How to Build Your Brand Online + Audience Q&A| The HigherUp Podcast Ep. 91

What's up guys? Wow, what a turnout. Holy moly times our most valuable asset and there's a lot going on at this event And the fact you guys chose to invest some of yours being that it's the one asset We're never making more of in this life means a lot to me So I'm gonna try to make it worth your while we have any current or aspiring creators in the crowd right now Great anyone didn't raise their hand. This is gonna be super fucking boring. I'm sorry So March 7th of 2023. I decided after four months of contemplation thinking fear contemplating in my mind what was gonna happen if and I got out of my own way and I posted my first video online It was horrific. It was a day in the life. I couldn't look at the camera. I stuttered and I was scared out of my mind 60 days after that I quit corporate America I built a following of 200,000 people on TikTok and three years later I'm proud to say we built that platform to over three million people and I've been able to be thank you Thank you. I've been able to be on some of the platforms that I grew up listening to guys that I idolized and looked up to women That have blown my mind with I've been able to do in this industry and had the honor to call them peers And along the way the number one question I've been asked is How? How did you do it and it turns out Post every day and try to be valuable wasn't really a powerful answer So Steve Jobs is a great quote where he says the funny thing about life is that you have to live it forwards But it only makes sense in reverse. So what I've done is I've looked at the last three years of my life and my career And tried to build something that I think is as close to Tactical and practical as you can get so I can give each of you at least just one thing It's a goal if I can get each of you one thing that feels tactical Meaning you can leave this talk and take it to your brands to your current brands The brand you're gonna start tomorrow the brand you've been putting off for a month because you're terrified What people will think of you that you can use in your life and your brand to post online and change your life like I did The first thing you need to understand before we get into this at all Is that this is a framework. It is practical. You can use it and it will yield results guaranteed But it's probably gonna suck you're gonna suck It's gonna be uncomfortable and it's probably gonna take longer than you think People ask me how long it took to grow the brand I say three years it started quickly it flatlined It grew again, and it's been like this throughout the last three years the difference is I just didn't stop So it is gonna be hard especially if you're starting out if you're in the first six months I see a lot of creators with big followings and big brands that are a year two years three years in it's easy now But we all remember that first video now terrifying it was So if you can lean into the fact that you're just gonna suck and that's okay, and you can suspend your ego long enough for your skill sets to catch up You can win Content there's one there's one thing you need to know about content. It's the most important thing The currency of content is consistency and it's pay-to-play you have to show up. This is probably the only thing I'm gonna give you all day That is like a non-negotiable everything else you can kind of take what you don't take what you want leave But you don't but this thing is you have to post every day you have to and now I'm getting creators coming out and saying Well, that's actually not what it takes. It's not all about showing up every day Quality matters and this is this is true But the point in the argument behind posting every day is to get good fast If you wanted to make it to the MLB and you wanted to make it to the highest level and whatever sport Take me out whatever sport It is that you were striving for maybe when you were younger and you were up against the competition that was in the batting cage for baseball Every day seven days a week taking a hundred swings and you were taking 50 swings three times a week That guy's gonna beat you because he's simply putting in more work Alex or Mosey says you should do so much volume that it would be unreasonable for you not to win And that's the point of posting every day. Yeah, the algorithm favors consistency and you should show up every day for that reason But the point is if you suck now and you post three days a week or seven days a week If you choose seven you're effectively improving twice as fast So that's the whole argument behind posting every day It's to get comfortable and proficient and productive as fast as you can the learning curve is J-shaped Once you get to the top it levels out. It becomes a lot easier. So consistency is number one and it is king Now when it comes to building a brand, what's the premise of a brand? They're known for something right? They're known for standing for something Well, you want to build a personal brand this buzz word floating around on the internet how to build your brand It's a simple question. It's not about the brand It's what do you want to be known for when someone sees your videos? They see Jack they think of infectious energy when I think of Dominic I think of a steward of fate someone to get me closer to God. I know them for something You need to be known for something and this is where a really powerful practice from one of the best content coaches in the game my friend Briar Cochran comes in. It's called the counter position So if you're building a brand online you're looking to post you probably have an industry that you could lump yourself into Fitness self-development, entrepreneurship, sales, whatever it is What you do is you go into that industry and we all have this and you find the commonly held beliefs in your industry And you pick the two or three that you vehemently disagree with and then you talk about that The things that I'm known for are the things that go against the grain of the things that I speak on three years ago Common Jim bro knowledge would tell you when I was just moped hosting strictly about fitness Got to be in the gym five days a week. Got to do cardio. You got to eat the boring meals I came on the internet. I said hey guys, I lost 60 pounds I trained three times a week and I walk and I don't really think about much else. I focused on protein That's it. And what it did was it was so antithetical to what the average person thought you had to do to get a great physique That they went fuck I can do that So I was able to meet people where they were at the the beginner is not ready for six days in the gym They're not ready for the stairmaster. It doesn't matter yet So I said try this and then it yielded results and that video has probably 15 million views across platforms at this point I came in and said that I don't believe that it takes extreme discipline and hustle to build a life that you want I believe it's not a discipline issue. It's a systems issue. James clear says in his book atomic habits You don't rise to the level of your goals you fall to the level of your systems. We've all heard that one So my argument is you don't need to white knuckle through life to win You need to build a life that is so easy to adhere to that no matter your emotional state no matter what you have going on in your personal life You can adhere to it with a hundred percent compliance and I encourage you to find what those systems are You have your counter positions. You have the things that you're thinking of right now that you go You know what I don't agree with the way most people are doing things in my space and I'm gonna talk about it And you do that so you stake a position against the status quo when you gain attention This is not being polarizing for the sake of being polarizing I'm not telling you to get online to be an asshole But I guess some people think that's what I do I'm telling you to pick something that you would publicly defend in a setting like this In front of everybody that you're proud to promote that's your counter position Make sense Beautiful Then we get into the argument of Abba Michael. I just don't know what to post That's like no question number two, but like where do I begin? How do I do and I always tell people post everything and we'll get to that in a minute, but if I had to Give you something a little bit more practical And when I look at my content retro actively I would place it into three pillars and these are the three pillars that I think make up Every great creator every single one that you love if you study them You'll see these parallels are these pillars rather across their videos. They're three things They are informational They're aspirational and they're relational Informational is the stuff that you feel you are an authority on this guy definitely knows how to train He's an authority. He could probably teach somebody how to work out comfortably if I called you up right now And said just tell me the basics of working out you could it's embedded in your identity That's the stuff that you're an authority figure on that's the stuff You're gonna be comfortable getting up in front of a crowd and sharing. It's authoritative and most importantly It's in service to other people people don't care how much you know until they know how much you care And you need to get online and show them how much you care through providing as much Free value as you can. This is how you build trust a lot of people in here are trying to build coaching businesses They're trying to build a product you build products you sell products you sell coaching by building trust and you build trust In goodwill through giving out everything you know another great hormos equal give it all away for free Sell the implementation and I know there's a fear with people that own businesses of but Michael What do I put behind the paywall? What are they going to pay me for? Nothing but access and order people don't pay me because I hide something from my page If you want to get fit. It's all on my page. You want to build a brand? It's all on my page If you want to invest time with me What you're going to get is access and speed you don't have to go looking you can just ask me an order of information I've got it all laid out. You don't have to go searching through my feed for what you need So hide nothing behind a paywall. Give it all away for free and the law of reciprocity always takes place That's informational. This is the stuff that you teach people on next is aspirational Literally just giving people something to aspire to For me, I talk a lot about the death of my father. I'm very open about that I say it was the worst thing I've ever been through. It's the greatest thing that ever happened to me Because it took the greatest pain the greatest fear that I always remember growing up dreading and I got through it And I talk to people and teach them how to do that teach them how to understand grief how to process grief Most importantly how to feel grief so you can ultimately be delivered from it That gives people in a hard spot a tight spot something to strive for something to aspire to the whole point of being an Inspirational creator is to say this I've been through tough shit You can do it too. That's what aspirational is all about the last piece is relational This is kind of the more fun piece of content and there's a ratio with which I'll give you guys to break these down If you need a but how often do I be an informationalist how often do I be relational will get to that in a moment But the last piece the piece that seems to get me in the most trouble is being a relational creator. We're all humans. And I think the era of the influencer with the kick ass life that's totally out of touch of reality is dead. People want to feel connected to. They want to feel seen, heard and understood. And you do this through relational content. This content isn't necessarily something that's directly devoted to your brand. It's the thought you get when you're walking down the street. It's the stream of consciousness where you go, why the hell is that that way? And one of my most viral videos ever is a video on shopping cart theory. It's very simple. I think if you don't return your shopping cart, you're an asshole. And your life is probably in shambles. And that got a lot of controversy and a lot of traction. Now, did that help my brand? Did that create a straight line from that video to guarantee generated revenue? Probably not. But what it did is it showed millions of people my face. And I guarantee you, current creators, creators just getting started. It's gonna be a great side profile shot with a sweat dripping down my armpits. All of you looking to get started, you want to build a brand, you want to build something of value and trust. But I guarantee you, if 10 people saw your, 10 million people saw your face today, your life would change. So this is where relational content comes in. It's not about building a brand or speaking to your core audience. It's the things that don't make sense that you question about the world that give you real human connection potential. Shopping cart theory, people see that video. They go, yeah, you know what? Hell yeah, where they go, fuck this guy. Either way, they're gonna interact with my video and they're gonna see my face. And that's the essence of virality. The algorithm is just people. So when it comes to building a brand, these three pillars are very simple, informational aspirational relational. Informational is your home base. Remember, what is that? That's what you teach on, right? That's what you live on. 70 to 90% of your content. So seven to nine of every 10 videos, especially when you're starting out, 'cause you gotta build trust, is that informational pillar of content creation. Then you get into the aspirational 10 to 20% of your videos. Talk about your hardships. Talk about grief. Talk about vulnerability. Go there. Go to the place where you can connect with people on. Talk about your wins. Talk about your losses. And then relational, your human connection content. It's the stuff that really doesn't have anything to do with your brand, but it could be the very thing that pops overnight. Kapish? It's the part that's gonna confuse everybody. Everybody gets on social media with the intention to do what? Grow. We don't post, have zero followers, day one and day 365. Everybody wants to grow something. It's not about growth. I really don't believe it's about growth, and I believe the tighter you attach yourself to the desire to grow, the less you are gonna grow. My friend Nick Comedina has a beautiful quote. He says, "We live in a world that what we run from chases us and what we chase runs from us." And the more attached you are to a desired outcome, goal, or objective, I believe the harder it is going to be to get. For me, content was never about growth. It was about freedom. I had something I loved, more than anything in the world, health, self-development, longevity, and I had no one to talk about it with. Nobody cared. Rightfully so. We've all got our own hobbies, but it was isolating. I didn't know you could be a content creator. I didn't know what an influencer was. I needed a place to put my passion. One of my favorite pieces of scripture is Proverbs 13, 12, "Hope deferred, makes the heart sick, but a dream fulfilled is a tree of life." And for me, posting on the internet's banger, right? Proverbs, King Solomon, "Why is this man in history?" I needed a place to do what I loved. It felt like a dream, but I wasn't attached to any concept or modicum of growth. And as a byproduct, what I got from that was explosive growth. Posting content isn't about bless you. It's not about growing. It's about freeing you from yourself. It was a great creator named Justin Schumann, and he talks about how content is the ultimate exposure therapy for overcoming people pleasing. 'Cause I think the number one fear that plagues us is not the fear of failure. It's not the fear of rejection. It's not the fear of even winning. Some people are afraid of what they'd have to become if they succeed. It's the fear of being perceived. How are you gonna view me if I get up on this stage right now with all these eyes on me and my amygdala's firing, my fear center of my brain, and I say something stupid? What is that gonna mean about me? What are you gonna think of me? More importantly, what am I gonna think about me? Are you gonna confirm the deepest fear that I have about myself that I don't ever share, that I'm inadequate, that I'm not enough, that I'm not worth love, that I'm too much? These are all things that I dealt with, and content, and posting my thoughts, and going to the deepest, darkest parts of my heart, and being vulnerable and wearing that on my sleeve for the internet has delivered me from the fear that plagued my life for the first 27 years of it. And so if you go into this strictly to say, I want 10,000 followers, I want notoriety, I want fame, I want to make money, you're done. I think you're done, because when your efforts don't align with the pre-meditated expectation you have of the desired outcome, you will quit. That can't be what it's about, it's about growth, it's about impact, and it's about delivering you from your own biggest fears. The last piece I'll leave you with, it's the last thing, this is all you take from the talk today, it's a win. The last piece, when it comes to building your brand, it's very simple, you do not stop, you do not stop. I hear people all the time, Michael, I posted for three months, I posted for 30 days, I posted for a year, I posted for two years, and nothing happened, so I gave up. If I came to you, if a future version of yourself came to you and said, listen, Mia, you're gonna have everything you want in a year, but you gotta show up, you just gotta show up. You would do all of that work happily, because you knew it was at the end, it's gotta stick out for a year. Hell, if future me came to me in five years and said, you're gonna have a life of your dreams, I feel like I already do, but you gotta wait five years. You gotta post, you gotta train, you gotta connect with people, you gotta do more than is asked of you, you gotta get uncomfortable. I'd approach every day with optimism. I feel like there's a horseshoe in my ass, I feel so lucky, but I'd have to work for five years. You have nothing to gain from wondering if this is gonna work if I post for a year, you have everything to gain by assuming it will. So every time you get discouraged, you get down. I want you to pretend there's a future version of you telling you three more months, six more months, one more day, and you just don't stop. Remember, 90% of extraordinary success can be boiled down to doing the obvious thing for an extraordinary period of time. Keep showing up, keep posting, keep serving others, keep serving God, keep loving on people, and don't miss a day. Thank you. (audience cheering) Thank you guys, appreciate it, thank you. Also, I'm gonna hang out, there's only like 20 minutes, so for the rest of the hour, I'm more than happy to do a Q&A with you guys. That's how good is anybody have questions? I hope so, I did a shitty job, it's gonna be fine. Yeah, yeah, you gonna pass it around? All right, you're about to get some steps in. I'm just pouring sweat right now. Yes, yes, in the front. Did you go on the tour any time? Oh, yeah, forgot, yeah. For anyone who's in any one of the 13 cities, pinned on my Instagram post in the top left corner, across the US and Canada, I am hosting a tour, 13 seminars, in 13 cities in November and December, we're doing all of North America, so the US and Canada, from LA to New York, and everything in between, thank you. I hope to see you guys there. It's gonna be awesome, we're gonna talk about purpose, and how to lead a life of purpose through service, and I'll be doing more Q&As. - Thank you for your question. I think beyond everything you just talked through, one of the reasons you're successful, how articulate you are, so can you talk to us, about if that was something that you were naturally gifted at, or if you took classes, work with the coach, and learn to be as articulate as you are. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I get that question a lot. Part of the reason I'm able to get away with, frankly, poor production quality content is because I believe it's important to redefine quality as a creator. When I think of quality, oftentimes our mind goes to that nice camera, this high quality microphone, the lighting, the setting, the audio, but I believe we need to redefine quality, and quality often comes in the form of our spoken word. Life and death is in the tongue. It's incredibly important what you say, and more importantly, how you say it. So when it comes to refining your communication skills, I think a lot of people believe that it's this fixed skill set. I just, I have a stammer, I just get nervous, it's not. It's a muscle, and you can train it. It's a lot like a callus. The first time you guys, I'm assuming, based on what I'm seeing in the crowd, all work out pretty regularly, you get in the gym and your hands are soft, and the barbell hurts. Put it on your back, it hurts. Uncomfortable, it presses on your hands. And a few months in, you don't really notice it, you don't even think about it, and then you get these. You get calluses, you toughen, you harden. The way it doesn't get lighter, you just get tougher. Communication and public speaking is the same thing. It's a muscle, and you can train it, stretch it, and grow it. So I was not just able to always do this. I look at my first videos, fun fact. You can sort on TikTok by oldest, didn't know you could do that. So I got to go back and watch some of my videos. It's very cathartic, I was like, "Fucker has no idea what he's about to go through, geez." But I remember, I couldn't look at the camera. I was looking everywhere, the camera's down here, 'cause I didn't want anybody to see me. I'm stammering, I'm upwardly inflecting, because I'm super nervous. I'm talking like this all the time, 'cause I'm terrified. But I got comfortable through, at this point, I think I posted around 4,000 pieces of content in three years. So if you did anything 4,000 times, this guy knows he's bench press 4,000 times, you're gonna get a bigger chest. You speak 4,000 times into a camera in front of a crowd, it's gonna get easy. So I did take classes, I was formally educated. I don't talk about this a lot, but, I would graduated from a program of which there are only about 30 in the United States. It's called professional sales. So it's a bachelor's of business in any normal business school. But the focus is, they push you on stages like this and make you talk to the students. So this is all we did, tracking filler words, tracking your inflection in your voice. And so I was trained, also had a dad who was a remarkable public speaker who could own a room. So maybe I got to touch that from him. But it is something you can train. And this is why I encourage everybody to post online. There's a really cool challenge that I've been lucky enough to be a part of. It's tagged now the higher up wellness challenge. I think we've got over 100,000 people doing it. Where they post every day for 60 seconds, they look into the camera. It's one take, no cuts. Limit your filler words, speak about anything, and you got to do it for at least a month. And I know people who have gotten more comfortable on camera, blown up their followings, maybe not blown up. But they've said, one guy DM me the other day and said, hey, man, I did it for a year. I didn't blow up. But me and my wife communicate at such a deeper level now because I understand myself. I introspect it for a year straight every day. Thank you. And to me, that's the power of honing your communication. So you can help others understand you so you can understand yourself. You can't develop it. Does that answer your question? Cool. Anybody else? Right here. Hello, Dan. Hey, what's up, gap? I know a lot of people in the younger generation look up to me through to myself. If you could go back to your younger self around 20, 21 years old and give them one piece of advice, inside or outside of social media, what would that advice be? Someone just asked me this earlier. It's been coming up a lot. If I could give him any piece of advice, I would say two things. The first one, trust your gut. If everybody that you trust, that you love, that you care about, is telling you to go left. But in your gut, you're hearing go right. You got to go right. Every time I denied that feeling that was like here immediately about something, it bit me in the ass without fail. And I did that a lot when I was younger. Because, and I'll get to that second piece of advice in a moment, I cared so much about avoiding risk, about not putting myself out there, about what if this negative thing happens? I never once considered what if it all goes right. So younger me, I think it's really hard to have discernment and intuition. I think that's where a relationship with God is so important. I think it's where time alone is so important and good community. But to my point, if your community is telling you one thing and your heart is really telling you another, listen there. Because I really think that's how God speaks to us. So that's number one. Number two, you're gonna die. And this is morbid. But one of the things I'm most grateful for about my dad's passing is I moved home and I cared for him for seven months. And he got very sick, very fast. And it was horrific. It was traumatic. For lack of long explanation, we never got a diagnosis, but my dad died of liver failure. And if you need to know anything about liver failure, it's a nasty way to go. And I was a full-time hospice nurse by the end of it, administering morphine, checking on him. I even confirmed time of death. I went in, I checked the pupils, I checked his heart. What that taught me was the most powerful lesson I'll ever learn. That's why I say yes to crazy trips. It's why I'm not afraid to be vulnerable. Because I truly know the guy that I thought was 10 feet tall and bulletproof. And my biggest hero and my biggest idol, when he got to the end of his life when he was trapped in his body with a healthy mind, he was forced to replay the movie of his life over and over again. And all he did was think about the stuff he didn't do. And this is the guy that I thought lived the fullest life I'd ever seen. And he still had regrets. And so for me, if I could go back, I would tell that kid who avoided risk, who didn't try out for teams, who didn't put himself out there, because of his fear of being judged, that your hero is going to have regrets one day. You've got to empty the tank on your life. Empty the tank. That's what I would tell him. That helped. Cool. You need anybody else? I don't know. Wait, I hear a voice. Oh my god. That's weird, because it's behind me, but you're there. OK, hey. OK. [VIDEO PLAYBACK] So the question is, if you have a private account, what would you do then? Would you go public? Is that what you're asking me? Yeah, but how would you manage it? Or like, you're also protecting other people's privacy. Yeah, I mean, you could do what I did. I have a personal account. Don't go looking for it. I have a personal account that I've had since I was like 15. And I have higher up wellness. So you could just start a fresh one. And I get what you're saying. I wouldn't worry too much about it. But ultimately, my private account does have family. It has old animals. It has like friends. Higher up wellness doesn't. So you could just start fresh. Start over. Very simple. And then you don't have to post that stuff on that account. Is that helpful? OK. Get a question here. [VIDEO PLAYBACK] Wait, wait. For the class, please. [VIDEO PLAYBACK] That's a great question. Yeah, tactical vulnerability. There are a lot of things I'm seeing online about people going-- going to places with content that they know will get clicks that I would personally never go. I think ultimately, that comes down to discernment. You know, I talk a lot about my dad's passing. I don't talk a lot about my family and the names of my family. Everybody knows I have a mom. I have siblings. So I think it's ultimately going to come down to what you're trying to build. I want to continue to host events. I want to continue to build seminars. I want to continue to speak. And I think there's a line where it's no longer productive for you to know certain things about me. But I also, to anyone out there being a creator, the importance of authenticity is so that you're not caught on your heels in public if someone knows who you are. I'll give a silly example. After endurance races, like in three hours, every once in a while, I'll smoke a cigarette. It's like a celebratory face. It's just funny. It's like after a marathon smoke a cigarette. I hear a cheer back there. I've got an American spirit for you at 7 p.m. And it's just something I do once every once in a while. And I do that, and I post it. Because I don't want someone to go, you're the health guy. What are you doing smoking, you fucking phony? Because I know creators who actually do wear a mask online. And they have to keep that mask up in public when they grow. And if it slips, you're done. So I think anything that you feel could be found out that would be detrimental, that you want to share with the world. Maybe your friends know about you. It's great. But ultimately it's going to come down to your judgment. It makes sense? Cool. You got it. Thanks for being here. What's up, brother? [INAUDIBLE] That's such a good question. Kind of? No, I mean, everything-- hindsight's 2020. I think I was in cons to both. So I have a distinct last name, so you could argue. Maybe I could have built the brand off that. It's kind of tough to forget. But higher-up wellness has become a brand. So it's something to be known for. And actually, briefly, people ask me about this. I changed my name from higher-up wellness to Michael Smok on TikTok. But then I couldn't change it on Instagram, because it was a huge pain in the ass to switch my personal and my public so hard. And then the higher-up wellness challenge comes so big, but frankly, I wanted the brand association. So I swapped. So I think it's important that I make a distinction, like every episode of the podcast, to say I'm your host, Michael Smok. I don't say I'm your host, I don't know if all of this. But it's been helpful, because people can just come out to being go, higher-up. It's a recognition thing, even if they're not totally sure. So I think there's pros to building a brand independent of your name that's easy to remember. Like, higher-up just seems to be something that's really easy for people to remember. And I think there's an advantage to that. So I am working to transition more to just Michael Smok. Make that more of the brand. So that's a really great question. I saw hands in the back, can we-- I've got a mic. Harrison? I know your voice. Over the last three years, do you feel like this experience of growing as much as you have and helping people to help you define your purpose? And how would you work to make it so? Great question. I just noticed there are so many people here. Thank you. Thank you guys for being here. This means so much to me. You guys need to be doing so many things. I love you guys. I love you. Thank you guys. This is awesome. Hey, what's up, dude? Purpose. Purpose is a funny word. I think that's one of the most commonly asked questions I get is, how do I find my purpose? Like, it's very treasure on a mountaintop, where it's X marks the spot. But I think purpose is a dynamic. It's not a destination. It's not something you arrive at and find. And when I started, I just posted health content. Because that's what I cared about. And then I started to go through shit. I started to live life. I encountered grief and breakups and relationships and more grief. And I realized that I felt I had more I could speak on. And so if you asked me two years ago what my purpose was, it was to help people get in shape and get the body that they've always wanted. That'll always be a piece of it. It's the first pillar for most people. But when you tell me to help me find my purpose, I think, and this is the topic of really the whole tour. I think a life of purpose is really a life rooted in service. And everybody's searching for purpose and meaning and fulfillment. And Jesse's wife Sarah has this great graphic, at least I first heard it from her about what purpose really is. And it's the working for memory here. So forgive me if I butcher it. Purpose is the intersection of something you like, something you're good at, and a need in the world. and in that is what she got. because the purpose is zone. Zone is an important word. It's not a thing, it's an area. So I knew what could I do? I could speak well, talk, I could yap. I knew sales, so I could be convincing with my communication. I loved health, so that's what I loved. That's what I was good at. And there were a lot of fat people who didn't want to be fat. Hold on, I think I've got something here. And so the first purpose was born. So I think, did it help me find it? No, but does it help me continuously move to the dynamic and arrive in a new version of it every day and every month and every year? Absolutely, no doubt, great question. Who's next? In the back to cut off, can we make the mic all the way back there? I want everybody to be able to hear you. So just hang time for that microphone. I want to shout out, as I keep doing, our athletes still on their own, they're still driving, still struggling, still working their way. Wait, wait, speak up just a little bit. So I can hear her. So what's your opinion on it? And considering the growth of yourself, right? Not that earlier, but it's also having-- [INTERPOSING VOICES] Versus putting all things off, burning the bones and hoaxing all on them. And you're the pressure of the world. I love this question. Don't quit your fucking job. Oh my gosh. Sorry, I'm not that guy. I'm not that like, go all in. Have a plan. For the love of God, have a plan. Now, there are people I know that have done that, and they fucking crushed. There's something to be said. And this goes back to what I said. This whole talk, you're not all going to gain everything from this talk. Take what you need, leave what you don't. I don't believe in that. I think when you hear people who made it work, oftentimes you're dealing with survivorship bias. For everyone that made it, there's 10 that didn't. I had a year's worth of income saved up that I knew this doesn't work. I could pay rent and eat for 12 months. I had made sure that I had really solid relationships in corporate. One of the last things my old mentor and boss said to me is that go for it, that doesn't work, call me. And I talked to my parents. And the last thing I heard before I made the decision to quit 15 days after I started a new job was my dad saying you've landed on your feet and everything else you've done. I would now be any different. And that was really meaningful. I have the ultimate privilege in life, which is that I was raised by two parents who loved me. They cared about me, and I know that's a privilege. So overall, there needs to be a bit of a plan. I think you can argue that if you go all in, you have a ton of energy to devote. And there is something for putting your back against the wall and making it work. I'm all for that in some aspects of life. For me personally, I needed a net. And that could just be income. Having liquid income in case, in the meantime, or in case you take a dip, having something to fall back on and being a little bit calculated. Because I worked for 60 to 90 days in corporate while I was building this brand. Last thing, almost forgot. I have a proof of income. I had a goal. I wrote this down because part of my brand at the time and still is talked about how important it is to keep the promises that we make to ourselves. And so on, my goal was always make my salary. Like if I could match my salary without commission, I was in sales, I'll figure it out. That's enough. And on July 21st, my dad's birthday of 2023, I made a little bit of money online for a consecutive month. I could decent chunk of change, $3,000. I went, "All right, there's something here." And so, I went, "Well, I'm going to keep the promises you make to yourself, guy, I gotta fucking walk the walk." I wrote on a piece of paper, write your goals down. You're 41% more likely to achieve your goals if you write them down. I wrote down if I make $5,000 more dollars before the end of the month, I have to quit my job. Why did I pick $5,000? Because it was a number I didn't think I could hit. And I really didn't want to have to fucking quit my job. I was scared. I was really scared. And then, 36 hours later, I made $5,000, and I went, "Fuck." Now, I don't share that, for any other reason, other than to remind you the power of writing your goals down. I made more money in a day than I did in the prior two months. And I really think the intention I called to is why. But that gave me proof of income. I went, "All right, I got $5,000. I can fucking figure it out." Does that answer your question? Yeah, and follow up, how's your dating life change as your social presence? I had to go there. That's a really interesting question. How is my dating life changed? What dating life? No, it-- I mean, I just-- I don't think it has. I don't think it has. Maybe that's ignorant of me, probably. But I think I'm really proud to be able to say that what you see is what you get when you see the page is me. When you meet me, it's me. And I don't think I have anything to hide. I went through this period where I thought, you think of the-- and what if it's for the fuck? I'm not important of dust. It doesn't matter. I'm just a guy. And so ultimately, I haven't changed my perspective. It kind of goes back to-- what do I have to gain from thinking, like, whole dating's different now, because I have a number on an Instagram. That's stupid. That doesn't benefit me and might deter me from finding love because I'd be closed off. So I view it the same as I did when I was making cold calls at Miller Technologies in North Cross, Georgia. I don't have a lot to say to name. Nothing has changed. For me, maybe that's ignorant, but I would say it seems to work, but now, to be determined. Hope that helps. David, you've got a loud voice. Can you carry? I'm question for you, which you're obviously freaking awesome. Everybody here doesn't-- Thank you. I love you. What value does the guy like you get from coming to your pet like this? And on the other side, what value does somebody who doesn't have a following isn't trying to go on social media again from coming to your pet like this? Oh, thank god he asked. I actually met David at Running Man two years ago while I was sitting in an ice bath, he interviewed me. We had no idea which other it was. And then this year, he calls me on my birthday. It tells me he loves me. So let that be the example of how powerful these events are. Total strangers, and only call each other on a birthday, to tell them we love each other. That's the power. I think in a world where we're so connected, we've never felt more alone. Everybody's dealing with isolation, depressions at all time highs, and I really think it's because we're far from the human form. Really far from it with these boxes of doom. They've changed my life, but they're also poison. I just got back from Southwestern Russia where you can't text. You can't access social media. I was completely unplugged. I was with nine other creators. And we didn't talk about work once. We just experienced the culture of Russia. It was so foreign to us. It was the most beautiful experience in my life. We've joked the whole time. I feel like a human again. And your service here in Rome, Georgia, it's not great. And there's so much stimulus going on. You don't feel compelled. I don't know about you all, but I haven't hit my daily doom scroll yet. I'm pretty proud of that. It's because there's so much going on. And so I think community, from a business perspective, I think the world is headed towards events. I'm transitioning my business to IRL in 2026, or seven hosting events and hosting retreats. And this event in 2024 changed my life. Coming here as a brand new creator and getting to be on this stage for the second year in the row in a row, meet people like him. I have so many friends in this crowd right now that I would never have met if I didn't come here. And I get to collide my world. I've got my friends from Atlanta and Run Club here. Got my internet friends. Got my friends from all over the world from California. Like everybody gets to meet. This is the human experience. This is what we are meant and wired to do. And so whether you have a following or not, this event will change your life. Tonight's going to be epic. The run and pushing yourself, you have more miles. That's going to be epic. And you truly get out what you put in. This motherfucker goes up and talks to everybody he sees and approaches them with love. He's everybody's favorite person because he's full of love. And so that's why I love running in and why I love you. Thank you for asking. Great question. [APPLAUSE] Right here in the sunglasses. Oh. Also, I don't know how much-- if I'm going over, just stop me. OK. It's a little louder. I'm sorry. [INAUDIBLE] Yeah, I think it can be tough when my life is built on how often I check the dopamine factory. It can get you pretty detached. And these apps are engineered and wired to keep you on them. And it's addictive and it can really pull me out of my body, pull me out of the present. And so I think there's a couple things that come to mind. Community, we're here right now. This is a really good way for me to unplug. Every year, I take a big trip that's intense and uncomfortable and inconvenient, typically, it's with my best friends. Been to Patagonia at the bottom of the Earth, Lafotan Islands at the top of the Earth, the Arctic Circle. And then just got back from Dagestan in Southwest in Russia with actually that guy right there in the Black shirt Gabriel. Just got back from the trip with me. We had some incredible breakthroughs. It was so powerful. Trips like that that really force you into two things. Number one, just natural human form, drinking from a river every day. I'm bathing in that river. I'm sleeping in a tent. I'm waking up at the sun and falling with the moon. Stuff that just gets me back to actual human base. And outside of that, I would say physical effort. I hate running. I hate running. I do it because I hate it. And because I think there's a unique subconscious or conscious experience that someone has. When you push your body physically for a long time, you just go to places in your mind that you can't manufacture. I always say, as a guy who notoriously struggled with self-worth and self-confidence, the first time I ever believed in myself was the moment I crossed the finish line of my first marathon, faster than gold time. I remember thinking, for the first time ever, I can do anything. You can do anything if I just prepare and I train. So getting connected with the earth. Because when I'm connected with the earth, I'm connected to myself and I'm connected to God. I feel really close to God when I'm out there. Physical effort. And then time in the word, I read the Bible. I have really strong faith-based friends like Jack, like Dom. We have a Bible study that I go to in California. I find that as soon as I move to a new place 'cause I move a lot. Those three things. things, I would say make me very connected and then keep the inspiration of creativity rolling. If I can give myself full permission, this is important. If I can give myself full permission to leave that space of creativity and content and absent to disappear, it can feel scary because I'm leaving the thing that breeds my success and go all the way into those experiences, I can show up better when I get back. Is that answer your question? Beautiful. Alright, who's next? Someone has a microphone. Thank you. What a compliment. In a world where that is, like you said, for life, I think I've been sent to this small hall and I've seen, there's people coming up. It's very squadier. They all get all fired. I know, I know your squad, that's shit. My voice. I don't rock you, though. But I want to know, is you have like a bunch of opinions, and I love that? What? What are you talking about? I just want to hear from you, like, how did you become so good at creating a quality of experience, but now there's something that you continue to kick through the phone, and in person, and just connecting, because that is, like, what this event is, that was just a lot, a lot of quality people together. One word, conviction. A mentor said to me before my first sales meeting, 23 years old, fresh out of college, I was nervous as shit, and he said, quote to me, I'll never forget, he said, remember, conviction and clarity is perceived by those who hear it as competence and confidence. Speak with conviction, like you believe what you're being told, or what you're telling, rather, and you speak clearly, you know how to communicate. People are going to perceive you as competent and confident, but a layer beyond that is, the root of conviction is the byproduct of lived experience. I'm able to have these controversial opinions, because it's a byproduct of my life. I'm able to tell people, get the fuck out of your own way and stop being lazy. There's no excuse to be young and fat. People get mad when I say that. But I was young and fat, and I hated myself, because I knew the shame that I was feeling, which society blunts, we want to ignore shame. It's like any other emotion, it's a message. It is when your morals are out of integrity with your actions. And I don't bury shame. And I remember feeling ashamed, because I knew how I could show up, did not align with how it's supposed to show up, or how I was showing up. And so when I got fit, I realized people treated me differently. Is that fair? No, is it true? Yes. I realized I treated myself differently, because I was showing up for myself, keeping promises to myself, doing things I didn't want to do. That's the root of confidence. The root of confidence is evidence. And so I built confidence through building evidence, and I built conviction through living through hardship. I talk about taking care of your health, and I'm shamelessly angry, as people would say about it, because I watched the guy that I love more than anything put his health second for his life, and as a result, he left a family behind early. That's my life. I had to go in and confirm the time of death with my father. I don't care if you think I'm a little harsh, because I'm telling you to show up for your kids, to take care of yourself for your kids. I don't care. You can think what you want of me, but you can't say I'm wrong. And if the way I deliver it isn't for you, as my dad used to say, that's why Vaskin Robbins has 31 flavors, go find yours. I'm not for everybody, but Oliver Emberton is a great quote that I think about all the time, and I think about the midst of when I'm in the middle of online controversy, said if you're not pissing anybody off, you're probably not doing anything very important. You're never going to be liked by everyone. Stop trying. You might as well be disliked the things you truly believe and stand on, and that's how I get to the community that I have today. I hope that answers your question. Thanks, boys. Thank you. I can't tell where the voices are coming from. Hello? Who's here? How do you do with those? Great question. I think I can tell you. Take the Gogans approach. Get over it. Do it anyway. Sure. That's got some merit. Earlier I alluded to systems versus disciplines. You don't need to have the discipline. We talk this could be a question of do you have the discipline to show up when you don't feel like it? I believe in building systems that work independent of how you feel. I think we live in a society that glamorizes and glorifies grand gestures and huge goals and 75 hard and reading a book a week. I'm going to have no processed foods and no sugars. I'm going to walk 25,000 steps a day. It's people that have never done any of these things before, and they're trying to sprint when they never even crawl. So I think we are always reaching for ceilings in societies. We're reaching up. We're trying to grab these big goals, but I want to encourage people. I want to encourage you to find your floors. What can we reach down and touch no matter what we have going on? What is the baseline minimum level of compliance that you know? What's your name? Alejandro. When I Alejandro wake up in the morning and the last thing I want to do is anything I know I'm supposed to do, can I still do it? That's what I'm constantly solving for in my life. I could have maybe gotten in shape faster if I followed a five day split into the cardio, but I chose three days walking 10,000 steps hitting my protein goal because I knew I could do that 100% of the time with my content. It's always been one video a day. Always because I know no matter what I've got 10 seconds, a minute, three minutes doesn't matter. One of my most viral videos ever is 11 seconds long. Everyone's got 11 seconds. You don't have 11 seconds for your life. You don't have a life. So when I made the bare minimum, the thing that could change my life, honestly, for lack of a better term, compliance became effortless and thoughtless. And beyond that, the beautiful part of finding your floors is that oftentimes what happens when we achieve goals is we get a surge of dopamine. I know you guys are all those stepfines. You see that 10,000 hit and you're like, yes. Now what happens when we hit a goal and we hit a dopamine, we get a positive feedback loop. And oftentimes we end up doing a little bit more because it makes dopamine makes effort feel good. So I'm setting the bar technically low so I can achieve dopamine quickly. So oftentimes as the bar is one video, I post my want to go, fuck it, I feel good. Let's just do another one. And then before I know what I posted five times a day for three years. So my answer to you is this. Stop looking for the discipline and find the floor compliance for everything in your life that makes consistency easy. Make sense? Cool. Who's next? In the back. Can I? Yeah. Yeah. Oh my God. I feel like I owe the first 50 people that ever paid me a handwritten apology. I was such a mess. It was personal training. And I was charging I think $149 a month. Where did I get that number? I don't know. And that's another thing. If you're wondering how to price your product, just like pick a number. That's the sign. And I wrote up a PDF with a training program and I emailed it to them and gave them all my personal phone number. Really bad idea. And it was horrific. It was so bad. It was a terrible offer that I fumbled through and bumbled through and eventually built something that was much more refined. And so the first I ever made on social media was a cool feeling because it was the first time I went holy shit. I said something and someone just paid before it. And everybody's got that skill set. And if you don't, you can build it oftentimes I get asked like how did you learn what you know so it's easy. I just spend five years alone in the car driving to college and to work and absorb a thousand hours of podcasts. You can do it. Give yourself some time. So I built a skill set and then through the skill sets and the knowledge that I was obsessed with for so long with no visible outlet. I was able to put it on the internet to where someone paid me $149 and it was as meaningful as the hundred thousand dollar I made online. It's a gift and a privilege. If you have strangers on the internet willing to compensate you for your thoughts, you should not take that for granted. So I hope that answers your question. Damn it. I hate this. Oh, yeah, can you throw your hand up? Thank you. So how do you get over a cost of syndrome and then the second part to this is my wife and I, we have years ago, they are speaking about problems. We live in Mumbai from 20 countries 40, so we speak about states. It's really kind of separate for our brands. But people love what we do. So we keep doing our own thing. We'll find the brand and do something together and build that brand as a model. I don't even figure out that. So two part question. Imposter syndrome, brand strategy. Correct? Okay. I'm going to answer the first one about around imposter syndrome. It's an interesting, it's an interesting concept. I mean, every once in a while, I think, like, what in the block am I doing? Like, what is this? Why do people listen to what I have to say? I get that. I think it's probably going to be a bit of an unusual answer. Before I had a big interview, it was the first, like, big guest I'd interviewed that I just was really excited to talk to. It was Jesse. It was for my podcast and I was like, shit, this guy is the reason I started Musogi in 2018 and now I'm going to talk to him. And that's just the truth. I was nervous and I was like, why me? Like, how did I get here? And my coach said something to me about success that he thinks there's a power in remaining blissfully unaware of how well things are going at any given time. In the Bible, there's a lot of references to being childlike. Matthew 183 says, be like the children for they will inherit the kingdom of heaven. And a lot of that has to do with faith and belief. But when I think about what I was like when I was six, I didn't wonder what you were going to think about me if I was six years old and I ran up on this stage and jumped. I don't care. I was pure of heart. The world hadn't imposed any programs, shame, their beliefs onto me yet. And I think that's one of the superpowers of remaining childlike and what. my Christ calls us to do it is because in that childlike faith and creativity, that playfulness is abundance. And when you remain childlike, you're not constantly weighing your ego against the heaviness of the event. Oh, am I worthy of it? It doesn't matter if you're worthy of it. You're probably not because you're just a person. It doesn't matter. But if you were seven years old, you would just operate at a pure inspiration from your heart. And so that's where I look at things now. What would seven year old me think? Probably nothing at all. Go up on stage. Just have fun with it. Be playful. And so if we're constantly questioning the idea of, am I worthy of this? Am I capable of this? I believe we need to silence the ego. The ego is getting too big. And we need to step into a place of childlike playfulness and creativity. TLDR ain't that deep. Don't ever make it that deep. I think guys like Jesse are so connected, inspiration and so playful. This is a big playground for him for a weekend and two thousand people showed up. He's not gritting and whitenuckling and worried about everything constantly. He's having a blast. And I think he's a really great example of childlike abundance and faith in what he does. And a big inspiration for me. So the last piece, brand combination, I'll be honest, I don't know the brands. So I don't know where the synchronicities is. That would probably be a little more in depth of a conversation. My answer instinctually is always, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. If you've got a beautiful thing, you can continue to build independently and come together when you feel like it. It sort of goes back to post everything. I tell people to post everything because you never know what'll pop. But you have your core, you have your brand, you have your brand. But then you have people who love each of you. No one would love to see you collaborate. So if you want to do both, just do both. Just post content together, doing a vent together, but also building independently. You don't have to pick. Maybe I'm ignorant for that, but I just don't think you have to. I hope that helps. Let's just smoke over here. How we doing? Let's have to. I, Michael, first of all, I just thought it sounded huge inspiration to me. You can just set the tone for what it means to be able to be not only influencer, but somebody who preaches their mind on social media the right way. Thank you. Doesn't look back. Doesn't really find anybody else things. I think everyone here has an utter respect for you, looks out for you, just looks up to you as a man. Now, with that being said, what are like two or three people that you look up to and you're like that? It's a really good question. You know, my dad will always be my hero always. He had a way of connecting with people and making them feel super important. It's just like when you were talking to me or the only person in the room with him. And so he'll always be a beacon for how I live. I think when I look at people like, like Jess, and the way that he's able to take what he loves and make a living out of it, I think that everyone has that capability. And I need to be reminded of that. I'm living in it. I love what I do. But every once in a while, my brain goes, do I deserve this? How am I going to do this? Am I going to figure this out and pulls me out of that playful state? So people I look up to, it might be a little cliche, but there are people in the space that I've looked up to for a long time that I've had the chance to meet. And I think the best answer I can give you is that I realize that this is going to sound simple. They're all just people. They've all got their own issues, their own traumas, their own unprocessed traumas, their own insecurities. And they're just like you and me. Now they put their pants on one leg at a time and have their morning coffee just like us. And so it pulled idolatry out of my life, which actually in the Christian faith idolatry is a sin. And really it's to protect us because we realize we're all just humans. Nobody's perfect. Nobody really knows more than you. We're all just trying to figure out the hell out. And so I admire things like Jesse and what he's built. I admire a lot of my friends that are here that they probably don't even know it. If they don't, I'm going to make sure I tell them before the end of the weekend. But ultimately, I think the best lesson I've learned from being in rooms with people I once idolized is to realize that nobody's worth looking up to. And I mean that in the best way. I'm not nobody is. And I try to get my wisdom just from time and solitude, time and prayer and realize like everybody's just a person. We can all build a life on a wildest dreams. I know that's not a specific answer, but I hope it works. I love it. Perfect. Thank you. There was. Got you. That's time for one more. Yeah. We got five minutes. Right here. Yesterday we talked a little bit about the relationship of God and relational part of it. And we spoke about what you went through with your father. And the Bible talks about God being in the front of the party. So I'm curious for a long journey. Did that? What did that look like? We really grasped the relational part. Yeah. Yeah. Two things come to mind. I think the moment I actually surrendered and gave my life to God and gave my life to Christ was the moment. It was probably late October. My dad went in for a procedure. And I'll try to keep this quick. So we have time for one more question. My dad went in for a procedure that was supposed to alleviate his symptoms and we thought we're going to send things relatively back to normal three hour surgery. It's called a tips procedure. It was supposed to be a stint in the liver. Thirty minutes after he goes under, I get a phone call from the hospital, hang your dad's on surgery. And I immediately, my gut, I go, that's all right. This is supposed to be three hour surgery. And by this point, he had lost about 50 pounds. He was depending on me for the basics feeding, he was getting bad. I thought he was going to get better. And I go to the hospital and we're waiting for the radiologist to come in. And he says, good news. Your dad's liver's okay. And he says it just like this in the tone I'm about to share with you. Good news. Bad news. The portal vein we were going to operate on is obliterated. It's totally destroyed. I've never seen anything like this. There's nothing we can do. Good luck. And he walked out. And that was the moment we found out that my dad was going to die. And one of the worst days of my life. And I realized after four months of battling with nutritionists, of taking him to five six appointments a week of battling with him, trying to change his seven year old man's habits, I realized that a lot of the pain that I was feeling was from my desire to try to manipulate the outcome. It's like I was holding a hot pan and going, oh, this is burning me. And all I had to do was put the pan down. I remember in my car, this is a very vulnerable moment, but I just broke down and I was like, I'm done. Actually, that man back there, Gabriel Pinto said something shortly before that. I wasn't ready to hear. He said, what if your dad dying is God's will for your life? And I was not ready to hear that. And it pissed me off. He was right because I've been able to take the worst thing that I've ever been through and help people with their breakthroughs. And so he met me right there. And it was shortly after that. I saw a piece of scripture, James chapter one, verse two through four, it says, counted all joy in my brothers when he faced trials of many kinds because you know the testing of your faith produces perseverance. Perseverance run its course so that you may be complete and lacking nothing. And now in hindsight, life makes sense in reverse. I miss him every day. I'd give anything for five more minutes, but the purpose and fulfillment that helping people through grief and hardship as a result of leaning on God for supernatural peace has been the most fulfilled I have ever felt in my life. And that's how I built my relationship with him. I hope that answers the question. Thank you for listening. Oh, you didn't have that choice. What's up, Harrison? I'm talking about your journey of your career as what serial learning has been like for you, that process and how it's changed from a how much content there is, one thing in every topic now, consuming it versus digesting it. Yeah, yeah. What that looks like and how to approach it daily. Insumption versus application versus are you mindlessly consuming or are you consuming too much? I look at all my friends who create content, even those who don't and draw inspiration from them. And I really believe in trying and experimenting. I think one of the very best in the game at this, he's here somewhere, wearing his hat, Johnny Person, is the guy's a machine. He tries everything. He tries different formats. He speaks on different topics. So I look at Johnny and I draw a lot of inspiration from someone like him, whether it's a specific topic that I also want to riff on or the formatting or the style of speech. So I think it's important to pick a couple sources of information. This is for everything in life. With fitness, I have like two or three typical go-to's of sources and resources. And I try not to stretch too far beyond that because I think after that, you just get into analysis paralysis. It's just too much information with which you do nothing. At the end of the day, I think it's always most important to go with my gut and do what I want because if I listen to people who told me the talking head was saturated or didn't work, I wouldn't be right here answering this question. So ultimately, my gut and what feels right, whether it makes sense or not, is always indicator number one. And then I just pick like two or three creators or two or three fitness resources or scientists. And I take notes from those guys and gals and draw inspiration from them, whether they know it or not. They probably see me copycat them a few times. But that's how I approach it. I think less is typically more and keeping it really simple and lean is best. Got it. I think we're at the top of the hour guys. It's three o'clock. Thank you for spending time with me. I love you guys. Thank you to my friends for being here. Bye guys. Thank you all.