⏰ How To Avoid The Chop In The Big Eliminator

Off and on the clock, it is August 11th and boy, do we have all kinds of news to sift through? We have new contests. And today though, we wanna tackle the big eliminator. We've done a couple of shows on the regular eliminator which is quickly failing by the way. I don't know if that thing's gonna be open for more than another week, but we do have the big a limb. It's a hundred dollar entry, really fun contest, slightly different structure than the traditional limb. So we'll talk through kind of the strategic shifts. You'll wanna make in that and then naturally, we will hop in a big eliminator draft. I'm Pete with John and Nez. This is off and on the clock. (upbeat music) All right, Nez will be here in a second. He is tech lording right now, but we got John here in the saddle, ready to roll. Drinking, are you drinking from the fire hose of camp information right now, John? - I'm trying not to. I'm excited for some real ball to be played on Thursday. I mean, I'm enjoying scrolling the timeline and seen a bunch of football related content, but I'm not trying to get too high or too low right now. I'm not trying to victory lap any growing tweaks right now. I'm gonna let it play out as it goes here. I don't know, I made a little tweet this morning on I was reading Herzeg's email this morning. - Yeah, and he's talking about the loudness map and I was like, this perfectly encapsulates how I'm feeling right now is just, the drum beat is a little bit louder from certain pockets of the internet right now. - Yeah, I'll pull that up real quick. That was as someone who writes about this stuff most days, what's up Nez. We are just talking about the Herzeg post here of certain drum beats from camps being louder and that might not necessarily being indicative of a true drum beat and just some camps are louder whether their beat reporters have a bigger platform or what have you. And so we put together kind of a loudness map, a loud and rising, he called it the loudness tax zone. So teams like New England, Dallas, Denver, Washington and then on the other side, teams like Miami, Las Vegas, New Orleans, poor Nick Underhell has to put that entire beat on his back. But yeah, this is a really good shout from him, especially in the era of social media where often buzz is driven by whoever's shouting the loudest or shouting the most. - Yeah, yeah, well said, this is a really interesting chart for sure. I was reading, I read, you know, I'm an FF in 60 sub. Herzeg does a really good job with that. And I thought this was really interesting too. I don't know that I'm like totally aligned with the way that he, you know, I guess describes some of these beats and stuff. I guess it's just like your own temperature, like how you receptive you are to like the people that you read and whatnot. So like for me, like New Orleans, if I hear something from Underhell, I'm gonna be like pretty intrigued, you know? But like he's like, he's more fair and less just like loud and you know, about it. But we were kind of talking about this the other day about in regards to Jags news and just how much tutin hype there was. And you know, we love John Shipley, man. And it's just like does, is he just, are these beats just putting out, you know, stuff of what we wanna hear 'cause they know it'll circulate versus like how much of this is like 100% true. Some of these guys may be tapped into a fault was kind of like what we concluded with. But this was awesome, no, I really did enjoy this and it's fun to think about too. - Well, I think it's a good point to where the incentives for these guys, right? The beat reporters, it's the fantasy sickos who consume, not only consume it, but it gets aggregated by sites like Rota World, Underdog, you know. The Zanes of the World, which shout out Zane, now a contributor over at fantasy life from all of his beat reporter Hawking. But you can now tell that they are, they are incentivized to speculate on things that are relevant for fantasy too. Like I've noticed that where they take more leaves. Even going back to the initial Alec Pierce contract extension, there was the thing where he's like, I project him to get 10 to 14 targets a game now. And it's like, okay, you could say Alec Pierce gets a contract. The fantasy people aren't necessarily gonna pick that up, but you say you're gonna get 10 to 14 targets a game and now we all have to talk about it. - Right, exactly. We saw it firsthand yesterday with Mike McDaniel at the podium, right? He's talking about the asking about that recirculated again, from his time in Miami, and then talking about the Chargers guys as well, that this feels like a fantasy related question kind of thing. - Yeah, he addressed us by name. You know, he said, "Fantasy Bros aren't gonna like this." And I said, "Me, I'm fading your RV one, sir." - Like, there was another good thing that crystallized this loudness thing for me. I was doing, you know, Best Paul Breakfast yesterday, and I was talking about the Jacobi Lane, and there was the quote from the Baltimore reporter said it's the best training camp, you know, he's ever seen in 27 years, covering the Ravens, which holy shit, carry the Ravens for 27 years. I'm like, wow. - Yeah. - But then someone in the chat was like, did you see the new Jacobi Lane tweet that dropped? And so I go to my list to see it. And it's just underdog, recirculating that same thing. The Best Camp from 27. And so there's this loudness like flywheel effect to all of these news items that could all come from like those one single throw away line. And yet it feels like there's this heightening and you have to get in a draft and take fucking proper walking to the Kobe Lane nine rounds ahead of 80 feet. - Gotta do it, man. Gotta do it. The one that I was equating it to in my mind was the drum beat for the KC stuff. So I was really interested on where KC would fall on this chart because every single year, there's who's gonna be Patrick Mahomes by receiver three arguments and the new guy in camp every single year. I put a laundry list of them on Twitter the other day of like going back to like Pringle and Justin Ross and like these archetypes royals, like those kind of guys every single year. And the running back to from Kansas City, it always seems to be a focal point yet never seems to matter. And it's just like an anecdotal, you know, narrative based thing, but like it's kind of funny. - Oh yeah. Yeah, I mean, we are now like even even this morning, right? This Alec Pierce thing, the second shot and then GM Chris Ballard comes out and says there wasn't a second shot. And it's like, what is going on anymore where we can't even, we can't even trust this reporting. J.K. Dobbins goes down and me and Pat are, you know, hypothesizing what it means for Jonah Coleman. And then it's like, well, you know, J.K. Dobbins is gonna probably be fired, but it's just part of it's fun, right? Like what else are we gonna talk about? And I do think, I think it's a worthy pursuit, right? Like we all want to find the next Puka, the next Kyron Williams, we know there can be some signal in some of these drum beats. It's just when a lot of the signal start to, or the drum beats start to sound the same, it's like you're just overwhelmed with information that it actually is hard to parse. - Yeah, it's a big time for your sources, Aaron now. - Yeah, definitely. Nez, any other training camp stuff that you're buying or selling? - Yeah, so I'm in the process of selling this Jaden blue rise. I think it's gone way, way too far because at the end of the day, I mean, it's like, it's, you can, the wish casting is like realistic, you know, you would imagine they would like a more effective pass catcher, you know, to be out there on third downs than Javante Williams was last year. You would think they'd like to get this guy that they spent draft capital on, you know, Jaden blue going and like actually playing compared to last year where he just like didn't play at all. And you would think they would probably want to spell Javante Williams a little bit. But at the end of the day, that's all just like, what we are like trying to rationalize and think. There hasn't been anything to necessarily say that like that's going to happen. Like, film office playing just as much as Jaden blue is. And we just now just decided like, hey, like Jaden blue like isn't dead, he's not dust. Therefore, like welcome to the 14th round, like he's jumped like four rounds. And now this is like where he goes. And to me, I think that's where I'm like, okay, I'm going to pump the brakes there. And, you know, and pivot, pivot elsewhere instead of doing chasing the Jaden blue steam. I think it's, I think it's a recent fever pitch. - Yeah, I mean, I agree with you too. And, you know, one guy I was talking through with Pat yesterday was March on Lloyd, another guy who I think is just a bigger contingent upside swing. And I'm definitely on board there. I guess the counter to the blue rise is that we are so desperate for running backs after whatever called the Woody Marks line. Basically, now you have Pacheco who's injured. So now there's even more gap in there. So we're seeing blue push up. We're seeing Bigs B push up. Brian Robinson is oddly falling. You would think he would actually be pushing up a little bit more, but I guess my only thought is like, people need to take running backs in that rage. And there's no what else to take. And so people are now just taking their favorite of these handcuffs even if the contingent upside isn't as good as maybe some of the other ones. - I think it's a byproduct of this like really small like four day window here where we have the camp stuff. We have more buzz in the streets because we just had the Hall of Fame game and we have nothing actionable until those games on Thursday night. Because there's going to be targets that emerge for us for this back end where we're not all just fighting over the same four guys right now because the same four guys. is like Cyrus Allen, Jacobi Lane, Jaden Blue, and March on Lloyd. Like those are the same four guys that everybody tapped in, is fighting over in that back end right now. There's going to be some guys that emerge based on snap counts on Thursday night or reps with the ones on Thursday night. So I think it really is a byproduct of just this isolated window. But the nice thing I would say about Lloyd is at least the guy in front of him might get suspended still with an asterisks and is hurt. So like the thing, if you're just doing the Lloyd versus Blue thing, at least Lloyd's path looks a little prettier right at this isolated moment. Yeah, he clears like for sure. Can we talk about whatever I see one of these Dallas Cowboys training camp videos? There's a Jaden Blue one on the screen right now. This is the franchise in all of Americans sports worth the most. They're worth like $13 billion and they are playing on like a beat up field like feet away from a neighborhood. Like this is just like a backyard like Desi as a as the Texas person, what is going on with this practice? This has to be like a special thing that they did for like the community or something because they have like they have the frisco star, man, they have a gigantic like like state of the art facility where they do their offseason stuff and their training camps. So like, this is maybe a cowboy fan can step in and say, no, this is what they do, but I'm pretty sure this is like a one off them. I mean, okay, no, this is like a junior varsity team and somebody just, well, it does say Dallas Cowboys. I mean, this is just an insane locate for a $13 billion franchise. Look at this field in this backdrop. There's people just fucking grilling hot dogs on their patio back there in California. Oh, this is California, okay, still I mean, yeah, see, I didn't know that I didn't I didn't know where where the cowboys do their training camps. Apparently, everybody, everybody does. It doesn't change the fact whether this is taking place in California or Texas. It is still a crazy location. Yeah. I love how everybody came in here, spitting facts and like, hey, guys, sharpen up on your ball. No, it's just California. And yet the one comment that got me laughed at was Jake's comment that just says builds character. I didn't feel as character to be out there, boys. Oh, man, um, yeah, are there, what about like the wide receivers? I wrote about a few of them in the, the newsletter the other day, obviously, there's the Jacobi Lane, Cyrus Allen, Ted Hurst, Denzel Boston's been getting a ton, Caleb Douglas is an interesting one to me. Are there any guys you're mixing in a little bit more now that weren't on the June radar? I mean, I don't necessarily that weren't on the radar. They were just like guys that I would mix in in the 18th as opposed to, you know, all the time. And yeah, I'm saying this begrudgingly as though like it's like it's over, but like Pat Bryant for me is like the biggest one. Yeah. Because out of everybody that's like getting hyped and like rising and steaming, he's like the one that's like still there and like sometimes in the 18th, sometimes in the 17th, here in the 16th. And I don't know how long that's going to last. I mean, Jaylen Waldo will be fine, but Bryant is getting so much love from the, you know, notoriously loud Broncos beat the quarters, you know, not to sing a lot anybody, but then you have Sean Payton as well who does tend to like blow a little smoke if like memory serves, like he's in and guys get in front of K Adams and they say crazy things. So she, she was like, how are you going to keep that Bryant off the field? He's like, we won't. We can't like, you know, like she could ask him if he could, yeah, she would, he would say anything. The, no, I like the Pat Bryant one too, it kind of reminds it's different, but it makes me think a little bit of the Josh Downs thing where I feel like you're almost insulated from some of the buzz, like you're kind of free rolling the upside. Like, I think he's a, I've been selecting him in 17th, 18th round just under the assumption. He's like the wide receiver three there, but the way they talk about it in the way he has an ability to, I think earn targets at a higher rate than Sutton in, in certain runouts, then you have a lot of room to run there. Then you layer in contingent upside with Waddles injury history and like him potentially stepping in to an even bigger role when he gets dinged up. I think there's just a lot of outs, including the Denver offense, just being a lot better this year and throwing the ball well. So, yeah, man, Pat Bryant in Bonix stacks, I am there for it. Can I just say, guess Pat Bryant's emergence would not be great for Courtland Sutton. And I'm not just saying that is like the lone Courtland Sutton guy that's holding the line. I love that people pretend that like this isn't going to be bad for Jaylen Waddle too, if like Pat Bryant emerges, like no, it's actually just Courtland Sutton, like Jaylen Waddle is going to be totally fine. But like meanwhile, he's he missed camp and like really hasn't been like that great the last couple of years and if Pat Bryant does break out and emerge, I think we could just see like an annoyingly flat target share like a lot of chargers last year where we want Waddle to be our lad, but they actually can just spread the ball out crazy style. Like I think it'll be really interesting to kind of see how this all pans out. But at the end of the day, Bryant for me is like a, if I was to bet on somebody to rise in two weeks by like a round or two, it'd be, it'd be Bryant. Yeah, I like that. Um, what the, it's funny because Waddle and Burton are kind of similar. I guess, you know, both fourth round guys, both very busy moving up both now with some, some injury concerns. I would say Burton's slightly more severe than, than Waddle's, maybe not, we'll see. But it's like the people are holding the line, right? Like Waddle ain't slipping, like Burton's barely slipping. You know, he like, like if you see him in round five, it's, uh, it's an anomaly. He went at pick 37 and one of my best ball breakfast drafts yesterday. But yeah, I think now's a nice time. I think to cool off on those guys, slurp the dipperino on guys like Garrett Wilson, Ted Arroyo, some of the less sexy names that are now kind of falling back, uh, to the end around four, uh, chats going crazy for ESPN sources. The Vikings have named Kyler Marie, they're starting QB, uh, I think we all knew that was going to happen. Or is there still any lingering concern for you guys about the J.J. McCarthy charade, meaning there is some late season ventrisk for him? I mean, for sure, because we've seen Kyler be bad in the past and we're wish casting him in a KOC offense, obviously, but they spent a first round pick on J.J. McCarthy and just because couple starts went poorly if this team that has playoff aspirations finds themselves on the wrong side of things early, um, yeah, I mean, why wouldn't you turn to J.J. McCarthy? So I think the quarterback, especially when you're paying Kyler a million bucks, right? Like Arizona's paying him to not play for them this year. Like, they're just kind of free rolling the Kyler upside right now. So there's no financial incentive for them to play him, you know, there's probably almost financial disincentive to play him because he probably has built in like bonus structure stuff. Like when we get to like week 17, week 18, when we're going bonus hunting, Kyler might be like a prime sit guy if the Vikings are out of it, uh, in a vacuum, I think he's probably going to play well enough in a KOC offense for it to not matter where I'd like to think that's the case. But if we knew that definitively, he'd probably be, he'd be 10 or 11. So I think it's kind of baked in right now. Well, and I mean, I know crutches is like half joking, but he's completely right. Kyler better pick in a limb, embrace debate. I mean, that's the whole thing. Like, sure. The late season risk, uh, if Kyler crushes it, but the team is maybe struggling. And I realize that those two things are probably going to be, you know, mutually, uh, connected there. But I do think just you get to offset any late season ventries with a limonator like give me 14 weeks of, of Kyler kind of doing a Justin fields thing, even if the team isn't, isn't great. You're probably pretty happy with that. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And Chad layering on, I was just looking it up as well. He doesn't have a backend incentive stuff. So yeah. Anyways. Runways clear. Yeah. 1.3 million. Yeah. What? The Cardinals are paying him like 30 million or something this year. Incredible. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The, the, the, Kyler Murray will be the Vikings 4th different week one starting quarterback in four years, after just to eat out 2023 was cousins, 2024 was darn old. After your McCarthy this year Kyler Murray there, Sam, why, why, why are you feel like people are just like so fired up about it? Yeah, but all calves Kyler Dave starter. I love it, man. Yeah. Do what? Kyler news bomb. I think Alec Pierce not getting injected was a bigger news bomb that, uh, yeah, starter, very, very strange reporting on, on my guy Pierce, uh, let's see. Any other news and notes to you guys want to hit or do you want to talk some strategy for big o' limb here? Well, yeah. Sorry. Sorry. The last thing I was just going to say is like the Jadarian price, you know, kind of missing practice. I think sucks. Um, uh, there's, I was just, you know, going on a shopping spree of him in my slows and just like taking them and gobbling them up. And, uh, you know, we got him missing practice, which, which they sound like not worried, but I'm worried. I don't, I don't love to see that. So I'm looking, I hope that we get a priced it, but right now it's like he's, he's a really tough click now. Jim. Yeah. It's, it's, it's not a big deal. It's a big deal. Oh, yeah. It's not a big deal. It's not a big deal. It's a big deal. It's a big deal. It's not a big deal. It's not a big deal. It's not a big deal. Yeah. It's not a big deal. It's not me in that backfield, I was Gretchen and Jacob just did their exercise if you could know one stat line from someone. I mean, figuring out this Seattle backfield, it really feels like when you, considering the prices that it really could be the key to the season, like if you told me that price was a non-factor this year, I mean, aren't you just taking sharbs in Hulani in every single draft, like at their prices and vice versa? If price is that dude, he is just such a smash in the sixth round. I think I just want to continue to be really open to, almost with the commanders backfield too, where I like now kind of taking stabs on all of it, like I, I'm still interested in the Seahawks especially if price gets cheaper now. Yeah. And especially with the timeline of sharbs right now, like we were all like, whoa, there was even a consideration or chance at week one with that first initial report, like we were all forecasting like week 11, like what if it is just minimum stay on the season starting pop of that four week window, and he's practicing as soon as like the 21 day window opens up in like week two or something like that, you'd be like, holy shit, what did I do with this price bag? But I was doing the same thing as I've been buying a lot of price in the slows and in the bad roast brawl. So I think I might have to pump the brakes a little bit there. Do you guys want to play like a super dumb fun game for a half second? You had me sold that super dumb. I just want to each say a name before this weekend, because we're going to have a bunch of preseason ball action and we're going to have like some 17th rounders and 18th rounders that nobody's thinking of right now that are all of a sudden going to be in the player pool. So this is the scroll the F down, like who do you think after this weekend people could be like, holy shit, this guy went for for 40 and one and they get like all jazzed up about in the back end of drafts right now. Okay. I'm scrolling here. You're saying like after pick 200 basically? Yeah. I'll give you guys some time to think about it because I obviously was thinking a little bit about it as I was framing the question, but it kind of came to me when we were talking about like the Cyrus Allen, the Jacobi Lane, the Pat Bryant. Like if those guys, like if Cyrus Allen and Jacobi Lane, who are clearly going to play at least some preseason snaps, both go goose egg this weekend on like 20% of snaps with the first team. We're going to be like, oh, we got to rethink this kind of thing. The one that stands out to me is Malachi Fields and everybody is, you know, Wishcapstein, the neighbor stuff, big red zone target. What if he's just like the wide receiver to there? Yeah, I mean, I think the best picks for this game are the rookies, right? Because we're already going to be so quick to Wish on them. You have all that ambiguity in New York. I could see it too, right? No, a lot of people don't want to buy the likely stuff, although man, the likely drum beat is actually kind of humming along, really good to it for being honest. But yeah, I think Malachi Fields is a good one. Yeah, for sure. I'm taking a lot of Malachi Fields right now, he's still available in the 18th. He's been flashing. I've been hearing good things, be it saying that he's like, like, we just need to figure out who the wide receiver three is, which I was like, oh, shoot, okay, you got like four vets with like a combined like 30 years NFL experience, like interesting. My guy right now, I just lost him and it's going to like really hurt me. Oh, yeah. Shout out to Colton, who was in my solo stream chat last week, putting me on to Malik Benson. Yeah, get hit, he's a rookie for the Raiders, and he looks good, like he has a lock on wide receiver three. Trey Tucker kind of has seniority. They just signed Jalen Naylor to big money, so he's kind of on the outside looking in on two wide receiver sets right now, but he's getting a lot of buzz, and I have it on good authority that he's dusted the anti-thorton and Jack Bash, so all right, okay, I'm listening. Yeah. I am listening. Yeah, so be on the lookout, man, because like if he makes a play in the preseason, like people are going to have no choice but to look his way because it's Trey Tucker and Jalen Naylor as wide receivers for this Vegas team. I mean, if you say you have someone else for me to bet against Jalen Naylor with, I'll just say say less. I'm in, yeah, I love that. I did just, yeah, totally learn a name today. Malik Benson, had you heard that name, John? I'd heard it because I went back and watched a little bit in as a solo, but I had not heard it before that. Yeah, cause I was streaming just real quick, it was funny how it came about, and I was talking about Vegas, and then Colton was like, oh, dude, mine the league Benson bags are down bad. And I said, you're back, so who, that's down bad already. And then I, you know, I paid him some respect after I said, all right, okay, I see. I'll do, I'll do a non-Rookie one. I will tell you this, if Darnout Washington pancakes someone like, or stiff arms someone into the ground over the weekend, like his 80 people just shoot up two rounds, like literally one highlight reel. It'll be like, fire moves, not a thing. You can't take Darnout Washington off the field, like it's just one truck stick, one sunning a dude right into the dirt, and he's like a 16th round pick. Like you know, it's true. Yeah. 100%. That's just going instant viral. Yeah. There are some really good names in the chat right now, people are going absolute ball knowledge on it. I like this one. And the short list there was Ollie Gordon, Ollie Gordon, people forget how many usable weeks he had last year, like maybe Jalen Wright just is dust and you know, we don't want the second. We don't really want any part of Miami right now outside of like the HN and and Willis. So I mean, yeah, maybe why not? Yeah. What was the, there's another one. Yeah. And Clayborn Eli Raredin is a good one in that I do think we're, you know, we're all looking for a little bit more late round tight end upside. So if we could have one of those guys that become draftable, I could see one of those rookie tight ends popping there a good bit. Bangle's wide receiver three is a good show. Bangle's wide receiver. Oh, Bangle's wide receiver three. Yeah. Apparently it's not Yoshi Voss. I think he's struggling. Right. So we went down this rabbit hole with Burton. What was it? Two years ago where we all chased the Burton dream in the late rounds there. He was the field stretcher, whatever. But yeah, maybe, maybe cool, be young and Mitchell Tinsley won't wear their pajamas to practice and can be the third string guy there. Yeah. And the answer might just be Gisickey, maybe in a little bit, right, bigger role. But yeah, that's a good one for sure. That's two because we've seen that contingent upside over the years when one of those guys is out in that wide receiver three steps up and gets what seven targets a game. Yeah, exactly. It was Jermaine Burton, right? Jermaine Burton. He was the one that was crashing out. He was playing slots in the casino and all that good stuff. Yeah. Good old boy. One of us. Yeah. Yeah. Let me who has not played a little slots cast the first stone. To be honest, I'll think I've ever put a dollar in a slot machine. I'm a fraud. Seriously? Yeah. You've never done a single spin? No, not a single spin. Live a little. Good Lord. Are you like from the Levitan school of game, like when you're in a casino, it's like I could not hemorrhage. Stay from the pit. Yeah. Like, I'm very much like that. Even when we used to get like banged up in Vegas after like poker sashes and stuff, like it would, the only thing I would ever play is double deck blackjack with the boys. And usually it would just be like, everyone pulls their money and I take charge and play it. And we all win or lose as a team. I never really liked like the peaks and valleys of half the crew being up and half the crew being down. So I was never really about it. Yeah. I kind of like that. Hey, if I was gumvee, I'd have a fucking dog will check not a dog will qualify or double qualifier here. No, I would have I would have paid you for sure, not as someone who like just punts it off, but I thought you would have been like the, yeah, I'll, you know, have a few pops and play craps with the boys. Uh, no, not really, yeah, I'd have the pops and hang out. I just never, I just never really gambled because I was like, I've do so much gambling already, right? No, I mean, to your point, I'm just more shocked that you've like literally never once like put a quarter in a slot or something, but I don't, I don't find slots enjoyable. Yeah. All right. I did mention the PSA on the eliminator, uh, we are at, this is the main eliminator here nine or 85% full. I mean, this thing, this thing, yeah, I know, well, this is what happened is initially I had like 15 or 20 saved. I was like, I'll do them all, you know, fast in, um, in August. And then I noticed the fill rate and I'm like, I'm not going to have time to do this many fast. I jumped in some more slows and now I have, you know, four more to do here live before, uh, before they fill. So yeah, make sure you get your eliminators in, but we also have the big eliminator, which is also filling very quickly here. Uh, it's at 61% filled. This is $100 entry. 50k to first, only 2,760 entrants. And then the big difference is this is how the eliminate or contest was structured. I think when Underdog first did it a few years back, where instead of head-to-heads for most of the contest, it's progressive chop line. So 10 of 12 advance, then 8 of 10 and we 2, 8 of 10, 6 of 8, 6 of 8. So a little less weekly or week to week variance, compared to the head-to-head stuff, you're going to be competing against more teams each week. There are a few that stand out specifically when you get to week, I believe 7 it is, when you go to a 4, that's where you get into that coin flip territory. But any thoughts on the big Alim and how you guys have been thinking about it? Yeah, for me, it's sort of like business as usual in terms of like a eliminator strategy for me. There's not a ton that I'm really changing, except maybe being like a little more open to some of the early bi-weeks because of the forgiving advancements on some of those. Like weeks like 5 and 6 is 6 out of 8 and then 4 out of 6. So just being maybe more willing to take guys with those early bi-weeks and then obviously still making sure that you plug those holes, but I think I'm more willing to just because of the forgiving structure of advancing. Yep. What about you, John, any tweaks that you would make here? I know. I don't have anything groundbreaking to add there. I thought that was pretty well summarized. I think just one macro thing is like, we like to think we're good at projecting quote-unquote floor and you know, the archetype of guys we draft in the eliminator are like the floors not. Guys, I wouldn't get too hung up on floor in middle rounds of drafts because that's kind of where rosters go to die. You can search for floor with like back end tight end and stuff like that just because they'll project so much better on a week-to-week basis in the later rounds, but I'd be really cautionary tale of like we think we're finding floor with a Jalen nailer aspect in round 13, like that would kind of just be like my one macro eliminator thing that I've been thinking about. Yeah, I've just like the whole bit of eliminator-ass players. Right. Right. I think I'm with you on that too of this idea of I care a lot about I think the structure that I'm building in the by weeks, but I mean, even going through my eliminator slows, you know, I'm still clicking Omar Cooper's and Travis Hunters and like I'm trying to build juggernauts because it is similar to Best Balmania in that you're trying to accomplish multiple goals and when you get to weeks 13, 14, 15, 16, you are going against juggernaut teams and having added juice injected into your roster via late season breakouts is a name of the game. I mean, we talked about it a lot with the Michael Wilson on a lot of those awesome eliminator teams last year. Like you still need to find some of those breakouts. You can't just, you know, a good example would be like if you were always taking pop Douglas over Michael Wilson last year because pop Douglas projected for more week one targets that didn't feel so comfy come week 13. Exactly. Great analogy there. And to be fair, to chat in the chat there, it's not a jail and nailer take. It was just top of mind because it was a name we were throwing around earlier. I actually think the nailer report with cousins kind of matters, but I'll keep those thoughts to myself from who nailer Malik Manson's backup is out who we're talking about. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I mean, is there any, why do you, why do you think underdog does it like this for the big a limb as opposed to engineering it similar to the main a limb with the head to head structure? I think there was just desire for it throughout the like, I don't think everybody hated the original limb. I think we all just agreed that the new a limb was better. And I think there was still desire to have something that resembled the chopping block guillotine style league and doing a time box smaller contest like this, despite the price point being a bit higher, kind of just addressed, you know, both avenues opposed to it just being a 10 x price point. Yeah. And I think people want to feel cozier with their $100 and draft something like this where like the, you feel pretty good about your chances each week as opposed to like the coin flip of the a limb. And if you did a big a limb for $100 with the a limb structure, what would you need to do week one, like 11 out of 12, like how you know, you would probably need to be doing some big pods until you get to head to heads for the rest of the week, just because of the size of the contest. That makes sense. Yeah. Crutches in the chat same for me at least it's definitely easier in a limb than BBM because I'm a less player, take focus and just more focused on buys instructors. Yeah. That same concept there and then I was going to pull up here just looking at the specific weeks here and where the, let me get my screen shared, where the percentage is our for how many people advance each week. I think this is a good thing to know for buy week mapping and one of the most important buy weeks here, let me pop us over so we can actually see this for a second. But yeah, so like at the top, right, the first few weeks, it's 83% advance, 80, 80, then down to 75, 75, 67, it's week seven where you hit that 50% advance. So I would circle week seven as one to be specifically cognizant with buy weeks. Then you go back up to 67, 75, 67, then it's week 11, back down to 50%, and then week 14 and 15 and the rest of the way out, it's dropping. But just immediately I would say week seven and week 11 jump out as weeks you want to make sure you're pretty spread out at buys. Yeah. And that's really important because week 11 is the week in which we have the most teams on by. So we have six in that and there's also like some prominent teams like Packers Ram, Seahawks, Patriots, Falcons and Browns, like all with top premium fantasy assets. And week seven is all the kind of quote unquote elite quarterbacks inside of like QB nine and down because it's Alan Trevor Lawrence, Herbert and Jaden Daniels in week seven. So it is pretty impactful that those two elimination windows align with elite quarterback play and good offenses that have high ADPs in them. And one thing I'll say too is if you do max, it's obviously $1,000 and to break even, you have to have one team make it two week 11 and I believe win. So I guess advancing to week 12 will put you at break even. Okay. If I'm understanding that correctly based on what my LLM is telling me. So that's a that's a starker cash line, but then easier to level up after said cash line with that week 12 76 67, you know what I mean? In terms of like actually, it just means if you get one lineup there that you can recoup more than yeah, yeah, recoup more faster, but the importance is getting one there because the EV of that lineup once you get one there is actually higher than like in BBM or something when it's now like, okay, you got one over the cash line, but you still have to go one of 14. Well, no, you actually only have to do 70 78% and 67% there following. I don't know how you control for that, but it's just an interesting thought in terms of recouping banquerel. Yep. Um, yeah, and then Matt, Matt's asking you a beginner question, how does structure change for a LIMS? I found myself in rooms with eight to 10 wide receivers and I was sitting there with seven feeling stupid. I mean, the biggest thing for me with structure is I do like the triple onesies a lot more because a lot of the benefits. You get from the double onesie or whatever in BBM, it's just a lot tricky. You put yourself at risk when you're guaranteeing yourself two weeks where you only have one player going and so you're just far less resilient to to buys to injuries and I think it pushes you to a lot of those three quarter back three tied in builds. Yeah, and the ceiling shot like fancy zeros at like the flex skill, skill positions don't go as far like obviously if you smash with like the Michael Wilson pick, for instance, sure, but like the quote unquote, fancy zeros of like Jacobi Lane right now, like you'd way rather just have the mean projection of Pat Fryer move. Yeah. Nez, any other thoughts on how your structures change in a liminator? No, but I have like a structure that I do really like and so there's like two structures that I'm doing like quite a bit and one of them and this is like Galbrain, but I really like the way that these teams turn out. One of them is like double elite tight end and then another one. is like dual anchor wide receiver and then just like hit every other position like fill those spots and then like make it rain at the end of your draft with nothing but yellow. The double elite tight end thing I really enjoy because it's just like being open to hey hopefully one of these guys is your flex every week and then that sort of changes the way that you think about like the rest of your roster and like putting less pressure on your flex from these from these other spots and then kind of like the same thing with the dual anchor wide receiver where like I'm hitting that running back window hard as hell and acquiring a flex there and then after that I'm just back feeling a wide receiver three every week hopefully and I really like the way that those teams turn out I think that they make a lot of sense when they're finished. Intuitively what you're saying that makes a lot of sense. Yes and yeah and it helps do with those elite tight ends because they have late buys like loved ones 10, Bowers is 13 and McBrides 14 so that like also makes them like really attractive builds for me too. Nice and I would say the other thing too it's just like I mean this is kind of the meta across all drafts but I think even more so an eliminator you'll see the ADPs pushed up but like you do want to get your running backs early for the most part I mean just the benefit of you know you think about in a BBM pod you could let the chaos of the season kick in you find that league winning contingent play you know week six week seven that breaks out and you like slowly charge up the leader board by week 14 boom you sneak that team into the finals eliminator you're not making it to week six so you didn't you didn't have time to wait on that zero and it what is the thing that's easiest for us to project it's early season running back volume and so you know once you get past what the Jordan Mason's the Aaron Jones is of the world there it's you're taking on guys that just aren't expected to touch the ball much at all and it makes it really hard I think to build good eliminator teams if you don't have I don't know at least three or four running backs by by that range and ideally even more than that I think the most applicable application of that is you'll see that Kyron Williams and Chavonte Williams are really pushed up in that third round whereas in BBM like nobody really pairs them with the 101's everybody kind of does you know Gibbs and two wide receivers are beach on the two wide receivers now you see them with like ADPs and and well they're kind of in that like 28 29 range there which is just five spots higher which means they're paired with the left side of the board guys so it makes that double running back start on the right hand side of the board way more attractive because you're not really having anality of the fallback guys to the other side in a third all right I say we draft fellas let's get a big eliminator going here looks like we need six people for this one four more and we will see what we can cook up here I might download the established the run eliminator ranks as well just to see kind of what they're what they're cooking up yeah when you use the solver do you have like like the biweek overlap cranked up you know I hadn't adjust you know what actually I need to do I need to get back I need to get to um firefox I keep yeah I keep defaulting to uh this after uh I always I'm such a chrome maxi but now with both solver and sidekick being uh firefox yeah I know I usually take again and maybe you have different settings on firefox but I I think I always have like team stacking basically like zero zero yeah for the elin yeah yeah I just don't want to incorporate it in their you know in their scores in their solver scores like the net benefit of stacking is more biweek based than like the actual correlation angle uh in terms of like negative versus positive yeah in the eliminator yeah yeah yeah I don't I don't really I'm not really into that yeah I need my team stacking lower here biweek jacked up ADP in the middle yeah yeah that's good okay let's uh let's get in here we have the one seven um I'll get ranks uploaded in a second uh jsn oman raw genty lamb you guys want to do jsn or pull up genty jsn jsn the uh the late bi on jsn is nice too yeah and the fact he's gonna rexels again uh this year uh and just destroy all the regression bros is just gonna be chess kiss I yeah well it's funny because it I mean it does seem like people are a little spooked on jsn and yet like I guess what CMC flips him occasionally but other than that he basically is never falling much more than that right I'm the new I'm the new jt over a movement that's what I've been doing I'm like a pretty stark jsn fade right now so you're the guy that nez would just sub to you yep yeah I guess so but at least he's doing it for jt reasons which is like fair um I I don't jump jsn because I don't think enough people are high on jsn so like I want to make sure I take him every time at five but I'll take jt over CMC for sure yeah we talked about that a little bit with Chad last week on the weekly winners show and why Jonathan Taylor makes so much more sense over CMC in that format I think it's definitely an interesting conversation for a eliminator where I do think there's a more boom bust element to Taylor's profile where CMC's floor could be more attractive yeah he's just like 20 points pre-loaded feels feels good all right back on the clock I do like H&N here to lock up a running back I mean you could also make the case for Bowers if you want to get spicy I'm H&N yeah me too yeah I do think it's like you're getting such a nice talent bet here you it's a really you can be caught here pretty quickly at running back like there's moves where love Kyron Javante Jacobs breeze all could go by the next time you pick here at I want it be for us yeah pick 31 yeah and then it just gets a little dicey yeah hard to pass up there that last year of running back just goes like you said it's not it's not the same as pvm you're getting different options on the way back and we just got a quote from the dolphin said coach I don't know how old it is but you know I just you know I just saw it that they basically said that like hey we might have to like carry H&N off the field some games because we're gonna use them so much so love that love that shit so I gave him the heads up this morning you better be in good shape there might be some games where I have to pick him up and carry him back to the locker room because he's gonna be so tired geez well that's uh be careful man he's just a little guy that's someone who's been having to watch Ollie Gordon get some reps at practice it's like all right it's all you H&N uh-huh the uh that yeah we mentioned two keeping an eye on some of the biweeks so we do have the JSN week 11 biweek so we'll keep tabs on that but again if you get a team to week 11 in the big olem you're also probably pretty stoked so exactly he'll be a part of it we'll see what we got cooking in here we got JGFC in here uh we got Gunner Gross we got crutches we got two binis here got all Allen all the friends and family yeah usual suspects that's that's kind of what I was talking about with the running back like illustration there on the left hand side of the board you just don't see that in BBM yeah are you guys gonna max this I think so had had a nice night and at the MLB streets last night so I think I I know it to myself first time in a long time brother let me tell you all right back on this counts rice Devonte uh I would be good with one of those yeah either or a larvae Devonte or a larvae I'm not I'm out on rice all right let's do Devonte uh get that late by there I mean uh I'm I'm definitely a rice bear myself Nez but so I'll let you uh give the rice rice bear case here yeah I think the when you're tie breaking uh Smith a larvae and rice uh the week vibe by you know it was like an easy you know caveat to fall back on uh to just say oh you know I really buy a week but also I think Smith and a larvae are like definitely the more talented wide receivers that aren't coming off a jail sentence and an ACL or in an in a knee repair um so for me that that just means a lot and you're like and a lot of it I feel probably better about Devonte Smith so that we took them there just in terms of like target share that I think he will be able to command I think a larvae will still have a great target share as well but uh if Tyson stays healthy he's certainly gonna chew into that uh a little bit it's not quite as dominant um as as like Devonte Smith's target share is but Yep, yeah Neighbors man in a in a hundred all our limb. We're just to sleep at the wheel everybody on the left side of the world Yeah, I mean, I'm definitely not taking flowers over him Let's see here. Are we feeling swift would probably be a nice pick with that week 10 by lad is the slight faller here Yeah, I'm good with lad I think I think we can back feel Ronnie Mack John Nez I think I'm swift. So you break the tie. I like swift All right, John Yeah, sorry, that was that was hard to say no to this is gonna be this room is gonna be so green Like I I don't even I don't want to take more than like one detour at a time at running back at the You know for the time being that was my thought That yeah, lad feels a little bit more like a luxury there I don't know. I'm also just getting a little spooked on lad is well the more they kind of talk about this offense and Every every Mike McDaniel quote is just it's like we're gonna be spreading the ball around and use all of these guys as Equal chess pieces on his board and I just him More spooked that whatever kind of target share we were hoping that lad could kind of ascend to is just Not as possible as as we might have hoped. Yeah, there's there's certain offenses that just kind of fit that mold and like them in the Jags Where I kind of talked about it the other day with Nez that I was like playing the Jags more through two And then the passcatchers and maybe that's completely wrong because he doesn't even have a standalone role But it's just like there's certain offenses that I want to be in on But I just don't know how to play the whack-a-mole of the passcatchers side of things and when that's a bad recipe for a Limbinator versus like BBM Yeah Do you guys hear that like rattling? No, okay. Yeah, good. All right, the guy next door is That's right is that the is that Jacobi Lane drumbeat McLaren Adams price DJ Moore Watson Probably a wide receiver here McLaren week seven by seems fine Adams week 11. Well, I don't know if we want to do that Terry, okay, Terry at five seven I Mean these are the 2v2's right like John of like lad in price or lad in Jalen Warren versus Swift and McLaren like right I think you got to get that running back. Yeah, well done boys. I was I was leading us astray Uh Yeah, it is There goes Parker Washington here. Crutches grabbed hendo at 54 price goes 59 Yeah, that just real quick man the neighbors fall is just Dude, you know, we got soft, you know soft elimination structures here, you know to start the season and this is like a fresh Elimination contest to where if you're like worried about like really good Malik neighbor seems that got him like 10 picks later You know, this is this is this contest drop of Malik neighbors was like going early. So, you know have no fear Yep All right, we are coming back around here at Pick six six. Uh, I think Vermont. I love Ramondray. So I mean, I know it's another week 11 by but at cost This feels nice to me here Yeah, I Go John. Yeah, no, it's just a big line in the sand tier break for me after Ramondrey Yeah, I think redo and dobbins are solid but man Ramondrey Ramondrey I think has a chance to do it early in late, which is really nice. Yeah, I've really liked this like running back window of the next three rounds I would I would like to to spend some time in that window if possible because after that it gets like really really shaky Yeah Yeah, Crutches said he almost pulled up Mandre over over Hendo there. He almost comes back Yeah, so yeah, you go price then Warren Pollard Stevenson Rico What do you how do you guys think about stacking in big Elim? Obviously, you know Jayden Daniels with McClaurne is like an auto click in the traditional formats the stacking Can sometimes be a little bit more of a bug than a feature in the Eliminator Yeah, I agree. I do it in two instances and like they both kind of overlap or like I'll do it If I'm taking like late picks, you know, we're like hey, I don't know how often this guy's gonna hit my line up You might as well like correlate with my quarterback and then I'll also stack if I have like one rushing quarterback and then another You know pocket pass or something and then like stack that guy take to really kind of get the best of both worlds there That's really the the only times that I do it, but I don't you know, I'm more or less appointed Yeah, I fully agree with you there and as and it's interesting that like Drake May was right there and Daniels was there and they had the opportunity to I think don't know who it was stack AJ Brown with May and they opted for the inverse which that would be like a auto click in BBM Yep, um Let's see. I'm I'm pretty Godwin pill that also be down to do a quarterback. I mean Dax week 14 buys pretty sick What do you guys think there's no running backs? No, okay Harvey if you want to take a flyer on him. I kind of like Harvey. Oh Shit Godwin or Harvey. I'm good. I got Harvey. There you go Can't have my tongue there. I was sort of like interested in the naked Joe burrow, but he's falling there a little bit more lately But I would I would have been into that, but I like Harvey - so this might be a little gallbrain I think naked Joe burrow is probably bad for isolated scoring and bad for advancing if that makes sense Like you know because like the archetype of pocket pass or that he is if like Jamar chase smashes It's going to be stacked Jamar chase teams whereas like if you're the guy who's showing up to the fight of like a two out of four And there's the reason you got there is burrow go burr You're not going to want to go to battle against the unstacked ones in a four person pod I guess like how often is he going to be stacked? What are that likely what's the likelihood that you actually face a Joe a Jamar chase Joe burrow stack like the archetype of quarterback that I want Eliminators one that scores a lot of points, and I don't care about stacking so to me. I thought I thought in a sense, but I'd be down for a Lawrence or Herbert I'm here Herbert or Bill I Don't mind pulling up Bill either if you want to do that Let's go build in this room's gonna get stupid. Yeah, let's go. Bill. We'll feel really happy about having five running backs in the RB five being Bill Yeah, I trust that Nez has been deep in the weeds on this stuff, and this was the pocket of running max He wanted to attack. Yes For sure. Yeah, so now we have H&Swift Ramondre Harvey bill Only Harvey and Swift with overlapping buys there in week 10 and then we have the JSN Devante McLaren I like this build a lot like the five early running backs you get some really high-end wide receivers Yeah, we know we're gonna be able to spam volume at the onesies Yeah, and when you're less concerned with stacking dynamics at the onesies You don't pigeonhole yourself to quarterbacks like if we did this in BBM, and we're like holy shit We have no stackable quarterbacks left other than Donald and we got a force a backstacker We got a force a skinny stack in this contest It's just like take some projected points from those mid-tier guys and take three of them Like easier to execute the Yeah, I think we're we're doing good on the wide receiver buy weeks. We have 11 10 and 7 here We did see a run on quarterbacks, but this is a nice pocket coming up as well with the Brock Stafford Knicks Kyler golf range It in a vacuum if I was building portfolio in this contest I think I would want to be overweight the elite quarterbacks and underweight the whole middle portion Okay, yeah, I would say man, party would have been a nice one Bone Knicks I like a lot I'm cool, and they could also do a what do a wide receiver if you like one of these guys. I'm probably Knicks What was on the green button right now? I'm just curious for like general Running out running back that green button that great. Yeah, we're down to C. Rod Tracy Keaton Mitchell Woody marks wow What do you guys think about the the Four to eight point a week guys with contingent value in this format versus like bbm per se so like Instead of taking like the Lloyd tier you're more up to take like the Brian Robinson or Algier tier in this contest because Maybe those four points matter or is that just like not on your radar because if four points matters like you probably dead Anyways Is it me and Ozzy floor? That's what I'm asking. Well, I think you kind of compared running backs that are like similar like when you brought up Brian Robinson Like I think Alvin Camera versus like the contingency plays is probably I think like a better way to to illustrate that unless I'm like misunderstanding and you, and I take, you know, Albuquerque and everything, but I prefer him to like the pure handcuff guys that could give you like four points. - I'm sure. - I'm willing to buy the Pierce falling out of here. By week 13, the stuff today is that he's still on track. - He was that, he was, yeah, I mean, I'm buying the dip too, man. We just got, we got word that he's not, that he didn't get the second PRP injection and he's, he's working with trainers off to the side. He's actually like there on the field. So yeah, I'm, I'm buying the dip. It seems like he's like actually on his, on his timeline. Week 13 by two is nice. - Yeah, I think that's the, I think that's the way to play it. Obviously his ADP is much later in this than it is BBM and you haven't been really able, I guess I didn't do any BBMs today or, you know, late yesterday, but there's, just doesn't seem to be much of an Alec Pierce discount over there. So to, I'm willing to take the discounts here. I've been, I've been taking the Luther Burton discount in some of my eliminator slows as well, like piling in on him in the dip in ways that I haven't been able to get him otherwise. - Yeah, I like the mindset with the Luther Burton one. I did see the downs over Pierce a couple times. I did five BBMs yesterday and I did see that happening. The other one I did see that I was trying to do was people getting over on Tyler Warren. We talked about having that accidental fade on Tyler Warren just because of the pocket of the draft board that he went in. So I forced it a couple times and I forced it actually with some JT teams and then didn't even add dimes on one of them where it was just like those, that's where the offense go bird those two and then played other stuff. - I got a sprint to the podium for. - Kittle, pass ADP in this economy. All right. - He's my highest on tight end right now. I just did a portfolio check yesterday on stream and I was happy to see that one. - I think like one of my neighbors, Godwin Kittle, like all three of these guys, we just continue to hear good stuff. Like they're fully good to go. I mean of all of them like Kittle and Godwin they're saying are like back to their, you know, pre-injury explosiveness. Neighbors I think, you know, still might be a slightly slower start but I'm just drafting these guys with confidence now. - Like it dude. - Who's your Godwin source? 'Cause I can't find these bullish reports that you speak of. - Oh really? Oh yeah. I just included one in the newsletter, the other guy. I can send you some peering on myself. - Yeah. - I was looking for peering report and I swear like I didn't hear like anything from them. It's been just like all Ted Hurst. - Yeah. I can pull it up for you. But yeah, I have zero concerns about Godwin. Let's make this pick and then yeah, I got a question. - We probably should look at quarterback to make sure we don't. I don't know how you feel about the darn old with JSN. Otherwise, I think Stroud is just a different bi-week pick is really solid. - I'm fine with darn old. I'm fine with a skinny stack. If darn old's one of those quarterbacks, if he goes bird, it has to run through JSN anyways. So whatever. And we're gonna add a third and find with it. - I love saying darn old. So yeah, I'm now seeing Holy Chris Godwin Jr., the box veteran just caught a wide receiver screen is fourth target in about seven plays from Peter Report. All right, all right, man. I'll capitulate. I'll capitulate. - It was funny. I was going, we did a show with Dwayne yesterday on Fantasy Life. We've been like working through his wide receiver tears piece. And he's really bullish on both igbuca and Godwin. - Nice. - And that was, I thought, an interesting signal there where he came away, like he's Uber bullish on igbuca. Like I asked him where he thinks we could be drafting igbuca next year. And he says where we're drafting Lamb and Jefferson. Right now, that's how bullish he is. But he was also extremely in on Godwin because of these health reports. And just his long track record of just earning targets in this offense and the slot, that just both him and it's just like Evans clears and it could just be the igbuca in Godwin show. - Yeah, Godwin before he got hurt was cooking. And then after he got hurt, like that's just like the memory that I have is like seeing his twisted leg and seeing him like try to, you know, he's like, oh, he's actually going to play this like last year and then he did try and it didn't work. So I was just like, I had that in the back of my head. Denzel Boston for me. - I was going to say, get a little of the drum beat here. Second week 11 here, but yeah, getting Boston some more upside. We got the two quarterbacks to the one tight end. - Yeah, I was just about to ask we get a little a hot recap right here for the audience because I want to play a little catch up here. - Yeah, we got Bonix and Darnell that quarterback by week's 10 and 11. We have those five early running backs. H&N Swift from Andre, RJ Harvey and Bill, just Swift and Harvey with the same buy. Up to five wide receivers now, Jason Devante Smith, McClauren, Alec Pierce, Swift, that Dipperino and Denzel Boston, two week 11's there, JSN and Boston, but otherwise Rainbow and then George Kittle, seven picks past 80p there. So I think we're doing well here. We're going to hit a nice tight end pocket. The one thing to look at is the quarterback stuff. I will say though, with the eliminator, obviously Berset is way more in play. I do think with these two up top, you can play the Mendoza, wait, I think it's what? Week five, week six at the latest for him. You can play Gino and I think you can play Tua with him likely to be the more healthy guy at the start of the season. So I don't know how you guys would want to play QB3 or if we just kind of punt that a bit. - I think we could punt it here. We'll see what tight ends come back. We're in the hype zone where it's like, this is like get your guys range. - Chick here seems real nice to me. Who else is there? - That's way past ADP. - Hawk would be the other one, but Chick is a huge faller and I'm not entirely sure why. I don't mind pairing him with Kittle. - Okay. - Yeah, I like that. - Are you skeptical on Chick, John? - Yeah, very much so. But even at this Bryce 162. - I think if you just had to ask me if I was building projections right now in a vacuum, I think I would take Hawk and Aughton over him this year. - But I was being a big limb or straight up? - I was just kind of speaking straight up. Like if you just had me build projections, but maybe that's just because I've never been the big chick guy. And I thought he was artificially propped up because of the lack of WR2 and now we have a good one. - Yeah, yeah. So we add, you will, the thing too is some of those guys. I think we might be able to get a third here. I mean, now that Gatston's falling a lot, Sadeek's falling a lot. Like I think you can put together these three tight in rooms that even do have a little bit more week to week volatility, but just kind of playing that game of hunting for big upside. - Yeah, I think the only way Chick doesn't hit is if they bring in Zach or it's again. And then that's just like goddamn it, man. Why do we gotta do this? - Why do we do this again? - 'Cause his target competition is strong. It's Terry and Diggs. But then that's it. And then you have Kate Oton who has like three pretty decent wide receivers around him at all times. Plus they're just like a much more difficult room to compete for targets. And I would say the same thing for Hawk, but Hawk has sort of like mystery box upside with this Kyler season coming. - Well, we've sufficiently fudded nailer, 30 picks past ADP out there, Crutches grabs him. - I could do Jacobi. I could do Floor-Noy. - Yeah, I'd say Jacobi or one of the tight ends. - Okay. - Like I'm fine with. Yeah, Jacobi's ADP right here in the limb. - Yeah. - Yeah, it is. - Sure. - I like that there. Nick's Darnled. I guess the tricky thing with Brissette on this quarterback team is ideally he's covering you on a bow-nix or Darnled by-week and a week 10 or 11. It's probably like really close to the line of when he would be expected to give the reins over to Carson Beck or whoever. - Yeah. I'm hoping that he plays well enough that he, it's just like right into the best ball playoffs is when he gets benched, like post-buy, like they give Carson Beck that time to prepare if it happens. I'm not even sure that it does happen, but I'm hoping that he can hold the line well enough because everyone that has watched Carson Beck play is adamant that this dude cannot play. So I'm hoping they're right. - Counterpoint. - Yeah. - Hall of Fame game versus the insurance salesman, baby. One no-look pass and practice the other day. - Hmm. - Okay. - Dude, I like, I love these prices on these three tight ends who just went off the board. T for 177, Gatsden, 178, Cedique 180. Like I think this goes back to what we were talking about where I think some of these guys are being overly penalized in the eliminator format and you can bring them along with a good structure and then try to supercharge them. the team down the stretch because me and all of those guys have have such nice upside. I mean, the Gatson one blows my mind because, oh, let's make the pick. Sorry. I was going to say like the Helmer Dulcich look nice to me unless you want to grab this, this Florida I dip here. I think Florida 80 Mitchell Pat Bryant, one of those guys, John 80 Mitchell. Yeah, he, I mean, he continues to get buzz week 13 buys nice, Florida I buy is nice as well. So hilarious 80 Mitchell tweet yesterday with all the Colt receivers being hurt and all whatever. And they're like, you know what, this team could really use right now. Like the Colt's team giving up 80 Mitchell, 80 Mitchell. It would be quite literally the perfect fit for what they need. Oh, I like fiercest bagged up. Yeah, crutches Pat Bryant went 170s in this draft. Well, he's already gone. Yeah, he's obviously the, the, the, the Ferg, you know, beat just gets louder and louder and Davis and Leonie talking about it yesterday. But we talk about Gatson for a second. Like, why is he falling and why is he falling in the BBMs? Because we're really excited about this offense. We think this offense can play heavy at times. Is it, you know, but nobody wants to take to Joku? And is it like the effect of whatever 27 year old Charlie, how will it Charlie? I'm just making it up. But like, is that the, is that what's putting it down? Because like, we're talking about a rookie tight end who had like almost 70 targets and over 650 yards as a rookie. Like, that's rare in this day and age in the NFL. Like, we talk about the breakout age of rookies and rookie tight ends being kind of like the second guys to break out. Like, what, why is this happening? If I speak, I'm in big trouble. Please do. Don't want to be big trouble. Please speak. It's the fucking colar stuff, dude. That's it. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. People, people are very much out on, on the guy that John Harball was talking up last year before even played NFL snap. No one knew his name. And Harball couldn't get enough of this kid. And, yeah, but, you know, they signed Charlie Colar to the, what was that the, anyways, let's make this pic. Yeah. So, Dolsage come out the board. I put Cassicki in the queue at the last second. Otherwise, a wide receiver. Cassicki's good roars plus floors and contingent upside. If anything happens to Tee. Like, we saw those monster games and monster target shares when Tee wasn't there. I'm fine with that. Yeah. I mean, I think there's a pretty big gap then to the Parkinson ingram. The aforementioned colar and a joku. And then we can grab one more wide receiver flyer to close it out. Cool. Look at Levitan has me using the queue now. I'm glad. I was sort of understanding him. The Josh Oliver contract is what I was trying to say. I believe it was the Josh Oliver contract. In relation to the cooler. Yeah. Yeah. They got like the same, the same deal. I see. Okay. He has a cut option next year when the actual money kicks in though. Like, he's getting 2 million base this year and four against the cap. Like, if he sucks this year or they don't like him, and he is 27, if they don't like him or he doesn't fit the mold they want, they can cut him next year for like very little colar. That would is actually after two years. That's better. But yeah, he's worth 8 million next year. He's worth two this year. The cap hit goes up like 6 million next year. I mean, it's fine for like an inline blocking tight end. I got I don't know. He had okay receiving chops at Iowa state. So that was that was that like pre-COVID or like, at what point do we stop giving a shit about what guys didn't call it? So like, right. I don't know. 41 career targets in the NFL. I put Hurst in the queue. Torrey Horton, if you want the double stack with darn old Caleb Douglas, catching buzz, lay any of these guys jump out to you. Hurster fields. Yeah, Hurst. Oh, yeah. What was here? Malik, I fields after he goes off this week and we'll grab Hurst here. I really liked that Hurst. I think he's I think he's nice there. All right. This one. This one's in the books. 3573 Bo Nick Sam Darnold, Jacobi Berset, H.N. Swift, Ramondre, RJ Harvey Bill, J.S.N. Devante Smith, McClure, and Alec Pierce. Oh, Denzel Boston, 80 Mitchell, Ted Hurst, George Kittle, Chica Conquo, Micah Sikki. Yeah, I think this is kind of like the epitome, I would say outside of what like, Swift and Ramondre are some eliminator aspects. Otherwise, we took some pretty big swings here to try to build a super team. Yeah, I like the approach for sure. I don't know what you guys think about putting like the condom on with like one last running back in this last round instead of Ted Hurst, but it's probably not necessary. If this team goes far enough, like, like, what is because I was thinking of two names in the last round was Budal and James Connor were the two I was thinking of of like that archetype of like, or Justice Hill, like those three where it's like, we know they have rules. We know they could have rules on their teams. We know that they could give us six or seven points when you share two by weeks with the Swift and Harvey stuff, but I don't know. I think I like, I guess I, I guess I would say I don't like to me that almost doesn't feel like a condom play. It feels I feel better about these wide receivers. Okay. You know, hitting, hitting our lineup. Like I feel like the James Connor stuff, you still have to hit kind of a trade out. The Vidal one, I don't mind. I think the Vidal is probably what the closest thing we have to like, Holani, where you just like could get some stand-alone value there and pretty good contingent. I like the Vidal shot. I took him in a draft yesterday. Yeah, I prefer the, the Hurst, the Hurst pick there. When you have this like running back room, you got five early, like this is like you, you kind of made your bed here. Yeah, I think you just ride with this and take a wide receiver who can like catch a touchdown, you know, just like without an injury. Yeah, cool. Yeah. The other one I would ask about and maybe this is just me going a little too far, but I was talking about it yesterday in the framework of BBM, how like, you know, what's the easiest position to fill with mean projection? Like it's, it's the onesies, right? And we did kind of like a punt onesies style build here. Like are the best last round picks actually quarterbacks and tight ends and that we could build the plane in reverse by shearing up our flex and taking like to and should wear sanders with our last two picks or taking like to and hurt cousins or like these guys where we're pretty confident they'll start with jobs and could just like hold. The zero risk is just like, like insane, I think to take two of those guys and they share the same, and they show the same by week. Like that's just like, yeah, yeah, I was just throwing out examples that we don't have to get into the semantics of the, the by week one V1 because I didn't even look at that, but I was just like kind of like the mental framework of being like, we're taking fancy zeros at the end and we're probably taking zeros. But you can't take quarterbacks at the end because there's none left, you know, like there's no quarterbacks left. Like the quarter, the last call for quarterback, like literal last call is like around like 16 in terms of like projected points in the first like four weeks. So it kind of like tight end, I'd I'd hear you out, you know, all these like Parkinson, mayor around around 18, my guy Theo Johnson not drafted. Yeah, I think you could throw those those dudes on on the end of builds in around 18 and feel like fine to good about it. Sure. Yeah, yeah. Okay. I was just kind of curious like what it would look like in reverse if you did like, you know, you take out the bone next pick, right? And then you get like, you know, something that's a little bit safer there and you do like darn old percent to in the 17th, where you do like, I don't know, is it fancy place in room? I think the next thing, the reason I like that it and you mentioned kind of wanting to even prioritize the elite quarterbacks is because I do think having a guy who can drop 30 points, could be very helpful, specifically in some of those smaller pod weeks. I mean, looking at this roster, to me, the question is more, should we have taken Bryce Young or Aaron Rodgers over Denzel Boston? And then you don't have to take reset. And then you basically have a 2v2 of let's say Bryce Young and Ryan Flornoy, verse, Denzel Boston, verse Jacobi, reset. Like that, that's kind of where I think like would you trade off a little bit more quarterback security for a slightly less enticing wide receiver selection? Yeah, I mean, I think, I mean, this is just like a player take, but I think like, reset and 2v2 have more, like basically the same job security as Bryce Young. No, that's what I feel though. Like that's just like who Bryce Young's been benched both of the last two years? Right, but there's a huge difference between the team wanting to showcase a rookie that they drafted. And because basically then there's like the Bryce Young, the only way Bryce Young gets benched if he plays awful. There are scenarios where those other quarterbacks play just okay. And the team is still like, we're not in playoff contention. We need to see what we have the right. So I do think it is a different bet. But I hear you that, you know, Bryce Young has bench rest. But let's say it's Rodgers or Gina. I mean, I think I think it's more than right. Yeah. Yeah. So. But then just because there were some pretty good wide receiver values in this room, I mean, crutches scooped up both Naylor and Floyd Noir there, that would be my only thing. It's like, do you try to not miss out on that window? But like, if there's a format for Jacobi Bressett, like, it's this one, like, we know he performed. I mean, what was he fucking slinging it 50 times a game when he was playing that signed it up for that early season? Yes, please. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I was just kind of, I'm not sure I believe it at all. Like, I was just kind of thinking about, like, if you can build the structure in reverse, because my mindset is usable weeks is so much more important in this contest that I either want to be the elite quarterback guy or the full pun quarterback guy, but that might be too extreme. Like, that might be too polarizing a strategy. Oh, yes. Also, when did Bressett actually get benched? Did he miss like one game? He didn't get an awful stretch, but I don't think he got like benched like he did in 2024. Yeah. That was the endie, Dalton year. Yeah. I think it was only injury related last year. And last year, we had games, we had spike weeks from, from Bryce Young, man, he, he put up three, twenty eight and three, one game, four, forty eight and three, and then in the playoffs, he went two, sixty four, one with the twenty eight yards rushing into touchdown. I mean, right. Right. My point is more that you can find spike weeks at quarterback from anyone, opposed to other positions. I was talking about bench risk and, and, and what not, and then, but I know you're, you're over arching point, but like, dude, two, two, two, two, I could have good, good games with those weapons. I'll, I'll give you that. But like, I think like the Michael panics being healthy, like, does two, like, step to the side because they want to see what they have in the rookie quarterback, as opposed to two, who was just like, they're on a free ride. I think that is, like, inherently, like, mad risky, okay. You know, like way riskier than like, do we bench Bryce Young for Kenny Pickett? Right. Yeah. That's fair. The Kenny, Kenny Pickett comp for sure. So that's the Trump card. Yeah. He considered that he's only wearing one glove now, though. So looking back, like, just a, not to put people on blast, but just going through. Let's do it. What happens when you kind of ignore running back? So two minutes here gets CMC does do the detour for hours, then goes Kyron. So now he's catching up at wide receiver, also does double elite quarterback. So he has only two quarterbacks through nine rounds. He takes Keaton Mitchell at 116. That's fine. Then you pull up Bigs B, who we're excited about, but could be a zero for a good chunk. And then you're now having to take guys like Holani at 173. You're taking Connor P. Ryan, like, this roster starts to have like a lot of zero risk on it and like needs things to break really perfectly, I think, for it to kind of navigate this structure. And I would be wanting to avoid builds like this, if possible, I think. Yeah. No, I agree. And that's why I was trying to find usable weeks at the quarterback position at the back end so that we could build the plane and reverse that way. But I guess the risks of zeros at the quarterback position also don't make it funny either. So maybe living in the middle tier is the way to do it like the way we built. I will say this team, so the team, I'm, I'm mainly just looking structurally, oh, this one's interesting. Creator here from the 12 did four quarterbacks. They did Kyler Jones, Rogers, Mendoza, and then they only did four running backs up top Henry, Jacob, Skatebo, and then they tacked on Sharps late. That's kind of a funky, a funky construction. But I like this tight end build too. You get Warren and then Cedique Parkinson, like, I don't know, this team kind of intrigues me. Yeah. It's definitely creative like his name suggests. So that's, yeah, it's cool. I don't know. I mean, if you look at the other elite quarterback team, so JGFC, like what do you think of this one? He did the just Alan K. Love and shut it down, but he did get early running backs, hook, chase, brown, Monty, and Menongai, and then he punted tight end. He goes likely Ferguson, Otten. This feels like a strong build. That does feel strong. Punting tight end feels very strong. Yeah, I really think there's like no wrong answer at tight end and best ball problem. I do think Punt tight end is stronger in a limb, for sure, but I think like tight end is just like so strong this year that I really do think that there's like hardly like a a wrong answer. We were looking at ties, team, yeah, like I at least he took seven running backs there, but like, you know, that is like sort of an example of what can, you know, how things can feel less good when you do go elite tight end, you know, when we were highlighting his team. But one hole has has a pretty, you know, he's he's got a traumatic bride there, a little bit comfier with like the the running back play that he that he ended up getting. I kind of like that quite a bit. I agree too, because I just think there's such a big difference in this window, Algier Spears, Camara, where I do think you're going to get points from all of those guys versus like this late window, like, I mean, what, after round, you know, you get Samson blue, I think they're going to have a little standalone role. For that, there's a lot of zero risk with any, any running back you're, you're taking here. And then it's just like how many, how many of those can you realistically add on to a team? I think it's fine to have like one, but if you are in an anchor zero or a B build, where you need two, three of these guys, I just can't imagine that being good in this format. Right. Yeah. Uh, but there it is the, uh, the, the big, a limb, uh, fun contest. And like we said, make sure you guys are getting your entries in here soon. 62%. Uh, it'll probably, you'll have a little extra time relative to the main eliminator. But people are hungry for these. We even had what the French a limb over the weekend too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of a limb formats, uh, coming out, uh, this, a limb is going to feel very fast. It is, you know, rapidly, uh, close to closing, I have like 20 something left. So that's sort of my, uh, my prerogative at the moment. And then completing my badge for the Brawl Expedition. And then it's go time after that. How many more BBMs do you have left? 90. Oh, you're back waiting son of a bitch, love to see it. Yeah. Sweat Lord over here. It is crazy. Cause what eliminator is going to fill in the next seven to 10 days, weekly winners is going to fill in the next seven to 10 days, um, the slow puppies going to fill in the next seven to 10 minutes, uh, nice. Nice. Yeah. Like everything here, puppies ripping along, uh, pit bull. How many do I have there to, I, has someone, have we talked about this, has someone come up with the alert? I need a Twitter account that has all of the contests projected fill rate and then like warnings of like, Hey, T minus five days for the pit bull. You might as I need, can someone do that? We live in the, the AI slop world. Someone can code this up. I will promote you. I will shout you out. Can someone create this service for everybody? That might be the, the easiest path to 50 K followers on Twitter. There is right now. 50 K. Relax. Relax. Cool. I saw the space, baby. Maybe 500 followers. Haha. Oh, man. Um, yeah. I, I, yeah, what do you guys think because obviously they, they want to get BBM filled. So once the decks clear on weekly winners eliminator, I bet that fill rate will pick up. Like, what do you guys think the contest offerings will be down the stretch? I'd like to see another super flex once more, you know, one, one more for the road. We, we had the $3 super flex and that was it and a French super flex. Um, I'd like to see one more super flex and, I don't know, can they squeeze in a fourth puppy? And, you know, we've got almost a month. Yeah. But the season, with the season starting a bit later this year, our timelines are a little fucked up because we're all drafting. Like it's starting at like September, 2nd or 3rd, you know, like we're, because we have this mental framework of like, oh, that Labor Day weekend and then go. But now we have all the way until the 9th this year. So I think we're going to get at least something else in that regard. I think super flex would be like the easy and obvious. But we might see that in the variety of a Frenchie for IDA. Yeah. I'd also, I mean, I feel like people love, you know, based on the filerates for the Pitbull, the Chao Chao, the, you know, the 101, uh, Domation entry, like those, those midstakes, uh, have been very popular as well. Hopefully we get a few more of those boys. Give me $100 or five max before you give me another puppy. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Um, good stuff. What do you, uh, you guys got anything else going on today? Any Membes only? Yeah, I'm going to push over right after this. Membes only. Baseball. Your boys take a care of that one. And then Nezzi and I will be at it again tomorrow. We'll do some football tomorrow, probably a pretty heavy football show, to be honest. Kind of like lighter baseball slate and want to do some more football together. And then we will do football on Thursday as well. And may or may not be mixing in a multi sport members only there after a lot of my timeline in the next two weeks is going to be pendant upon people calling me of, you know, keys and go here and go there and sign this or sign that and whatever. So moving setups and moving studios and whatever all while trying to keep our regular schedule. So I'm trying to plan it all out right now. >> I should also mention, I know we've gotten a few questions about it over the past couple of weeks, we are going to have some updates to the master class, including a look at 2025 data kind of comparing it to some of our initial data findings that we put together for the course. So if you guys are underdog master class subscribers, you're going to have access to all of those updates. We're going to have a couple new round tables as well. And if you haven't gotten the master class now, would be a great time to grab it as we are what, less than a month away from week one battle royals. It's all evergreen strategy concepts that will get you caught up to speed really quickly here with the underdog master class. And yeah guys, I mean, we're firmly in bestball mode, but I can already feel it in the back of my head. I'm ready to switch over to be our mode. I can't wait. >> Yeah, be mindful with your bank rules people here coming up. But I know you want to push all these last bestball contest. You guys are going to be blown away with some things in store with the first couple weeks of NFL. >> Yep, got to keep some powder in the chamber there for week one, NFL. For me, I got swolecast up here at 3pm. I do think we're going to draft. I have bestball breakfast tomorrow. It's a super fun lineup. So I've been doing different lineups on Wednesdays. I am going to have, you know, cups will continue to kick things off with me at 10am. We're going to have Chad candles at 1045. >> Hell yeah. >> Excited to draft with Chad. And then at 1115, Madison Parkhill, who does work over at, established the run also has a great substack reducing uncertainty. And then my goat, Chess Liam is going to back clean up at 1215. He left me on red for a while. He told me he'd get back to me, made me wait three days, but I finally reeled in my old Chess coach for a draft. So yeah, Wednesday, bestball breakfast will be fun. And then Wednesday afternoon, we're doing that main event draft with Ron Stewart over on the ship chasing channel. Thursday, bestball bash, and randomizer with Ian Hartitz, the only randomizer guest to make an appearance on all seven season of the randomizer. So we will keep that streak alive. And oh, and while I'm doing it, I just booked Friday, DFS After Dark, bestball After Dark, easy. I'm just going to be my After Dark guest. >> Let's go. >> Friday. >> And the spin's ready, baby. So will you tell me what I missed it? What did he do on Chad's stream? I heard people referencing it. He's done this a couple of times on his own stream too. He likes to play himself a little DK spin it to win it on his phone. And the slots that we do not dabble in, he likes to crank it up, crank it up, crank it up. >> But why I heard references that Chad was visibly nervous. Why was Chad nervous and not easy? >> Because he's putting hard to make a lot of money on each spin. >> Chad was nervous for EZ's bake roll. Chad, you don't have to be nervous for EZ. >> Yeah, just keep sending EZ your 39-99 a year here and he's going to be just fine. >> Yeah, you're subscriptions are going to a good cause. Terrifying Chad on streams, apparently. All right, good stuff. Anything else from you guys here? >> It's great to baseball. That's it. >> Yeah. All right, go watch John. Make sure you guys are YouTube members over on the Badgebrost channel. All of those members only streams. You guys can get access to getting that, getting those baseball streets. Nez, you said you're on a little of it heater here? >> One day, one day heater. >> One day heater. So yeah, let's go. Let's go. I actually only lost a little bit of money the night before. And then last night I actually won some money. So yeah, no, we feel we're feeling dialed. We feel great. Yeah, but John's going to hold it down and give people the shippers that they need. >> To be honest, I gave I literally drafted the winning team on stream yesterday. Three man twin stack with the one off Corbin Carroll. So anyways, the one I saw in the chat earlier here, a little free alpha for everyone on the non pay well side. That Liam Hicks in the pick him lobby for 426 or whatever at at Sutter Health looks pretty nice for a home run picked to click today. >> There you go. Good stuff, guys. And yeah, if you have, we'll see what the lobby has in store for us next week. We've enjoyed doing, you know, the weekly winners deep dive with Chad last week. If you guys miss that and are trying to get in a few weekly winners entries, I highly recommend watching that video and then also going to Chad's Twitter feed. He made that deck publicly available if you want to go through the data yourself. And yeah, let us know in the comments if there's something you'd like to see us draft. Maybe we'll have something new in the lobby, but have been enjoying digging into the side contests here on off and on the clock. We will be here every Tuesday at noon Eastern, at least for the next four so weeks. And then we are going to flip our show back to Fridays for in season. And that will be, you know, the 3 3 30 PM start time and we will get you guys ready for every one of those main slates on underdog and get the pickups rolling again. Good times, good times. All right, guys, appreciate everybody hanging out in the chat. We will see you next time on off and on the clock. Peace.