How the Media Shapes the Cornell Lie, with Matt Taibbi, and the Harms of "White Guilt," with Eli and Shelby Steele | Ep. 1414

Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at noon east. Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show. Happy Thursday. We have a great show for you today. Oh, two of my favorite people are going to be here second hour, Eli and Shelby Steele. These guys were part of one of the shows I've done that most sticks out in my memory. It was before we had video. It was back in 2020, and it was just an absolutely emotionally stunning exchange. They are the two geniuses behind the documentary, What Killed Michael Brown? Of course, Shelby Steele is very well known. He's in the show. He's in the Thomas Sowell ranks when it comes to black conservatives who have been ostracized, bullied, attacked, etc., because they don't go along with a certain race essentialism, very popular in academia and amongst the modern left. And he has been fearless in writing out about what bullshit that is for decades. Eli is his son, and Eli has been basically dead. Since he was one year old, and I've told you guys this story before, and those of you who are with us from the beginning may remember that first episode was really tough because we didn't have visual. We only had audio, and Eli couldn't read lips. He was really, he has cochlear implants, and so he was really struggling to try to hear what I was saying and respond. But we had this extraordinary exchange at the end of it where I said, you know, I'm so glad that I had you on. We weren't sure whether it was going to work given your hearing challenges, but I'm so glad we got through it. And he confessed that everyone else had canceled him, even though that documentary was stunning and really actually genuinely important. And if you haven't seen it, go watch it, What Killed Michael Brown? Because when they heard that he was hearing impaired, they just felt uncomfortable about it. They didn't think he'd be able to hear. You know, he. He talks a little differently because he's not a hearing person, and everyone had canceled him. And I was just, we had the most, like, touching exchange where I confessed to him we had considered it. And in the end, we said, you know what, let's try it. And if he thinks he can do it, then, you know, we'll trust in that, and we'll go for it. Anyway, it wound up being an extraordinary exchange that I've referenced many times. Those two are special gentlemen, father and son, and they're here, second hour, with a new documentary. And also just so compelling on the subject of white guilt. That's one of Shelby's bestselling books. And they, the premise of their film is white guilt is black power. And that, you know, all these whites have run around self-flagellating for decades now, trying to make themselves feel better about America's original sins. And they, there have been certain members of the black community who have tried to exploit that. They get a leg up in this field or that. And all of it is to the detriment of America. And there's just nobody better to make this case than Shelby Steele. So they're both here, second hour. First, though, another wonderful person who I love, Matt Taibbi, will be here in one second. We're going to discuss, among other things, the Cornell Eight. That's what I'm calling them. It's seven guys, and she's now an accused assaulter. The alleged victim here may have molested. One of the seven herself, when he was, unlike Jane Doe, physically incapacitated, physically helpless, which, by the way, actually is a crime currently under New York law, unlike what she's alleging, which is voluntary intoxication on her part, followed by sex she says was nonconsensual. It's not a crime in New York. Sorry, it's not. That's the frustration of some of her supporters and why Kathy Hochul wants to change the law. But sex. Sex, while under the influence of something that has created a physical helplessness for you, well, that actually is illegal. And that's what defendant number one has alleged Jane Doe did to him. Guess how Cornell handled that? You know, we talked about it yesterday. Now, in the wake of all the back and forth that we've seen over the past week or two on this, attorneys for Jillia Lopes, you remember his lawyer Tara was here. Last week have filed a petition to have New York State Attorney General Letitia James removed as the special prosecutor in this case before it even gets started at issue is her obvious bias, as made clear in her posts on both X and Facebook on September 28th that read, quote, what this young woman has been forced to endure forced. I mean, it kind of sounds like she's made up her mind. Folks is horrific and unacceptable. I'm holding her in my heart and in my prayers to her and to all survivors. You are not alone. We stand with you. Kind of sounds like she's chosen a horse in this thing. You may be surprised to learn that's not a prosecutor's job. It's to seek justice. It's not to just assume the people being accused are guilty and how she can hang them. Just three days after that post, New York Governor Kathy Hochul. Appointed her special prosecutor to criminally investigate these seven defendants. Lopes's lawyers say the social media posts show, quote, James is not and cannot remain neutral in investigating this matter. We asked Hochul's office for comment and they referred us to this moment from the governor's joint press conference with Letitia James last week, which we played at the time. And kudos to the reporter who asked the question, who we have since learned is New York. One's Dan Rivoli. But watch this because it's clear Governor Hochul wants us to accept this as Tish James adequately dealing with the problem of her bias in those online posts. You tell me whether that's actually what happened. Attorney General, on your Facebook page three days ago, you wrote what this young woman has been forced to endure is horrific and unacceptable. You're not alone. We stand with you. But why did you affirm her allegations as fact without doing your own fact finding investigation to the governor? Why did you appoint an official who made a public statement affirming those allegations as fact as someone who's supposed to be doing an investigation? I will answer that. I have every confidence in our attorney general to do what she has always done. Look at the facts, examine the record and draw the proper conclusions. That's exactly what's going to happen in this case. I will not comment on a Facebook post. OK, so Hochul says I have every confidence in her. Hochul is not the one who made the comments. James was the one on the hot seat. And James actually got away with trying to say I won't comment on a Facebook post as though it were not hers. We, of course, also reached out to Tish James for comment. Have not yet heard back. Joining me now is Matt Taibbi. As I mentioned, he is editor of Racket News on Substack. 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When you're checking out so they know we sent you. Matt, great to see you. This is just so outrageous and good for the defense lawyers for this one defendant, Lopes, for trying to bounce her off of this case since it's very clear she is incapable of being fair. What do you make of it? Well, once a prosecutor has decided to prosecute, obviously they're going to do everything in their power to go. Forward and try to make the defendants look as guilty as possible. But they're not at that stage of the investigation yet, which is the troubling part. You know, there's there's already been a decision not to indict in this case based on some concrete statements that the Jane Doe made at the time. And by the way, it's frustrating that this is Jane Doe. When did it happen, by the way, Megan, that you? You don't have the right to confront your accuser anymore in these kinds of cases. Well, not just that. When? When? Why must the media be complicit in keeping this woman's anonymity? I don't know the answer to that question. This has been going on for a while. And I know that a significant majority of reporters now actually think that they're illegally obligated not to print the names of the people involved in these cases. But that's just not the case. The courts may not do it, but they can certainly do it. Yeah. So if Letitia James has already come to the conclusion that forced is something that happened this early in the process, that's very troubling. Yeah. And these guys know it. And yesterday we heard not only the news that defendant number one, we are saying the name since we're one of the only programs actually presenting facts that are exonerating for the young men. So I figure since the names are everywhere in the most negative light, we'll say them here. Where we're presenting at least some mitigating factors. But the first defendant, Matt Ingalls, whose real name is Omar, has fled reportedly back to Dubai in the UAE, where he's from. I'm sure because he realizes his goose is cooked here, that the fix is in. There is zero chance Tish James is not going to try to indict him and the others with all of her power. And as we all know, you can indict a ham sandwich. So she's probably going to get her indictment and subject him to years. And in the course of criminal torture, meanwhile, this woman told a story that was so flat footed that even the original D.A. said, I believe every word you said, and that's why I can't bring it. So we heard that yesterday. But we also got a listen, Matt, to audio tape that Jane Doe had made herself. First, we heard her with Matt Ingalls earlier in the week. Then ABC yesterday released a tape between Jane Doe. And Walter, sorry, Winston Lee. He's the one who is involved in Trist number three, along with Ingalls. And I'm going to play it. But what I have to tell you, what's happening here is ABC, to me, is clearly in cahoots with Jane Doe and her lawyer. And they are executing a plan to ruin these defendants in the court of public opinion day by day with. New updates to their reporting that will poison the well and turn everyone against these young men. And it's been very well executed day by day. ABC suddenly has a new exclusive on texts that make these young men look terrible on the Snapchat chain. And the new exclusives very rarely, if ever, go against Jane Doe and the story she's telling here is or at least. You wouldn't think it did based on ABC's editorial. So here's the latest that they released yesterday with Jane Doe's conversation when she tried to call Trist partner number four, though he participated in the third interlude of the evening. Winston Lee, listen. Tonight, newly obtained phone calls Jane Doe recorded with some of the fraternity brothers she would accuse of rape appear to show the men tried to contain the fallout and shape the narrative. Three weeks after the election. The alleged assault. Hey, what's up? Jane Doe tells sophomore Winston Lee she's trying to piece everything together. I was like deeply, deeply intoxicated. At some point I said yes to ketamine. I'm so sorry about all like the backlash you're getting from this. I feel so bad for you, dude. Um, I actually like right afterwards they told me not to message you because they thought you were going through a lot. So so I constructed this like letter to send to you. But Jane Doe presses him. I was completely and totally intoxicated. And then given multiple sedatives. And then I was surrounded by upwards of eight to 10 men. This is classified as a gang rape. That's when Lee's tone appears to change. Why was it? Can I can I ask, like, what's what's the purpose for why you decided to call Jane Doe tells him I was blacked out for half of it. How did all these people get in there? Lee doesn't mention he was enthusiastic on this Snapchat thread where more than 50 fraternity brothers were invited to the room. There was nothing saying that, like, anything was happening. In that room or anything. So, Matt, the first thing you notice when you listen to that tape, just like the tape she made of Matt Ingalls, is ABC has decided not only to not name Jane Doe, which they absolutely can do. It's not illegal at all. It's just a unwritten policy that they try to keep the name of alleged rape victims from becoming public, which is just so anachronistic and paternalistic and, frankly, sexist in any event. They don't play her voice. Do you know? You almost don't notice it. It's like a trick of the journalists because the he pops in and repeats what her words are in the transcript. But in both of these tapes, ABC has revealed they don't even play her voice as if Americans are going to recognize the voice played and say, aha, I know who that is. And that deprives us of a lot. Absolutely. There's an awful lot. You can glean from tone of voice whether or not a person is absolutely certain about what they're saying, whether there's some hesitation, whether there's friendliness, jocularity in the relationship. All of these things are part of the evidence. And there are things that certainly if this goes to a criminal case that will eventually be heard. But, you know, you're absolutely right. You know, the accuser doesn't get to participate or doesn't have to participate in the back and forth with these stories. It's just a strange journalistic affectation that that's grown up around these cases. And it doesn't really make sense that it doesn't. I'm not quite clear about why they're doing it, except to try to shape the cases in the favor of the accusers. And why would you do that? I mean, look, I worked. At Rolling Stone for a long time, our magazine was severely damaged by, you know, a not dissimilar case where we, you know, we sort of bent over backwards to try to embrace the story of an accuser. Now that the circumstances were very different than this one. But we made some journalistic mistakes, frankly, in the reporting of that story that ended up being very, very costly. And we and it wouldn't have happened if we had if we had done if we treated both parties the same way, which is what I think they need to do at this stage of a case. You have to presume that anything could be true, that they could be guilty. They could be innocent. Anything could be true. They also highlighted some of the men of Chi Phi coming in during the Title IX investigation and reiterating that this was that what they had heard. These weren't the actual alleged perpetrators, just fraternity members, that what they had heard was it was consensual. Whatever happened in that room was consensual. And that, you know, the way this is presented is, of course, there must have been coordination to come up with a narrative that it was consensual. And ABC, actually, I think we have two soundbites, Deb. Correct me if I'm wrong. But there's one where the editorial is saying, you know, someone accused them. And then the second one is of the guys going in there and saying consensual, consensual. Let's play those. Let's watch the first one with the editorial by ABC. Weeks after Jane Doe reported her alleged 2024 fraternity house assault, videos obtained by ABC News show Chi Phi members who were in the house that night but not involved in the group's sex telling Cornell University police they heard it was all consensual. What people were saying was that there was like multiple consenting adults in this room. There was a consensual act that took place. And that's it's yeah, that's it's really what the general rumor I was going around was that there was a yeah, it was a consensual thing. The investigators seem curious about the witness's use of the word consensual. Dude, I was in college. Did I get it? I'm like in college. I wouldn't have been like, oh, that was a sick consensual act last night. Right. Like, I guess. How do they know it was consensual? I mean, I can't recall exactly what was said, but yeah, I mean, they said that they had sex with her, I guess. He said he remembered seeing Jane Doe in bed talking to people but did not recall names. She was laying on the bed. She was I remember she was fully clothed. I can't really remember who was in the room. The officer followed up. I just get worried. Because you know how it looks. You're a brother. I know. Yeah. And very clearly know what she's doing. Right. But can't remember who all was in there from here for Ali. You know, I mean, I didn't know exactly what she was doing. No, I can't recall exactly everyone who was in there. And like I said before, I don't want to make I don't want to make assumptions. Right. Based on what I don't remember. OK, one more for you here where this is ABC News. with some more editorial on it. An officer then asked one of the fraternity brothers about that meeting and those messages. So I need you to be honest with me. I'm told, and maybe the other people that I spoke with are not being honest with me, and you are, was that there was a house meeting about it. We didn't have a meeting about it specifically. It was our weekly chapter meeting. We got through a bunch of stuff. Any text messages or anything like that about it? Not to my knowledge, no. You didn't get any? I don't have any, no. Did you have some? No. Cornell police also noted a tip from an anonymous caller saying fraternity leadership asked potential witnesses to stay quiet because the reputation of all involved and the frat would be ruined. Okay, so here's the pattern if you watch ABC's reporting on this, Matt. They don't report right after that that at the same time the Cornell frat bros were allegedly saying keep quiet about it or the reputation of the frat will be ruined, literally at the same time that Jane Doe was saying to her own sorority sisters and others, please keep this quiet and don't tell anyone. Don't tell anyone. Keep it under wraps because she, too, was embarrassed. In the beginning days, everyone was embarrassed. No one was proud of their behavior. But the way this gets spun every morning and evening on ABC is only the one side of the story. Like, obviously, the cops didn't believe that these guys didn't coordinate on the word consensual. Obviously, it was only the guys who were like, geez, be quiet about this. It would ruin our reputations. How about her saying it? And I'm telling you, there's no doubt in my mind. It's my opinion, but there's no doubt in my mind that this is all being fed to them. Where else are they getting all of this? By Jane Doe's lawyer. How else would they have the tape of Jane Doe confronting the two? And apparently there's a third tape out there, young men. It's not in Cornell's interest to be leaking all of this to ABC. It's possible. But if Cornell were leaking it, I think we'd have somewhat more of a fair and balanced presentation by ABC, since they didn't throw all seven guys off campus. In any event, the whole thing feels like trial by media, and we all know how that usually ends. Yeah, and they're leaving out again also the important point that there was a reason why this case didn't proceed to a criminal case in the very beginning because of the statement. The statements of Jane Doe at the time, you know, they they couldn't proceed with any kind of theory of nonconsensual of a nonconsensual encounter because of her own statements. So that should be that background has to be in every part of the coverage, but it's not. And you're right. It's just they're they're simply repeating a narrative that sounds frankly. Like, it's the opening statement of, you know, the lawsuit or the complaint from the lawsuit without the counterbalancing narrative that you would naturally throw in if you were doing any kind of genuine reporting and, you know, strangely, an offshoot of all this, the thing that really makes me nervous about this case is not so much the precedent that, you know, these seven, well, it's definitely troubling that these guys might be. Get in trouble or that they, you know, might be convicted of something that they didn't really do or be labeled, you know, gang rapists for the rest of their lives. But, you know, the New York Times this morning had an opinion column that really blasted the idea of what they call values, neutral law and, you know, expressing frustration with the sort of consent. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. It doesn't fit the technical definition of a crime, but crime isn't enough. We need to go farther. We need to find some way that we can punish people in situations where they haven't committed a crime. And, you know, this is already one way, by the way, the sort of trial by media, that's already enough to mean to to destroy someone's life. But the fact that they're searching around for other ways is is also troubling. Yeah. I mean, there's been plenty of attention now called to the alleged death threats and, you know, in general threats to Jane Doe and her family, which is very wrong, deeply wrong. People need to stop that immediately and be prosecuted if they if the threats rise to that level. Almost nothing about the threats to the young men who, unlike Jane Doe, have their pictures and their names out there for all to see. I mean, you know, to the point where the one defendant. Has now fled the country. I'm sure it's both those and the Tish James threat. But, you know, just the the ruination of these young men's lives before we know exactly their side of the story even is immoral. And anybody, it could be me, it could be anybody reporting fairly on the case about what the facts actually are, including the ones that are not good for Jane Doe, becomes the subject of. Attack as well. Right. You're the believe all women crowd is vicious. And what what becomes clear, Matt, is that this isn't this isn't about what happened in that Chi Phi fraternity house for most of these people at all. It's about politics. It's about some dynamic between men and women that they feel very aggrieved by. And they're working out their own issues on these seven men and the University of Cornell as a rape. Enabler. Right. Or maybe something else. Maybe their own empty, vapid lives that don't have God in them as a guide to right and wrong and moral behavior and what matters. I don't know. What do you think? I mean, isn't that the extraordinary irony of this case? You know, I grew up in an era in the post 60s era where basically the elimination of spirituality. You know, the mocking of people who go to church, people who were still religious, you know, they were figures of fun for liberal America for 50 years. We ridiculed people who who had any kind of spiritual or moral education earlier in their lives. And now all of a sudden, after 50 plus, 60 plus years, you know, we're suddenly waking. Up and realizing, you know, it's actually bad to wake up in a world where kids don't have a proper mortal, moral or spiritual grounding. And as a parent, you know, I look at this case and I don't think, you know, I don't side with the boys or with Jane Doe or either of them. I just feel horrified that there is this lack of an education that young people need to get. Before they go off to a place like Cornell, where they're going to be living and have lots of freedom to engage with each other and do all kinds of things and experiment with drugs and alcohol and all these things. And they don't have the spiritual or moral grounding that people used to have. And that's should be deeply troubling to people of all political persuasions. I mean, that's a that's a problem that we need to. You know, reckon with. And it's not really a political issue. It's it's a sociocultural issue. But there is this tremendous pressure to present it as something else. As you know, I saw BuzzFeed did a story about how, you know, there's a big problem because women are forced to do too much of the emotional labor in raising young men. And as a result, people don't young men don't. How to behave themselves when they're out in the real world. Well, you know, some of that is true, right? Like, obviously, young men definitely benefit from having fathers and being raised and given some grounding. But, you know, that's not the whole story. There's there's just a whole part of society that's sort of been removed from from the lives of most people. We just a lot of people don't go to church anymore. You see the latest numbers. It's it's down to under 50 percent in a lot of the. In most of the country, people who are regular churchgoers or have some kind of organized spiritual lives and to suddenly wake up and say, yeah, isn't it a shame that all these people don't have a moral language or a moral vocabulary? I mean, the irony of that is is just beyond belief. I mean, you know, Kafka couldn't invent that. Right. It's incredible. Yes. My son, my 17 year old's reading Kafka right now. I'm like, you better pay attention because that's a reference. that's gonna come up for the rest of your life. what that means. Yes. And here's what you're getting. It's universally pieces like that in BuzzFeed. Like, what is the problem with young men? Where did we go wrong? How can we fix young men? And almost zero about what went wrong with this young woman? How do we stop her and other young women like her from making these same choices? Just the other day on this program, Heather McDonald was on, and I was saying that our boys' school had sent out a very good message about, listen, in the wake of this news that everybody's talking about, here's kind of the messaging that we've given the boys here. And it was very good. It was basically, be an ethical person, be an upstanding person, respect yourself, respect others. It wasn't boy blaming. It wasn't boy exonerating. It was, this is what we stand for at this school. And we expect you to live like this in your private life too. And I was saying, I bet we won't get the same from our girls' school, which we hadn't at that point. And if we did, it was, it would probably be more like, watch out for mean, terrible boys, because our girls' school has tended to be a little bit more woke than our boys' school. And I didn't give them the benefit of the doubt. Well, I'm happy to tell you, I was very wrong because our girls' school, no sooner had I gotten off the air, then they sent out a message that basically, I'll read you what it said in part, how it read, that our girls have regular health classes in every grade, that a significant part of the curriculum is devoted to helping them develop habits of mind that will serve them as young adults, how to identify and develop healthy relationships, how to respect themselves and value their autonomy in a world of profound pressure from peers and the media, how to exercise judgment consistent with their values, even when there are forces threatening to compromise that judgment. Our objective is not to teach them what to think, but to help them develop the confidence and critical thinking that will empower them throughout their lives. Beyond health classes, we have extensive regular programming throughout the year for middle and upper school. And they wrote in this thing about how we conduct a lot of these classes with boys present and teach them to coordinate, to respect. We talk about consent with young men and young women participating together. That, I thought, was perfect, actually. I was pleasantly surprised by both schools hitting exactly the right message. I'm just going to go out on a limb and say my old schools in New York did not go that way. But what you're seeing is this explosion, notwithstanding the very good messages at our schools, of this narrative, like, it is time to re-educate America's young men. Right. Right. And it's exactly the wrong message. I mean, I feel really badly for these young people in a lot of ways because they get absolutely no direction about what is the correct way to handle yourself. When should you start having sex? When should you settle down? When does, should you be having sex as much as you want or as often as you want? Or should you wait until you're, you know, really in love? When is it appropriate to get married? Like, the messages are all completely mixed. They go to college, they'll get no direction whatsoever in any of these questions most of the time. Well, they get direction. It goes the other way. Well, right. Yes. But they're all deeply confused. And as a result, you know, they don't really know what to do. I mean, John Stuart Mill, who is sort of the, you know, the high priest of how to operate in a free society, he talked quite a lot about something he called, you know, the listening to the internal sanctions, right? So, a person in a free society, you know, in order for it to function properly, people have to have a set of internal sanctions. They have to have a conscience. They have to have a fear of that terrible feeling that you've done something wrong. You have to have a sense of duty and obligation to do the right thing. And if you don't have that, by the time you get to Cornell, it's too late. Like, there's no set of rules you can put in place that is going to prevent or keep kids on the right track. They already need to have that by the time you send them out into the world. And we do not make sure that we do that. Like, we don't have to have that. We don't have a system for making sure that kids have that kind of education. As a parent, I worry about that all the time. And that should be what we're talking about with cases like this. And we're not. As you say, the discussion is going in a completely different direction, just toward more blame. And as you've already found out, blame as a media strategy does not work. Yes. Instead, this is what we get. Nutcases like this, inside four and five. Watch this. They let seven of their friends hurt another girl. They sent a text to their friends and they said, hey, we have a girl that's trapped. Do you want to come hurt her too? And if you ever got a message like that, that said, hey, come hurt another girl, come hurt a girl. This will be fun. And it will not be fun. It will not be fun. It will not be fun to be mean to another girl and take her into a room and block her. Wouldn't that be mean? She was really sad. She was crying and so sad. And she wanted her mama. But her mama. And the boys were mean. That's not true. Mean to her and so awful. And they wanted to hurt her. The boys didn't hurt her. Some boys weren't in the room. Only seven were in the room. But the other 57 boys, they knew it was happening. They did nothing. They let her get hurt. But it's not okay to hurt them. They were flying green and green for their mom and dad. No, I bet she was. She was really sad and she wanted her mama and her dad. No. No, she didn't. No, she wasn't. To your job as a boy, even now when you're little, even now when you're four, it's your job to watch the world and see where girls need help and say, I am strong. I am Theo. I am Theo Knight and I do what's right and I will help a girl if she needs help. This is very sick. What Jane Doe was actually saying in that room, according to those who were there, was we're all consenting adults here. In medieval times, this was normal and was opening the door to let more men in and was actually verbally consenting to threesomes. All of that is an insane lie to her four-year-old. But again, the burden on him, and I guarantee you this woman didn't make a companion video saying, I, as a woman, want other young women and girls to know you are empowered to steer your own life, to say yes and no to conduct, to actually decide to close your legs and not give it up for four men in a night. And you will feel better about yourself if you draw those limits. Yeah. I mean, look, the contradiction between claiming and asserting that women have agency in all things and then suddenly denying responsibility. It's glaring, I think, to men. But at the same time, I think men need to learn a lesson from this, that it isn't right, that you do have to probably intervene if you know something. And I would teach my boys the same thing. I have three little kids and they're not quite old enough to understand this stuff. And that's another thing about that crazy video. Unlike her four-year-old. I think it's a little early to start getting into gang rape with a four-year-old. I'm constantly amazed at the total lack of discretion that adults in America have now about these topics with their kids. But anyway, yeah, you want to teach good behavior and you want to stress to your kids that, yes, you're a woman, but you're not a man. And you're not a woman. And you're not a man. You do have responsibility in these situations, but that's not unique just to boys. It's unique to all human beings. And I think that's the problem. If you're getting your moral education from TikTok instead of from the Bible or Tolstoy or something like that, you're going to be steered wrong in life. Yeah, certainly if you listen to this mother who does not have a working familiarity with something we call facts. And here's the real irony of it all, Matt. And I made a reference to it a moment ago. Cornell is teaching the students there something about sexuality, but it is not to be careful and reverent around it and respectful of yourself and your God-given body. It's quite the opposite. Let me start with what Ann Coulter wrote. She went to Cornell and she wrote, first of all, she references the comment that Jane Doe allegedly made, which was, this was normal in the medieval times and writes, it wasn't, but boy, that's sounds sophisticated. Doe should get a job writing for The Times. And then she points out actual articles in The New York Times, which is, of course, taking Doe's side in this whole thing, including from Jake Nevins, a case for hookups with strangers, from another writer traveling for a cuddle or more at European sex parties. Another, a throuple's tricky geometry. Another, the joys of frivolous sex. Another, dating experts explain polyamory and open relationships. And then you look back at, okay, let's see, some of the recent offerings at Cornell, she says, which will give you the tenor of the moral instruction there. An exhibit on taboo-breaking sex and stereotype-breaking women intended to promote the view that pleasurable, consensual sex could never be anti-feminist. A lecture on throuples and non-monogamy. A course called Decadence to study writers who sought to free the pleasures of sexual desire from their more conventional ethical moorings. This paired with a substack written by a Cornell senior named Jared Letterman, who wrote, Cornell has a sex education program, and wrote about how in 2019, their health authority, Cornell Health, authored a guide titled Sexual Pleasure, Finding the Sweet Spot, which opens by declaring that sex can make for a terrific study break. Students are encouraged to explore sexual fantasies, experiment with sex toys, consider bondage and fetish gear, exposure to pornography, Cornell assures us, is, quote, totally normal. He says that those interested in watching it are directed toward ethical porn and the, quote, feminist porn awards. Today, this report is available inside a sexual health resource library that has been handpicked by Cornell Health staff. He goes on to write that they publish something called self-exploration, which tells students they are entitled to experience all the pleasure their bodies can provide. Instructs them to set aside private time or pursuit of the goal. Meticulously describes progressive touching exercises. States that nudity is optimal. Then goes on to promote the sexual pleasure guide. Again, same thing. Direct the students to a checklist titled, Yes, No, Maybe So. A sexual inventory stock list. A copy of which you can find on their website. The list includes sex with two people at once, sex with three people at once, sex with, more than three people at once, cyber sex, open sexual relationships, sex toys, blindfolding, bondage, biting, scratching, spanking, and slapping for sexual pleasure, sexual clamps, sexual activity involving various bodily fluids, and so on. Some of these displayed in dorms. And isn't that exactly what we saw inside Chi Phi that night? Imagine this. You are surrounded by fellow fans, sharing wings, sharing drinks, high-fiving random strangers. Everybody remembers the game. Nobody remembers the guy coughing up a lung behind you. Until that is a few days later at 2 a.m. when you wake up with a fever and your throat's on fire. This is Doug's worst nightmare. He hates when this happens. Now what? Urgent care? Closed, of course. ER? Good luck there. Telehealth? I mean, okay, but the pharmacy's closed. That's where a medical emergency kit from the wellness company could come in. These are not first aid. kits. These things contain essential prescriptions used for over 30 common conditions. We all know when we need them. We don't need a doctor in that moment. We need the script. Sinus and ear infections, UTIs, stomach bugs, traveler's diarrhea, and more on hand before you need them so you have them when you need them. Use your doctor-developed guidebook to select the right prescription or call their telemed doctor standing by. It's like an urgent care and drugstore at home for when you need it. When you are sick, traveling, or stranded, you could have used a medical emergency kit. Wouldn't that have been easier? Order online in minutes and it's shipped right to your door. And save $45 with my promo code MK at UrgentCareKit.com slash MK. That's promo code MK at UrgentCareKit.com slash MK. Sex with more than one person. Sex with more than three people at once. And spanking by the way, that's one of the allegations against defendant number two is that he spanked her rear end so hard he left a bruise. All of this promoted by Cornell, which now wants us to believe they're shocked, shocked at what went on inside of Chi-Fi. It's really incredible, right? I mean, you could go all the way back to fear of flying, right? And even as kids in the MTV generation, I remember we were all getting the message, you know, the right to pursue as many sexual partners as you wanted was something that was empowering and freeing. And, you know, especially for women, frankly, right? Like, this was a concrete result of the, you know, the 60s and the liberation victories. But the one thing that was mocked and ridiculed was this idea of, you know, sex remaining within marriage, or that it's something that's sacred or has any kind of spiritual meaning. I mean, I think even in the most mild forms of what you're talking about, like, I went to a school that had an ethics class that had versions of sex education, but they didn't teach you that. Sex was something that was more than just a physical act, that it was something that you should consider spiritual or exalted or, you know, poetic. They just described it as almost like a kind of plumbing, right? And that's very confusing to young people if they don't understand what they're dealing with. It's, you know, so it's not surprising at all that we end up with that behavior this way, especially because, you know, these bacchanals have been going on since the 60s and celebrated in movies, and nobody's ever said a thing about it until we get an incident like this, where suddenly, you know, the behaviors are picked apart. So it's a lot of mixed messages, and it's very confusing for young people, and I feel for them. It's amazing. And they take no responsibility. Cornell's like, what? Huh? It wasn't us. You know, like, this is a terrible gang rape. What do you mean? You're the ones who fostered this environment of sex with two people, sex with three people, sex toys, bondage, slapping. And then they're like, who? What? Us? We're shocked. It's just so cynical. I want to ask you about something that happened in Ithaca yesterday, where someone you know, Michael Tracy, he's an online journalist who has, he did report Jane Doe's actual name, and then a shitstorm unleashed on him that was so fierce, he then took down the report, which is unlike this guy, because he seems to enjoy being irascible and disliked. He went to Ithaca because they're having a town hall meeting. It was with the city council that is now, they were voting on whether to temporarily block Cornell and student organizations from getting certain new city permits. Like, they don't want student groups getting city permits that allow assemblies or parades or events. They're basically trying to punish everybody. Saying, you know, Cornell's an out-of-control child that needs to be controlled. So he showed up there, and this is some of what went down. And you should be ashamed for using the power of your office to conclusively declare that any American citizen has committed crimes as heinous as gang rape before any semblance of an adjudicative process. It's a scandal that this resolution would even be entertained much less passed. You're simply copy and paste from this lawsuit that is expressly tailored to extract the maximum settlement money from Cornell, from the sororities, from the fraternities, and others. What due diligence did you do to corroborate the veracity of those claims before you put them out in the public arena, and then did this threat inflation, his massive stereo routine, claiming you're somehow going to prevent sexual assault by thwarting students' ability to hold events for a month? There's no empirical basis for that whatsoever. And somebody on your staff puts my request to speak in the trash can? You've had your time, sir. Yes, that's enough. That's outrageous. You should resign. Let's go. That was him confronting the mayor that the mayor had called for the moratorium because he said otherwise students wouldn't be safe. That Cornell says the mayor failed to hold the perpetrators to account. The university's response is a miscarriage of justice that continues to pose a significant threat to students and residents who may be victimized at unsafe and under-monitored on- or off-campus student events. Good for Michael Tracy for going up there and giving that guy an earful, not that it's going to do any good. So I know Michael very well. Michael and I did a podcast together for a little while. And Michael, to me, is the model for what journalists are used to be and still should be. They should be Pains in the ass. who are not afraid to offend absolutely everybody, including their own friends. Um, and he is pointing out something that's absolutely true in this case. You, you cannot call somebody a perpetrator, uh, before they've been judged to be perpetrators. That's already, you know, that's poisoning the well. He's also been leading the charge, uh, against this notion that you can't name, uh, Jane Doe. Uh, and you know, he's been trying to get, to get that published. I'm not exactly sure what the reasons were for him taking that name down, but, uh, he, he's absolutely right about that. And he's been alone really, uh, among major journalists in pointing that out. So that, uh, you know, he's doing a great thing and I think, I think he should be lauded for it. Yeah. Yeah. He's definitely irritated me many times, but I agree with you, your general assessment, but he lives for that. You know, like that's kind of his, his brand and there should be more, there should be more people up giving Ithaca, and it's mayor a hard time and pointing out Cornell's hypocrisy. All of this is just so cynical. It's all, it's all cynical. Matt Tybee, a pleasure, my friend. Thanks so much for coming on. I hope to see you again soon. Thanks so much, Megan. Take care. After the break, Eli and Shelby Steele together, waiting until you see their new documentary, white guilt. We've got some excerpts. What happens when a potential customer calls your business and no one answers, they might leave a message, but there's a good chance they will just call someone else. That's why today's episode is, is brought to you by quo spelled Q U O the business phone system that helps you stay connected with customers wherever you are. Quo brings your calls, texts and voicemails into one place. So your whole team can see conversations, pick up where someone else left off and respond quickly. It's easy to set up. It works on any device, lets you keep your existing number and makes adding teammates as simple as you possibly can make it along with, you know, your business growing. You'll see your customer base grow too. When your team is unavailable, Quo's built in AI agent can step in. It can answer after hours calls. 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I took it from my shoulder and then I ordered it again and found real relief. They make it easy to find out if you're going to join me as a satisfied relief factor customer and talking about how much it helps you tackle your daily aches and pains three weeks for just $17 and 76 cents, not even a $20 bill. And you could be relieved of those daily aches and pains. Simply go to relief factor.com or call 1-800-4-relief. You see, this thing works by attacking, the inflammation around your pain and the actual pain itself. You're going to connect with their friendly local team and they will do everything they can to help you. And maybe you will be sharing your story with them and with me soon too. Hey everyone, it's me, Megan Kelly. I've got some exciting news. I now have my very own channel on Sirius XM. It's called the Megan Kelly channel, and it is where you will hear the truth unfiltered with no agenda and no apologies. Along with the Megan Kelly show, you're going to hear from people like Mark Halperin, Link Lauren, Maureen Callahan, Emily Jashinsky, Jesse Kelly, Real Clear Politics, and many more. It's bold, no BS news only on the Megan Kelly channel, Sirius XM 111 and on the Sirius XM app. Our next guests are a father and son out with a new film this week. Shelby Steele is a senior fellow at the Hoover Institution, a national, humanities medal winner and author of so many fantastic bestselling books. He narrates the new film White Guilt, which he produced along with his son, filmmaker Eli Steele. Eli is an award-winning film producer, writer, and director. His 2020 documentary, What Killed Michael Brown, is a must watch. It goes into the birth of the BLM movement, the lies upon which it has been built, and what really went wrong in communities like Ferguson, Missouri. Hint, it had nothing to do with police. Their new film, which is based on Shelby's bestselling book by the same title, argues that white guilt has undermined merit and standards in American life while feeding unrest at home and abroad. Now you can find the documentary at white guilt, film.com or it's on prime video, Google play and Apple TV. Here's a bit of the trailer. Watch. How is it that white guilt has come to grant moral legitimacy to the enemies of the Western world? White guilt is a terror of being seen as a racist. It doesn't have anything to do with actual feelings of guilt. Hamas, the protesters, the prototype of the anti-Western man, that says brutal, brutal thing. Avenge modernity. I first wrote about white guilt in the 1980s, and I have watched it grow in America and across the modern world. White supremacy was fast becoming white guilt. The white man needs the Negro to free him from his guilt. White guilt. President McCabe agreed to every one of our demands. He wanted to reclaim his innocence. I was full of black rage. That's a reference there to his university president whose office Shelby stormed when he was becoming a black activist before he rethought that entire movement and its messaging and became more heterodox, at least according to what you're supposed to be on a college campus. And that's when the shunning began. Shelby and Eli, welcome back. It's great to have you both here. Good. Good to be here. Good to be here. Thank you, James, for having us. A pleasure. Okay. So, Shelby, it was about time. The book is, I mean, it's a work of art, and it's been a guide for a lot of us for many years now. And it's, it's kind of the book in documentary form. Let's pick up with the line that was in the trailer there, that white guilt is the terror of being seen as a racist. It has nothing to do with actual guilt. Explain it. Well, it's, it's not, not that hard to explain it. If you are in a dispute with someone over some issue or other, and you know that this person that you're arguing with has betrayed his, say, some of his own family in some way, then you have a moral authority that puts you in a position of superiority to, to this other person. That's why the, the, the sense, that's what white America has endured now since the early, early sixties. They've been charged with the, the crimes of the past and it is cause them and their followers an awful lot of mayhem. And it has done real damage. To our democracy. Eli, I, I know you produced this film as you did what killed Michael Brown. Why was it time for this book to be made into documentary form? That's a great question. I think she built on when my father's dead. We knew, we know, I think from our perspective, the right guilt is the great evil of our time. And also the, the most unsteady force. People talk about Marxism. They talk about liberation ideology. They talk about all these other things and they should, but you have to understand what allow these ideologies to slip into society. What was the grease? And that was white guilt because the left can say we have the solution and we are going to push the solution. And if you disagree with that, you are, you're erasure. And so that's a tremendous power to have in our society. And it's led you to decline. And so this collective guilt, that's why it's not personal. It's a collective guilt. It's still damaged. She, because how do you argue with it? Oh, you know, I have a black friend. I have, uh, you know, I've done all these things and so forth. Now they don't care. Your skin is white. You are forever. Damn. With the stings of the patch. And so, therefore you must follow up in our path that we've redemption. How has that been working out? Not too well. The moment you came to terms with some of this, Shelby, because as I mentioned, you were kind of getting sucked into the ideology for a period there in college. Like, okay, what is this? What is this newly empowered thing that it is to be a black man in America? I seem to have some power over these people who are self-flagellating, these white people. The documentary covers how you led a group of 30 students to go into your college president's office with a list of demands. You referenced the lit cigarette that was in your hands while you did it. Here's a bit of that from the documentary, White Guilt, Sat 21. Let's watch it. On a drive from Chicago to my small college in Iowa, I remember making the conscious decision to move away from Martin Luther King. Our plan was to occupy President Joseph McCabe's office and present him with our list of demands. Black professors, black dorms, black cheerleaders, black administrators. I led a group of 30 students through the door toward his office. In my hand was a lit cigarette, and there was no ashtray to be found. I saw the anger come over his face. I girded myself. I would give as good as I got, but something held him back. Our outrage at racism had far greater moral authority than his outrage over the offensiveness of my cigarette. It was this moment that I understood white guilt for the first time. Not because he cared about black people, but because he wanted to reclaim his innocence, his moral authority. He acted out of a collective, societal guilt. This is why white guilt is quite literally the same thing as black power. Now, some will look at that, Shelby, and say, well, that's a good thing. Good. He did. He gave you what you wanted, and we need black power after so many years of blacks being oppressed in America. So that's the Ibram X. Kendi philosophy, right? That the answer to past racism is current racism, except against a different group. That's about it. Because racism is racism. The problem with it is that it validates race as an essentialism, as something you're born with. And your friendships and your relations to other people are formed around this idea that race represents the naked truth of all of us as individuals. And so it pushes, in that sense, at each other's throats. And certainly, that's what's happened in the last 60 years now in America. We've done that. And let me explain one thing. Sure. That back in the height of the civil rights movement, we blacks did something that was remarkable. Martin Luther King, our great leader in many different ways, but Martin Luther King made it clear, what he did is he joined race and racism with freedom. And that's what he did. He joined racism with freedom. And his point was that I am free quite apart from what my race may be. And I want to be treated in America as a citizen of a nation that I can live in freely. Well, King had a much higher fight ahead of him that I think he realized. But nevertheless, he gave us that idea. When you have black power, it's literally the same thing as white guilt. And the white guilt is transnational in a way, because what it does is white people, because they have been on the top for, I mean, three centuries with white supremacy. And Martin Luther King came along, and he said, no, you guys are immoral. You used ways to hold us down. And the whites were shamed before the world, and they fell from the top. So everything that falls, that falls literally like a biblical fall, they have been trying to get back to the top, especially the ones on the left. And they want that innocence from America's past. So they turn on America. And so what they say is we will buy innocence. And black people shortly, after that, my father in the office with the president, he realized, wait a minute, I have power over this white man. And he stole my fishing station. He stole that. And he should buy his innocence. And so black power is selling your fishing station. White power is buying your innocence. And we've been locked in this symbiosis, everything. And that you can't get out of it. Because black power means your fishing station. And so that's a very damn neat thing. But when you see everything to this day, blacks are saying, we are the bishops here. And whites say, okay, we'll give you the program, we'll give you this, we'll give you that, and we will be innocent. And then the country goes down. Because what the whites do, if you remember, if you are a white guilt liberal, you are against America. America is a racist country. So you have no problem selling America down the river for your own innocence. Right. And we're and we see it to this day. The documentary points out that, of course, after George Floyd, the donations to this class of white liberals, or by this class of white liberals, racked with their white guilt, which makes them feel like better people, went through the roof. And you point this out in the film, like the actual numbers that Black Lives Matter and its related groups got. Here's a little bit of that in SOT 26. And our problems as a nation run much deeper than one horrible event, slavery, lynching. We announced Apple's racial equity and justice initiative with a commitment of $100 million. This country say, we've got to do more. According to the Claremont Institute, Black Lives Matters and its manifold extensions engineered one of the most successful grifts in American history. To the tune of $82.9 billion. More than the GDP of 46 African countries. That's what's insane. Almost $83 billion given to BLM and related groups by people suffering, for the most part, from white guilt. And in the documentary, you go through the companies, you know, from Morgan Stanley to Coca-Cola on down hundreds and hundreds of millions to either a ton for something in America's past, or, or you point out in the documentary, Eli, to buy insurance, you know, to protect themselves against being accused of racism on a go forward basis. When George Floyd happened, you had a situation in America where we had, uh, first Trayvon Martin, Michael Brown, and they counted other incidents. And, What Black Lives Matter had been doing during that time was saying, you are white privilege. We have systemic racism. We have white supremacy. The usage of the word white supremacy is restored in the media. You have all of the black bodies, brown bodies, all of this. All this language that was being pushed for about eight years from 2012 until George Floyd. It was all racialized language that reduced us to our mere skin color. So, you know, what killed Michael Brown? I mean, we made that film in the height of that craziness. It's still there to this day. Because you're conditioning people. You're conditioning their mind. And that's the evil of white guilt. Because we used to say, as a white person, I can't say this. Or I'll be called a racist. As a black person, I can't stay there or I'll be a race traitor. But you are telling me, so will you punish me under my father's command? And Shelby, you've been called a race traitor many times, or you point out in the film, the worst thing you can be called, which is a black conservative, which will be held against you, especially in academia. That's pretty low to get to that point, but it's also interesting. But I think one of the things that is interesting and important to be aware of is that white America knows that we are a free society, we're open-minded. They know that we have had a terrible past with regard to race. We personally. We've persecuted blacks for 400 years. Everybody knows the list now. It's been played over and over again everywhere. So whites are in a hunt, a struggle to find the moral authority they lost because of slavery. We weren't founded as a nation. We were founded as a nation in innocence. Innocence is something that we presumed, whites presumed, it didn't really much matter. As long as we stop the racism now and let blacks have a free reign, as long as we're doing that, then we have no problem. But no, history doesn't work like that. And in many ways, whites have been. They've been thrown up when they did the extremely honorable thing, which is to end slavery. And to ultimately, even in the 60s, begin to end racism in its ugliest, most simple form. And so the innocence that is now proclaimed by white Americans. Not so much innocence, reality, as it is white guilt. It is better understood as guilt. Let me ask you this, Shelby. In the film, you raise examples like Al Sharpton and Tawana Brawley. And I want to ask you, how does that chapter, people who exploit America's past of racism, in an environment where racism is not over, but it's considerably waned? I mean, even back then, when he raised those BS claims about Tawana Brawley, we were doing a lot better on race relations. But he couldn't acknowledge that. You know, he wanted to inject something toxic and divisive, even if it was made up. Here's, I'm going to play a soundbite, and then I'll ask you about why, why, why does Al Sharpton do that? To this day, he's doing that. Here is Thought 23 from the documentary White Guilt. The Tawana Brawley case. The words and KKK were scrawled on her torso. She said she'd been abducted and sexually assaulted for four days by six white men. We are not going to let this girl be the scapegoat of a corrupt system. They were bargainers, bluffers, haranguers, specialists in moral indignation. The people who made those. Those allegations lied, have increased the atmosphere of tension between the races. The backward men who saw not black development, but white guilt as the single greatest opportunity for power. Oh, so well said. So is, why? Is that why? Because it was an opportunity for power for them personally? Absolutely. But black people could not run far. Far enough and fast enough to get away from all of the lucre that the larger society was visiting on them. Money, grants, preferential treatment systems of all kinds. Because whites, again, were pursuing their own moral authority. They said, okay, you got us here. And we'll pay it off. We'll build apartment buildings on the lakefront in Chicago. We'll do all manner of things. And obviously very expensive things, which we still pay for in many ways. But we came away from this time period with a real sense that we as blacks, had moral authority and whites didn't. And therefore we would play that, we'd play moral authority like a piano. And we knew how to, Jesse Jackson was masterful. Think of, I often wonder what would he have been like if he, as a leader of a corporation or of a nation somewhere. He was very brilliant. He was a very talented man, but instead he was groveling for the corrupt ideas driven by the corrupt idea of moral authority. And he said, I'm whites are guilty now. They know what they did. They're, they're in my hands. And, and so he, he moved ahead and he became wealthy beyond imagination. Uh, and there, um. And there are millions of others in America who, who they can't get away from the goodwill of white people. Yeah. Yeah. So Eli, we, we see that in Reverend Al Sharpton, so-called Reverend, we see that in Jesse Jackson, some of the examples in your film. We see that today in somebody like Benjamin Crump, who continues to swoop into every disaster that happens to a black American and try to exploit the racial angle. He's been doing that in the Nolan Wells case, the death of this young man down in Mississippi. Um, and the, the movie does a good job of taking us through the history, because I will tell you as someone who was alive in 1994 and watched the OJ Simpson trial, I did not at the time really realize how close in time we were. Uh, and the, the movie does a good job of taking us through the history, because I will tell you as someone who was alive in 1994 and watched the OJ Simpson trial, I did not at the time really realize how close in time we were to the civil rights movement, to the Al Sharpton, Tawana, Brawley nonsense. Those scars had not yet healed and Johnny Cochran knew it and you make a point of this in the documentary here, I'll place that 25 and then I'll give it to you, Eli. He knew the court, an American institution in the age of white guilt, was more concerned with its own moral authority than truth. In 1955, the conviction of the white murderers of Emmett Till, the black teenager famously murdered for looking at a white woman in Mississippi, would have fractured the social order of the segregated South. So the facts in the case meant nothing and the murderers walked. White supremacy had to be served just as white guilt was served in the Simpson case. So, Eli, it's a it's a case that what drove that not guilty verdict was white guilt. Absolutely. And Cochran, you know, brilliant, brilliant lawyer, probably one of the best lawyers, but he knew I got to give my client a job. He did his job brilliantly and that's what he's supposed to do. And he knew in 1994, the last 30 years after the Tipperwights, the first Tipperwights Act of 1964, he knew that and also, very importantly, the L.A. riot had just been two years ago. So we were very unstable, very unstable. We didn't know, are we racist, are we not? And so Cochran knew that America was very unsure because, just like you mentioned, you didn't realize how close we were. And so how how how do we move on? And so I think that's been the struggle of our time that we're not really talking about. We have been assigned our generation, the people born the last year. have been assigned this task of how to move the country forward from this horrible patch. And so those some people like Johnny Coxman would say, "No, we are not past that. We are still suffering the ramification of the past." And so Mark Furman is just like that Bull Connor in this doubt. So all the evidence that you have, and by the way, when I was editing this footage, that was the first time I ever saw Nicole Simpson's body. You should Google it. It is horrible, almost decapitated. And I kind of wonder if we have been able to show that picture, that it would be too overwhelming for people. But we didn't. So nobody really understood what happened to Nicole and Juan, the other fishermen as well. They were brutally murdered. But Cochran knew that with all that stuff sanitized, that race was his power. The white guilt, the white people were still on their heels. And if he pushed hard enough, he might get the verdict that he did. And he did. And so that's why you see people like Ben Crump to this day still pushing on the power. He did that with Michael Brown in Ferguson. And to this day, if you go to most colleges, they're not going to show my movie, our movie. They're not going to show that. They're not going to tell you the truth. Michael Brown was still executed by a racist cop. Just yesterday, I think, Eli, Rashida Tlaib came out with that lie again, saying Michael Brown was murdered, that's what she says, by a racist cop. She does not care that it was Barack Obama's Department of Justice helmed by a black man. That found, no, Michael Brown was the aggressor based on the eyewitness testimony of five black witnesses. But the narrative is too important to people like Rashida Tlaib. It's too important to her. Go ahead, Eli. Yes. Well, I would say what you need to understand about the left is they don't see the world the way we do. We're Americans. We're stupid Americans. We actually believe in DuPont shit. The presumption of innocence is to prove them guilty. And we believe in intent. You have to prove the motive. They don't. They wipe all of that out. It's all about the impact. So Michael Brown is a dead black boy on the street. Nolan is a dead black teen in the water. And they lied in the beginning. They're three white teens. So they create this optic. And they will always, always have it. They will always have it. But everything is about the impact. Oh, it's like candy. Oh, is there a black person? Okay. Must be racism. Racism is the only explanation allowed. And so they sit there and go, how can they be blind? Well, that's the moral compass. The moral compass is all about the impact. Who is the person? Say something. Also, you can see it, I think, very clearly in what we now live by, our institutions. Now live by in America, the profound spread of wokeism. You say something is woke. Somebody is taking over American institutions, educational institutions, corporate world. I mean, it's a preoccupation of American culture now, is this silly, fruitless wokeism. I'm woke. And you're not. But whites will say, that's white guilt. We have to defend ourselves. We have to fight back. And so wherever you go in American life today, you will be touched by this need to be woke, to follow a pattern of life that makes you, innocent, and makes others, gives others moral authority. Mm-hmm. Well, you, in the film, for me, it was like, remember your life, because you go through some of what happened after George Floyd to regular Americans. You feature Paul Rossi, a math teacher at Grace University, at Grace Church School, a high school in New York City. He basically just said, I'm just not going to stand by and watch these students be indoctrinated for one minute longer. You feature Andrew Gutman. He's a dad at a school called Brearley on the Upper East Side of Manhattan who said, I'm not allowing this to be done to my 12-year-old daughter for one day longer, and wrote a letter to all 650 families in the school. You feature Jody Shaw. Jody Shaw, the woman who worked in the library at Smith College. All of these people have been on my show the same, within months of when you guys were on my show back in 2020, 2021, when we were losing our minds. The country was losing its mind over race. And innocent Americans, in this case, white Americans, were really hurt. Jody Shaw, who just wanted to do her job and did not want to have to talk about her white guilt or her racism, her latent racism, et cetera, was ultimately pushed out of Smith. And the last I checked in with her, which was about a year and a half ago, still had not found another job. She lost a lot. And here's a soundbite from the film. Again, the documentary is called White Guilt, of Jody Shaw, more recently. Hello. Thank you for signing up to participate. In the White Accountability Group for staff and faculty. These are some of the things I heard while working at Smith College. Are you just a white person or are you Jody Shaw? Well, I used to think I was just Jody Shaw. I no longer work in the Department of Residence Life. You cannot subject people. You cannot subject people to trainings where you're telling them that they are bad because they don't do something you expect them to do based upon their skin color. I retained the right to file a legal claim in a U.S. Court of Law against Smith College. It was essentially a decision between comfort or freedom. And I chose freedom. She's a hero. All three of those guys are. Heroes, are they not, Eli? I mean, they they stood up against a different kind of mob. Absolutely. I'm full of admiration for them because they did. They did the one thing that we want everybody to do. They refused to allow themselves to be reduced to the race. They said, no, we are American. And there's a very important reason why you don't allow yourself to be reduced to your race, because what the left has done. For the last six years, it changed the meaning of innocent in the Judeo-Christian tradition. Innocent is tied to your character, it's to your character. If you do something immoral, you have a way out. You can repent, you can confess, you can change your character. The left took the character element out, threw it out, and put race into it. Your innocent, or your evil, is determined by your race. Well, think about that. If you are white in this situation, you have no way out. You cannot repent skin color. You cannot change skin color. The left is going to ride that through the end. And that's why white guilt is evil. And Jody Shaw, Andrew Goodman, Paul Rosti, they know we will not allow that to happen. We will hold on to the true Judeo-Christian American Western value of character of the individual. And power to them. And we need to stand up, and more of us need to stand up and join them. And we need to stand up and join them. They are alone fighting the battles alone, and we cannot allow that to happen. the in the film. But this was it was predictable. You had predicted it. Glenn Lowry had predicted it, that this is a very dangerous thing to to reject Martin Luther King and to instead lean into how important our skin color is and our race is, Shelby. Yes. Yeah. As my wife often says, race is poison. It's not poison. Sometimes it's poison all the time. In every situation, it appears it is. And why that is, is is up to powers far beyond my reach. But it is that way. And it is terrible. And their friendships are lost. Careers are now manipulated and toyed with. And they're not going to be able to do anything about it. And they're not going to do anything about it. anything about it. anything about it. anything about it. Do you feel hopeful or do you feel depressed and hopeless about where race relations are going? Oh, I feel very hopeful. I believe most people want to be positive in life and find meaning and so forth. And that's what we're all human beings. And that's what we're all sort of dealing with, with aspects of that. And I think, again, as I say, I grew up in a segregated world, went to segregated schools, went through the whole violence phase, went through black power. I was blacker than thou and so forth. But somehow or other, I think. At the end of the day, one of the people said it very clearly. Oh, he said people are people, white people need to feel another, find another way to be moral. Paul Ross, he said that. That was absolutely profound. That actually is profound. Yeah, because this way is going to set us back and has been setting us back. There's no way to go. Thank you both. Thank you for your honesty and for your courage, both of you. It's wonderful to see you again. The film is called White Guilt. You can find it at whiteguiltfilm.com. And we are very, very grateful that it was made and that we have Shelby and Eli. Thank you both. We are back tomorrow. And actually, tomorrow is going to be an interesting show, too, because we've got a very famous ace agent in Hollywood, Ari Emanuel, for the show. And boy, is that going to be a fascinating one. Among other things, I will tell you the backstory between Ari Emanuel and yours truly. And we will get all the tea about Markle and all the other Hollywood celebrities that he's represented. Looking forward to that. Thanks for listening to The Megan. Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.