, you understand your own behaviors and you can really assess, like, is this too much? Is this something I can just get up and do right now and then just work on an mentality towards it? And understand that this is a relationship and going to the gym once or twice, going on one or two dates, it's not going to build a marriage. It's going to have a healthy marriage. It takes time. That's right. You have to work on this. And so you might be listening to this and you might be the person who says, "I don't like any modalities. I hate it." And then you hear this advice. And then you go to the gym one time, like we say. And you're still hating it. And you're okay still hating it. It's like, "Cool, you went on one date." You know what I'm saying? Like, "Cort this for a while and take it slow and learn about it." and start to connect the dots, and then start to change your language, and then over time that shift will happen, to expect that to happen in one day, that all of a sudden you go from the person who said, "I hate this," to, "Oh, I get it now, "this is all I had to do, and I love it." It's like, no, you gotta, it takes time to build that relationship. - It does take time, and again, this is kind of like we're speaking up here, right? We're like a thousand foot view, we're looking down, we're kind of giving this general advice. People, I'm sure, like, give me some specifics. What would this look like for most people? So I'm gonna give some general, kind of what it would look like for most people, not everybody, but for most people, but this would probably look like is this. This is what a lifestyle of, I enjoy doing it, that it's effective for, what I'm looking for, what most people are looking for, is overall health and fitness and improvement in quality life, and that it's appropriate for people and their life. So this is, I'm gonna speak very generally. This is probably what it's gonna look like. One or two days a week of strength training, full body, so what's it gonna look like? You're gonna walk daily to the tune of about 8,000 steps a day, and once a week you play something. Once a week you think to yourself, what's a fun physical thing I can go do once a week right now? And I don't care what it is, I don't care if you go to the park and you throw the frisbee, I don't care if you're gonna hike with your wife, I don't care if you go swim in the lake, but that play part once a week, I think is so important for people. And that's generally what's gonna look like. And if you did that, if everybody listening, did that consistently over years and years and years, everybody would look fit and healthy and they'd be very satisfied with the results. And what happens most times is within months, that person gives the feedback that your buddy gave back. Toad is, this becomes the highlight. I now love it, I now like it, and then you can start to slowly build upon that. You know, it's so funny too, 'cause we've done this podcast now for a long time. I've been speaking to fitness forever, but I stopped training people for a long time. And what you don't realize, and I think, I don't remember when you guys communicated this to me a while ago, is you start to forget certain things because you're not training people. I'm just communicating this. And it's all coming back to me. And as I'm training my friend, I'm remembering to really take mental note of the weight that he's lifting because I know what's gonna happen. I know what's gonna happen. I know he's gonna come to me in four weeks and be like, I feel like we're not working it. Yeah, I feel like we're not working out hard enough. And so that actually happened. He's like, I feel like we're not working out hard enough. I'm like, do you know what you started with? On bench press, five weeks ago, and I show him the weight. I'm like, and look what you're lifting now. He's like, that's 40 pounds heavier. It's easier. I added 40 pounds. I'm like, yeah dude, you added 40 pounds. You have to look back, I know. Isn't that crazy? Because they forget, they forget what it was just like. They think they just hit a wall. Four weeks ago. I still progress. And then I waited for the second thing. It's just, God, it's so predictable. I waited for the second thing. The second thing just happened. He told me he's like, man, Saturday I'll see you. I want you trained you really hard. I'm like, all right dude, I'm going to, I'll train you hard, but only if you're rested, you know, we're having that conversation. And I'm like, you know what's going to happen? At some point, he's going to come in, and he's going to tell me, dude, a friend ran into me and told me I look like a, and sure enough, he comes in. He's like, dude, my buddy came up to me and hadn't seen him for like a few months. He's like, bro, what have you been doing? He looks like, he's like, so I think this is what, yeah, it's just working, bro. (laughing) That's so much fun. You guys are working out once a week. That's cool. Is he asking you any stuff nutritionally too, or is he just, everything? 'Cause he's a really, one of my favorite types of people to train are like people who are, either in the medical field, or in that kind of field who like to ask lots of questions, 'cause it like gets me going. So we have these really good at HVS. Yeah, dude, we have these really, really great converse. And of course, he's an ER doc, so I ask him, you know, about work all the time. And he comes, tells me the craziest story. Oh my God, that's crazy, dude. Oh, the place is cars, find their way. And, bro, I don't know how they stay calm during that, half the stuff. He was telling me, I'm not gonna go into details, but people come in just, and he's gotta be calm. Like, I can just make sure this person doesn't die. I'm like, dude, I did an ER nurse for a long time, and I had to stop asking her stories, 'cause it would give me anxiety at night. I'm like, I don't know how you come home from a night or a day like that, and like, you just float it, so they're not holding it on to it. I know I can go through that. Dude, my sister-in-law is a nurse, and she works in the ER, but she works in delivery. And she told me a story, they pushed the baby back. She said I had to push the baby back inside, 'cause the way the baby was coming out. Oh, yeah, it's a turn. I'm like, oh my God, imagine that you're the mom, and you're pushing so hard, and it's almost out, we gotta push baby back. We're gonna try again. It's really, dude. I'm a little bit of a twist. Anyway, I got a nutrition tip for people. That's really simple. Let's do it. So, you know, an easy way to add protein and a little extra calories, if you wanna do a really clean bulk, this is a super easy way to do it. And I was just talking with Doug earlier, 'cause I was eating the Paleo Valley meat sticks. Each meat stick is about six grams of protein, 70 calories on average. If you added four sticks a day, so in between meals, you could have it, you know, could have it before breakfast or with breakfast in between breakfast or lunch. - Or all at once. - Or all at once, but four. - That's my move. - If you have four days, that's easy. 24 grams of protein from, what's pretty close to whole food, at 200 E calories right there. Those are very, very easy. - It's good macros. - That's really good, dude. It's grass fed meat, or chicken, or turkey, whatever you like. And it's 24 grams of protein, 200 E calories, four sticks a day. Super easy. And they can go anywhere with you. - Those are probably, I'd say, between that, I know with Paleo Valley, you also had the donut flavor. - Oh, they're the protein. - They're bone broth. - Between those two, I'd say those are the two, like. - I forgot about that. - Oh yeah, but they're chocolate. - Oh yeah, delicious. - Oh my god. - Engineering magic today. - I mean, I was like, it's a party. I remember when you were, you were telling-- - I remember it tasted a pretty good time. - You were telling it so long. I mean, what I loved about that powder was that, you could, I can do four scoops of it. - Yeah. - And it just digested. - It's like water so easy. - Where I have that upper limit with way, or any dairy product, I can get probably 40 grams, 35, 40 grams in, and I'm okay. I start pushing 60 and above, and it's like, oh, I can feel bubbly guts from it. Where the paleovali, I can, with a bone broth, I can have a ton of protein and be totally fine. And it's easy to take down. - You know what I want to know, Adam? Is the origin of clowns. I heard earlier. (laughing) - I heard Justin say that. - Justin, he's shoe-horring. - Was about to bring it up off, Aaron. I'm like, how dare you? That's a podcast conversation. - Yeah. - I want to hear about this, dude. - I listen to a weird podcast. - Is that a podcast conversation? - Yeah, podcast conversation. - Can we guess what the origin was? Can we try to guess? - Oh, okay. - So what part of the world, and then like, yeah. - What they look like, 'cause this is like archetype stuff. Yeah. - Oh, I bet that's evolved. Has it totally evolved into this? - I'm gonna guess. I'm gonna have a tour of the world. - It's not circus related. - Wait, so that's the first thing I go to is circus. - I would turn into that, but. - I would, okay, I'm gonna guess. - So even if there was something before, so that's something origin. - I'm gonna guess, tooth guess, guess is. Either it started from court gestures. - Oh, far back? - Where kings had to have someone to make them laugh. Or it originated in Italy. And the reason why I say Italy is because the circus originated in Italy. - Well, what has an older origin, circus or rodeo? - Circus is old. - I've rodeo said it. - I think it's circus, dude. - I don't know. - I don't know. - 'Cause you have rodeo culture. - Think about older culture. - You have rodeo, older. - Older than Italy? - Yeah. - Whoa, bro. - Is it a academia? (laughing) - Where we go to your bro? - No, I did from part of the world, I guess. - China? - India. - India. - India has origin of clowns? - This is what they're talking about. Yeah, and like the depiction of it being similar to what we see now in modern circus. - Okay. - It's like having the red hair, the ginger hair, the nose, the red nose, and really? - Yeah. - Which is interesting. Hopefully you can find a culture of it. - Circus goes longer. - Doug, look up origin of clowns. - Significant, you know what I'm gonna say? - Go to India. - Go to India. - Origin of clowns, Italy. - I'm sorry, India, sorry. - India. - Okay, yeah. - I wanna see what the, I have another one here that says Egypt, but, - Oh wow, there you go, even. - Yeah, but further back. - It might be that the clowns as we know with the red hair and so. - Yeah, they're associated with the moderns. - So what were they? - This is the one I found. - Oh my God. - Fifth dynasty of ancient Egypt, about 4,400 years ago. - Oh, so. - Serious authority serving the vital. That's not the same clown clown. - Like I'm thinking of like a clown with the, - Okay, let me get India here. - Can change your hair. - Let me see here, dude. This is, 'cause they were joking like it was like basically they were making fun of English because of the red hair. - Oh, that makes sense. - And yeah, and like using that is sort of like the satirical, blundering. - What's, so they were making fun of the people that were trying to. - This is, this was their speculation. I can't fact check all that, but it was an interesting conversation. - What was, what was the primary job or thing they did? - Has it always been like? - Fumer, poke fun. - So, so how did it, I know Doug's goo in a way, different stuff here, but I'm curious to know how they made it. - Vadoo Shaka, he, - I was wondering, good-hearted, often bald-headed and hungry, hungry Brahmin who acted as loyal friend and confident. - Yeah, so what they do, they use sarcasm and we're gonna critique society and keep kings in check. So, like a jester. - So very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very good. - Vadoo Shaka. Type in Vadoo Shaka, let's see what he looks like. - Yeah, Vadoo Shaka. - Let's see what he looks like. - One who provokes laughter. - So how, okay, if that's, so how do they make their way into the rodeo? - Oh, well, that's another game. - That's the whole, another. - Yeah, like, well, yeah. - Yeah, that doesn't look for anyone. - I would wonder if, you know, in Spain, 'cause they have like the, you know, that whole, with the Matador, like as a distraction, I wonder if it evolved from that? - Yeah, I mean, that's, - They're using clowns to kind of distract. - Look at, why did clowns make their way into rodeo? Because that's what they're designed to do. - Do you guys know that the clown is oftentimes the highest paid performer in the circus? - Yeah. - Yeah, they are, yeah, 'cause they really, they have to do all the transitions and then keep the crowd engaged. And so they're basically like the host. - They're multi-talented. So you guys know Jessica used to travel, Cirque du Soleil, and she's like, I asked her, like, who's the highest paid? - Well, look, I wonder if that's a similar with the rodeo too, because it says it's, they're supposed to be entertaining with comedy and skateboards, comedy, moving the show along. They like constantly have to be entertaining. - So yeah, 'cause she told me, 'cause I asked her, who makes the most in the circus? She goes, it's usually the clowns. I said, why? She's like, they need to know how to sing, they need to know how to make humor, they need to know the whole show. If something goes wrong in the show, they have to entertain the audience, 'cause circuses are performing all the time. - Right. - And there's always a mis-happiness. - Oh, and an animal gets out or something doesn't work. - That's what she told me. She was every show, something happens. And you gotta like, replace it with something else. And the clown is the person that fills in the space. And so she said, they make the most money. - Interesting. - I had no idea. I thought it was like the. - What are the highest paid clowns? - I don't know. - What's top salary? - Do you clown school too, like, is that true? - Is there really? - Yeah. - What's top salary for a clown? - The Barnum and Bailey, like, - What's their ballad, bro? - There was a kid that was in my son's - Do you think that's paid clown? - Who also went to like a Barnum and Bailey school for clowns. - So most of them make between 58 to 89,000 top independent earners make 114. In history, Swiss performer Grock, that was not interesting. - Grock. - Is that who we named off there? How much do they make? One of the highest paid individuals in America. - Interesting. - Wow. - Look at that. Back in the day, they made a lot. I don't think clowns are very valuable anymore. But they used to. - I mean, they still play the same role in rodeo and circus. - Yeah. - So I would think it would be. - Do you guys know why clowns are scary? 'Cause you know a lot of people are scared of clowns. - Yeah. - 'Cause you're Stephen King. - No. - No, they were scared of you before that. - I feel like he made them scary. - No. - No, it was a fear before that. - It was. - It was a common fear before. I actually read this once. There's a psychological, I told you guys about this. There's a psychological phenomenon when a person is smiling all the time and the rest of the future's on the edge. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Yeah, it sets and makes you feel kind of. - Well, remember when that movie came out a couple years ago that was called Smile, where we were done? - They had baseball games. - And the way they promoted it was they just had the fan. The random people would be standing in the fans and they would just be smiling and staring off like how creepy that was was brilliant. - You know what's another common fear? - Balloons. - You guys know that? That's a common fear people have. - Yeah, that was interesting. - Really? - Yeah, 'cause they're gonna pop at any moment. So people get anxiety. - The anticipation of it just kills fear. - Yeah, dude. - I didn't know that. Now remember when you brought up the shark thing because obviously people have always been afraid of sharks. - Sure. - But after jaws came out. - Oh yeah. - It was like a, now was the same thing happened with it. - It definitely made it had to. - Yeah, way less popped. - Because most people I know that say anything about clowns like they draw it back to it. Not because they had some childhood trauma thing or they had some childhood thing with those afraid of clowns. Like they knew they were aware of the movie it and that-- - Killer clowns from outer space. - Oh my god. - They're like, "Oh, the best movies all talk." - Yeah, no. So it says there that it heavily amplified a fear that already existed. So yeah, I told you. - Yeah. - Yeah, yeah. But what it did is it made the original clown costume something that people couldn't do anymore. So the original like McDonald's clown, you know, and the red and the-- - Yeah, they had to change. - Children's clown stopped dressing that way because that movie made that the scariest. Oh, that's what's that movie? That's what's his name? - That's it. - It's that Derab Zombie. No, in the middle there. That's a Rob Zombie movie, isn't it? Or is that the-- - The middle one? - The American horror. - Oh, you might-- - The left one is it. I know that. - The American horror story. - No, that's right. - Oh, you remember that, huh? - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Anyway. - Yeah. - I know, crazy. - Plans of creep. - All right, I'm gonna change the subject. So I gotta just rave about this peptide stack that I have, that I'm using from our partners at mphormons.com. The closed stack. - So you guys know it just 'cause on that, right? - So yeah, and I'm using it too. - Katrina, oh, you are too. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Oh. - So Katrina is too. - And she's using it and she loves it, yeah. - Dude, okay. - So you guys know the Wolverine stack. - Yeah. - Wolverine stack is Tb500 and BPC157, right? So they both accelerate healing, recovery, they're different mechanisms. One, BPC is produced in the gastric juices of the body. The other one is produced by the thymus gland. Both of them, it's different, but they're synergistic. And they call it the Wolverine stack 'cause people use it when they have an injury and the healing time is just, it's ridiculous. And we've all experienced this. Like I've had injuries when I tore my hamstring and Hawaii. It should have taken me months. I mean, it was a nice tear. You guys saw the bruising. - Yeah. - And it was weeks. It was like a few weeks later and I was working out, which is wild, okay, wild. I know you've experienced it with your injuries. - Multiple. - So Clow is like the Wolverine stack and then you add on even more. So with for skin. So the use it for skin, but it's like, you want a healing stack? Go on that. - What comes with that is GHKCU. - Right, so it's BPC157, TB500, GHKCU and KPB. - And KPB, that's why yeah. - So now you add two more peptides that accelerate healing and it's wild. And I'm experiencing this right now because I'm doing jujitsu and my joints are stiff and I'm getting used to the movements and all that stuff. And I wonder how they got this. - And it's crazy how fast I will recover from stuff. - I wonder how they got to this stack. Like to add all those. 'Cause people were already adding them. They were stacking them on their own, learning about them. And they just put it together. - Oh, you think so. - Oh, Doug, watch this, check this out. Now this isn't indicative of like what everybody should experience, but typing Clow before and after and click on images and watch people's faces. - Oh really? - Their skin and wrinkles and stuff like that. It's watch before and after. - To glue. - Oh yeah, oh yeah. You'll see before and afters of people on their skin. Yeah, look at that. - This stuff's crazy. It's like, you need both of you. - If you have the capability, you pair that with some red light. You do that, that's what Katrina does. Katrina takes it, she does her red light in front of her red light at night, sits in front of her face and-- - Look at that one, look at that before and after of that woman. - Damn. - Yep. - That looks fake, it's so good. - No, it's legit, dude. It is legit. I'm experiencing it with recovery, which is, I know when I have certain aches and pains that I've been working out forever, I know how long it would take for them to go away. It's like days versus what it would take like week or two. - Is this like the main thing that you stopped doing Jiu Jitsu, was it the pain of the joint? - No. - Or what was it? - Yeah, why did you stop Jiu Jitsu back in the days? - I had a realization. You ever have, I don't know if you guys are really honest. - You're getting too good. - No. - No, dude. - You ever have a realization where you look back and you're like, oh man, I never admitted that to myself. Let alone to anyone else. Why I did X, Y or Z, you ever do that? - Okay. - So that's what happened to me. So I was just today, you know, finishing Jiu Jitsu, I'm driving and I'm doing my, listen to a sermon, so it's like my spiritual time is typically post workout, which is good 'cause it actually helps me kind of, you know, see things differently. And I'm thinking back to when I used to Jiu Jitsu. And I used to love it, right? I did it for a long time, loved it. And I remember the thing that caused me to kind of want to stop and it all had to do with my ego, which is really embarrassing to say. So I competed in a big tournament in San Francisco, the United Gracie tournament. I think it was in 2006. And I took all valley tournament, something like that. (laughing) - Cool, dude. - A rough one. - That's what to say. - Anyway, I won that tournament. And I won it. Nobody scored a single point on me. They had promoted me to Purple Belt right after. And so I was feeling like, yeah, dude, I'm really good. - On top of the world. - Yeah, I'm great, right? I signed up for the US Open, which was not that long after. I want to say six or seven months later. - As a Purple Belt? - As a Purple Belt. - I already know it's coming in there. - Now I felt this bloated sense of self, because when I would roll with the dudes in the gym, who were Purple Belt or Brown Belt or even Black Belt, like I would do pretty good. And so I trained for this tournament. Like I trained smart, I did everything right, I signed up, I go to this tournament, and it's single elimination. And I go against this dude, who ended up being this top fighter later on, trying to make myself feel better. - Yeah. - But he beat me in less than a minute. Like we hit the ground, he moved a particular way, caught me off guard, caught me in an armlock, lost out. That's it, I'm out of the tournament. And I felt so embarrassed. - Yeah dude, in fact, you stopped it or that? - Hold on, I had family members that were coming to watch. They didn't even get to see you, they got there a little late. - Oh God, that's so cool. - So they showed up, and I'm there, and they're like, hey what's going on? I'm like, I'm already out. - I'm out. - You drove all this way. So I finished that, huge blow to the ego. And then I kept training a little bit, but I think it was that dude, and there was that. - Is it shortly after that you quit? - It was shortly after that. - Wow. started to quit and I never really admitted it to myself. - You never shared that stuff. - I never admitted it to myself, let alone tell anybody else, because I don't wanna admit to myself a quitter. - So what, so you can go up and-- - So you didn't admit to yourself, what was the lie you told yourself? - The lie I told me, and there's partial truth to this. - There usually is. - There's partial truth to this, which is, that would be a good lie if it wasn't. - That I was building my business and the times that the classes were running, where times I could fill with clients. And so, and that's the thing with you, Jitz, you gotta show up and do a class where I live, that could lift at any time. So I just got back into lifting and kind of abandoned Jitzu. But as I was looking back, I'm like, if I won that tournament, for sure I wouldn't have stopped. - He's still be good. - Yeah, what about if you even lost, but you lost like closer, like it was a better match, you think that-- - I got my ass kicked so hard. - That's what I mean, so quick. - You think like obviously if you win it, that changes that based off of that. - I don't know dude, I think it's-- - It probably, but to be that embarrassed. - Right, right, to get whooped, humbled. - Which is, you know, logically, - You know. - like this is fight sports. - That's what battle happened. - Yeah, that's what happened. - Well, especially when you just got elevated to that next level and you go outside of your little ecosystem of your gym, who you're, by the way, too, that I would think, I don't know, 'cause I don't have done this. But I would imagine when you roll, even if they're brown balls of balls, with the same guys all the time, you start to learn their techniques. - 100%. - And there's a little bit of a 100%. - A little bit of a no what they're gonna do. - Yeah, so going and meeting a purple belt, but a really good purple belt, you know who would never roll with before. - And you know who was in my pool, who I would have gone against, who I don't know if he got first or second. - Was it SWIC days? - No. - Was it. - Mike wasn't competing, but you know who was in my pool, Luke Rockhold. - Oh really? - Oh really? - Yeah, Rockhold was jujitsu. - So he did jujitsu up around here. - Yeah, so he did jujitsu a Claudio in Santa Cruz. - Yeah. - And he was a purple belt when I was a purple belt. And he was in the pool. So I would have had to gone against him anyway. So I'm sure he would be here. - I'd say he could go around here. - He's a bat, I mean the guys, - Yeah, of course. - But dude, I think it's 'cause I got ego destroyed. - Interesting. - And I think that really demoralized me. And I didn't want to admit it to myself, 'cause he wants to admit to himself they're a quitter because their ego got bruised, nobody. Not me. So yeah, I was thinking about that in the car and I called my wife, I'm like, "Hey, you wanna know why I quit jujitsu?" And she's like, "Wow, I told her." And she's like, "What? "Like, yeah dude." - Interesting. - I know. - I know. - Which is good to know now, because you know, I'm gonna get my ego bruised again. - Yeah. - But. - That happens. - And I'm gonna get bruised when you go lift, wait for yourself. - I'm trying to think of a good story. - You're in your own world. - You're in your own world dude. - Yeah. - We all have to have a pretty good story like that. - Oh, yeah. - I've just gotta get some of my things where I stopped doing something kind of lie to myself about why. - It's a really interesting thought. - Yeah. - That's really crazy. - I have been football for me for sure. - Oh yeah. - Which is, you know, the worst, 'cause that was like my best sport. (laughing) And I was like, I wasn't gonna play another year. I figured I had a red shirt year. So I could play, you know, a fifth year. I thought I had burned it up 'cause I was at a different school and transferred. And he's like, and so I was like, I went through the whole process of like, this is my last season. I like put everything out there for that last season. And we like, you know, made a bowl game. And like, I kind of did the thing that I was like gonna do. And, you know, and I got emotional. And I was just like, you know, at the end, it's like, well, it's the end. This is like, I have a new identity now. And I kind of had that sort of like, whole process happen then. And then the coach came back to me and was like, listen, you're still eligible. And I was like, yeah. Really? Just threw me so off. I had like the worst year ever, the last year, my fifth year. I like was so checked out. Like my, yeah, my mind wasn't into like playing music. And like I had already started to kind of transition and move on to the point where like in practice, like I was kind of like just going through the drills and everything, but like I wasn't learning, we had a new defensive coordinator that came in. And he was just like guns blazing. Like you have to learn the system. Like this is my, I took it, he took it from some like successful college that he was at. And like, you know, everybody has to memorize these specifically. And I just, you know, and I was just relying on my talent at that point and like, you know, showing up. But I wasn't like, and so he started to pick up that I wasn't memorizing all the plays. And he's getting pissed off with me. We were button heads. I sat the bench like the second half of the season. - Oh wow. - They've never done that in football. I've never watched him as sidelines and it killed me. - Oh wow. - And I was like, I'm done. - After that. - Yeah. - So I have a similar story. You just sparked that for me. So my senior year, my senior year of high school, and I told the story on the podcast, but the way I tell the story is that I wanted to work and make money, which is partially true. You know, like I, if I wanted, I had girlfriend, I had a car and if I wanted these things, I had to pay for them. So I needed to work and work before school. But the deeper truth is that my junior year, I rode the bench and it just get crushed. It crushed me. And I was just like, I'm not gonna go my senior year and potentially do that. Had I played like crazy and had it felt like I had a shot to be a starter and playing my senior year, I probably would have played. Even I would have found a way out work wise. I would have worked around it or something like that to make it all work. But because that crushed me so much my junior year, that I'm like, there's no way I wanna go another year like that that I said, "Effet, I'm just gonna work and do that." And so the story I tell is always, I need to make money, I need to work, it's just partially true. But probably deep down, it was more, my ego was bruised that I didn't get to, I didn't play. And I felt I was, all my peers thought I was, my buddies, and coach didn't think so. And so yeah, that was a-- - Well, it's funny, because of your story of like, people showing up and you're not. - Oh, yeah. - That was the same. I had like cousins and people flying in and they were like, "Expecting me to play." I didn't even play. I'm like, and I'm begging the coach put me, he's like, "No." And it wouldn't put me in, you know, all my family was there and all of this is, it's never happened to me before I was sox. - Dude, that sucks so bad. - It's funny, because I was talking to Jessica about like competing at some point potentially. I don't think I will, but you know, I just kind of playing with the idea. And she's like, "Oh, I'd love to come watch you." And I'm like, "I don't think I'd want you to watch me." Or the kids, because if I lost in front of my kids, I think my ego, I don't know if I could survive, that kind of a hit, you know, but what a terrible lesson would I be teaching my kids? - I know, you know? It's like one of those things that you just got to, you got to wrestle with them. - Yeah, you're good. - You guys got to watch this, 'cause you brought this up. I brought it up to, I think, the other day. I told my wife, I'm like, "If you saw me lose to a man in a fight, you would be so turned off." There's no way you would think I'm attractive. I forgot my ass key. - I know. - It's got to be the worst thing. - The flip side is my win, like I'm hot. - Yeah. - But if I lose, you're like this, that's a big hit. But if some dude like Dominance - It's me, it kicks my ass in between. - We're going home and I'm doing the dishes. (laughing) You're definitely not turned off by me. - You guys, you, I saw, I, uh, I've never been a big tennis watcher. And I'm watching the documentary on "Roff and Adol" and it's really good. And his story is crazy. And his, his rise and fall and his injuries and his comeback at like 38 years old, trying to do it. And he's got a kid and all he wants to do, I mean, I think he's won over 20 grand slams plus in his career. So he's like one of the winningest players. - Well, it's hard. - Yeah, arguably one of the best of all time. But then now 38, trying to come back, do it, has a son, wants his kid to see him raise a trophy and work into these injuries and you know, get plays one that gets hurt, play, that's like, so watching that and I'm not away through it. So I'm still going, it's really good. And it reminds me of a lot of what will ego and all the relationship with it and everything like that. - Nobody talks enough about what it's like, 'cause you know, you see someone competed at high level when you think, oh, good for you. Nobody talks about what it's like for people when they reach a really high level and then they have to fall from that. - Yeah. - You know, sports is a good example 'cause especially with intense sports, you get older. I don't care how good you are. You're just gonna be too old to compete against people who are younger than you. What a psychological torture that is. Like when you're the king, you're the best in the world, which is gonna be a short period of time. You're not gonna be the best of war for 20 years. It's gonna be a short period of time. And then you go from that to, I'm not anymore. What a cycle, what a mind game. That's why I really do think I feel like, you know, when Tyson goes back into the ring now, and you're just like, oh, he's hurt. - Yeah. - Like he is a Conor McGregor. He's like, oh, just get that stomach ache 'cause I know how they feel, dude. Like on a very small level obviously, not that high, but yeah, it's like, dude, oh, it's like, well, you're not king of the world right now. - Arthur Brooks talks about that. - Well, what's great, you're comparing to sports, but I actually think this is, this is the thing that not a lot of people talk about. If you're great at anything. - Anything, yeah. - Anything. The great, some of our greatest CEOs in business, how tortured they are. Some of our greatest minds in philosophy and whatever like that. The wealthiest of people, like all these, you get so great, you build your entire identity around that, and then you realize like when there's more other things, and you want to try and pivot, you're like, whole world comes apart because you invested so much in becoming-- - That's who you were. - Who are you now? This is one of the reasons, not the only reason, but one of the reasons why young celebrities, children, celebrities don't do well, because they're so famous and so popular, and they're kids and they're cute, and they get older, and nobody likes them like they used to. That is devastating. It's hard for an adult. You imagine a kid who grows up with that kind of attention and glory, and then suddenly it's gone. - Yeah. - Oh, that's gonna destroy you. - Yeah. Yeah, that's right. So I think it transcends sports. I think sports sports is such an easy example. Yeah, it's an easy one. But I mean, I've seen this in like so many different disciplines. It's just like it's not just that. It's like you you wrap your identity up in this whatever this thing. I mean, intellects. You see it when you see it on whenever and that in right away, we were so interesting how we we are the way we're made up to almost admire these outliers, right? We look up and when we put them on these pedestals, regardless of what category it is, what name the thing you're into musicians, all of it, right? And it's like, but in but you have no idea the sacrifice they've made, the tor the inner torture they have, the future they have ahead of them when they are no longer playing the music or playing the sport or they've made all the money and it doesn't matter anymore. They've done all the talks, wrote all the books, named the thing. And then like then life hits them. It's like no one talks about that side of it. We make all the documentaries about the the cool part of it. You know what I'm saying? And highlight it. We all chase it and we have all so many people that are the inviate and wanted. It's like that you wouldn't. Are there books talks about this loosely? I forget whether the book is called. It's one of more recent books, but he talks about like the split that happens after retirement. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're like half the I don't know what percentage, but large percentage people that are health declines, quality life declines. And then some of them have this improvement in quality life. And the difference is that people who do well go from doing to teaching. Yeah. So like let's say you're in a sport and you achieve a certain level of success where you're doing really good. And then you get older and you don't necessarily have like you could coach other people. And then you'll find a similar appreciation. Sometimes more. It's like what's that rock? Is it Rocky five where he trains Tommy gun? It's like one of the world. Oh, you could tie this into a rock. He's a lot less than Rocky. So many good lessons. I remember he's I was about to connect to Carl Jung because I call I send a thing to the boys the other day and Carl Jung. It makes me want to read the whole book. But I had this excerpt from it that I sent to the guys about your back half your first front 40 versus your back 40 of life. And and and basically the message I'm sending to our young guys that it just gets better from here. Like 40 on is so much better than 40 dead to death is so much better than zero to 40. And so you have so much more of life. And he and Carl Jung's point is that the first 40 years is all education, experimental learning about yourself, learning about life. It's like so much of that. And there's a lot of pain and growth that comes in there. And the back 40 is the enjoyment piece of that and learning how to enjoy that which ties into other books. Part of learning how to do that is passing that on and teaching and you know different a different level with the back of the back. It's so fun to have trainers work for us because we get to train them. We get to work with them on how to be better coaches and I swear I said this before. I have never had a group of trainers get so good so quickly. A lot of that is leadership. We have incredible leadership here. But also the tools that we have to teach them. Yeah. We didn't didn't exist when we were when we were training people. That now we have to where they can review calls and they can actually see in real time and afterwards what's happening. But they're so good. But it's so rewarding to coach these coaches on being good coaches and then to hear the feedback and see what's going on. I was literally just thinking about this yesterday. I was doing over like quarterly stuff and just reviewing the business things and I'm like man, it's feel so blessed that we got to spend the first 10 years of building this focused around helping others and like everybody like as far as like that listen to the podcast and that by maps programs and I feel like this we're making this transition now and it's so much more focused on the coaches that are also still impacting all those people but it's it's a different shift. And what's cool you know selfishly feels even more impactful because we can see the coaches where when we are on here and we talk even though we know we get to hear every once in a while or we did live events we get a little bits of feedback where we have all these coaches in here now like every day every day we're hearing scene stories where we're going to pop into zoom calls and say hi to the clients that they're impacting and working with and so what a cool rewarding transition that this thing has gone into. I've had more I we've had fun this whole time but I have even more fun now than I ever did before which is why I mean I've never been able to say that I've never been able to say that you know over a decade into doing something that I love it more than I did day one that's that's wild that never happened I mean yeah it was always getting boring. I know I was looking for something else that are taking you know get vested in but yeah it's really a taking the song. Element can help prevent things like headaches muscle crops fatigue sleeplessness and other common symptoms of electrolyte deficiency look when you sweat the primary electrolyte that you lose is sodium athletes can lose believe it or not up to seven grams of day when your sodium is not replaced you feel like crap here's a deal. 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Our first question is from cell's lab what is optimal body fat percentage and muscle mass for women how do you know when to stop when it's not for aesthetics so there's there's two ways to look at this one of them is backwards and the other way is the right way to look at this so the backwards way is to constantly test your body fat percentage and muscle mass and try to hit some kind of target that's the backwards way the right way to do it is to do the right things and allow your body to fall where it's going to fall right the reason why I'm saying that is because I can give a range look I can give a range right now and say for most women a healthy body fat percentage with good hormones and goodliness and all this stuff and fitness probably to be somewhere in the low 20s body fat between 20 to let's say 25 26 percent body fat give or take but there's a wide variance there yes and I think if a woman was eating whole natural foods getting good sleep she was exercising appropriately and she was doing that for long enough period time her body will fall to where it's supposed to be and that's the ideal place that she needs to be what happens when you do this backwards is I start chasing a body fat percentage and I'm like well I'm supposed to be I know they said low 20s I'm at 24 maybe it should be 20 and you start pressing into that nothing necessarily wrong with that but then you start doing things that aren't necessarily better for consistency and longevity so I think where you fall is is going to be a result of of how you get there and you should focus on how you get there rather than the result in other words building healthy behaviors around nutrition and exercise and movements and you should kind of naturally fall there and I agree with that because I've seen probably like the good examples a lot in from 18 to 24 for women I've seen I've seen some women be able to hold 18 percent naturally just eating good exercising balance I've seen this nice 28 25 and I've and then all the way up into probably the mid 20s and that could look very different on every body type and so going for a look or a body fat percentage because we say this is a good place is a really tough thing to answer somebody a much better approach is eat whole foods hit your protein targets strain train three times a week make an effort to get eight to 10,000 steps a day make sure you do things that you love to do and enjoy have balance in your relationship I think and then guess see where you fall and do that consistent in the health marker yeah and if you're nor star and if you do that consistently because that's the other thing is if you have these swings of I do that for a while but then I eat like crap and I don't do these things then it's like it's hard and then be that question comes up where it's like really try and just be consistent about that and watch where you're ready to yeah and see where it puts you and that's probably a good healthy place next question is from Nora Tulip Priv how do you increase the maintenance calories without gaining too much fat while simultaneously cutting down cardio yeah by building muscle so you increase your calories you cut down cardio you make strength the focus the extra calories go to muscle yeah and so you don't gain too much body fat now do you want to be clear some people need to gain body fat so if this is a woman who's asking and she's walking around a 15% body fat we're probably going to need to increase your body fat percentage to make you healthier and give you better performance not a lot but you probably need to get yourself up to closer to 20 but that being said it's about building the muscle so if you here's what often happens oftentimes I get someone like this they're afraid of increasing their calories I do what they're saying we cut down their cardio because they're doing too much of it I bump their calories focus on strength and they're blown away by how little or no body fat they gain they're absolutely but I can't believe I'm not gaining any body fat it means 800 more calories okay but what else are you noticing well I'm way stronger I'm lifting more weight I did gain a couple pounds on the scale but seems to be all muscle so it's really about aiming it towards muscle by sending the right signal training appropriately and then that's where those calories end up going it maybe interested to hear what cutting down cardio is where you're coming from because this this You could also be challenging too if you, because somebody could say something like this to me and their cardio is training for a marathon every week and their cutting down is still too much. Yeah, still too much and they're trying to reverse diet and build muscle. This can be difficult. If you're still sending a louder signal of cardio than you are of building muscle, this could be a challenge for you to build muscle. And so I'd be interested to hear exactly where that's at. Normally what I like to do is whatever, because normally people are doing three to five hours of cardio a week, I like to switch that immediately from cardio to walking and focus on building muscle. And walking is a great form of a facility for muscle building. And it's not such a drastic cut in movement and calorie burn that they're going to see this massive waking. Especially if we shift over to strength training and we do a small increase in calories, then most of those extra calories will get partitioned over building muscle. Metabolism will speed up and we shouldn't see any real fat gain over the court. If we look at it over a 30 or 60 day window, it'll be a nice transition, but still trying to maintain some cardio because I don't want to put fat on. Sometimes can send a conflicting signal of what we're trying to do. We're trying to reverse diet, we're trying to build muscle, but you're still hanging on to the cardio, you know, a little bit and a little bit to you is half of what you're doing before, but still 10, 15 years away. But what you were doing before was marathon training, which is still particularly so I'd want to know more to be even more precise on what I'd prescribe here. Next question is from Matthew with faith. What movement should I concentrate on to help fix my forward rolled shoulders? So I'll give you the exercise, but I'm going to be just to be clear, you could do what I'm about to say in a way that will make your forward shoulders worse. So typically it's rows, typically it's all rows or row variations. Now here's the key. The key is that you pull your shoulder blades back and down while you do the row. So I can pull and do a row with forward shoulder and just use my lats and actually make my forward shoulder worse. The key again, you got to bring, if you look at your shoulder blades, they need to come back and down and that's what corrects or strengthens that kind of tall posture look was what we're trying to strengthen are the rhomboids in mid to lower trapezius muscles, which are the ones that bring the shoulder blades back and down. If I don't do that, I can pull with my lats. I can pull a lot of weight with my lats, but it's not going to fix the issue that we're talking about here. I love doing just just having weights in my hands and like then creating that posture position you're describing like a farmer walk, like a farmer walk. But even before walking is just holding isometrically holding the weights, setting them down is even a primer just to kind of like spark that connection there. So to your point is if you're just doing rows and you're not really conscious of what's happening with your shoulders as you're rowing, we could be reinforcing that bad pattern. But I like to start with that and then I do like to incorporate quite a bit of farmer walks with really good upright postural positioning. I would prescribe prone cobras and band pull parts almost daily to get them to get that scapular articulation down. And we're not like we're not going to be breaking down anything that I can't do so that they can do it daily and practicing that and then doing what both of you are saying as far as your strength building exercises in your routines. Because depending on how bad the forward shoulders and so on that, if you just go right to a movement like rows to your point, it's been many clients before I've seen they're rowing with their arms and they're not articulate. They're actually literally physically move their shoulders up. And so and that'll just exacerbate the problem, especially if they get strong doing it that way. And so doing good priming stuff like prone cobras, band pull apart stuff on a daily basis frequently if you can. And then when you get to the strength building type stuff, doing those farmer walks where you really articulate this capula back, doing the seated rows and bent over rows is going to be the key to this for sure. Next question is from more life, JoJo, what was an ethical situation you faced as a trainer and how did you handle it? What do you think are common ethical situations, trainers encounter? So there's the obvious stereotype where the trainer has a romantic relationship with their client. And we don't need to go there because they think everybody's like, yeah, don't do that. So that's obvious. So bang your client. But I'm going to speak to a less obvious one that I guarantee you some trainers are going to listen to this and disagree with me. But I'm going to just I'm going to sell it. Okay, because this is 100% true. You have to all and I made this mistake many times. You have to always maintain a separation, a professional separation between your clients. And this is why it's so difficult. When you train people for 10 years, when you see them twice a week for 10 years, you know them. They know you. And it's very difficult. That professional line, it's so easy to blur it because you've known this person for a decade or even if it's just a year or two years and you want to hang out with them and you want to do things outside of the gym and you want to go on trips with them and you want to and you end up having a relationship that's both professional but then also not professional. And I'm going to say this right now, it will hamper your effectiveness as a trainer if you blur that line. When this person starts to see you outside of this kind of professional relationship, like we're just buddies, your effectiveness actually starts to drop. You'll still maintain your friendship with them, but your effectiveness starts to drop. So how do you maintain that? Well, and I had no problem with knowing my clients families and my clients knowing my families, but it would happen with professional events. I'd have events at my gym. I'd invite my family. They'd meet my kids and stuff like that. But I didn't go travel with my clients and I had many clients who I knew very well, like, hey, let's go to Vegas together. Let's go to the Cancun together or whatever. And I'd turn it down because I had too many experiences where the line would get blurred and then either the client felt weird asking them for money if they started to become more flaky because we're buddies or it was harder for me to influence them as their coach and trainer because they didn't view me so much as that and more as their friend. I think that's an important one to talk about because it's so easy to kind of blur that line. So two cone of mind to me right away related mainly to financial. So I was faced with a major ethical situation when I was scaling the boot camps and that weighed on me a lot because it was at a period of time when we were transitioning before mind pump. I was moving out of cannabis and so coming from a time of making a lot of money and being very successful in the cannabis space, moving out of that before my impump was the least amount of money I was probably making over the last almost 25 years of my life. And during that time I was scaling these boot camps and they were growing and doing well. And I was also and I tell a story about this is what made us all connect was I was aware of what would be best serving of those people what they needed. So what they wanted versus what they needed? And I wrestled that's a very common with the trainer. I wrestled with this because you know and the lie I told myself was they love it and they did love it. It's better than nothing. They love me. They high five in and this is what they wanted and they they I didn't have to close anyone. They were signing up every month and you know we built this great community and so I told myself all the other positive things that they got from it. But deep down inside I knew I wasn't really physically helping them and most of them were you know these most of these clients were 40, 50, 60 years old and there was other things that they should be doing that I wasn't providing in a boot camp setting. And I wrestled and I needed the money. So I wrestled with that quite a bit. Ultimately I walked away from it. Ultimately I shut them down and I stopped doing them. I've told the story that probably the guilt from that I continued to do that stuff for free for mobility classes for a long time of those people. So that was the first one that comes to mind and then the other one was around similar time. Probably why it was ethical and that I struggled with it was because I knew I needed the finances. But I knew what was right and what was wrong. When I was in competing which was beginning of my pump, my pump hadn't taken off yet. We're doing it but we're not paying ourselves yet. It's growing. There's a lot of positive inside but I'm also still having to keep all my finances and everything going. And I was competing. I got known really quick and a lot of people wanted me to coach them. And so I was like, wasn't even trying to build a coaching business and I was building a coaching business. And it was scaling pretty quick and I was doing well. And I was faced with a lot of bikini competitors who wanted me to coach them. And when they would fill out the application, I'd have the original Zoom call and talk to them and hear where they were at metabolically and stuff like that. And they'd tell me, I want you to coach me and there's this show. And I would be like, yeah, no, I can't. I can't do it. It's unhealthy for you to do that. I would want to train you for six months to a year to build you up before we do that. And I know I lost a good amount of business. because I know a lot of those girls went off and I know who they hired. And they went and got somebody else took their money and said, "Sure, I'll throw you on an hour card "you every day and start your body for the next 12 weeks "to let you do this show." So those two times, yeah, I was faced with that. And probably why, 'cause I can't think of other ones that come to me why I was challenging was 'cause it was the period of time of my life when I could use the money. Yeah, I could use the money, but I knew what was right and still walked away from me. Yeah, that's kind of, I mean, it's similar to the only one I could kind of think it was like besides, you know, the stuff that's like they're trying to hang out too much. Of course, you get really close with your clients, but yeah, we used to be next to this bariatric treatment kind of place where like doctors would be described, there's really, really low calorie and then they'd give them shakes. Oh yeah. They'd make up for that. And I just, I was so uncomfortable with, somebody would come in with that and then they wanted to be able to get the treatment so they had to lose like 20 pounds or 50 pounds or whatever it was like quickly. Or they had to gain it to qualify. Or they had to gain it. Yeah, so there was one or the other. And like, so I had both situations and like I just didn't, I ethically, I just was like, I can't, like they would want me to basically like, you know, have the most intense, almost circuit training and they would like, they hate that I was putting them through actual strength training and like really trying to build them up and like, you know, I was, I was definitely challenging them with their, with their nutrition. And so it was one of those, I actually let a couple of those clients leave and I just, I couldn't do it 'cause I just was like, this is just not, like you're gonna have to find somebody else to do. This is not good for you. Like I actually had one lady actually pass out and I was like, I asked her, how many, like how much are you eating and like we went into it? And it just, all these red flags kind of went off for me and I was like, I'm done. You just reminded me of a specific one I had. I trained a young lady for the Miss San Jose pageant and a trainer because she was dating someone close to me. I won't say who it was, but someone I knew. So, so they were like, hey, you know, trainer and I was, sure. So I trained her and she won. So she gets first place. Next thing you know, everybody's like, how did you look so good? - All these other moms come here. - And so I got, yeah, so I had all these inquiries from these pageant competitors and their moms. - Yeah. - They trained their daughters and it did not feel right at all. I mean, I told the story before, but I remember I was at that Miss San Jose and had all these people coming up to, oh, I want to talk to you afterwards and she looks so good. Let me see what's going on. And I had this one mom come up to me with her daughter who was probably 15 and she's like, hey, I'm interested in you training my daughter and this and that getting her ready. And she goes, but can you please explain to her how eating too many apples can also make you fat. And this is a 15 year old girl and the mom is saying that and I looked at her and I looked at her daughter and I said, that's not what's going to make you fat. And she's like, what, but it's calories, right? Is it excess calories? I said, yeah, that's the wrong information. And I was like, right then and there, I'm like, I'm not training any of these kids and any of these because this is going to be, all I'm going to do is get into battles with the parents and I'm only going to encourage these girls to not be in pageants. That whole space was just, - Oh yeah. - It was horrible. - We all worked at that San Jose gym and the Justin's talking about the clinic across - Yep, I saw that too. - And so I actually had clients that because they can get insurance to cover that. They have to be a certain way. - You're not obese enough. - They would want to hire me to gain weight. - To gain weight. - So they'd eat like crap. - And so yeah. - Crazy. - Yeah, I was like, I can't do that too. Like they would come to me and they'd be like, I need to get put on like 25 pounds of body fat in order to qualify for the insurance to pay for this surgery. And I already didn't, it was not a fan of that surgery anyways. Now, if it's a life or death situation for somebody understandable, like this person's 400 pounds doing the gastric, like it is what it is to save a life. But I think I totally was against that as a method of losing weight. - And you're turning down money. - Yeah. - You're like really into pay. - Yeah, I know I do the same thing. - Yep, yeah, crazy. Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. It's mind-punt-media. - Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbundle at mindpumpmedia.com. The RGB Superbundle includes maps and a ballad, maps for performance and maps aesthetic, nine months of phased, expert exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout blueprints in over 200 videos, the RGB Superbundle is like having Sal Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Superbundle has a full 30-day money bag guarantee, and you can get it now, plus other valuable free resources at mindpumpmedia.com. If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five-star rating and review on iTunes, and by introducing mindpump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support, and until next time, this is Mindpump.