How to Invest in Mutual Funds? Stocks, SIP, Gold ft Girish Sehgal, Head Wealth Management ICICI Bank | Ep 14

in stock market. Your wealth is determined not by the stocks you own but more by the stocks you don't own. People get excited about cryptos, people get excited about options, derivatives, these are like weapons of mass destruction. You have to have a good credit profile as well. Otherwise your bureaus for receivables for gets impacted and later on when you want to take loans there you will not be able to. There is always that lure to buy now pay later. That is something which has become so common these days. You pay or EMI's on time. You should not have too much loans. You should not get into a debt trap or a card revolving trap. There is no point standing on the fringes and waiting for the right time to invest. There is no right time. There is no such right time. Right time will never come. Go slow and get into SIP route or an STP route where you invest at regular intervals without getting impacted. At all when markets are high or markets are low. How much percentage of that young investors do you see coming on these days in terms of as customers investing into a market? And welcome to another episode of expert talk with Bhavya Desai. Today we are talking about investments and the investments are topic so important or interesting because now all the new players, all the new youngsters are everybody is looking to invest in the markets. They are at an all time high and that is why I thought that I should call my good friend Girish Segal who is the head of wealth management or ICICF bank and we have talked about so many things. You know from stockpicks as well as how you should invest what should you invest in what should be your investment portfolio. What things you should be careful about plus you should invest in something. What should be the interesting conversation and I am sure that you will enjoy it because a lot of learnings is made to you definitely and also I am very sure that at some point of time I would love to get him back as well because there is still so much to talk about. So if you like this video and this episode is good then please subscribe because it helps us a lot. You have a subscription also if you like the audio podcast and you don't like it so much then we are available on all these audio platforms as well which is Spotify, Amazon, Music, Apple Podcast, all of these places. So take a look at that as well and see you in the next one. Hi Girish and welcome to Expert Talk with Bavya Desai. I am really excited actually to have this conversation today primarily because you know the markets are at such an interesting juncture at this point of time and more and more people are looking to invest into the markets into web services and things of that. So that's why there's so much that we need to cover but before we start that once again welcome if there's something that you'd like to say then please go for it and then we'll start. Thank you Bavya and thank you very much for having me here today. Yeah you are right it's an interesting place in the markets. Markets are booming every day we hear capital markets hitting all time highs but yeah there are booms and busts that you have to be aware of and whenever somebody comes and tells me the four dreaded words this time it is different. So I believe it is never different. It is always the same so people have to be really cautious as well while of course enthusiasm continues. Of course great so you know in fact what you just said in that only there are like two or three things which I kind of wanted to focus on but before that I there are two aspects that I wanted to have this conversation on you know one in terms of the narrative was of course from a consumer's perspective because consumers as I am at a logical everybody's investing young people investing as young as 15 16 year olds like people who are actually getting out of the college where they are investing and the other thing is from a business side as well because my hissap said two type of viewers are our a shy conversation looking at consumers be plus of course the business and people as well. So that's what I was kind of looking at but from first up very simple straightforward can you break down our viewers? What is the wealth management service of a bank they do basically so to keep it very simple for a viewer? So great question. So let me let me put it very straight in stock market your wealth is determined not by the stocks you own but more by the stocks you don't own. And most of us while we see people entering stock markets everybody gearing and wanting to invest because markets are touching all time highs but we don't have enough time to do so much research. We don't have enough time to study about companies there is always this herd mentality which is in place people see what others are doing and tend to follow the herd. We also get influenced by a lot of these financial influences and so called market experts and hence want to make very quick buck. And if you have to really make wealth complexity is never the answer. Simplicity is what leads you to make wealth and most of the time the financial advisor or the RM is the right way to go and because he is the person who can help you guide you in terms of determining what is your risk appetite that is one critical element before you should lunge into mutual funds or stock markets. Second is the kind of investible surplus you should have. And third is what is the time horizon that you really look for and want yourself to be invested. And it's always a long term game and I keep telling all young folks and there are so many people that I engage with. I keep telling if you have to get into mutual funds and stock markets and capital markets you have to have patience loads and loads of patience. And I think patience is a superpower. It's a superpower and you need to have patience you need to have lot of discipline you need to don't go by what you are hearing and seeing on social media. Take the expert help if you are not very sure. Stay away from some of the risky things. I would say people get excited about crypto people get excited about options, derivatives. These are like weapons of mass destruction in my mind. So there is so much that actually a lot of things that you spoke about you know financial experts social media people giving stock tips and stuff like that. I mean all of this all of this I absolutely want to cover because largely so many people who are viewing this as well or usually are getting the markets these are very important things and important information I feel that they should know. But first up as simple as what you started with you know you said the markets are at all time high. They are and it looks like the trajectory is going but you think it's a bubble waiting to be burst or how long do you think this will be sustainable. See it's a it's I strongly believe it's an India growth story. India from a four trillion dollar economy. Fifth largest in the world you will soon become third largest from four to eight to ten trillion and when you look at some of the numbers you have 16 crore DeMate accounts today. But if you see the investors is hardly four crore of five crore. So out of a population of 140 crore you have four five crore people investing and actively using their accounts. So it's a it's a long runway ahead it's a long runway ahead and with the kind of the development which is happening on the infrastructure side make in India the ports railways new trains getting launched airports coming up I think it's it's something which is here to stay it's India growth story and I'm completely confident that the decade belongs to our country you might see those like I said booms and bursts ups and downs but if you believe in India growth story the time is now stay put stay invested and you will benefit from the power of compounding I can tell you that is somewhere I said in my initial thing also you need to have loads and loads of patients you just need to have lot of discipline approach consistent approach don't get overboggled by returns of course returns will come returns will happen they will be volatility so I remember of where they used to be at least five year back they were clients when markets used to move down they used to be frantic calls that used to come and people used to move away immediately and they were they were kind of frightened when there was such a volatility or any hiccup coming on the way but these days I have seen people are not very afraid they have actually become more courageous when it comes to markets they stay put haven't seen people calling frantically they know these are ups and downs and will happen so I think that is the right way to go as well you have to be consistent discipline in your approach and stay put that is the best way and don't get influenced by the jargons being used I think the investments are risky only to an extent if you understand what is it and why you are getting into okay so that is I think somewhere which is very very critical and keep learning and keep reading what's happening around you. While you might not find time to get into too much of research about a company, what reports are, but be contextual. What is happening? What just have an eye and ear around what's the news? And when you sleep, you end up sleeping a little wiser than you were a previous day. So I think that is something which is very, very critical. And don't have any regrets in life in terms of what was done, what was invested, what was done, I think those bygones or bygones, whatever has happened has happened. And no matter of anxiety or worry can change your future. I think that's living the present and enjoy the ride. Is what I would say. But don't you think that this is a little difficult? For example, investors who invested money, like you rightly said, you obviously need to be smart about where you are investing. But say for example, if you invest in a company and then they lose that money because of whatever reasons could be, the company didn't do well, the stock didn't do well, whatever. So then it's very difficult for them to actually forget about that because while enjoying the ride is great and just say, "Bulti B.A.G, you always enjoyed when it's going up, when it starts coming down is when you. " So the best way to do for a retail investor is adopt the mutual fund route. Because here you have an expert sitting, a fund manager who is taking the calls and who is guiding and directing rather than you yourself doing it because I'm sure not everyone is an expert directly getting into stocks. So it's always better to get into mutual fund route, that is one. Second, SIP is something which we all know, 25,000 crore of SIP, book, last month, flows in a particular month, in one month, 21,000 crore. So to end a half-lack crore for the year is a huge, huge number which is about build-up and very soon it will become 30,000, 40,000, 50,000 crore a month. So that is the power of retail investing. And that's where I think you end up staggering your investments, you end up riding over the volatility. You are able to do a rupee cost averaging. You are able to patiently just keep investing a small amount which doesn't pinch, you don't even get to know that it's getting invested and at the end of the day, it becomes a huge amount. So I think SIP is something which is the way to go for any retail consumer. But where is the consumer of today investing? Like you mentioned earlier, there are almost four lack crore people out of the 1.4 billion that we have. Are the ones who are actually investing today and they have de-matta counts. So in that, what is the bifurcation and percentage of where are they investing? So you have largely mutual fund if you look at the mutual fund AUM today, stands at around 56-lack crore. 56-lack crore, it used to be in 10-lack, 20-lack, it has gallup to a level of 55-56-lack crore so soon and the way retail investors are getting into mutual funds, I think that's the way to go. Of course, we have more and more retail investors also coming into the stock markets. But largely, when we look at the clients, they want to get into mutual funds using a staggered approach, whether it's an SIP, even if it's a lump sum approach. Yes, we have seen people getting into those multi-cap, lexicaap, large-cap funds and you can't stay away from attraction of those thematic and mid-cap and small-cap because those funds are giving you lots of returns today and there's some froth that we see building up there. And hence, we are not recommending any of those stocks to our clients. But a large-cap space, a lexicaap space, a multi-cap space, a multi-acet space, which also has gold in it. So I think those are the funds that are safe and of course nobody can beat the hybrid variety, the balanced funds, which are like the bread and butter and very, very good to invest. And I think, and I always keep telling my clients, whenever I talk to my customers, the biggest thing and the most important thing in well-planetment is peace of mind. And at the end of the day, if you can't sleep in peace, then there is no point if something is coming at the cost of your peace of mind, please stay away from it. It's not worth it at all. So better to have some peace of mind and invest into these funds, which are safe, sound and just let it go and be consistent in your approach. But from a business perspective, now you mentioned that this is where a lot of the people are investing. Now, a thing that comes to mind is, now, naturally, the service is that, obviously, you offer. A lot of times, naturally, you are sitting on a lot of funds and a lot of wealth, which is taken from the consumer, from the customers of the bank. And that's invested into a lot of these different type of companies, different funds. Now, I was reading recently that a lot of the tips or if you'd call that, a lot of the direction that a lot of people are saying is that it's not good to now, at this point of time, invest into a lot of large-cap funds. Number one, so what is the general bifurcation that a fund manager or the service that you guys have usually look at in terms of the portfolio that you want to invest in? So again, it's a great question. And from a bank perspective largely, then we are recommending our the funds to the clients. We largely delve into large-cap space. We get into multi-cap and taxi-cap as well because of the taxi-cap or a multi-cap, but definition would also venture some bit into a small-end mid-cap as well. So by that fund, you can have exposure across the caps. This is the risk profile. If you have a growth or a very high risk kind of a profile where you have that temperament to take high risk. And of course, high-risk, high-reward game you want to play. Then get into those thematic funds. And thematic can be into a different space or consumption space or pharma or technology, those themes or sectors, but those are very concentrated play. And hence, if you want to get into that, you need to have a very high risk appetite. If things go wrong, they will go wrong. So in a balanced fund, what I was explaining, in a hybrid fund or a balanced fund, if the market falls, the fund will not fall to that extent. Your fall will be limited. And if the market go up, again your upside would be limited. But then you are relatively safe where the ups and downs are capped. But in a thematic fund, when things are going well, of course you enjoy, but when things don't go well, the fall is pretty vicious. But in this case, like for example, when you're seeing whether the fall is vicious or not, does that also mean that in terms of bifurcation for funds also, the consumers always need to put their investments in different places, like how they say that you don't have to achor your egg. What is that option or what is that broadway look like? See large set of our clients, we always say you should diversify. Not over diversify, of course. You should not have investments across 30, 40, 50, 50, 12.5, get into stocks, holding 100, 200, stocks, no, please don't do that ever. You should diversify. And by diversification, of course, you have some bit basis, your risk profile, there are model portfolios which get drawn out. And basis the model portfolio, there is a fixed asset allocation which is decided. So, there is an asset allocation, which you should have, some bit into equity, some bit into fixed income, some bit into gold, and GMS and alternate assets as well. So, largely that is how the asset allocation play comes into picture and the always Taylor clients that follow the asset allocation approach. Don't just go blindly by a gold based approach. While I can say that I have a goal as a youngster, if I'm let's say 25, I want to buy a house or get into an international holiday, five years down the line or 10 years down the line and that's the pure gold based approach. And you want to get into a particular theme and just want to make money and become wealthy overnight. So, it's a very very common saying that if you want to become rich and wealthy, stay invested, do it slowly, it will take 15 years. But if you want to become wealthy quickly, it will take 25 years. So, it is always good to stay put, go slow in your approach and build an asset, do follow the asset allocation approach, you have equity, some bit as an emergency fund in FDs because if there is a bad time, so something that you need for your needs, for let's say emergency needs somebody is in hospital or something or the other, you need to have those emergency funds with you, which is can be in the form of an FD or a recurring deposit in the bank, largely into mutual funds. And again, some bit into gold as well, because gold has been also doing fairly well in last couple of years, we have seen gold moving up and people have started moving somewhere location, at least 5 to 10 percent of their portfolio, it to gold as well and then real estate. Gold is a way interesting topic which I want to come to because I have a few questions around gold which are I think quite interesting but you spoke a little bit about the young investors as well how much percentage of that young investors do you see coming on more these days in terms of as customers investing into markets the reason I will tell you is because I'll just give you a little bit of context now I know at least four or five people who actually after finishing their graduation they're so infactuated by markets and possibly also doing well by their own standards they say that we are doing really well in terms of whatever they're investing they actually don't have too many plans to really study further and they want to do something in this connection itself using that's why using that's recommendable as well see I know there are a lot of young people jumping into the market because one of course the markets are doing well and anything that you're touching is is turning into kind of gold and hence people want to go into and and enjoy but that is that is something that we have seen but as a young investor I think few things which are very very clear and you should keep in mind is my take clearly like I said earlier also you need to have loads of patience have a disciplined approach have a disciplined approach be consistent in your approach don't have any fear of failure of course they can be ups and downs but we courageous stay put and and there is there is lot of synergy and I keep telling there's a lot of synergy between markets between your personal life between your health between your jobs all these are correlated just so if you say if I want to be healthy I have to go to the gym then you have to go to the gym daily you have to show up daily you just can't do one once a week or twice a week and then stop it so your health will suffer similarly in your personal life also if you have a family you have to show up to your family every day you need to take care of them every day similarly when you are in your job you have to show up every day and you have to be get it every day so that's how it is and similarly in markets you have to be there consistently putting small amounts whether it's a steep approach where you are staggering and slowly your funds are moving into or an SIP approach where you are consistently putting in and hence that approach that systematic approach that consistency will always help there are certain things and it falls which you should completely avoid you should never have that sense of entitlement you should never have any any negativity if something has happened or anything that fear of failure I would say never ever go and and use that approach and whatever that you are earning again I would say this is a very simple rule but just percent for your roti kapra makaan dal chowal but just percent should get through there 30 percent should be for your when you want to dine out when you want to go to your movie when you want to travel abroad that is your 30 percent share the remaining 20 percent you should end up saving and investing whether that is for sure why you shouldn't 20 percent to less though because I think in today's day and age especially with the way the trajectories going for all everything is getting expensive isn't 20 percent less so there is one element which is why I said 20 percent because there is one element which contributes is your loans then people tend to take loans use credit cards have their EMI's running so that's also one large element which you can't miss you have to have a good credit profile as well otherwise your bureaus for a sebil's for gets impacted and later on when you want to take loans there you will not be able to so while there is always that you're to buy now pay later that is something which has become so common these days the bnpl phenomena somewhere I think you have to also ensure that you pay your EMI's on time you should not have too much loans you should not get into a debt trap or a card revolving a trap so those are the things that you should avoid but yes there are some loans which are always running they can be an education loan running for a young investor there can be a car or a tubular loan running for somebody so you have to take care of those as well so 20-25 percent is something if you can actually save every month and get that getting plowed into markets in a sip or nxtp route that will always result in a good compounding but tell me one thing now you so in that case should somebody buy a car which is on an EMI or should they buy the reason I say is because I was reading about some very interesting articles that I came across a few weeks back where they said that in a debt trap if you really don't want to get stuck in a debt trap then one of the most important things is actually to not buy getting new cars because of depreciation you know so is there a intruder matter or you see one is my loans are of course people want to take loans and want to buy these amenities of course but my only advice is always give a smaller loan is a debt but a heavy loan or a larger loan is an enemy so be very very careful about it and I think to your earlier question where you said he 20 percent is good or bad let's let's take an example let's let's take let's take three people and and and let's let's say let's name them as the three characters which were there in three years right so one is Rancho the smartest what is Farhan and one is Raju so Rancho starts investing let's say at the age of 25 10,000 rupees a month that's it okay Farhan starts investing at the age of 35 and Raju starts investing at the age of 45 same amount 10,000 rupees a month and let's say assume the return is very conservative and at 10 percent per annum that's it and retirement age is 58 all three are salary let's say so somebody who starts early at 10,000 rupees a month at the age of 25 has 33 years it's a long runway ahead so by the time the person retires even at a rate of 10,000 per month he would be able to accumulate three crore plus just by putting in 10,000 per month Farhan ends up putting around one crore because he started 10 years late and hence look at the impact from three crore to a one crore and somebody who started investing at the age of 45 he would end up somewhere around 30 lakhs so while money would have double triple for everyone but in the case of first which is Rancho who started early with a smaller amount gets a return which is 5x66 whereas Farhan gets a return of let's say 3x and Raju gets a return of only 1x so the earlier you start even though it's a smaller ticket but consistent you don't you don't don't miss out in any of the months it's consistently done patiently done every month without looking at your portfolio and of course one key thing with we keep telling our clients you need to continuously have a look at your portfolio where your RM comes into play the relationship person product specialist and he will do a portfolio rebalancing in case it is needed some trimming something or the other but largely if your investments are done in decent funds you don't have to do too much lot of clients at times come and ask us hey portfolio but we really don't want to do for the heck of it we really want to suggest the change if there's a need otherwise you continue these funds for a longer period and whatever that we do we will always tell them to stay put for a longer duration don't jump the ship off and on that doesn't help at all yeah because the barrier for entry also is much lesser at that point right because that's right because Rancho started investing a month but it's finally less whatever yeah so actually the NLE that you would have got he or she would have got I mean far better than what the others will get yeah you know investment you're speaking about what is better lump sum or sips so my take again I have a soft corner for sips really very very emotionally because because I started my sips quite late so frankly I moved in I started handling wealth in 2011 and hence that time I think year or two I started and have been doing my SIP regularly I still wish somebody would have guided me and told me when I started my career in early 2000s you start doing your SIPs I don't know the copper would have been far bigger and better so my vote goes for SIP without a doubt of course lump sum is important again two approaches lump sum one is of course you can always go for an STP approach where you put your money into liquid and staggered form systematically it moves to the dedicated target scheme that is one way of doing and in case that is an opportunity that you find the where you want to invest and markets are doing well those funds are doing well but never forget whatever mutual fund that you get into one you should look at the pedigree the the management how good bad second the UM size how is the size how is the funds size so do that basic stuff don't again get influenced by what your friend or peer or neighbor is saying. The ultimate aim is not to beat the returns which your neighbor or friend or peer is making. The ultimate aim is to beat inflation and let's be happy about it. The more the barrier, whatever that you get, but keep your expectations. Who then controls with it? Where does the consumer really do most of this? Like you're saying that you need to look at some of these aspects. Now let's take an example of someone like me. Of course I do SIPs, I do investments as well and up. As you said rightly, they're asking for my investments into a number of things. For obvious reasons, but the thing is that because you naturally have a busy lifestyle, you have work, you have other things to take care of and things like that. A lot of times it's extremely difficult and I'm sure I'm just one person out of millions of consumers and customers who are like me. So how do you really do that? I mean usually then don't people follow on to take advice from people like you. What friends or take advice from peers and things like that? This is common in India and it happens. And I don't deny it completely. When you hear on social media, on whatsapp, some of your friends talking about a particular stock or fund. So your thought, you get enticed and learned to buy that. But it's been risked, so this will take place in a year. So those are the things that you, as a human, it is something which comes naturally and you can't avoid it completely. But in all three scenarios, since everybody is busy, everybody is running a Hektek life. You don't have time to do all this research. Here is your RM or the advisor comes into play. And largely, at least I can vouch for our bank where we don't have any incentive structures where RM would advise a particular fund or recommend a particular fund because of having an investable pay or incentive for that fund. No, there is nothing. So we don't do that. It's purely basis being fair to the customer at the same time being fair to the bank. So fair to the customer, I think, is something which holds the key and any product, any product that we would advise or we would recommend would always be something that we can sell or we can pitch to our family and friends. Something which I can pitch to my family, the same that we should give it to our clients. The underlying is always truth, trust and transparency. That is, I think, completely as an underlying mantra theme, Bible, whatever that you say, truth, trust and transparency always permits. And that is where your trusted advisor comes into play and give you the idea. You know, what you mentioned actually brings me to a very interesting idea. Now, naturally, broken firms or securities and things like banks like you, of course, then there are startups like your examples of zero, the X, Y, Z. And business works on profits. Let's be very honest. Nobody is doing anything for charity. It is. But a lot of these startups actually claim that there is zero brokerage like zero, the X, Y, Z. How do they really make money if this is what they're offering? So I think in the recent circular, which has come from sebi, where they have eliminated from first October, the volume based discounts, which lot of these brokers used to enjoy. And largely the volume just to come from derivative trading and people all cool, fog into futures and options. Although 97, 95 percent don't even make any money in FNO. And they don't even ever get to beat FD returns. While on social media people might come out as coming about their returns and XIR are there that they are making. But largely what we believe is something which is not there. So with these volume based discounts going off, it is a level playing field. And while these volume based discounts were there, they used to subvent on one area and they used to offer zero brokerage on equity as a subvention. So while they were being charged on one side, they were trying to subvent on the other side. And they were getting discounts as well because there was huge volumes which are coming on FNO side. So now it's a level playing field that is one. And secondly I think I again keep saying keep don't get into just by there is a brokerage charge which is there or there is some charges which are getting levied. I think one should always take the advisor route and RM route who can actually guide you take care of your portfolio. So who can the comment tell you that these are the mistakes to be avoided and try and keep balancing your rebalancing your portfolio. And then you can leave it to him. The person is an expert and like a mutual fund, build a fund manager is an expert and he's doing it on your behalf if you have taken a good fund. So it's like leaving the difficult job to the expert and you of course keep you pre-wearing up portfolio you should just leave it to them. You have to review regularly. But subcapacity is not there for relationship manager also. Like for example, actually RM services also comes when you have a specific type of an account or you've obviously given a special, any reasonable amount of business to the bank. So then so like if you most of these if you go to let's say I say direct which is a security portal. Yes. There you have those baskets or one click equity baskets are there. So if you see those baskets if you are struggling and you're not deciding where to go and what to invest into. Of course, mutual fund is one way. Second way is if you want to get into a stock SIP or a one click portfolio which can be a Navaratna kind of a stock for PSU basket or a bank basket or a MNC basket multiple baskets which exists. And you can of course get into those baskets opt that basket and your money will start getting into those baskets as a regular and similar to an SIP. So there you don't have to tinker too much or apply too much of a logic. You can just opt that basket because the returns are there. Clearly specified in terms of what kind of returns those baskets give and those are good enough in terms to start your investment journey. God, you know FNO you spoke about. Yeah. Such an interesting topic. First is can you just break down what is FNO for the viewers. First and then I'll ask a follow up question of users and options largely. Get into leverage. So if suppose today you have invested 100 rupees in stocks and the markets go down by 10%. So you still end up getting 90 rupees which is your capital and you you while you have incurred some loss but you still get to recover large portion of your capital. 10% 20% market gear up. So we are seeing up there up to you. But in an FNO you end up losing the entire money because there is underlying leverage which is there 6 times 7 times 5 times. And hence it's a very very risky proposition and in words of Warren buffet if I can put I was telling earlier also these are weapons of mass destruction. So one should stay away from FNOs. Just stay put and stay invested in a very simple way and have some patience and life. Don't try and become a wealthy or rich overnight. Have some patience and I can tell you a story from small story from Mahabharat. So we all know Ashwathama came to know that Dora Charae, his father, he killed him and that was by way of a jute which you distressed except that Ashwathama had been killed. And he was very angry and he was very very brave. And so he shot at Pandavas something called a Narayan Astra and that Narayan Astra started killing everyone. Whatever soldiers were there if they had some weapon in their hand started killing everyone one by one they were all falling down. So Krishna said, Lord Krishna said, just put your weapons on the ground. Hold your hands and don't even think of war in your mind. If you think of war in your mind you will get killed. Just put your weapons down and stand with your folded hands. After sometime that Narayan Astra also subsided. So the biggest learning from this is in anything whatever that you do whether it is capital markets or corporate life or whatever it's personal life. At times most of the time be patient. Just put your Astrasyaastra down and wait for an opportune time. Don't be in a hurry to retaliate. I think that is where I would say to all investors whether young or whoever it is avoid these FNOs, avoid all these risky bets on crypto etc. Just take your time get into simple SIPs, get into simple mutual funds, get into stocks. If you want to and if you are expert in you believe you can handle stock markets then get into stock SIPs or one click basket which are available. But don't get influenced by whatever they are doing around you, the social media or whatever they are doing around you. financial influencers, market experts, please, please don't get enticed by whatever they are claiming. Have some balanced head on your shoulders. Please have some patience. I think that is the biggest learning that I have seen in my last 14, 15 years that I have done. I have been in well. I think that is something that takes you a long way. That takes you a long way. But surely there must be some percentage of people who must be really doing well as well. Because like you said, in terms of FNO, what I think my estimation is also almost above 90 percent or maybe 95, they just get wiped off. If it is great, it is great. If it is not, then you completely come down to bare bones and it is difficult. Of course, there are people who would, but that is a very small percentage and they are the trader variety. Who do this only for their bread and butter? It is not like you and me. We have a family, we have a job, we have to work. There are so many things that we have to do. It is not that I wake up early in the morning and start looking at the markets and throughout the day I am in the market at night, I am looking at S.J.X. Nifty, how that is doing in the morning, I am looking at down futures. No. If that is the seed, then was there is no piece of mind. It is not worth it if I am doing that. So, better, you lead a full some life. Have your hobbies and plays, enjoy with your family, friends, everything and invest, of course, with ease of mind, I keep saying this and have that RM to do the job and invest into simple things. Don't get into complexity, complexity will always make you find, make you look intelligent, but simplicity is something that will make you well. So, Indian is traditionally always invest a lot like these, but gold, I told you I have a few questions in that respect and some conversation. But Indians always are traditionally, I have always been told that invests in gold, in gold and in real estate maybe, because those are usually things that are safe and they are always going to grow. Is gold still a very good investment today? We do and wise like I said, our clients to get into some portion of their portfolio into gold, gold has been doing well and traditionally like you said, Indians and I know there are two things, one is this Dhanteras. Most of us, Dhewali, Dhanteras and we have seen it. Our mom dad, they used to go to a jewelry outlet and buy something or that. It is not something that is a thing that is not bought by a luxury agency. It was a lot and that is so true and that tradition still continues. Second is a festival called Akshit Rithya where we go and buy gold and Indians have that and I have so many friends around me, I know who keep buying gold because they are preparing for their daughter's marriage or son's marriage right from the time when they send daughters at 10 years to 10 years and still a long run way to go, but every year they are buying gold because that is what it is there in their mind. Gold of course, but I think times have changed and some of the new forms of investments have come in and there are two or three things which if you buy, go and buy a physical gold. One, there is always doubt on the purity unless you buy from a very good outlet and there too, you need to certificate and all so that the purity thing always comes into play. Second storage, fear of theft then you lock it down in your lockers and all that which will happen and when you go and resell it then there are again you don't know how much value would you get? Are you able to get a decent value and if you are buying jewelry then there are those charges which are make markup charges which get applied in terms of making charges on jewelry. So, there are elements around it. So, something that we have seen of late and is sovereign gold bond which is come into play and personally I would advise my clients to put some money into sovereign gold bonds as well because one while it is a 80-year lock-in kind of a product but whatever maturity value after 80-year. So, today if gold is let us say X rupees 100 rupees for example and after 80-year let us say gold becomes 200 rupees. So, whatever game that you are making that is tax-free, must inform us the maturity value that you get is tax-free plus every year you get a interest which is 2.5 percent on that. So, that is paid half yearly. So, that is of course, taxable but there is an interest element which you keep getting every year plus you get a maturity value which is tax-free. So, any investment I think it is a very ground rule there are 3 parts. If you look at it on that you will know I call it SLR. In our parlance we call it SLR safety, liquidity and return. So, gold bond safe returns are good liquidity I would say is not very high because it is a lock-in product. And 80 years is a long time after 5 years you are allowed to do redemption but even 5 years is a long time and creating is difficult on exchanges. So, liquidity is definitely issue but safety and returns and if you have time horizon if you are like I say you have a long runway ahead then SGB is the way to go. You should have some portion of your allocation in sovereign gold bonds. Clearly in sovereign gold bonds. So, for the benefit of viewers if you can just say what exactly are sovereign gold bonds and how do they work. So, these are these like the name suggests sovereign. It is a government issued bond it is a guarantee bond. So, there is no issue in terms of safety of the bond 100 percent because it is a sovereign by the name it is a sovereign. So, it is a bond just like you buy any other bond. So, it is a simple bond which is issued by the government by RBI. You get a proper physical certificate on buying a sovereign gold bond and you can also opt for a de-mat option and those bonds the value reflects in your de-mat account like any other stock or mutual fund. And you can see what is the value every day. So, you can see how much the value has grown as well. So, there it is very transparent. So, Giri Sh. SVB's versus gold. What is a good bifurcation or investment. So, like I was telling and from a physical gold perspective being in India in our household we keep buying gold whether it is the lanteras, thewali or akshatlethya. We have been attuned to buying gold from our parents since we were kids. We were always going to a sonar and buying at least one gold Kasika with Lakshmiji Ganeshji. So, that has always has been the norm of tradition that is those are the values that we have got inculcated in ourselves. So, that is somewhere I think all Indians have that affinity towards buying physical gold. But again if you buy physical gold as a portfolio allocation yes if you see there is there are problems in terms of storage theft. When you buy you are not sure whether it is pure, when you go and sell then there are issues while you are able to sell of course, but you are not sure whether you have got the right price. And then if you buy jewelry then there are those making charges which get levied. And hence to that extent there is something called sovereign gold bonds which have come in. Now these sovereign gold bonds is something a very easy way of investing. You can just go on a bank's website or bank both on digital platforms whether it is iMobile or our internet banking platform. You can go and buy sovereign gold bonds and the biggest advantage is one you can get them in your Deemat account. You can see daily the values moving up down and largely the gold has moved up in last few years and you can see that value moving up. And that is the easy way of doing it. The only disadvantage to where that extent is it is something which is a lock-in product which is an 8 year lock-in. So in terms of liquidity while comparing a physical gold with a SGB, a physical gold is far more liquid while an SGB is not so much. You can of course, redeem it after 5 years. On the exchange you can sell it but again the liquidity is an issue. So that is somewhere which is issue but in terms of SGB when you buy it today let us add 100 rupees and in 8 years if it becomes 200 rupees the gain is 100. That gain is all text-free. The maturity value is all text-free and hence that is one of the key areas why you or one should get into our sovereign gold bond and in addition to the majority value being text-free you also get interest at the rate of 2.5 percent per annum which is paid half yearly. So that's an additional interest that you get and that interest of course is taxable as per your slab but interest is there plus the maturity value which comes at the end of the maturity period which is 8 years. So we have seen large set of customers getting into sovereign gold bond and it's safe as the name indicates sovereign government guarantees so and you can see it in your email you get us a certificate from the regulator. What does the government use SGBs for? Yeah. So largely when you get gold, you use it for a couple of purposes. One of course is the entire developmental stuff which happens around which the government expenses, government expenditure largely that is the gold is being used. And second of course, being Indians like we rightly said, we continue to buy physical gold and there is so much of import of gold which keeps happening and that is expensive and hence to curve down that gold imports, we are encouraging government is encouraging SGBs. So in principle, it's a good idea to actually invest in all their local. Especially from a safety perspective because they are actually guaranteed by the government plus great interest as well on that. Yes. Completely 5% of your portfolio. Anybody's portfolio should be into gold. Wow. But you said 8 year is the minimum lock in or 8 year is the lock in. So is it like a minimum lock in or is it like a 3 or a 5 year is the lock in? 8 year is the regular maturity. So after 8 year, the maturity value comes in. So technically somebody who's investing 100 rupees per year, then they have to invest 500 rupees for 5 years and then at the end of the next 3 years, until 8 years, they can just enjoy it's basically no investment of the name. I always keep saying and that's the benchmark that we use SLR, framework, safety, liquidity and return. So from a safety perspective, scores very high. From a return perspective, largely decent, but liquidity would be somewhere in the middle. So if you compare it with an FD, a bank FD, very high on safety, very high on liquidity, very decent on return. So I think safety liquidity returns is a benchmark which is which can be kind of used by any investor when they are trying to weigh what asset class or what options they want to get into. I understand. Now you mentioned earlier about a lot of these financial experts and it's not always the best option to possibly look at, especially on today's social media. Today's days actually about instant gratification. Everybody wants like get in and fast out in that respect. So how do you inculcate that patience into a consumer today? Is it even possible? So yeah, I know it is difficult. I know it is very difficult and especially the younger generation, it is very difficult. People are living a very fast life and everything is in stock. Whether it is Instagram or instant coffee or anything and everything, it's all in stock. People really want to make quick buck. That is where the tendency is. But somewhere I think when it comes to investments and people that will have to remember that it's a long run game. It's not like there is no shortcut here. There is no shortcut here. Again let me tell you, I keep telling this. You have to be a very stable in your attitude. Very, like I said, you should be a great person. You have invested. So you need a great amount of money. You can't do things very quickly and ensure that this has happened. So it is like, I said that we have made this house very, very, very open. I have opened it very, very, very close to my house. So anything and everything which happens, happens slowly and steadily. I think that is one trait which everybody should have because markets is always a long-term game. It's not a short-term game. While you might end up making money sometime or the other. But at times when it doesn't happen, you have to stay put and just play a long-term game. Again I can tell you a very small story. I'm sorry. No, it's very interesting. Please tell me. So I keep telling my team as well. So there was a farmer. So he had a good project. Ghoda was very healthy, very good, very strong breed. And a lot of people in the village that used to come to him and tell him, you are very lucky. You have so much of a big head. He helps you in plowing the field. And you are so lucky. The farmer was like very patient and always very grateful and humble and said, "Kit, he can't look at the reaction." Well, it's like financial influencers coming and influencing you. But he was like, "Look at it. Thank you." But he was never getting excited. He didn't over excited. So what happened was that you are very lucky. All the villagers used to come. So one day that hearts ran away. So then again the villagers came and said, "Oh, you are very unlucky. So you are, so you are, so you are one or two good, so people used to look at it. But that also ran away." So the farmer again was non-challent. And he said, "Oh, you are right. Everything will be fine. Now we will see. Let's be patient. Let's stay calm and composed." So then they went off. After a few days that hearts came back and he came back along with three or four more forces of similar breeds, similar strength. So then again these villagers came and said, "Oh, you are super lucky. You are so, you are, so, you are, so good." And you are amazing. Don't worry. Let's be patient. Everything is on the surface of God. We will see. So he was again non-challent. And then what's happening? Positive negative. Very balanced. Now what happened was since he had these horses, once his son was riding the horse and he met with an accident and his son had to become kind of handicapped. His leg got injured very badly. So again those villagers came or a badduk who were up, you should have let them go. And this is what is the cause of your sorrows and concerns. So the farmer said, let's say, let's take him and he was like non-challent again very stable head on his shoulder. They went off. Then there was a war which happened and there was this general which was trying to recruit more and more people in the army and he came to the village and all male members of the village were taken by force to the army except for this farmer's son because he was handicapped and he was injured. So he escaped and then again these villagers came and said, you are so lucky that you are some escaped. But he was again very calm, quiet, patient, continuously constantly doing what he was doing. So this is like why I keep narrating the story is there would be those events which would keep happening in the market. Something which is very good, something which is not so good, we should not react at every instance and every incident. So all these kind of instances will continue to happen. I think the biggest thing is let's be stable, let's be patient. It's not like a, the pendulum of the house is that it goes one side, market is high, it goes other side, market is low but there is also neutral element which is there. So I think something which is badly needed in investing, journey and markets is people should have a stable head on their shoulder, some tarar which is necessary in investing. If you really want to make good returns, be patient in life and I think that is where the difference lies. You can't be just hopping in, hopping out and I keep saying whether it is your job or whether whatever they do it in, even in jobs also I have seen people hopping in, coming, don't spending too much time. So when you spend time in the organization then only you grow, you build your equity. It is like similar in the market as well, you spend time, you will see the equity growing. If you just continue to get influence on what's happening around you, then you will never grow in life. So that is where I think there are so many similarities when you look around and you can weave those similarities everywhere, whether it is personal life, professional life, your health, wealth, anything and everything. Absolutely. I could not agree with you more because there are so many nuances that you can pick up and then those also resonate in terms of whatever you can apply in terms of so many learnings that you actually do in that respect. You mentioned about whatever the dispassions and of course from that. At any point of time, if you want to, any time narrate such a story, I would be more than happy. So please, please don't be sorry about it because it is very interesting and it is always good because you are able to connect things so much better when they just put it into perspective. But from a youngster's point of view, as you said, it is a lot more of an instant in that respect. One of the five things that a young investor today needs to look at when they are looking at stocks. See one clearly for any young investor or anyone for that matter, I think learning should continue and reading, learning, you have to be a student forever. Anything and everything you keep learning, that is the biggest important thing that I would say. Second is, like I said, never have any regrets in life, whatever that you are doing. A good day will always bring happiness. Best day will give you good memories. A bad day will give you some bad experiences. A worst day will give you lessons in life. So never have any regrets in life. Be humble and just surrender yourself to the market. You just can't go and say, I know everything and I will be able to do it. to maneuver the market because I have made some money let us say for one or two instances you cannot become an expert rely on the advice of the experts and and and please hear them I will do not assume that you know everything I think that is the third thing that I would say and keep learning keep keep honing yourself keep ensuring that you keep learning anything anything new every day we all are learning any every day we are all students forever. So there are a few things like you were asking about what investors whether it is young I would say or anyone. The five things that you know of course you should keep learning any investor should be aware of what is happening around and they should keep learning and they should when they go to bed they should be a little more wiser than what they were a day before. I think that is something that is clear because whenever you come around any large and very any any big personality they are all learning machines and they are always learning something always reading learning so that is one area I think which everybody should be aware and should be second is they should they should be consistent in their approach very disciplined and we keep hearing and when we were in school I remember the method class method our teacher used to tell and I am sure you have not heard about it. Key fortune favors the brave luck always favors the brave so that is where I think the luck will come into play only if you are courageous if you are disciplined in this patient on time and and and use that consistent approach and put in a hard work don't that is that is clearly one of the key traits that I would say people should have third I would say they should not get influenced too much by what is happening around them they should not blindly chase performance case may offer me so written they can be here. I will avoid that herd mentality. So bias here completely both and everybody tends to do and we have so many groups on WhatsApp CAO, college group, engineering group, MBA group, school group and everywhere market and politics I think these are the two things which get discussed everywhere and markets being the top I would say so somewhere don't get influenced by what the performance is and don't chase performance continue to do and go with your goal and objective in mind with a consistent approach and don't have any fear of failure or regrets in life that is what I was saying a good day will lead you to happiness best day would lead you to memories a bad day would give you experiences bad experiences and a worst day will give you lessons. So at the best don't have any regrets in life don't have any fear of failure be courageous be optimistic I think that is very very important because a pessimist will always sound intelligent when you talk to a pessimist you will come back ke ha boss you are intelligent one that but the money optimists you because he believes and that is where the India growth story and other things come in because you have to believe what is happening around you and you have to believe that you will be able to make it and you will be able to go through this journey so that is where I think always the courageous leave aside this fear of failure and etc etc and while investing is one part from the life in general cut out negativity cut out toxicity cut out all those negative traits I think what your life into a lot of more happiness optimism positive behavior positive traits and things will always turn around positive for you. I think those are some of the things that I would say to any investor you speak about like optimism right so interesting do you believe in like the red car theory do you know the red car theory the red car theory basically is that you know like a simple question that did you see any red cars today when you were coming here I did see no okay so what if I tell you that now when you are going to leave you actually know about the red car theory then there is a possibility that you might attract or see or try to spot some red cars okay you know so they say the red car theory is very similar to actually how luck and optimism works okay it's like when you know something before you're leaving then you attract that sort of energy that sort of luck that sort of that's how luck works they say so that's the red car theory you know so now that you know and you go to go back so you're going to hunt for a red car possibly as opposed to when you came in here you're not actually looking for a red car so it's very interesting when you speak about optimism because it's like luck attracts luck when you're in a positive mind frame it actually attracts that as well yeah so when you talk about luck I can't resist myself by telling you I have read about types of luck okay these are these are something very interesting so there is something called a umbilical luck because that's the parental luck the place where you are born your parents that is the luck and you can't control that right but lot of it is decided by the place by your parents the kind of culture the kind of sunscar ethics integrity things that they values which they invite in you so that is one side of the luck which is not in your control but that is that plays an important part clearly an important part in terms of key other my mom was a physics lecturer so I always was very good in physics and you were exposed to the books in the college library and there was a Mahal of studies in the Mahal of questions he saw that and that was the natural intent and attraction towards solving complex issues and problems in physics so that's the that's one luck which is not in your control the second luck is like which is which is because of some talent that you have these are the prodigy luck which again no very few would have Allah Tawangishkar or a Sajntin Rulkarnot you or me or anyone can become one in so many millions that's only one Sajntin Rulkarnot one Lata Mangeshkar so that's one luck which is again not in your control one luck the other two which are within your control is something luck by motion luck by hustle luck by execution so there are people around you in your team of course you also run a company but where you would have your teams around you they would be set of people within your team who would raise their hand and say yeah I would do this and anything and everything they would be the first people to raise their hand and say okay I'll give it a shot I'll try those are those the hustlers who want to execute everything and you love them you really love them and you want executors in your in your teams and I have so many in my team who want to take those ownership responsibility accountability as I want to do it so that's luck by motion and that creates that positivity optimism the more you create those motion you get more and more chances to portray yourself to be no difficult situations come out with flying colors and then your supervisor and everybody feels happy about when you create your equity in the system so that's luck by motion and the fourth luck of course is when you know certain things and you try and practice those things and become an expert in that particular area or particular domain again within your control largely but the luck by motion is something which is therefore anyone and everyone and I strongly believe if you are a good executor if you create that positive energy around people if you are very optimist very very optimist of strong believer then you will see things falling in place largely for the weather it is markets or anything you will see things falling in place but you have to be a strong believer like you said the red guard for you I will definitely try and spot a red card so you know I had a few more questions on the business side as well actually because I think from a consumer's perspective I think they also understand a lot of things but from a business business and also there are some questions which are in my mind or some topics at least I'd say you know what's the what's the ideal piece sort of a ratio because that's something which extremely important right for anyone who is especially at your end of the business that people should really be that you look for does that those are again related to stock picking questions yes of yeah so I would like to refrain myself right such question because and again the PE ratio varies from company to company and there are performing companies who are doing well at a very high PE ratio also and at a lesser PE ratio also companies can be picked and done well so it is not one of those key factors when you start picking a company or picking a stock is this the only thing no there are multiple other factors your return on capital employed return on equity how is the turnover how is the bottom line growing what are the kind of margins that a company enjoying what is the kind of data equity ratio which the company has what are those terms of trade which are company has in terms of your company let's say when you are supplying certain things to your buyers what are those trade terms how many these date or credit that you offer similarly with your suppliers are you giving payment immediately or you are buying time so those are some of those integrities which get into when you get into those picking of the right companies in terms of how they are making their entire money so that's that those are the questions that a fund manager largely gets into and do those research in terms of PE is one factor price to book or price to earning multiple those ratios which people can refer to and these are not the only ones. So there are multiple things that go into selection of a rights talk or what constitutes a good company to invest in. But a lot of actually the experts that we talk about the so-called experts that we talk about whether on social media or even in general, these are the sort of reference points that they actually use a lot of times. Is it because it's difficult for the consumers to understand it? I keep saying key investment is only risky only as risky as till the time you understand it and you know why you are getting into it. Don't get influenced or don't feel that investment is risky because of the jargons being used by these financial influencers or market experts, Tom tomming about their jargons on social media and then getting into the kind of returns that they are making. So I think we should completely be avoiding those financial influencers and so called experts. Actually, had they been so expert they would not be just on social media, they would be doing far more important things because being busy is not just being productive, you are busy on social media that doesn't mean that you are productive and efficient. So, another thing that actually just came to my mind is like the concept of Mr. Bus, which happens to a lot of investors. A lot of times as we spoke about peer pressure and stuff like that. Now say for example somebody enters a stock, say reliance when it was basically three or four years back when it was like running at 400, 500. Some people entered at about 1100 as well, you know, not today of course it has rallied, it is crazy. A lot of times you meet peer friends when somebody misses that bus, say at 1000 call was at 1000. How does the investor go about if he still he or she wants to invest in that product? See frankly again, these are very far and few examples. Nobody can ever time the market. If somebody claims that he can time the market, I can only enter the market when markets are at all time low and book profits when markets are at all time high. That is very, very rare. Nobody can do it. If they can be of course one or two examples that we keep hearing but there are hundred other examples like you rightly said where people have really missed the bus. And there are many more such examples which would come, many more companies that you can invest. So you have to play the game and again from a retail consumer or a business consumer, anyone it is, the biggest and the best part is go slow and get into SIP route or an STP route where you invest at regular intervals without getting actually impacted at all when markets are high or markets are low or did I miss the bus or did I not. Because a lot of customers are still not there in the market. They are still waiting on the fringes because they expect the markets will fall and that time I will enter. There are people who have already entered and they will of course reap the benefits but I think at the end of the day if it is a long term investing which I always believe it should be then these ups and downs don't matter. You know that you have to stay put, you have a long run where you have a long time which is available with you. You really don't need the investibles of course. Now and here on you know that you have five years to any years where you can stay put and stay invested then let's say invest it and stay put and I am sure you will make decent returns. But in general practically as well like say for example now you mentioned right. Again I have come to this question the reason is because I feel that there is still a little bit more that we can talk about. Like you give an example about speaking to your relationship manager or fund manager right. Say for example your customer of ICIC, actually your bank. They say they give a call that okay you know what a stock is at X price right now and it might be a good idea for you to invest into this product or this stock and we feel you give you an X amount of returns. For some reason I am cautious I feel okay you know I am not going to do this today. Suddenly it starts rallying, it starts rallying, it is gone. Now I am not really sure whether I should enter or should I not enter as simple as that bare basics. So hence again for such a if there is any conclusion in terms of what stocks to buy what not. I think the easiest part is to get the mutual fund route because that is where the fund manager comes and took play and he will do. Rather than you decide what stock to go and what not because largely I have seen MF is the easiest and the in the simplest simple way to get into investments and you end up making decent returns. So I would say there are many more such instances and such examples that would come and you would end up making decent returns. The only thing is like this is that you will not get the mutual fund. You will not get the mutual fund. There is a place in a jungle. I asked Chidia how to make your wish. So it is like that. It is like that. It is like that. You have to create that portfolio. You just can't create a mail on day one. You can't and you will never. So if you want to create a mail you have to go by that. Tinka Tinka route small investments through the SIP route or a Lamsam route also but stay put and stay invested in the long run believe in the India story and just stay put. You would get influence by doing what's happening around you. Exactly. You have to realize and take care of that. Every boom is important. It is not that I have done it today. I will not do it. I will not do it. I remember that investment is part of it. You never miss your EMI payments because of your duroz core and civil impact. So similarly, never miss your investment. If that is something which has to get deployed in the market without you knowing it should be automatically getting debited and deployed in the market. That's how it is. But how important is that also today? I tell you a simple example. I was actually reading and like you said, I consume a lot of whatever articles I keep reading try to educate myself regularly. And I was actually reading that somebody especially like I have a two year old son, you also have it. So they say that by the time he is going to be 20 or 30 or probably 25 when he wants to do an MBA, what is costing like maybe 10 to 20 lakhs today is going to cost about like 2 or 3, 4 crores. You know at that point of time which is, I mean that is a number and that's a number which is a good number. You know in that respect. Do you see that trajectory and that's why these investments are so important? Yes. Of course. And they give that level of returns. Of course, power of 20 is like completely believe power of compounding. It's the eighth wonder of the world clearly and the more you invest and stay put for longer duration, you will see the benefits in terms of power of compounding. First two, three years you might not feel that your portfolio is going but after three year, four year, five year, you will see the portfolio jumping and getting doubled. So you will see and for any goal that you have or anything, any dream that we have, all of us have, we live in a material world, we all want to buy a new, large house, a big car, foreign international vacation and child education of course, the kid has to go to foreign university, what's the other and there are of course, these are goals that everybody has and all parents have. So you should deploy and you should do a cash flow planning of financial planning and when it's financial planning, I believe it's very very personal in its, it varies from individual to individual and everybody has their own set of goals and they are funds which are available and they that will vary from individual to individual, how much you can deploy, what kind of lifestyle that you lead and how much you can save and that gets deployed. So some people tend to spend more and hence the investable or deployable surplus is far lesser and hence to that extent, they need to start far earlier and go for a longer run. Otherwise there are people where they will lead a decent life without getting into too much and hence they have a decent surplus available, they invest and there are specific funds I have seen people, you are marking for specific goals as well and these are those funds where keep plowing and keep growing and NAVs have from, from why, right from what 10 rupees at the NA4 launch have taken 2000 and 3000, so those are the funds but how many people stay put right from start of the funds till that time, I have not seen many who would have stay put so long, I think that is easier said than done, while we keep talking about patience and staying put, don't get impacted, have a balance head on your shoulder, abla gaeraho, daroma, bikarajas, isop, but while these are all things that we try and educate but people tend to get influenced so much clutter, so cut the, cut the noise I think and you know there is one term which is actually being in the news of lately a lot and I am sure you know what that is and that is front running, so can you explain to a viewers what front running is and what is that concept, to put it very simply it is kind of a insider trading where you get some insider news and basis that you put your individual trade before the large trades. come into place of if you are a fund manager, you know that this is what you are going to do and hence you put your own trade before that. So, that you benefit because you had that information, you were the front runner in that case because you knew that information ahead of the curve and you individually also decided to play the game which is very very unethical in my mind and should not be, should not the right way to do it all. So, it is what we call like the first move as advantage is it usually because knowing ahead of time and then trying but first move advantage is ok. But here you are using it to your own benefit, you are not using it to the large public benefit and hence it is unethical, completely unethical something which is not fair to the customer. You know is insurance a good bet to be in as in terms of like a from a market perspective and even from general perspective. See honestly if you treat insurance as an investment I have my view but from a protection perspective clearly you should have a term plan which covers you clearly and second you should have a health insurance as well. So, both on the life side you should have a term plan on the health side you should have a health insurance to come into play and which should be a floater plan which covers you your family your kids your parents everyone. So, health insurance because of the kind of hospitalization and the expenses which are shooting up what they used to be today if you go to any hospital you will find the admission charges and the room charges the doctor's surgery everything is shot up so drastically. So, you should have a good insurance cover and that too from a provider where the claim ratios are excellent otherwise you keep struggling in terms of whether you get a claim back or not and a decent size of health insurance you should not be thrifty about taking a health insurance which is a lower cover you should have a significant kind of a cover because the health expenses are really going going the roof. So, that is one second a term cover is very very critical and you should have a term cover anybody and everybody who is the soul earning member in a family I would always you would always advise that the person should have a term plan. So, that is to take care of any exigencies which can happen at any point in time so as to take care of the family. So, that is these are the two things that we always guide of course, there are investments insurance plans being which which get publicized as you lips where there is an underlying investments which are there of course, coupled with some kind of a cover which is which is a part of it. But for investments I would still say go the mutual fund route or go through the DMAT route. All right. Thank you so much Girish for doing this and having some conversation. I hope you had fun. It was so good. Thanks a lot. Thank you. Thank you so much.