Speaker 1Hey folks, welcome to this episode of the Science of Scaling podcast. My name is Mark Roberge, your host. Today we've got a gem. We've got Dino DiMarino, the CRO at Snyk. It's surprising to people who pursue PLG plays, product-led growth plays, that layering a sales organization, a go-to-market organization onto it is a critical success. I can't think of a single PLG unicorn that never had to do that. And Dino has deep experience in it. He's going to drop knowledge on that process, how it's different from sales-led growth, how you hire, pay, run the methodology, align the organizations differently, so you get it right. Let's go on to the episode.
Speaker 2Welcome to the show, Dino. Hey, thanks for having me, Mark. Appreciate it. Yeah.
Speaker 1So. Um, gosh, Snyk's been an amazing ride and we want to unpack that. It's a pleasure to kind of get into your head on layering go-to-market on top of this PLG funnel. However, before we even do that, how do you even define PLG? You know, like it's, it's like we used to call it freemium and you got free trials. You got like, there's a lot of different aspects to it. Like how, how did you, how do you think about that? And how did you define that at Snyk, which is probably a pretty important foundation as you came in?
Speaker 2Yeah, I think that's a very good first step for any founder or organization to think through is before you start using the three-letter acronym, what does it mean to you? And there's a ton of, a ton of research that founders and go-to-market leaders can do to get their definition relative to the product they're launching. But for us, freemium is certainly one derivative of PLG, right? But a lot of our PLG has been focused on capturing the mind share of application security professionals and developers with our freemium products, and then try and provide an experience that allows them to at some level of small to medium scale, acquire the technology. That's certainly part of our PLG definition. Other parts of it though, that we're exploring, you know, live around the indirect benefit of having your technology out in the wild, both for what I'll call personal use cases. So there's a lot of folks in the development community that, that code on, on their own. They want to sort of experiment with different technologies. So they're using Snyk more PLG friendly. And I think as you go to maybe software or the financial services side of the house and the like, there hasn't maybe been the exploration or determination as to how easy or hard PLG will be, but certainly the likes of Atlassian, Datadog, GitHub, GitLab, they've all proven that there's a lot of selling that can be done with the product. But I do think that you can only take it so far from a scale standpoint, and you can only unlock so much of your TAM without bringing sort of more, a more form sales and marketing strategy around it. But I'm, I'm certainly very pro PLG from my experiences at Snyk.
Speaker 1Hey folks, just Mark here. I want to point this out. You know, Dino said something along the lines of like, explore it, PLG, and it's really important to think about this. I mean, right now we're trying to figure out is PLG applicable to our category? How do we determine that? When in doubt, do it for two reasons. Number one, if you don't, and you scale to a million, 5 million, 10 million, it's so hard to go back to it. It's so hard to be sales led growth and then go back. And then go back to PLG. That's why PLG is exciting is because it's such a descriptive model. It's really hard to be selling something for like 10, 20, 30,000 a year, and then start selling it for 50 for, you know, and start as free and carve out enough value to be free. So, you know, just, it's kind of a one shot thing. And if you're not sure, try it. The other piece is if you're wrong, which I've had to do with some of our investments, then it's like, okay, let's, let's switch to sales led. And guess what? You're left with a really easy to adopt product and a pretty big demand gen funnel. So it's like when in doubt, give it a shot. All right, let's get back to Dino. And we have to talk about layering the sales org in, which is quite a science and critical to not ruin the magic, but bring in this new function, which even just to start, like when I'd speak to first time founders, I was like, oh, my God, this is going to be the best thing I've ever done. founders who are pursuing PLG, they almost think that if they have to add sales, they failed. They're like, if I have to add sales- We're like this crutch now. Right. I'm not good at product. And yet you and I were chatting and we're like, dude, can you think of any PLG unicorn that didn't eventually put sales in? So this isn't a failure. I don't know. Can you explain that to the product founder? Like why is it necessary as a synergy to create the true company?
Speaker 2So I think it's really explaining that the concentric circles of your TAM just open up. If you have the right go-to-market and marketing, I mean, those two have to be in lock and step. It's not one of the other leaders and people, which I got the pleasure of joining and inheriting on my team and within the marketing team, people that really understood it. They were educating me on PLG and us brainstorming on ways to unlock it as we went forward. But admittedly, when I joined, there was already an absolute understanding within Snyk that go-to-market was maybe 49% of the product experience of the product itself was 51. And in many cases, I think there are deals we went explicitly due to the people that are in front of our customers. So when you move into the enterprise, the founders will start to see that there is this huge element that relationships, you know, doing what you say you're going to do. I mean, people that can guide you on the more sophisticated use cases along the way are really important to unlocking the product value. I think some of the folks in our marketing organization did a great job of educating me on the indirect and direct sort of benefits of PLG. So the direct benefit is, you know, what all the venture capitalists want to hear, which is fair. They want efficiency, you know, rapid time to scale, great product telemetry. So there was a reaffirmation of these, I'll call it principles of PLG that they absolutely retaught me or educated me further. I think it was the indirect elements of it, like all the benefits, the as we looked at our demand funnel, which even to this day, I think every company struggles with how do I actually attribute value to a freemium user that's using Snyk at home for their own sort of personal use case that then is a developer of Bank of America or an app sec person of Bank of America, and they all of a sudden buy Snyk. So I think we are struggling in a lot. How can we sort of correlate that information? But we see it at scale and it's anecdotally, but when we talk to customers, our prospects in that I've been involved with, with our enterprise sales reps and leaders that there has been an absolute benefit by this, this halo effect that the marketing team was educating me on.
Speaker 1Hey folks, just Mark here, this indirect value that Dino's talking about, I think is really important. We don't think about it that much, you know, in a way the marketing team saying like, there's some intangibles here, like fine, like some, some person downloaded our product and started working with it in a garage, project. They just so happened to be a senior technical developer at Bank of America. And that leads us into that account. Like how do we measure that? I kind of say that as like brand, you know what I mean? Like how do you measure the value of having that billboard there running the commercials for a month? Like it's just, it's just hard to do. And it's just that brand that's being built up. And the reason why that's important is in, in our world of software and tech, it's hard to develop sustainable moats. It's hard to develop moats that are not easy for the competition to copy. And that's one of the nice things I like about PLG is like, when you spend years like Dino and Sneak did and getting this PLG motion, right. Getting folks to know about it and download it, some level of virality, the handoffs to the sales, like 10 engineers don't quit Google and just copy that. That is not easy. And I think that's one of the things that I like about PLG is that it's years of domain expertise. That's a sustainable moat. And let's just make sure we appreciate that. All right. Let's get back to Dino.
Speaker 2If you have sales reps and leaders that don't embrace PLG in the founder's defense, like it won't work. Like if you said that, like, what is the one thing that you have to ensure as a founder you have, it's, it's a leader who's at least curious enough to get as knowledgeable as he or she can around product growth, what it means, what are the levers? Because if you have somebody that's sort of a stubborn top-down thinker, uh, they'll never be able to unlock all the potential possibilities because for each company, it's going to be a bit different.
Speaker 1That's a death trap for many PLG companies. We've both seen it where, whether it's the board or the CEO or the founders, like sales is sales, but folks who've been there like yourself recognize that there's a pretty stark difference between the playbook. Can you help us understand that playbook?
Speaker 2Yeah, I'll do my best. I think you got to hire people that know or want to know about it. Secondly, instrumentation matters and all of us are data junkies, but strive for perfection and gleaning as much useful data as you can to make good decisioning and know that in an ideal world, these two things make the company stronger. But there is to your point at a playbook level, it's got to be taught to the organization. Like our, our founder and CEO will on a quarterly basis, we talk just about sort of the evolution of our PLG motion, what we're seeing trends. So it's this constant education. And then the playbooks, sort of right off that get pretty interesting and specific on account-based marketing. Cause you think ABM very top down, but if you have been rich, privileged PLG data for your SDR team. Like now you can curate a much better experience for the customer where they're not just getting bombarded with inbound email. You have context of maybe what they're using in the product or just by nature of the fact that we know there's some freemium users in the organization and we want to have, you know, a collaborative discussion around some group sessions that we run. We run these stranger danger sessions, capture the flag. So you're able to curate an experience for the customer that isn't just like, let me give you a demo and try to sell you the product because you have this sort of bottom-up telemetry. So it makes everybody better if you use it.
Speaker 1People who study these, I think definitely see that moment that you're talking about where it's like, if I can generalize, the R&D organization gets this PLG funnel to like, whatever, 5,000, 10,000, 50,000 weekly active users. So there's this thing in there. And it's ice cream Sunday day for like the first rep that gets to go in there. It's like, oh my gosh, this is amazing. And you see different things. Like back in the day, they used to like wait like a week for the user to like adopt and like the product. And all of a sudden it gets to a point where it's like the minute someone hits like download, they get a phone call. Like, is that one of the potholes? Is that bad? Do you need to avoid that? And how do you like, how do you prevent a rep from doing that?
Speaker 2Usually what you're describing comes because there's scarcity of pipeline. You know, demand isn't as amplified as it was in sort of the COVID 2020, 21 digital transformation, sort of two-year hype cycle. But we've been, to your point, very aware of not bombarding customers, at least try to make sure that experience is positive and finding different
Speaker 1routes in. When do you start building that? You know, it's like, I imagine again, the first couple came in, they were just, this is amazing. I can't keep up with the number of people who are downloading and actively using our product. I don't know if that's true. I don't know. But at some point you hit a point where it's like that those downloads don't keep up with how fast you're growing the sales org. Did you like do that from day one? Did you have that first three reps? Hey, don't get addicted to this stuff. Make sure like 20% of your time you're like cold calling. Or did you like have a different team doing that? Like when did you roll that out? That, that, that capability?
Speaker 2We're, we're like everyone else. We're not perfect. We've gone through our fits and starts on it. So it was very, very much inbound PLG, uh, focus to start and it was probably early 21 where we really started to make an investment in a more traditional outbound motion. And it was a separate, it was a Parker team, meaning the SCRs are part of sales and they, they work within what we call our sales pods, but they were doing a majority of the outbound work, uh, with our channel being a small, but important part of the demand funnel and still this PLG piece being a big, big part of it. And so what we've done since is we've tried to get some corporate, you know, we call them velocity and growth reps to, to carry a bit more of the weight of the outbound prospecting. So there's been some change in approach there. Hence why I say we've been adjusting it as we go forward, but we did have a pretty functionally aligned structure where it was, you know, the SDR sort of own that outbound motion. We had the PLG slash inbound motion sort of supplementing it where they were triaging it. They were typically higher quality ops and then getting it into the hands of the sales maker and the SC to sort of, you know, do further qualification, in many cases, pilot through to, to purchase. We started with very much an inbound centric sales organization as, as many PLG companies do and have since sort of evolved it to this balance for lack of better term.
Speaker 1Thank you for being humble that like, Hey, we don't all get these things perfectly. Like it never happens. Like what's your advice then going forward? Like, let's say you joined the board of some really hot up and coming PLG company. They're at like, you know, five, 10 million in revenue. They're definitely not at this point yet. They've got like seven reps. There's a ton of free users and like, Dino, should we, should we test in their channel like outbound and how?
Speaker 2I think outside of the standard pod structuring and sort of building an efficient sales team, where to your point, you got three or four sellers, you know, you've got too much demand, keep sort of filling that in so that you're not missing demand. Cause I know that happens to some organizations, but if you could hive off five, 10% of your capacity to say, look, there are some logical structures we should look at in go-to-market approach and, and the concept of an outbound motion is very common. Like why wouldn't we take one of our markets and start experimenting and see what the difference is both from the rep productivity, the customer interaction, what does our conversion look like? Cause you don't want to be faced with a flatline PLG pipeline. You've got a bunch of reps who are now starving out and you have no understanding what it means to augment. So I definitely would encourage people to think openly about, you know, one or two other roads to market always. They even sneak that we're looking at multiple routes as we scale beyond, you know, a hundred and fifty miles an hour, a hundred and fifty miles an hour, you know, 200 billion, hopefully to 3, 400 plus.
Speaker 1Hey folks, it's just Mark here. This is a tough one that Dino's going through. It's like, yeah, eventually we're going to hit that frontier where the demand from PLG doesn't keep up with how fast we're trying to grow revenue and how fast we're growing the sales team. So like, how do we integrate in this, this cool calling team? Like when and how, I mean, he's nailed it with the experimentation. Like we got to be in go-to-market experimenters, just like, you know, we're going to do this. We're going to do this. We're going to do this product. And the question is, when do you run that experiment? I have no doubts that your first foray into outbound is an experiment. And that's the question is, when is it? The mistake most people make is like, okay, we're doing our next year plan in. And it's like, our board wants us to get to 60 million, but our PLG funnel only gets us to 45 million. And then they're like, all right, let's just start cold calling and we'll get another 15. Nope. That's bad. By the time you're signing up to 15 million, you're going to get another 15 million. And then you're going to get another 15 million contribution from cold calling. You better have run that cold calling experiment for at least two quarters and figure it out. So that's really the only question in my mind is, you know, look at all your potential budget and do you have budget to run a cold calling experiment, which is probably two SDRs and a rep. Do you have budget to pull them out? That's the time when you should do it. And if you're first on the sales team and like you have budget, do it because you're going to need it. And if you haven't run the experiment when you need it, you're kind of cooked. And then once we get past a lead to the opportunity stage, is that different in PLG? You know, like opportunity stage in sales led, a lot of documentation, you know, do great discovery, do great disqualification, the best reps qualify out, you know, tailor your demo. And I feel like some newbies to PLG are like, oh, that's all gone. Like people already know your product, just show them the pricing page and they buy. Like is the opportunity, is stage different?
Speaker 2We have found not really. So we start to measure it once it's fully qualified, a fully qualified opportunity as the same. So it'd be almost, it's a funnel, right? So you get it to a certain stage, but many demand funnels, and even my experience at Mindcast, they did a really good job at attributing channel MSP led opportunities that were truly sourced. And it was very, very simple definition, you know, no opportunity in our CRM at the time that would count as a source stop. You had your MQL based opportunities that were attributed to some of the marketing campaigns you were driving. And then you had your MQL based opportunities that were attributed to some of the marketing campaigns you were driving. And then full blown sales outbound generated ops. But eventually when they got to the qualified op level, you would still track the close rates on each. And it's the same at sneak, like which, which sourced, which source type opportunity closes at a higher rate. But the journey for the customer has been pretty similar, rightly or wrongly in both of my, both of my experiences. And part of it is in both cases, you're usually dealing with more than one technical buyer. And by proxy, they haven't tested the product. They haven't seen it. And you're almost letting them play catch up to maybe the PLG source of the opportunity, if it is a true PLG qualified op that, that brought you to that stage. And so you might have the sales maker, if they're good, which hopefully they are, is like signaling in the buying process that, Hey, look, Mark had been one of the people that brought us here. He used our product, you know, you know, in a freemium capacity, but you've got 10 other people on a call where you're up at SC or having to do the same level of discovery, qualification, demonstration of value. And then through the closure.
Speaker 1Yeah. Big pothole alert, big pothole alert here. People think that the sales motion is different. They think it's like, yeah, I mean, all the stuff I learned in like spin selling and Sandler and like discovery qualification needs identification. I don't need to do that. They already know what the product is. They've already educated themselves. As Dino's point out, it's not never seen it. I think like we overestimate how much the end user knows about our product. They stumbled across enough of it to get like one of their point use cases to go, but they don't understand the full premise. And more importantly, the end user and the buyer often different, right? And so once we get to that opportunity stage, the sales process looks very similar. You know, Pete Caputo, one of our early sales leaders at HubSpot, slow things down to speed them up. And that's what we have here. Is we can't just assume that they're all the way at the finish line. Like we'd seen a sales like growth just because they've adopted the product. And we have to model very similar sales methodologies as we see in that traditional environment.
Speaker 2So we have not found that buying process once you hit that stage to be markedly different.
Speaker 1And so as you think about org structure, does that mean like, you know, we've got obviously demand gen come from different places. We may have an SDR team, but we don't have an SDR team. That is focused on cold calling and an SDR team that's focused on setting appointments with the peak the product qualified leads like the users but does that mean that once we've set an appointment that an appointment from a cold call versus an appointment from a user from the plg funnel that acts the same so we shouldn't specialize the account executive we should we should kind of just send appointments to them someone recalled we've tried both okay and which does both and i'd say
Speaker 2that i'd say that um we don't have a great answer as to which which because there's so many other factors like we've if you think about you know when i joined in sort of the mid 2021 time frame to today the economy has changed how we focus on our segments has changed but we did for our smb and mid-market business we did have sort of the concept of inbound and outbound uh reps so exactly as you're describing and part of it was born out of this experimentation of like hey we can't just be inbound focused we need to have this outbound muscle part of it was born out of the sales capacity how quickly can we get it to ramp so i'd say that we did it for maybe different reasons than it being a completely bespoke or different buying process for an inbound versus outbound lead or pql versus an outbound lead yeah i think it's something you know i know we have really good data actually something we should probably look at to see was there a market difference between both but our motive for doing it was maybe different than the journey is is completely different for these inbound pqls versus outbound leads how about
Speaker 1the rep themselves when you think about like mime cast and other sales led growth do you have a different hiring profile are you trying to find people who have a plg experience does that matter is there is there i just like the differences in product right obviously sneaks pretty pretty technical buyer i get that but if you have apples to apples for everything else you know like price target customer you know the buyer type one sales lead one's plg does that change who you're trying
Speaker 2to hire i think uh only if curiosity and and a desire to understand plg is not there so if there's a sales rep um even in enterprise that that doesn't have some like interest and curiosity and in the interview process with our leadership isn't saying like hey i don't know anything about this but i i think it could unlock my business like i hear those signals from somebody that i otherwise think is super competent um you know is a hard-working caring aggressive person that's going to really help drive our business and success for our customers and they don't know about it but they want to know about it to me that's all right i think you have somebody that truly has this one playbook mentality which you see from time to time although admittedly it's usually more on the enterprise seller side where you've got people that are somewhat stubborn in how they want to attack things because they've had success then you know that might be a reason to look elsewhere in a company that really values that plg motion i find with with smb sellers so many of them come from either our sdr team or you know the local community plg is becoming more and more top of mind most of them have like at least a 101 level understanding of it and really are just sponges to want to get educated more on how it becomes a lever for their business and most of them also still you know although we none of us love it they still sort of enjoy the the celebration of sort of that you know taking an outbound prospect to a qualified
Speaker 1meeting hey folks mark here yeah i'm i'm also feeling dino's pain here i'm like do we specialize of that do we specialize the salesperson on outbound and i have a different salesperson on leads that are coming from plg and it's a tough one but i'm seeing a pattern here and this is the pattern that i'm seeing is in the beginning you do specialize the reason why you do it is i'm an account executive i got one appointment from plg where there's five users and i'm talking to the decision maker and we already have five people at the company using our product i get a another appointment that's a cold call from an sdr the first appointment is way easier just is and so i'm kind of going to blow off the cold call appointment and that way we're never going to figure out cold calling so reps will always find the least path of resistance to get to their goal and if we're giving them both inbound or pql product qualified lead generate appointments and cold they're never going to figure out the cold so to figure out this channel we have to specialize the outbound salespeople people in addition to the sdrs however as we progress and i think this is where dino's confusion came about as the brand develops that difference between the cold appointment and the plg appointment it becomes similar because everyone's hard to sneak and even the cold appointment they go yeah we've tried you yeah that kind of stuff so so as you grow the the complexities of that specialization are no longer justified and that account executive team um can work any appointments that's the pattern i'm seeing i hope that you see it in york too let's get back to dino
Speaker 2part of the pivot to to why we move from this inbound outbound smb uh growth motion to now having just a more traditional uh smb rep on the hunter side sort of really trying to get us into new accounts because they still do some of their old cold calling and the ones that that have been successful were able to sort of do both frankly but those are those are some things we look
Speaker 1forward to i do want to finish up dino with if i can fairly look at the evolution of a plg company through three acts of acquiring customers where act one is typically that like human lists you know like we talked about like you get you know you get five thousand ten thousand fifty thousand week active users your product engineering team gets fancy about these like five to ten dollar a month trip wires and suddenly there's some revenue coming in and then the thing that we you've done so nicely to pack was like okay we can actually do way more by introducing a sales team and typically that is like an inside sales team you know we're paying them whatever 120 180 to 200 000 a year they're bringing in like whatever 600 800 000 of ar their customers are kind of mid-market customers like you talking about like 20 30 40 k that's act 2. and that drives us a lot and then there's this act 3 which is like wow you know our brand is big enough our product is stable enough we've had enough funding that we can do things like socks compliance and geo redundancy and all this stuff we can sell million dollar deals to fortune 100 but we can't do it through our these act one and act two we have to new we have to do a new a third act and that's something you've had a big part in and we see in almost all the big unicorns that have gone to five tens of billions of dollars in in market cap they've introduced this third act so can you tell us about that and what's what's different about that
Speaker 2third act yeah that was being again experimented incubated you can see there's a theme here um on how sneak thinks of things not just in go to market but across the company when i started but it was one of the things when when i got here like we we believed that i think we were right that if you can get the fortune 100 banks specifically when you're talking this is where it's very much dependent on what you are selling so in our case developer security technology so developers are the users appsec ultimately the cso is the buyer if you can get cso's and banks to validate that you have made a market difference in their security posture and the developers hate you less or love you as we like to joke um you're gonna you're gonna have lightning in a bottle as it relates to enterprise relevance and so the thinking was let's let's go and try to capture a few banks where we think there's enough willingness to engage with us because if you can get a morgan stanley a city a barclays to become a customer it validates that to your point your security ready not only your internal controls like you nailed it sock to type two even as you think about fedramp all these things help to amplify your brand as an organization that gets risk and security but it also then just opens up the rest of your tam that in the case of sneak we hadn't really exploited
Speaker 1hey folks mark here this act three is so critical i mean seven years in oftentimes you talk to these plg unicorns they're like yeah our enterprise business is like most of our business it's growing faster than everything else it's just an important act to get right and dino fortunately has a lot of experience in hiring these enterprise reps i do find them to be quite different when i asked people like dino those are the two things that are different than a mid-market rep is one understanding the political dynamics of an organization that's usually not necessary for a mid-market salesperson because there's not as many decision makers or influencers and related to that how they develop champions how they truly develop champions great enterprise sales people will say the number one driver on whether i get a deal is not my product not my technology not my references not my company brand it's the strength of my champion is my champion stronger than the competition if you look at like lots of people use bent as a qualifying matrix in the mid-market budget authority need timing they evolve to medic in the enterprise metrics economic buyer decision maker decision process identify pain and champion it's in there and some people put a second c in medic with two c's and it's the competitor's champion that's why it's so important and a big difference between those those big strategic account sellers in the mid-market is their ability to develop that champion all right let's get back to dino sort
Speaker 2of two ways that the cro ceo and founders should talk about it do we shoot for the moon or do we sort of take a stair step approach. Admittedly at Mindcast, we were much more iterative as we moved into the enterprise. Whereas Sneak, I think we had the luxury of building a modern platform that could scale. We had enough of the certifications where we shot for the moon on that segment, especially in banking and had some good initial success. And now I have dozens of seven bigger customers giving us that sort of brand, I'll call it brand in the enterprise that maybe we didn't have a few years ago.
Speaker 1Do you know, because you have so much experience here, you kind of brushed over like all these unique aspects of what an enterprise rep needs to do to close a million dollar deal because you have so much experience. But can you just give us like your top two, like picture that mid-market rep that you see the potential, like you can become a million dollar closer. What are like the top two or three skills that you have to teach them that they didn't develop in the mid-market?
Speaker 2Yeah, I think there's a healthy level of paranoia that your good enterprise reps have. We have been fortunate with the technology we have, the brand we have, but there's still. Lots of people that we have to market to in these large enterprises that are skeptics. So you need somebody that's paranoid, but humble enough to know how to build sort of bridges with some of the skeptics, you know, in certain sales models, you call them enemies versus champions. I think you need somebody that's got a bit of a vision like a founder does as to how you take this initial opportunity and how do you walk it through? What are all the various stakeholders? In some cases, you're figuring out as you go. But as we understood sort of the playbook of where our champions and our detractors might be, we're going to have to figure out how to build bridges with some of the might be in a particular opportunity the good sellers knew how to navigate that and they still you know they knew how to build relationships and get on speed dial with these both the technical and business executives that they were dealing with like at the end of the day the deals that close like that you need to have several people that will sort of take your call throughout the entire buy cycle and as I mentioned you need that an organization you know legal commercial finance everybody that'll make the negotiation of those deals as painless as they can be and they're never easy at a rep who's sort of seen that it doesn't get panicked when you know you throw out an eight million dollar number tcv number in front of the customer they throw up all over it knowing that all right we're probably gonna land it for doesn't mean that the deal's over and I think that's something just that comes with mileage like a lot of the mid-market reps that work for us today will be cro's in the next 5 10 15 years at some of this is just you know at bats and so having that enterprise seller that doesn't get you know frazzled by it rattled by you know some pretty tough objectives I think has been you know a big part of our success
Speaker 1well thank you for all this you know you know plg has been around for some time I'm of the opinion that we're still in the early innings and that the disruptive potential of this really exciting go-to-market model and broader business model we have a lot ahead of us you and I have both realized that we can't think of a unicorn that didn't run the playbook that you outlined for us of layering on go-to-market and not ruining the magic that got us to where we are today so thank you for helping us understand that congrats on your journey and we appreciate your dropping knowledge with us today
Speaker 2yeah I appreciate the opportunity to share I always have to do it but thanks mark for having me
Speaker 1you you I love the feedback also check out stage two capital we're the first VC firm running back by over 500 CROs CMOs CCOs so if you're an entrepreneur looking to see more of us please subscribe to our channel and hit the bell icon so you don't miss any of our new videos and we'll see you next time bye bye I love the feedback also check out stage two capital we're the first VC firm running back by over 500 CROs CCOs CCOs CCOs CCOs and we appreciate your talking to us today check out stage two capital we're the first VC firm running back by over 500 CROs CCOs CCOs CCOs CCOs CCOs CCOs and we appreciate your talking to us today all right that's it for today I'm mark all right that's it for today I'm mark all right that's it for today I'm mark ribbier see you next week
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