2898: How to Do Pull Ups in 30 Days (The Exact Method That Actually Works)

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Being able to do a pull up or pull up, it's a great accomplishment, but you struggle. You've been trying for a long time. You can't do it. We're going to give you the formula. Be able to do pull ups in 30 days. Let's get to it. Justin's been trying for 45 years. So close. He's a heavy case. He's got to hold my bottom. This was a, did you guys get this often with your clients? Yeah. Especially female clients where they're like, I want to be able to do a pull up. Yeah, it was a big goal. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's a fun goal. It's a great exercise, but it's, you know, high resistance, right? You're lifting your body weight. But being able to do it is, it's fun. It's a great back exercise, very functional. And a lot of people who want to do more pull ups go about it the wrong way. I think that they believe if they just train their back more or add in more pull pull downs and just increase the volume that that's going to do it. Not realizing that there is a way to get better at a skill, which is all exercises or skills. There's a much faster way to get good at it's actually interesting how little getting really strong in your back actually plays a role. Yeah. You could get really strong in your back and see a minimal difference. Now, if you take somebody who's never lifted and you get a strong back, you tell us that you test them the first day and they can't do a single pull up or maybe they can do one. And then you will get them a strong back. They can probably do a couple, but there's not a lot of carryover. Not like you would think there would be. Well, again, people first strength the weight ratio. It's like you'd probably do better. It's getting leaner. Well, so there's strength to weight ratio, but also this is a big one is that people, you know, when they look at exercises, they look at exercises as it relates to body parts. So it's like those are chest exercises. Those are shoulder exercises. Those are leg exercises. And that's true, but exercises are skills. And so if for example, if your goal was to throw a baseball twice as far as you currently can and you wanted to get really good at throwing a baseball really far, there's two approaches you could take. The approach that would be wrong would be, let me strengthen all the muscles involved and throwing a baseball. So I got my lats involved. There's some forearm flexors involved. I got the, you know, infraspinatus and okay, I got to strengthen my hips a little bit. So I go to the gym and just work on those muscles or I could practice throwing a baseball. Which one is going to get accomplished the goal faster practicing throwing a baseball because it's a skill. When we look at exercise, we just don't look at him that way. We just look at the muscles involved and think, well, let's just get those muscles stronger, which is part of it. But the other part of it is this is a skill. So the number one with being able to do pull ups, if you really want to be able to do pull ups in 30 days, catch your legs off. That'll do it. Is you practice them daily, every day. You practice them. Now, this is different than training them every single day. So the mistake someone would make with this is they go and do, you know, pull up workout every single day. That is a great way to get yourself to do less than you currently can do. That's how you over train yourself. What you do is you go and you practice and there's a variety of different ways to do this. But you practice them at a load of moderate intensity every day, you know, maybe a couple times a day without pushing the intensity and what you'll find is strength gains in this specific movement increase dramatically and rapidly. Yeah, it's, I know the audience is probably tired of hearing the story that I think we've all shared because I think we all have a personal story related to this and I mine is so vivid because it's still I don't think I ever have exceeded this this pull up feet for me. And it was so unintentional. It wasn't even like a big workout. I was into I was working out in high school, but like very minimal and not appropriately. I'm not doing a lot. I was doing a lot of things wrong, you know, nutritionally program wise, everything. But when I worked at the dairy, which I worked at five, sometimes six, seven days a week, and I milk cows. There was the where you came into where the stalls were. There were these bars that were just these big, thick bars above me that were just a little bit above. I just had to hop up a second and just as a tradition, I would walk in and I'd jump on it real quick and I'd swing up and I literally only do like three to five. It was not like a workout. Yeah, I wasn't like doing it to work out. I like did it just like I did it's the mess around mess around. It was messing around. And I did it every every day. Every day I would jump up there and do that. And you know, that was I worked there for years. And before I knew it, it was just like it felt like nothing. It actually felt like it was so easy for me to pull my body weight up. I felt like I could just do as many as I wanted. And it was so wild to to see that. And then years later, getting into gym and lifting weights and trying to build my back and build muscle. And I was never that I could never get that good. And I but I never had applied it to that to that level where I just every day dedicated to do in a handful of them. And it's wild with a difference. I think he to what you're saying is frequency of practice in low intensity. Yeah, wasn't going and never went to. You could have probably wrapped out 15. Yeah, but you're doing three. Yeah, just so that people get an idea of what that intensity looks like. I had a similar experience. It wasn't with pull ups. It was with bench press. I had it. This I've told this story before. I had this trainer that worked for me that he could bench press four plates. Okay. So he was just really, really strong at the bench press. And I never really saw him work out. And it wasn't because he didn't work out. I just don't think I was there paying attention to the times. But what I did notice was that in between his clients, he'd load up the bench. So remember this guy who could bench press 400 pounds, he would load up like 275 or 315. He'd get under the, he would mess around basically. He'd get under the bar. He'd do like a couple reps and rack it up. And I always thought I actually didn't think anything of it. I thought he was just playing around. And one day, you know, I had a chance to hang out with them. And at this time, you know, I'm a young kid. And then, you know, in the 90s, bench press was like the lift. That's how you talked about how strong you were. And I'm like, dude, how did you get so strong at bench press? He's a huge guy. He was a big guy, but not big enough to where you could think you bench a 405. And he goes, oh, I don't even train it. I'm like, what? Like, so you're just naturally strong at bench press. He goes, no, he goes, all day throughout the day, he goes, I just go into the bench and I full around and mess around throughout the day. Like, that's all you do. He's like, yeah, practice it. And then I read Soviet era studies on strength training and how they trained some of their athletes. And they had similar approaches to getting their athletes to increase their strength in a specific lift dramatically. And so this is what it looks like for someone listening, right? So let's say you can't do any pull ups because maybe you can't do any at all. And you're like, I want to be able to do at least one or two. You'd set up a pull-up bar in a doorway someone in your house, set it up with a with assistance with a band. So you could hook your knee or your leg underneath it. And you would, you know, two or three times a day, you'd go up there and do like one or two easy pull ups. And you would just practice them every single day. It's just pattern recognition. Yeah. At the end of the day, it's just like learning a language. Like, you're going to get more knowledgeable about the sequencing of that. And your your bias is going to respond so much better the more that you, you know, expose it to it. So it's it's it really is that. And it's like, you know, maybe we, you know, we add a little bit more stress to that. And, you know, there's certain techniques you can do. Like if you can't do a pull-up right away, you know, you might want to just hold. You might want to have isometric. You might want to work on the eccentric part. But it's really the exposure of like going through that entire range of motion. Maybe assisted. But the more frequently you can do that, with less stress and more skill, the better. So years ago I had a female client that I did exactly that. So she take came to me, I really wanted, we had been trainer for a while. So she already been working out, she's like, I really want to do pull ups. So I said, and I did all the stuff we're going to talk about on top of this. But one thing that I said was it said, set up a pull up bar and you can't do a pull up. So what I want you to do is get a step so you can get up to the pull up bar so that you're already, it's like you already finished a pull up, then bend your knees and slowly lower yourself. And usually that one time and do that like three times a day. And it wasn't very long at all. She was able to do more than once. She was able to do like two or three full pull ups. I mean, we all have these crazy stories. When I was Hillsdale, so I'm 25, I had this guy Rafael from New York who was in his mid 40s at the time. And of course, this is my 20, 20 something year old brain defaulted to, oh, he takes up kinds of steroids. That's why he looks like. He was size. Yeah. And he never worked out. He never had a half hour hour block of training, never one. And he worked for me for years. And he was absolutely jacked and claimed he was natural. And I didn't believe it, especially because the way I saw he worked out and the way he worked out was you. We all know that the South tells the story of how he used to stuff food down between the five to 10 clients. That's right. Everyone has about five to 10 minutes between clients. What he did was walk over the dumbbell rack and did two sets of curls or walk over the bench press and just do two sets of bench press. Just between clients all day long, all day long. And I actually interpreted it too is like one, I thought he was in steroids or two. This guy so insecure. Yes, he keeps lifting to keep a pump all the time. And that's his thing. But he was like, that's how I work out. I just, I don't ever do a full hour workout. I don't have time to do that. It's easier for me just to do this all day. And I just didn't believe him. I didn't believe him whatsoever. And I'm so inspired by that way of training that, you know, part of the motivation I've talked off air. I think to you guys, I don't know if I've publicly talked about this, but you know, working on building an outdoor gym at my house. And I'm outside a lot, especially with max and the pools and with that. And I'm just going to make it a goal. I'm going to log it too. So I'm not going to just really nearly do it. I'm going to try and kind of track it to get an idea of what I'm doing and just kind of keep a little notebook there and just like, oh, did two sets of this to this and just kind of see where everything lands. But I'm inspired to not do any traditional kind of lifting and just make an effort every, you know, every time I walk outside or I go for a swim or I lay out or I go in my sauna and all those things are outside. And I go, I'm barbecuing out there. I'm just going to walk over to the dumbbell, the pull up or the squat right on just do a set or two and then walk away and just see if I can tally up what would be a general workout in a day or two and just see what happens and that's the the Soviets wrote a lot about that style of training for building. And I know it's not realistic for the average listener, right? Like not everybody has that luxury. So I get why we've all kind of as a society conform to this one hour blocks three days a week or whatever like that. But you know, from everything that I've seen, what I've experienced personally from the stories you guys just share, it almost seems like this would be ideal if you had that, if you had that luxury. I think so. And again, for someone listening who wants to do this with pull ups, this is actually, this is easy with pull ups because pull up bars are really inexpensive. Right. Put them in a doorway. Put them in your doorway house. You just practice this like literally two or three times a day and just and it has to feel like practice. Don't make it a workout, which takes us to the second point here, which is avoid any other back work. So this will not work if you also once or twice a week have a long intense back workout. Yeah, you've got to avoid all other back work for 30 days and all your back work is going to be this daily two or three times a day. I go up and I help up and I practice. By the way, don't because that might, you know, discourage somebody because like, oh my God, I don't want to lose my bike. Nope, you will develop a pull ups are such a great exercise for developing the back. And so if you if you go from not being good at pull ups to being great at pull ups in 30 days, but you missed, you skipped deadlifting for a while or you skipped doing rows for a while, trust me, you're going to have a good back. I mean, this is a good, good at any lift. You have to kind of trade it out like in focus on that and get rid of the junk volume. And that's kind of like, you know, it's the recipe. If you really, this is a goal of yours to get better at it, you know, you just have to, you know, get rid of some of the other exercises that are kind of deterring you from just all your focus on this. That's right. Well, you just recently learned that lesson again, right? Going through your whole journey with the push press and you were trying to compliment it with all these auxiliary things and you're saying it like logically, you think it makes sense to kind of build up from, you know, the whole like so I'm not, I need to like, get all these other ranges of motion to kind of, you know, make sure like the joints stable and this and that and the other. But really it was taking away from, you know, the bucket of what I could really output. And so like, you know, if you just emphasize that more and you just focus completely on that, you're going to get really good fast. No, real good. That's, and again, this is 30 days. So you're fear like, okay, I'll give this a shot. Just give it a shot for 30 days to watch what happens. Now, the next thing is you're trying to get stronger. Don't do this in a deficit. So, and I don't mean you need to be in a crazy bulk, but feed your body because we're trying to get you stronger. There is, of course, it can be an argument for losing weight to be able to do a pull up, totally get that. So for some people who have a lot of weight to lose, might be better to strategize to lose some weight to be able to do a pull up. But for most people, don't do, don't under eat to try to get stronger. It's typically a terrible thing. No, I mean, if you want a crazy recipe for getting bad assed at pull ups is you follow what you're saying in a surplus for 30 days and then you go in a 30 day cut and keep it up. And then what happens? Yeah. Drop an extra of 5, 10 pounds or 15 pounds and keep doing the pull up thing. And also, and you'll see your pull ups go double triple what you were doing after you did the 30 days of bulking. That's right. Here's the other thing. You're doing this for 30 days. For 30 days, also get really good sleep. So prioritize your sleep. Nothing kills, strength gains, like poor sleep. Being increases risk of injury, like poor sleep. Nothing will hammer your hormones as terribly as poor sleep. So you're doing a 30 day challenge. So for the next 30 days, just sign up for, I'm going to bed at the same time every night and I'm waking up at the same time every morning. And you add this to what we said and watch what happens. And then lastly, set up your test day. So you're going to have a day where you're like, okay, this is the day, 30 days from now or 40 days from now. This is the day I'm going to see if I can hit a new PR and pull up or if I could do a pull up. Here's what you're going to do to set yourself up. Take four to five days off before that. You want to give yourself enough time to be totally fresh. Set yourself up. Film yourself. Send it to us. I'd love to see people be able to do pull ups. No, would you not recommend during this 30 days once a week having a day where you kind of rep out? No. Still no. No, just literally, this is a third. So if it was a longer, if we're doing this for 90 days, if we're doing this for then yes. But when you're doing it for a short pretty time, you want low level frequent stimulus daily. And that's it. And you will shock yourself at how strong you are when you finally go test yourself. It's pretty well. So again, the Soviets did this with certain lists like they would do this with squats. They would take a lift. Like let's say you had an athlete who could do 500 pounds for five reps in a barbell squat. They would go 315 and they would do five reps every day. That's it. No matter what, it was always the same. 315 five reps. And it would feel easy. 315, like, and what would end up happening over 30 days, it kind of felt easier and easier and easier. Then they would give them some time off, test it, and then they'd hit 10 reps with 500 pounds. Like your new floor. Yeah. It's like the new baseline. So let's imagine I'm somebody who can only get about five pull ups in right now. And I'm going to do this for the next 30 days and I'm going to practice this throughout the day. So I go in and invest in, I don't even think those pull up hours are very expensive. 20, 40 bucks at most. Yeah. It was one that go in your door frame. I would put it in my bedroom door frame that I walk in and out of the most out of anything. And I'm guessing I would only do two pull ups. One or two. Yeah. One or two pull ups. Five times plus a day. Yeah. If you're doing it that much, I do one. If it's five times, you're just doing one. You're hopping up, one pull up, coming away. No way. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. No, no, no. If I can do five, you're saying do singles all five. Five is failure. That would be three set reps short of failure to do too. Yeah. Three reps short of failure. If you're going to practice it that often, it's got to be much lower. But I mean, I've tested this so many times. It has to be like you're playing like one. You're going to walk away. If you're doing it five times in a day, yeah. It's literally just one. That's if you're doing it twice in a day, maybe, but if you're going to practice that often, it literally needs to feel like you're just because I feel like you need to do it. At least the amount of volume that you could already do, right? So it makes sense that you wouldn't go, you wouldn't go less than five total. I'm glad you asked this. It's remarkably less intense than you think to practice something like this. It's way less. In fact, that's where everybody messes up. Is they push it a little bit? Yeah. A little bit. And then they don't see the progress. Because I feel like if I was going to do single, so my, we were just going to stick with this number five. That's like five is your max. Yeah. Five is my max. If I was to do singles, and I'd want to try and do it like eight times or more a day, that way I'm still, I'm still getting more total volume than what I could do in a single set. almost it, but not at a high intensity. - I mean, you could practice it that way. I think five is a lot for every single day for 30 days, but you know, experiment with it. But I'm gonna say this, I'm gonna hammer this home. - I mean, I guess way less than you think. - I guess to your point, what I wouldn't wanna see. So let's say I do go about it. - 'Cause I'm pretty confident that if I could do five in a row, and I do singles for five times in a day, I'm never gonna feel like I can't get that one. That'll just feel easy. - Every time. - It'll feel easy every time. But I could see if I did that eight times, maybe by time seven or eight, like it's kind of hard. - Maybe a little tighter. - Well, let me ask you this, when you were doing this as a kid, when you were practicing, how many clubs do you think you could do max at that time? Before you got good. - Oh, I mean, I guess you're good point. I could probably do 15, and I was doing like three. - That's right. - It's literally, it needs to feel like easy. And you're doing it so far. - So far with a ton of space in between. - Yes. - Yeah, a lot of time in between. - Yes. - That's how this works. If it starts to feel like I'm getting a little bit of a workout, you're probably going to hurt. - Yeah, yeah. - Which is really hard to do. - It was me just doing two or three, and it was throughout like every hour. - Exactly, for the five hour workout. - Exactly. - The five hour or six hours shift, I would do. - Yep. - Yeah. Okay. - Yeah. - I mean, that's fair. - No, it's wild. - We talked about eating more, which maybe think about this. So, you know, a lot of times people increase their protein intake through protein powder, which is totally fine, very convenient, easy. But, you know, I think a good strategy for some people, a better strategy might be just to eat like three or four of the Pile Valley meat sticks throughout the day. Like, it's meat, it's minimally processed. - Yeah. - It's got more nutrients, tastes good. It's got long shelf life, so it's just, it's actually more convenient. You're have to put it in a shaker cup. Take them with you, eat one in between your meals. You know, three of those is going to give you, what is that going to give you? 28 grams, 26 grams of protein. - Yeah, bump in your protein. - Totally. - No, does that, you said it has more nutrients. Is it more natural nutrients and not fortify? Cause supplements are fortified with a lot of nutrients. - It's meat, yeah. - It's grass fed meat, you know? And so you're gonna get-- - That's a good source. - Yeah, dude, so you're just, again, it's-- - And closer to whole natural-- - And comparing that is, is what we're comparing when we compare to something that is fortified in nutrients and heavily processed for some reason. It's minimally processed and more natural nutrients. Is it just a bioavailability? - Usually, usually. And no, there's companies out there really good protein powder companies that will put good nutrients in there. But sometimes they put nutrients that don't have good bioavailability, like versions of certain nutrients, just to show on the label. And some protein powders don't add any. Cause people aren't looking for vitamins and minerals and take a protein powder. Like, I don't care. If I take a protein, I just want the protein. - Yeah. - So with the meat stick, with the paleovalent meat stick, it comes along with it. - Yeah. - It's just closer to a whole food. And I, you know, it is, it's super cool. - I still believe, you know-- - I know you've experimented with this. - Yeah, I still believe we're so arrogant with our science sometimes, you know, that we know everything, you know? And there's studies to show. If you do this, a lot of things are very, very similar compared, so we just make this leap of it. It's exactly the same. It's like, I just don't believe that. I don't believe that if all things are controlled, carbohydrates, fats, calories, and you take it one of them in a process protein bar versus something that you measured out to be the just the right amount of rice, you know, vegetables and chicken. And it's the same. It's not the, something else is not the same. - You know what's crazy about what you're saying? We lie to ourselves with our arrogance. Put protein powder on the table and put some food on the table. Are they the same? No. Obviously they're not the same thing. But they have the same stuff and that's not the same though. - I know. It's wild. - And we do these studies where we measure like certain important markers, protein synthesis and like total calories and what it like, they're magenta, like there's some things that we, and then we, and those things are really important when it comes to fat loss or belly muscle. And so we just jump to this like, they're the same. And it's like, they're not. - No, we need to get the experience also. Like, do they feel like they're the same? - Sure. - They're like, you know what, you're not even using it the same way. - And then also behaviorally, which we always thought, like that's clear to me, like, I mean, 'cause you can argue the science part that I can't beat you on to figure out 'cause I don't know what else is going on in the gut that I can't prove that so many, so we, again, also act like we know everything about which we know very little about. I mean, the gut, the ocean and the universe are like three of the most complex things that we act as if we know everything about. Yeah, we've really explored like a-- - And other fast discoveries every day. - Yeah, we discovered this new thing. - We thought that too. - But we know everything about it. It's like, man, it's clear that they affect you differently. And I know for sure they affect you differently, behaviorally, because, you know, I eat a protein bar and 15 minutes later, I want another one or I'm craving something where I eat an egg, the whole boiled egg or something like that. - It's a different experience. - And I mean, even the fermenting process that they used to make this is more friendly for the gut for me. So I'm sure, yeah, that plays a factor. - It is. I want to ask you guys, 'cause we had to see each other for a while, 'cause we're on vacation stuff. When I ask you guys about your father's day, 'cause we didn't see each other's after father's day, did we? - No. - No, we did that and then we all went on vacation. - Oh, my was all weird, 'cause it was before. So I did like the weekend before. - Oh, did you? - Yeah, because we were all split up, you know, the next weekend everybody's gone off. - I gotta tell you guys about one of the presents that my, my five-year-old gave me. - You know, really? - Yeah. - So Jessica took him to store the kids and had them pick whatever they wanted to get me, which I think is so fun. - Yeah, yeah. - You know what I said, coffee? - What? - A trophy. - What? (laughing) - It was a plastic trophy. - Did you say something? - Like a target? - Oh, what do you say? - It's like a blank trophy. - Yeah, what do you say? - You're supposed to write on it, you know? - Yeah, he says it was for. - He just number one dad. - Yeah, he just like, he just like, you're the best. You know, he gave me a trophy. I'm like, this is the coolest gift I think I've ever gotten. You know, trophy sitting on my desk that my son gave me. - Yes, sir. - For Father's Day. Is that so awesome? - Great, sir. - And he thought to give his dad a trophy. - So he died. - Those are those things that you got to make sure you put away and you remember. - Oh yeah, dude. - You can't keep that stuff, you know what I'm saying? Like that's a, I actually don't know what we did for Father's Day. - Yeah, would you get for Father's Day? - I don't, my wife's gonna roast me if I did and I didn't. I can't think of what-- - She has a thought out, Jessica. - I knew she'd do that. (laughing) - I was like, oh shit, this is not gonna go well right now. - My son's school's really good. I mean, they always have him create something and he created a drawing of what he wanted to be. If you ask someone he wants to be, it was to be a Father. That's what he says. - Oh, wow. And so he drew this picture of him as a Father and then also running mind pump. Well, it's just so he did. - He said that? - Yeah, so my son wants to work at my pump. - Yeah, yeah, so I hope that stays. You know what I'm saying? I hope that continues on. I always tell Katrina too, like I tell you what, that's why I don't trip about the sports thing 'cause I know that's like a soft spot for me. I want him to want to really be into that and it's just not as jam. But if he likes business as much or more than sports, like I'll be as excited or more excited. - Probably more excited. - I think I would be more excited. So I'm just like, then there's still a lot of hope for that 'cause I feel like he's interested in any zindollet stuff. So, but yeah, I don't know what day, 'cause that was right before we left on vacation. - Right, and so I don't know what we did. I know Justin had to celebrate his father's day like a week early. - Yeah, I did that. I went to Carmel, we'd hike it and stuff and then had to hit up the cheese shop. So I ended up finally. - You were talking about that place. - Dude, it's like my jam. - It's amazing. - I wish there was more of them, like literally. - There's nothing like that. - There's nothing like that place. - Yeah, I tell everybody. - Everybody in Europe, in Europe you find places like that. - Yeah, it's totally European. - Does European have stuff? - I mean, I know in Italy. - So this is the place that Justin is talking about has cheese from all over the world. Every kind of cheese you can think of all over the world and then they have all these wines and then the guy behind the counter pairs them. - Oh yeah. - Well, and too he gets your palate for like what types of you know, hard soft, you know, the cheeses are like, you know, what kind of like, whatever direction you get to try them all first and so I brought the kids that never been there and so they were kind of tripping out 'cause there was just so many options, you know, and you're like trying out and they're doing the truffle this with, it's like, did you combos of some of them? And so anyway, yeah, we're in there a really long time. - Do you like like blue cheeses? - Strong blue cheeses? - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Love 'em. - Yeah. - Not all the people do. - You know, some people are like, associate the whole mold thing and all that. - It's in the strong. - And some of the stinky ones, you know, you're kind of like, yikes. - I haven't found a stinky cheese that I didn't like. - I like the really strong cheeses. - It has to go with something for me. I don't, I think. - Well, you gotta put it on a cracker. - Yeah, so you gotta put it with something. - There's a cheese. - I wanna say it's in a time cheese. - The maggot one. - Yep. - They leave the maggots in there. - Yeah, yeah. - And like, they flick 'em off before they give you the cheese. - It's not mimmolet, is it? - I don't know. - It knows what I would not have that. - That's one cheese I would have. - That's what I see. - I see, I see. - That's one of my favorites. - But that place that Justin's talking about, did you guys stay at a hotel too or no? - Yeah, that's what we did. - We did a drive. - We did a drive. - Katrina and I did a drive and did our spot like that's kind of our thing. We'll go take off for the day and do a nice, do a nice job. - Deep milk cheese for being infested with live maggots, which ferment the cheese, given you a very soft green tea. - Yeah, me. - Pungent smell, it's probably delicious. - It's funny though, it's like, you gotta be the first one to try it. There's like, like maggots on there, you're like, oh, it's delicious. - I don't think you need the maggots. I think they get the maggots off before they give it to you. - I would think so. - They look really tiny though, like you could easily miss some of them. - Oh. (laughs) - It's like, I'm not down. - And it blends in with the cheese pretty good. I'm like, look at that. Look at how they look. - I think some of you would not miss some of those. I wouldn't even trust someone, be like, oh yeah, we cleaned them all off. Oh, sure you did, buddy. - Yeah. - Sure they're high in protein. - Yeah, Doug, what did you do for your. - Did you do anything for that first? - Well, you see, Father's Day was almost, as same day as my birthday this year. And so they got combined. - Oh, I'm so happy. - So I ended up having dinner with Brianna and she was gonna pay for dinner, but I chose an expensive Japanese restaurant. (laughs) I ended up paying for it. (laughs) - Do you have saved, I'm sure you do. You're such a sentimental guy. I bet you have a bunch of Father's Day cards and stuff you save. - Yeah, I save all that stuff. I am very sentimental, actually. - Yeah. - That's so great. - Do you plan to do anything with it, or do you just keep it like. - I keep that. I mean, I have a lot of video and stuff like that. That's the things I do more with photos and video. But the cards, you know, just everyone's like, well, you run into them, you pulse something out and it's like, oh, I remember that. - Yeah, Katrina saves all hers. - Yeah, I'm kind of a pack rat that way, which is not very positive because, generally speaking, you may look at it once every 10 years. But when you do see it, it does something for you. - It does, you bring it up, especially when your kids grow up. - Well, I think the key is to make something out of it. That's like a book or something like that because what happens is it ends up turning it into, 'cause Katrina does this. And she keeps all of it and that drives me crazy. And I'm just like, do you know who you're good at for her? - What. - At some point? What? - It would be for you to organize it. Like maybe like when you're not at home. - Oh yeah, no, no, you're right. No, that's, I told you guys, when the first five years we were together, I made books of our first five years. So that was me who did the photos and then I put together. So we have a chronological order of these photo books of our first five years together, haven't done it since then, but I'm sure she would love that with that. - You know, we're just gonna organize for us, 'cause we're up at Yellowstone. - Yeah. - And we went up there with her mom and her brother and her sister along the kids and all that. She organized a day with a photographer. So we drove not to Yellowstone, but kind of like almost like off the grid a little bit, 'cause there was a spot and this photographer met us out there and I can't wait to see how the photos turned out. 'Cause it was like the background was incredible with the mountains, we were like in this meadow. - Yeah, cool. - Yeah, and we were just, we were like, dusk. So, I gotta tell you this, you know what I gotta tell you guys. So I rented a, I had, because we had so many people, I had to rent a minivan and I get to drove it. - Minivan's a pretty major. - You chance something, man. - Probably be trying to sell something. - Listen, the amount of people and the cargo, and then I went off road with that thing. 'Cause she took us off road, and had a rain the day before and I was a little bit like, "Are we gonna make it?" Let me tell you, bro. - I just, I'm just, I'm just, I just rewashed. - I was going off road with that. - I just rewashed the other time. - I was trying to sell it on minivan. - You guys remember John Travolta and Get Shorty? I just rewashed. - Oh, that's a great movie. - Great movie. I just rewashed it. - What? - Oh, what a great film. I just rewashed it the other day and there's a scene where he's, he's like a debt collector, right? Whatever, like muscle guy or whatever. And he's getting off his plane to get his rented car that he had ordered. I think he had ordered like a nice Cadillac, or like that, and he pulls up and it's like a minivan. It looks at the ladies like, "What is this?" She's like, "It's the Cadillac of minivans." (laughing) So there's like a whole scene of him like driving around the minivan and then he's Danny DeVito. Danny DeVito is like, "Hey, is that that new "minivan?" He's like, "Yes, the Cadillac of minivans." - Can I take it for a spin? Yes, it's a, so for you remember that one commercial even tried to have like a Puma in the back of it? (groaning) This is the manliest minivan ever seen. - I love those old minivans. - Okay, so since you brought up Father's Day and stuff like that, and do you have in mind what a perfect Father's Day looks like for you? Like what, like is there, like did you want something in particular? - You're so easy, I bet you have nothing to say. - Yeah. - But I bet. (laughing) - I'm sure you're very specific. (laughing) - I'm sure you're going exactly. - Yeah, yeah. I feel like Justin and I will be a Doug my B2. I'm curious, I like what a like a good Father's Day kind of looks like. What does that look like for you? Do you know, do you have an idea? - For me? - Yeah, yeah. - Oh, I just want to feel, I just want to be around my kids. My kids and my wife and I want to feel. - There's not a thing that you want to do specifically with them. - There's not like a. - I just want to feel loved by them. I want to feel, I want them to hug me. I want to be around them. I want to have dinner with them. It would be awesome if everybody said something like, you know, about their dad or told some story. That'd be crazy. - Yeah. - Which is, I want to be around, I just want to be around my kids. - Did you see that the viral memes of the like, the Mother's Day versus the Father's Day? - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - The Mother's Day, it's like, - It's like, you're like, we margaritas, girls, days. Like a party, some of that, the dad's barbecuing. - On Father's Day. - On Father's Day. - Yeah, that's a lot of stuff. - Yeah. - Yeah, what about you, Juts? Do you think, that's a perfect father? - Yeah, I'm like, I love going on like, nature hikes and stuff with the kids and like, getting away from the house and tech. I don't know. I like when everybody's like on the same page, we're all doing one thing together and it's like, something active. And then obviously like, for me, the perfect scenario would be for me to like, you know, do that and then I like go and get a massage or something like just, you know, relax and chill and then. - Oh, you are a massage guy for that. - I'm totally a massage. - I know you did that for your ears and I actually, I heard about it and I was just like, I wonder if that was like Justin's idea. - You think I'm touching your feet or you know, no feet guy. - I would have, I actually totally told that that was not your thing. That's hilarious. - Yeah, no, I like it. - I was so wrong. - Yeah, that's the thing. Dude, I'm so wound up all the time. That's like a one, I kind of do it more like on plan. If it's like a vacation or something, like I want it at least get one day like that where I'm just like, you know, you work all the knots out and then I can just like decompress. - Yeah. - But it's really like decompressing something in a better mood. Come back, hang out with me. Because I'm like, I'm really tense all the time and like always like trying to, you know, do stuff. - I don't know. - I totally did not call that at all. Because I knew you did that and I was totally talking about you on that day and I was just like, I wonder if that was Justin's idea. - Courtney thought I would love a missile. - Yeah. - So I'm gonna get him a missile. - I'm not a missile. - Or be like a concert, it would be right. - I think you're not a missile. - No, and I always have bad experiences. You guys got my text yesterday? - Oh yeah, you've got your file in the sawdust I have? - Yeah, you definitely don't know how to pick a good missile. - Well, so here's a deal. - So here's a deal. - Get the mall missus. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - You can't go to a mall missus. I just like, no, I'm not a big missus. - I've had good missages also. It doesn't do a lot for me. It's not a huge thing. And that's okay. - You know what I say to that? I say that you're a person who says, I feel good. I already feel great. But you don't know what great feels like. And until you feel great, you don't realize what you were missing. Because there is absolutely levels to missage. And I have had the whole gamut in spectrum, being married to one. So I know I've had hundreds of missages. And everything in between. And there is a very clear difference between horrible, okay, good, and holy shit like that. - So I've had lots of missages and I've had some that were horrible. I've had some that were good. I just fall asleep. That's all that happens to me. I just fall asleep with the good ones. So I'm like, I can do that by myself. - That's pretty good. If a massage puts you to sleep and you feel relaxed and. - And I know the benefit of a correctional massage, I think, is super valuable. But yesterday, Jessica and I had some time without the kids. They were at my parents house. And she goes to this place in the mall. It's one of those Chinese massage places. You know, we were like 20 bucks. - Yeah, 20 bucks, whatever. - Which is so funny how they figured out around the laws. - Yes. - And they know her by name. She goes there every single week. It's like her thing. She loves it. And the massage reads her Bible, does her whole thing. So I'm like, let's go do that. So she gets excited because she loves it. So I go over there and I don't like foot massages because I'm way too ticklish. Like you touch my feet. - I'll kick you. - I have a scar on the bottom of my mind. - Oh, that's right. - Yeah, it doesn't feel right. - No, I don't like that. So I'm like, I'll lay on my stomach. You can work on my back. That's totally fine. And I get this dude who big Chinese dude. Like big old potato head guy. Like, big dude. And he's like, I'll work on you. Apparently speaks English. I'm like, cool. It was the most violent massage I've ever had my life. No, no, it was violent. - It was violent, budding your butt. - No, no, listen, listen. It's not just that, Doug. He wasn't just working on me. There were times when he's like working on my hands. I'm laying flat and he's like, and then he punched my hands a couple times. And I'm like, my face is down and I'm laughing. So what is he punching my hands? Or he'd hit my back, you know? But like, he's trying to like fight me. Like, what's going on here? - It's like over-compensating. - It was just too violent. - After we were done, I looked to my wife like, "Yeah, that was laughing halfway through that." - That was too much. - Well, you Doug. - Me, just quality time with Brianna mainly. And massage sounds great though. Next year, I'm gonna request that. - Totally shocked me with Justin. Totally shocked me. I would not have guessed you as like, I'm gonna guess you. - I'm not like a freebie flyer, but I love it. - I'm gonna guess you want presents. - No, I actually know. I'm a terrible gift receiver. You should know that. - You know that. - No, if it's expensive. - No, even my wife fails at that. - So you're a really expensive president. She hates that. You know the last really expensive present I have is, I've never used a sit in my closet. I gotta return it. I haven't returned it. Like I just-- - Oh really? - Yeah, I'm really difficult to purchase for it. I know that and I'm a terrible gift receiver. So I actually don't like receiving gifts. Father's Day for me is like the perfect day looks like breakfast and coffee. Like coffee met to me before I get out of my bed. Like that's a big one. - Yeah, yeah. I mean that's when Katrina does that for me on the weekends a lot or like for Father's Day for sure. Like getting handed a cup of coffee before I even set up out of bed is like, ah yeah, that's super, super nice. And then I spend some time with my son and he normally participates in making breakfast for me with Katrina, which is always cute. We get to do that for a little bit. - That's fun. - And then my house being cleaned for me for the day before I have to leave the house. So I know it's supposed like Mother's Day. - Supposed to like spotless. And then I wanna drive. And then I wanna, and then with my wife, I like to go drive somewhere where we land at a place that we'd like to eat and go eat some fancy restaurant and have some drinks and then drive back. And then actually have the, so where I might be different where I think a lot of a lot of dads want to spend the time with their kid. I spend a lot of time with my kid. So actually that's a day where I'm like, I like to see him in the morning and I like to do that with him in the morning. But then I actually like this is, we normally have her mom take him or somebody and then that's me and Katrina. And so I actually like a night alone with her and day like that. And to come home with the house, spotless, had spent the time with my son, started it with coffee, a great drive to a great restaurant with good drinks and then come back to our house. - Nice. - That's like, yeah, yeah, I don't, the giftings not like a. - That's nice. - Yeah, yeah. - I'm not a big gift guy either, but I like sentimental, like, you know, the ones that make you feel. - I love to give gifts. - Me too. - So for Mother's Day, I love to surprise Katrina with gifts and I do get, I love to buy gifts, but I'm not, I'm horrible receiving them. - So for the same. - If one of us was to like show you love, what would we do? - You guys can buy me a gift. - Okay, yeah, 'cause you guys can afford the gifts. - I'm saying you get so excited. (laughing) You're like, this is coming out of my gift. - I like this. (laughing) - Yeah. - Okay. - Yeah, yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah, I see, you know what I'm saying, if I buy a picture of money, my wife might be a watch, I'm like, I bought that one. - I would have bought a better one. - Yeah, I would have bought that. - I'm gonna spend the kind of money I would about this model. But you know what I'm saying? Since it was my, but you guys can buy me that. You would be like, yeah, yeah. - Yeah, I mean, pretty pumped. (laughing) - That's true, huh? - Even if you missed a little bit. - That's true, if she buys you a gift, I'm gonna buy that. - Yeah. - That's a big gift. - Yeah. - It's, hey, it's such a bad, a video that goes, you know, oh my God, you spent that much money. And it's like, if I was gonna spend that much money, I probably would have done this thing where if it's coming from you guys, it's free. - It's free gift. - Yeah, and it's nice. It's like, okay, that's cool. I like that, yeah. So maybe, did you guys, I'll change the subject. Do you guys see the big skin cancer observational study that people are talking about on social media? Did you guys see this? - No. - All right. So I'm gonna pull it up because it's flying all over social media. It was actually the study itself, it was an observational analysis from the UK Biobank cohort. So this was published in Cancer Epidemiology, biomarkers and prevention. And it had over 440,000 people with controls and they found, and so they found thousands of skin cancer cases and they tried to make some associations. Here's what they found. Frequent sunscreen users showed higher observed rates of skin cancers compared to people who didn't use it very often. Even after they made adjustments for factors like age, sex, skin type, tannin ability, sunburn history, sunlamp use and time spent outdoors. So actually, even though it's observational, they did make some corrections for certain things. And here's what they found. The associations included up to 292% higher risk of invasive melanoma, a 140% higher risk of basal cell carcinoma and 126% higher rate of squamous cell carcinoma. And there was a dose response pattern, meaning more frequent sunscreen use was linked to higher cancer skin cancer risks. - That's crazy. - That does not look good. I'm assuming they're using like chemical bases. - These are chemical bases. - Right, right. So for using things that are non that you're correct. - Correct, okay. - These, the vast majority of sunscreen users use the more popular sunscreens that contain these kind of chemicals that will absorb and scatter UV rays. And those have hormone like effects in the body. And studies consistently show that the amount of those chemicals that they can find in your blood are far higher than what our even FDA would say would be safe. - Now is there any correlation between when you use all natural stuff or nothing at all, you also have to manage your time that you're being exposed to the sun because you're, or is that being controlled in this situation? - These are the factors they adjusted for again. Age, sex, skin type. So this was one that I would have thought out the gains. Like, well, okay, well, maybe people who are dark don't use a lot of sunscreen. They control for that. Tanding ability. So sunburned history, sun lamp use, and then time spent outdoors. So it's not a perfectly controlled, placebo controlled study, which I don't know how you'd be able to do that with long, long, long, it's really hard to do that. But so many people in there, over 400,000 people, and you had higher rates, and it was dose response connected. So the more sunscreen is pretty concerning. Very concerning, dude. - Man. - Very concerning. So, you know, these, I know sunburns aren't good for you. And the chemical based sunscreens will reduce. Have you ever seen the sunburns? - Or had been created. - But, but, is it, are those chemical causing cancer? - I mean, yeah, it was like, you know, somebody that had a frequent, like really bad sunburns or like to the point where it like had blisters and like, with that, you know, over time, you know, how that affected the skin. But, I mean, it sounds like the chemical exposure, like, continues. - What does state by state look like for, for, for, for, for, scene cancer? - Yeah. - You would expect skin cancer rates to be higher in sunnier states. - Right, California, Florida. - I bet you they're lower. - That's why I want to say. - But, I could be, I could be wrong. - That's why I'm curious. - I'm curious. - Which states, which states in the US have the highest skin cancer rates, dog? That's what I would look at. - I bet you they're, - And we need, I mean, - We need to know per capita not by person, because obviously, Florida and California are huge. - But it would be rate, it would be skin cancer rates, which would be, - Okay. - Which would be interesting. That's why I told you guys it. - Utah Vermont, Iowa, Minnesota, Idaho. - Look at that. - Wow. - Look at that. - Utah Vermont, Iowa, Minnesota, and Idaho. The highest incidence rates. - Wow. - And now, they're higher elevations. - Yeah, that could be part of it. - They're outdoors a lot, could be part of it. - But people in Florida, California, Hawaii, like, you guys are outside a lot too. - That even, - That even, - Also more fair skinned residents in those states. - Okay. - There you go. - I mean, true. I wonder if they control for that. What we would see. Scroll down more, Doug, 'cause there's a higher. - That's fascinating to me. - Okay. - Would you, - I guarantee you guys wouldn't have guessed any of those states. - No. - No, no, dude. - Put those on the list. - That is wild. That's crazy. - And it is per capita. So this is controlled for you. - Yep. - So, here's the thing, like, 'cause we've treated the sun like it's like this really dangerous thing, which is crazy. - Crazy. - I think you definitely don't want to go and burn yourself, but I think it's a good idea to get your body condition exposure. - To the sun. - Small amounts. - Small amounts, get your body condition to the sun. You know, vitamin D, very good for you. Also anti-cancer, I wish I say if you have low vitamin D, cancer rates go up. And then if you're gonna use sunscreen, use the mineral ones. - Yeah. - Use the mineral ones. - We can. - You know, the altitude does play a factor. - It's good. - It's so wild, I can tell, so I just came back right from Nevada. Look up countries with the highest-can cancer rates. - And I'm up in the mountains and, like, Reno area, and met laying out, and so I, and you guys know the summer, I've been laying out a lot at our own pool, like a ton. We've been out, I've been around the pool. And it is, I can feel a difference in less than an hour's time of laying out around the pool up in Reno versus hours around my pants. It is intense. And the temperature doesn't even have to be hotter. So it's not like, - Yeah, that's altitude. - Yeah, the difference of, - Polic. - Eight degrees at my house versus 80 degrees over in Reno, and an hour an hour of each and there, night and day difference. - You know it's crazy. - You can feel it. - I can feel it. - You know what I would like to see, Doug, maybe we wouldn't have this data. So there's one country in the world that had a national effort, like they funded this nationally to get everybody to our sunscreen. It was Australia. There was actually a-- - There. - Yes, they have high rates of skin cancer. I want to know if, did Australia's sunscreen efforts reduce skin cancer rates or did it increase? - Yeah, because they actually had this whole national campaign for decades where they were training and encouraged people. And so I wanna see, and then the other thing is, did it reduce skin cancer or increase other cancers? 'Cause sometimes what you see is a reduction in skin cancer, but then vitamin D, yeah, the echinoclonal slip of slip, slop, slap, that's what it was, sun smart program. It reduced skin cancer rates in younger generations. So it did in that case. I'd like to see if the other regular cancers went up though. - I'd also like to see how much. - Yeah, younger Australians born are estimated to be four times less likely to develop skin cancer rate older core. Evidence shows that Australians age 18 to 40 who use sunscreen regularly in childhood, reduced their risk by developing melanoma by 40%. Okay, I don't know, man, it's interesting to me. Here's the deal, I don't think sunscreen's bad. I think chemical sunscreens should be avoided. That's the position I would take. - Yeah, yeah, I don't think, I mean, your skin is a major organ. - Well, it's interesting because all the things that are reading right now though, they're just blanket saying sunscreen. They're not like saying natural or like that and it's reducing. So it almost seems like even chemical sunscreen is better than no sunscreen. - When I looked at this, when the study that I just read, seems to point in the other direction, that it's not good. And like I said, we see that there are, we know that there are like hormone-like effects from these chemicals. And they build up in the blood much higher than, then we think it's, well, I mean, it's been an interesting experiment for us and our family with the Sastas Antthen supplement. And it's like, still get like a little bit of a burn, but it doesn't last and it pretty much recovers like a lot faster than it would say, you know, without it. So I don't know, I'm very curious to see if this is like, the answer instead of sunscreen anymore. - Interesting. By the way, it says there that the incidence of melanoma initially rose alongside sunscreen adoption. And then, you know, I want to look a little deeper into that and to see what effects were, you know, because I've read other studies that have connected people avoiding the sun to higher rates of other types of cancers versus people who actually seek out going out into the sun. - Yeah. - So, I don't know, interesting. Anyway, I got to tell you guys yesterday I was doing social media, I was, you know, you guys know I was out there doing social media clips stuff. - Oh, you did. - One of the clips I was doing was with the Chris Power, which by the way, our social media team has been just crushing. You know, it's funny to see comments underneath people saying social media team is kicking butt. - Yeah. - Really really cool. So anyway, I was doing it like this thing with Chris Power, where Danny was having me say, you know, up to 28 grams of protein per bag and then I had to do it with different emotions, excited, angry, sarcastic, side to do like these different type of motions. But in between, you know, I eat one of the crisper. Those things are so addictive. - I know. (laughing) - Oh, I have to have those bigger bags. I was like, sit like that. - I mean, they are, but I saw, I mean, I had one last yesterday. - Yeah, they're like, it's like, you might as well eat potato chips or something. - I had them on my drive. I mean, I have them all Saturday day, but I had them last night on my drive home from here. And I'm actually so impressed by how satisfying a bag taste. - So when you're done because of the protein? - Yes. I can't think of a, you remember, they come in those sides, you remember, we just went up to Truckee and my friends' families bought the Costco size variety pack of Cheetos, Doritos, all the, you know, you ain't in one bag of that. - You don't. - No way. - You don't, not even the kids. - No way. - I had to limit the kids. I see their kids eating them. I'm like, hey, that's already two bags. I just saw you eat back to the bag. You better ask your mom and dad if you're okay. Like, I mean, you could just crush those things. - Totally. - I have one little bag of those, Chris Power. - And I am fine. - I do not have this sensation of like, I need another one. - But they are so delicious. - No, they are. They're fantastic and I enjoy it. But I don't think I've ever had a small bag of something like that and feel satisfied after having it. And the know that I just took a, took in a 28 gram protein snack is, yeah, it's cool. - They hit the formula because they're crushing it. I'm seeing them in all kinds of big retailers. - They're Costco. - And now I knew it. When we first were introduced to them and I tried it, oh, they're gonna, if you can make something that's high protein taste really good, like not like it has high protein because a lot of high protein foods, you could taste it if you have protein. If you can make something palatable, that's high protein, you're gonna make a lot of money. And because people are just gonna crush it. - Well, especially a salty carbs snack. - Yeah. - That's traditionally a salty carbs snack. - It doesn't taste far off from the real thing. - That's the other thing too is you'll see some of these products and they'll be high protein. And then it's just like, - That's what I mean, you could taste those proteins. - You're just like, yeah, this is not good. - No, it tastes like pretzels with, you know, not your cheese on them. - Yeah. - Pretzels with flaming, yeah. - Yeah, yeah. - No, they did a good job. - They absolutely crushed it. - Look, if you've been listening to Mind Pump for any longer than like one episode, you know how important we take gut health. Gut health is very important. It controls your happiness, anxiety, can contribute to depression if it's off, inflammation, good gut health makes you recover faster, build more muscle and burn more body fat. Well, one of the best products we've ever found that helps contribute to good gut health is seed. So seed has a probiotic. It's the world's best probiotic. These are leading scientists that work on this. The best researchers, it is the leading probiotic in the world when it comes to the science. They have a patent pending capsule that delivers live bacteria, healthy bacteria to the parts of your body that need it. Other probiotics don't have this. They deliver bacteria to your gut, your body destroys it and you don't get a lot of the benefits. You gotta get with seed, try 'em out. Go to seed.com/mindpump. Use the code 25 Mind Pump, get 25% off, back to the show. (whooshing) - First question is from Fit Mechanic King. I do CrossFit four to five times per week for fun and as a sport. I love the community and the competitions. I want to build strength outside CrossFit classes. What program would you recommend? I'm considering Maps 15 Strong or Maps 15 Performance. - Nothing. (laughing) - I'm talking about you. - I'm talking about it. - Yeah, listen, if you're gonna do CrossFit four to five times a week and you wanna add something to it, don't. - Good recipe, get weaker. - Yeah, you're not gonna, there's nothing we could add that'll make you stronger. But there is something we could do that'll make you stronger. Do CrossFit twice a week, follow Maps 15 Performance, Maps 15, Maps 15 Power Left and you will get stronger. - Yeah. - But it ain't gonna happen doing this much exercise, this much crossfit. - Just do Maps Performance and ditch CrossFit. - I wanna see this person's profile. So who gets his Fit Mechanic King? Is this guy also a full-time mechanic? - Yeah, I don't know. - Well, he's the King. - So he's probably the problem. - He is. - I look, I tell you what, I mean, talk a lot, or I tell you what, if you're doing CrossFit because, and he said the right things, it's for fun, sport, love the community, awesome. - Yeah, that's what everybody says, bro, but then deep down they wanna build muscle or they wanna look better. - I was just gonna say, but you also said you wanna build strength. It ain't gonna happen doing all that. - No. - So you gotta pick, you have to pick which one you're gonna do. It's a terrible recipe what you're already doing. It's not the recipe to get stronger and to get fitter and to look better. It's like if you want that, then, and you could still listen, doing CrossFit two times a week is still fun. - It's awesome. - It's some fun doing it. - You know what the problem is? - Or join it, 'cause I do know this. CrossFit has evolved since Mind Pump has been shitting on it for 10 years. And it has turned into, there's a lot of good coaches that have modified it or allow people to do their own thing, which it's not really CrossFit anymore. - Yeah, it's not really. - You know, it's becoming more like personal training. - Yeah, no, it's more like functional. - And so if you like showing up to the CrossFit gym with your community and you can say, "Hey, two times a week I'm gonna enjoy the class with everybody." And then the other three times a week, I'm gonna do Mass 15. You could totally do that. - I'll say this right now. At CrossFit programming, has generally, and a lot of gyms gotten better, but it's still CrossFit. It's still wads, it's still combining exercises. It's still, it's kinda-- - Move you around a lot. - High intensity approach. I get the community aspect. This is what gyms are crap at in CrossFit's gradat. They did a great job. And I'm gonna, I'm gonna tell you this right now, and this is just a big epiphany for me in more recent years. Now I'm a fanatic. So in other words, I'm the rare person who goes to the gym, can do it by myself and enjoy it. But for most people, community, one of the strongest correlates to consistency, if someone's gonna stay consistent for the rest of their life with fitness, one of the strongest correlates is community. It just is, it's a fact. Now I didn't get that before because I'm a fanatic. I do it no matter what. But it's so it's very important. So I like that part of it. But CrossFit is, you're doing CrossFit. And it's not the best way to accomplish aesthetic goals or strength goals. You'll get good at CrossFit. And I'll tell you this much right now. This is a big problem. People and people do this with all sports. They look at the top competitors, and they say, well, that's how I need to train to be good at this particular sport. Like, if you wanna be, you wanna build muscle, don't train like a pro bodybuilder. You wanna be great at CrossFit. Don't train like the CrossFit. competitors like the top ones, they're doing way more than you can tolerate. The average person would get better at CrossFit faster if they did it like twice a week. Well, not as the mentality is for all. If you look at it as a sport, then you're going to treat differently. So knowing that, how often do you compete in a sport? You're going to be limited in the amount of times you compete. Therefore, the training should supplement that and build you up towards it. The problem with me is always they've merged the two together and it doesn't work. It's not just that. This person is also a fitness coach or trainer. A lot of times what happens to people that love fitness is you do what you can handle and tolerate. Therefore, you think it's okay. It's like, just because you can do CrossFit five times a week, doesn't make it optimal for results. Everybody in this room is living proof of this also. At one point in our careers, listen, there was a time when I tried to do it, I was like, I trained seven days a week, double days. And I could do it. I did it for a long time. And I was quote unquote fit. I just would have been way fitter doing a lot less, being doing it a lot smarter than the way it is. So it's like everything you're doing is way too much to garner the results that you want from it. You want to be strong. You want to be mobile. You want to be fit. You want to look good. You want all those things. Well, trained way different. But training four to five times a day or four or five times a week of CrossFit plus trying to do a maps program. If you did CrossFit twice a week and did a maps 15, one of our maps 15 programs, do that for 60 days. If you're listening to this, do this for 60 days. You'll get stronger at every single lift and you'll probably get better CrossFit. CrossFit. Yeah. That'll work. My question is from Brenda Partica at 63. Is there a limit to how much you can push your progressive overload training? I competed at age 58 and hit PRs. I never thought I'd be able to do. Now I train for health and physique, but feel overwhelmed not hitting PRs like I did four years ago. Great question. So you've obviously been training consistently that whole time and you were training consistently before age 58 because that's when you were hitting PRs. So here's a deal with getting stronger. It's one of the best things to chase for the first few years. It's the best thing to chase for the first few years. After that, chasing strength gives you diminishing returns and then eventually becomes a not worth the squeeze. It becomes too much of a risk factor for injury. So getting stronger is great. But at this point in your lifting career, what you want to do is you just want to get better at movement. You want to get better at movements that you're not good at. You want to work on mobility. You want to just continue to maintain where you're at. You can't possibly hit PRs five, 10, 15 years into your lifting career unless you start when you're 15 years old and you're obviously growing into your body. It's just not going to happen. And it's not really a good thing to continue chasing because you will hurt yourself. I'm going to put a little twist on that. Yes, you can hit PRs, but the way that you suggested it, do something you don't do. Have you ever got really good at Turkish get ups? Go start those and watch how weak you are when you first start doing them and watch use PR doing it after you've been doing it for two months. Have you ever got good at windmills? Go get really good at windmills and watch what happens. You're going to hit PRs in that. When people say things like PRs, they automatically default to the bench squat deadlift overhead press, which they've maxed out by. Which they've trained for four years, five years, eight years, and they've reached these epic numbers that they'd never thought that maybe they could get. And now they're no longer seeing those. Maybe they even seem a little bit of regression. And now it discourages them because they're not seeing PRs anymore. Well, like if you want to see PRs, go practice a lift that you've never done or rarely ever do and go get good at it. And some of the ones that just get go do a certain. Are you unconventional? Learn how to do a circus press. Learn to do farmer carries. These are all great movements. They all have great movements that have great carryover and benefit to your overall health, physique and strength. And you can still get that thrill of watching yourself get stronger doing it. But if you're still focused on the four main lifts that we talk about that are so great for you and still trying to hit PRs, the ROI on that at this point in your life is just not there. Next question is from my best friend Jack, how about a guide on how to build a chest when both shoulders have chronic pain? Okay. So a lot of this determines on what's causing the issue with your shoulder stability. But I would focus on shoulder mobility movements like handcuffs with rotation or wall circles or scapular circles. You can find these all in maps, prime pro. And now go light and slow with my chest exercises to make the light weight feel heavy. Okay. So in the meantime, you're doing your normal pressing movements. You're picking away that slight and your goal is to make it feel heavy through slowing the movement down, squeezing and just making it feel more difficult. But the focus is going to be on shoulder mobility. So the key to this is it's not what chest exercises you do to build a chest through this. It's what you need to do to fix the chronic pain in the shoulders. chronic pain is movement pattern issues. It's weakness and instability in joints. That's what that is. It's unless you had some acute injury where your shoulder was torn or you had some rotator cuff. It's something major has happened, which is not most people. Most people have like this sharp pain in the front of their shoulder or they have this clicking noise that they notice or they go to lift over their head and they feel grinding of the, like that's that chronic pain. That's a movement issue and that can be corrected and fixed by putting some effort towards fixing the shoulders. You fix the shoulders, you build mobility, stability and strength in the shoulders and the chest will come up. You will just get stronger in all your chest. Most of the time to your point, it's the rotation because it's not, you have to be very intentional to focus on introducing that into your everyday training or just like your movement in general. You have to be focusing on where do I add rotation? Where do I, where do I implement this? That way now, this isn't something that's an instability. My body will recognize this. It will add more stability to the joint, which then helps you get through the pain signal and then it helps you actually produce more force. A lot of the times, you start with the mobility, start with your limitations and range of motion. You find out what those limitations are. You work through that, you regain the stability, then we just gradually load that. It's really amazing when you look at the shoulder joint, not to get too technical, but I don't know if this is an accurate statement, but I think it is. It's one of the, or if not the most complex joint, it is. In the body? It's floating. It's very complex and it has incredible mobility. It's got incredible mobility, rotation, it's designed or it evolved, whatever you believe, to be able to throw things with accuracy, to be able to hang, to do incredible things. But that means it needs to remain balanced and stable with strength that supports all that movement. And yet there, your shoulders are capable of incredible things. And oftentimes this pain comes from, I'm training the same kind of movement over and over again, and not working on those other areas. So that produces this kind of like huge imbalance of strength, which is where the instability comes. Well, to your point, the shoulder is so complex. Can do so many amazing things like throw, like hang, like do a move of this full range. If you stop doing it as we age, your body prunes the ability to do it. Now that doesn't mean you can't get it back. You can absolutely get it back. And to answer the guide for that, that is Prime Pro. That is why we wrote that program. That program is designed to help people address every major joint in their body when they suffer from chronic pain or lack mobility and instability in those joints. And you just need to live in the shoulder and shoulder girdle area. Those are the movements that you do all the time. You do it every day. As many times a day you get most certainly, you always do it before you lift and lift on chest day. Next question is from the gut check. Are you guys willing to take on an eager and experienced, recently certified Nazum personal trainer? Look, that's what we look for. We don't hire trainers here. We make them. We make them. What we look for is character. What we're looking for are people who have the right passion, dedication, sense of purpose, who understand the culture of mind pump. So it helps that you listen to the show often and that you have our course because we coach you through the course. But you got to be willing, you got to be someone who's willing to go through it because it is a privilege to work here. Now why is it a privilege to work here? Well, number one, our trainers, we compensate them really well. We provide them with some of the best clients they'll ever get because it comes through the show. And they get some of the best training that I've ever seen ever. I'm jealous and envious of the training that our coaches get. I wish I had that kind of training. And it's just because we have access to such incredible resources because of the podcast. But I don't care how experienced you are. That's great. That's cool. But you're going to have the right attitude. You got to be the person like I'll talk about one of our top trainers more sell. So he's been with us. How long is Marcelo been with us? You're 18 by 18 months. Okay. You're in a half. He now runs he the sales training for our coaches. He's also a coach himself. The guy gets ravey Like his the reviews he gets are just raving Phenomenal results with his clients people getting great results love working with them He does such a phenomenal job a year and a half ago. He was a cop He had no experience. Do you know how you got a job here? He kept showing up He kept showing up here at mine pump and saying I want to work for you guys. I want to work in fitness And I think we probably saw him what three times before we gave him a shot was that it two or three times? Yeah Yeah, and he had the right attitude and now the guys incredible and those are the people we look for I mean I have a I have a hot take on this. I don't like experienced trainers What comes with that is ego and bad habits They have an ego. They think they better than what they they are Typically they have bad habits or way of doing just like if you were to ask at golf pro Would you rather take a blank slate somebody who's never swung a club and teach them how to swing a club great and be a pro Or would you rather have the guy who's been swinging a club like shit for five years and then try and get them to swing a club You'll take that person who's brand new all day long and you'll make them a better golfer I feel the same way about personal training. We've been doing this for so damn long I feel confident I can take a police officer who's not trained somebody and make them a bad ass trainer within six months To a year then I can take a four or five year trainer with five national surds and trained clients and thinks they know everything And thinks they are entitled to all this shit. So I prefer a trainer that is eager to learn that is listen to the podcast That is inexperience and is hungry that trainer ends up being a better coach trainer 100% and you know it was funny That's like that's an old martial arts quote. There's an old martial arts quote, which is like it's easier to teach a Beginner had to kick effectively than someone who's been kicking wrong for the 20 years So it's a hundred percent and you get you're 100% right Adam all the most successful coaches that I ever had working for me where these beginners that Learned and through the process and just became super super good. Yeah But here's a deal like you got to really show that you want to work here like so if you're listening you want to be a trainer here like You got to be willing to show you really want to work here. We're not going to come chase you down We got more applicants that we can handle You got to show it. There's a clip in the movie fight club that reminds me of this you guys remember that clip Where we're Tyler Durden just turns everybody away. Yeah, and they've got that house that like broken that beat down house Dude that shows up and He's like he wants to be in the club and he's like get out of here and he shuts the door and sprays them with water The guy just sits there for days just through the and finally he's like you can come in. Yeah, all right That's the kind of attitude you have to be resilient Did you see the clip I shared with you guys would have flopped that was oh? Yeah, when it first came out I didn't know that I know yeah It was a massive fail when it first turned into like it doesn't one of the greatest classics and cult following down the road But was a massive flop when it first hit I did not know that crazy. Yeah, but yeah, I mean we love we love trainers with a hiring trainers So if you want to where's our what what do people apply here is it MP? My plump jobs calm, but I'm gonna tell you right now if you don't have that attitude don't apply Yeah, I want to hire you. Yeah, why you in my place don't want you in the culture don't want you training I'd say the things I see the ones that are doing really well We've got quite a few coaches and trainers that are new coaches trans but I've been listening to the podcast for long I've listened a lot of yeah, you gotta be bottomed in the room. I mean we teach we teach coaching and philosophy on here If you've listened to us coach people answer these questions. I want air. I mean that education Like I said, I'll take that over the trainer who went out and got eight national certifications worked at some big box gym for six years and he's listening to 10 episodes and wants a job Then the trainer who's listened to most all the episodes But it's never coached anybody because what you've learned listening to us coach people and from our experience far more valuable Look if you like the show come find us on Instagram. It's mind put media Thank you for listening to mind pump if your goal is to build and shape your body dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance Check out our discounted RGB Superbundle at mind pump media.com The RGB Superbundle includes maps and a ballac Maps performance and maps aesthetic Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks feels and performs With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos The RGB Superbundle is like having Sal Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers But at a fraction of the price the RGB Superbundle has a full 30-day money back guarantee And you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at mind pump media.com If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on iTunes And by introducing mind pump to your friends and family We thank you for your support and until next time this is mind pump