How To Make Millions On Social Media (without selling) with Jason Capital

hates Sharan and if you ever wanted to get a peek behind a social media wizards business today is your lucky day because I sit down with my friend Jason Capital who breaks down exactly how he builds his empire from creating content, enormous amounts of content by positioning the right messages on the right platforms and most importantly listening to this most importantly on how to sell without selling. See it again on how to sell without selling you better grab your notebook for this one because Jason and I go into some extreme tactics and you're going to love this episode with my friend Jason Capital. One thing is for certain just because it's tried and true doesn't mean it's working right now. So the big question is this where can you learn what is working right now? The strategies, the tactics, the psychology and the exact how to how to go your business, how to blow up your personal brand and supercharge your personal growth. That is the question and this podcast will give you the answer. My name is Sharan Srivata and welcome to Business School. So Jason one of the things that we talk about often which you taught me was this idea of one arrow not 10. We actually recorded like an entire episode on it and I'll tell you the simplicity of that has me going every time every time I write an email I'm like I don't need four paragraphs. Every time I'm on stage I'm like I don't need 18 slides and where did you pick that up? How did that kind of come about for you because I've seen over the years you've gotten tighter and tighter with your messaging. So I'd love for you to like unpack this one arrow not 10 and maybe talk a little bit about that. Yeah so three years ago I was doing a master man with all my members who were in LA. One of my members had started doing really well. His name is Anton and Anton was 25 or 26 and was making like 30 to 40 thousand dollars a month like take home each month which is great. You're 25, 26. Very happy and he was one of our top students in the group and he goes Jason now that you know I'm here what's like the next thing I need to work on like what where do I need to go from here and I told him I go dude I've seen your ads your offers your marketing stuff and I go I just made some shit up I was like one arrow not 10 and he was like what do you mean now I was like when you share your message you use 10 arrows to hit the bullseye right now you need to get so good that you only need one arrow and you can the bullseye every time and he was like oh I get it and his thing was when I would watch his ads Facebook ads videos and stuff is there is just so much fluff there's a lot of rambling all over the place and you know trying to if you look at wistio videos or you know watch rates on youtube anything you can always see we also the same trend where it just starts to go down immediately when someone watches the video and then it just it's a downward curve all the way to the end and you end up with 15 to 30 percent of people who actually watch the whole video and if if you go back and you look at well where the biggest drop-off points it's usually like well one why do people drop off it's because you've lost their interest and why have you lost your interest because you're rambling you're talking about something that isn't relevant to them and the minute it's not relevant to them they're they're out they have 80 million other options and other competitors vying for their attention in addition to you and so how can you say what you need to say in one arrow and not 10 because it's like there's this Dean Jackson talks about this New York Times article and the headline was the tyranny of convenience and how we as a society we keep making innovations in convenience and every time we make a new innovation in convenience we never we'll never go back to the old way it was at first you know we would call for a taxi and then they came up with Uber and now you post a button on your phone and a car appears that's more convenient than calling and waiting for a taxi we so I know one gets taxes anymore we won't go back to it because it's more convenient and I because of that people just they prioritize convenience and if your messaging is inconvenient in any way they're out and what I mean by that isn't like an inconvenient truth like Alchor I don't mean it's inconvenient that way I mean it's inconvenient as in you make them wait or you leave them boring or you leave them uninterested that's inconvenient or friction in some way and if that happens there out and so all the rambling all the fluff it's all inconvenient to the viewer and they're going to be out and so getting really tight with your message being what hit in one arrow now 10 is I as huge and dude it's you know I'm like a lifelong student I cousin everything I'm always working on it myself if you watch you know don't watch the media but I was going to say if you watch the media they're really good at getting a message in a very short yeah you danced like one arrow because you know they I mean they've really really good writers who are writing that stuff for them but that's a it's a good example there's all there's you know I think of it like Jerry Seinfeld with his skits and how you know he'll he'll work out one joke for like three years before he tells it because it first 10 arrows to get the point across three years later it's one arrow you know it's interesting because I don't know why people think that they're like well you're Jason Capel you write a lot it's easy for you and I tell people that even today like when I write an email to investors or I'm writing an email to the entire company I'll write a draft and I'll send it to my partner and I think it's totally okay to in fact I think it's a requirement if you're a writer or if you're a thinker or creator we should work in drafts you're not going to be able to produce something perfect every single time especially if it's of insane importance and so people have no idea how many drafts like I've been said like you and I when we write stuff I'm like hey can you look at this like we we do we go through a lot of drafts what are your thoughts around when you write something do you like do you actually see hey I've got seven arrows in here I can actually reduce these or how do you think about kind of the draft refinement process yeah so I think that the best messages are rewritten not written right and so are the best speeches that's an old it's an old day of Carnegie line where you'd say the best speeches are the rewritten not written and I think messages are the exact same way I edit stuff a lot I will a lot of times I'll say it out loud after I write it and I can I can hear fluff you know I can hear bullshit or friction or whiskers and I try and get rid of it I also think about um John Keats a little bit I call it the Keats trick in my brand John Keats was this poet and I don't know anything about poetry so I want anyone to think I'm like very well first individual I'm not all right but I do know that he he wrote some of the longest poems of all time and what he found was that if he his trick was he just had to keep writing and writing and writing because the good stuff would come out after the bad stuff so he was like I can't I can't stop writing because if I stop writing I won't get the good stuff so he's just like I'm gonna write and write and write and then some of it just comes out just happens to be better because I momentum and I'm more warm and so I true when I'm speaking or when I'm writing I always think about that that I want to keep working on and getting it out and getting it out because somewhere in there the one arrow is going to appear and then it's my job to identify it and remove everything else yeah do you believe that there's a lot of schools of thought on social media especially right now where you say volume is better than kind of trying to get your perfect post out what are your thoughts around because because you literally did you you own you own the social sphere it is like I can go nowhere without just like and your team like I am I'm on all kinds of Jason Gavel retarget it is so good and I look and I look and read and listen to everything you put out because one it's context for me because I know that hey when I learn from you to when you and I chat I'm like hey how do we build on that but take this one arrow not 10 concept how do you think about kind of creating material your content for social media do you believe that there is a you put more out and you'll figure out a path do you believe that they had to edit before you put it out where do you fall on that spectrum I just I just finished the Bill Gates biography I never read before and he was like famous for the term vaporware right which is where he puts out a product that's not basically created or good and he lets the marketplace tell him what sucks and they go back and they fix it and I kind of think about our content the same way where I'm just like let's just put everything out there and they'll tell us what they like and then we'll just do more of that so it's a me it is a volume game like right now dude we're posting 10 times a day on TikTok so which is which is a ton of volume I look at it as like very very cheap digital real estate and I want to pop as much as I can so that's why we're doing 10 times a day there but to me it's totally volume there's no such thing as a perfect post if there is I'd love to see it because I haven't seen it and it's it's just like let's just put it as much as we can out there because of algorithms they reward they reward new anyways right so like even if you had the perfect post on sunday you still got a post another perfect post somehow on Monday and it's probably not going to happen right so to me it's just about like get the post and like get your 10,000 posts in there and I promise you after 10,000 you're going to be pretty good at knowing which your audience likes but they don't like you know it's it's so I love the the the algorithm rewards new like that's that's a really good one right the the one thing that you talk a lot about is kind of this development of these skills and I want to go a little bit into that because people think that when they think content creation I don't know why they instantly go to skills that don't matter they're like okay okay well I don't have someone to edit this video this post doesn't look good it's it's all about the it's the the the the peripheral mechanics of the post and they're saying well that is that is kind of put up on this pedestal as a skill of content creation which is crazy and it's not an income or a high income. skill at all. So when someone tells you, hey, I can't get this out because I don't have the ability to get a videographer, get it edited, get it that, that compared to like the high income skills when someone tells you that they're not getting stuff out because of these, you know, kind of mechanical skills. How do you, how do you kind of coach them out of that place? Yeah. I usually just tell them that like, hey, if you're afraid, then just tell me you're afraid, but don't lie to me, right? And that's really the truth. I think that if someone is like, well, I don't have the right phone, my video sucks, or it takes too long to upload it. I don't know, should I post to all of them so I didn't post to any of them or that kind of stuff. The audio is not good. They're all just excuses because you're afraid, most likely of what your friends and family are going to think when they see this content. And so once I tell them that, I'm like, just, just post it, right? And understand that everyone sucks. And it's really helpful once you realize, every, every one sucks when they start, right? And so the idea is you're going to suck. So it's like, there's no expectation. It's not going to be good anyways. Like your mom is going to think you're trying to be someone you're not. Your dad is going to tell you you should have stayed in school and your friends are going to tell you that you are lying and you're trying to look cooler than you are. Great. So now that you know all those things are going to happen, that's just post. Right? Let's just let's just let's just do it. Right? It's going to like, so if you post those are the things that are going to happen. Those are the bad things. If you don't post, you're going to get stuck watching your competitors rise in the industry while you sit and comment and criticize and grow more and more resentful of yourself for not doing what you wanted to do or living up to your potential. So you're either going to be really, really resentful of yourself and others or your mom and dad are going to make a few snap comments and then your life's going to go on and you're going to build a great business. Like, which one sounds better to you? Right? So let's let's just suck and let's post and then just on like once I think once we understand that you're just going to suck at the beginning that you just start posting and sucking and posting and sucking and eventually you don't totally suck and that's the point where people actually start like commenting and liking and engaging. There's this model. I don't know if you've ever seen it before where it's like a it's like a you and it's like the five stages of emotional behavioral change. We've ever seen this one where it's not so the first stage is is uninformed optimism. So I'm you know, I'm talking about so I'm really excited. Right? I'm really excited. This is going to be great because I don't know how hard it actually is. The next stage is informed pessimism. Oh shit. This is way harder than I thought it was going to be. I don't know if I can do this. Third phase is the value of despair. I can't do this. The hardest thing I've ever done. There's no way it's going to work. I'm out. You keep going after that. Then you get to informed optimism. You go, Oh, this is really hard, but I can actually make progress on this. I can guys and I can get better. This is great. This stage of keep going is success. Problem is, most people they go through those first three phases in a circle. They just keep going. So it's informed optimism. All this is going to be great. Uninformed or informed pessimism. Shit, this is way harder. I don't know if I can do it. Valley of despair. I can't do it. I give up. And then they go back and they get another shiny object. Yeah. Now they have informed optimism again. And they spend their entire life cycling through those things never making any progress. And it's like, if you can just, if you knew that on the other side of the valley of despair was success, you won't continue to give up. And so I think people just get a clear picture of the map. Then they feel like they'd more control and they actually will take the actions that they need to. This is so crazy. So I got to tell you the story. You taught me this. And you said, Hey, you've got all this b-roll. Go ahead and tell your editor. Take this b-roll. I record a really great message on top of it so that people see the CU live on stage or wherever, but you have a great message on top of the b-roll. And post that and that became the video. So I did a whole series of those on my Instagram. People can go watch it. I'll link it below. But the crazy part is I was talking to my mastermind group and they're like, oh yeah, and I'm telling them the story. They're like, well, yeah, of course, you know, you talked to Jason. Jason told you that you executed because you have the team. And I told them, well, here's what you don't understand. I go into my Instagram. I click insights. I screenshot the insights of that post. And then the next post was a throwback Thursday post of me two years old. Had nothing on it. It was a black and white photo. There's nothing on it. But I wrote like seven ways, like some kind of caption where I wrote like a story about, hey, seven ways to get out of being in a funk or something like that. It was like seven X better engagement on that post. So I just tell people, yeah, I had this. Yeah, Jason taught me this. I did it. It was good. But please understand that what you're saying that you can't do is what I did. But my TBT post with me of a picture or two years old with a caption that you could have written got like seven times more engagement and silence in the room, right? Like silence. Which takes me to my next question, which is you give people a roadmap often, especially your members, your clients, your students, and you say, listen, if you're not focused on generating and creating one of these skills for yourself as in high income skills, we call them create a baseline for those, then you're kind of playing with the shiny objects. How did you kind of happen upon first, what are they? What are these skills that are high income skills? And how did you happen upon them and kind of codify these so that you can you can teach those? The high income skills that I talk about big three are copy closing speaking, copy, copy writing, like the words you used to persuade and motivate to sell, closing the ability to convert prospect to customer and then speaking, right? The ability to communicate your message on video or in person or in conversation. Those are the big three high income skills. There are more for the people out there who are like, well, what about this and what about yes, networking and negotiation and coding? They're all hot. Yes, they're just the big three copy closing speaking to me because I feel like if someone is proficient at even just one of those, they will not go hungry. You'll be able to sell, you'll be able to create an income for yourself and the digital economy that we live in today. The way I happened to bond them, dude, is I'm just I'm not blind, right? I don't know how else to say it. Like I'm not blind. And if I look at I look at all the people when I was even 20 years old and I'm at Michigan State University and I'm trying to figure out how do I build an income for myself that doesn't rely on having a boss or a job and I looked at the people I knew who were making money on the internet. Greg Valentine, Pedro Scullian, Joel Marion, people like that. And I was like, what do they all have in common? They'll get sell and speak and write their ass off. That was it. And I was like, I'm just going to get good at those skills and I bet you I'll make money too. And that was literally that was it. It was probably Joel the most who just beat Kappy into my head so much because he was so much about it. And really like there's nothing else to it other than that. It's just Kappy. Because to me, there's like there's so many opportunity vehicles that are offered to the business opportunity crowd today. You can do forex or penny stocks or Shopify or social media boss or become a closer like there's all these different vehicles. People can drive to achieve their 10k a month from home dream or whatever it is. And they're all fine and they all can work. But none of them will work if the person doesn't have the skills that we're talking about here. So I was like, what is the thing I can teach that will really allow people to succeed no matter what vehicle they choose. And to me, it's it's copycodes speaking. And the one thing that people don't realize also is that there's a cadence of those, right? Especially like you and I you and I really align on the daily emails. People will tell me often and they say, well, you can't be in people's inboxes every day. They don't realize that you you condition them to wanting to have you in their inbox every single day. There was there was a couple days when like I missed. So I had I scheduled it. Normally I scheduled my emails for, you know, kind of like 7 a.m. Pacific time. I by mistake scheduled it for 7 p.m. one day. And I got hundreds of emails saying, did you take me off the list? What happened? Because I by mistake, they didn't get their morning email. And but people don't realize they're like, well, you can write email. I was like, you don't realize I've written 2, 3000 emails like thousands. I yes, I can bang anything out because that forms in your head. But there's a cadence of like the development of the skill. Like you said, there's guys and there's a guy's into it. It's not like you know how to write copy. So it's done. That doesn't works. How much like just say, let's take writing for just a second before I want to go deeper on one thing. How much like what is your writing practice? Do you write daily? How do you how do you kind of devote time to writing? Do you just write? Do you think and write? Do you actually talk and write? What is your kind of mechanics for getting words on paper? Yeah. So first of all, your emails are great. Like they are. I appreciate it. Thank you. Yeah. But that said, I don't know what they were like when you first started. Right. And my guess is they weren't what they are today. Oh, yeah. And it's so we all get better and we all again, we all suck when we start. I just I just I just wonder if you will get from this. It's that you suck it. It's okay. Like that. That's a really I hope everyone gets that. For me, Srin, when I first met you, I was wrapping up my dating business. I'd like just finished it, right? But before that, the previous five years, I had built a very successful dating advice business for men that was based entirely on a daily email that went out. And it started in late 2012 and everyone in my industry would send these emails where it was just pitch, pitch, pitch every day. I miss all this affiliate offer. So that affiliate offer. And I was like, I bet if I like write a product every day and I give it away for free, this is going to create some noise. And I'll stand out like a sore thumb. And so the emails out of right in dating became like two to three thousand words a day. These were like incredible. These are products that really get people getting for free and emails. There were subhead lines. They were formatted. like there was, there was like a sales letter every day, but it was content. And I did that for five years. I don't know how many letters I wrote, or emails I wrote in total, but I hadn't printed out once, and they filled an entire closet, like stacked, and we saw tons more boxes of just these giant binders filled with the printed emails. My point was there was a cadence. The cadence was daily, and it was Sunday's included. I would just write that daily email first thing every morning. And so that's how I got good at writing. That it was that. And the best part about it was when I wrote those, there's always a call to action in those emails. Like I would never send an email without a call to action that would just be selfish for me. That would be rude. I wouldn't do that to the reader. But I could send out the email, and then in the first three hours, I could check click bank, and I could see how well the email did. And so there was an instant feedback loop from my writing to how much money it made. And so every day I could course correct more of this, less of that. And so the writing got tighter and tighter. If someone is a copywriter who writes for clients, you don't have a daily feedback loop from copy to sale. You may give them a VSL or a webinar. They won't test it for a month, and then you won't get stats back for another month. So you wrote it in January, but you don't even know how well it did until March. And so you don't know from January to March, if all this stuff you're doing is optimal or not. So there's this huge advantage with daily email where you sell or a daily something where you sell because you get instant feedback on what the marketplace likes, and what they don't. Today at this point, it'd be perfectly honest around, I don't even write anymore. And I've written a couple books in the last year. And for the writing like that, like that was, I don't know, it's pretty easy for me, but what I like to do is just speaking. I very much like to speak. And if there's one skill I can do to work on more and more, it is speaking because it's just such a time saver, dude. If I can get a message out that's powerful and effective and does the job, that I can get it out in like five minutes, instead of writing it for an hour, well now I have an extra 55 minutes that I can allocate to something else. So I think the skill of speaking is so important. I remember years ago, someone told me, and I don't know if it's true or not, but I believe it's true because it motivates me, is that they said, Jay Abraham gets $100,000 to write a sales letter for a client. And this was, I don't know, five years ago or something. And I was like, to me, back then, I'm like, that is insane. Yeah, 100 grand, right? And they're going, yeah, and he doesn't even write it. What are you talking about? He doesn't write it. Here's what he does. He walks in circles around his office and he speaks the whole sales letter from top to bottom, recorded, and then it's transcribed, and copy editor just finishes it up, and the sales letter's done. He'll write the $100,000 sales letter in less than an hour, just speaking it, the whole thing. It's like just giving a speech, that's it. And I was like, that's one that's incredible, but two, I want that skill. Because for every other copywriter who gets a hundred grand, it takes me three weeks of research. Yeah. He can get that done. Like, he get it done in an hour, right? And there's no reason I can't learn how to do the same thing, whether it's a sales letter, whether it's a speech, whether it's an Instagram video, whatever it is, like how else would I be able to post 10 times a day on TikTok if I hadn't continued to Kaizen, the skill of speaking? Right. Right. It's just not possible in terms of volume or breadth. So I'll play the answers to the question. No, it's so good because I'll tell you tactically what I've been doing, which is, I have been waking up really early, when, as you know, I'm an early riser, and I have been trying to force myself to, not force, I enjoy these walks, I just walk by myself. And it's gonna, with, I call it by yourself, with yourself, right? So there is, it's by yourself. So I don't have a podcast or anything on, I'm by myself, but I'm also with myself. So I'm not, I don't have anyone else in my ear. And what I do now is I just have the Rev.com app, which is just a transcribing app. And I literally talk into this app. And when I'm done and I get home, there's a transcribed version of whatever I talk. So like, like you always, you told me, you can, if you got copy, speaking, and closing, I nailed with the speaking, I've nailed two out of the three instantly. So now I actually have whatever I talked about in written form, I can just give it to, you know, as a Clara or someone like that to clean it up and my stuff's done. And even for me, I can copy paste that into a caption of an Instagram post. Instantly, which has been super powerful, but I've realized that one, the other thing also, a lot of people don't realize is as the world, like you said, one error, not 10, as the world's gotten tighter in how they listened to stuff, they are a lot more forgiving to conversational writing than they are to formal writing. So when you speak, it's very hard to speak in a, well, I'm going to certify, you don't say like weird, you don't, you don't speak the way you write. So now actually, I actually think speaking, you write better, you write good or whatever. You write better. And so now it becomes a lot more conversational. So when someone's reading it, they almost have you in their ear, which is very, very cool. Yeah, and that's, that's copy, right? Copy is right like you talk. That's like the whole rules, right? Like you talking copy and you're exactly right with social media. That's, that's how the majority audience in social media wants to consume content in such a way where it doesn't sound formal. It doesn't sound forced. It doesn't sound polished or inauthentic. It's just, you're just being fucking real and you're just talking like that's what they were. Yeah, with the social media stuff, you spend, you know, you have several kind of coaching training programs on social media, writing, copy, in all the three high income skills. But something is super fascinating over the last few years. You've found, like I've seen that you've taken, while everybody has ramped up their sales. And here's the interesting part. When people sell us on TV, between, you watch a episode of Friends and for 22 minutes, and then they sell you for advertisements for eight minutes, we don't get mad at that. On radio, there's more ads on radio than there is radio, even when you're in the car, even in, you know, serious FM, whatever, we don't get mad about that. We open a newspaper or a magazine, and we see advertisements all over, we don't get mad about that. But we get mad when ads are on our social feed. That I don't understand, right? Like we, that just fascinates me that, that we get mad about that stuff. But you've taken a completely different turn to like, hey, quote, selling on social, and you've kind of like turned it on its head where you're like, maybe I don't sell in public anymore. And when you first introduced me that I was like, wait, he's right, like I haven't seen a funnel or a pitch or a go buy this for, I don't know how long. And I actually think Jason that that is directly correlated to all your kind of audience and engagement growth because people don't feel like you're going to shove something down their throat. So what was the change in kind of the selling, sharing, pitching philosophy? Yeah, yeah. So a couple of years ago, I was with Talkie Moore, and Talkie said one of his principles of marketing was given public ask in private. And I was like, that it makes perfect sense. But how do you possibly do that? Because you need funnels or webinars or stuff. And that stuff is public. Like how could you not do that? And what I realized is, well, if I'm posting all this content, but there's nowhere on the internet, there's no evidence of Jason Capital selling publicly. Right, so it's just give, give, give. Like it looks very-- So awesome. It looks like that. Then I'm like the benevolent king who just-- Yeah. The life-giving king who just gives and gives and gives, and never asks in public. And that's a really, really, really good position to have in the marketplace. And all I need to do is just figure out a way where I could convert people in private. And I think about like Tony Robbins. And as far as coaches go, Tony Robbins makes more money than I think any coach in the planet. I'm sure there's some secret one we don't know who's just amazing, but Tony Robbins is pretty much the wealthiest coach there is. And Tony never sells in public either. He just gives and he gives and he gives. How does he do that? He has a massive phone center, or multiple ones, across the country, where he has his sales people on the phone who are selling one to one behind the scenes. So he's just giving and giving and giving. And that's all his lead gen. And then they get you on an intake form with a phone call and a strategy session with a coach. And that happens privately. So to the public, he's just giving and giving and giving. But secretly behind the scenes, there is a ton of money being made. But it's all happening in one-on-one atmosphere. Right, everyone in marketing, they have sales pages and things like that, a webinar follows. And all that stuff just smells scammy. It just does. There's no other way around it. It works and it makes money and I get it. And I have them. They're out there. I know you can't Google them, sure. But they're out there with the sales pages and webinars. Like we use them because they work and they're great. But on social media, I don't send traffic to them. I don't promote them. I just want to give. So we do the same thing, whether it's driving leads to phone calls or leads to just private conversations over email or text or whatever it is. But we always do it one-on-one. My whole thing is, I think a lot about Dean Jackson's 85, 15 rule where he says, do you know what I'm talking about? Where he is some study he quotes. Oh, the bundle of lead study. Yeah, the 100 leads, right? Where at any given time, 100 people in your marketplace, 50 of them will not buy from you. They will not buy from your competitors. Don't worry about them. Of the remaining 50, 7 and 1/2 of them will buy right now. And 42.5 of them will buy between 90 days and 18 months. Right? And so that means out of every 100, there's 7 to 8, let's say people who would buy from you today if the environment and the whole thing went right. So my goal is, well, let's just give and give and give. And then let those 7 or 8 people raise their hand for us today. And then we'll talk to them privately. And we'll just sign them up today. And we'll just keep doing that every day. So every day, I just want to go out there and say, where am I 7 or 8? Out of every 100, who are you guys? - Yep, hit me up and let's do this privately. And so it's just doing that each day. And that way you're not selling the other 92 people who don't want to be sold today. So you maintain a great relationship with them. And those who do want to buy, you're not frustrating them because you're there to take their money and give them more value in return. - So let's talk about this mechanically, right? So if I am, see I'm a consultant or a coach or a copywriter or what, you know, and I'm selling or I am, my services and my expertise are for higher. Well, let's say that. How do I, just how, like on an Instagram platform, how do I give and then in public, but what mechanics can I use to actually quote, sell or qualify in private? - Yeah, so I always start with the call to action kind of working backwards and then go forwards to whatever the content's gonna be. And I think every call to action to get people to raise their hand needs to have a big idea. The same way a sales campaign or promotion needs to have a big idea. I see this a lot of people who do like cold outreach trying to get clients. Their cold outreach is just, hello Mrs. Madame, whatever. I do this. I help these people solve this problem. I noticed you did this poorly on your website. I'm the expert in that. I'd love to help you fix it if you're up for a 10 minute chat et cetera. Feel free to pick a time, A or B option, whatever the hell they do, right? - Yeah. - And that's how so much this cold outreach goes. And it has an incredibly low response rate and conversion rate 'cause it's got no big idea. It's super boring and it sounds like everyone else. So I want everyone's call to actions to be injected with the big idea. So an example would be, let's say you post, you're a, let's say you're a copywriter you're looking for clients. So you make a post about the worst, the three worst subject lines of all time, right? Never do these three things here subject lines. And then you give and you give and you give. And at the end you say, hey, by the way, I recently, I recently, I don't want to say fired, but I recently ended a relationship with one of my clients. Frankly, because we had a campaign, I wrote for them that was making a bunch of money, but they actually turned it off because they couldn't manage their own business and so they couldn't handle the customers. And so I've roomed now for one more client and normally my fees would be up here. But with this next client, I want to get a really good result and then be able to add it to my portfolio. So there's going to be a big, big discount on this one. So if you want to be my next client, as part of this kind of case study or this portfolio generating activity I'm doing, just message me this word and then I'll get to you all the details and we'll see if we're fit, right? So now there's a big idea, oh, this is great. And we get a discount, we get a deal because and anyone's made sure I get a great result for his portfolio and there's urgency, there's all this other stuff in it. And the most important part I think is also making it easy for prospects to say yes. And I think a lot of people create friction unknowingly. So the simple one that an example we just gave is like, you tell them what word to send, right? 'Cause literally there are people who would want to message you but won't message you because you didn't tell them what word to say. They don't know, do I say hello, do I introduce myself? Do I ask them how, what should I say? And because they don't know what to say, it's hard for them to respond. So they just, they won't. So everything with our stuff is how can we make it as easy as possible for prospects to respond? 'Cause if it's just the rule of marketing, especially online, the lower the friction, the higher the response rate. - Yeah, and I think a lot of folks, especially traditional sales. And I really hope if that's you you're listening, is I see, call the real estate agent, the insurance broker, the mortgage broker, et cetera. Everything from flyers to bus benches will put their big phone number and say, call me. And people don't realize that even educated people like in you and I will say something like, what do I say? I call and say, hi Jason, I was stalking you. Like, it's weird. What do you say? Hi Jason, I saw your, I saw your number on a bus bench. That's weird. Like, that's weird to say. Even I don't wanna say that, right? - It sounds like you're doing something wrong or something. - Totally. And since they don't wanna say that, they don't wanna put themselves in a situation that is like that. So I always tell people, hey, listen, always think about it when if it's uncomfortable for you and uncomfortable for them, then you probably shouldn't do it. Like, you called call somebody. It's uncomfortable for you. And it's uncomfortable for them to receive the call too. Like, you should not do that. That makes no sense whatsoever. The only two situations are, if it's uncomfortable for you, I'm uncomfortable for them. Hey, I'm okay with that. That you need to get over it. But let's find a way where you can say, hey, I have this case study. I got one room open. I won't do this discount. It's comfortable for you to say this 'cause you feel integrity. Hey, if this is of interest message me the word tiger 'cause I love you. You do the picture of the tiger. Message me the word tiger, but I'll get you all the details. Now, I'm comfortable doing it. And others are not. So the question Jason is, how do you do it in a platform that is not conducive to like either a quick message? Or so like, how do you do it on email? Or maybe on like a TikTok or you can direct message? How do you do it on a platform which doesn't easily allow for like a quick direct message? - So to me, email definitely allows for a quick reply. I think that's how you do an email. It's just, hey, reply it and just put this word. And then my team will take it from there. That's another part. Also, it's telling them, like, so you're gonna tell them a word to message you or just say this, call this number and just say this or something like that. It's telling what happens after they do that also. 'Cause it takes away that fear as well. I always use the example of imagine you're walking down a busy street in New York City, pre-COVID and there's a guy on the street and he's like a street performer and he's like, hey, I got a box here, put your hand in the box and you're like, I'm not putting my hand in that box. And he's like, no, trust me, it's cool. And he opens the box and he shows you it's a stickers bar inside. That's it. And he calls it, he's like, put your hand in the box. You're like, this is weird, but I like stickers. So, okay, I'm in. So you do it and you get stickers, right? And everything's cool. Well, you as a marketer when you're like, just hit reply and let me know, you're basically saying, hey, put your hand in this box. 'Cause you don't know what's gonna happen after your hand is in the box or after you hit reply. So just what we literally say is just do this and we'll get to all the details. That's all you have to say. But to me, it makes a really big difference. It stands here a question though. Like on TikTok, right? TikTok DM sucks. We've done a lot of experimentation with it. It's awful. It sucks. So what we do, at least for now on TikTok, is we send them to many chat. So we can talk to them on Facebook, message, or as well. - God, yeah. So you're saying, hey, listen, regardless of the platform, create a non or a very low friction way of them engaging in a conversation. - Yeah, that's it. I just want conversations. Like you've heard a million people say, conversions happen in conversations. And it's really is like the more conversations you are having the more money you're firmer, your company is gonna make a period. You know, a really good metric, like lead measure to look at your business is how many conversations that we have today. Because it's a really good indicator of how well you're doing or not. And the whole goal of marketing is to generate conversations because those conversations will lead to sales. - So this is fascinating because so now we have this, you know, giving, giving content-based play. And then we have this time when you're actually kind of making a call to action or a case study or something like that. Is there any kind of golden ratio for how you content versus a call to action? How do you think about that? - Yeah, I mean, everyone wants the golden ratio on the here's the commandments, right? I don't know what it is. I can tell, it's like a gut feeling. You know when you're asking too often or too much, right? It's like, do you remember, I don't know who said it, but I think it was someone on the Supreme Court like years ago was like, how do you define porn? He was like, you know, I don't know, but you know it when you see it, right? (laughing) It's kind of like that where you know when you're pitching too much. My suggestion is to always just over index on giving. And that's, I mean, like let's say right now, you're doing like three gives for every ask and that's a fine ratio. But it still feels a little off to you. What's the cost if you're really giving one more time each day? Like is it really that hard? I get to read, especially if you batch it and you chunk it in the right way so you get it all done at once. Like it's really not that hard. I will tell you this, our ratio on TikTok is nine to one right now. So we post 10 times a day and it's nine gives and it's one ask each day. And to be weird on TikTok, a lot of times our asks get more views than our gifts. So weird. Like most of the time I would say. So in the GIVs, I find a lot of people, especially who are quote experts, right? They're giving their services for higher expertise, for higher copywriters, consultants, coaches, et cetera. And the number one pushback for some strange reason that I get is, well, what if I just gave this all away then I am giving away all my IP, I'm giving away all my best ideas for free on the internet? Why would they hire me if I just gave them all away? How do you, like what's your kind of broad daughter on that? Just give them the what and not the how. So let's explain that for a second. Sure. So when I, for instance, when I teach speaking, I have a few principles that I'm always going to teach when I teach speaking. Like my three rules, right? When I go on stage, I have three rules. Rule number one, this is my house, right? So I said the rules, but you're my guest. I want to make you feel welcome and good. And I want to take care of you, right? So that's rule number one. Rule number two is what's in it for me radio. So I always want to make sure everything I'm talking about is relevant to you. And I keep reminding you of how this has been official for you. Here's the good that happens. If you listen to what I say, here's the bad if you don't. And then rule three is breathe life. Meaning my only criteria for success when I speak is am I going to breathe life into the audience or not? I don't care if they say make all this money or save all it's like that stuff's a bonus. But if I breathe life into these people, and I inspire them and they leave here better than when they came in, that was successful speech for me. And I'm happy. It was my only through rules. And if you can follow those three rules when you get talks or videos. videos you're going to do much, much better. Right? So the person listening to all that is like, wow, that was really useful. Thank you, Jason. Yet I didn't tell you how the fuck to give it to all that off. It's so good. Right. Yeah. That's the what, not the how. The what is usually principles, the how is like the formula. Do you think that a lot of folks struggle with that? And as you were saying that I was thinking about a few things, do you think the reason why people struggle with that is they are such technicians that they know the how they haven't had any, they haven't had a chance to actually stop and think about their principles and think about the what. Yeah. I think I think you are totally right. Most people don't stop and think about why they do what they do. Right. They just know how to do it. They don't want to talk about it. Some people even have this superstitious belief, like if I think too much about how what I'm doing that I won't be able to do it as well. Right. Which is just nonsense. What I do is last year, so I'm in Puerto Rico right now, about 30 minutes from San Juan. And last year, I took, I was really inspired by Bill Gates in his think weeks and I was like, I got to do one. And so I went and got a room at the St. Regis on the other side of the island here in Puerto Rico, just for three days, that whole week. And I brought pink sheets with me. Right. So we've talked about pink sheets before and on Unite privately, where a pink sheet kind of forces you to reverse engineer your rules and your principles for all the key things. And my goal was to kind of reverse engineer and codify everything I teach and copy closing speaking and put each one into a pink sheet. And I ended up creating I think 26 in-depth pink sheets in three days while I was out there. And from sun up till sundown, that's all I did. I stayed in the room all day. I got eight my lunch from room service while I was working there. I literally left to go to the gym and came right back. It was 14 hours a day for three days straight. And it was the coolest thing. Shroud because by like day two, no phone, no internet, no Slack, no email, no text, none of it. I just pink sheet, pink sheet, pink sheet and research that by like pink sheet number nine or something, I was in such a deep flow that my stories and the quotes and the metaphors and the rules and the names of the principles was just like it was it was just coming out of me and it was just so it was so nice. It felt great. I and you know, I think I maybe created like five or six pink sheets on day one and then like 10 or 11 on day three because you just start really getting into it. So if I really recommend people take take like a weekend and get away from the computer stuff and just like there's a book by a guy named Matt Church called pink sheets read it. You'll understand the formula. Yeah. It's online. It's free and and then reverse engineer and codify what it is that you do so you can extract all the what and all the principles. And now every time I need to teach a webinar, I need to go on stage, I need to teach anything. I have just a whole stack of pink sheets and I'm like, what I want to teach today? I just pick out a sheet. We'll get it for three seconds and now I have amazing content that I can share in a way that's easily digestible for people and and sticks to the rib, right? It's something that I'm remembering. That's so good. You know, I always I always say, well, how can people find you? But if that's crazy because wherever you look, there's a lot of. Yeah. But if you had if you had a choice of where people go, how they kind of get into your universe, how they can connect more with you, how they can learn more from you. Where where do you? Where would you like to direct them? Totally. So Instagram is the best place to get at me. It's just at Jason Capital. And I will tell you the shron. So it's June 1st, 2020 that we are recording this today on Friday this week. We are starting a new test with our Instagram where we have created Jason Capital Espinuel. And wow. We are going to basically everything I've done in English. We're going to just go crazy with subtitles and do everything in Spanish and see what I can do for all the Spanish speaking people out there. So if you are Spanish and you want to follow me, go to Jason Capital Espinuel in the tree English. You know, we're fine. So good. Hey, man. Listen, I over the years, you've been not only a friend, but an awesome mentor to me. I've learned so much. Just watching what you do, being on your stage, speaking to your audience. And if anyone's ever not experienced that live, kind of electrifying event they should at some point. But I can't thank you enough for being on for dropping so many gems. And especially this was it was not just a, I think people got a ton of one arrows today, which I thought is amazing. So thank you so much for being on today. Dude, thank you so much for having me and for teaching me a big mentor me as much as if anything that I've done for you. You've you've helped me remember listening shron. You've helped me so much with understanding the financial part of business and financial literacy and deal making and negotiation, all this stuff that copy closing, speaking, doesn't entail that I should have known, but didn't. And I don't know how much money you've saved me in all the years, just with all your help. So thank you too. Hey, shron. I have a cool gift for you. I took some of my best ideas from the last 20 years and created a five day MBA. It's quick connection packed that you could listen to on the go, just like this podcast. And I want to give it to you for free. Just as a thank you for listening to the show. No fluff, no gimmicks, just pure actionable ideas for you to use instantly. You can grab it right now at businessschoolshow.com. That's businessschoolshow.com.