Speaker 1Hi, pals. Welcome to the Hacker-MPR podcast dropping in here because I'm a little bit excited to tell you about the Hacker-MPR on Demand Library. Now, you don't have to wait for the next program to launch. Instead, you can access the on-demand library anytime when it works for your schedule. You can learn how to become a publicist in just four hours. And launching this week, we now have two new mini masterclasses that go to expert and the sellout brand of product PR masterclass. If you aren't interested in finding out a little bit more about this offering, please jump over to my website. I'd love to see you in the on-demand hub. Welcome to the Hacker-MPR podcast where I chat with journalists, editors, producers, and publicists about the commonly misunderstood world of PR. And how you can nail your next pitch. I'm your host, Edette Barry, publicist, PR mentor, and founder of the Hacker-MPR program that teaches entrepreneurs how to DIY their PR. This podcast is recorded on Bungalung Country. I acknowledge that Soppantee has never been seated. It always was and always will be Aboriginal land. This podcast is brought to you by my nine-week Hacker-MPR program, designed to mentor small business owners to become your own publicist. In my program, I'll walk you through live brainstorming to tailor your personal media strategy and invite you into a supportive community to give you the skills needed to leverage your story, win headlines, and save thousands of dollars in agency fees. Data and research are one of my go-to strategies when it comes to creating a news hook for a media story. But where do you get this data from and how does collecting your own data work? Well, Sam Elshore is the founder of DreamData. She is a self-professed numbers nerd and she's on a mission to teach business owners how to lean into their figures and use them in storytelling. So today, Sam joins me to talk all about the relationship between numbers and words and how we can use data to inform our media pictures, to increase our credibility, confidence, and authority. Now, in this episode, we're going to talk through some of the tools, the methodology, and some case studies of brands that are using numbers in their media outreach and in their media campaigns. And there's some really good juicy insights in this one. I hope you enjoy it. Well, Sam, thank you so much for making some time to have a chat and also thank you for your investment in this interview. I know the preparation you put into it is very significant, and I think everyone's going to really benefit a lot from your knowledge and understanding of how data and stories are woven together, and particularly how brands are using that in the media. So thanks for preparing for us.
Speaker 2Not a problem at all, very happy to be here and really happy to start this conversation. From my perspective, the more that we can talk about, that combination of weaving data into storytelling, the better it provides credibility and it provides authority. And from an author's perspective, it really provides some authority and an expert approach to what is sometimes a little bit of fluff and spin, so while we talk about it and have that conversation on the global level, the better I think everyone, so happy to be here.
Speaker 1Yeah, awesome. So, Sam, you have your own business, stream data, but you haven't always had your own business. Tell us a little bit about your background. Do you know what?
Speaker 2I have to say, first off, I love listening to podcasts, quite often I overjoy some of them, but I really enjoy listening to the coloured and varied stories of guests on podcasts, particularly some of yours, I did. And I have to admit, openly and upfront that mine is nothing like that. It is so linear, it's such a bore in comparison, but I've spent 20 years in corporate and, you know, that's been amazing in so many respects, started off studying and end up focusing on business and marketing, which was fabulous. And I was almost just letting into that because I was such a homebody, I didn't want to leave home to go uni, so my choices were limited based on on what I was going to study. So in regards to that, yeah, I found a real niche for market research early on, and a lot of my practical placements were focused on doing market research studies.
Speaker 1And Sam, for those at home that don't necessarily know what market research is and what customer insights are, do you want to break it down for us?
Speaker 2Absolutely. It can be, and a lot of people have this real perception that customer research in market and insights, particularly science and mathematical, and they can be on a certain level. But part of the reason of what I'm wanting to do is to really bring customer research and insights to the forefront of business on every day level. So it's really about having conversations with the customers upfront, and, you know, on a really personal level, to understand what their peak points are, to really understand, you know, where customers have problems, whether they're customers or they might be non-customers. And to really down to understand where those irks and lurks might be, and then using those insights to put back into your business. Now that could be through product development, it could be through marketing messaging, it could be through communications, so all of those angles that you can basically take the data and use it and put it back into your business. One of the best analogies I use is suggesting that having customer insights is pretty much like having the tax ladder numbers before the draw. It's the best, you know, pre-hine site you can get in terms of operating a business, and having intel, it gives you confidence, it gives you the answers, without having to guess all the time. And, you know, with guessing comes, you know, mistakes and risk and, you know, lost money opportunities, energy time, all that sort of stuff, so.
Speaker 1Yeah, and I guess also that data also helps inform media stories, which is something that we'll dive into throughout the conversation today. So when did you, when did you start dream data?
Speaker 2So this has only been a really new venture for me. COVID, like a lot of people, it was about halfway through COVID, and I think, you know, we're at the time assessing, you know, what you want to do in life and where you're up to and all those sorts of things, and for me, I'd spent 20 years in corporate, and amazingly 20 years in the same organisation. So it was probably a point of, if not now, then win, and I'd always had a incredibly active, possibly overactive entrepreneurial mindset, and for me, it was like, okay, we spent all this time doing, you know, lots of great work for somebody else, maybe now it's time to, you know, do some stuff for myself, and almost go back to my roots, which was, which was market research, and that landscape has changed so much, so much. In that period of time, from what was a really manual, an onerous process, to now there's some incredible tech tools, and we're seeing the development of AI and that space as well too. So good. Yeah, some incredible, incredible changes, but at the core, you know, we're really just having human conversations with our customers, or non-customers, to, you know, to tap their site, I guess I should say.
Speaker 1Yeah, totally. Okay, so let's talk about our data and storytelling, Sam, because I'm, I'm sure people are listening to this podcast, and they're thinking, hang on, no debt, this is not an editor, or a news reporter, or a magazine journalist, what Sam doing here, so what I really tasked you with when we chatted about this is really understanding that connection between data and storytelling. And, and how small businesses can use that to their advantage?
Speaker 2Absolutely, and you're totally right. I don't fit the mold at all, in terms of your normal guess, by any stretch, but, you know, that question is so relevant, you know, why does, you know, data matter in a story, and it's sort of music to my ears and a lot of respects, and I think the most simple answer, because we could talk for these, you know, for hours, but probably the most simple answer. Is that it value ads, and in terms of, you know, I'm sure you're, you've got students and, you know, your audience are trying to put pieces of material and in front of, you know, editors and journalists knows all the time, and it probably really comes back to that point of differentiation, you know, how do you make your story stand out from the 20 others that have, you know, landed in their inbox that day. And I think from a perspective, you know, data can tell its own story in some respects, if the data is strong enough. might make its own headline. If it's not, it can be weaved and woven and sprinkled in amongst a story to really add fat to add depth and credibility to you know what you know that story is saying and all this sudden you can sort of really turn what is, I suppose, an opinion piece into a more factual document and I think that's where there's a shifting power into what that piece of writing might look like.
Speaker 1Totally and I know for like a lot of clients that I've worked with over the years you know drawing on data has been a major pillar of their PR outreach and I know Velvet Garvey who's been part of the Hackeron PR community ran her own survey through the like-minded bitches drinking wine Facebook group and she used the data of that survey as the cornerstone of her news hook because she was able to say you know and obviously this is maybe not the most credible way to run our surveys and research but she was able to say that of the you know 600 odd people she surveyed 80% of them were frustrated that their partners didn't do chores which you know became a most part of her news campaign so you know I see this time and time again and often speak to clients about what are the different ways that you can dive into your business numbers to tell a story so it's it's something that journalists are really hungry for and I know when we started chatting I was really excited to help give tools to small businesses in particular because big businesses they've got this data at their fingertips and it's something that they're very well accustomed to using but in smaller businesses it's you know often people don't have that market research background and so they're you know grappling with data for the first time are there any particular examples of brands that have used data in their media stories that you've seen that you've been really excited by and seeing them doing some pretty cool things
Speaker 2yeah absolutely and just maybe quickly just before I answer that for you I was just going to share a quote with you if you didn't mind because you made that point that journalists and editors are looking for data and as I was doing some research for this I came across a quote which I thought was really impressive and if anything just said to me they're asking for it this was the editor in chief of the West Australian newspapers who said I'm brace data first party data that's the key right now it's going to become a really big thing I think that really contributes to the conversation that we're really having here which is you know that the data in itself can create a completely different angle you know to a new story for instance or it can become the new story itself
Speaker 1well it also just validates the perspective so as you say rather than it just being an opinion a journalist is able to see the context for which your brand or story sits within and that it's validated by some metrics that tell that story rather than it just being like are we
Speaker 2think absolutely absolutely and you know and that and I think that's the biggest mine shift change when we're talking about you know customer insights and data is that we want to get out of that mine shift of sorry mine set of let's think and let's guess instead we know and we're confident about what we're saying and I think when you're using data in your media stories and using it as part of your pitch there's also an opportunity to position yourself as quite a credible author and I can only imagine you know journalists and editors I mean you'd like this space better than I do I do but you know people that fit that mold I can imagine would be added to the little black book and beyond speed dial for a general when they they really do want to you know get the load out from somebody who who does know their staff who can back up what they're claiming and can add value to that conversation yeah
Speaker 1well I always think about like news grabs and and and styling key messages that are going to resonate with people beyond that sort of you know 32nd interview that someone might have and when you are armed with statistics and key facts it means that you're going to be able to prepare key messages that are going to be memorable and really mark people because what we tend to remember is the number but we also need the emotion hooked on to it so I always think about key message development as a bit of a stacking process of thinking about what's the fact or key statistic that we can use and then what's the emotive reason for why that stat is of consequence and then we want to include ourselves as the solution so I always think about using those numbers as the little thing that people are going to remember but they're going to remember it because you've told a story that's hit them in the heart and given them a reason to
Speaker 2believe it absolutely and I think you know you just asked before you know do we have some examples and and one that comes to mind you know really specifically when you talk about getting people in the heart is an example of arrow yeah so to anyone who's who's not arrow is a is a cracking example of a start-up Australian start-up success story who basically resell or rent pre-loved designer clothes really good leverage in the in the marketplace but an example of what arrow did was they piggybacked on earth day really really well and they got some incredible mileage out of this story but they used industry data which you know comes from the world economic forum by saying that staggering 85% of textiles end up in landfill which is which is massive and I think you know that hit that certainly hits people in the heart but their pledge around that and their media pitch was that we're going to save one million items in 12 months from going into landfill so all of a sudden you kind of sit up and take notes and go that's that's a massive claim that's a really big pledge good on you but where they started to get really emotional was linking what you know 85% might actually look like so they likened that in their story in terms of a volume that would fill Sydney Harbour so all of a sudden you know the reader is starting to picture I know I certainly was myself you know featuring what Sydney Harbour would look like you know 85% full of you know landfill clothes so that was a brilliant example of somebody that has leveraged an existing you know opportunity in the media they've seen a story grabbed it used third-party data it wasn't their own and have managed to get some incredible mileage out of that and I suppose you know the important parties is is the follow-up of that in 12 months time you know were they able to to measure it and monitor it and and how did they go in terms of you
Speaker 1know achieving that I think that where brands can find that data and you know I often say to people that that information is out there you know it's a matter of like finding where the reports are published and you don't necessarily have to create the report yourself and do the research it's really just about finding reports that exist in your industry or sector and you know going and looking for them like KPMG to Deloitte always have industry reports that have a whole bunch of data in them that shows benchmarks on different industry information and then using it to tell your own story and I really think that using that visual metaphor of the Sydney Harbour just brings it home for people and it makes it you know really stick in people's heart so they've very clever been very clever in how they've used that storytelling and I know they've been published all over the media landscape from the financial review Yahoo the Guardian they certainly have had plenty of opportunity that's come from using those data hooks as their media
Speaker 2opportunities absolutely and you know there's there's certainly some you know some credibility in terms of what the claims are in and that the important part is that there's you know follow up as I mentioned before but it goes to show the data doesn't necessarily have to be yours
Speaker 1yeah so talk to us a bit more about that for brands that are you know maybe in their early stages like first three to five years yeah all this what are some good ways that they can gather data or or find this information that might inform their storytelling
Speaker 2okay great question and we probably need to talk about data generally a little with here in terms of the types of data that you know are being used in the media and without getting too technical because it can sort of get a little bit I roll this here but there's generally two times. types of data that can be used are more that people might like to consider using. The first is called quantitative data, and it's generally this type of data that will be used to quantify something. It's quite factual and we'll see it presented in the terms of, you know, averages, frequencies, and probably most commonly percentages, to be honest.
Speaker 1Can you throw down a little sentence example of how that might be used in a story? Sure, so it
Speaker 2might be 25% of people suggested that X, Y, and Z, for instance, so using a very specific number is quite factual. You're not going to get too much argument back against that, if that makes sense. I think, as long as you're done, it's credible. There is this little caveat. We probably do need to touch on that at some stage, but we will. But, yeah, quantifiable numbers are, you know, they really paint a very clear, almost a black and white picture in terms of what you're trying to suggest. So, there's not a lot of room for great scale in there. The other type of data that can be used, and we probably don't see this so much in the media landscape, adept, is because it's probably not quite as firm and probably doesn't stack up as much, and that's qualitative data. So qualitative data is probably, it's going to be words, it's going to be sentences. It's going to be the type of data that will come out of things like focus groups, more in-depth interviews, and observational research. So, in that instance, it's probably a little harder to use that type of data, and I probably should also say that data is incredibly powerful. It's incredibly powerful, probably more internally from a business perspective, because you can the type of insights you can pull out of focus groups can be mind-blowing and almost set you off on a new tangent sometimes.
Speaker 1In the past, with a focus group work that I've done, that often informs and shapes key message development just as much as using a quantitative number, like the way people talk and the language they're using focus groups often informs the strategy just as much.
Speaker 2Absolutely, and I'm a massive fan of depth of data you can pull out of those exploratory type research methods, but it's probably not the stuff you're going to want to be talking about in your media pictures and in your stories, I wouldn't have thought.
Speaker 1Where are we getting this data from?
Speaker 2We've talked a little bit about secondary data, which is third-party data. As a data that's available at your fingertips, it might be through industry bodies, it might be through your Googling searches. It's readily accessible, it's cheap, you can get hold of it. It's really good to use, to bulk up. When we're talking first-party data, this is the data that small businesses' businesses are going to collect themselves. It's data they're going to own, and it's brilliant, particularly when you're building a data-driven culture within your business, you're going to have access to that information regularly, and you're going to refine your systems down, which means your data will be credible. When we're talking quantitative data and trying to use that stuff in our media pictures, probably the most appealing way to get that data, I would think we'd be to start looking at survey work. Using questionnaires, you could also do experimental research, but unless you're probably outsourcing that, it's probably a bit tricky to start going down that track if you don't know what you're doing. Put it that way. Let's keep it simple, let's keep it accessible. Exactly. Exactly. So survey work is a really brilliant way to quantify data. Of course, you've got to make sure that the methodology is clean, and that's probably a really big thing. We're not talking about putting up an insta poll here. We're even being really careful around talking about using a survey monkey tool. If you don't know how to clean the data to analyze the data, to make sure you're interpreting it correctly and understanding it, this is the sort of avenue that you want to be heading down is quantifiable data, probably starting with survey work, to then start saying 25% of my respondents said X, 75% or the majority are leaning towards Y, and you can then start to create a really fact-based conversation that you can start weaving in and out of your
Speaker 1storytelling. Yeah. It's interesting because I've seen this across the media landscape a lot with what the daily hours are doing, so via their insta polls, they are amassing, you know, temperature gauges, I suppose, of their audience, and they've recently, you know, Zara Saidler, who's one of the co-founders there, would be, you know, talking on ABC, talking about the voice of young people, particularly in the lead up to the election. She was talking using that saying, well, you know, 80% of our audience is telling us XYZ, which became a really good medium for them to capture a quick sound bite. They've recently dialed that up and they're now using type form instead of their insta polls to capture more sophisticated responses that are not just that one or two responses, but instead are a little more detailed. What do you think about that as a way to survey audiences?
Speaker 2Excellent gauge, and I think that's a really, really good point is that, you know, I think you need to be able to put some parameters around that the work that you're doing, and I think people understand that polls are just a general guide, and they're great, don't get me wrong. They're absolutely serve a purpose and they're fabulous for a gauge.
Speaker 1It's kind of the entree, right? It's not the main male.
Speaker 2Yeah, exactly. I need to dial it up a little bit, and, you know, I'm certainly not a purist, I do believe that we need to make, you know, research accessible and applicable to a commercial base these days. But I think you've also got to put some parameters around what was your methodology, you know, in terms of what you're doing, and be transparent about your sample size. You know, how many will we talk about here? And I mean, the purists will go down that track, you know, was your sample statistically significant? Yeah. I was saying that 10 seconds ago.
Speaker 1Is that the P value or is that in value?
Speaker 2Oh, now you've caught me on that one, but it's one of those.
Speaker 1Yeah, I remember, because I used to work in physiotherapy, PR, and comms, and I would often be looking, I think it's the P value, and that was the size of the audience to what was statistically significant, because we'd always be looking at white papers of different research pieces into movement and the interaction of pain therapies or whatever it might be. Yeah, so I think that sort of speaks to that credibility of the data and how you present it. I know we talked before this interview about the importance of contextualizing whatever numbers that you have access to, so that you're painting an honest portrayal of the numbers, because sometimes a little bit suspicious of numbers that I see in storytelling, because I know that you can misrepresent truths without proper context, so let's dive into this credible database. It's such
Speaker 2an important conversation to have as part of this chart, because you're absolutely right. You can see a range of data and pick the bits out of that that you like the look of, and create a beautiful picture, it's sort of like the insta filter, in some respects, but I think for your data to have serious credibility, you really do need to be able to be transparent about what I've mentioned before, which is how you actually undertook the research, what was involved, even potentially having a, whether it's a web link or a reference at some point on your document or your ends or something, to demonstrate what period of time that research was held, what number of people participated, put some scope around the actual study itself, so it's not just like 80% of people said X, only to find that your sample size was 10 people, just probably got you, you know, be a little bit more open and
Speaker 1honest about, you know, what that data is, you know, suggesting where it's leading, and what the limitations are of it as well, hey, and also apologise to anyone who's listening that they might have my cat pairing crazily in the background as she furiously tries to See you on my lap. So Sam, talk us through some of the ways we can set up a survey to ensure that we're going to upheld the highest integrity in the data we might be collecting. What are some of the like the considerations we need to include? Sure. Well, probably one
Speaker 2of the biggest things I would suggest is, and we've seen this come through in terms of industry trends, is that probably long gone over days of really lengthy detailed owner surveys. You know, short, sharp, fast. It doesn't necessarily suggest you're not going to get quality data. In fact, possibly the opposite. But simplifying it, not over complicating things by any stretch. And I would also probably be suggesting, if we're thinking about which we are here today, the type of quantifiable data that people might want to put into their media stories, I'd probably try and close those questions up a little. Sort of without sounding silly, not ticking boxes, they're called structured questions, but providing questions in the type of, you know, surveys that you're running that really provide quite black and white answers. So it might be, you know, yes, no responses. There might be scale responses that are from, you know, opposite to the, you know, from excellent to poor. You're really trying to get the type of data that can be really used clearly, and there's not going to be too much grey scale in there.
Speaker 1Right. So can we break that down a little bit more into some examples? If you, sorry to put you on the spot, but if you could think about a way. So if a business owner is thinking about, okay, I want to collect some data to use in a story that might tell the story of consumer sentiment about a particular issue. How would they set that up in a structured question to ensure that they weren't going to have misrepresent the truth?
Speaker 2Okay, so we're talking here about somebody feeling maybe a range of feelings about a certain topic. So let me think on the spot here. The best way to do podcast interviews, it's supremely relaxing. Absolutely. So this could be, this could be really quite simply done as the question might pose something like, I'd like to know how you're feeling about X, and at which point you might have a series of responses that could be from, love it through to despise it, and that might be a box-ticking exercise. So all of a sudden, you're, you're gauging how a group of people feel about whatever topic it is that you're talking about. Alternatively, you might put something like that on a scale. So it would be the perfect type of, when we talk about feelings and, you know, which are often hard to quantify in some respects, you know, there is often a little bit of a linear gauge there. It's not just necessarily one end or the other. So that type of question would be perfectly suited to, to some sort of scale response.
Speaker 1Awesome. Okay. So let's talk about, say, a business wants to take their first foray into gathering some data. What's your, what's some of the tools that you would recommend they might look at and, and how they might go about it? Sure. And look, it
Speaker 2probably depends in terms of what they're trying to achieve. And I think touched on this a little bit before that there's different types of research, different types of outcomes. So say, for instance, you know, we've been talking here about trying to quantify data and you stats really well, particularly when you're, you know, creating media pictures. So you're going to want to go down, you know, a quantitative measure there. So we're talking surveys, we're talking experimental research and we're talking, you know, really trying to nail numbers in that instance. You know, if we're starting to feel our way around a topic and we're wanting to do some exploratory research, well, let's deep dive with, you know, a smaller group of people that we can really sort of pick their brains and understand what is that they're actually saying. So down that road, you probably look at focus groups or one-on-one interviews. And the benefit of doing that type of research is that you can stop and probe and start going further into a particular topic and really uncover what the underlying, you know, responses or motivations might be for, you know, a particular topic, for instance. So, you know, in terms of it really comes back to what's subjective and what, you know, that person is trying to achieve. Survey work is probably a really good starting point for someone who's wanting to firstly DIY potentially some of their own, you know, customer insights. It's not complex and you can keep it on a really simple level. You know, when you start running, you know, reports, which is the best, all the work goes into it and then you literally click a button and you get your results. But when you're looking at results, you know, probably the things to start, you know, feeling your way around would probably be most simply frequency in terms of volume of numbers, you know, averages. Most people can, you know, comprehend averages and the other one would be percentages. So really trying to, you know, just quantify in a nice simple way, you know, what the response of those audience has been. You know, when you start looking at focus groups, you know, that type of data is harder to analyse and I would always probably suggest to anyone, the one rule of focus groups is don't facilitate the focus group yourself, but really want to ensure that you've got a third party and experience third party person facilitating a focus group because it can be quite a missed opportunity, you know, missing those moments to drill down on responses if you don't quite, you know, pick up on them. So, so that would be some advice there in terms of focus groups would be for goodness' sake, get an external facilitator and, you know, observe it potentially yourself, but just don't run it yourself.
Speaker 1So if someone's in the DIY space and they're hacking their own research, absolutely. What would your advice be in terms of one, how many questions is an ideal starting point for a survey? And also, how do you get people to do that survey? Are you incentivising it? Are you skewing the data by putting it out to your own audience? Like, what are your recommendations there? Sure.
Speaker 2So let's start with the first part of that, which was, you know, maybe how many questions, because I think that's the responses without sitting on the fence here, you know, how
Speaker 1long is a piece of string?
Speaker 2Great answer. I mean, far as myself, it depends on what you're trying to achieve. And I think, you know, there'll be some instances where it's really short, sharp, you know, quick, and, you know, it might be that the 10 questions is perfect for what you're trying to achieve here. It might be that you really want to delve a little bit deeper. And all of a sudden, you've bumped out to 25 questions. So, you know, both of those scenarios are fine. You've just got to be able to reach your audience in terms of where you are asking them to, you know, to do this survey, for instance. Is it online at home in their own time? In which case, a longer survey is probably going to fly. If it's somebody that you're approaching in the middle of a street, all of a sudden, you're probably going to want to cut that down, because they're going to get a bit antsy, you know, it's still, you know, 24 questions, still answering bits and paces. So it's about being respectful of people's time and also making sure that you actually get the answers that you want. I'd also probably recommend people only ask one question in one question, if that means. I'm like, how I ask questions. And I start about four questions in every question every time. Not at all. Not at all. And that wasn't the leading to that, by any stretch. But it's the fair. It's the fair. Not at all. It's also just ensuring that you're really very, very clear about what you want out of that question. You know, what ants are you looking for out of that question? And ensure it's only one part. Not, you know, if there is two parts of that question, break it down over, you know, a number of questions. Incentives, and that is something that, you know, you really do need to consider in any research study. It doesn't matter what type of study it is, you need to consider whether you're going to incentivise people to participate in it. Particularly, say, for instance, if you're doing something like personal interviews or in-depth focus groups, you might be taking up potentially up to a couple of hours of someone's time. And so you just need to be wary of whether there's going to be an expectation that somebody will be incentivised. It's a strong argument and it will come back to again the group of people that you're approaching, the type of research you're doing and what you're trying to get out of it. So say, for instance, we focus groups. It's quite common to incentivise people or thank them for their time, for wanting to get a word. Often for surveys, it's a bit hit and miss. If you're sending a survey to a group of customers that are loyal to your brand, that know what you're about and have bought into what you're doing, they probably don't really need new incentives. If you're trying to hit up a group of people that aren't your customers and you'd like them to be, there may need to be an extra carrot for them to complete a survey or to click on something to get it done. But there is a goal rule with incentives and it's generally around, if you make a promise, you must follow through on it. Incentives generally don't need to be extensive, they don't need to be anything over the top. If you're running a product based business, they could even be something as simple as something that you make and sell and distribute. You receive something on there as a thank you for that. Sometimes you'll see groups, you know, monetarily incentivising. But if you say you're going to do it, you absolutely do it.
Speaker 1I know in the past with some of the surveys and focus groups we've done, we've either gifted product from the brand because people are obviously interested in it that are there. And even as basic as $50 visa vouchers for people to just go and get whatever they want to do, and that's been for online surveys or in-person focus group interviews. So Sam, talk to us a little bit for brands that are like, "Whoa, this whole data piece, this research piece is totally new to me, but I can see how it could benefit my understanding of who my audience is, my product design, or be part of my media strategy in having some beautiful data that they can lead their conversations with." Talk to us about how brands can work with you and some of the offerings that you have to support early stage businesses.
Speaker 2Yeah, sure. And look, I'd say I've gone into doing what I'm doing for the same reason that you've gone into doing what you're doing, you know, coming out of a corporate world where you have, you know, big budgets, big resources, lots of skills, and you have access to so much wonderful stuff in a big corporate organisation. Small startups, small to medium size business don't have access to that. And it's the likes of, you know, people like yourself and myself who give them that opportunity to have, you know, services on call when they need to, you know, just step into that space. So, you know, for me, any leg up I can give to a small to medium size business in terms of getting them to start thinking about integrating, you know, a real customer centric culture into their organisation. I'm totally for that because it makes so much sense to me over my, you know, corporate experience, you know, I can clearly see the examples of where things have gone particularly well because they're being well rounded out by examples of research that have actually, you know, set a foundation for that particular project or business unit or service. And when you can see the examples where it went completely the opposite way, where people go, oh, we should have done X, we should have done Y, we've just lost a whole stack of money and small businesses don't have that luxury in just having a crack at something. And I think for me that's where, you know, the insides that can be provided to small business to avoid such costly mistakes, especially when you're starting up. It's incredibly powerful and can really change that whole game. So, you know, we've certainly set up a model to support DIY research because again, in small to medium size businesses, you know, a lot of people don't have the budget so they just want to have a crack at it themselves and we've got the tools for people to be able to do that.
Speaker 1And Sam, what are those tools look like? So, someone's going, all right, I want to ignite this DIY research project. What are they look like? What is working with you look like?
Speaker 2Sure. So, at that DIY end, we have some survey suites, which sounds sweet, but they're basically, there's four different suites, but they're written specifically for conducting survey research. And they're questions that are already written, basically just purchase them and download them. And then you can just customise them to your own purposes, even where possible the answers are even in there as well. So, you know, also on our website too, there's actually a freebie of, you know, 25 questions just to get people started in terms of, you know, provoking thought around, you know, what structure might look like and, you know, how you might start off and how you might end that type of stuff. So, so that's sort of the DIY. Also in their, you know, communications groups, you know, what do you write to somebody in terms of, you know, when you want them to participate in a study with you? You know, at what stage it's? So, there's comms groups there as well. And there's also the, the big one, the, you know, the project plan, basically, in terms of it's a step-by-step guide, blueprint pretty much for running any type of research project. It covers all the different types of research for more to go. So, it's literally, you know, printed out, fill it in, run your project and sort of talk through all those requirements for each of those research types in 150 pages. Just don't use the pages. You don't need. We also do, again, sort of, you know, into more service space work. So, we can run a project for somebody, particularly suited for anybody who's extremely time poor, knows that they want to get into this space, but don't have, whether it's the resources or the time to do it themselves. Yeah, we can run quite standard projects quite easily. So, whether it be focus groups or survey work, you know, and again, these days, most if it's done, you know, via email online, we're not limited by geographic restraints there.
Speaker 1So good. Well, I think if anyone wants to have support and guidance by the ultimate data nerd burger, I think they know who to talk to. And, you know, for me, like I've spoken time and time again with clients over the years about, you know, true thought leadership is owning a space with a real depth of understanding that other people don't have. And so, if you're commissioning your own research and doing a massive deep dive into understanding, you know, your industry, your own business, whatever it might be, then doing some of these research will, you know, put you in a position that you could write a white paper or write, you know, media articles, whatever it might be, and really, really establish your authority with genuine credibility and really good numbers behind it. So, I would highly recommend that everyone checks out what you're doing. Where would the best place be, Sam, for people to find you and come and say hello?
Speaker 2Yes, we would love people to come and say hello. So, on social media, at Hello Dream Data, but I'd also probably just direct people straight to our website because there's some really good resources on there in terms of some freebies is actually a quiz on there. Of course, of course. Would it be a data nerd without capturing some data of our own? Well, I was going to say I'd be ashamed for, wouldn't it? But that's actually a really great tool for people who don't know where to start in terms of what sort of research should I do. Because there is, there's a survey work, there's focus groups, there's interviews, there's experimental, there's observation. So, where do you actually start? So, by going through, I think it's maybe 10 or 12 questions. It'll give you a really good guide as to where to start. And also, we talked before about sample sizes. Doing statistically significant research, you need to know that your sample size is actually going to stack up. What I mean by that, sorry, I probably didn't explain it properly before, but that your sample is able to be applied to a much broader population. So, it actually stacks up in terms of its quantity. So, there's a sample size calculator on our website. There are lots of them on the web, so as not the only one. But the mathematical formula is just, it's scary. And no one needs to see that any time ever. So, the calculator is literally popping a couple of parameters. And it will also tell you not just the ideal sample size, but also the prospective number of respondents you need to actually take that sample size. So, say you need to have the size of 100, it might tell you that depending on the parameters, you need to actually target 200 people to achieve that sample size of 100. So yeah, so website is just literally dreamdata.com.au and there's heaps of stuff on there, lots of blog articles and sorts of things as well, too.
Speaker 1Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Sam, for coming and sharing your amazing knowledge and insights about data. I think that for anyone that has more questions, I urge you to get in touch, but also for anyone that's sort of on the fence about whether data is going to be valuable to their pursuits in business, I hope that this conversation has convinced them of the value and, you know, the broad applications that it can have in your business. So thanks so much for coming and having a chat. No problem at all. And that's a wrap. Thanks for tuning in to Hack your own PR. If you loved this episode, please go on over and subscribe, review, and even give it a shout out on social media. You can find me at Odet and Co on Insta. Until next time, guys.
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