How to Become a Rich Person with Haley Sacks (aka Mrs. Dow Jones)

The thing about finances is that it's actually not that complicated, and it's not so creative the path that we all have to take to get rich. It's actually really straightforward. This podcast is a dear media production. Hi guys! Hi guys! Welcome back to another episode of Girl's Gotta Eat! Welcome back! It is Netflix's joke festival. This week starts today as this episode airs. It's so excited. We've even done a show together. And so long? We really have it. I just don't really feel like that though, because like I opened your tour. I've opened the first half of the tour. She might be coming back, you guys too. Oh yeah! She might be. We'll talk about it. Yeah. So we have our show this Thursday night, May 7th at the Palace Theatre here in LA for the festival. We are doing this show with the Chippendales. We are so excited. We have fun special guests and so much fun stuff planned. I mean, I just can't even believe this. You are not on all these Chippendales calls. That's my department. I'm just Trevor calls. Trevor calls. Which is weird. It seems like more my department. Well, you're more in-person with the strippers. I'm behind the scenes. They don't touch you. Yeah. So that will be this Thursday. You guys can grab tickets. You can just go to Girl's Gotta Eat.com. That's easiest way. You can also go to Netflix. It's a jokefest. It's a jokefest, but Girls Gotta Eat.com, click on live shows, it gets tickets and we can't wait to see you there. This is really the main show of the year. So we don't really know what else we're doing. I mean, obviously Reina has been on her tour. I toured last year and so we haven't done these types of shows in a while and this will be the one. Come solo if you want. You'll make friends. Bring your friends. Bring your partner. Bring your parents. Like, whoever. Travel for this. Travel from San Diego. San Francisco. Yeah. If you notice, if you guys are listening to just like, come down to LA for the night and stay in hotel. Great hotel. Downtown. Great restaurants. Yeah, they'll just make a night of it. And then if you guys, why you are here? If you live here, you're spending time here, you might see our faces on the side of a bus in Santa Monica. Yes, we talked about this last week on the snack that we are on the Big Blue Bus. So hop on the bus. Cheap. Great way to get around. I love the Big Blue Bus. I mean, I shared my story last week. So if you guys see that bus, we already told you, but please take, I'm just laughing thinking about people at the bus stop. Like, no, I got to get a picture of people like, get out of my way or get on the fucking bus or not. I just, it really took my breath away like what it really looks like. Yeah. It's a bus. It's a huge fucking bus. We did the biggest bus you could get. So we'll see you guys this Thursday and see you at the bus stop. All right. We'll think our partners and we'll jump right into it. This episode of sponsored by BetterHelp, there if you can help, get 10% off at BetterHelp.com/GGE. An article, get a beautiful new couch or bed at article.com. And thank you to NutriFull. Get $10 off your first order in free shipping at NutriFull.com with code GGE10. And thank you to Storyworth. Get up to $20 off at Storyworth.com/GGE. And AG1, get an AG1 flavor sampler plus a bottle of vitamin D3 plus K2 free with your first AG1 subscription at drinkag1.com/gge and we have such a great one today. We have Mrs. Dow Jones with us. You guys are requested her for so long. Yes. We are so excited. We recorded her in New York. But I just wanted to say that my special came out last week on the 30th. I premiered it on YouTube and then it debuted on Prime Video in the US on Friday and it is available everywhere to watch on YouTube and then US if you have Prime subscription. So you can watch it from anywhere. There's a few countries that are blocked from YouTube. So if you're in North Korea, but people ask like I'm in Canada, I'm in Australia and yes, you can watch it wherever. Just fire it up. YouTube, my YouTube is Ashley. How's the time? You guys can find it. Link in my bio. I have a link tree now. Just do my link tree. We'll talk to you the last night. That's of course it is. You said you were building out your link tree and I was like, how does it look first of mine? It looks really nice. I paid for premium. It looks nice. It's a different font as opposed to like a little avatar, a full screen photo. So just thank you guys for all the support. I, unfortunately, I'll tell you I'm recording this before it actually airs because obviously it was days ago. But I really am assuming it was received well and I got nice messages and tags from you guys and again, I just can't speak on the full scope of it. But I am sure that I'm feeling so much gratitude and love and support and just overwhelmed with you guys as always. So thank you. And of course, just if you haven't watched it, here comes the bride. I always forget the name of it. It's called here comes the bride. You can watch it on YouTube or Prime Video. I keep thinking like how excited I am to talk to you like Friday morning. Like I just I like to hear that like everybody, message you, call you like sent DMs. I'm just, I'm excited to hear the feedback. Yeah. So thank you guys. Thank you to Raina and just everything and check it out and again, it should be easy to find. But if you have any problems, just message me. And if you can't get enough of Ashley, I am really excited to announce a very special guest for my Grand Mercy Theatre show in New York City on May 14th. It is Ashley Hustle-Tine and fresh off her special. Here comes the bride opening for Raina, who started comedy six months ago. You would never know. But the show is really, I have two shows next week. I have Boston on the 13th, which is one of our favorite places to perform in the world honestly. And so I have two shows there. I have tickets available for the second show. And Grand Mercy Theatre May 14th, I mean, that's the first theatre show you and I ever did together in 2018 for the holiday show and our first holiday show too, right? Yeah. And sort of like go back there on my own. It's just like, it means so much to me eight years later to like stand there by myself on that stage. I didn't think you'd be able to come and so I didn't tell anybody, obviously because you weren't necessarily planning on being in New York. But like, I don't know, be there with you and just like close this out, I do have a couple shows after that. But like, this was like the dream to have you there with me. So I appreciate you making it work because it's really exciting to me and all our friends were coming. I can't wait. And it's just going to mean the world to me. And I just, I said you the other day, like, I just, I didn't know if people would like show up for me the way they showed up for you. And it's not like we know how to out, but yes. We have the best friends and family and I'm grateful for everybody and I'm grateful for our audience. But a part of me was like, people saw Ashley and they might just be like, I did the thing, you know. And I'm very touched that everybody came when it's people who were more in my life. Like my sister-in-law, both of my sister-in-laws have been on your tour. And like my, all my best friends and who are, a lot of them are your friends. But just that was, I feel like the sentiment you shared of like, not that our audience wouldn't show up, of course, but just these people in my life that are like, I'm going to go to Reyna show without Ashley. Yeah. And the same, you know, with your family and friends, if I was somewhere your dad would come. I love to. Your cousins, you know. I love to. So it just, it means a lot. I'm really excited and this is where I'm end, I'm, I'm nearing the end of the tour, maybe you guys will say. But it's just been really exciting. So ReynaRieber.com, you grab those tickets. We'll have a great time. I truly just can't wait. Yeah. So we will be in New York on next week doing some, some fun stuff and we will see you guys there. I was just telling you this food thing. So we can just get into it. I went to dinner, sorry, we just had a date night at this hot new restaurant in Venice. It's Indian. We had great food. We had a great time. But I had a specific experience. I feel like it happens sometimes in LA where the hostess is just catatonic. Perfectly nice, but not there. It's not like New York where they are there and they're, well, if they're like that, they're doing it on purpose. They're trying to be routine. Right. And LA people do want to be nice to you, which is why it's such a pleasure. So if they're like that, there's just nothing going on upstairs. I just find people in LA that work in restaurants to be so friendly, so accommodating, so nice. I have a theory that I just think they never know who they're dealing with. So they might be an actor and you could be a casting agent. Like you just never know. Also there are nice people in general, like genuinely, but we just have great experiences. But everyone's well, there's just like always like a really pretty blonde hostess, probably like in her 20s, that is just like, what are you doing here? Why would you come to this stand for your reservation? So we catch this restaurant and we got there a little early. And so we're like, we're here early and we'll do whatever and she just threw her night off. Like she was not present to begin with and were there 10 minutes early. She was like, no one explained the scenario before her. She's like, okay, she checks her iPad and she's like, do you want to eat in the cave? Were you like I was having a stroke? I said, that's not what she said. I was like, probably not. You know me, I like to be in the vibe. What's up with that cave? Well, so she goes, it's really pretty. I was like, it's like a private room. She was like, mm hmm. I said no context. I said, I think we're going to pass on the cave for now. Can we just eat like in the regular dining room? Because the vibes were high. They were playing biggie. It was great. So she was advocating. She was like, yeah. In the next 15 minutes. I was like, great. That's what time our reservation is anyway. It's fine. I was like, can we go to the bar? No. It's just not no alternative. No. No. She, I swear to God, I think she said we don't have a bar. Is that possible? They had a bar. I saw it with my own eyes. But I think they seat the bar for reservations. But there was a bar for sure, but maybe they want to keep the bar very clear. So she was like, but you can have a drink out here. on the sidewalk basically. And I was like, okay, can we get order drinks? She was like, I'll send my manager over. (laughing) - You threw the whole system into this, right? - Literally, I was just asking, okay, we're here early. Well, wait, can we get to tell me who's the manager? - The manager comes over the first time and it's ever happened. - You're the biggest Karen on earth. She's like, someone helped me take care of this person. She wants a drink. - The manager comes over. So happy to help. We're not doing anything crazy. We just, I got a class watch, your shot got a beer, we sit, we wait, and I go, I'm gonna go check out that cave. So I go and I walk back. It's in the back of the restaurant and it is beautiful, but there's one couple dining in there. It was not a vibe, and I was like, I would have a birthday in here. It was just like an overflow room, probably private dining. - I feel like a cave. - Yes, it was dark and it was pretty. She was right. - It's a rock. - It just felt like dark and moody. - You think that they call it the cave internally and that's supposed to be front facing. - Right, they're like, that's in the handbook. So I was like, the cave is nice. I would come back here for like a birthday party, whatever. So as I'm walking back through, I see the bar. Oh, there's a bar. I could have gone up to the bar or to drink. The bar was not that packed. I'm like, okay, there is a bar. She doesn't know where she is. And as I'm walking through the dining room, like there's plenty of two tops available or obviously about to get sat. And so I come back and as I pass the host to stand, she's like, her table is ready. Like, yeah, obviously I can see it. So the manager has just delivered my wine. She hasn't delivered Shoshank's beer yet 'cause we didn't have to wait that long. And then we go in and we sit at the table which I knew the one we would sit at. And we had a lovely experience. But I was like, this is just this very specific LA hostess and perfectly nice and got it done. But did not know where she was. I feel like, and what is it? Is it, what are you on? Just like a beta blocker. A beta blocker with a little bit of weed, maybe you would be on. - Yeah, the stront mix of beta blockers. It's a low dose edible mix of beta blockers. Like I'm so envious sometimes of these people, like this ignorance is bliss. Like I just, I feel like I got so much stuff going on at all times to think about like, what did me so nice to think about nothing? - I know. But that restaurant scenario, it's a smaller restaurant, the stakes are low. Like hostesses have to run these restaurants like the Navy sometimes. Like I worked at a chain restaurant, I worked at Lone Star, I was not qualified for that job to have a giant restaurant with an hour weight in the middle of Dover, Delaware on a Friday night, totally unqualified. And then a lot of restaurants in New York City and you have people breathing on your neck and people are getting in your face. I mean, there's a restaurant I can think of in La Jolla for brunch where it's just like the sidewalk is packed with people like you gotta have it locked and tight. And I just feel like a smaller restaurant in Venice, do whatever. So when I worked for Danny Meyer, who he is the founder of Shake Shack, but in New York City he owns like Unesquare Cafe and Grimsey Tavern and my Alino and so many restaurants. And my first management job was for Unesquare Cafe and I was the host reservations managers and charge all the hostesses and the reservationists. And there was a book like 12 inches thick and it was like if this, then that. And it was every scenario you could have ever imagined in your life, it was so stupid and granular. Like it was like, if somebody doesn't like their table, if somebody flags you down and asks to order something, if somebody flags you down and says I didn't, I want this drink not that drink, like a waiter's job, not a hostess's job. There was like a hundred scenarios in this book that I had to train people on when they came through the door. Like if you asked, we can only see eight people per table, we didn't have tables for 10. So if somebody called and said I'd like reservation for 10, you couldn't just say like we don't do that, you had to say like, well we don't put Grimsey Tavern doesn't yours, the number for Grimsey Tavern. Like it was so specific but like that is where you rise to greatness. Exactly, a hundred percent. I mean, there's two types of restaurants. Well, there's so many different types. But I'm saying like, I'm sorry, those are the far ends of this spectrum. But yes, Danny Meyer, I mean, you're talking like a publicly traded company. They have all the time in the world. I mean, that's why he's the goat. He wrote the best books about hospitality. But that, I just like, this is crazy. But it's the most popular restaurants. I feel like we learned early on in Sex and the City, how much power some of these hosts have. They hold all the power. At a hot spot. All the power of those hosts. And the thing about this girl, she was to the nines. Like pencils, yeah, she looked, put together, just nothing going on in the industry. I will say, I'll take somebody a little spacey than what I've dealt with in New York so much, which is just people that like won't look up from their phone, won't look up from the recipe. I mean, I love so how some glad there were members. It helps me to travel and say those hotels. But the way people treat you when you check in there in New York, like the flush is going to melt off their face. They've been kind of nicer. Have they? My biggest pet bee is walking up to a host stand, a counter at a coffee shop, a retail store, anything and someone doesn't fucking look up. Even to say, I'll be right with you. I went to a store in Philly, like a merch type store. Two guys were working in that store. I was in there five minutes. No one said a word. Like, not welcome. Let me know if you need anything. Like, I understand sometimes you're busier in the weeds, but you work in the service industry. Like someone a pro customer comes in. They should be acknowledged. I think it's crazy. I just said about sweet green. There was the early days of sweet green. I've never felt so abused by those people. They were the rooted people. And like, I still fuck with sweet green, but I had some experience. Or I was like, they look through you. They look like you're not there. The top is Zara. Zara, yeah. Zara is the top. You're like, I'm pretty sure during the interview process, they're like, how rude do you think you can be? Let's role play it. Well, Abercrombie in the 90s is the top. Because they were-- Were they rude? Were they told to be ashamed? I had a friend that worked there, and they were not told to be nice and friendly. Like, they were like, make customers work for your attention. Don't help anybody. Everybody wants us. Body shame, Abercrombie. Because the people who worked at Abercrombie were like an elite of themselves. So they were like, act like it. What's Zara's excuse? Zara's just like, if somebody wants these cheap fines, they won't be treated as like dog shit. Yeah. And listen, I mean, you know, if you're working retail, you're dealing with shitty people. You work as a customer service. I get it. But like, we have had some experiences in New York that it is just like, oh, I'm being-- It's a beauty. You're mad at me. Well, we have a great episode for you guys today about money. And we're just going to thank our partners, and we'll get into it with Mrs. Dow Jones. Yes. 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Mother's Day is Sunday, May 10th, order right now and save up to $20 at storyworth.com/GGE. Save up to $20 at storyworth.com/GGE. Storyworth.com/GGE. And let's get into it. - All right guys, we are very excited to welcome our guests today. She is a leading voice making financial literacy, actually accessible and attainable. She has been named to Fortune's 40 under 41 Adweeks creator of the year for personal finance and she is recognized as Money at Magazine's Change Maker. And one of TikTok's most inspiring women in business, she hosts the podcast Financial T and she is the author of the upcoming book, Future Rich Person. Please onto this show. Haley Sacks, better known as Mrs. Dow Jones. - My gosh, thank you so much for having me. - Thank you for being here and you were highly requested by our audience for a long time. - Yeah, so it's perfect timing. - Well, you were highly requested by me just like to be on the show because I am obsessed with the show and I told you, I'm so strong, I know. If I sound crazy the first three minutes, it's just because I'm settling into the fact that I'm here. - This feels really good, Haley. Thank you. Because sometimes we have guests come up in here. - They don't realize how fit we are. And I appreciate it. - I don't think we're famous, but we've had guests come up in here like, "Who are you again?" And you came in, we're like, "We love you." And you're like, "We love you." It's such a nice way to start an interview. - Well, I love your content, but I also love your business acumen. Like I was saying, it's amazing to see what you've built in like a 360 degree way. Like the sex toy line, "Hello genius, Kim Kardashian, who?" I'd love to see girls with multiple revenue streams. This is the new American dream. - Multi-haven. - Well, thank you. - And we've done episodes, I mean, pretty much yearly with different people and finance. Our audience just, they love it and they love you and they really wanted you on the show and you've this book coming out and it's fantastic and it's a new way to look at money and how the system is stacked against you and all these things. So we're gonna talk about all of it with you. - I have a question for you first. - Yes. - Soot Mrs. Dow Jones. - Yes. - How do you feel about Pambondi trying to steal your name a few months back? I really feel like she tried to. - Well, I feel a little bit off about like a few different things with her but she really did comfort me with the Dow's at 50k. Like keep my name out of your mouth, Pamb. Are you crying, kidding? Like, well, she's fired. - Yeah, she's gone. - And why do you think she got fired? - Exactly. - And I was like, no, like the season to six. - Karma. - Yes. - I'm also those. - Like I literally thought of your handle when that came out. Like she's really coming for Mrs. Dow Jones Spot. - Yeah, it was a big moment for me. I would say, like for the Dow. - Yeah. - On the Dow. - For all of us who have to do Rupert Murdock and I were sort of like, you know, texting about it. It was a big moment as a brand for us to be mentioned in the Senate hearing. - He's still alive. - That's crazy. - It's up there with like four seasons, totally unscathed me. Like it's a crazy moment of that she brought the Dow into the mix when she did. - Defenseless. - And by, you know, it's like when you really have nothing else to say, that's what you say. It's like if you catch a guy cheating and he's like, but you never said a happy birthday to my mom. And it's like, wait, that's not the point. Like you cheated, you know? - The Dow is at 50. - Yeah, the Dow is at 50, okay. - Okay. - She gone and you prevailed. - You prevailed? - So, hey, I was gone, but Haley's here. (laughing) So, maybe tell us about your background a little bit in like how you came to become a financial expert. - Yeah, so I think like many women, I was not taught about finance or really empowered at all to take care of my own finances or to feel like I had any sort of argument towards anything to have to do with investing, which is so funny because I grew up on the upper east side around money. So I always love talking about money and I understood the power of money, right? Like it really, you know, it changes the way that you see someone, if they have it, if they don't, maybe you wanna be around people who have more access to things, like I understood that, okay, this is something that sort of makes the world tick, but that was also coupled by this great insecurity of like, ooh, how am I gonna do this? Like, I've got a land of man who's gonna like, you know, sail this ship or hopefully my dad will do it for me. And then I was in comedy. I sort of graduated around the time of like, Tina Fey and Amy Poler and Mindy Kaling and you know, all those women, I feel like it really impacted me to be like, okay, like you can have this strong voice in media. That sounds so appealing. I'll start by, you know, working for David Letterman. I was a page and I'm gonna start doing stand up. And so I sort of did that for four years. I was a nanny for a kid named Winthrop on the upper east side. (laughing) Yes, his actual name was Winthrop. (laughing) That is disconcerting. I am a full name. I know you're not trying to dox him right now. No, I'll say it 'cause I feel like there's a third in there. Like, yeah, I'm the third. Yes, and by the way, the school that he went to, guess who else, it's kids go there. Erick Trump or whatever. Is this Dalton? No, Buckley. A similar Dalton, okay. There's such little, they are really, I mean, okay. But I got him because I would never actually make him do it. I would just microwave a hamburger, which is illegal. I mean, that's cool. No, he has to be in the humble. You don't do that for someone else. You really, if you're really putting your back into a job, I don't think you're putting the gray meat in the microwave. But you know what I mean? It was a form of protest. I think Winthrop's parents should have had a chef for him like everybody else there. It sounds like his parents didn't love him. Yeah. Why was that your option? It's so true. It's actually not my fault. It's their fault. Right. That's how I operate. I also-- You know what? Let's flip this narrative. No, like the fact that Winthrop's parents were like, giving the dog food. We don't care. Exactly. But we have to, justice for Winthrop because we had a deal that he could watch wrestling after school. He wasn't able to watch TV. And I could work on my internet content. Because I was always obsessed with the internet, obsessed with digital media, you know. And so we had a nice arrangement. I thought you were going to tell me he stole money out of his parents' wallet for you. No, no. I picture this through-- You're like, I'm going to do my work. And you can watch WWE. Yeah. That's amazing. Yeah. And by the way, it worked out for both of us. Like, we both-- He's soon by our-- Yeah, he's a wrestler. Exactly. And it's all because of me. He's actually coming on-- It's actually Mike Cena's DNA. He's going to be a WrestleMania. We got invited. We can't make it. We actually are. We're supposed to get a WrestleMania. We have a wedding. Or we would literally be in WrestleMania 42 and get-- With Winthrop. Yeah. I've hatched a wrestler. Winthrop, whatever. You never see it coming. You're like, Winthrop's not going to whip my ass. And then he just beats you to the ground. He's just like-- The narrative sort of writes itself. Like, he could wear like a little tie. Like, you know what I mean? Like, you don't really see those kind of costumes in the WWE E, but I feel like there's an opening. Because he did wear like a little suit. Which is so great for it. Children should not have suits. But I digress. So anyways, so everything was W9. And it had nothing-- I wasn't really thinking about my future. I feel like I was in that place in my 20s that a lot of us get lost in a little bit where we-- and it's a bit of magical thinking where you think that everyone else is sort of on your page and we're ignoring our finances, and we're fun, and we're young, and we're wild, and free. And like, this is just like, one day we're going to have a Nancy Myers house. But right now, we don't know how we're getting from A to C. But we can just be sort of stupid about it. And not really pay attention to it. And I think also a lot of that comes from just not feeling confident. You know what I mean? So much of it was just-- I was just empowered. And so I assumed it wasn't for me. And so I ignored it. And I avoided it. And I thought that it was cool to be sort of bad with money. Then I got a job for Lauren Michaels who started SNL, which was a huge deal for me. And especially probably for my family, because they were like, cool. So you're not going to work in a party studio your whole life. Maybe you're going to have a job. That's cool. You're going to get off the train at 30 AM with the rest of corporate America, felt like a big deal. The first day, I had what I would call my aha money moment, where I really wanted to do a great job at that job. And I was also-- I was sort of blindsided by the job where I thought, OK, this is what it's going to take for me to have a full career. They're going to do it for me. So I better give this everything. I'm going to give them everything, because they are the bridge into all of the career success that I want. And the first day, they asked me out for one case at health insurance and all those things that you're supposed to know, people assume you know, but you're never taught. And I was pretty embarrassed that I didn't know any of it. And so then I went home. I was like, cool for sure. I'll get back to you guys. And I just want to say I'm so happy to be here. I'm going to see myself out, but I'll be back tomorrow. And then I went that night and started to YouTube. What is a 401K? Roth IRA versus regular traditional IRA. all of these financial terms that no one had ever explained to me. and I went down this rabbit hole and what I found was either content for men that was really about investing but the guys who were teaching it were just so jargon-heavy and luckily they'd never been through puberty. Like, we're not someone that I would ever want to hang out with, going to date with, like, going, like, it was just lame or it was sort of female-centered content that was so focused on saving. Of course it was. Yeah, and like, making your life suck. Like, I swear. Of course it was. Yeah, there was a one that told me to wash and reuse paper towels. Yeah, I mean, we've talked about, we talked about this, we talked about this, we talked about this, and you talk about this, that men are taught how to invest and grow their wealth, and women are taught how to, like, scrimp and save. Yes. And that you're things that you like are silly and too fancy for the way. The lattes, but they can sports gamble. Like, it's the whole thing. Yes. Yes. Yeah. And so, better on yourself, you'll make it back, and women, it's like, you better have a net nest egg, you know, and keep your money under the mat. Yeah, learn to brew your own water. Learn to brew your own water, exactly. That was it. And so, I was like, this certainly, this can't be the financial wisdom of our time. And so, then, as a way to sort of teach myself, I always say, like, I'm patient zero, which I think sort of is also what's different about me versus financial other financial experts too, is it sort of sometimes feels like when you listen to people talk about, who are good with money, talk about it, it almost feels like they had, like, a certain DNA or something to get that way. Like, oh, you were born that way. Or like, you, you know, you have something that I don't have. You have a different chip than me. But for me, like, no, I really didn't make the transition. Like, I wasn't the kid who was at 10 years old hustling, her lemonade, stand money into the stock market. I didn't know what the stock market. I thought it was a stock market. Like, I literally, I thought my dad sold socks. So, that was a long time. You know, I've never admitted that publicly. And this is a break. That's great. That's an exclusive. That's exclusive. Thank you for picking that up TMZ. So, yeah. So then I started to teach myself. And, you know, I was loved making digital content. So I was like, okay, I'll teach myself online. Thinking, yeah, there's going to be some people who probably feel the same way as I do where they're like, hey, what the hell? We want to learn about this. But there's not like a way that to learn about it that it feels aspirational because I couldn't understand why is it aspirational to spend money and to show off your money? But why does it feel so lousy to be good with your money? Why do we feel sort of embarrassed when we have to tell our friend that we can't afford to do something or that we like are cutting back in a certain place or that we, you know, are focused on this financial goal that makes it so we can't do this other thing. Like, why do we sort of cower at that? It's like the whole thing about direct parties. People are so scared to just say no because maybe they have a different financial goal. But like, there's some sort of social pressure to always be keeping up with your friends in the Jones race. But why can't we have the social pressure be to max out your Roth IRA to feel really good about your budget, to be negotiating your raise, to be investing consistently? Totally. So that was the switch that I wanted to make and I didn't see someone doing that and so I started to do it myself. But aspirational content but also accessible. Like, that's the whole thing. Like, the way it used to be was like, we don't speak this language and I'm not trying to learn. So we love people like you in the space. Like, you can handle this. You're smart enough to handle this. It's also it's like seventh grade math. When you actually get into it, it's not. It's not. It can do it. How are could it be? Like, that's what you realize the moment that you start to actually like take control of your finances and I talk about this a lot in the book. It's like, you don't need to be some sort of expert to have a great financial system that will set you up to be a future rich person. You really just have to get like four things right. Okay, you know, what are the four? Okay, let's talk about it. So first of all, and I say this in the book, you have to have the right account set up. So a lot of us have bank accounts that we got in college. That they gave us a pen and we were like, great, there's a free path. I'm obviously big with them. And then now we're like 35 and we're still with that bank. And we never look at actually what are the fees? What are the what are the monthly charges? Things like that. So the first thing you need to do is make sure that you have the right accounts, make sure that you have a bank account that you like, that you actually like using the app for, that you're not going to like resent logging into every month, like make sure that you have a seamless financial system and that your vibe fits your vibe. Yeah, find a bank that's more you. Yeah, I love the app. I just I don't have that. Yeah, the app is so good. The interface. The interface is the UI. Yeah, the UI is so good. No, for like the colors, like the uh, the colors are so good. And that's important. And then also having a high yield savings account. Okay. So you sort of want to like have those things set up and then the next thing that you want to do is save an emergency fund. So you need like six months of bare bones living expenses and you're going to put that in your high yield savings account. Okay. And then you're going to set up an automated system for your financial life. So that's like the third thing that you really need to get right is making sure that like when you get paid, you have a system where it's going into that bank account that we like. And then it's also going into the high yield savings account. And it's putting money into that every month. And it's all automated. And we're also putting money towards our high interest rate debt. And these things, these goals that we have are just happening seamlessly without us even wondering. So you mentioned automation. And I never really thought about it because all my systems are automated now. But like I don't think about it. Exactly. It happens. And I don't have the clicking that button every month, it used to be really scary and upsetting for me when I was in my 20s, I was paying off two loans, like having to go in, log in, pay these bills. It's just, if the money just came out, I didn't think about it as much. So automating and your bill paid too, right? Yeah, yeah, you're like, you get paid. You got paid and now your goes in these different places. Yeah, you have like a whole system for it. Heartless, you know? Yeah. Heartless. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Heartless, your credit card will be paid off in time. You're, you know, that you're saving like I swear, I would not have, I would not have built any wealth without automation. Because for me, like, I'm pretty type B. So like, I could wake up and tell you that I'm going to drink green juice and run a marathon and like, you know, never text my ex. But by 3 p.m. I'm like eating a cookie and like, I just face timed him and like, I don't know, like, I'm going to go to bed at 2 a.m. Like, it's like, they could take many turns. Totally. And we are at 9 a.m. Different. Exactly. And so what I talk a lot about in the book is this idea of financial energy and that we all have a finite amount of financial energy. We have a finite amount of energy to begin with, but we have a finite amount of financial energy, which is like energy towards our finances. And something that women, I think, get really caught up with, which sort of goes back to the washing of the paper towel thing, is that the media loves to tell us to spend our financial energy on tasks that actually don't move the needle, such as couponing, such as washing paper towels, such as there's a million examples of it, like things that may be buying an onion instead of just buying the pre-chopped onion, and that that's going to really be what creates wealth for you, not buying the pre-chop vegetables, you know, where it's like, okay, maybe it's like a $5 tax every time that you go to the store to do that. And so the idea is to use your financial energy instead on the things that will move the needle that are actually, you're going to see a huge difference from. So like, automation is one of those for sure. Negotiating your salary is another one that's really big. Like, the things that are actually going to bring more wealth to you and make it so that you're infallible when it comes to money, and it doesn't matter what your human nature says, you have a system built up that's bigger than that. I have two questions for you. Okay, so you, some people, I mean, saving $5 is a lot out of a paycheck. Oh, 100%. Do you have a percentage of every paycheck where you're like, put this percentage into a savings account? I mean, it could be $5 for people. Well, okay, so I do have percentages and I share these in the book too, but I want to preface this by saying, like wherever you're starting is great. Like, it's like it doesn't. Yes, I talk in the book about the 50, 30, 20 method. So 50% of your after tax income goes to needs, 30% goes to wants and 20% is action money. So that's the money that we're putting towards your financial goals. So like, that could be saving your, maybe your financial goals, saving your emergency fund. So that's all going towards that. Maybe it's paying off your high interest rate debt. It's all going to that. Maybe it's maxing out your Roth IRA. But like when I started my financial journey, my ratios, you think there are 50, 30, 20 girls? No, no, no, no, no, no. Yeah. Like they were like probably like 40, 70. Like I think I was overdoing it. Like you know what I mean? Just on wants. I didn't have anything towards future you. And then it took me like a year to make these small changes to then get closer to that. And also what really helped to be honest was increasing my income, which I think people don't talk about enough. We have to talk about it. And you know, we want to acknowledge that people are listening to this. Like I don't have money to say exactly. And that was me. Yeah. My most of my 20s, I don't know if I saved a dime until I was 28 or 29 really. And so we want to speak to those people. Yeah. Like there's, there's two camps. There's like, I do have money. I do have money to pay my bills, put it in my high old savings account. I just, I'm not doing it. And here's where to start. And you're lucky. You know, you have that luxury. And there's people that like, I don't even, you're saying saving and I'm barely scraping by. So did we cover your four things though before we get into? We were automating. Okay. Automating. We make sure that our accounts are that we like our accounts. We have a really cute bank account and high old savings accounts. And then we're focusing on our emergency fine. Okay. And we're focusing on our high interest rate dad. Okay. I want to say one more thing about automation. One part of the book that I really liked was you're actually, the analogy used was getting off of Adderall and how people go back to old habits. And so any new habit is really tough. And so anything you can automate, I think is really important. Yeah. Because like, I will go back to the like, every day is true. Myself day and every day is like, let's spend 70% of my income and percent. So anything that you can like break a pattern and just force yourself to do it. And I, I love that you got like really honest in the book. You're like, I have this addiction to I just keep going back to it and that is what spending is for so many people. I mean, I have a shopping addiction, it's hard to break those things. Yeah, and it's also, and I'm happy to talk about, I always, in the book, I'm like, I know this isn't a rock star's memoir, but I'm going to talk about pills and like, that's what makes the book cool because it's like, you know, get a little flavor. I didn't expect it and it wasn't that money. I loved it. No, it's fun. But like, it's the, the really why I compare it to that is because with coming off of Adderall, like, it was, I put so much energy towards it to get off of it and it wasn't like I was doing it illegally, it was just that I was dependent on it since I was little. And then the moment that I slipped up, I went right back to it because I didn't really understand why, but I think also because there's this idea and the culture that like, if you do a habit for 21 days, then you're just going to become a new person and never want to not do the habit again. And I am on the other side of like being a financial expert at this point, I'm a millionaire. Like it's like, I have done the whole thing successfully and sometimes I never wanted, sometimes I don't want to do it. So it's like, let's be honest about that too that like, sometimes to be the best version of ourselves, we have to do things that are hard and that we don't want to do. And like that might be how you feel about your finances, especially as a woman because there's so much against us in the culture that's making us have all this resistance to even taking those first steps. So you have to overcome a lot to even face things. Yeah. 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Well, let's talk about how the system is rigged against us, women and just, you know, Americans. Like everything is not, it's not designed. It's designed for a certain small percentage of people. And the average person, it's working against us. So how do you combat that? Wait, can I ask you one question? Yeah. You said that when you were, you didn't really save money till you were 29. So do you think that what the change was that you just started to make more money? Yeah, it was just that I chose a path that I was like working for myself. I mean, it was working in low-paying jobs, working in a magazine, working in PR. And then I went out on my own completely as a freelance writer. I mean, I was making no money and I just saw big things for myself. It's interesting your story. It resonated because when I was little, I was attracted to like the families in town that had money. And I was like, I want to be rich. Like I felt that nice cars and nice and we were just a normal family and we had all of our needs met. But we weren't wealthy. And I felt like I saw that life for myself and your story spoke to me. But I'm like, I have no idea what that's going to happen. And of course, we all went to Nancy and my ourselves were not on that track. I didn't have a trust fund. I didn't really like rich guys. I know it sucks, right? So it was like, how am I going to get there? Yeah. I think that I work really hard and I'm smart. And I believe in myself and I have big, big dreams. But part of it I want to say is just like I was making poor financial decisions for most of my 20s. And then it just happened for me and then I got smart about it. And then I was like, it's a weird thing because when you are not making money, you don't care about saving money. Exactly. So once I started to make it, then it meant a lot to save it. And then I got, I really got off on the money of my savings account because I had never had it. So it was like that thing. It's like the thing of when you eat bad and then you just say fuck it for the rest of the day or rest of the week. Yeah, once you start making it, then I started taking it more seriously. That's, I say the first financial goal that people should reach is really just getting $1,000 in their high yield savings account. And that feels so good. So good. And you can sprint towards it too. I can remember that moment. Yeah. 100%. And it's like then and also gives you so much self belief. Yes. But I do think also like there's such a toxic like side hustle culture too, where people think that if they're not making enough at their jobs, they just need to add more in. But it's like, what if you're a nurse who is working at a hospital and already working a hundred hours a week, what you're supposed to. Yeah. And you want to make more money. Or so side hustle. No, sometimes it's about taking a step back and saying, wait, maybe I should do private nursing instead because that pays like 1.5x more. Like it's not, and we should talk about the new American dream and how the old American dream is done. Of course, favorite topic. But I think a lot of it is also just like being more creative with our paths because for our parents, they had so much security being in the same job for 30 years already years. But for us, it's much more choose your own adventure and you have to drive your own ship. Or else you're going to get stuck in those jobs that aren't giving. It's a lot of sunk cost fallacy. We put a lot of time into something. So we think that because we've invested in it, it has value. But really only the only thing that has value is the thing that is paying you back. I mean, listen, it sucks. Teachers should get paid more. I mean, there's all these jobs that we really need that are never going to be high enough paid in our lifetime. I hope that they are. But it's just, there are a lot of things that are stacked against us. So I don't really start with that. But just in general, like how do we shift our mindset and make more? I think it's hard to get raises at your current job. And I remember when I worked at like Amazon, I did start this like side hustle because I was like, I'll add some more. And what I ended up doing was actually a bad job at both jobs. I did my side hustle. I did a bad job at Amazon. But I think we raised men to know how to negotiate and ask for more money and to change jobs if they're not making as much money. But I don't know that all women were raised with like the negotiation strategy. And they're afraid to walk into a room and demand more money and say, I'm doing more work. I would like what it's worth. And I think that we stacked it against women as well. I didn't know how to do that. And to Ashley's point also, I started to get better with money because I made more money. Yeah, exactly. But I didn't just wake up and learn how to do any of these things. I remember watching Wolf of Wall Street and I was like, I was reading the book. And I was like texting my brother like, I don't understand these concepts. But like, I'm just as smart as he is. I couldn't understand it. But I had no idea what any of this was about. Yeah. I'm like, there's so many things to start. First of all, let's talk about how to get a raise. Yeah, let's talk about it. First of all, the most important thing is to have a wind folder at your job. To have a paper trail at work. Create this literally today if you're watching this. [BLANK_AUDIO] you're tracking all of your wins because it's really hard to ask for more money if you don't know why you deserve it. What are you doing? Don't walk in that room. Do not start the conversation when I think I'm doing more work so I would like more money. They're like proven. We've had this happen to us. You got your wind folder out. Yeah, a little bit. It's like, so what exactly have you been doing? A hundred percent. You don't just get a raise because you've been there for a certain amount of time. You've got to raise because you're more valuable and they don't want to lose you. Really make sure that you're tracking those wins. Then I actually think this is a great opportunity to use AI because a lot of it is just not having experience having that conversation. What I talk about in the book, because I tried to make it really modern for what are all the tools that we can use for now. There is a bit about how to use AI to improve your life, improve your finances, and you can actually have the chatbot roleplay with you as your boss. You can then have the experience of having gone through what I'm going to talk about this, what the sore points are. You've got a little bit more familiar. Another way to do this is just talking in the mirror, but just having practice a little bit is always good. Then be really cautious also about when you're asking for the raise. Did you just find out that the company's earnings are in the toilet? Okay, maybe not the moment. Maybe we look for different jobs. Is it a Friday at 5 p.m.? They don't know it's coming. Be cautious about when you're actually going to have the conversation and then always follow up with receipts. I will say on the other side of things now that I have my own business, two things are huge green flag for me. One is when people negotiate their salaries when I hire them and the others when they ask for raises. I think a lot of it is also we think that we're going to lose our jobs or that it makes us look greedy or bad if we ask for more, but I will say now being on the other side, it actually just makes you look valuable and like someone that I don't want to lose and then I have to sort of buck up and pay the entry fee for or I'm going you're going to walk away from me because you have so much worth and you've contributed so much to my company. I think about the people that work for us and have worked with Ashley and I for years and what it would cost us to replace the people who are so valuable to us is way more money than giving somebody. 100%. So just know that it's a normal part of life, but in the same way that you're not going to cook a souffle without a recipe. You've never been taught this so it's normal for it to feel weird, but you still have to do it because that's what also everyone felt weird at the beginning. Even the richest people alive, Warren Buffett didn't wasn't bored knowing about the stock market. He also had to learn. Everyone ultimately starts from zero at a certain point. You guys are a top podcast. You had a first episode once. Yeah, you know, like it's like we all have to start from somewhere and the most important thing is just to start. Yes, I love that you say that and there you have a great quote and I can't recall it, but just like you don't have to be rich to start, but you have to start to be rich. Yeah, exactly. That's exactly on it. Okay, so just to wrap it up on the asking for a raise, I mean you have your wins, you go and you present them here's what I'm doing. Here's why I'm amazing and you know talk about the raise and then would you suggest like here's what I will bring to the table going forward. I mean, do you subscribe to that? I've been asked for a reason a while. Like, you know, I'm going to do more or you more just like here's what I've been doing and I would like to discuss my current salary. I think you talk about how what you have been doing and then if they say no, this is what's really important is that if they don't give you the raise, but you have all the data for why you deserve the raise, you need to understand what KPI's June need to be hit in order for you to get to that next level. And then if you don't hit if you hit them and they don't give you a raise, then you really have to go, you know, like that's not a company that you're actually going to move up through. And so that's important. And but I think that if also if someone says no, I talk about this in the book to is to make sure you have your batina, which is the best alternative to negotiated agreement. So if they say no to an increase in your salary, could you got a different title? Could you get more days off? Could you get more days working from home? Could you get money to take that course that you want to take? Like what are all the things that you could get besides money? Because obviously money is the best, but you need to plan B also. Other things have value. Other things have value, but also I do want to say like money is the most valuable. And then if you song cost fallacy is real. And so if you are at a job where you keep improving, keep taking on more work, and they're just not able to give you that increase in salary, that is you don't owe them anything. Okay. Walk away. Yeah. And I just think like I always I've probably overused the word value, but when I'm talking to anybody who wants to make more money, especially they're asking for a raise, it's like show about your value, but like what are you? Like we want to hear why you're worth more. 100%. That's it. That's the bottom line. No, present it the right way. Absolutely. I'm like, let me just get the old 100% like I want to be begging somebody to give them the money by the end of the conversation, like hold the veil over my eyes. Like I'm ready. Like let's go. My purse is out. Like I'm so down, you know. So yeah, that's really big. But I think you and also talk to your friends about it. Like I guarantee all of your friends are going through the same thing. So we also just need to open up the money conversation more socially because you'll learn so much from your friends about like how it is for them too. Okay. So make more money. And then make more money sounds. So I mean, I wrote that in the book that it's like it sounds like I was like record scratch freeze frame. Like wow, I can't believe this is me. I'm a financial expert telling you to make more money. Like how dumb do I sound? I get it. Like it's way harder than it seems. But I also think that it why does it seem so easy to cut back and why does making more money feel so hard? They're actually the same amount of hard. Like so stop putting it. Yeah, she's right. And stop putting it on such a pedestal. Making more money. Money is abundant. Money is out there for you. If you have value, then you will and you work hard, then you're going to be able to find a place where you are paid what you're worth. I really do believe that. I mean, that is the answer. Yeah. We were talking before we recorded on this financial nihilism. Yes. And just this system is rigged against me. So why even we try and you can use that mindset with anything. You can use it with dating. You can use it with weight loss. Like that mindset doesn't help you at all. No. So can we just talk about that a little bit about the system being rigged and how much debt the average person actually does have? And maybe like how do we shift that? How do we fight against that? Yeah, I love that. So just some statistics, the cost of living from 2000 to 2024 has gone up 67%. But we just have only increased 7%. I mean, I think about this all the time. It's so hard to get by. How are people getting by? I think about the rent here in Newark. Like who's living here? Like who can afford to live? I get so upset about this. Everyone should be able to make a living no matter what they're doing in this country. I mean, we obviously have to run for Congress. Like that's our next step. I'm on D. Who? But I think people that I think people are like, well, other people could afford something 15 years ago. It's like, yeah, because the cost of living was way lower. And I mean, to think about that increase, it should make people feel better at least about where they're at because like it is truly stacked against you. Like minimum wage even. I'm just like, I'm sick. If you work at McDonald's, you should be able to live. You should be able to go to the doctor or the doctor. Like this is an America problem, by the way, 100%. But we live here and a lot of people don't have a luxury to move. So, you know, vote and research. But while we're here, what can we do? Yeah. I mean, the system is so messed up. The obviously inflation has increased so much. Wages have stayed basically the same. Student loans are crazy. We're priced out of the housing market. There's also when we were younger, when our parents were younger, they would see maybe like 500 ads a day maximum, which seems like a lot even. And now we're seeing at least 5,000 ads. So you have less money, but you have more pressure to spend it on things. It's not to mention all the influencers that you're seeing who are selling you stuff. And then finance has also become really frictionless, which is a blessing because we're in the golden age of building wealth where you can do it all from your phone. Every person listening to this could open a brokerage account on their phone and start investing, which would be my dream. Please do that. I care more about that than you've been buying the book. Let's go to both. But also from your phone, you can use Apple Pay, like Apple be paying and be like drunk, asleep on the couch and ordering a $3,000 purse on the real, real. It's true. Like the access to buying things is unbelievably fast in our hands. And like some people are buying stuff because they're upset about the state of the world. Like it's you get a rush like the COVID purchases. People just needed to have something show up on their door and feel something. So it's just this toxic cycle. If spending and things are your thing and your broke and your upset, you spend you spend money to come back. It's all intertwined. A hundred percent. I have a friend who is one of my best friends. Think about that. I'm Mrs. Dow Jones is one of my best friends since college. I love her to death. But she has maxed out every single buy now pay later company, which obviously is like the beta my existence. I'm really working with her hit trust me on the case guys. But like when I go to her apartment, it's like she has every new road drop. She has the vibration plate. She has the like red light mask. She has like all of the shit that you're seeing on to talk like she has bought it and she's bought it like six times over. So I want to talk about this a lot. You open the book talking about somebody who was struggling financially. She's in this like designer outfit. And I ended up on spring trends tech talk the other day. And I'm scrolling and it's like all the things to buy for spring. And it's all these things that I threw out 15 years ago. So it's lace shorts. It's balloon pants. It's wet. edge sandals, it's all these things, it's barrel neck jackets, and everything is just like a tiny bit different than the current styles, but you're like, well, am I going to look like everybody else this summer without this stuff? No. And I think you just get in this loop of like all these trends and all these things, I have to have the vibration plates and you're just like, I have to have these things right now and it's in your face so much. And so I really like want to validate and I think we all do like, how hard that is to have thousands of influences in your face every single day, being like, this is what you need now to be valuable to society, to be as cool as your friends. I mean, it's really hard even for me to like be like, even if I have this money, I shouldn't spend it on this shit to consumerism. It's like killing us. Yeah. So let's talk about combating just like glamorizing this overspending and mass consumption. And well, I think first of all what I want to say is like, I think that there's this idea that to be good with money, you are not allowed to have any fun. Like that was something that really oppressed me I think before I started my financial journey was that I didn't want to do it because it felt like my life was going to be over. And that like, I was never going to be allowed to have another match again. The job manicures were over. It was like, okay, like, you know, the curtains going down on like the good times. And now I've got to like clean my, we've got to wander my paper towels. Like that's my new vibe. And so what's really important to know is like, and I, I create this in the future, which person spending plan that's laid out in the book is that you still got to have fun. You still got to spend your money. Like, it's, you don't have to, and that's why I was saying you only need to get like four things right in that system. It doesn't say that you are never allowed to enjoy yourself again. But I think that what's really important is to figure out a what you actually value. It sort of starts there. What do you actually value? And then also what are your traps? What is emotional regulation versus what is something that you're really getting an ROI from? So like, do you really love having plans in your apartment? Do you really love like a great mattress? Like you want to save for an amazing, that's like, so I think such a good investment, a good mattress or like, you know, you love travel or something like that. But I'm sorry. Like, I don't think that anyone, if they were actually thinking critically, would say the TikTok shop was like something that they really value. I really had like such a bad shopping condition. My friends would come over and be like, every closet is filled to the brim. And now I'm trying to like, unwind that and sell stuff and give stuff to charity and like give it to people who need it because like, it doesn't bring any extra joy to my life. Having that 15th pair of jeans. It's actually stressful like to come home and see so much stuff. It's currently very stressful. Imagine if you were in debt because of it. If you didn't have the money, right? It would have been an inner discussion. And I think, you know, I'm not having kids. So I have a little extra money. And actually, and I work super hard and I want to spend the money that I make. But it doesn't bring me extra joy by my 300 T shirt. I had to really say to myself, like, what is, where are you wearing this? Who is this for? What is this for? It's hard. You're like, but I want it. I like it every, but I have to have it. So I do think it's important. And for me, I'm a person who coffee brings me joy. I don't even in my brokeest of times. Like, I want to go get a lot cheaper back then. But don't get me start a lot cheaper. I say today. I look at $10. I know. But I just, those things I think matter. Like, you don't have to give them up. No, something is you do. But well, deprivation never lasts long term. Like we've all done a diet. And, you know, two days in, it's been great. And then the third day, it's actually, I'm eating worse than before the diet. And so the same thing goes with finances. You need to find a balance. And what the most important thing is to figure out how to have action money. And so action money is basically, what are you making? Minus what do you have to spend to live? And then what's left over is your action money. And that's what we put to work to make you become a future rich person. And I say this in the book where I'm like, I will be your financial dominatrix. Like you, I think something that's so annoying with it is whenever anything is vague. And the thing about finances is that it's actually not that complicated. And there's not, it's not so creative. The path that we all have to take to get rich. It's okay. Save your emergency fund. Pay off your high interest rate debt, max out your tax advantage to counts. And then after that, maybe you want to invest in a brokerage and you know, you can then from there, if you want to put like 5% into something fun, oh, I want to invest in crypto or get a bag or whatever the things are. But like, it's, it's very simple to grow out. It doesn't have to be so complicated. But in order to get yourself mentally in a place to even do that, you need to figure out what is driving me to not have the action money. And part of it might be, okay, the dissolution of the American dream. I'm just not making enough. The cost of living is so high. And we'll talk about that too. But then also part of it might be actual psychological sort of issues that you need to unwind. Like for you at least, and yeah, putting on my therapist hat, you can see it's a fedora if you're watching on YouTube. But you know, like I always say, rewind your childhood. Like your money behaviors are set by the time you're seven years old. So did you see your parents using money to celebrate things or was it like this, were they compulsive with their spending or like, you know, like what, what were, how can we track this habit back to the root? And I actually did, I went on, Brad called her daddy and we did this and we tracked Alex Cooper's spending back to like her dad losing her job, his job not her job. And she was in like a wealthy neighborhood. And so she had to rely on her friends always for money. And it was like sort of embarrassing. And then she did the same thing with guys in her early 20s. And then now, obviously, she's like the most into financial independence. And it's like, okay, it's a reaction to that. So it all drives back to something, you know, for sure. And then what about unfollowing? I mean, do you recommend, oh my god, yes, give us some like day to day, I am spending too much. And it's too easy. And like what is something I can do today to stop? So like, like I was talking about frictionless finance, like that that's really a huge issue. And so you have to understand like the smartest minds at the biggest corporations are besides like any sort of childhood trauma you're bringing to the table girl, like, there's also some really smart people and probably a bunch of like AI bots trying to get you to spend on it. Yeah, you look at a shoe on the, on a website, then you go over to New York Times and you're seeing an ad for the same shoe. And it's falling you around and, you know, by the end of the day, you bought the shoe. Yeah. So that is pernicious. And so with frictionless, with frictionless spending being sort of the enemy, I think the key is to add friction back. And so whether that means removing Apple Pay. That's smart. Yeah, I'm unsubscribing in newsletters. On follow, I mute a lot of influencers like straight up. Yeah, it's savage. I'll mute that. It'll train your algorithm. Yeah. Once you start scrolling through that step, it's just more, more, more, more, more. The spring trends, like I'm sorry, if you like one video about a hell, you're done. You're in hell. You're literally like the next all that you're getting are barrel jeans to the point where you feel like you cannot get out of bed in the morning tomorrow. If you do not have barrel jeans, like, they are in our head, girl. I think it's good to recognize that. Yeah. And if you are like, this stops today, or I'm gonna try, I'm gonna try my best. Look at it in a more negative light. Look at a bit of like, you're not gonna get me, you know, I think like you're not gonna. Yeah. I'm not falling for this anymore. You know, if you're really like, I need to stop. Recognize that this is what consumerism is doing to take advantage of you and take your money. I don't want to sound so doomsday, but it's like a mindset shift of like, I'm not gonna fall for this anymore and I don't need that. And my closet is fine and I look great. And I could do something else to look good or feel good than the jeans, the 10th pair of jeans. The 10th pair of jeans. And if you avoid it, a friend of mine said, all I do if I want to buy something is I just I give myself 48 hours. That's what you wanted at the end of the 48 hours. I say wait three days before you pay. Wait three days. That's the wait three days before you pay a method. I think it's really smart. It literally changes everything because you won't why it takes the fervor out. Yes. But it takes it out of your algorithm too. So like you say like by the end of the day, like the internet knows to keep serving you that ad for 24 hours. If you stop looking at it, it'll come out of your algorithm too. And I never want anything after 72 hours. Yeah. Yeah. But also same. But also knowing your why makes it easier to know why not. And I don't think that any of us have much clarity or most of us are never given clarity on our financial goals. But I will give you that clarity in this book of what your financial goals should be to a certain level. So it's like your first financial goal is saving your emergency fund. And it's very clear in the book. And I can say here why emergency fund is so important. It's like, you know, everything that can go wrong will go wrong. Like it gets you out of a bad relationships. It gets you out of toxic jobs. It protects you if like your car gets hit or you have a dental emergency or just all the shit that when life is life. You need a little bit of money put aside because you can't rely on credit cards to pay for that because then you're paying a high interest rate. So you need to put your own mask on first and get your emergency fund going. And so you have to also sort of brainwash yourself to the other side. Like we do we are so brainwashed automatically of consumerism. But brainwash yourself with good financial content too. Listen to the audio book. You guys have great episodes about money. Listen to those. Like try and empower yourself. Like it's almost like when you're making a salad dressing. Like you need to like balance out the ratios. Like you need to balance out the content that you're getting. And make sure that you're like teaching yourself and you are working towards a bigger goal. Because otherwise you're aspiring towards being fake rich, which is a form of financial nihilism. Like having 10 pairs of jeans is you basically saying I'm giving up on the system and I can't get rich. So I might as well just spend on my energy trying to look rich even though it's not helping me build wealth because the game is so rigged that I might as well not even try playing it. I love what you're saying about your algorithm because you know we all have at these moments where you TikTok is serving you something you're like this is what's going on right now and it's not. It's just what's happening in your personal world. world where you're like, I have to have this thing or this is the story. Everyone's talking about everyone feels this way and it's not true. It's just like of all the billions of videos that was the ones that again served to you. So if you just go to you, go to Tory Dunlap, go to repeat like that's what you start serving to yourself. Your mindset will shift that like this is what matters. And I think it seeps in even subconsciously like the advice and the language and the information. A hundred percent. I think that's such a good idea. Yeah. Like just today, like unfollowed influencers trying to sell you something and follow someone that's giving financial advice. I really had to stop. I also think what's really important to is like I hate the I talk about this in the book as well, but like the content online that positions it as like cute or organizing the yeah, glamizing being bad with money. Yeah. Like the girl who's like, watch me play a prank on my husband and it's like, I paid the mortgage and it's like, wait, I'm like, you're not supposed to laugh. I hate that. They're crazy. I don't like so many views are like, of course they will. Like it's really all it was a girl and she's like me with whatever left in my bank account and then she's on all these trips and stuff. And like it's funny. The woman that you opened this is the book with what she had something from the row. I don't have anything from the row. Like I'm funny about it. But it's just like I'm like, I can't believe what people are spending. She looked so rich. But there's also a huge article in the New York like this is really an issue like with there's article in the New York Times about these influencers who have hundreds of thousands of followers who teach people how it's called can you fake being rich. And the whole article is about influencers who teach you how to fake rich. And it is all from financial nihilism, which I coined this term in the book called learned financial helplessness, which is like when you think that everything is just so fucked against you that you don't even try. But like these influencers, like your what first of the people that are telling you like by these things, they're getting stuff from brands for free. They're getting sent all of this stuff. They're buying it and just returning it. These are loans from stylists like all these people that you're watching and you're like, I want to be like that. They don't have this shit either. It was gifted to them or borrowed. Some people have it. I guess people do sure. But like the percentage of people that actually have that are so small and you're being sold stuff with affiliate like getting got by those people. Okay. So I asked this earlier and do you want to hear what we have to say just for the state of the world. I mean, how much debt does the average person have? Gen Z, the average is 34 K. So that's like a ton of that personal debt, not a student loan. That's how to student loans and then student loans a whole other thing. So that's credit card debt. Yeah. Okay. That would be insurmountable for me to have climbed out of in my 20s. And then what about millennials? I mean, but you know, I guess just because you're younger you're under 20s, it's like when you have more debt. Yeah. I mean, that's just, millennials have a bit less, but I think that like regardless, people are spending outside of their means, but it's important to recognize that like it's not even always there's spec, like we villainize so much though, like the mom plitting groceries for her family on a credit card that she can't afford. And it's like, no, that's like a systemic issue. Yes. Yes. That's not. Yeah. But it's like, there's also when you're when you cross the threshold and this is the issue, is it then you can start looking at debt in a different way, like rich people have lots of debt and people just call it leverage. So it's also like, you know, how it's seen. But yeah, 34 K is a ton of debt. But in the same way, like there's so many ways to pay off debt. And I think it's so shameful. People feel so much shame about having debt. But it's sort of the same thing as we were saying with the algorithm and all this stuff, like the smartest people, the biggest companies are out there trying to get, I'm not farting, I'm just moving my chart. You were. I mean, we would talk about you after this. Okay, it's cool. No, and we talked about on the mic as well. They would call it crazy. She did a little too comfortable. She did a lot of farts. Yeah, sort of. Maybe she's one of those people. Yeah. Let it out. Sort of a power move. All girls are farting. Yeah. All girls are farting on rich girls are farting. But you guys go ahead. Let's clip that by the way. That's the most important part. So yeah, so the same thing was with the algorithm that it's pushing you into that. It's like, you know, the credit card companies are pushing you into that too. And they make the way that banks work and credit card companies work is off of your negligence. Yeah. So like they are profitable and successful because you are not paying it back. But the most important thing with debt, because I have in the book, I call it the bachelor at payoff method. It is the cheapest, fastest way to pay off your debt. Okay. This is the outline in the book. All out in the book. And you also get in the book, I've included like all of these amazing guides, too, that you get access to with it. So you get my free debt payoff planner, too, that has helped 10,000 people get out of debt. Amazing. And it all comes with the book. So and you'll have the resources for life. Okay. But the same way on the bachelor at where, you know, there's a bunch of men in the house, you might have a bunch of different debts in your life, you know, different credit cards, a car loan, student loans, whatever. And so you want to give them all a little bit of interest because you're a nice host, you're about to write, you're going to say hi to everyone. But you're going to give the special impression roads to one debt or to one guy. And that's the one that you're going to focus any extra money towards. So you're not going to put, you're not, a lot of people start to pay off debt without a strategy, but you have to be strategic when you pay off debt, because that's how you're going to pay it off the fastest and with the least amount of money. So you focus on the debt that is the highest. That's your first impression roads. That's what you're giving any extra money to paying the minimum on everything else. And then once you get the egg from that, a K, you pay it off, send it away, then you put whatever money you're putting towards that into the second highest debt and focus on that one. And then, you know, until that is paid off while paying the minimum on everything else and then so on and so on and so on until you have nothing. But then there's also I talk about all the other ways that you can pay off your debt too. You can do a zero percent balance card. You could do a debt consolidation plan. Like there are a lot of options. The biggest thing is just to make sure that you understand the reason that you were getting into debt that you figure that out because otherwise, you know, the bottle's going to keep leaking. So most of money stuff just comes down to cycle it. I mean, a lot of it comes down to just earning more and like making sure that you're making enough money because like we said, the system's fucked. Things are expensive, but like it's also a lot about just making sure that you are working on the actual behaviors. Well, the book is really just a wealth of information. We really encourage people to buy it because there are so many just approachable tips in it for how to do this and how to make your life a little more livable financially. And you've done a great job and it's just a fun great raid. So congratulations. It's nice to be around such rich queens, but who have like just really built themselves up. Like you are an inspiration to all of us. Thank you. Okay. Final question, final thoughts. You talk a lot about how to think like a future rich person or rich bitch whenever boss bay. So what is that or millennials so far for me? What is that encompass? Like I think we embrace that. The best way to embrace being a future rich person is not hiding from the truth that yes, we're in a new time of building wealth that is very different from our parents generation. And there's a lot of systemic hindrances to that, but doing it anyways because the best form of protest is to open that brokerage to take that first step despite the fact that maybe you do feel overwhelmed by everything that's stacked against you. You still have to do it anyways. And that's like the core of everything is just getting over that hump and recognizing that there are still opportunities. And then you know, of course, it's automation. It's having the right accounts and making sure that you have action money and making sure that you're not wasting your financial energy on stupid tasks. Like if you're going to put energy towards your finances, make sure that it is on high value things that you are actually going to get an ROI from. And I'll tell you what they are. Read the book. Yeah. And that's it yourself. If you are doing any of this, if you're reading any of these books, obviously your book first, you're a step up from other the average person. Oh my gosh. I always say that. You know, like if you were taking the time to consume this content and really try to learn, you are one of the ones that is going to make it like not everybody can make it and people are going to have to of course do these jobs and not make money and be poor at all these things. But if you're the person that's like I this changes now, then it will. You're under like a different class if you care and you're taking initiative. Yeah. And you can change your own life. There's still opportunity to do that. And I will also say that finance, the reason I'm so passionate about my book and why I wanted to write it is because finance books change my life. Like I really do think that they are the best way to become financially and you can listen to them. Like this is on audible too or wherever you got your audio books like listen while you're in a walk, whatever. But you have to invest in your human capital because that is what is going to bring you so much wealth in the future and no one teaches you this. So you have to just take it upon yourself to learn. Yes, girl. Well, thank you for teaching us and other people how to learn and you guys buy her book. It is really fantastic. It's so well written and follow you. Tell her where they can find you. Yeah. So I host financial tea podcasts where you guys have to come on. I really don't have you on. Okay. We want to talk about like the tea. Like we didn't get to that today. We want to talk about like just talk shit about like rich people like so let like all this stuff. I have so much about. No, we could go. We could come back for a different episode or come on my show and we could talk about whatever you want. But so I host financial tea. I'm a Mrs. Dow Jones. I have a newsletter and most importantly my book which if you're interested in improving your financial literacy, grab it or listen to it, but I think that it will be the first finance book that you ever finish. It's actually so good. Like if you liked like the click or a list or you know all those books from like then the new you're growing up in like the 2000s. Yeah, that's who this is written for all that. Okay, and it is on sale May 12 May 12 Yes, and you get so many freebies with it too. Okay. We'll link all that for you guys Okay, I'll get that and you guys can find us a girls got to eat com girls got a podcast to Instagram and tiktok I am ash has on Instagram and tiktok rena is rena dot greenberg rena greenberg dot com for her tour tickets subscribe on YouTube watch on Spotify share this episode with a friend share this share this if you share any episode. Yeah, share this with your bro friends. Yeah, I wish I would have had this back then and we will see you Thursday. Have a good week guys (upbeat music)