How to Measure Creative Success in 2026

Every hour that's going by, how many followers you have is declining in importance. I've spent 15 years building my world. It's collapsing. The creative is finding the audience. In fact, I would argue that we don't even live in social media anymore. We're firmly in something I call interest media. Like, the creative is finding the audience. If I make a video right now on TikTok about skateboarding, I've never made a single piece of content about skateboarding. The first 500 people that don't follow me that are going to see that piece of content are into skateboarding. This is a very profound shift. And it is elevated organic social creative to the first thing in the marketing mix. Because if you do it well, you can cut your media spend. You can cut your overall marketing budget. And you'll have more effectiveness. That is what we're all looking for. The problem is so many people in this room have so been addicted for a decade of just math, math, math, math, math that they're scared to even put their toe into something they can't measure from the first second. Because you're not actually marketers, you're salespeople. This is the GaryVee audio experience. I'm in a funny part of my career where I'm not doing a lot of speaking. And I'm trying to be selective of which ones I go to. And I thought it'd be nice to tell you genuinely why I'm here. I have a lot of admiration for practitioners. And that seems to be the makeup of this audience. And it's funny because I build so much brand and personal brand that I'm aware that even many people in this audience might think I'm a motivational speaker or a mascot. But since 1996 to today, which is now, you know, quite a period of time, there's never been a day in the last 30 years where I am not on the hands of the wheel of a business or the marketing execution of that business. And so when I answer this question, it comes from my day to day on wine text or V friends or all these things. And I think the most interesting thing that I'm curious about in this room is where are you on the journey between brand and sales, right? They're incredibly different. But I would argue that as we sit here today, the most exciting thing, probably for a lot of you in this room, if I'm reading my intuition right, is we are in a very interesting era in the last three years where we are dangerously close to putting a very significant math overlay on art. So I would argue we are in the first era ever where you can actually measure creative. And that's because you can post all of your content on the seven social networks and the reach that that creative will get organically is something you can measure. If you do not use working media dollars to disguise your creative, you're able to actually measure the creative. And if you can measure the creative, you can fundamentally grow your business to the moon. And so what am I thinking about? I'm thinking that holy crap organic social media in a five-year window has gone from a nice to have to, I would argue, for the most performance, quant mathematical people in this room that organic social has become the most important thing. And I do not believe that most people believe that or realize it yet, thus that motivates me to get on stages and talk about it. It's hard to hear this because on one level, like we have to make sure that the business survives and I need to measure my ROI on every dollar I'm spending. A great happens all the time, right? I agree. And now if you have the measurements, a lot of the room is some agencies, markers, etc. When you go to bat and argue, it used to be, I'm going to cookie, I'm going to follow you all around the internet. That's right. And now it's the creation of, I'm going to create the persona that I'm going to attract the customer that is already into a specific thing because majority of the AI is happening on the major networks anyways. Yeah, but I would argue that let me go a little further because this is a room of practitioners. Here's the punchline. I believe that if you cut down your working media dollars and I'm sure it's not lost actually, how many people here use Google search and Google ads as a meaningful part of your mix? Raise your hands. Raise them high. I mean, I'm sure every single person that just raised their hand is not delusional to the fact that that ecosystem is about to get very expensive because so much of the supply of the attention is going to GEO and AEO, aka AI search versus going to Google and everything you've been buying is about to go up triple and quadruple and price because you and your direct competitors are going to be battling for less of the inventory that's there, right? What I'm saying to everyone in this room is I believe that if you made a much more meaningful investment financially to organic social creative and measured it and the way you measure it is if it does better than your normal posts. You post organically, you normally get a thousand views. I'm keeping a very like humble here. You now post something and it gets a hundred thousand views. If you then take that piece of creative back to the house, back to you and you slightly tweak it and you add performance elements to it, a free shipping code, a discount code, you change the copy and you rerun it in the platform it went organically strong. You rerun it in Instagram or TikTok or Google shorts that it will outperform your best practices on AB creative and that is the punchline thus rendering you not having to waste as much money on the working media dollars and that once you get that fly real working you will see substantial growth because you're doing brand and you're doing conversion and here's the biggest fucking elephant in the room. You're starting to feed the future of the LLMs. My friends, you have to start feeding these LLMs, these chatbots, open AI, what happens inside a meta, Gemini for sure. I could argue in the last week I've decided for myself that Google shorts has become the most important social platform for me coming from fourth or fifth place because I'm fully aware that Gemini is going to eat on the back of the information on shorts and I know that Gemini is going to have a very significant piece of the puzzle because Google can't afford for that to fail and they will put all pot committed to that. So again, I'm just ranting here for a second but organic social creative has exploded in importance for the math kids. I think it's measurable brother. I don't want to waste money, I don't fucking want to guess. I just don't know how people don't see what's happening and that's what I'm trying to suffocate. You can't just throw good working media dollars at bullshit creative and look at your cat and LTV and Rhoaz. All of you've played this game. The reason it worked for the last generation was the fucking Facebook ads were so cheap. This is what I was yelling about in 2017 and 16 and 15 remember. They were so fucking underpriced, you could be dog shit at the creative and it still worked. We're in a different era and you need to understand your mix. I hope you're enjoying the podcast right now. Make sure you follow the podcast. That's why I'm interrupting. Let's keep going on this show but follow the podcast. They'll make my mom super happy. The relationship of authentic content from just paid to organic and then the inclusion of now AI iterations and volume and drama that came out with the update of like they want net new concept from a very specific way of content coming on meta. Is it iterate until you find what's happening or is it brand new big swing concepts across the board? For me it's who the fuck's gonna buy your shit? How many different consumer segmentations are there? There's probably 40, 50, 60 different segmentations right? If I'm selling wine, the creative I'm going to put against a 25 year old male who uses wine as an asset to their dating life is very different creative than I'm going to put in front of a 48 to 52 year old female who's part of a wine club, who's only been drinking too much Pino Grigio, Chardonnay and Sansaire and I want to show her there's other things to drink and that goes on forever. One of the you sell skateboards or t-shirts or toothpaste. So for me it's who are the 30 to 40 different consumer segmentations and not the bullshit of yesterday 18 to 35 or yeah these big buckets make no sense. The more narrow you go the more when you think of the creative you're going to make for it. The more that creative is going to have tea, the more that creative has teeth and is more niche, the more the creative will find the audience. I hope it's not lost on you that every hour that's going by how many followers you have is declining and importance. I fucking spent 15 years building my world. It's collapsing. In fact I would argue that we don't even live in social media anymore. We're firmly in something I call interest media like the creative is finding the audience. If I make a video right now on TikTok about skateboarding I've never made a single piece of content about skateboarding. This is a very profound shift and it is elevated organic social creative to the first thing in the marketing mix because if you do it well you can cut your media spend. You can cut your overall marketing budget and you'll have more effectiveness. The problem is so many people in this room have so been addicted for a decade of just math, math, math, math, math that they're scared to even put their toe into something they can't measure from the first second because you're not actually marketers, you're salespeople. That is a, I need you to put this through your pretty heads. You're very attractive crew here and say they will listen to me. When you do not believe in this you're a salesperson, not a marketer. By the way, I love selling. I'm obsessed with being a salesperson. In fact my favorite other thing to talk about live social shopping. I love going live on what not and TikTok shop and being a 100% salesperson. It's my favorite. There's nothing wrong with sales. Sales is remarkable but sales is what you do and rely on when you're not good at railing. But again, I'm addicted to math as I am to art. To me, even this color scheme is not by accident. When I think about marketing, I think about math first art, meaning the math crew is like fucking math and they get delusional because they don't understand the value of the art. The art crew where I spend a lot of my time in Fortune 500 marketing land, those fuckers are completely lost. They think their opinion on a 30 second commercial or on a picture is the end all be all and they disrespect consumer truth. It's not red or blue. It's firmly purple and you have to ask yourself where you're at. Are you one of these people that are obsessed with how the grid looks on your Instagram for brand but can't sell shit? You're too far on the art or you just so math out that you believe in any of the art that you're too far up math. You've got to find this middle and now the art and it's been cycles. The math dominates for a while then the art dominates. When I was writing some of those books like when I wrote the yellow book crushing it, I pounded Facebook as they were so underpriced that just said it. Literally you could put any picture in video, AB test a little bit and you found something that worked for your row as and you cooked VC money was pouring. You won't really even building a real business. You're building a financial arbitrage machine that was just trying to get to the next fundraising round and it all f*cking collapsed. Right now we're in a place where art has the value because the art has napped behind it now. We are literally spending two, three billion dollars in media at VaynerMedia plus I got all my own companies. I believe as I sit here today and say they go with all of you that it is f*cking assamine to spend one dollar of media to amplify a piece of creative that has not been validated by an AI algorithm in a social network. Right now in the audience, how many of you guys, the way that your teams are set up, I know a lot of people, a lot of faces and a lot of brands in this room. There is not a organic team or a marketing there's just like this team makes content. We put it behind ads. Is this how most of you guys are both this way? Anybody different words like? Bro, everyone's different, everyone's got the performance team and then if they are big enough, the brand team, everybody has media and creative separate. It's all just one thing. No shit dick, that's why I'm here. You know what I mean? That's the punchline we need to understand that it changed three years ago. The TikTokification of all social media has changed everything. And again, I'm kind of bouncing here because I'm excited because I get excited because I'm like, oh, I know six people in here are going to do something about what I'm saying. And it's going to fundamentally change everything. Not at first, right? You're going to go back home, you're going to take more money, hire and commit to creative, you're going to post, and after a month, nothing's going to do super well. And you're like, f*cking Gary, f*ck him, right? But then, month three, one video just hits for some unknown reason. You're going to bring it back, you're going to take your performance DNA and tweak it a little bit, and you're going to run ads, and it's going to be $3, $4, $5 less than anything you've ever done in your career in your best performance, and there's going to be room for it, because to create, you know, when you're like, you run out of time with, you know, this is such a big thing for this audience. Like the ad ran too much. There's no more row ads on it. You blame the inventory. It's not the inventory. It's the creative. You're welcome. The amount of money that you can spend on an ad exponentially grows if the f*cking ad is good. How do you find it? But ad, you definitely don't guess. You run creative at scale in these channels, but then this, this is my rant. I know a lot of you follow me, and you know this is my rant, where this rant got super crazy is where we're going with AI bots. The fact that this creative is also going to feed the LLMs, which is basically doing your 1990s version of SEO, and that's not SCM, SEO. It's a very big deal. And I, I mean, every face I'm looking at right now should be posting three pieces of creative organically a day on Google shorts just for the LLM in three years. Just that. Let alone what it's actually doing day-to-day on marketing and relevance, consumer insights, and conversion. If you were to rank, you said Google shorts. What's, what's the next platform where time and attention and effort should be from the brand side? TikTok's got the most advanced algo, as you all know, on a video getting 8 million views that when you normally get 300,000. The problem is the reason I wrote a book called Day Trading Attention is shit changes every day. I'm sure you're aware that TikTok's about to go through significant changes. I have a funny feeling that the algorithm is going to be different and who the hell knows what the hell that thing's going to do. Meta is a beast. Facebook, all of you know. In fact, another thing that I continue to watch and be baffled by is how little effort people are putting into Facebook blue. You all know this. We've all become way too one-dimensional with Instagram and TikTok. Which means the opportunities sit in other places. So Facebook blue is amazing. I'll give you one. Who here markets to 15 to 25? Raise your hands. You sell your stuff to 15 to 25 year olds, product more privately or a little bit. All right, so for the three people that raise your hand, for the Snapchat spotlight, which is like their TikTok, it, you know, obviously it's not the size of TikTok or Instagram, but there's a shit load of 15 to 25 year olds in there. But the good thing is nobody here is marketing inside of it. So it's just good old-fashioned supply in demand. For the B2B people in here, LinkedIn's remarkable. A lot of you have emotional feelings towards LinkedIn from a math standpoint because they have an artificially high CPM floor that isn't the same thing everywhere else. The problem is if you really want to, if anybody here B2B and sell SaaS products, I assume not that meant, okay, raise, raise, raise it high. Don't be shy. Raise it high. For all of you, the issue is LinkedIn has got so much of the audience we want that if you get the creative right, you can even make their inflated floor on CPM's work for you. Because the audience is there. So you can target people on LinkedIn who are CEOs, who are CIOs, who are CTOs, their targeting capabilities is still kind of like 2016-like. So the answer is everyone. You can't, you don't, regardless of how good I am at this nanosecond, every platform is changing. I look at Pinterest once a week just to make sure I'm not missing something. You know? So it's an everyday thing for me. The sweet spot also is there's a lot of agencies that are needing to keep up and satisfy because a lot of on the brand side, there might be product people, but there's a grip of agencies in this room that provide creative, must do more creative for all the platforms that they manage. You obviously have an incredible agency yourself. How are you in forming the teams that can make sure that they're sticking with and keeping up with what they need to be doing? Who's an agency person here? Raise your hands. Raise it high. So for this crew, I've got a very, very, very good piece of advice, especially if you decide to go down the organic path like we have. You can't avoid measuring it. A lot of times those agency people like, just trust me or it's good or of course you need to do it. If you're an agency and you don't do both creative and media, you're going to be in trouble. And when you do creative in media, so again, my agency has $400 million in buildings this year. A lot of revenue, right? Every one of those clients when they ask me what the ROI is of the organic social creative, I tell them if you don't let us do the media, you can't hold me accountable. If I don't do the media, how do you want me to, because the punchline is crush it organically, and then when you have winners, you go into a media spend and you convert it, and everybody here who loves measurement is then cooking, right? Everybody here will buy my thesis. If you can spend, everybody here, brother, just has a marketing budget. So if you have an eight, if you have a $8 million marketing budget, $2 million marketing budget, you don't really give a shit if it's on the media to the platform or if it's to make content, you just want business. Right? What is confusing to everyone now is we've all went so pendulum to spending a lot of it on the media. But the way to actually convert is to put more investment in the creative. So just very basic math. If you have $2 million in marketing and only $80,000 going or $100,000 going to the creative and the other $1.9 goes into media, I am telling you and here's a very important caveat. If you're good at the creative, meaning you have a higher propensity to make videos and pictures that do do well, that if your spend is $500,000 on the creative, your media spend can be a million. Now you're in for $1.5. It will crush your $2 million at $100,000 in $1.9 because the creative is the variable. That is what you have to figure out. However, you want to figure it out. I'm a big fan of live social shopping because I actually see a direct correlation. This might be something you guys can cook with that if you sell, even if you go on TikTok shop and you're not even selling that much stuff, like you sold 80 units, but you can see the data of where you sold 40 of the 80 units by one thing you said, clip that and run that ad, outperforms a lot of your best AD stuff. So you're using the live social shopping as a selling date, but it's also a production day for the creative and you have black and white data that shows the words you said that made more people fucking buy it. I'm sure we can all figure out that that ad will do well. And everybody wins there. Okay, the benefit of having someone that can speak to literally every other person in this room is an absolute blessing. I'm already starting to see some questions come through. Dave, will you throw back up the Slido scan QR code? Is there any questions from the audience that Gary can speak directly to? He's got a power to truly jump into it. Kiana, would you please share your name, the brand to give him as much context as it needs. Hey everybody, my name is Hans Graibard. Gary, create a getting to be here. So I understand that there's a part of the math and there's a part of the art, but the argument that everybody is having right now is ad structure. Whereas people used to have ad structures on meta, whereas like have seven, retargeting, re-interest, broad, all that kind of stuff, we're now seeing it being boiled down to two. Your AI shopping campaign and a testy campaign. And that's an argument that we're seeing. Where do you stand on that argument? That's an end that I'm fine with that. That's a fine structure to be part of the equation. What I'm saying is where's the live shopping of it all if you're selling something? What I'm saying is how much organic creative are you putting out? I think it's not lost on people here. Actually, by show of hands, how many of you were aware of either other businesses or direct competitors or maybe in your own life? How many of you were aware that a DTC brand had a TikTok at 10 million views and sell a fuckload of stuff. Raise your hands. Raise your hands. So to me, like I'm fine with that, but there's so many, it's to me the thing that I struggle with in a room like this is we have this obsession with OR as if there's one structure that's going to work, right? This is an end thing. I'm thrilled with that. You need everything. Literally, I spent 5% of my talk right now trying to make sure that everyone's producing enough content to be the first results when somebody types in, but so should I buy on open AI and on Gemini in three years. So it all depends on your life cycle. Half the people here, brother, don't give a shit for three years because they want to sell their company next 12 months. So they don't need to listen to that as much, but I think it's an end thing, but I will tell you, there's disproportionate returns on investment in a 36, 48 month window right now of really being thoughtful and giving a lot of shits around your organic social freedom. Thank you very much. And then the second question is we were just talking, we're asking somebody on somebody thinks that like, you know, the blend between performance and art and marketing that should be everybody. There shouldn't be an organic and there shouldn't be a paid person. Is that across all channels in your eyes or is that only on, meta, only on Instagram? I think it should be all channels, but I think it should be creative and media, right? Not performance and marketing, just creative and media. But what I'm saying is, and this should make all the math people very happy, I can't believe we can measure creative. I've spent 30 years marketing and I had a guess every time I put something up if that was going to work well and I had to spend real money on Google and meta and other platforms to see the early returns. Even when I got those, even when meta got so good where I could spend a thousand dollars to get meaningful insights, it was still a thousand dollars times unlimited assets. The fact that I can just go organic, have the upside of what everyone just raised their hands about, which is get 10 million views and sell stuff, but then also have the ability to bring that home and go performance. So I think what has to happen is, who here is a media map performance market or raise your hands? All of you know that you've been frustrated with the creative. You're at the mercy of the creative. No matter how good your channel strategy is and like you figured out that nobody knew about Snapchat spotlight and you're buying attention for 40 cents when everyone's spending a dollar on meta, it's still going to matter if the creative fucking sucked. The fact that we're measuring creative as a added value for just posting organically is bananas. So I think it's creative and media people. There'll be lots of channels. We didn't even talk about CTV, YouTube TV, pre-roll or you kidding me? Everyone's like there's so much opportunity, but the creative is the punchline. For example, this keynote, I have your attention, but if everything coming out of my mouth was 2015 best practices and stupid, this wouldn't be effective. The creative is the punchline. And so I need more people to understand that and I understood why people didn't want to because it was all full gazing. And in the ether, right? Now it's not. You post, there's no hiding. If you get 5,000 views, well, because I don't know if you know this. All the AI algos that run the news feeds, they're all based on relevance. This is the first time that distribution is aligned with the advertiser. The newer times and the Wall Street Journal didn't care if you made a full page ad that sucked, they just wanted your money. MEC and CBS and ESPN didn't care if your 30-second commercial was good or bad. They were paying for your distribution. They were charging you. They just took your money. They could care less. Meta and TikTok and LinkedIn and Google care a lot because if your ad and creative isn't good, you're leaving the platform and going to another platform. They're aligned to keep people on the platform. So they're showing. They're setting this up. They want to keep people on. That's why we've gone to interest, not social. How do you keep people on? You put stuff in front of them that they like. I actually predict that these platforms won't even take our ad money if the creative's not good enough. You don't say that is. Is that sick? I literally think there's a day and age where they're going to get so deep on knowing how valuable you're staying on it is that you'll literally try to run ads against a piece of creative. It'll run for a few, you know, a couple hundred bucks and it will stop you. That's how much they want to keep people on. So this is where the era we're in. So creative people who are held accountable to the math are incredibly important and then good media people that understand, okay, now I got some good assets. Where's the underpriced attention? Whether it's CTV, YouTube, Snapchat, Spotlight, Pinterest, LinkedIn, Facebook, Direct Mail, Outdoor. I could care less. What's the price? What's the value? But the creative is measurable. This is a big deal. And that was not the case 36 months ago. I feel like most of us are dealing with some terrible experience on meadow. Something just won't spend. It's because everyone's doing the same shit. You're just letting the AI friends. If you're letting the AI do it and everyone's doing it, what the fuck do things going to happen? Meadow wins. You lose. Make the fuck up. Thank you. So we're going to go, come on, say, this is being avoided again. If you have the questions, ask it. We'll all hand the mic around to promise. Can we go to the other side? This question, Gary, how do you get better at the art as a non-creative person? How do you get better at the art? There's two ways. You're self-aware enough to realize you're not the art person if you hire someone who is or you do, well, some of us in this room have done, which is you get into better shape, which is you go to the gym every day and you eat better. You either spend hours every day, learning how to get better at the art by consuming content around how to get better at the art, or you have the funds or the humility or the self-awareness to say, fuck it. I'm not the art person, which is fine. I'm the business person. I'm the math person. Let me hire someone. Here's why all you math people are going to get so pumped about what's happening. You didn't know how to measure how good the art person was before. Right? You could do it after you spent a lot of money, but now when they post organically on all the channels, either they get views or they don't. And any brand here that is spending money on getting more views for a post they post organically to make it look like it did better so your grid looks good is completely out of their mind. You're literally spending ad money for the perception that the creative did well. Just archive it into the next post. How do you scale, pay social? If you need to test everything organically first, when you have the move that must pass, launch new ads, launch new offers every day. Yes, that's right. That's what you have to do. Done. Great question. But to that question, you do all understand that we're competing against each other for money, right? Like it should be hard. People forget that. I think so. I know so. Look at this room. They're trying to figure out what to do next. No, actually this room to their credit is actually part of the crew that actually can win. There's people that aren't here that are just laying in bed letting the AI do and think it should be all okay. Hi. Hi. My name's Chelsea. My question is I love this conversation. What you said about art and branding and sales is what you do. You're not going to brand me. What do you recommend in terms of budget as you're looking at next year and we're on the smaller side of that really. How much revenue do you do? How much do you spend on marketing this year? Not enough. Three percent. Three percent. Yeah, so more than three percent. But again, I laugh because I'm so obsessed. Because marketing to me is the offense of a business, right? I don't laugh because I don't know your margins. I definitely don't know what your objectives are. So let's break it down because this might help people. So you're doing six million. You spend very little on marketing, which are does that mean you're getting a lot of customers through organic? Yes. So your personal organic content makes sense. You sell a physical product. Yeah, we can design a debt, zero attention. So we're organic on Shopify, from here, platform partners. Have you thought about live social shopping selling on those platforms? I don't know where to begin. Okay, you go to what not and you go to TikTok shop and you just go. Meaning you just Google or chat GPT, how do I sell on what not enter? By the way, every question is no longer valid because AI can answer it for you. Literally, there's no such thing as I don't know where to go anymore. It's crazy. I'm not judging. It's like all of us. It is ludicrous to have a question not answered anymore in the world we now live in. We just haven't all me included adapted fully yet, but in 24 months that will never run through your mind again. Where to start is over. So I get that, but you know what's crazy? You can literally make a product that you sell that comes with the service for free. So for everyone who sells a service, you can literally create. If you want to, the reason I'm going down that path with her is she's personality. So I see an opportunity. Personal brand creates other opportunities. But I think the biggest thing for you is making unlimited content around the service organically across seven platforms, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, all that stuff. And when something does well, that's when you spend media dollars against it to amplify it for conversion. Yes. Fundamentally, you know, I turned 50 in November, which is insane. And I'm like, okay, I'm halfway home, you know, about to go into halftime. What have I learned? I've learned that many things have factored into what's worked for me for 30 years, but disproportionately my obsession with and in a world where everyone's obsessed with or has been a huge competitive advantage. The answer to that question is AI, images, AI video, human images, human video. It's just always a hand. And an opportunity cost and all this, but what people dismiss as you learn. Well, Gary, I don't have time. We'll get the fuck out then because somebody else is going to have time. Hey, hey, hey, hey, good brother. I want to street. What's your name? I'm Josh. Josh. Actually, best friend with foster sheriff. Oh, that's awesome. He's the best. Nice to meet me. I'm going to be a tip. I want to street into the new ad company in New York City. Yes. And street into the ad industry brand brings back to my first class. Drop that of college, street into the every single day, 40,000 steps a day. Both of that will be 32 team members now. It's a incredible result. It's good for you. You have actors and communities and communities. Yep, I totally get it. As I'm proud of this business, where you stand watch now, I am trying to broadcast street ads. How do you see EO competing with us in the next two to three years? Favorably. I literally in 24 months, I'm going to be like, hey, I need a super attractive dude with blonde hair. And I want him to be on a street in Tehran asking people about my, you know, porcupine nuts startup. I mean, it's coming, but that's nothing to get scared of because it's and AI is a huge title wave. Either you're going to be like, fuck and put your head in the sand. And here's your strategy that it doesn't happen. Or you realize you need to be at the forefront of being someone who's great at doing the prompt engineering and have both because there will be room for both. Yeah. Right. And you are a production company of creative. You need to get out of just the niche of that. You need to add and not just street interviews, but other kinds of productions. Other, other content issues. That's right. If you come to me and you're like, hey, guy, I do street videos. I'm like, that's cool. Let's do a different thing. If you come and say, I do street videos. We do podcast production as well. We also do, you know, greens. As you start to add, you become a 360 production company. Obviously, that was your look Vayner Media. For the first three years, all we did was community management. Literally, my company just replied to people in the comments on Twitter and Facebook fan pages. Over the last 12 years, we do everything now. And I think that's what you have to think about. Good luck, brother. I can not get a little bit. Let's do eight. There's more questions. In the last several months, the week's LMS are starting to pull less from Reddit because so much of the Reddit content is that I generated. Day trading attention. So to me, Reddit is standard. Pay attention to what I said. Google shorts. Why? Gemini is real. Why? Google is going to lose an extraordinary amount of market share with search. As we all know, they're a monopoly in search. Nobody's fucking killing it. I'm big. Maybe a couple people have figured it out. But Google has own search. We're about to go to a new version of search, right? Well, Google did the yellow pages. AI bots are about to do to Google, right? Google isn't just sitting around saying, cool, let's get killed. They're desperate to win. They're smart. They know they're not going to have 95% of the market the way they did in classic search. But they want 50/60. What is Google own? They own Android. There's more Android than iPhones. I actually think you're not going to be able to even open your Android in five years without them forcing you down Gemini. That's how much they need to win. Where is that content going to come from? It's going to come from YouTube and YouTube shorts. So Reddit is standalone over here. And yes, the early portions of LLM models are grabbing a good amount of content from Reddit. If you look carefully over the last couple of updates, it's already starting to decline. How many people here are OG, OG, SEO people from the late 90s, early 2000s? Raise your hands. Just want to say this because actually, can you stand up if you're one of those people? Please just appease me, sir. You, ma'am, I saw you. Just look around. Everyone look at these people's faces. They can tell you what's going to happen in LLM. Thank you. They know that back in a day, we did lots of different things to show up on the first result of Google. But then there be an update, hurricane and tornado, like every couple of months, every couple of years, shit would change. And our best practices would change. Same thing's going to happen here. So yes, I think I read it. By the way, I love Reddit. And I think a good Reddit strategy is good. I just like the double benefit of doing marketing on social that drives sales now and it's contributing to your LLM. And I don't want to assume everyone here has unlimited resources. You know, because I know we don't, you know, six million, three percent. Like, I just know we don't have unlimited resources. So I'm trying to think about what is the packing order. But if you can do everything, do everything. Hi, Gary. Hi. Hi, Robin. I made a clear of the being of money all the way around the social channels. Yep. Makes sense. Makes sense. And so the conversation right away is by feeling and beating my head. The wall is one and over with paying the media, people, or performance advertisers. Because I can't speak in terms of dollars and versus dollars. Well, you can. I just literally, I just literally, I'll tell you, I just literally, I get it, which is why I'm yelling so hard about this. You're now in the game. You sit. If I'm a performance marketer, I'm sitting with you and you're like, organic. And I'm like, but what's, what's the return on investment? You're like, very simple. When you invest, you say to me, very simple. Gary, how much are you spending six million on media? How much are you spending on organic social? Me? Nothing. We're just doing creative for the six million. You're like, Gary, if you give me 600,000, you're now at 5.4. If you post $600,000 worth in a year of organic social, the three to seven best performing creative organic videos and pictures, I'm going to tell you to then slightly, so I'm giving you that. I'm down to 5.4. If I run 5.4 against seven ads that you made that were organic. You made it organic. It's funny. It's pretty. I come back. I add a yellow banner at the end that says, here's free shipping. I change the copy. You say to me, your 5.4 is going to outperform your six because the creative is the variable. Either I believe that or I don't, but that's it. And I would tell you, do not be in the convincing business. Be in the conviction business. Understand what I'm saying and show them examples of it. Like Walgreens sold out of every mango gummy candy by one organic ad. That's real life sales. That's my television work. That's why marketing works. So somebody might be so one dimensional that they don't care about anything, but the math of it all. But more and more people are realizing what I'm talking about in rooms like this. What I just told you is the answer. You will out hack an L.T. V. and Roaz on your 5.4. Gary. If you give me 600,000 and you've got to give me the year to do it because I don't know when the viral hits or the over indexing hits. It's not just virality. If you're a brand that normally gets 800 views per video, if something gets 54,000, that's like a very big jump from what your norm is. And again, I can see by the face as you're catching what I'm putting down. Like, you bring that video back. You slightly convert it. The imagery, the call to action, the first three seconds. Definitely the copy. And you run the ad. And don't forget, you're going to have insights on who saw it organically. This is how you're going to find new customer bases. You're going to make shit. This ad did well in Texas organically. Let me run the ads in Texas against males. So you've just got to explain to them that. And by the way, I'm telling you firmly that that's right. Now, what I don't know, and this is why VaynerMedia doesn't win 100% of the time, is if you can't hit creative pager with the 600,000 I gave you, then you're in trouble. But the thesis is right. Thank you. Everybody, if you enjoyed this podcast, please go back and look at the prior episodes. They're loaded. I appreciate your attention. And thanks for being part of this journey. See you later.