How to Implement Water Engineering Strategies for a Sustainable Future – Ep 275

What if you could go to a conference where project managers from the architecture engineering and construction industry were sharing their best practices, their strategies, their tools and templates for how they tackle the biggest project management challenges. Well now you can. EMI is proud to have created the first event of this kind called AEC PM Connect. For all the information about this annual event that helps project managers connect with other PMs in the industry, please visit www.aecpmconnect.com. Water scarcity is one of the most pressing issues of our time. As we move forward into 2024, it's becoming increasingly important that we fight solutions to this growing problem. As engineers, we have a critical role to apply in addressing this challenge and it's imperative that we understand the complexities in while insolving it. Join us as we discuss innovative engineering strategies, cutting-in technologies and collaborative efforts aimed at addressing the pressing issue of water scarcity with Jennifer Brun, PE, CFM, C.E. Vice President, Water at WSP. I'm your host James Taylor and this is the Civil Engineering Podcast. It's now time for our Civil Engineering conversation of the week with Jennifer Brun. Jen, welcome to the Civil Engineering Podcast. I am so excited to be here. Thanks for having me. Jen, can you start by telling us a little bit about yourself and how you go a career as a water engineer? Yeah, my career has almost taken me through the entire water cycle. My undergrad is in environmental science and I started my career sampling groundwater. My nature and the fixer and I felt like an environmental science. I was characterizing all the problems that I wanted to fix it. I went back to school to become an engineer and I spent the first part of my 25-year career with river systems, the stormwater and surface water systems, a lot of ecosystem restoration. Then when Superstorm hit the New York Metro area, which is where I live right now in New York City, I pivoted towards coastal flood protection. That led me to some of these larger infrastructure projects, like urban stormwater systems, dams and whatnot. I think I'm definitely a Macurious and I love learning so it's probably why I've taken this path. It's landed me in pretty much the perfect role for me right now in the East Water Lead at the WSP, which means I get to interact with folks across 25 different offices and they deal with the entire water cycle. That's great. You've gone through a lot of different pieces of the water sector if you want to call it. Is there a favorite or is it favorite right now, I guess, is where you're sitting at? I think it's like, I just love learning. Right now I'm learning a lot about PFAS treatment, which is a fascinating place because it's actually a super exciting time in the sense that we have this nut to crack. We know how to extract it from the water, but we don't have scalable destruction technology. It's the races on. We're not just in this mill where we're running. It's those types of things where it's these nuts to crack that I'm really enjoying it. The interesting thing right is water been around forever. You think water is water, but all the time these things are coming up with new technologies and new things that you need to worry about and you brought up PFAS as a big one. It seems to be at the top of everyone's minds right now in those forever chemicals. Yeah, absolutely. Can you talk about how water engineers have become a central player as we grapple with the head-leighing issues of today? Yeah. Most of us are like these introverted engineers that have been happy to play in the background and recently moved from those print positions to the center stage. It's not good news. We're on the news because there's another 1,000-year-old van or a community doesn't have clean drinking water or a reservoir. The levels are going down and revealing head-and-truthers and dead bodies with these longer durations of droughts are happening. It's rare for us to have those awesome fixes. Those really innovative ideas. They don't really make the headlines. I think it's really important for us to highlight where our ingenuity and where our obsession with being a problem solver is actually moving us forward. No doubt, we are dealing with some really big challenges right now. It's climate week here in New York City and I have had my head filled with really awesome insights all week. But we've been here before. We've dealt with challenges and we'll be able to find our way out. One of the things that I hinge on is I went to school in the 90s and a really big hot button back then was acid rain. Since then, we've reduced sulfur dioxide by 95% of the emissions and then we've reduced nitrogen oxide by, oh sorry, 95% and 90%. We did this by great policy but also we engineered our way out. We found these cleaner ways to reduce emissions of the cleaner energy. So we can do this. We can get through and it's a really exciting time now. Like I said, there's a lot to modern nuts to crack but we have this trifecta that we're in where we have this massive need, right? The climate change, aging infrastructure, population changes. We have massive funding, not enough to do everything that we need to be doing but we actually have funding from the bill and the IRA and then we also have public endorsement, right? They actually, not everybody agrees on the same thing that we need to be doing but they all agree something needs to be done. So it's this beautiful time to be in the field that we're in and certainly we're very popular. Well, it's interesting. You brought up the aspect of the 90s and the success that we've seen since that point in time, even myself as an engineer, don't sit there and think about, okay, it was an engineer that really made this happen. And so, you know, thinking about how much we have to communicate with the public and show the importance of engineering because that really is the ones that are solving the problems related to this. What's your take on public involvement as it comes to out, out, out, sharing out engineering? Absolutely. I mean, you know, actually one of the events that was that today are this week. One of the speakers said, you know, we've got to be careful. Like we have this, you know, red, red, you know, to say just how big of a crisis, whatever it is, climate change, aging infrastructure, PFAS, right? And that helps get that garnered the support. But we also have to show that we've been here and we can solve it because, you know, one of the things that is a risk is inaction because people feel overwhelmed by it, right? So, you know, showing, we have to define the problem and communicate it in a way that's tangible, but there's things like past lessons learned. You know, there's ways that we can show that there is a path forward and we just need, we need some time and we need engagement. The issues facing water engineering can be a little bit daunting, specifically water scarcity. This seems to be seem, seemingly a finite problem. How can there be creative solutions? And, you know, aging water infrastructure is often overlooked until it becomes a critical issue. Oh, yeah. How do those things all come into play with water engineering? Yeah. So, you know, to pick out water scarcity, you know, look, to first define the problem. So, we all know if climate change, certain parts of the country are going to have more rain on average, which is where I'm sitting. And then certain parts of the country, like South East, US, South West, US, and the Southern and Great Plains are expected to have more durations of drought. And to put water scarcity, you know, into a perspective from a global perspective, the World Bank estimates that by 2030 will be at a 40% shortfall of board demand is versus where our resources are. And climate change is part of that, but we also have population increases and that aging infrastructure you were talking about. So, it does sound daunting, but there are solutions. Yeah. And like you mentioned, like the scarcity aspect, probably not here in the US, where both, or in the eastern part of the US, where you and myself are both sitting doing this interview, but the Western side of the country, it seems like that is definitely the hot topic of, as you slowly see, you see the pictures of the, the Hoover dams going down further each year. Yeah. Like, that's not just a water issue, that's an energy issue as well. And all of that combined comes together of, okay, that's a little bit of a scary task to take on. Yeah. I mean, what's your solution? There are solutions. I mean, there's three main buckets. You know, one is water establishing some new sources. And then the second is data, using data to then manage the resources that we do have. And then the third is fixing the leaks, right? Fixing the water losses that we have. And so, you know, to unpack that first one for a second, the main component of the new water source is recycling of wastewater and stormwater that we normally tree and discharge. And it's a concept that's been around for a long time. Actually, the first portable waste water system was in operation in the 1960s in a southern African country. So it's been there for a while. And we do have cities here in the US, there's two cities in Texas that have these similar systems, but rare. More common is something that we call indirect portable reuse systems. And so that's where you treat the water and then you put it through a buffer system. And that would be either an aquifer or a stream or a reservoir and then you extract it out. And so, you know, those are more common in California actually, orange county has had one in operation since 1975. Wow. Yeah, really. So these are great successes, but they're not the norm. And a lot of these projects have the word like demonstration project or pilot project, right? So, you know, we're not there, right? So, and we have to get through that public acceptance period, which is where that communication is really key. How do you kind of manage the public perception? Like do you remember the toilet tap? Or if you heard of that, right? Yeah. I mean, that campaign alone words, right? Super strong. I think set us back like two decades. And so this is where like tenacity and good communication skills, which are probably like the rest of people all get things. Right. You know, come into play. There's a great case study in California. Right now, California has put an ambitious plan that they want to have 100% of their wastewater recycled by 2035. So, you know, let's see where we are now. Let's look at San Diego. San Diego right now has 85% of their drinking water coming from surface water sources. In the last 15 years, the prices have tripled. That's definitely a risk factor for, you know, how long these resources are going to be. And then we have climate change, you know, increasing sea level rise, then it's impacting, you know, it's a lot. And everything together, and everything together makes it even more of an interesting world to live in for sure. And makes the job, I'm sure, even more fun to you never know what each day is going to hold. The second piece of that, you said there were three aspects. And the second piece you brought up was data. So how is data and more specifically AI playing a role in these items, such as managing and and predicting infrastructure failures leaks before they cause major problems? Yeah, I mean, like you said before, right? We just haven't invested. It's out of sight, out of mind. And with anything, you know, you need that economic, the economics of it, but you also need the political will and the public support to get these projects forward. And that's where data really comes in because it can help you build that business case and garner the public support. You know, it can be irrefutable evidence, you know, to debunk misconceptions and also reinforce your messaging. So it's really critical from that side of when we have to move in a direction to help, you know, get the buy-in in Cape Town. There was the zero, they zero crisis, I think that's 17 and 18, 2018. No, it was a key part. Data, they had dashboards to show, you know, the reservoir levels falling, the water quality, the rainfall rate really communicate to the public, which helped them get the buy-in because at the peak of the crisis, folks were allowed to have, it was around 13 gallons per day. So and they achieved it, but it created that data. So and then on the side of the resources, the best place to look at how we've used data is with the leak ePipes. You know, it's really powerful because it puts us, you know, the data in the AI put us in the position of looking forward and predictive mode, right? So data can help us with all those things I just mentioned, but then we put it all into these models and into the AI and then we're sitting in a power position to help navigate around some of these situations. So you know, we're using it for actually a steering accuse has a great program where they're using it with their acoustic monitoring so they can plan, they can understand like where are the leaks and then they can prioritize like this one's going to blow soon. We need to like, you know, navigate resources here, these other here, you know, we can monitor them for a while, you know, and they'll be priorities as they're evolving, but we're not gonna, you know, disrupt neighborhoods just based on Willie Nilly, they're gonna plan. So, you know, I'm very powerful. It sounds like the difference between data and data plus AI is taking up from being a reactive mode to being more proactive in what you're doing in related to, okay, this might leak at this point in time or hey, we really need to fix this before it becomes a failure. Yeah. And that seems to be is that kind of what you're saying is that kind of yeah, it's a key. Yeah, it's a great, I mean, that's the power of it is that it can take all of this real-time data that's swirling around and help you make predictions and make decisions. And in a world where budgets are tight, it also helps in that because you're able to plan better with what might end up, you need to spend your money on. Exactly. Exactly. And who knows, remember all those like engineers that went into technology and you know, they might be boomeranging back, you know, because we do need them for, you know, our models and such. So throughout our conversation today and even before we even started talking, you highlighted that strong communication skills are really a key element to defining the solution and getting the work done. Where have you found that this element is most critical? I mean, reality is it's critical in all areas over my career. In careers, rise in fall, projects, rise in fall, you know, based on either the strength or the weakness of communication skills, but for projects, I found that, you know, the one area where communication skills are particularly critical is a result, is around resiliency projects. So these are like coastal flood protection or stormwater. This is a situation where you have stakeholders and community members that following event, they have this heightened state of vulnerability, you know, there's emotions, there's a sense of urgency and when you're in that state, as the recipient of information, you know, you're not at your best peak area, right? And so that means that us, on the other side, as planners and engineers, need to outperform to kind of help make that connection. Then on top of it, you know, we're introducing concept to the community members that are engineering and science, right? And so, you know, again, you have to be really thoughtful about how you're laying out the information in order to gain that level of understanding and trust. And then, you know, there's a regulatory complexity that, you know, muddles everything up. Yes. That we all have to navigate together. And so, you know, actually, just today, I was at an event and I ran into somebody who I haven't seen since Sandy. After Sandy, there was a Euro Rising was a program that was set up to basically work with the communities to create these community-based resiliency plans. And I was talking about, you know, this podcast and, you know, that it was like the result of heavy urgency on the communication. And he said, yeah, like, we were really therapist, you know, like, I was, and I remember, it was like, yeah, I actually was crying in a lot of me, you know, like, you're involved in your engaged, you're trying to work through to find the best solution. And really, the way that you navigate out of that is a reasoning, like asking questions and list them, right? First, and then be making sure you repeat back, or, you know, somehow communicate back that you've heard them correctly. Like, okay, these are the goals, you know, is that right? Are these your important assets? So, confirmation. And then, you know, sifting through to say, okay, well, what are the parts that are fixed? You know, critical, and then what are the parts that are flexible? And what are the tensions and trade-offs as we, like, work through the different alternatives? So, that has definitely been a key place where the communication skills are important, and just one, I have to say, because it's really dear and near and dear to my heart, but the other part that's where it's really critical is just in how we're, you know, advancing inclusion and diversity. Really honing soft skills is on the onus of all of us, because that will help us create this workspace where all the great ideas can come to the table. And it's the typical stuff of understanding your unconscious bias and, you know, active listening, but, you know, one thing I guess, you know, I'd like to throw out there is it's also about putting yourself out of your comfort zone to be in situations where you're exposed to different perspectives, different opinions, and listen and see how people react, right? Because, you know, otherwise, you're near the incubated date, and, you know, and that's really where you get to learn is kind of when you're, you pull that a very comfort zone. Let me ask you a question. Do you think over the last four years we've gone through COVID? Do you think communication has changed from pre-COVID to now post-COVID? Just yeah, I would say so. I mean, I think for sure there's the, I've heard it from so many of my colleagues like that one-on-one like this, we've gotten great at, right? We've gotten great at expanding our networks, you know, because we're communicating and we are in this place of like, let's just go find the people that we need and they can be on the other side of the country, like clients are more open to have experts sit wherever and serve them, which is beautiful, right? Right. Where I don't think we completely come out of it is I have still seen like the one-on-one, you know, just and like my colleagues and I will say like, whoops, we are exhausted like after a conference because like we're just not used to it, you know, in the case small talk. Like small talk was hard after. Like I was supposed to use do it, you know. Yeah, it gets exhausting after a couple days of a conference and you're like, man, I'm just I'm tapped out of communication I'm done like let me just crawl in a spot dark place all by myself and and let me just regain my thoughts It's it's an interesting point because we add all that time, you know, kind of to ourselves and coming out of it now Yeah, that that in person is kind of it can become exhausting for sure Yeah, I'm still I think I'm still regaining those strengths, you know, so what it what is the most important advice and that's such a huge word there And I'm not sure if there's probably one thing that you'll be able to say but what's the most important advice you would give to engineers Working in water resources today Well, you know definitely invest in those obstacles, you know like that is the crux of it all if You know, we have great idea that's great, but unless we can communicate them more so that we could communicate them in a way that the other party will hear them It's you know, you're never gonna have the impact that you know, your great thought could have so I would definitely say that but on the other side You know if I get tapped to choices Yeah, yeah, just that's fine. Yeah, the most important advice is or like that things advise it will go with that Yeah, so you know just be curious, you know, we are and really at the point where we're like rapid change right we were just talking about the PFAS earlier about how it's like I mean It's made the scalable destructive technology and so yeah, you know We have to keep up like you just you have to be curious and modern and be open and I guess expect those points of friction like in that curiosity Like if we're gonna be pushing the envelope to find those solutions like there is no playbook Yeah, you know, we have some anchors and you know to X-ray like there's certain things that aren't changing But you know there's no playbook for how we're going to actually come out of this and grapple with the some of the problems and so And that's where you know back to the skill set you know soft skills But you know anticipate and maybe get a little comfortable with some of that friction points like you're gonna have to push the envelope Yeah, I would say that if you're an engineer that's coming out of or if you're in college right now and you're you're Engineering and hey, you know when I graduate I'm not gonna have to learn anything else I would I would advise that you might want to rethink that because I mean realistically everything that you do from the moment you leave is Is your learning and your growing technologies are trained or changing the way we do things are changing and you know I loved it. They said be you know what you said there, you know, you want to always be Thinking about what's next what's coming ahead and being on the forefront of Of all pieces, especially is it pertains to water resources. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and all of your life and all life right? Yeah, I mean you're right. I mean if you weren't man I can't imagine if I didn't learn a single thing over the last number of years since I graduated where I Where I get today, but now those are two great great pieces of advice is work on those soft skills and then You'd be curious to keep learning Keep going all right It's now time for the C. E. hot seed segment of week with Jennifer Brunton all right All right, you ready to go ready all right Jen, do you have any specific rituals that you practice every day for example? Do you have a specific morning ritual lunchtime ritual things that you do consistently daily that can Shure it to you being a successful professional Yeah, I am very big about boundaries. So I am very much like you know under the mindset that no great Decisions or ideas happen from your iPhone after you know, six thirty a.m. A clock at night And so you know, I try to truly engage with my family then I need that downtime And so I'm very much a person that needs that separation in order to come back fully charged the next day What is one book that you recommend to engineers regularly or just one book that you found to be extremely helpful in your professional and or personal development? So I don't have a book. I have the Harvard Invest Review So because my needs are constantly changing It's so you know whether it be how the deal is complex or how to manage you know Millennials or how to you know navigate having balance in your life and you know being okay with setting those boundaries You know the Harvard Business Review has just been an awesome tool for me, you know that definitely might go to I love it I love it thinking back on your managers of the past or even current managers picture your favorite manager What made them your favorite? So my favorite manager who is the most impactful manager to me was the manager that I had when I was having my children His name's Gul Khan and you know, I was at this pivot point of becoming PM to Certain to have people under me and then I had my first child and You know all my years under him, you know, he always promoted me there was never this Feeling like because I was even more protective of my personal time I'd also work to reduce schedule, but you know, I was I was given so many opportunities And he would pull me in the room to try to explain finance stuff to me or you know, and so I have a lot of respect for him The other thing is I would watch him leave at three o'clock to go watch his son play a baseball, you know And here's a senior VP, you know, that's carving out time You're gonna come back online later, but he showed me that you can have a family and you can still be ambitious And those two can exist in one place. So yeah, he's definitely the most impactful our words are one thing but our actions lining up 100% completely I love that I've got one final question for you and that is the critical civil engineering career elevator advice question Yes, that's a mouthful. If you got into an elevator with a civil engineering student and had about 30 to 40 seconds with them What career advice would you share with them? First, I tell them they made their choice super exciting time and hold that excitement, you know, be a lifelong learner Have a mindset of experimentation like in your you know, if you set out especially if you frame things as you know You're in this mindset of experimentation. It gives you that room to to try out different paths whether it be solving a problem or You know, you may be your manager to an UT and you're gonna try out different formats of how to engage But you know, it sort of and even letting other people know that you know, you're you're in this mindset of experimentation So you're welcoming input. So you know, it's that curiosity Having you know that mindset of experimentation and being self-directed I truly am very passionate about that that you know, there are a lot of great programs mentor programs and whatnot formal programs that Really the best that I have found in my own personal life is the ones that I've self-directed like creating those Micro learning sessions by like for me my weakness is finance like it just that's just not where my interests are and so Well, I will you know make time and seek out, you know, my finance people to help me unpack something and you know So it's like those micro sections like I don't need the MBA I need you know something specific and then I learned something from that so be curious You know and have that experimentation mindset and just always drive for that learning process Jen thank you so much for joining me today. Where can our listeners connect with you? Link done. Find me on like done. Yes, please. I love it. Well, thanks Jen again for everything and As she said connect with her only been she's probably got a lot of things to share. Yes so much. All right. Thank you James Please remember you can find the show notes for this episode at civilengineeringpodcast.com They will find a summary of the key points discussed in today's episode as well as links any the resources websites or books mentioned during this episode Until next time I wish you the best in all of your civil engineering endeavors