How RHONY's Carole Radziwill Discovered She Had $700k Hidden in Investments

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Anthony, my very fiscally responsible husband, was John Kennedy's first cousin and they were very, very close and so I was very close to him and also his wife, Carolyn. I wrote what remains about my life. I'm growing up broke and humble and about the death of my husband and them. They died the same month, so in 1999, my husband put in $50,000. He just sat in that account, compounded, 30 years, $680,000. It was something crazy, it was some crazy amount. Yeah, I did inherit Jackie's Cartier watch. I ended up selling it auction because it was cursed. Well, the curse was like three women were in possession of the watch and all three were widowed in their 30s. This is Financial T. Welcome back to Financial T. This is a podcast where I teach you how to build wealth with a side of market drama, money, scandals and of course, financial pop culture, which is why today we have none other. Then my bestie, the famed Real Housewives of New York City, one of my favorite writers, woman about town, queen of everywhere, Carol Radswell. Welcome to the studio, took long enough, girl. You would think, I have a direct line to you. Yes, you do. But it didn't work. It has to do with you in here. Well, you know, I don't, I don't, I don't think about money that much. You care about it too much and I'm not terribly good with it. So I don't think I have anything trust and believe. I have nothing to enlighten your, your viewers about about money. Well, we don't want to learn from you person. I would learn from you. You never teach me shit about that. I teach you what other people don't. No, you don't. The VO, I was the one that found out about the voodoo and then I told you the voodoo story and then you're like, oh, yeah, you shouldn't invest in this. Whatever it's called, stock market index fund. Tell them what happened with the voodoo. Okay, I will tell because I'm a certain age and I've worked, you know, my whole life, you know, you pay into social security and all these things that you completely forget about. By the time you're like ready to take it, I'm not ready to take my social security yet. So I haven't been thinking about it, but it turns out after my husband, Anthony, passed away 1999 and he also was paying into social security for all those years he worked. And as the executor of the will and trustee and I guess widow, I was, I get his social security when he would turn 60 or something, but I didn't know about it. It's like, who knows about it? So I'm just like living my life and then someone like offhandedly said, oh, well, you know, what about your late husband's social security? I'm like, what do you mean? What about it? And go, you're entitled to it. I was like, what? I am T-T-T called, you know, went into the website. I'm like, what is this that put it in his social security? Boom, comes up. So I'm in it because of my husband. And they start sending me these letters that like, you might be owed money from this. You might be owed money from this based on my husband's social security number. They're like, finally, we have a point person for this account. We got to walk to share. And they're kind of like form letters. So I'm like ignoring them. And it turns out that I didn't know this. But Anthony was a member of the Producers Guild of America. I'm like, oh, okay, what is that? And so I call them, they're like, oh, yeah, you know, we were looking for you. We sent you a letter back in 2009. They said, well, since it's been so long and I never took any of the monthly stipend or whatever, it was like $8,000. But then there was an additional death benefit. It came to like multi thousands of dollars, like maybe five zeros. You know, wow, okay, over 10. Yeah, I think it was over 10. They said that you can take this in a lump sum or you can take it in monthly installments of like whatever that would be. Yeah. But they suggested I take it in a lump sum because it was so much money at that point. Usually people like just they get it right away. So I said, okay, I'll take the lump sum. And they sent me the check. I was like, just like winning the lottery. And then I still get $38 a month from like direct deposit into my little checking account from the Producers Guild of America. So that was one thing. So then they were sending me this like I worked for Disney ABC News, right? For 15 years my husband worked there for like eight. They did one place romance FYI. Yes, yes. That's when you were allowed to date at your workplace. I know people there weren't all these narks around. You could be sexy in the workplace and flirt with your boss. I mean, honestly, we were in the office all the time. I don't really do any job. That's where you that's where everyone met their partner. I know kind of a review you were giving. The only thing is like they did even back then. They they looked down on like, you know, superiors dating, you know, interns, whatever. Yeah, that's the but it happened. But it wasn't it wasn't it wasn't like. Did you come on to him or he came on to you? Because it is sort of weird if it's like your superior and they're being like pervy towards you. Well, he I think I were at the same level. Oh, okay. Well, I think he might have been an associate producer. I was a production assistant. Yeah. And then we met and no, neither of us. We just met on the Menendez Brothers story. Yeah, of course. In LA and and went to dinner a couple of times and then left and went back to New York. Actually, I went to Louisiana for like three months to do a documentary on abortion. And did we didn't see each other that much? And then we kind of when we got back, we saw each other like in the cafeteria or like places around the the building. Yeah. And it was like a slow and steady burn. And then we hit it for like a year because we were like so like, you know, we both work. Yeah, he's sort of sexy to hide it though. Yeah, when we thought we were hiding it, I think the probably the boss is kind of new, but you know, yeah. But anyway, so he worked, he worked there, I worked there. And and that's his one. Disney was giving pensions. I don't know if companies give pensions now. Yeah, it's not as much. Yeah, well, Disney. I know in his out companies as long. So it's like, you know, yeah, okay. A lot of those benefits come from being loyal. Oh, yeah, okay. So I was very loyal to Disney obviously. I was like 14 plus years. And so I knew I got some sort of pension. Not very much, but you know, this also kind of lottery money for and and then Anthony got a pension and there was something from the Social Security Department that said he had like some kind of. Would I interpret it to be a 401k? So what I interpreted it to be what is my car? I don't know what it was. I didn't know exactly what it was. They said for retirement. I don't know they said retirement was a 401k love. Well, it turned out to be something slightly different. There was money that was invested in compounding. No, but he had a 401k and then Disney had this other retirement account option that you could pay into. Of course, I didn't pay into shit. I was like, I need my money. You like spend my money? Well, I don't like retirement. I'm like 27 years old. 30 years old. I'm like, I'm not thinking about like what I'm 16. So and my husband was a little bit more financially. And now you're so happy that he did it. So you can tell all of us to do that. It's like it's fun when you're older. Right. So he invested secretly. Secretly, I guess it might be told me, but I forgot. And he turned out. Thank you social security department. That in it took me about six or eight months, even up to a year to like get around to like calling them. And I was like, finally, look. Is there a 500,000 account? Is there a 401k? They're like, well, you rolled over his 401k back in 2000. I was like, okay, that's what they're like, but what about his retirement account? I was like, what retirement account? They're like, well, you're the benefit listed as the beneficiary. I said, isn't that the 401k? They're like, no, that's a separate account. So I'm like, well, what is that? And my husband being much more financially astute and conservative than me put in about, it was, it was like, a lot of $50,000. And maybe it was some Disney stuff, but a bulk of it was in this, what, this index fund, which I didn't know anything about. And because I didn't know the account existed, you didn't touch it. And I didn't know how to access it. And nobody, nobody along the way when I was doing the estate and probate found it either, that it just sat in that account compounded 30 years. And that is how I learned about compounding interests. Yes. Because how much was it by the time you took it out? It was in the high six figures. Yeah. It, no, it wasn't. It was like 700 something. It was combined with Disney stock, which of course I sold right away because I could, but the fund, because it was a retirement account, it was a little complicated, but, but, but I was the beneficiary. So I could roll it into another retirement account or 401k. And I did, I was like, I, the guy when he was telling me, he, I thought he said like $6,470, I was like, just send me a check. He's like, ma'am, I can't send you a check for this amount. I'm like $6,600, $660,000. Yeah. It was something crazy. It was something crazy amount. Wow. And yeah. So because you also had that, but my husband knows if I had known about the account and would have taken it out, I would have taken, probably taken it out like if it doubled, because I'd be like, it doubled. No, that's okay. Like obvious, that's crazy. I should take it and like spend it on something great on my house. I mean, it was literally like, I mean, remember when I tell, I was like, it was so, I was peeing my can, the lottery. It was a lottery, but I mean, it may be that should be a new retirement account where people, yeah, I want to hear about that. Well, because, you know, he, it's just like, he took care of me. Yeah. It felt almost like an angel or something, because it was a moment to where you needed a little something. And he knew me so well. He's like, I'm not going to tell her about this because she didn't know about compound interest. And he obviously did. He took care of you. And he just took care of me. You know, it was just so, it was so touching. Yeah. So touching. And I, you know, you just feel like it was so unusual the way it all happened. Yeah. And the timing and the timing and everything. And so that's why like you were saying, you know, I mean, my life before going back to Roni, it was like, it was pretty perfect. I mean, I was just doing the things I love to do, traveling, writing, I have a dining club that we do on Sundays. We had our chat. We had our private dining. Yeah. Where we make our friend Max cook us dinner. And I don't know. It was like, it was never in my, in my thought process. How did you end up going back? You know, and I will say Andy eventually asked, asked if I would consider it. But, but even before that, I'm talking about manifesting in my, in my late husband and that story. But I feel like because it was not on my, you know, it was not on my radar at all. I had to promote a documentary I worked on about George magazine and John Kennedy, right? I was, you know, I, I think it was an important story to tell. I wanted to get out there. But as George was such a big part of his identity when he, when he passed away for contacts. I mean, obviously, I feel like most people know this. But if you're new to Carol, explain your connection to Anthony, my very fiscally responsible husband, John Kennedy's first cousin. And they were very, very close. And so I was very close to him. And also his wife, Carolyn. And then, you know, I wrote what remains about my life. I'm growing up broke. And working at ABC and all that stuff. And about the, the death of my husband and them. They died the same month. So in 1999. So there's been many, many years. And there are sometimes where I want to, you know, I, I think I want to talk about legacy over privacy. You know, and that was one of the times I thought, you know, this was John's, you know, child, you know, he, he, he, he really, he loved this idea. It was a great idea for a magazine. And, so anyway, so I wanted to promote this documentary that I had worked on. And so I went, I want your heavens live. And, you know, and not, I remember when you went on that girl and it popped off. Yeah. I was so nervous. I'm like, no one's going to remember me. Like, who cares? I haven't been in this world for eight years. And he was like, don't worry. Don't worry. It's going to be great. Cause he's like the ultimate optimist. Yeah. And I'm not like that. And sure enough, it sort of exploded. And I feel like they manifested this more than anything else. Because I think there was so much good will in the fandom for the years that I had spent on errone and, and the subsequent years where I wasn't that much in touch, but, but there was a lot of nostalgia. Um, there was, there was just a lot of goodwill. And I think I would say, you know, going to Bravo Con and seeing that and feeling that and not only me, but the Bravo executives or whoever follows this saw it too and felt it. Like there was a constant drum beat, you know, we want you back. Why are you coming back? Come back. Come back. Come back. Come back. And I would, I remember being at Bravo Con and I did a 50 press interviews and they all said, well, are you coming back? And, and I was like, said, no, I said, absolutely not. I think like if the new girls, you know, a chance and it's only been two seasons. I'm not in that world anymore. But it's great. And I'd love to be here with all the fans. And if it's sometimes like when there's a new cast, the old housewives can disparage them, but you didn't do that. You didn't shoot yourself in the. No, no, no, no, because I remember coming on in the season five and and and Bravo kind of, you know, switched the cast up. There were three new new people, me, Heather and Aviva and and then three or four of the the older cast. And the audience did not like us. And it took two seasons and then and it just sort of started all switched. Yeah. Some evil thing happened here. Three people die in a quiet suburb in Mississauga, Canada. One after the other in the same house is this bad luck or something more sinister. Long simmering, what took you so fucking long to get here. Subscribers to the binge can listen to all episodes, all at once, add free. Most ambitious fraud yet worth over one billion dollars. One doctor says my kickback was 25,000 and the other doctors go and we only got 12,000 from Sony Music Entertainment and Western Sound. This is Dr. Billions coming October 1st to the binge. Listen, wherever you get your podcasts. Have you ever bought an organic or quote unquote clean makeup product that faded, it crease, it wouldn't blend clean beauties everywhere, but clean beauty that actually performs and is held to a real standard. That is what's rare. And this search led me to OG. They are certified organic makeup with luxury performance. 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Like, is it more respected now? - Well, I mean, when I first joined, there was no Instagram, right? - Yeah. - So I'm not aware of the whole social media aspect of it. I feel like social media is like a own separate little TV show now. - Yeah. - But everyone self-produces that. - Right, you're on Roni and that's a TV show. And then you're on this social media. You're on YouTube and Instagram and TikTok. - But it's also interesting too because that creates all of these ancillary dividends. Like, you know, Roni, you obviously get paid to be on the show, but then what it really does is platform someone and then they can leverage that to make more money. And so you see that with, you know, housewives creating businesses. - Yeah. - And you have yourself in it. - I think women do it for a lot of different risks. - Money 'cause I saw something recently in Kyle Richards who's asked like, do you think, you know, do you think that being on the show is detrimental to marriages, relationships and all that? Because it appears-- - Yeah, there's like, oh, the housewives curse and everything's gonna blow up. - Yeah. But she says something and I really have to agree. Like, women do this for a lot of different reasons, but I think maybe one of the reasons is that there's just maybe something not perfect about the life that they're living. And this is an opportunity to do something so out of the box, so completely different. - But wait, let's be real though. You're not the first woman and your family to be part of this certain New York scene. Because your mother-in-law, Lee Radsawal, was Jackie Coney O'Neil's sister. She was a socialite. She was one of Truman Capotee's swans. - I always say they were the original reality show. - Really? Were they so funny together? - No, no, no, I'm saying with their ordinary life. - Yeah. - It was really documented. - Oh. - I don't even like they were so sassy and like, they were, I mean, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were, their life, their ordinary life. I mean, it wasn't, it was an extraordinary life, but the, the ordinary things they did every day, I felt so documented. - Yeah. - They were going to the crime scene. - With their granddaughter. - Yeah, yeah. - There'd be a million pictures. - So, I mean, I feel like that was the original, like, family that the public was, you know, obsessed with. - The kind of ideas for sure. - Yeah, and I think those two specifically. What was it like to be part of that world and that family in New York in the '90s? - You know, the '90s gosh, everyone. You know, it was, it was, it was, it was all the things that I think, you know, every woman who's getting married, integrating in their husband's family, and thinking about family, thinking about, you know, and on top of that, Anthony was diagnosed with cancer. So, navigating all of that. But, you know, so, so there was, were you intimidated though to enter that? 'Cause it's like, you're, you meet this guy, you meet him at work, you meet him in the context of work. I'm sure there was like rumors about him. Oh, like, do you know who his mom is or whatever? - Yeah. - But, you know, you were, - He had the, like, the original tagline. It was always like, "Oh, Anthony, rats you well." The son of Jackie Kennedy sister Lee. Like, it was all, it was like, it was tagline. Like, everyone who said it, you know, in the, when, - So it has a big shadow on him for sure. - I think so, but he handled it was such grace and class, you know, he just showed up and he was, - Did he confront it to you, like, in your early dating? Was he like, "Hey, babe, like, we're gonna meet my mom just so you know she is Jackie O's sister." - No. - Okay, I'll tell you. - I'll tell you. - I'll tell you, I'll tell you. Like, I said, we kind of were dating like, secretly, because we were like the couple at ABC News. - You were the aunt couple. - Right, and we didn't want like, everyone to know and all this, but what also, what also, and I think it's unfortunate that with social media, you really can't do this. But like, it's, those beginning moments, those beginning time of any new relationship, what it needs really is privacy, right? To get to know each other. And like, you're not, you're not, people aren't, dick, dick, dick in your ear and stuff. So just because of our circumstances, Anthony, and I were more private, and because of that, also, I didn't want to meet his family. I remember being with Anthony, we were having dinner and then he was like, it was John's birthday, and he was having some birthday party. And, you know, always saying like, oh, my cousin John. - He wasn't, he wasn't, he wasn't. Like, we didn't really talk about it much, but he's like, do you want to come? And I remember thinking, I don't want to. I'm not ready for that. Like, I just, I just wanted to be Anthony and I. And I, we were dating like almost a year before I met his mom and his stepdad at the time of Herbert Ross. So by that time, I was very confident in my relationship. Like, Anthony and I were like really bonded. I knew it was going to be probably end in marriage marriage or at that time, like, just living together. - I love that about you too, that like, even though it was, like, the 90s and it was a different time for women, like, you've always been so independent and feminist and, you know, about your independence. - I mean, I think that got that from my mom. - Yeah, you weren't like, oh, I want to have a white dress and have the kids, you were like, yeah, I'm not this great guy, but we'll live together. (laughing) Well, we ended up living together for like two years before we got engaged and that was mostly a real estate decision because, you know, in New York, I had an apartment, he had an apartment and we were both paying, he was paying more rent than I was and I was spending a lot more time at his apartment and it's like, well, my lease is up. Like, should I renew my lease? But it's like, I'm spending so much time and he was like, don't renew your lease. - Live with me. - It was a funny thing. - Yeah, I think a lot of people were responsible, yeah, a lot of couples get together that way. He's like, my lease is up, we'll come moving with me. And I was like, all right, I had the kind of nicer apartment and it's because I'm girl, but it was far away. His years was in like Harlem and his was in the Upper East Side, yeah. - Yeah. - But so, but obviously they were so big in the culture and in Carolyn. So you, like, what was it like to meet them versus like, what was that first meet you like? - Well, you know, not only was I sort of competent in my relationship with Anthony, but at that point, I had been at ABC News for some period of time and I had traveled and I had been places. And I like, you know, I worked with Peter Jennings, documentary unit at that time. So like, I felt like I was probably naive of the, the naive atta of youth, but I was like, I'm on the level. - Yeah. - I'm like, I love that. - You're like me and Carolyn Bassette. - Too bad. - It's just on the goal of New York. - Yeah. - Well, she kind of grew up similar to that. - Yeah, I grew up and, you know, she met John and had a relationship. I met Anthony, had a relationship. She was making it, you know, a name for herself in fashion. I was making a name for myself in news. But I, you know, I remember like telling, like, you know, a story at lunch that I was going to Cambodia and like, you know, it was a big deal. - Yeah. - That was a really big deal. And, but of course, you know, Lee had already been to Cambodia. - I'm like, Lee's like Cambodia. - Yeah, she's like, she was there in the '60s. - Yeah. - You're like, no, that's my cool story. - But she was great. - She was great. And, you know, she knew it was an important relationship to her son. So she wasn't like a knowing mother-in-law. Like, no, she never really was metalsome. You know, because again, she had her own full life that she loved. And, you know, we saw a lot of her, you know, especially in the summer, every weekend. And we'd be over at her place a lot. But she didn't metal in our relationship. And especially, you know, after we got married. And of course, Anthony was diagnosed then. So I took charge. And she stepped back a little, which I appreciated, you know? - And as someone who, I mean, there's obviously been such a resurgence in interests here. - I think so, that's why mostly because of love stories. - Yeah. So, you know, I know you didn't watch it, but no, I did not. - Do you think, from what you've heard, was there anything that they got right? What do you think that they got the most role on besides they made your husband fat, which I know is upsetting too. (laughing) - I know. - Besides that, they did you dirty girl. He was sexy guy. He went to the gym every day, let it be known. - Yes. - We're putting it on the record now. Anthony had a hot body. He was very fed. He did go to the gym every single morning. - Carol was asleep. - No, I slept. - She was up at 6, going to the gym. - She was like, oh, by the way, Carol, tell them what time you had to get to work in the 90s. - What time? - Yeah, at ABC 10. (laughing) - So, Carol, what'd you do before work? She was like, wake up. (laughing) This was not like, the like hustle culture. You go to soul cycle with your clothes before work. - Like a slower. - Yeah, slower. - And sheaker. - And like, you two, like, you know, get up and put-- - What do you think it got the most wrong love story? - Oh, yeah. Well, I didn't watch, I didn't obviously watch any of the episodes, but it was such a cultural phenomenon, which I was not expecting. And so, I saw a lot of it on social media. Like at certain points, I just couldn't even pick up my phone. Like, it was like, it was like an assault. Like, every-- - It was horrible. - Like all the guys wearing the little stupid hats. - Yeah, I mean, I wasn't aware of all of that. but you have to remember I also that was this same week that I started filming real housewives. So I will say like if the universe is conspiring with me and the fans were manifesting that and I have angels looking out for me like that moment in my life, you know up into that that moment and the bravo con of it all, you know, my life was peace baby. Yeah, we're chilling. Yeah, and and I just enjoying friends and travel and everything. But when I started filming that, you know, the whole city was talking about love story. So we were walking down North Moore. I can remember that. Yes. I almost got into a fight. Yeah, because there were we're people outside of his old department and they were taking pictures and Carol was like two girls like selfies. Yeah, and you were like, what are you doing? Yeah, I was like, can we got to go? Carol's about to like throw down. Yeah, you're not going to do what I was talking. I was like, we gotta leave. I know, you know, that was towards the end. And I just it was so much. It was so much. And you'll see, you'll see, you'll see some of it on Roni. Yeah. Because I couldn't, I couldn't get away from it. And of course, you know, the other cast were genuinely interested in it and watching it and asking questions and stuff. So, you know, it was. What do you think it got wrong, though? Oh, what? I think that they did enough research to get like little details of things like what, there was a fight in the park. And you know, one thing that got wrong is my husband didn't die of testicular cancer, which really bothered me. He died of sarcoma. I wrote extensively about it. So that was a weird detail that they could easily have. But you know, testicular cancer was a little more like provocative or I don't know why they would make, you know, that there's language around that disease that is more provocative than talking about sarcoma, which yeah, not a lot of people know about. But some of the details they got right and then they just made up the obviously they made up the the dialogue and everything else around that detail. Obviously none of them ever met any of us and nor did they try to reach out, you know, to and not I'm not saying that if they had reached out to me or anyone, you know, Narciso who's very close to and John's friends who I still know or, you know, I don't think any of us would have participated in giving them context. But like I'll never forget, there's one detail about Kentucky, Carolyn, there was a scene where she was eating a bucket of Kentucky fried chicken and people were DMing me about that like, you know, did Carol and he Kentucky fried chicken? What is going to get fried? And I was like, and it was so weird for me because we did. And I was like, how like nobody would know about the Kentucky fried chicken buckets, right? Except for Carolyn, me, Anthony and John, she used to bring it, we used to bring it to the hospital that we would we would get sandwiches from William Poll, which is a very exclusive like Delhi on the Upper East Side and her Anthony and John, I guess they ate a little healthy, but we just loved, you know, we went to Wendy's a lot. Yeah. It was just the time where we just needed like comfort food and and and I just couldn't understand where how they would know about that. So I was like, I went, this is a good use of AI. I typed into, I guess, Chad or Google, I don't know. Anywhere in Carol Radswell's book what remains mentions Kentucky fried chicken because I didn't remember right? I don't know right about it. And sure enough, I wrote a schedule of when Anthony first started his chemotherapy and we're in the hospital a lot. There was, I was such a reporter, such a producer. I wrote a schedule saying 9 AM, this visitor, this visitor and like lunch, you know, K.L.E. Yeah. No. And then dinner 8 PM, Carolyn, John Hamilton, who's a very close family friend, John, and it said KFC. Like, so that she feels to have your like obviously so much money was made on lunch story and off of their stories, but you're not profiting from it. No, and I'm okay with that. Yeah. Like, I don't, I don't, you know, my, my book didn't go well. Yeah. I don't think of it. I was like, that's in the culture. Yeah. And yeah, it's too big of a thing to like be demanding or upset about the people are going to, people have always made money off of, off of public stories. Totally. People even criticized me when I wrote my memoir that I was, you know, making money off of that. Yes, off of my own story about my life, my husband and my friends. And, but what remains went back on the best you have special or less. I don't know. It was so cool. We can do like the finger touch a finger touch. Oh, like in the weekend. I love it. Um, you know, and that also is bittersweet. And you'll see that in my reaction to all of that in Roni as well, because we were filming. I was filming a scene when my, when my publisher called to tell me. So I was like, wow. Yeah. That's crazy. Yeah. So you'll see what happens with all of that. I feel like you are an amazing example of life after a spouse's death. You own being a widow in this amazing way and have cultivated such a full life for yourself. And like that you really, and have defined yourself outside of it so much. And I just wonder if there really sometimes I feel like I'm like, I feel like you would, like, because of the book, because of the attention, because of the recent attention, I just feel like I'm, I'm like, I'm still considered, I'm still considered, you know, a widow. I mean, technically I am, because I never remarried, but like, oh, you mean like it's like a, something that tag like it's like a tight, yeah, but I feel like it, like even on the boxes, like single, married, divorced, widowed is a box, like you check. So I'm like, always checking widowed. Yeah. So like, it's like, yeah, it's weird. I know. I mean, but I wonder for people who are, do you have anything specific to offer other windows, even though it's obviously not a box that ever wants to check. You know, you know, maybe information about finances after the death of a spouse, like you obviously found the view. You found the view. Well, I mean, I was widowed so young. So just for all you young widows out there, you can collect your husband's social security at the money turned 60 or when I turned 60, I'm not sure which one it was got life insurance. Yeah. Like, I don't have life insurance, but also I don't have children. So like, no one's die with like a dollar in my bank as you know, I won't because I'm good at spending it. I'll consider that a failure. I don't, I think when you, when you're alive as child free, you don't, I'm not the king of legacy in the same way. So I'm not, I'm not trying to build generational well. Yeah, yeah. My next guest is the pioneering British fashion designer renowned for his signature classic with a twist aesthetic. So Paul Smith, they say, oh, Paul's job. Yes, head of happiness. That's my job. I do close as well. Yeah. I was thinking also a lot in terms of about assets after someone dies because I have this Cartier watch. And I know that you inherited a watch. And so tell us a little bit about that too, because this is that a new watch. No, this is how this for like maybe I got this when I got my book deal. You have generation. I know, but this like by myself, girl, I you did. Yeah, this is not that, but like, yeah, I did inherit Jackie's Cartier watch, which through a series of very strange events, I ended up selling it auction. And because it was cursed. Well, I came, I created, you know, based on the facts of what happened to those three women who were in possession of that watch that that there was something about that watch that linked, you know, all of us, Jackie, Kennedy in the 60s, me in the 90s, and then my best friend in the 2010s. And yeah, I just thought there was there was some some curse, something like cursed about the watch. So I thought the curse. So, so I had this idea that, which I think I got from an Indiana Jones movie, like when you return something that's cursed, it's place of origin that breaks the curse. Listen, as a reporter and as you know, a very logical rational person, but it was just like I do also believe in the universe and coincidence is not always coincidence. And so I decided to auction the watch at Christy's with the hope and intention of Cartier bidding on it. I wish they did and buying it back and like that didn't exactly happen. And then it was at the very last second of the auction, Kim Kardashian bought it. Yeah. And then she returned it too. Well, you know, I don't, I don't know her. I've met her a few times and we have a bunch of mutual friends. Yeah. So if I didn't believe in the curse when I found out that she was going to purchase it, I definitely believed. Yeah, I don't think I believe it, but I thought, oh my God, I underestimated that the power of it because my intention was to like, I don't care if Cartier doesn't get it, someone else will buy it and someone I don't know who I don't care about is some like, what, you know, some collector in Hong Kong, but that she had it and we had all these mutual friends. I just started boomerang back at me. So she had hurt, she had heard rumblings of a pit of this curse through mutual friends. And, and so in fact, she did want to return it. She ended up paying for it. And she called Christie's and said, I'm not going to take possession of the watch and that they should sell it privately. So that did happen. So it got returned. It got returned to the end of Jones. Yeah, I, after I have some conversations with our mutual friends, and I heard that she was very nervous and wanted to perhaps return it. I, you know, I, you know, I, you should do what she thinks is right. And I totally understand. And then I never heard about it again in like two years, went by and someone sent me a clip from her reality show. And she was like wearing the watch, or she was talking about the Kennedy watch. And I was like, it's a fake watch. Yeah. So then I call Christie's like, where's the watch? What's going on? And they told me that it was still in the vault under Rockville Center, which is her a Christie's is. And I said, you need to call Cartier. And he did. And they, they eventually returned. Yeah. Yeah. I was crazy story. That's such a good story. Okay. We're going to wrap up. But I want to just ask you a little bit about your apartment because I feel like you're someone who really, you benefit so much from assets. Like you've had this apartment for such a long time. Yeah. And it's like well, my first department that we bought, and I bought when we first got married, um, appreciated, you know, it was the 90s. New York was much more financially livable and affordable. And we bought our apartment on 82nd and park for $450,000, which at the time was like a fortune. It was kind of a small fortune. Yeah. And, um, and it was a classic six two bedrooms. And what they, wow, they called, they used to call a maids room, which I'm sure they don't anymore. I grew up in a classic six and that maids room. Honey, that was my sister's room. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they're just like a smaller bedroom. I turned ours into an office. And then after he passed away in 1999, I sold it. I did all the things that widow's union was supposed to do. I left ABC. I sold our apartment. I was like, I was not the perfect widow in those years after. What do they say that you should do? They say that you should not do those so that don't make any big life changing decisions for the first year or two, you know, just sort of settle down. I, I mean, I left ABC. It was too hard to go there, you know, after so. And, and then I sold our apartment, but I sold, I sold it for one point to something. Whoa. I mean, that was more money that like I was like, damn, and it was only like six years of, uh, that's crazy. Yeah. So more than doubled and more than doubled in a short period of time. And then I took that money and bought my current apartment, which also a pretty doubled, probably more than doubled now. Yeah. But it's also been 20, you know, 22, 24 years. Yeah. Can you buy it no mortgage? No, what do you mean? Like you took the one point to and bought it out, right? Are you bought? No, I did what everyone does. Do you have a mortgage? Yeah. So what percent are we? Because I know it's like a low, you have like a low percent. Oh, well, I'm trying to just envy Carol for the situation in York to the beautiful apartment that we all know has no, uh, handle on the staircase. It's a, you know, but it's stunning. I invest. I, I, I reinvest a lot, a lot of how I spend my money now is reinvesting in my home. Um, you know, our place is, yeah, but I feel like it's gonna call me and say, well, I have to have a French home. And then the next six months are spent refurbishing to be more French. I've done, I've redone my apartment pretty much top, top to bottom every like five to seven years. But it, but like you said, it's isn't, it's not spending money. It's investing money. I also bought my car on eBay for $4900. So it's not like I'm spending, you know, I could get an expensive car. But, um, that I, I bought, I have a mortgage like everyone else. And but my, my interest is like 2.4. It's crazy. But I did this interest only, I think, for a bit of time. Was that wrong? No, I think it's, um, if you have a 2.4% mortgage, keep the mortgage. Keep the mortgage. Because the stock market returns eight to 10%. Right. So you're borrowing money at a lower rate than you could make investing yet. Which means that you can make a profit. I know. So you're a genius. I'm like, you're the real financial job. Um, but when you're on the housewives now, it's like everyone, it is sort of, uh, like dick measuring contest a little bit of like who has what? You know what I mean? Like you vote the girl's job with their little counties and their glam is perfect. And they have, they probably got the rich ones getting stylist. But you're so confident in yourself. Like I feel like you always look so good. But you don't play that game. And it's like a good financial lesson to all of us. Because it's about finding your own personal style versus trying to keep up with the Joneses, which then will make you broke. Yeah. I think that there is, there is, uh, another perceived housewife person. That is a, there are some women that go on the show and, and they live beyond their means. Yeah. They spend on the little bridge. Right. And, and that is really, um, that is something that will, will bite you. Oh, yes. Um, no sense. You don't do any keep cocking. No. Yeah. Which is so poor. I'm like, this is my 90s coded, I think. Yeah. I mean, like, I think we, we net, women didn't do it as well. I mean, like I think that when I growing up in the 90s and being like a young adult in the city, like we, you know, I guess I certainly could have had like, fancier, like designer things and, and bags. But you wouldn't, like if you're, like, that was for like older women, like, socialites. Like you wouldn't be like, can you tell me how the crazy bags, they don't even leave didn't even like good jewelry. Like where did she, did her wealth, like, show it all what she wore in her homes? Oh, she had beautiful homes. Maybe that's how I am from. It is. And remember, and, and that is very swan, like, which is what all those women were called. She invested in travel and her, and her homes. And that's, oh god, that's kind of what I do. There you go. Oh my god, I just, I just, I just, I'm learning about yourself and you're spending habits on financial tea. Oh, okay. That's kind of, yeah. Anyway, yeah. So that, there you go. So I don't, I don't, whatever. Peacock. I don't, I don't know. And the style on housewives is pretty trashy. You make it a lot better. I feel like, I, you know, style, and this is from my mother-in-law style is, to me, is, is the way you live your life. You, people live their lives as style. And that cuts across all aspects of your life, fashion, home, travel, cultural style. Like wearing a good outfit is just, an out, is just fashion. But it's not necessary style. Like, and there are some women on this show that I can wear you. It's a big style. Yeah. Which is, like, I don't think it's stylish, but it's their style. Yeah. So we celebrate them. Yes. Gold girl. Okay. Now, Carol, you're, I'm going to have to make you say something that you're not going to like because you don't want anyone to do this. You think that a lot of got that we should be socialist and money should go back to the communities. But first of all, yeah, well, I'm saying like, a choice between fascism and socialism, democratic socialism, and what we're facing now with, with this fascist system that we're sort of, and it's not even capitalism anymore. I call it corporatism. I read about it. Its corporations are in charge now. There's no more, there's no more free market. They're consolidating power. They're consolidating wealth in a few handful of politicians. And the politicians are profiting. But what I was going to make you say at the end of the show, I get, of course, but I just wanted you to say with me on the kind of three-stay rich. But I didn't know if that was like a gangster. But I'm glad that we went through all the parts together. Okay. I'm not saying, I'm just saying, listen, there are ethical, there are ethical billionaires. But they're not many. Okay. But hold me hand, where you're in the lean. Look at the camera. Okay, which camera? Look at the middle one. And we're just going to say, God, you got three cameras. We got three. Is that financially prudent? It is because this is an investment. Okay, what are we saying? Stay rich. Okay. One, two, three. Stay rich. That is great.