How San Francisco Became A Haven For The Fentanyl Trade

In San Francisco, they narrow camp people all day long. Fettin' all sort of coming in and I was like, "Do this is not like any other type of monster." Point two micrograms can overdose you. When you get high on Fettin' all, your best high is when you're on the verge of death. I would go out into the tenderloin' and I would buy like half ounce of Fettin' all. And then I'd go back and buy an ounce. And I'd get up to where I'd buy like four ounces from a street corner guy. Put it in a bag, sell it to you, broad daylight. I would be buying what he cops drive by. They've just created a perfect market for drug trafficking. The tenderloin, San Francisco, California. One of America's most lawless open air drug markets. Three overdose deaths a day. Fettin' all sold openly on the streets while drug gangs operate with near impunity. Officer Britt Ilmore spent years under cover infiltrating the drug crews that control the streets of the tenderloin. Through surveillance, wiretaps, and confidential informants, he began working his way up the supply chain. From Honduran street dealers in San Francisco, all the way back to their suppliers in Cinello, Mexico. This is one bad-ass cop. And today, he's taking us inside one of the darkest corners of America's underworld. Hit that subscribe button, comment below, and enjoy the wildest crime stories you'll ever hear. It's Britt Ilmore right here on the connect with Johnny Mitchell. Well, I've said this for a long time. If you arrest the drug users, then the drug, you'll have no more drug dealers. I mean, you'll have drug dealers, but not in the open air markets because there's no business. That's correct. So it's, yeah, you kind of got to arrest the people using this shit. Yeah. Like you said, I'm not very strong on them going to jail, but they need a timeout somewhere. So if their timeout is only place as jail, you're better off to put them in there. And there was a time when the judges would pull them out and go, hey, man, you wanna go to program? Where you wanna stay in here? Yeah, they'd only be in for five, 10 days, let's say. But now it's like, I'm not holding anybody. Right. You gotta leave them there. Give them their ticket and let them stay out here. You gotta leave them in there for 30 days. Or whatever it is, 60 days, like let them dry out. You gotta get that clarity. Yes. Nobody, those people are suffering like, they don't even know their names. They don't even know who they are. And they're like, it's okay, leave them alone. They have a right to sleep on the ground. There's zombies, man, they don't even know their names. And you think that's compassion. Let these people literally die on a busy street in one of the most important cities in the world. Yeah. And that's, no, no, no, we don't wanna send him to jail. And again, I think it's wrong to say, well, let's put him up in rooms. So, do they get, what, do they get die up there? Nobody sees it? As I say, put him in a hospital that's guarded and people get searched when they go in so they can't bring drugs in. If you don't wanna call it a prison, if you don't wanna call it a jail. Well, that's like the jails. There's a bunch of dope running through the jails because before when you went into the jails, when I worked there, you got searched. No matter what, if you were doing weekends for a DUI, you got searched. And then some lady comes in and she's like, I was violated because I only came in for weekends for misdemean, or something. I don't know if it was misdemean or what. It had to be something really low, like maybe a DUI. So the court said, no more searching. Oh, you strip searching. No more strip searching. No, now violate crimes or long periods of time. So everybody comes in on the weekends and brings all this dope on them, all stuffed up in their cavities, and it's just running rampant through the jails. Right. Because they can't control it. It's a party. They're probably getting arrested on purpose. They want to come in for sure. So they get money wired from people in jails, family members to their accounts. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's a whole, yeah. That's nuts. Yeah, I mean, look, they have open air drug markets. You know, talking about the tenderloin, we were just down in Medellin, Columbia last year. And Medellin is like, dude, it looks like Barcelona or so. Like it's so westernized. It looks like a city in Europe. Yeah, there's foreigners everywhere. It's beautiful. It's clean. And then they got one area downtown just to like the south of the city. They call it an oil, an oil show. It's a hole. And it's just, it's like the tenderloin times 20. They get pushed in there. Don't fiends just, it looks, it's like the walking dead. Like you think the tenderloin is bad. This is times 20. But that's how a lot of cities are dealing with it. They're just like, let the animals. It was like on the wire. Like when they said hamster dam put them all in there. Dude, they could do what they want. Or when I was in New York, I went to New York right after 9/11. They sent a hundred of us over there to help. So we went up two months after. And I'm like, dude, there's no drug dealing out here. They go, they can do all they want in those projects. Fucking step outside those projects. We got problem. So everything was contained. You want to get dope, you go on the projects. You carry the gun, you stay in the project. You didn't come out on the sidewalk. So it was like, they were doing it back then. Yeah. Yeah, it's a rot. I don't know. I'm not here to talk about the solution, you know. Because the Western world is, sorry. You're meeting me at a weird time in my life. The Western world is in inevitable decline. And the fact that so many Americans are strung out on drugs. It could be a homeless guy in the tenderloin or a suburban mother on percussette. Well, I don't know. More of that, actually, than there are of the homeless guy. True. But because I've gotten older, I don't know if I've opened up my eyes or things are getting worse to where I'm like, do $20 billion being wasted on fucking hospice care bullshit? Why isn't that $20 million on fucking addiction and mental mental help? There's so much waste. All that money should be going to that. It's crazy. Why are people worried? Why are these people up in Sacramento worried about guys looking into this shit? When it's like, that money could be used for something else, man. We were in Baltimore recently. And let me put it this way, all the retired drug dealers are now running rehab clinics. That money is even bigger in rehab than there is in selling the drugs to the people. So. And it's clean. They don't get, they don't have the potential of. I mean, a lot of them, there are super dirty rehabs that are literally selling drugs to people who are paying fixers to pay junkies, to come into the clinics for 30 days and dry out. And then the operators get the insurance money. Yeah, just get that insurance. There are people that are actually getting high inside of the clinics. But most of them are probably not doing that. They're just not really helping. They're just taking the government money, the Medicaid, and then not giving the service. Yeah, not helping rehabilitate the. Well, they have those in San Francisco where the people that are working there, usually the cleaned up, people that rehab, they tell them, don't call the cops for anything. If someone's doing dope and here, don't call the cops. If somebody gets assaulted, don't call the cops because we don't want to lose our nonprofit money. Which is fucking bullshit. It's crazy, bro. Yeah, that said, it doesn't work, man. That said, it doesn't work. But it's, it pains me because San Francisco is just objectively one of the greatest cities, one of the most beautiful cities. California is the greatest state and you'll never convince me otherwise. I mean, obviously I'm biased and from there, I'm from Oregon. But California's by adopted home. Did you do a lot of time in California? I didn't do any time in California. No, but did you? Yeah, I lived there for a long time. Did you live? Decades, I lived in LA. Oh, you did LA. My brother lives in San Francisco though. So we'd be up there. Oh, he does? Yeah. And yeah, so you grew up with like Mark Zuckerberg and Sam Altman of OpenAI, right? I know who they are. That's kidding. I know who they are. That's why San Francisco's so wild, it's a peek into the future because you have literally the filthiest, rich tech oligarchs, right? That I was buying from and he was, he was, I sent it to you. He was, he was dealing to all those people. Oh, no shit. Yeah, because they were all getting these mind-altering drugs from him. Right. Because they said it opens up the fucking box in their brain to where I can create a new app. Think outside the box and create these things. I had a guy selling me math. It's a pretty good story. And then the hook that he used got put in jail up in Michigan or something. So electronically we figured out where he was at because I didn't have his phone number. I had his phone number, but I wasn't supposed to have his phone number. So electronically we figured out where he was at. I sat for four hours in a hotel holding food from inside the cafeteria there. And they all sat around the hotel and they said he's coming out of a room. He's going to his corvette right now. So I just go run it out there. And I see him and I'm like, hey, cue, what's up? He's like, what the fuck you doing here? I go, I'm working at the Facebook building on construction. I was all dressed like a construction guy. I said, dude, what happened to our boy? He goes, dude, he's in jail like in Michigan. I was like, well, I still need a plug. And he was like, all right, here's my number. So I sat there for four hours again, his number. Got it, started dealing with him direct. We pop him, sold me like 10 pounds over a couple weeks. And he goes, I'll turn you on to a guy who sells to tech. Yeah. Old man, you think about the guys. Think about the lick if you're a drug dealer in the Bay Area. And you get in with Google and Twitter. He lived up in Rao City in a nice area. So they arrest him. We arrest him. I get him to sell to me. He did like three, four sales to me. Just below his house, we hit his house. FBI has to come with us. And then FBI said, he's a person of our interest. We need to take him. And then he's selling Coke. He was selling his big thing was DMT, LSD. Ketamine. Ketamine. I bought a lot of ketamine from him. MDMA powder, peer form, all that stuff. His thing about those guys, those dorks that working in Silicon Valley, they all are overworked. They're crazy smart. So they need ketamine to, to relax MDMA to go crazy. The noise doesn't show off. So they have to fucking chemically do it. Everybody in the Bay Area from the junkies. So the guy's taken millions of years dealing with a big time CEO. I don't want to say his name because I can't prove it. Elon Musk. We all have seen how that guy's whacked out of his mind. But somebody at his level. Oh, yeah. Come on, break it, dude. I can't have you because I don't, they never told me for the lawyer after we get to know. I found out who it was, but he was in San Francisco for a while. Then he sold a business and moved out. So I'll leave it at that. Yo, he was, he was the man of like a huge, like a tech guy, like a tech entrepreneur. Oh, Peter Teal. No, boom. No. It wasn't. Um, he'll know who, you know, the big company in San Francisco. Okay. So I'm going to let you guys speculate in the comments who, which tech giant is he, is he talking about? Brit, it's good to have you. You know, who got made their bones in Redwood City. El Mento. El Cartel, Alizco, no, no, no, no, no, no. I see on a mentor. He used to sell it. 16th of mission. My boys used to rest them all time. Oh, cigar. Oh, cigar. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He, he, he got arrested for sales a bunch of times. Um, a gun caught with a gun. Mm-hmm. And then when he went back, dude, he became the, he became the man. He became the man. Yeah, he was well known as San Francisco, just as a street seller. Just as a street seller. Yeah, heroin. Yep. Yep. 16th of mission. So the Hondurans really run the tenderloin on the street level. Yes. I noticed that when we were up there two, three years ago filming for this show, I saw, you know, because they're posted up on the corners, like it's 1985, right? Just their trapping. And I was like, who are these skinny, good-looking Mexicans? They came and they're like track era. Why did they pick? Why does this one ethnic group pick that area? They just didn't pick this area. They picked the tenderloin. They're up in Seattle. They're in Denver. They're in Ohio. There's these certain areas that they picked in Portland. Portland. Yes. I'm in Portland. Pass the I-5 going to Seattle. Now, do you think that's because just a couple drug dealers way back in the day came and they were like, Hey, here's this is we're getting money here. They just told everybody back home. There's a family, excuse me, there's a city in Honduras. They call it the Valley. I don't know the exact name of it. All of them leave there once they get old enough to come up and it just depends on if your families or your friends are in the tenderloin area or they're doing up in Portland or they're doing Denver or they're doing Ohio. That's where they'll gravitate towards. As soon as they get old enough to be able to travel, they'll head up there. They all work as independent contractors. They're not working for a person. They're not selling for a person and getting a certain amount of money taken off or anything. They deal on their own. They're all independent. It's a really weird. It's a horizontal plane field for the Hondurans. When usually you'll see a vertical plane field with drug dealers. You'll see this person's working for this person. He's working for this person. There in Honduras, dude, I'll go by dope in the tenderloin and I'll walk up to the guy and he'll be like, no, it's his turn. He'll give it to the guy next one. They rotate off. They're not greedy. They're not greedy at all. Yeah, and then they make their money and they would just send it back to Honduras. They make like, this one guy was buying from. We went up on a wire on him and then climbed the ladder up to the Mexicans for fentanyl a thousand a day. It's insane money. So a thousand days, seven days a week and they would send about half of it out back and keep half. He had a guy that would hold for him. A lot of times we'll have the like the bombs or the disheveled guys holding the dope in the backpacks for them and they'd call them over and they'll pull it out so they're clean when the cops come. I was buying from him and he had this one guy, this white dude, that was always holding his dope. He went there one day. I asked, he goes, "Oh, it's hard to find good work." He said, "You want to work for me?" Because I was all disheveled looking too and I said, "How much?" He said 300 a day. He said, "I'll give you 300 bucks a day to stand out here and hold my backpack for me." What junky wouldn't do that? Oh, yeah. Inside the backpack, you're going to have a pound of meth. You're going to have a bunch of heroin. You're going to have a bunch of coke. You're going to have a bunch of crack. You're going to have some M30 oxycod and pills and you're going to have a shitload of fentanyl. Right. And is the, in the tenderloin is the fentanyl? Because you just retired in 2024. So your current, does, do all the other drugs contain fentanyl? Like, oh, wow. I have not seen a mix of it. The only time I've seen a mix of it is was they were taking Coca-Cola. Coke. They're pouring it into big vats and thickening it up and throwing some fentanyl in it and selling it as heroin. It didn't hit on heroin when I got tested, hit on fentanyl. So they would throw fentanyl in there and just take a bunch of liters of coke and as they heat it up and it thickens and thickens and thickens, they put it in and then it gets hard when it dries. And they were selling it like it was black tar. They were selling it as black tar. So can you actually go find pure heroin in the tenderloin? You could find black tar and you can find brown, which has a higher potency. But you're not going to find any China white. Right. But you can find it like, because we were just in Baltimore and they now have their version of the tenderloin. Like it's a Fulton Street market. You go down there, but all the heroin, even the meth, obviously the M30s, it won't sell unless it has fentanyl in it. The junkies just don't want it. It's not like that here because we would get it lab tested. And our meth would run high 90s, heroin would test. Black tar heroin, black tar heroin's weak. And the big thing was the black and whites, the one and ones, you get a balloon of heroin and a balloon of coke. It's kind of like a speedball. So you would buy that, but you'd have to buy a decent amount of heroin to get stay high for the day. But once the brown heroin came in, the brown heroin holds a better potency. I was buying pounds of heroin on a wire from a guy at East Pawalto and he would tell me when he sold it to me, like, you could step on this one four times. You could step on this one three times. You could step on this one six times. And it would just pen because they would test the potency when it came up and they knew how much you can step on it with filler to still make a good amount. Okay. So you don't think the fentanyl, like, overtook the opioid. I mean, it obviously overtook the market, but there's still people that don't want it. There's still like old school heroin junkies that want the brown. You're going to get you functioning heroin addicts that are coming in behind it. They don't want to fuck with the fentanyl, because they don't want to say fuck with the fentanyl, it's all over. So what they'll do is you could still buy black tar out of there. But what will happen is if you buy, if you buy black tar, they'll offer you some fentanyl for free. Hey, take a little of that and try that. That's the shit because they want to get you on the fentanyl because the fentanyl, they make so much money off it. Yeah, tell us these, the economics of fentanyl after it's broken down from wholesale to retail are insane. Yeah, it is. You could buy, if you, if you get pure fentanyl, which they get and you break it down, it's.2 micrograms can overdose you. So they cut it with pounds and pounds of Manitol that they buy from Amazon and it comes in and they blend it. So when you're doing it, the percentage of the fentanyl is very, very low. So it's all profit. What they're making is all profit. And what's in the filler of the Manitol? What's a kilo? Like what would a Honduran crew in the tenderloin buy a kilo fentanyl from the Mexicans for? I've heard upwards 10 to 13,000, but that would make a shitload of when you broke it down for the street. Yeah, like how long you could be selling off that? Oh, for a month. Yes. Yes. And their connects are the Mexicans. They have it risen to the point where their wholesale with kilos of fentanyl. No, and they don't want to. It's kind of a weird drug. You make more money selling on the street than you make selling bulk. When these guys sell bulk, they don't make as much. They don't, they have to do very, they have to do far less transactions. But if you're out on the street slinging, then like in the tenderloin, you're making a lot of money. I mean, you're making, you can make up to a thousand or more a day. Well, plus you barely stay in jail. When you're just selling little spitters, you know, like the tiny little balls of heroin or as a fentanyl in a place like San Francisco, you're not. Whereas you get caught with two keys of fentanyl, now you're dealing with the feds. It's so extreme. Back in the day, I was at the end of the crack epidemic in the 90s when I went out there and I started buying. I've done thousands of buys in the tenderloin. So they would use spitters. They would wrap up crack in their mouth and spit them out to you. In case cops came, they drink water, ingest it, and shit it out, or puke it out and resell it. They don't even do that with the fentanyl now. They don't do, first of all, it's dangerous, but second of all, they don't have to. They just break a scale out on that sidewalk and they break it off and how much you want. You want three grams. There you go. Fucking put it in a bag. Sell it to you. And broad daylight. Broad daylight. I would be buying what's he cops drive by. You're like, I felt like I was doing some wrong. I was like, oh, fuck, it's a cops. Yo, that sounds like a lot of fun. It was, it was a I had a whole lot of fun doing it. - So, and you worked all different angles of it, man. Like you were just like a bruiser. Like if the DEA wanted you to go bust a huge fucking, you know, meth ring, you go there. Stolen car ring, you go there. Huge weed grow, you go there. - Yeah, that's what I did. I worked, my last 15 years was for a task force. My first, I got into narcotics 1999, and all we did was buys. We did, we did from street level up to multiple ounce buys because of the money. And then I would do buys for the feds on the side. The feds would call up and say, "Hey, we're gonna start a wire." This guy wants to introduce you to the person we're going up on so we can get up on this wire. So I'd be like, "Sure." So I would do it. And then in 2009, I went up full time with them. So what I would do is I would still work for local agencies, San Mateo County, San Francisco, anybody that needed me, I would go out to a local agency, but I would also work for ATF, DEA, HSI. I maybe did a couple of things with the FBI, but we didn't really mess with them too much. - Yeah, that's, so you're like a jack of all trades. - That's all I did, I just floater. - Yeah, that's all I did was go out. The Metro unit I worked in when I did go up to DEA was like four DEA agents, a couple SFPD guys, couple other local agencies like Daily City, San Mateo, and then we had CHP, HSI Postal Service. So it was a big mix of us. So I was there to be able to do stuff for everybody. - Yeah, and so you're undercover much of this time. - Yeah, like almost all of it. - All the time, they kept me off the street. Yeah, they kept me off the street. - Did you ever get made? Like by somebody who just looked at you and said, the black guys are really good at spotting a cop, I think. - I got made doing street sales one day, but he had sold to me. I had bought from him two times prior and he got arrested. And then I seen him and he was like, "Hey, I haven't seen you in a while. "I haven't seen you in a while." And he sold to me and when he put it in my hand, he goes, "Oh, fuck." Like it flashed, like he's fucking cop. - God damn it. - Yeah, so that was like on a Bible separation. We used to do Bible separations, which was really fun in the tenderloin. They still do them. Is there any violence down there? There's a lot of guns, a lot of knives. - But like what if a black crew wants to set up, you know, I don't know how many black drug dealers are down there anymore? - There's a group of them, but they mainly do the heroin and the pills. - Okay, they made it. - That's Thursday. - Nobody wants to mess with the fet and all, other than Honduran's. None of them want you. They have it perfected. They have it set up, they have it down. This is dangerous. - Yeah, but you can get the prescription drugs. You see even get the vagadins, the oxys, the adderals, the Xanaxes in the M30s from, you can get all those from, but the blacks would usually sell those as well as heroin. - Really? - And it's in a different section. It's just a couple blocks away. Everybody kind of minds their own business. - Right, so it's kind of like an unspoken, like you guys are gonna have the fentanyl down there. We get the heroin down here. You know, crack is down that way. - Yes. - Okay. - Yeah, that makes sense. So I think Skid Row is kind of like that too. - But if you go to Honduran, he's a one-stop shop. He carries everything with him. - Wow. - He does not want you to leave. He wants to make a sale. So if you get his backpack, whether he has it on or he's having some disheveled dude hold it for him or sitting in a corner holding it, you'll get the crack, you'll get the powdered coke, you'll get the meth, you'll get the heroin, you'll get the M30 pills, and you'll get the fentanyl. It's all in there. Do Silicon Valley guys go to the tenderloin to score if they need powder? Have you ever seen that, like high-class people down there? - You will see people driving through there in nice cars with suits and stuff on. But you'll also see, like, you'll see parcel drivers pulling up to get it. You'll see, I see kids in Catholic uniforms going up. You know what I mean, you'll see, it's a one-stop shop. - I've heard that some of the Hondurans, when they get smuggled over by the Mexicans, I've heard that that's how they make connects. Like sometimes they even work off the fee to bring them over with sell and fentanyl. Have you, is that true? - In my experience, no. What will usually be, 'cause we're on a lot of Honduran wires and they'd be talking Honduras, but they'd say, hey, I'm sending my cousin up or I'm sending my cousin and his friend up, they would pick them up once they made it across, they would only pay, they'd call it, they don't even call it a coyote, no more, they'd call it a taxi. The taxi would get them through, pass them over, they paid the fee and then they bring them up to where they live. And all the Hondurans that deal in Tendor line, like 99% of them live in Oakland. And they'll rent houses in Oakland and you'll have 10, 15 of them there. And they'll get them started with a little bit of dope and then they'll just tell them, hey, here's our connect. And once they hit the ground running, they're all independent contractors. - Wow. - Yeah. - Wow, and then they just come over to San Francisco to hustle during the day. - They held some San Francisco and then they just go back during the day or night, just depends on what shift they're working. - So they're running 24 hours. - 24/7, you can go out there at three in the morning and you're gonna find somebody. - And they don't really have a, not a boss, they don't have a connect there, whoever brings them over, like the elder gives them the wholesale connect. - It's like a family thing, they'll pass it over to 'em, like, hey, I'll get you started. This is based off all my experience of listening to these wires. I'll get you started, save the money. And then you can buy a little more, a little more, a little more from whoever we're buying it from. And from the wire, we'll hear the Hondurns are smart. They'll have three, four, five Mexicans that they're dealing with. And they don't want to just, they don't want to put all their eggs in one basket and one of them will call and be like, hey, I'm bought from me for a while. Oh yeah, it's kind of slow right now, but they're buying from the other ones. So they always want to keep different connects and work the angle for the prices. - Get the better price. - But they want that one Mexican to think that, no, you're my soul, you're my soul provider. - Right. - It's like how you've got four girlfriends, you know. - Yes. - Baby, you're my everything. - Yeah, I'm busy. - Exactly what it is. They're very smart, market-wise. - Do they go to places like San Francisco and Portland and Seattle and Denver because they're sanctuary cities, and when they get caught selling fentanyl or selling drugs, they know that their chances of getting deported are way lower than if they were, you know, an Arizona or something like. Do you think they choose those cities on purpose for that reason? - Absolutely, absolutely. They'll be people we deal with that have five, six, seven, eight cases on them in a three to six month period. 'Cause they get out the next day. They get out the next day. And the judge is like, okay. They look at it as not a violent crime. And they just look at it as a drug issue. - Okay, so it's, yeah, it's weird. It's like a cycle that feeds itself. These, you have open-air drug markets because they don't prosecute drug dealers. So now you get addicts from all over the area and the country, which brings in more drug dealers. And now generations later, it's just, it's like a rinse and repeat. - It's like 50% of the people that are users that aren't even from California. - Right, we met truck drivers that are like, I came all the way here from Oklahoma 'cause I heard you could just smoke meth. - You could do the drugs outside. The weather's nice. So you're not freezing if you're sleeping on a curb and you get money. You get money from the city. - Is that true? - Okay, just how? I want some money. - I think it's, I was told by people that I had talked to. They get like 600 bucks a month. - Right. - Anophone. - They give you a phone. The city San Francisco gives you a phone. - No, you can get one of those obama phones 'cause they're standing on every corner. People just fill the paper out and get a phone. - Wow. - Yeah. - So 600 bucks a month, you could just claim homelessness. And now 600 bucks a month, I can go get some fentanyl. And now I can start flipping it. - And you can eat for free and you can, yeah. - So yeah, they choose these cities. These Honduran guys are pretty sharp cookies. Have you ever worked a wire from a street level Honduran dealer all the way up to like a big time cartel plug? - We've done it quite a few times. - Oh shit. - I would go out into the tenderloin and I would buy like half ounce of fentanyl and I'd get the nut for his phone number. Then I'd go back, I tell these guys that I'm selling this. I ain't using, I'm not a user, I sell this shit. And they'd be like, okay, and I give some backstory that I take it to Vegas or I take it over, I take it somewhere else or I take it to work. I'm selling it at work. So what would happen, I'd get up to where I'd buy like four ounces from a street corner guy 'cause I would call him up and tell him, hey, can I get four? And he'd be like, yeah, I'll bring it in tonight when I come in. So we're already up on his phone. So once we start crossing the numbers, we just start climbing the ladder and we get, we just, we go all the way to Mexico. - Okay, have you gotten into Mexico? - Yeah. - So as possible, how do you do that? If you're not working with like the CIA, like, how does the American DEA combine with a California cop, do you have to work with the Mexican feds or how does that? - No, what we would do is we would be up on their phone and identify them and we'd end up putting a worn out for them when the wire came down. So if they ever came into the United States, I got arrested and they had to pay up for the future. of that wire. - Today's episode is brought to you by my favorite company in the whole wide world, good friends of mine, over at Moode. Moode is making federally compliant, hemp-derived cannabis accessible, affordable, and convenient. And they're grown on small pesticide-free family run farms right here in the USA, and you know you are getting the best highest quality organic cannabis. 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That's mood mood.com with promo code connect for 20% off your first order. You guys, this is the only place that you should be getting your federally legal cannabinoids from. They are the longest sponsor of the show, and I love them. Connect is the promo code for 20% off at mood.com. Thank you, mood. - Okay, so tell the story of that. Tell us where it was, who is the boss, where was he located in Mexico? How are they moving shit across? - I had one case where a guy got caught with two pounds of meth, state case. They told him you're gonna have to introduce Britt. So he immediately takes me to this guy. So I start meeting this guy and I buy a pound of meth from him. He was a lawyer that got debarred from the Bay Area, and he was transporting dope all around for them. So, I mean, he was very inconspicuous looking, just driving around by his own business. And I'm buying meth from him now, I'm buying multiple pounds from him, and he's talking about my boss, my boss. So he turns around and says, I said, how much for heroin, can he get heroin? He's like, oh yeah, he can get heroin, my boss can get heroin. So I said, find out how much. So he's gets on Google phone and he starts doing an interpretation. I'm like, what are you doing? He goes, I don't speak Spanish. I go, oh, I'll talk to him in Spanish. So he's like, okay, so he hands me the phone. So the guy's like, who are you? His name's Mani. I said I'm Carlos, I'm the guy. He's like, oh, he's selling to you right now. I go, yeah, he's like, take my number down and start dealing with me. So that I start dealing with him. Now I'm buying multiple pounds of meth from him. I'm buying heroin from him. Started introducing me into his crew. Brother-in-law, ranch down in Stockton. That's where they were keeping it. The girlfriends, all this stuff. And they were keeping it at the girlfriends' houses. They were married. And what happens is we do a take down on the wire. We hit all doors that morning. This was like after probably nine months, over nine months, and he wasn't home. So we get everybody else but him. He's the ringleader. Yeah, him and his brother-in-law. So he takes off and goes to Mexico. He goes to Sinaloa. So then he calls me up and he was like, hey, Carlos, man, something happened. And I was like, I've been trying to get ahold of you what happened and he was like, do they rest it a bunch of my people? And I'm like, really? And he's like, yeah, I'm not coming back. And I was like, oh shit, okay. And he was like, I go, but I still need a plug. You know, a plug somebody that can provide you with dope. So I said, I still need a plug. And he was like, I got you. So he would introduce me to people up here in the Bay Area and I'd buy multiple pounds from these guys. So then I'll send, I'll be up on them. We'd be up on them. And then they start getting ripped. Right. So were you able to locate from the phone calls in Sinaloa? Were you able to contact the customer? Getting the money, too. Okay. So were in Sinaloa? I don't know. Kulea Khan? I'm not sure. Adiria Wato? I don't know, I'm sure. So you're talking to a cracker that knows a lot about Mexico. I know it sounds like it. So could you, in, well, of course you can locate anybody, depending on who you know in law enforcement, but could you. Electronic wise area able to locate them. But I don't know where it was. But electronic wise area. Who is able to locate them? Feds. 'Cause it was a federal thing. Right. So on, on our side. Yes. They were able to use their art technology to see into a foreign country where a guy was. They knew where he was. Okay. But they couldn't take him. Right. So they would then have to get the cooperation of the government. So you do an inner pull warrant. Right. You send it out, which it nothing happens with it. Not down there. Sometimes. But they got to really. If they don't like the guy, they'll be like, "Hey, we'll meet you at the border with him." Right. They do. But there was a reason why they gave him up and not anybody else. What? They do. They'll give him up now and then. You're right. If they really want you, obviously, if you're a big, well famous guy. He was born in San Jose, California. So he had dual citizenship. So I get to call like a year later from Arizona and they go, "Hey, is this your target?" And we're like, "Yeah, we got a warrant out for off of wire." He was, I said, he was moving hundreds of pounds. And they said, "Hey, we're getting all these 40-foot trailers coming in with snow glows." And inside the snow glows is liquid meth. And it's him. It's his shit. So they sent me pictures. Dude, it was just 40-foot containers. All of that work to put liquid meth in a snow glow. And it looked like a real Christmas snow glow, but it was all like a meth inside it. Yeah, I've heard that trick. So then he comes across. And he tried coming across like two years later and with his natural. Even with the Interpol warrant. Yeah. They grabbed him. Wow. Yeah. Why would he do that when he's got all these workers up here? I don't know. Crazy. Yeah, that's, we talked to a guy who's plug on this show. Whose plug was a scene-alow-a-nate American-born Mexican in Arizona. And he said, yeah, like Phoenix area. He's like, I got the sheriff in my pocket, paid off. And he was bringing in liquid meth. We, I hate to say, but we did have several occasions where we would hear about the keymaster. The keymaster will let you through it two in the morning. Make sure that lane you were in, stay in the next lane. Okay, so you're up on a wire listening. Yeah, yeah, it was Border Patrol. Customs, they were letting them, they would let them through. Who are you listening to on the wire when you heard that? The target was calling the transport guy and saying, hey, the gatekeeper, not keymaster. The gatekeeper will let you through. But you got to go between two and three in the morning and that lane you were in last time, you go one to the right and he'll be waiting. So one time we, on the wire, one time on that wire for that guy, the guy who went back to Sineloah, he was bringing a truck back. And they were talking about the get put in in the gas tank. It was a big one-ton truck. And they were talking about how you have to get gas right away because the gas tank's full of, there's a very small gas tank inside it. And we were able to figure out who it was because a couple of other trips he took, we were able to get it off a license plate reader and we were like, okay, that's the truck. So it came through and he got pulled over to secondary and he goes, oh, my uncle's working tonight. And his uncle was, was a border. - Order patrol. - But they still busted it? - They busted him and they got the bullet patrol agent after when the take-down didn't happen right away. - I see. - So they ended up getting them both. They were able to get their phones. But he was, he was the gatekeeper. - And he was just waving them in. - Yeah, waving them through. - Because you, that's what they'll do is like, you'll put one car that's dirty with a pound of weed in it and they'll secondary it, the dog hits on it, they let all the other cars behind it go for a little bit. So you're sitting behind that with a loaded vehicle and you're like, fuck, clear. - Go, go, go, baby. - Yeah. - That's it. - Oh, I love when people get away with crime. I gotta be honest with you. I love when loads of dope get through. - Dude, I hate the government so much. - For me, it's a game. - It's just a game. - It is. And a lot of the real crooks act like it. They're like, I got caught on this one. - They kind of give a grin. - Yes, a grin, like kind of like, I got caught slipping. And nothing personal, dude. I take nothing personal when it comes to this stuff. I really don't. - Dude, you busted so many guys. You saw so many people get surprised. - Yes. - 'Cause you were carless. You had this alter ego. Because you're basically lying for a living. You're going on everyday pretending to be somebody else. - Correct. - Which was easy to be because I grew up in that environment. - Yeah, you had family members that were in the game. - Oh, my friends were in the game. I had family members. When I dropped out of school at 15. And I went to work. I was living with a family member. We were doing construction. Our whole family would do swimming pool construction. He worked at a bar and he, at night, and he'd sell the bindles. Remember the little paper bindles? The little snow seals? - Coke. - Yeah, he would sell those all the time. So I lived with him. So he ended up, because he ended up picking up with a bunch of NFL players that were in that area. - The 49ers. - Who else? - So they would go into that bar, but I would wake up. to people beating on the door, like at three in the morning. And I would be like, five. But I was a little kid, dude. I'm like 16 years old. You're like, Joe Montana? - I answer the door. - What are you doing on my door? - I answer the door, and there'd be some big ass fucking football player saying, "Hey, go get your uncle for me now." Yeah. - Did you get an autograph? - No. I knew all those guys from that. But-- - You imagine if Jerry Rice, if you sold Coke to Jerry Rice, you have to tell me if your uncle sold Coke to Jerry Rice, please, he didn't know. But there'd be these big ass football players, and it was so funny 'cause they were like little kids. Back in that day, you didn't make a lot of money as a football player, compared to what you do now. These guys lived in the same area and everything. But they'd be like, "Hey, man, give me a half ounce. I'll catch you tomorrow for it. I just need it right now." And I'd pawn my ring, dude. - I would be sleeping there, all right, let me go get it for you. - Yeah, you definitely could have got into the game like you have the wiring for it. You have the environment for it. You got the Brawlick, but you just, you know, thank God. - It just wasn't my thing. I was around it. I watched it all the time, but it just wasn't my thing. I wasn't, I wasn't like a big anti-drug guy. I just didn't do it, man. I just didn't-- - Oh, I meant, you could have got into the game. - Yeah, but I just didn't get into any dope, and I just didn't get into any marketing for it, or I just didn't. - Yeah. So you worked all kinds of crazy stories, like all kinds of crazy, like stolen car rings, you posed as like a fence. - Yeah, we did a fencing operation in Colma, just outside San Francisco. It was a warehouse, ATF ran it. DEA worked was the other group that assisted CHP, San Francisco PD, Daily City PD, and it was just this tight-lipped group. Nobody knew what we were doing. We did it for a year and a half. And ATF brought a bunch of these, I call them mercenaries, they bring them over, and they just sprinkle them out into the area. - Yo, talk to us about what mercenaries are. This will fucking blow your mind. - They get paid to go out and find customers, or client tell, to draw in, and they get a hotel, they get a car rent, rental, and they go out, and they just hit the bars, hit the gambling shacks, hit all the places where they know they can find somebody, and the whole thing was, I was Carlos, I was up at a warehouse. It was me, Jared, Luis, Alex. There was a bunch of us that were the fensors, but I was kind of like the main fencer there. - So these mercenaries are snitches, they're paid. - That's all they do. - They're paid, literally-- - They're being caught really bad. They do some time, and then they work for the feds. - And they get paid a salary? - They get paid a salary. - They're literally employees. - When they're working, correct. - Okay. - So they get brought up to San Francisco for, they brought up San Francisco, probably for eight months that time. - So they're in this instance, they're trying to get people in to buy, under the guise of buying stuff. - It's going down, okay. - They're going in their sandhays, they're scanning Carlos, got a warehouse up in coma, and he's buying guns, dope, and stolen cars. - If you got it, we gotta buy it for you. - We gotta quake sale. So I would get these guys calling me from everywhere on my burner phone and saying, "Hey, so-and-so told me to call you. "I got a car, I got a gun, I got a rifle." I'd be like, okay, come on up. And I had a whole rules, the whole rules is when we had that operation going at the warehouse, you didn't just show up, you called. 'Cause I would tell them, you don't want somebody seeing your business so you don't pull up here and beat on this door. You call me and I'll give you when it's appropriate for you to come inside. So we'd have cars rolling in, roll up door comes down, they bring out what they got, we buy it, you know, we had like 10 grand at a time. We'd buy dope, we'd buy guns, we'd buy stolen cars, and it just fucking took off. It just took off. My phone was ringing all night long, all morning, all morning long. Hey, I just stole the car, I gotta bring it to you. I'm like, I'm not there till five, man. You gotta come at five. I don't know why I'm gonna put this thing. I don't know where you're gonna put it, dude. Come at five. There's another guy I would call. I got two rifles I wanna sell. It'd be like, okay, you're gonna be around six. I'll call you one when you can come in. But. - And you guys that are built this warehouse out? - It was a warehouse inside a warehouse. So it had like rooms all the way around it with cameras and joysticks zooming in and out and audio and a whole crew that would immediately, this wall would come down, never had, never happened. But this wall would come down and they'd be all, they were all strapped ready to go all geared up. - You guys built the movie set. - That's what it was. And it was outside too, and we'd have a whole crew of outside people that would follow those cars in, follow those cars off, get the license plates, get pictures of them, follow them to, if they want to a residence or something, 'cause we were doing search once later. They went for a year and a half. I think we ended up with 135 bodies, just off of those. That's fucked. A lot of guns, a lot of rifles, a lot of stolen cars. I mean, I would get guys a call up and go, open up the roll-up door and they would steal a car from the dealership up the street and they come flyin' in with it. Or they'd come in with a car that was kind of wrecked and I'm like, dude, it's got a dent in it. CHP tried to stop me in Oakland. I hit the car. I hit the CHP car to get here. But CHP took all the vehicles, went and parked them somewhere. And then when this whole operation was over, they called all the people up and said, "Hey, you're stolen car, we have it for you." Yeah. That's insane, dude. So none of those people, they're all dead to rights. They're on camera. There's audio recordings of them. No, everybody's pleading out. No, I did the prelims on the state cases for the stolen cars. I did all the fed cases for the dopant guns. No, they, they, they. So to most of those-- They plied right away. Is that most of the gun and dope cases went federal? They did all of them did. Yes, just the stolen cars. What were state cases? Yeah. And you don't do any time for stolen cars, right? I always recommend to people. Salmiteo County, you might. San Francisco, you wouldn't, but Salmiteo County, you might. A minute. A minute. Yeah, everywhere, like, even up in Oregon where I did time, you know, everybody that was in there, I'm in here for, what do they call it, like-- Joy-writing. Yeah. When you steal a car, they can get you for joy-writing because they didn't see you specifically steal it. Yeah, yeah. They call it like a DMV, no DM, unauthorized use of a motor vehicle. Oh, OK. That's how they, you know, UMV. And I'm like, dude, this is a great crime. Everybody, dude, you're doing, like, County time. Yeah. So if anybody's listening out here, I can't recommend hard stuff enough, dude. But these ones would bring them to me. They'd tell me where they stole it. They told me how they got into it. They told me they'd be like, hey, this is what we did to the ignition. They're going to have to fix it, so they stole the car. There's so many stupid-ass criminals. And then some people were bringing me-- there's these companies that you can buy a car and then you can rent it out. Touros. Touros. They bring me touros. And I'd be like, there's a fucking tracker on this thing, dude, get this thing out of here. Dude, I'm the cops. Get out of here. Yes. How stupid are you? Because Coleman didn't know we were doing it. And Coleman and Daily City, they would get tips. Like, someone would call and be like, hey, my humor was stolen. And it's pinging at this warehouse. So we'd be like, get this fucking thing out of here. You see him want to blow the-- We didn't want Coleman showing up and say, what are you guys doing? And you also would get guys to get arrested in San Francisco and Daily City and be like, hey, there's this dude Carlos up in Coleman, man. I can hook you up with him. He's buying all kinds of stolen goods, guns, dope, cars. So we'd have to vet those out and be like, oh, yeah, we're looking into it. You know, like, now call us and say, oh, yeah, we're looking into it. We know who he is. So you're Carlos. That's your-- That was one of the names I used mainly, yes. And you have a family. Would you ever be out with your family on weekends and run into a guy and be like, hell, you're the guy that put me in jail? You're not Carlos? Yes. They knew right away. When they get arrested, it comes out in discovery. Right. But I would think you've got to keep it yourself hidden on your free time, right? Because-- I did. I kept a very low profile. Yeah. Yeah. I had been in stores and stuff and seen somebody. And I was like, oh, fuck, I'm going to go out the back. Did you keep the tool on you? I carried that thing if I put my garbage out. I want somebody to decide they won't pay back. Yeah. Who-- let's talk race. What race in the Bay Area's commit in the most crime? Well, I was sort of kidding, but I love that you're taking a seriously-- No, it's like you're-- Like, if you wanted to look and see what race would be, it would just be the cops aren't proactive anymore. They're reactive. So you can never say that the police department-- San Francisco PD is picking on a certain race. Because that's very diverse. Things are so bad, they're reactive to a crime. Before we would go out and find crime, they don't find it no more. Now it's like, hey, there's a car being broken into at the corner of Franklin and Turk. Can some units respond? Yeah, but you said before we started filming that you were-- you're for these flock and license play camera readers. And you said it's reduced crime by 40% in the city. So that is a way-- maybe that's why you don't think they're reacting anymore. Because they don't have to. They're just sitting behind a-- But this is my opinion, just my opinion. Policing has became a reactive thing. Right. After like Floyd and stuff like that nobody wants to get complaints on you nobody wants to I remember When I was at narcotics. I was on a HUD unit housing urban development unit We did all the they were projects and now they're housing developments, but that's all we did and We would get complaints Every day he broke my door. He cracked my door. He did this. He did that and They're all legit investigations Now you get those complaints and you've got watchdog groups Going after you calling IA you need to look into this so a lot of the cops. I think have more of a Reactive Thoughts instead of proactive Yeah, but you said it crime on the one hand you're saying things have gotten so bad But then on the other hand you say crimes way down. Right. No, which is crime is down. No, but I'm saying Crimes down, but I'm saying like when it comes to the mindset of the officer like If you stop somebody in a tenderloin and they're injecting or smoking fetinal through on a foil They're giving them a ticket Give them a parking ticket and they reach in their pocket and pull out 20 of them and put it with the other 20 and push it in there Do I really want to stop if I see them doing that? Yeah, good point. So you guys just crimes down because maybe you're not looking for as much crime Yes, before you would go out and search you'd hunt you'd hunt now. It's more Reactive stuff if somebody says there's someone smoking fet in all in the corner of Eddie and Taylor you're gonna go out there and deal with it But like I said when I was getting my dope Weight out in broad daylight They're driving by Because it's like the fuck I want to do yeah, I want to go spend and I'm not saying that towards them in a bad way I'm saying that I feel society has made it Has made it so much easier For breaking the law that it That it makes them want to think like Do I want to grab this guy with some dope and spend four hours on a report and a booking and he's getting out before I get off my shift I'd hate to think that it's like that, but It feels like it yeah on the one hand you're right low-level crime like street-level drug dealing injecting using the cities have just given up Cops have given up. I mean because it's exhausting. It's like it's never ending and it's nothing that's going to Get any better No with what we're doing now. It's like they put a cop at Target and he just they just walk out all day and they're like It's only six hundred dollars for this stuff. Give me a ticket. No put it all down and fucking stop And then they'll come back out like two hours later with the same amount. It's like it's like it's like doing math He's like checking the receipts. He's like oh, yeah, you're right. This is under 900 bucks You're good you're good to go. It's just it just sucks. Yeah, it just really sucks. I mean it it makes you feel like Before when you arrested somebody I felt good when I arrested a user back in the day Because I was like I'm doing you a favor dude. Yeah, you are a mess And I'm gonna put you somewhere for a minute and you just give you some time to think I'm not a big incarceration everybody goes to jail. I don't think like that But you're gonna have a timeout maybe get some clarity and I didn't feel bad about it Now I'm seeing that you're not going to jail You can get stopped every single day doing dope and every single day you're gonna get a fucking ticket And it might turn into warrants later for not showing up to court But the courts don't really care about that. Yeah, they don't care about that you have 50 tickets All right for using it. It's like We're stuck America's stuck it can't decide if it wants to be full totalitarian or Completely dystopian. So you've got these these pretty soon to be drone cameras that can spy on everybody I violate everybody's fourth amendment rights. I drive by a camera and it can read everything Where I've been and it's that's like, you know straight up Chinese big brother nightmare shit But and San Francisco has all that But then you allow shoplifting and open-air drug use and people shitting on the so which one is it guys like why why do I have to live in a digital prison? If I also still have to step over dead people in San Francisco. That's true. You know what I mean? No, you're absolutely right when it comes to that I like that the real-time crime center they have with all the flock and drones and license plate readers I like that they can respond immediately for violent crimes. Yeah robberies Car break ins because when you get a car break in if somebody bips your car They do 30 that night Right they come over from Oakland they come over from other cities and they'll ride through and they'll just hit air And then they'll pull up to some lot and they'll just push out it looks like Like a dump Because it's all the shit they don't want. It's all the luggage and everything that they after they sift through it All the purses all the jackets and shoes and all this shit. Okay for people who don't know what bipping is This is a very San Francisco Bay Area specific criminal Racket tell us what the bit phenomena of bipping means it's going through and breaking into cars And you're gonna have a lot of it in San Francisco because of tourism These tourists don't understand they come from the airport and they're like let's hit pair 39 And they leave while they're luggage it's going out of the wharf It's it's a it's a lovely white family from Iowa and they're like we want to come see how I watch the seals out on the pier And yeah, and they come back and all the shit's gone right and and And what'll happen is you'll listen to dispatch and they'll say hey There's a white Lexus with stolen plates on it. It's going through the northern. It's breaking into cars Well, the cops can't chase the car because it's a property crime Because then that car will take off and hit somebody and the cops are gonna be responsible for it Now that you'll hear all day long now that cop is now that cars by pair 39 Now that cops by now that cars by the marina now that cars over by golden gate park It'll be the same damn car and they know that all I gotta do is get on the wrong side of the road or something and punch it They're gonna back off me wow They don't want you chasing them. They don't want you boxing them in That's why the real trend crime center you put a drone up above them and you watch them break into cars As soon as they stop to get gas or they get hungry because they've been Breaking into cars all day you grab them. I've worked up on an appetite. Yes. Wow. Okay, so Basically your it's cars of let's face it usually black kids from the East Bay Coming in and they're just looking for Luggage that's visible. They're looking for valuables that are visible in a car. You will see them pull up Two three cars in it to tandem And they'll look in windows the car. So jump in the car. They'll look in windows the cars They'll jump in the car and then they'll circle back around. They'll be like at that one. There's got luggage in it And then they go up and they do they use the things that the cops use to break your they'll just pop the window They they're in and out. They'll do you window punch. Yeah, they climb inside pull all the luggage out Yeah, and then they're gone then they're gone and have you ever gotten a wire up On are these organized rings like do they actually go sell to like You know hire up fences. They will fence the stuff. Yes. They will fence the stuff if you go down the market street You can get rid of all your electronics down there You get rid of all your iPads your laptops your cell phones. They'll buy all that stuff. But is there anything On a grander scale like do they sell to Asian gangs that repackage the stolen goods and ship it overseas or anything like that What it usually do does it'll go down to market street and you'll have You have some Asians. You'll have some Hondurans Some venezuelans and what they'll do is they'll Store all that stuff and they usually below it into trailers and send it out the country So those will be like big containers with tons of electronics cell phones laptops iPads Or they'll be sending out If you if you're talking about retail theft they're going to go into union square and they're going to steal all the 500 dollar tennis shoes and sweatsuits and all that stuff and they'll buy that as well for like 10 bucks And for doping just to get as high and those will get loaded up too and those get sent out and right out of the port of San Francisco Yeah, wow Did you ever work any big cases like that? One of my buddies did you work the huge one Where they ended up being russians across the bay they hit a warehouse a huge warehouse it was so big Might be wrong in this but like CVS Longs or Walgreens Maybe gap went in and they had to scan all the stuff and load it onto pallets and wrap it Like that's mine. That's mine. That's from us. That's from us. That's from us Hey, yeah, and it was massive. They brought in like 40 foot trailers and we're just wrapping pallets and loading it up And that's all from bipping and theft retail theft all from retail and that's way better than drugs if you're a criminal You're like this is huge money. I would drug it's drug money But with somebody something that gets me a fourth of the time in prison Yes, and and and I was doing things like We would hook up with Walgreens we'd hook up with Gap and then what would happen is I would dress disheveled And I would go into the corner markets in the tenderloin and I'd be like I'm working at a warehouse on Walgreens I can get what do you need they're like give me axe spray give me toothpaste give me shampoo Give me and I would walk in with boxes of stuff They give me pennies on the dollar for it So what would happen is end of good one is if I acted like I was a dope fan and I'd be like, "Hey, can you get one more?" guys to sell to me. They'd be like, oh, I got it. Yeah, hey, take care of him. So then if I bought dough, the city attorneys would go after the store. Okay. And they would tell the store like, hey, dude, you're you're selling stolen shit. You're buying stolen shit, which you're reselling. Mm-hmm. And you're letting people deal drugs inside your inside your store. And these are people's, the reason this is so fascinating is because this is Baltimore Rust Belt level crime in a place that's got more wealth than entire continents practically. We're talking about the Bay Area. We're talking about trillions and trillions of dollars in wealth and this sliver of the city that's just packed with people and their whole goal is to do crime and get high. Yeah. It would, it's you'll go down to Marcus Street. It'll be retail theft. It'll be just shits all over and they're just dealing. People are coming in selling them stuffs and they're just taking it and the stuff they want, they'll take it to their car and the other stuff they'll resell it out there. And they're selling it for and nobody's arresting them. You arrest them, but then it becomes an issue when you take the cease of property. You got to figure out what the, where the property belongs and stuff. And it's, that's almost impossible. Who's got the time? It's like a victimless. They don't spend any time in jail. No. Do you see what this is like? San Francisco is a microcosm of what the United States is becoming. Both economically, right? You have this vast, unbelievably unimaginably wealthy elite. And then they're letting the underclass literally kill each other and wither away. And yeah, you know, it's completely dystopian. It's like out of a sci-fi novel. 2014's Proposition 47 in California. That was to turn users into misdemeanors and anything under $950 that was stolen is a misdemeanor, which is a sideable offense with a ticket. Once they did that, it was game over, game over. Should we go sell drugs in the tenderloin? Like this podcast shit. This might be for the bird's dog. I'm, I mean, I'm cool. I'm cool off this. We could just go bubble. Yeah, it's, it's quite a circus out there. All right. So yeah, tell me about that story about the Hondurans with stolen cars going up to Seattle. Well, they weren't stolen cars. What it was was they would get X-Fives. X-Fives has a space beneath the seats. So they would cut out the seat and put trap doors in there. And they would load it. And they would go to, it was for Washington, Portland. They would, they would drop gop off there. Oh, I see. Okay. Larger mounts. Okay. These are BMW X-Fives. X-Fives. Okay. So the drivers would dress in three P suits with ties. And they knew that if like they would have, like you would hear from the wire, like CHP looked up, pulled up next to them, looked over at them, were like, that's, that's, that's, that's a, that's a normal person. It can't be done tie. That's a pertinent person. So would you follow wires? Would you follow loads of dope from wire taps all the way up through Oregon into Washington, all the way from San Francisco? Yes. And you would also notify them over there, the feds that are over there in Washington, Oregon, and let them know. And we would have calls with their people. So they would do spin-offs, and they would go up on their wire off of it. That's the easiest way to go up on a wire tap. Wire taps are really hard to do, to get, to get a judge to sign. But if you do spin-offs and you're like, a, this guy, Jose keeps calling this guy, man, well, in California, and he keeps bringing him dope up, like large amounts, like, like, 15 pounds of crack, 20 pounds of meth, you know, like coming up there on a regular basis, the judges will allow the, the phone. Okay. So tell us about getting a wire. Would you actually, did you know judges, were, did you call up judges and get wire taps authorized? Or was that your like supervisor? That would be the feds would do that. Okay. So these, none of these taps were local or state level wire taps. We've done some state ones, but we would usually go through the feds. Why is that? Cause it's just easier. It's easier and cheaper. Okay. Feds got money. For sure. So they could spend, dude, going up on a wire can cost you upwards more than 30 grand a month with, with the monitors, and the transcribers, and all the other shit. And that's not including buying the dope. Right. So, because they have to, how do they do it? They have somebody in a federal building, take the number, and can you explain how they, how that works? The mechanism for actually. Yeah. What you would do is you would build a case up and you get hooked with an A USA, which is a federal lawyer. Right. And you, they would connect with the case with you and they'd work it alongside you. So I would go out and do buys in the, let's say I do buys in 10 to 1 or I do buys in the peninsula, buying multiple pounds. And then they, they have to write an affidavit to show that this guy's a drug dealer. And not just based off of me, it has to be based off of other things as well. You need, you need dirty phone calls, you need numbers that are from other drug dealers that are purchasing from as well. So I can't just go up on, buy dope from a guy and go click his phone. We're going up on it. It's a lot more intense than that. So you have to give the A USA all that proof. You're working directly with them. You're writing that affidavit and you're like, grids out there buying multiple pounds from this guy. One of the numbers we have corresponds with a person who's out on two open cases for large amounts of narcotics. We followed this guy around. There's a whole bunch of stuff you have to do. You have to, you have to exercise a lot of different things that I went through this. I went through this. I went through this. Here's, look at, I got all his meth in pictures. I can't follow him because he cleans himself up when he's driving. He's sending other people. He's using multiple cars. So we can't put trackers on the cars. Just stuff like that. And the judge will read the affidavit in Washington. The lawyers are washing clear. And then it'll come to a judge here. Once they clear it in Washington, it'll come to a judge here, local, whatever like northern district of California. And that judge will read it and decide whether he signs it or not. Fascinating. So everything has got to go through Washington, DC first. Interesting. Dude, you're like the ball guy. You're like Herc from the wire, dude. I'm talking to the real life Herc, man. But I never did that. I would do a lot of reports and a lot of to my buys. I do buy reports and all this stuff and add stuff to affidavits, but I never wrote a whole, dude, affidavits like to be 150, 200 pages. Just to get one wire to do one wire. And then you go up on that person and then you find out who their supplier is. So now you got to do this whole thing again to get up on that person. You've got your dirty call from the guy you were up on going, but then you have to tie him into other people and you have to do all this shit. Right. Did you ever have to get dirty? I'm talking about like really beat the shit out of someone, like manhandle him. Did you ever get, yeah, did you ever get written up for being too rough with a suspect? No, I've never got, I've never got written up for excessive force. God, I would have been, if I was a cop, I, they would have had to take my badge. I was, I was, I was choking guys out in the tenderloin that were holding mouth dope. And then I was told not to do it anymore. Because they used to keep the keep all the crack in their mouth. Yeah. So what you do, you'd walk up behind them. They'd show you crack in their mouth thinking that you want to sell to them. Then you'd spend behind them and you put them in a figure four. But they said, I said, I was saving their lives because they're gonna ingest that crack and they're like, no, no more that. So was that one of the, because you, you guys consulted on training day. You remember in the movie training day where Denzel, it's soup dogs in the wheelchair and he's selling dogs and everything. We were there for that filming. Okay. And then he sticks the pen in his mouth and he gets them to pick it out. Because he swallowed it. That's, that was one of our thoughts because of the Hondurans. They do it. Yeah. Funny thing, you'd pull up to the Hondurans and they'd look at you and you look at them and the minute you crack your door, then do the water and they drink it and then you drive away. And they're like, motherfucker, I got all these shit in my gut. I gotta go puke it out and shit it out or do something. You have 500 bucks and that's all you had to do is pop the door and they'd be looking at you holding their water and then they don't do it. So this is not, they don't sound as sophisticated as like the corner crews from Baltimore that really they have one, they have the dope hidden behind you know, an old tire right in an alleyway. They got another guy holding the money. They don't have to be right because they don't stay in jail. But a lot of times like on a buy, if I did a buy, the guy would tell them, hey, give me a 50 shot. He's buying a 50 shot. He'd hand it to me out hand of the money. He'd hand someone else the fucking money and then I'd tell him to take all three. It'd be conspiracy. Right. But they would hide the dope in underneath the cars with magnets and stuff like that. But I mean, you don't really have to. I mean, the consequences were very very low. Was there ever a case you stumbled on that like shocked you by like who was selling drugs or the magnitude of something? The cases were weird. It's like you could do a case thinking, okay, I'm going to get this guy for a couple pounds and then you hit his place and he's got 50 pounds and you're like, oh shit. You know, and everything is time. I mean, everything's timing. We've hit places, we hit a place in a realto, California. We had an informant that told us it was dope down there at this ranch. And DEA was gonna do it, but then DEA boss was being shitty down there. So he was pushing back. And so we were gonna do it with the HSI. And then they got mad that HSI was in. So we just said, fuck it, we're just gonna go do it. So we told the realto police, hey, you wanna do a search warrant with us? They're like, absolutely, we'll make entry. So they did. - And you're, you're, what jurisdiction? - Down in Southern California, like Central Valley. - Right. - We altos in the Central Valley, right? So we tell these guys, hey, we're gonna hit this house. Can you, and they're like, oh yeah, we'll do the, we'll do the SWAT hit, because they wanna work. So we do the house, we're fucking searching like crazy. And we finally figured out, it's in the wall of a, it was 82 pounds of meth inside a wall. There was this little, these little bookshelves and one of them slid open and they would just drop it, drop it, drop it, and open up the other one and drop it. So we tore the wall down, pulled 82 pounds of meth out of there. But you hit the stash. They just, they just came, it just came. So they hadn't dispersed it yet. So it's everything's timing. You might hit one and get dry and you're like, fuck this guy's a big drug dealer or you might hit one and go, oh, fuck dude, and they were like, yeah, it just came in. So, and you've hit houses where you come up nothing? Yes, and we, we told Realtto, you wanna take this? And they're like, take what? Or like, you take the 82 pounds, it's your case. 'Cause we don't wanna give it to the feds 'cause they were fighting back and forth among themselves. They're like, can we? We're like, oh, hell yeah, dude. You see the headline the next day. Realtto police take 50 pounds of meth. Two, 82 pounds. Yeah, but only 50 showed up. Those motherfuckers are, those little bump towns. Oh, that's out of the sticks, dude. Oh, they're so dirty out there, dude. That's out there, dude. Did a lot of police officers have drug problems? The only police officer I know that had drug problems were pill-induced from doctors. Opiates. There you go, that's how it started. Opiates are worse, man. Opiates is probably 90% of the people that are in the tenderloin, that are doing pills, first got 'em from the doctor. And the doctor took 'em away and they had nothing to do. And then they got fucked up because they went down to tenderloin, they started buying their vikin' ins and their oxies and all this shit. And they were like, hey, try this one, it's better. And the next thing you know, they go to heroin, next thing you know, they go to fentanyl and they're fucking done. So those just zombies, those withering away skeleton fentanyl addicts, could have started as like normal citizens that just got pills from the doctor. - 1,000%. I would see like cleaned up attractive people going in there and I'd see them like four months later and I'd be like, oh fuck. - No way. - You're done, you're done, yeah. I've got that 1,000 mile stare, yeah. - Yeah, it goes back to like kind of really what I've been thinking lately is like our government, on a high level is trying to kill us. So did you ever see any people like that make it out? I get clean, did you ever arrest junkie and then later on he calls you and thanks you. - Oh, I've seen 'em on the street where they stopped me. I didn't know who they were. But man, far and few between, far and few between. And that's why you got to get to them before they get to that point too. They need that clarity, they need that time out before they get to that point. I mean, you'll see these people just laying in the gutter with their mouth open, water's running down the gutter on them. They got shit all over them, piss all over them. They can't take care of themselves and then you have liberal people saying they have a right to do what they want. They're not even there, man, mentally. - Yeah. - They need to be taken somewhere and they need to be cleaned up and have the opportunity. - Well, you wouldn't treat an animal that way. - That's correct. - You know what I'm saying? - That's correct. - I didn't think of it like that, yes. - You wouldn't, if a dog was like bleeding to death on the street and you're just shitting itself, you would go clean it up and you would say animal control. - And a lot of it's self-medicating. You've got a lot of people with mental issues and what they do, they gravitate toward the tenderloin and they're self-medicating 'cause they're not getting the right medication that they need it. 'Cause there's nobody there to give it to them. If you try to give somebody rehab, you'll see in court. Your honor, I put a request in, we're standing by waiting to see if any beds are available. Dude, if you can't shove somebody into rehab that day. - Right, dude, it's not gonna work. - It's not gonna work, it's not gonna work. - Yeah. - Well, that's what I mean. If you look at what they did with San Quentin, it's basically a television studio now. Like it's not even a hard prison anymore. They're having a basketball day. - I used to go there when it was hard. I used to go there for, we used to have to do hearings. So if somebody got a parole violation, we'd have to do a hearing on them, like show up and say, yeah, this is what he did. So you can't wear jeans there and I always wear jeans. And they'd be like, dude, you're wearing a fucking paper suit. So they'd put me in a white zip up paper suit and I'd have to walk through the yard in a paper suit. - Crazy. - I got a funny story at San Quentin. Back in the day, we arrested these people on wires. We took a bunch of them down. There was one at San Quentin that we were taking federal. So I go out there, me and another guy. And I was driving a, I was back in the day. I had a 535 BMW blacked out lower. It was a seizure car that we seized from a drug dealer. And that was my car. - Nice. - So I go legal? - Yeah, because the seizures, we would take everything that you can't see them now, but you used to take their property, their vehicles, all their stuff, as long as you can prove that it was bought and with money. Now they auction them off. - Right. - So that's the car I drove, so I go into San Quentin and I go, hey, I got a writ to take this guy out of here and take him federal. And they're like, okay, and they open the gates up. They go drive all the way around that baseball field and they're gonna go over by death row. And they're gonna, he's gonna be over there. So I'm driving through to this BMW's like, a fucking 90 or a 92 BMW, old as hell. And these guys are just running next to me on the car. I'm like, what kind of car is that? - So you're in the prison, within the prison walls, driving. - Oh no, I'm driving right through the yard. - That's fucking wild. - And they're running up to me going, what kind of car is this? And I'm like, it's a BMW, they're like, oh my God. It's like, they'd been there so long. - Yeah. - They thought I was in a spaceship. They thought I was flying in in a spaceship, too. And I picked this guy up, I shackled him and put Ankle Irons on him and put him in the car. And they were just lined up around it going, oh my God, like I could die tomorrow and I've seen it, dude. I've seen it, the BMW. - Yeah, now they're all on smartphones. Everybody's watching YouTube. Everybody's current now in the joint. But like, they turn that yard from like, people used to get butchered in there. - Oh yeah. - And now, everybody's on their best behavior. 'Cause like, hey, we get the Cal State tennis team coming in. You can look at this white girl. You got Jack material later. You can play tennis with her. - I was, I was, when I worked, I was a correction officer for three years prior to going to San Francisco, PD in San Mateo County. And we went up to San Quentin and went through a training thing with them for a few days. And, oh, I was out on that yard, dude. When that buzzer went off, if you didn't hit the wall, if you were in an inmate and you didn't get against the wall, they would just crank you up with a stick, dude. They, 'cause they'd be running to a fight and you'd hear the buzzers going off. And if you didn't grab a wall, man, they would lay into you with a stick and drop you. Because it was like, everybody hit a wall when the buzzer goes off. If you're standing out in the middle, you're a fair game. - Yeah, yeah, my brother's going there 'cause he coaches basketball at a school in the Bay. And he, they're about to go up there. And he just, he was like, yeah, they made me sign like a release form saying like, oh, we can like shoot through you. If we have to hit a guy and a riot, we can shoot that. I'm like, don't sign that, that's bullshit. Work around that. That's not cool. - Yes. - But my point is like, they turn that whole place around by like, changing the mentality of it. - It's not even a prison to rehabilitation. - Right, so like, if you can do that to those dudes, you can compassionately arrest these addicts in the tenderloin and make them, make them being a place like that and make them program. Clean them up, make them program. Send them through rehab, but you have to do it by force. - When I first was working at narcotics, we used to have these days, which we hated doing there were 11, 550 days. Anybody in an influence went. We hated it 'cause we were always doing like dealers, we weren't doing users, but they tell us you gotta do 11, 550 today, 'cause it was grant funded money from the government. So we'd go in there and grab a bunch of bodies, and if they were ingesting or smoking or whatever they were under arrest, we'd take them to this room down in the tenderloin and there would be people there and they'd be like, here's the deal. You go to jail today or you go to rehab today. We'd take you immediately to rehab and give them an opportunity to do it. Now, they're trying to find beds to put people in. I mean, you've got all this money that's being wasted and installing through nonprofits. and stuff, but you have nowhere to take these people, man. They have a thing called a reset center now in San Francisco that if you get caught using they can bring you up to it. But it's hard to bring a person up there who's high and then offer him programs and stuff. 'Cause you're considered not like in jail. - Yeah. - You're in a center. But as soon as they stay there for a period of time, like a dry and out period, like a drunken public, they could leave. You're not gonna get somebody high and then say while they're high, I don't wanna do this anymore. You gotta get the person that's been out for a while off the street to say, "I don't wanna do this anymore." - Yeah, you don't have to put the addicts in with the hardcore criminals. Keep them in their own separate, you know, just like they do with the showmos, keep them in a separate place, but they gotta be there against their will by force and they can't get drugs in there. And if you wanna get out, you gotta go to AA meetings and AA meetings every day and you gotta, you know, fill up booklists. - That's what they do at court. They're like, "Oh, you'll check in and do a day program." You can't do a day program. You need to be somewhere that you are there and you're gonna sit your time out and decide what you wanna do. - Yeah. - You know, you can't do that. If you 50-150 somebody, it's really hard to get someone 50-150 now, because they're so full and they don't wanna take people. Like, oh, he's able to care for himself. He's able to care for herself. Go ahead and let them, we're not taking them. - Yeah. - I mean, you see these guys and girls walk around middle of Market Street in front of cars and traffic and shit. How could you say they have a right to do that? I mean, they're gonna get hit and killed. Who's fault is that? - So they come from all over the United States. - Oh, yeah. I mean, over 50% of them when you arrest them are not from here. - And do they say they came to San Francisco to get high? - Yes. - 'Cause they can get high and not be arrested. - Yes. - Wow. - Yeah. - And the weather's nice. They could sleep on the street. I mean, California's got great weather. - So if you live in the Midwest or the East Coast, you'd die out there in the winters. - So they've just created a whole perfect, they've just created a perfect market for drug trafficking. - Well, sometimes you wonder, I don't know, but sometimes I wonder, did you create that for, did you create that to keep the cycle going, the money flowing? - Yeah. Well, that's the homeless industry is huge. I think so. - It's huge. - And all this housing that they built, especially in LA, they've given billions of dollars to real estate developers and entrepreneurs, right? They've given billions of dollars of tax money so they can build all this housing. There's plenty of housing, but nobody goes there. And if they do, they're getting high in the housing. - That's the thing is they put them in these SRO single-room occupancies. There's these little places in the tenderloin, plus you're keeping them in the tenderloin. You get them out of there, get them out of the area, get them where there's no drugs. And they put them in these single rooms with a bathroom in the hallway and-- - Oh, yeah, we've been up into one of them. - It's fascinating. - Yeah, it's terrible. Because all they're gonna do is stop breathing 'cause of fentanyl in their bedroom and there's no one there to save them. In San Francisco, they narcan people all day long. Cops narcan, firemen narcan, the citizens are narcanning people, and they're narcanning people two, three times a day. Because the whole thing about it is like, when you get high in fentanyl, your best high is when you're on the verge of death. When you're barely breathing is your best high. Dude, you narcan those people, they get pissed. They get pissed 'cause you fuck their high up. They get violent. 'Cause that's funerally-- - Because you fuck their high up. - That's gnarly, yeah. - So they really wanna feel like almost, like I almost OD'd. - I guess it's so you fork feelings, what they're saying, when they're just like following the light, man, at the gate. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's why people like DMT, 'cause it's like a death. It's like, oh, man, I was talking to God right there on my fentanyl high. - And then you shoved something up my nose and made me come out of it. - Fuckin' dickhead. - Do you think some of these guys with OD's drive the junkies? Like if you got a new package of fentanyl if you're a Honduran and somebody OD's on your shit, that means you got a bomb package, right? - Yes, yes. They're not afraid of it. If it's stronger, they're happier. - Did you worry about that at all? 'Cause you're bustin' all these buying all, makin' all these buys with, especially in the early days of fentanyl, where nobody knew what it was. Did you ever worry about contamination? - We were told that if you touch it or go through your skin and get you high in all this stuff, I dealt with it for so long I learned about it. When it's cut, you're not going to. If I touch my eyes, nose, or mouth, yeah, I'm going to get high. But if I put it on my hands and carry it, if they dump a gram of it in my hand, I'm good. And all I do is put it into like a dollar bill and throw it up. I just don't use alcohol because it'll pull it through the skin. I use water and soap when I wash it off. - Did you ever come into contact with pure fent? - Oh yeah, one time we cut a kilo open in DEA and thought it was a Coke. And then I go test it with the tester. It says fentanyl and we're like, oh shit. - It was a, yeah. - Damn, it was a pure kilo. - Good thing we didn't do a line. - And that's why people go, that's why people say, oh, they're cutting it with Coke. A lot of times they're not because the Hondurans don't understand. When some guy pulls up and says, hey, give me white. Give me a gram of white. I don't think I'm going to gram white fentanyl. So a lot of it's not cut with fentanyl. It's a lot of it is they're misunderstanding. There's a language communication problem. And they're getting fentanyl instead of Coke because everybody's getting fentanyl. - So could white fentanyl? I've never seen fentanyl. - Oh yeah. - But could you mistake that for Coke? - Absolutely. - It's fluffy, absolutely. It's got little chunks in it. It's like you cut it off a brick. - Wow. - Oh, absolutely. - That makes so much sense now. - Yeah, because everyone keeps saying, oh, they cut the Coke with fentanyl, no, they didn't. And there are some people that died. There are some people in San Mateo County who found a bag in a bar. And they snorted it thinking that they got Coke and they died, man. - Right, because nobody nowadays is dying from bad Coke, Coke, fentanyl anymore. - No. - So that might have never happened. - I don't think it did. I'm just, that's just my assumption is that it didn't. You go up and ask for white. They're gonna give you fentanyl. Yeah, you go up and ask for powder. - Okay, 'cause you know these guys. You know these underings. You've been over, you've spent time as a see, you know, an undercover with drug dealers. There's tons of on-durn informants who work for me. - Right. - They're not doing this, they don't intentionally want to kill people and they don't need to stretch, like they're making so much money selling fentanyl. I don't need to like stretch my cocaine out by diluting it with fentanyl. - No, no, no. It doesn't make any economic sense. - But when you arrest them, you run them through some questions and you tell them, "Hey, you know this shit's killing people?" And they go, "Yeah, I know, they'll tell you, I know." "I know this fentanyl's killing people." They'll admit it. But they're not being cut. They're talking about fentanyl alone. When I sell this shit on the street, yeah, I know it's killing people. - Right. But my point is like, it doesn't make any economic sense. Like, you know, my boomer dad used to be like, "Oh, be careful if you buy weed on the street. "They're sprinkling cocaine on it." - Yeah, dad, why would they sprinkle? - They're putting PCP in it. - You don't know how drug economics work. Let me take something that's expensive and put it on something that's less expensive and take a loss when I sell it to you. - Well, that's why cocaine, this is my opinion. This way I think cocaine's coming back into the picture. Because a lot of guys I was buying large amounts from, I was working major vendors out of, like, you know, Mexican cartel guys, I would hit them up for crystal and I'd buy five, 10 pounds of crystal. You got Coke, yeah, I got Coke. We didn't want to buy Coke 'cause it was so damn expensive. So for the feds, they have to pay for it. So we'll buy a lot of crystal and I'd ask them, they got Coke, they're like, "Oh, yeah, I got Coke. "I can get you Coke for 12,5 a kilo." I'd be like, "Okay, but they don't want to spend 12,5 a kilo for it. "They'd rather be buy crystal, man, if I buy multiples, "I was buying it for like 900 bucks a pound, "eat 50 a pound for multiples." So they're like, "No, spend that money on bigger volume." So I would ask them, you got fentanyl and they're like, "Oh, fuck, no, dude." My guys down there are staying away from fentanyl. 'Cause they said to do it, it brings a lot of drama. - See? - It does, and that's, I think that's why you're starting to see Coke come back up again. - Right. - Because you're starting to, before it was like, we'd be on the wire and we'd stop a load vehicle. And we'd hear it coming up. What we do is we'd stop it with CHP on a traffic violation and they'd have like 50 pounds of meth, 10 pounds of heroin, two kilos of Coke. They didn't have a lot of Coke. Now you're starting to see Coke come back up again. - Do they, so a load vehicle, would that be like a semi-truck? - No, it'd be a car. - Okay, so they would, and that's loads that just hopped the border and they-- - Or it's leaving LA in the guy's order and on the phone. I need 50, 10, and 5, and we'd know it's coming up. - So LA is the big hub. - Central Valley is, LA is Central Valley, mainly Central Valley. - So you've seen cocaine have a resurgence? - I have. - Okay. - Well, they're also producing a ton of it in South America now. Like way more, so they got to move it a lot more too. Of the Mexican organizations, I don't like to call them cartels 'cause that word is way overused. But, seen a Loa, and what was another big region? Did you see a lot of people from Michoacán? - Yes, a lot of Michoacán, a lot of Sinaloa. - Yeah. - The Michoacán, Michoacános, like the Crystal Math. - Yeah, they really run the superlabs down there. They'd make 500 pounds a day of it. They have superlabs that make 500 pounds a day. - Got it here. - And that's why I was buying it for so cheap. We went up on a wire. We did a wire on the Hells Angels. And it really wasn't the Hells Angels. We thought we were going up on the Hells Angels. All it was was two people, the president and the Sergeant Arms were dealing math. We thought it was gonna be the organization, but it wasn't. So it was, to say we went up on the Hells Angels, we went up on two guys that worked, which we thought it was gonna be the organization. They were buying all the stuff from the Nortoniels that we knew. So we were grabbing the Nortoniels. And when we took it down, we took down the two members. And when we took down a bunch of Nortoniels. But they had like tons of meth, tons of coke, rifles, grenades, that, all this shit. But it ended up being a Latin cartel thing. Or like you said, don't say cartel, but an organization. A Latin organization that was bringing it in. - Right. - Yeah. - So there are a lot, obviously, Nortoniels, they're allying culturally with the Mexicans. - Correct. - Yeah. - And I would grab guys, you knew if you grabbed somebody, if somebody sold me a kilo of coke, or sold me multiple pounds of meth and we arrested him. And he didn't want to say anything. And he's like, I'll do my time. And he'd plead guilty and go. You knew his family members. 'Cause they're not gonna talk about their family members. They're gonna suck it up and eat it. But if they talked, then it's like, okay, they're working with a group. And they don't want to go away. - Okay, that makes total sense. - Yeah, because I would flip a lot of guys, I would flip a lot of guys. We, you know, like, guys that even sold to me, they'd be like, can you introduce him to so-and-so? And they'd be like, fuck yeah, I will. I'm looking at 10 years. I'm gonna introduce him. - Right, okay, so of the people you arrested, I'm talking about, you know, people at a substantial level. Forget the Hondurans in the tenderloin. I'm talking about, like, people at a federal level or a state level that you bust. What percentage of them do you think you get to flip? Like, who talked? - On the co-operate level? It was everybody, but then it was nobody. - Because they didn't get no time. What the hell am I gonna talk to you for if I'm getting out tomorrow? And I'm just gonna drag this case out for a year. And then the judge is gonna tell me, don't do it again. - Even people that you got with quantity? - Yes, really. - Yeah. - It's not a violent crime. - So even if you caught a guy with two pounds of meth and the feds don't pick it up, that guy could be, that guy's not gonna face any states. - That's not a state time. - Hell, no, he's not gonna do a state time. And before you got your guy with the gun, federal and state, which is federal, we trigger lock 'em. They had a prior felony and they got caught with the gun. Dude, that was no go. They get in 10 years. They plead a five. Now he didn't use it, he didn't use it. He was gonna use it. He's not supposed to have a firearm, dude. There's so many guns out there right now. So everybody's got a gun. Okay, so you noticed over time, it was getting harder for you to flip guys at the state level because they knew that the consequences were way less. You're like, I'll do it. - And I could flip anybody federally unless his family was involved. - Okay. - I could flip anybody federally because they would go to their first appearance and their first appearance was, you're looking at 25 the life if you're found guilty of this in a trial. They'd be like, 25 the life and they'll be like, oh hell no, they told their lawyer, I wanna sit down. I wanna do a proffer. So on a proffer, they have to admit to what they did. - Right. - They don't talk about anybody else, but then they also have to talk about what they can do. - So would you get guys out facing federal time? Would you actually get them out of wherever they were locked up and get them out? - They would get locked up because even with the feds now, if it's a dope case, unless they're flight risk, they're gonna do their case outside. - Really? - Yeah. Unless it's some huge amount like your honor, you got caught with the 500 kilos or 100 kilos, and I know he's gonna flee. - Or if you're up on a wire, a lot of them went, unless they put the deportation hold on. - Right, so you get the deal. If you're in a legal immigrant, you get caught. It's an automatic ice hole, right? Unless you're a Honduran in San Francisco, 'cause you were saying those judges. - On state cases. - On state cases. - On state cases. But there were guys, we would do cases like I would buy like a pound and two pounds and five pounds, and we'd have somebody we wanted that knew him. We would pull him over and go, "Hey dude, here's the deal." The guy you're selling through Carlos is a cop. We're gonna do a grand jury on you, unless you come clean. We wanna sit down with you, we wanna talk about so-and-so. If we don't, we're gonna do the indictment, so you will see if that or won't come in your way. So the guy's like, "I'm not on paper or anything right now." No, you're not. I'll be there tomorrow morning. Just sit down and talk. - So there's drug dealers all over the Bay Area right now that are working and they're working. - Well, you gotta dance with the devil. I don't know if it's right or wrong. - I'm not judging, but I'm saying- - No, no, no, I'm just saying. There's a significant- - You're no good to me. If you're my informant, you're no good to me if you're not in the game. - Of course, you have to be- - Yes. - You can't. That's how you get people. You have to let them. That's the bargain that- - But they sign a waiver saying I will not sell drugs. I will not act as an agent of law enforcement. I will not do anything. So if they get caught, like there's nothing I can do, dude. And then like, well, and then the like, well, I'm working for you. I'll tell you defense, or he's not gonna say that in open court. - Okay, so when you have a C.I. out on the street at the state level, he's only allowed to sell drugs that you, like in controlled sales. - No, no. He can't sell drugs at all. Federal or state. - But then what- - We just tell them. We're telling you that you need to do X, Y and Z. - Okay, so one of those things you tell me- - We're telling you you can't sell drugs. - Okay, so one of those things you have them do. - Information, or intro. Intro's huge. - Oh, okay. - So what they say is I got this boy Carlos that I know blah, blah, blah, blah. And I always tell them like, some of them would screw up and go, he's my cousin. I'm like, dude, it's gonna come out on the cop after. Don't say you're my cousin. Say you know me and I've been asking and buying good amounts of dope from other people. Do you want me to get Carlos's number? Or do you want to hit Carlos up? I would get guys calling my burner phone and going, "Hey, so-and-so gave me your number?" Or someone gave me a number, who? I'm not gonna say. I heard you looking for a plug. I am. And they'd be like, okay, well, let's meet. Then I'd meet with them and they'd be like, what do you need? And I said, I'm buying X, Y and Z. And they'd be like, I could furnish that to you. Did anybody look at you and maybe not make you, but say, no, I'm good. Like did anybody like sniff you out and then back out of a deal that you were trying to set them up in? I really didn't on a big level. On the street, they're so fucking greedy and there's so many drug dealers out there. They'd say, nah, I ain't fucking with you. I'd be like, that's cool. I'll get it right from him. And then they'd be like, all right, all right. I'll sell to you. There's too many people out there. But on a bigger level, they want that sale. So you get it. Yeah, I just had to give a gav, man. I would tell them like, hey, my boy, that hooked me up, it's a fucking flake. I can't get him on the phone a lot. I'm a businessman, I move shit. When somebody needs something, I got to be able to provide a form. If I'm spending three days trying to get a hold of him, this ain't gonna work. And you have your tattoos out and-- And they would be like, they'd be like, okay, just call me. It's great, it's great every time. That's all it is, it's great. But I mean, I would dress like construction clothes, I had dirty clothes, I'd drive a truck with tools in the back, you know, whatever I needed at that time to, I would do a lot of things to help convince them. To look the part, yes. Yeah. Yeah, you had a fake scar down the side of your show. We were like, oh, we're out buying dope. We'd put fake scars on our face. We'd take permanent pan and draw a tattoo on our eye or something, you know, something that they'd look at you and go, hey man, what smells like Sharpie? But a lot of them would be, a lot of them I would tell them, like, hey dude, I got a good job. I'm making good money. And I'm in a union job and they're testing me. I ain't fucking doing dope. I'm making money off of dope. So if you want to sell me larger amounts, I'll buy them if you don't, we're all good. So they would never expect me to do anything. Right. That's also a myth, like if you're a drug dealer, cops can do drugs with you and you're still getting busted. Like, so you don't, I mean, like, I've never seen it. But that's one of those entrapment myths that is never going to fly. The big entrapment myth is, are you a cop? 'Cause you need to tell me. That's not a, that's absurd. That's absurd. And I'd be like, yeah, I'm a cop. And laugh and they'd be like, all right. Oh, this one's crazy, eh? Yeah, yeah. - Garnal has been you and a cop. - Because you have to tell me. And I've had guys that tell me, dude, if you're a cop or you're a snitch, I'm gonna fucking kill you as soon as I fucking can if it comes out. I'd be like, no problem. And then I love arresting them. Fuck you, you know? Yeah. And there's a lot of people I didn't want to. If I did buy some, from guys. And I'm like, this guy's a hook dude. He's making like 50 bucks running this dope over here. I don't want him. I don't want him. If I can't get to his boss, fucking squash the case. I don't want to. You want to ruin somebody's life if they're not really. People do things for certain reasons. Just like that guy that lawyer got debarred. He was fucking looking for something to do. Doesn't make it right. What he's doing. But he's doing what he has to do to survive. I want, I want the dealers. I didn't want, I don't want the hooks. And it was really easy for me to figure out real quick. And there's a lot of guys like, if you, if you're on a wire or if you do it, if you get a tip on a transportation vehicle, transportation vehicle, those people don't know anything. I think even 500 bucks and they told them, there's something in the trunk. Don't look at it. You're going to keep this phone with you and you're going to call me every hour on the hour. Right. And they would call and check in. Take that fucking vehicle loaded with 100 pounds of shit in it up. So if you found a hundred pounds of meth on a load vehicle, it's possible that they don't even know who they're working for. They have a lot of them. We were getting the M30s coming in across the border. And all these girls were putting them in these sewn bras that were sewn in. The M30 pills were sewn into the bras. And they would have like a thousand pills. They didn't know anybody. Right. Yeah. I mean, I don't get any satisfaction out of that. No. No. They're just trying to, especially at that level, man. They're just stupid. You're just stupid. Yeah. That's that's you're not a drug dealer. You're just stupid. I won't drug dealers. How would you get a lot of money coming back on wires back into Mexico? Tell us about that. We would get millions of dollars. Oh, please tell inform us. We would get vehicles load vehicles going back in. Get them get sagep to stop them right before maybe LA San Diego. And dude, there was one where they stopped and they walk right up to it. And the guys like, I don't have a license. And they're like, okay, they're like, do you want to get out of the car and leave? And he's like, I want to leave. They're like, go ahead and leave. And it was like, I think it was 1.7. And he calls and goes, they stopped me. And the guy's like, okay, what'd you do? I got out of the car and walked away. They're like, go back and say those, you got to need those bags that are in the trunk. He's like, I ain't fucking going back to say those bags are mine. They didn't even give a fuck about this guy. They just knew the money was in there. Yes. Wow. Yeah. Have you ever seen, like, really sophisticated ways that they smuggle money back? One of the ways they would do it, which was kind of weird to me, they would go down to the garment industry in LA and they buy tons of designer clothing by the pound and then bring it into Mexico. So they're lit that's, that's a big money laundering way. So you don't even bring the money back. You bring the clothing back and then you, they sell it down there. You bring 40 footer of clothing. Right. You dump a million dollars on designer clothes. Wow. And you bring it down there. Wow. So your wiretaps got you that information. Yeah. Wow. That's fucking crazy. And what can you do at that point? If you stop the car before it gets to the garment industry because everything's cash down there, I want to come to that. But it would be like last year stuff. You know, like, I knew it's all brand new, but it was like last year stuff. But we, we, we did a lot of cases when we get like a million bucks and shit like that. Wow. Yeah. What do you think the, what do you think the tenderloin brings? Like, I know it's an impossible question, but what do you think it turns over every week? The combined drug sales. Like a hundred thousand bucks. Over a hundred, over a hundred on an eight block radius. Yeah. And that's 10 pieces, right? That's like five pops, 10 pops. Yeah. So we're talking tens of thousands of transactions every week. Oh, yeah. I mean, the guy's making a thousand dollars a day and he's making maybe 20, 30 sales. Yeah. Times lots of drug dealers in the stuff's gone down. I mean, you go buy three grams of fentanyl for a hundred bucks. I'll spend a hundred bucks and buy a gram at first. And now we give it three for you probably even less than that now. Okay. So I want to talk about the sea eyes a little more. Okay. So how many sea eyes would you have running out at a time? When I was at narcotics, I had tons of them. I had tons of sea eyes. And they would, they wouldn't just do drug cases for me. I had some sea eyes that were like affiliate to gangs and would be able to tell who killed who immediately. So we can call homicide and say, this is going to be your suspect. Robbery series. This is the crew guys. They're working out of the northern district. And here's a couple of their names called robbery and let them know. So it wasn't just narcotics that we used them for. Did you guys bus murders that way? Oh, yeah. Oh, yes. We'd put them on it. We'd put them on a hot path immediately when they didn't have anything. Wow. Yeah. And these are guys that just didn't want to go back? No, they ended up being your friends in its sense. Right. I have sea eyes that still wish me happy holidays on the phone and shit. I mean, I still, they just like checking in with you. I'm good, dude. They know I'm out of the game. They're out of the game. Yeah. And they're like, just checking in, dude. Because we ended up bonding. For sure. They trusted me. They trusted me with their life because I could have put their name out there and something would have happened to them. I could have fronted them out. I would have sometimes people would ask me, can your CI do this? And I'd be like, I'm not going to let them because I'm not going to let them put themselves out like that. Or the feds would say, hey, you got a CI that can that can do this for us. And I'd be like, I could, but I'm not going to. Because the feds, that name comes out right away. When we did the hell's angel wire, there was a girl. I watched her going down the tube, dude. She was going down the drain. And her boyfriend and her were my informants. And she was moving dope for sergeant arms, meth pounds and pounds. And I let the feds have her. I was like, she's going to fucking end up dead. So she left. She met with him. She picked up two pounds. We had her traffic stopped by an narcotics guy in a marked unit in a uniform. And said, you're on probation on the search at car. And she says, I need to talk to Brit Elmore. They're like, who's that? They knew because he worked in the office with me. And she's like, he's an narcotics officer. I need to talk to him. So he went out on the radio. Hey, Brit can come out here. So I went out there and I'm like, what's wrong? She's like, I got two pounds in the car. I'm like, I know you do. And she's like, fuck, I'm going to jump. I jumped in her car. They followed me up. I took her narcotics. FBI was up there. That's one of the only times I worked with FBI. And they said, here's what we're going to do. We're going to have you continue to buy from him. Everything you get will pay for. And you're going to wear a wire. And when you're done, we're going to put you in another state under another name and get you a job and everything because you're not going to live out. You're not going to make it right now with what you're doing. Right. And this is trying to take down the the help bosses of the Hell's Angels. Correct. And this is the Hell's Angels San Francisco. Correct. So you took down the president and the sergeant of arms. Yes, but it was but it wasn't an organizational thing. No, I don't want people to think that it was it was there were a lot of guys in that group who most of them don't most of the Hell's Angels guys are just it's different. Yeah, yes, but they were selling Matt the the president was selling math. Yeah. Wow. Out of the out of the office. No, no, no, no, no, they were doing they didn't even let the members even know they were doing. Okay. Yeah. Now did you end up getting them to flip or do they go no, no, no, they went away and went did their time. Yeah. Um, so say you've got a CI, right? Drugs. It's federal. You know, and then he says, okay, I'm I'll work for you. How long do you keep him on the hook for before you say, okay, you're good. You're free to go. I'm different. A lot of guys are like, you got to give me three cases. I'm just like, hey, dude, let's just do one and see how it goes and I'm not. Yeah, I'm not. They they feel relaxed with me and cool with me. I know they're going to stick around. So back in the day, we were able to pull their file out of being charged. Can't do that now. Now you got to do a letter of cooperation and you got to get all the jump through all these hoops to do it. But before we would just go down to rebookings and pull their file and hold it. Okay. So you as an officer had the discretion. Correct. About how long you wanted to use a CI before they went pulled his file. I could have them do one for me. We were cool. You get caught on another one. It's on you. So, so we're like, the feds aren't even going to know about this yet. Until you work for me and I see how it goes on a state level when I had state state state, state informants. Okay. Not federal informants. Okay. Feds is a whole different thing. They do their thing. I just step back. I just let them do their thing. Okay. I didn't even want to run federal informants. I ran my state informants. I didn't want them to run federal informants because the feds a whole different ball game. I mean, your name comes out immediately as discovery. Right. So my my name comes out immediately for discovery as an officer. They call me and tell me, hey, we're dropping your name. I'm like, that's fine. Okay. So when some suspect or a defendant goes to federal trial, when they pull the discovery trial, he goes to his hearing. And that's when he's going to find out who's the rat. Correct. But he already knew. Well, no, he might not. I can't say he knew it was me. He'll know right then. I see. His defense, the defense attorney will say that guy Carlos was a cop. Right. And then they give my true name. But then they'll know the sea eyes too. They'll know who the sea is. So they have to disclose all that. That's why I told sea eyes, you don't know me that well when you introduce me. You just know me as some guy out there trying to buy fat and all, trying to buy meth, trying to buy guns. I got this guy looking for rifles and you want to distance yourself from me because you want to be like, "Fuckin' dude, I didn't know," but the informing game is different now. Before you can grab somebody and they would be like, "I ain't saying shit, I'll do my time." And as time has progressed, when people have progressed, everybody talks on everybody now. They do. Everybody talks on everyone. That's what everybody says. Dude, we grab a wire, we grab 20 people on a wire, 15 of them are proffering to talk about what they did and what other people on the wire did and then they just go, "Hey, he's gonna talk on you, he's gonna talk on you, they're like, "Fuckin' just plea him, let him plea." It's kind of smarter though. It is for us because I went to court very little. But it's smarter for the defendants because if everybody tells on each other then there's. If you're one of the guys that told your own, you're gonna fucking write it hard. You are. You're gonna fucking get the 10 years, you get 15 years. So as a legal strategy, if everybody tells on each other then everybody gets credit for snitching, but nobody gets an organizational. Correct. Yeah, let's just say you get five, six years, you do 85% of that. I like the fed system because when I arrest the guys on the fed system, the first one's not bad. Maybe in your case it was. The first one wasn't bad. A lot of these guys. Oh, you mean the first sentence? Yes, right. Your second and third, dude, they're gonna be stronger and stronger every time. So you think the feds on a first time drug charge actually give fair sentences, but it's the. If you continue to get caught, that's where they get them. It's aggressively higher. Right. I mean, I had a guy selling me automatic glocks with a switch on him, with 100 round drums. Dude, I could squeeze it and unload, dump 100 rounds in seconds. And I was buying those and rifles from him. And then his cousin turned me. He turned me on his cousin. I was buying meth from them. I was hanging out with these guys in their house. So we end up taking them down. He had a real bad record. He immediately says, "I'll take 10 right now." Because he was looking at 25. Right. He's like, "I'll take 10 right now. Don't want to go to court. Don't want to waste anybody's time." Dude, I saw a guy do that on the chain with me when I used to have to go back and forth to court. I didn't have any bail, but I was there just on a state case, but you'd be in there with guys, you know, facing serious federal time. And it was like literally the first, whatever they call it, when you first go before the derainment. Yeah, he goes. I did it. He's got the cops on. It's me. And they were like, "No, no, no, no. Just can't speak." Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he's like, "No, I did it. I did it. I did it. I did it." And he was like a professional criminal. And it was for over some guns. And he was like, "I want. " What are you wanting my guilt? Please show some leniency on me. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah. I bought a ton of guns, dude. I was buying guns from people where I'd buy like six to ten at a time, you know, pillowcase. And now, so it would bug me, because if you're selling to me and you think I'm a fucking monster, you're selling to other people, too. Right. Yeah. I was buying Draco's. I was buying fully auto AK-47s with 100 round drums. Wow. I was buying all kinds of shit. Where the fuck does a Draco even come from? Dude, I was buying multiple Draco's. If for people that don't know what a Draco is, we'll pop it up on the screen. They're beautiful. Yeah, they're amazing guns, but they're fully automatic machine guns. Huge banana clips. And just this pine grip and pine stalk. Right. Yeah. They're not pretty. They're just cool looking. They're cool as fuck, but they're completely illegal. Yeah. Like, there's no state where you can only-- No. And I would ask them on video. You shoot this? He's like, "Fuck yeah, I shot it." He's a felon. "Fuck yeah, I shot it." You have to put your arm. He's on the video. He's like, "You got to put your arm underneath it because the fucking winds up and starts going up." So I had to put my arm down because it's too small to hold. Fuck. So I want to get him admitting using it because he's a felon. Not that he used on anything, but that he fired it. So does that make a difference? Yeah. It further incises. Just and also further incises if you know that I'm a felon and you're selling to me. So those guys are going federal. If you're selling you a Draco and you have a criminal record? I was buying it. ATF's really good about spending money. ATF would spend a lot of money. To buy guns. Yes. I would go down. I would go buy six to ten at a time from several different crews and it was really easy for me to call Alex over at ATF and go, "I need like eight grand and she'd be like not a problem." Where are these crews, these gun crews, these dope crews, where are they in the bay? Because you're not buying Draco's from somebody in the tenderloin? Yeah. You are. Really? You are. But what they're doing, they're going outside. They're going to Arizona. Nevada. They're going to Vegas. They're going to the gun shows down in Arizona. They're going to all these places and they buy in these guns that like gun shows. Because those gun shows like in Arizona, these guys are taking pictures of it saying you want it. They were like two little shorties, ARs and I'd be like, "Yeah, I'll take them both." But they would buy them outside the back from that guy. That guy's selling to them out in the parking lot later. No paperwork on it. So but then how does it, if he's buying illegally, how does it become illegal? Do they retrofit? Absolutely. He's a felon. He can't have a gun. So when he tells that guy, "How much you sell it to me if we go buy it in the parking lot after one of this place closes?" And the guy's like, "I'll sell them to you for like a thousand of pieces." So that guy's committing a felon to you too? He is. He's trying to get straw purchasing. We have, I would buy like multiple glocks in the cases. And there were these, there was these gun dealers in Arizona, which was really good for ATF. As soon as we took this case down, they arrested a bunch of people down there. There are gun dealers and they'd buy like ten glocks, but they put a different name on each one of them. But they'd sell all ten of them to the felon that, and I had serial numbers on them. So they'd call me out and be like, "Hey, I got ten glocks. I'd be like, I'll take them all." Do you think that's how most of those kind of weapons make it out of the street? Yes. Right? And some people are making them like, you'll go into a place and you'll see that they order to lower, order to upper, they, or they, or they, they had the poly bottom on it, like the P-80s, the ones with no serial numbers on them and stuff. But like a fully automatic, you can't buy that at a gun show anywhere. So where, where do those come from? Like, are the most of those made? You're getting them out of state and some people are, are altering them. Right. But like the glocks, you buy that switch that goes on the back of those glocks, they buy them from China. You drop that on the back, it'll fucking unload the whole clip in a matter of seconds. I see. And with ATF, having that switch alone is considered an automatic weapon. Just the switch in a bag, not even attached to a gun. So that, that was a big thing. I was buying a ton of glocks with buttons on them. You get to keep any of them? No. Did you ever. I'm not even a gun guy, man. I swear to God. I'm not even in the guns. I'm not even. I, I just barely qualify when I'd be like, I'd have to qualify at work, I barely qualify. It's funny because I'd work in that warehouse and these guys would bring in these ARs and AK-47s and shit and I'd be like, oh yeah, I didn't even know how to like pull the thing back on it, dude. I'm just. You didn't watch a tutorial? No. I put like cotton gloves on because I didn't want my prints on them. Yeah. I tell them. In case somebody grabs them right now, they'll see that I have my prints on it. And they're like, oh yeah, no, you know, they're holding it with fucking talent shit. But I would ask them, is any blood on this, like, that's been used? Some of them would be like, yeah, that one does have blood on it. So that would be a case that they can investigate when they do a niban test on it to see where that shell casing came from. Okay. So these guys, when you were working in that warehouse that you guys set up and you have people selling you all these guns and drugs, you would let them go. They would sell it to you. You would get it on a. It took a year and a half till we took everybody down. Okay. So they would come in there and then after they sold you the guns, you would come in and you know, dust for prints. As soon as they rolled out that rollout door and as soon as the outside surveillance team was following him off, all the doors would open in the warehouse. Like behind like bookcases and all this stuff they'd come out, they'd take the guns, they'd swab it, they'd DNA swab it, they'd put it in a box, wrap it, DEA would come out and take the dope and weigh it and test it and put it in a bag and then we'd get the next customer. Okay. And then I'd tell the guy, like, hey, give me 15 minutes and then be like, okay, roll through the door. That's how busy it was. Yes. It was like a dope spot. Yeah. Literally. Okay. So did you, in the process of buying all those guns, were you able to like just stumble across like murders? There were cases of, there were cases that they were looking at and I don't know because I don't go that far with them, but there were cases that they said, yeah, it has a blood on it. Like it was used. So then you would let like the homicide division of whatever? No, ATF would do it and they would niden test the gun and they would get the slug and then they would, I would, they would go to like homicide and stuff and say, hey, did you get any shell cases on a homicide that matches this, this, this, this cartridge? People's got to know that like nobody sells guns and drugs in a warehouse. What is this the fucking 90s movie? Well, the, what they thought was I was sending it all out. If you pulled into the warehouse and had all this counterfeit clothing, shoes, perfumes, watches, it was all shit that was seized off the port by CHP. Okay. So they just loaded this place up and I'd be like, yeah, you want some pants, take some fucking pants. You want some shoes? Okay. counterfeit. I guess they do do that though. We close to get bipped and stuff and like I would tell them like if this has blood on it tell me because I'm going to ship this out to Mexico if it doesn't have blood on it I'm going to sell it either local or in another state and I became so close with these guys they'd be like that one has blood on it be careful with it and I'd be like okay so they would they would they would come forward to saying just just getting people to fucking tell on themselves man. Brent you son of a god but but I had some guy I had guys like I'd seem in federal court and they'd be like hey can I talk to you for a second and I'd be like yeah and I'd be like oh fuck and they'd be like hey man it's all good it's a game I got caught I slipped and I got caught and those are true criminals definitely true criminals who say I got caught I'd have other people yelling I mean he fuck you you fucking pig and I'd be like whatever dude but the ones that are like dude it's a game and I slipped yeah yeah um tell us about the weed you took down you went with I would do the eradication in DEA yeah that's also about this would you ever go to did you ever go northern cow of course you did of course whenever whenever it would dry out southern Oregon was the main spot because it's closer to Portland and they were growing up there of course but okay I didn't know they didn't have the quantities that normally triangle there that's right but we have southern Oregon you know Ashland all those little surrounding counties it's the same climate essentially is northern California right so we would go to those guys but those growers they would get a couple hundred pounds they were like small like communal sure now I didn't even consider them criminals and so when we sold out of that load though as it went deeper into summer and all the loads got sold out that were grown the season before then you got to go deeper in northern California you got to go meet with the Mexicans and the the bigger criminal groups so we'd be as far down as like arcada arcadia arcadia arcadia we would stay in arcada okay when we drive up and you drive we drive up in our vehicles in the radio station would say feds are coming up dude feds are coming up here's the fucking they got six SUVs don't know where they're going but here's what the plates are on them can you know the radio it is like a wild west culture up there it absolutely is and when you're in a small town like that in a six car caravan with fed vehicles you're gonna stand out yeah we would park at a hotel that would let us hide the cars okay but we would stay there for a week um I didn't think of them as criminals they're farmers they're farmers right but but a funny thing about it is it's kind of a misnomer we would go up to their place and a lot of times we would hit it like in august september and where where are these in greenhouses or these up in the forest both okay not in the not in the bllm land we'd do that sometimes but we'd go on to people's property okay search once a god i got it they weren't mad they were disappointed but they were like dude as long as you don't make this legal we're good and a lot of people don't understand that they're like dude I'm making good money selling this shit and I like you said I store it for when towards the end of the year before the next harvest so I make a lot off of my shit and they would have like dude they'd have $60 80 $100,000 in buckets and stuff on the property or hidden under their bed in a case canvas case but they but they they would be like just don't make it legal because when you make it legal we're all fucked and that's what happened so you go bust people and this is this is post legalization right post legalization okay got it and they did they were like hey dude this is a game we got caught but don't make this shit legal so how did they have warrants they were growing over the legal amount the plane would fly over and we're able to detect it okay so we go in and they'd be like hey there's a thousand plants approximately a thousand plants out there what was was that about what was worth it to you guys like like what was like the minimum amount of plants on a grow that you guys would say all right we'll make it we'll get the feds involved they would have to be pretty big they'd have to be pretty big and the thing about it was federal grant money so you had to spend it so they would send us up there and we'd go up there like four or five times for a week at a time huh so you'd haul out a thousand marijuana plants we cut a thousand marijuana plants and fucking put it through a woodchipper put it through a woodchipper would that hurt you a little bit that beautiful plant no I'm not a we do yeah I know but just the plant just they were beautiful yeah I got pictures of me standing I swore to God and it's like a 30 foot tree and I'm at the top of it on this ladder at least 20 feet at least 20 feet yeah and it it looks like freaking redwood dude and it's it's huge buds oh yeah so you just dripping right yeah right and these were white guys a lot of them were so these weren't cartel grows no no no we'd get those in the BLM land but we'd get a lot of Russians a lot of Armenians were buying property up there and growing yeah and uh Chinese at all on the BLM land on the BLM right yeah but we uh we would woodchip it and then uh so would you got would you take those guys in or would you just seize their load and then not just seize it yeah and then humble it would charge them so much per plant as a fine oh see they get their shit taken and then they would get charged with a county for X amount of plant I don't even know what it was a per plant right because you're only allowed to have like a couple hundred plants I don't even know I'm not sure right okay and they have to be rooted like if you went to a greenhouse or we go into a if they have a lot of indoor hydroponics the Asians do in San Francisco where they buy a house and they just turn that whole house into a hydroponic and uh but the plants have to be rooted so when you pull them out you can't charge it unless it's rooted I see but it got to where we would be like hey we got a thousand plants in the AOSA's office would be like hmm not that sexy would you bust those indoor Asian grows yeah the reason we would bust those mainly is because the neighbors were complaining and it was such a hazard such a fucking hazard um wires going everywhere the fucking house is gonna catch on fire man yeah they had one in the sunset where the guy was doing a making that honey oil hmm the KFC oil yeah in the fucking house blew up blew the mother-in-law was the mother-in-law or the wife died no fucking way kids got burnt oh do that is highly flammable when they do that yeah and those conditions are not good they got the house they put some like illegal Chinese migrant in there yes who's a nobody yeah he's just tending plants yeah yeah what about the mail you say you worked at the mail did you catch packages coming through the post office oh they love you know that was my bread and butt was that you're get down yeah yeah yeah you know what I didn't want the shit going out I wanted the money coming in on the next day okay go into this yeah so how would you get up how would you get up on it and then yeah I had a dog and I had a really good dope dog and we would get packages that fit a profile which is what's a profile oh so they just they just don't look like they're going to the right place you know I mean if the guy writes Mickey Mouse from Donald Duck right fuck you dude I mean there you go and I'd run the dog cross them the dog would alert and I'd say that package there that package there that package there and we would knock on their doors and the sender you would you would find the address to the sender receiver oh see because the money's coming in it's coming in first thing in the morning okay so the east coast I got you so how would you connect but how would you connect a package of weed probably that was leaving the bay going to the east coast how would you connect that to the money coming back connect it my dog alerted to it to it I see okay so you're oh you're sending the dog through the the inbound mail you you find these packages you lay them out the inbound I run the dog across dog alerts to he's trading in marijuana he alerts these packages we would go to people's house and take expecting a package sometimes they said yes sometimes they said no we open the package for us we believe there's contraband in it they would open it up and it would be like fucking 40 60 80 grand he like this is ours we'll give you a receipt for it as long as you can prove where it came from within 90 days you'll get it back wow but we would hit some huge ones huge hits like I could pull a million dollars out in four days out of postal million dollars yeah all that drug money coming back yeah all that weed money yes weed money all weed big money I mean you knew back in the day what east coast three four times what you pay for it yeah yeah and you can sell it you can send so many hundreds at a time and you know if it gets busted I got so much more but people didn't even hide it I mean you'd get a box squash they look inside and see vacuum packing clear vacuum pack would just stack some money in it yeah nobody even tried it didn't even conceal it because they were just send that money send that exactly exactly yeah I mean we would hit up to four hundred thousand in one package yeah wow yeah and then and we were hooked up with the partial companies the companies that get private companies we were cool with them they'd call up and say hey this guy gets his wooden box sends it out and he gets it back like in a week and he just stooped about it he just keeps calling it a to come, to come, to come. And then I'd open it up and it'd be like 200 grand in there. 'Cause he sent out the dope with that box. I cut my dog loose, he'd go up and he'd alert immediately. Get a search warrant for it, open it up, and there's like 200 Jesus in it. - And then he's not gonna claim it. You go confront him with it, he's not gonna claim it. So then what do you guys do with that? Seize money. - That sees money all goes to the feds, and then the feds would break it off to the locals who were involved in the case. So I was bringing a ton of money to my department. - A ton of money. - I mean, my dog was probably good, I'm not lying. He was probably good for three, four million a year. And that was gross, and then we'd get a percentage of it. - Yeah, it's a money-making scheme. - That weed money was huge. - That's why you guys didn't want to go and you didn't want to become illegal. I say you guys, I mean, both sides. My side didn't want it, and your side didn't want it. - Yeah, your side, they would tell us, man, like as soon as you make a legal, these corporations are gonna come in here and fucking cut us out. And that's not what happened, but in a sense, it did reduce the amount of racket definitely, in many ways, reduce the amount of racket. And I mean, look, the biggest, I learned this when I was in prison, and I read that the California Corrections Union was the biggest donor to the anti-legalization fund. Obviously, everybody is getting money out of this war on drugs. - Yeah. - People make money off a war. It's kind of the point of war, mostly. - We didn't really give two shits about it. It was a law, they broke it. We got there and seized the dope, but we'd seized the money, which was lots of money. And their trucks, every year they had $100,000 lifted truck, because they would buy it from the dealerships up there. And the dealerships aren't supposed to be, dealerships aren't supposed to accept cash. So like one of the salesmen would buy the truck and then just sell it to that guy. - Right. - And make it, and I mean, do they like $100,000, diesel lifted, just sick ass, three quarter ton trucks, every year they got a new one. But these guys, they grew their shit. Let's say they make a 100, 200 for the year, we do it again the next year. - Yeah. - Those are like farmers. - There's a way of life. - Yes. - Totally, totally. Wow, so you did that for, this is 25 years, you're doing this. - 25 years I did it, yes. Yes, yeah. - So many drugs. Your life, you know the game as well or better than a drug trafficker. - Yes, because I know the different avenues of the drugs, a lot of times a drug trafficker will be wrapped up in just one type of drug and they got it down. But we had like in San Francisco, we had guys moving kilos. They would have a girl, they'd get like a white girl to go order a pod and they dropped that pod, this place stuff either. They dropped the pod in a driveway of a house for rent. They throw some couches in it, tear the bottoms out of the couches, load it up with coke, put the things back down and say, hey, that pod's ready to pick up, it's going to New York. - Yeah. - And then I'll say they get delivered at a house that was for rent or for sale there and they'd fucking take the key, open it up, pull the shit out and leave the pod there with all the couches and shit inside it. And dude, they could put 100 kilos of coke in it. - Yeah. - Were there guys moving hundreds of keys like that? - Yeah. - Out of the bay. - Yeah, wow. - There's a lot of guys that moved a lot and made a lot of money, Bay Area guys. But when they got wrapped with the feds, one of their deals was like, I'll plea, let's just end this. Don't come onto my money. - He might sit alone, don't dig in to find out where my money's at, I'll plea right now. They'd go ride it for five, 10 years. When they got out, they were doing well 'cause they had all that money sitting there waiting for him. - And the feds would do that if you're like, if you don't fight me on this and just plea guilty, I'll. - Yes, in a way, it was like, hey, he's going to plea, he wants it all to end right now. And pretty much that's what he's saying. He's going to admit his guilt. Let's stop. And most of the time, the AUSA is going to say, all right, move him through 'cause I got to get to the next guy. - And unless you're IRS, you're not, I mean, there's some people that are savvy on finances, but most of the DEA guys and HSI guys and ATF people, they're not financial people. To go find money, to go find out where it's being put or taken or something, unless you're IRS. So a lot of, all they want to do is get guns and dope off the street and move on to the next one. - So you, but being like the first line of defense, you saw the different, you were like the first person to see the changing drug trends. - Oh, I've been through crack, then meth got really big. - The early 2000s. - The early 2000s. - The heroin was always stable. - It was constantly there. - It's an opioid. There's always a stable opioid. - Correct, all right. - And it still is, I mean, you can go in the, tend to go in and buy heroin or whatever you want. I'm gonna go buy some heroin, I think. I'm back in San Francisco. I want pure sma. I'm so sick of fentanyl. I'm sick of hearing about it. - But the meth was big for a while, dude. The meth was crazy. I was paying 14,000 a pound. I got into 14,000 a pound when it first came out. I was, when it first came out, dude. Like early 2000s, when meth was coming out, it was 99% pure. We flipped a couple of guys, one off that Hell's Angel wire, in North Kenya, and he was like, I'll turn you on to every one of my dealer, which was family members, and I was like, let's go. So I was buying multiple pounds from those guys. And I was paying, like, dude, I could pay between nine and 12, 14,000 for a pound of it because it was so rare. And now, 850 a pound, because they just flooded the market with it. But meth stayed in the race for a long time because a lot of people are functioning methodics. I mean, you could do meth and still deal with society unless you do too much and start getting paranoia. Yeah, and it's still pretty big. It's just maybe not in the cities as much. I can get it whenever I want it. I mean, Crystal, you ask for Crystal. They'll sell to you from grams to ounces. Yeah, meth's huge in Mexico. Because it's, you know, a lot of working class people. You know, they cut the coke up. It's good coke in Mexico. Don't ask me how I know. It's expensive. It's like American prices. I'm like, really that much. 70 dollars for a gram of coke in Mexico City. Now, I'm just because I'm talking to the cab drivers. I'm like, I'll get you whatever you need. Let's go. And I'm like, no, I don't need anything. But how much is this shit sell for? Most Mexicans in Tijuana, in Sonora, don't have 70 dollars to spend on the gram, but they can spend $10 on meth. And get a high for the whole day. Yes. And get a different kind of high. But you'd get that long fucking, like you drank 100 cups of coffee for a whole day. Oh, that sounds good. I love coffee. But-- So you saw go from meth. You saw go from crack to meth, heroin, and then-- Oh, there. And then, obviously, 2014, '15 is like the fentanyl. fentanyl sort of coming in. And I was like, dude, this is not like any other type of monster. Yeah. And once you get into those synthetics, like the whole MDA era, where they change at one molecule. So it wasn't illegal federally because they changed the chemical on it. And it's the same thing with the fentanyl, because now it's a blanket. But if you test fentanyl, test fentanyl, test isofetanyl, test carifetanyl, it's all these different-- because all it is is just different types of synthetics. Right. So they had to blanket it. I see. But when that came in, I was like, dude, this is no joke, man. These motherfuckers are zombies. Wow. It's fucking taking people out. Do they have that trank shit on the West Coast in the center of the line? They have some of it. They have some of it in there. Yeah. And now you see like powder cocaine coming back, being entrenched, right? Yeah. And you also see a lot of people at bars with the little $20 bags and stuff now, getting back into that, like guys and bars and girls and bars, little sniffing bags, little ziplock with a-- you don't see the snow seals anymore, but you'll see a little ziplock with a little 20, little piquet day, they call it. Yeah. Fuck, dude. It's just constant. How do you feel? It exhausted after a time. Like I'm not even leaving a dent, or did you just look at it as like I'm having fun? I'm having fun, dude. Yeah. I was having fun. Meeting new people, doing new cases, move on to the next one. I never took a personal. If I took a personal, there's a lot of people that take a personal and they're jaded as fuck when they leave. Right. Even in just like patrol and stuff. Like guys who came in like, I'm gonna make a difference. Yeah. I wasn't like that. I was like, they're gonna let me be a cop. Fuck yeah. I'll be a cop. I was, I was a blue collar working guy and I knew that's what I'm gonna be. My buddy was a fireman, Ed. He turned around and said, hey man, you gotta get a fucking job like a fireman or a cop. I was like, yeah, sure. So I got a GD, put it in and San Mateo, Sheriff's Office picked me up as a correction officer. And I went there and I was like, oh my God, dude. This is fucking great. It is. It's fucking entertaining. I get to be around the funniest people, the weirdest people. And I got along with all those inmates because they were fucking people like I knew. I clicked with them and they didn't give me any slack and I didn't give many. You respect me. I respect you. The people that had problems are the ones that didn't respect the inmates and they thought of them as pieces of shit and that's not how I think. Did you ever get approached by family or people who knew that you were a cop and say, hey man, like if you could just feed me information, I'm not saying anything, but you know. Regarding. I'll give you an envelope every month just You let me know if you know I got it if they're setting up on me for a case or anything like that. No, never I never did Yeah, and the thing is is like with the feds like I Was buying guns from a couple of people that were Family members of cops and I didn't know till after and I couldn't stop it You know, I'm not that I would I'm just saying I couldn't there was with the feds dude. They're strict as fuck Yeah, straight they go to polygraph every year. They can be they can be acknowledged to polygraph. They get they get They get dope tested all the time right they stay on them. Yeah, you know they stay on them and that's what protects them from That's what protects them from doing anything dirty the feds you'll you'll get like a broken arrow But most of the time it's like do they get polygraphed at any time and they get tested all the time. Yeah, so no We got to flip some local pigs Will the west coast you're gonna have trouble doing the west coast because we make so much fucking money right Well, I mean you guys think it's a lot of money, but to a a kingpin You know, I do and I can change your life. No, no, no absolutely, but there's Dude, you could be a patrol officer making four five hundred thousand a year fuck off really sort of got Sort of got it with the overtime Sort of got with the overtime. That's why a cup of coffee in California costs 11 bucks because I got to pay yes a fucking A patrol officer who's getting his dick sucked by a hooker on the job Dude half a million dollars a year fuck off Make it almost a hundred an hour and That's why you don't get a lot of broken arrows You get those guys in the east coast Midwest south The south New Orleans you get places to kill corrupt, Texas is you should hear the story. I'm embarrassed when someone tells me what I make I Went to 9/11 they sent a hundred of us to 9/11 to help for like a week We brought a bunch of money over from the POA to them and we went over there and it was kind of a moral support thing Because those guys were so fucking beat up those cops and firemen so they sent a hundred us on a they put on us United plane and they flew us over for a week. So those fucking New York cops are making like 36,000 a year in their asking I'm not going to tell you what I'm making I'm like, yeah, I kind of made the same. I was making 136 and this is in 2001. Yes, that's fucking great guys are like Yeah, I made I had my best year this year. I made 36,000. I was like, oh, that's good They're like, what'd you make? I was like about the same See you hear that. I never want to hear this bullshit about Yeah, Liberals are trying to defund the police the police have so much fucking funding dude in Los Angeles like where like communist Los Angeles a big city's do the big city's dude the small cities don't but that's where we're gonna Flip the cops dude the big things like we're gonna flip the cops San Francisco, too They get federally funded the LA gets federally funded Austin, New York You got your major cities and San Francisco's not even a big city. It's seven miles by seven miles Yeah, but it's considered a big city. Yeah Yeah, we live in a police state guys, so don't think whatever cop comes in here and it's like I Was at war know you fucking weren't shut up. I'm saying that inside Dude if you ask my wife she'd be like no dude you fucking played all day Exactly you had a great gig you have the you have all of the laws of society that make it impossible for the criminal You have your backed up by courts of law. You're you bet the feds are backed up by in my opinion completely draconian Drug laws the only place that you're it's unfair as you're right when you're trying to get illegal Immigrants that are selling fent in the city of San Francisco. That's where it is. That is where it's kind of against you a little bit I agree the feds need the locals because a fed can't arrest on robbery Car theft they can't arrest on any of that they have to arrest on federal charges. There's no federal charges for that Right, so what they need it they needed us to work as As task force officers because I can grab that guy on a state charge and charge him and then we can start working our way up But they can't do anything if somebody if they caught somebody robbing somebody They have to do a citizen's arrest Because they could only live off those federal laws right and I was able to I had dual I had federal in state right so I can do them both. I I'd rather see local governments take more control and and if you be tougher on On crime that actually affects the citizens a guy bringing in a hundred kilos of coke does not affect the average person's day-to-day life at all it really doesn't most of that coax being sniffed by people that are lawyers and Functional people like let's not lie to let's let's be adults you people blowing up drug boats in the government You were all sniffing coke and DC before you got on hang on ran almost over Me stepping yes me getting my car bipped in San Francisco that fucks people up, dude That's that's people need to be proud to call that a property crime That's not a property crime because when I got to pay for a fucking window and I got a fucking clean out my car And I just lost all this shit in here. How you calling it a property crime when I'm a tourist and I come in and lose everything And I spent $10,000 to fly across from the East Coast and I lost everything. How could you call that a problem? Right and just the way of life like if I'm a citizen and it's already expensive and maybe I got to get to work And now I can't or I mean you're you're harming the person in so many ways, you know what I mean? So Yeah, we just got to get these feds. We got it. We got it. I told you before the podcast I want when I become governor of California. I'm going to Basically a point me. Yeah. Oh, you're gonna be like buddy. You're gonna be up there You're gonna keep me fucking safe from all these fucking Israelis are gonna try to whack me, okay? I'm gonna use I asked James Fishback who's running for I interviewed him in Florida He's running for a Republican governor there like as we speak as we're recording this. I asked him straight up Would you as governor Use the National Guard to defend yourselves against the federal government and he goes absolutely So I think you got his vote. Yeah, I think the tyranny that's coming The states are going to basically have to turn the guns on the feds and say no you will not Turn my country my state into China. You know you will not our lifetime Well, when I'm governor. Yeah, I'm on our life time. Do you think it's gonna get that bad? I don't know probably really probably or we all give up What they don't want to do that what they want is to have us all high all the time it starts from the prescription drugs that they They give us all the way down to we're not arresting for fat and all we want you on screens all the time Looking at entertainment all the time go read Aldous Huxley's Brave New World It was written in like the 1950s, right? It's it's you live in a dictatorship a digital prison where you're observed all the time every Movement you make is tracked all of your money Because by the way, we've printed all we've devalued your currency so much that now nobody can afford anything much like California Yeah, so now we're it's okay because we're gonna give you digital tokens Like we did overcoat that we could take away exactly at any time But don't worry because you're gonna be high and you're gonna be entertained and that to me. I would rather I'd rather blow my brains out. No, it makes me think. I mean Kids own houses. It's like you can get those taken away eventually Because they tax it so much right that we can't afford it anymore So they would rather have that option, but if they have to like with a draft You know what I mean like some people say like with this war in Iran. They're they are gonna go in with troops and the morale so low Nobody wants to fight everybody knows that this is a war for For the elites and for probably you know the foreign intervention nobody believes in this war so they're gonna have to Literally go conscript people young men that is where I I They don't want to do that But if it gets that bad I think I think they may and that's why you have all these data centers popping up It's because we need to be able to store all of your information and if you've been a bad boy like we worked I worked in the war demos when they had them who what does that mean war demos. They demonstrate in San Francisco for everything Oh, yeah, and dude those war demos People were for it against it. We were out there in uniforms with helmets and sticks and All the time. Yeah, it was just protest after protest after protest. Well, I'll say I know liberal Protesters from San Francisco are annoying. I understand that but at least they're At least they're aware You know, it's easy to shit on San Francisco. It's easy to shit on California, but we are We are the I don't know man It's the culture starts in California and and progress starts in California It doesn't end to take the guns away from the felons. You shouldn't have them right and be more stricter on it before When I first started they trip feds would trigger like anybody with the felon and possession of fire Not now dude you you get caught with the fire on you and you're a big-time felon big-time felon with a big record Judge releasing is for your court date. Just come to court, just come to court. It's like before it wasn't like that, you got shipped away right away. - But I think there's no fear of being a felon in a possession of a firearm. - But don't you worry that that steps on people's second amendment rights? - I don't think it does when you're a felon with a violent crime. I don't think that you should. For trigger lock, you had to have drugs or a violent crime. So I don't think that does when it comes to that. Because if you're carrying that gun and you have violent past in your drug dealer, you're gonna use that. You're gonna eventually use that gun that I stopped you with in a sitting in your waistband and the judge is like, oh, he didn't use it. So he didn't use it, but there's a propensity for him to use it as huge. In drugs, I think fentanyl should be in a whole different, I think anything synthetic should be in a whole different category. I think, dude, that shit's like anttrax. I mean, it's, dude, it's terrible. It's, there's no, not, I mean, like you said, people are in bars sniffing a little coke doing this and that. To me, it's not right, but it's not, it's not like some fucking zombie that's walking around shit all over him, eating out of a garbage can because he doesn't even know his own name or her own name. I don't think that's cool. No, it's definitely not cool. And like I said, like, this is not a solutions based podcast. No, no, no. But I'm cool with like, I'm cool with a governor that would be like, yeah, we're going hard on street crime, property crime, because that's where the society starts to come apart when you see that your neighbor with the broken window and the graffiti, right? But you also got to come after the oligarchs because they're the ones on a large high level that are the cause of it. They're the cause of the cultural rot, they're the cause of the cultural despair. It's not my fellow American, like we have to love our fellow American that's suffering. It's like the disparities. They opened up the dispensaries and all the shit areas, well, not shit areas, all the low class areas. And then they tried to put one up in civic heights and they're like, they're the ones that were like, that's fine. Go ahead, they're like, not in my fucking backyard, dude. You ain't doing that. You're not doing that at all. That's the problem with a society that's too stratified is because rich people don't have to feel the consequences of what they vote for, you know what I mean? So trust me, your enemy is Elon Musk. Your enemy is Peter Teal. Your enemy is, are the people donating money and buying our politicians. Your enemy is not the drug dealer, not that he should be allowed to. - I hate to say this, but I work for one as a secular protection for one. - For who, for a drug dealer? - No, for a rich person. - I'm not squirrel. - Okay, so yeah, those guys at the enemy, not being rich is awesome. I'm not shitting on all rich. - It's so nice to me. That family's so nice to me, dude. - Oh yeah, no, they're lovely people, dude. I'm sure one on one, they're, you know, who else was nice to you? Was, you know, cartel members. - That is true. - Sometimes they cared more about me than the cops. (laughs) I never felt good about arresting people. - Really? - Only vicious devil people I did. I was like, yes, but dude, a lot of the people I arrested, everyone's like, yes, dude, I was on the fence. - Would you ever, would you ever like pat somebody on the back after cuffing them and just be like, that'll be okay, buddy. - That's what the cops did to me 'cause they could tell I was not, - Thank you behind a few years. I'm like, don't, don't say that. Tell me, don't, tell me my life's over, man. - They would ask me if I wanted to see them and I would be like, no, I don't wanna see them. - 'Cause you kind of, 'cause you build a relationship with them. - They would call me and go, let's go to dinner tonight. Or they'd be like, hey, we're at the bar tonight. What are you doing this weekend? Dude, you wanna go with us to Tahoe? - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - I always had to make excuse. Or they'd reach out and go, hey, I've talked to you in a couple days, you good? And I'd be like, I'm good. Dude, no cops are fucking asking me if I'm good. (laughing) But I'll tell you, when I was, when I got into the correctional officer, I was like, wow, this is fucking different. And then I got picked up by San Francisco PD. And once I got there, I never wanted to be undercover. I didn't think I would be. I was just lucky to be getting paid by the city. So I go through there. And the whole time I was like, dude, this is like, I hate to call it like it, but it's a gang of your own. These people will take a bullet for you, these cops. You create your own little, your group. I mean, dude, when there was an emergency, every fucking black and white came, every officer came, 'cause you're fucking with one of our people. - Did you get any shootouts? Did you ever have to discharge your weapon? - Oh yeah, I've been in some shootouts where my partners were shooting people. I never did. I don't know how my really shot. I had two pit bulls come at me and I shot. Boom, boom. And they screamed and ran away and I missed them. They fucking came back with their tail between their legs. - Good dark. - Good dark. - Fuck. - Yeah. - I don't blame you, bro. I would have fucking shot those moths, too. - Oh, dude, they were coming at me hard. - But it was, I felt a sense of team with SFPD against other groups that, other gangs. - Other gangs of. - Other gangs. I would be working in the projects and they would know, like, dude, he'll bring that whole fucking team down here and flip this place over, you know? And I felt good about it that you'd not necessarily do it because of me, you're doing it for who I work for. It's like if there were shootings in the projects, we would just go in there and saturate the place. All the cars that were sitting out there were scofflawed and towed away, anybody that had a warrant went to jail, it was like, we're gonna put the pressure on you now because you fucked up and you're making this hard for all these people that have to live here. - Yeah. - So that doesn't happen now. But it did before, it was like everybody from traffic, to narcotics, to gangs. We're spending the next week inside that project 'cause two people got shot. - Right. - Yeah. - So I felt like I had an impact. - Yeah, it was camaraderie. - Do you think you were one of the most active undercovers? Like do you think you did the most buys in your career out of anybody in that precinct or any cop that you knew? - No, there were a couple guys that did like, Scrappy, Kevin Haley, Bobby Sanchez. Those guys on the street in the tenderloin, they could fucking buy. They could buy like crazy. - Like how many buys do you think you did? - Thousands. - They did more than me. - Wow. - And but when it got to go on upper level, when it got into the ounces and the pounds and all that, by far I was, I was the one who did all that. They were happy doing the tenderloin stuff and they just wanted to stay in tenderloin, do buys. They had their, they fit the part. They looked, when they dressed up, they looked rough and they can buy dope. - So you're kind of living this as an undercover for decades, you're kind of living this constant lie. Did your wife ever get suspicious? Like did your wife was like, you could lie so good to these criminals. - You lied to me. - That's a thing, I don't think you're marriage. I don't think I was lying 'cause I was just acting like Britt when I was young. - Right. - It's seriously, there's a difference. I didn't put it on an acting. Everything I said and did or where I worked or what I did was something I was accustomed to. If I said I was an elevator mechanic, my cousins, my brother, all them are elevator accounts. I know about it. If I said I was working doing construction, concrete, I did construction, I did concrete. So it was, all I did was take bits and pieces of growing up and convinced 'em that way. And then I wasn't scared. That's the thing I wasn't scared. You'll send some new buyers out even in the tenderloin and they're just shaking while they're walking up. I have a big martial arts background and stuff. So I'm not scared of you if you come at me and I didn't care if you swung on me or something, it doesn't bother me, I wouldn't care. And also, I probably had like tombstone courage. I'd be sitting in a car with a guy and he had a gun on him and we're buying dope and we're arguing over the price. I would be like, fucking this dude could probably shoot me or stab me at any time. Nobody's gonna get to me in time. They're far away. Yeah, they're far away. It's over by the time they do. And I got a really big high out of that. Dude, when I was done, it was like, I was like, that was good. Yeah, it really was. It was a dicting, right? It was a dicting, man. The fear factor of like we're arguing over a price. Some shit's gonna come down. And then I'll send it, works it self out and I'm driving away going, yeah, that fucking felt good. Not, yeah, I got the buy. It was like, yeah, I got good. Buying guns from guys and they got a gun on them and I can see it and they know I got 10 grand in my pocket and they're like, they could pull that motherfucker out right now. If I can break yourself, motherfucker getting that 10 grand. And if somebody pulls a gun out on you, you better go for their gun. Because there's no way you're gonna be able to reach in and pull a gun out from wherever you're holding it at and try to defend yourself. Did they teach you that? Or is that just something that you put together? It's something you put together. I never carried a gun on my waist. If I have the drop on you, there's no way. There's no way. You got to reach for it, yeah. If I'm sitting in a car with you and you pull it out, I got to climb on top of you and just try to push that in a direction that I'm not going to get hit. and just then just wait for them to come. - Mm-hmm. Well thank God that never happened. - But that was a big high. - For sure. - It was huge high. It was so much that people would call and HSI and go, "Hey, we just ripped a guy." And he says he can introduce you to buy multiple rifles. Today, let's go. I didn't care who he was. I didn't care who the guy was. I didn't need to see what his profile was. Somebody, DEA, we got a guy right now that we flipped, but we're gonna book him. So we have to get you to go buy right now before he goes to jail. I'm like, "Hook it up, I'll go do it." And it was a big high for me just to show up and meet somebody I never knew. And we're now doing a deal. - That sounds so fun to be honest. - It was, dude, most cops don't have such a good, privileged career. - Absolutely. If I died tomorrow, man, I did it all. I swear to God, I never thought I'd be a cop 'cause I just did, and I was working, and I didn't even know what cops did. When you're doing construction and I'd see some guys call, I don't know how he became a cop, I don't know what he did. And then when I got in, I was like, "Shit." And then I was working angle-side. I only worked in a uniform for like six months. And then they put me on a plane clothes team out of station. And I was working plane clothes and I was like, "Oh, this is fucking fun." And then the narcotics guys would come around and I would gravitate towards them. I'd be like, "Hey, can I help you?" "Let me do something." So this guy Paul, my boy Paul is out of here. He was like, "Let him ram the door." You know, a search warrant. I'd be like, "Oh, fuck, I hit the rim of the door." So then I do it, and then he was like, "Hey, you want to come down?" I think he had the cap in to bring you down here. So they said, "Okay, we'll bring you down for six weeks." And all you're gonna do is buy dope in the tenderloin. And I never bought before, but they said, "That's all you're gonna do. If you want to come down, you can come down." And I was like, "Fuck yeah, I'll come down." And I never left. I stayed my whole career there. So I stayed from 99 till 2024. So what are you doing now, man? To executive protection for a family. Really nice family. I work, hard time as a sworn officer for an investigative bureau in the city, not for the cops, for a different division. Do you have social media? I want to plug something, but-- Trying to do a, me, I'm hooked up with this guy, Matt Murphy, he's a retired DE agent from the East Coast. We have an outline of a book that we did. So I'm just trying to get a publisher to step on with us and get the same rolling. Do you have social media people can follow? LinkedIn, okay. And if they see you reach out, get a hold of you for some work. You got some money you wanna spend on you. You're gonna be, I want you is executive protection, person, my personal bodyguard for when I am governor. Not in Columbia. No, no, no, we're gonna be in California. Not when you go to Columbia. So those days are gone, thank God. But yeah, man, well, what an amazing journey. And yeah, dude, just cool fucking cop, man. Cool cop. I would have been, what have been a privilege to have been arrested for me? Oh, we would have laughed. I never took anything serious. Yeah. Would you ever have to tell like rookies or like young, you know, Sean Penn from colors that, yo, come, gear it down. I teach classes in that. So I teach classes like dirty shoes, dirty hands. First thing a drug dealer's gonna do is look at your nails and shit. So you wanna like go up to the rim of the tire and get it all dirty and rub all that shit inside your nails so because you're not gonna be all clean. So dirty shoes, dirty hands. I tell them to look them direct in the eye. Would you have to lose weight? No. Because most of my shit was I buying dope to sell. All right, 'cause you came up as a drug dealer, right? Yes, and those other guys that I told you, they, they, they're like skinny. They, they look, they, they fit the dope theme part when they put on the clothes and stuff. Right. Yeah. The Honduran's still there. Oh, yeah. It's just losing two a day. These people are overdosing off of something. Yeah. Yeah. It's just just an attendant line. Oh, fucking a, well. Brett, thank you so much, man. No, I appreciate it. It's really, really fun. I had a fun time. Fuck yeah, dude. Let's, we'll come out and film in San Francisco sometime. I'll come down there. Yeah. Walk the street with you, dude. You still live in the bay? Yes, I do. I live in the peninsula. Oh, nice. Good living up there. Good salary. Yeah. We learned a lot, dude. You talk people out of cell drugs. Talk people out of the laundered money. And you can become a cop and live pretty good. Out there, California, man. All right, you guys. It's been Brett Elmore. And we will see you next time. Thanks for watching. Take care. 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