How the Rolex Submariner Became a Legend: History, Myths & Mastery

What Rolex made specifically to be four divers for scientists for the militaries is exactly the same thing Do you're able to get as a regular human being? Yes, before the space race There was this discovery of the underwater world with that world becoming exciting you get the interest in the watches that can achieve there You know, I remember going up and it was living that die and Living that guy was always on I mean it was always on there was nothing else actually that they had on television I didn't think of the point of a submarine just have a gold one because it shows that you're up I mean, it shows that you're somebody who who kind of thinks they want to be a rough and dark And I can't bear shame that they're going to be the money as well Welcome to the luxury dispatch the podcast that reveals the refined in the rare the stories people and items that make up the luxury industry Now there are some topics into which we need to spend a good hour diving deeply and it's most appropriate Today that we start those deep dives with a deep dive watch It's the Rolex of Mariner and I'm very lucky to have Mr Nick Falks here today to help us along Nick has been somebody that I not only used to work for but considered to be a great friend, mentor and the first person that anyone thinks of when we talk about watches So Nick, it's so great It's a honor to be in your grotto here, it's fantastic It's like Christmas, isn't it? You've got enough of my bookstay, then you got one, two of them I should have written 40 of them Well, you say that And we have the third which is the reason that we're here today. Yes, which is your book on the Rolex The matter, actually, well it so happens that you've written a book on the Rolex of Mariner It actually makes you the perfect person to talk about the history of the Rolex I'm very thankful there be careful there. There will be people who disagree with you on that You got quite a lot of stick from the sort of We come to that, we come to that, we come to that story episode later Let us build me up first and take me down deeper Good point And when we were sort of conceiving of the podcast and I thought what would be the kind of watch topic that might gain sort of the most people's interest whether they're big watch collectors or they're just new to it And I thought the Rolex and Mariner was a really great place to start But you know what it looks like? It's traction Yes, traction Yes So the Rolex and Mariner Yeah So you just remember about it Let's take everybody back to Rolex as a kind of an entity Beginning with I think you talk about it as sort of fairies or people in the ear of Hans Phil's store Yes, I mean the story is Will Storff himself was born in Germany, went to work a bit in Switzerland But realized that in 1905 the center of the world was London The empire covered as you know More of the globe than we really get to mention these days And there was a he wanted to work and access the British Imperial market So he came to London set up with a man called Davis And they had Will Storff and Davis from 1905 and in 1908 he was on the bus The horse to own bus in the middle of London when I when I've spryt or a fairy I forget what he calls it Fluttered down in whispered in his ear the word Rolex Which was to be the brand name now as brand origin stories go It's max of very similar to and accuracy and total total truthfulness Yes So that's how he says it because I mean the great thing is it means It means nothing or everything in the same language Yes It is a sort of Esperantist Linger Franca that is known the world over it's not named after anybody It's It's in a way it's sort of what he wanted was something that was Maybe he didn't realize it at the time But something that was not anchored to a personality It was it was it was it was the brand itself it was Rolex It wasn't Will Storff and Davis It wasn't it was it was deliberately Like Omega was a little later it wasn't attached to a single person It was yeah you know because otherwise you got patek and philippe You've got vational constant town you've got all these other brands Oh, Dima P.G They always have the names of the founders there What you've got here is a brand in the modern sense of the word A brand in the 20th century the word that we like Vimko or Jazdop or you know or drop out You know what I mean it's something it means It's tech it's catchy it's short It looks good on a watch dial And You know you go and ask for a Rolex and everybody everyone knows what you want Yes, and he's sort of the first luxury brand that anybody here's off growing up Yes, I think it is Oddly enough the more you look at it the less luxurious it becomes and the more it becomes about Quality manufacturer. It's it's very interesting you can you can go right round and then you always come back to Rolex All the people it will you know watch I mean they're one we're no one did one of those watch for pet shops in London where they can do everything Yep, all the guys are wearing Rolexes because it's It's just the thing. It's just it works. It never fails to it never fails to proceed as they say about my old Bentley It never fails to start It can take a hell of a lot of punishment. It looks great and it is just a brilliant thing because within that you have those Decades and decades of Rolex history just sort of crystallized in this one object on the wrist Yes, and it's really interesting because I had a discussion once with a Earth he was a fashion director or he he worked for another magazine and he Try to make the case that Rolex wasn't luxury and so he sort of felt like He could kind of be almost snobbish about it. I think almost that's part of the magic of Rolex is that it feels both luxury and also accessible And so people can sort of try and make themselves out to be I don't know It was super sillious about the luxury industry by saying I don't know Rolex isn't luxury whereas actually it's become the sort of It's interesting. It's top of the pyramid. It's the top of a pyramid. Yeah, it depends But there are lots of different periods. Yeah, just to complicate this metaphor Some we can also do the value And let's do let's do let's do sort of Anglo-Saxon burial mounds or Or the tomb of muzzleless at halicon assets perhaps but let us stick with these pyramids for the time being So good. There's a pyramid of relatively excessively priced well-made No nonsense watches Rolex is absolutely. Yeah flying above that pyramid in the spacecraft Will then bring the aliens down through the sort of to their to their originally built it's Stargate. Yes, it's Stargate So it's a brilliant brilliant thing. So I mean, it's absolutely in terms of It's bulletproof physically and also figuratively which is where the term oyster comes from yes, the term oyster That's a pretty story about how he sort of You know was was eating oysters one day and all of this There's so much there's so much folklore around it Basically what they did was they in the 20s they had the oyster case And that was to keep it wasn't to keep water out so much as dust dust was the thing that he really worried about right because when these Bit of dust get into the movement They they mix with the oils and create this abrasive paste So essentially what you're getting is something that degrades the parts not not not so that they don't work But just so they're not sufficiently sufficiently accurate and precise his big thing was precision I mean a couple of days for the first of a war brigade he got his first Classes um, it's difficult from cue for example, which was a super big deal to him because precision was what he was about Yeah, it wasn't so much water proofness. It wasn't so much that you could take it down to the bottom of the ocean or anything like that It was about Keeping the integrity of the movement as I so mean you didn't want this kind of dust Merading through your merading for your watch movement water was water was also bad But it wasn't as much an everyday and everyday occurrence as dust at what point did if he you saying that Precision was his was his you know main motivator Where did design storytelling come into it by giving it sort of various names like oyster or of course some marinara and so forth I mean how did that become the kind of progression of Rolex? Well, I mean Rolex is in language of for example, you've got things like roller saw which is Role which is which is another word for stealing gold or by color the story I've been given there is that it would have been too Had they called it gold they would have to they would have to hold mark every bit and they didn't want to do that I mean, I don't know if that's true or not. There's so many there's so many sort of stories Another one is that the date bubble that you see on my Landweiler here was when he was in the bath and the drop of water fell for fell on his watch dial and he saw I can see the date clearly now. I mean, you know And then another one saying that Rolex means rolling export. I mean, there's just endless endless amounts of crap that you it's very hard to tell I mean, there's also this there's also supposed to be a special a special GMT master that Was given only to people on the desks at pan am now really this is this is the holy grave of collectors But in Rolex archives we have yet to find and not saying it doesn't exist But we've yet to find any substantial evidence of that okay, did little detail There was a day date that was supposed to be all commissioned by the char of Iran again Very difficult in the archives and not saying we not saying it's not there because these archives are immense yes So definitely sort of that like I to the Vatican is bigger than that. It's bigger than that And the Vatican timing used to be done by patek Philippe of course gods watchmaker. Oh, of course Okay, well, let's fixate on the Samariner for now then so when did that come about and what was the impetus behind it? Okay Essentially you can divide the Submariner into into into three basic periods again I'm sure the purists would disagree, but you would basically have a Submariner Which is the one that we talked about and the one that everybody knows you have the C Dweller Which was introduced in 1967 at around about the same time as Saturation diving I always used to love the C Dweller because it was I mean this is going back to when I was a kid in the 80s, you know Digital watches were everything and this was an analog watch that looked great and it was just I just loved the fact that you could go down to a depth that would kill me And and and this watch was doing a fine and then beyond that more recently they've gone to the Deep sea which is Absolutely astonishing stuff That they now they now have a watch that you could wear to the bottom of the Mariana's trench to the challenger deep as a retail product Right, which is extraordinary. They made the first one really first for Cameron, he went back down in 2012, I think it was to the chance to. - It sort of straps it to the side, didn't he? - Yes, yes, yes. I mean, they do that, they have to have it outside to show that it's not going to work. - So sure, yeah, yeah. - And so you've got really those three kind of ages, if you like, of Rolex, Sermarina. I'll go back a little bit to the '30s. You get the, you get the, you've got the Oyster case, and then you've got the self-winding movement, which means that you don't have to you don't have to open your watch to wind it. You don't have to unscrew the crown or anything like that. So you've got minimal ingress of any crap, whether it's water, dust or whatever. It's 45, everybody's thinking, because now Vilstow's in his late middle ages, is entering his third act, and he was a big disruptor in the period of the '20s and '30s. He was the one who put the Rolex name on dials, because before then, most wristwatches sold in shops or either plane or had the name of the jeweler on them. So they were made, especially when you were manufacturing at some quantities as Rolex was. - Especially there, because, yes, I was, when we were recently hosted by Rolex at Wimbledon very, very kindly by them. And I said next to Jensman, who used to run Ernest Jones. - Yes. - And he was saying, basically, exactly that, is that Rolex had not, didn't really have much presence from a shop point of view in the UK. It all kind of went through the jewels. - Yes, but also the jeweler signed the watches. So basically, it could have been anybody making them. They just bought Rolex and we've adged it themselves. So what he started doing was putting one in every six. He started putting Rolex on the dial, and then he got it up. And then he, and then he, of course, went full-time on it. But even then, you didn't have the, the modulonarity that you have, you didn't have the considered design story. You had a variety. So it was just, it was just a Rolex. But I mean, the type could be over the top under the, under the, under the, under the, under the, I mean, it was, it was all over, it was all over the shop. But it was identifiably a rake. But that was all it was. And then you had Mercedes lights, this cross-channel swimmer who swam the channel. And then there were three other women who said that they claimed, two other women who claimed that they'd done it in the same time as well. And she had to go and do a validations swim to prove that she had actually done it. And she didn't quite get there. But she was wearing the Rolex around her neck. And that was when she was hauled out, it was still working. And this was, this was the, this was the proof of the oyster. Right. Yeah. And then there was an actress called Evelyn Lane, who shoved her hand in a fishbowl. And that was another image that basically this is the, this is the water proofness. So you got the water proofness. You've got then the Rolex branding. But the Rolex visual branding by which I mean the visual identity only really happened in 1945 towards the end of 1945 when he launched the watch you're wearing now. Yeah. This is his big, this is the end of the post-war period with the watch that we all now know as the date just that is for me the quintessential Rolex. That's what everybody identifies as the, as the key Rolex. It's that you look at and minus the date bubble came a few, a few years later, but the, the layout of that watch is the same as the one worn by Arden. Now the same as the one worn by Eisenhower. Yeah. It's, it's recognizable as what it is. It is a sort of omnivatch as well. The sense that it could be worn with everything. Yes. I mean, we were, we were talking earlier with one of your, one of your directors about this and he was asking what a good watch to start with would be. And it's a fantastic thing. Yes. I agree. I've got more of those and I get to mention because I find them sensitive to give and it's also the most personal ones. The number of dial variations you can get today and sizes and things like that is makes that oddly enough even though it's the most widely known. So the most personal one. Yes. That's interesting because there's nothing personal about the sub. I mean, it just, it just comes to you as it is. I mean, of course, there are individual, you know, the, I mean, I can, I can hear the sub nerds getting kind of getting angry, it's already, but before I'm tired and feathered, of course. And then, but it's, it's, it's basically to take it or leave a proposition. It's like you're going to a shop and you ask for a powertrain and they say, "When you want the M Blue, White or Pink, so can we, could we accessorize that?" No, they just say it's a fucking powertrain. Then in the 50s, you forgot, you forgot that the world was still, but it wasn't totally explored. I mean, still have people had to get to Everest. They had supplied the watch list to the first expedition ever to fly over Everest, right, which was pretty impressive. And those days thought they couldn't even fly over it. So they still don't go to the top and they still don't go to the bottom of the ocean. But there were new ways of doing things like, for example, Jack Cousteau had developed the Aqualong and this opened up the Undersea World. And there's a man called Dmitri Rebikoff who was also a big part of the Rotaleck story who took colour photography underwater. So instead of these grainy, sort of crappy black and white photographs of the Undersea World, you had, you suddenly saw how amazing this world was. And something like three quarters of the planet is covered with water. And the best it'd been able to do was either you go down in a sort of bathosphere or you go in one of those ancient Jules Verne types contract. With the pipe at the top of the tree. Or your breath. With the Aqualong, you were sort of flapping about like a little fish. So that was a big deal. As Jack Cousteau, he wore us a man, didn't he? No, he didn't. I mean, he might have done. But again, in the Relics archives, what we've got, RP January, who was the marketing director of Relics, was a genius, was constantly chasing him around the South of France trying to get him to ring. He was a doctor, a doctor, a fructose who was a, an associate of Estuariate. He got Rebikoff was a big wearer. Rebikoff actually was very integral in the development of the Submarine. Initially, for example, he, the white dot on the top of the bezel there. Yeah. He, he should be white, not red or something like that. So he was, he was, he was a very practical diver who was, it was very close with January and who tested the watch and who made suggestions as to how it could be enhanced or what was required from the wearer. Do you think he did design it with, uh, truths, sort of practical, sort of military and exploration, activity in mind, or do you think he saw it, saw an opportunity to make a kind of consumer led watch? This was, this was the genius of it. I mean, January was hired by Rolex in 1945. And he was a sort of young, whiz kid marketer. Will stuff by this time was in his, I don't know, he tried to work this out early 60s. And, uh, he bought this young hot shot on and he and, and actually, January was a very keen scuba diver himself. Yeah. So he felt that there would be a market for this because it was a piece of diving equipment that didn't exist. And this new sport was coming on. So it was a bit of a gamble because it wasn't seen wristwatches were thin small things on the wrist. And so, you know, I think the pictures of the 30s and 40s, men's watches are like the size of a Cartier tank, which is, if you, if anybody watching this remembers what a posted stamp is, it's about the size of one of those. And so these things were helping broods on the wrist at 30 millimeters, which today is regarded as standard man size. It was like, it was like wearing a sort of, I know, an astray on your wrist or something. Yeah. So I think what he did was he was basically interested in projecting the sort of fortress like quality of the watch into the into the future. And this seemed a good challenge for him. So the thing the thing that really defines a Rolex is of this period in the 50s was the most exciting period in terms of dynamic development of the tool watch brand or what they call it they call it professional watches but sports watch tool watch professional watch was going to be more or less than was the was the was the moving bezel. Because you use that on the on that watch to on the watch on the table there to time decompression stops your time underwater this kind of thing. Yeah. That was the idea with the GMT master, which again made use of this rotating bezel tell the time in two zones. Yeah. And on the explorer to which is comes a little later that was a fixed bezel. But there was also. They also use the bezel on the turner graph, which was supposed to be the hit watch of 1953 because the turner graph used the calibrated moving bezel to enable you to do all sorts of abs. Abs sort of things like time the rate of production cigarette factory was one of the examples quoted sighted by them as being showing obviously if you. But obviously it seemed that the it seemed that the number of divers was greater number of cigarette company managers. Yes. So it sort of took off. But it took off as very very small numbers. I mean my favorite of reference. I think I'm probably wrong but it's just 62 00 which was made in for a very short period of months or 50s. And it was about 300 watches. So these were not big production numbers. And I mean they it changed. There were so many different references through the through the 50s. I think there were seven or eight different references. Because they were trying it out there trying out sometimes sometimes they had Arabic numerals at three. And they didn't have a date obviously because when you're underwater you don't need the date you just need to know the time. Yes. And you know you want the least the less information the better beyond what you supply. Yeah. Yeah. And crown garden things that was that always there. No. So again so to as the references went on they're just tweaking. Yes. This is what is so strong about Rolex about its survival is that it when when Will Stoff died he had to set in he's in he enacted a set of statutes that basically ran the company on autopilot. And he's on the grave he I mean I've read the statutes. Not the most interesting document ever going to read but it it shows you in detail how he even down to the formulation of the board and the type of people that should be on it. He stipulated whatever what what should happen so in Switzerland being accounted for like five. following instructions, it was, that is that, that has many, as much as anything else that has just preserved the watch in its current state and it has started to the top of our pyramid. Yes. And so, okay, well, let's talk about then the idea of the watch being a sort of an item of the playboy. So obviously diving and things like that would have been, along with Polo or of course our favourite backgammon. Yeah. A sort of an exhibition of the the wealthy, especially in the 50s and 60s, you know, people would sort of having fun new activities or even flying at some point would have been one and driving cars and this is in the pre-war period. You know, they all had their activities and diving in the post-war period would have been that, I assume. Diving was certainly that. And certainly in France, I mean, it was sort of, it was scientists or sort of daredevil sort of upper class people as we would call them, posh people, or aristocrats on the ability or even even the Bonshi-Ponshola-Bourgeoisie, the nobeless de pay or whatever. Anyway, whatever you want to call them, they would go down to the seaside and go diving because there was no skiing in the summer. So they would, they wanted thrills, they would then go down to, and there was, because obviously the Mediterranean sea-bedded lane largely undisturbed forever. They were suddenly finding a shitload of Roman antiquities down there. So they would do is they would, they would wanted these amphorae. And there's a, I think it's, I think it's, again, I'm probably going to get crucified, but I think it's a golf sound shwan or something, sound shwan, sound shwan, anyway, there's a very deep part where you can find some of these wreck, and they would, they'd fill these amphora with air, shoot them up so that they bob to the surface, and then they would be the souvenirs in their home. So there was all this stuff, it was just a thing. Yes. One of them big things that the Rolex did in the beginning of the 60s, in the 1960s was, they went to the bottom of the Marianne stretch with the challenge of the deep, because the deepest point, it's, it's deeper than deep. It's deeper than deep. It's like it's like, it's like when when Ronald Tatt talk about going up to 11, it's like, it's like 11 deep. It's like, it's actually about 11 kilometers deep, I think. Not more deep. And it is, and they went down in something that looks like a kind of large cigar tube. And they went, and they went, I mean, terrifying. They went all the way down. And these two guys, because his father was, Jack Picard's father was August Picard, that's it. He was the original, he was the original inspired, inspired Professor Calculus in the Tintens books. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. He took, he took, he flew to the, he flew to the edge of space in a Tweed jacket, and a Norfolk jacket and a fisherman's hat. And then he came down, and then, but then, then what they did was they took you'd wet. They did it. What else was, what else was, what else was, what else was, they went to the edge of the atmosphere and this thing, and he came down in Austria, and these peasants found him wandering around in his, in his, in his, in his, he's not for Jack. Yeah. And they, they said, cut off that half a cent. Hello, my last. So, so, so they did that. And then, and then he said, well, why don't we do what we call in a space, which is so they just, they decided to change it into something that you could go underwater with. And then again, there are, amazing, this is where the archives are brilliant, because you have the telegrams, you can see them getting deeper and deeper and deeper. They do the tyranian sea at 3,100 meters, and they're frightful excited about that. And then, then the US Navy buys this thing because it's obviously, we're in the Cold War and there's suddenly we, we, we, we've working up to the fact that the three quarters of the planet is covered by water, they're maybe valuable resources under that. Yeah. So we need, we need something that's going to get down there. And there's one guy who's got it, it's just weird guy who's got this hair sticking out of his hat. And there's the, and there's his son, Jack Picard, who unfortunately for this thing is very, very tall. And this thing was, so you, you couldn't even stand up, you couldn't even stand up in the second. And, and then they, they go to the bottom of the ocean, which is an amazing achievement. And they, they, they receive a triumph, like a Roman triumph when they get back to, they get, they get Washington is dragged, the, the, the, the vessel is dragged through the streets of Washington. They are given medals by the president. And it's now in the Smithsonian, I think. Amazing. And they, and for that, they're advised for that, they devised a watch called the Deep Sea Special, which you will have seen many times, I think. It looks like somebody has placed a transparent egg on top of a, on top of a sort of very, very, very, very heavily fortified Rolex. And this really was, I think this was the turning point for them in terms of mastery of the sea and the, and the, and the nautical watch. But also what's interesting with the Rolex, so Marin is that it, already there was a military application in the early 50s, they were testing with the Royal Navy in Loch Fine. Right. And that is where you see the sort of in vivo testing taking place in that you actually have people who are going to be wearing this thing carefully, magnetized against the electric device. I'm sure, I'm sure it's okay. I'm sure they built in all that now. But I get very paranoid. But anyway, where were it? Loch Fine. Loch Fine had been a military training facility until they invaded Europe and won the war. And then in the early 50s, in the early 50s, they were using it for diving instructions. It's very cold and it's very deep. And Rolex went up there and presented with three watches to test. And this is, this is again 51. And were they all some Mariners? They were not some Mariners yet, because the Samaritan had to exist. They were just Rolex oysters. Right. But gradually, you see, you see the back and forth, the communication between the various parties involved, whether it's the Admiralty or whether it's, you know, generate, generate the Admiralty or generate to the various diving people. You see the watch begin to, it's quite exciting looking through the, looking through the correspondent, seeing the specification emerge from these various letters back and forth. Yeah. And the US Navy picked up on the, on the Samaritan as well. Yes. Yes. Everybody did. Yes. What happened is that you have got everybody suddenly focusing on this being, because you don't forget you, you had Jack Gusto winning, winning an Academy Award, I think, for his, the, the silent world or whatever it is. So suddenly this, this became a thing. It became, it became like space travel became, and after the Sputnik, everybody was looking at the sky and, you know, everybody, the space, before the space race, there was this discovery of the underwater world that had not, I mean, it's difficult to convey now, because we're very familiar with it, and it's, it's, it's sort of normal, but bearing in mind, the personal world was very drab, and it's something that this explosion of color from the undersea world. Yeah. And I mean, I'm, you're, you're too young to remember, but even when I was a kid, Jack Gusto was still one of the most three or four recognizable people on the telly. Right. Yeah. I mean, we're a little red hat, just smiling, like, on an equaline nose, and, you know, there he was. And with that world becoming exciting, then you, you get, the interest in the watches that can achieve that. Yes. And so did this, the, the, the amount of become a kind of emblem of the jet set, though, and was that based on the fact that you had this fascination that could really only be accessed by scientists, as you were saying, you know, explorers, or the very, very rich. Yes. It's the short answer. It, because it signified that you were, but that was more in the 60s after, after the said James Bond thing it happened. Yeah. So Bond is the next thing that I'd like to talk about. Obviously, that changed an awful lot. And Bond has a habit of creating trends and people getting excited about various objects. And so this, the role that's getting involved with James Bond, how did that come about? I think he, I think he was, I would know actually Fleming, War Up Fleming War Up Fleming War, a Rolex Explorer. Right. Okay. And so, so the model is never specified in the books, but Bond occasionally says, I mean, there's one, there's one novel where he will have to replace his watch and there'll be a shop open after boxing day. He says, and should I get another Rolex? Yes, I think they're a bit bulky, but they've got those amazing, he calls them phosphorescent numerals. Yeah. So yes, he was in the books. He was definitely a Rolex wearer. And then that contingent, that contingent to the films. Yes, certainly, you know, I remember going up and it was living that die and I was always on, I mean, there was always on, there was nothing else actually that they had on television, I don't think. And the Samariner in that film, you know, with all the gadgetry, you just really stood out. But of course it does. It cuts through the rope. Yes, exactly. Yeah, it helps him escape. Do you think that, you know, for collectors today with the Samariner today, do you think the idea that this is kind of an action man's watch? Of course. Of course, I mean, I think also there's been a certain cooling off of the collector market in steel watches. And this is speaking of every of every, because I mean, there was, there was a few years ago, there was massive inflation in watch prices. Yeah. People paying five, six times list price to get hold of a watch. Insane. But this was basically focused on steel sports watches, because men like me, especially want to be rugged outdoors types, you know, I mean, like 20-mile run back with up every rest and then sort of sleeping under a sort of thin sheet and a 5,000 feet or something. I mean, yeah, all that crap. I've got a relic 1680 in 18k, which for me is the first get set, real get set, sub, because it has all the stuff you don't need. It has the date, first time in 69 you get a date bubble. Yeah. And also you get the first yellow gold sub, which is, for me, the point of a sub-marion is to have a gold one because it shows that you're up to idiots. It shows that you're somebody who kind of thinks they want to be a rough and touch of an action man. I can't bear shame that they're going to be in money as well. Yeah. It's fabulously, I mean, you don't need a gold watch to go swimming. Yeah. So you've got this, it's consciously being pitched as an everyday watch for slightly extraordinary men. Yes, I think, yes, Bond, but then also probably to other sort of interesting, sort of glamorous people at the time made things like this cool, and especially for your young men growing up, they sort of see this as a, you know, through men, as you say, through the military, through, sort of film stars or, you know, the Jets said that there is that element of cool to it. Was it the first watch that people sort of considered to be okay to wear with something like lounge suits? Do people really give a shit these days? No, no, well, I mean, you and I are looking like a couple of dinosaurs here wearing tights. No, I wear a crore as our crew, a sensibly dress. Well, they're properly dressed. I think it's a comfortable shoes, for example. This has been next show. This is exactly my point that I make, which is that if you're trying to vlog the idea of dressing sort of more subtorially to the rest of the world, don't put up too many barriers. So I think I think that those distinctions are very silly. Yeah. And I think the tenor and the taste is not made by us, Tom. It's made by the Met Gala red carpet. Of course. And there you see anything goes. Yeah. And and shows that our opinion is actually not one job. So if you're listening to this, you're in a waste of your time. So do you see the Samaritan today in its original, well, how is originally envisioned as a sort of, you know, functional tour watch? Is it a, is it a court? And what is it today? And because it's so interesting to people and it's so widely in demand that it must hold something today that is distinct from other red Xs, perhaps. It's hugely collectible because there are so many different references. Yeah. So, you know, some of them measured in hundreds. So it's, so it's got that collecting thing that you can go on a quest for it, which is nice for a collector. Relics collecting, and again, I'm probably about to be lynched, is, is, is, is not far removed from stamp collecting in certain ways. Nothing that said very, very, very opposite. In the, in the day, they said it's philotelec detail. It's philotelec cosmetic details can add tens of thousands to the value of a watch or even dare I say, six figure sums. And it strikes me as ludicrous, not paying respect, not paying enough respect to the product. The product is something, it's, it's an engineered product that is historically important, that is known the world over. And yet all you are worried about is that it's a couple of lines of type on the dial, and it signifying it's, it's this or that. It's like a penny black and a penny red. And if you've got queen victorious, profile slightly out or something like that, I'm ready to say. And put simply it's a great watch. It's a great size. I mean, small watches are fashionable at the moment. I like small watches. I got many of them. Yeah. But you know, for a size of a watch, you want to read the time and the glance and know the information that you're, you have a dive computer now anywhere on your wrist. So this is irrelevant, but still it, it should be able to do what it says it can do. And it does that admirably. Whether, I mean, what accounts, I mean, I think the whole James Bond thing is important. Yeah. The whole military thing is important. The whole fact that the planet is covered with more water than land must have a bearing on this as well. The fact that they stick around that it's an incredibly, what's that fashionable term these people who are supposed to be sustainable? That's what I'm looking for. It's a very sustainable product. You make it. And unless you actually fucking put it in a nuclear bomb or something like that, it actually will continue to function. Yeah. And it will, and it will, and if it stops, what you need to do is get some, some guy to take the back off and drip a bit of oil in and it starts against it. So I mean, it's a fantastic thing. And also it's, it's collectability resides in the constant consistency of the product. You have only in the first century, you have only three CEOs, which is remarkable. That is remarkable. Yes. If someone was going to go buy a, or go on the hunt for some mariners date, is there one in particular that you suggest they get? Is it one of the, you know, hard to find ones or is it just a standard new one of the black bezel, etc? If you want a contemporary one, I would buy the bog standard no date, simple steel. It's a great watch. I think it's, I mean, since you've got the green bezel here, for example, that's funny. That was brought out in 2003, the first green bezel. And it was the then chairman, Patrick Heininger, wanted to celebrate the anniversary. I think it was 50 years. And he came in, and normally the Swiss watch industry moves at a glacial pace, where it makes, at a pace that makes less years look sort of like he's saying so. Yeah. And he said, I want this. And it's, it's, it's bearing in mind that Barzl Fair is a matter of weeks away. And he said, I want to celebrate, we model, please, to celebrate. And all they could do was put a green bezel on it. Yeah. And that's all they could do in time is create the, the aluminum bezel insert. That's ceramic. The one you've got there, but the aluminum bezel insert. And it proved to be one, I mean, they sold, almost 200,000 of these things. Yeah. I mean, that is a nice place to start. If you want something that's a bit out of the ordinary, a bit of historical importance, not too murderously expensive, especially now the price to come off a bit, will work like a normal watch. So you can actually, if, and unless you, unless you sort of really do it damage, you can wear it every day without worrying about it. And that's the great thing about these watches is that, I mean, I was swimming. I've got a, I've got a very early gold GMT. And I was swimming in it, swimming with it and going on, going on, and I wrote my book about Barretta. I was going sort of on adventures with it. Yeah. You know, through the woods of South Carolina and all this kind of stuff. I got back and I flew from America to Switzerland because it was a GPS G. And then I went on the tour of the auction houses that, that evening. And the guy behind the counter looked at me in sort of awe. And I said, I know, I'm that famous. And they didn't know what you're wearing on your wrist. And I said, with this. And I handed it to him, he said, it's amazing. I haven't seen one of these. I've only heard, and I thought, well, hang on a second. What am I doing? But the things are in the safe and I never wear it now because, because obviously, I don't want to destroy its value. But I was wearing it until, until relatively recently, as an everyday watch. And so, that is a big part of the appeal. Is that you can actually wear it like you would a normal watch. I mean, with my other watches, it's a question of, you pull out a thing and I've got some El Cartier's, tried to set the time maybe with STEM, maybe the winding STEM comes out. Yeah. But with these things, they are bulletproof. So, I would start with that one. But then you've also got the deep-sea challenge, which is a humongous thing. Yeah. This is a watch of genuine significance rather than just sort of, you know, style/take top frenzy. Yeah, it's more than somebody just said, okay, we're going to make. It's written the code for the diving watch. There's a reason why diving watches look like that. Yeah, yeah. And that's because Rolex made them like that. Yes. And I know that other people can say they'll want to prove what's before. There was actually a waterproof pocket watch on the exhibition, the Great Exhibition in 1851. So, the waterproofing of watches has been around for a while. But it took Rolex to domesticate it, if you like. Yes, a designer, it wasn't necessarily only appropriate for the great exhibition. Yeah. You know, because you can have it at your home. And anybody can make anything, not anybody. But it's very easy to make a prototype. Yes, very nicely. I totally, totally, together. Whenever I see people come out with concept cars and things like that, I'm like, well, I mean, it's sort of a pointless thing to look at because anybody can sort of just make a one-off thing in a factory if they've got the money and time to do it. But the point is, what are you going to send that to market? And I think that that's the interesting thing with the Samaritaners. And what I'm hearing from you is that ultimately the difference between what Rolex made specifically to be for divers for scientists, for the militaries is exactly the same thing that you're able to guess as a regular human being. And also, because they're quite conservatively managed, you have a watch that has, my psychological, homemade psychological insight is that you've grown up with advertising for Rolex of a watch that looks quite similar to when I reach my maturity, whenever that may be. I will be able to say that is the watch that I remember seeing pictures of. It will be altered slightly, but not enough to have dimmed that sort of childhood passion. Yeah, absolutely. So, perfect. Well, I think that anyone who's been listening to this, if they've not turned off, have emerged no more than they came in with. And for that, I enormously thank you, Nick, for and let's do all of the families. Yes, well, as a way they come out. We can do this. But thank you very much for introducing us to the Samaritaners. And there's plenty of links around there and there are many websites available with conflicting opinions. By the book. Yes, yes. By the book, then read the comments. And then by the book first, if you read the comments, you'll be put off fine. Yes, indeed. Fair enough. And thank you very much for joining. Thank you. I remain Tom Chamberlain and this has been the luxury dispatch. The podcast that tells all the stories you didn't realise you wanted to know and I'll just tell you all the questions you were yet to ask. Please do like, subscribe and if you have any comments, be look forward to reading them. Agree, disagree, suggest other topics you'd like to hear us cover. No review will go unread. Thank you for listening.