144: How to Overcome Fear & Find Your Calling | Tama Kieves Transformation Story

Your life is actually always working in your favor. There's always a movement towards expansion. There's always a movement towards grace, but we're not seeing it. If you're this successful doing what you don't love, what could you do with what you love? That was my wake-up call and I realized I get one life as far as I know. What if I listen to the inner voice of love, of excitement, of desire, rather than fear? By listening to the Coherence Code podcast, you agree to not use this podcast as medical advice to treat any medical condition, either in yourself or others. Consult your own physician or healthcare provider for any medical issues that you may be having. This entire disclaimer also applies to any guests or contributors to the podcast. Welcome to the Coherence Code podcast, where we explore how the mind and body work together. So you can move from stress and inner conflict to clarity, calm, and alignment. My name is Lauren Brown. I'm a Doctor of Traditional Chinese Medicine and a Clinical at the Therapist. And through my work, I've seen that healing happens when we remove what gets in the way and allow the body and the nervous system to do what they're designed to do to heal. Welcome to the Coherence Code podcast. I want to welcome Tama Keves to our podcast today. I just completed reading or actually as you guys know, listening, listening to her book, learning to trust yourself, breaking through the blocks that hold you back. And after reading this book and listening to this book, I wanted to have these conversations with Tama and share her with you guys because she had a wake up call. We're going to learn she's a Harvard Law School grad. Now she's a coach and author. And I know from the people I see my practice, the people that talk to me via social media, there's a lot of really educated people, people that got some really good jobs going on, but they feel empty inside and they're struggling. And I always like to have guests that can play same zes like I get you and share tools and process. That's the key. Tama, you don't know me yet either. But before I did Chinese medicine and clinical diagnosis, I have a bachelor's science of math and I'm a charter to count as well. Right. So I like the left brain and right brain integration. So I'm a fan of, you know, are there simple and steps and processes to get me into this being this that I'm learning about from your book. And so other things I liked about Tama that I learned about. I think I'm a Star Trek fan. I think she was into Star Trek as well. We'll find out which which one she was. She's written several books, course, America's taught about course, America's. So there's a lot of things that are going on in Tama's world that also I've been exposed to. And so I thought she'd be perfect guest for us. So let me introduce officially formally Tama keys. So she's, she has an honors graduate of Harvard Law School, but she left her law practice to write and help others live and breathe their most meaningful self expression. She is the best selling author of five books, including her newest brown graping book, learning to trust yourself, breaking through the blocks that hold you back. She's been featured in US today and on Oprah media. And she is a sought after TEDx speaker and visionary career success coach because a lot of those people are listening. You guys are, you know, you're the influencers of the world to make policy change and you are running big businesses or high have a high or important position in these jobs. So this work is also to help you reach your business potential, your success as well. She's helped thousands, thousands worldwide to discover and thrive in the life, calling and work of their dreams. And as I mentioned earlier, she's also taught course miracles for years. And she's known for her smart spit fire spirituality, electric humor and the big possibilities she brings out and others. So thank you very much, Tama for joining me today. I am honored and you've got the full background there. My God. Yeah, these are a good intention. You're not allowed to have any more career. Yeah, they could intentions. These are like one day I'll read these. Some of them have read many didn't read many times. Listen, you've written, speaking of books, you've written five. Now we're going to talk a lot about learning to trust yourself. But I've written one. I'm in the process of my second. These are no easy task. And so I got to give a shout out to all five books. If I may, I just want to list them out. Just people know because you're an author and these took time to write. They're your babies. I don't want to just treat one baby with all the pencil. I want all your children to receive the attention. These are. So I don't know what order they are, but I'm just going to share with you this time. I dance, creating the work you love. And there's a really cool quote from Mary Ann Wilson on this. A wonderful guidebook for anyone who has ever felt this can't be all there is. She has another book called Inspired and Unstoppable, widely succeeding in your life's work. And Jack can feel many of you have heard of him. If you want to stay on fire as you do your greatest work in the world, read this book now. Number three, a year without fear. Or thriving through uncertainty. And then today learning to trust yourself. Or I should say her latest or fifth book learning to trust yourself breaking through the blocks that hold you back. So thank you for writing those books. Thank you for acknowledging them. So. And they've helped many, many people. Thank God. Thank God. They helped you. Yes. Many people. And I was inspired by listening to Trust Yourself. I want to know your story more because you know, I used to practice in a county and I left for Chinese medicine. You're a Harvard Law degree. Mm hmm. Curious. Did you practice? Are you one of those people where you did everything your parents told you to do you nailed it. And then your empty inside. So tell us tell us your story because I'm really curious. What were you doing? And what would you basically be telling your younger self to do? I think I think a lot of our stories are wake up calls begin a little earlier that things that happened earlier in our lives. So when I was young, when I was, I don't remember like 14 or whatever, I dreamed of being a writer. That was my dream. I read Catcher in the Ryan High School and I fell in love with it. But I grew up in Brooklyn, New York and my family's orthodox Jewish. And so if you came home and you said, I want to be a writer. I was just a teacher. Nobody said, Mazal Tav. Right. So my mother said, you're going to write. You're going to write. You're going to stop. And that was basically the go for your dreams talk. So I ignored my dreams. I ignored everything I wanted to do. I ignored those instincts and I went off to law school. I went to Harvard Law School. And then I was on partnership track at a major law firm. And I think you mentioned this before because a lot of us have gone through this. You're succeeding in somebody else's way. Right. You're succeeding in what the society says is the cultural acceptable definition of success. But I felt empty and I felt scared. I felt really scared because I kept thinking this can't be all there is. This can't be it. I don't know what I'm doing with my life. I'm succeeding. I have what people tell me success. I'm feeling empty and I'm feeling like I don't even want to be here anymore. It was really a scary time. And thank God a friend at the time said something amazing. He said, think about it. If you've been this successful doing something you don't even love, what could you do with what you love? Oh, I love that. Isn't that a great quote? I got to hear that again. And our listeners, it's worth repeating. Right. And so because many of us are in work like that or in lives like that. Right. And so that was my wake up call. And I realized I get one life as far as I know. I want to see where this goes. So for me, that was my wake up call to say, what if I listen to an inner voice in me? But this time, what if I listen to the inner voice of love, of excitement, of desire rather than fear? Right. Rather than fear, fear, fear. And I think a lot of us, by the way, we don't think of it as fear. We think of it as being realistic. Well, this is what you can have. This is realistic. This is good judgment. This is what smart people do. Right. And here's what smart people really do. They listen to their souls, their hearts, their genius, and they open up. So that was the beginning of my story and finding this path. Well, so at 14, you wanted to be a writer. Yeah. Based on your family upbringing, you know, you're going to starve to death. They're reminding me when I, you know, when I did the county, my family was like, you know, if you really want to be successful, be a doctor. If you love that smart, maybe a lawyer. And if you're simple in account. So I did that. So just let you know what I switched from the county to Chinese medicine. And I said, it did it go well with the household when I was a young, young fellow, but it's all worked out well. What happened though after that? So you, because you didn't listen to that, that the intuition, we're going to learn about listening to that. And what is this voice? Yes. I want to unpack that more. But some people have to break down before they break through. Kind of like what we're seeing in the world today. A breakdown. Yes. Waiting for the breakthrough. Your book, my, my sense is, don't wait for the breakthrough. You become the breakthrough. And then you'll get to experience it and see it in the external world. But I'm just curious more about if you want to share what. Yeah. What. You're at Harbour, you're at Harbour, you're at Harbour, you're in the law firm. - Yeah, and it was a total meltdown. And a lot of times people, especially in the personal growth realm, people here, go for your dreams, go for your passion, and everything works out, right? And so that's absolutely true. I deeply believe that, but I don't believe it in the way that sometimes people are assuming it, right? And so to your point, which I think is excellent, is that we do break down before we break through. That's part of the process. That break down is essential, because I had to unlearn all of these crazy beliefs I had about what you could have in life, what you can't have in life, what's gonna work, what's not gonna work. So I naively thought, oh, I'm gonna leave law, and I'm gonna be a writer. And I knew as an attorney, I knew how to bill hours, every six minute increments, I'm billing hours, right? And so I thought, I know how to be productive, I'll just do this, I'll just nail this, right? But creativity and really opening up to something spiritual, inspired, alive, precious, fresh, it is not linear, it is not force, it is not productivity, it is really a path of opening and deepening and becoming aware. And it's a path of really starting to become aware and listen to the choices you're making every single day. People think they're listening to their inner voice, but a lot of times they may be listening like I said to fear, they're listening to what they think they should do, what they're supposed to do, what's smart to do. And I want you to listen to a voice that's inside you, that is only inside you, that is connected to something higher, the universe, God, love, whatever you wanna call it, light, but we have capacities like you wouldn't believe, right? And so, but to answer your question, I don't think any of our paths just happen instantaneously. For me, it was following bread crumbs. It was just following this breadcrumb, which led to that breadcrumb, which led to that breadcrumb, right? But the biggest amount of work wasn't even what I did. It was the facing, like you said, the breakdown, the facing, the fears that came up, facing the fears of am I crazy? Who am I to think I can do this? What do you think you're the messiah now? You know, you think you're just gonna walk off and create things and just like all the voices inside to learn how to manage your own interstate is everything. And that's kind of why I wrote, learning to trust yourself. - And that interstate, 'cause we have this inter-diolog, and you talked about trust yourself, but that inter-diolog sometimes is not so kind. And so to learn to differentiate, right? 'Cause you talked about this aspect of you that has incredible capacity, and there's many names for it, you know? A common in our group, people call universal energy. You can use the word God, although that's so triggering for so many people, divine love. You call it whatever you want, higher self, but we can go weird in that sense, because on our podcast, just for our listeners, we've had like PhD, psychologist, quantum physicists, they're researching this stuff. They're aware there's more of this life than our five senses in the materialistic view. That discussion is being handled by the scientists that like that kind of stuff. So I'm gonna just share that there's more to life than meets the eye. How then do you get to trust that part of you? So how do you get to connect it? 'Cause there's a lot of noise. Right? - Yes. - Right, there's a lot of noise. And so did you have a lot of noise? And-- - Oh, no, not me. No, I was just clear and centered, and just full of daisies. Yeah, 'cause I wonder honest to know, 'cause when they hear this, they're like, well, what's wrong? 'Cause-- - Why can't I do that? Yeah. - No, if you come from fear and lack, you're gonna get like attracts like you're gonna get more fear and lack. If you come from feeling whole and complete, you're gonna get more abundance in your life. And the people I interview, and I'm curious, I'm actually not curious in the sense that I kind of know the answer 'cause I listen to your book. - Yeah. - But I came up with this structure that I noticed all the teachers of consciousness are doing this. - Yes. - They're all doing this. Some have 10 steps and 20 steps, some have two steps. But the end of the day, what I notice is they all have an aspect of notice, making the unconscious conscious. When you believe in the story, you make it real, you're at the effect of it, so don't take it personally. Then from there, accept a former surrender, letting go, accepting isn't resignation, doesn't mean you like it. You're just not gonna fight with reality. So the resistance drops, you become present through these uncomfortable feelings. And now that you're present, you're accessing, now you get to hear your higher self, choose again, right action falls right thinking. And I feel that you're saying that too. And I'd like you to unpack that now. - Yeah, I have a few things to say actually. So I love that formula. I think that's a great awareness. I would say a few things. I think, 'cause people ask me all the time, how do I hear the voice of love? Or I don't even know what that means or that inner voice. And one of the simplest things you can do is just do something you love. It's just do anything you love. If you do something you love, if you're doing something you love, you get energy. It gives you other resources. You're in higher capacities. And so it's one of the quickest ways to shift is just to start doing things that you love, because I'm a very practical person. And for me, I needed to know this was gonna work. I needed to see evidence, right? I put my whole life on the line for this. But one of the things I saw was that every time I did anything I loved, things would move forward or I would feel different. And so you start getting a sense of faith that way. The other thing and more to the point that you are making is I think the biggest thing when people say, I can't hear an inner voice, or I don't know how to follow this instinct inside me, I think the biggest thing that I would tell somebody is the only reason you're not hearing a voice of love or voice of centeredness, a voice of brilliance, absolute brilliance that is you, in you and only in you and is meant to come forth in this lifetime. The only reason you're not hearing it is because you are listening to another voice, right? If you are not hearing your true voice, baby, you are hearing another voice. And so one of the sneakiest techniques I can offer you is stop listening to self-judgment, stop listening to self-judgment. The whole point of whenever I'm learning to trust yourself was just this feeling of saying, what if we could create a whole new relationship with ourselves where we only listen to a self-affirming voice, where we never listen to a voice that was judging us? One of the things that I've learned and that I teach-- and I've mentioned to you, I also teach a course in miracles, a spiritual study program, and I do lots of classes on that online. But one of the things that I teach all the time is you will never hear inspiration if you're a listening to judgment. You will never hear inspiration. You will never hear genius. You will never hear your next step while that sense of judgment is going on. And so to your point, we do start becoming aware of that. We start becoming aware of those voices in what we choose. Right. And do you find that or resonate with this about these uncomfortable feelings in our society? We tend to want to medicate them, numb them, right? And so we'll use drugs, alcohol, work. But it seems like most of the teachers are conscious. It's leaning into them, like actually being present with them. These uncomfortable feelings are actually opportunities and they act as portals to get you present. So it's the opposite. It's counter-intuitive. Don't turn your back to them. So that's your take as well, right? Absolutely. And it took me years to realize that, to lean into those difficult feelings, to find out what they're telling us. But also, like you said, the beliefs, right? The beliefs, like to start becoming aware. I want to tell you just a quick little story about that because it was in my book, but it was just a wake-up call for me. So one of the things that I teach from Course in Miracles is always that it's not what's happening in your life that's upsetting you. It's not what's happening in your life. It's that's upsetting you. It's what you're making it mean, right? It's what you're making it mean. So it's the beliefs you're holding. It's always the beliefs. So like you were saying, we want to start paying attention to those difficult feelings, those difficult beliefs. So I started noticing I had this belief that kept coming up that said, I never get what I want. I never get what I want. But it would just always come up. You know, like a speaking engagement when you come through and it'd be like, see, I never get what I want. Or somebody didn't call me back. I don't get what I want. My favorite lipstick was discontinued. Oh my gosh. This is the crisis. So anyway, I started noticing like, where the heck did that belief come from? Because it wasn't even true, right? I was living in a-- I got my books published by the best publisher. I had so many things happen that I wanted. So why did I have this belief? Because when you have a belief, by the way, you see the belief and you don't see reality. You see that feeling, but you shut out everything else, right? And so I'll just tell you this quick story. I realized when I was a little girl, I was shopping with my mother. And I wanted-- I was shopping. And one day I saw these red shoes. And I was like, oh my god, I want those red shoes, right? But my mother's a very practical woman. And I know she's never going to get the red shoes. she's gonna say. the green elf shoes they're on sale go get those you know I mean just of but that day she said you can get the shoes and I was so excited I was watching them wrap the shoes up in the box and put it in the tissue paper and then put it in the shopping bag and my mother took the shopping bag and she lost the bag and she lost the shoes and I think in that moment I created this belief that said I'll never get what I want I'll never get what I want and it was something like almost to kind of defend against any future pain any future disappointment right then I'll never get what I want and so I carried that for my whole life right and instead of and that was by the way that belief is more damaging one disappointment I made it I made I closed my heart to my whole life and I said forget it I'm not going to want anything that's more damaging the amazing part of this story is I was talking to my mother years later and she's like what are you talking about you got those red shoes I'm like what do you mean I know we got them what we lost them and she's like yeah and then we called the department store and they found them and we got them and I had no memory of that at all from a clinical hypnosis perspective first of all love what you're sharing here so like you said you can have a situation where she was re-lossed and you have a new belief a new program I'd never get what I want and that becomes the self-fulfilling prophecy and when we're young we're sponges are prefrontal cortex is informed yet we're like in theta brainways we're like sponges and what I'm I'm pulling out of this is you can't judge the trauma based on the event how you perceive it so a belief comes and then the subconscious wants congruency so even though there's a part of you that wants to have what you want you have a program that got imprinted on you I never get what I want so it looks for that yes when I said notice we see the world to the lens of our subconscious you can you don't have that memory because you changed your reality of the red shoes but you actually got the red shoes so we are experiencing reality based on our subconscious program the lenses that we have and this ties into your book trust yourself I'm working on those old beliefs and that chitter chatter because if you have you're no good you don't deserve to have it if you can start noticing catching that and changing the leg the the language I think in your book you're like oh sweetheart you know like for you versus you idiot how did you do this yes just because it can be simple small things done repetitively will make a change and so there's one of those one of those noticing and accepting yourself for the person who said you're an idiot and now do it choose again is how could you say it differently if this was a your three-year-old child how would you speak to her well then speak in that voice yes yes yes yes that is phenomenal and you know you were asking for formulas and tools and I mentioned to you earlier I mentioned on over email I have a I have a tool that I assign to all my clients I inflict on all my students it's my personal best technique it has saved my life a million times I'll just share it briefly and if you want of it for your audience it's free I can you know so like I'll just say tamikives.com forward slash best dash tool we're gonna put that in the show notes everybody and so it's my number it's the it's the tool I give to everybody if you want to learn to trust yourself if you want to get out of fear and you want to learn to trust yourself and so it's a it's a short video I did that really walks you through it I make you do it at the time it's fun it takes like five minutes and it will get you somewhere but but basically I will just tell you that it's just a way to work with different voices in your mind it's one thing like you and I are saying listen to the voice listen to the voice I'm not so hot at listening to the voice I don't know you know like you know that would mean shutting up long enough and and being still I have lots of voices so for me I write them right so it's a technique I use where I literally let fear speak again a lot of times in new thought communities or personal growth personal development communities we have this fear a fear right where we're saying oh my god don't look at the fear don't look at fear be positive right I do look at the fear I want to know what it sounds like I want to be familiar with it I want to start knowing the tone and the energy so I can catch it more so I will literally write the fear out what it's saying everything it's saying and then I will and it gives the video gives you some cues of how to do this of then I will tap into this other voice this amazing other voice that is in all of us that is your higher voice your intelligent voice your loving voice and I let it right back and so and then I dialogue back and forth and back and forth for me it's probably been one of the best things I've ever done with my life it's it's helped me to really start creating a relationship with myself that I know how to listen to something else and then and like I said when I wrote learning to trust yourself my main goal was for myself not only for other people but for myself to heal I wanted to learn how do I create a relationship with myself so that I can do anything I want in this life how do I not get in my own way and so that's really helpful yeah get out of your own way yes I like how you integrate the parts you know and this would become a popular form of therapies what is it integrated family systems parts work but I like it because often we push away that part of ourselves the ego yes and you're taking a relationship and so all the parts if they get seen and heard Gordon Newfell the locals psychologists here when you feel seen and heard you feel that feels love yes and you talk so much about love this love energy had Joe Vitaleon here love every love love love energy yeah not Holly would love yeah but this love energy of of acceptance yes right yes of this love energy of being seen and heard I find that when you're doing your exercise what fires for me my mind is that that part of you that is being dismissed or pushed aside because the size is no or your mother says no or whatever it's finally getting seen and heard yes even here part of you doesn't mean you agree with it doesn't mean you like it you're just accepting that there's a part of you that thinks until this way yeah yeah and and I think and I think there's other aspects of this as well because I think it's kind of what you were saying with the hypnosis about like certain beliefs that are underneath things I didn't even know I had another voice I was just listening to this negative voice and like in my world I just thought it was being realistic well you got to be realistic you got to be savvy you got to be smart about it you know you're a certain age you can only have this you can't have that don't don't think you know like I just thought it was smart I never knew there was another voice right I you know you'd read other spiritual books and you'd hear that and people would say oh my god listen to your higher voice but like what amazes me about doing that technique that I was sharing on the best tool is every single time no matter how scared I am no matter how angry I am no matter how frustrated I am I can access something else that's really wise and deep and amazing and I didn't know that right so for me that was amazing and then the other part of this too when we were talking about love everything love everything the beauty of that the beauty of really accepting all our voices and loving ourselves and loving all voices is that for me and again I'm coming from of course miracles tradition and so is that I can't hear the voice of spirit I can't hear the voice of universal energy while I'm in a negative energy right there's not a there's not a match there's not a vibrational match so if I am accepting or loving something I'm in this other energy and then I am a match to something higher than other things can happen so you're like a radio dial you tune into it right into it through these exercises like this writing exercise that you shared and do you find then because you're so you teach the course of miracles I'm curious that this is a line there I often found for myself and and what I share with my patients is when you have a lot of noise in the system you can't hear it right yes yes I call that that's resistance so when you're fighting with reality there's resistance and so accepting what is leaning into these uncomfortable feelings you actually said it's the fear of the fear is the fear of the disappointment is the fear of is worse than the actual of yes so when you lean into it and your book has so many every chapter gives us tools when you're able to learn to because it is a skill it's uncomfortable you have to be willing to feel uncomfortable and get practice that metabolizing these uncomfortable feelings and when you're able to lean into them and use these tools that you share the resistance drops now the noise is gone now inspired thought yes now you hear it which leads to red actions because yes because we both like the the practical how to exactly so resistance is the issue fighting with reality love does not mean you like it that's why the love word sometimes is confusing because people think I don't like this I know no no can you accept it and and I really love that you brought this up because there's there's so many deeper things within this right like so first of all what you just said was brilliant of just that you know it is like if we again of course Merkel's point of view of you know if I am accepting loving it not judging really well from of course Merkel's point of view when it says loving it just means not judging it doesn't mean oh my god I love it right it just means I'm not attacking I'm not in defensiveness right I'm just not judging I'm aware right of when I'm doing that again like you said other things can come through. But here's the other thing. Sometimes we're resisting something because we're misinterpreting it. Right? So that a lot of times we're assigning a meaning to it or we're just saying, "Ugh, that, you know, I can't stand this." And again, what I teach is there's always another way to see this. You're not seeing what's really going on. It's always working in your favor. There's always a movement towards health. There's always a movement towards grace. But we're not seeing it because we're interpreting those old ways. And so I was just going to read something super quick. It's a short passage from learning to trust yourself because one of my biggest fears was disappointment. I was afraid to say, "Well, this is very cool because I've done a hundred plus episodes, many authors." And this is the first time I'm going to have an author read from their book. So my first, we don't have a bell or something, but our first. We need that bell. Chimes, the angels are chiming here. You're my first time. It's just a short one, but it's like, for me, I was so afraid of believing in these things because I was afraid of disappointment. Right? And so I'm just reading this, it's a super short. And if you get the book or whatever, on page 15, if you're looking for it, I was saying, "An inspired life works when we move forward, not when we think about moving forward." Right? And then it says, "Maybe you'll relate to this. I was afraid to trust myself because I was terrified of being disappointed. I was afraid to believe in a positive energy or universe or any idea that made me feel warm inside. I didn't want to break my own heart. I could point to times in my life where I believed something would work and it didn't. I didn't want to open myself up to ever being disappointed again. Here's what I know now. A truth that feels like a meteor shower or like a key to a door that had always been locked. It wasn't disappointment that caused me to stop believing. It's when I stopped believing that I felt disappointed. Yes, things happened that didn't go the way I expected or desired. Then I chose to stop trusting. I closed my heart, gave up on everything. This self-abandonment sabotaged my frame of mind, my enthusiasm, and my actions. I became unavailable to anything progressing and maturing into better outcomes. This was the problem, the cause of my black hole. Because here's the real truth. Every time I have stayed open and moved forward, continuing to believe in my path, I have discovered something that made me believe in my path. So I just wanted to share that because for me it was like, "Pah!" When I realized, "Oh my god, I didn't stop believing because I'd been disappointed." It's just that I was disappointed because I stopped believing. I stopped trusting. I stopped daring. I stopped going forward. I started assuming nothing was ever going to work. I started assuming all these painful thoughts and then I would drag in past stories and past ideas instead of staying open and available. And that's what we're talking about because when you trust yourself and you become available, really available, then anything's possible. And from what you shared, thanks for reading that, X-ray page 15 in her book, "Trust yourself." You're saying then things, and we hear this a lot in the conscious circles. Things don't happen to you. They happen for you. And if you can, this is that noticing part, you see the world through the lens of your subconscious. That's how you give it, meaning you're suggesting that can you put on a different lens? Maybe look for a new perception to see where's the opportunity here? There's an opportunity for growth. And there's an underlying assumption that consciousness, conscious works through us and consciousness is inherently loving. That's the biggest assumption, which allows you to trust part of that. Even though what you think is not working out in your favor, there's that part of you knowing that, "How's this happening for me? Where's the opportunity for growth and evolution? Is that what you're sharing here?" Absolutely. And that gives you the courage to look at it. And to start to experience it. And to not fear it. To go back to you're not resisting. If I'm already thinking, "This is happening for me somehow," or that there's love here, grace here, or something helpful, maybe I won't resist it as much. Maybe like what we were just talking about before. Or when we were talking before about the breakdown to the breakthrough, when I was writing my first book, I had a meltdown. It took me 11 years to write my first book. It just took me for Amber. And I always tell people, it took that long because it took 12 years. And I always tell people, I think it took me 11 years to heal in one year to write a book. And by that, I mean, it was like all these things of that, the things that are in our way, the belief systems that say, "It's too late. I should have done this by now." I'm not as successful as that person, or whatever junk we each individually have. Those negative beliefs or those breakdowns are actually in our favor. Because what it forced me to do was to confront these limiting beliefs and to make another choice. To make another choice that would change my entire life. And to rewire everything. So anytime you're going through a disappointment right now, or pain, or frustration, a job loss, some employee quit, whatever is going on in any of our lives, this is the moment. This is the opportunity that you have to really do this differently, to open up to seeing this differently, to choosing differently, to showing up differently, and changing your whole life. And I'm curious because here's an experience for me, because you said employee, I've had where I've had an employee leave quit and it triggered me, like you know, abandonment, shame or something here, whatever the program never judge the action. And so through the years using these tools, they've been metabolized. And this is where I say, "Well, this shit really works." I've had employees leave nothing. No visceral somatic response. Mentally, I can say, I don't want it. I don't like it. Like I still get that it's not what I prefer. Yes. But there is no visceral response, which I would say no resistance, which means I'm at peace because why stress unnecessarily. And now the flow and receptivity is there, trusting that other things will come. And I'm open, available to the opportunities. And I'm able to see those synchronicities. And they do it. Fantastic. We'll have to struggle through these changes, right? Yes. You don't have to struggle. So I want to quote something from your book. Tell me if I misquoted you. But it's related to this. I really, because people are constantly trying to get out of the discomfort. And I get that, no, that's the opportunity for growth. Rather than post traumatic stress disorder, your book is teaching us post traumatic growth opportunity, right? And we see this in, you know, there's mirrors of everything in our lives. Like we have to break down the muscle through exercise for it to grow. Yes. Right? Yes. I'm sure when like, break down, when our cells divide, the DNA, the chromosomes have to separate. There is a breakdown. And then they replicate and they fold up again. I wonder if the cells are going, Oh my god, I don't want this. I can't, you know, maybe they're smart enough to go. Exactly. We'll ask the boy, does the caterpillar go, Oh my god, I'm turning into liquid. And then it's a butterfly. So we see this in life everywhere. And so this evolution could be if you resist it, you amplify the discomfort. Yes. If you, it's the Buddhist expression that, what look the growth? Buddhism says pain is inevitable. Yes. Suffering is optional. So if you have an event that you don't like, if you resist it, you now break the suffering. But you could have the pain without the suffering. And therefore, you create the suffering. You literally shut down your neurochemistry. You shut down your creativity, your openness. So I'm curious what was the quote you were going to read? Because I got all I got it all highlighted. Okay. The, because it's related to what we're talking about. The path of empowerment begins when you feel defeated. I stop resisting the difficulty. Painful emotions are opportunities to grow. And you can have both at the same time. So I'm putting here, you can have pain in where I'm at. So this is where it's my accepting what is, right? Yes. Yes. And you say faith of where I'm going. Yes. Again. Yes. Yes. Yes. That was, that was really a, like a transformation. It's one of the reasons I write, you know, like I'm because in all my books, I have these, you know, this book healed me. I have to tell you, like when I was writing this book, it was just like it was, it really, really healed something in me. And that particular passage, I have a whole chapter on resistance because I feel a lot of that sometimes. I'll feel defeated or I'll feel broken or I'll feel I don't want this or, you know, that same thing of like, oh, God, this again, really this one. I thought I healed this 400 times ago. Every, I can't tell you how many of my clients and patients say that. And that's my biggest smile. I've done it too, right? - Yeah. - I've worked this 500 times, but to me, it's like, I now have the attitude like, oh good, I don't have to find a new story. I know this story. (laughing) I know this movie. I know this movie. Sure, let's do it. Let's do it. Four years old. - And of course, the same story is coming up 'cause that's the core one, right? So me and that passage, it was such an awakening to realize I could have both things at the same time. I could have the discomfort of the pain and not resisting it. I could have mercy for the pain. I could be not making myself wrong for it. I could be merciful about it. I could be kind and I could have absolute faith. Absolute faith that, oh, this is good. This is good. - And then you say, struggle is the light breaking through. And so like you said, you're blocking it. The light's trying to go through your throat. - Am I good? And I say the struggle is the light breaking through. I like that. - That's a good one. - I know. (laughing) People read my books back to me all the time. I'm like, show, where, where was that now? - I know you channeled it. I'm sure it could come through you, right? So, and that idea, like the willingness that you share, the willingness to believe before believing, right? I think I can't remember the author now, but there's that expression. I'll believe it when I see it. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - They say, no, you'll see it when you believe it. - Right. - Yes. - So there's that aspect of it. But I really, so much out there about spiritual bypass, 'cause it's never been my style of, you know, oh, everything's beautiful. Like, you know, I'm though, I'm that, you know, here's what I can tell you. There's a part of me that does not like this, right? And I'm willing to accept it. But does accepting be beautiful? That is the definition of love. If I am willing to really just accept where I am, that is love. - But accepting doesn't mean you like it, or like, 'cause acceptance or letting go, those words are used interchangeably. Does letting go mean giving up then? 'Cause people, I don't want to give up on my dream. Like, I don't want to accept this. So can we unpack a bit what we mean from the course of miracles and from your work? - Yes. - What's the purpose of letting go? What's the purpose of accepting? - Yes. - When that logical mind says, I don't accept this. I know this is not right. Or I don't want to let give up. - Yes. Really great, great question, deep question. And I think, so in the course of miracles, it would say that we do not perceive our own best interests. We do not perceive our own best interests. So in my script of life, everybody would do exactly what I want all the time. Right? Like that would be the definition of happiness and success. Like everybody would do exactly what I want all the time 24/7 and then I can be happy. Right? That might not be my best interest. That might not be where I grow. That might be my ego's best interest. But my soul might be going, yeah, she could do a little better. You know, maybe this is gonna be good for her to, you know, Michael Beckwith, I think, says something like a bad day for the ego is a good day for the soul. So to your point about giving up, it's just, for me, the way I look at it is, it's a willingness to say, maybe I don't know. Maybe I don't know. I have an opinion that it would be better if everybody just loved me and did everything I want. You know, I've been opinion that I should get that speaking engagement, right? And that would be the best thing in the world. But maybe I don't know. Maybe I don't know what's really going on. So giving up might just be a willingness. And of course, miracles, it would say a willingness to see things differently, just a willingness, right? And by the way, when we do it and of course, miracles, we don't, it's not positive thinking. It's not like a, then I slap a positive interpretation on it. It's not like I go, oh, and this is really good because blah, blah, blah. It's not that it's all I have to do is I'm open to willingness. I'm willing to see this differently. I'm willing to say, maybe I don't know what's going on. And that's when my intuition can come in. That's when something deeper can finally get through because while I absolutely know and I have this opinion and it's gotta be this way and this is bad, this is wrong, nothing else can come through. And to your point also about letting go, it is the willingness to say, maybe there's something larger here. Maybe there's a bigger reality than just my little mind, that maybe, just maybe there's something larger that's going on and I'm willing to believe that I'll be shown or I'll be guided or I'll be whatever. And so, and when I give up, I don't give up as in defeat, right? Like, oh, well, that's it, I guess that's it, right? Let's, I'll use the example of a speaking engagement. I might still come back and say, here, I really think this would be a great fit for you. blah, blah, blah, I might do the real world things, but I give up my resistance. I give up that I have to have this. - You're no longer attached, 'cause that's a pretty resistance. - No longer attached. - Thank you. - Yeah, 'cause when you're attached to it, so you want it, you'll take action to achieve it. - Yes. - And if you don't get it, you're okay. - Yes, yes. I love your story about the employee leaving and then nothing was happening for you. You're still disappointed or you're still like, yeah, wish this were otherwise, but I don't have to get triggered. Like, all we're talking about is-- - Tamma, I was so happy because I forgot about, I was like, hey, I don't feel anything. - That's amazing. - Like, I was like, this used to bother me. Like, and I've heard this through my teaching and I've experienced it multiple times. - Yes. - Different things that used to bother me. And then all of a sudden, the thing happens. And I know how that used to trigger me. And I still intellectually do not like it, right? But I have no vis-response. I'm not going into sympathetic fighter flight limbic system. I'm staying whole brain. And so now I'm prepared to take right action versus action from fear and lack. - Bam, and that is-- - And like that moment is like, wow, like you said, this works. I want to do more. I want to practice more. We are literally changing who we've been. We're literally changing our possibilities. - Eckertolli says you can be at peace and unhappy situation. That's an example of that. And so what I got from your book, because I'm not a fan of the spiritual bypass that everything, like your ego, if your ego's happy all the time, right? Well, then what are you doing here, right? I got from this that life will still happen. - Yes. - But how you perceive it will change. And you can be at peace and unhappy situation. Your partner can leave you. You could have an illness. There's the wrong, the government you don't like gets elected. All these things can happen that you don't like and you're not at a somatic visceral response to. - Amen. - That's exactly-- - You're at peace and unhappy situation. And in that moment, there's no resistance. So flow receptivity, you're still connected. And eventually when consciousness wants to move through you, you are available. And that inspired thought will come through you and there goes the right action. That's my choose again. Because now choose again could be not acting. Eckertolley said it perfectly. The way I summarized it from Eckertolley. He says, once you're present, and I get this from your book as well, once you're present, you can consciously remove yourself from the situation. - Yes. - You can consciously change or improve the situation. You sent another note. I think I'd be a great speaker for this. And if you cannot remove yourself or change and improve, you can continue to surrender to what is except what is. Because in that moment, you can be at peace in an unhappy situation, in that moment. You're available and eventually flow will flow through you and inspire thought and then the action will happen. But it doesn't have to happen in that moment. - And I think that's so important because what you're talking about is not making your identity rest on any one circumstance. My identity doesn't change. Because somebody says no to me, doesn't mean my identity changes. And one of the reasons I'm so passionate about this and the heart of all my work is that I love helping people find their calling, live their calling, give their genius to this planet, give their gifts to this planet, be unstoppable in giving your gifts to this planet, not limit yourself in what you're here and meant to do it anytime. And to do that, it means having a different relationship with yourself. And it's what we're talking about, I think, which is circumstances are gonna happen. You know, some circumstances are gonna happen because they are here to grow you. They are here to catapult you into something even better and more empowered in yourself. You know, like when you said, when you had that moment of doing it differently, oh my God, that's an even better moment than any other moment, right? And so what we're learning is to own our identity, to own our relationship to myself. So that life may not go my way at different times 'cause this is life, but I don't get stopped, I don't get hooked and I don't start making everything mean something about me or negative about me. And again, because I'm in the, in those sphere of helping people who live that calling, go for their dreams, go for their desires, go for what they're meant to do on this planet because we will make a, we all have so many resources that we don't even know we have, right? Because that's the fun part of this. When you start going to being peaceful in an unhappy situation, that's when resources, you don't even know you have come through, right? So I love what you're saying. - In your book, you talk about like getting out of yourself and getting to a state of, to get into a state of receiving, you get into a state of giving. And I think you talk about like giving, like prosperous, it's prosperous to the ego when you give, right? Oh, I'm giving, look how we am a great person or maybe I'll get something in return. but it's empowering to the soul. And you talk to me. about your orthodox background and some of my studies in the past with Kabbalah, they talk about levels of giving and there's a couple of levels here and one level is giving to get, which they said is still good. It's just vibrational, not as high as just giving for the sake of giving. There are no reason to feel when you just give and that's what I got when I was reading that chapter in your book when you're talking about your giving and it makes you open to receiving and how it's yeah, it could be prosperous to the ego, but it's so empowering to the soul. It reminds me of that Kabbalah lesson when you're just giving because it's the right thing to do and the active giving was so selfless. It wasn't for you, but yet you get so filled up for it. You got it. And it's like, you know, I tell a story in the book. I tell a lot of stories in the book about that selfless giving, which I was resistant to by the way, because I know that sounds good, but I'm more like, you know, my ego is like, what am I going to get? And you know, why do I always have to be the nice person? Why do I always have to be the person who grows? Why can't they grow? You know, it's so, but my own healing, I won't tell the story because it's too long, but just a quicky version of it. I had a lot of issues with my mother, you know, like wanting expectations of my mother to be a certain way and be different or whatever. And I had this day where I, it was literally like this energy came through me or just something else where I decided I was going to give to her. I was going to give to her everything I had wanted her to give to me. I was going to stop, you know, being in this victim mode of, but she didn't give me this and, and she doesn't get me whatever. I'd literally heard an inner voice. A voice of guidance says that said, who is ever is stronger in the lifetime? Who will be the one who loves? Whoever is stronger in the lifetime will be the one who loves. And it was this instruction that in this lifetime, for whatever reason, I was stronger or healthier and it was my job to love her, you know, and so I had a time where I helped her clean her closet out and I, and she was resistant because she was a hoarder and she had like tongues of stuff or whatever. And I was so patient and so loving and so giving and stayed there and I wasn't doing it to get anything. I just, I just felt like my mother had never had anybody who loved her in a certain way. I have been privileged to have people who've been kind to me in my life at different times and something in me like rose and stopped being the victim and stopped going, but she's not this way to me and I never learned. And it just happened and it was probably one of the highest moments of my life because it was this thing when we give selflessly and it's not, you can't make yourself do it. I can't go, okay, that's it. I'm going to make myself do this. But you know, when we start deciding with other people, we're going to be the people, we're going to be the people they would, we wish they would be, we wish humanity would be. When I come from that selflessness, I'm touching my spirit. I'm touching my energy. I'm touching my eyes. Hi, that day. I was like, wow, who is this chicken? I like her. You know, it's like, I want to be that person in the world. Well, from your book, that's the sense I get is that the tools that you share in the book are how you get the received. That's how you're getting filled up. And now that you're filled up, you have the resources to go and give to others. It's not that I'm going to give and this person has to give back to me. It's not like on the ego level, you're really soulful. You've been filled up through this work. And so, and because people, there's, there's this myth that if I become present and conscious and I don't have these strong needs and desires, then nothing will get done in the world because I'm just so happy sitting on the mountain top. But from reading your book and hearing your story, my experience as well is that it's the opposite. When you feel yourself up, so you are getting soulful, it becomes overflowing and then all of a sudden that inspired thought leads you to go clean out your mother's closet without needing her to acknowledge or give it back. You're doing that with yourself. Like you said at the beginning, you're taking up a relationship with yourself. So you're not looking for it from your children, from your partner, from your employer, from society. You're, here's my metaphor for this. This is what I share with my patients all the time. We're all walking around like glasses of water. And when somebody fills up your water, it feels good. And when, if somebody's taking water, it's needy-diss, it doesn't feel good. But if you follow the tools in your book, for example, you're now under the faucet. Your glass is filled up constantly from the faucet. You're hooked up and you're overflowing so much that you may not even be able to perceive or notice somebody taking your water because as fast as they take it, you're filled up. And so your book to me is a way to turn on the faucet. So you're filled up and now you don't need it from all the other glasses out there because you're getting it through your own relationship with yourself, which is your higher self. Yes. Beautiful. You're going to go on tour with me. You said better than I can say it. I understand your book well. And it's such a beautiful thing for all of us to learn because, you know, we have spent so much time in our lives, wasted so much time in our lives trying to change other people, trying to change circumstances. And again, we changed the relationship with ourselves and man, everything starts to change. It's awesome. When you do the inner work, the external world starts to, one of two things happen. Your perception to the external world changes. So now you're not at the effect of it because you see it differently. Your lens has changed. The second thing sometimes happen is the actual external world changes. It actually has a shift to match your internal world. But even if it doesn't, you're okay because your perceptions change. Because we wrap up, I have to do a Star Trek question for you. And then I want to learn more about where they find you, but your online courses, your books and all that. But I heard somewhere that you like Star Trek, right? Did I miss here that? I love Star Trek. I don't remember writing about it. No. So, well, it's on my right here. Which Star Trek? Did you do the next generation? I did. I'm an original Star Trek girl and then I'm a next generation girl. Yes. So, third question. Did you ever watch the Picard series that came out? No, I did not. Okay. So, for all of our Star Trek fans that did the next generation and for you, Tama, it's three seasons. Okay. Because it's 30 years later of the next generation. Okay. Right? So, all of the characters come back. But I wrote a blog called Integrating Our Light and Shadow Lessons from Star Trek. I got to tell you a little experience because of your book reminding me of this, about not being afraid of our fears, the fear of that these uncomfortable feelings that if we can use the tools that you're sharing your book to face them, we will metabolize. They get metabolized. Yes. There's alchemy that happens. So, I'm in a meditative state. I'm meditating and I'm practicing in the meditation I'm doing, letting go and surrender. And I'm having a beautiful experience after going through the not so beautiful experience in the meditation of surrender because the uncomfortable feelings come up. I practice being with them. And then all of a sudden, I have memories of an episode on Picard season three, where data and lore, if you remember data, lore is evil to end. They have this interaction. And what ends up happening is data gives all of his memories to lore. Afterwards, there was a surrender that happened. Data did a full surrender. And in that, him and lore, there's a oneness that happens when he fully surrendered. He did not, the ego is a dirt. He did not ostracize the ego. He did not, I'm trying to destroy the ego. The light absorbed the light embrace. It gave the darkness all the light. And in that, it became all light again. But it was interesting. Yes. In my, in that meditation, I was like, oh my God, the writers of Star Trek are awakened. They are totally getting consciousness and the whole process of surrender. Right? So guess what happens? In that meditation, I go to Google and I ask what the title of that episode is called. So episode Picard season three, the title of the episode is surrender. So I have a blog on my thing called integrating our light and shadow lessons from Star Trek. I'm going to send that to you. But please watch Picard. And when you see episode a season three, episode eight, it's about surrender. Your book, all the conscious teachers, you're one of the conscious teachers. They're all giving us tools and surrender. To me, that's the secret sauce. When you drop the resistance, you're no longer blocking your higher self. And so everybody's teaching surrender. Surrender is not giving up. Right? Surrender is a form of giving in a soror of accepting. It's so weird that you're saying this, by the way, because when this book came out learning to trust yourself, my personal work was I dedicated my life to surrender. And before this book came out, I just thought, I don't know what needs to happen with this. I certainly have my ambitions in my dreams, right? But it's just like, I want to surrender to it all this time. I want to be on the wild ride. I want to, I want to not lose myself. I want to be awakened in myself no matter what happens. Right? And then it's been that and I have to tell you, it has been the best year of my life. That's why all these things are consciousness like yourself. That's the message. And then what you guys are doing, so what Tam is doing everybody and in her books and in her latest is She's teaching us how to surrender because people go I don't want to surrender Remember yeah, we we all get it. We all and it's what same teams these same zs worth the same thing It's to your point which I love that you made is that we're we're Joining both things the left brain the right brain. I am I'm a critical thinker. I'm I'm ambitious I'm an achiever and I'm working with consciousness and surrender right so it's like it's really important to have role models of People who are doing both right who are not just because I mean I love all kinds of spirituality I'm open-minded, but I have a hard time like if somebody is saying just trust I can't do that. I needed to I needed to fight with this right? Yeah, practical. Well look I have professionals Mostly that come in that I see a lot of professionals well-educated They have that block we have that block so we need a little bit of doing or as Ellie says my friend Ellie calls it Undoing to get into the beanness and your book is your book is that book So I want to thank you time out for writing all five of the books so far the last one being learning to trust yourself Yes, how do we find you if we want to know about your books your online classes? What do you offer to help with the Evolution of consciousness on it? So I think if I think first of all if people are interested in this with me Best thing one of the best things you can do is take a course in Miracles class with me online I have a brand new one coming up called your brave new life with the course in Miracles in January It's on my website can just go out to temakeaves.com the mother ship You'll get everything make sure you get the best tool because that will get you on the newsletter if you want or you can just go to Temakeaves.com forward slash I think it's fortune dash cookie or something like that. So anyways, but The best best ways to get a hold of me of course of the website. I'm on social media daily on Facebook Instagram TikTok you name it if you do Facebook my page was hacked. It's not just my name anymore So the new pages Facebook Temakeaves author, but seriously, I'm just encouraging people to join me. I have I have a community of thousands and thousands of people who Are living in inspiration instead of fear and I think it's really important to get around other people who Hold you to this to help you to this right? So I have a lot of different online classes and and they're live with me And also I do retreats all over the country and different parts of the world and speaking engagements Of course, I'm always looking to share the these concepts with people But seriously, I would love love love to hear from you because the most important thing you're going to do in this lifetime Is to trust yourself and to trust the desires that are in you the genius that's inside you What you're meant to do here because I know for all of us we've just scratched the surface I always tell my clients my coaching clients. You're so much more powerful than you know, but it's only when we trust ourselves So thank you and time as book will Give you a guide on how to trust yourself. Oh, I forgot to mention my books So all my books are on Amazon and then there's also some of my books are on my website at temakeaves.com forward slash books But everything's on Amazon and you can get everything's everywhere. So you can always get it there So yeah pick up pick a copy of learning to trust yourself I would love to hear from you. I would love to hear from you how it's going and it and learning to trust yourself has a million resources in it too It's got a thing that you can download that has all kinds of meditations and other free classes within it So it's just a great resource Damn it. Thank you very much for today. Oh, thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me and thank you so much for the work You're doing and the light that you're bringing it's amazing. Thank you. Thank you Thank you for spending this time with us on the coherence code podcast I'm Dr. Lauren Brown and I will see you next week for another conversation on coherence and healing if this Conversation resonated with you. Please like subscribe or follow the show and also share it with someone who might Benefit from it as well remember to take a moment to breathe reflect and stay connected Welcome to the coherence code podcast