How ICE activity became an issue retailers big and small can no longer ignore

Welcome to the Modern Retail Podcast. Our show that covers the ways the retail industry is changing and modernizing. I'm Senior Reporter Gabby Barco. I'm here with co-host Melissa Daniels. Over the past couple of weeks, the tensions in cities across the country over ice presence has accelerated prompting civil unrest. No sector or area of American life seems immune, and we're seeing a big effect especially in retail. Stores and restaurants have become hotspots for ice activity, from the parking lots to the aisles to even behind the counters sometimes. And now businesses are also taking a stance with their own forms of protests, boycotts, and activism. All companies in cities like Minneapolis are walking a tight rope in responding to ISIS growing presence. And so this week, Executive Editor Anna Hensel joins us from Minneapolis to give us an overview of what is happening on the ground. Hello, Anna. Thank you for joining us. Yeah. It's a weird time to be here for sure. So I live in Minneapolis, so I wouldn't, if you would ask me a year ago, I wouldn't have expected to be on a podcast talking about ice activity in Minneapolis, but here we are. It's, of course, an important issue, and it is really impacting business and retailers a lot here. So I mean, you go to talk about it just to give people a better understanding of what exactly is happening here. Yeah, Anna, I appreciate your perspective on this not only as someone who is seeing the day-to-day unfold, but someone who also, due to your job, has kind of an innate knowledge of how companies deal with these big moments in American life and how to respond or whether to respond and all the different things they're weighing. So I'm excited to get into some of that today so we can kind of share what we've been seeing. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So here to give kind of an on-the-ground perspective of what it's like in Minneapolis. So I guess Gabby and Melissa, do you have any questions for me? I think one thing that I'm wondering about is, you know, there's the ice activity and then there's the protests and it seems like those are sort of two different ways that this activity is manifesting, right? There's the actual actions of the agents and then there's the response from the community and opposition to that. And, you know, are you seeing this kind of unfold like certain times of day or, you know, where is ice presence popping up and how is that affecting, you know, day-to-day life and then is the protest like a constant thing or just in response to some of these hot moments? I've thought a lot about how to talk about this because I've had a lot of people in my day-to-day life who live elsewhere, again, just ask me what's it like in Minneapolis? And so because we are a business podcast, the information I want to give today is really centered around giving people a better understanding of how this is impacting businesses. So really what I'm focusing on at the beginning here is just like, what is the ice presence like in Minneapolis and how is that impacting day-to-day life? So the first thing you need to understand is that there are a lot of ice agents in Minnesota relative to the population, and in particular, it really dwarfs the number of police officers here. So these are details that I pulled from my hometown paper, which is the Minnesota Starcher Bune. And this is from an article entitled Homeland Security Presence in Minnesota, Dwarfs, Twin Cities, Largest Police Forces. So again, if you want more numbers to understand the context of this, look at that article. So here are some quotes from that article, a potential 3,000 federal agents from ice and border patrol is equivalent to five times the manpower of the Minneapolis Police Department. It's close to the total headcount of sworn officers among the region's largest 10 law enforcement agencies and equals nearly one agent for every 1,000 members of the Twin Cities 3.2 million residents. And that's what we're working here. You basically have one ice agent for every 1,000 people in the Twin Cities, which that is just a very stark number, and that's why I wanted to highlight that. So what does that mean is that again, it means that you are more likely to encounter an ice officer in your every day-to-day life. I personally have not, but because they are out there actively looking at people's immigration statuses, again, it makes it more likely that you might encounter one. So how does this impact businesses? You know, here are things that I've heard in my time here in the past few weeks. You know, on Instagram, I might see a restaurant post that, hey, we are closed for the day because we weren't able to have enough staff come in because they're scared of going out and running into ice. If you run a corporate business, maybe you have an employee who has to work from home on a random Wednesday because their kid's daycare is closed because, again, they're short-staffed. Maybe you have an employee who is late coming into work because ice agents blocked off a street that they're doing an enforcement on, so it took them longer to get to work. If you run a boutique, you might find that businesses slow on a particular day because there were a lot of reports on social media that ice tear gas to crowd nearby and the customers are scared to be in that general area. There's a lot of reporting out there about this. Some businesses, especially those that serve immigrant communities report that foot traffic is down 50, 60, sometimes 90%. So that's kind of how I would couch it. You know, Melissa, you asked about protests as well. It's something that happens, of course, again, I'm not running into it in my day to day life. And I would say that's not really impacting businesses as much as the fact that there is a huge number of officers here and it increases the likelihood that people will run into them in their day to day life and they might be changing their patterns accordingly. I appreciate how you're pointing out the effect that ice activity can have on local businesses. It might sound a bit pat for me to say that, quote unquote, ice is bad for business. But I think in a realistic and day to day, logistical sense, that's very true. I see that here in my community as well, folks will post on social media if ice activities in a certain area and then that's going to steer people away. But it's really this kind of dark force that's sort of unfolds and I think makes people want to retreat. And if you're someone who's trying to keep your small business afloat, and we know that small businesses don't typically have like sky high margins, you know, these are people who are really living in their day to day business really matters to their bottom line. This stuff can be really hard to navigate. Yeah. And so as we're getting into more like, how is this impacting retail specifically? So something that happened here in Minneapolis, but also greater Minnesota. This was on Friday, January 23rd. There was a general strike that a lot of businesses participated in. So I have seen different estimates that anywhere from 500 to 600, maybe even a thousand businesses closed that day. And it was a lot of again, restaurants, smaller retail boutiques. And basically they closed because I saw reports of, you know, at first on like the Monday before the 23rd, it was maybe a few businesses who said that they were closing. And then it was just this cascade of every restaurant I frequently go to said that they were closing by Friday. And it just really spoke to how the fact that again, I think this is really untenable for businesses. And that is what forced hundreds of them to close on Friday because they just wanted to call attention to the fact that this is untenable. And so, you know, this is a very local issue, but it's also becoming more of a national retail issue, which we'll get into. And this is also impacting national chains that have stores here. So one post I saw from the apparel brand Faraday. And this came just a few days ago. But there are a Southern California based apparel brand kind of like inspired by surf culture. And they said that they shut down their store in Minnesota this week to quote, protest the horrifying acts of violence committed against immigrants and non-immigrants alike. So again, this is starting to become more of a national retail issue, which we'll get into. Yeah, and maybe this is a good time to start talking about some of the responses or reactions from companies that are both based in Minnesota, but also nationally because some of it I do feel like, and I don't know about you guys, but it felt like for the last few weeks, you know, there's been this weird humming where brands are like, okay, well, we're not gonna really say anything, but then you start to read the comments and people are getting understandably very frustrated by just like the tone deafness of it all right, where it's like they're just posting as business as usual. And then you see something like what happened on the ground at Target, for example, where now you're just literally faced with an altercation where you can no longer just pretend like nothing's happening. And I know you reported on this where you spoke to actual Target employees who kind of expressed frustration to Target essentially like tiptoeing around the issue, right? And like actually one of the things that I noticed, one of the more interesting things I noticed was that they did not mention the word ice whatsoever or even the word Trump. So they're just alluding to a situation. Yeah, so we talked about how this is impacting small businesses. And I think a good place to go next is obviously Minneapolis is a big retail hub. So you have some big retail companies based here, General Mills, Best Buy and Target. And there's been a lot of attention in particular on how Target is responding to this. And I think that's for a few reasons. And if you just look at number of employees, they're the largest retail employer here. Number two, there have been some very high profile incidents in their parking lots and in their stores. So there was a video a couple weeks ago of Border Patrol agents grabbing two employees who worked on drive up or pick up at a store in Richfield, Minnesota, which is a suburb that's like 15 minutes for me. And these workers were shouting they were citizens, but Border Patrol agents were grabbing them anyways. All these onlookers started jumping in saying, what are you doing? So I think that's one of a few reasons why Target has been heavily scrutinized during this. I also will add that they have, of course, been under scrutiny over the past year because of them pulling back on some diversity, equity and inclusion initiatives. And then also they have a new CEO that's starting February 1st. So there's a lot going on at Target right now. So yes, to your point, Gabby, I spoke with some corporate target employees just about how Target has responded to them and what they would like to see Target do. And again, part of the reason why this came up is I can't emphasize enough how much the ice presence is impacting daily life. So one thing that happened is that there were ice agents in the parking ramp of Target's Brooklyn Park campus one day, which is, which is the campus where a lot of its tech workers work out of. And so again, there were ice agents in the parking ramp one day. I kind of heard conflicting things about what happened, but it was basically one of the situations where all these employees were wondering what's going on. Is it just that these ice agents are hanging out in the parking ramp before they go somewhere else? Is it that they're actively trying to get into campus? We don't know what's going on. And throughout all of this, Target has sent a couple emails to corporate employees based on Minneapolis, so one was after US citizen Renee Good was shot and killed. Target sent a reference to employees that said that referenced events in our hometown. And it was basically like, you know, we're monitoring the situation. We're prioritizing safety of employees. Things are fast changing, but like we are in close contact with local leaders. And then another one sent the following week included a link to that one did not reference ice either, but it included a link to an FAQ page related to common questions employees might have about how Target is dealing with all this ice activity. And there had been a lot of speculation because as these national media outlets like the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal reported on these high profile incidents at its rich field store, Target wasn't commenting. So there was a lot of confusion I think among employees about like, what is Target doing? And again, Target still remained pretty tight-lipped. They did tell employees that, you know, for privacy and safety and legal reasons, we can't comment on any employee's individual like, we can't comment if people are asking, you know, was this employee grabbed by ice? Target also said that, you know, there are questions about is Target partnering or working with ice? Target has said no, but because it's parking lots and the front of its stores are public areas, ice can be in there without a warrant. So that was kind of where things stood as a Friday, January 23rd, and then of course, last weekend, there was another US citizen, Alex Pretty, who was shot and killed, and that kind of led to a groundswell of statements. There was a statement put out by a bunch of high profile Minneapolis CEOs led by the Chamber of Commerce that called for a deescalation of tensions and cooperation between local state and federal leaders. And so that's kind of where we're at right now in terms of how our large Minneapolis companies with kind of a national retail presence, that's how they've responded. I want to stay on that letter for a minute because I feel like it was something that people were kind of waiting for, and then it felt like maybe a little bit of a nothing burger, right? It's unclear if all this corporate speak and kind of crisis commsified, messaging, quote, unquote deescalation of tensions. If that's really what people want to hear from, you know, heavy weights in the economy right now, like I just don't know if it felt as impactful as some people would want it to be given the, you know, the size of the outrage that a lot of people rightfully have right now. Yeah, yeah, it's a little soft as you can tell from from just reading in. I think a lot of people just kind of were like, it's a little, not only is it a little too late, but also they didn't really, yeah, like you said, Melissa, I don't feel like they really said anything because they're not point, of course, they're not going to point any fingers at anybody, but they want deescalation, yeah, it does seem like people do have to at the very least acknowledge or address it. So we saw Tim Cook of Apple send out a memo to employees, you know, saying something like the killing in Minneapolis has him heartbroken by the events and saying that this is a time for deescalation. Again, I'm not sure who that's pointed at. So I can see why customers and fans of these companies are, you know, that's not really enough, I guess, as of right now. But I am interested to hear both of your thoughts on, this is something we've been sort of monitoring the past year or so since pretty much the inauguration of Trump 2.0, which is that it was this sort of like, you know, nobody really needs to take a political stance anymore. I was like, you know, quote unquote, woke is over. I mean, not to use internet speak, but essentially just felt like retailers and CEOs did not have to speak about anything politically going on or stand up to, you know, the administration. But it does feel like this was a turning point, at least to me. So yeah, I'm curious to hear why you think that is other than the obvious, which is like obviously a horrific incident or two happened. The fact that there's been more outrage than there was even to something like tariffs, which impacted, you could argue, will you say impacted these companies even more so? I thought was really interesting. Yeah, I think there were some, I think as we were discussing and like preparing for this episode, you know, kind of one of the central questions is like, why are a lot of businesses speaking out now? And I think, again, from the Minnesota perspective, it's obvious. It's that this is impacting every single business in a multitude of ways. And you can't not speak out. I think from a national perspective, I think just the answer is that, you know, especially after this second shooting and killing of a US citizen, there were some horrific videos on social media. And it was, it was disturbing for a lot of people to watch. And like, I think just thinking of people I know personally, there was a sense of like, we can't not speak out after this. And I imagine a lot of business leaders had the same reaction. You know, of course, there's so many questions about how do you speak out? And like, so one thing I'll point out in relation to this letter from the Minnesota Chamber of Commerce that again included the signatures of more than 60 CEOs of Minnesota based companies. So our reporter Mitchell Parton, he did a story on this. He interviewed some corporate communications experts. And one of the things that they pointed out was that this letter was not very specific. It didn't mention Trump. It didn't mention ice. It referred to the recent challenges facing our state have created widespread disruption and tragic loss of life. So I think that there is now this groundswell of feeling that businesses need to speak out again because of these horrific videos on social media. But there is still a lot of debate over how brands should respond. You know, when you were talking about the impact that businesses are feeling, Ana, I was reminded of some reporting that our colleague Mitchell Parton did this week. He spoke with Mike Logan, the president and CEO of the Minneapolis Regional Chamber, who said that restaurants and retailers in the area have seen declines of overall sales of 40 to 80 percent. I mean, that's massive. And then the general strike you spoke about in the region had an economic impact that's estimated to be in the millions just from that single day. And probably tens to hundreds of millions once we look at it, you know, zoomed out over over the weeks in months of this activity. And you know, I think if you're a business owner and you're experiencing that, you kind of don't have a choice but to speak out, right? I mean, it kind of becomes a natural reaction to what you're experiencing because the forces are so out of your control. You know, in Gabby, when you were mentioning Tim Cook's statement, I was thinking about some of the backlash he's been on the receiving end of for attending a Melania Trump documentary screening the same day that Alex Prety was shot and killed. And you know, you have to wonder what that means for someone who's such an economic heavyweight like Tim Cook's legacy. You know, I mean, this is someone who could go down at the annals of business history as one of the best leaders of one of the most grossing companies of all time. And that's what he does on a day that's so dark in American history. You know, this is kind of a history we're living through here. And so when I see small businesses say, yes, we're going to close or you know, yes, we're going to donate proceeds of this that and the other thing to organizations in Minnesota, even when they're out of state. You know, I think that that tells you a lot about where a company stands. And I think that's what most of us as shoppers and people who have to live in a consumer economy want to see right now. Yeah, I think so too. I think there's been a lot of debate unfolding about, you know, a lot of these CEOs feeling like they still need to cozy up to the administration for financial business purposes, which, you know, I personally don't want to get into that. That's that's like way above my own area of expertise. But it's a really interesting dichotomy and contrast. Yes, because at the other end of the spectrum, we're also seeing some sort of smaller like medium-sized businesses who some of them do have relationships with some of these big retailers are speaking out. I wanted to just, you know, talk a little bit about some of the examples that you guys have seen recently where I've seen founders on Instagram and TikTok, you know, share donation links and talk about calling your representatives. And to me, I haven't seen that in years at this point. Yeah, that's a good point. I thought it was interesting. Yeah, yeah, it feels like, I don't know, 2020 all over again in that aspect. Yeah, I mean, a couple of brands like Coco Kind, which is a beauty brand that actually sells at Target, has been urging customers to donate and call their reps. We also saw seven Sundays cereal there. They sell a lot of bunch of retailers like Target. They're also speaking out. Any other standouts that you guys are seeing. And then, of course, we're seeing the ones that are warning that they are going to be closing their stores on January 30th, which is when the next big strike is going to be happening or is happening. Yeah, one of the brands that we've seen speaking out about this quite a bit in recent weeks is due skincare. They did some fundraising for families in Minneapolis a couple of weeks back. And then a couple days ago, they had a day where 100% of their proceeds were being donated to organizations, helping Minnesotans affected by ice operations. We're also seeing some companies say that they're going to participate in a general strike plan for January 30th, even outside of Minneapolis and Minnesota. And this is the, you know, quote unquote, ice out general strike. That means no work, no school, no shopping, shutting everything down. And I think some of the logic behind this is that, you know, we know that the administration has shown that it doesn't listen to necessarily the actions of signs of protesters, right? But that by moving an economic needle, maybe it can force some change. And I think that's where a lot of people are coming from. But, you know, in prepping for this episode, we are talking about the effect that could have. And, you know, it being something that's happening before this podcast airs. But after we're recording it, we don't really know what the effect will be. But in the past, I think these things, Stem Titans aren't at scale enough to move that needle the way the organizers hope. That said, I think there's still a net benefit for brands that do want to participate in something like this because they're communicating a lot about their values, you know, to their customers and followers in that moment, whether they agree with them or not. Yeah, I think that's a great way to put it. It's about communicating to your customers, your values and where you stand. Yeah, I mean, you mentioned Faraday earlier and they've done other posting about this and been vocal to their followers. And if you're someone who maybe hasn't thought about Faraday in a while, but you are in the market, you know, for a great new sweatshirt or something, when it's time to shop, maybe you'll consider Faraday differently. That said, if you're someone who doesn't want to see brand speak up about this or would prefer that they're not, then maybe you're not a Faraday customer anymore. And, you know, the Faraday founders are probably taking that into account when they're putting messages out like this, right? This isn't happening in a vacuum. Yeah, you know, this is a very, it's a very touch and go situation. So we'll see how businesses continue to speak up. Yeah, what I'm watching is so we're recording this on Thursday, on Friday. Again, like you said, Melissa, there was a call for a general strike. It might be one of those things where as things get closer and closer to Friday, we'll see more businesses say that they are closing. This feels like a very last minute thing to me to organize. And I'm seeing in Minnesota, some businesses participate, but not nearly as many as the number that participated in the strike last Friday. And that's for a few reasons. One Friday is one of the biggest days for a small business, especially if you're like a bar or a restaurant. I'm seeing a lot of businesses say they can't afford to close another day. But I'm also seeing some businesses say, you know, we're going to stay open on Friday, but we'll like donate two dollars from every drink to the immigrant legal center. So again, I think just like the way to think about this, it all goes back to what you said, Melissa, it's like, this is a chance to communicate to people where you stand as a business and what your values are. And as is a very touch and go situation, I think we'll see things evolve and brands are going to find different ways to keep communicating like where they stand and kind of what they're advocating for as a business. All right. Well, thank you guys so much for this discussion. I learned a lot and I'm sure the listeners learned a lot of context, everything that's going on. If there's anything else you want to add before we sign off now is your time. Yeah. So again, I feel like I have a lot to say on this matter because I am based in Minneapolis. I've been getting a lot of questions from people about what life is like in Minneapolis would encourage you to read local reporting on the subject, especially as a journalist. And if you are also curious about what life is like in Minnesota, one website I point people to is a website called standwithminnesota.com. It has testimonials from people about again, what life is like in Minnesota and a list of potential actions people can take if they're interested. Thank you for listening to this episode of the Modern Retail Podcast, a show by Digidae Media. If you haven't already, please subscribe and head to Apple Podcasts to leave us a review and a rating. If you want more from Modern Retail, you can find us at modernretail.co. You can find me, Senior Reporter Melissa Daniels on LinkedIn and Blue Sky. And you can also subscribe to our LinkedIn newsletter at the Modern Retail profile. We'll see you next week.