How to Design Virtual Sessions People Remember ft. Gwyn Wansbrough | #ADAW Ep. 16

creating safety, challenging, limiting beliefs, assumptions, and opening new possibilities. That's kind of the backbone of, if you ever, there's large body of literature and practice around experiential learning, around transformative learning. And that's very much, it's an art design. Then I'll ask people to answer a prompt in the chat. Some people start with polls, some people start with, you know, other digital tools. I just like to start by putting a prompt question in the chat. Why are you based? That's a starter. But I like to use something that I call the power prompt. I give people a quick understanding of what they can expect. So here's our goal for the session, and here's what we're going to do. One, two, three. I think what I've learned the most from stand-up, you have 30 seconds to have them in, otherwise they're not going to listen to you, and then you're going to bump. Somebody do a lot of online sessions, and she said, I just try to improve one percent every session that I do. You're nodding at, you're smiling at me, but give me energy to keep interacting with the same level of energy. That's why I love your tips, because this is the type of techniques that you hear how you make sure that people are really engaged. As a team leader, as creative person, as a creator, it's got so many different applications. That's why I love it so much. Welcome to another day, another workshop. Today I'm excited to welcome Green Wednesdays, bro. Green is a virtual training expert and an online engagement specialist. She has been more than 1,000 hours on Zoom. She helps professionals and organizations design better online sessions like workshop, courses, webinars, and even that people actually wants to join. We have more than 20 years of experience. Green has trained over 2,000 coaches, consulted and facilitators. She has led sessions for platforms like Circle, Butter, Session Lab, and Streamer Live. And today we go to learn from her. We will talk about our secret framework of returning just another Zoom call into a meaningful, memorable, and high impact learning experience. Without further ado, let's welcome Win. Hello. - Man, it's so good to be here. Thanks so much for inviting me to the podcast. - My pleasure. It's, we already had a great chat. And I thought it was, it would be nice to share it with the audience. So here we are. - Here we are. - So Gwen, like next to this amazing presentation, like what would you add and share with the audience? - Well, it's, I mean, thank you for that introduction that encapsulates some of the things that I'm focused on right now, the whole world of virtual facilitation. But I would add that this is like all happened by accident because I did not, you know, when I set off to start my career, I never imagined that I would become someone who spends a big portion of their waking hours thinking into how can we make online virtual sessions more engaging and more meaningful, more connecting. So I had been, you know, I started out in my career wanting to do international work. So I studied to become, my big dream was to work for the UN at one point. I actually ended up working for the UN. And then decided that I, that wasn't really the career path that I had thought it was. So fast forward, I, about 20 years ago, I met an incredible man called Charlie Murphy and he was a facilitator. And I had been, you know, leading organizations and I was kind of more in the organizational management side of things. And he opened my eyes to this whole new, you know, world of facilitation. I didn't even know what a facilitator was at that time. I took a training with him and by serendipity many years later, we met and he was leading an organization that took this facilitation training to other parts of the world. And they were looking for somebody to, you know, to work with them to do this. So I started working for this organization. We ended up working in 15 countries, bringing the facilitation country, training to thousands of people. It was translated into different languages. And, and then just by the end of, that I worked with them for about 10 years, by the end of that 10 years, I was leading the organization, traveling a lot, decided I really wanted to switch gears, then COVID hit. So I, the part that I loved about the work was really the facilitation. And I had already, you know, set up some facilitation opportunities to do some workshops and some trainings. All of a sudden they were switched online. And I'm sure a lot of people who are listening can relate to that experience of doing in-person work and then all of a sudden having to figure out, you know, how to do it online. And I never really even thought that you could do the same kind of meaningful work in the online and the virtual space as you could in person. And then I led my first online experience and it was very tough. There were lots of tech glitches. I was totally out of my comfort zone, but it was in that first set online session that I had a major aha. I just figured, yeah, I just thought, if we can figure this out, if we can figure out how to make these live online sessions, really engaging the type of sessions that people really want to be in there and, you know, want to be in. We're gonna unlock a whole huge amount of human potential, you know, at scale. So the last five years, I've gone on a very deep dive into trying to figure out what are these like magic ingredients to create to designing and leading really engaging live online sessions. And along the way I started a newsletter, it's called The Quest. And that's where I share every week, you know, what I'm learning and that's now 220 editions of The Quest. I created courses and it's just been a fascinating, a fascinating deep dive. - That's impressive, what a journey. And what I like also in your stories that you, so you figure out that the only part that you're interested in is facilitation. You decide to go on your own and then the moment is like, okay, now it's COVID, no, Gwen, you need to figure it out. And what is great is that you saw this as an opportunity. And can you tell us like how your first online session happened? And like, if you, what was the main learning from that first one? - Many, it was the depths of lockdown in Spain. So I was living in Spain at the time. And what was supposed to be an in-person workshop, two-day workshop in Madrid with 60 young teachers turned into an hour and a half online session with people who were also in lockdown connecting in from all parts of Spain. And people were in, I would just say, like just in terms of like a general emotional state, very in a very dark place. You know, people had been locked down in their homes. They hadn't been able to connect with anyone in like in Spain as in many parts of the world, but in Spain for those first few weeks, it was, you couldn't even really leave your house. And, and people were feeling really lonely, really disconnected and really down. You know, I would say in a very, very dark place. - Okay. - So we get on this Zoom call and you know, it was a group of like younger, a younger audience. So they were technically savvy. We didn't have a lot of problems on the tech side of things. But they, you know, it was the general mood starting the session was really, you had people who really just didn't want to be there. You know, that's the sensation that I got. And so I realized as people were joining the call, it was very different than an in-person session. You know, an in-person session, you might meet a couple of people in the workshop space. You might start a conversation over the, you know, over the coffee table. There's energy in the room that you as a facilitator kind of pick up on and that the participants do as well. It sets the tone, it sets, it's signaling to people, things that their brains are scanning for, which are, you know, do I belong in this group? Is this worth my time? Can I trust, you know, the facilitator? And when people were dialing into that first Zoom call, I realized they had no information. We, there was zero connection and there was zero energy. And so as a facilitator, it was up to me to create those conditions. I had to really think about, and this was kind of on the spot, because a lot of this I didn't even know as I headed into my first online session. But I realized right away we've got the chat. The chat is our channel of communication. And so started to really work with the chat, put prompts in the chat and pick up on the chat, bring that, whatever was happening in the chat, bring that into, you know, the live session. And we did a few breakout, you know, breakout activities came back by the end of that session. I really still didn't, you know, I was still figuring out how to read the room because that's another thing that was so different. I was looking at the gallery view, trying to pick up whether people are smiling, whether they're not smiling, whether they're even still on camera. Yeah, like looking half of the black screens. Exactly, exactly. And by, I just remember the last activity that I did, the last thing I did, I dropped a prompt in the, in the chat, I said, just one word. How are you feeling at the end of the session? this session. That was something that you know we had done in person that I had learned from my facilitation mentors. I said let's just see how this works online. A moment of excruciating silence where I thought oh gosh you know maybe this has been a complete disaster and then all of a sudden a cascade of responses inspired, energized, connected and it literally brought goosebumps to my skin because I just thought wow you know we went really from a very dark place to a place where people are feeling that sense of of connection and energy and and and just group bonding. So that was my aha moment. That was what made me think hmm there's really something to explore here and and not led to to that deep exploration. Well when I was I was expecting a different answer like it was chaotic and it did figure out the tech back then I didn't know how to use the chat that you already like step ahead with this like I'm gonna use this as a channel to get information to red interaction. So what a great story especially since they were in this like as you said as I mean Belgium so I remember it was really like you cannot go out of your place so indeed people that were lonely at home you could see it when you were interacting with them so it was even like you had like a big a big social impact with with that workshop and I'm sure many many afterwards. So now you figure I guess like after the years like of doing this you you figure out like how to create a great engaging virtual experience if we come back to this recipe what would be the main ingredients. So that's a that's a question that has a lot of different parts to it. I would say just to back up one step what I realized and this is this is applicable to in person sessions as well but particularly for online sessions I see that there's kind of three main parts to to an online to any kind of experience but to an online let's just take online experiences and this comes from you know what I've learned since then about experience design and designing these kinds of like transformative online experiences and there's a first step which is creating safety. So it's really all of that work that you do up front to create the conditions where people feel like they can participate that they want to participate that they feel like they belong that they have eased into a group setting where they feel comfortable and confident about participating. So that's the first step is to to create safety then that sets you up really well for the next part of your session which is where you help your participants challenge their limiting beliefs. So I know that you used a word when we were speaking before this this recording like mindset you know really helping people to challenge their their assumptions and any kind of limiting beliefs like they could be there and then the third part of it is opening that is how you open new possibilities new ways of thinking new new attitudes and behaviors that people can then take into the world with them. So creating safety, challenging limiting beliefs and assumptions and opening new possibilities and that's kind of the backbone of if you ever there's there's a large kind of body of literature and practice around experiential learning around transformative learning and that's very much it's an arc kind of design. And so I took that and then went one step further it's like okay that's the kind of overview how can we get granular on how you can actually design a session using that kind of three phases of a group experience and I came up with something that I called the breakthrough arc and the breakthrough arc is based on some of the work that I had been exposed to in my training organization that came from the world of transformative learning and I broke it down into eight steps. So the the ingredients of that recipe are preparation as the first step. Okay. Well a warm welcome creating connection setting the context the core material and giving people an opportunity to reflect on the core material make a commitment to action and then you're closing and that follows again this arc and it's it's a it's an arc that you see also in story and storytelling and and it really works well in terms of designing these group experiences and I found it works extremely well for virtual experiences as well. All right and the first thing like I'm trying to like creating this like you the first part of the arc was green this welcoming space right this safe space I used the facetation word like creating this safe space like how can you do this like when you're virtually I mean like it's even more challenging than when you're in person like like how did you do how do you deal with that? So I there's a there's I have a very set kind of way and and it's it depends on who all of this depends on like you're you're the the way that you do it really depends on your purpose your audience so who is who who is your audience and this is what this is one thing where I think some people design kind of in a little bit of a void of their audience so they take these facilitation techniques to them and sometimes they just don't land because you know they're either too woo woo and the audience is really needs a lot more easing into things or they're not you know they're kind of too boring and the audience is actually looking for something a little bit more challenging so knowing your audience your purpose and and and what I call like the transformation that you want for your audience so sometimes I'll work with a group this group for example the first group I worked with the the online session that I mentioned I wanted to take them from feeling disconnected from each other to feeling inspired and bonded so those are the kinds of things that I talked about when I when I talked about transformation but knowing that so when you get to something like the warm welcome what I'll usually do is customize my zoom weight room and I'll put a personalized message you can either you even do a little video that starts to you know that welcomes people into the into the virtual space before they've even pressed join the meeting and it's a very small small little action but as you know like in facilitation oftentimes these small details that signal to people oh somebody's actually taking the time to write a little message okay this might be interesting and it just signals also maybe this might be a little different than our you know normal boring zoom calls then when people come into the session I usually have some music playing and I try to greet everyone who comes into the session by their name which is very easy on zoom because you have everybody's nail on the screen as they as they come so that also again I'm kind of looking to answer three questions that I know are on the minds of people as they join virtual sessions one is can I trust the facilitator so all of those little small details that you do by customizing the weight room by greeting people by their names by bringing your energy you know into the zoom call all signal something okay I can trust the facilitator then I'll ask people to answer a prompt in the chat some people start with polls some people start with um you know other digital tools I just like to start by putting a prompt question in the chat and usually what are you based like this problem that you see everywhere these time where you're based is that's okay you know that's that's a starter but I like to use something that I call the power prompt and the power prompt allows people to take their just share one step further from what's your name and where you're based so I might follow up for example with a question that says you know again this really depends on your purpose and your audience but I did a session the other day with a group of people who we're just kind of getting to know each other for the first time in a in a corporate mentorship program and so I just asked them you know what's one thing that's um brought a little joy to you this morning or what's one highlight of your day so far and that just gets people sharing just a little bit more information so that that answers the second question that's on people's mind do I belong here as you start seeing the answers and as other people start seeing the answers they answer that question oh is this my you know am I in the right place do people care about the same things that I do so people start sharing oh you know having breakfast with my daughter taking my pet for a walk whatever it might be but it all signals you know there's very common things that come up in a question like that that helps people answer so narrate a few of the responses again it's really And it's really just. amazing material that you can bring in. Oh, look at how many people look at how, like, look at where people are calling in from. And look at, you know, it looks like a lot of us have had a chance to connect with our families this morning already and this and that. And then I do one more thing in that kind of welcome secret sequence, which is to ask people to turn on their mics, turn on their cameras if they haven't done so already. And greet the group that we're in in the same way that they would greet a really good friend in the place where they live. So people turn on their mics and they say, hello, and it's all this like mumbo jumbo like, oh, you know, you can't really hear clearly what everyone is saying. But that doesn't matter. The point is that first of all, it's something a little bit different. People are usually joining virtual calls in observer mode. So they will just maybe click on join meeting. They make turn on their cameras, but probably actually even not. And this is a whole sequence that gets them to the point where their cameras are on, their mics are on. They're speaking to the group that they've just connected with. And it reminds everybody that they were real human beings on the on the other end of the zoom call. And it also gets people engaging right away. And what we know about online engagement is that the earlier you get people engaging, the more likely they are to engage in the rest of the session. It's actually even true in a person. And I love because like so far, there are so many golden insight. Like first, you need to design your session with a clear purpose. Like you need to do adapter style and your facetation based on who they are using the room. And as you said, like I see this so many times, like just using the same techniques or the same activity, the same way of facilitating no matter the audience. I think it's a it's a big no. But then what I love is that you this the prompt for the poor prompts or even the the greetings where they need to unmute and put the camera on. It's a great prompt for also you getting them to show their face on the camera. Because like I remember my first remote session, like it's so energy consuming for you, the facetator, because most of the time you don't see this. You don't see people. Like even if you like you make it nice, it's like, hey, can you make it like? Can you turn on your camera so that it's easier for me to see your confuse? If you're happy, if you like what you're hearing so that I can give you more instructions, this is the the prompt I was using to get them like share their camera on. It was not working. So it's like, oh, I need to go in power mode and making sure that I pour all this energy even though nothing is coming back. Because you see now you're nodding at me, you're smiling at me, you know, it gives me energy to keep interacting with the same level of energy. And that's that's why I love your tips because like, this is the type of techniques. Then you hear how you make sure that people are really engaged and you do that very fast with the tree steps that you just shared. And I love what you just said about, you know, like sometimes when you don't, when you can't read your audience, you're not getting that interaction and participation. As a facilitator, you do tend to, you know, kind of like you're probably not saying this out loud, but you're saying, what else can I, you know, what else can I do? That's what's running in your head. And so you're thinking about that. You're trying to bring, you know, you're 150% to this session. You're not getting the feedback. And that is what makes it so exhausting. Not only for your, you know, your participants, there's a whole, you know, Zoom fatigue. That's real. But also for the facilitators, it's very challenging when you don't have that engagement in terms of just kind of preserving your own energy. And I've had Zoom calls that have been very challenging. I hit, leave meeting, and I feel exhausted, you know, because of that, because it's, it's really, there's, I think, even more so in virtual sessions, you as the facilitator, especially at the beginning. And this is why the beginning is so important, because if you can get that group engaging and participating and interacting, then the rest of the session actually flows a lot more easily. But when you don't at the beginning of the session, it really is like push, pushing a boulder up the hill for the entire session. And you said it, because like most of the time people join us, not even a participant, like they're going to be in the back, but maybe doing something else in the same time, not putting their mic on, not showing the camera, working on something else. So they are not even engaged. And like, like the fact that you do that is right away, okay, no, they are really a participant. And now I can make something happen with with the session and with them. And then instead of a whole different takes 100 percent. Yeah. Something. And maybe we can, yeah, okay, the beginning is super important. So now, how can you make sure that you keep building on, on what you set up so far? They've also sequenced during the session or to keep up the energy, because as you said, there is zoom fatigue. And people tend to be tired faster in remote session. Oh, like if you're so much sequence, I guess we can ask for more. Yeah. And that is the question. It's like, okay, now I have people. They're engaged. How do I keep the momentum going? So that first opening sequence that welcome is five minutes. It's no longer than that. It can even be even a little bit shorter than that. But it's really you are starting right on time and you're, you know, engaging right away. After people turn on their mics, say hello, we turn off our mics, then what I usually do is I give people just a quick understanding of what's going, you know, what they can expect. So here's our goal for the session. And here's, here's what we're going to do. One, two, three. And I dropped that into the chat. And it's, there's, I learned very early on from another facilitator called Staff Turner. This technique of, like this little, it's not even a technique. It's just a, it's a habit or a practice where you have your instructions, any instructions for breakouts, any prompt questions, any, the agenda, the goal, ready to go on your outline with a little emoji before each point and copying and pacing those into the chat. This makes it so people get very distracted as we know on, on online calls. And so dropping everything into the chat with these emojis. So you can almost just visually find it, you know, very quickly in the chat, especially if it's a busy chat, is a way that if people just kind of lose focus or concentration for a second when you're, you know, kind of going through, like here's what we're going to do today. They can, they can find those instructions again. Or if you have that on a slide and the slide disappears, then at least people can also find it again in, in the chat. And I find that that's like another thing in virtual sessions. You really have to make it as easy as possible for your audience to follow along with you and, and not get, you know, distracted or not lose interest because maybe they have gotten distracted for a minute and they've come back and they're like, oh gosh, I've lost track of where we are. So, or they had like internet loss or whatever can happen, then at least they can go back to the chat and see the prompt. Exactly, exactly. So that's one thing I've gotten into the habit of doing. I've gotten into the habit of because, yeah, sorry, Gwen. Yeah, yeah. Then then you're mostly always using Zoom in your remote facilitation setup or I'm mostly using Zoom. Okay. The other day I had to do a session on Google Meet. I have to say like I'm not as big of a fan of of Meet or our teams, but I'm doing most of mine on Zoom. Okay. And you're not using another collaboration tool like I don't know Miro or Miro. I do use Miro. I'm more of a Miro than a Miro person for, you know, for if we have to collaborate as a group on a whiteboard or something like that, I also use Streamalive. So Streamalive is another tool that's built into Zoom. So you can find the Streamalive zap app. And what it does Streamalive, I came across the Streamalive very early also in my online facilitation journey because I had met the founder, Lex DeRion, in an online course. And we hit it off and he said, I'm just about to start this launch this online engagement software called Streamalive is it, oh, let me see what it is. And so I was really lucky to be part of like a, you know, a beta testing group. And then I actually joined Streamalive as an advisor because they were really interested in how are these facilitators using these digital tools and how can we design something that's really seamless because tech managing tech is one of the also the, for a lot of people who don't come from maybe an engineering background or, or, you know, audio visual background tech can be a really challenging part of leading live online sessions. And something like Streamalive makes that really easy. And what I love about Streamalive that's different than something like Mentimeter, which a lot of people use is Streamalive is embedded in zoom. And it takes the answers straight from the chat. And it translates it into the screen. So you can run a poll and just put in the chat like what's your poll answer one, two, three or four. And it will take it from the chat and show you the poll results right there on the screen as long as well as a lot of other things like word clouds and and text response. That's a great tool. I was asking because like I was, yeah go ahead, sorry. No, do you use Streamalive? Have you I've discovered a tool thanks to SAID, and actually from a launch site produced it, so you use Streamalife, and it looks, I've got also the chance to interact with him recently and he's going to provide me the tools I'm going to use it more and more, but my question initially was, I was asking you just to understand your technical setup, because you're using the chat a lot, it requires a lot of preparation because you need to have the prompts ready, written, ready to be shared, and for example, when I remotes, when I facilitate a remote session, usually I have a mirrored board, it's already described, so that's the one I'm doing it, it's also my style of hesitation, so that's why I wanted to just to re-re-explain this for the audience, because as you said, it depends also on what is the goal of the session. That's right. You're training or less like real core collaboration in a web board, you may not need to add another complexity for your part's discipline. That's right. Yeah. And I, to tell you the truth, Mehdi, I use very, very few slides and tools in my live sessions. I've kind of gone through a process of learning a whole bunch of tools and things, and in my live sessions, because I do a lot of training, and I do a lot of interactive training and experiential training, so for example, slides, I almost don't use any slides in my sessions at all, because they really, in terms of what I do, they really cut the connection that you have with your audience, and that's one thing that really interrupts the flow of the kinds of experiential exercises and stuff like that that I do, which might be different than someone else, who really, for whom, maybe like in a webinar setting, for example, where you don't have the same kind of interaction that you have with an audience, maybe in a live Zoom workshop, slides then become a really important way of supporting the sharing of content and stuff like that. I think it's an interesting topic, I'm also like coming from consultants, yeah, I'm a big slide guy, so it's like, oh, I cannot live with a slide, but I do understand all the problems that comes with slide, especially when I see slides made by people, like offer crudel of information, confusion, and for having the chance to discuss with Voroly Alexandra and see, or also, a type of hesitation, I see how the learning experience design can, the benefit can bring when it's done like this, so I totally understand maybe the angle you're taking in your in your practice. Yeah, I think that the point being that you have options, you know, as a facilitator, you have a virtual facilitator, you have lots of options in terms of picking tools and techniques that's going to work, and that's why actually the first step in this whole process is that preparation and knowing your audience, your purpose, and the transformation that you want for your audience, and I call that the APT, you know, apt. Nice one. I'm asking all those questions, because when I remember, like, what is the funny for me in my journey, is that I facilitated really a little bit before COVID, and then I needed to learn to learn it as as everyone online, and since I was facilitating more design sprint, I needed like a board, and it was so overwhelming, because I was still new into like, how guiding a group, reading a audience, making it interactive, and managing the tech in the same time, you know, giving them sticky notes, making sure they are squashing in the chat, looking at the web. It was really too much for me, so it was like, and it's like a gym, because now after COVID, I did came back to more in person, time to time, I have a remote session, and I see I love the habits of like, it's a reacting with all those tools. So what is your advice, and I get maybe you already shared some answers to the question, but what is your advice to managing tech, because at the end of the day, they will always be some tech? Yeah, there will always be some tech, that is definitely the reality of virtual facilitation. I, my advice would be to keep it as simple as you need it to be, so I have seen some of the best online sessions I have participated in, have used very little tech in the session. And some of the best online sessions I have been on, have used, you know, all kinds of fancy ways of pulling things up on the screen and, and, and all that kind of stuff. So I've seen, there's a, there's a huge spectrum of ways that you can lead a session with a lot of tech or with a little tech, and they can both be, they can all be really, really engaging sessions. But I think if you're somebody who struggles with juggling the tech, which I would consider myself to be in that category, I still struggle, you know, with like trying to manage everything at the same time, there's a few things that I would say. One is that make it as simple as you need it to be, so don't feel like you have to use you know, 10 different types of digital tools in your session. If really, you feel really comfortable only using two, you know, that's the first thing. The second thing is you want to create an experience for your participants that's as frictionless as possible. So if you are going to use, and that's, you know, the people who are way more experienced in managing all this tech, they can do it in a really seamless way. I have to say like in my own experience, I am not one of those people. I have to be, I have to really practice, you know, the transitions and the switching and all this kind of stuff to make sure that the experience of managing the tech is as seamless as possible for my audience, and also as easy for me to manage. The third thing I would say is that it really helps if you're able to engage some kind of copilot person who is on the tech that allows you then to focus on the interaction, the delivery and the facilitation. I find that that's hugely, hugely helpful, and sometimes you can just enlist somebody, you know, I've enlisted my kids at different points in time to help me with the tech. But there are people out there who will do that and sometimes you'll find, you know, people who may even do that, you know, maybe they're a participant in your session, but they happen to have the tech skills and you know that beforehand, you can engage them in that way, because people also, I've found that, you know, it's people like to have kind of different roles and stuff like that in live sessions. But that's, that's very helpful is to, if you really feel challenged by juggling tech, is to actually work with somebody who can support you on that. Yeah, I love this advice, and again, to be honest, as someone who's easy, like I'm, I'm really computer fluent, I learned it, but it still takes mental space from you. So you need to think about all those things. So what we had, and I was lucky because I had a team is that we had those, we had all a technical cofacy theater, someone that was just responsible for the tech, and then we had a cofacy theater, so when I was just there to support the facetation. Of course, it's a very comfortable way of facilitating, but it was life changing, like, I don't need to take, to think about the tech, and as I said, it's a habit that you can lose very fast as well, and tools are evolving, and that's why I was a big fan of butter when butter came in, because the better had this problem is that I love it was like one link to share. Yeah. And it's like, okay, there is one tool, and if you use it very well, you don't need to juggle any more or without the tools, but I like the advice of, like, keep it simple, and it's going to be easier for you to fully engage and remove that mental space that could be, no, keep that mental space to be fully engaged. That's right. All right. And then if we follow the order, how do you close, like, is there some specific techniques to closing in the line session? Yeah. This is the closing, I would say, is one of the number one mistakes that a lot of people who lead virtual sessions make is to not properly close your session. It's very easy, and it's a very easy mistake to make, because if you are running over time, you run out of time to do the closing, and you kind of just end the call with a, okay, thanks everyone, and you're really rushed to finish on time. But I would say that the closing is one of the most important parts of your whole session. And as we know, from the peak and theory, the closing is the peaks and the end that people remember the most. And so the closing, my recommendation, my advice is to no matter what, reserve the last five minutes for the closing, wherever you are, you know, if you're in the middle of activity or whatever, just keep your eye on the clock and reserve those last five minutes for closing. And my closing usually has like three elements. So I do a quick recap, okay, this is, you know, this is what we've done here, the, you know, these are the big takeaways from today's session, because it helps people, you know, of Scott and I. a lot. They'll have gotten a lot of of information. Maybe if it's more experiential, they'll be, you know, coming out of having these experiences. It really helps to refocus on recapping, you know, what are the main takeaways or the main points of the session. The next thing I will do is then put a prompt in the chat that's another that mirrors the the power prompt from the beginning. So if I've asked people at the beginning, what's a highlight, you know, of your day so far? At the end, I'll ask, what's a highlight from this what's one highlight from this session? And it's that kind of callback to the beginning and book ending your session that our brains like that kind of, you know, connecting back and closing the loops, exactly closing loops. So I'll put that in the prompt. People will share, you know, narrate a few responses. And then again, I'll ask people, let's turn on our mics, turn, you know, turn the cameras back on and say goodbye to this group in the same way that you would say goodbye to your really good friend where you live. And that's that has the effect of giving some people an opportunity to reflect on one thing that they will like kind of focus in on and take away from the session, a highlight, a takeaway, an aha, whatever it is. And it gives people one opportunity, last opportunity to connect with the group and then end on an emotional high note. I love that. So and it's really because it just summarized like how to nail your experience online. And also something that you said that I think that we need to maybe repeat here, is that like you said, as you, as you know, is those little things that contribute to the great experience. And I think a lot of people learning the craft or learning fascination always ask this question, like, how can we make a great experience and they expect this, I just run one things like that or do this thing at the end is like, I came to the same conclusion that you it's like really the sequence of small little things, like in your example, like they start to open the link, they see the little brown, they see the video of Queen welcoming them. Then the first question you're going to ask them and then the way you're going to make sure they keep engaging and then the way you're closing and closing the loops, it's all of that contributing to the great experience. It's not like one magic. We just had some specific point, but it's all together that create this wonderful zoom session that differentiates from all the boring wonders that we have every day. That's and that that's the good news, Maddie is that anyone who is out there who is really asking them themselves the question, how can I make my zoom meeting or my teams meeting or my workshop more engaging. You're like miles ahead of a lot of people who are not asking themselves that question. And so that's why we're stuck in a lot of organizations, a lot of places in these like boring meeting, boring zoom meeting traps. It's that you know, we're the same person talks. You don't really know why you're there. You are probably checking your email and kind of zoned out from what's going on. If you're asking yourself the question, how can I make my experiences more engaging? You are miles ahead. And it is a matter of there is there is no playbook really for this yet. This is a very new, you know, art and science of these leading these highly engaging zoom experiences. And so it's there's a lot of experimentation. And it's, you know, somebody's said to me the other day, I heard on a podcast the other day, somebody does a lot of online sessions. And she said, I just try to improve 1% every session that I do. I thought that's really that is really helpful. Because sometimes it can also be a little bit overwhelming like, oh my gosh, okay, now I have to, you know, customize my weight room. And now I have to do this. And I have to remember the sequence and the order. But it's just trying one or two things in your session and seeing how they land, you know, and seeing what kind of response that you get. And then building on that, learning from that. All of that as someone with a stand up comedy. And I said, like, I know that the set is working. So if each time I do the same sets, I'm not learning anything and I'm not improving. So each time I'm going to try just to try something new. And it can be as small as changing an intonation. And I brought this in my facilitation, same thing, no matter the workshop, even if it's like, it can be like an okay, our workshop, meaning I will use the same type of activities. I always try to use something new because it keeps it fresh for you, the facilitator, and then it's a way of like, oh, how does it land? Taking the feedback, improving it and keeping that loop of like continuous improvements. Oh, love that. Great advice. And good because like also what we've seen and what is that remote is there to stay. A lot of companies like saw the benefit of like working remote, especially with entities in the world, reducing expenses of traveling. So what I see from my client, like my client, Tarte International is that either they will do full remote, either they're going to try to do an hybrid setup. Let's not go there. But like, there is this need of like, of still developing virtual facilitation. Do you have any tool or a way to see how we could start a journey or how to start a journey if you are kind of committed to learn more that skills, like to be able to lead engaging virtual session. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I do have a tool and it's something that I'm just about to launch. And it is called the online engagement scorecard. And it's really, it's a short quiz. 20 questions. And in three minutes, you get a personalized assessment against four different aspects of virtual facilitation. And those are the design, interaction, your delivery, and the tech. Cool. And so you get this neat, like personalized scorecard that just gives you a snapshot of where you are right now. Because I think for facilitation is one of these skill sets that most people learn kind of on the fly. They learn from experience. There aren't a lot of benchmarks that show you, you know, exactly what kind of skills you need to master in order to be a really skillful facilitator, particularly a virtual facilitator. And so after five years of this deep exploration and leading courses and training lots of people around the world, I've, I've decided, you know, what I think something that would be really helpful would be to have this quiz that would just give you that, that quick picture of where your strengths are and where you have room to grow and give you some, you know, immediate tips that you can start working with straightaway, you know, to see because this is the, the neat thing about virtual facilitation is that you start using these seemingly small little, you know, making these small little tweaks to your session and you can see the impact straightaway. And that's what I'm hoping for with this quiz, the online engagement scorecard is to give people a way to understand where they're at, where they have room to grow and and have some concrete steps, you know, to improving their online sessions. Because like you said, Medi, online is here to stay, even though people may vastly, you know, I hear a lot of, even facilitator friends of mine, oh, thank goodness, we're all like now back to in person, you know, I, I really don't like online workshops. I'm personally somebody who I love online. I love online because I feel like it's like there's a challenge there. There's a nut that, that when you crack it, it, it just unlocks all kinds of, of amazing things and, and it shows people that a lot more is possible, you know, in online sessions than, than we even think. Definitely. And there are two things I want to say first. If I keep my, first I will talk about the thing and then we will come back to the assessment is, you know, when you're going to have a workshop in person, it's going to be you prepared and we're going to book some, but the agenda of people half a day, maybe a day altogether, it's going to be all that for that specific moment, but this cannot happen like every, every time, right? But we've like online session, we're having, like, if we look at our agenda, we have meetings every time. Every time we found we would need to lead engaging session, but we would need to lead sessions and they better be engaging so that you differentiate yourself, make an impression, whatever is your goal. So that's why it's also a super important, I think, skills and, and the beauty of it is that it's also going to make you, I think, a better facilitator for also in person because you're learning from a different dynamic. That's the first thing that I wanted to say. And then the second thing is like coming back with my consultant hat is like, how can you improve if you don't measure where you're at today? So having these assessments, I'm also, I like figures, I like facts, I like the idea of seeing the assessment and see where I can grow. because sometimes you go to your webinar or you're listening to this podcast. I listen to Gwen, she gives me all those tips and you may think that, oh, this is the thing that's gonna change your session. Maybe it's not that. Maybe you have something that is more important that you didn't realize that you need to work on. That will have a bigger impact than just like customizing your waiting room, for example. So I like to make things tangible and I think that's the beauty of your score card because then you will have facts and there will be tips as well. - Yeah, yeah, some personalized tips, based on what your score card results are. Some personalized tips that you can start getting, get going straight away. - That's awesome. So I will put the link of the score card when it's live in the show notes. I think the episode should be live at the moment. It's the score card is live as well. Is there something else that you want to share with the audience, Gwen? - Now I'm like, I've been so focused on the score card recently 'cause I'm just about to launch it. That's pretty much what's on my mind. But I mean, really, if you want to level up your skills, I also have a digital course that's called Live Session Magic. And it's a two hour self-paced video course that takes you through those eight steps that I mentioned before, step by step, on a system, it's the system that I use for designing consistently engaging workshops. And so it takes away the stress and the guesswork of do I do this activity before that activity? How many activities do I do? How do I time my sessions so that they flow but they don't feel like too rushed? So a lot of what I've learned, I've just, I've put into this live session magic course. And so what I'm, my next step is to link the quiz really closely with the course so that we, you know, those on the scores that people get on those four elements of virtual facilitation, then map really directly to what you're learning in the course. So those were the, that's another thing that I spent a lot of my heart and soul into putting this together because it's just, no one really teaches you how to do this stuff in a way that you can do it consistently again and again. And my real mission is to help people design and lead these exceptional experiences because it's for our audience, you know, to have that impact and to give them that unforgettable experience. And it's a way that we can, like you said, you know, you can make a, an impact yourself, you know, in the work that you do. It's a real differentiator. It's a, it's a new skill. And again, I insist that very few people are actually taking the time to learn it well. So that's what I'm, I'm really excited about. - And I'm sure people can learn so much from you. And I did during this episode, you know, what I realized recently because it's like, okay, I'm good when I'm in the room when it's really a workshop. I'm good when it's a remote workshop. But what I was learning recently, I always see the bunch of webinars. And this is where I don't see myself anymore as a facilitator, of course, like reading the audience and interacting with, with question that's like, of course, that I can do. But, you know, there's, how can I create problems during my storytelling? You know, get them on board. I create this interaction so that it's not just me talking for 50 minutes. And that I can see, like, because this is also what you do, is like, no matter the type of live events, there are different challenges. And based on the, all the things you teach, some of them will be more impactful for the type of session. So thanks for sharing all of that. I really enjoy the old, those, all the steps. - So many, I have one question just before we wrap up for you. - I hope you're not gonna still, well, how I wanted to close the session, but tell me. (laughing) - I don't think so, but I didn't know that you were, UK, you have this standup comedy background, as well, you said that you did standup comedy. - Actually, I stopped because of the kids. I don't, I didn't do improv. - Okay, standup comedy. I just wonder how your experience and standup comedy has or how, you know, if it has and how it's influenced your facilitation and how you are in a group experience. - Oh, it's such a great question. And you know, with other people from the podcast, what we realized is that a lot of facilitator are coming from another, a performing art, can be singing, it's can be improv, and we learned so much from those things. And I think what I've learned the most from standup, I think two things from when it comes to facilitation. The first thing is the first minute, like the first choke, the first thing I'm gonna say. You know, people are like, especially even not known. You go into this open mic or it's just like, it's five standup first, they don't know you. You have 30 seconds to have them in. Otherwise, they're not going to listen to you and you're gonna bump. So, and this is where I learned of like, how to make sure to nail the beginning. And what I also learned is that, even if I don't get the laugh that I'm expecting, or I know that I should have, I should keep going giving the same energy. And this like, I can relate when I see like, all those black screens, when I'm doing some remote facilitation on teams. It's like, okay, I'm not going to be impacted by that. I know how to perform. Let's, let's bring the best jokes, of course, you're in sun jokes, but you got one, you got my point. - I love that. I love the, you know, grab the audience's attention in the first, in the first like few moments of being with them and keep going, you know. Keep going. And those are really very highly applicable. - And there are plenty more. - Do we actually, there are plenty more. Like when you have a longer set, sometimes even if they're in, you can lose them. There's like, how I get to bring them back. - Yeah. - And to change the rhythm. This is why like a special like a one hour, anyway, we can make an entire episode on this. Did you do some improv? Because I know improv is a big thing in Canada. And even set up. - Yeah, I will, I, I was actually, just had a stand-up show last week. Stand-up is a big and an improv show as well. It's a big thing in Toronto, because a lot of comedians have come out of Toronto. - Yeah. - And I have never formally trained in improv or anything, but I've done a lot of improv in my own facilitation training. And it's just, it's so, there's so much that you can learn from, from things like improv. And the organization I used to work in, a lot of the facilitators did have that kind of performative training. Like you said, either like a singer or an actor, or comedy, but the thing that I also learned is that you don't have to be a performer to be a really good facilitator. So those kinds of techniques, if you haven't ever done improv before or some of those performing arts, it is great training for in so many ways, like the ways that you just mentioned in terms of group work and leading groups. But yeah, I've never had any formal training, but I use a lot of techniques, you know, from the world of improv and other arts practices. - As I said, I didn't do improv myself, but like, you know, always accept the proposition of the other one, I can be a good practice, especially when you're creating a creating connection. Jan Keck, that you probably know is also using a lot of improv techniques in his own facilitation or the way he facilitates his eyes, malters. So indeed, that's what you said. In facilitation, there are so many interesting skills to learn, to be good at what you're doing, and you need to make some choices. But of course, the ones that you propose are some of the most important ones. - Well, it is a life, it's one of those skills and capacities that it's a life long endeavor. You know, if you think that you're gonna. - It ends, you know everything after two years. It's, you don't, because the more, and again, the more you start learning a musical instrument. I don't know if you've ever played a musical instrument. - I tried, but I tried as well. - I played the piano for many years, and you just realize, just when you think that you are getting to a certain level of proficiency, you realize there's a lot more to learn. And facilitation, virtual facilitation, it's just one of those kinds of things, where it's a life long endeavor, but it's so worthwhile, because there's so many things that you learn through facilitation, at least in my experience, there's so many things So I've learned in facilitation that I apply. In every aspect of my life, you know, the parenting, the, just in my family life, and my professional life as a, when I, you know, as a team leader, as somebody, as a creative person, as a creator, as a, it is, it's got so many different, you know, applications that it's, you know, in my, that's why I love it so much is that it's just, it's a lifelong endeavor to master some of these skills. That's why I always say and like, it doesn't take too much to lead a good session. You can learn like basic skills and you can already make a good impression in a good session. But the good to grades, what a journey, and I think like we've seen that in no matter the art, the practice is like working on and keeping learning for improving small things, but again, it's all those small things together that will make the difference. So guys, I hope you enjoyed this episode. I guess you can find Gwen on LinkedIn. Gwen Onesbro will put that in the show notes. She has a great newsletter called The Quest. I will also put that in the show notes. I think it's one of the few that makes it in my mailbox because I cannot be too honest. I don't read much newsletter so that I'm not too influenced in my creative process. Just a fan sticks to see that I'm lazy. But The Quest makes it. Is there another place where people can find you? - I also have a website. You can find me at Gwen Onesbro.com and that's kind of my online home. So that's the hub for. - It's gonna be easier for everything. Okay, cool. Then I want to do two things to close this session. Gwen, the first thing I'm gonna ask you is like one word to summarize the set episode. I want to highlight so that I'm even using your own one highlight of the episode. And then I wish that we see each other goodbye like we have been friends forever. - You're a fast learner. - If I don't practice now, I will already forget, right? - Great. Well, one of the highlights for me of this episode was hearing from you about how your stand up, what it's taught you that you use in your facilitation. I love that. I love the, that was an aspect of your work that I wasn't familiar with that I learned about you today. And makes me feel like I know you just a little bit better. So that was one highlight. And then yeah, shall we turn our mics on everyone and say goodbye to each other as we would to a really good friend. - So I want you, Ojins, even if we cannot hear us, like you're gonna do it with us in the car with the kids no matter where you're listening to this podcast. - In whatever language comes most naturally to you in whatever way. - One, two, three of our dreams. - So many. - Bye bye. - It's been amazing to have you, Gwen. Thanks to you very much. - What a pleasure. - It was a really cool session. - Thank you very much, Maddie. - See you guys in the next one. Hope you enjoyed it.