How to Make AI UGC Ads in 2026: Sora 2, Claude and the Full Workflow

What I will run through is like the workflow I used to create this video because I think people may want to start utilizing this Did you see the Sam Altman Claude back clash on Twitter salty Sam. Yeah That's what I call him now. I can see I call him He's known to buy he's no it's had a few instances of this where he's like been Certain things he definitely throws his toys out the prime doesn't he? I think it feels to me like entitlement because you know there was a there was a period where open AI were just very clearly dominating the Consumer AI LLM market, but that is very much changed now But yeah, give some context on on what this is and what happened Well, yeah, I think the anthropic run a series of of ads about Claude right for taking shots that for the taking a few shots at open AI over the last six months the main just like Narrative behind it was like that I'm topping and never gonna run ads on their platform because they're serving a different customer, but also they just Don't believe it. It being like an optimal experience for them. Yeah, and it's very timely because it was very soon after Open AI introduced ads to their platform very quick and the ads are really funny. I like the body builder one where he's on the pull-up bar Yeah, yeah, the gym super bowl as well, so yeah, the joke the joke essentially is like it it brings it almost Like recreates what the chat would look like with yourself and the LLM but in real life, so you might have a therapist speaking to a woman about her her troubles and it feels it feels very dry in the sense that it may do when you're speaking directly to AI And then it just is interrupted with The the therapist as an example just suddenly trying to chill some form of product or as part of an avatar That's really good really good execution. There wasn't many good super ads this year. I don't I don't think there's quite a lot of films where that's like Standard right, but yeah, I'm not actually see I've not watched many of them I know I saw was it the Pringles did one with Sabrina Carpenter. Yeah I don't think but that's the point like not there is no like big viral moments I think this for me they want that but it like the anthropic one was probably the The one that felt most viral but It wasn't Maybe that's just because we're in this niche bubble. Yeah It does feel though like there's more we're more consistent Consistently breaking through or transcending D to see Twitter and Yeah, or not they're so D to see Twitter, but like yeah ecommerce Twitter and Superbowl ads like similarly last year with Hexclad one. Yeah, yeah I think two other things I've seen from these big frontier labs one was Dependent on thing. Did you see that? Yeah, yeah, yeah, where the anthropic asked the US Pent the US like CIA if they were how they were using anthropic But that is that in itself was a security risk because they knew that they were using it for certain things So that's started a whole like debate I think of around the security of using these models and Then obviously open AI also bought open claw Which I haven't actually used that much yet. I've played around with it But haven't used it extensively of you. No, I haven't more just because people seem to scare me off with this Curately risk but I think I need to Suppass that and actually just give it a play or buy a separate device that to use it on Yeah, I think I haven't either just because I've been so deep in using other things like I keep few I only got so much time to like experiment and test these tools. So been more focused on cloud code and co work and Just cloud in general for now But yeah, obviously got a pretty big exit that Peter I can't say it's a name Steinberger Steinberger. Yeah, good name. Yeah, he yeah He accidentally previous company for like over a hundred million knee. Yeah, so the bot that which is interesting It just feels like a bit of a That's like a big play for them to get back at anthropic. Yeah, exactly But I mean his story is like super interesting because obviously he sold his business for over a hundred mill See comes from a very tech code first background Essentially retired for a few years and then obviously as AI As this kind of AI evolution and revolution revolution started to become more and more present in just consumer Consumers lives He essentially started looking into it more More and more and thinking okay. What is it? What how could I support in this how what can I do to be involved in in this journey? And I think there was a period I listened to a podcast within where he was like He went six months He was up why people not doing this open source way of actually kind of communicating with agents and getting agents to work for you Okay, but it's gonna come it's gonna come and then it just never never came and then He actually just went ahead and coded it himself. I think he 48 times he it he failed and then it was like the 49th that they ended up working so Super interesting story. I know he originally called it Claude Bart. Yeah, which anthropic came after him for He had a cease and desist there and then he re-knit I know it's open-clawed now, but it was something in between wasn't it? Yeah, I just I'll ever know it as is the lobster The iconic red lobster, which is funny. I think see it's interesting that they've obviously had issues with anthropic and then been bought by open AI Another one we could could go down like what's happening AI all day, but did you see Manus have started to release quite a bit in Facebook? So Manus are a The bit of like a for those who haven't like experimented with them Facebook acquired a company called Manus AI for about two billion Maybe three months ago now Maybe more or public was announced publicly about three months ago What that is is like an agentical layer on top of models and You've started to sort of see them slowly merge into the into the meta platform. So When if you have like real analytics on reels on Organical prompt you to use Manus to make more reels or you just leverage the tool to create more content when you're in the ads manager You get a Manus pop up to help with analytics So it's interesting that they're starting to bring that that into the platform and merge those two together the The weird move though was they they brought out icon open-claw through Manus like Replicated the the concept which obviously Mark Zuckerberg has always been famous for just stealing people's eyes And doing better but For some reason they launched it on telegram and not WhatsApp which made no sense Like the own WhatsApp why not put it into there maybe because of the encryption side of the platform but Yeah, I think I'm gonna see a lot more from Meta Manus those two things Converging I think to be interested. Yeah, that's super interesting Cool, well, let's move on I wanted to actually just touch on some bits that I've been going deep into AI you do see over the last couple of weeks. I think like Transparently I see this is just a different vehicle like a different way of delivering a message and it also opens up Capabilities from the perspective of like being able to cast the net wider with say hook Variations how can we tap into a broader range of emotional states or test different messaging test different personical outs You know for a cheaper price essentially which will mean we get to learning's quicker and as a result we can then Drive more impact after after the fact so We've obviously been going a lot deeper into this It's one that I I did it I went through a similar process with last year where Started using it a little bit just it just wasn't where I needed to be and I just as a result put it on pause I'm like gonna come back to this in like six months where likely we're gonna see some improvements there and And I guess like the verdict is like it's is come on leaps and bounds like kind of hugely significant improvements in The product and how it works I think the the key thing for me is like how can we do this in a way that how can we build our own workflow that doesn't require to use One of it at all like an arc ads Which is just quite expensive and that almost kind of defeats the point of the reason you would use something like this Let's put on screen just an example of like one video that that we created will just quickly show this now Guys, when Jarrow made my appetite disappear for the problem is I wasn't getting any protein and had zero energy Then I found a hack that made my coffee a 12 and a half gram protein drink. It's called nutrition geeks collagen Two scoops every morning in my coffee and just like that 12 and a half grams of protein when you're losing weight quickly Your body can break down collagen faster than it produces it making the actual collagen intake even more important If you want an easy way to boost your protein and support firmer looking skin click the link below to get yours today So essentially I what I will run through is like the workflow I used to create this video because I think people may want to start utilizing this. I'm going to talk about some use cases or ways that we can apply this to what we're doing now. I'm still pretty early in this process. In terms of what from a use case point of view, more will come and we're going to talk about this more and more. I think one of the big things that I've been able to identify as what video products or image products are best for different things. I think this is, I guess, where maybe the bottleneck lies right now is that it requires a pretty hefty tech stack to be able to get the strongest output because they all do different things well. As a result, if you want to have a layered piece of creative or layered ad, then you're going to have to use multiple different products. It's a lengthy list. Exactly. The first thing that I want you to do is use either Higgsfield or Kai, which essentially are both API marketplaces. They're really great because what it means is you don't actually have to be jumping from Sora to Kling, to Nano-Banana. All of these image generation and video generation tools can all be centralised in one place, which is great. You just buy tokens directly from Higgsfield or Kai. That's great. In terms of user experience, Higgsfield is probably the best. You can build storyboards there. You have a better, you can rerun prompts if say it hasn't worked as you would have expected. Versus actually having to just re-copy and paste it. It actually gives you a bit of an insight into maybe why something didn't work. You can also upscale as well through Higgsfield, which you can't do on Kai AI. Essentially, you would use a tool like that. The first thing you would want to do is use Claude, which I found is the best for actually creating prompts. If you comment down below, "Prompt" will give you a really strong prompting template, which will give you a good baseline that you can build on. We've essentially created a Claude skill that really deeply understands how to best prompt for an image and text to video, essentially. Claude is best I've found for that specifically. Essentially using our Claude prompt, we are, I give it some just pretty basic information. We want to have a, let's say, woman that is walking through her kitchen, make sure there's camera shake. She needs to say this. She's from England with a British accent, and it needs to be shot on an iPhone 14. If you put that in, very basic level information as well as your dialogue that you would like her to say. Then just use the prompt that I shared below. It will actually put that information in the exact prompt. Do that first, and then you essentially will have a prompt ready to then put into Sora 2. Sora 2 is the best product to use for visuals with audio hooks. I would say you can obviously, you can extract video that's up to 15 seconds on Sora 2, and that works really, really well from the perspective of being able to get just hyper realistic, UGC style content where you have good camera shake. The audio is really good from the creator. It makes it sound like it's actually shot on iPhone. I think sometimes these text-to-video, you can kind of tell. There's almost a slight distortion to it. Yeah, I think you can. When you close to it, it's a question of, like, could the consumer tell, but yeah, I definitely think you can. Yeah, exactly. So, Sora 2 is definitely best for that. Then you put your prompt into Sora 2. It obviously outlines what the subject looks like, etc., etc., the dialogue. It should do a pretty good job then of outputting a creative up to 15 seconds that could be used, either for your hook or the first 15 seconds of the video. The example we shared was it was the subject talking about a story. It felt very raw, comment reply on the screen. From that point, we go into voice over. I felt that was the most efficient way versus trying to replicate voice with video after the fact. The next thing you would do once you've got that Sora 2 output is put that directly into 11 labs. 11 labs can literally just recreate that voice just from a 10 second clip, which I think is quite scary, actually. From like reproducing the exact same voice. Then you can put the rest of your script into that voice as a voice over. From that point, essentially, what all we're doing is creating b-roll footage of that subject. Now, I laid in some actual real footage of b-roll because I think if we want to move quicker, you should have lots of low prod UGC style b-roll of people opening the product, unboxing the product, putting it into a drink, whatever it might be. You should have footage there, which is a good way to just speed up the process and not have to rely 100% on AI output to be able to finish the actual at itself. One thing that you will want to likely do is take an image of an existing UGC subject who might be sat down, let's say, talking to camera or might be filming himself in selfie mode drinking a coffee. And literally screenshot that, screenshot the subject from our opening Sora 2 prompt. And then you essentially will want to take that, put it into chat GBT and just say, can we put our avatar, our avatar that we created from our Sora 2 prompt and put her into this scene to replace the other woman and what that does is it creates a really great JSON prompt output that means that we can actually create a really good reference point to turn that into video. So we've got our JSON, we've then put that into that open order, which will then essentially bring that to life. So it will then take that, the two images, take your prompt and it will recreate the image that we asked it for with our exact same subject that we had within the hook. And I'm going to be showing some of this on screen as we go through it now. And then essentially what, once we've got that nano banana output, clinging, which is, is another text to video tool or image to video tool that is, is best for B role creation. All we need to do there is literally take the image, the reference point and say, bring this image to life. So if it's like the subject's sipping a cup of coffee, but it's a static from nano banana, it will literally bring it to life and turn it into like an actual video. So then I would layer those in as part of it. So yeah, that's a rough rundown as I say, we will be showing this through on screen as we've gone through. And we're going to go be going a lot deeper into this and other use cases and how we can utilize this. But that's how I would recommend getting started. And as I say, comment down below, prompt and we will send you that resource. So that's really complicated. There's a lot of steps. Where do you think it's like, how do you think that's going to simplify? Say, let's say, wait, what's your expectation for say end of this year? Where do you think it'll go? Do you see it being in an archives? Do you see it just being able to be done in one to two tools? It's like hypothesis. I think the hypothesis is like, if we're in a position right now where they can all do different things well, based on the law of accelerated returns and how AI is, you know, continuing to transcend expectations of development. There is no reason why within the next six months, every single one of these tools should be able to do this individually on its own versus having to go into chat GBT because it does the best JSON, output, et cetera, et cetera. So I would say, I'd like to say we will be there within the next six months where you would be able to do this in just one of these LLMs or video generation tools. I think from a short-term point of view, we are going to look at how we can automate some of this process through the use of agents that do specific parts of the process. So for example, one that is really good at picking an image and turning it into a reference nano-binana one as an example. One that's really great at B-roll. Then we can look at how these work together essentially. But I would say like, as a starting point, the easiest thing you can do that is super quick and low barrier to entry is you saw or two for hook variations. I would say like just start there, like the example I showed you is I can end to end creative. You don't really need to go that far at this point. You can create 15 second videos from saw or two of a subject just talking to camera walking with the phone. We know that and itself could work as an ad, as a standalone creative without any editing associated with it. We know that that could be, we could test different messaging, tapping into different emotional states, different personas as we talk a lot about these micro personas in the last episode with Meta. How do we tap into different desires, different fears, different hook frameworks? We could as a result, a very low additional cost if it's 10 cent an output for one dollar, we could do 10 additional hook variations of a concept that already exists. Yeah, I think it's using it strategically, isn't it? Like, where does it fit into the process based on what it's able to provide in terms of value right now? Just see it enabling us to validate so many more different messages that we maybe wouldn't have prioritized if we were to actually do the shoot. Yeah. Whether it's creator or with our production team, we're able to do such low cost. And so that's a fill some of those gaps with those sub personas on micro-personas that are less obvious when we first start on an account. Yeah, 100%. Yes, the other area that we've been going pretty deep on as an agency, and I think arguably the most valuable part of Claude right now, maybe even the whole AI stack is skills. I know we've referenced these on a previous episode, but I know you referenced a couple in that workflow. I think I sent you this article, didn't I? Yes, you did. This recursive self-improvement loop. Been experimenting a lot with skills, so building them for different parts of our workflow, whether it's research, analytics, certain parts of the creative process, skills enable just vastly better output and better efficiency through Claude use just by being able to, partly just because they're able to inject themselves and Claude's able to understand when to call a skill throughout workflow, even if it's like a multi-step process. How have you been using this recursive self-improvement loop? I can give an example of my side after you've led. Yeah, for sure. So essentially what this is is like, how can we build context or build a skill within Claude that allows us to quantify what success looks like at different parts of the process, and almost like a grading system. So it's like working with your manager, right? Like you create a script, you send it to your manager to review, your manager sends a load of feedback back. This could be better. Maybe you could have done this. You create hook, though. And what essentially this creates is the reviewer. It creates that instant feedback loop with the individual that may be creating a script or creating, you know, asking for feedback on a hook or whatever the part of the process might be. And it will be able to give, it will be able to directly grade each part of the script based on its knowledge and context and how I guess we've set up that recursive self-improvement loop. I've built one specifically for script writing. So essentially what that means is if you call the script writing self-improvement loop as a skill, it will then be able to take the skill that you send it and it will grade each part of that script. So it will grade for things like hook quality, storytelling. Does it align with the persona that we are speaking to? Are we bringing in curiosity loops? Are we tapping into core human desires? All of these elements, it will grade and essentially it will need a minimum of an eight out of ten on all of them to be able to pass. So therefore you will need to make changes yourself and then send it back and it will re-grade it and give you context on that grading. And I think it's a great thing to do and we'll put the shout out to Vibemarctor who put this article together. It's a great thing to do if you've got new people coming into the business and maybe one of your constraints is time to actually give feedback to these individuals. It's a good way to actually almost download the way you think and what you grade success to look like and whatever part of the process it is and apply that to whatever that thing is you need grading. So we do it for script writing, hooks and then also static ads as well. Have you been using it? I've started to build one for landing page reviews. So again, personas, top ads and then rating the congruency between ad and landing page and whether we need to break it, whether and a lot of that is like many of our clients will be making 1000 ads but we'll be sending 400 ads for the same product through one PDP even though it's speaking to like five different personas. So just putting that, uploading those top ads, maybe it's 12, 15 pieces of creative into Gemini, either pairing that with the creative and getting it to like just prompting it to understand how those ads are split across those creatives. Then uploading a PDF, a website to PDF of the PDP and just getting it to rate alignment between headline, copy, offer, objection, handling and then suggesting like five key levers rated from highest impact to lowest impact, impact in time or impact in effort for each page and that's leading often to like such easy quick wins of like splitting out a page across three new personas and then every time we launch a new ad for a new persona we'll launch into that London. That's really cool. So I think it's just buddy all started all from persona, so you're pulling, you're basically the same thing as the script writing but just now we've got the ad data, we've got the winners, how do we take that to the London page? Yeah, that's been really valuable. Just for people that might be listening like how would I ever go about creating something like this? Like what are the, because I assume you've actually through YouTube videos going deep into landing pages and other other things, you've been able to create like a context database the sort of domain context that you've been able to feed it to understand at that level like what is required for that? Yeah, I think when making them it's like starting with internal and external contexts, it's like what context do we have in the business that we can leverage? So personas, the ads, that's like the inputs to the process but when building the skill itself, yeah, just going through a lot of thought leaders pulling documents together, starting with like copywriting, there's like layers to the skill rights, like copywriting, conversion rate, optimization, best practice, direct response, best practice, examples of great execution and alignment between Adon Lunder. You could literally take like PDFs of books as well. Yeah, that's what I started with. I've got break through advertising, I'll break through copywriting, I can never remember the names but there's like four or five seminal texts that I upload to everything that's like copy related. I need to do more of the feedback, like I need to train it better. I also think there's an element of maybe breaking out, making it, almost making subskills by funnel stage. So PDP list, like, and then top of funnel page, like step page. That's creating a lot of like quick wins for clients. I would say like if you've never done this before and this is why I think Claude is great because it's just, it's so low barrier to entry and it can actually guide you through the process. Yeah, I want to make a skill for this, how should I approach it? Yeah, and I think first time it can be a bit, the skill you get back isn't amazing but that's where you just have to like start to just ask it to send you the clarifying question say what context do you require for us to get to this objective or this output? And as you said, like never just finish a skill and then take that as the final product, like any product, it's like a constant game of iteration optimization. So if I'm using it or my team are using it, there's always a feedback loop of this could be better, this part could be improved and we can then just go in and make those tweaks directly into the skill. Yeah, I've done a couple of other, so that's one example. The second one that I've built is like it's just a reflect skill. So whenever I'm using Claude and it's, and the output I'm getting is there's been like three steps where I've not got to where we wanted to and we've gone back and forth and I've been giving it feedback. It'll auto pull this reflect skill and compare the ask versus the output and then give itself feedback and commit it to memory and then go again. That's cool. So it like, because a lot of the time you can hit this like, I don't know, when you're doing fairly complex things with quite a lot of context, you can, you can just struggle sometimes to break through this barrier of understanding and not get to where you, you want to. We've built a similar process into a marketing automation where we've ingested the podcast, we've ingested all about other marketing channel output into an agent. Then when we upload the podcast, we'll turn that content into a load of notion boards with like tweets, LinkedIn thought starters. The team can then pick them up, edit them from draft to final version and then the AI will take the final version, compare it to the initial draft and I'll analyze the variation in the difference and then commit that to memory is like what, what the changes were and why they were made and what, like the end, and then the idea is that that becomes self-improving over time. So that you can build a lot of like, again, self-improvement loops into the process where you don't have to do it yourself. The one I'm really interested in and started thinking about last night is building automated because we were talking about how like, presentation is like a soft skill that's really valuable an agency context, I think that this a real opportunity to build a skill like Fireflies client meeting into skill, skill into slack channel feedback for team members based on how they've presented on a call. 100%. How they've dealt with conflict, how they've, how direct they've been, how much ownership they've taken, how much accountability they've given the client, retained to themselves. I think there's an opportunity to think about it for like a soft skill lens as well. Yeah, I agree. I agree. I think that's a really good example. And we've got that for sales, right? Yeah, we've got it for sales, but I was thinking we were talking about like that, that being a, it's hard to shadow client calls. It's quite easy to watch sales recordings, but I think there's just so many client calls going on. It's hard for managers to always sit in. It's quite uncomfortable to give like really quick direct feedback sometimes off the back of a call, but it's really valuable to get that feedback. So I think that's a way of thinking. We always tempting to only look at like the execution, the doing of the work, but I think there's other ways to build skills that can provide like that sort of feedback. Yeah, it's really a big example. Yeah, nice. Again, these articles on there, Twitter articles, popping off. Honestly, they're just absolutely unbelievable at the moment. And probably the best thing I've read in the last 12 months, shout out to again Sarah Levenger, who's just on fire at the moment. Maybe I have to get back on the pod. Yeah, I think we are going to have to. But she wrote an article essentially about the three dimensions of psychologically distinct ads. And I think what it starts with is this concept of, you know, more volume isn't always the answer. And I think this is like a narrative that we've been speaking about more and more recently, because I think sometimes more volume can just equal busy work with, and as a result, can lack intention or strategic thinking as to why we're doing something. Yeah, I think it's more volume whilst quality stays the same or improves. It's not because there is just still content. And there's still content used to be a linear relationship between spending and volume. I put out a tweet yesterday on like ad fatigue and everyone was jumping in the comments saying that they've not made ads for X, Mark appeared and they're still able to spend consistently. And I'm like, that is true. But when you start to try and spend 50, 100 K a day in the UK, you need a lot of hudson. It's something you're playing an outlawy game. And when you're playing an outlawy game, you need to take a lot of shots because not everything is going to work. Yeah. I guess the point quality. Yeah, exactly. I think her point was like, let's say you could, let's say you had the team to be able to produce a thousand ads, like nothing was hitting. Yeah, that's then reduce it by 20% and spend that 20% time on getting the 80% really intentional. 100%. And that's the key with the process. It's not quality of volume. There has to be a measure of both. And it's like, how do we ensure quality stays the same or improves whilst we improve volume? I think that's where brands go wrong. It's like it's not an absolute argument of one or the other. It's maintaining a balance of both. Exactly. And essentially what this kind of, in the case that she was speaking about directly was a brand that was driving huge amounts of volume that just wasn't, hip rate was declining, performance dropping, wasn't being able to drive meaningful spend. And by doing a bit of an audit, she realised that actually the reason why they were doing that, although like they was created diversity to some degree from a vehicle point of view, that's not only persona diversity, but this idea of not tapping into an up-emotional state, which I thought is super interesting. So she talks about these three dimensions of how we can make our ads psychologically distinct to be able to drive incremental reach. And it comes back to that idea of soulmate theory, finding the right person for the right ad. And the first part of that dimension is the valence zone, which essentially is like the emotional charge. So without, you know, most people usually they will fall into negative, negative valence zone, which essentially is like panic, sadness, loss, anxiety. Whereas actually there's like three other core zones, which will show on screen this quadrant now, where we need to be ensure that through our messaging of all of our creatives, we are tapping into these different emotional zones. So you have high valence states, which can be either obviously positive or negative, and the motions are highly volatile, somewhat, you know, fleeting. They can come and go very quickly. So for example, you know, high valence in the left top quadrant here, you can see cozy or calm. You know, that's something that could come and go within minutes, right? Whereas with the low valence state, it can also be positive or negative. But these feelings last longer. So we want to, how can we tap into those longer lasting emotions? So annoyance or panic, you know, panic, sadness, loss, anxiety, etc. So I think this is like a really great quadrant to look at, like when you are messaging for your creative, and one thing we did was actually build this into our script writing skill. So now not only, you know, are we looking at what micro persona are we tapping into, what position in the funnel while we're targeting, what vehicle or creative are we using, but also looking at, okay, what valence zone are we tapping into? Are we creating diversity, are we creating tense scripts? Are we all without knowing, going into, you know, the, the, the, the panic, as an example, sadness? If you audit your add account now, you'll likely see that you're, you're going to be sitting into like just one of those four zones and to create true diversity and incrementality and getting in front of net new customers, you need to ensure you're spreading the net across all of these emotional zones. Makes a lot of sense. And I have never come across this concept before. So super interesting. And you can see how in certain categories as well, it's like you're predisposed to maybe doubling down on one of these quite quickly, like health, been an example where it just predisposes you to like loss, anxiety, also for obviously fatigue, disappointment, irritation. Yeah. So you're operating more down those low, like, almost that, that loss of version versus like the positive side of what a product can bring. Exactly. Yeah. And I almost like see, again, this is, I see this linking with the AI, UGCP. So for example, we could take one script and it could be in valent zone four panic. Yeah. But then we take the same script and we say, can you take the script and put it into valent zone three annoyance. So they're two very different, two very different emotions, but connected to some degree. The way that we would then, that, the tone of that creative or the copy would change as a result of that. So but just by doing that, it's the same script, same customer, let's say avatar, but actually we're speaking to them in two different ways. And almost annoyance and panic or annoyance and sadness, let's say, you're almost catching the consumer at different parts of their journey. Yeah. You know, you could have been suffering from a problem for five years and gone through multiple failed solutions. And as a result, you're going to be in a point of panic and sadness because nothing is working. Whereas you could be much earlier in that journey and maybe you've just started, you know, suffering from a pain point, that's annoying to that point. Yeah. Yeah. And do you see them linking to different awareness areas quite clearly? Or do you think that they sit? Those two examples, one sits more like problem aware, one sits with quite solution aware because do you see them matching up in a similar way? Or do you see them kind of sitting across most of those multiple awareness phases? Yeah. I would say that it depends. I think it very much depends. But I think usually when we're talking about like emotions within copy, naturally that is going to be appealing more so to like higher in the final anyway. Yeah. I do think naturally when that actually comes on to more language intensity, so one of the, one of her dimensions, dimension three, which we can jump to now is how, how essentially the cognitive friction, so how are we speaking differently to people from the point of low intensity to high intensity, dependent on where we sit within the final essentially? So as a result, naturally high intensity language is going to build to someone that is lower within the final because they, we go more direct response. Yeah. So if we're in product aware or most aware, we don't need to be setting up necessarily the emotional state to the same degree as someone that needs that education to be brought through the final. So we therefore will go higher intensity in the way that we speak to them and that would sit as I say lower within that final. And I think, I think the fact that the variance stages sit further up the final end, like your say, emotions are, we're being more emotional, we're being more storytelling, we're being more like psychologically, psychologically, leave focus, I don't know if that's the word, in those are on a West and problem-wise stages. I think it's really powerful because that's an area where it is quite hard to do diversity a lot of time. I think that's from a messaging perspective. So you can see the impact of that. What's the final layer? Yeah. So dimension two, as I say, just to recap, I've got dimension one valent zone, emotional charge. We just went through dimension three, which is language intensity, which essentially is the cognitive friction. And the last one dimension two, which I also think is super interesting, is the self concept anchor, which is the identity layer. So essentially, it's like asking yourself, where is this person sitting right now within their journey and there's three types of self? You've got actual self where messaging works through problem recognition. So making the customer aware of the current state that they are living in right now. So I am currently suffering with X problem. Self is speaking to them through the nature of where they want to become or what they want to grow into. So they are after state almost. So that then will adapt the language to becoming more aspirational versus really sitting in the problem right now. It will be talking about, okay, imagine you could get to imagine you could feel like this. And then we take them through that journey of self discovery. And then you've got all self, which is messaging that works through duty and responsibility. So it's almost that idea of feeling guilt and feeling like we need to help others that are around us. So for example, it's a product that helps with period pains. You're talking directly to the man, the boyfriend versus the woman who's suffering from the problem. And you're talking to him about her problem. And as a result, he's motivated to support her through to a solution. So you've got those three different types of self. And as a result, again, that's going to adapt the way that we are speaking within those creatives to how we evolve the copy as a result of this. I think Sarah uses a really good example where you could make one ad with two variations where one of them you say, are you a stressed parent struggling to find time for yourself? But then another saying, busy parents need solutions that actually work. And really, you might think those are different psychological states, but actually they both fall under actual self. So we're not testing diversity within the hooks. We're testing the say, you know, really what we would want to do is test one hook that is talking about the now, the problem in the now and one that could talk about the ideal self. So, you know, talking about where, imagine, imagine you could spend an hour reading a book on a child. Exactly. I'll choose tonight. Exactly. Those are the three different dimensions will link below, but even just taking this and creating a skill around it or applying it to your own script writing skill is going to really, really help you create that psychological diversity with your scripts. Yeah. I think it'll be worth as an exercise going away, taking like top 10 spenders and just mapping it and see them where you sit and work again, gaps, what are the biggest gaps? What the what's the there'll be a few from these quadrants that really stick out as quick opportunities to test based on what you're already doing to really flip that frame? Exactly. One, just we were telling our team about this and one of our team did a audit on one of their accounts and they found some super interesting insights. But just by looking at their like top 30 spenders, they realized that valence zone three was appealing to females and valence zone four to men. So just by knowing that inside, it will adapt to the way that we evolve our creative strategy and so interesting. So interesting. And it's another layer of diversity again. And I think another way to appeal to more personas, more variation into the account. And I think we're going to be doing a persona based masterclass, not done a masterclass in a while. No, we need to get back on it. We've got that and we've got the Claude one. Yeah, and I've got a couple come in from like a paid perspective over the next few weeks as well. I think yeah, that whole soul was thinking a lot this week about that whole soul mate theory because I do feel like we've entered this persona based era of page performance. Everything is persona driven. So the persona is the foundation, the way we structure the creative strategy and approach stems from that persona, the way we're structuring add accounts at scale beyond a certain level is persona driven campaigns up for personas. The way we're making landing pages is for personas. And I think it's the brands that are able to approach it through that level. Yeah. And I think as we're getting as meta is getting better at delivery, it seems to be slowly being able to activate more layers within those personas. And only if you're able to kind of correctly resource each one. So micro personas, sub personas, it's like what Maxim said, isn't it? Like a really nice quote from that episode we did with Meta the other week was like, it's not about what Adam are going to make. It's about what emotion, fear, motivator am I speaking to? Yeah. Under persona. And I think I think that's where that's the end. The end state is soul mate theory is like how good can it get? How many ads can you make? How many people can you get in front of? Where does that end? I think we're seeing a real ramp up in like creative fatigue recently which I need to pull some data on for a later episode. But yeah, be interesting to see where we end up with that over the next 12 months. Yeah. Perfect. Well, should we wrap up there? Let's do it. Thank you for watching. Juicy AI lead episode, more creative source from Lucas. We'll be back with another episode next week. 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