How to get B2B Clients from LinkedIn - B2B LinkedIn Ads Masterclass

If you're a B2B marketer then this is the episode for you. Because today we're sitting down and we're breaking down the single shift that you can make right now in order to build more demand for the business that you work for. I'm joined by LinkedIn ads and strategy expert Mark Woodland. Not treating LinkedIn in marketing is like a lead bending machine. We rate dwell time above like click-through rate and engagement because most people don't click on ads. He's going to show you how B2B teams should be using both paid and organic LinkedIn. Where marketing works best to B2B brands is about building up the brand over time and if they trust you like in B2B that's the number one currency is to build enough that trust because every purchase is complex. He's going to walk through a step-by-step playbook on how to use it on a shoestring budget or no budget at all as well as a high budget campaign. Let's get into it. Hello Mark. Thank you so much for joining me today on the credit market on a sunny day. Yes. First in a very very long time. I've known you've I guess for a few months. Three months now. Yeah. Maybe a little bit longer. Obviously we've had your colleague George on already talking all things LinkedIn. But we've come today bringing you in to kind of I guess build on what we learned from George a little bit and understand the word of LinkedIn and how I guess B2B marketers can use it in order to get ahead of everybody. But use it right not just use it use it right. Of course. So you're from a company called Winbox of course. Why don't you tell me a little bit about what you guys actually do in where your expertise lies? Yeah, sure. Winbox is a specialist in LinkedIn as agency. So LinkedIn is all we do and the reason why we do that is in the past we were kind of more of a full service like digital marketing and content agency. And we've just seen a big opportunity with LinkedIn that it's a channel that has so much potential. It's got such good targeting and can work really well for me to be businesses. But the vast majority of businesses aren't executing on the channel properly and they're wasting so much money. Hundreds of thousands of pounds we see be important to LinkedIn and they've just set up the campaign wrong or they're approaching it in a wrong way. So we set up Winbox to help address that issue and make sure that the companies that we work with in the B2B brands are executing properly on the channel to make the most of it basically and get the return that the channel can offer. Yeah, perfect. I remember when I met you guys was it a TMWF? Yeah, yeah, well, yeah. And I was like, good, thank God. I haven't ever seen an ad's agency that's linked in specific and the growth of it. I mean, even since we met then, which is May last year, it's been exponential. Yeah. I always say about LinkedIn, it's like one of the most powerful tools, not just because of it being a platform for businesses, but it kind of eradicated something called the Little Black book. Yeah, people would have all these secret contacts and here's your emails and your phone numbers because everybody is now accessible. You can find whoever you want from whatever company and basically drop them a message. Yeah. Directing. And there's been nothing like that for business for a long, long time. I'm going to dive straight into this with a big question. Yes. What do you think is the biggest mistake that B2B marketing teams are making right now? Yeah. So the biggest mistake that we see is just how they view and proceed marketing. So many companies just view marketing as lead generation. And that's all it is. It's about short-term results. It's about MQLs and about lead generation at all costs. Whereas where marketing works best would be to be brands. And for any brand, really, is that it's about building up the brand over time. So that you build up your brand presence so your audience know of you, they like you and trust you and then when they're in market, they'll come to you because we know in B2B that purchases are so complex and also they don't happen often. People aren't buying a new CRM every of a week. Purchases rarely happens. Most people you come across aren't going to be in market. So what is about with your B2B marketing is that building up that brand presence, building up something that we call mental availability. So that when they are in market for a solution like yours, they come to you first. And if they come to you first, you're going to have the very best chance of winning that work. Yeah, I mean, so LinkedIn for me, and I think I saw your clip actually of your podcast where it was you and George and you were talking about, listen, we're not seeing direct result, but the marketing we're doing it. Leeds are coming in and there's enough of a steady flow of business to understand that the system's working. You can't always directly attribute that to it was because they saw this clip on Monday. You know, you can't, it's very hard to measure like that sometimes, unless you're kind of putting direct links into, but it's a slow funnel, right? So and as long as kind of the system is working, you have to assume that marketing's got a lot to do with them. It's just because people are seeing your face, right? We were speaking about it before where you drip feed enough content and subconsciously people are just going to associate you with what you do. So whenever that's something, whenever the for you guys, whenever LinkedIn comes to mind, and people think about they have to improve their LinkedIn presence, and they're going to think, oh, Mark, win box. That's all he talks about. Yeah. And that's the whole way in even the game. And I think that where people go wrong as well with BD marketing is it's almost like attribution over everything. Like we need to see that we're advertising on this channel and here's the direct return that is got. And BDB marketing just doesn't work that way because when we're on LinkedIn, especially when we're scrolling through LinkedIn, we're not there shopping, we're not there searching for a solution because often we're not in market. So if we can engage people in the feed, then when they do get to that point, when they are in market, as I said before, they know like and trust you. So they're going to come to you. So if I'm on LinkedIn every day, helping people with their LinkedIn marketing and advertising and talking about how it can help their business, as you say, then when they eventually get to the point, when they think actually we could do with some external supports, help us with this. We want to invest more budget here. We want to take it more seriously. I already know Mark already, no winbox and already trust them. And if they trust you, like in BDB, that's the number one currency is building up that trust because every purchase is complex. It requires big budgets, often requires change management, video organization, element of risk, multiple people involved. Somebody's not going to bring you into their company or get you involved if they don't trust you because if it goes wrong, then it's often going to be on their heads or have a big impact. Yeah. People often say, especially for video content and we have a lot of clients who have a similar experience is that because they post so much video and they're showing their personality and who they are, people often think they've already got a relationship with them before even meeting them. Yeah. Super powerful, right? Because you've not even met this person and they think they know you and they understand that you're very good in a field. Yeah. So the power for that is, in terms of actually, I want to progress a little bit, video. Yes. I think me and the world, LinkedIn's been saying for years that it's video first, but it seems that videos don't really get the biggest amount of reach still. Do you know what that is? Yeah, it's interesting because LinkedIn come out and they said, this was last year, they made a big kind of bold statement that we want to be a video for BDB marketing powerhouse. So they were really kind of going in on, we want people to produce video content on the platform, but you're right, we often see this is organically, it might not be video that gets the most impressions or gets the most reach or the most engagement. You often find that text posts still work really well and get a lot of impressions or it might be carousels, they perform really well. Video doesn't quite live up to that hype that you believed. Yeah. I still think it's the best format for the platform because of that point you just made is the best way to build up trust. And that's what we're always looking to do with our BDB marketing is just to build up that trust. But if you can actually see someone, see the whites in their eyes, hear their voice, it's genuinely them, it's not kind of AI copied that they've written up, then that goes a long way forward to getting to know them and build up that trust. So I think that even if it doesn't get the most reach, it's still the most powerful in terms of getting people to stop and to scroll, get to know you, build up that trust. Yeah. So we're always encouraging our clients to do as much videos we can, especially video, it doesn't have to be kind of high production, it can be kind of low-fi production, but video which is based the camera so they can see you and they can hear you and get to know you. Yeah, I mean, I run a production company and like we often tell people, yeah, you use user generated stuff. I can't like a million percent you have to. Yeah. It's important, it's real. It's a little bit more real. Always a place for like, especially in B2B for the high production stuff. There's a place for both. Yeah. Like, you know, I kind of maybe shoot myself in the foot by saying that sometimes, but there needs to be also with the interaction thing. From my perspective, I think if people are watching the video of you on LinkedIn, they're spending more time on that post. So the lightliness of them interacting with it becomes lower because they've already spent that time. So an instigation of action is going to be a little bit less frequent. Yeah. But yeah, like you said, it's doing more, it's and how I mean, lurking, people lurking on LinkedIn, it just happens. Not everyone's clicking like and share all the time. Are they? It's not. Yeah. And that's a really important point because I think dwell time on your post or on your ads is actually one of the most important metrics. Yeah. And we route rate dwell time above like click free rate and engagements because most people don't click on ads. I think if you've got a 0.5% click free rate, that's a really good click free rate. So that's 99.5% of people not clicking on ads. Most people don't react. They kind of sit in the background, watching your content. You'll probably get this all over the time where someone will come to you and say, we want to start a podcast or we want to improve our podcast. I've been following you on LinkedIn and seeing your posts for ages. So now I want to have a conversation with you. And you're probably thinking, but they never engage with any of those posts. I have no idea that they were actually looking at those posts, but they were. And so I think that don't underestimate how many people are kind of lurking in the background, as you say. And dwell time is so important because then if they're watching your videos or reading your posts, they're spending more time with you, they can receive your message, get to know you. So anytime's right, your front of mind. And that's the whole point. Absolutely. Can you go? more. So when you were talking about marketing, especially on LinkedIn being used as more of a, that everyone's thinking of it as Legion, Legion, Legion. Where are you seeing this happen? What are people doing that's making this an occurrence? Yeah, so one LinkedIn, this is typically people just want to run like Legion formats. We want to run bottom of other words, call to action ads to say to people, book a demo, fill out this form, download this piece of content. And that's usually for two reasons. One is that they've had big targets set by the board in terms of MQLs and need MQLs now. So they're kind of forced into and pressured into that short term thinking, even if they know that's not going to be the right tactic for long term success that they're kind of forced into that. But also because they need that direct attribution, they need to see, okay, I've spent X on LinkedIn, I've got Y back and it needs to be directly, directly attributable of why is my budget's going to be cut? Right. So it's for those reasons. So that's that's typically where we see it. And it's not effective. Like LinkedIn isn't very good as a last touch attribution channel or a lead generation channel. And that's because as I said before, people aren't on the platform shopping or looking to buy. They're there for over reasons. They just want to learn someone in the feed, engage with the feed, build their network, share their opinion, they're not there to buy. And when they are in market, they don't then wait until they see the next ad and then go to confer. They come directly to you. And when they do that, they usually go to your brand or go direct to your website or a colleague shares a link to your website with a with a never colleague. And that means that LinkedIn is missed out in the attribution picture. So that's often where brands kind of undervalue them, they benefit the LinkedIn is bringing to their business. Yeah. It's not a click and bot like buying in B2B isn't click and buy. It's not tick tock shop. Yeah. It's there's there's stakeholders people that they've got to go through and it's a whole discussion. People got rope proposals and everything like that. It's completely different. So yeah, I can see what you're saying. I've never tried to use it as that. It's just, I think from what I'm understanding from this conversation is how do I give value to an audience? Yeah. It's almost like dangling the carrot enough for them to go, this is to I need to engage these guys at some point. I understand. It's a long term brand builder. And people often will run these bottom of funnel CTA add to a cold audience as well. Yeah. And the expectation is that their offer is so good that they're going to see an ad, click on an ad and then convert straight away. And we know that buying cycles in B2B is just so much longer than that. I think the average buying cycle is like 220 days. So that expectation is just unrealistic. I can relate to that. Yeah. And it just needs the people thinking, okay, we're investing this channel, we're not getting a return. This channel doesn't work and then that's not the case. This channel linked in could be the core of your marketing and kind of the biggest catalyst to your success when it comes to your marketing. But you have to be using it properly. Yeah. Yeah. It's like what I imagined magazine advertising was for businesses many, many years ago. Really. It wasn't it. It was like there was never a direct attribution to it working, but you knew you had to be there. Yeah. Because someday someone would think of that thing. That's it. That they need you for. Yeah. And people tend to get that more in B2C. I think B2B is just a bit behind like B2C. We know that you invest in brand and you look for overall uplift then in sales and trends. You don't necessarily are able to attribute a billboard to success. Yeah. And B2B I think just has a little way to catch up on that and get to the point where we value building the brand above everything else. Because if you do that and we see this time time again, if you prioritize your brand, you will get more success for your marketing. You will get more growth in your business. But it's just overcoming that barrier of when you shorten leads, when you perfect attribution in order to get there. Yeah. Not only that, but it's become more people led. That's the best thing about it. We heard of Varna Heinen on recently who specializes in executive profiling for businesses. So kind of taking key individuals from a business and championing them. Yeah. Why? Well, because guess what? Somebody a brand isn't sat there watching your video. A person is watching your video. So that's something else that's come over from B2C. Obviously very late as usual. But now people are going, oh, we need to put our people at the front of this. Because our people are what are going to sell the dream and sell the products the other way we think. Not this logo. Yeah. And it's why I guess LinkedIn doesn't really reward business pages as much as it does personal pages. Is it? Yeah. Yeah. When people are on LinkedIn, they want to engage with people. They want to engage with personal profiles rather than company profiles. If you see something from a company profile, you see it as an ad really. And we don't want to necessarily be exposed to ads so we can just scroll on by. So that is what we're seeing is that when you run, they call them fault leader ads. So that's where you boost the post-run personal profile. And when you focus on the personal profiles of the experts in your business, you get the better results. And that's because ultimately people buy from people. Yeah. And that element I mentioned before, you need to build up trust. What a best way to build up trust is to showcase your experts in your people. So that's what we see that work best for ourselves. Like as an agency, most of our work comes in from our personal brands. And from clients that we work with, it's the same theme. So we're always trying to push that as much as we can. I think the beauty of it at the moment as well is still most B2B brands aren't doing it or aren't doing it very well. It's still relatively new. So actually if you do now prioritize putting your people out there, maybe this is founded led marketing or showcasing your expertise. Actually it's a competitive advantage when you're on the channel. You can outperform your competitors because they're still just for an everything behind a company page, for an everything behind company ads. And hoping that gets the best results. Yeah, it's just not it won't connect. I've never connected with a brand like that, especially B2B. It's hard enough and B2C to like, you know, the nikes and stuff have got it right. But to get to that point is such a long journey. Yeah. It takes decades and decades. So it's like, use the people. Yeah, the ones with the smiles and the eyes, you know, the people that can people can look at. Yeah. And you still want the brand adds to be part of the equation. You still want to run them as well. But they supplement the personal side of things. They work alongside it. They kind of reinforce that message and reinforce that your legit company and they want to work with you, rather than it being the vast majority advertise that there are about 90% of their budget and their focus on the company page and or a company brand. And it just doesn't work as well. Yeah. So somebody's got somebody if somebody was building a B2B strategy right now, marketing. What would that look like? Yeah. So the first step is always strategy. What we do in this for, who we look into appeal to, what's the offer, kind of understand why you're there and what you're looking to achieve and kind of set realistic expectations. And then once you've done that, for me, the next step is building the audience. And the way that we do this for our own marketing and for our clients and what we advocate for and I would advocate across all B2B marketing is through building a ABM list. So actually building a list of accounts that you want to go after. And it doesn't have to be like ABM traditionally was where people think, okay, I just pick 10 or 20 or 50 accounts and they go after them. This can be thousands of accounts. But the benefit of that is that if you have a list of here's all the companies you want to go after. It gives a focal point to all of your marketing that everyone knows for all the channels that we are operating on. We want to appeal to this audience. And then for that audience, you almost saturate them. So they're really going to get to know you. They're going to see you all the time. You're going to get to that point where which I think is like the holy ground be to be marketing where people say, hey, I'm seeing you everywhere. You just appear to be everywhere. And it might not be that they have the biggest budget. So they're not everywhere. But they're just giving that perception because they're going after a defined audience. Also, it saves leakage. Like a lot of brands will spend a lot of money, advertising and a lot of that has actually been shown to companies that aren't ICP or the right fit. We see that all of the time. So we're kind of make sure that actually the brands that you go after are right fit and are ICP. If they make an inquiry then it's going to be a good inquiry for you. Also, it helps with sales and marketing alignment. Your sales activity is going to be going after the same brands. Marketing supports that. Sales can follow up on intent data from what marketing is creating. So it kind of aligns everything as well, which works well. So I think build that audience out. Know exactly who you're going after. And obviously then understand their pains and what they're looking to achieve and how you can help them basically. Yeah. Next step then for me is the media plan. So it's what channels are we going to use. So for us, that's always linked in we focus on what are the different formats that we're going to run in that channel. We're going to do video, text, carousel, for leader ads. What's going to suit best for our budget and our audience. We kind of map out that media plan to make sure that is optimized against our budget. And also then the messaging guide. What are the key messages that we want to get out there and our marketing and we want to reiterate. And you want that to be the same few messages over and over that you're delivering because there's only really once you get bored of saying something that people are starting to listen. So you really want to be repeating those key messages over and over. So you've you've got the strategy, you've got the audience, you've got the media plan and messaging, then you go into your creative production. So make sure you're producing good assets and a variety of assets. You've delivered in the same message, but you want to deliver it in different ways. So you produce that creative. You're distributing it. And then the next step for me is making sure that you're measuring things properly. And we'll go into measurement in a bit more detail. But that's absolutely key in B to B because we know it's not going to be every channel leads to direct leads. And that's all you judge those channels on. You need to make sure you've got proper measurement framework to know over time if this is working or not and set the proper expectations, which is we know a month one, this isn't going to be an influx of new leads. It just doesn't work that way. Be grateful it does. Like this is going to be a long term commitment. So you've got your you've set strategy, built the audience, built a media plan, created your content, jif you do content, you know you're going to measure it. The final step for me is something that a lot of people don't do, which is acting on intent data and having mechanisms. and workflows to do that. Okay. So within B2B marketed because a lot of it's brand, you're building up a lot of first-party intent data. So the way that this looks in LinkedIn is in LinkedIn campaign manager. You have something called a company's tab and it's how you, all of the companies that are engaging with your brand, or again, if you company page, and it would give the base scoring on their engagement level from very low to very high. And what you want to do is you want to make sure those companies that are kind of medium to very high engagement, they're showing signals of intent. You want to make sure you're acting on that intent to try and not just have the brand side of it, but have the demand capture side of it as well because obviously you do want to be doing both. It's not just all about the brand. And that can look like making sure you're setting up retargeting audiences properly. If people are engaged with your ads, make sure you're hitting them with ads that are maybe a bit further down the funnel, like social proof ads, like testimonials, CTA ads, high value offers, that sort of thing. But also it's aligning with sales. So what we do for some companies is we set up automated workflows. If someone is engaged with your ads, we have that company data. We can enrich that company data using tools like clay with the right contacts of in those companies you want to talk to. And then we can set up workflows of in LinkedIn to make sure that you're viewing their profile, you're inviting them to connect, you're maybe sending them messages. Not in a kind of big brother is watching you kind of cringy scary way, like I've seen your engagement of ads who have a conversation, but much more subtle. Like just reaching out to see if it's the right time for us to talk about this proposition right now. And so it's something a bit subtle to try and to try and start that relationship and build that relationship. Or it can be as simple as you just pass that information over to sales and they as part of the outbound, they prioritize those accounts that are engaging to a higher degree. But that's the kind of final step as well, which is making sure that intent data you're building up isn't just lying there, you're actually acting on that data. That's brilliant. I think that would help a lot of people just when they land in the minefield of the platform as step by step easy to follow, start life's way. Right. And for the ads themselves, what would you what do you use for you? Like if you were doing your ads, use like your podcast clips or what kind of stuff do you use in order to do the thought leader ads? Yeah, it's always a variety and you want it to be kind of the same message in different formats because then it just lands in different ways and it appears to different people. So we use the podcast clips. So we record a podcast. We take shorts on that podcast of like two minutes max, kind of 30, 60 seconds often and we'll share that in the feed with a bit of text with it as well. We find that works really well because it's a great way of delivering thought leadership. So you're helping people, you're building up authority also because it's shot in a nice studio like this. It kind of looks legit as well. So it helps with our legitimacy of our brand and showed that we are serious about this. We also do some face-to-camera stuff where it might just be on your phone or it might be just from your laptop with decent camera, well decent lighting, kind of a good microphone and just 30 seconds just delivering some thought leadership that works well. But also a lot of text posts we find work well works well. Doesn't have to be video, doesn't have to be big creative images with it. It can just be a text post with your latest thoughts or what's works recently or telling the story of what you've learned or what you've done and how it's worked well that people can relate to. That works really well. Another component of this is actually just showing who you are outside of work, going back to a previous point, like people buy from people. So you don't want to just be all work or fault leadership. You kind of want to put a curtain back on who you are outside of work. What you're interested in, what you've been through, what your story is so people can buy and sell that as well. Yeah. I think that's where there's a gray area with that bit, isn't there? Where people are like, we don't want this to turn into Facebook. Yeah. So, to see who this person is, it's a slightly skewed way and I think I've definitely seen people use that really well, because of maybe highlights and some exercise that they've done or they've completed a mat or they've done something like that or, but then I've seen people just completely overdo that on that way. And I think what you're saying there is just balance it. There is an element of throwing stuff at the wall in there, just whatever's sticking and then finding out, okay, cool, that's actually performing better. Let's put some resource into that. Yeah. And I was just watching this and they've got a 20k budget. What do you say they do? Yeah, you use the Navy M strategy. Right. I would. So, have that list of accounts. We notice is what we want to go out there. We're going to center everything around this focal point so that we can saturate that audience of S we can, make sure that they know who we are. Use for what we've added, like we spoke about a lot. So, have your experts or your C suite if you can. Post an on-linked in, get an active on-linked in, create video content if they're comfortable to do. Just have them active on the channel and get it out there because that's going to be the best way to build up that authority and trust which will then lead to people coming to you and to more work. From the company page perspective, I would kind of see that as, like the cheerleader for your fault leaders, they should be commenting on those fault leaders. All of the posts they're doing, engaging with the post to make sure that the brand is present and also they're encouraging people to post more and be more active on there. So make sure your company page acts like a landing page because what's interesting about if you run ads on LinkedIn is that 25% of the clicks you get on your ads will go through to your company page. I find that they're free, you don't pay for those clicks, but it means that people are checking out your company page so it can't just be left as a barren land that you've never really looked at. You want to make sure it's kind of optimized as a landing page. The other thing I would do is just get active, engage with other people on the platform. That's it, giving back. That's it. Be it a good digital citizen. This isn't all about the post that you put out there. Grow your network in a relevant way. Engage with others, like look to engage with, I don't know, whether you can manage, but kind of two, five or ten different accounts each day. Just be active on there and then you'll get more back from the platform as well. Yeah, you get back what you put in, right? It's not just lurkers, yeah, okay, they exist, but I think more. I've actually, like many a time, I've kind of commented on somebody's post, especially somebody who maybe I've got a proposal set with something and they've literally replied in a comment like, I'm getting back to email as we speak. I'm like, oh, okay, that's all it takes sometimes. It's just that. Yeah. People are busy. Yeah. Busy brains, they've got loads going on and everyone's getting linked in messages and emails of sales like with, I mean, I don't know about you, but I'm honoured with sales stuff all the time. And I think to not have an agenda is the best way to have an agenda. Yeah, if that makes sense. Yeah. And also you can get more reach by commenting on another of people's posts than you can your own posts. You can. And LinkedIn now show you your notice. Yeah. The number of impressions on a post. And if you get that right, if it's a thoughtful comment, it's not just like great insights. It's actually diving deeper into what they say and sharing your opinion, maybe starting a conversation. Yeah. LinkedIn will pick up on that, especially if the person has a decent follow in any way in the post that is doing well. You can get so many more impressions on commenting. Yeah. And that means that's only good for your profile. Your followers will grow, you'll get more exposure that way, which is what we're on the platform for. Absolutely. And what you mentioned, there's, I mean, there's a company that I came across the other day, actually, called, it's an employee advocacy platform. Have you seen these? They're popping up into their just, their businesses. Yeah, yeah. Quite a few of them. The whole point of like is for them to engage a strategy for their employees to shout about the business. Yeah. LinkedIn used to have one. They sunset it about two years ago, I think. I don't think they kind of talked about it much or shared it very well because not more people know about it, but they actually used to have one and they got rid of it. No way. Yeah. One of their kicking themselves or not. I think they are. I think they're just looking to bring it back soon. Yeah. Let's talk about that. Yeah. But I see them popping up all the time. Yeah, that's massive. So, right, on the flip side, somebody's got no budget. Yes. What are you turning them to do? Yeah. So if you've got no budget, then you're going to have to invest in like low-fi production. So get your camera out on your phone, talk to the camera regularly, just delivering it to 60 second clips with your fault leadership, focus on your organic profiles, to get people to post organically on the channel, engage with people, what we were saying before, make sure your company page is like a landing page for your brand and your comments and other people's posts as well. I think that one mantra that I have, which works well in LinkedIn, is do cool stuff and talk about it. Yeah. So, I think that's a great way to do that. I mean, especially in your role, you're up to cool stuff all the time. You're kind of going off to really interesting shoots. I get the most engagement on that kind of stuff, just like saying, we're here, we've done this, and people love it. LinkedIn is a very American platform. They love to see people win. Yeah. And I feel like that's the same with the people on it. They like to see people doing well. Yeah. Which is nice, right? Yeah, change your pace. Yeah, it's the most memorable stuff as well. Yeah. You tend to find is that, oh yeah, remember when he was on this trip in Switzerland and just kind of documented the whole thing. So not everyone's going to be doing that, but in your role, you'll be surprised like how many interesting things you are getting up to, even if it's you discovered a new tool or if something going on in the office or you go into an event like today, where shooting a podcast is interesting, it's a really cool location. I'll take a picture of this with you. I'll post about it because it's just documenting all what you're up to and people are interested in that and they buy into it. They do, big time. And you know, part, so, you know, I said, I run a business called LRB who make podcasts and part of our offering is all about the experience now. And the reason for, for example, and the same will happen for you right after this is they'll have behind the scenes photos taken on a good camera with their experience in their pocket before they left the door. Why is that? Because they can then, they're like, oh my god, this is amazing. Yeah. I'm going to post about this. Yeah, post you so well. Yeah, I do. Like, oh, I've just been on this podcast, self with the person, professional photography of them in a podcast studio, looks to business. People get like psyched up about it and they're so happy for you. That's a great opportunity, you know, well done for doing that and stuff like this. And it's why we now do it as well because we're seeing it's not just the reward of them being on it, it's like the whole experience, right? - Exactly, it is. Just do cool stuff and talk about it. And a lot of people don't, they will just go to that event, I'll shoot that podcast and never tell anyone, and just maybe just when it's launched. But yeah, we bind to people. We want to see what they're up to day by day. We find that, that interest. - Yeah. - So, so should we do operates, really? - It is. People think they're, you know, there are humble people around who don't want to shout about it. But, you know, if you're telling your friends, it's kind of like, - Yeah, and just don't do it in a cringe way. Like, we don't want it to be that, yeah, I mean, I was chopping the other day and I was sort of sandwiched and this is what he told me, talking about being a marketing, like, don't do it in a cringe way, just do it in a natural way that kind of treat the platform like a social platform, because LinkedIn is. - Yeah. - Yes, it's corporate, yes, it's B2B is unique in that respect, but it is a social media, so you need to kind of post a daring to that. And I think it's kind of gone away a bit, what you mentioned before, where it was like, this isn't Facebook, don't post that here. - Yes. - That's not such a thing anymore. You don't see that on comments so much. I think we've kind of got over that. And which is only a good thing for the content that's now being produced on the platform. - Yeah, more real things. It's LinkedIn being cringes a massive thing. And I remember, I see a lot of content about LinkedIn being like that. And I always think, you've got Instagram and you've got TikTok and like, to me, I don't understand the difference. You're spending 40 hours a week at work. - Yeah. - Like, maybe you just don't, I don't know, maybe some people don't like their jobs, so they don't want to talk about it, right? And that's why they find LinkedIn cringed. - Yeah, I think, if I'm, I mean, personally, I do what I love. I'm sure you do too, right? And I get up every morning, I'm excited. I wouldn't, I want to share it with the world a little bit. So I think people love to hate LinkedIn. - Yes. - I don't know what you think about that. - Yeah, but I see that all the time as well. People see it's cringed and they love to hate on it. And that would always be the case. But I think that there's so many examples now of people who have, they don't have to run a business, they're own a business, they can work in a business. And actually, they've seen massive benefits by just being active on LinkedIn. And it's led to new careers, new opportunities. It's led to maybe them launching their own thing. There are so many benefits about by building up your personal brand, building up your own profile, building up your following. And because who knows where it might lead in your career. And that's why I encourage people to do it is that it's not just good for a business perspective, it's not just good for, it will build up trust within that organization so you'll get more leads 'cause that will happen. But it's also gonna be good for that individual who's posting. There's only benefits to building up your profile. - Yeah, a million percent. It's a platform that's growing and it keeps on going. And I think there's only, it's only gonna go from strength to strength. And it's gonna be interesting to see how it changes. 'Cause to me, like compared to the other social media, it still feels as a platform, somewhat dated looking on that. I can't wait to see what they do with it. And if it does become more video friendly, like we briefly saw scrolling vertical video. I think you know, and it's kind of, I think most people use LinkedIn still on a desktop really as well, right? Like a lot of people still do use it on there. And it doesn't feel very video friendly still. - Yeah. - But it's heavily compressed. And I think I'm sure they'll change that and things will, 'cause they want people to stay on the platform. - Yeah. - They don't want people to leave it. And I think by, you know, creating a better, kind of platform to host those kind of things, it's only gonna serve it well. - Yeah. - On a final question, if you could quickly tell B2B marketing teams to stop doing one thing tomorrow, what would that be? - Stop treating LinkedIn and marketing is like a lead bending machine, where it's you prioritize short-term results, bottom of funnel lead generation, attribution at all costs over everything. Treat the channel of LinkedIn or more widely of B2B prioritize building up your brand. 'Cause when you do that, you might not see results in month one or month two, month three, but over time you will get outside success. And the business will see the value that marketing is bringing far beyond the short-term results that you could deliver and what you're always chasing. So that's what I would advise is that focus on brand, focus on the long term, that's what marketing is best at, and that's what leads to the best results. - Perfect. And if people are gonna connect with you or find you, what can you help them with and where can they find you? - Yeah, I mean, unsurprisingly, connect to me on LinkedIn. I'm active on LinkedIn all at the time. - Oh, really? - We can help you with anything to do with LinkedIn, mainly LinkedIn ads, but organic content on LinkedIn as well. We've also got our own podcast, if you're interested in doing more about how LinkedIn can help you, it's called a LinkedIn ads insider, so that's on YouTube, you can search for it on LinkedIn as well, but yeah, that's the best way to connect to us. - Perfect, it's been very insightful talking to you, Dave. I really appreciate your time. Thanks for coming on. - Pleasure, thanks for having me on.