Speaker 1Hi pals, welcome to the Hack Your Own PR podcast, dropping in here because I'm a little bit excited to tell you about the Hack Your Own PR on-demand library. Now, you don't have to wait for the next program to launch. Instead, you can access the on-demand library anytime when it works for your schedule. You can learn how to become a publicist in just four hours.
Speaker 2And launching this week, we now have two new mini masterclasses, the go-to expert and the sellout brand, a product PR masterclass. If you are interested in finding out a little bit more about this offering, please jump over to my website. I'd love to see you in the on-demand hub. Welcome to the Hack Your Own PR podcast, where I chat with journalists, editors, producers, and publicists about the commonly misunderstood world of PR and how you can nail your next pitch. I'm your host, Edette Barry, publicist, PR mentor, and founder of the Hack Your Own PR program that teaches entrepreneurs how to DIY their PR. This podcast is recorded on Bundjalung country. I acknowledge that sovereignty has never been ceded. It always was and always will be Aboriginal land.
Speaker 1Sam Hussey is the head of New York. Sam is the editor-in-chief of 7news.com.au, where he was publishing a cheeky 120 news pieces daily. The change of pace to business, entrepreneurship, and luxury lifestyle is a welcome one, as Sam discusses, as he's tackling a slower, deeper style of journalism that allows him and his team to interrogate issues in the business ecosystem with a little more time and perhaps a little more finesse. With new content series coming up, on video, a new membership for women, and a deeper focus on the female-led ecosystem, Sam walks us through what the Forbes readership get excited about and how to win a pitch with him. If you're a startup innovating and changing the way things are done, or a thought leader with incredible industry insights to share, this episode will help you understand exactly how to score a feature or contribute a seat at the Forbes Australia table. Thanks, Sam, for coming and having a little chinwag with us. It's lovely to have you here.
Speaker 3Pleasure to be here. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1Yeah, well, I feel like now's a really nice time, having spoken with Sarah and Anastasia on the pod. It's time to talk to you, Sam, and also I think like a really nice time to reconnect on, I guess, that evolution of Forbes as well in the time that things have been in market. So, yeah. Do you want to kick us off with giving us a bit of a Sam backstory?
Speaker 3Yeah, great. Hard act to follow, following Sarah and Anastasia, but we'll have to give it a crack. So, for a way of introduction, I am the Head of News and Lifestyle here at Forbes Australia. I've been here for about 16 months now. It's gone very quickly. Prior to that, I was at Channel 7 as their Editor-in-Chief for the 7news.com.au. So, it's a bit of a change-up. It's a bit of a change-up in coverage and what we cover, but, yeah, I've been a journalist for about the last 10 years, I would say it is. It was, yeah, always a career path that interested me, and here I am today.
Speaker 1So good. I think the pace between, you know, like a daily news platform that's, you know, producing at a whole other rate to moving into the business and luxury landscape, I'm imagining there's a few differences there.
Speaker 3Yeah, definitely. I think I got a bit of a shock when I swapped over. At 7, we were publishing about 120 stories a day. So, that was, you know, the DNA of that website was breaking news. A lot of that was spent covering daily COVID cases, which I was very happy to see the back of.
Speaker 1Not bad. Yeah.
Speaker 3So, coming over to Forbes, I remember, obviously, I think it's pretty fair to say it's quality over quantity, which is a big take for us. We want to dive into those longer form features and tell those, you know, stories of, you know, entrepreneurial capitalism that we felt like there was a gap in the market for. So, a very different day-to-day for me now since leaving Channel 7.
Speaker 1Yeah, absolutely. Talk us through what a day, week, month sort of looks like for you in your role.
Speaker 3Yeah, look, no two days are the same for us here at Forbes. I think from a digital standpoint, we start every day with a. Chat and Slack, like a lot of publishers. Anything that's broken overnight, we have a good relationship with Forbes US. So, one of the first things we'll do is check and see, are there any, you know, international stories that might connect with our audience here? At the moment, they're heavily focused on the upcoming US election, which we're pretty happy to stay away from unless there's a direct impact for our readers. So, yeah, after that, it's, all right, what are we covering today? Are there any longer form features we've been working on? Is there anything happening? We're not a breaking news site, but if there is a big developing story, I guess our, you know, approach is, is there a Forbes take on this story? Is there a way we can add our two cents to it?
Speaker 1Yeah. And so, you're, you know, convening in the morning, planning out the day, and then I'm assuming your role also has a bit of networking, rubbing shoulders with the peeps, you know, building out that folio of who you're.
Speaker 3Yeah, absolutely. And I think, you know, as we are essentially a startup, so having our, you know, our brand out in market, a big part of the role is networking, as you said, rubbing shoulders with the right people. It's a great way for, not just to get our brand out there, but we found some great stories out of it. Like, as I said, we, we felt like there was a lot of those, you know, entrepreneurial founder stories that weren't quite told and hadn't found their voice. So, getting out, you know, meeting them at these events. Um, that's been a tremendous avenue for us finding stories.
Speaker 1What's your appetite to go out to events? Like, how much can you do in a week, Sam?
Speaker 3There's quite a few. So, as heading up lifestyle, the invitations, I'm not going to lie, are relentless. Early on, I was just saying yes to everything. And I was like, this is great. Like, to be honest, I never left the newsroom at Chet and Seven. So, this was, um, I was like, there was such a great social element to it. And about six months later. Six months in, I'm like, I gotta, I gotta start being a bit more selective about this. So, look, it depends. Are they, are they an advertiser? Um, do we see them as someone who's brand aligned with Forbes? Is it the right, you know, is it the right event for us? Because you do, you get invited to some random, random events that you're suddenly thinking, well, what am I doing here?
Speaker 1Not going to every ribbon cutting.
Speaker 3Correct. So, yeah, look, we're still out, you know, I would say on average. Maybe three events a week.
Speaker 1Yeah. Right. I mean, that's, that's a lot of time away from the desk.
Speaker 3A lot of them are after hours. So we try and limit, you know, if they're going to be, you know, a
Speaker 1lot of time away from the couch, then.
Speaker 3Yeah. If they're going to be during that time, we've got to make sure it's, uh, it's, it's worth it.
Speaker 1Yeah, totally. Alrighty. We'll talk us through, the Forbes DNA, you know, having already talked about this a fair bit, maybe even just talking about like where things are standing at the moment in Australia, like what you see as being the real definition of Forbes audience.
Speaker 3Yeah. As I said, I think the DNA and how it's, how it's sold to market is that that level of entrepreneurial capitalism. I think when people think of Forbes who aren't readers, the first two things that come to mind are the rich list and Forbes 30 under 30. So we have done our. We've done two editions of Australia's 50 richest, and we'll be doing our first 30 under 30, um, dates to be confirmed. We really want to make sure we get it right before we, you know, go to market with it. But they're the two big ticket items that I think everyone immediately associates with the Forbes brand. So obviously that is not enough to fill six magazines and a daily, a daily news site and endless social media. So yeah, we've, you know, wanted to create our own voice in market as I mentioned. We felt like those founders stories didn't really have a voice in market. You know, there's some great business publications here, but the Forbes international weren't covering the Australian stories. So that was a big, that was a big reason for launching it and, you know, a big focus for us, both print and digitally.
Speaker 1Yeah. Awesome. So let's break it down. Cause obviously you have, um, some new cool things that are happening. You also have a video series. There's a video. events let's go category by category because you have the digital platform and the mag let's start with digital and mag the the categories like the content pillars that you're always uh exploring
Speaker 3sure so i guess first and foremost entrepreneurs both across and i'm going to keep saying that but it's true entrepreneurs is sort of leads a big part of what we do digitally and there's a segment for that in the magazine as well innovation and it's the you know two letters you're going to keep hearing for the next i don't know 10 years ai um finding what that means for an australian market it's a very oversaturated topic in a way at the moment but it needs a story that needs to be told so we're focusing on that yeah business and then also lifestyle at the back of the book um and online that luxury lifestyle space we've found people tend to connect with that through the through the forbes brand
Speaker 1yeah totally and then um tell us a little bit about what's coming in the video space yeah that's a fun
Speaker 3one for us so we're you know in our second year in market we felt like there was a great opportunity to sort of expand that voice into video um so we sort of soft launched a couple of these last year and now we're looking to build on that we have our drive with the ceo segment so i guess picture james corden couple karaoke just in a far more business type setting so that involves our editor-in-chief sarah usually in a in a beautiful car from one of our partners you know driving through the streets of bondi asking them the questions that we discuss in the magazine and and online he
Speaker 1is a badass being i'm gonna multitask like that i watching that first one gave me the heebie-jeebies trying to like be able to articulate myself in a coherent way whilst driving a luxury car yeah
Speaker 3she's um gotten a pretty impressive ability just to go from one task to another and needs next to no prep time it's quite impressive she can just you can put camera in front of her first take done so a skill i'm sure most of us are pretty envious of
Speaker 1yeah totally and uh you've also got a couple of other video segments yes the other video segment
Speaker 3we've got coming up is beer with a billionaire so we had a we had a soft launch of that last year with judas nielsen and a couple of others um it's exactly what it sounds like uh it's uh one of the usually sarah in the homes of one of our billionaires uh discussing their success story how they got there usually over a nice cold pint yeah it's a fun one yeah great
Speaker 1i mean it's really exciting to see the investment in video format i think it's um a fun one reach some new audiences as well
Speaker 3definitely look i think that'll be a very interesting space in the next six months in australia um what the future holds for meta uh with their decision to not renew the news bargaining deals they signed in uh 2021 so what that looks like for news publishers is a big topic of discussion amongst a lot of the not just you know big players in nine seven and news court but a lot of the bespoke independent publishers um yeah i think there's a few a few nerves um but it also could be an exciting time for the
Speaker 1industry exciting is a really nice way to paint that sam
Speaker 3it is it is it's a great
Speaker 1time to be in email marketing
Speaker 3it is it is it is scary for those publishers who have spent years building up that audience and i guess you know this is why they talk about don't rent an audience on your audience right um totally but it's like like renting a flat at any point in time it can be taken away from you and you're left with nothing so the the skill and as you mentioned email marketing is a big part of that owning your audience and having a direct way to connect with them it couldn't be more important
Speaker 1yeah well i guess like the the benefit that i think forbes has is that it's a professional relationship with your readers so i feel like the inbox is a really natural place to be communicating with them whilst it might be infuriating not being able to use social media potentially um linkedin and email marketing are really natural place to talk to the forbes audience they expect you to be there they're happy for you to be there so um yeah probably luckier than perhaps some of the more you know younger demographic publications or those that are really heavily in the lifestyle space
Speaker 3yeah absolutely i mean we have a presence on instagram but if i'm being completely honest we never put any time or resources into facebook i know i know it might sound a bit crazy um as a publisher especially coming from a publication that had 23 million facebook followers at seven and it was like you know that was fishing with dynamite you'd have one story and you can blast it out across 10 different accounts and you're just looking at your numbers just saw but again it comes back to that you know is that really your audience um you're renting that and as we've seen zuck and meta are not scared to say see you later so we our focus from a social media standpoint has been edms linkedin and instagram for a bit of brand
Speaker 1awareness yeah well i think that's probably a nice place to be in really so let's talk a little bit about who that audience is because i feel like forbes has a couple of different segments of of readers
Speaker 2do you want to talk a little bit about who they
Speaker 3are yeah absolutely i think um you do have that traditional audience but again we've only been in market for you know coming up two years opposed to forbes us which has been around for 105. um so i think that brand name we have to respect that and the audience that comes with it and there's a traditional business readership that comes with that we found our audience as far as forbes goes skews a bit younger and you'd see that from attending events like our forbes women's summit and business summit is that it is a younger crowd than you'd probably expect it's a great split of gender as well obviously with forbes women we've seen you know we felt there was a gap in the market for uh women-led businesses and startups to to tell their stories so that's been a big focus for us as well as giving them a platform to share their stories as a result the audience has sort of
Speaker 1matched that yeah well here for it thanks very much for making the space we appreciate it um okay well so can we have a bit of a breakdown between say editorial content and news and features and the contributor pieces because obviously they you know to someone who's maybe like new to the pr world understanding the difference between contributor content and you know written by the uh team talk us through what you've got there
Speaker 3yeah so obviously the foundation of our editorial content is going to be for staff the journalists we've got in-house however a part of the business that i love is the contributor program which you know offers the platform for industry professionals to add to the conversation and it's you know this happens at other other publishers as well i think in the u.s there is something like 400 plus contributors filing regularly for their website it's different here we don't publish that many that much content or have that many contributors on hand i guess the the key for us with the contributor program is what can that person do to get their content out there and what can they do to get their content out there and what can they do to get their content out there and what can they do to get their content out there what can that person add to the conversation what's a part of this story that hasn't been told and what is their insight that can really yeah add to this
Speaker 1story yeah and i think um that adding value and adding a new perspective is probably that's the stretchy stretchy brain part of uh pr and thought leadership but it's also where the true experts rise and pr and thought leadership but it's also where the true experts rise and it's much less of a leap for it's much less of a leap for them because they've got the finger of the them because they've got the finger of the them because they've got the finger of the pulse of those hot button issues and pulse of those hot button issues and pulse of those hot button issues and when they emerge they're like cool i'm when they emerge they're like cool i'm when they emerge they're like cool i'm ready to talk about this so it's kind ready to talk about this so it's kind ready to talk about this so it's kind of that where i think credible experts of that where i think credible experts of that where i think credible experts get to step into almost that journalist get to step into almost that journalist get to step into almost that journalist role but really do have to have a nose role but really do have to have a nose role but really do have to have a nose for what's happening in the news cycle for what's happening in the news cycle for what's happening in the news cycle and although you say you know you're not and although you say you know you're not and although you say you know you're not like a like a like a mass news site uh you know delivering 120 mass news site uh you know delivering 120 mass news site uh you know delivering 120 stories every day that um proximity to stories every day that um proximity to stories every day that um proximity to what is trending right now is still what is trending right now is still what is trending right now is still really important for your audience yeah
Speaker 3really important for your audience yeah really important for your audience yeah absolutely i think in the last couple of absolutely in the last couple of weeks we've had a couple of uh submissions weeks we've had a couple of uh submissions weeks we've had a couple of uh submissions from the head of people at from the head of people at from the head of people at canva and atlassian um canva and atlassian um canva and atlassian um who are both you know very forward who are both you know very forward who are both you know very forward thinking in the future of work so they thinking in the future of work so they thinking in the future of work so they offered some great insights as to you offered some great insights as to you offered some great insights as to you know as people start coming back into know as people start coming back into know as people start coming back into the city how do businesses and companies the city how do businesses and companies the city how do businesses and companies um manage that in terms of the working um manage that in terms of the working um manage that in terms of the working from the office expectation these are from the office expectation these are from the office expectation these are great stories we can tell but it's even great stories we can tell but it's even great stories we can tell but it's even better hearing them straight from the better hearing them straight from the better hearing them straight from the companies you know because they're not companies you know because they're not companies you know because they're not all success stories they've had they've all success stories they've had they've all success stories they've had they've had trouble with the two everyone looks had trouble with the two everyone looks had trouble with the two everyone looks at them as if they it's just you know at them as if they it's just you know at them as if they it's just you know phenomenal and nothing ever goes wrong phenomenal and nothing ever goes wrong phenomenal and nothing ever goes wrong but hearing how they've managed it to but hearing how they've managed it to but hearing how they've managed it to make it work is sometimes better told make it work is sometimes better told make it work is sometimes better told by you know straight direct from them
Speaker 1by you know straight direct from them by you know straight direct from them yeah absolutely i think like it's also yeah absolutely i think like it's also yeah absolutely i think like it's also that that future of work and the hybrid that that future of work and the hybrid that that future of work and the hybrid conversation it just like conversation it just like conversation it just like it's almost like you can't get enough of it's almost like you can't get enough of it's almost like you can't get enough of trying to define it and make sense of it trying to define it and make sense of it trying to define it and make sense of it because it is such a a tricky balance to because it is such a a tricky balance to because it is such a a tricky balance to walk
Speaker 3at the moment yeah i think you know walk at the moment yeah i think you know walk at the moment yeah i think you know just what works for one company it's not just what works for one company it's not just what works for one company it's not necessarily going to work for another necessarily going to work for another necessarily going to work for another and they emphasize that in their pieces and they emphasize that in their pieces and they emphasize that in their pieces head to forbes.com.au if you want to head to forbes.com.au if you want to
Speaker 1head to forbes.com.au if you want to read them read them read them we'll be checking so i guess like we'll be checking so i guess like we'll be checking so i guess like something that's interesting and this is something that's interesting and this is something that's interesting and this is a conversation that comes up a lot in a conversation that comes up a lot in a conversation that comes up a lot in the business landscape is like the business landscape is like the business landscape is like you know the businesses they get an you know the businesses they get an you know the businesses they get an opportunity opportunity opportunity as a startup in the early stages of as a startup in the early stages of as a startup in the early stages of their business and what um quantifies i their business and what um quantifies i their business and what um quantifies i guess like what are some of the guess like what are some of the guess like what are some of the defining traits that can help someone go defining traits that can help someone go defining traits that can help someone go yes i'm ready to pitch to forbes and yes i'm ready to pitch to forbes and yes i'm ready to pitch to forbes and this is a this is a this is a you know this is a forbes story versus you know this is a forbes story versus you know this is a forbes story versus actually no this maybe has something that's a bit more of a different publication and it's not necessarily a Forbes flavour?
Speaker 3Yeah, I think your company has to be at a certain point in its journey. Obviously, at the very start, it's probably not a story that's in a position to be told in Forbes. But as I said, it's where, you know, not limited to your Canvases and Atlassians. There are the start-up stories. One of my favourite segments we do in the magazine is Quick Takes and it's a spotlight on three or four entrepreneurs, start-up founders doing, you know, what we think could turn into a really cool company.
Speaker 1Yeah, totally. Awesome. And so if you had any advice for someone that is potentially going to be interviewed by you, what's going on on your side of the fence? So how are you preparing for that sort of interview with a founder? And what should they expect ahead of that interview?
Speaker 3I think on both fronts, it comes down to preparation. From our point of view, we want to know what this founder has accomplished, you know, prior to sitting down and having a chat with them and vice versa. We want them to understand what our track record on stories like this looks like, how we cover these stories. You know, it's how you connect with an audience.
Speaker 1Yeah, yeah. So I guess it's like that rule of ten that I always come back to is go and read ten articles on that publication so that you have a really good sense of the flavour, the tone of voice, the direction that the conversations go in so that you can prepare information or conversations that suit that kind of flavour. So I guess like the step before that is obviously, you know, securing one of those coveted, you know, interviews. What sort of things are you looking for in a pitch that help you understand whether someone is going to be interesting and great talent for your audience and maybe also like when is it too much?
Speaker 3Yeah, you get this question a lot. I think it comes down to when that pitch, you know, the first thing you're going to see if you're pitching over email, know your brand, know your numbers, know your product inside and out and then, you know, the other side is that know what we're interested in. So any PR would know how much media hates getting a mass sent pitch. It feels very impersonal and there's a lot of them. You know, the ones when they've actually included someone else's name at the top of the email. That's always a fun one to read. Hi, Dan. You get a lot.
Speaker 1Which publication is Dan at that's getting something similar to you?
Speaker 3I don't know, but he's, yeah, Dan, Dan, I've been getting a lot of Dan's emails, so yeah.
Speaker 1So some things that actually are helpful to understand in a pitch, like is like market size, business revenue, like what kind of things help you? Cause to me, those things are more Forbes flavor than if I was going to pitch to say Marie Claire, where it's going to be more social issues or whatever. Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 3Absolutely. And that comes down, I mean, pretty much even to our lifestyle content, it's, you know, quite a often we love covering that luxury lifestyle content, but it's, it's gotta have a Forbes flavor to it. So yeah, the revenue numbers behind it, how, you know, the growth rate, how that's all tracking and also just that, that startup story, you know, when, at what point did they realize the company was going to go from A to B there's a success stories our audience really connects with.
Speaker 1Yeah, totally. So you mentioned before we were chatting about some of the content that's done really well. That your audience is really interested in. Do you want to talk us a little bit about one of your regular contributors, Lucio, and what really stands out about his content for you?
Speaker 3Yeah. As I mentioned, AI is obviously, you know, uh, endless topic at the moment and we cover it quite comprehensively cause it does, it has an impact on so many industries and so many lives and it's going to just, you know, uh, excel from here. So. We wanted someone who would add to that conversation. And Lucio, uh, who's, you know, uh, an authority of general Bay has probably filed half a dozen pieces that really build on the content we've already covered. We're going to discuss the businesses who are doing the incredible things at the forefront of it. Open AI, Google, Sam Altman, all of the business stories that are happening like that, what he was able to add to that was, you know, another level of conversation that we found really connected with our LinkedIn audience. Um, it started a conversation about what it means for the future of work, uh, the future of certain industries. And that's, for me is sort of the ideal contributor that, that, you know, I mentioned we're looking for.
Speaker 1Yeah. And you know, with those really like high performing, great contributors, you're also looking for them to be available to potentially contribute on that, um, longer term relationships. So something that might be. A monthly sort of cycle is what you're looking for.
Speaker 3Yeah, correct. We want them to sort of find their own voice within the Forbes platform. So it's all good and well to, you know, put forward an op-ed here or there, or, you know, a submission, but what we'd like to, and this goes, you know, deeper into having a discussion with the potential contributors is, is what can they add to the conversation long-term?
Speaker 1Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's like not being a one trick pony and actually having like a depth of industry experience that you can draw upon. And that knows for yeah, what's happening right now.
Speaker 3Yeah, absolutely. All right.
Speaker 1So hot seat moment here. Um, if you could give some feedback to publicists, candidly, is there anything that you would like to share with them?
Speaker 3Know the publication. Don't mass send an email out to 10 different websites or, um, magazines. It's screamingly obvious when it does come through, but yeah, as you know, your, um, read 10 rule, I love that. I think that, that sums it up beautifully. Have a look at the website, have a look at the magazine, have a look at the social media accounts and understand what it is, not just what we've covered in the past, but what direction we're going in it. Are we suddenly leaning more towards a certain topic, much like the contributor model, what would this pitch add to the conversation?
Speaker 1Yeah. Awesome. And obviously, you know, with the changes coming through from, well, potential changes from meta and the impact that can have on the media landscape, is there anything when you look ahead, you know, from a, a digital lens that you would really like to see the media landscape improve on?
Speaker 3Yeah, I look, I think it's, um, as I said, this time next year could look very differently, uh, to, to what's happening at the moment. There is so much. I mean, I think a lot of the deals under the news bargaining code expire at the end of June, so that's widely tipped to be when meta might pull the pin. So yeah, for anyone who's not across it, basically, if your site, social media accounts are listed as a news or media agency, there is a very good chance that content will no longer surface, uh, to an Australian audience on Instagram or Facebook, which is hugely detrimental to. Any publisher that has spent years, you know, decades building up that audience. So how these publications adapt and respond to this will, I think, really separate, yeah, the latest in this industry.
Speaker 1Yeah. It's going to be really interesting. Like, are we going to get embedded with a little news microchip and our, um, delivered directly? Like, how do we communicate with the uncommunicatable? It's kind of like. That same dilemma of, I think a lot of brands that want to market to young people that, you know, there's just so many challenges in finding one central point that makes sense to communicate with people.
Speaker 3Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you look at the daily Oz who probably did it better than anyone else. Their whole approach was connecting with their audience on Instagram and it's a really engaged audience. So. Understandably so there. Like a lot of digital publishers frustrated with what this means because they have such an engaged audience. They spent such a long time building it up.
Speaker 1So, but do you think their audience is who they think their audience is? And I just say this from a, I am 38 years old and I love the daily Oz content. And I know a lot of millennials that like that's their, you know, snackable, easy to digest news content. And. I have a 16 year old. Son. I don't think many of his pals are consuming daily Oz in the way that I think older, you know, people are.
Speaker 3Yeah. Let's be honest. Our attention spans are getting shorter and shorter. So, you know, for even 16 year olds and daily Oz might be too comprehensive a read these days.
Speaker 1Or I feel like it's one of those things where, you know, it's like the ASMR content and it's like, it needs to have three separate things. So an episode of family guy with news headlines and some weird. weird glob moving in the background, maybe that's where daily oz has to go that's
Speaker 3terrifying to think about that that's what we're going to have to do to get eyeballs on our websites and social media accounts so fingers crossed it doesn't go into that that much of an extreme
Speaker 1well sam it's been a treat to chat with you thank you so much for making time
Speaker 3absolute pleasure thank you for having
Speaker 1me and that's a wrap thanks for tuning in to hack your own pr if you loved this episode please go on over and subscribe review and even give it a shout out on social media you can find me at odette and co on insta until next time guys
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