How Properly Conduct a Discovery Call & Not Scare Away Your Prospect

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How are you discovery calls? Are they scaring away your prospect or are they actually helping them to make an informed decision? If they're not that great, check out this episode. We're going into the archive, calling out one of our best ones from 2022. Jeremy Minor. Check it out. Hey, hey, hey, hey, everyone. Welcome to another great episode of Sales of Angeles Podcast. I'm your host, Donald C. Kelley. The sales of Vangelist. And I'm so excited for another great episode. I'm so excited to be here with you today. On this episode, I have the one and only Mr. Jeremy Minor, and you've probably heard of him. We've probably seen him on YouTube, and you've probably passed some of his ads. Man is everywhere, but he shares a lot of great insights. On today's episode, I'm going into our archive to pull this one out. We spoke a couple of years ago, a few years ago now, and in this conversation, we focused on what can we do better to conduct better discovery calls, and how can we make sure we're not repelling and pushing away our prospects? He goes through his process and shares what he does and how you can adopt these things to help you improve. If this is your first time listening to our podcast, go ahead and subscribe, because we're going to drop amazing content like this each and every time. And if you're a long time listener, go ahead and hit me up on LinkedIn or share this episode with someone that you know that can benefit from it. As always, listen and see how you can apply these things and actually take one or two things that you can utilize. I want you to improve. Check it out. Jeremy, welcome to the show, man. Donald, thanks for having me on. You know, I'm going to take all of that as a compliment. My kids are pretty, pretty boring. So thank you. Oh, one ever, man. I'm sitting here blowing you up on this introduction, like, gave you some amazing, like, I think, hopefully, I've set the stage enough. And you know, sometimes you go ahead and hype something up to your friends. You're like, this restaurant's so good and they go in and they're like, uh, but I know you're going to, if this is a case, you're a restaurant, they're going to want to come back for more. Well, you know, rumor has it that that could be a possibility. For sure. No, it's an honor to be on your show. And, you know, I've been listening to your show the last couple of weeks and, man, I love it. I love it. You know, it's, it's always good because a lot of podcasts that I've seen just don't really give much tactical information. It's going to help a sales professional that's going to help a business owner, you know, grow their book of business, scale their company if they own the business, sell more if they're sales persons, all theory and just gets really boring and just, yeah. So good job. Well, man, I appreciate it. Listen, Jeremy, we're going to be talking today about this idea of the discovery call, how to properly conduct a discovery call and not scare away these beautiful prospects that we have. I talked, I bragged about you a little bit at the beginning of the episode, but would you be willing to take it like a second and just tell us a little more about what you do on a day-to-day basis, like what makes us like, what makes Jeremy the man? Well, I mean, holy, that's a pretty loaded question. So typically, our clients, how do I answer that? Typically, I'll tell you what our clients tell us that come from, who cares about me, like I'm biased, right? I feel like I'm the man, but what our clients tell us is they come to us because, you know, they're worried about, you know, losing sales to low-cost competitors. They're, you know, frustrated sometimes that maybe their teams are not consistently hitting their quota, right? They're up one month down the next, up one month down the next. Like, they can't have a steady pattern always going in the north. And I think a lot of people, you know, especially business owners, even sales professionals just, you know, are just tired of weaning it and they don't have the confidence to really get on every single sales call and know that they have a predictable result. Like, it's just like weaning it, saying things, hoping and praying that something they're going to say is going to trigger the prospect magically want to buy. So what we do is we come into companies, we do audits like that, and we train them how to use, let's say, how to use certain questions and techniques that work with human behavior, that actually get the prospect to want to pull you in, to want to engage with you, to want to be open to your questions instead of emotionally shutting down and triggering sales resistance like most sales people have been taught. So I would say that's a lot of what our clients would say that we do so well for them to give them that type of result from getting them from here to up here where they want to be. So now you just got everybody on the edge of their seat because they're like, this is exactly why I came. This is why I paid for the admission to this event today to hear this stuff. Because the discovery call, Jeremy, is one of those things that is I feel if you do a great discovery, you're more than halfway there for the deal to be closed. Well, the sales made in the engagement process in the discovery call. It's not made like you know, Donald, at the end, when you say, do you want the red one under the blue way, who's to the contract's name being yours or your spouses like the sales not made or lost by some silly closing technique that's been around since like 1915. It's when I lost during the discovery process of that first conversation really. And it doesn't matter if you're in a B2C, you know, one call or two call clothes to more of a B2B complex selling environment, the sale really is one or lost at hello and in that discovery part of the process. That's where it's made. Oh, amen. Listen, guys, can you make that the click to tweet in this episode? I want that as the click to tweet. I think we got a lot of click to tweets on this one. Jeremy, one of the things that we and I talked about in the beginning when we were framing out this episode was this idea of what makes a bad discovery, what pushes people away. And I can tell you that many people when they think about sales professionals and you know this dude, they say, they're pushy, they're sleazy, blah, blah, blah, blah, although those those negative things, but usually what happens is because the sales people triggers what you call this fight or flight mode. Yeah. Can you talk to me about that and how this can help us to have better discovery? Yeah, you know, the funny thing is I just had an event here in where I headquartered at in Scottsdale, Arizona with a bunch of like private clients, these are all like sales professionals make a lot of money in their careers now. And we talked about so many sales people have been taught this theory. You've heard it. I could probably read it in half of these books behind me and it's like, you've got to follow the ABCs of closing of like oh, be closing. And I say, you know what? If you want to be average, you should follow the ABCs of closing because that's what you're going to get because that mainly triggers fight or flight mode with today's cautious skeptical buyers. If you want to be great at sales, if you're a business owner and you want to double and triple and quadruple where your firm and company is at now, you have to learn what we called the A, B, D's of selling. You've skipped the C's. It's always B disarming, don't we have to always be disarming? Here's one thing that most people have just never thought. Now this is my nerdy background behavioral science, human psychology and college, right? I, you know, I wasn't smart enough. I think you went to school at BYU Idaho or something, right? Yeah, I did. Yeah, I wasn't smart enough to get in that school. I'd be able to use how Valley University because of my GPA, but I did study behavioral science and human psychology, you know, I nerd out on this stuff. And one thing that a lot of people, I especially find with sales people because they just don't know what they don't know. I didn't know what I didn't know before I started learning behavioral sciences. They never really think about what triggers a prospect to buy or not to buy. What triggers sales resistance? They think that the lead is bad or the prospect was just had fear or it's a prospect spot. But what we don't understand is that we're triggering that behavior by what we're saying and or not asking, okay? So one thing that sales people have to be very aware of, and I find this, I'm like, oh my, when I hear a salesperson, I'm like, oh my gosh, like, you are literally like causing that person to run the other way because most sales people come across way too enthusiastic and they first get on that discovery call or that first sales interaction. It doesn't matter if it's a cold call, if it's, you know, in person, if it's on Zoom, inbound lead, outbound lead, in a boardroom meeting, it doesn't matter. And they start talking about their solution way too early in the conversation. Now, I know when I say that, when I go to events, a lot of sales people, especially they're a little bit older. I find that if they're, you know, 20s or 30s, I think they've cut on to this a little bit so far, but some are a little bit older than me. They're like, no, I was taught that I have to be excited about what I sell that, you know, if I'm enthusiastic, that somehow the prospect is magically just going to be excited about what I sell too. And I'm like, really? A sales person was really excited when they first started to try to sell you and close you. Like, how did you react? And typically when I say that to like, well, you know, I'm just like, well, if they're acting, if you're acting that way to a enthusiastic sales people person, what do you think your prospects are doing to you? It's like a revelation with some of these people, I swear, that they come across so excited. Now, do I believe that you need to be excited about what you sell? Yes. But you have to keep that to yourself. You have to keep your excitement internal. You have to get rid of what we call commission breasts, right? You know what I'm talking about. Now, let's get back to, I'm going out in Lapland, right? So let's come back to center field here. Do you want to ask me about fight or flight mode? Okay. So we have to understand. Quarter behavioral science within the first seven to twelve seconds of every sales call you're on or any sales action you are with a prospect. They are subconsciously picking up your verbal and nonverbal cues. They cannot help it. We can't help it as a human being subconsciously. We are picking up on social cues, your verbal and nonverbal cues based on your tonality and what you are saying and/or asking that triggers the human brain to react in one of two ways. Now, back to your point. If you come across aggressive on the call, and this is in the first ten seconds, if you come across needy, but you need that sale and you come across attached, that's the keyword attached. And you don't know the right questions to ask, well, what happens? It triggers the brain to go into what we call fight or flight mode where the prospect tries to get rid of you very quickly and they say things like this. You know what? I'm too busy right now. Can you just call me back later or this sounds good, but I think we already have somebody that does that or we don't need it, we don't have the money for that or I'm good, not interested. Can you call me back in a week a month or year later? Now everybody listening to us right now, how many times do you get on your calls and your prospects actually say something like that to you? Even sometimes on booked inbound leads, okay, that's because you're triggering that. It's not them, it's you, okay, we have to think in the dating game, it's not, it's you, right? Now, if you learn how to come across neutral, like non-biased, okay, like you're not sure if you can even help them, you're not saying that, okay, but you're acting that way. You're more calm and especially you're more detached. That's the key word detached and you ask the right questions at the right time. It triggers the human brain to become curious enough where they actually want to engage with you, okay, where they actually want to open up to you because you might have something that could be very important to them, okay? So we have to learn how to come across, I would say detached from the, let's say expectations of making the sale and instead focus on whether or not we can actually help them, whether or not there's even a sale to be made in the first place, okay? Yeah. Start to think like that. It triggers them to become more open to your question so they don't shut down emotionally when you ask a question. Now, do I mean when you get on a sales call or a discovery call or a meeting that you shouldn't, your goal is not to make a sale or progress it to the next step? Not at all. Your goal is to make a sale or a progression, depending on what you sell on every single sales call you're on, but you have to keep that to yourself. The moment your prospect feels like they are being sold to is the moment that they emotionally start to shut down. Truth, lies and work is brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals. Even husband and wife team Al and Leanne Elliott as they dispel myths, impart wisdom and answer all your questions about finding, keeping and motivating great people. People who listen to this podcast loves the unique blend of theory and practice which helps business owners and leaders simplify consumer psychology. Plus, if you enjoy learning what makes people tick, then this show is perfect for you. I listened to the latest episode about small talk and being a sales guy, this was one that I was kind of keen to listen to, but it gives some great insights that I didn't think about when it comes to small talk and a sales process. You should check it out yourself and see if you should continue your small talks or not, I'm not going to give you the answer. 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I wanted to pull you out, but I mean this was like you're going so good on this thing. I didn't want you to stop you on it. I wanted to see if there's a way we can demonstrate that for the folks here listening real quick. What would you like to know? So this idea of like working towards that curiosity or setting it up like that in a way that you just describe it there, trigger curiosity to rather push it off. So let's say I'm a sales, I'm a buyer, you're the sales professional. I don't know. You sell, I always use a water example. You sell water systems. These beautiful things. Thanks to Skipio. But how do you start off that conversation and we don't have to go too long, just like maybe in two minutes. But I wanted to see this in action of how you can demonstrate that curiosity. We want to ask what are called connecting questions, okay. Every stage of the process, so what we train on is called neuroemotional persuasion question. It's a methodology that I developed in my behavioral science background, my psychology, human psychology background. It stands for neuroemotional persuasion questioning, dialogue, right when we ask any PQ, neuroemotional persuasion question. So the first part of the conversation, excuse me, is connecting questions. How do we take the focus off of us, Donald, and put the focus on the prospect? So let's say that you're an inbound lead. You've booked on my calendar and let's say that you're inquiring about some type of water filtration system or something. I don't know. Or let's say that, you know, I was just working on a script right before this. Maybe we could use that one. But let's say you sell lead generation to companies, right? And let's say the company, you know, they like who they have, but they've inquired. They've booked on your calendar because maybe they're not getting the right quality of leads. Maybe they feel like they don't have the right marketing, okay, or what's going on. Let's just say something like that. So let's say I get on zoom, let's say it's on a zoom called be a little bit different for an outbound lead. I can give an example of that, but an inbound lead, they get on zoom and it's just like, "Hey, can you hear me? I can hear you. Yeah." But you never want to start off doing. Disingenuous. Your prospects know that you are not going to set there for 30 minutes and let them tell you about their day and how they're really doing. It's such a non-starter like you're already triggering fight or fly mode because every single salesperson who sells them anything starts off with the predictable. How are you doing? So you don't do that. So you get on and you just kind of get right to business. Okay. So let's say I'm flipping through their application order. Okay. So John, so thanks for being on. Looks like you had booked on a calendar about possibly getting some outside help with getting kind of a higher quality lead to your sales people, right? Yes. Yes. Yeah. Okay. I would say the first part of this call, I would say it's really more for us to find out more about kind of your company's background as far as what they do to generate leads now. And then I would say really what you guys are looking for, you know, just to see if we can actually help because there's some firms where there's just not much we can do for them. You know what I mean by that? Sure. Yeah. Now, why do I do that? Why do I say to see if we can actually help because there's some companies where there's just not much we can do for them? Why would I ever say something like that? Why would I ever admit? Maybe I can't help them. I think the beautiful part about that is that you're giving them, it's a curiosity for a factor first off. And I think human psychology, I want to figure out, well, am I one of those or can you really help me? Yes. Maybe you can't help me. Let me just see. My company's different anyways. Let me just see if this guy really can do it. It automatically causes the prospect to pull you in like, oh, am I somebody they can't help? Because if you get on on the flip side and say, I'm so excited for you to be on this call. Like, I know we can help your company. I've been doing a lot of research and I know we can get you guys here. Every salesperson says that. And so I want to make sure, by the way, your prospects trust you less when you get on there and just start assuming without even knowing what problems even have because maybe they don't need you. Now, do they need us? Probably. That's why they booked on the calendar. But I want to not trigger fight or flight mode where the prospect is emotionally going to shut down when I ask him certain questions and I'm never going to find out what the real problems are. I'm never going to find out the root cause of the problem. I'm never going to help them find out how the problems affecting them unless they're what open unless they want to tell me that. So by me being unbiased, by me being neutral and saying, you don't say, well, there's a good chance we can't help you. That's completely different, but if I'm neutral, if I'm neutral, you can't be so positive and negative. You're in the middle. You're not quite sure yet without finding out what more information of what's going on. Yeah. And when you start to act like that, your prospect starts to view you much differently than they do any other salesperson. They start to view you as more of the expert, more of the authority or the trusted authority whereas a salesperson just gets on there and assumes, assumes, assumes. And so they just kind of put you to the side and commoditize you, okay? Yeah. So if you want to stand out, you got a trigger engagement. You know what I like about that part of the journey is that it now, if I were to prospect going through just simple roleplay scenario there, put myself in that frame of mind thinking, I want to divulge as much as I can now to help us, and it's not just you, but to help us to determine if this is going to be a good fit because, yeah, it's like, could this work? It's that could maybe if I don't know what that entails you had to see. Yeah. Like, if you ever did on a call in the prospect says, Hey, you know, I just, I got on this call. I'm not even sure why I'm here. Like, we already have that like just, you know, tell me in 30 seconds, like, why should we go with you? Now, what do most salespeople do? Well, yeah, I'm going to tell you right now, yeah, we should, you should go with us because we're rated triple a rated with a better business bureau. We're the number one company in this. We've been around for 17 years. Our clients are X and B and Z and K and, and like all this stuff, like throwing up, hoping that something they're going to say is going to trigger them to want to listen, but you know what you should do when they say that? Well, you know, I'm not quite sure you should yet. You know, I'd have to know a little bit more about what you're doing in XYZ area. Just to see if we could even help you because there's some firms where there's just not much we can do for them. You know what I mean about that? And you know what the product is going to do. They're going to be like, and they're just going to open up because you're admitting that you made this shouldn't. You don't know enough yet to even know, okay? It triggers a prospect to be open to you because there's more trust. There's trust within 10 seconds of me saying that compared to a salesperson spending an hour with the prospect, I've already gained more trust than 10 seconds, but that's makes sense. Listen, y'all, that was the price for admission you paid to come to this. You got it already from what he's just shared there. If you're not doing that, and if you want to turn around your discoveries, if you want to increase the close rate, start doing that. Promise you're going to feel a little more of that. Yeah. And Donald, if they ever want any more resources like that, some questions like that, they can always join our free Facebook group. I think I gave you the link, the www.salesrevolution.rupe. And when they join, there's like a two-question survey about what industry they're in, product services. It gives us more data so we know who's in our group. We have about 12, 13,000 people in there now. And when they join, somebody, my team will tag them a free training. It's a free resource on some of those questions to use in situations. It's called the NEPQ 101 Mini Course, I think. So we'll get tagged that for free if they ever want to learn more about that because I just gave you a little nibble. Are you struggling to close deals? B2B selling is tougher than ever before and that's why I will tell you about LinkedIn Sales Navigator. Listen up. LinkedIn Sales Navigators is a sales intelligent platform that helps sales professional effectively prospect and engage high-valued customers, drive higher revenue and increase sales performance. Sales Navigator helps target the right buyers. Surface key signals such as job changes or which account you should prioritize. It shows you hidden allies so you can find those buyers that are most likely convert. Fueled by LinkedIn, 1 billion members platform, yes, 1 billion, Sales Navigator gives you the most up-to-date, first-party data enabling you to unlock conversations with the people that matter. Right now, you can try LinkedIn Sales Navigator, get a 60-day free trial at LinkedIn.com/tse. That is LinkedIn.com/tse for a 60-day free trial. Try it for yourself. I'm going to bring people on a show that I don't feel can bring a value. I got a chance to go with Jeremy. I didn't know if he was going to be a good guest and we did our difference. He turned out to be an amazing guest so with the information so I highly recommend it. I wanted to just touch on one last thing before we wrap up your journey, it was this idea of connecting on the complexity and natural behavior. You don't want to push the prospect away. I know we talked about that a little bit. You mind shedding light on that first sec before we wrap up? Like I said, human behavior, you want to learn the right questions that trigger them to want to engage and pull you in. In my sales curve, when I first started, if you've ever read my story or whatever, I won't go into the boring details but I really struggled when I first got started. I think so many people are like, "Oh my gosh, he must have been born out of their mother's womb and just had these amazing skills." Well, unless children are born with amazing questioning skills, that's probably something that's learnable. Nobody's born with those skills. When I hear that I'm like, "Good Lord, think about it." It's like saying a golfer is just born with golfing skills. No, they freaking practice all the time. It's just like sales professional. You have to realize if you want to be great at sales, if you want to elevate your game. I don't care if you're already making two or three hundred thousand a year in commissions. If you want to make four, five or six hundred thousand, we've got individual sales people that went for making five grand a month, that make a million dollars a year in commissions now selling the same product or service they sold before. It's all about acquiring the right skills. It's about learning the right skills. I think so many sales people think that sales is just sales. It's all the same. Like sales trains, it's all the same. Well, I'm not so sure about that. You know, if you really think about it, because you can learn skills that trigger resistance, that you then have to learn objection handling skills to overcome the resistance that your skills created, which never made any sense to me. So I'm going to learn how to prevent the objection from happening. One thing I always talk about on sometimes on podcasts, if you don't mind me sharing about objection handling. Because I know a lot of sales people are like, "How do you overcome objections?" We can teach you how to overcome objections, I'm sure Donald, you teach how to overcome objections too, but I would rather prevent the objection from even happening in their mind. It makes selling easy when 80% of your sales are just lay down. Whereas most sales like 80% of them are like fighting and out, deepening and squawking and they're emotionally drained out. Why not learn how to prevent the objections from happening? One thing we have to understand is that most of your objections that you get are actually triggered by you, the sales person. Let me say that again. Most objections you get right now are actually triggered by something you said or questions you didn't ask that didn't pull out enough emotion, right? Here's what I'll have to understand. When that conversation starts, we have to help them find out what their current situation is. We call that their current state. You might have heard everybody's heard that. Now, we also have to help them see what their future is going to look like. We call that their objective state, once they have their objectives. Now, what's the missing piece? We have to as a sales person help them see in their mind this gap from where they are compared to where they want to be. How is the gap brought about? Not by us? Hoping there's a gap in their mind, but by us asking the right questions that build that gap in their mind because most of our prospects, when we first talk to them, like you know, Donald, don't even realize they have a problem or maybe they know they have a problem, but they don't really understand how bad the problem is or maybe they don't understand the consequences of what will happen if they don't do anything about solving the problem. Now, once you learn the right questions, you learn the right tone out and how to deliver that, not only are you able to help your prospects find one problem, but now you're able to help them see that they have two problems or three problems or maybe four or five problems that they didn't even think they had, okay? So we call that problem finding. We have to become way better at problem finding in our day and age than we are even at problem solving. You know, any sales book you've ever read will see you got to be great at problem solving. That sounds good, but if you can't help the prospect find out what their real problems are, they're never going to buy from you and you can't really problem solve unless they buy your product or service, right? I never understood that. So you have to be great at problem finding, asking the right questions at the right time that allows them to see that in their mind, okay? That by changing their situation, okay, up here, getting to what they want is far less risky for them than it is for them to do nothing at all. Staying in the status quo, problems stay the same and nothing ever changes like which is actually more risky if you think about it. What are your thoughts on that, Donald? Bro, I love it. It's a hundred percent right in line. I think we're a kindred spirits because it's right in line with the belief system that I have. Yeah. The idea there was especially that last piece where you're sharing, I like it. We can be, I think goes back to this notion of the being the expert, right? If I'm coming to you and I'm year to go back to this water example or whatever, it's like always use water and podcasts. But if you're an expert on water and you know, like if you talk to, you know, 10 people, you know the main challenges that they're facing, you can then be, you can better, I help me to identify those problems beforehand and to find those problems and to bring those out because then it's going to save me time. It's going to save you time. So I think it just makes so much better than to go back to the reactive approach of selling of saying, like you know, saying, whoa, we're just going to, let's just start overcoming objections and hoping and praying and just, it makes selling solutions easier. You make so much more money. You're able to help way more people, you're right. It's a hundred percent. You know, selling is one thing on it. You know, I had, I had somebody at the last of it and asked me like, if you could sum up selling in one word, what would the one word be? And to me about 10 seconds, I'm like, selling is change. Oh, yeah. It's selling is. It's just change. It's about how good you are, like I said, about getting your prospect to view in their mind, not by telling them because, John, do you know just as well as I do, if you tell them what their problems are, it's going to go in one ear out the other because you're biased, right? You're the sales person, but it's asking the right questions that allow them to see clearly in their mind and more importantly, feel in their body and soul that by changing their situation with you, meaning buying your product and service is way less risky for them than then doing nothing at all, staying in the status quo, nothing ever changes. Now, here's one thing that we have to understand about human behavior. I'll give everybody like a little lesson on human behavior. Selling is all about change, but human beings don't like change. Oh, come on. Oh, come on. Oh, come on. Let me repeat. Okay. So I say that sometimes super like, what? What's going on? So selling is all about change, but human beings do not like change even though we say we do. Okay. And why? Yeah. Because it makes us feel uncomfortable, especially, think about change. Big changes you have to make. You're like, man, for me to be successful, I know I have to do this, but then you're uncomfortable with, right? So we want to do it, but it's very uncomfortable for us, especially when it's initiated by some pushy sales person who's ready to pick their products and services within the first 30 seconds of meeting a prospect. And human behavior shows that we value more tradition. We value more something that is known to us or familiar over something that we don't like very much because it's new or forntous. So we don't like what we have, but we'll stay with that sometimes because the other thing is unknown. It's like falling to it. So we have to understand, we are not a sales professional. We're not a business owner, if you're the business owner, we are not there to sell the thing. Okay, we're not there to sell the water bottle or the water filtration unit. We're not there to sell the home. We're not there to sell the leads. We're not there to sell the cybersecurity software to the bank. We're not there to sell the car, okay? We're selling the results of what those things do for the prospect. That's what we're selling. We're not selling the thing. We're selling the results of what that thing does. We have to start thinking that way. Oh man, listen, guys, if you want to go ahead and learn more about all this amazingness, go back and check out the link down below in the show notes and get into the group and connect with Jeremy and all the good stuff that he's doing. I wish I could keep you a little bit longer, Jeremy, because I know he's going to get mad at me for taking two hours of his time, but we're going to bring you back. We're going to bring you back. It's totally up to you. But yeah, if they want to learn more about what we do or anything, you know, on these podcasts, we're like, you know, sometimes when they go follow him on IG, go here, go here and everybody gets confused. So I think the best place to get any resources from us that are free is just have them go to that Facebook group, the sales revolution dot group and a right when they join a couple questions, the survey thing, ask them and then check your DMs on Facebook, because someone I'm in team is going to message you over a free resource of some of those questions. Like I said, Donald, thanks for having me on. Hopefully I gave your audience a few things to think about as far as like going to the next level. So wherever you're at right now, let's say you're a sales person. You make three grand a month or you make five or you make seven or eight or twelve or fifteen or twenty five, thirty. I don't care. There's always levels that you can go up. And I think, you know, one of the biggest things that a lot of sales people don't understand and I didn't understand it when I was very young in the sales 20 years ago is that your biggest expense in life is your lack of knowledge and your peak man. Your biggest expense in life is your lack of knowledge of not having the right sales skills that allows you to get up to 300,000 a year in income or three, 50 or four or five or six or even more. And once you acquire those skills, you can do anything you want. You can go anywhere in the world you want to go. You can go sell anything you want. You can go sell for anybody. You can get paid more because you're selling way more for the companies you represent. And if you're the business owner and you want to scale your companies, it's, you know, you've already hit these milestones and benchmarks and well done. But where do you want to go in as far as future improvements in your sales ability for your reps so you can double that, triple that because it's available for you. It's just lack of knowledge. Once you solve that problem, get the right knowledge, selling becomes very easy. I absolutely love this. Money in the bank, ladies and gentlemen, Jeremy, thank you so much for coming on the show man. Appreciate you. Appreciate you wisdom. Of course. Of course, we're going to bring you back because you bring so much knowledge. So thank you again. Appreciate you. And thanks for having me on. Have a lot of fun. Thanks for having me on. This was awesome. That was Jeremy Minor again. If you haven't done so, go ahead and connect with him. Tell him you heard him here on the sales evangelist podcast. And I am grateful to have you here. I hope that you had a wonderful 2025 and I hope that your 2026 is going off to an amazing start that you have some stuff in a pipe already that you're building, you're working towards. Try to concept it you learned today from Jeremy and see how you can use this to be able to help you to advance and improve your sales skills. As always, I want you to thrive and succeed. If you want to learn and to practice your sales skills, not just to be in lectures, check out our sales mastermind, the salesavangilist.com/mastermind. Now in this mastermind is designed simply. We have about 12 people in a cohort and the goal of the cohort, you set a goal at the beginning of the semester. We help you to work through that over 90 days and we challenge you. You have accountability. There's no riff wrapping. You can't hide. You set a goal to make $300,000 every week we're going to hold you to the fire. What is that? One thing you're doing towards that. We're going to break it down into micro goals so you can have things you can accomplish on a day-to-day basis. You're making your calls, your emails, you're doing your outreach. You're connecting with the right people or you're networking. We want to help you to improve and you're going to come across objection. How do you overcome certain objections? Practice it before you go with the prospects and that's what we're trying to do and to help you out with. If you haven't done so already, go ahead and subscribe to the podcast but go ahead and check out the sales evangelist mastermind as well. The salesavangilist.com/mastermind. As always, I want you to thrive. I want you to succeed. I want you to raise the level of thinking. I want you to have better discovery as Jeremy taught today. Most importantly, I want you to go out and do big things. Happy New Year. The sales evangelist podcast is created by the sales evangelist sales training organization. It is produced by TSE Studios, our podcast production manager is Nancy Paul, our audio engineer is Jershon O'Biole. Our video engineer is Desson Cunado. Guests management is done by Jill, Vito and Kristi Virtus. Our content writer is Carlisa Galbreath, our graphic designer's Yuravish Savalia and I'm your host and executive producer, Donald C. Kelly. podcast network.