How to Buy 60% More Bitcoin With This DCA Method

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Loyalty programs subject to terms and additions, details at Lowes.com/teriors to subject to change. For the same amount of work, we will get more money, but the value of the money is getting worse and worse. So on the paper, your salary is increasing, but you are buying 40% less of the assets. And with Bitcoin, it was even worse. I absolutely understand why Michael Sailor is doing his financial alchemy. It's all about getting more purchasing power. Right now, true someone else's money by an asset, which will be more valuable in the future, which is Bitcoin. But once it's more valuable, you sell a small portion of it and you repaid this extra capital. You don't have to be a company. You don't have to be a publicly traded micro strategy company. You don't have to be the Michael Sailor. And it's a great way how to start and how to use the system. In my humble opinion, we are right at the start of a major bull run. And every time before a bull run starts, I ask myself the question, how can I get more Bitcoin? And that's why I invited today the financial genius behind really big Bitcoin companies like Treasure. To talk about the macro landscape that we are entering in with Radalios thesis, with the Bitcoin cycles. Why using the fear system is a good thing when you want to get a more Bitcoin. And why it is so important to get to one Bitcoin, 10 Bitcoin, 100 Bitcoin, whatever your goal is to stack as aggressively as possible, but in a responsible and safe way, and how we blabbs without the billions of dollars can do a strategy that is similar to Michael Sailor's with buying up to 60% more Bitcoin with every single buy you do and try. I have this feeling that a lot of people look at what strategy and Sailor's doing and look at what they can potentially also do with Bitcoin because they want to have Bitcoin, they want to have it in self-custody, they want to have their own control. And I think you have some really interesting thoughts on how you, I think you said, you can be your own sailor of your Bitcoin strategy. What's kind of your overall thought using Bitcoin in a really smart way to accumulate as many as possible? Great question. Let me start with a first angle point of view. And it is that probably everyone and Bitcoiners, of course, heard about inflation. But I have this experience that people and especially Bitcoiners do understand that inflation is increasing the price of the assets. But they don't realize that it also means that to buy Bitcoin's and stack sets it's going to be harder and harder. Because for the same amount of work we do, we will get officially more money, but the value of the money is getting worse and worse. So I think what is the problem is that to accumulate Bitcoin's is going to be a tough work and it's going to be much and much worse. So that's my first point of view. I recently did the presentation for Bitcoin conference and it was very nice because and this was applied on the Czech Republic, for example. But I think the story is the same for European Union, for the USA, and it was this chart of, let's see what inflation did and everyone knows these charts. So it was pretty easy here. Value of money is decreasing. But once I added the prices of the assets, gold stocks really stayed. It started to be interesting because people now realized that they are buying minus 40% of gold of stocks of real estate for the same amount of work. And in Czech Republic, for example, the average wage increased by 93% in the last 10 years. So I think the point is that I absolutely understand why Michael Seller is doing his financial alchemy. Whatever the listener or people out there thinks about him or about the micro strategy, I think it's a really smart move because you want to leverage the current losing value of the money to buy an asset, which is going to be more and more precious. And so here starts the story also of the entity because if you are a corporation in America, you are publicly traded. You have so many options, what you can do. And that's exactly what Michael Seller is doing. And he's doing it absolutely right. And we wanted to give this opportunity to people like you and me, like people who don't want to start a Bitcoin company or maybe don't want to buy the shares of the micro strategy because probably they have the feeling that I want to own the Bitcoin. I don't want to buy the stocks. So it means the proxy to the Bitcoin. And we came up with this very simple idea. I said, well, on personal level, if I had some rich grandma, I would ask her, can you lend me your money so I can buy more Bitcoin? But since I don't have this grandma, we can do this as a service, which means that we, an entity, we can give you extra capital to buy more Bitcoins. And so you stack more Bitcoins. And in the future, once you want, you can sell a small part of these extra Bitcoins and repay this extra money. So the logic is super simple because people start thinking, okay, is this kind of a financial alchemy? What is behind it's super complicated? Is it leveraged or not? It's super simple. Right now, through someone else's money, buy an asset, which will be more valuable in the future, which is Bitcoin. And one, it's more valuable. You sell a small portion of it and you repay this extra capital. So in NFT, we give you 60% extra capital. And a lot of people ask, why 60%? Why not 70? 80, 100? I understand that for average person, average Bitcoiner, it might be scary because these people are like, hey, I don't want to have a loan. I don't want to use someone else's capital because, you know, is it risky? And we did a lot of calculations and we did thousands and thousands and thousands of scenarios through the whole history of Bitcoin. And it turned out that if you use 100% extra capital, which basically means you put 100 euros and you get 100 euros, it really is a bit risky because it's too much. But it turned out there is a healthy level, around 70%. So we added some reserve and we said, with 60%, that's the exact amount, which financially and mathematically make sense to borrow and buy more bitcoins. And that's why basically and how this idea of, we call it NFT turbo because the whole word understands what turbo means, it means something more, something extra. And so this is the idea, how we created basically the same system what Michael Seller is using. And now of course financial experts out there could say, well, it's not exactly the same, Michael is doing, I know, I know hands down, hands down, but I think the principle is the same. And I call it, let's short the fired because the world and the problems we see in a fired world will not be different. No one is going to change that. The depth is not going to be lower. The policy, the money policy is not going to be different. The problem is going to be only bigger and bigger in the fired world. And that's why I think to start using Fiat, so by more bitcoins is the best strategy of the next years. And now it's September, 2026, we're talking right now and I think now is the right time to start with it because Bitcoin is not on its all time high. And these are the moments that people are scared and they don't want to jump into Bitcoin and start something. But those who will. are going to be the winners of the next cycle. So I think the timing is right. And the whole global situation is showing us clearly that Bitcoin is the right way how to do it. - I love that. And I always say, because a lot of beginners ask me like how many Bitcoin should I buy? And it really comes down to your conviction. It really comes down to how much you believe in Bitcoin. Because if you believe that Bitcoin will go to zero, you should have zero Bitcoin. Like because you shouldn't buy something that goes down. If you believe that Bitcoin is a great asset that we go up with like five, 10, 15%, maybe you can have a small allocation, you can have something in Bitcoin. And then there are, I consider myself a hyper pull. Someone that really believes in Bitcoin and thinks Bitcoin will be the central point of our financial system. Maybe in like a foundational layer, similar to the age, age, how is it called? TCP/AP protocol. So a very foundational layer for how money is built. And if you believe that and you know, there will only be the 21 million, probably a lot less because people lose it and there are rich people that maybe never sell a very big part of their Bitcoin. So it's maybe only 12 million, 15 million, whatever the thing is. So I think once you understand the tremendous value of what one Bitcoin even like a few Satoshi is really mean, you're like, how can I get more right now? How can I get more? And then you'll discover the beautiful field system that allows you to get more Bitcoin today and that or the loan or whatever you're using as an instrument gets less valuable, has less purchasing power and the other one grows. So you're using that system that usually more rich people only use for the everyday person that just wants to invest in Bitcoin and don't stand that information asymmetry. - Absolutely. And I think it requires you to exactly as you said, to understand the Bitcoin, understand the financial system at least a little bit. But also I think it takes a bit of a courage and we wanted to make the barrier as slow as possible because I understand that for some people, it's very hard to, for example, take a loan and buy Bitcoins. But and I wouldn't even recommend this to take one time, big loan at a certain time and buy a big amounts of Bitcoin. So what we wanted to do is to combine good principles and good tools. And one of the great tools is the DCA, which means buying Bitcoin regularly, every single week or every single month, but basically having a strategy, buying it regularly because it allows you to do the kind of price everaging of the Bitcoin. And if you combine this DCA with a micro extra capital, so it's not a one time big loan, but it's more like using someone else's capital, small portion of it regularly, it's like you combine two very powerful tools all together and it turned out that this combination, and as I mentioned, 60% that was from our perspective the magic formula and do it regularly, you can really significantly increase the amount of the Bitcoins you can stack. And recently, in VityMobile app, we released third tool. So you as a user, you can use DCA, you can use someone else's capital in smart way, plus you can automatically time the market. So what we added is that if the Bitcoin is considered to be on the all time high, you don't want to buy more of it. You wanna wait, and once the Bitcoin is in the downturn, you wanna buy more. So what we added is we implemented the 120 weeks average of the Bitcoin and in Vity apps automatically, and you don't have to do anything, it's automatic. It values, so is Bitcoin overpriced today or underpriced? And if it's underpriced, it will give you more extra capital, and if it's overpriced to give you less. And it turned out that the combination of these three tools is super powerful for the average user, and you can start doing this with 100 euros. So you don't have to be a company, you don't have to be a publicly traded micro strategy company, you don't have to be the Michael Seller, and it's a great way how to start and how to use the system. But you said one thing, and it's important, it all requires to understand the Bitcoin, understand the system and have trust in the system, because it's not a bet, it shouldn't be a bet. It must be a calculated decision. - If you're only half as bullish as I am, you wake up with that feeling, with that craving every single day, how can I get more Bitcoin? And I finally found an amazing product that solves exactly this problem. The company's called Invitee, and they have this feature called Turbo Buy. When you buy 100 euros worth of Bitcoin, you get 160 euros back in Bitcoin. So over time, when you accumulate into Bitcoin, you end up with more Bitcoin than you would have bought with a normal DCA plan. Go to Invitee.io/Robin, download the app, and use code Robin, that's R-O-B-I-N, code Robin, with which you get up to 50 euros on your first buys back in Bitcoin, and let's stack more Bitcoin together. - I love that. Maybe for people that are not as convinced yet about Bitcoin, they maybe have only a small allocation to Bitcoin, they maybe just dabble and slowly get into, because I think, as we approach this, hopefully bold market, I think we have more and more of those people that are interested in Bitcoin, have some conviction, but are not yet on the level of saying, "I love it, "I'll just go almost all in, "or go very hard on Bitcoin." How do you explain someone what value Bitcoin has, like the immense value Bitcoin potentially has in the future? - So, I must admit, it's hard, it depends on the listener, and I will give you one great example. So, when I discovered Bitcoin, I think it was back in 2016, something like that, and then I started talking to my friends and family, I spoke with my grandma, and I started the discussion because she was curious, like what is this, the Bitcoin, and I was like, my first idea was you're too old to understand, but I tried, and it was super interesting because she got it very quickly, because I started explaining, "It's a better money," and she asked, "Okay, what do you mean by better money?" And I started, "It's not controlled by the government, "you will not change the rules, "and it's independent, decentralized, and you own it." And she got it into a few seconds, why? Because she had the experience from the communism, and she said, "Yeah, I experienced "when our family lost everything in the bank, "because there was, in the Czech Republic 1953, "there was a change of money." It was a monetary kind of decision of the communist government, and basically what they did is, they changed the exchange rate of the money, one, two, I think it was one thousand something like that, so if you had 100,000 crowns, you had 100 crowns. And it was interesting to speak with someone who has a real experience, these people will got it immediately. And back to your question with younger people, I think sometimes it's hard to explain, because these people didn't experience such thinking life so far, especially during the last, I think, 10, 15 years. So I think mostly our generation is people who started to work in an era of quantitative easing, so basically money were falling from the sky, and everyone kind of used to it. And I think it requires you to experience some issues with the financial system. And unfortunately, this will happen, and we are the generation who will face it. That's what I think, but for some people it will be too late, because yet they don't feel the need for it, so that requires to explain to your friends. And I remember, and that's a nice three-year member, I used to speak about inflation as one of the arguments for the Bitcoin. And I remember before COVID, at least here in Czech Republic, inflation was actually not an issue, like it used to be pretty like normal 2% something like that and I had the feelings that some friends told me like hey you're talking about inflation about you know fat losing value but this episode is brought to you by Google Chrome you think you know a browser but Gemini and Chrome that's new it can help you with practically anything on the web like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block or finally break down that long article you've had opened for weeks Gemini and Chrome is here for it ready to make anything online makes sense there's no place like Chrome check responses set up require compatibility and availability very 18 plus when you got a job to do lows knows how to help you keep it moving my lows pro rewards members save more with member volume discounts on eligible orders to a quote of $2,000 or more plus save time with job site delivery and select purchases not a member joined for free today exclusions more terms and restrictions apply can't be combined with any other discount including but not limited to contract and or special price loyalty program subject to terms and additions details at lows dot com slash terms subject to change it's not an issue and then the covid came and you know a lot of money flow into the economics and the inflation here in Czech Republic was around above 10% per year and it was a shock for people and they remember some of my friends finally got it and they said okay it can happen and it can happen overnight and I think this is the this requires a real life experience to really understand why Bitcoin is needed and why someone should put it into the portfolio yeah I've heard that quote once like either you are nerd and you really study those topics or you experience some pain in the past yeah yeah and of course it's great and I think of course we shouldn't be annoying I know a lot of Bitcoiners can be annoying yeah it can be annoying but I think it's it's nice to kind of use some examples so what I also like and you know just mention it because some people just need some time to think about it and I don't want to persuade anyone to buy Bitcoins but nice example for even a very rich people is the war in Ukraine right now and for some people it was unimaginable that there is a war in Europe and to imagine that you must leave everything here in Prague and for example flee from the country and I have one specific it's not really a friend but it's a person I know and this guy is investor in real estate and like for the last 20 years he used to invest every single euro into the real estate because this guy is perceived or used to be perceived that's the only real value so it was interesting once this war started and the ones I started to have a conversation and I explained hey I know some people who were able to reallocate into different country and thanks to Bitcoin they were able to you know start immediately and reallocate their whole life savings pretty much without anything needed like it was just like that and it was the moment this person started to think about it and now this person decided that at least 5% from his whole wealth will be allocated into Bitcoin but again I think for some people it requires external motivation and usually unfortunately a bad one like a bad example or an issue to really understand why maybe it's right time to do it but and one last thing when you I think it's increasingly easy for Bitcoiners to explain Bitcoin in this world considering the geopolitics considering the depth considering what is going on I think 10 years ago it was hard to explain at least a harder to explain but these days I think more and more people finally get it because they see it all around them I think so too and you mentioned before we started recording Redalio and his feces around the cycles that also plays into all of that how do you look at his feces around the cycles America and China and all of those coming to play with Bitcoin so I really like Redalio and his books I'm of course trying to filter some information even though he's like genius genius mind but I try to put it into perspective because nobody knows what will happen but I must really admit that these principles when you look at them from the very basic perspective and it's pretty simple it's if you are building a depth at some point you must repay it right and if you will not do that it will cause some effects and that's the cycle of the depth and I think this theory makes a lot of sense and for example he has a book Big Depth Crisis and it's the analysis of I think 40 examples even from the past how different countries went through the very same drama and the principles how always the same which is for me kind of a shocking like it can happen in Argentina it can happen in Vimar Republic in Germany but it also happened in the United States it can happen in Europe it can happen in Greece or it happened so I think it's important to be curious and to put things into perspective and back to the original question I think that we can see it right now and the recent I think there's few weeks ago a Radalio for the first time mentioned that he can recommend the allocation into gold and into Bitcoin and it was the first time I heard from Radalio to really recommend I think he mentioned like small portion into Bitcoin so he was I think it was a kind of a disclaimer but I think it's again a confirmation that these very smart people were spending their whole life studying the economics and what is going on are not talking about Bitcoin it's not a coincidence it's also interesting because you have to realize the context of a person for Radalio to come out to even speak about Bitcoin is a huge move and so some people then say like oh why don't you come out and say like put 50% in like that's something that that would never have because you need to have the context of him and that only happens like not never but like it happens over time as it slowly gets there because not but coming back to say they're not or everyone goes find something and just goes all in one other aspect that came to my mind when you were speaking about Bitcoin is I've met a lot of people that had money in other areas of the life they had real estate they had other investment vehicles and then converted all of it or a big portion of it to Bitcoin I have not met someone that had a big portion of the network and Bitcoin and then said I'm going to be a real estate guy now I'm going to be a gold guy now so the other direction seemingly does not work as well I've seen people that said oh I want to buy a home now because of a community of Bitcoin like that's fair like that but that's not an investment thesis that's more like an emotional like a practical thesis that's so fascinating that Bitcoin has this attract that pull thing off it is that just the number go up is that just because it has such a great track record and it's the more to it I think it's more to it I think and of course I don't have the data statistics so I can maybe so let's consider this is my opinion based on investors I know best on you know big investors I try to keep an eye on and you know exactly as Ray Dalio he's evolving he's evolving his ideas and now finally he mentioned Bitcoin but it's other guys as well and I think it's a really first science that something is going on in the world in the economy in like global setup of the financial system and it really depends on which stage you are as a person so what I saw in the past was that people who want to build the wealth so for them it's stage zero it's I want to create the value I want to become a financial independent and I want to buy a house I want to build the assets these people were more willing to invest into Bitcoin because it was risk reward I have nothing to lose because I'm building the wealth, so why shouldn't I invest into Bitcoin? But what I see now is that people from the other side of the spectrum, people who are very rich, they have a lot of assets, a lot of wealth, are doing the very same with the Bitcoin, and they are even selling some assets to buy Bitcoin with even a bigger amount of money. And I think both have different reasons why to do it, but principles are the same. It's something is going on. The people in the stage zero are afraid that in the current world, they will not be able to accumulate wealth to become financially independent, so it's a fear. And they fear that the global system is not fair to them, probably they might have a fear that AI will take their jobs or maybe that fired system value and the purchasing power will be decreasing. And the people on the other side, they have the very same fear because they already build the wealth and they are afraid that they will lose the wealth. So I'm probably not answering your question, but what I feel is that there is definitely more than just, hey, Bitcoin is going up, let's buy some. And I think for the guys who are more and more diversifying Bitcoin is diversification and they don't really care about Bitcoin going up because there is this saying like, of course, you want to become richer than the others, but there is also the other way. When the world is going down, you want to go down slower than the others. And I think that's the mantra for the people on the other side, that Bitcoin for them doesn't mean only going up, but it can also mean to slow down, you know, the crisis slow down situations in which stocks will lose value or real estate will lose value or and that's another reason what I hear these days and it's that people started to be afraid about capital, governmental rules and taxes. So I think this is interesting, that it's not only about I want to become rich, thanks to Bitcoin, I want to be, you know, great assets. It's not only I want to diversify, but it started to be, I really want to be independent. I think this mantra of decentralization used to be just a word for a lot of people and they don't really realize what it means, and it's nice Bitcoin is decentralized, but what is the benefit? And right now, with big depth, governments will, of course, be pushed to increase taxes, to start controlling the capital, to start dictating where you can put your money or you can't. And I think that's another chapter for the Bitcoin to show that it's a great asset, even for this reason. And the story is so fascinating with the Satoshi Nakamoto not being known still, it's really unprecedented, like we've never had something like that. The digital nature, but not being able to be copied or hacked in any other way. And then of course, as you also mentioned, I think that's a really good insight. You don't only want to go up to fastest, you also don't want to go down, you also want to go down the slowest, which brings me, I think, the sharp ratio is probably the best metric to capture both of them, and not to bring back in strategy again. But for example, a lot of people point, for example, to strategy or other strategy companies say, hey, they go up faster, but actually, yes, that's true, a lot of some periods of time, but they also go down faster. And after a very deep work into comparing the last six years of strategy was a Bitcoin price. And yes, strategy outperforms Bitcoin by quite some margin sometimes in the bull market, but it goes down a lot faster. And when you compare the sharp ratio, the Bitcoin one is a lot better. For people that don't know the sharp ratio, it compares how faster asset grows to the volatility, which in a traditional financial space, people call risk, I don't like calling volatility risk, but that's what it is. So I think that's also, it's such a unique asset, it has an amazing story, it has a great sharp ratio, it still has a very energetic asset, so it's not like very slow to move like gold or real estate, it's like very great for news headlines because it's always open Saturday Sunday, there's always something going on. You can get caught up in the new cycle of Bitcoin, so it's a very unique asset in the world. Absolutely, and the reasons to buy Bitcoin is increasing, but at the same time, I'm afraid a lot of people are stuck and they probably are losing the trust because they see that they are losing their purchasing power. And let's say Czech Republic as an example, we have a very bad ratio between how much you earn per year average number compared to how much an apartment average apartment costs you, and there is this ratio like 20 or something like that, so you must spend a lot of money to buy even an average apartment. And I'm afraid that some people stopped trusting in the future because they don't feel that they will be ever able to buy these assets, and when you think about the future, when you think about security for your kids, for your family, for yourself, you want to build it on assets. You want to build it on some resources. We are human beings, but we are animals, we need resources to live. We can't live from the from the air. And I think Bitcoin in this term is still undervalued, and I think a lot of people don't realize that they can start building the security on Bitcoin, and they don't have to save millions and millions to buy an apartment, because they still see this apartment as this special asset and the goal what I want to buy. And I don't understand why people are so obsessed with, for example, real estate, because they can build much more through Bitcoin and then buy the real estate. And that's what we are trying to explain in innovative. We want to make Bitcoin as accessible as possible on few clicks in a smart way, with the best possible financial alchemy, as I mentioned with the turbo, for example, and show people the way, hey, you can still, the game is still winnable. That's the message. The game is still winnable, and you can build it with Bitcoin. And stop thinking about buying a real asset and real estate now. Let's build your wealth the right way. And don't worry. You will get to a real estate in the future, don't worry about it. So I think that's the message, and still a lot of people don't get it. The half of them are afraid of still Bitcoin, because they understand it, and the second the half thing that the game is over. I know some friends that told me, oh, yeah, if it was ten years ago, I would definitely buy Bitcoin, and it's super hard to explain to them that, hey, don't think about the past, think about the future. It's still the game is still winnable. That's new. My Lowes Pro Rewards members save more with member volume discounts on eligible orders through a quote of $2,000 or more. Not a member? Join for free today. See programs subject to terms and conditions, details at Lowes.com/Turors subject to change. That's actually one thing I think a lot of new people struggle with. They probably heard about Bitcoin before 2096. They probably heard about Bitcoin in 2017, 2020, those are the times where it was really popular. Also in mainstream, 2017, especially I remember it was almost impossible not to talk about Bitcoin. But then I was not in Bitcoin, but I still heard it all the time. Then you hear prices of, back then it was like $2,000, $10,000, $15,000. And now they're like, what is it now? Oh, $80,000, $70,000, $90,000? That's expensive. And then there's this limit of $100,000, $100,000 is almost 100%. So it feels like there's some kind of cap to it. It cannot get above $100,000, right? That's the ceiling for Bitcoin. And so I've seen a lot of people struggle with that. Do you have any frameworks to think about? understand how early we still are in this Bitcoin game, even though or despite being up massively in the last five, ten, fifteen years. That's a great question and nicely said and I do feel that people have some limitation in their head and they think it's over, some people of course. And I think the answer is, explain them the factors behind the price. So sometimes I joke with these people and I say hey, maybe the reason why Bitcoin is so pricey because they call it always super expensive, maybe the reason is not that Bitcoin is expensive but it's that Fiat lost so much value. So I usually try to reframe it in their head that it's not about absolute price but it's about the factors. So I try to explain them it's super easy. Bitcoin consists of Bitcoin as a digital gold gold because they can imagine gold. So I use this word. The gold is something you want to rely on during the crisis, right? During the tough times, right? It's something you can rely on, right? And look on the factors. Look on how the governments are behaving. Is the debt increasing or is going down? No, it's increasing. Is the speed of this increase slowing down or increasing? It's again increasing. So I think it's describing the world we live in, all the factors and then going back. So don't think about price. It's irrelevant. It's irrelevant information. It's all about well, the gold and digital gold be useful in the world we are live in. I think yes, it will be. And then of course, I can on top of that add some things like and you don't want to buy gold. You want to buy the digital gold because of this and that and that. But I mean, this is the only framework how to kind of explain it because people tends to be trapped with the numbers exactly as you said. I like to ask what else is that about? Like even if Bitcoin like do would have been already at the major market cap, let's say Bitcoin is already above gold's market cap, which is then I think it 20 access or from here. It would be a lot higher, but then I still have to ask myself, is the better alternative? Yes, of course, I can build my own company, which probably grows quicker, but it's very likely to not succeed. I can buy individual stocks, but then it's a part time job to keep up with them and research them and see what they are doing because of course, the individual stocks that might probably outpace Bitcoin, but a lot of risks to it and a lot of work to it. Can I do it with real estate? Maybe. If you are smart, can negotiate nice terms with banks and like are a great business mind, but again, that's more job and not an investment. So it's like all of those factors come together and you're like, what is there that I can just save in? And for me, the only answer is Bitcoin. That's the only savings vehicle. I don't like to look at that as an investment almost. Yes, that's something I definitely agree with. At the same time, I do have understanding for people who are not there yet. So I think one of the ways is to tell these friends and these people, hey, it's not overpriced. It's not over yet. So why not to put 1% of your income into Bitcoin? You have nothing to lose. Just test it out, do it. And that's why basically it is the original idea behind the invitee mobile app. Like six years ago, I had this idea like it would be nice to have very easy app on three clicks to buy Bitcoin because when I'm sitting on my friends in a pop and some of them are like, maybe you're right, maybe I should do something about it. I must do some action because the next day they will not remember, not because of the beer and alcohol, but maybe also, but they have different problems. It's day-to-day operations. And I think this is the problem that people must take the action and we should motivate them. And the best motivation is you have nothing to lose. You can start putting 50 euros into Bitcoin. And you have nothing to lose. But it's hard. 50 euros, it's like a round of beer for your friends. Exactly, but it's like, well, it's like how much you're paying for Netflix. And I bet you pay also for other services. You don't even remember, you know, exactly. And I think that's the best we have to do it. And to once they have at least a small portion and this is what I saw in one of my friends, this guy really small amount of money into Bitcoin. And it was two, three years later, this person experienced the increase in value. And that was the moment the phone will really start it. And this guy said, okay, I must put more into Bitcoin. And this guy really started to, you know, regular, bigger amounts of savings. And that was the moment this guy realized, yes, it works. But it needs time. I sometimes joke that Bitcoin technically hands down. It's great. And it proved to be great. But I think what we miss in the whole equation is that people need more time to adapt any technology. And it simply requires years and years and years. And education and whatever to really get it. And we are so lucky to be in this stage zero. I still think we are at the beginning of something. And we are very lucky to be at this stage. How long have you been already observing and being active in Bitcoin? And because you're also working in Bitcoin now with like Satoshi Labs and in VD. It's a funny story because I started working when I was 14 years old because I read a book about investing and about financial freedom. I said, okay, I will start working. I will start earning money. I will start investing. And so I started as an assistant to the investment consultant. And then I worked as an investment consultant. Then I worked as the financial analyst. And I was on the, I would say the other side, if I can put it this way. And I was obsessed with stocks and, you know, funds and investment funds and how it works. But it was nice because it opened my mind to really understand what is the financial system. And then I think it was in 2016. I met Slash, the founder of the treasure. And he explained me what Bitcoin is basically. And my first emotion was it will not work because it's not regulated. It's strange. I cannot touch it. And it simply, it sounds strange. It must my first emotion. But since I already got some experience with the financial system, how it works. And I always asked myself, so how the value is created? I always asked myself like, how value is created in the financial system? Why this stock is priced this and the other is not priced like that. So what is the real value? And it was the moment I realized, hey, it doesn't matter that it's digital. It doesn't matter that it's decentralized. It doesn't matter. It sounds strange. Let's find out what is the real value. And so it took a lot of coffee meetings with Slash. But I must thank him because he was the one who had the patience to explain me. And it took like six months, I think. And then I said, okay, I can at least test it out. And after that, I realized, and it was really like life changing. And it might sound like a buzzword. But let me explain because it was real life changing. Because it was 2017, year after that. And it was the moment I've already spent like 10 years in the financial segment. And to be honest, I was exhausted. Like, it turned out that most of the people, these financial managers, you know, with big fancy cars and everything are not good people, if I can say it. And then I met this guy, Slash, like very modest guy, very intelligent, working on some new technology. And I said, I don't want to work in the financial segment anymore. I want to work with these guys because back then it was not about money. It was not about some fancy something. And but I said, it makes sense for me to be with the creators with people who create something. Then just with financial people who are just, you know, moving numbers from left to right. And so I was lucky. And then I got an offer to join the treasure company, small company back then. And I was convinced that Bitcoin will probably die in a few years or maybe die, but it will be like very low value. But I will enjoy it with these creators. And then 2017, Boran. you know, it was big. I think it was the first moment that could become popular amongst like regular people. Yeah 2017 was huge, I think, because every news outlet covered it. It was discussed. I was in school back then. It was discussed weekly, sometimes daily, depending on what the Bitcoin price was. And I remember that even though I was not in the Bitcoin back then. I asked it up because there's so many different periods in Bitcoin as those euphoria moments of 2017. There are those depression moments of 2018, 2022 was also really bad that I remember that also even worked in Bitcoin already. And now we have 206, which feels different, at least for me, like I never had a year like 206 where we went of course down quite substantially from the all-time high. I think we have the all-time high, like somewhere above 120, we went down to I think 58, 57, the lowest point. I don't even know what the price today is, but a lot higher having 80,000. Something like that. So this year was not really a depression year, it was not really a down year, even though yes, year to date we are down, I still think. But there was always a lot of movement, there was always a lot going on. And so with all your experience and like also seeing the financial side with the companies and all of that, where do you put 206 and what do you think is coming from this 206 to 207, 208, and in the future? I keep asking myself this question ahead. I do agree that 2026 is somehow strange and it doesn't fit into my mental model I created since 2016. Because if you asked me, I would say yes, I believe in cycles. And yes, I understand, it's not real, I understand, it's probably not going to happen again. And yes, I understand everything, but yes, I did see cycles in Bitcoin and I did believe in them. And even as a company, we bet on them 2021 and then again 2025. And this time is different. And there is this saying that one of the most expensive saying on the Wall Street is this time is different. Maybe it happens in Bitcoin as well. So 2026, if you ask me and that was the original question, I have doubt what is going on because my original expectation was that now we will face a tough year, 2026. I expected 2027, the first half to be like a bottom, like Bitcoin is dead, it's not moving, it's not going up, it's not going down, it goes sideways. We don't care about Bitcoin anymore, everyone will be obsessed with AI. And then I expected 2028 to be again interesting here, halving, and then again, the bull run. But it's not happening. It's not happening. I think Bitcoin is somehow still a topic. And my theory behind is that probably there is something going on with the world. And probably the situation is so bad that Bitcoin is still interesting asset. And some people think cycles are over. Some people think it will not happen again. I'm not sure about that. I'm not sure because the psychology of people is unfortunately extreme. People wants to get rich overnight. And people are super obsessed with going up and super pessimistic when it goes the other way. So I think we will still see cycles on Bitcoin. And for me, it's 2028. So if you put an iPhone in my neck and tell us, so how it's going to be, I would say 2026 average year, 2027, I expect more downside than the upside. And then 2028, I think that is the right moment to really start preparing for a big number is going up. Maybe also just the CFO being conservative. Definitely, definitely. And I think it's a great point because experience, when you experience something like 20 2017 and then this crash in 2018, it was horrible. In 2019, it was one of the toughest year for our companies ever. And then back 2021, big crisis, price going down. And it was not about Bitcoin going down, but it was all about like no one is interested in Bitcoin. No money flows into the segment. No demand for Bitcoin related services, products and everything. So I think I still see these cycles from the past even though it doesn't make any sense to imagine them into the future. But I always want to be ready for the worst case scenario. So that's why I'm so pessimistic about the current and the next year. And then I expect something better. Something like hope for the best prepare for the worst or something like absolutely, absolutely. Yeah, that's I think that's the strategy. And nobody knows what will happen but at the same time it's fascinating. And I think there is philosophical portion in all of it. And what I really loved about the cycles we saw in 2018, in 2002 was this kind of it's a challenge. It's a challenge for the industry, it's a challenge for the people, it's a challenge for the investors. And it was interesting to see how people reacts to it. And I think in life, in Bitcoin, in, you know, business, there are cycles as well. It's not always going up only. You must face the down. And it was interesting to see some people said, I'm done with this. No Bitcoin anymore. Some people said, OK, let's do something about it. Let's work even harder. Let's prepare even greater products because the cycle can happen again. And some people were kind of pessimistic and left or were demotivated, left the company, changed the segment. And some people are just attention seekers. So these people and probably some, you know, YouTubers back then, they just switched the topic because Bitcoin was not interesting anymore. So let's switch to, I don't know, Tesla something or AI, not back then in 2021 but something different. And I think it was a test of the character. So maybe that's why I still wish for cycles because from my experience, it was a great test of the personal characters of the people in the Bitcoin. And those who were patient, those who did not stop working were rewarded. And I think this is how it should work. I don't think there's an easy way to wealth, easy way to become rich, easy way to anything. And you must be the one who is brave. We will jump into it at the worst possible time when everyone is saying, now don't do that Bitcoin is minus 80%. This is the worst moment. No, that's the best moment to start. And I think it's the same here. And that's why we in NVT try to tell these two people that now it's the test of the character. And if you want to create something big, if you want to create generational wealth, you are not able to build it overnight. But I can tell you that in 10 years, your kids will ask, so what did you do back then? And I want to have a good answer. I want to have the answer that, yeah, I was, I was there, you know, I was the part of it. I believed and even and some people say, but what if Bitcoin will not be successful? And I say, I don't care because I will say I trust myself. I did everything I could. And even though I bet on wrong thing, I was natural. I was real. I did my best. And I was part of something. I did the decision at least. I think it was Dante Alighieri who said in the hell, there is a special place for people who did not take any decision in the moment of crisis. And that's interesting. And I sometimes think about it this way that now it's time to take a decision. You must take a part. You cannot be nailed through. So sorry, this is just the philosophical aspect of the cycle. I love that, really, because I think I don't really ever mention that on the podcast. But when I think about life decisions are always think a little bit of what would I do if a film crew is with me right now filming a documentary about my life and everyone will see that like what I did in that very moment. And opting in for the most interesting story is a fun way to approach life because then all of a sudden a huge failure is no longer failure. It's just interesting milestone in your own story. I mean I don't know how I go into superhero stories but like if you see the classic superhero story he always gets the build up then a massive crash down where he's on the bottom where it's like the lowest point right before then he rises again. And I think it's I think the life should be a little bit like your own superhero story where you should struggle you should go through that and not just checking out of it and if I got asked it the question myself sometimes of like what do you do if Bitcoin is failing and goes to zero and like my life story gets a lot more interesting. Definitely and at least we can tell our grandkids the funny story hey tell us how you lost everything in a Bitcoin again it was funny but now for real I think it is and it should be the part of it because of course there's always risk and I think if there wasn't a risk it wouldn't be successful because again I don't think there is a free launch in this where there is not a free wealth no you must do something for it about it and it's the journey of the character exactly I really love this mental advice like if there was a crew filming a documentary I will I will keep this one it's nice and there is one thing I remember when I started my career and I was this assistant of the investment consultant it was interesting to you know be on the meetings with the people and this consultant usually they did the financial plan for the people I think calculated you know the how much they must invest to you know create some wealth and then they can retire and blah blah blah and it was interesting to realize how people overestimate what they can achieve in a few years and they extremely underestimate what they can achieve long-term and there is a saying that this interest rate is one of the strongest power in the universe and people usually don't realize what it means 10% every year for 20 years and it can mean like life changing experience so that's why I think it's good it's good that there are some obstacles on the road same with Bitcoin and probably it's good that not everyone wants to buy Bitcoin immediately that everyone must find its own way to it and maybe that's the reason why some people will be I don't want to say more successful in terms of financial wealth but I mean they will be more experienced because they will face it face it face it face it every single day and those were in this as if they will not take any actions well why not okay but they will not accomplish anything this episode is brought to you by Google Chrome you think you know a browser but Gemini and Chrome that's new it can help you with practically anything on the web like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50 page restoration block or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks Gemini and Chrome is here for it ready to make anything online make sense there's no place like Chrome check responses set up require compatibility and availability very 16 plus when you've got a job to do lows knows how to help you keep it moving my lows pro rewards members save more with member of all your discounts on eligible orders through a quote of two thousand dollars or more plus save time with job site delivery and select purchases not a member joined for free today exclusions more terms and restrictions apply can't be combined with any other discount including but not limited to contract and/or special price loyalty program subject to terms and conditions details at lows dot com slash terms subject to change was the compounding effects I always love those examples and there's so many of them like if you drop on the middle of a biggest football stadium a small drop of water after like 45 minutes you barely see anything there's like a small puddles and after 50 minutes it's almost four which is like it's in those last moments where the compound growth really hits and the exponential growth really hits it's always I think we just can comprehend exponential growth and you investing coming back to what we talked about before just a little bit everything a week everything on month especially if you have a little bit leverage on top or like a little bit extra purchasing power like the extra 60 percent with in with the offers that really compounds quickly and not quickly in in terms of you will be rich in like half a year but quickly in terms of you will build real generation wealth over five ten fifteen years over long periods of times also one thing I thought about because you brought up the houses it's mind blowing all those for people when I bring the chart up what the average house in Czech Republic or like European Union or like just America or so cost it like ten years ago five years ago one year ago and now and it just started a few thousand bit coin and then a few hundred bit coin and then last year it was a three bit coin this year it's a six bit coin because obviously the Bitcoin price went down and so if you see a development of hundreds and thousands of bitcoins to three four five bit coin you could imagine a house being priced at like one bit coin under one bit coin and you're like oh and coming back to the grand bus story you can then say yeah I bought a bit coin when the house that we lived in was not worth a zero point one bit coin but it was worth a hundred bit coin ten bit coin whatever the thing is or I don't know it's all all fits nicely together I hope absolutely absolutely and that's our mission in unity to really show the path for the people and not only for the newcomers but these products as a turbo are designed for people who are in Bitcoin already because one of the risk is you will not get into Bitcoin at all okay these are newcomers who should help them to onboard but I think there is still a risk for people who are in Bitcoin who are saving into Bitcoin but maybe they're doing something wrong because I remember when I started my career and this investment consultant I was just an assistant I was sitting there listening and he always asked these people so how much are you investing right now for the future and that people answered like okay we are investing 200 euros per month and he asked them and why not two hundred and one euro why not two hundred fifty why not two hundred seventy and they was always like what we I don't know what you mean and it was his way how to explain that we should start from the end because you must first define your goals and these goals were to find how much you must invest today and I have a feeling that some Bitcoiners are you know saving into Bitcoin but they should have a plan and they should realize that it'll be much bigger of a challenge to acquire significant amount of the bitcoins and that's why we want to give these users more and more powerful tools and it's not only invited to her bow but we have one special product which should be released at the end of this year and it's an in the Bitcoin card because we think that it's not only about building the wealth the fastest and most efficient way but once you are there you want to live more and more on Bitcoin only so you want to also spend the Bitcoin and so we are trying to be this kind of a no bank based on the Bitcoin which means we will help you not only to accumulate as much Bitcoin as possible in the shortest possible way because of this turbo special effects but also once you're there you are able to start using your Bitcoin account the same way as you are using your bank account and we decided that we will of course use these features banks usually use such as if you pay with our card we will give you some money back so we said that's a nice way but we will do it in Bitcoin so if you're spending we will give you back and sets so we are trying to constantly release new features to make inviting mobile app not only the best way how to accumulate the bitcoins but also how to live off and we hope that in the future we will find ourselves and our users in a moment when you basically don't need that bank that you can operate everything only on the Bitcoin the same way as people are used right now and the reason why is that people won't easy things. And I know Bitcoiners who are using their bank just because it's easy or they are not using some Bitcoin features because it's too complicated. So I think that's, again, one important thing, how to make it as easy as possible for people because otherwise they won't use it. So that's just a side note. Yeah, I think we have to, I've actually gave a presentation on that note in Prague last year. No, this year actually. It feels like a forever ago. And I'm, I explained to, I related it to the car development and how the car was around since two decades before it really exploded the the core technology of the car. And how the car obviously got better, but the moment the ecosystem changed was when the mainstream came in because at the beginning there were no mechanics. The roads were not paved. There were no gas station. So if you think about now having a car and there are no gas stations, there are no mechanics if something goes wrong and the roads are really shitty and not paved, will you still buy a car? Most likely not. You will probably still stay with the horses and the carriages and all of those things. So even if some product or something on asset is superior to everything else, if it's not made super easy for the end users, super easy to interface, transact, spend, invest in all of those things, people will not use it. The end user needs to be as, it needs to be as convenient as possible for him and as quick as possible and there needs to be no friction in there. I think like especially now, like the least hard way completely else what we said before of like you should aim for the hardest way you should aim for the right thing. But if you want to make a product, make it as easy for the end users because people usually go that route that is most convenient, go the route of the least resistance. Absolutely. I think the only hard thing should be the decision in the head, but since that moment Bitcoin should be easy to use. Secure on few clicks. But unfortunately some aspects of the Bitcoin are really complicated and it's true and it's a never ending story or a mission, more like a mission to deliver it in the most easy way, but without compromising the original thing. I still think that it's, I really hope Bitcoin will not become just a regular asset and people will buy it through the ETFs and that's the end of the story. So when I started with Bitcoin, I was afraid about the price. I was afraid whether it will go to zero, but now there is another scenario and it is that Bitcoin will be super successful. It will go to millions, but it will not fulfill its full potential. And I think that's also a risk we will face in the future and that's why we think that we shouldn't concentrate the wealth and that's why and I will be a bit controversial here. Even though Michael Saylor is doing interesting things and he is popularizing Bitcoin and it's great, I'm afraid that we don't want to see a too big to fail situation in Bitcoin and I think the concentration of Bitcoin of the wealth of being like a spoke person of Bitcoin is not right and that's why in Nvidia we aim for average user and we want average user to be saving his own sets and be able to withdraw any time into self-custody having the best possible features and products all in one click in one mobile application but be in control of it because otherwise I'm afraid it could be the best scenario for the Bitcoin. So imagine it's a dream but it can be a hell at the same time. So we will see. I think we need the balance. I think that's very important. I think it would be a red flag and something bad if there would be no corporate adoption at all. If corporate say I don't want to touch Bitcoin at all because that would mean there's some concerns from all the CFOs and all the financial decision makers and companies that would be red flag but if then all the Bitcoiners are only with companies that's also something bad in my opinion in Bitcoin so there needs to be a healthy balance between Bitcoin held in self-custody within individuals Bitcoin being pushed on financial institutions and corporations. One aspect that always is usually not as covered is the corporate adoption helps a little bit with the retail adoption because they allow being for better rules and treatments of Bitcoin which sometimes helps also just for better rules around Bitcoin, taxes and stuff like that. I just talked before with Pablo also from Invitin. We talked about how different regions have very different focuses. I have a similar experience with for example Germans because I'm from Austria. They're very like oh how's the tax thing going and this is that. So yeah I think having adoption on all different levels with a very healthy balance is extremely important and we should not concentrate too many coins which is fun because like strategy has a lot already. I remember two years ago when I was on the space and someone asked me if they could ever achieve 1% of the Bitcoin supply and I was like I don't I don't really see it but potentially and I was like you have the probed don't and now they have like 4% of it so it's a fascinating story but something to keep an eye on because we don't want the adoption just on the corporate level even though some on the corporate level is obviously good. Exactly. I think this heading balance in all things is that's the point that's the message. How to achieve that? Well I think it all starts with on the individual level. So on you, on your company, on doing great stuff, on educating yourself, your family, your friends and trying to do the best and I hope this incentives Bitcoin created will work in the future. I think it will and it should but at the same time yeah I am a bit nervous about the corporations and the governments using some unfair advantages. Are you more nervous around strategy or more nervous around maybe even like coin base holding a lot of the coins not just from strategy but like from ETFs and all of that combined? Both both. So coin base basically because that's a great question since we cannot really speak about strategy without mentioning coin base because these pit coins are held within the coin base. So the biggest honey pot right now is coin base and even though I think they're doing a great job in terms of like business in terms of the infrastructure they have very nice user interface. The UX is great as this is just my personal opinion but I like the app I like do we hide they do the stuff but at the same time it's a huge risk. And I think for people there's this principle like it's unimaginable until it happens and it was the same with the FTX it was the same with you know now the cold card incident like you cannot imagine it until it happens and I think coin base I really hope they know what they're doing I think they do but at the same time I would appreciate diversification because I think and correct me if I'm wrong maybe it's not the actual state but as far as I know the only fidelity and their ETFs are holding it in their own setup but other ETFs and most of them are using the coin base as well. My hope is that over time more companies more corporations and also ETFs and institutions do what fidelity does and not even just what's fidelity does just use different providers because for me the biggest risk is actually not who legally owns the Bitcoin but where the Bitcoin actually sits that's why I asked a question of like I see coin base like strategy obviously it's the big name say list the big one of the spokesperson's and it's like it's an easy I don't want to say target for people but Coinbase is the one actually holding in coins and I don't know if like I don't think all strategy coins are at Coinbase they have some some strategy but they hold a lot of coins, like a lot, a lot of coins, and so that's actually something I'm looking at and seeing this is a real concern. Not something, not concerning that, that it will hurt but the coin over the long run. It's just something medium run because what happens if they, I don't think it's possible that they all get hacked, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, and we can even extend this idea because it's not only about being hacked or having some infrastructural problem, but I think it's even the solve fact. Imagine we are the government and we will think about, okay, we need more money because we are spending too much, we must pay the debt, we must pay the interest rate, so which assets to seize true taxes, of course? And I think the solve fact that it's possible to go knock on the door on a coin base and say basically this is the place where the bitcoins are, is dangerous because if the diversification is done correctly, the government will not even think about it because it wouldn't be technically possible to do some moves, some actions towards the bitcoins and bitcoins. But since it is possible, I think it opens a dangerous door mentally to even think about it, so it's another aspect to it. I think it's a good aspect. One question that I asked every single one of my new guests that are for the first time ever on the show is, what can we learn from you besides Bitcoin? What is something that you're doing, you are teaching or learning completely besides the topic of Bitcoin and finances? All right, so I will mention at least one thing and it is that people want to build financial freedom, for example, but it's not everything. I think people overestimate that they will be happy once they are rich and it's not true, so that's why I realized at some moment that I should also focus on my mental health and the physical health, and it doesn't make any sense to have all the bitcoins of the world without having an ability to really enjoy it, and so I think this is the aspect I would give outside of the Bitcoin that people should be very careful, and of course, now it's a bad word like longevity and this kind of stuff, but don't speak about longevity. I think it's about the mental health, and I think it's becoming more and more dangerous in the current world to find happiness, so for example myself, I don't use any social media, I don't have Instagram, I don't have any TikToks and this kind of stuff, I don't even know how it works, of course I have a Twitter account, and of course I must have the LinkedIn account, but to be honest, I do not check them regularly, I don't go there, I use AI to summarize what is going on in the crypto and Bitcoin space on Twitter because of course it's part of my job, but I think it will become more and more dangerous and hard to find real happiness, and I think people should think about it right now and they should implement it into their strategy because people are able to create a strategy, I want to accumulate this amount of Bitcoin because it will allow me to buy a real estate, pay for my kids' education and have a great vacation, but that's not all, it's not all, and people should think about what they would like to do, how they would like to spend their time and how to defend their focus and their attention, and I think this is going to be a new currency of the world, it's attention, so when we speak about Bitcoin as a currency and the great new money, I think the real money is our attention because our attention means time, so, and now back to the Bitcoin, I think people should try to buy time and that's why I want to become financially freedom because I want to buy time and I want to have a control over my attention, so that's the philosophy behind and I think people shouldn't underestimate it. I've said, especially because I mentioned sometimes on the podcast, I measure the money I have, not in euros or Bitcoin or anything else, I measure it in time, so I have a routine every month, I sit down and see what I have, what's going on in the financial world, like in my own financial world, because sometimes it gets chaotic, and then I see at the end of the day what do I have in time left, if I completely stop every single income that I have right now, like how many days, weeks, months, years do you have to live with your current expense rate, with your current liquid network, like what is there as a buff, I mean USSC4, we do a lot with the company and also with your personal finance, but they always love to just look at the time number and not at some euro amount or Bitcoin amount because that doesn't mean anything to me, that doesn't mean anything material, people also ask that question a lot like how many Bitcoin to retire, like what is rich, because when you said that like once you get rich you doesn't mean the happiness, my first question was because people also ask me what does it mean to be rich, like what is the number, is one Bitcoin, is it 100 Bitcoin, like what is the number that you all of a sudden are rich, I think it's an individual thing, if you live in New York City and you need like 10K a month to live, the number must be a lot higher than if you live in the suburb country of Czech Republic and have maybe two to three thousand a month that you need or maybe even like below that if you're a single person, so it's wealth is I think a lot better than measured in time. This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome, you think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new, it can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50 page restoration block or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it, ready to make anything online make sense, there's no place like Chrome, check responses set up require compatibility and availability very 18 plus. When you've got a job to do, Lo's knows how to help you keep it moving, Milo's pro rewards members save more with member volume discounts on eligible orders to a quote of two thousand dollars or more, plus save time with job site delivery and select purchases, not a member joined for free today. Exclusions, more terms and restrictions apply, can't be combined with any other discount, including but not limited to contract and or special price, loyalty program, subject to terms and conditions, details at Lo's dot com slash terms, subject to change. This is great and I really love the way of thinking because every time people think about financial freedom, they and that this is my experience because I mentioned I worked as an assistant and then I worked as the investment consultant. So finally it was my meetings with the clients talking about things and it was I'm really glad I had this experience because it was interesting to speak with people about wealth, about money, about their life goals and maybe to learn something from them and it was interesting yet like people started with these amounts and everything but it all starts with my own need. So it depends how much you spend. That's the real figure and I always told them I had a list of like people from the music industry which you could bankrupt people from the Hollywood which bankrupted and I was showed them it's not about income. These people had a very significant income and they still bankrupted. So it's all about how much you want to spend and you should start everything with your spending and then on top of that you must build everything around with some reserves here and there and everything and it required people to really think about their life. So my conclusion always was that to be financially free it's not about the mathematics, it's not about the amounts. Yes, it's important but it all starts with the mental understanding of what you want to do with your life and in this way I think it's kind of a fair I still believe this world is fair in a way of course in a way that you must do the homework. It all starts with you thinking about things understanding things define them in your mind. And that's why I think this, and that goes back to my previous answer about the mental health. Because I think these days it's very easy to not think during the day, I'm in the work, I must focus, focus, focus. And once I'm home, I just open the Netflix and I see some, you know, film on series of something. And I'm just consuming, but I think the real idea starts when there is a silent. When you have finally time to think about stuff, to speak with your inner something, even about the financial goals. And it's a harder and harder for people because there are big corporations fighting for our attention. And so that's why everything starts and ends with the attention in the head, I think. I love that. Especially I see from the greater side and I see how nuanced those algorithms work to capture you and how great they are in doing that. You have to fight against it, you have to really, like it's hard to strike a balance between being completely isolated from the world because there's so much going on on those platforms. I mean, you mentioned it Twitter and LinkedIn, you almost have to be on there if you're working in the industry. But now thanks to AI tools, we have really great tools. We have an Android team as you might be aware of where the previous case is asking a question for the next guest without knowing who the next guest actually is. And the previous guest asked you the question, what is economics to you? What is economics to me? So I'm not a PhD professor, so I will not start with some explanation, but I will probably say it's cooperation because there is this nice saying from Uri Carpich. It's economics and he's his great mind, I think he wrote a lot of books and he has a definition, which is something like I would try to translate it, but he said basically that money is the records of good actions. It's a kind of a memory of these good actions. So if money is a memory of good actions, economics for me is the cooperation because without cooperation, there is no extra value and without extra value, there is no output. There is no economics, there is there is nothing, I think, so I think it's cooperation. Interesting. I love that. Thank you so much. Before I let you go, I mean, we've discussed you're not too active on social media, but where can people find you, the company, the things that you're doing? So definitely, it would be nice to check in with you. We are on social media, and of course true, our company accounts, I'm there as well. So in with it, it's definitely something to check and our mobile app and check our products, check our turbos. I have a lot of presentations on YouTube. I spoke and presented this turbo on the Bitcoin Prague. So for those who are curious, there is a very nice presentation. It's only 20 minutes and it explains everything, it explains innovatively our mobile app, the turbo products and everything. So that's worth to find me. Awesome. Thank you so much for being on the podcast. And also thank you so much for watching and listening for joining us today as always. I'll be back. Awesome. Thank you very much. Thank you so much. Amazing. Thank you. This content is for educational and entertainment purposes only and does not constitute financial advice. Online deal days are back at Kruger. Don't miss your chance for extra savings when you shop pick up or delivery. You can save $30 on your first online order of $75 or more with your digital coupon. Plus enjoy unlimited free delivery by starting a boost free trial today. But hurry, these extra savings end October 20th. Restrictions apply, see site for details. Kruger, fresh for everyone. Close your eyes, exhale. Feel your body relax. Let go of whatever you're carrying today. 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