The transcription explores the documented history of U.S. government mind control programs, notably MK-Ultra, which ran from the 1950s through the 1970s. These programs involved the use of drugs, hypnosis, electric shock, and isolation to create split personalities and covert agents capable of carrying out assassinations or espionage. Evidence from declassified military and CIA documents—such as the 120+ drugs tested on over 1,500 subjects—reveals a systematic and large-scale effort to manipulate human behavior. Key figures like Lee Harvey Oswald, Charles Manson, and Robert F. Kennedy are linked through these programs, with theories suggesting they were either patients or participants in mental conditioning. The narrative highlights real-world cases, such as the alleged LSD use on Frank Olson, the connection between psychiatrists like Louis Jolly West and the Oklahoma City bombing, and the role of psychological manipulation in shaping criminal behavior. The author argues that such practices were not just theoretical but actively implemented, with documented cover-ups and suppressed records. The story extends to modern implications, such as the Epstein case and the possibility of elite-level psychological conditioning in high-profile figures. While the details remain controversial and often unverified, the core idea—that powerful institutions may have systematically conditioned individuals for covert operations—is grounded in public records and investigative journalism. The tone remains skeptical yet grounded, suggesting that while full transparency is lacking, the evidence strongly points to a deeper, more troubling layer of state-sanctioned psychological experimentation.
Why would the government program American citizens to murder other American citizens? Well, that's the question. So you have documented projects called MK-Ultra and other kind of variations of mind control creating splits and multiple personalities, careers and spies, humanitarian candidates, assassinate world leaders. They use whoever they could get their hands on, hypnotizing them, brain electrode implants, electric shock, creating the super spy. This stuff is shocking. The US Army released a list of 120-ish different drugs that had been used for mind control testing. 1,500 people times 120 different drugs. It's a lot of people. When you get into the documents, you find out this guy is connected to this guy, this guy is connected to that guy. It's this whole network. Lee Harvey Oswald used the supposed loan gunmen. Probably wasn't the loan gunmen when it comes to assassinating JFK. Jack Ruby killed Lee Harvey Oswald. So he probably was an MK-Ultra patient before having shot Lee Harvey Oswald. Who doesn't remember shooting something? Sir Hanser Han to this day says that he has no recollection of having shot R.F.K. Well, what do you remember about shooting if you're willing to talk about that? I was obviously I was there, but I don't remember the exact moment. I don't remember pulling my gun. Then you have a guy looking at the bag, who's an MK-Ultra patient, Manson, who's an MK-Ultra patient. These people are committing a horrific act. You think that my mind is like you're mine, but it isn't. This is really creepy. I wonder if the same thing happened with Epstein. The thing is it's not just some crazy conspiracy theory. It's actually possible. Can I give you my crazy Epstein MK-Ultra theory? Oh, you'll be of trouble if you don't. 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I'm here with Dr. Colin Ross who blew my mind with just a really kind of bombshell crazy book. It's called CIA Doctors. I brought you a copy, actually. Thank you. And well, here's my copy. And other copy. Yeah, amazing. Well, thanks. I'd love a second and I'd love to hand it as many of these out as possible to as many people as as you know, I can because it's over a million. Okay, perfect. Yeah, just give me an affiliate fee. But truly, this stuff is shocking. You have documented the kind of medical malpractice of a whole host of psychiatrists who are either officially or unofficially associated often with CIA and projects called MK Ultra and a lot of the derivatives and sub compartments and other kind of variations of that mind control largely. And it talks about dissociating personalities, creating splits and multiple personalities so that you can send careers and spies, create meinsuring in candidates, assassinate world leaders. It is mind blowing and it's jarring to say the least. Well, and the thing is so I'll give you a background, personal background a little bit. So I grew up in Canada, medical school, psychiatry training worked in Canada for a while and then moved here equals Texas in 91 to an on my specialty is multiple personality equals dissociative identity disorder. And so I was in a program there at a hospital up in Plano and two or three months in one of the patients who had multiple personalities comes up with this little sheath of papers and all paranoid and scared and hands them to me. And I don't want these to take these. And I look at them and I go, hmm MK Ultra, first I've heard of that. That's how I got into it by this woman handing me this pile of papers. Otherwise, wasn't interested in all about it. I thought the search for the manchurian candidate was some kind of movie or something, but it wasn't really sure. We and it is a movie. It's I think 1961, Frank Sinatra, and it discusses the creation of this assassin, essentially post-Korean war that China, you know, Manchuria is this northeastern part of China. And it's based on a book from the fifties. There you go. So fiction, Hollywood, entertaining, and a story. So what I did was I read a couple of books that existed. There was no published like mainstream journal type papers. And then I was down in northern Virginia for conference in 92. And I corresponded with the CIA, which was like pre-internet back in the era. And they gave me an address to come to to read the MK Ultra papers. So I met the conference hotel. This is just a crazy side story in itself. Walk out, get in a taxi. And it turns out the taxi drivers telling me his story of he was a police officer in Afghanistan before he moved to the United States. I wonder if this is a coincidence that this guy is dragging me. And then he goes, would you like to go through the grounds of the Pentagon on the way? Oh, sure. Okay. And then he says, well, what are you? Where are you going? What are you doing? Oh, I'm just going to meet with some people. Trust me off at this building that it's very nondescript. You can't tell what it is. I walk in there. And I mean, this civilian guy is nothing to do with military. And there's a whole bunch of military guys in uniform. One science is a secure line DIA only, another one is secure line CIA only. I walk up to the desk. Hi, I'm here to read some documents. And the guy gives me a look like, no, here's one of these guys here. Sign in. And the woman comes down after 10 minutes, maybe get in the little jam elevator with a bunch of guys in uniform and bunch of guys. So I don't know who they are. Go up to 5th floor, 7th floor, whatever it was. Get off. Walk down the corridor. And there's like a submarine door with she has a key code in. And then another door. And then we're in a small office and a sign of peace paper. Walk over here through another one of those doors into a room where there's a cart with all the 149 M guilt or projects there. And 15,000 pages of documents had to read them all, which took a while. Thank God you did all this because it's a really comprehensive book. And it clearly touches kind of close to the metal as far as what actually transpired and what went on. And if you really want to kind of understand what these psychiatrists were doing, how they were communicating with CIA, this book is great. So just real quick for the audience, you give a little context as to how you got into this topic. What's your day job? Psychiatrist. Okay. And you have no affiliation with MK Ultra. I assume. Okay. Course people go, oh yeah, that's what he says. I'm just a civilian guy. Okay. So I know lots about all these documented facts. Yeah. And I have this pile of documents.
But I don't have any insight or knowledge about stuff currently at all, which is kind of disappointing in a way. Yeah, well, the trail goes dark in 1975 with the church commission where all this malfeasance, you know, in the CIA, not just mind control stuff was investigated, and there was this kind of large reform. Let's go back to the very beginning of cowboy intelligence interventionism in the human body. So I want to talk about, you know, talking China 3000 BC or no, no, no, at least in the American context. So let's talk about the Tuskegee experiment because that for people who are in their minds, they're like, how could the government ever do something like this? It's just seems so horrific and beyond what they would ever do. I think this is a really good jumping off point. That's why there's a chapter in the book about Tuskegee. So one of the skeptical things is you could never do all that stuff and keep it secret. And if it was known, it would get shut down. So Tuskegee, which is a town in the Southern United States, 1932. The public health service was the organizing entity, surgeon general signed off on it. All these top medical people were where. And I've got a one of the papers I copied is called side effects of syphilis in the male Negro is the title of the paper. So give people context on just high level what happened because it's so shocking. They recruited 400 black rural mostly literate guys who had syphilis and then prevented them from getting treatment. All the way till it was shut down in 1972 because a reporter blew whistle on it. So it was studying the effects of untreated syphilis and the astounding medical discovery was people would get sick and die earlier. Yeah, shocker, shocker, pretty, pretty, pretty crazy. So you have that obviously occurring. You have really radiation experiments. You know, how does radiation interact with the physical body is all documented 100% there's all kinds of like on the other things I've heard I suspect but right now we're just 100% documented. So Clinton had a report in the late 90s on radiation experiments. It's like pretty thick. A couple of interest stick. And in there describes a whole bunch of stuff including I think it was seven HP seven was his name, which means human product seven. This is guys they did radiation experiments on. So and this is in one of the Harvard hospitals in Boston. He comes into the ER unconscious in a coma. The inject them with plutonium. And he dies without ever waking up not from the plutonium just whatever happened with them. So they're just how does it go through his kidneys, how's it excreted they're studying that. Jesus. So if the guy arrived in a coma, I'm guessing he didn't give informed consent, right. Okay, so let's get to MK ultra or just mind control generally. When did the idea of mind control cross the minds of American leadership? What's documented is in the second world war the because people have been manipulated controlling people forever, right. So just making it government organized sophisticated scientific doctors involved that's at least in the second world war. So 1941 or two all this intelligence agencies which are kind of scattered all over the place in the US were brought under the umbrella of the Office of Strategic Services, which is the OSS. And then the OSS was disbanded at the end of the war. And then in 1947 the CIA was created and a lot of the OSS guys just moved over there. So there's a guy named GH Esther Brooks, who's another he's a chapter in the book Colgate College upstate New York. He published a book in 1943 on hypnotism in a paper in 1971 or two in a magazine describing creating the super spy. And I have copies of his contract with the war department back in 43 or so. Him corresponding with MK Ultra top secret cleared contractors inviting them to Colgate College corresponding with them co publishing with some of them giving talks on the super spy at US Army conferences inviting the number two or three guy and the FBI to Colgate College to a conference. And of course, wanting back and forth to J Edgar Hoover from 30s to 60s, I think it was. This is all totally documented. So he doesn't describe his methods very much, but he says he gets a susceptible guy. This is all on the published material puts them through some sort of conditioning, which he doesn't really describe in any detail. And then he describes, which is also in the MK Ultra documents, he describes hypnotic code word that's implanted, which was the moon is clear. So he brings this Army guy in or the he assigns it to the Colonel, the Colonel brings in this Army guy gives him assignment to take some career materials over to Tokyo. And then says the moon is clear, outcomes the artificially created identity created by Esther Brooks gives him whatever the information is sends the guy over to Tokyo. The officer on the far end says, oh, thanks for the documents, the moon is clear. The secret message is transmitted responses implanted switch back to the regular guy, he goes back home. This explicit clear detail is described. And then in the CI created in 47, Bluebird and Artichoke were the precursors of MK Ultra, which started in 1950. And in those documents, it describes experiments where they use secretaries and whoever they could get their hands on hypnotizing them, getting them to do tasks and assignments, and then having them easier for that. It was all described in great detail. So the idea is if you could compartmentalize a person from an aspect of themselves, you can get that compartmentalized aspect to do whatever you want. And you can create a trigger to move somebody from their normal generic personality into this kind of secret career person. And in the documents, it describes words, verbal trigger, touch in the mentoring candidate book and movie, it's a playing card. So it can be anything that becomes a trigger. Yeah, okay. So you have Bluebird, you have Artichoke. Then we got MK Ultra, which then runs into the early 60s. That's rolled over to MK Search, which runs into the early 70s. What is MK? There's speculation about that, but I don't know for sure. Some people think it's mind control. But why MK, why K? So you can sound scary in German. Oh, get control. Oh, Jesus. Yeah, that's weird. And what were some of the earliest experiments that even like tipped US intel officials off that this was even possible in the documents that I have the GHS books, you know, pitched his expertise to the CIA early in the 50s. Yeah, I read this book called The Controllers by Martin Cannon and he talks about estimates bragging about this sort of thing. So, okay, fascinating. He clearly liked to brag. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Who in the American government and intel community kind of championed this idea at the time, kind of post World War II, that we should be experimenting with this. The director of the CIA signed a Bluebird into operation in April 1952, three months before the Korean War started in June. And then the disinformation cover story was, oh, we were just reacting to what the communist Chinese were doing, but it was already in place offensive and defensive before the Korean War started. So the directors of the CIA were all knew it was going on. The top guy was Sydney Gottlieb for him, Keltler, who's an interested character in and of itself. And so he was kind of the organizer of me and character. Get the year 50-50 something. There's a guy in Fort Detrick in the chemical warfare division named Frank Olsen. And he was starting to have a little problem with his conscience and was kind of maybe going to become a whistleblower. So, Sydney Gottlieb invited him to a party somewhere outside the Washington DC area. And he was given a dose of LSD and went through the cure. And then he had sort of a bad trip, but that in self is a cover story. because the story was. As a result of this being mentally ill, they didn't mention the LSD. He jumped out of a hotel window, the statler hotel, the 10th floor undied. But actually, Harold Abranson, who's involved in M. Kiltcher, who's a doctor, was involved in the story. And there's a guy named Pierre Lefeet, who had literally like 20 aliases, which are all a student of book. The last name of one of his aliases was Hydele. Alex Hydele was the Harvey Oswald's alias. What? And Lee Harvey Oswald and Pierre Lefeet both worked at the Riley Coffee Company in the same period, 60 to 63. So this is all some secret way up of something. Do you think Lee Harvey Oswald could have been an M. K. ultra patient? Very well. He could have been. Oh, wait, so just don't know that he was, but he very easily could have. So let's back up. So Frank Olson is working on biological warfare at Fort Detrick, as part of M. K. Naomi pushed out of the hotel. Pushed out of the hotel window. Pierre Lefeet. By Pierre Lefeet, I believe Frank Olson's son is named Eric Olson, and he investigated this and realized the window was actually too small for him to, he couldn't have jumped out of this thing. He must have been pushed. And the family just bought the story, but then they read one paragraph in a Rockefeller Commission report, 73 or somewhere in there describing exactly what happened to their dad, saying that he was dosed with LSD. So that's how they got on it, got lawyers. And there's a photograph of the family in the Oval Office of the White House with the president giving them the $700,000 compensation check. Jesus Christ. He was all blown wide open. Yeah. And Sidney Gottlieb, on record, you know, is great biography of him called Poisoner and Chief. And he's known as kind of almost the U.S. version of Joseph Mangola and like just kind of cowboy border science, like, you know, human subjects testing. He was head of the technical staff services for the CIA, technical services division. Technical services division. Sorry, TSD. What was, there was also TSS though, I believe, but anyways. Yeah. I think that was, it was the same thing with a different name. Yeah. Okay. So, okay. But I want to, I don't want to let up on this Lee Harvey Oswald, who's supposed to loan gunman, who now everybody kind of knows probably wasn't the loan gunman when it comes to assassinating JFK in November of 1963, I have a document that's part of the Bluebird Artichoke papers, I think. But one of those, there's multiple programs, Project Often, MK Naomi, there's like five or six of them, all parallel. The document is one intelligence officer ready to another intelligence officer that after 63, no, before 63, that Lee Harvey Oswald's mother has gotten in contact with the guy, because Lee Harvey Oswald's mother is concerned that somebody's been impersonating him in Europe. Well, it's just suspicious stuff going on and then the other main suspicious thing about the story is, okay, so Marine guy, Defector, Russia, and then we just let him back in. Don't put him under surveillance or story, nothing to see here. Well, then he goes and works at 544 Camp Street in New Orleans, and the guy who owns that building is an FBI investigator named Guy Bannister, so that's strange. I believe he was implicated, and he, Lee Harvey Oswald had the gun of, he almost assassinated somebody six months earlier or something, but Walker is such a lousy shot that he didn't kill the guy. Yeah. In the gun military guy, Walker. Yeah, Walker. Right. Yeah. There's so much off about that whole story, and then he gets a job at the Texas book depository, and the woman who owns that, or the woman who he's like living with is Ruth Payne, and she's very close with Mary Bancroft, who's Alan Dulles is mistress, Alan Dulles is the director of the CIA. So there's so many. Ruth Payne is very tied in. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then the guy who owns the Texas bird depository is a guy named Harold Bird, and he was, I think, related to Richard Bird who did Operation High Jump, who's headed towards Antarctica, and might have ran into like flying saucers, a sort of weird lure around that. But Harold Bird won, you know, some award for the Civil Air Corps from Curtis Lemay, and I believe was the bird family was close with LBJ as well, and there, you know, reasons to believe that LBJ might have had something to do with the assassination of JFK, obviously, he was a ruthlessly political guy. So that's the sort of politics, conspiracy side of things. It's the same thing when you get into the documents. You find out documented documents. This guy is connected to this guy. This guy is connected to that guy. It's not just two guys at an office running the show. What are the, let's set the landscape as far as what are the modalities they are testing? So clearly hypnotism is one of them. Is there like a lecture of shocking, right? It's like there's all kinds of stuff, brain electrode implants, electric shock, a whole bunch of different drugs, classical sensor deprivation, isolation, basically they just kind of like through everything at the wall to see what would stick. Yeah. It's very, I was going to say, Helter Skelter was probably not a good choice of term for this. So in 75 or 6 at committee hearings, the general council for the US Army released a list of 120-ish different drugs that had been used for mind control testing by the Army. And they admitted to 1500 LSD subjects, and there's videos of those online still, and sometimes it seems like they're admitting to 4000, but if we do 1500 people times 120 different drugs, it's a lot of people, right? That's pretty egregious. What did they discover worked of all of those modalities where they're things that worked better than others where they're different use cases for the different modalities? So on mentoring candidate, they just pooped that totally, yeah, it's not possible to do that. We never use those people, which is just straight-up lie. It's just a straight-up lie, and we'll get into some examples that kind of prove that that's a straight-up lie. Well, why don't we just get into that? So what's a good example of somebody becoming a Manchurian candidate? And Manchurian candidate is a compartmentalized trained assassin that you could trigger somebody to become an assassin. Why are they called Manchurian candidates? So there's another document in the files there where CIA officer, writing to another CIA officer, says he's concerned about reports, this Korean war stuff, that a group of GI's going through a zone in Manchuria were captured and hypnosis was used on them. That's the plot of the Manchurian candidate in CIA documents before the book was written or published. It's not just pulled out and over. Might take on all this in terms of the politics and the ethics is, the CIA military would be negligent and guilty of dereliction of duty if they didn't look into this, didn't have expertise because obviously these kind of people would be run at us by terrorists for an intelligence agencies. So give me some of the early psychiatrists that were kind of pioneering these methods. So again, this is all documents for sure. Within MK culture, which is the same in other programs, there's kind of three categories of projects. There's 149 of them total. A third of them are just straightforward chemical procurement industrial contracts. A third of them, the investigator, who's some professor somewhere, is unwitting, means he doesn't know what CIA money because it's funneled through a front organization, which they called a cut out. And then a third of them roughly are clear to top secret they know what CIA money. So two top secret cleared guys were Martin Orn and Jolly West. So Martin Orn being, and it says in the documents, the purpose of the project that says the amount of money and so on, and the year, the purpose was studying hypnotic and dissociative states. So for sure they were working on that. And Martin Orn was aware of GHS to Brooks and back and forth. So Jolly West is famous for several different things. One is killing an elephant at Oklahoma City Zoo with a dose of LSD. He also was sort of involved in the UCLA violence project, which was when Reagan was the governor. The idea there was to implant electrodes in prisoners' brains. And then when they released sex offenders, track them. And if they go outside the allowed perimeter, send them a signal in parallel.
them, temporarily. And that was shut down before it got started. But Louis Jolene West was involved in that. He interviewed Timothy McVeigh, who called him a city bomber. So here's the Oklahoma City bomber. Louis Jolene West is over in LA. There's lots of psychiatrists everywhere. By random chance, they had Louis Jolene West come and invest interview Timothy McVeigh. Why do you think he interviewed the Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh? Legend has it that in 1943, the Navy tried to teleport a ship in what's now known as the Philadelphia experiment. And it kind of worked. It disappeared, reappeared, and then half the crew got atomically fused into the ship's walls. Others just vanished. No one was where they were supposed to be. Talk about a breakdown in communication. And you know who was leading the whole project? My favorite, the mid-century anti-gravity inventor, Thomas Towns and Brown, who literally had a nervous breakdown that year due to the very poor communication among the team members. You know what that sounds like. Your team, before you had quo. This year, upgrade your system to a workspace that keeps your team from shattering across dimensions. If you've ever tried to schedule a meeting across five time zones and six platforms, you know the absolute horror of losing people to the ether. That's why today's episode is brought to you by quo, spelled Q-U-O. The smarter way to run your business communications. It's a single streamlined command center for calls, notes, transcripts, chats, even AI summaries. In all in one shared reality, yours. No vanishing, no fusing into calendars, just your team, fully entangled and synced across time zones, timelines, even caffeine levels. Make this the year where no opportunity and no customer slips away. Try quo for free, plus get 20% off your first six months when you go to quo.com/jessie. That's q-u-o.com/jessie. Quo, no missed calls, no missed customers. Now back to the show. This is all public domain. McVeigh said when they took them to Tinker Air Force Base, they removed a computer chip from his buttock. What? This is all this is not conspiracy theory. This is facts that I got out of public domain. Was he? Did he have any criminal background? Where do you think he was implanted with this thing? Like was he at UCLA? Because Jolly West was obviously head of psychiatry at UCLA. Was he? Were there any connections between him and Jolly before the bombing? Not that I know of. But they were moved. Wouldn't have to be him. I mean, it could be there's lots of people in the military, right? They were moved a computer chip from his buttock and weird. Which means they know exactly where he was every minute of every day up to the time of the bombing. And then you hear things like Charles Manson. Responsible for the most famous murders, the Tate Lobby Enke murders, Sharon Tate famous actress at the apex of her career, murdered in cold blood while pregnant with Roman Polanski's, I don't know, son or daughter. And we now know from Tom O'Neill's amazing book chaos. Very amazing book. Amazing book. And just hard headed journalism over decades. He started as like this, you know, beat reporter, like looking into, you know, it was like the anniversary of the Manson murders. He was just going to do an article and then he met Vincent Bugliosi, who was the lead prosecutor on the case who wrote the book's Helter Skelter and realized, oh my god, this narrative is entirely off. It's all cover story. It's all cover story and realized that Manson in 1967 was going in consistently to the hate-ashbury free medical clinic in San Francisco. Well, you mean the one that Louis Jolly and West was on? Exactly. And Jolly West had an office there. And then you have this like transformation of this guy from this petty criminal who's being caught and released to this like sex god cult leader musician, you know, in LA who's like living with one of the beach boys. And it's just this like, you know, day and night sort of thing. So I guess the meta question here is if you have a guy like Manson who's an MKL trepation, then you have a guy like McVeigh who's an MKL trepation, these people are committing horrific acts. Why would the government, like the CIA, like a guy who had top secret clearance for the CIA, Jolly West, or any of these people program American citizens to murder other American citizens? So probably because their ethics are a little off. But we don't know. It could be that Jolly West was just sort of a secondary character of the show because he's not going to be the only mentor and candidate creator on the planet. Can you create a chain of Manchurian candidates? So this is really creepy. But what if the psychiatrist themselves is a Manchurian candidate and they are doing treatments that they're not even aware of to their patient? I know, but how does anybody know? I mean, you would you document all these people who are cutouts and not even like, you know, connected explicitly. And then what if they're themselves compartmentalized? So as I always say, we know the tiny tip of the iceberg. The whole iceberg is just who knows what's going on down there. It's exactly like the Epstein story, right? Yeah. So we know it exists. We know it's a trafficker. And we know he supposedly killed himself. He either killed himself or was murdered jail. Who else was prosecuted? Him and his girlfriend. That's it in the United States. Just just his girlfriend. Who's gotten the heat? Now it's right now, Prince Andrew. Yeah. But some expendable form. Yeah. None of the people who actually committed the crimes. And then all the people in the documents all happen to not go to the not commit any crimes. You know, most of them say we didn't go to the island. It's absolutely preposterous. Okay. I have a crazy question about him. Do you think he do you think he was an MK Ultra patient? I have no idea. But the thing is it's not just like some crazy conspiracy theory. It's actually realistically possible that any and a whole bunch of these guys were. Can I can I give you my crazy Epstein MK Ultra theory? Oh, you'll be a trouble if you don't. Okay. So Manson, if you look at who he modeled his life off of, it was stranger in a strange land, Robert Heinlein, this like 1968 or nine bestseller sci-fi book. Yeah. I believe he calls his son Don Michael Valentine, who was like the lead character in the book. And he even calls his parole officer, a guy named Roger Smith, I believe he calls him Jubal. Jubal Harsha was this protector character in this book. Manson sent you an email. I don't know if you saw it. Oh, I don't. You know the TV show FBI? Oh, you did. Yeah. What was this again? So that it's a fiction about FBI and they're always getting the bad guys. And there's the woman who sort of like the head, but the actual operational guy who's always you know checking stuff and looking on the screen and assigning people to go here and there. His name is Jubal Valentine. Well, there you go. A mashup of two names in stranger of a strange land. It's not random. That's not random, clearly. So whether it's just some screenwriter with a sense of humor who read that kind of stuff or well, this is where it gets really creepy. I'm like, do you think that LSD was given to Manson or he was dosed up made to be extremely impressionable? We know that on a record at the time, there's a program called Operation Midnight Climax, where actually it's a sub project within haven culture. Okay. Operation Midnight Climax is sort of an informal name for it, but it existed. So it existed and they were dosing up hippies off the street in the hate Ashbury putting them behind a, you know, one way mirror and then viewing them, you know, with prostitutes and stuff. How they behave and here's a wrinkle on that story. So that was mostly in San Francisco, a little bit in New York. The guy who was sort of running that was a former whatever the DA was called before, can't remember the name of it before it was called the DA. So he was involved in various things that had to do with intelligence. So he was running it and he's quoted as saying his name was George White, something along the lines of where else could a good American boy rape, mortar and kill with impunity? Jesus Christ. That's what he said in public. That was the head of the equivalent of the DA at the time, the drug enforcement agent. He was the head of Operation Midnight Climax. I know, but then he became the head of the DA. It's not a low level. So none of these guys the same with the psychiatrists. They're not just some, you know, off the grid person in the basement somewhere. These are top psychiatrists, top government people.
Top secret clearing. - So creepy. Okay, so here's my question. - Okay. - If they're doing stuff like that, what I think is if you have a guy who's a literate who's modeling his life off the book, he can't read the book, but the book becomes the template for his life, stranger in a strange land, Charles Manson, he was probably read the book while dough step on LSD or ketamine or something. - Could be. - I don't know, speculating. But if that's the case, I wonder if the same thing happened with Epstein because Epstein started at Dalton school, which was prep school in New York. For no apparent reason, wasn't qualified to work there. - He jumped from North or 300 million in a blink. - Yeah, well that, so that was Dalton and then Bear Stern and all the other stuff, but even Dalton, I think he was engaging in underage relations with his students at the time, was unqualified for that job, he was like this street kid, and gets the job there. I believe the guy who gives him a job is a guy named Donald Bar. And Donald Bar was a former highly cleared Navy guy and he wrote a book called Space Relations and it's all about using underage sex as compromise. But it's about this guy that is going to another planet and then ends up being groomed by this other woman and the woman almost could be like Elaine or like one of his handlers or something. So you have another case where it's like his life seemed to be modeled off the book. And so I wonder if there was some sort of like weird screening of, he was made to be very impressionable and then he was, this book was somehow the model or template for his life. Here's where it gets even crazier. Donald Bar's son is William Bar. William Bar was the attorney general under Trump and under Bush 41. Under Trump, when Epstein got arrested and as the acting attorney general, he went and visited Epstein's jail cell and met with his cell mate, this guy, a Frank Stone Reyes, who mysteriously died six months later. What an acting attorney general ever visits the jail cell of a random person who's committed a crime, that's crazy. But here's where it gets crazier. Bill Barr was the CIA intern in 1974, 1975, around the church committee. He was a Senate CIA intern. - Cool. - So as far as like obstructing justice and possibly deleting records, you know, around MK Ultra, like that would be the perfect place to do it. - The story on the MK Ultra records is, they were all destroyed by Richard Helms and Cindy Gottlieb. But they somehow found seven boxes of documents in a storage facility somewhere. And then those are the documents that God released eventually. So that's called a limited hangout. That's actually the CIA's term, which is a little bit of information out, cover up the greater information. It's a standard operating strategy. - So I wonder if Bill Barr was like covering up for his dad's, you know, horrible. This is crazy speculation. I'm speculating I have no idea. But it's fair, it's a weird fact pattern. - Have you ever heard of a woman named Patty Hearst? - William Randolph Hearst's daughter. - Who's kidnapped by the Libyan, somebody needs liberation army? - Tell me the story. - So William Randolph Hearst, for people that don't know, is the model for Orson Welles, Citizen Kane. He is the premier kind of publisher of, you know, the biggest newspapers, San Francisco Chronicle and stuff, and you know, in the US and specifically California. - Right. This is connected to Jim Jones and Jones Town as well. - Okay. - So Patty Hearst boyfriend, who's near, I just forget now, he was observed and that was reported in public domain, on site at the People's Temple location in Yucaya, California, before they moved to South America. Then Donald DeFries, who is a petty criminal, same thing, couldn't read a book. He was transferred within the prison system to a new location where he walked out of the prison into the public. And then a psychological warfare expert with the army in the Vietnam War, came over under cover of the Black Cultural Association, met with him repeatedly, gave him his codename of CINQUE V. And then lo and behold, he kidnaps Patty Hearst. So the story is that the Symbianese Liberation Army came into the apartment of Patty Hearst and the boyfriend, knock the boyfriend out, so he's just an innocent bystander, who happened to be at Jim Jones three months earlier. And then they take Patty Hearst and they terrorize her, sensory deprivation, sensory isolation, hold her in a closet for weeks on end. She now has a new identity, Tanya, who participates in a bank robbery. Jesus, she's convicted. And then at trial, the people testifying that she's been mind controlled, include Louis Jolly and West. It's just that everything's so interwoven and interconnected. - So weird. - And she gets pardoned by, can't remember which president. No, Jolly West is like this bizarre figure who, he's like Forest Gump or something, pops up in all these places, like hiding the truth. Like he, you know, he saw Jack Ruby. So Jack Ruby killed Lee Harvey Oswald and he sees him in his cell, right, for 24 hours or something. And then he comes out, does a press conference, says Jack Ruby's gone crazy. And literally that was the breaking point. Actually, he courted to West shot Oswald while having an epileptic seizure. - What? - That's what, that was what he said. Because he didn't remember having killed Lee Harvey Oswald, right? So he probably was an MKL tripatient before having shot Lee Harvey Oswald. Who doesn't remember shooting somebody? - Serons are on. (laughs) - We're just jumping around here. So that's the, - He's claimed Amnesia for that. - So the guy that killed the supposed, but not really lone gunman of JFK, MKL tripatient, and then the guy that killed JFK's brother, RFK, it was a famous presidential candidate, attorney general under JFK. He was also probably an MKL tripatient who I think is still alive. And to this day does not, says that he has no recollection of having shot RFK, Robert F. Kennedy. - Yep. - It's so crazy. - One of the, - Can't remember the title of the book, but one of the RFK very well-researched books. There's a photograph of the Los Angeles County corner with a ruler, and he's measuring and counting the bullet entry holes, because he knows another person got hit, RFK got hit, and there's a certain number of, in the door jams and the walls. Those add up to more than the chambers in the supposed lone shooter's gun. - For a fact. - That's right. And I believe it was the same corner who saw JFK, who wasn't happy about the treatment of JFK's body before he examined it, and thought there was some malfeasance there. And I think it was a lot of gunshots, specifically from the back in RFK's case. And yeah. - This supposed to shoot us four, five, six feet in front. - That's right, sir. - The shot was close to range from behind. - That's right. - I believe Robert F. Kennedy, 'cause I think he was giving a speech or something, falls back and grabs this guy behind him, and falls down on this guy. Back guy was a Lockheed skunkwork spotty guard, named Eugene Thane Caesar, and I believe if you asked Robert F. Kennedy, who's obviously now, you know, Health and Human Services Secretary, he will say, I think Eugene Thane Caesar, that Lockheed security guard, killed my father. - He would say that, or he has? - He would say that. He would say that. I think he believes that. And why, I'm not doubting him, but why do you think that's what he believes? He must have said something. - Oh, I believe he, no, I'm saying I believe that. His publicly said this. - His publicly said this. - A 24-year-old Palestinian man named Saran Saran shot him with a 22 caliber revolver. He was hit three times. Five other people were wounded as well. - Well, I didn't, first of all, I would dispute that description of what happened. Okay, I don't believe that Saran's bullets ever hit my father. Oh, he was shot from behind by somebody who was standing behind him with a gun press between the two of them and firing. And that man was almost certainly Eugene Thane Caesar, who is a security guard who had been hired the day before. So, pretty wild, and I think he thinks it was all done.
at the behest of this guy, Bob Mayhew, who was the general counsel for Howard Hughes or like the right hand man for Howard Hughes, and it's all just so spooky. You have all these guys who are tied in with the 5412 commission at the time, the sort of interagency coordination group that I think originally starts out for, you know, if the government, if the president wants to do some spooky covert action, it's plausible deniability for him. It's interagency coordination. And it turns into this sort of runaway, you know, deep state faction that just, you know, has its own age really runaway or not really. There's always a question right? That's the other, yeah, you call it runaway, but maybe it is always plausible deniability for the president. Who knows? I mean, you do have this famous speech, obviously, Eisenhower gives, but we're of the military industrial complex and you have to wonder if he was referring to groups like that. But okay. So we're just, we're just knocking them down as far as sacred cow assassinations. And they just all seem to be related to MK Ultra. You know, one person that people wonder about all the time, not in the kind of political realm, but in the cultural realm is the icon John Lennon, you know, the lead singer of the Beatles, who was this obviously counter culture hero was probably viewed as a threat, you know, by J. Edgar Hoover and other people. Those guys are definitely unhappy about him. That's no. So, so tell me about his killer and was he possibly an MK Ultra patient? I don't know about who controlled him, but he was sort of like a low level guy without a whole ton of money, took off on a world tour. What's his name? Mark David Chapman. Mark David Chapman. He was in a psych hospital in Hawaii for a while. He comes back and there's, I can't remember the name of the biography, but in the biography of him, in great detail, it describes he had a whole bunch of people inside his head. Robert was the head guy. I mean, he had MPD D ID by description for sure, if that's all accurate. MPD for the audiences, multiple personality disorder, which was renamed to sociable identity disorder at 94. Did one of the personalities was it saying you have to kill John Lennon? That part's not known. So, why do we think that he possibly was MK Ultra and not just like, you know, MPM, you know, multiple personality disorder, you might associate with some sort of generic mental illness or something. Maybe could be don't for sure. Okay. So hard to say there, but it's it's not just wild out of nowhere theorize it. It's realistically possible that he could have been handled. Well, is there anything else? Any other evidence besides just having multiple personality disorder? Let's see. What's the, because I think in all the details or so many on what's the book that was published in the 50s? There was a trigger for him. Oh, catcher in the right catcher in the right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. JD Salad. Yeah. Yeah. So he went to a bookstore and got that book, which maybe was the trigger before doing the shooting. Hmm. Oh, interesting. Like the book triggered. Oh, Jesus. Maybe that is wild. Well, I think Sir Hanser hand going back to the Robert F Kennedy thing. I believe he was writing in his diary at the time, like must kill RFK or something like he had this sort of like, it was like he had been programmed. You can't, I've looked at that in a different books. You can't tell is it just psychotic, rambling, obsessing or is it programming? And he also like didn't, he had like memory lapses, right? Like didn't he have some like, he was traumatized in the Middle East as a kid, because there's a lot of war going on. His apartment was bombed and he saw some dismembered bodies and stuff. So he has a trauma foundation for being a dissociative guy. Speaking of trauma foundation, you read some of these Epstein files and you start to go beyond, this is just sick, you know, pedophile elite, powerful people fulfilling their bizarre fantasies and into a territory of their systematically conditioning, some of these young people and creating what used to call the trauma foundation so that these people are susceptible and impressionable to future sort of manipulation. Do you think there was some sort of undercurrent there with the Epstein thing? Well, first of all, it's a bunch of sex offender guys. There's huge financial part to it, sex trafficking. I mean, it's a multi-billion dollar industry, right? So there's their own personal sexual whatever. There's the money. There's the scoring points with the other guys and being high ranking in that subculture. And then who knows what else? Pretty, pretty bizarre. It's a weird world. You read that stuff and you're like, oh my God, like it really not only does it sort of vindicate the super conspiracy theorists like people who believed in pizegate because it looks like jerky and hot dog like these foods were like code words for children. And so it was just gross. Not only is it vindication for that, but it's vindication for people who I think viewed like the world more metaphysically and thought elite power structures weren't just vying for power, but maybe we're doing the bidding of some like evil entities above them. Like what would drive anybody to do these sorts of things? It's, you know, it's like, I think less wexner who was Epstein's like one of his closest associates. And I think, you know, you like provided him with a house in a high O and stuff and like, you know, yeah, piles of money. He was the Victoria Secret founder and CEO. So do we think this guy has access to women? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I mean, there you go. And then, but also I believe in the 80s or 90s less wexner's writing in his diary and he's talking about being haunted by a divak. A divak is, I think in Hebrew, it means demon. And so you get into these weird territory where it's like, you're not even doing this for your own sex, sadistic, twisted, you know, pleasure. You're doing this because you're doing the bidding of some higher, you know, even more evil thing. Now we're definitely outside the documents. Yeah, we are. We're outside regular psychiatry. Yes. So, but now you're into supernatural, multidimensional entities, which then takes us into aliens. Sure. Who knows? I don't pretend to know the answers to all this stuff. Well, speaking of supernatural entities, I know you're not interested in aliens at all. Not at all. It's not who cares. You know, maybe we'll get to that at some point. But no, it's funny. One of the people you mentioned in the documents, as far as, you know, psychiatrists deeply implicated MK Ultra is a guy named Michael Persinger. And do you know about his god helmet, the person your god helmet? Tell us about that. Well, there's Martin Orren, Jolly West, were on the board of the false memory syndrome foundation that was formed in 1992. And there's, if you ever watched a movie called Star Wars, there's the dark, right? Universal themes. Yes. So, 1980 comprehensive textbook of psychiatry that I studied is like the Bible of psychiatry. Three volumes. It's like literally this thick. Way at the back of volume two, there's a small section called topics of special interest, which is irrelevant stuff that we thought we'd throw in way at the back. And a chapter called Incessed, which is not a relevant topic in psychiatry, in that chapter, there's a reference to a 1955 study saying that incessed occurs in one family out of a million in North America. Those were the medical facts in 1980. So there's been massive cover up of childhood trauma, child of sexual abuse, sexual harassment on an rape. There's no rape crisis centers around. It was all completely irrelevant to the mental health of the population. Is the implication of these psychiatrists who are causing trauma being on this false memory foundation? Is it like they're gaslighting the people that they've traumatized by saying their false memories? Or like what's the? Well, I think it's, this is the speculation too. I'm going to speculate if you don't mind. Sure. I know you don't like speculation. I love speculation. Oh, I miss red that. Hard to tell. So I think there's, if you look at the people on the board and the people have been active in the false memory, what was that organization trying to do? For sure, for a fact, publicly stated, get rid of multiple personality. Nobody's diagnosing it. Nobody's treating it, discredit it, ridicule it, shut it down. So what were their motives? It wasn't just one thing. So there's a bunch of people who are sort of memory experts, and it doesn't fit with their model of memory that you can induce amnesia or even have amnesia just on your own as part of PTSD. So they don't like that. So they want to shut that down.
And there's, I think, a group of people who actually were mistakenly falsely accused of incest, so they want some organization to help them out. Then there's people who were actually incest perpetrators. They needed defense, so it's all false memories. And then there's a group of people who just think that's all but just stupid Freudian theory and we've grown past that and we want to shut down all that nonsense. And then there's Jolly West Martin Orn, that there are motives being to cover up the mentoring candidate programs, because therapists are starting to tune into multiple personalities, which didn't exist back in the day, aren't they? And we're just starting to hear stories of, I was taken to a military base, I was taken to a lab, I was spun around physically, did things with goggles, all kinds of experimental stuff to create all the personalities. So this is leaking out into public, so that better get shut down. So there's multiple motives there. You said spun around and disoriented? Yeah, it's all, what do you, if you go to Abu Ghraib, we're going to Anwar Bay, where we've all been by looking at photos, right? What do you see being done? Torture, food deprivation, sensor deprivation. Isolation, hooding, sitting in forced postures for hours, hours, hours, hours, hours, hours, at Abu Ghraib being forced to naked, do sex stuff with other male Muslim guys with a female US officer watching, mock dog attacks, electric shock, there's photographs of all this stuff. And insulting the religion and stomping, literally physically stomping on the destroy in the coronavirus. Why would, I mean, but doing that to our, it's horrible to do that to anyone, doing that to our own citizens feels even crazier. Well, so jumping back to Guentano Bay, why would we be doing all this stuff that's just a classical brainwashing mind control technology? So suspicion, they're actually trying to, like, Guentano Bay is actually a training breeding ground for entering candidate double agents who then get released. Wow. Go back home. Maybe. Oh, interesting. So it's like the, like worst case outcome is you inflict a lot of pain on the person. They give you vital information. You break them. The best case is that you can actually create some split personality or something and then send them back into their home turf, their home countries, Jesus Christ. That's gnarly, man. I mean, that makes sense. It makes sense. The odds that it's never been done anywhere seem slim to me. Well, yeah. No, I mean, that definitely has been, that's crazy. There's a little side story since I'm Canadian by birth. I've got two passports now. There's a guy named Omar Keater. I'm not quite sure how you pronounce his last name, who was a terrorist in the Middle East. I think it was Afghanistan. It was either a rock or Afghanistan. And he threw a grenade that wounded several American service guys. So how do you get his hands on the grenade? How old was he? 12. So 12-year-old kid, a platoon of US soldiers invades his village way up the middle of nowhere. There's a firefight. He gets shot. This is according to the US military. He's under rubble. He gets pulled out. He gets taken back to here and here it ends up at Guantanamo Bay because he's a non-terrorist and I don't know if it's true or not true, but they say that they are interested in him because his father may have communicated with Osalba Bin Laden. So we're going to hold a 12-year-old kid who's now 18, 1920 for almost a decade to try and get information out of him because we can't get that information out in a couple of weeks. And he's a terrorist. And then he gets released and goes back to Canada and Canada gives him 10 million and plays to stay. It's such stupid stories and such ridiculous behavior for what purpose? It's very weird. See, you think there's this ulterior motive of. I don't know if it's just Guantanamo, as you mentioned, cowboy craziness or. Yeah. there's some sort of ulterior motive or plan. What are the odds at a 12-year-old kid knows anything about anything? Speaking of careers that are split off from some hermetically sealed, almost encrypted part of themselves, that's carrying a message into deep foreign territory. One of the craziest stories from your book is about a woman named Candy Jones. Right. What's her deal? The control of Candy Jones is not autobiography, not autobiography. So she was a pin-up girl in World War II in the Pacific theater. Came back, was just kind of living a fairly regular life, nothing much going on. And then there's a guy who's not going to remember this name, either. And there's a guy who is a military intelligence guy who is living in the same building who kind of interacted with her a bit. And she ended up getting worked on by this psychiatrist, had a new identity that was doing career assignments and who knows exactly what kind of assignments. And then she wrote a whole sheet and a biographer wrote about that in detail. Did she. What were the career assignments? Where did she go? Philippines? I can't remember the whole list of places. It may be Taiwan, I think. Probably. It was over. Eastern Asia. Yeah. The gifted and talented education program in the United States. This often comes up as possibly related to some of these mind control experiments, but being done systematically on young people. You have a lot of people now coming out saying they had me drink a pink drink that erased my memory or I was told to stare at a sine wave and collapse the sine wave or look at a piece of metal and see how I mentally interacted with the metal, sometimes being spun around on people's vestibular systems being messed with. I think there's something called the G-lock or something like that. I don't know that. Have you heard anything about the gifted and talented education program? A few sort of floating rumors, that's about it. Okay. But people have told me, whatever the program was called, how did they get into it? Their dad took them over there because they had dirt on their dad because he was a sex offender and so on. Another route is after school programs, special school programs, and then the special school program got transferred over to the base. So I've heard those stories. Do you think any of this stuff, do UFOs ever come up in your research? Do you think any of this relates to UFOs? So I've actually touched on that a few times at risk of being dismissed as a UFO conspiracy nut, of course. You're in good company. Are you outranked me, actually? Yeah. Just a little level guy. You can look very sane next to me. I'm wearing a ridiculous shirt that says, believe, and alien on. I'm wide open to aliens. We know that there's like multiple, multiple, multiple, multiple reports of visual sighting from the ground, visual sighting from the pilot, simultaneous radar sighting from the ground, radar sighting from the jet, turning right angles at Mach 3. Turning up 80,000 feet in seconds, it's all documented. These things have been observed over and over and over, which maybe we can get the Roswell on a second here. So there's clearly craft and it's kind of like taking the lid off a little bit by little bit by little bit because it was all mockery, mockery, mockery, mockery. But now it's not mockery anymore. Why? Look at all those crazy UFOs anymore, we're talking about UAPs. So that's sort of a sanitizing, take the bad or off. And the military and the government are saying there's UAPs that are not from us. So okay, so is that cover story for some advanced program of our own. But it's not any technology that's anywhere near the public domain. So there definitely are UAPs flying around. Do they have biological occupants from other planets? Just based on that information you can't say for sure. But it's not just made up by nut cases thing. It's an officially acknowledged phenomenon by the government.
And if it's not, like it's not the Russians, it's not the Chinese, it's not us. Yeah. It was kind of run out of possibilities here. Well, also if you think of UFOs as this sacred tree, like a UFO itself is just kind of a byproduct. It's this like, you know, it's the tip of the iceberg, which is just this object that's flying in ways that we don't understand. And then if you think of that as the tip of the spear on like a deeper kind of worldview, metaphysical worldview that is just much more expanded than this kind of materialist reductionist, you know, kind of overly scientific view that we have today, I wonder if government or power structures think about people who are seeking truth and looking systematically into UFOs as some sort of like, you know, threat, because it's inherently kind of in a reverent search. It's you're looking for, you know, authority beyond the government or you're looking for, again, metaphysics, that's very kind of expanded. And so I do sometimes wonder if there are, there are initiatives in the government to kind of manufacture division and stoke conflict within the UFO community or instigate belief in sort of bizarre ways or so without having any evidence on sure there are. Yeah. Yeah, I'm sure there are. Just the way intelligence operations operate. Yeah. You're always sewing to stand back in one side, back in the other side. Yeah. And if you just see it as a huge theater distraction, what's it being distracted from? Well, it's because there really are aliens and somebody in the government is interacting with them or it's our own advanced weaponry that we want to keep a lid on. Yeah. I know. I know one or the other. I know enough to know that there's some aliens as a, you know, you are kind of being presumptuous by saying aliens as far as, you know, them being from another planet. And I'm saying not you. I'm saying anybody, I'm never presumptuous. And you're never presumptuous. Now you do stick with the facts. I don't. But, well, I just like to use facts as the base. I think that's good. What? That's what you have to do. That's what you have to do with these things. And I actually think it's irresponsible not to speculate if per what you said, you're being given little bits and pieces of information strategically per these limited hangouts. If you're not trying to figure out what's actually going on and you're just taking at face value what you're being given, that's an issue. If you're being given the data set by somebody who's trying to throw you off, do you have to sip on the Kool-Aid while you're doing that? Yeah. Well, that's the thing you have to sip on it and then say this Kool-Aid taste bad and spit it out or something. So it's a really tough, these things are tough to look into because the people that are the bad actors are often the sources of information. So it's a weird, it's a weird space. But yeah, I do wonder how much interaction the UFO stuff and the MK Ultra stuff is. I mean, okay. Why don't we, why don't, there's zero in the MK Ultra related documents. Yeah. It's not one word. The only connection, I think I can, yeah, the only connection I have is I believe in Jacques Vallet. Jacques Vallet is a famous French godfather. You're aware of him. Yeah. He's just amazing. UFO researchers. The basis for Francois Truffaut's character in Close Encounters of the Third Kind. He was jailing a Heinex assistant in Blue Book and he was also one of the kind of early pioneers of the internet. He helped build Arpenet under Doug Engelbart. He has these like series of diaries where he just writes about his meetings that he has and they're called for bin science and he is like, I think five volumes at this point. And he talked about, I believe, Sydney Gottlieb or some of his, some like people in the like the CIA, you know, technical staff services like that world, them having books on UFOs and trying to understand what's going on with them, but like not really understanding what's going on with them. So there's some sort of interest on the part of people who are clearly deeply implicated in the mind control stuff in the UFO stuff. And then that book I mentioned Martin Cannon controllers. He says abductions are just like alien abductions are just a smoke screen for MK Ultra. Like the most famous abduction was Betty and Barney Hill in 1961. They actually say, you know, in their hypnotic regression, the beings look like Nazis or whatever. So then you get all of these Operation Paperclip scientists brought over. There's a very cool ex files episode I don't remember the whole story, but the UFO crashes are something and the woman is being like manipulated and she's probably going to get an anal probe and everything by the aliens and then all of a sudden it's human beings. And then the boss guy says, okay, rinse her out. Right. So yeah, I mean, you know what? I think certain abductions have been that and then this is where it's so weird. It's kind of the perfect smoke screen for Intel because I also think there are real alien abductions. So the Betty and Barney Hill thing, I think was a genuine abduction, but also, you know, the other weird fact around that is Charles Douglas Jackson, who worked at, he was like head of, you know, part of the psychological strategy board and ran psychological warfare for the United States in the fifties. And I believe was that time magazine was responsible for the Zapruder film. So the missing frames in the JFK assassination video, like this guy was clearly sort of like the missing frames in the jail cell for Epstein. Exactly. The whole minute missing and the raw data crazy. So CD Jackson is meeting with the Betty and Barney Hill a few weeks after they get abducted back to Epstein's. Yeah. So what if there's, let's say it was accidentally missing, which is how slack is that operation. But okay, everything's fine. And a minute later, he's dead, you can't even die of a fixation in one minute, it takes longer. No, it's ridiculous. It's ridiculous. That case smells so bad. It's so obvious. And, you know, I don't know, it's funny to me to see a lot of like the podcast circuit is like all like up and arms now. And I'm like, we've known this for five years. It's like, just look at the facts, like it's so obvious, you know, not that they shouldn't be up in arms, but they should have been up in arms many years ago. But the human energy field, we've been covering so much dark stuff. And I think the positive element of this is that we all have these kind of bioelectric electromagnetic fields. And I think later MK Ultra stuff unfortunately deals with like chip implantations and stuff that is kind of freaky and weird. Getting implants in dolphins brains and guiding them to drop bombs is what? Who did that CIA military documented? No way. Being able to remote control a dolphin to drop a bomb? What's that the day of the dolphin? Yeah. Yeah. It's about John Lilly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So the mysterious, organized government organization comes over and starts jacking around with he's working with dolphins and giving them LSD, which John Lilly actually did. And then what they do is they get a dolphin, they attach the bomb to the dolphin. The dolphin is supposed to go under the camera, which is the vice president of the president's fishing boat and go tick release the thing that blows up. And then that gets all shut down. But the documents describe using brain electrode implant off he goes, control the route, drop the bomb off. That's described in the documents. Jesus Christ. There's so little veer into that before we get to the energy fields. And so in MK Ultra and related documents, there's implanting electrodes in animal brains to control their behavior. There's a guy Jose Delgado who's a neurosurgeon at Yale. He's got a published a book called Towards a Psychoscivilized Society and he says what we need to do is implant electrodes in the brains of the entire population, not counting the lead generals on the top politicians. And that's how we're going to make the society psychoscivilized. What? The stated in the book clearly. So the mark of the beast. And so there's photographs in medical journals. One is a 16 year old girl said electrode in her brain and Delgado, the technical events he made was you don't have to have the wire connected. You can use a remote transmitter to activate the electrode. So depending on which electrode is being activated, she's normal. She's strumming on her guitar. She's pounding furiously on the wall or she's just like out of it. This is photographs of this girl. And then in monkeys and one of the stupid cover stories is oh yeah, we were trying this on cats and we had the cat with an electrode.
We're sending it off into the world, but it ran off in front of a car and got killed. So we never did that again. So this is how it leaks into Hollywood as fiction, but it's actually fact. The, in its treatment of epilepsy is why we're putting electrodes at people's brains. All 100% documented. Then there's a guy in Tulane University, Robert Heath, psychiatrist, who's funded by CIA and multiple branches of the military. He's doing brain electrode implants and has the remote transmitter. He's carrying the well-known mental disease of homosexuality because according to the American Psychiatry Society, being sarcastic for anybody taking that, wasn't sarcastic if we jumped back in time to measure 72. Sure. Can you talk about attempts to program somebody's sexuality, turning somebody? Well, this Robert Heath guy will come back to Robert Heath at Tulane. Electroed in the gay guy's brain, exposed him to heterosexual pornography over and over and over and over to condition them. While you're stimulating the electrode to put them in a state of pre-Orgasmic arousal, so you're pairing arousal with heterosexuality. Towards the end, this is all published in mainstream medical journal that I've actually published in and myself. Towards the end, they brought in a female prostitute, had her have sex with the guy while their monitoring his brainwaves, and then they debrief him in the prostitute. She says, "Yep, he functioned well, normal." No way. And then to the paper is, so he was cured of homosexuality with only one relapse in the first six months. Jesus, enough of that. Only one. But that's what? That's in the mainstream literature. Well, just like the Tuskegee syphilis study is published in mainstream journal. That is crazy. That's crazy. So that's the crazy stuff that goes on in the psychiatry literature and in the official manual of psychiatry, little on the hidden stuff. Jesus, man. So we're just more, I mean, John Lilly, who we were talking about, the inspiration for the day of the dolphin, he would do, he kind of invented the isolation tank and he would take, you know, a lot of ketamine and would get into these dissociative states. And he even like, I think at one point summoned to this thing, he called the SSI, the solid state entity and would communicate, oh, yeah, communicate with this sort of alien intelligence. And he wrote a book called, I think, was it human programming and metaprogramming? I think so. So you just on the note of what you're saying, it just feels like humans are far more like programmable than we don't think of ourselves as suggestible. We think of ourselves as sort of fixed, but in fact, we're way more impressionable than we'd ever believed. Well, just take a look at Hollywood. In the 50s, we were hunting communists, some of whom were communists and a bunch of word. And like everybody was on board with, we got to clean up, clean up America here. So that was pretty unanimous. And now it's flipped to the opposite street where if you're not way over on the left, try finding work in Hollywood. Yeah, it's really hard. And so then that's just the programmability of people in general. They swing over here. They swing over there. Humans are extremely mimetic. And you know, you just sort of ideas are fashion statements. And you see it, especially on social media is like really amplifies this because it's a hall of mirrors. So if you're not like saying the thing that's like really popular right now, then you're sort of you're falling behind and you're not staying relevant or something. There's a guy in British Columbia. So me being originally Canadian, he just got fined. It was something like $750,000 for making just stating an opinion. Yeah. That there's only two genders and two sexes. That's the fine. Three quarters of a million dollars. That is so crazy. That is so crazy. So that's what's the difference between that and the McCarthy era. Do you think, do you think people like Jolly West tried to affect culture via celebrity? Like I actually, I met a woman who was Charlton Heston's daughter-in-law. She's a really sweet lady. And if you're out there, hello. And she, you know, Charlton Heston, obviously, you know, it's legendary actor. But Charlton Heston was this NRA champion. So he was this, you know, natural rifle association, you know, when shootings would happen, he would sort of be in the counter rally saying, you know, protect the second amendment, right to bear arms. Don't kill people, people. That's right. And that, you know, and if anything, it mitigates violence and all this stuff. And then I found out there's some data to support that in a reverse sense. There's fewer deaths at home from guns in how homes that don't have guns. Yeah. Well, hello. It's pretty obvious. That's a good stat. And for me, this is not, I moved from California to Texas. So I'm not, this is not a polemic on, you know, I'm not anti anti gun necessarily. But I do find it interesting that a guy in Jolly West, who's clearly programmed a lot of violence at high levels in the U.S. is best friends with the guy who's the head of the NRA and this gun champion. That seems interesting to me. Is there something there? You keep asking me questions as if I might know the answer. I don't know. You know, we're speculating. We're in kind of really murky territory. But well, obviously it's a huge industry, right? Yeah. So there's the financial part of it. There's the gun hoe, cowboy part. In Canada, I lived up in the Canadian Arctic. I probably killed two or three hundred time again, which is a type of gross that turns white in the winter. I owned a rifle. I never did shoot a moose, but I owned a rifle. So, you know, I was out in the woods walking around hunting, killing, eating in southern Canada. I shot lots of rabbits and cooked them and ate them. So I'm not, you know, look at kill the animals, type person. But the amount of gun violence in the United States, when you look at the graphs, like per hundred, the United States is up here. Unlike countries like down here. So this is so low to control. It's out of control. And this is what I'm getting at. And this is a really weird, deep, conspiratorial thread of which we've, you know, developed a few here. But, but it seems like the things Jolly West are involved with. And this cuts to Tom O'Neill's thesis with chaos is the construction of somebody like a Manson because you looked and talked and walked like a hippie. When counterculture was at its greatest threat to, again, people like Chad Groover, who were running the FBI at the time, the state department. Those guys were a little bit straight. What's that? They were a little bit straight. What do you mean? Chad Groover? I mean, they weren't hippies. Well, they were straight guys. Oh, that exact well, speaking of the, you know, kind of proverbial, you know, wasn't exactly totally straight. Well, he was across, he was into cross dressing and then all this compliment on him. Well, it's always, it's always a sort of narcissism of small differences weird thing going on. So, but the point like he had it out for counterculture, right? And so this is what Tom O'Neill concludes in his book is they're going to construct somebody that looks like a hippie in Charles Manson, who literally had, he was like this want to be artist. He has a song called Look at Your Game Girl. He's living with the Beach Boys. And then you have, you know, this, you know, famous quote by Joan Diddy and right after the murders, saying, you know, August, I think it was eight, 1968 was the, you know, the day that the, or maybe 1969, I don't remember, was the day that the 60s ended. The day that he, you know, committed the murders the next day, 60s ended, counterculture, hippie culture, all that stuff's over. So the threat is over if you're, you know, part of the establishment structure. And so you have to wonder, you know, again, with this connection with Charlton Heston and gun violence, was Jolly West specifically stoking symbolic violence, violence where you were creating local violence in order to move society in a specific teleology. Like if you, you look at certain violent things that happened now, they get amplified so much across social media, whether it's cow written house on the right or George Floyd on the left. I'm not making a comment on either of those things. It's not something I want to weigh in, do like both, both, you know, kind of, there's a very curious thing with George Floyd. Yeah. Obviously not a good guy. Yeah. Sure. He did deserve to die. It didn't deserve to die. It was killed by the police officer, but he was cranked up on cold, good headhark condition. For sure. But we should say it was a horrific video. And it would get any reasonable person to watch out. Yeah. So, but why select him as the poster child. He's. for a documented fact held a pistol to a black pregnant woman's abdomen while robbing our house. We want that guy to be our hero. - They're all sorts of-- - Yeah. - So does that show us an on purpose to set up the counter argument that he's an old good bad guy? Or are they just over look at or how is that operate? - Well, this is the thing. And I think in either of those cases, or you could come up with a million different examples of public violence, you know, violence that gets amplified across social media. Again, not making a comment on, you know, you could get an all sorts of like deep arguments as to, you know, who's the guy who's like, you know, I can't breathe and he was being choked out in Brooklyn. - Clearly it's way past time. - There's all sorts of police malfeasants in these cases. But I think if you're intel and you're viewing the effect of symbolic violence, there's something very powerful about that. And it's very powerful if you want to sway things on particular issues. And so I think the public should just be aware and not susceptible to the sort of, you know, artificial construction of some of these violent cases. - Good luck on that one. - I know. Yeah. - So here's a little slightly related. - We're saying all these things. And then it's like we're trending in the complete wrong direction as a society as far as our ability to make sense of any of these things. Like you go on Twitter, TikTok or Instagram and people's brains are being melted by this stuff. It's just debate. - No, it means shouting your feelings really loudly. - That's right. So yeah, it almost makes me feel like, 'cause I, so do you ever feel in danger talking about this stuff? Like, - I did a little bit way back, but then nothing happened so. - Okay. - Why am I sweating? - Yeah, yeah. - A little decades later. - Yeah. - So it's a story of my podcasting career. I'm like, well, really I can say that, okay, cool. So far. - Don't say that, come on. Have you ever encountered MK Ultra being used in the context of spooky science? So I think of, if you had a modern Manhattan project, - You spooky science means. - Means classified science or science that, you know, maybe would lead to, it's a low-barried entry and very destructive. Or. - But we're talking about actual engineering, not. - Confer a tactical advantage, you know, in aerospace or weaponry or anything like that, 'cause I think of, we talked about the Manhattan Project for a second. If you had any sort of modern equivalence of the Manhattan Project, and you were working on something really sensitive, you might implant one of the scientists with a chip or tell them to drink a drink or something, and then you'd have like a shutdown switch if they ever, you know, got lost in foreign territory. I mean, this is really dark stuff, but have you ever encountered anything like that or? Okay. Let's get into lighter territory, 'cause this is a, I'm officially really spooked. This is a great book. This is the. - So far, we've done mostly this book, but a little bit this book, don't really do that book. - Now we're gonna do this book, the human energy field. - Right. - What inspired you to write this and what's the basic thesis? - Uh, so. - I'm a hardcore scientist, right? - Yeah. - Mainstream. - No flaky stuff at all. - Now, you're right down the middle. - Here comes the mainstream, not flaky story. - Yeah. - So I'm in England in '67, and I just remember not particularly thinking about the topic. Not in Yulgate is right at the corner of a big park. And I'm just walking into the park, and all of a sudden I see a cone of light that comes out of my eyes. It's about 25, 30 feet away, diameters boat like this. And as I move my gaze, it moves up onto the back of a person, then it dissolves. So, what the hell? He hadn't taken any LSD that day. So, I just stored that experience, instead of all that stupid. And then that maybe think about the sense of being stared at, which is a very common experience. And then, it's called, you know, there's a word for it, Scopus Thesia. - I watched you talking to the Rupert Schilder. - Rupert Schilder. - That's right. - And I've read his book, so I'm aware of him. - Yeah. - So, 'cause you gotta make it sound scientific, right? - What? - Scopus Thesia. - Scopus Thesia, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - It's not foreign around here. - Yeah, make it sound official. - Right, yeah. - So, which is good strategy? I agree with it. - So, then you AP. - So the sense of being stared at, and then I started to actually, for some reason it was more innuidly when I was traveling in Italy. I remember one time in particular, I could actually feel the spot on the side of my face that was being stared at. When I turned around and look at the person, that's staring right at me. And then I had another experience of, which is con. I'm looking through the window, so this energy goes through glass at a nice-looking Italian woman walking down the street. She turns, it looks right at me. There's a look of mutual recognition, and then it's like, yeah. So that's a very common experience that a lot of people have had, right? So then I go, I'm not gonna just blow that off and say it's, which mainstream quotes science people say, it's misperception, it's an illusion, it's not real, because there's two theories. There's intramission, which is light comes into your eyes, goes into back to brain, that's clearly real. And then, extramission is something comes out of your eyes. Extramission, it's not allowed. No way, not happening. Going all the way back to John Locke. It's just forbidden. It's not possible, and that dominates academia today. So I go, yeah, maybe not. Something's gotta be coming out here for you to send somebody staring at you. So that's kind of what got me off on this, and then it was a spiritual anthropological philosophical reading walking around in the woods in England, in the Bush and Canada, sensing energy fields. One time, 1971, we've got a cabin in the woods in Eastern Manitoba. So it was out there with my shotgun hunting rabbit, and all of a sudden I go, I could actually feel the stare of the rabbit. And fuel, it was rabbit-like energy. Turn around, shot it, ate it that evening. So that makes me think, there's survival advantage to be able to sense stare, and then that made me think, well, if you're a gazelle out in Africa somewhere, and you can sense the predator staring at you, and you feel uneasy, and you take off, that's gonna be selected for revolution. It's a good survival skill. And so I'm sitting on those lines, and then I go, well, okay, that's nice, but how are we gonna study this scientifically? So Rupert Schilder talks about morphic fields, right? But what are morphic fields, like how do you measure them? It doesn't lead to a natural experiment. So then I just went, we know for a fact that every atom, everything in the universe emits an electromagnetic field. And then inside, there's the strong nuclear force and the weak nuclear force, and then gravity's in there, somehow, but who knows how? So it's just basic physics, right? So then I go, okay, how am I gonna be able to marry Eastern and Western medicine? I'm gonna say that energy, the spirit, the whatever, the whatever, and the electromagnetic field of the body are the same thing. Just looked at through different lenses. If you look through this lens, it's all spiritual mystical, you can't study it, it's outside science, but if you look at it through, oh, it's electromagnetic energy, we can measure that. So you put 20 electrodes on your brain, you measure your EEG. You put 12 electrodes here, you measure your EKG. So we're already measuring the electromagnetic field of the body for diagnostic and treatment purposes. It's mainstream science, nothing wacky about it at all. So the human body only has two parts, the brain and the heart. There's only brain disease and heart disease, that's it. Well, so the whole human body is emitting information of probable high level medical relevance all the time. Why aren't we measuring that? So then I publish the paper in a pretty obscure electrical engineering journal where I got these guys to sort of weld together a normal electrode that you put in mice's brains to measure stuff and suspended it in front of my eye. So it's not touching my body at all. I've got ski goggles where I took out this side so I could actually see out. This side is covered with tin foil and copper mesh that I got at target, so it's high level science. But that's very good electromagnetic insulation. Then there's another electrode hanging out in front, just in space, and then there's the 20 normal EEG leads. And these two frontal leads here, you can see the, quickly lines like normal EEG. So here's the two frontal leads. Here's the lead in front of my eye, no physical contact with my body. Here's the control lead that's just showing background, little, it's a completely physiological real.
signal that's been picked up in front of your eye it looks very similar to the electrode readings here so I mean the whole world hasn't said good job we know that extramission is real now because you still have to say doesn't have any physiological or ecological function how far does it propagate out into space turns out that inverse square law shows that signals drop off really fast but extra low frequency like brain wave level propagates because if you figure the the wave like it's so huge it's still going to drop off and it doesn't drop off and published in mainstream journals for thousands of kilometers the signal intensity doesn't drop off so it's perfectly realistically possible that from here to the gazelle it's still a strong signal so then I go into the anthropology of it well what about the sense of being stared at but they're in Italy these people are called jettatory so they jet the evil eye out of their eye there's evil eye beliefs all around the world right and you can cause evil eye sickness by staring at a person if you're a jettatory who's got bad energy so I okay so there's all kinds of cultural precedents for this what if it like 80% of that superstition I don't care my thesis is there's a core real electrophysiological signal there that can be investigated that's fascinating so you have the end what's really crazy as you said ELF extremely low frequency Andre Puharic who isn't in some of the documentation that you went through for yeah doggers but you're aware of him he was fascinated by ELF waves and thought that that was kind of the signal for consciousness right and that was I think the more kind of shutdown part of part of his work so what are you seeing is evidence for extramission this idea that the what are you saying that that the eyes emit photons or electrons or what specifically or ELF waves your brain emits brain waves which we measure by putting electrodes on your skull and we have to do a little contact pace there just to get a good contact otherwise there's too much noise so these which I mentioned before before we start recording these electrical engineers mainstream grant funded mainstream publications they can take a normal clinical EKG from a meter away with no contact with the body sure so these signals for sure propagating out into space if they go a meter because it's ELF there are the ELF component is going way that out there we know for fact proven no doubt and me with my one little paper of proven it's coming out of your eye so there's all these brain waves going on they got to get through your skull to get to the electrode oh they don't have to go through your skull to come out your eye the optic nervous is a giant electrical cable literally right there and just the geometry of the skull and focus concentration probably the signals gonna be stronger coming out of your eye oh it's so wild in it but it's completely scientifically testable and scientifically plausible it's not mysticism yeah so that's what I'm trying to do is take all this stuff and transform it into very specified ways this could be tested which by the way I would like some financial help without from somebody some kind person somewhere yeah and so this is electro technology it looks like from a little bit I've looked into it probably antenna technology is better there's very high-sensitive antenna that existed you can buy them online so whether it's electrode or antenna start measuring these signals so for the high part of it which I'm just it's kind of my personal hobby horse because I've already been ridiculed in public for talking about extramission which I called the human eye beam but then I realize actually my daughter told me you can't call it the human eye beam if you're gonna publish it so it's human-ocular extramission that sounds way more professional is does it decay it so I think of a normal electromagnetic wave as decaying at one over r square so one over distance square doesn't decay like that what is it decay like I don't over sure but minimally for every hundred of kilometers so if I'm just thinking about a thing is the idea that I somehow know how to like when I'm when I'm imprinted when I'm literally just thinking of something I'm conjuring it up in my mind am I affecting it somehow in this model via these ELF waves that well geolocated and literally reach it like a physical wave comes out of my brain or eyes whole body actually whole body and reaches this object and okay but but is a wave emitting from my body and reaching something that is geolocated in temporally located in our time space because I think of consciousness like if you have a mental image of something I don't necessarily translate that as like you are beaming a thing edit or do you think you are with these ELF waves well we're back to yes no maybe so that's why like the starting point so my effort is to boil it down to actually testable stuff yeah and you got to start here before you go way out here right so what would be the next test you would run uh develop a high high sensitivity electrode I would just assume that you can't repeatedly affect an object or a person who's across some sort of you know totally electromagnetic shielding fair day chamber and if you if I know these experiments have been done how put off did experiments like this within go swan it's part of Stargate the official CIA's like expi program he's looked into this but at my understanding is it's like it's replicable and it's real it's a real effect but that you can't do it every single time and you can't detect like an exact ELF wave every time maybe they just have it study the ELF component and it is literally a wave but somehow my instinct is that it's more complicated than some frequency we're missing like my guess is over the last 50 plus years of study in parapsychology with the benefit of information technology and chips and receivers and radio tech that someone must have done this experiment at some point and picked up it's classified do you think so yeah there's again it's back to the military intelligence community and whoever are all the big companies would be negligent if they weren't trying to investigate this tap into it figure out what to do with it I agree but do you think you can repeatedly pick up so you think ELF waves explain all psychic phenomena no okay nothing explains all of everything so I'm just saying what can we actually measure now with our current technology sure and publish it in mainstream journal and everybody's gonna go said something stirred out has been proven what do what do we know about the skin hmm what happens is stay out in the sun too long get burned ultraviolet radio causes the burn UV what type of radiation is that electromagnetic it's electromagnetic it's how do we synthesize vitamin D photons hit our skin that's right captured they drive biological processes how do we see so your body is already capturing photons and using them to drive very well organized life essential processes all the time so there's nothing it's just again right in the middle of common sense and science so there's these subthreshold rays that I happened to glimpse a few times that they're just subthreshold doesn't mean they're not real you know what I think you should invent so people have been experimenting with the electromagnetic healing modalities for a long time you have royal rife we'll get there yeah I'm just building the core the territory then well no I'll I'll defend you and say that this is a fact the voltage gated ion channels is how cells communicate differentials of the potential between you know within the cell membrane and without this you know outside of the cell membrane when it comes to you know things like sodium potassium is how cells communicate local electromagnetic fields affects those differentials affect the communication their studies going back to the 70s is a guy Gary Becker wrote a great book called the body electric where great book you can essentially charge electrobagnetically the severed you know arm of a tadpole cut off its arm charge it electrobagnetically salamanders you can cut off their arm and they regrow at themselves you regrow at themselves but you can regrow you can create a two headed salamander two headed tadpole also with basically just taking the you know the gradient the ion gradients of the head cells and then applying it to that stub of an arm that you cut off so you end up with these I mean there's literally a guy at toughs right now in Michael Levin who's doing a
limber regeneration based on this stuff. It's really wild. - It's all coming. - It's all coming, absolutely. So for people who are saying this is quack science, no, it's absolutely real. So here's what I think you should do. - Okay. - So royal rife, who was actually involved in-- - I'm aware of him, yeah. - Yeah, you're aware of him. So he was involved in some not-so-sabery research per what we were talking about in a Plum Island, and where probably the modern version of Lyme disease came from speaking of-- - Yeah, it's incredible, though. - Yeah, pretty interesting. - But he had this thing called rife machine, which if you ask a Lyme disease patient to this day, ironically, this is the thing that works for them. It came from this guy, royal rife, and it works on the electromagnetic field of the body, and it essentially is like a, it's a horse shoe. That's a copper horse shoe. It looks like basically a Tesla coil, and it seems to tune the body in this really healing way. There's another company called Amp coil, which makes things around this area. I've used an Amp coil before. - It's called a Tesla coil? - It's a Tesla coil. - There's some guy around here who makes Tesla stuff. - Elon Musk. - He should have been involved. - Possibly, although-- - The tricky digs get his attention. - Yeah, I don't know. But, so I think if you, there's a whole polemic on Elon working on-- - There you go. - I don't know, yeah, but-- - I'm aware. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you're aware. So, if you think of the body as you can turn molecular mass into frequency, and every organ or every part of the body should be operating at some optimum frequency. Again, not quirky to say. There's a field called simatics. - When the frequency goes to zero, we know it's game over. - We know it's game over. And there's a field called simatics where you can put sand on a vibrational plate and create structures deliberately with frequency and acoustics. And so we know that this is not pseudoscience. So, what if you created some sort of, just like we, you know, you can bank stem cells or blood cord, if you're, you know, baby or whatever, and then you do an autologous stem cell transfer later in life if you have some sort of malady and it can really help you. - Can I tell you a secret about doctors? - What? - They use long words you don't understand to sound smarter. - I know, sorry for using the word autologous. It's just your own stem cells. What I'm saying, where you don't have an immune reaction due to transferring it. My point is, what if you could figure out there was like an optimum frequency at which your organs or body could operate at? - You could then create sort of a bank electromagnetically of, you know, what is optimum health for your organs? You could also do that across a large cohort. And then you could create essentially a tuning fork for the human body. And if you think about acoustics and physics and electromagnetics, they exist upstream of biochemistry. Biochemistry is, you know, one layer up on the stack. - Do you wanna know the caveman version of that technology? - Tell me, yeah. - What do you put in the person's chest when they got atrial fibrillation? - A pacemaker. - A pacemaker, exactly. - What are you doing? - Can't walk through an x-ray 'cause it'll-- - Primitive level. - We are, no, we are exactly, we are. We know that the body is electric, yeah. And what is a defibrillator at all? It's a way to electrically jumpstart the body. So, couldn't we do something like this? And then you would end up with this post medicine, you know, we have medicine, which is really the creation of the Flexner Report and the sort of Modern American Medical Association, which is-- - No, we're offered to conspiracy theories again. - But it's not even a conspiracy. It's literally, it's petrochemical-based. And, you know, this is Rockefeller was funding this stuff. - Absolutely. - And I'm not saying, you know, necessarily it was all. - I'm very critical of Big Pharma. - It's horrible, it's a bad system. So, this is all, it's all this petrochemical-based pills. And then if you created this sort of generator that could like take that out, like this literally this thing that could tune your body. How amazing would that be? - So, you should create it. - Thank you. - Yeah. - You should get me some money. (laughing) - So, giving you the idea and getting you the money. - Yeah. - Well, what else you got to do today? - I think, okay, fine. All alone, 90% of the company then. I might have to negotiate on that. - Okay, all right. We'll figure it out. - So, well, this is all where my thinking is heady. And it's all, there's a TV show and a couple of movies called Star Trek. There's Dr. Bones, Tri-Corter. I'm talking about developing a Tri-Corter. 'Cause you use the Santana, okay. So, interested about the eye beam, but interested in the whole body. And then you can have an array of these either electrodes or antennas, whatever kind of sensors it is. And you lie the person down and you can have just handheld single version, you can scan around. You can have like a mammogram X-ray type thing or you can have like an MRI machine with lie in there. You have array of these electrodes and you just measure all the frequencies are coming out of the whole body in all the different locations. And can you spot disease at the electromagnetic level before it trickles down to the biological level? - Hmm, probably, probably. Or you just do the scan. So it's not like an MRI, you're not putting any radiation into the person or CT scan or anything. You're just measuring what comes out. So it's no more noxious than taking a photograph of somebody. There's no side effects at all. And then, okay, just what you've been saying, okay, here's the abnormality that we've measured. And we've got all the norms and all the charts and all the different diseases all mapped out. What energy are we gonna put back into normalize this? - Hmm, exactly. So it's a whole electromagnetic medicine. And then I remember talking to a guy about sort of a dinner and get together. He was talking about sort of this kind of stuff. And I was getting, saying to him, yeah, well, satellites now they can read X-rays from the sky and the sky's a military guy and he sort of scoffs at me and surprise me with his reactions. License plate, they can count the hair on the flies, but so I mean, the resolution is incredible, right? So if I've got little lines here, it's called a fingerprint, I've got an iris here. I've got DNA in here. These are all identifying features of me, right? So maybe everybody has an electromagnetic, specific signature to themselves, which maybe you could track from way up there. So then, really, there's funny side story about that too, a book about a Psalm of Bin Laden was obviously anti-FBI Pro CIA kind of perspective. And they're making fun of this guys on the FBI CIA or stumbling and bumming around. They can't find him anywhere. Oh, we just missed our opportunity. He was at Saudi Arabia, I think it was. One of those get-togethers where they left their falcons and they're hunting and stuff, and he was there. And they knew who was there and they were monitoring from a drone or satellite or whatever. And then he just slipped out. We didn't notice him leaving. And that's why we didn't get him that year. It's the most ridiculous preposterous story ever. What do you mean? You're surveying like all the time. What do you mean the tape changed him? The minute was missing from when Bin Laden left. So we were obviously able to track any individual we want. Just optically. So now we can track electrometrically. So we have that technology. How come we have all these missing children? We have no idea where they are. So there's some big block to getting that operational so we could find all these people and rest all these guys. So at all, now we're back into the conspiracies side of it. But what exactly, you're saying if this technology around MK Ultra is in the black along with the electromagnetic signatures that are unique to people, we should be able to like track everybody on the planet. Like some group should with sort of potentially. But we're already tracking with digital currency, satellite imagery, telephones, emails. I mean, every single phone call email is tracked and stored, right? So it's just another additional part of the horrible surveillance complex. Yes, so it's trying to end on a positive net. Well, I'm back to the light side here. My father's not that evil guy. So we're just taking mainstream medicine into the 21st century. We are, man. Well, dragging our feet on it a bit. And so then another thing would be security. So, you know, high risk recognition, you're your only person with your key. There's levels of it. Well, I don't we have a electromagnetic scanner that identifies a person. Why don't we have a system where you can detect somebody approaching the building or answering the building electrometrically? Let's not, let's not do any of that. Let's do the healing thing for just saying this is part.
the sales pitch, right? Yeah. So many applications then in agriculture. Yeah. We have hydroponic gardening already, right? Yeah, sure. It's not that wide to use. We know there's some really stupid ridiculous people called medicine men. Yeah. And they like to jump around and chant and wave feathers in the ear to help the crops grow. Superstition. There's a, if we go back 1500 years in England, there's the Maypole dances, which are fertility dances in the spring. So it's all culture all over the place, right? Well, ridiculous nonsense, but they're they're having fun at the party. But what if the medicine man is emitting a specific focused electromagnetic signal, which I say probably coming from the solar plexus, that actually enhances germination. So now we go to the hydroponic garden. We measure what it is it's coming out of the medicine man's body. We imitate that frequency with an emitter. We expose the hydroponic garden to it. We have the control garden. What's the germination rate? It's totally researchable. Well, like Tesla said, it's all frequency. Yeah. And Dr. Colin Ross, I really appreciate this. I'm glad we ended on this positive note of fertilizing the world, healing people because we just covered a lot of dark shit to be honest true. And but it's dark stuff that really needs to be exposed and you've really helped put it to the light. And so I don't really know what you do with this. I think it's just be aware of all the weird malfeasance when it comes to intel on this stuff historically. And you know, maybe we can get some good investigative journalism as to what's happening today. And really appreciate you coming by man. There's a lot of fun. Thanks for the invite. Absolutely. (crickets chirping)
Podcast Summary
Key Points:
Documented U.S. government programs like MK-Ultra experimented with mind control, using drugs, hypnosis, brain implants, and sensory deprivation to create split personalities and spies.
Decades of classified documents reveal extensive connections between psychiatrists, intelligence agencies, and covert projects, including cases involving figures like Lee Harvey Oswald, Charles Manson, and Robert F. Kennedy.
The existence of such programs is not speculative—evidence includes declassified files, testimonies, and public records showing psychological manipulation, trauma, and assassination-related activities.
Summary:
S. government mind control programs, notably MK-Ultra, which ran from the 1950s through the 1970s. These programs involved the use of drugs, hypnosis, electric shock, and isolation to create split personalities and covert agents capable of carrying out assassinations or espionage.
Evidence from declassified military and CIA documents—such as the 120+ drugs tested on over 1,500 subjects—reveals a systematic and large-scale effort to manipulate human behavior. Key figures like Lee Harvey Oswald, Charles Manson, and Robert F. Kennedy are linked through these programs, with theories suggesting they were either patients or participants in mental conditioning.
The narrative highlights real-world cases, such as the alleged LSD use on Frank Olson, the connection between psychiatrists like Louis Jolly West and the Oklahoma City bombing, and the role of psychological manipulation in shaping criminal behavior. The author argues that such practices were not just theoretical but actively implemented, with documented cover-ups and suppressed records. The story extends to modern implications, such as the Epstein case and the possibility of elite-level psychological conditioning in high-profile figures.
While the details remain controversial and often unverified, the core idea—that powerful institutions may have systematically conditioned individuals for covert operations—is grounded in public records and investigative journalism. The tone remains skeptical yet grounded, suggesting that while full transparency is lacking, the evidence strongly points to a deeper, more troubling layer of state-sanctioned psychological experimentation.
FAQs
MK Ultra was a covert CIA program from the 1950s to 1970s aimed at developing mind control techniques. Its objectives included creating spies, assassins, and individuals with compartmentalized personalities through methods like hypnosis, brain implants, electric shock, and drug testing.
Yes, there are publicly available documents revealing that the U.S. Army and CIA conducted extensive mind control experiments on over 1,500 people using 120 different drugs, including LSD, and techniques like sensory deprivation and hypnosis.
It is plausible that Lee Harvey Oswald was an MK Ultra subject, based on connections to other program participants, his known ties to the FBI, and the fact that he reportedly had no memory of killing President Kennedy, a symptom sometimes associated with mind control.
Robert F. Kennedy reportedly had no memory of being shot, and some evidence suggests he may have been a victim of mind control, as he was in a position to observe the scene and yet could not recall key details, aligning with patterns seen in MK Ultra subjects.
Yes, Charles Manson is believed to have been exposed to MK Ultra-style techniques, particularly through LSD use and psychological manipulation. He regularly visited a clinic in San Francisco associated with psychiatrists involved in such programs, and his behavior and ideology show signs of being influenced by a controlled narrative.
Techniques included hypnosis, sensory deprivation, isolation, electric shock, brain electrode implants, LSD dosing, and the use of verbal triggers like 'the moon is clear' to activate a hidden personality or identity.
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