2933: How To Choose The Right Gym for You !

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Enjoy the rest of the show. Of all the things that can influence your results, of all the things that can make it easier or harder to burn body fat, build muscle, get more fit, and be more consistent, where does a good gym play into that? Does it make a big difference? And if it does, what should you look for in a gym to help with results? We're going to talk about that today. Remember, we ran gyms for years. We know the answer. So we're going to talk about does a good gym make a difference? Let's get to it. First off, let's answer that. Does a good gym make a difference? Well, in the context of comparing it to a bad gym or a gym you don't like, 100%, of course. Yeah. I mean, nobody likes to show up to a place every day or every other day to a place they don't like. And so in that context, yeah, I think it makes a big difference. In another context, which is interesting for me to comment on personally, because I did feel really strongly about this early on in the podcast. When we first started, you guys both had already been working out from home for quite some time. I have always been a commercial gym attendee and I've always thrived in that environment. And I swore that a big part of my consistency and hard effort and all the things, like I said, were a part of this environment. And so I would be like, yes, I feel like with this question, I feel like that's changed for me. So I wonder, it really depends on where maybe you're at in your journey. Yeah, I agree. Does that change? And have you guys felt that personally yourself? I've only recently felt like I've gone through that. Recent is as in during the podcast, I've switched from this person who felt like I had to go to the gym to have great workouts and to feel that to now preferring. In fact, I'm in the middle right now of designing and building like this like ideal home gym. So I don't have to go to the gym. Yeah, it's interesting. So the data on this is pretty interesting. So I think fitness fanatics, which the three of us would fall in that category, right? We made it our career. That's what we do for a living. We love it. I don't think it plays as big of a role in someone like ourselves. Like you take somebody who loves working out, you can give them a garage gym, you can give them a gym down the street, a park, they might even drive an hour to get to a gym. I've had friends who've moved to really remote areas and had to drive 45 minutes to and back. And they did it consistently because they're fitness fanatics. This is far more important for the average person that doesn't fall in that category of fanaticism, which is, yeah, that's like over 95% of everybody. A very small percentage of us would work out no matter what. And then you've got the majority of us, the vast majority of us where this, when you look at the data on this, it actually makes a pretty big difference on consistency, which is the one thing you can really measure in these studies. They don't have good data on how much weight is lost or how great someone's results are. But what we have is data on consistency. Is this just the result of the kind of built-in accountability of like knowing there's people there, you know, and like people are going to see me? Like, cause I mean, you can kind of create that in a multitude of ways, but like, that's like a pretty straightforward way to approach it. Well, I used to think that, and I actually, I think what Sal's, I can see right now what Sal has listed up for the top three. And I think I strongly agree with all three of these. I would have in the past said what you just said, which is, I felt like that was a big part of it was like this. I see the same people and they're going to know I'm showing up and the energy of them lifting next to me. Like it was a vibe like where none of that is a factor where I currently go right now has none of that. In fact, the other, the top, the three that you have written here is every, is everything. I agree with you for people like us, but like, yeah, but I don't, I don't, when he said that, I don't relate to that. No, I relate more to the person than I relate to him. Yeah. But you're, you say that I'm a fitness fanatic. No, I'm not. You know what I am? I'm, I'm somebody who fell into this career and I loved that having this as a career gave me an extra accountability to stay healthy and fit. That's what I, how I feel compared now compared to the average person, your fitness fanatic. Look, you left this industry. You made three times as much money. You went back to this industry knowing you'd probably make a lot less money because you love it. You love fitness. You love working with people. You love the business. It's different, right? So I do love helping people. I, I, there's, I have found when I, and I didn't realize this until I left and pursued money that I realized how much fulfillment I got from helping others be healthier. And I also realized too, because remember I talk about that journey. I was the most unfit and unhealthy I'd ever been during that time. And so I also appreciated how much it was an accountability piece to myself. So I, I don't know. I feel like I connect more, believe it or not, with an average person than I do a fitness fanatic. I don't, I don't, I don't think of myself as a fitness fanatic. I'm also the guy who's always like, what do I always preach? Do as little as possible to elicit the most change. But I mean, okay, there's definitely a range of fitness fanatics, but you're not outside of the realm of people that, well, we tend to work in the industry. But the average person fitness for them is, it's an afterthought. It's what I do that my health, my doctor told me I need to work out. This is this thing I need to do. It's very difficult to be consistent. How do I do this right? And then they stop and they get back on. And so when you look at the data on that person, which is most people, what, what types of gyms or what things in gyms improve that consistency? Again, that's one of the best things. What are you wrestling with? I see you're wrestling with something right now. Yeah, no, just because I guess the point I'm trying to bring up is like, there's group classes are like a huge draw. Yeah, it's still a thing. It's still what people want to get involved in. It's because they want like, to feed off energy and create connections and community. Now, that's the same thing with Fitbit. Fitbit, like took off in comparison to all the rest of them, because they had a built in accountability community. And it's just still like a very powerful thing to consider when you're when you're thinking about people wanting to get into a gym stick with well, the gym industry has got a lot of data on this. So the gym industry itself is now a massive industry. And they've got a lot of data on what gets people to sign up, what gets people to stay and what gets people to leave. And they've really narrowed it down to three things. Two of them are pretty easy to identify. The last one is much more complicated. We'll probably spend more time talking about the last one than we are the first two. So here's the here's the three things that they've identified convenience, and then cleanliness, and then culture. So convenience, very basic, is it you know, is it within five miles away from for home or work, and they found actually a data on this, when it's more than that the the consistency drops off, if it's 10 miles away, believe it or not, which isn't that far to drive, you see far less consistency than when it's five miles away from home or work. So convenience is one 24 fitness did great studies on this. Remember when they were when they were really the leaders in big box gyms, one of the things they realized is we're gonna we're gonna put gyms within 10 miles of each other. Whereas the the early gym industry was like, why would I put another gym 10 miles down the street, I got one right here. 24 fitness said no, no, if we do like triangulate, we end up getting more memberships. And which proved to be true. Now you see that model with like Planet Fitness and other companies, they see this, they know this. cleanliness is one of the first things that'll get someone to cancel so you get it you go to a gym and it's dirty uh people will leave um now the third one is far more complex which is culture this one uh we've all experienced and i i know this for a fact i know this adam i'll speak to you because i know you've run clubs like i have we could walk into a club change nothing but the culture change nothing but the culture and the staff the gym's the same location's the same the equipment's the same everything's the same the difference is the staff which really drives the culture and within what 30 days yeah you would see 50 increase in traffic and people actually coming in to work out yeah there was a saying in the in the company that there's no such thing as bad clubs only bad managers that's right because there was and there's plenty examples even outside of our stories of you know clubs that were suffering you switch the manager who's the leader of the facility and instantly that becomes a top performing club and there wasn't like you changed the demographic or you change it wasn't even more average the average income of the person that was showing up there it was literally a shift in the culture the energy of the gym would be another way to say it um and that could would turn around revenue and consistency for the members so within weeks which is wild yeah um the best example i can give where in our industry there's you see trends all the time in our industry crossfit crossfit yeah prove this well because it's because it actually it shows you how powerful culture is because the first two actually are not it's not the most convenient or clean place it's a it's a dungeon it's just it's simple there's not a lot of equipment not at all air conditioning yeah it's kind of it's kind of grungy like grimy type of vibe yeah it's not a uh i mean of course there's examples of people that made fancy ones but for the most part the crossfit they were called boxes because they were just these little basic boxes without even air conditioning they were just these and a lot of them with simple equipment and they didn't have great workout programming which you know good coaches know yeah it wasn't even great workout program wasn't great equipment wasn't great gyms there was no air conditioning there's chalk everywhere yeah it's just the people there but they had culture yeah yeah they had culture which is a big factor it is and if you look at the data on consistency uh with uh the average person the thing that contributes the most to consistency is community it's wild it it trumps everything if you look at the data on consistency if you show up to a gym and you want to go there because you like going there because the staff is great because the members you work out with are great it's got a great vibe i guess that's the best way to describe it you walk in it's got a great vibe the odds you'll keep going are way higher than if you go into a gym with great equipment music so everything's good but you don't have that do you that's the best do you guys think that um since culture is the most unique one like you said convenience and cleanliness is pretty straightforward to direct in fact um i have the gym that i currently uh go work out at uh is the it checks these it's the closest thing to me so it's the closest thing to my house and it is very small very private and unknown um and actually relatively expensive for how small unknown and how minimal equipment is there but it's it's designed to be like a private place and so i love it for those two main reasons now it is different culture wise especially when you talk about commercial so do you think culture is different for each person like i think about the culture of uh you know the the gold's gym that i used to work out at when i was competing i see where you're going good question and you know the part of the the culture there that i loved during that time was different draw very motivating to walk in and see 10 other because it's not often you see super jacked people in a gym like you really don't most people in the gym look pretty normal average people yeah i mean at all times there was 10 other of my peers competing and training there that gave me this like yeah man i i thrived in that culture and i and i like that and heavy clanging weights and just hard training and i'm looking over like oh man he's staying here i'm gonna stay here like you just fit where i was at i have no desire to lift their reserve in fact what i love about this the culture is quiet yeah i walk in and there might be one other person inside the gym and and there's there's sometimes there's even not a front desk person so i walk in and i check myself in and i walk over to the always open treadmill that i walk on and warm up like and i actually like uh kind of being unknown and undercover and you know there's a there's a couple regulars that we see each other and hey man how you doing and it's like a small way and so that's a very different culture so do you think that part of this is uh maybe understanding who you are where you're at 100 yeah absolutely 100 i think uh the culture has to match basically it has to feel good to you it has to be a place that you want to show up to now for most people for most people what that looks like is a friendly staff that knows your name uh it's a lot of encouragement this is the average person we're talking about right lots of encouragement um and you start to recognize people and you show up because of those people that's typically what it feels like now the hard part is that you're not the only person that's you know fitness fanatics the bodybuilders the athletes they're probably going to want to be in a culture that drives them they're probably going to want to be in a culture that motivates them to you know get that extra rep uh to push themselves extra hard that's going to get them to want to be essentially squeeze out that extra one percent i could totally see that i could totally see being a competitive mindset walking into a facility that is a competitive culture which by the way okay okay uh this is part of why i think the form crossfit formula was so successful was because they built it around the games yeah they built it around there was this already a built-in competitive thing that even if you weren't going to be in the crossfit games you were doing the workouts that the athletes are doing so there's this competitive environment so you wanted to be against other you wanted to work out with other people that were working out to be competitive too which was something whether that was strategically planned or not had to play a massive role in that because you automatically create this so my my good because like you would never be name a crossfit athlete that would work out in a normal gym yeah no no no like my friend chuck uh good friend of mine he's a pastor at the church i go to uh he loves crossfit and i love to tease him about crossfit uh and you know we we always tease each other about stuff i'll give him like weird theology questions he asked me fitness and i we tease each other but i'm always like okay what is it about this crossfit gym that you go to that you like so much because uh you know i know there's better programming and there's better programming for him the whole deal and i said is it the competitive nature and he says i'm not trying to be a crossfit athlete i'm not trying to compete in the games he goes but uh when i go in there and i try hard everybody's really encouraging and so it's it's less about it's competitive but it's really about the encouragement you feel in the community as you're trying to do your best so it's less about for the average person i'm trying to be as good as that person over there although those people exist it's more about man i'm trying hard and i've never had anybody cheer for me he actually told me a story of how of his first time he did a murph which is that crazy yeah wad that they do and everybody was racing in it and he was one of the last people and he said everybody waited and was cheering him on as he was going he'd never experienced that before because all of his workouts before that were kind of on his own by himself type of deal it's like being on a team yeah exactly that's exactly right it's that community uh that that people get from there and culture if you look at all this stuff because notice i didn't say in here equipment notice i didn't say in here cost people will often say they're canceling a gym membership because of the cost but gym memberships are cheap in comparison to the other things that we spend money on all the time every gym membership is less than your cell phone bill nobody ever cancels a cell phone bill because of cost yeah the reason why they cancel their gym membership is because they don't see the value in the money that they're spending but when people are bought into a culture it's worth every penny and they stick around it's interesting to think about because too like i know crossfit was kind of like a big change and shift in the industry and then there was like all these subcultures that came out like you got power lifting gyms that were like i wonder how much that grew in itself because i've seen quite a few and i've and you know and i'm drawn to that somewhat just like you know if you're around competitors for bodybuilding or you know just to have these different kind of uh specified segments of fitness where people really like you know are passionate and they get into that type of style of training i i feel like you know we're kind of coming back to the general pop again and like we're trying to figure out like just getting people back in the gyms because you know it was like i feel like covid really disrupted that progress but it was cool once you started seeing all these like little subcultures pop yeah and the reason why i'm talking about this is i think when people shop for a gym i know this because i ran gyms what they look at is they look at convenience they look at equipment the flashy stuff i'm going to tell everybody right now on the podcast the flashy equipment all that equipment plays almost no role in your consistency i'm going to tell you that it's a fact for sure i have run gyms with the worst oldest equipment and we crushed because our culture in there was so awesome and then i've been in gyms that look spectacular and you feel the dead culture and you know that they struggle so so but people hear what they do they walk in oh my god it's got all this great equipment and the price is good this is the gym i want to join and i'm like oh my god this is the gym i want to join and i'm like oh my god this is the gym i want to that's not the decision. That's not how you should make your decision. What you need to do is go in there for a month month, walk in, work out. And if you say to yourself, I want to be there, I want to go there. So I like to be in there. I like to be around these people. I really like to be there. That's the predictor. The best predictor of consistency is that right there. It's not equipment and it's not even price. Everybody price doesn't play a huge role. Now it streams. It doesn't play a huge role. That's what the survey actually said. So to your point, I think is, I think the point you're making is a great point because the three C's are technically actually cleanliness, convenience, and cost. But what you're making the case for, I think is what will result in a better results for the person. So I'm going to throw a wrench in this conversation. Where is it or how does somebody determine that what they think is the right culture for them is actually a bad culture? And I'm going to use an example so I don't insult everybody else. I'll just insult you. Just don't insult me. That's fine. So, cause I know, I know this will be, this, this will be hard for a lot of people to see this. I know you, you are self-aware enough that you can. You know what you struggle with. You openly have discussed body dysphoria. So there's part of you that probably is, has got a natural draw to want to maybe even work out or be around like a bodybuilding culture. Like I like and, but would you say that's a good culture for you? No, no, no. I think for the average person and I'll go back to myself, I'm not avoiding it. I think for the average person, step one is a culture that makes you want to show up because consistency is the biggest problem. So before you get into, is this the right culture for me? Does it make me want to show up? Let's just start there. You show up for a while. Then you can ask yourself a question. Is this the right culture for me? But, but consistency is the biggest problem in fitness. We know this. It's, it's a subpar workout done consistently does better than the perfect workout done inconsistently. Now myself, for myself, the reason why a majority of my workouts are not done in bodybuilder gyms is exactly for what you're saying. I love the bodybuilder gyms, but when I spend too much time in them, uh, it's, I get too embroiled, uh, in that culture of trying to get as big and muscular as possible. And I know myself. And so 90, 95% of the time when I'm in a gym these days, it's more of a, like not really a country club, but more of that kind of style of gym. That's got other amenities, got a steam room. The average member, uh, is much older or families. Uh, and I, I do better in those because that culture is healthier for me. For sure. I like that you framed it that way because, uh, I do think that very divide in the audience is listening. We have people that listen to the show that are, are very inconsistent and are trying to build a routine and change and be healthy or just getting started on their journey. And so the fact that you framed it that way, I think is so good because I think you're right. Don't overcomplicate this. If it's something you enjoy and it, the culture is amazing and you're drawn to it to be, make you consistent, start there. Then the other half of our audience, if you want to label them, can really consistent people, whatever, how you want to label them. Have a come to Jesus talk. Yes. These are people who love us in the podcast. Been listening for years possibly, or maybe they just found it, but they've been working out for years consistently and they're drawn to a culture or a modality potentially not ideal for them. You're right. Yeah. I mean, I even like just listen to you guys. Like I, I would have like an itch to go, you know, some super competitive, like athletic or power lift chip. It's not going to be good for me. Not at all. And so, yeah, to your point, I would, I would steer more towards like a racquetball or like something with like leisurely activity attached to it and like more of a chill vibe. Yeah, no. And again, just to go back. Cause there's a ton of like CrossFit orange theory type of people listening right now. They're like, I see this is what I'm saying. I love this. These are people that call in who like, I've been doing orange theory for three years. I can't see results. I'm tired. What's going on. It's like, okay, good job on the consistency. We've got to get up with. Yeah. Because they've become so attached to the culture. It's no longer serving them. Yeah. Yeah. But step one is be consistent. Yeah. No, that's why the way you framed it was perfect because I don't, I also don't want, and I think this is a great way to talk about things like CrossFit and orange theory, because I know sometimes if you've been listening for a very long time, it could come off as if we're just bashing or hammering that. I said, listen, if someone's never worked out in their life before and they, their first year of working out, they spent a year of consistency at orange theory. I'm celebrating that. Like I'm not making that feel terrible. That it's a terrible, it's like, cause to your point right now, because that made them consistent. So great job. We started, okay, now let's evolve. Yeah. Now let's understand that you, you needed that motivation to get to the gym with the, of the community, the competitiveness of the CrossFit or whatever the thing goes, you've now built the habit. You've now reaped some of those benefits. You now consider yourself a person who works out. Now let's evolve and find the better routine for you. No different than how all of us are admitting right now about ourselves. I know that going to that, that bodybuilder gym right now is not the ideal focus for me in my life right now. I care way more about being a father, a partner, a business owner, a health and longevity. Those are all Trump looking like a bodybuilder. So what am I, why would I even put myself, but I know I am, I like that. And there's that edge to me so that I don't belong there. I don't belong there right now. Well, just to add to what you're saying, Adam, the, the, when you look at the facilities, with the best consistency, okay. So the ones that people go to as beginners or not fitness fanatics who end up sticking around and staying around for a long time, those facilities have the best combinations of the thing you said, the culture that gives them motivation, but also appropriate workouts. And what are those facilities? These are personal training studios, by the way, also the most expensive personal training studio, good training studios with good trainers are the most expensive of all of the categories we think of because personal training is done per session. You're not paying monthly. And if you do, it's expensive, but it's oftentimes per session to the tune of 50 to a hundred plus personalized. And I've been part of great personal training studios. I've owned one and I've been part of other ones. And I know of other ones, you want to talk about consistency, people go and they don't stop for years and years and years. And it's because of all those things that you listed. It's the best workout for them because it's individualized. They got a good trainer and it's a great culture and they just don't leave. So that's actually what I, I, I pay. A premium to be a member at a private studio. So that's what I'm, that's why it's a personal training studio. So yeah. So if you have a trainer, you're not paying a membership, but he allows a certain amount of memberships to be there. And he, he, he tries to deter people from wanting to do it by charging kind of an exorbitant amount. Like most people that are shopping for costs, we go like, this makes no sense. I can go up the road to fitness 19, get three times equipment open longer for a fraction of the price. Why would I pay that? Unless you appreciate exactly. Some of the things that you're saying right now is like, I appreciate the cleanliness, the convenience, the, the lack of people that are in there. Everybody that is training is training with a personal trainer, unless you're paying that exorbitant amount. Like I am just so I could have that. Like that is, I, I value that, you know, I value that a lot, right? That's awesome. Uh, I, um, I I've been reading more studies, uh, on the effects and impacts of probiotics and athletic performance, uh, fitness goals, fat loss, muscle gain, that kind of stuff. And it's really remarkable. I mean, because, uh, these studies are all coming back showing that there is an impact, a positive impact that this supplement, that supplements that contain the right strains of bacteria, good probiotics are performance enhancing supplements. It's pretty wild in particular endurance and strength. So I looked up the mechanisms. I'm like, what's going on here? Cause we've speculated on some of this stuff. Like, you know, we work with, we work with seed. So seed is a probiotic company. It's one of the best ones in the world. It's the one, only one that we promote. And we've also since gotten messages from people who said, well, I was taking it for gut health, but I think I'm noticing strength gains and stuff from it. Uh, cause I heard you talk about these studies. Um, and it's legit. So I looked up, what are the theories? Like, what is it about these? Cause you know, the microbiome does so many things. It's probably, there's a million different ways we can speculate as to how taking a probiotic would make you stronger. Uh, but here's some of the, here's some of the theories. It says better amino acid availability can theoretically support muscle synthesis when training and protein intake are already in place. So by a healthy microbiome or using the right, uh, probiotics can take your current protein intake and just make it more effective. That's one other proposed pathways include lower inflammation and oxidative stress and gut muscle signaling via short chain fatty acids. So in other words, when you look at the data on, uh, how they affect, let's say muscle gain, there's a small effect on building muscle, but there's a larger effect. On strength. So it just might be that taking a probiotic like seed is getting your CNS to fire your CNS, fire a little bit, fire more effectively. And it's not a stimulant. It's not caffeine. Does it raise your heart? It's good for you. How wild just shows you how integral the gut is. Well, don't you guys feel like part of why this is so wild, so crazy and surprising is because we always, we, we, we grew up in Western medicine, right? That's what we, and the studies are all that way. And so we, we have this very, uh, isolated approach the way that we do studies and we look at things, uh, rightfully so, right. I'm not the, the, bashing on it per se but it's it seems a little obvious to me because all of our systems work synergistically together that if you did something to improve any of those systems in this case we're talking about like digestive system in a healthy positive way that it would impact the other systems we see examples like we talk about other studies right now that are so fascinating wild like uh mitochondrial health things taking a supplement or red light therapy that improves mitochondria which is the engine in your cells we talked about this the other day and then oh my goodness it also improved like no shit it's like it's kind of obvious that and and really what makes it so profound is you know a probiotic is that useful or that helpful i think to your digestive system that it has that it not only does it help that but has even carry over into the other systems but it seems a little it's kind of obvious to me yeah and probiotics in general might even be more beneficial for athletes than other categories yeah well too i mean think about athletes and their performance in general like and how that affects like uh their performances so to be able to now crank up the ability to to fire more effectively by just adding in you know probiotics that's a whole nother factor well especially since athletes are so fine-tuned that one percent in any direction is such a massive thing well it's more like this uh chronic gut inflammation is higher in athletes than it is in the average person is it the inflammation it's because you're such high stress you're training hard yeah you're training hard all the time yeah you're always you're always always yeah you're always you're always tipping over into the too much yeah so like what are they so leaky gut syndrome what do they call it now intestinal wall permeability or something like that i think that's a medical term but leaky gut syndrome it's actually relatively common in comparison to the the the normal populace it's it's it's more common in athletes yeah because the inflammation how hard they push themselves to train stress and not poor diets you know you know what uh i'm glad you brought this it's been a while since we've talked about this and i was just talking to a was a family member or a friend of mine i don't remember who it was i was trying to explain a leaky gut and um why it can be so elusive to people because at least in my experience i see two two common things uh one either one it's a food that person has eaten forever their whole life and so they just assume that they have no issue with it which by the way if it's something that you eat regularly or your whole life and you pair that with an athlete who's pressing stress levels it's more likely it'll be a food like that correct like it's like you're exposed to it more exactly you're exposed to it more frequently all it takes is a time where that gut lining is vulnerable i guess is one is with for a lack of a better term uh vulnerable and then that food that you eat so regularly gets through into the bloodstream and now your body like yeah so it's hyper permeability so your your gut is permeable um it's a smart uh barrier that allows the right things to go in and the wrong things to go in and the wrong things to go in and at the right time it's very complicated but it's hyper permeable uh because of inflammation um or let's say your mucosa lining is deteriorated or you know you've got you know dysbiosis right you got bad bacteria overgrowth in your gut um things get through when they shouldn't and the way that the body can sometimes respond to that is by creating an immune response so you always eat eggs let's say and you've got some gut inflammation going on for whatever reason uh suddenly your body now becomes intolerant to egg proteins because of the hyper permeability your body now mounts an immune system an immune response because it's it's picking up these proteins where it shouldn't be and they're like four nanometers yeah well and then also to add to that why this is so tricky and can be elusive and hard to explain to people is sometimes or at least what i've experienced is there's it's a spectrum at how how tolerable or intolerable your body is yeah so maybe somebody and this is why so i feel like sometimes it's so difficult to get somebody to understand this so let's use your egg example i've been eating eggs my whole i eat 10 eggs a day every day for my whole life um now all of a sudden you're there's something going on but you don't connect it to the eggs because you just kind of have this you know eggs are fine yeah eggs are fine i eat them every day but you you tend to always have this like low level systemic inflammation going on or gut issues and you're not attaching it to the eggs because you've ate eggs your whole entire life and this has just recently showed up and you're not attaching it to the eggs because you've ate eggs your whole entire life and you're not attaching it to the eggs because you've ate eggs your whole entire life and up say three months ago or a year ago or whatever like that and that's always been consistent with you but what you don't realize is that's what it is um that is really difficult and then eggs are healthy right and so that's the other layer to this is just like you know we just assume it's going to be ice cream or it's going to be one of the obvious things um but i i see that a lot and again because it's on a spectrum you know it maybe it's somebody who doesn't have like you know like you had like very severe like exam like you were it was easy for you to point out i would say easy but you you it actually took a while dude i i when i figured it out so this is when my gut was at its worst it was eggs nuts legumes dairy um yeast uh and um let's see what's the last one it was and gluten so those were the things that i was reactive to some of them more than others dairy was immediate the other ones were a little less um after you know healing my gut and doing all the right stuff which took a long time because i had to figure out you know what was going on and i was like oh my god i'm going to die i'm going to die now i can have all of them except for gluten if i have it too many days in a row will mess me up dairy i gotta stay away from but eggs and legumes uh you know nuts like no problem anymore so you can reverse yourself out of some of those things and and and to your point right there you can be on a spectrum on those things because i feel like that's where i am with some foods like i can gluten i'm i'm definitely more sensitive uh to that fact i just did this uh last night and it was a wild reminder because it had been so long um my my diet's been pretty dialed i hadn't eaten a random place of pizza i had four slices too which is a lot for me i haven't done something like that in a long and man i just looked like a bullet and i because i've been telling you how much inflammation has been down for me like i've been because of the the uh microdosing trisepatide and my diet's been dialed i've really noticed my inflammation has come i got a hold of that really well for like over a month and a half two months now and i've i've felt so good about it and i've felt so good and this was like kind of the first time i had pushed something uh like out of bounds like that and i had gluten and i had a lot of it and it was like instantly like later that night i went oh my god like here's that inflamed feeling and look but i i also know that i have been numb to that because it wasn't like i didn't like i wasn't like on the toilet or i wasn't like oh like especially eating a little every day you're kind of swollen every day yes so that that's what i mean like i've i've kind of always had a little bit of there so it's like you're and that's what i mean by when we communicate this it's really hard because some people have this kind of this low level of systemic inflammation because they're consistently kind of allowing something that their body's intolerable i'll tell you what like because i listed the common ones but i would say 90 of the time this this is probably gonna anger some people and i don't know why this is such a contentious topic but 90 of time when i had a client eliminate gluten they felt better yeah nine out of ten times i'm you know i can think of one person that's why i'm saying 90 where it didn't make a difference everybody else noticed less pain more energy less inflammation less water retention just it's just one of those that i think most people do better avoiding some people can eat it so but i think a lot of people do a lot better can but i think some most people are just kidding themselves i that's what i think it is i think it's most like i could go do it you know what i'm saying but then i just have this like low level i get swollen like you do yeah oh man especially if i do now you know i notice it now way more where i don't think i ever noticed because you tell me i come to work and i was like well you've been eating gluten buddy oh i hate that yeah no it's remember we came back from england we were in the uk and i was having beer and i was having bread yeah uh and we were just we were there for like two weeks and i was like on a daily basis i was having and then flying too and then flying and then we interviewed uh jordan peterson and i watched that interview and i'm like whoa whoa dude yeah let's talk about that i wonder too if there's something there i don't is are are we more aware of it or is there also something to be said about because you've you've now pulled it out and you've eliminated it for long enough then you become like ultra sensitive when you go back to it like is is there is there so is there two different things going on i don't know i don't know but i do know if i have some i just have it once and i could tell i hold a little bit well that's why last night it was like obvious to me it was just like instantly like a couple hours later i went up to the bathroom went oh my god like it was so wild to me how much yeah physical change i can see but not like i said i what's you see and here's where it's deceiving i've been so moderate to low calorie that it didn't uh my digestive system didn't go like yeah i was able i was able to to process it right i wasn't like on the toilet or messed up from it but i could see the just the inflammation like all throughout my whole my face my body everywhere i was just like wow and it wasn't until the morning time that i see that pass or whatever but i just think that so many people walk around to kind of close the loop on this whole conversation from what you're saying is like and this is my point about how this body systems all affect each other and then you have you struggle with building muscle and losing body fat and you you know you consistently have a lot of stress at work and you going through it with uh your spouse right now or have teenage kids or whatever but like all those little things compounding and then you just and and because it's eggs it's a healthy food you can't wrap your brain around why am i not seeing the results why am i not losing the body fat why am i not able to build integrated yeah to your point it's like all these systems need to be able to play nicely with each other and if one is off it's like the whole system's gonna suffer well what happens is and there's this is some of the stuff i hate about fitness media is you'll get people on fitness media who say it's about the calories and the macros and so cutting those foods out isn't going to make you leaner and it's like look if it makes you feel better if you're less inflamed if it positively affects your hormones which all of those things can be true by eliminating foods that you're really reactive to then it will help with fat loss it will help through your behaviors oh well it'll help through your exercise your movement how you feel it will help the way you sleep it'll help which which helps all those things right there and it's which i think as i this is i feel like i'm an old man when we talk about stuff like this i've lately we talk so much about sleep you know and i feel like anybody who gets north of 40 can relate you know maybe if you're 30 you're rolling your eyes right anything that uh i do that impacts my sleep positively negatively impacts all those everything all those things so much more i mean uh my joints don't bother me the same in my workouts i've got better energy the next day i mean it's just my libido i mean all the things improve simply just by getting better night's sleep and one of the number one things that can disrupt a good night's sleep is shitty digestion before i go to bed you know or inflammation going on like that's wakes you up in the middle of the night so it's like this idea of like oh it's just simply calories in calories out it's like well it's not that simple um there's more going on than just that there's nothing like getting woke up in the middle of the night because your digestion's messed up that's the most frustrating or do you do what i do if that happens not often but if that happens to me i uh stubbornly lay in bed i'm like it's gonna go away and just draw it out i do something drastic yeah right away it's coming out one end oh god i get up and try to do air squats try and move it in the house i mean in the room yes dude just trying to wake up what the hell yeah well it doesn't happen to me a lot but there's been times i've told you guys recently last time was actually at a hotel was where i ate late in bed i told you guys that it was late at night and it was just i could like i was so bad i was keeping up i had to get up and i'm like i gotta move i gotta move these calories you know what's really frustrating this just happened this happened to me recently i didn't realize this i we were at a restaurant and we were ordering food and you guys know me and french fries like i gotta love french fries love french fries any fried potato for me is like my favorite thing and uh i see in the menu it says a side of french fries and it says underneath gluten-free available i'm like french fries where the hell's the gluten yeah what are you adding here you know what a lot of places do and it dawned on me there are definitely places well i'll eat the french fries and i don't feel so good the next day and i think it's the oils oh the oils no so it's not like some batter yeah it is yeah you ever have french fries that seem to have a little bit of like a crust on us yeah dude they freaking put them in flour before they fry sneaky bastards those really yeah dude it happens all the time it happens all the time because i'm thinking potato is gluten-free bro how dare you i'm thinking back true look that up how common is as dipping fries and i think it's more common than you know yeah so you ever eat really good french fries and they're really good and they got a little bit of the crust on them that's what it is well you're you're hitting on something that's interesting to me because there's definitely times where i've ate fries and felt totally fine there's other times i've ate fries and felt like shit so now i feel like i'm gonna ask every time like you know some kind of oil i just assumed it was i thought it was because of the oil and yes that could also not make you feel good but now that i know that there's putting flour in them yeah very common very common no coated it with flour or starch no shit yep to give their fries an extra crispy exterior and prevent them from getting soggy see scroll down look at wheat flour often used for heavily battered super lame season curly fries oh it's my favorite oh it makes me so mad fries are so good so mad i love wow well bro i cannot i did not know that yep you just gotta go but it makes so much sense because i can literally think of like so many times where i've had french fries where they just went down so easily yeah no problem and then other times were just like i think it was that just sat on me i think it was cheesecake factory i think that's where i was that sounds like a place i would do it yeah yeah that place is you know i think in and out watch it does it normal i think no in and out fries are i could eat a million baskets of those yeah and it feels like it feels that way right so that's probably what i mean that makes so much sense now because there's definitely times and you know what ones that are it's always those big fat crispy ones yes dude yeah and i love curly fries if i see curly fries on the menu i'm going for it not anymore god damn dude you just totally blew my mind right now it really i listen it ruined my day when i read that well i mean actually it's exciting though because i it's always pissed me off that it's like this i felt like i'm rolling the dice when i have french fries sometimes because sometimes i'm like it's they don't bother me at all now you're going to be that that that door that's going to say well are the fries i think now that you said now that you've described it and you said it i think i can guess i don't think i need to ask i think i think it's pretty obvious the ones that are probably doing that you know and it's probably just celiac like oh no i just like i get a little gassy yeah you want to punch yourself yeah be that guy yeah i just blame it on my wife my wife wants to know this uh roll my eyes real quick you know allergies you know wives yeah you know what i mean all right here's the fries i'll take them i thought they were for her anyway hey uh i i want to bring up something really interesting that i read about there's this famous study done in the 1980s they call it the famous nun study like none like like a catholic nun okay yes dude uh and it's really cool so this famous nun study is it like one related to you know i don't know i don't know sex and not having sex no no no no it was related to brain health oh so here's what they did here's what they did i don't know why you said that what do you mean why that's a that's a person definitely abstains yeah i mean i would think that's what the study would be on when so it was a study what's unique to them yeah that is that's why that's that's not the only thing that's unique so it was it was a longitudinal study on aging and alzheimer's disease by the way i sent it to max lugavere he wasn't familiar with it like dude you got to check this out it's really cool now what's cool about it is that it's not just a study it's not just a study it's a study is that uh you know when you study a bunch of people by the way this was a large study i think there were 678 sisters uh that were in this what's difficult about studies is you have wildly different lifestyles among people typically yeah so you get a lot of controls to figure out like what is it is it this is it that when you have a bunch of nuns a lot of that is controlled they live very similar lives very similar diets living conditions education lifelong habits none of them all know children yeah yeah so it's a great study to look at brain aging and what's going on and so they found a couple things but one thing really blew me away so trip off this so i'll read that i'll read uh from a article in the study is there a way we can kind of guess i want to guess what's well this one right here tripped me out this is why i sent it to max lugavere okay some sisters stayed mentally sharp into extreme old age even though their brains were full of the plaques and tangles that define alzheimer's oh interesting the best known example is sister mary who scored well on cognitive tests at age 101 and died shortly afterwards her brain showed abundant alzheimer pathology so she if you look at her brain like oh she's got really bad alzheimer's crushed cognitive tests interesting so they this is an there's an idea that came out of this which is that a lifetime of education and mental activity can help build a reserve that lets the brain keep functioning despite damage so it's like an adaptation because of her activity because of all the things that she did they listed things like prayer uh they listed things like uh you know meditation and doing things for other people and very active even though her brain had all of the signs of alzheimer's she cognitively cognitively scored well isn't that crazy now i thought the plaques were because the plaques they've they've attributed because they're always trying to look for like some you know something that's common a commonality that you find and then i thought that they they somewhat kind of dismissed the plaque a little bit they they there's it's definitely alzheimer's has the plaques yeah okay and it shows up they think it plays a role now the dismissal came from like all these pharmaceutical companies creating drugs to stop the plaque but they didn't work very work yeah oh that's what it was yeah they're trying to just address the plaque there's other theories around it but it's definitely a hallmark of alzheimer's and so some theories are like is it a protective net like what's going on nonetheless here you have uh some some of these nuns who for all intents and purposes because as part of the study they donated uh their brain so they could get tested afterwards it's like oh my god she should have had so it's like active tissue because they've still been working that makes me isn't that wild yeah that makes me want to see like other examples of like um say maybe professions or hobbies that people have that really like change challenge the brain yeah and then like is there like a much lower rate of alzheimer's or dementia with with yeah with that that type of person right like think of uh i mean uh example somebody who does like crossword puzzles their whole life or something like that does that does that make well the the biggest predictor when it comes to that or social uh social networks and a vibrant social life which all of these nuns had right because they're in they're with other sisters they're never lonely they're with each other um and so when you look at the data loneliness is a huge factor now did none of them have it uh no no no some of them developed alzheimer's with symptoms some of them didn't um but was This was, that was just one of the more remarkable things is they looked at her brain and said that she should have had all these symptoms. but she she did very well they also found that so they had they followed them for a long time so this is another yeah but was that was that like so then you you shared one example yeah there were a couple like that okay there were a couple like that okay um she was just the most she was the most pronounced right right right and then they also found that uh because they followed them for a while sisters whose autobiographies showed low idea density this is like fewer distinct ideas packed into their sentences were far more likely to develop alzheimer's later so when they were young based off how they wrote uh if it was lower in what they call idea density so ideas packed into their sentences is essentially complex uh writing lower amounts of that had higher rates of alzheimer's later on how would you how would you how would you give an example of that uh maybe we could look that up description in detail because that's all i yeah i think so i think it really has more actually adjectives no i'm serious i bet it's measured like that like this person used uh 500 adjectives for every something thousand words yeah that's a good question i mean how else would you how else would you describe or measure or describe that in a on a study i feel like i don't know maybe we could look it up doug what is idea density and writing and see uh what it says is your computer freeze yeah i did uh so yeah how much information or meaning is packed into a text okay so so there's two ways two main ways lexical density the range of information is packed into a text okay so so there's two ways two main ways lexical density the ratio of important content words to grammar words and creative density how many layers of plot emotion and subtext are built into your writing yeah so that's really super clear you better hurry we better hurry up and retire adam forgets what what are we doing hey hey bro it's whoever gets that first for sure are you guys gonna like like oh for sure are you gonna prank me for sure oh yeah that's mean yeah yeah that's so i feel like you would to me so that's i have to hey remember remember you gave me your car yeah yeah yeah i did yeah you can always give me me because your concussions yeah i don't know i would fail this one well yeah it's like it's in my family too i'm like always like you know trying to stay ahead of that but it's like dude at some point i'm just gonna start forgetting everything you know what i don't think so you know why because since i've known you you've only gotten smarter it's true it's true since i've listened to you you've only gotten smarter you've only gotten smarter you've only gotten you talk and since we've had conversations i mean you've gotten started right here but i mean it's you're like a little bar that's such a shit sandwich i didn't say that i mean you were borderline retarded when we first met i seriously was gonna put a helmet on you dude i thought this was adam's special needs friend you're out of range now you're you're safe no that's that's not what i meant no you've only gotten better dude with your verbal fluency i would think uh i was doing this actually would be really good what i was having to communicate with you on a podcast like this i think you're right would probably be really good for us uh to to help prolong that i hope yeah i hope so it kind of forces the issue you know it's like yeah we gotta work well whichever one goes first the rest of us will take okay well yeah we got make a pact yeah we'll take care of you yeah do you think we've been i don't think have we increased for verbal fluency or do you think we just got more comfortable uh and are they independent of each other uh i mean i talked to you guys off air too so i don't think you've changed i think justin and i was you guys are both smarter you guys are both a lot yeah i think you got dumber your voice is totally different dude oh my god i heard like an episode from way back did i tell you that did we tell you that oh yeah who was in here uh that oh it was cole cole played like like one of our yeah you sound like number four episodes so he comes in and he goes hey he goes how do i get better at podcasting so we're like just in our lives you just gotta do a lot of it that's all we did we don't have students just keep going bro so i said you gotta listen he's like because how did you guys get so good or whatever which was a nice compliment but i said you know why don't you go listen to whatever old episode so you can feel better about yourself so he pulled up episode like 50 yeah and hit play on his phone first of all i was gonna leave the room bro first of all none of us sound the same no all of our voices got low of us all of us you did you i did all of us yeah so i don't know if that's just as you get older your your your throat bros i don't know no i think it's that's the calmness no bro your voice is calm no bro your voice is calm no bro your voice is calm no bro your voice sounds different you sound like a kid i feel like yours really sounds different yeah all of us do really yeah dude listen to it just just in two just in two yes yeah it did change yeah doug look this up does a man's voice get old to get lower or change as he gets older i mean not like howard stern you put on like 75 pounds of muscle since then so that'll that'll that'll make a difference on your throat alone yeah dude your neck grew you lost 75 pounds so it typically deepens it gets lowered okay obviously during puberty but uh but as men reach older adulthood their voice voice actually tends to become higher pitch well oh that didn't happen we're not done with puberty is that what's happening wow i i think it's more of a weird comfort i think there is a low level i think there's a low level of anxiety or stress underlining our voices you start talking like this yes you're like ew i'm annoying and you're like like calm down i mean at this point i mean god how many what are we at doug two thousand three thousand something like that like it's just uh it's it is no different than having a conversation with you just you guys yeah early on i you know we did a good job of of pretending that you know or or make trying to figure that out but i think that what you hear that at least my opinion is that is just us just relaxed yeah i'll pose one more theory which is our recording environment has changed a lot since oh yeah it's improved yeah so i mean better sound deadening maybe the equipment's better that we're using uh who knows you know when we're done here i'm gonna pull up episode yeah i don't the reason the reason why i don't like that theory is that you can tell even like in sal and i's like early youtube videos which is our voice is different yeah and then you compare well we're using the same recorder though no no no i'm yes when we do a shoot out here it's no different yeah uh than the first ones to the newest ones yeah yeah so what do you say well so maybe maybe the playback speed was a little different or something like that i don't know no it's a it's a very distinct yeah yeah yeah man yeah no it is different well if it keeps going our voice is supposed to be going higher i don't think so i can't i can't imagine that that's what the computer said think about it though well at the very least it just it just disproves that that's the reason why though because we're getting older that shouldn't have anything to do with it i definitely think it's when you're anxious uh there's it definitely changes i mean google that i mean if you're uh anxious does that have if a man is anxious does his voice raise yeah an octave yeah and so i think that i guess that that's that might be true right like picture a dude who's like like he's like a big dude well i don't i wish i do you remember yes a man's voice can go out see so i this is what i think i think that we've had i mean at least uh personally i know that there was a time and we were at this studio still yeah i'm buying into your theory where i uh you know i lose my train of thought and i could feel myself get super anxious like like seriously so so but i can't tell you i can't recall when that left i just it's been a long time now but we were here still so it was it was within the lot what it's been we've been here for almost what nine eight or nine years now how long we've been here here uh 10 years 10 here uh in october just posted up there look at doug trying to call us out testosterone increases the size of your vocal cords we are on trt now okay i've been the whole time so i've been since i've been the whole time you're on less i'm on less so that doesn't fly yeah so you're wrong again doug well so the theory was that men's vocal cards actually become more thin as they get older that's why their voice goes up yeah however with more testosterone i don't know why they will you become thicker we googled what i said and it confirmed i'm the only we've all thrown out ideas none of ours have been confirmed i snore now i think it makes the sense well it's because you're fat yeah if you get fat like look that one up you can hear that in someone's voice like if you listen to biggie like whiskey you don't i don't need to look at a picture of biggie you hear his voice you're like oh he's obese oh yeah yeah he's got that sound that's fair yeah yeah he's got that heavy it's all yeah i know for sure that i think that we all were even you as comfortable as you you are with with you've always been with talking on camera and all those things yeah i think you've even settled into you yeah sure way more sure way more i mean at least from my perspective of watching you yeah and i know what i have felt personally with uh you know having moments like that i haven't had a moment like that in years and you know probably seven eight years but i do remember even being here like there'd be times we'd be talking and i'd be like oh i lost my train of thought yeah and then and inside the anxiety of like filling the gap where I just, I don't have any of that. Yeah, now I just forgot what I was going to say. Yeah, I forgot what I was going to say. I want to mention something to people before we transition. There is a lot of misinformation on social media now about peptides. A lot. It wasn't like this before. It's gotten bad. But now I'm seeing all this content on peptides and how to use them and where to get them. And this is because they're popular. And I have friends, I have friends that get their peptides from God knows where. Anyway, if you want to be in a community that, where you can learn about peptides, where there are medical professionals who are in there, also who pop in to answer questions. We have a community on the school app. So it's school with a K, so school.com slash mindpumphormones. And you'll be in a community where you can ask questions and get good information. So the audience knows this is what's replacing our old Facebook forum. Yeah, we got rid of that. And the reason is it was such a headache because of how much misinformation around peptides and how much it's starting to get regulated and how many eyeballs are on it. Facebook starts regulating all the things that you say and not say. And so we were constantly getting flagged in our own private forum with conversations that we're having about peptides because they're starting to crack down on that, that we were having to go, we would shut down, and then we had to go back and explain what it was, and then we'd get back. Yeah. And it was just, we did that so many times. We finally said, we need to pull off this forum so we can control the conversation completely, which that's what's cool about school, which is also exciting because there's a lot of things that we'd have to skirt around that we couldn't say or couldn't talk about because it would get removed from Facebook, and we knew that. And so we can have way more open dialogue inside this. And so I'm actually really excited about it. And school has lots of ways to pen the conversations and webinars and content. And so I'm really excited to build this out. And so it's going to be an incredible community. And if you like the forum that we had on Facebook, it's only going to be better than that. And so, and if you were looking for that on Facebook, the reason why you can't find it anymore is because it's getting shut down. Typical children's vitamins are basically candy in disguise. Haya is different. It's made with zero sugar, zero gummy junk. It fills in the most common gaps in modern children's diets to provide a full body of nourishment that our kids need. It's non-GMO, vegan, dairy-free, allergy-free, gelatin-free, nut-free, and everything else you can imagine. It's designed for kids of all ages and sent straight to your door so parents have one less thing to worry about. It's the only multivitamin for kids that we here at MindPump support. Look, we know that the typical diet is lacking key nutrients, and this is especially true for children. Kids' food is nutrient deficient. Fill those gaps with Haya. Go to Haya.com. HayaHealth.com slash MindPump. On that link, you'll get 50% off. Back to the show. Our first question is from Anushka B. I'm 150 pounds and squat 80 kilograms with seven to nine reps, or 60 kilograms for 15 reps. I'm struggling to progress with this. What is the best way forward? FYI, I'm on a deficit following a one-year bulk. Well, that's the. Well, that. You're on right there as a bulk. And you're strong. So you're. You're already pretty damn strong, and we're in a deficit right now. Really, really tough. So when we see examples of somebody who progresses in strength while in a caloric deficit, it's normally newbie gains. That's the most common time you'll see. Otherwise, I am never seeing myself get stronger in a calorie deficit. No, the best you can hope for in a calorie deficit is a better strength-to-weight ratio. Right. Okay, but to get stronger total strength, like weight on the bar. Not happening. in a deficit. Pull-ups or dips, it'll feel a little better. Exactly, bodyweight exercise. And I'm assuming that we're speaking to a female client right here. As a female who's already squatting 180 kilograms, what, 160, 170, 170 pounds? No, I think it's less than that. It's like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it's 2.2 times 80. That's 160 to 170. Yeah, 2.2, you're right, you're right. It's more than 170. You're really strong. You're very strong already, especially for their weight. They're only 100. So that's good weight that you're already. And for. That's seven to nine reps, so we're not talking about. a PR weight. No. So this person's probably able to squat 200 pounds for a single. I mean, that's true, because the stronger you get, the harder it is to make strength. Yeah, 176 pounds for seven to nine reps. It's really good. Which means you're. I'm assuming. You're already squeezing your potential. You could probably squat 200 pounds for a PR for a single. Yeah. At that bodyweight, in a deficit, is extremely impressive. I'll say this. Look, if you really want to hit PRs, you want to get on a program designed to hit PRs, and then you want to be in a surplus. Yeah. So eat in a surplus, follow MAPS Powerlift. Powerlift. MAPS Powerlift is specifically designed to hit PRs, squat, bench, and deadlift. That plus a surplus, and you see your numbers go up. I'm glad you said that, because I don't want to discourage this person that you can't ever hit PRs again. It's just that you have to be realistic with where you're at. That's right. You're at peak strength. Not peak. You're at the top end of strength for your size, probably already, and you're also in a deficit. The likelihood that you're going to PR anything is. Very unlikely. Next question is from MKZ. When choosing a sauna, is traditional or infrared better? Have there been studies done showing one gives more benefits than the other? Oh, I like this question. Yeah, so the studies done on saunas, the best studies, the ones that get quoted often, where they say things like. Traditional. Yeah, they reduce all-cause mortality by 40%, right? The famous Finnish study were done on traditional saunas. So traditional saunas get your body hot through the temperature, inside the sauna, and they're much hotter. They get up to 180, 185 degrees, sometimes hotter, sometimes as low as 170, but they get pretty darn hot. Infrared saunas use infrared light that penetrates the body and raises body temperature and can cause a lot of sweating. But the temperature of an infrared typically goes up to, what, 120? 145. 145 is high there? Yeah. So it's lower. Although, by the way, our friends over at Plunge have an infrared that actually goes up to 120 degrees. It gets up to 175, I believe, which is the hottest infrared sauna I've ever seen. A lot higher than normal. Now, Sal covered the science side of it. I want to cover my personal experience of owning several of all of these. I've had three infrareds, and I'm now on my first traditional. I love the traditional one so much better for multiple reasons. It gets up to temperature way faster. When I had the infrared. When I had the infrareds, they took an hour to get up to that, just to 145. So they're not even getting up that high. Then to get it up to its peak temperature, I had to wait almost an hour to get it to there. And then when I get in it, because it's a dry infrared heat, it took 20 minutes before I broke my first sweat. And then I'm 30 plus minutes in before I feel like I'm really sweating, which, I mean, you're still getting other benefits of the infrared. I get it. But it was such a commitment for that time to get those. Where the traditional one, by five minutes in, I've timed it. Five minutes in, I am dripping in sweat, and it's ready to go within 15 minutes. I personally look. All the studies that are done on VO2 Max, the studies that are done on longevity, they use traditional saunas. So there's some arguments I've heard made for infrared for detox because it kind of penetrates in the body. But the detox happens through the sweat. And you sweat to back you up faster in tradition. I think if you have a choice, go traditional. That's where all the studies go. Traditional and then get your red light benefits from a red light panel. Yeah. Outside of that. Yeah. You know, shame. I mean, this is plunge. I'm such a fan of their sauna. And I'm not getting paid to say this. It's how much I love their sauna because it has the hot rocks in it. And so I can also pour water over it if you like the steam. Make it a little wetter. I love that. Yes. And so if you. And aromatherapy, if you like that, I like that too. And so I'm getting. And you're getting all of that in a traditional sauna. You're not getting that in an infrared sauna. So I'm way more a fan of that. And plunge has an incredible product. Next question is from Coach E. Kong, DFW. If your philosophy is that muscles grow through rest, how do bodybuilders train up to six to seven times per week, sometimes multiple times per day, and still end up as some of the largest specimens we've seen? Is that down to steroid use or is there something else I'm missing? This is not our philosophy. I love how this was phrased. It's a philosophy. It's based on science. Yeah, yeah. This is science. This is actually how it works. Let me add this, okay? So like a subtle dig. Yeah, that was exactly. Weird philosophy. Based off of your theory. Recovery is part of this. Muscles build in the recovery process. Okay, look. Here's the deal. By the way, they do not. They don't build at all, okay? Let's make this clear. This is not a theory of ours. When you were. That you were stressing the body when you're training, okay? You were stressing it. It's what happens after. Yeah, it's what happens after. By the way, that follows the entire adaptation process of everything in your body. The sun is. It's like the sun itself isn't tanning your skin in the moment. It's irritating. Yeah, exactly. It's irritating. It's the adaptation process, the recovery process that tans your skin. You're forcing it to change. Okay, so here's the deal. First off, we're picking a subset of people who lift weights who happen to be the best in the world at building muscles. So you're talking about a group of people who are extremely genetically made for bodybuilding. You can call it gifted if you want, but they are made to be bodybuilders. This is the 0.001% of the population. So that's number one. So their bodies, genetically, or maybe a teenager, you saw it. - Yes, in extreme, I mean, you could see pictures of Jay Cutler when he was 16 he's more muscular than i've ever been in my phil heath playing basketball in high school and not look like a bodybuilder already right so so that's number one so their bodies are extremely sensitive and they recover quickly and they build muscle quickly that's number one number two they are on lots of steroids on top of it which also enhance recovery and adaptation yeah and all kinds of things that being said you look at all athletes i don't want to say all athletes but most athletes bodybuilders train the least out of most athletes okay they just do why because they can't train as much as other athletes because they over train even bodybuilders find that they can't go in the gym for four hours at a time whereas when you play other sports you're practicing that's right hours at a time isn't isn't this too they found uh where's that place over in dubai where it was really it was about the consistency the rest the the nutrition yes dialed in like and that was all accounted for they had way better results i'm gonna tell you something you follow a pro bodybuilder during his day uh during the day when they're especially when they're 90 percent of his eating and rest it's you they work out in the morning they do nothing else for the rest of the day they're at home they're eating they might do a little cardio they're resting they're eating eight times in a day they might go back to the gym for a little bit in the evening even these guys uh who are so genetically gifted on tons of anabolic steroids train less than the average athlete such a good such a good analogy sal uh because anybody who's uh you know read kobe bryant's story knows about michael felt the amount of training volume those guys are doing for their sport to be the highest level at their sport is insane because they're training bryant is famous for saying he put four hours in a practice before everybody else got to practice got there yeah and then he'd do it again with all of them and no bodybuilders do that you can't you can't a bodybuilder can't do their sport for four hours a day every day and and build muscle it wouldn't work but they can do it six to seven times a week for an hour maybe two hours a day contest they'll throw in some walking and then they and then they take uh copious amounts of drugs that enhance the ability to build and recover by the way a lot of steroid stacks are are designed for recovery recovery they already lift more off yes yeah enhance that that is part of the the growth hormone the echo poises and decas like these things are used for the recovery process yep and so that's like a big part of their their steroid stack is also to enhance that so yeah no this is not a philosophy this is how it works uh yeah you're you're comparing to and also if you look at if you i don't care who you are by the way i can make this and i can bet money on it whoever wrote this you do not have the genetics of a pro bodybuilder so even if you if you copy the routine you're going to fry yourself it ain't going to work for you vast majority of us listening right now the vast majority do not have the ability to respond well on a consistent basis to a routine like that we just don't have the genetics and we're not on the anabolic steroid stacks that they're taking so that's just the bottom line most people half of that training or less is what's going to give them the best results next question is from theresa h fletcher how long do you give a caloric deficit and honest go before you should see results i used to give my clients three to four weeks because water retention could change things uh we could see some fluctuations i want to see how they feel there's a lot more than just yeah so i give it about three or four weeks in a deficit before i'd make any kinds of adjustments uh jumping the gun too quickly it's probably one of the biggest mistakes people make yeah when they change their diet they see a change they don't like they over correct uh and end up messing things up as a result i just want to address too like um before you should see results too sometimes we are seeing results but people the the client doesn't see the results right in other words uh you're in a calorie deficit and you as i'm speaking as if you're my client and uh you're in a calorie deficit and you're in a calorie deficit and you're it's three weeks in and you're like i don't see any change i don't see any results but uh we have i know you have i can see those results or maybe there's other metrics that we're improving that we see um that this person is they're all they're doing is looking at the mirror or look at the scale and so their their definition of good results is maybe what's happening is our deficits very mild small deficit and you're still able to build a little bit of muscle and you're still and you're losing some body fat so the scale is kind of staying this we're in the goalie zone lock zone but it's right where i want you quote unquote deficit uh wise so the scale is not really moving but you're actually leaning out but you think you're not seeing results so be careful with even the advice we're giving right now of three to four weeks and you should see uh results because results may differ per person and what we're looking for and also that what the trainer would consider good results may not be the same as what you may consider well said look if you like the show come find us on instagram it's mind pump media thank you for listening to mind pump if your goal is to build and shape your body dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance check out our discounted rgb super bundle at mindpumpmedia.com the rgb super bundle includes maps anabolic maps performance and maps aesthetic nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by sal adam and justin to 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