How to Build a Cult Following from scratch - $900 to $10Million brand with NO investors | Pia Mance of Heaven Mayhem

You have shared in the past that you didn't pay yourself a wage. Yeah. Having my hem. Has that changed now? No. I see what I'm going to pay myself. And I think like when I look at the numbers and the P&L, I'm like, OK, this money could go in my pocket. For what? Like, what am I going to spend it on right now? Have you ever wondered how to build that brand that everyone is wearing? Today's guest, Kia Manz, is the founder of Seven Mayhem. She has built the most cult following I've ever seen for a fashion brand. She curated the most luxury earrings. And every single person out there in the wild is wearing them. She has curated this though through really intentional branded moments. Every single detail she thinks about to the max. So we're going to break down how she has built this brand following, how she actually gets paid, and how you can do it too. Welcome, Pia Manz, to Unstoppable Success. Thanks for having me. Excited we could finally sit down. I know. I'm so excited to chat with you because you're an Aussie out here in LA just making waves. When did you actually move out here? I moved here in January 2022. Yeah. Yeah. What made the move? My husband was like desperate to come to the US. He had been for a couple of years. We were living in London. Oh. And I was like, ah, fine. Like, fine. We can move to LA for five years. That's it. And then we're going straight to Sydney. That's the deal. Yeah. And then we're going to London. If I can be typing away doing something and then I can jump in, film, and out, and then go back to a meeting. And it's just really time efficient. So why wouldn't I just do that since I'm good at it versus paying someone loads of money or someone taking a really long time? So that's how it kind of naturally happened. And now I guess sure I'm the face. I do a lot of podcasts and press and stuff, but I also really try and amplify the team. So everyone is a part of it on our TikTok. And we all have like, we do vlog takeovers, like, different people in the team do a takeover. Everyone's involved. We try and I try and get as many team members to do like little articles themselves. Like often our brand manager will get featured in things and she'll talk about the brand. I don't need to be the face. And I think now what I'm building is PM Ants as a personal brand who can build Heaven Mayhem, who can invest here, who can do this. So it's kind of like I'm trying to set myself up as like a leader in this industry, I guess, rather than like only Heaven Mayhem face. Yeah. What do you want to be known as? I want to be known as, well, I don't really love the word entrepreneur. What's the thing with that word? I don't know. I just feel like it's a little busy. Busy what I mean? Yeah. It's like, I love it. Everyone's an entrepreneur. Yeah. But I think I just want to be known for making impactful brands and helping other people build brands. So now are you going to be doing more in helping others? Yeah. That's what I'm trying to do. I do a bit of angel investing. And then I just love meeting people who are starting stuff that I'm interested in and meeting other founders and seeing where I can help. And I really enjoy doing that. Alongside Heaven, obviously. But I've just learnt so much that it's just so easy to apply skills or have a great conversation and help out because I'm like, literally, I've been there quite literally. I have been there. OK. Are you mostly doing fashion brands? Are you-- No fashion brands. That's not really something I'm focusing on at the moment, especially clothing. Just like, have a really dip my toe into that. But I'm just looking at all different kind of sectors. Like, for example, I'm invested in Shot My, which is an app. Yeah. Or it's like a tech affiliate, you know? I'm invested in part olive. I've invested in Chroma and things like this. Like maybe-- Yeah, I'm looking at several other opportunities. Yeah. I've seen all of the part olive ads as well. Yeah, she's always-- --a lot of the best products. Like, makes your skin glow. OK, I'm going to forget on to it. Yes. Yeah. No, but that's awesome. And do you find that by investing in these companies, you can then collaborate through your brand as well? Yes, but I don't do it for that. And I don't like-- that's not like a condition of investing. Yes, of course. I, for example, like, might love that brand, but it just doesn't align with what Heather Mayhem's saying at that time. So it just kind of depends. And I think I don't want-- I want Heather Mayhem to live outside me. And so I don't want it to be like, they're all in the same bag as a deal, you know? Definitely. How does angel investing work? Because I know there's so many different ways. And it's really constant to how you want to do it. But how do you find works for you in terms of how you like to make the deals? And there's loads of different ways. But I either invest my money. And then I just kind of like take my money and go have fun with it and like make a good business. And then I also invest advisory for equity. So I'll help out. And I will connect them with people or help with events or just like be a sounding board and like really contribute. So really just depends. And then I think like people expect if you do invest, that your investors want the best for you. So they will just answer every call and stuff. But it apparently just is not the case. But I'm just kind of like that. So I kind of do that anyways. But a lot of people don't. Yeah. Well, that's awesome. Just being able to share all your wisdom and your knowledge. And also I learn so much. It's like really fun for me. It's like instead of investing in like a hobby or like loads of handbags, I would prefer to do that. Like I actually really enjoy it. Yeah, it's like the game of business. Yeah. Do you find there's difference quite a lot of differences in the brands or do you feel like there's kind of a common theme of similar challenges that founders have, regardless of if it's more like tech, product, or swimmer? It's been quite different for now. But I think there's definitely those problems that everyone faces that is like not an easy fix. But it's like that's fine because everyone goes through that. And here's some things you can kind of add in. What are some of the common challenges you've found in your journey? And also-- I think like logistics and operations, I think a lot of founders have the product vision. And this is just from like speaking with friends and like everyone that I come across. A lot of people like branding, content, vision. Like this is where I want to take it. And then when it comes to like hiring or logistics or like even customer service, it's like, ugh, that's a problem. Kind of the boring. Yeah. But yeah. Half of it. We've done otherwise no one gets their product. Exactly. How does your team look in that sense? Because obviously your super power is the branding, the visuals. How does your team look in terms of Heaven Mayhem? And then also your personal brand is it separate teams? We have-- No, I don't have separate teams really. I just have one team at Heaven Mayhem. And we have people across e-commerce, branding, marketing, content, wholesale. And I work across everything. I do like a one-on-one with everyone in the team. I would prefer to spend majority of my time in content and branding and stuff. And I spend a lot of my personal time. We work from home every Thursday. And then on my weekends and Thursdays, I spend a lot of my time designing and ideating concepts and planning. And in the other days, I wish I spent all my time on shoots and branding, but I really spend my time in whatever is needed. Like a lot of e-com stuff, a lot of up stuff. I'm across everything. When I started the brand, I did everything myself, which is like, what I say every time I get the chance, I'm like, start a brand. And however you do it, just make sure you know everything. Because I just know so much now. And I'm not the best at it, but I seriously could-- I'm pretty good at everything in the business. So it's really nice that I'm not like incompetent. Or I'm like, I've got no idea. That's so scary. I'm like, no, I can do that. That's fine. How important do you think it is that people know all areas of their business before they outsource? Whether it's-- I find a lot of people outsource to add agencies. And then money's just going down the drain. Or outsource to logistics. And then have no idea if that person quits everything falls down. Exactly. I think it's so important. And it's just difficult, because it's like, you hear all the time, like, lean into your superpower and outsource for the things you aren't good at, which is true. And you should. Because if you're really good at something, why would you waste your time trying to learn finance or ops? But at the same time, you do need to have an understanding. Because when these people quit, it does fall on you. And unless you have a co-founder or something, what is the choice? So unfortunately, you just have to do it all at once. Yeah. Especially the money piece. Yeah. I find particularly a lot of women that I speak to. And even myself, the first six months-- so I started out with a swimwear brand. The first six months, I didn't look at the money at all. And then I just accidentally emptied my bank account. Because I had no budget. I had no-- I was just spending and putting all the things in place to grow the brand and the marketing. But I find a lot of women don't look at the numbers. Yeah. I was kind of doing that. I've always been really good with money and saving and stuff. But I've liked my husband maybe six months, eight months in. I'm like, do you think this is a problem? I don't even have a P&L. Sometimes I'd make a quick P&L on Excel and be like, yeah, I'm good. And he's like, well, as your bank account, going up and down, I'm up. And he's like, then you're fine. But then after a year, I actually put in proper measures. And now it's really great that I know every expense. And I'm like, you know, can play around with budgets or tell people they're going over. But yeah, I'm very like, if you told me a price for something, I would be like, that's either never going to happen. Or we need to have it because of this. And like, it is the way it is. Because we sell funded. So we don't have like a lot of cash to play with. Yeah. OK, let's talk about that. Because being so funded obviously is great, because it means you own 100% the company. What was the decision around that? Why did you decide not to get funding? I mean, I think you can kind of tell like, I'm not like, this was my strategy. And I've done this, this, and this. I'm not trying to make out that I'm like, dumb and clueless. Like, I definitely know what I'm doing. Yeah. But I just haven't really like a lot of these things have fallen into place perfectly. I've worked on them as I'm going. And rather than like, this is how it's going to set up from the beginning. But from the beginning, I'm making 12 necklaces. Like, who's going to fund me for that? Yeah. Like, literally, I'm making them and bought a printer on Amazon and like set up a Shopify account. So I do really need funding. And then as the business has grown, we have been able to remain profitable and grow at a rate where we haven't needed any money yet. That might change. And like, I always have conversations with people. But I'm a little bit hesitant because of just like the way I love to run my business. I'm involved in everything. I'm very direct. I just like love to do things. way. And so I'm just a bit hesitant of bringing someone in and I think people are like so enamored by like shiny money I guess and like funding and raising which is obviously incredible and like really depends on the business. But for me I just haven't really felt drawn to do that. Yeah I mean it might change because I do want to grow but yeah until now I haven't felt any. Yeah if someone's thinking about getting investors because it is very sexy at the moment there's a lot of talk around VC then we had Shark Tank that kind of put it on the map with the investing. What decisions or what things should people be thinking about if they are deciding between self-funding or getting investors on board? I feel like I'm not the most equipped to talk on this but I do think you just need to remain true like is the investor strategic investor you just kind of taking the money and you can decide all the decisions how involved are they going to be what's their experience. I think for me I would probably want someone with experience in growing a jewelry brand for example this VC funds out there who have invested in Missouri. Missouri is like a maybe 300 million dollar company. I'm not sure but that would be interesting to me because I'm like okay they have retail experience potentially these investors have retail experience blah blah blah blah but like that's not guaranteed like they could have just given the money and then Missouri could have had the most incredible team so I think you'd need to do your due diligence and your research and figure out what they can bring to the table it's also like a marriage like it's not just money and you're not getting 300,000 to 20 mil to just you know play with yeah they're breathing down your neck are that when you go and work from Bahamas are they going to be checking in you know like there's a lot of things to consider. Yeah okay well for now self-funded amazing yeah for now you want how you want it which has obviously been working so yeah it's working so now yeah. What are some things that have really helped the brand blow up has there been any certain moments or collaborations I know you've collaborated with some big names yeah in the influencer world but also some brands like odd news and things as well has there been any partnership or marketing that has really made a difference. I think it all makes such a difference every single thing just compounds and people will tell me like oh I saw your earrings because I saw them on Sydney Sweeney or I saw them on this random person I've never heard of or I saw your collab with odd news I saw you guys in self-ridges I actually discovered you guys on revolve like it's all these tiny things but I think our collaborations with other brands really help and our being in wholesale really helps as well and I think and then the press and the celebrity and the influencer it all compounds into this really nice ecosystem and gives this halo effect to the brand where not one thing drives a million dollars overnight like literally not one thing and I think people think like this is my silver bullet this is my golden ticket this is going to change my business yeah I mean I'd love it if it did for you but it it didn't for me and it likely won't but everything altogether firing works so well because you'll see it in an article you'll see it on a slab you'll see it on a couple of influencers then you're going to a store you'll see it you'll be online shopping and you'll be like I feel like this brand is everywhere or like I feel like this brand is legit rather than just this tiny little brand this girl started had making the necklaces yeah because it's like anyone can go viral these days and it's having that presence offline in the stores across other brands that people have trust with and they obviously get great collaboration with you as well with the reputation you've built what have been some of the biggest collaborators you've had or biggest celebrities that you've had and how did you go about getting them on board we have had so many great celebrities where the brand um I think honestly a lot of them have just bought it which is so nice um and then otherwise we get it through their stylist the stylist will organize it and sometimes we will get like a request for something and then the stylist will say let me know where to return and I'm like I'll just hold on to them for your care you might need them which is a nice way to build a relationship and then they'll end up putting it on a celebrity six months later so although these things have happened really organically we've never really paid anyone ever like we've paid a couple of influences through some like affiliate networks like shot my but apart from that we don't really pay anyone so it's been really nice to see people organically just like pick up the product and some of like the biggest collaborators I mean well we're actually doing two brand collaborations this year which I don't think I can speak about yet but I think they're going to be our two biggest ones like they're like big brands way bigger than us so we're really excited about that can you give us a hint one is in clothing one is one is a clothing brand and then one is a beauty brand yeah okay I'm excited yeah when are they coming out uh q4 so let's come on and q4 everyone keep an eye out yeah okay I'm excited for that I want to go back to your personal brand for a moment so obviously you'd built a personal brand before heaven may ham you were doing modeling and everything as well what right now is your income streams through your personal brand so my personal brand I guess is a loose term for what it was before heaven I was doing a little bit of modeling a little bit of TikTok a little bit of Instagram and I wasn't making that much money I mean that's super relative like you can't really say something's a lot or a little amount yeah but I really wasn't making anywhere close to a full-time salary um and then now I would say my personal brand is centered around running heaven mayhem so like every thing I post needs to run through the lens of is this aligned with the brand and is this aligned with my future goals of investing and starting other brands and being like a voice in this industry yeah so that's how I think about it and then as my income stream I get paid posts here and there and that's it it's nothing crazy I probably get like maybe two or three paid posts a quarter yeah which is like for which is like 12 a year maybe maybe like maybe 10 or eight so it's really nothing crazy I work with brands that I'm obsessed with or brands that are like really aligned I always used to say I only want to work with a brand that is has a shop is a luxury or is a household name so by a shop I mean someone like Sandra or someone like totem or something that is like has presence in cities by a household name I'm happy to work with like a dyson or a cold gate or something like that but like a really legit brand and then luxury is obviously like we all know luxury yeah so that's kind of how I run my partnerships as well making sure I like actually use and like the brand but then I just try and be really nimble with my expenses and yeah yeah okay so with your personal brand with those decision criteria what makes you say okay yes a cold gate is super aligned to where I'm going okay well I've never worked with cold gate but that's just like an example yeah that because that would be a product I use every day and I think you kind of have to like way up this story like is this super aligned with where I'm going probably not but it is a product I use every day yeah I do need to like make some kind of money and like it's very relatable so I think I kind of run it through that lens yeah so you have shared in the past that you didn't pay yourself away yeah having my hem has that changed now no I see what I'm paying myself I a lot of what I do is work like I drove here today with Valentina so I can edit in the car if I was to get an uber or if I was to go on a vacation for the weekend I would be going there to enjoy myself a little but take content so like a lot of these things is actually really work focused so I try and like I'm working all the time so a lot of these things are business expenses okay and then apart from that then I'll use my money my social media to pay for other things yeah that I want to pay for and that's how I'm doing it at the moment yeah and is that decision so that you can just continually invest in growing heaven mayhem yeah and I think like when I look at the numbers and the P&L I'm like okay this money could go in my pocket for what like what am I going to spend it on right now or I could hire someone really talented to do this which is going to grow us further or something but I could pay myself now and I probably should but I'm also like it's I'll do that when I really need to but it's like all good for now yeah so how do you cover all your living expenses I have a husband who pays half of things and then like I said like I'm going to London I'm gonna go two days on a holiday but I'm going 10 days for work that's a work expense that's on the work card like stuff like that my food my fridge is what I pay for from my like social media for example my dog that would be like a personal expense my clothes a lot of the time it just depends but like maybe I can put that through PMS brand or heaven mayhem like I'm using this for a shoot that kind of stuff I also get a lot of things gift did. So I think like you know we're just like a little bit here, a little bit there kind of spreads it out. No that's awesome. What would you say to maybe a founder who's on the early days and potentially getting stressed they're not paying themselves because particularly in product-based businesses I mean even for me in the first three plus years I didn't pay myself anything and very similar to you every holiday was on the business. What would you say to maybe someone who's in that early days and feeling like oh I'm not able to pay myself yet, reinvesting everything and maybe stuck in that mindset of when is this going to pay off? Yeah well I think it's already potentially paying off if your depends what your goal is. Is your goal to have a business for like the next 50 years and pay yourself a great salary and work every day? Is your goal to sell? Is your what is the goal? Yeah but I think a lot of people are happy to not pay themselves because they know I'm going to sell it for loads of money eventually or whatever. Yeah I think you just got to weigh up what the goal is of the business and then like if you need it to pay you a salary just start really small. Yeah and yeah then cover your living expenses but yeah I also of course I'm driven by money and I like love to reach financial goals I love it but I would do it with no money either because I really enjoy doing it. Yeah I always say business you really have to find the thing like I would pay someone to be able to do what I do every day. Yeah I would ask my employees should be paying me to come to work it's that fun. Yeah like I should be paying them. Yeah well I do obviously but I mean I should be pay I should be paying to go to the office every day I have that much fun. Yeah but yeah that's what that's why I like investing because it's like a hobby. So fun. Okay what's coming up for you so you're shared a little bit about heaven mayhem. Is there anything coming up for you that you're really excited about? Obviously other than having a baby. Yes I'm having a baby in a couple of months. What is coming up for me? Honestly I'm really I'm excited I'm all a bit nervous to see how my baby is going to fit into my life because there's so many things coming up for heaven and we're locking in things that I'm like oh just having the contract like that I don't have to be there in case like I cannot travel like I'm it's gonna be a really weird transition because I say yes to everything I'm can be on a plane a million times a week like I can just do it all but I'm like maybe I won't be able to so I think that is I'm just like intrigued to see how it rolls out I wouldn't say I'm excited or that nervous about it I'm just like let's see but I'm really excited for everything going on at heaven I'm also working on some other businesses in the side and just like getting this ecosystem going I have so many ideas all the time and you definitely can't execute on everything otherwise you'd be spread truth in but I think there's just so many fun things I want to do yeah okay so when you say other businesses are you starting some more yourself yeah yeah but like tight lips okay we're gonna have to come back and find out more about those okay I want to know then about your time management because love the maximizing of editing in the car and utilizing all that time how do you see that's going to change and obviously it's gonna be a journey to figure it out how do you see that change how you're gonna take maternity leave are you going to still be working I don't know but I'm not that worried about it and I'm not like going into this being like I have no idea I'm hiring some help I plan to work from home I plan to have everything set up from now until mid-2020-27 obviously I'll be there yeah so I'm just getting ahead of a lot of things so that I everyone can feel set up and no feels like they're waiting for me because that's my worst fear even like on a day-to-day basis I'm like who needs something now so that they can do the next thing quickly ask me and then I can quickly tell you so that you can keep going I don't want to hold anyone up but apart from that I'm just gonna wait and see I think I said to the girls like I'll probably be offline for 72 hours but that's because I assume like I'm gonna check my phone and text my friends back and check social media and check Slack because I just do that yeah I'm not gonna be on calls I'm not gonna be on my emails full-time 72 hours post-birth but my team's amazing and like nothing breaks when I'm not there like it's fine I love to be there and I think I really drive it forward but like nothing goes wrong without me so I'm really not worried yeah how do you manage your time now then if you're traveling a lot you've got a lot of different businesses you're angel investing you're building out more businesses how do you manage and even just manage all the things you have to be across I do have really good people who if I get on a call with them they can give me high level and I can be like this isn't this and then I'm like you got to handle it I don't do so many day today tiny things I do it sometimes and then right now to prep for this maternity leave I am handing off way more than I've ever done and I'm like hey guys I'm in the business of delegating right now so this is exactly what I would be doing you you do it yeah so I'm trialing that out but I just like take it day by day I don't have a strategy I use things like Monday.com for a tutorial list I use my notes app I use I do a little bit of time blocking I am obsessed with Slack we use Slack at the office and it makes it so easy so I do all those things I love to work from a coffee shop or like an airport lounge like if I've got three hours if my flight delayed oh best thing in the world yeah like I can be so productive I love to like have a match and just be powering through like does not matter what is going on around me there can be screaming children there can be so much noise I can just power through so I love kind of putting myself in those environments because I'm like I get so much done and then I also try and lean into AI a lot to get a bit of stuff done we're playing with Claude at the moment so like just like efficiencies or reporting or like you know just trying to do things quicker what's one of your favorite ways to use it at the moment your your team have figured out at the moment so I will go for a morning walk and I will read I have like a deck of every launch and I will be like okay for this launch I want to do this this is the influencer strategy this is who I want to give this is the campaign vision this is what I want to do on e-commerce this is for ads this is for operations I wanted at the warehouse two weeks early because I want to do this is this is this all on a voice note and then I will say summarize it anything operations needs to go to this like channel anything e-commerce go here and then my Claude will say like are you ready to send and I go yes yes yes yes yes so within like one second everyone on the team has my compiled notes that I've been talking at the screen for an hour and they're like how the bug does your brain work because I just got 30 slacks but I'm like it's fine it's because I was talking for an hour and I just like summarized it so that's really helpful for my personal time management and then we do like a lot of shared projects so we'll like drop data in for influencer or for wholesale and then I can be like how many earrings do we sell on revolve last week I don't need to ask someone she doesn't need to pull up a sheet it's like this constant thing that we're feeding it so like it doesn't it saves a lot of time so we're just trying to do things like that constantly and does it connect to your shopify or how does it pull the data can extra Shopify and then we drop in spreadsheets but we drop in them in in like a live format so we're not having to upload it every time like we're not dropping in a spreadsheet and then being like how many did I sell we're dropping in the spreadsheets every day every week so that at any given time you can say how many did I sell and it will pull and then I say compare it to the week before compare it to our online sales compare it to whatever and then yeah has there been any ways that you've been using it personally as well other than helping you manage the game I yes I loads of people sent me like baby lists or I found like loads of things I wanted online like cutie things and then I put it all in to Claude I said put this on a spreadsheet find me the ratings of everything make sure everything safe make sure everything's like natural or whatever I wanted like I think you know for example some baby curbs are like not that good I don't know yeah some things have like a lower safety rating okay so I'm like rank it by safety rating give me the lead times of how quickly I can get it because I don't want to my house to fill up with all this stuff now yeah or like you know three months ago when I was doing this I'm like okay what's the longest lead time that kind of stuff and then it so like yeah it makes stuff like that how good yeah okay I want to know also with your personal brand with the business you're obviously very visible and you share a lot of your life you shared your pregnancy announcement but are there any parts of you that obviously there would be many but are there many parts of you that the world haven't seen as much I don't think like I share the day to day in like a day leave log and I'll show like I go to the gym I get a paley I go to the gym I get ready I go to the office I go home like they don't really see potentially like how much work I do and like what I actually do with my brain every day not for any reason other than like it's kind of really difficult to film because I'm in the middle of stuff I don't share that much of my personal life like I don't really share that much of my husband that much of my friends of course it kind of had to say I was pregnant otherwise people be like what the fuck is that but apart from that I'm not like I'm not talking about my pregnancy every day yeah which is I love consuming that content so like I could do that but I'm kind of focused on my brand instead with my content but yeah I honestly keep it like quite brown focused with like a few little personal tidbits I like really I'm interested in health and wellness and so I'll post before I was pregnant, like reading this book in the sauna, but I'm not doing like a whole routine. Yeah. Just little tidbits. Is there anything that you would love the world to know more about you? Honestly, not really, because I really like my current vibe. Like people know enough, they don't need to be in the day to day today. I think I'm in this really good position where people know enough about my personality. So I can't have this huge fall from grace. I'm not an angel, even listening to this podcast, you can tell I'm like, no, no, fuck this. I do this, this, this, this. I'm very real. And I think that's the perfect balance. People aren't like, oh my god, she seems amazing and perfect. And then if they meet me in real life, they're not like, oh, you're so different. So I think that's the perfect balance. But I think I want my brands to speak for themselves. And I'm good with everything else. I don't really need people to know anymore. I don't need to scream anything from the rooftops. I think when I was first getting on calls with like agencies or people, I could tell that people had this misrepresentation of me almost like they kind of were like, are you sure you build that yourself? Are you sure you started with $900? Are you sure you run your own ads? Why was that? I think because it was like a quite a like quick and crazy success story. So they're like, surely not. Like surely you didn't do that or like your husband must be really involved. And I just let them. I just, it's all good. I know who I am. I am really proud of myself. I think I'm really smart. And if they don't, it's fine. Yeah. So I'm kind of like at peace. And I've also really developed this skill of like, I'm not a people pleaser. I'm like very sure of myself. And I'm really happy in my life and my relationships. So I really don't mind if other people are speculating about things. Yeah, it's all good. Have there been any big mindset shifts or even just like identity shifts internally that you've had to go through since being more in the public eye since building your brand? Not really. Yeah. I can't really think of anything. I think, no, honestly, no. I think like I have noticed that I definitely do not know everything. And I love learning from other people. But at the same time, sometimes these people that you're learning from and you think of the smartest people in the room actually don't get it either. So I think like learn like figuring that out and being like, wait, yeah, I'm not the smartest in the room. And I definitely don't need to be. But like maybe you want either. So like kind of having some intuition is really good. And then I think just remembering like everyone's a real person, you know, I think that you can be in these rooms where you feel really inferior because you have built a really small brand and they've built really big brands. But they're probably looking at you like, oh, but how did you do it by yourself or but how did you do it alongside this? So I think like everyone is just a normal person, whether they're like a huge business owner or celebrity or anything. And I think just like remembering that is really important. Yeah. For sure. I think a lot of people can pedestal people. Yeah. Look at them in different ways. But they are just humans at the end. Yeah. And we all just need love and we all just need kindness. Yeah. And I think I try, when I see someone who I think is really amazing or inspiring or like they're super confident or I'm just like, oh my god, I love their like aura. And they just like light up a room. I don't feel inferior. I don't think like, oh my god, damn, she's all of this and I'm not. I'm like, oh my god, damn, she's all of this. Like, I'd love to be more like that. And I'm going to watch and learn that like I'd like to take inspiration rather than like put myself down. Yeah. Are there any areas that you're wanting to really grow in yourself at the moment or that you've been inspired by? I would love to spend some more time developing the creative and the design. And I'm like really inspired to push the boundaries there. Yeah. I mean, it's a lifelong journey. It's like a lifelong journey that changes day by day. I'm like, I should do more of this. I should cook more. Oh, I should try this. I should do more public speaking. I should do more panels. Like, you know, I kind of like push myself out of my comfort zone a little. Is there one goal that you have? Is it the speaking? Is there one big goal that you really want to push yourself into? I'd like to launch these other businesses by the end of the year. That's my big goal right now. How many are there? That's true. Okay. Yeah. I'm so excited. I'm like, I need to know. Yeah. So exciting. Okay. We love to finish with an unapologetic brag because I don't think as women, we celebrate ourselves a month and when people ask us, you know, how's business going, we often say, oh, it's good. Yeah, yeah, it's fine. That's a very Australian thing. Very Australian. Go to get over that in America when you go to New York. You have to like, kind of talk about yourself. I still don't do it enough, but like, I've really noticed. Oh, let me tell you a little story. So I'm sitting across from this girl at a dinner and she asked me, oh, what do you do? And I said, I have a jewelry brand. And she's like, oh, cool. Keep eating her food. Whatever. She doesn't care. Then maybe like 10 minutes later, someone mentions, have a mayhem. She's like, oh, wait, have a mayhem's your brand. And I'm like, yeah, and she's like, oh, my God, I know it. But if I had said to her at the big, like, by acting small and by pretending I'm humble and by, you know, doing this, she's not excited about it either. Why would she be? Because I'm like, oh, I have a jewelry brand. Like, yeah, whatever. Why would she be excited? If I had said to her, oh, my gosh, I have a jewelry brand. We make accessories for everyone. You would look so good in our earrings. We hear here's the product. She would be like, oh, my God. Either she would say, I've seen it or she'd be like, oh, my God, I love that. That's so fun. How'd you start? It would be exciting for her. So I think not that I'm trying to be braggie, but I think making other people excited about your brand is the best thing you can do. And when you try and make yourself small and to appear, quote, unquote, humble, it actually doesn't even resonate. It just seems like you're not excited about what you do. And then I find, even for me, on my journey, I used to get really almost offended when people weren't excited about it. But it's like, it started with me. Yeah, like if you're not building-- It's like, if you're not bigging someone up, you'd be like, oh, my God, you should listen to my podcast. You would love it. I have all these founders on. I do this, this, and this. But in a nice, inclusive way, not like, I'm incredible. You haven't heard about it. You know, it's just a nice, inclusive way to act. Because everyone wants to be around people who are excited by what they do and what they're working on. I'm on the mission to have more women brag about their success. Oh, OK, yes. OK, OK, OK. Because especially in Australia, it is the challenge. But I want to hear your brag. But today, what I'm going to say-- My brag is I am most proud of myself for building my business. And I go into my office every day and I'm like, look at this. Look at this imagery. Look at this product. Look at these people that I get to work with every day that I started from scratch myself and I haven't had any help. I've had help, but not nothing integral enough that I could say. It's because of them. So I'm so proud of myself for that. And I'm really proud of myself that I make other people feel good. I hope I made you feel good. But yesterday, for example, I met this girl who has a brand and I was just interested in knowing about it and I told her I'd totally be interested in investing. And then she sent me a voice note saying, oh my god, your energy's amazing. You made me feel so inspired. And that's what I'm proud of. I love when people tell me, you've inspired me to do this. I love building other people up and I'm really proud that I often get that feedback. And I'm like, yeah, what I want to do is working. So I'm proud of that too. I'm obsessed. That's the most beautiful ads are. But I want to quickly touch on that. You said in the US, you have to brag. Yeah. What is the biggest difference that you have noticed? And why do you think it exists? I don't know why it exists. I think that everyone goes on about tall poppy syndrome in Australia. I think maybe in the US, it's just like the American dream and maybe in LA, specifically, like people come to make their dreams happen. And there's so much, there's so many people. It's so big. The country's so big. So there is just so much opportunity. It's also a lot more competitive, right? It's like if you're not standing out, you're going to just blend in and miss out on TV. Yeah, maybe. And maybe. But I feel like people have this mindset that like there is enough to go around. There is enough opportunities. Like let's all be better together. Yeah. I've even noticed just going down to everyone or the shops. Yeah. Everyone in America is like, oh my gosh, I love your dress. Yeah. In Australia, you don't really get comments. I know. Like Australia is a very friendly and amazing people, but they're not as vocal with compliments or sharing about themselves or any of that. Yeah. I think I lived in London. And when I lived there, I'd be like, morning on the street. And people would look at me like, I'm sorry, what? We don't know each other. Why would you say the one? Oh my gosh. And then when I moved here, everyone's so nice. And I had a conversation with someone else. I think they were Australian or British. And they were like, I feel like it's kind of like also a little bit part of the tipping culture. Like they have to be nice. But would you rather someone be fake nice? Or would you rather someone be rude? Like I'd take fake nice every day of them being like, but you will notice if you're getting a coffee. And then you'll be like, you've paid and then they turn the thing around to tip and they'll be like, I love your hair color. Oh, you smell amazing, by the way. And then you're like, ah, 25%. But you. So I feel like some of it's part of that. But it is just like a really nice vibe here. It is. It is. It's amazing. Well, thank you so much for sharing all of your incredible wisdom. Honestly, I cannot wait to see what's next. You're not just birthing a baby, but so many new brands and products and angel investing in trying to do it all. It is just all happening all at once. Thanks for watching. to see what's next. - Thank you so much and thanks for having me on. I'm so glad we got to do this. - Thank you so much.