How To Find Meaning | Interview With Kieran Browning

All right welcome to the Sevo show, the life of Sef. We're having a chilled evening this Thursday, the 13th of August. We have a special guest, as always, every guest is special, I guess. His name's Kieran and we go right back to high school, went to high school together in Calgouli and then we finished and then we grew up and lived together for a little while, have some stories about that. [Music] Whether or not we dwell into them is another story. For the audience, if we do, feel free to stop listening because it's going to probably be highly inappropriate, but if you're up for that shit, you're welcome, you're in for a treat Kieran, how are you? Good thanks. I'm good mate. Good to be here. Good to see you. This is great. I love you set up. Thank you. Thank you. So Kieran, tell the audience who you are, what you do and what your thoughts are on briefly on life. All right. Yeah, so Kieran Browning, business consultants, usually living overseas or somewhere in Southeast Asia or whatever, digital nomad type stuff. And yeah man, life is to be fucking enjoyed. Life is to be really, really enjoyed. Be ambitious, make money and have as much fun as possible, engage in hobbies and just be the happiest person you know, be like the best life that you can. And that's basically what we're doing. I love that. Ever since I probably knew you post high school, because we were just his head during high school, that was just the most that we got out of school and past school in the first couple of years. Ever since you we lived together, I remember you would be laying on the couch just thinking about shit and you kind of became this different person that I liked. And I was just like, this guy's like, I feel a soft cool and shit and giving me all these new theories about women, about like things and how did it all start? Who's your inspiration? So yeah, you see this weird thing, which I don't do anymore, where I would lie down and literally not write anything down and just sort of think to myself for hours. And sort of, a lot of it was economics. And so I'm making like the graphs and stuff with my hands and just sort of with my hands thinking and gesturing to no one in particular and just trying to figure out usually about economics, the economics students. And journaling is way better to do that and making projects and brainstorming stuff like that. But I used to do that. Why did I do that? Who did I learn that from? No one in particular. I don't really know. I'm just very, very curious about stuff. I love learning, I love delving into the theories. I'm really passionate about economics. And it was actually a party that we went to. We broke into a party at Curtin University. Allegedly we did this. And I didn't go to Curtin. I went to UW. And we broke in there literally like we didn't have a ticket or we didn't have a ticket. And the line to get in was like enormous. Like loads of people lining up to get a ticket. One hour wait. Yeah, it took us ages to get their curtains far away from where we lived, very far away from where we lived, took the train. And we ended up getting in by literally like just running past the bouncer, which I would never have thought in a million years would ever work. Just walk comfortably up to the bouncer and then when he turns left you go by I run him to the right. Except I saw a guy who we just met on the train do that exact thing. And we got in. I got blackout drunk and work out the next day with a message from a guy who I'd apparently met there who said, hey, let's get a coffee sometime. And so a week later I've met up with this random guy who I don't remember and get a coffee room. And that dude is maybe the smartest guy I've ever met. The guy got his PhD in engineering before he finished his undergraduate degree, which is two people have only ever done that at UW. Like genius genius level dude. And we would have these just really, really, philosophical long conversations about all kinds of stuff. And that guy now heads like a research agency. And yeah, so maybe from him I guess. Amazing. I didn't even know that that party was relevant. I think about that party every now and then. Like just going back to it. It was a crazy night because yeah, that bouncer was in the back door because we looked at each other. We're like, was there another way in? And then the bounce was halfway through the door. And when you snuck in, I was like, man, if I don't get in here, I'm stuffed. Anyway, we both got in and there was a dance floor. And it was like kind of roped off. You want to allow to have alcohol in there. And when you said blackout drunk, that triggered me to knowing why? Because as it roped off, people that wanted to go inside the dance floor, there was a table of booze just there. And you and me both, you know, poor students, well, you're a student, I was just poor. We decided to just grab a can. It was somewhat full and have a swig. I don't advise that, but you know, you're young and you learn. And I learned the hard way because mine was, I don't know if it was spiked, but it had some strong shit in it that wasn't what the can said it had on there. And I think you were maybe the same, but yeah, long story short, from that one, I ended up dancing with this random chick who was a complete like one of the words that they use these days as thought. Do modern parlance. And yeah, that's so interesting that you bridge that to this guy. And so that started a road to your new kind of way of thinking, would you say? Well, he sort of opened my eyes to one that it was an interesting and special thing to think like that, to think deeply. I mean, most economic students, they don't have a favorite economist, I don't have a favorite like economic theory that don't have a like they like they don't even really give a shit. It's important to be open-minded with economy. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, I'd be very interested in watching, I think at your house once and your mum caught me doing this and was like, why would you watch that? I was watching like a debate between like an economist and someone else I'd be watching a debate with like Thomas Friedman or something like that. And it was just so, so interested in things like that. And I guess so he demonstrated to me that like that's an interesting and important thing. And yeah, you can talk to someone for hours about those sort of stuff. And if it wasn't for him, I don't know what like who else I would have really got that from. There wasn't too many other people I knew at the time. They were interested in that specifically. Everyone else was just like, all right, pussy, pussy drinking, which is, you know, fun and interesting. At that age, it's like fair enough. At any age honestly, it's fair enough. But it's just like it's nice to balance it out with other sort of stuff. Yeah, I don't know when I started to kind of think more about ideas than people. Mine was early, but it's definitely not as early as yourself because I was thinking about 40 and all this other shit. By the way guys, we're eating chicken wings and drinking wine, so if you can hear that, you're welcome. Hope you're enjoying the sounds effects. Yeah, so I remember like going back to the days when I got you a job at the nightclub at the gay bar, the court hotel. And at that time when you got the job, I remember you were doing a specific sleeping style. Can you explain that to me again? Oh god. Just briefly. So the Uberman is where you take only naps. You do not have like an eight hour sleep at night. You only, you take six, 20 minute naps every three hours. So it's 12 a.m. every four hours. So 12 a.m. 4 a.m. 8 a.m. 12 p.m. 4 p.m. 8 p.m. You sleep for 20 minutes, 20 minutes, 20 minutes, 20 minutes. So you only really add up to sleeping for two hours or two hours during a 24 hour period. You just do that every single day. The initial like first seven to 14 days is brutal and you just exhaust it after that your body begins to react, adapt to it. And then you're going to sleep a lot more efficiently. Is the theory? So you're saying deep sleep instantly? The REM sleep pretty much instantly. And I was going at the point where I could like do REM dreaming sleep pretty much instantly, but I could never get past like the 10 day hamper whatever I'd always just crashed in Berlin. I've attempted this now three times. I met a guy, actually the same guy who taught me pretty much everything I know about managing staff remotely. This genius guy, Mad Singh, is maybe one of the, maybe the second smartest guy ever met now that were on the subject. And he did it successfully for like seven months, but he just said socially it's like terrible. You go people and then like, all right, I have to go back to my car and sleep or something like that. And he actually said he did it properly and I believe him. Wow. Yeah. I remember one night specifically, we were both on shift and you were like, all right, I've got my break. I'm going to take 20 minutes and yeah, you overslept and I came and got you. I was like, Karen, Karen, you need to wake up. You're going to get in trouble and you were like, oh, shit. There was some hectic times. I think I said, yeah, it's like 12 a.m. You work until 1 a.m. or 2 a.m. or 3 a.m. or 2 30 a.m. So I had a 20 minute nap at 12 a.m. and woke up at like 1 30 or something like that. Yeah. You kept working a little while longer after I left because I had to, I couldn't work anymore because I had 40 commitments and they got upset that I couldn't work past midnight. But yeah, I remember that thing that you were like, you try so many things, but you try them thoroughly. You don't just go, oh, that's a cool idea and then try it for a week. No, that doesn't work. Yet the fucking, the papers and the journals and all the articles that recommend it say, you know, you need to have a good goal at this. That's the one thing I always admired about you when when you had like an idea or you wanted a new concept, you actually gave it a go. I remember seeing your Facebook videos of you and Vietnam and you were talking about, I remember one specifically, you had a whole bag of just drugs and you were talking about all these supplements, allegedly. Supplements and Gabba 5HDP, LPHNN, Modaphanil, Modaphanil, I can relate to our brain, new mood, what the fuck else were to take, vitamin D3, all kinds of crazy stuff. And what kind of got you onto that sort of path? So I watched the movie Limitless with Bradley Cooper. I love that movie, that's a goal. That one. Yeah, I think I watched that movie maybe like 15 times or something like that, just obsessed with it. So and actually, Uni, I used to think like, that's what I want to do. I want to either create the drug that that's based off like NZT. I want to make my own version of that. There's like super smart drug that makes you just a genius and gives you lots of energy and motivation and clarity and focus. 100% access to your brain. Yeah, I want to make this and then I want to take it and want to help other people take it. And my admission in life is to like make people smarter basically, raise the collective mental capacity of society or something like that, which is how I used to talk and think back then. And so I was always interested in it. And then what happened? That's right. I came to Vietnam and that's right. So I bulked up. I wanted to get I wanted to get absolutely jacked. So I was 80 kilos and like 6'3" and I wanted to bulk up to like 100 kilos and get shredded. It want to be like 100 kilos, 10% body fat. I just wanted to be an absolute specimen. So I bulked up to about 96 kilos and then realized that I had developed severe sleep apnea. Like I wasn't lean but you can get severe sleep apnea. Like a lot of body builders have severe sleep apnea. So I just ruined your sleep. And so the before I realized that I had severe sleep apnea, I just didn't know what the fuck was going on with my energy level. So I didn't know what it was. I asked one of my Vietnamese friends like what are Vietnamese students take to study? And then it's like "Ah, meth and also a metaphanel and I can get you some metaphanel." And I'd heard of metaphanel. I was like "Oh, you know, I'll give it a try." And did some research and then took metaphanel, did a quarter of a pill and then tried, "Wow, this is huge." And then did half a pill the next day. And then that was just a game change of anything that's really immediately and permanently like improved my life, it's metaphanel. And so that I was all about taking metaphanel. I've been taking metaphanel almost every day for since maybe 2018 or something like that. I used to currently on it. I took metaphanel this morning, yeah. So I discovered it recently in the last two months from a friend. I'm a disclosed person. You know who you are. And they gave me 12. And I'm very careful what I take. But if it's prescribed and I do my research and you know, I look into it. It's not like I'm taking cocaine or whatever and I'm not going to jeopardize my job or whatever. Then yeah, I give it a go and it's a good lesson to students too. Like in health class, they say, "Don't do drugs." But in my class, I say, "I'm not going to tell you what to do. But if you're going to try something, make sure you're in an ear and a safe environment." But with metaphanel, can you explain to us what it actually does? So the only thing I really care about we've trained supplements or whatever, just to try them once, try them for the first time, whatever, or do half a dose the first time is what the benefits are and what the side effects are. I don't know how it works. I don't know anything about brain chemistry or anything like that. But effectively, it gives you more mental energy and mental focus. And so when I take my metaphanel, I don't feel as foggy as a word. You know, one o'clock comes by. I don't feel as tired towards that. And I can focus on stuff that I want to focus on for much longer periods of time. So I don't get addicted from it. There's no real withdrawal symptoms. You only do half a pill. I don't mix with caffeine. You can't mix with caffeine, by the way. Yeah. It's not a good idea. So it sounds like a little bit like dexanphetamine. What would you rate metaphanel compared to dexanphetamine? So I've never taken dexas before. Well, no, I don't know. I have dexas before. So what they used to do very stupidly, WA was they would have, they make what they call snow cones. So you crush up some dexanphetamine, which is, I guess, Adderall really is like an equivalent, I guess. It's an ADHD medication that people who don't have ADHD use it, give them a focus on something like that. And they would crush that up and put that in a joint with weed and you would smoke the weed. And so you'd get high, but also get alert or something. And it just seemed like the dumbest idea to me, like just ruin it. And I had a terrible experience on that. So that's the only time I've ever taken dexas. And would not rate. Because everyone went to sleep. We're out in the heels at this guy's 21st. And we're all sleeping in his house. And I, everyone's asleep. And I'm just with my eyes closed for like eight hours and didn't sleep, but didn't sleep a wink. So would not recommend. I hated taking dexas that only once. My experience before I became a school teacher. And it's important to be transparent, you know, although they say, you know, don't share your information online and stuff as a teacher. But I'm like, you know what? I've done stuff. And I need to talk about it because first hand, the kids respect that. So the teachers that I like listening, I know people will. And they're like, oh my god, it's important to be able to kind of be their first hand. I've never taken any hardcore drugs. I never will. But these supplements, you know, there's a different story. My, my experience with a dexan fenamine was I was falling asleep one night with some, I was on the couch watching feet. I was with the world cup a couple of years ago. My mates were, well, they're still hanging out. It was in a hotel room. And they had dexan fenamine dexas and they gave me a couple. And I was like, nah, they're like, it's prescription. You know, it's so good. It's so good. And then I was like, nah, okay, I'll give it a go. And it worked me straight up, but I was buzzing for the, like, the next eight hours. I couldn't fall asleep either. So unless you're, unless you're trying to focus or whatever, or you know, prescribes you, I don't really recommend it. And the one thing is don't rely on drugs. Don't get addicted, obviously. Don't become like, okay, I need this to focus today. Right, with the metafanil, it's, it's the last time I did it was like when I had a seminar and I know it was a whole day seminar and I was like, this is going to suck. So I did it in the morning and I did like half doses. And by one o'clock with that foggy time comes in. There was an activity. I remember we did. They're like, okay, guys, we're all going to go stand up out of our chairs, been sitting down for a while. I'm going to talk to everybody and get an idea from everybody. No one stood up except for me. I was gone like a pinball machine. It was crazy. And I was like, whoa, you know, and it would blast me all the way through till about 10 30 p.m. So it didn't make me smarter, but it did get me to focus. Yeah. And the only problem with that is if you've chosen the wrong topic to be focused on, that's not good either. So you need like a plan. So if you have a task to do, do that task. If you if you procrastinate, you're going to be focused well on procrastinating and I wish there was a drug that would be like, no, stop procrastinating. This is what you need to do. Like an accountability drug. That would be amazing. Yeah. That would be crazy. Yeah. That's any other specific stories and supplements that you can remember that have made a significant change because you take my definitely still. Is there anything else that you that you kind of do or that loads of stuff? Benefits you? Yeah. So it started off. So I had severe sleep apnea and I was still trying to find out like just what is going on? Why am I just exhausted most of the time? And it's a slow burn with severe sleep apnea. You don't really, because you know, slowly gaining weight, slowly developing it, but like a sleeping disorder is relatively rare. So it's like, is it my diet? And then you improve your diet and then like a small impact, but not really. Is it my exercise? And you improve your exercise? And like, that makes a small impact, but not really. Am I going to sleep too late? Am I going to waking up too early? Is my room not dark enough? Is my room like the wrong temperature? Is it too noisy? Do I have the wrong blanket? You go through all these different things before you finally figure out sleep apnea. And so I became this expert at sleep because I narrowed it down like, oh my god, it's good. My test osterone level is fine. My other levels are good. My exercises is good. So it should be sleep that is causing this. And so I just read a lot about sleep, a bunch of books and try a bunch of stuff. And so all right, well, sometimes I struggle falling asleep. So you can take L-thiening and garba and magnesium to help you fall asleep, not pass out, like volume or weed or alcohol. We'll make you pass out and we'll delay actual deep regenerative sleep. So that's like it's a dumb way of doing it essentially. So we started taking that fall asleep. All right, that works. You know, I'm going to keep doing that. And then I've basically been doing that since then. I still do that. And that's so any side effects from that? I'm not letting I know. I've known. That's good. And I remember you did an article that I've a video saying, you were talking about how it is important to find those supplements that benefit your life. It's a good idea. Yeah. Can you can you expand on that for people that obviously haven't heard it? Yeah, well, it's basically just solving problems, solving problems easily. So it takes you too long to fall asleep. That's a very solvable problem. And there's a bunch of things that you can do. One of the easy ones is just take the supplement that gives you the thing that you need. Like, are you consuming enough magnesium? Probably not. So just do that. And then for sleep in particular, how restorative is the sleep that you're having? Like how good sleep quality? Well, it's not enough. Then a supplement can help solve that problem. So 5HTP and garbage as well as part of that, 5HTP don't take every night. And it just makes a difference. So we're just we're making incremental things to do it. Like supplements are just tools. Forget that they're even drugs. They're just tools to solve a problem. So what's the problem that you have? And can you solve it? Weave this tool very easily. In addition to just a good lifestyle and stuff like that, if you have a healthy lifestyle and there's still gaps, which there will be, why not just easily, conveniently, cheaply, permanently solve this problem by taking, you know, three pills before you go to sleep? Like it's to me, to me, it just makes perfect sense basically. And I just got started with one and then it two, then three, then four, then five. And then hopefully in the future I'm taking hundreds of supplements because every single one that I do take makes my life better. So I would just like to take more and more and more and more and more and more and more. I'm thinking of that as it sounds hectic and becoming reliant on supplements, you know, some may say that it's not the best idea, you know. Natural is better and training your mind to do it naturally. What are your thoughts on that theory? Done. It's done. If you can make more money by taking that afternoon, why not take that afternoon? Like the outcome surely is the only thing anyone who gives a shit about. I'm happier I have more energy and more social, more fun, blah blah blah. All right, but like you use like a very useful convenient cheap tool to do that. It's like, yeah, it fucking did. Yeah. It's like getting a hammer to put a nail in whatever you're building. Yeah, like what you'd pursue can't use your fist. Yeah, fuck yourself. Whatever gets the job done, whatever gets you there. Yeah. I live a healthy lifestyle. I have a good diet exercise. I sleep well. I do all the things that you are supposed to do. Then on top of that, what else is good? All right. So, you know, making sure that my room is dark, making sure that I'm sleeping with earplugs in and have a white noise generator and a certain type of blanket, a certain type of mattress. All right. Those things all help. What else helps? Yeah. One of my things that I learned from, they didn't really get too deep in the barefoot investor, but he said, I don't know if it was that book, but he said invest in a good pillow. Because eight hours of the day or however many hours you have, majority of your sleep or you're sleeping or you're on a pillow, you want that pillow to be good. And like I sleep very lightly. I go into a deep sleep, but like a mouse, farts and I'm awake. So I do the earplugs as well. And there is a really good technique to putting them in properly. So I don't fall out. They hurt a shit when you take them out in the morning when you do though. But maybe that's just me with sensitive ears. The white noise. Show me that technique. I will. With the white noise generator, I've never, I've heard about it, but I've never really kind of dwelled into it. I fall asleep rather quickly. I don't remember the last time or maybe a couple of times I did that I just fell asleep that I took a long time to fall asleep or I would wake up in the middle of the night or wake up a couple of hours before I normally wake up. For the last five or six years, I don't get sick. I'm moderately happy with my body. I know how to improve it. But in terms of like the white noise thing, that sounds interesting. Can you tell me more about that? Yeah. So you don't have the problem. So there's no real point solving it. But yeah, sometimes I will wake up during the night, hear a noise, whatever else like that. Or in the morning, if someone's somewhere else is in the house, whatever they wake up to, their thing before you, their return is different to yours. Then that'll wake me up. And now I'm awake at 5am or whatever. So just getting front of that. There's a white noise generator on my phone. It's free. I think it's called rain, rain or something like that. And I just have the free version because I can't be bothered. And yeah, it just plays the specific one I like is called rain on a tent. And this is what it sounds like. Maybe the audio for that is shit. No. Rain on a tent. And so it just dampens out. So if there's other noise, because basically you're doing your body's doing threat detection, is there an unknown sound I should be awake or else I will die, except the doors are locked. And I know my time. Like no, and I'm safe. Like I don't need to, I can sort of overwrite my own programming. So if there is a noise, I'm less likely to hear it. So I'm more vulnerable to threats except, no, I'm not. So yeah, if you have that problem, that is that is a very easy solution. They're nice. Nice. Now for me, for me, Slope's been never been a really a big issue. The one thing I noticed and I actually did a little bit of a self-study on it is, when I sleep naked, I dream a lot more frequently. And that's been an interesting one. And lucid dreaming, I thought about trying to get into it. Have you ever done lucid dreaming or try to make that a regular thing? Yeah. Yeah. So I habituated it once. I can't remember. Yeah. So the technique I think at the time was, I can't remember why I was so interested in it. Maybe it was during the Uberman days. But regularly throughout the day, you check you watch, because during a dream, there is no watches or you can't check or something like that. So just get in the habit of just regularly checking your watch, even when you don't need to see the time, just to make sure I'm I asleep and trying to habituate understanding when you are asleep. Yeah. I used to lucid dreaming to crazy stuff and then you realize you're in a dream more regularly than you go away and you fly and you fly, fight dragons and I used to really, really enjoy it. Yeah, I should get back into that. Yeah. Lucid dreaming for anyone that doesn't know is when you're aware that you're dreaming and then you can just do whatever the fuck you want. It's pretty crazy. I haven't really dwelled into it too much, but when I have identified that I'm dreaming, it's a good time. Obviously, we're carrying talking about with the check the watch thing is you go back to the movie and section, you need to double check if anyone's just seen the movie, you need to check that you if you're dreaming. So if you're on top of a building and you decide to jump off, it's a good idea to know that if you're dreaming or not, otherwise you're fucked. So yeah, that's that's my pro tip there. But yeah, there's so many different experiments that I've started doing and that have benefited me. My one thing that I'm trying to, since our last conversation back at Billy's restaurant is being more organized and I've taken that on a little bit. My studio now is not what a normally is and it's not tidy because of you. I had it tidy before and it's I've kept it like that and it's like the start of being organized. It's like if you have cluttered space in your house, that's on your mind. This is my opinion. And if you if that's if that's there, your your life's going to be disorganized. So the first thing and this is what the the army believes in, you make your bed at the start of the day, you've achieved something, you've achieved the first thing, you're on a roll now, you know, the worlds you're oyster. But for anyone that's struggling to get organized and I get a lot of these questions from kids from school is how do you focus more or actually we're really talked about that takes supplements but how do you get organized better as as a kid and as an adult what's your thoughts? I think Jordan Peterson's take on this is pretty brilliant. You listen to Jordan too? Of course. Love you, Wack. Cleanly fucking room. So there's a lot to organize and it's a long process and there's so much to do about the start of it is just clean your room. Get your room clean. Make sure you bed is like made the morning. Figure out how to tidy your room and stuff like that. Make sure there's a place for everything and everything in its place. And then once you can get there and it's not nothing, can make sure that your room is clean. A lot of people don't have clean rooms. Then the same principles apply to everything else. And part of my role as a consultant is to help my clients get organized. Like, all right, when you assign tasks like two staff, what specifically needs to get done by what time with what priority level and where do they have to go to do this and is there a written process and if there is can we link it and what other resources will they need? Like how do you do us how do you assign an instruction in so much detail that in four days they're not going to come back to you with a bunch of questions and make a bunch of mistakes because some stuff was vague or anything else like that. How do you get in front of all these questions and problems by just making a really really good instruction from the start that saves you more time in hassle and headaches and blowing client deadline deadlines and every step in yourself later on. And so I like to me it comes pretty naturally. I just am extremely orderly is the the technical scientific term. But yeah, like clean your fucking room and then once you can clean your room, read getting things done by Dave Allen, read it again, read a third time, ample minute, fall off the wagon, get back on the wagon, keep implementing it and then you'll be the most organized person you've ever met and it'll change your life. Getting things done is the most important, second most important book I've ever read, I'd say. And what's the first one? For our work week by Tim Ferriss. Tim Ferriss. Yeah. Yeah. No, the one, no, the one. So going back to the Jordan Peterson thing because I'm a massive fan of him. I listened to him quite frequently. I read his 12 rules. Have you read that book? Yep. Yep. That's kind of, and I don't read that much and I'm working on it. So to be to be quite frank, it was an audio book so that I can kind of do other things. My mind kind of goes on a tangent when I'm reading things and if that happens, I mean, I have to reread that same passage again so it syncs in. But audio for me just works better because my mind can actually channel into the importance anyway. So, but yeah, for 12 rules by Jordan, be Peterson. It's, it's like a philosophical sort of, but he uses analogies and he uses storytelling from his, his own experience, which I love. I love anyone that doesn't just talk shit from other people's theories. He just goes back to his own upbringing. He talks about his children, talks about his wife, he talks about his daughter who had severe problems growing up because she had a lot of disabilities and a lot of issues and he himself has gone through some shit lately, some absolute shit and he's come out, you know, still breathing. But the 12 rules, that's for me, that's one of my game changing books because it's just like like a, hey, this is how you do it. This is how you can think about it. Here's my story. Take it as you like it. This isn't gospel. I'm not preaching to you, but this is what's working. And then there was another book. I don't know if you know about this. There's a like exactly the same cover, the same sort of like book cover and everything. 256 rules to life or something like. I don't even know how many there are, but some lady may like us. It wasn't a parody, but it was like, it's like a bitch. And it's like, don't have this haircut. Don't do this. Don't do this. And I'm just like, who's this person? And why is she telling me that what I can and can't do? Whereas Jordan Peterson's book is like a like a general broad statement. What did you, what did, what did you take out of that book? So the rule about pursuing what is meaningful and not what is pleasurable or expedient or whatever that specific rule was, that was, that that was pretty inspiring for me. Like, alright, yeah, because I mean the book essentially breaks down like, alright, what is proper living? Like how should a person live? And you feel like it's, you know, maybe it's, maybe it's based on a bunch of different stuff. And then you read the book and you're like, oh, I'm not really. I mean, it's pretty, this does pretty much seem like objective principles of how things should run. But so what does a meaningful life look like? And why is it better than a pleasurable life? And I followed up this book, I'm reading recently Victor Frankl's, our man search for meaning. And it's a guy who was a psychologist who, you know, went, who was, you know, Jewish during the little two and got sent to a concentration camp. And so it's the thoughts of a psychologist in a concentration camp that he is a persecuted member of and experiences there and sort of like what he took out of it. And the importance of meaning, like the people who ran to the wires was the term they had for it. You just run towards the, the, the barbed wire and then I'll shoot you down. That's basically the easiest way to commit suicide there. The people who didn't do that had some sort of thing to live for. And it wasn't a happier life. It was some sort of meaning. So for him, it was, I need to finish my life's work of this psychology research that didn't get published yet. And then later on, it was, I need to live for, you know, my wife or whatever. A lot of people, they live in for the kids. But I want to, they've pursued a happiness. There's no, there's not what's going to get you through a really, really dark time. You need something more important to grapple with and something to like, all right, this, it is worth enduring, suffering in order to accomplish this because there will be suffering at some point. Yeah, people, you know, will die. Businesses will fail and health problems will arise, stuff like that. And if you don't have something there, then you'll be in a lot of fucking strife later on. And so, yeah, yeah, that was just very powerful. I mean, I had changed a lot of goals accordingly. And, yeah, I found that incredibly useful. But I'm the same. And I can, I can go into different directions with that. And talking to people, I know kids, friends, acquaintances, colleagues, they're all like, you know, I say to them, what are you up to on the weekend? They're like, oh, I'm just so old. I'm like, okay. And then throughout the week, they're complaining. They're always complaining. And then going to the difference between meaningful and happy and successful, like the definition of successful as well. Jordan talks about that too. But for me, like, meaningful, for my understanding and talking to a lot of people about it is going through that trauma. If you go through that trauma, you have that bit of what's the word? Your face diversity to be like, okay, I've went through some shit. It's not that bad. Now, my life's not that bad. You know, you have family members die of businesses fail, your health's been shit. You come out of that and you're like, wow, it could be worse. And then you have meaning. But when people ask me, how do you find meaning? My answer is, well, you got to go see what you're into. You got to see what you're, you're interested in. And, you know, and with a lot of meaning, it kind of comes as like a default for some. You look at it in Rocky. I like using Rocky as an analogy. Rocky for, I think it was when he was fighting Ivan Drago, the Russian guy. He, who are you rooting for, by the way? For Ivan, you're rooting for Rocky. Well, I was rooting for the guy that killed the black dude, you know? No, it's just so cute. I'm going to get cancelled now. No, because he was Russian, like, I was growing up. I had no idea that hell was going on. And like, from where I'm from, there was a lot of racism and I'm fortunate enough to come out of that racism. And, you know, be like, you know what? I'm not racist. I think everyone's all right. Unless they're an actual dickhead, but race doesn't define if you're a dickhead or not. You're upbringing and other factors do. Yeah, with Swiss football team, you support. Exactly. Exactly. You know? And anyway, but Rocky for when, you know, the main characters best friend was killed in the ring. Rocky, all of a sudden, had a purpose to meaning to fight, to do what he did. And he had that, you know, there was a really cool movie. Like, back then it was just boxing. I hope he wins. Oh, look, you won. Yeah, end of story. You look at him more in a philosophical kind of level. And you're like, Oh, wow. Okay. That's purpose. That's meaningfulness. People struggle to find that. And from my perspective, what I see in them is they choose the safe road. They choose the safe path. And they choose the, I'm just going to sort the, I'm just stoked with the nine to five office job. And take a couple of days off on the weekend. And that's my life. What do you think of that? What do you have to tell to those people? Well, so I guess there's two questions. What do I think of the nine to five and also funny meaning? I mean, for me, everything I found that's really meaningful. It's just a problem that I had personally, which I helped solve for myself and helping other people solve the same problem. I've, I've, uh, derived incredible meaning from that. So, you know, part of that is getting rid of the hassle of financial insecurity. You know, if I can help my clients get to a point where they have six months, uh, business expenses saved up, they've got a sales pipeline that looks really healthy. They feel confident hiring new stuff. And they're on track for retirement and they look like they could sell a slice of the business and they can actually pay themselves the sort of salary that they really should deserve. And like, stuff like that, you know, I've been pouring the past, uh, my parents just bought a yacht. So, that kind of kills my street creative, uh, but growing up poor, but, you know, if I'm cargouly, that's okay. Yeah, I grew, not even from cargouly, from the poor sub of in cargouly, from bolder, with a bolder primary. When I was in grade four, a kid in grade seven tried to stab the principal and got pepper sprayed. Like, that's the sort of school that I went to. Uh, there was no, let's go to the movies. There wasn't, not, not even any takeaway. And, uh, yeah, so like, if I can help someone with that, I find that incredibly satisfying. So what problem, what expensive problems can you solve? And when you solve them, you find it very satisfying. You know, I was in, I don't really matter where I was in, but I was around a campfire in Northern Thailand. And this, uh, chick was there. And she's saying that, um, Dennis chick, I think she's saying, yeah, I wanted to be a doctor, but now I'm not sure blah, blah. But really, I just want to help people, you know, that's what I feel. I want to help people. And I was just thinking, I think I was really drunk. I was just thinking, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard is of course everyone just wants to help people. Like, of course, when I was like, oh, yeah, that's kind of a fact. We all just want to help people. And if you're working in this nine to five corporate gig or whatever, and you're 37 degrees of separation away from like the finished product and the finished product is like, I slightly better hammer on a pair of jeans or something that's just so inconsequential to you, then of course, you don't go fuck about your job. Why would you drive any satisfaction from that? But if it's something that's like client facing, like I consult my clients, and I, when I first talking to them, they're so stressed out and they're so worried. And then after, you know, a few months working with them, uh, you know, they're telling me about the holidays that they can have. And, you know, I helped a guy basically enjoys holiday to Europe because he was able to free up, um, get it clean himself the bottleneck. Like, how could, how would you not derive a significant meaning from that? So just solve a problem for people that's expensive and they'll pay you to do it. Not everyone's suited to be an entrepreneur, obviously. But no, and it's so glorified these days. It's so like a, it's a trend, but it's not for everybody, you know, but that's where you got a taste test. You know, some people are happy working nine to five. They're actually genuinely happy. And that's fine. You know, they like working. No matter what it is, they just, they just stoked to have a job. And, uh, they come sound perspective too, you know. And those people that complain as well, it's like, you know what, there's so many people out there that would trade places with you in a second. You know, but, um, with your, what you just said about the 37 degrees, would you say that job satisfaction is easier to come by the less degrees you have in a job? Uh, yeah, I think so. So this is one of the things I've actually studied quite a bit is just job satisfaction, what makes job satisfying and what doesn't. And you know, keep out of depression. Well, the key is part of depression, generally, it's loneliness. But another key part of depression is just job satisfaction. How satisfied are you with your job? And this is a, these are like national, like huge surveys that you can very easily conduct. I'm just asking people this simple question. Most people not at all so I don't give a fuck. And they can dig in from that analytics, black out, which industries where they from, which sort of rolls where they in. Uh, it's like a very easy thing to empirically analyze, uh, doing it to use economics terms or regression analysis from because so much data there. And yeah, for me, if I help someone help someone help someone help a client, what do I give a fuck? You know, I, when I used to work at a CRM consultancy, our developers didn't have any, didn't have any contact with the clients at all. And I was actually part of that problem. I was like, I don't want the developers to even meet the clients because they'll confuse them because the clients will ask them a very, very technical question. And the developer will just give an, an unfernist answer that will ruin their expectations. Like, can the software do X? I mean, technically, it can, but in reality, because you staff are not going to use it that way and that's too much to expect probably not. And also it's a pain in the ass. At like, I didn't even want the developers in the same buildings of the client because they're just, they're just too huge damage to the sales process, basically. Like they'll destroy expectations by saying, yeah, we can program this. I mean, it's an unusable piece of shit. And there's no way your staff will go through it and it's way too manual. But they're just like, yeah, I can program. I cannot program it. But as a consequence, you know, their programming code, whoever just set up this, this better software system, don't get the relationship with the client beforehand. They don't see how stressed they were that, you know, they don't know where the fuck their money's going. They don't know what the fuck is going on. They can't afford to take a holiday. And they're just really stressed out. And they're not quite making enough money to cover the bills and things like that. So the developers of that company, yeah, probably outside of the work culture being actually a chat, then yeah, it's stocked for them. Yeah, I'm trying to, I'm trying to figure out ways we can link that to, you know, the kids and how they can, they can understand that a little bit better. Could you think of something? What would you tell kids at school based off what you just said into what they would expect the real world to be? So, okay, so one of the things that helped me was just doing, you know, very few personality tests are actually scientifically valid. The only one that psychologists even take a piss at is the big five, which is extraversion, neuroticism, agreeableness, conscientiousness, and openness to experience. And that doesn't really change. And the results are not always good. Like it's not going to be like, oh, yeah, oh, you came up as you're, you're an innovate, like sometimes like being if the result will come back and it's like, oh, you're very neurotic. That's terrible, terrible news. And you can't do a goddamn thing to change that ever. Good luck. Rest of your life. So that's your natural tendency. That will never change. You can change your behavior. You can change your habits. But it's not necessarily good news. And as a consequence, it's not that popular. It's like, when? Add in feel, well, I mean, for nothing after I did this personality test, like not everyone has a great personality. So if you can do like a big five or a, you know, a strengths find a personality test, that'll give you some sort of broad direction. Because when I was young, I was like, well, I like, well, fuck, I don't even think I did even think about what I like. Because you like, is you have no at like you watch fight club and like, well, that's what being in an office is like. I was like, no, it's not. But if you can do what is what is the day-to-day work of an accountant really involved? Like, you just have no idea in high school, even I don't even know what the fuck it involves. And I did accounting for a year at university. So what you want is a job that you will enjoy the day-to-day work of. So what is the day-to-day work? So I know a guy who's a stockbroker and it's very, very, very extroverted, very, very, very social guy. That's very helpful for a stockbroker. Yeah, yeah. And how he gets new clients is you guys and networking events and what sort of quasi networking events, business events and has a drink and talks to people. That's his day-to-day, making calls and talking to people and going to lunch with people and going to dinner with people and going to drinks to people. That's his day-to-day. Forget that it's stockbroking. That is, he talks to people a lot. And if he was a salesperson, he's whatever else. That's a guy who clearly likes people, likes talking to people, is extroverted against energy from that. And then how do you know that going in, you'd be like, "Alright, I'm a really social guy. I'm a people person. What sort of jobs best capitalise on that skill set?" And you can find that out. Like, you're already probably, if you do a strengths finder, personality test or a big five personality test, he will go, "What do you take these from?" So the big five, Jordan Peterson, is the one that put me under that. He released a set of lectures or something. Have you seen this? I haven't. So it's a personality course. So it's understand myself.com is the big five in strength, strength finders. I think is what it's called. I've done that as well. And it's just useful stuff. Would you be suited for something that involves lots of people? Would you be suited for something that's really technical? Would you basically like, are you interested in it? And if you're interested, and it's not as specific as, "Oh, you should be a lawyer or you should be a computer scientist." But it's more like, you should do something technical facing, such as engineering, computer science, or whatever. You should do something people facing, such as sales, stock working, consulting, whatever. But not consolidating to one specific niche. And in high school, you don't get that. You don't, you don't get that. And that's what I'm trying to say. And I'm glad to you that you went in that direction because from what I've experienced from school as a teacher, it's all just business. It's all trying to funnel them into university as quickly as possible. And I asked the kids, I'm like, "What do you want to do?" They're like, "I actually just want to do a trade. I don't want to do engineering. I had to kid ask me the other day." I like working on cars. That's great. Did you say that? Because boy, do I, boy, you went for a shock. There's a job where you can do that all day. I had one kid message me the other day. He asked me, he goes, "I'm a year 11 or 12. I think it was year 11." And he goes, "I really just want to do a mechanical apprenticeship, like mechanic, but my parents are reminding me of my $15,000 school fees between me and my sister. I feel like I'm obligated to go to union, study mechanic engineering." It's unclost. So I'm just like, "You know what? What do you want to do?" And he's like, "I want to be an apprentice mechanic and get my apprenticeship." And I'm like, "Go for it." You know? Yeah. Yeah, I feel like it's a very preventable problem. It's just literally, "Hey kids, you fucking 16. Everyone do this 30-minute personality test. And that'll point you in a broad direction. Are you a people person? Are you a technical person?" It breaks down more like, it's not just like a one or the other. It breaks down a bunch of different areas. It was like, "What sort of day-to-day activities would you enjoy?" These day-to-day activities would enjoy, all right. These are the careers that correspond to that. I have career counselors too. But I feel like they're not around as much as they used to be. Yeah. Well, I had a career counselor. I don't think she told me anything particularly interesting. I don't think she asked me that much about myself. And yeah, like kids just have no fucking idea what the day-to-day. I want to be a lawyer. Well, that's not a real, you can't be and anything. You're just going to be yourself. And it's just, "What are you going to do every day?" Yeah. I say the same. I say the same. What are you going to be? Well, what do you want to do every day? This is what they do every day. They do paperwork, they file shit out, and that's most of the job of a lawyer. They're not on TV fucking in a courtroom yelling at someone. That's maybe 5% of the role of an attorney. Most lawyers, they don't do that shit most of the time. So, is that what you like doing, filling out forms and formulating arguments because that's most of what the job, the day-to-day actually involves? And that's where work experience comes into play. When a kid tells me, "I want to be a doctor, I want to be an engineer, I want to be a lawyer," whatever. You know, all those glamorous jobs that you really need uni for. And I say to them, "Do you have a friend in any of these occupations?" They're like, a lot of them say no. Some say, "Yeah, my parents." And I'm like, "Okay, are you doing it because your parents are like, "Yeah, I'm like, do you want to do it?" They're like, "No." Why the hell are you following that path? Because, and I tell this to kids with great confidence more than ever before, they know themselves more than their parents do. And that needs to be put out a lot more. And that's where, like, the schools are afraid to do because they don't want the parents to shit on the teacher. Because they're like, "Why are you telling my kid that you shouldn't be a doctor? I'm not, I didn't say that." I just said that you're too young, you know? The question where you ask them, "What do you want to be when you grow up?" Is so dangerous. Jordan Peterson touched on that too. I think it was him, but I think it's a lot of other people. Don't ask your kids, "What do you want to be when you grow up?" Because that's pressure. And you shouldn't give them pressure. My mum got, God bless us all. She said to me, "Get a job, we'll go to uni." That's it. And I went to, I went to, got a job, lifeguard, best, like 12 months of my life with you guys. We worked together as lifeguards. That was fun. You remember those pooled-eck days? Oh, yeah. Yeah. So, you've, uh, zero lives. Zero lives? A couple of mannequins, but, you know, they were okay in the end. But, yeah, just, get a job, we'll go to uni. But no one died on my watch. Sorry about, same. Jordan? Oh, that's another story. Do you hear about that? Oh, yeah. Oh, dear. That's, everyone's like, "Oh, my God, what is it? What is it?" Some guy carcaded in a sauna and, yeah. But, yeah, so. I'll tell the story briefly. So, our other mate, so he's also named Jordan, not Jordan Peterson. So, he's also works in lifeguard. And when he was on-shelf at a different center, like a year later, an old guy died in the sauna, very old guy, probably had existing metal good issues. And Jordan gave him CPR. And he died. Like, did everything right, you know, it wasn't his fault at all, obviously. But, you know, and complimented by his bosses and stuff, you know, the right thing. But, you know, the guy shouldn't have been in the sauna. He'd been in the sauna for ages. It's extremely old. He died on him. And like, the next day he calls me and it's like, "Oh, yeah, blah, blah, blah, we're talking about whatever." He's like, "Oh, yeah, and a guy died on me yesterday." And I was like, "Really?" I remember when he came home and I was just like, "Why? Are you okay, man? You're late." And he had this like white face on him. I was like, "What happened?" And he told me the story. And I was like, "Brah." Yeah. But, no, my watch. Not on my watch, anyone died. Do you give him a shift for that? No, whatever. Fucking months. Yeah. We're going back to the whole career choice thing. I just sell the kids. Take your time. If school's not for you and you really gave a good hard crack, at the end of your 10s, start exploring your options. Do you want to do a trade? Do you want to be dealing with, you know, clients or people that are wanting to do over the top or trying to underpay your services, being a sparky or their conspiracy theory over you, whether you're not, you're taking a five minute piss break just so you can get that extra hour of work, you know? Do you want to do that? Or do you like that other side of it where, like you said, that fulfillment that you receive from when someone's like, "Oh, wicked. Now my electricity is back online." Thank you so much. My fridge is not going to die on me now. Yeah. But yeah, for the kids, it's just important that you taste as much as you can and not rush into it. I've actually become more of an advocate now than ever before to at least have a couple of gap years. Don't rush into uni. What are your thoughts on that? Yeah, I think the controversial thought. So why have I come as a degree from the University of US and Australia? Business school I got into UWA is I think at that time the hardest business school to get into in Australia. So I could have gone to any university in Australia. That degree and so my major is in marketing. My career has always been in marketing. I've never used that degree. It's complete waste of time. Right. 35,000 dollars. I'd much rather have three and a half years. I have never used a business degree majoring in marketing from a top university with a career in marketing. To get a job. To get any kind of job. And I've never referred back to any of those textbooks and all that information was basically useless. So with that in mind, yes. Definitely take a gap here or two or three. I took five but I had no idea I was going to go to uni. Yeah. Yeah. And now I I'm saying this as well. The stuff that I learned at uni, I probably could have slashed 90% of it. Yes. And the 10% was just like the, you know, you're like ever come across a course online and you just like have like a couple of questions. And you sign up because you want those couple of questions. And it literally took two minutes to answer them. But the rest of it's a waste. Yeah. That's university. Yeah. Literally university like my two things was, okay, how do you do behavior management? And how do you make sure that the kids understand what they're fucking doing? That's it. That's it. And then they go on about assessment. Like I did a personal development day the other day with the whole school. And they were talking about the curriculum and assessments and marking and shit. And I'm like, this is common sense. Yeah. And it's just like thanks for the update of nothing. Nothing's changed. And I it was literally a two hour come. Like I don't almost dozed off four times. Like me and my mate were texting during the time. Yeah. Talking about the the pedophile ring with the whole I'm not going to mention the words because I don't want to get cancelled on the podcast. All the the pedophilia rings around with the different people. The man who owns the island and things like that. The man who owns islands and those expensive cabinets. You know about that one? I'm not in the loop. Not a look. Okay. Story for another day. Or so I shall claim. Allegedly. But yeah. Going back to what you're doing now. Helping people get organized with their jobs and and really making it and making their lives easier. Where do you see yourself in the next five years? Or do you think that far ahead? So I never used to really think that long term. It's actually quite recently. We've reading the book Victor Frank calls a man said remaining in the 12 rules for life. I've started to prioritize more thinking. All right. Well, let's set some let's set some goals I care about. And so one of it means I just want to be basically the best business consultant in the world for my niche, which is web design agencies and just be like just be a I'm part of it. It's just absolutely dominating the share out of my competitors where there's just no way they can compete and for my ego and because it's fun because why not. And part of the thing I just want to do an absolutely tremendously undeniably extremely valuable job for my clients and just be the the very best business consultants in the world for that niche web design agencies for like solving that problem and just get incredibly incredibly like just the results like you have like a testimonial every now and then that is just like a holy shit testimonial. I want to get way, way, way more of those. And so yeah, I want to become incredibly good at that. I also would like to popularize location independent entrepreneurship and popularize an intelligent way of thinking about lifestyle design. So whether that's through content creation or some other future coaching or course that they put out, but yeah, effectively use my powers for good. I love it. I love it. For me, for me, I can really take a lot of information from that. Like I've kind of done my own thing with my business and like my personal training business. I think you were there for the foundations of it. I shit the bed for a lot of it. And then the second half I killed it, but I lost a passion. And then I was like, okay, I could have killed it, but I lost a passion. And that was my rule. If I lost a passion, I don't give a shit if I'm successful. I'm not happy. You know, there's no meaning. Yeah. So now I've got my wedding stuff and two years, two and a bit years in, I'm killing it. And like what you just said before I want to dominate. And you know, don't disrespect. I'm not going to be able to cover every wedding in Perth. I was thinking there was like 12,000 weddings last year. There's no way, you know, but just to be that top, I like that. It's like, I'm not here to take part. I'm here to take over. And I want to be at the top and be that not be in the market, but be the market. And be the guy be like, oh, you booked out. Do you have any other one you can recommend? You know, get to that point. I'm starting to feel it. And still I don't feel like no one knows who I am properly. But with my social media game, it's been crazy. And people are saying my passion and my like legitimacy. Because a lot of people have told me, oh, you're in the wedding photography. You're doing it for the money, aren't you? I'm like, no, no, I'm not. I actually genuinely like it. The networking, the different people I meet, the people that I meet, and I still talk to them. It's a no brainer because it's like a relationship forever. You can go with any, like the value of networking. That's my obsession right now is anybody and everybody you can talk to has a value of some sort, some way, somehow. You may never use it, but it's good to have it. I went for a walk the other day and I bumped into this guy just down the park here locally. He used to be a CEO of a company called JC. I don't remember what the acronym stands for, but the this guy, he's like this multi-millionaire dude. And he's told me so many stories about in his last 30, 40 years. And he starts talking. He's very thorough with the stories. And I'm like, where is he going with this? And then halfway through the story, it clicks for me. I'm like, this is where it's going. And I'm just like so invested in it, but random guy down at the park. And I'm like, I'm so glad I went at that exact time to me, to that exact person. He's like in his 70s, he was wearing a suit after consulting this multi-millionaire, a multi-million dollar firm that and he came and spoke to me for a couple of hours. And he's like, yeah, I'll mentor you. You sound like you got your head switched on. I was just like, damn, that's good to hear, you know? And like for me, the biggest thing he said for me was, what can I do for you? Nice. And I didn't have an answer straight away because it was like, what can he do for me? And after a few more minutes of talking, my answer was networking. Introduce me to every single person that's still alive that you know. For the last 30 years. And then he started talking about a videographer, a filmmaker that he knows who killed it, who still kills it. And he says, this is a range of meaning. So that's like the sort of journey I'm going to through now. Because my long term to answer the question I asked you is to be able to walk away from any career that I want, not because I've lost a passion on lazy or whatever, because I've got that passive income to be like, all right, let's move to free man. I'll start a coffee shop just to see how we go. Just for fun. And if you fail, the passive income still taking care of you. So that's my challenge at the moment. But for some people that are listening to this, they're miles behind or they're thinking of that. What would you say the three main principles are to get to where you want to better or more confidently? So figure out like, okay, so I guess the process should be figure out what is your personality? I used to think that I was introverted. No way. No way. I don't believe you. I've known you for many, many years. There's no way you're introverted. Yeah. And you're exactly right. That's amazing. But I didn't know that. I was like, because I was weird. And I was like, I think I'm introverted. Definitely very weird. But what made you think that you introverted? Because I was weird. Okay. So did this personality test and it operates by a percent? It's not your extroverted annual into a sensory, whatever it's like, all right, compared to other people, compared to the rest of the population, you are more extroverted than, and my score was, you are more extroverted than 99% of other people. I really want to take this test. And I was like, holy shit, am I really? And at that time, I was working at home by myself and I would go out three or four times a week or whatever to get dinner or drinks. And that was it. And then from there, I was like, why the fuck am I working by myself at home if I'm this extroverted? If I really enjoy socializing that much, why the fuck am I living my life this way? And so then I was like, all right, and in Vietnam has like a huge, an awesome cafe culture, coffee culture. I was like, well, why don't I just work at cafes and co-working spaces with my mates every day? And I was like, oh, I'll just try that out. And so eventually ended up co-working with someone seven days a week or five days a week or whatever. And then why don't I get dinner or drinks or watch a movie or watch some comedy or perform some comedy or play some music or watch some music or something every evening? Why don't I just do that? Just try that out. And so now I'm doing something social 14 times a week. And I was significantly happier the next week. I significantly happier. But like, it just didn't, until it's written down in front of you, like you just don't necessarily, it's easy to dilute yourself as well. It's like a horoscope almost. So a lot of person, that's the problem with a lot of personality tests is they read the horoscopes. Wow, you know, you're very intelligent and ambitious and hardworking. And it's like, yeah, like it's so vague. But something that's like, you are more extra than 99% of people, you're like, well, that's not vague at all. That's very specific. You thrive off beating other people. Yeah. Yeah. And one of the other ones was you've extremely disagreeable, which is not necessarily good news. No, it's not like a lot, disagreeability is extremely overrepresented in the prison population. If you're, I'm very high conscientiousness as well. But if you have very low conscientious and very high disagreeability, your life is fucking chaos because you're not organized enough conscientious, enough to get that much shit done. And you're very prone to conflict. And I just never, until I got the person I just disagreeability, I'd always know people would describe me as blunt. And I never really realized that they were sort of talking in code. And I was like, okay, this is a big problem to solve. And then after that, you know, just blanket rule, I don't argue with anyone for any reason ever. Be wrong. I think the fuck. And so that, that's interesting. So figure out the fuck your personality is. And then base upon that figure out, all right, of the available careers. And it wasn't really a matter of which filled the room. What's a sort of day to day activity that I would kind of enjoy. And then based on what, what's the day to day that I'll enjoy figure out which careers engineer truth is probably the best YouTube channel I'd recommend for that as they interview people in actual jobs and feels like, what is your day to day actually like, how much money do you actually make? What is actually involved? Figure out something that you would enjoy that you would enjoy doing if it paid you, well, trying to get, at least trying to get paid a hundred grand regardless. But you know, whether you're getting paid a million or getting paid a hundred grand, you know, something you would just, like, I enjoy this job regardless of how much it paid me. Yeah, you need to enjoy the job regardless of a month you paid like a hundred grand is is a big number to just throw out there. Like people are stoked to be paying getting paid 40 grand, but it also depends on the lifestyle you live. Like I would probably say I would need not need, but I want, want a hundred grand minimum for my future endeavors. And I looked at the numbers that I only need 20 grand for to survive. The rest of the money is purely for specific things like the sort of house design I want, not to flex on people, but I want high ceilings, high fucking door frames because I'm big and, you know, a garden for Sabine so she can just go out there and I can, you know, enjoy myself. But you know what I mean? Like, but yeah, so the money is not like the main factor. But so, all right, so let's, let's, over, let's go. Yeah, personality tests. You've got your figure out what you like doing. And the third one was so, so yeah, so figure out, all right, based on my personality, what's a day-to-day type of thing that I would like? And then I, which career's correspond to that? Checking engineer truth YouTube channel, which I'm actually on an episode of. And then get a fucking job where you can really, really, really, really, really start to get very, very good at. And you don't necessarily the most experienced person when you join, but you have the best attitude and you love it and you just get the best set and then climb the corporate ladder or set up your own thing. And the the more valuable you are, the more of an income you can command and also the more bargaining, the more, yeah, then all the more bargaining power you can also yield for, you know, I want to take the best in the world. You're just like, yeah, this is my fee. I'm the best. You want the best? This is my fee. Yeah. I have a question for you for my personal stuff. With what I do, I'm not worried about it, but I am conscientious of it, losing the passion, because I've lost the passion for a few things, but they were going in a very good direction. Do I just accept that and just go for it? Because I feel like in the last 10 years, I've jumped ship so many times and some people can go, why are you wasting opportunities? You know, I don't give a shit what they say. You know, with a whole personal training business, I could still play footy. And I don't like the word if, rigid Kipling, you know, the poem if not sure. It's a good poem for you to have a look at, but we'll start it from me right now from memory. No, it's a long, nice poem, but it's pretty much saying if you can, if you can put up with everyone's shit, but not be a shit person, you're going to, you're going to be well. If you can, if you can, if you can bet it all on one, on one roll of the dice, lose it all and start fresh and not complain, you're going to do fine. That's pretty much for the poems based off. But like for me, that's literally what I've done. I've built up a few businesses, done well in them, but just I haven't lost, I haven't made a massive gamble to lose. I just lost the passion. So and that's why the whole passive income comes into mind so that I can scale a business and then if I'd won out of it because a guy told me I had a Perth angel investor at the start of the year said to me, what if in 10 years time you don't want to do waiting for photography anymore? You know, you're pretty much starting again. You can do ebooks, you can do courses, teaching other people how to do it. What if you don't want to do that? You know, I don't want to force myself to be like, hey guys, I've done a thousand weddings over the last however many years. So just to cut you off, so that's exactly what I would do. Yeah. So I love, you know, consulting, coaching, web design agency, and it's in how they can scale the business. So it's not that difficult for me to make a course out of that. A lot of it is the same thing every time for each person and I'm very articulate. So as soon as I get sick of that niche, as soon as I get sick of help, well, the niche, all the problem, you know, after a thousand, after the one thousandth time that I've helped someone, you significantly improve their sales script or whatever so that they can, you know, double their closing rate and now I'm bored of it. Is this something every time I'm making a course. And now I don't have to teach it again. Then I can make the course and then I just promote the course. And then the content's in the course and I can get it down to a point where, you know, it is really good. You know, I deliberately have not, I'm working with a sales coach at the moment and I've deliberately pushed off making, you know, video course out of this and just doing group coaching instead because I want to get it to a better level. Yeah, I would just make a fucking course. It still early days for you. It's more like middle days at the moment, but yeah, maybe maybe next quarter, like there was going to be this quarter's goal, but maybe it's next quarter's goal, you know, make a course out of it and do group coaching. And then the next level after that, the quarter after that is just a course that basically sits for itself. And then that I just employ, you know, virtual assistants to run that. Then I move on to what's another niche that I want to help or what's a different problem that I want to solve? Photographers. Yeah, yeah. So maybe like literally, maybe I can just teach photographer. Yeah, if you set up a course and then that can run by itself and it can and just get someone else to manage it. And then you didn't really, sometimes you forget that you even run this business because you have no day to day involvement. You've made it totally passive. That's the plan. Yeah, I'm glad that I'm glad that what I'm thinking is what you would have said because that builds my confidence as well. And the one thing that is massive right now is COVID. A lot of cowboys leaving the game because they don't want to risk another pandemic. This is what I've been hearing. Right. So imagine me, I waiting for the photographer as my main thing at the moment with, I don't know how many are there 50, 60, 80 legitimate wedding photographers that probably, half of them are probably hobbyists. Half of them are probably career. I'm more the career side now. A lot of them are going to stop based off of fear based off of just not being able to carry on with it. So I'm jumping so many levels up to the top. And none of these people are going to do courses. They're going to do other things. So I'm kind of by default, not by default, but just by sheer nature of the market. Nature of the market. I'm going to get to a level now. And I've got 36 weddings in the next 12 months averaging $2,000 each. Yeah. So for me, setting up a course is a very, very, like, that's not a lateral move. That's like a very obvious, especially the next step because I go from teasing people how to do stuff through one-on-one coaching sessions to teaching people how to do stuff via group coaching with a supplementary course to teaching people how to do stuff via just a course. And maybe some VA's sort of answer regularly, I'd like the frequently asked questions. So you're still basically buying the same thing. You're just buying information. You're so fine. So for you, if you could set it up as an agency or something like that, we have some photographers underneath you. I don't want that headache because that means that's a brand and I don't want people to shit on that. But it's difficult because after you shoot your thousands wedding, are you really going to give a shit like. That time tells that one. You can't really tell. Like, some people are a lifelong because they just love it. But, you know, everybody has a timer. But I understand more now when you say, when you've done it so many times, one, you get sick of it, but two, you get so confident what you're talking about that the course is the natural thing to happen. And I see that. I'm definitely not there yet. One thing I know, though, is I really can't teach to be extroverted. Like, I see a lot of people. A lot of photographers are saying to me, "How do I get into weddings?" And I look at them and I'm like, "Dude, you bailed on our group event because you had anxiety from social anxiety. How the hell are you going to survive in an extroverted environment where you have to talk to literally everyone at the wedding?" Yeah. Why are you trying to spin on a stream? Yeah. So I'm not going to look into that specifically. But, you know, if there was a drug to make you more extroverted and not give a shit about. Fanny butt, by the way, it exists and I've taken it and it's fantastic. Really? Fanny butt. Yeah. Dick Ries's social anxiety, General Moonburts also increases the libator, not that that matters, and makes music sounds better too. Make your music sounds better? Yeah. Well, and is this like an open market supplement? This is on the illegal-ish side. Sorry to get your hopes up, guys. But I don't need the government to tell me what does or doesn't make sense and what is or is not safe depending on how I use it. Yeah. Well, that's fair enough. For me, I'm just trying to. I think I'm doing pretty well. There's a quote from Charlie Munger, one of the richest people in the world, Warren Buffett's business partner, and Billionett, Billionett, Billionett. And he says that like one of the key to financial success in life is come up with just one good idea, just one, not not two or five or whatever, just one kind of one idea and just do that forever and then you'll be. you'll get so good at that. And so for him and for Warren Buffett, what's the idea? I'll just. I'll pick stocks that are undervalued and I'll buy them and I'll do that for other people as well. And that's all they do, eight hours a day, every day and Warren Buffett and Charlie, they're both like 80 now. They've been doing this for like 60 years. They're so good at it and they love it and they're building this from it. Like if you can find something where in 80 years you're not going to be sick of it, be like, "Ah, fuck yeah, I get to look at account balance sheets and see all this stocks undervalued." You know, it says it's worth a billion dollars but really it's worth a billion, five hundred thousand dollars. So a billion, 1.5 billion dollars. So I should buy it and then later on in the link recent value. Oh, yeah, like if that's what gets you going and that's called your passion. Yeah, absolute passion. Yeah, so I agree with that. And that's where this generation of kids coming up now, they expect it to be. it's going to happen for them straight away, straight out of the high school. And then when it doesn't, they get depressed, they want to kill themselves. It's a laughing matter but it's true, you know. But yeah, I just. And that's where the whole taste testing comes along. Like I'm up to my. Fuck, I just count. I think I'm up to like 20, something in my 20s now of different career choice. And I studied for four years at uni and I wish I could take it back. But the things along the way that led up to this moment, I wouldn't really change because of where I am. I'm stoked with where I am, you know? Yeah, I'm stoked with where I am as well. So stoked. And I'm pretty honored that you come in for around two, for a conversation, for someone like, I'm not shitting on myself. I feel like I'm a pretty intelligent guy. But with yourself, we always had those kind of semi-philosophical half of the time I didn't know what the fuck you're talking about. But now I know kind of like I'm more no in tune with what you're talking about. It took me a little while. But it took a little bit of self-reflection and we're like, okay, what am I doing with myself? And just before the age of 30, you know, I kind of cut it up into decades. Not that there's a barrier after jump across. It's like, sweet. I've tasted it in my 20s. And in my 30s, it's just like, I just feel like I'm just going to dominate exponentially with my money wise. I know what to do with it. But now it's like finding that gap in the market and really killing it in the business game. And I like your idea of being what would you say? Not confined to a specific workspace where you can go travel anywhere and work from anywhere. Location dependent. So if I can set something up with that based off of what I'm doing now or whatever I could find in the future, maybe it's podcast, maybe it's giving advice to kids or whatever like that. If I can somehow monetize that and do that and be in, I don't know, wherever when once COVID finishes. Brilliant. If I talk about my head, when's the slow wedding season? When the people not get married? Okay. So I'm glad I asked you asked me this because I haven't really talked about this one thing that I've started to think about in the last couple of weeks. So slow wedding season season here in Australia's winter. So ginger like August. All right. So how Canadians do travel? And so the dumbest people I've ever met who are able to travel in the world are all Canadian. And it's not because Canadians are dumb, they're not. It's just because there's a greater like if you're in Canada, there's a greater demand to get the fuck out of Canada during because their winters are worse than other countries winters. And so I met a lot of people who are not that particularly brighter or not that not that switched on and they just don't want to be in Canada during the winter. And so like my favorite style of travel as a lifestyle is what's the worst season and just travel during that season. So if there's fuck all gigs on during winter or anyone. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What I'm doing. Yeah. And perth shit during winter anyway. Yeah. It's travel during winter. Yeah. So my strategy now, the best two seasons are spring and autumn. Yeah. And the worst two seasons are winter and dead dick of summer. So like January. There's still like summer weddings. But I tell my clients that they suck. And I'm like, are you sure? I'll do it. But you're going to be sweating. So many flies. Yeah. So many flies and your suit. You're going to hate your suit within five minutes. So ideally I want to do 25 weddings a year. Maybe a little bit less. Have it at between five to six grand per booking. And then the rest of the time I'm in winter. I'll be in Europe because that's summer. And then in summer here I'll be in Japan snowboarding because that's winter. That's that's ultimate. If I can do that. You can do that. You can do that this year. Yeah. Well, absolutely. Absolutely. And I'm booked out for the next year and I'm trying to figure out what I can do next. But I guess we'll see what happens and scale it from there and then create a passive income. Nice. Yeah. Nice. Oh, guys. Well, that's curing browning for you. We are we are yeah, catching up. We caught up a couple of weeks ago and he hit me up to catch up again and I was just like cool. Let's do it. And Thursday night we had a combo. I hope you enjoyed it. If you have any questions, feel free to message me on Instagram at service picks or email me. You know the one. It's on the description always. I appreciate you. We hit 5,000 listens the other day and we're averaging just over 85 viewers per episode. So if you guys are listening right now and you want to add value, any one of you please feel free to leave a review on iTunes. Five stars as always, you know, because it's great. And the best review I'll read out in the next episode and shout you out. So you get a chance to be mentioned on the podcast. But thanks very much for curing for coming in today. One final sign off from you. If there was one piece of advice you give anyone about anything what would it be? If you have a really big problem, invest money in solving it and invest time in solving it. Like what's the most expensive solution towards it? And it's probably not buying a book. It's probably hiring someone to pay to do it for you. And yeah, if it's very valuable, how much does it really worth to solve? And if it's worth a lot, pay someone to help you with it. Perfect. There you go, guys. You read it. And hopefully we can hear about more of Kiran's stories and get a second round of podcast episode with him and see where he's at in a couple of months, years, decades, wherever and work together. And yeah, all the best for your journey. And thanks for coming in. I'm just pitched myself go to curinbrowning.com, ki.org, browng.com. If you want help with scaling your agency or whatever, check check out myself. Do it now. Goodbye.